The Deadly Hunt for the Lost Dutchman Mine: Tonto National Forest

When a dying prospector revealed the secret of a hidden gold mine deep within Arizona's Superstition Mountains, he ignited a mystery that has lured people to their deaths for more than a century. Cryptic maps, mysterious stone carvings, suspicious deaths, and countless expeditions have failed to reveal it’s location. More than 130 years later, the Lost Dutchman Mine remains one of America's greatest treasure hunts. For a full list of our sources, visit npadpodcast.com/episodes For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials: Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdark Support the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to this week’s partners! Blueland: Reduce single-use plastic at home with Blueland's innovative household cleaning products. Get 15% off your first order at Blueland | Eco-Friendly Cleaning Products | Blueland . Smalls: Give your cat protein-packed, fresh food made with human-grade ingredients delivered right to your door. Get 60% off your first order, plus free shipping, at Fresh Human-Grade Cat Food Delivery | Smalls . Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:32Speaker 01

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• 1:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  If you think wild adventures in search of lost treasure are something reserved for children's books or in the distant past, think again. Discovering a hidden stash of gold and precious gems is very much a modern-day possibility. And there's lots of treasure hunters willing to risk their lives to track them down and claim them. Take, for instance, the Fen treasure. Back in 2010, the Santa Fe author and artist Forrest Fen stashed over $5 million worth of gold, jewelry, and valuable artifacts somewhere deep in the Rocky Mountains. All he left behind to find it was a cryptic poem he published in his memoir, "The Thrill of the Chase." Five people died in pursuit of the treasure, but eventually,

• 1:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  10 years later, in 2020, a medical student found it in Yellowstone National Park.

• 1:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  But there's plenty of other treasures that still to this day have yet to be found. During the early 1800s, Thomas J. Beal found a mine full of gold and silver near Santa Fe. He and a bunch of other guys loaded it up and took it to Virginia, where they buried it all. Beal then created three encoded ciphers, explaining how to find the treasure. Only one of those encoded letters has been broken, the one that used the Declaration of Independence for its cipher key. The other two ciphers are still unbroken even now. And that means the treasure is still buried out there somewhere. Another still undiscovered treasure, known as the Old Spanish Treasure Cave, reportedly holds heaps of gold that Spanish conquistadors

• 2:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  stashed somewhere in Arkansas as a flood from Native American fighters. Not to mention the pirate Blackbeard's buried treasure that he never trusted anyone enough to divulge the location of. Treasure hunters have scoured the Atlantic coast from Virginia's Chesapeake Bay all the way to the islands of the Caribbean to the pirates' booty, but to no avail. Treasure hunters have become obsessed with finding hidden troves of wealth, and some end up dying in pursuit. One lost treasure that's taken over 30 lives is the Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains outside of Phoenix. It's been 135 years since a German prospector left behind a sketchy map to a mine deep in the Saguaro Desert,

• 3:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  promising hundreds of millions of dollars of gold. Ever since then, people have searched those hills for the mine. They've starved to death, gotten shot, beheaded, massacred, but still, the Lost Dutchman's Mine has never been found. Welcome to National Park After Dark.

• 3:59Danielle LaRock?

  Hello everyone and welcome back to National Park After Dark. My name is Danielle.

• 4:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  And I'm Cassie.

• 4:04Danielle LaRock?

  And I'm so excited. I'm so excited.

• 4:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  So excited.

• 4:09Danielle LaRock?

  I have goosebumps and it's just so timely. It's something about the summer that gets me in the mood of trying to find

• 4:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Treasure hunting.

• 4:16Danielle LaRock?

  Treasure, yeah, treasure. And I was just looking up Maine once because especially along the coast. And there's quite a few, quite a few, yes.

• 4:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Are you gonna go out this summer and treasure hunt?

• 4:29Danielle LaRock?

  I kinda want to.

• 4:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  I kinda should.

• 4:32Danielle LaRock?

  You should come back from out west. We have things to do.

• 4:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  I know. I would love to. I am missing, I will say, I am really loving being out west, but I am missing the ocean and the coast. I do feel a little landlocked. So before the summer's over, I definitely want to come visit you and treasure hunt on the coast of Maine.

• 4:51Danielle LaRock?

  There's one in particular that it feels like there's a pretty, because usually it's like this general area and it's like hundreds of miles it could be in. And this one, we could talk about it later, but, because I don't want everyone to go, but.

• 5:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, she is keeping her secret.

• 5:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Localized. Tell you guys about this because we want to get rich.

• 5:15Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, but I'm really excited to hear about this because I have heard of this legend. But in all honesty, I thought it was fake. Like I thought it was just a legend. I didn't know it was for real, for real.

