Pod Insights National Park After Dark The Queen of the Tetons: Remembering Grizzly 399 About this episode On October 22, 2024 a legacy ended when Grizzly 399 was hit by a car and killed. She was the most beloved bear in the world and the oldest known grizzly to produce cubs in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. She gained popularity when she strategically raised her cubs by the roadways and tolerated human interaction. In this episode we share her story, the legacy and impact she left on the conservation world, and the problems that her habituation has had and will continue to cause. Hang out until the end of the episode where we have special trail tales from listeners who had the opportunity to see her in the wild. For a full list of our sources, visit npadpodcast.com/episodesFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to this week’s partners! Soul: For 30% off your order, head to GetSoul.com and use code NPAD. IQBAR: Text PARK to 64000 to get 20% off all IQBAR products and free shipping. Prose: Use our link for a free in-depth hair consultation and 50% off your first subscription order.
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Transcript 15,360 words · 5 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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1:00 Cassandra Yahnian? The evening of October 22, 2024 marked the end of an era inside of the Grand Tetons of Wyoming. A Subaru driver along Highway 89 that winds through the Snake River Canyon of Bridger Teton National Forest tried to swerve when a massive brown appeared in front of their vehicle, but it was too late. Their car collided with a 400-pound grizzly bear, leaving the Subaru totaled and the bear dead. This wasn't just any brown bear, though. This was Grizzly 399, a known icon of the area. She was the oldest-known reproducing female grizzly in the greater Yellowstone ecosystem. Her life inspired thousands of people to visit each year in hopes of getting a glimpse of her. Photographers, biologists,
1:45 Cassandra Yahnian? tourists, and people from around the world became enthralled with her story. She was a local celebrity. But with many celebrity figures, their life isn't all the glamour and greatness it seems to be from the outside. Her story is much more complicated and intricate than just being the most beloved bear in the world. Today, we tell her story, the legacy and impact she had on the nation, and the problems that her evituation has created.
2:12 Cassandra Yahnian? Welcome to National Park After Dark.
2:35 Danielle LaRock? Wow, you really jumped on this. You weren't kidding.
2:38 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah, this is pretty recent news and as soon as it, as soon as I saw the news that Bear 399 had died, I bought a book for her and I knew that this was something that we were gonna have to cover.
2:53 Danielle LaRock? Yeah, and I'm glad you're doing it because I know of her just through news headlines and just like brief things that I've read over time. And clearly, her story is all over the place now, especially, you know, in the immediate wake, this is being recorded at the end of October. So it's really all over the place right now. So I'm glad you're covering it, and I can't wait to learn about her.
3:17 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah, I think that this is probably one of the most recent stories we've ever covered, just because this is very much ongoing. Like you said, this is fully in the news right now. There's a lot of unknowns that are happening. I mean, people are still grieving her. She's very loved all over the world, and especially in Jackson Hole, she's really big there. So there's been a lot of celebrations of life of her going on there, and it's really big news. But also, with that, I think that Grizzly 399, even though she was a celebrity, there's a lot of things about her story that aren't really publicized as much. And she's so much of a, let's go see her. She's this beautiful bear that has been known to coexist
4:00 Cassandra Yahnian? with people in such a peaceful manner and way. And you can see her up close, and she's this icon to see in the park. And so many people do go to see her because of that. And there's something really beautiful about that. And then there's also something that is also not so great about that, that I do want to talk about. So basically, for this story today, is I really want to talk about what a interesting bear she was, and how she has brought so many people together. But I also want to talk about the bad side of that, and why she has brought so many people together is because she's habituated. And she has the, she had these behaviors that were dangerous. So there's kind of a double sided coin to this and she's also very interesting because she also started a big conservation
4:45 Cassandra Yahnian? movement for bears. So this is like multifaceted, very interesting story of, of an animal that I'm excited to go into.
4:53 Danielle LaRock? Yeah, I feel like her story would not be complete without that duality and I'm excited to hear you present it to all of us.
5:01 Cassandra Yahnian? Thank you. And before we do go into this story of bear three ninety nine, because she is so beloved, and I know a lot of people who are listening are probably actually really mourning her because she was so special to a lot of people and a lot of people have a lot of memories with her or adventures that were inspired by her. So I know that this is a tough subject and a lot of people are up in arms about how she died, that she was hit by a car. It is not the way that any of us wanted to see her life end. She was almost twenty nine years old and she was getting to the end of her life anyway. It was only a matter of time before she died. But of course, the fact that she died getting hit by a car is very unexpected, not unexpected, because she did go
5:45 Cassandra Yahnian? by, she was known to raise her cubs by the highways and by the roadway systems, but it was not the ending we all wanted. But I do want to put an emphasis on this for this episode is that I'm not here to shame the person who hit and killed her. And I don't think other people should. I've seen online, a lot of people saying that this was the driver's fault. And I did in my research, I did find an article that came out where law enforcement have publicly said that it was not anything that the driver was doing. And I think that that's important because I imagine as the person who hit this bear, one, it's traumatizing to hit an animal. But also, when you find out it's the most beloved bear in the world that you just hit and killed, that I imagine that this person is having a really
6:30 Cassandra Yahnian? rough time as well. And online hate is not the way to go. So publicly, they have said that the driver wasn't speeding, they weren't texting, they weren't drinking, it wasn't anything like that. This was actually just a horrible accident. And in Wyoming, wildlife vehicle collisions account for 7,656 crashes per year. And conservationists have actually been advocating for installation of overpass wildlife crossings. So this is this larger issue that is much bigger than just this one accident. So I just want to put it out there. If you are seeing this online, please don't like, write hate to the person who, um, actually, it could have been any of us.
7:11 Danielle LaRock? Yeah.
7:12 Cassandra Yahnian? Who hit this bear.
7:13 Danielle LaRock? And the, it's interesting that you bring that up right at the top, which I think is important because we never, whether it's the story or any other, we never want to encourage anyone to add to any hate or, you know, harassment or bullying ever. But the, I had two thoughts when I first heard about her death. The first was, wow, that's so sad. And the second was, I feel awful for the person who hit her because they're about to be one of the most hated people in conservation right now. In the conservation world, I, you know, in America is a huge, uh, inflation and overstatement. I mean, a lot of people in America don't know who bear 399 is, which is weird because in our worlds, everyone knows.
7:58 Cassandra Yahnian? It's big in our world, but other people really don't know who she is. Yeah.
8:01 Danielle LaRock? But everyone who does know who she is, like that person is, I just immediately, my heart, without knowing anything else about the circumstances. This was like breaking news at this point, very little information was out. And immediately I was like, God, that's so sad. My heart hurts for the bear. And then I was like, oh no, that person is about to be crucified. And I just, yeah, so it's really important that you noted that. So.
8:25 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah. And as of today, we're recording this on Halloween, October 31st. Their name has not been released to the public and that has been intentional because of the online hate and speculation that this was something that the driver did. So as far as I know, that this person is safe away from online ridicule to them directly. But of course I'm sure they've seen it. So today, moving past that, going into today's story, I do want to talk about bear 399's full story. I want to talk about her legacy, the conservation move. That were inspired by her, the negative parts of her story and really recognizing that she was a very habituated bear and the problems that there were with that.
9:04 Cassandra Yahnian? And because I know how special she was to a lot of people, I also thought it would be really fun for this episode to make it more of an interactive episode with our audience. So on our socials, I did post that I was looking for anyone who had stories, personal stories of 399 to come forward and write to us. So if you did that, thank you. We have three trail tales, all surrounding 399 that will be put at the end of this episode.
9:34 Danielle LaRock? Fun.
9:35 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah. The first and foremost, let's get introduced to Grizzly 399. And she was in Grand Teton National Park area and the surrounding area is the Bridger Teton National Forest, which if you're unaware, this is all encompassing in Wyoming area, south of Yellowstone National Park. So Grizzly 399 was a 29 year old sow born in Pilgrim Creek area of Wyoming and was known to roam both Grand Teton National Park and Bridger Teton National Forest, which I just stated, but I wrote twice.
10:06 Danielle LaRock? We just really want you to know.
10:07 Cassandra Yahnian? We really want you to know where she is because I will say, I normally, normally for these episodes, I go heavily into the national park itself, but I didn't for this episode. I do talk about the area we're in a lot, but not specifically the national park as much. And I'll say, I was also a little nervous. I've been waiting to go to Grand Teton National Park for a story because the last one we did was when I did the Jenny Lake Rangers one, like years ago, almost four years ago now. Since we visit this park, but I was waiting for a story that could compare, I guess, because that one was such a loved episode that we did, that I was nervous to come back here and not do it justice, to be back in this park.
10:50 Cassandra Yahnian? But I thought that she deserved an episode. And with that, I barely talk about the park, but it is all within the park.
10:57 Danielle LaRock? It's a great park.
10:58 Cassandra Yahnian? It's a great park. It's one of my favorites. You should go. It's in Wyoming. It has mountains and rivers and look up And all the things. All the things. Listen to the other episode we did and I go way into the park if you're really that curious of it. But Grizzly 399 eventually became the oldest known sow in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem to give birth to cubs. And her method of parenting and living in close proximity to major roadways amongst people, along with her amount of cubs that actually survived with her, made her an icon within the park. She was born in 1996, but it wasn't until much later that the world deemed her a celebrity. A small
11:40 Cassandra Yahnian? backstory on how she got her name was that in 2001, she was captured by the interagency grizzly bear study team and was fitted with a radio collar. Now, this is a team of scientists and biologists in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem that are responsible for the long-term monitoring and research of grizzly bears in that area. She was the 399th bear to be fitted with a collar and tracked for the research, and thus she got the name Grizzly 399. So that is her scientific name. However, she has other names, and you also may have heard her referred to as Queen of the Tetons, or the Matriarch of the Tetons in that because she is the known mama bear. She first garnered attention from the public in 2006 when she
12:25 Cassandra Yahnian? gave birth to triplets in the Grand Teton National Park area. At the time, grizzlies were a rare sight in the Tetons. And while Yellowstone had a population, and seeing grizzlies there wasn't unheard of and uncommon, seeing grizzlies in the Tetons and in the Jackson Hole, Bridger, Teton area was pretty rare. So when she emerged, biologists and visitors alike were excited to see her, but they weren't just excited because there was a grizzly bear there. They were excited because she had three cubs. This was a very promising sign that grizzly bears were expanding their range in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. And along with that, grizzlies having triplets is pretty rare. While they can give birth to one to four litters,
13:08 Cassandra Yahnian? One to four litters, one to four cubs in a litter. Generally speaking, they usually have two. So to see three in an area where there wasn't a lot of grizzly activity was very exciting in 2006. It was in 2007 in which observations in her parenting style became headline news across the country. At this point, she was 11 years old, but her behavior was very out of the norm of other grizzlies. Cubs will stay with their mothers for up to two to three years. And this is a critical learning period for them because their mothers teach them how to survive. They teach them how to forage, fish and hunt. Along with that, they teach them safe areas to roam, survival skills and protective behaviors.
13:49 Cassandra Yahnian? Essentially what the mother teaches them shapes how they will behave and how they will become adults. During this period of time, it is also the mother's job to protect infant off predators from their vulnerable offspring. The most common cause of death of offspring during this time is actually caused by male grizzly bears. And we've spoken about infanticide on other episodes. And this behavior refers to when a male will kill a female offspring that they are trying to mate with. And they do this so that the mother will no longer lactate and their bodies will go back into estrus. And they can mate and have their own offspring with them. So onlookers noticed that grizzly 399 was bringing her three cubs in 2007 close to roadways to search for food.
14:32 Cassandra Yahnian? And this was very odd behavior, especially in the Grand Teton National Park area. Because if you've been to the park, you know that the roadways are pretty busy. And it's in very close proximity to people. And generally grizzly bears will avoid or be elusive to people. They don't want interactions. And to see this mama bear specifically raising her cubs next to a roadway was very interesting and very unusual. So instead of being elusive, she actually didn't seem to mind being around people at all. In fact, what a lot of people refer to as bear jams within the park is when cars will line up. You know, like one car sees a bear stops, then the other one stops because they're looking at someone.
15:15 Cassandra Yahnian? And then it like just piles up to a ton of cars. She would experience bear jams a lot and she would be surrounded by masses of people who would be taking photos of her and her cubs and she seemed largely unbothered by it. She would look, she would be weary that they were there, acknowledge that they were there, but she didn't really seem to react. She didn't run, she didn't, she didn't seem all that phased or stopped doing what she was doing, which was very odd. And biologists theorized that Grizzly 399 was going to these populated areas intentionally. And she was doing this because male grizzly bears are known to be even more elusive and would be less likely to enter the areas that she was with her cubs. So they believed what she
15:58 Cassandra Yahnian? was doing was actually a survival tactic to keep her cubs alive. This would later be proven a very successful one because overall, Grizzly 399 had 18 cubs and all but two survived to become subadults.
16:12 Danielle LaRock? Which is an astounding statistic.
16:14 Cassandra Yahnian? It is. So when you put that into numbers, into statistics, the mortality rate amongst grizzly cubs is really high with less than half of them will survive a year or more. And most of that is either due to male grizzly bears or some type of human conflict, like getting hit by a car. Once they do become adults, their chance of survival increases dramatically, but the first year, um, the risk of death is really high. So the fact that almost all of her cubs were surviving was just, that was what intrigued biologists and scientists the most was, wow, the survival tactic that she's doing is working, but
16:53 Cassandra Yahnian? at what cost? And at face value, the success of Grizzly 399 producing and keeping her cubs alive was really impressive to rebuilding the bear populations in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. Because in 1975, grizzly bears in the lower 48 were placed on the endangered species list. Uh, and that was because way back before that, I think there was, there was less than 150 in the whole park versus like where we have over a thousand now and the species is recovering and doing a lot better. But we're still On that upswing and to have this one grizzly bear that's producing all of these cubs who are
17:33 Cassandra Yahnian? going to reproduce more cubs is an exciting thought. However, as I stated at the beginning of this episode, grizzly 399 had become habituated. She was feeding and raising her cubs near major roadway systems and she was frequently interacting with people. And while, like I said, this proved to be a fantastic survival strategy, she was teaching her cubs behaviors that would later result in human wildlife conflict. And a huge reason that she was so loved was because she did allow humans to observe her and even come relatively close to her and her cubs and watch them. So onlookers would watch as she played with her cubs, lead them through the park, as she
18:12 Cassandra Yahnian? corrected their behaviors, groomed them, protected them, and did all of these motherly duties. And watching her motherly instincts in real time is part of why she was labeled the matriarch of the Tetons. But it is also why people fell in love with her. Experts say that you shouldn't anthropomorphize animals or put human emotions on their behavior, but it was really hard for visitors to do that because they're watching and seeing this mama bear protecting and loving her kids. And not only were visitors identifying with her, it made them begin to love her and also become enthralled with her. People generally associate grizzly bears with being dangerous and scary, which, to be
18:54 Cassandra Yahnian? clear, they rightfully so. But this was maybe the first glimpse into a grizzly bear's life that wasn't that. The normal, everyday people were able to observe behaviors that usually only people who are out in the field could do. And this was kind of a phenomenon that was happening in Grand Teton National Park. All these people who were wanting to get a chance to get a glimpse of a grizzly bear was not only getting a glimpse, but seeing real time behaviors and not having to go on the trails to do it. They're just driving through the park. They have this incredible opportunity to see a bear in the wild, not fenced in, not at a park, like not in a zoo, I mean, and it really garnered so much attention.
19:38 Cassandra Yahnian? And people became so excited for this opportunity. Photographers, biologists, tourists, and people from around the globe began heading to the Tetons in hopes of seeing her and to observe her and to photograph her. A lot of photographers saw this as a huge opportunity to get these amazing wildlife photos. She gained notoriety on social media. She has she has over 55,000 followers on Instagram and people from around the world started coming out to see her over the years. She became an icon in the park and even inspired conservation movements, which I'm gonna get into a little bit later. And she was largely portrayed in the media as being well adapted to human presence and avoiding conflict.
20:20 Cassandra Yahnian? So you might be surprised to learn that that's not entirely true, which I did not realize until I started researching this episode because I feel like the media has portrayed her as this incredible example of how bears can adapt to humans and live amongst them. And she's doing this fantastic job and almost like we don't have to be afraid. Or weary of bears, you know what I mean? But that's not true. And that's not true for her in particular either, because in fact, in 2007, she attacked a man inside of Grand Teton National Park and put him in the hospital.
21:00 Danielle LaRock? Okay.
21:01 Cassandra Yahnian? So I wanted to go into his story a little bit.
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21:40 Cassandra Yahnian? In June of 2007, Dennis Van Den Bosch, a school teacher, was attending a conference at Jackson Lake Lodge. And when he arrived, he was warned that there had been grizzly bear activity in the area, and some trails were closed and planned to be for a few days. One morning, while he was there, he was walking one of the dirt roads around the lodge and by the guest cabins. He was in an area that is known as Willow Flats inside of the national park, and it has these incredible views of the Tetons and is a common spot to stop for photos. But it also has a dense thicket of willow trees. Here elk are protected, and elk rear their calves in the protection of the willow shaded meadow that is here. It's a perfect place for that, which also means it's a perfect
22:24 Cassandra Yahnian? place for bears to come. So while he was walking, he saw a cow and a calf moose trot by him and then halt right next to him before moving on. But they both seemed really skittish, and to be weary of something that was nearby, but not of him. So they like walk by, they're looking really weird. They're near him, but don't care. But they care about something else. And he's thinking, this is really odd. But he keeps on with his walk. And shortly after, he saw elk cows and calves in the distance, and he became pretty nervous. Now he's like, okay, some, this is breeding grounds for bears, bear activity. He decided to turn around and head back towards the lodge, heeding the warning that there were
23:07 Cassandra Yahnian? bears in the area. And when he turned back, he encountered a cow elk alone and near the dirt road that he was on. He was close to him, which he thought was odd. And looking around, he didn't see anything. And he noted that the behavior of this elk was very unusual. It wasn't paying attention to him, which he thought was odd, since he was so close. Unknowingly, in a concealed brush just six feet away from him, grizzly 399 had killed her calf, and now her and her cubs were feeding on its carcass.