• 5:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's for real, for real. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there is a lot of legend behind it. So we'll kind of get into that. But there have been a lot of people who have died searching for this mine and people are still out there searching for it. And it's super interesting and I was. When I was going into this whole subject and researching it and everything, I was thinking, and I haven't covered an episode like this since The Forest Venn, one which was years ago now. And I just was like, it's time. Summer is such a good time to feel adventurous and want to find hidden treasures. And unfortunately, this one gets a little dark in some places, but there is allegedly millions of dollars of gold in the Superstition Mountains in Arizona,

• 6:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  which is exciting.

• 6:14Danielle LaRock?

  That is exciting. I even read, so our book club voted on a different book, but the runner up was The Amalfi Coast.

• 6:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Did you read it?

• 6:24Danielle LaRock?

  I read it.

• 6:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Did you like it?

• 6:26Danielle LaRock?

  It's about like sunken treasure and stuff and I wanted.

• 6:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's, that's fun.

• 6:30Danielle LaRock?

  I'm just in the mood, you know?

• 6:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay, so good timing if you're in the mood for treasure and all of that. I, I have it. So let's jump into the story because there's a lot going on. And I guess to preface this, there are a lot of people and timelines throughout this story. And how I'm going to tell it is we're going to start off at the beginning of the lost Dutchman mine and get into that. And then we're gonna get into the people who over years and years have been trying to find it.

• 7:00Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 7:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  So our story begins in February of 1891 in the Arizona Territory, when a series of powerful winter storms unleashed devastating floods across the Salt River Valley, the fertile stretch of farmland surrounding present day Phoenix. The normally manageable Salt River swelled into a raging torrent more than three miles wide, washing away homes, farms, bridges, railroad tracks, and irrigation canals. Among those caught in the disaster was 83 year old Jacob Walz, a German immigrant who had spent decades farming along the river's north bank while quietly prospecting in the nearby Superstition Mountains.

• 7:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Every so often, he'd return from the wilderness carrying unusually rich gold ore, but he never revealed where he found it. As floodwaters swallowed his farm, Jacob ended up stranded in a tree where he remained for two days until he was rescued. The ordeal took a devastating toll on his health and he never fully recovered, eventually developing a severe case of pneumonia. Following the flood, Jacob was taken to the home of 29-year-old Julia Thomas, a German-speaking woman originally from New Orleans. Because Julia spoke German, the language Jacob spoke most fluently, the two were able to communicate with ease. She cared for him over the next several months,

• 8:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  and as she sat by his bedside, they got to talking and struck up a friendship. One day, while she was sitting with Jacob, he was visited by some friends who delivered five mysteriously heavy bags to him. She decided to look inside. She's like, "I'm feeling a little nosey. What's in these big bags?" And she looks inside and she saw heaps of gold ore twinkling back at her. After the friends left, she asked Jacob about the bags of gold, and he confided a secret to her that he had been keeping for years. He said the gold was his cut from a mine hidden deep in the Superstition Mountains just east of Phoenix. He estimated that the mine was worth about $20 million.

• 9:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  And if you're talking about that money back then, it's 1890s here. Today, that would be worth roughly $700 million. I'm like, "Not bad." I see why people are going out here after this one. So Jacob told Julia he believed he had discovered the last of the Peralta mines. According to local legend, the Peralta family, a wealthy ranching family from Sonora, Mexico, had ventured north into the Superstition Mountains during the 1840s after discovering incredibly rich deposits of gold. The story claimed they secretly worked a network of mines hauling mule loads of gold back to Mexico for years. Also, according to the legend, and this is all,

• 9:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  this is where like the legend really comes in of-

• 9:54Danielle LaRock?

  Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, yes.

• 9:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, and just where all this gold is really coming from. So according to this legend, the Apaches actually took an issue with the Peralta's blasting into the mountains and mining within their homeland. And they were repeatedly trying to drive them away. Eventually, the family loaded as much gold as they could onto pack mules and began the journey back to Mexico. But before they could escape, they were ambushed somewhere in the Superstition Mountains by Apache warriors. Some versions of the story describe it as massacre with only one or two members of the expedition surviving. However, many retellings of the Lost Dutchman Mine claim that the Apache attacked the Peralta's

• 10:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  because they believed the Superstition Mountains were sacred to a thunder god and fiercely guarded the gold hidden within them. However, I will say, this is kind of where a legend, it's like, ah, we don't know if this part is really true, because in an interview conducted in 2021, and then published in 2023, the White Mountain Apache Tribe's Cultural Resource Director rejected that explanation, saying the idea of a thunder god protecting the mountain was likely invented by non-Apache storytellers. He explained that the Apache had no use for gold and instead viewed it as something that brought greed, violence, and suffering. So if conflicts did occur between Apache groups and outsiders in the Superstition Mountains,

• 11:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  they were far more likely to be defending their land versus trying to defend this gold and this god. Whether any of the Peralta story actually happened remains subject to debate. Historians have found little evidence that the family ever mined the superstitions at all, but over time, their story became inseparable from the legend of the Lost Dutchman Mine. According to that legend, after the attack, the Apache gathered the abandoned gold and destroyed the entrances to the Peralta Mines, sealing them forever. All except one, and Jacob had claimed that he had found it. He told Julia he couldn't believe his eyes when he entered the mine shaft. He said he could have cut the gold straight from the walls where it was embedded in quartz