23:38 Danielle LaRock? Oh my God, so we have resource guarding and cub protection and maybe a surprise element, which is really just triple bad.
23:47 Cassandra Yahnian? Recipe for disaster. Yes, exactly. And Dennis can, Dennis is pretty nervous now. He's like, okay, something's going on. He doesn't know this is happening, but he knows there must be something going on because the animals are acting weird. So he tries to walk past the cow elk, but within seconds, he hears this harsh, guttural growl. And a moment later, a grizzly bear was charging him. He had no bear spray. He had no weapons on him. So in an attempt to stop the charge, and this grizzly bear is grizzly 399, he made himself bigger and he began waving his arms and shouting at her while he tried to back away. Grizzly 399 stopped right next to him and stared at him. And he had
24:32 Cassandra Yahnian? heard that he should never look a grizzly bear in the eye, but in that moment, he couldn't help it. He just locked eyes with her as he tried to back away. And while he's backing away, he lost his footing when his shoe hit a rock and he fell onto the ground. In a quick attempt to stand up because he didn't want to be on the ground next to this grizzly bear, he turns to stand up and he finds himself before he's fully up, face to face with grizzly 399. So in that moment, he realizes he cannot stand up and he dives onto the ground, instinctually putting his arms over his head to block his head. He played dead
25:14 Cassandra Yahnian? as she bit down into his back and then tore into his butt. He screamed at first, but then quickly stopped in attempts to continue to play dead and in hopes that she would back off. After a moment, she stopped and it was silent, but she rested a paw on top of him. He slowly opened his eyes to see what was going on, but made sure not to move. And when he opened them, he saw her still staring right at him, but now her three cubs were peeking up from behind her, also looking at him.
25:47 Danielle LaRock? This is terrifying. Okay, so he's face down on the ground, protecting his head?
25:52 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah.
25:54 Danielle LaRock? And she's just kind of like,
25:55 Cassandra Yahnian? like paw on top and his, it sounds like his head was turned to the side a little bit. So he was able to open his eyes and see her.
26:03 Danielle LaRock? Okay, I got that. Okay, that was kind of my, what I wanted some clarification on.
26:08 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah.
26:09 Danielle LaRock? Okay.
26:09 Cassandra Yahnian? So he sees all them just staring at him and he's at this point, he's like, okay, this attack's gonna continue. And he's convinced that that's gonna happen. And then he suddenly hears a human voice screaming. That is not him. A car was happening to drive by and had stopped to take photos of the bears. When she saw that there was a grizzly bear and her cubs in the road on something. And she stopped to take photos. And then when she saw that they were on top of a person, she started screaming.
26:40 Danielle LaRock? What a, what a scene to come upon.
26:45 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah. That is so scary. And luckily she did scream and it spooked Grizzly 399 and her cubs. And they took off and saved him from whatever else was about to happen, which was maybe a further attack. Who knows? But definitely potentially. And quickly Rangers were called and an ambulance was brought in. And Dennis was rushed to a nearby hospital. When Rangers called him later, he was doing okay. And they expected him to make a full recovery. He had to have some stitches and I think he had to have some surgery. But he was okay. They asked him his opinion on what he thought should be done with Grizzly 399. And he actually advocated for the bear's safety. He said, you know, I knew there was bear activity.
27:30 Cassandra Yahnian? I was walking out there. I got in her bubble. Essentially, she was feeding. At the time I walked by, it is not her fault at all. This was, this was all me. This was my fault. And the Rangers agreed. They agreed that this was a defensive attack, that they were resource guarding, that it was also a surprise that happened and that this was all normal behavior for a bear. And they weren't going to punish that behavior. So the decision was made that Grizzly 399 would not be removed from the population, would not be euthanized, and that she was allowed to continue to live in the park. But a story that I never knew.
28:08 Danielle LaRock? I had never heard of that one either.
28:10 Cassandra Yahnian? It did make headlines back in 2007 and I found old newspaper articles about it. But that's a long time ago now. I think people. Forgive and forget and
28:21 Danielle LaRock? Yeah.
28:21 Cassandra Yahnian? Uh, just like they love her so much and they wanted to continue to be able to see her too. And at this point, at the grizzly attack was the beginning of when people were starting to pay attention to her. She didn't have the fame and noriety, notoriety that she has now.
28:37 Danielle LaRock? Mm hmm.
28:38 Cassandra Yahnian? So the years go by and grizzly 399 continued to raise cubs along the roadside, inspiring spectators from around the world to see her. And at this point, over the next few years, she does become one of the most famous bears in the world. Some people even dedicated huge amounts of their lives to seeing her. Most famously would be the professional photographer and conservationist, Tom Mangelson. In the early 1970s, he began selling images of birds in flight and as popularity and his images grew, he opened his first photography gallery in Jackson, Wyoming. Now today, he has over 13 galleries across the country and is credited for the most famous wildlife photograph in the world. Can you guess which one that is?
29:21 Danielle LaRock? What, can you give me a guess of like where it is set? You don't have to tell me the animal, but.
29:26 Cassandra Yahnian? You'll know as soon as I tell you where it is.
29:28 Danielle LaRock? I don't know.
29:29 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah. I mean, you'll know the animal, I guess. It's in Cap.
29:35 Danielle LaRock? Will I? It's in what?
29:38 Cassandra Yahnian? It's in Cat Mine National Park.
29:41 Danielle LaRock? Oh, is it, um, the grizzlies feeding on the fish?
29:45 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah. So it's specifically a photo that he titled Catch of the Day and it's a, you've definitely seen this photo.
29:53 Danielle LaRock? And it's like midair.
29:54 Cassandra Yahnian? Midair. Yep. That's exactly one where there's a sockeye salmon leaping midair into this grizzly's mouth at the falls. Yeah.
30:02 Danielle LaRock? Okay. I, for some reason, the first time, the, when, my first thought was the picture of the polar bear like curled up and sleeping on this little iceberg.
30:14 Cassandra Yahnian? Ah, that one's so sad.
30:16 Danielle LaRock? I know. That's, but that's, I don't know. And what was it, the most famous picture, wildlife picture in the world?
30:24 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah, this is the most famous wildlife photograph in the world.
30:27 Danielle LaRock? Okay.
30:27 Cassandra Yahnian? So that's what he is known for, but he's also very widely known for his photographs of Grizzly 399. So he first saw Grizzly 399 in 2006 when she arrived in the park. He has lived in Jackson Hole for the past 40 years and had been following her movements for the past 18 years. So the amount of dedication that this man has put into her is actually pretty astounding and incredible when you look at the numbers. So each year, every single year for the past 18 years, he spends 150 days per year documenting and following her, trying to see her. Um, I shouldn't say following her because he wasn't like stalking her, but he would try and see her 150 days out of the year.
31:12 Cassandra Yahnian? From when she emerged from hibernation, all the way to when she went back into hibernation in the winter. He spent the entire season following her movements. Now, if you are to Google Grizzly 399, his photographs are probably going to be the first to come up. He has some of the most widely known photographs of her and I mean, his photographs are beautiful. They're really incredible. Actually, for this episode, I got, I have this book, I guess if this is on YouTube, people can see. So I got, this is a book that he collaborated on. It's called Grizzly 399, The World's Most Famous Mother Bear. And he did the photography in it. And then also with this book, he's collaborated with Todd Wilkinson and Anderson Cooper.
31:58 Cassandra Yahnian? And the cover of this is one of his famous photos of Grizzly 399 and her four cubs, which her four cubs she had. Uh, more recently, a couple of years ago. And, uh, the whole book is a story of his interactions with them, not face-to-face interactions. He was respectful, but his interactions over the years, observing them, his photographs, and also the conservation movements and stuff around her. So it's very, very interesting and. It's a beautiful like coffee table style book, but he's also did a PBS documentary called The Queen of the Tetons where they actually follow him and you can see the movements of
32:43 Cassandra Yahnian? Grizzly 399. You can watch and learn about her story on that too, which was another resource I used for this episode. So if you are to Google her or look her up, his stuff comes up pretty much immediately. So he followed her story. He watched her raise her cubs and each spring anxiously waited to see if she would survive the winter as she aged. She became a staple in his life and by his own words, so much so that he began to think of her as family. And he wasn't alone. Visitors, biologists and locals alike gravitated to her, watching her navigate in a landscape that is increasingly filled with people and
33:23 Cassandra Yahnian? not just surviving, but what looked to be thriving. And it was very exciting for people. People were observing her personality and what a loving mother she was to her cubs. And people really, really felt like she was this special, special bear. And because of this, she got special treatment. So in situations where other grizzlies would have been euthanized or relocated, she was given a pass. When she entered the town of Jackson, Wyoming and was disrupting people and getting into their garbages and wandering through their yards, she and her cubs were given priority treatment. Instead of seeing these behaviors breeding
34:03 Cassandra Yahnian? the potential for dangerous situations for grizzly human conflict, like would have been done with other grizzlies, she was treated very differently. When she entered the town, she was actually given a police escort out where they followed her and led her from the neighborhoods, which you don't see.
34:21 Danielle LaRock? You don't see that often. That's for sure.
34:25 Cassandra Yahnian? No. So they were seeing these.
34:29 Cassandra Yahnian? These behaviors that were concerning with other grizzlies when other grizzlies have and continue to be euthanized for that exact same behavior because they become habituated, they're associating people with food, they're getting into neighborhoods, and it does become dangerous. And while this seems like for her, it was a really happy solution because they were let her out of the park, she lived another day, continued raising her cubs, her cubs were okay. It actually was helping a problem that was happening with her and her cubs. So because these, like I said at the beginning of this episode, when she is becoming more and more
35:11 Cassandra Yahnian? habituated, where she's going into these towns, where she's raiding garbages, where she's walking along the roadways, she is giving all of these behaviors to her cubs. She's teaching that, and it's actually creating a generation of grizzly bears who are going to be doing the same thing. So while it seems like this was a happy ending, leading her out of Jackson Hole, it actually was indicating that there would be more signs of grizzly human conflict. And similarly to her getting preferential treatment with police escorts, park rangers in the national parks spent a lot of time controlling and monitoring the interactions between her and visitors to the park. She was commonly in areas where very large groups of people were
35:56 Cassandra Yahnian? there, which created the potential for more dangerous interactions. It's also important to note that while Grizzly 399's strategy to keep her cubs alive was a high success, her cubs were becoming more habituated as well. While I said before that only two of her cubs didn't reach sub-adulthood, more than half of them have been involved with grizzly human conflict. It's important to note, none of them have mauled or attacked a person as of yet, although I don't think that's something that people aren't expecting not to be a possibility. However, several have had to be euthanized because of dangerous behavior, and some of that behavior has been going into town, like she had done.
36:38 Cassandra Yahnian? She raised them to live along the roadways, which many have continued to do and in result have died from getting hit by cars. And the ones who are alive and habituated have gone on to have their own cubs, who they are now teaching these behaviors to. And now biologists and rangers and law enforcement in the area are now starting to see that those traits that grizzly 399 and behaviors, she has passed down to not just her cubs, but her like grand cubs.
37:08 Danielle LaRock? Yeah.
37:08 Cassandra Yahnian? Essentially.
37:09 Danielle LaRock? Yeah, a, a big problem if they start, you know, just because they're going to pass it on. If it's successful, it's a, if it's a behavior that's proving successful, either in garnering resources or affording them protection from other interactions with, or negative interactions with other bears and things like that. Like if there is a positive that comes from that type of behavior, they're going to keep doing it. And if they breed and rear cubs of their own, it's just, yeah, like, why not teach something that's a success for that bear to their offspring? It's just the way it goes. Yeah. So.
37:49 Cassandra Yahnian? Exactly. And it's, it's creating a lot of question, question marks of what the future is going to look like. Because while at first, her having all these cubs and it being so successful was this really positive sign that the grizzly population was going to come back. And they're having all these new cubs and offspring that are happening. If they're dying and being euthanized, then that kind of negates the whole, the whole promising side of the upswing of the population. So while this is very concerning, and something that is going to be a behavior and activity within the park that we're going to be monitoring, not me personally, but them, they will be
38:29 Cassandra Yahnian? monitoring for a long, someone else. I'm not a wildlife biologist, but someone else will be monitoring for years from now, even after grizzly 399's death.
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40:08 Cassandra Yahnian? It is important to note that something else was happening also because of Grizzly 399. Her presence in the park was bringing the interest in grizzly conservation to unprecedented levels. For years, state and federal natural resource agencies, along with politicians, have been arguing that grizzlies have recovered from their endangered species status and that their protection should be moved from a federal level to a state level, meaning that states can decide when and how many can be hunted for sport, or if and how they're conserved. While experts agree that they have made a remarkable recovery and anticipate that the numbers of grizzlies will continue to grow, they have huge reservations about
40:52 Cassandra Yahnian? Listing them first, the population of grizzlies in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem lack genetic diversity. Experts have been waiting and hoping that the range between the grizzlies in Glacier National Park and the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem will merge into one and those bears will begin mating to be to create a more diverse gene pool. But that has yet to happen. And as of right now, there's no signs that that's going to happen anytime soon.
41:20 Danielle LaRock? I think, and I don't know if this is something that you're going to cover in this portion, but I think the biggest thing that wildlife biologists and conservationists are aware of, but I think the just general population is not, is we hear a lot of times about certain areas being protected and kind of like a safe haven for various different species. And that's so wonderful and clearly needed. But what's equally as important for this exact reason, this genetic diversity opportunity is wildlife corridors. So it's great if you have pockets of protected areas for the grizzly, but if they can't move between those pockets
42:03 Danielle LaRock? of protected space, that genetic diversity is not going to, it's not going to happen because they're just isolated populations and they're kind of like little islands in and of themselves. And I think that the different strips of land and wildlife corridors that could connect those places are just as important as the spaces themselves. But we don't often think about that because you think of like these big parks and these big nature reserves, and that's all great and well and good and necessary. But if the animals can't move freely between them, I mean, we have another problem altogether.
42:40 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah. Yeah. And that's such a good point. And it is something that I do dive into a little bit further into the episode. But part of that, like you're saying, is, for example, if you look at Grand Teton National Park, if the bears are inside of the boundaries of Grand Teton National Park, they are protected, without a doubt, protected, they are safe there. However, Grand Teton National Park doesn't have Fences, you know, they, these bears don't know that if they cross a certain line, they're no longer protected. Because for example, when they head across that boundary and they go into Bridger Teton National Forest, they're completely at risk if this, if they are delisted. And that is a matter of depending where they are, this whole ecosystem is one that most of these bears are roaming
43:25 Cassandra Yahnian? and they're not just staying specifically in the park. That's a matter of a mile or two and they're go from full protections to none. And it's a, it's a very scary thought because not only with what you're saying, it doesn't afford them the opportunity to go to these other places and diversify the genetic pool, gene pool. But it also can hinder the progress in the population growth that has happened. Because if there's just this small pocket of the country where they're protected and nowhere else, how do you keep them in growing numbers if they're allowed to be hunted?
44:04 Danielle LaRock? Yeah, and we talked a lot about this, I think, I recall in my Wolf 06 story that we did years ago as well, because Wolf 06 was drawn out of the park and killed. And that is, the addition of buffer zones around national parks are also something that is talked a lot about for this exact reason, like, you know, animals have no idea the second they step over this invisible boundary. So the talk of putting additional buffer zones around already protected areas is something that's talked about a lot. And I don't know what the status is on various parks and a lot of them are out west here because there are species inside that need that buffer zone, right?
44:48 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah.
44:48 Danielle LaRock? Um, so I'm just so interested to see, I'll just let you talk because I think I'm going to jump ahead.
44:56 Cassandra Yahnian? I think what I'm about to go into is maybe the direction that you're heading into. So we'll talk about this too, because I think you'll definitely have things to say about this. So their first concern is what you were saying, having corridors and being able to diversify.
45:13 Cassandra Yahnian? Their DNA and their genetics. The second huge concern that they have and a huge argument that they have is that they don't trust, they don't believe that the state can be trusted to safeguard large predators. And they use wolves as a major example of this. So for example, eighty-five percent of Wyoming allows the killing of wolves three hundred and sixty-five days a year, twenty-four hours a day, without any control numbers, anything like that. And in our history, animals that have been listed on the Endangered Species Act and then delisted after they recover and being taken off have never been massacred to the extreme that wolves have been. And they worry that delisting grizzlies will garner the same results because they have
45:58 Cassandra Yahnian? similar, they're very similar in concerns for the public where they can get into livestock. They get onto people's property. They can be considered a nuisance animal and they are very concerned that if they delist them, that the exact same thing that is happening to wolves as we speak is going to happen to grizzly bears.
46:16 Danielle LaRock? Yeah, and the added, just to add to that list, they're an animal similar to wolves that people are afraid of. There's a public safety element that, you know, people have, whether it's founded or not, I mean, don't get me started on wolves. But, you know, they're, they're a big predator. They're scary, you know? And I think that adds fuel to the fire of people wanting to hunt them if the opportunity is presented. There's always going to be some level of poaching for any animal around the world. That's just how it is. Whether or not it's legal to kill an animal doesn't matter to some people. So there will always have that kind of in the mix as well.
46:56 Danielle LaRock? But you're right, as soon as it's handed over to the states, I mean, I feel like wolves, using wolves as an example, you know, it's like you made all of these strides forward after almost a century, you know, a lot of different, I'm thinking of the wolf reintroduction in the nineties, the two, actually. And it's like all of the decades of work that so many people put into recovering the species. And reintroducing after a near century of extirpation, like, you know, from the lower forty eight, and they have all this great, all these great strides being made. And then as soon as
47:36 Danielle LaRock? they're, and it's debated whether or not they were actually considered recovered. If you, if you ask one person versus another, you're going to get two answers. A lot of
47:47 Cassandra Yahnian? Which is the same with the grizzlies as of right now. Yeah.
47:50 Danielle LaRock? Yeah, a lot of the scientific community is like, uh, no, the, these numbers are not, do not justify them being delisted and their management handed over to the states. But, you know, there's a lot of politics involved and sometimes they don't really care about that number. And they're like, oh, it's basically in layman's terms, it's good enough. We're gonna federally delist them and hand them back over to the states. And then just to see the steps taken backwards of all of the hard work that was put in, and not to mention the millions and millions of dollars that goes into recovering a species to that extent. And then it's like, it's kind of just like, you know, two steps forward, four steps back type of thing. And it's just
48:32 Cassandra Yahnian? Then you're back at square one and you essentially have to re-enter the fight and re-list them and re, like, it's everything. If you don't do it properly, the first time, you have to redo everything, assuming you can even get to that point, because starting the protection of species is already a struggle. So to lose that protection and then have to regain it again, because it's not properly managed, is very disheartening to have to think about and is something that we're actively seeing for grizzly bears right now. It's an active argument that is going on with grizzlies.
49:05 Danielle LaRock? Yeah, well, I hope that we're not going to see the same exact thing happen with grizzlies as we have seen with wolves. And honestly, it's hard to keep up. It is so hard to keep up between the federal level and the state level. And then once it's at the state level, what state is doing what? And with wolves in particular, like, there is so many times they're flipping and flopping on different protected, not protected. Kind of protected. They're protected here, but not there. It's just, it's really difficult to keep up with. And I, I don't think that the Grizzlies will, if they're found in the same position, I don't think they would be as hated
49:49 Danielle LaRock? as wolves are. Like I, I do agree that they're going to be in a, in a tough situation because of the things you've outlined. And I think that if protection is afforded to states or the decision and states do allow hunting, people will line up for that for sure. But I don't think they're going to be as like full of like
50:09 Cassandra Yahnian? Gung ho.
50:10 Danielle LaRock? Yeah, gung ho. But we'll see. I mean, I hope we don't have to find out.
50:15 Cassandra Yahnian? Well, I do have some numbers for that specific worry, actually.
50:19 Danielle LaRock? Oh, okay. Yeah, please.
50:21 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah.
50:29 Cassandra Yahnian? So one thing that has been really interesting about the grizzly conservation efforts is now that Grizzly 399 has come into the mix, she has actually garnered so much attention that people, the public had, there's been a public outcry for the conservation of grizzlies because of their love for her. People are more interested in them. People are, even though we say like, you shouldn't give animals human emotions, people are seeing her as a person. People are seeing her as something to be, to be beloved and treasured. And it created, it's created this atmosphere where there's been more of a, more of a public
51:08 Cassandra Yahnian? want to protect grizzly bears. But despite their public concern and also all of these other concerns that experts are arguing with the lack of genetic diversity and the worry with the state. In 2017, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service officials actually did de-list grizzlies outside of Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks and announced that they were allowing, they were going to be allowing hunting in Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho. On May 23rd, 2019. In eighteen, a wildlife commission voted unanimously on the approval of a grizzly bear
51:48 Cassandra Yahnian? hunt that would allow the killing of up to twenty-two bears. And if this were to go through, this would have been the first hunt in over forty years. When it was announced, grizzly three ninety-nine actually had the biggest target on her back. She was considered to be the most famous bear in the world, and therefore, she was considered the biggest trophy for a hunter to get. So when this was announced, hunters came out of the woodwork saying, grizzly three ninety-nine, I'm coming for you. And while she-
52:16 Danielle LaRock? Okay, yeah, I'll just keep my mouth shut, but-
52:20 Cassandra Yahnian? We know-
52:20 Danielle LaRock? I've already rambled enough, but, holy shit.
52:25 Cassandra Yahnian? So while she, like I said before, while she tends to hang out in the national park and would be safe there, she dens in the national forest, or dended, I should say, because we do know that she passed, but at this time, she dended in the national forest, and whenever she would enter there or den there with her cubs, she would have no protection. But when this was announced, people were excited, and over seven thousand people applied for a grizzly tag in the lottery system, and that if they won, they would be issued, they would have to pay six hundred dollars for a license, and then they would have ten days to go out and hunt. And a lot of people wanted to use those ten days to get grizzly three ninety-nine. And I'll say she had cubs at
53:07 Cassandra Yahnian? the time, too, so it's messed up. But with this, like I said before, people love grizzly three ninety-nine, and conservationists, hunters even, and the public alike, were outraged at this announcement. The threat towards grizzlies, and specifically, three ninety-nine, sparked a movement that was called Shoot 'Em With A Camera, Not A Gun. And this movement was spearheaded by five local women to Jackson Hole. And this idea was to get anyone who was not interested in hunting grizzlies for trophies or at all, to enter the lottery and to take up space. And the thought with this was that they would get randomly chosen in this lottery, and they would buy up these licenses to stop other hunters.
53:52 Cassandra Yahnian? From being to stop other hunters from coming in and even hunters were joining in on this too. There were hunters who came in and said, this isn't right. I want to hunt, but I'm not trophy hunting a grizzly. I think that's wrong. So there were a lot of people from there was just the public conservationists, biologists, hunters, everyone were coming together in this movement that these five women started. And a famous conservationist like Jane Goodall and Cynthia Moss entered their names into the lottery. Many of the public followed by example and added their names as well, with no intention of hunting the grizzlies, obviously. And by a coincidence, which we don't believe in, or just a stroke of faith, photographer Tom Mangleson name was drawn and he bought a license,
54:35 Cassandra Yahnian? vowing to go into the park and only take photographs while he was there.
54:39 Danielle LaRock? Wow. I got a little chill on that one. Yeah.
54:43 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah. With this movement, nearly 40,000 people spoke out against the plan to hunt in Wyoming. And actually, when I was reading the statistics, Idaho decided to forego the hunt in in general. And I think Montana agreed that they could hunt one grizzly bear, like one specific one. But in September of 2018, a federal judge overturned the decision to delist grizzlies in that region and actually deemed that it was illegal to delist them in general, which put a halt to this hunting plan, which was a huge win for conservationists, was a huge win for the public, was a huge win for everyone who loved Grizzly 399. So this was exciting and it did halt Wyoming's plans for the hunt, but it has not stopped entirely.
55:28 Cassandra Yahnian? The state of Wyoming and Montana.
55:31 Danielle LaRock? Montana.
55:32 Cassandra Yahnian? Montana.
55:35 Cassandra Yahnian? God, I'm talking for too long. The state of Wyoming and Montana has continued to fight for the delisting of the bears and argue that the federal government has no long-term management plan for their recovery and a tentative plan to delist them or not has not been announced and they are waiting for a decision to be made. The governor of Wyoming was quoted saying, first and foremost, grizzly bears in the greater Yellowstone ecosystem. Never should have been put back on the endangered species list. Populations in the GYE have reached recovery goals multiple times over in the last 40 years. Being successfully delisted twice, yet they remain protected under the ESA
56:16 Cassandra Yahnian? and under the management of the US Fish and Wildlife Service due to litigation. Wyoming is demanding a decision and a response of whether or not they'll be delisted and if they're not being delisted, a tentative plan on their recovery. And they want this response by today of this recording, October 31st, 2024.
56:37 Danielle LaRock? Oh.
56:39 Cassandra Yahnian? Which is literally while we're recording this episode. So I imagine by the time this comes out, there will potentially be more updates on this. But as of right now, this is an argument that is ongoing. And there is a potential of grizzlies being delisted very shortly unless there's a plan put in place federally.
56:57 Danielle LaRock? Okay, it's a lot of pressure. All of a sudden, I feel.
57:01 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah.
57:02 Danielle LaRock? I didn't feel it a minute ago.
57:05 Cassandra Yahnian? Got eight hours till the end of today. And now with the recent death of Grizzly 399, bear conservationists and the public are really worried about the protections of the future. Now, right now, the public and people like Tom Mankelson are mourning her death. And headlines like "The Mother We Shared: Reflections of the Life of Bear 399" and headlines like "Animal Lovers Mourn the Death of Grizzly 399" have been filling the media. A flood of support and remembrance of her has been posted from people who love her on social media. I mean, it's everywhere, people posting photos, videos, TikToks of their experiences with her. Photographers posting their best photos of her and remembering her life and what she has meant to them.
57:48 Cassandra Yahnian? For a lot of people, it inspired adventures into the park. For a lot of people, it was a journey of finding themselves within seeing wildlife. She was so much more to people than just this wildlife celebrity. And she connected a lot of people to nature in ways that they hadn't expected. And in turn, created this conservation movement for grizzlies, which again is something that. We have a fight for that is happening now. In a quote from wildfile.com, a person was quoted saying, "I often explain to people, it's not about who she is, it's about what she's taught us about her species and ourselves." Grizzly 399 embodied resilience, adaptability, and tolerance throughout her life.
58:32 Cassandra Yahnian? She taught me the importance of resilience, how to bounce back quickly in times of hardship or struggle. She's inspired thousands to adventure to the park, made bear advocates out of the most unsuspecting people, and inspired journalists and photographers to dedicate their careers to her. Her death is the end of a legacy inside the park, and what will come in the wake of her death is yet to be determined. From bear conservation to the habituation of her offspring that are now inside the park, there are so many question marks left unknown of what is to come. And I know that there are a lot of people listening who loved her and felt a connection to her. And I know she is deeply personal to many people.
59:12 Cassandra Yahnian? So in honor of that, I wanted to add your, as the listeners, personal stories to this episode. So like I mentioned at the beginning of this episode, I asked on social media if any of you had stories of her, and three of you did. So I have a few Grizzly 399 trail tales for you all.
59:30 Danielle LaRock? Yay. And well, thank you for, before we move on to people's personal experiences, that was great. I mean, you know, I love nothing more than wildlife conservation stories, and that was the true embodiment of it. And it is, it's as every single episode that has that theme, it's so multifaceted, and it's so complicated. There is no, she was beloved and did no wrong, and it's just a tragedy through and through. Like, there are nuances to her story. And- A lot of people are unaware of that, especially if you're not like super into wildlife biology.
1:00:12 Danielle LaRock? Like you don't know that her raising her cubs by the roadway was a potential issue. Like you're like, oh, you buy the roadway, you know, like
1:00:21 Cassandra Yahnian? Like, oh, I get to see her. She's close. Like, this is her wild habitat. A road happens to be here, so I can. Yeah, I think that there's something to be said about, you know, I think there are dangerous things about making a bear a celebrity. Like, for example,
1:00:36 Danielle LaRock? Or any animal celebrity.
1:00:37 Cassandra Yahnian? Or any animal, a celebrity, but for example, for her, I mean, she was exhibiting dangerous behaviors that were overlooked because she was loved. And now the consequences of that, we don't know, but, or we're starting to see, but we don't know the full extent of where that's going to head. But on the other end of that, she inspired so many people and she, part of what is going to make conservation continue to happen? And how we are going to be successful in saving species and, and really any type of environmental aspect of the world is making people care. And that is something that she did. So there's, there's bad parts of her story.
1:01:16 Cassandra Yahnian? And there's parts that you can't not, you can't look away from the impacts that she had on everyone is something that I think will be felt for generations. And she is a bear that has left, left a legacy in the park and that won't change. It's just, um, what happens from here because of it.
1:01:36 Danielle LaRock? Yeah, it's just like, it's so interesting because she inadvertently did what so many different zoos are trying to do. You know, zoos have animals that serve as ambassadors to their species in hopes that by people coming to see them and learning about them, that they will want to care for their wild counterparts. And she became this like ambassador animal for grizzlies. And, um, no one put her in that role intentionally and she just kind of became it and.
1:02:10 Danielle LaRock? She is an ambassador to grizzlies, whether or not, you know,
1:02:14 Cassandra Yahnian? That was the intention or not?
1:02:16 Danielle LaRock? Yeah. Okay, before we get to the trail tales, I have one book recommendation.
1:02:20 Cassandra Yahnian? Okay.
1:02:21 Danielle LaRock? That goes along-
1:02:21 Cassandra Yahnian? I do have a little end point where we can talk about recommendations and stuff to you. And I have a little end follow up after the trail tales as well.
1:02:29 Danielle LaRock? Okay.
1:02:29 Cassandra Yahnian? But I think right now is a great spot for your book, if you would like to add it.
1:02:32 Danielle LaRock? Are you sure? Cause I can hold it.
1:02:34 Cassandra Yahnian? No, tell us.
1:02:35 Danielle LaRock? Okay, so the book, I have had this on my shelf actually for a really long time. So the book is titled The Carnivore Way: Coexisting with and Conserving North America's Predators. And it's by Christina Eisenberg. And it is going kind of back to what we were discussing with wildlife corridors and the importance and things like that. It's basically, it is broken into sections by animals. So there's wolves, wolverines, jaguars, grizzlies, like all of like these iconic predators that are found in North America. And it just goes into the importance of giving them these spaces to roam and how vital it is for the longevity of their species.
1:03:20 Danielle LaRock? So yeah, if you're interested in that specifically, that's a really good one.
1:03:25 Cassandra Yahnian? Add it to the good reads.
1:03:26 Danielle LaRock? Yep. Okay, trail tales, I want to hear them.
1:03:29 Cassandra Yahnian? Trail tales in a normal episode. This is the first time this has happened. Okay, so we have three trail tales. Danielle has agreed to read one of them. So it's not my voice for the next 30 more minutes as we-
1:03:43 Danielle LaRock? Okay, people love your voice. You, remember people are like, Cassie could record, or you should record a, um,
1:03:52 Cassandra Yahnian? Yoga.
1:03:52 Danielle LaRock? Meditation.
1:03:53 Cassandra Yahnian? Meditation.
1:03:54 Danielle LaRock? It's just like, it's like so, I can't do it. I have a harsh, shrill voice.
1:04:00 Cassandra Yahnian? Shrill.
1:04:03 Danielle LaRock? I don't know, not maybe shrill, but
1:04:05 Cassandra Yahnian? You do not have a harsh shrill. Oh, okay. Well, my first trail tale is titled Grizzly 399 and a saint of a husband. I've been wanting to write a trail tale for a while, but never had one, but now it's my time. I love your show. Like everyone, Night of the Grizzlies is my favorite episode. My name is Rebecca and my husband's name is Steve, and yes, you can use our names. For my husband's and I's honeymoon, we went to Yellowstone and in the Grand Tetons. We started in Yellowstone and it was my first time there, which was amazing. We got to see the wolves in Lamar Valley and on our journey, I was telling him about Grizzly 399 and how I wanted to see her. He said, like, it's a bear big deal.
1:04:45 Cassandra Yahnian? So we made our way down to the Tetons and not very far into the park, we saw a bunch of cars on the side of the road. So naturally we stopped to see what the fuss was about. We get out and talk to people and we saw two grizzlies and I asked, was that her? One of the other bystanders said, no, it's not 399. Then a few minutes later, started running to their cars and someone said they saw 399 down the road. So we watched the grizzlies there for a minute, then got in our car and drove down the road. We saw about 30 people with lawn chairs waiting in the opening on the side of the road. So my saint of a husband patiently waited with me as I talked to a complete stranger about 399. My husband waited with me for two hours. Like most men, patient isn't his thing.
1:05:30 Cassandra Yahnian? We saw nothing, zero trace of her. So we decided to go up the road to Colter Bay Visitor Center to go to the bathroom. It turned out to be closed, but we didn't know that at the time. So we went back south and as we were pulling up, we saw the same people stopped along the road. We stopped again and they said they hadn't seen anything. No joke, the people with chairs just left their chairs on the side of the road, got in their cars and left. It reminded me of Twister when everyone caravan'd along. We decided to follow them because after this long, what's a few more minutes? We got a couple of miles up the road and there's probably close to 75 to 100 people there. We stopped and waited 20 minutes and nothing. I had given up at this point. We only had time to be in the Tetons for a few days and there was more to see.
1:06:14 Cassandra Yahnian? So we pulled away and that's the end of my trail tale. Not as
1:06:19 Danielle LaRock? Okay, I was like, wait a second, why are we reading this?
1:06:22 Cassandra Yahnian? Do that.
1:06:24 Cassandra Yahnian? As we were driving away, we saw a sow and her cub swimming in a pond a little bit up the road. And I told my husband, I bet that's her 399. So I drove a little bit more and turned around with my husband's disapproval and drove by. We saw nothing again, so drove past the horde of people and turned around. Then we stopped because there was another line of cars. A park ranger was yelling at someone to get back in their car because they were outside of their car close to bears. The best part of the story to me is the horde of people that were looking on the side of the road. And she had crossed the road, so people were looking the wrong direction. The ranger never said anything over the radio as he didn't want to draw attention to where she was.
1:07:06 Cassandra Yahnian? Out of the woods, she came and there was 399 walking past our car. Me being myself, I asked the volunteer park ranger, is that her? He said, yes, that's her. So patience prevailed and after probably four hours of waiting all together, I saw her. I remained calm when I saw her, but after pulling away and admiring the beauty of the Tetons around us, I screamed in excitement to my husband that we had seen her. It honestly was the perfect place, the perfect time to get as close as we did. I applaud the rangers in that specific area for dealing with the crazy people who wanted to see her. I apologize for the length of the story. As always, enjoy the view, but watch your back and have patience in national parks.
1:07:47 Danielle LaRock? Patience is a virtue.
1:07:49 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah.
1:07:50 Danielle LaRock? I always say.
1:07:50 Cassandra Yahnian? And I think that that's a great example story of how many people were really flocking to see her and that how habituated she was to people to have a hundred people sitting around and she would just accept that and and rangers had to mitigate that situation. But it's cool that you did get to see her. Of course, now we know that that is a more special experience because she's no longer here.
1:08:15 Danielle LaRock? Yeah, yeah.
1:08:17 Danielle LaRock? All right, I have mine. It's titled Grizzly 399 Story. Hey you lovely ladies, longtime listener, first story submission. I want to start out by saying how much I love the pod. The way you tell stories is captivating and the banter between y'all makes me feel like I'm just hanging out with some of my girlfriends. All right, on to my story. My husband and I took our first National Park trip together in May of 2021. Thanks to COVID, we decided an outdoors trip would be the best. I quickly planned a trip to Yellowstone and Grand Tetons on two weeks' notice. Overall, the trip was amazing. We spent the first four days in Yellowstone, seeing the iconic sights and spending a lot of time on the trails. We saw many grizzlies, black bears, and other wildlife that are a staple in the park.
1:09:01 Danielle LaRock? We were even lucky enough to observe a grizzly on one of the trails. We were the only people at that spot on the trail, and being in the presence of such a powerful animal in its natural habitat is something I truly will never forget. We spent our last two days of the trip in Grand Teton National Park. After four activity-filled days in Yellowstone, I was physically exhausted. I told my husband there would be no long hikes, that I hardly wanted to get out of the car. We spent most of our first day in the Tetons, driving around and seeing the easy-to-access sites, such as Moore Monroe, Jenny Lake Lakeshore, Jackson Lake Dam, etc. We were driving around the Signal Mountain area when we came across an immense amount of cars stopped on the side of the road and park employees directing traffic.
1:09:45 Danielle LaRock? I later learned what we were experiencing is called a bear jam. That's when I saw 399 and her set of quads. Being a novice in the outdoors and the National Park world, I had no idea I had the honor of seeing such a famous bear. She was letting her four kiddos lead the way down the road, and she was bringing up the rear. This was my first time seeing a bear with her young. Despite all the cars and the chaos of all the people around them, the bears seemed completely unbothered and alternated between walking down the middle of the road and the woods. 399 walked right by our vehicle. I could have reached out and touched her, but obviously I would never do that, and when she got close, I rolled up my windows.
1:10:26 Danielle LaRock? Looking back through my pictures, I was actually fortunate enough to get a picture that included all five of them. I went the rest of the trip without knowing it was three ninety-nine at all. Later, when I was sharing this with a friend at work, she got excited about how I saw such a famous bear and how special that must have been. It was then that I started following the updates of three ninety-nine on social media and learning more about her story. Over the last three years, I've become quite the fangirl of this beautiful mama bear. I returned to the Tetons in September of this year. This was a trip celebrating my graduation from NP school and my mom's sixtieth birthday. I told my parents all about three ninety-nine and was really hoping to see her again this trip. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. However, we did come across a grizzly on Signal Mountain.
1:11:12 Danielle LaRock? We were able to observe the bear digging and eating something from around the edge of a pond. It was just the three of us in the grizzly. We observed it for about twenty minutes, and I'm sure the bear was aware of our presence, but didn't pay us any attention. This was the only grizzly we saw on that trip and truly was a beautiful experience to share with some of the most important people in my life. Hearing of three ninety-nine's death truly did sadden me to my core. My mom even said, "I knew it was going to upset you." Knowing I'll never have the opportunity to see her again makes me realize how truly special that day was in May of two thousand and twenty-one. Wishing y'all nothing but the best. Fallon.
1:11:49 Cassandra Yahnian? Wow.
1:11:50 Danielle LaRock? Yeah.
1:11:51 Cassandra Yahnian? Very cool experience.
1:11:52 Danielle LaRock? Yeah.
1:11:53 Cassandra Yahnian? And I also saw a grizzly in Signal Mountain area, so that was where I saw mine in Grand Teton National Park, too.
1:11:59 Danielle LaRock? Oh.
1:12:00 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah, but what a cool experience to be able to see her and her four cubs, because she did have a litter of four cubs, which is very rare. And especially she did that, I think she was twenty-six when she had them, twenty-five or twenty-six, which is already an unheard of time for bears to still be reproducing like that. And to have four was incredible. So not only did you get to see bear three ninety-nine, but you actually got to see a really special and rare moment of her and her four cubs.
1:12:27 Danielle LaRock? Yeah, truly.
1:12:29 Cassandra Yahnian? Yeah. Okay, my next story is titled Huckleberry Wine, Three Ninety-Nine, and the Absolute Experience of a Lifetime.
1:12:37 Cassandra Yahnian? Hi Danielle and Cassie. As many do, I want to start off by saying how much I adore your podcast. You two are the most amazing storytellers and I love that you use your platform to promote conservation efforts and wilderness safety. Listening to your podcast has gotten me through some of the toughest points of the last few years, truly. I have been wanting to write in with this story for about two years, since I listened to your very first Trail Tales episode. I hadn't done it because I knew it would take a lot of time and I wanted to write it well. Last week, after shedding many tears when the news came out that she was hit and killed by a car, I decided that it was time. Ironically, I just saw your story on Facebook requesting stories with her, and I just finished typing this up last night to send us a Trail Tales story. Such thing as coincidences.
1:13:21 Cassandra Yahnian? I was going to beg you to do an episode, or two, or three, on her, lol. Anyways, clearly you have heard of Grizzly399, the queen of the Tetons, and I want to share the most beautiful experience I had with her that still brings tears to my eyes and sends chills through my body when I think about it. I hope you two enjoy the story, even if it doesn't end up on the pod. I first learned about the bear during the summer of 2019, when I worked as a wrangler in Grand Teton National Park. Talk about an amazing summer. It didn't take long for me to fall in love with her story, even though I didn't see her in person, at least as far as I know, during my summer working in the Tetons. I followed her story on social media for the next two years, and reading about her and seeing the photographs brought me
1:14:03 Cassandra Yahnian? so much joy. When I got back to the Grand Teton during the summer of 2021, I had one goal: to see 399 and her quads in person. This was an insane year in bear history, because not only did this famous bear have five babies, but she also kept them all alive until they were two years old, when they were sent out on their own. My wonderful grandfather knew how much I loved the Tetons, and he took me there for an entire week. That trip will always be one of my favorite memories. My grandfather was 76 at the time, and kicking absolute ass, going on 10 to 12 mile hikes with me every day. Somehow, we hadn't seen a single bear during the first six days there, which was nuts to me because the Tetons are absolutely crawling with bears. When I worked out there in 2019, we canceled rides when
1:14:46 Cassandra Yahnian? Day because five different bears came through the corrals with this within the span of about four hours.
1:14:51 Danielle LaRock? Oh my gosh.
1:14:53 Cassandra Yahnian? That is bear activity. On our last two nights of the trip, we went to Yellowstone for two days. My grandpa had only ever spent a day and a half or two in the Tetons as a side attraction to Yellowstone. So getting to show him how much there is in the park was super special. I went horseback riding with some friends who I'd worked with years before. Feel free to use their names. Bailey, the corral foreman and Bella, the lead wrangler, took Jess and I, who were just visiting, on a three hour trail ride through a creek and through some amazing areas of the park that I had missed so much. We laughed so hard we were in tears. I couldn't remember the last time I laughed that hard or felt so happy. That's just what the Tetons do to you. I feel that.
1:15:31 Cassandra Yahnian? The next day, Jess, Bella and I spent an afternoon at Swim Beach, having a campfire and hanging out in hammocks before going riding again. Bella was going to take us down a little known road, the word is used very loosely. It's more of a trail that really wasn't used anymore. No one was ever on it and had some good, safe stretches to gallop the horses. Running horses is always fun, but with the wildlife, the Tetons, we could only do it in long stretches where we could see coming around a corner and running into a grizzly was something that would not happen. Jess bought some huckleberry wine, which was pure nostalgia for all of us from when we worked at Coulter Bay. And we drank that while we rode. I was on my favorite horse from 2019, Aztec. Jess on Fox Lady and Bella on another 2019 favorite, Big Sky.
1:16:16 Cassandra Yahnian? We galloped a few stretches and were having a blast. We kept talking about how this was it. This was our night and we were going to see 399. We had this running joke in 2019 where we would yell, if there's a bear out there, fuck off. Because we wouldn't go on a wrangler only ride. If a bear was too close to the trail, we had to turn around. That happened a lot and was frustrating because we wanted to run. Funny to think about how spoiled we got that we were annoyed by too many bears by the trail and getting caught in bear jams really puts things into perspective looking back. So we kept our goofy saying from 2019, but after fuck off, we added, unless you're 399.
1:16:56 Cassandra Yahnian? And the quads, then please stay. We listened to some Disney songs, were singing, sipping our huckleberry wine and having the time of our life. We got to the meal site, we took some pictures, I'll attach them to this email, and just enjoyed being in our favorite part of the country doing our favorite activity. After a bit, our horses started acting schizy and kept looking towards the brush off to our left. We heard rustling in the bushes. I remember Bella saying, "It's probably a deer or something." And Jess and I said, "In sync, no, it's 399 and the quads." I can't explain how we knew because we couldn't see anything yet, other than we just knew. We saw one little head pop up, followed by another. Two little grizzly cubs were standing
1:17:40 Cassandra Yahnian? on their back legs to get a better look at us. They looked so confused. We immediately backed our horses up significantly, so we were a few hundred yards away and went up onto a ridge. Jess and I were losing our minds, tears coming out of our eyes, about to pee ourselves from excitement, listening to ourselves in videos we took later on is hilarious. And that's when she came out. Grizzly 399, queen of the Tetons. She stood up on her back legs to get a better look at us. She walked out into the meadow with her four cubs in tow. She kept an eye on us, but didn't seem concerned. She was aware of us, but never once showed any sign of aggression. Her babies, on the other hand, looked very confused. I have always wondered if animals
1:18:21 Cassandra Yahnian? realize we are people on horses, or if they think we're some weird horse-human hybrid creature. We got to watch them for about 10 minutes as they foraged in the meadow. That beautiful bear gave us the best gift that day. She graced us with her presence in an area of the park not frequented by tourists. It was just the three of us, our horses, and the bears for the entire experience. We got a private viewing of this beautiful mama and her babies. I'm not sure I've ever been as happy as I was that night, and that very well may still be the coolest thing to have ever happened to me. My poor grandpa didn't see a single bear while we were in the Tetons. I, on the other hand, ended up seeing six, one black bear the night before, including the most famous bear in the world. Don't worry, though, he saw one black bear mama-
1:19:06 Cassandra Yahnian? And two babies in Yellowstone. I, like you two, don't believe in coincidences. I believe that Jess and I were on the same wavelength as the bear that night. She gave us the ultimate blessing and I am forever grateful to her for giving us that experience. I did not believe in manifesting before then, but I do now. I hope you enjoyed my story. It wasn't spooky or morbid, but more of a feel-good animal story, and I know you guys enjoy those too. I attached a few pictures and videos. Neither are that good because we were a couple hundred yards away and just had our phones. You're welcome to post any of the pictures, but the videos are for your eyes only, please. Not something I'd want just anyone to hear, but I think our reactions verbally were pretty funny. And I would guess you can understand our excitement.
1:19:49 Cassandra Yahnian? If I had one takeaway from the story, it would be to never doubt your ability to make something you want happen. And that it is absolutely possible to connect with nature or a creature on a special level. I truly believe our energy and our souls connected with that bear that night. And that is why we had the experience of a lifetime. Or maybe Huckleberry wine is just that lucky. What I do know for sure, though, is that I will never forget the special memory with that special bear. Three ninety-nine sure was one hell of a bear. Thank you, guys, for all you do. I could gush about this bear for days, so I'll end the story here. Enjoy the view, but watch your back and never pass up a glass of Huckleberry wine. Rest in peace, Queen of the Tetons. Lots of love to you both. Grace.
1:20:33 Danielle LaRock? That sounds like one of the most bear, um, you know, sighting of three ninety-nine clearly was like the epitome of that story, but even just without, that sounds like the best day.
1:20:46 Cassandra Yahnian? It really does.
1:20:47 Danielle LaRock? Right? Like you and your two friends drinking wine on horseback in the, like.
1:20:52 Cassandra Yahnian? In the Tetons, one of those beautiful spots in the country, just having like the best experience with your friends.
1:20:58 Danielle LaRock? Yeah. I mean.
1:21:00 Cassandra Yahnian? Dream day.
1:21:00 Danielle LaRock? Totally, totally.
1:21:02 Cassandra Yahnian? It was really nostalgic for me reading that because I worked in the Tetons on a ranch years ago and I visit recently and just, there's something about being on horseback and out with your friends in the mountains and to have that experience, but then to add such a special experience with wildlife while you're there. It's just a really cool story.
1:21:22 Danielle LaRock? Yeah. Cool. I loved the incorporation of people's experiences just because this is, was a story just so heavily involved with others and their perception of this bear. So it was a cool addition.
1:21:36 Cassandra Yahnian? Thank you. And thank you, everyone, for sharing your stories that wrote into us. It is really interesting to hear the how special she was to people. And I really wanted to highlight that she was special, but I also wanted to highlight that it's a double edged sword because of the habituation and the problems that are going on and have yet to be fully seen within the park and the ecosystem that is there. But you can't deny there will probably never be another bear like her. And we lived in a time where she existed and a lot of people have a lot of special memories with her. So to end this episode, I do want to leave you all with a quote from the book I mentioned earlier, Grizzly 399, the world's most famous mother bear.
1:22:18 Cassandra Yahnian? And that quote is, "We hope the celebration of 399 will inspire you to give voice to species that desperately need us. The same heartfelt fascination, respect, and love that you have for 399 should be carried forward and extended to other beings with which we share this earth. Nothing would be better commemoration of Grizzly 399. It would be a profound declaration that she mattered. That's how we can make her legacy part of our own."
1:22:48 Danielle LaRock? Are you intentionally trying to make me cry?
1:22:51 Cassandra Yahnian? Because. No, but I just loved that quote.
1:22:55 Danielle LaRock? It's so, it's just so true. And I think about it a lot with not just 399, but with other animals like Wolf 06. And then for people who are familiar with the Wolf Romeo up in Alaska, which I haven't done his story yet, but I will. And like P22, like the mountain lion, that another story in the works, just like these iconic. Animals that people just love so much individually. It's just the, the best thing that you can do for them despite whatever tragedy befalls them, or if they just pass away naturally, is to extend that same compassion to others of their species.
1:23:36 Danielle LaRock? And that's just all we can do for the creatures we share this little world with. And I think that was just a beautiful way to end it, so.
1:23:45 Cassandra Yahnian? Thank you. Welcome. And beautifully said, and I hope that if 399 is someone you hadn't heard of before, I hope that her story resonates with you and that this was something that, this was an episode that meant something to you. And I, I really enjoyed researching her and learning more about her and the impact that she's had. And I will definitely be looking on to see what's happening with the grizzly delisting in Wyoming and what's going to come of that. And who knows, from this recording, like I, like we mentioned before, this is being recorded on October 31st, which is the deadline of when we're supposed to start getting some answers. So we'll see when this, we'll see, I, if you haven't looked it up, or if there's no
1:24:28 Cassandra Yahnian? news, like look it up as you're listening right now, because as of right now, I don't know, but there could be some big changes that have happened.
1:24:35 Danielle LaRock? All right, well, thank you everyone for tuning in and we will see you next week. In the meantime, enjoy the view.
1:24:44 Cassandra Yahnian? But watch your back.
1:24:45 Danielle LaRock? Bye.
1:24:46 Cassandra Yahnian? Bye.
1:24:52 Danielle LaRock? Thank you so much for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale or story suggestion, send us an email at [email protected] . Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at National Park After Dark and on Twitter at NPAD Podcast. Join our outsiders only community on Patreon or Apple subscriptions to listen ad free, unlock monthly bonus episodes and exclusive content. And remember, when you support our sponsors, you are supporting our show. For our exclusive discount codes and source information from today's episode, check out the show notes. For more information on our show, our book recommendations, merch updates and more, visit our website at NPADpodcast.com.
1:25:34 Danielle LaRock? And please rate, review and subscribe from wherever you listen to podcasts.
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