• 12:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  in thick, lustrous veins. Jacob promised Julia that as soon as he recovered, he would take her there himself. But unfortunately, not long after making that promise, Jacob suffered a debilitating stroke that left him partially paralyzed and confined to his bed, making the difficult journey into the Superstition Mountains impossible. Instead, he still wanted Julia to be able to go and see what he had been talking about. So he drew Julia a rough map and gave her a series of clues to help her find the mine on her own. He explained that the mine's entrance looked like an inverted tunnel, that it could be seen from a nearby military road, and that it lay in the shadow of Weaver's Needle,

• 12:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  a towering 1,000-foot volcanic rock spire rising from the heart of the Superstition Mountains. Today, the Superstition Mountains are protected in what is now known as Tonto National Forest in central Arizona. So this is my tie-in to why this makes it on the episode. It's about an hour east of Phoenix and roughly two hours north of Saguaro National Park. Spanning nearly 3 million acres, the forest is a striking mix of Sonoran desert, rugged mountains, and remote wilderness where towering Saguaro cacti stand amongst dramatic rock formations and winding desert canyons. It's within this vast and unforgiving landscape that the generations of treasure hunters have searched for the Lost Dutchman Mine.

• 13:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Have you ever been to this area of Arizona?

• 13:33Danielle LaRock?

  I don't think so.

• 13:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  I haven't either.

• 13:35Danielle LaRock?

  I have to look on my, um, this is, it's, God. Something about a treasure story just gets me going. Um, I love it so much, but...

• 13:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm sad.

• 13:48Danielle LaRock?

  I'm more than sad. I am in it. But my recent trip to Guadalupe National Park, which I know is not near this, but in the general southwestern area, I picked up a book at the visitor center called Legends and Lore of the Guadalupe Mountains. And there is a lot, a lot of... There's so many things to find, allegedly, if we're to believe legends and lore.

• 14:17Danielle LaRock?

  A lot of it does have to do with, um, it was just sparking my memory because you're talking about different Apache raids and conflicts and things like that. And the mail routes that used to go through there. Um, there was a lot of, I'm not saying just by Apache, but kind of conflicts going on with the settlers and the Apache and robberies and things like that. And people looting the mail that was also transporting a lot of gold and things of the like and being stashed and lost amongst the Guadalupe Mountains. So, uh, okay. So hold on, Tonto National Forest, you're saying?

• 14:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Yeah. It's not too far from Saguaro and I have been to Saguaro.

• 15:02Danielle LaRock?

  Well, I feel like a lot of people must, I mean, Sedona is immediately north of this.

• 15:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. And it's not far from Phoenix, which is obviously a huge hub. So I'm sure this is.

• 15:13Danielle LaRock?

  Oh my God, I was just there. I was just at Petrified Forest and that's also nearby. Missed opportunity.

• 15:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. So you're right there. You could have found the treasure. You could have gone treasure hunting. Although I don't know if you'll want to after I tell you all the, uh, the stories and lore around the people who have gone searching for it.

• 15:33Danielle LaRock?

  You did mention beheadings, which is a little frightening, but okay, continue.

• 15:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Kind of puts a damper on the whole fun treasure hunt thing. So going back into, I just explained to you guys why this counts as a National Park After Dark episode. Um, but going back into what Jacob was relaying to Julia about how to find this said mine. He said that from the mine's location, she would be able to see four mountain peaks, a detail he seemed to believe would help her pinpoint the exact spot. However, he never clarified how those peaks would appear from the mine itself. So she didn't know where they meant to be visible all at once lined up side by side, like across the horizon for peaks, or would it be layered where it was four peaks, then another

• 16:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  peak and another peak or like slightly diagonally? She just didn't know which way she was supposed to be looking. And there are quite a few mountains here. So it didn't really help her pinpoint where he was talking about. As the weeks passed, Jacob's condition continued to deteriorate. Already weakened by pneumonia and left partially paralyzed after suffering a stroke, his health never recovered. On October 25th, 1891, Jacob Walts died before anyone could verify whether his directions were complete, taking the mine's exact location with him to the grave. Friends who had known Jacob for years recalled that he frequently returned from the Superstition

• 17:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mountains carrying unusually rich gold ore, yet he never revealed where he found it. For Julia, that was all the proof that she needed, that this mine was real. Convinced Jacob's story had been true, Julia wasted little time. Before caring for him, she had owned a small bakery and confectionery in Phoenix, one of the few businesses operated by a woman in the growing frontier town. Believing that the fortune hidden in the Superstition Mountains was real, she sold her business and used the proceeds to finance an expedition in search of this mine.

• 17:36Danielle LaRock?

  Am I Julia reincarnated? I like her a lot.

• 17:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, this makes sense. You got the tea. You're getting out of the business. You're gonna go make it rich. You're going in the mountains.

• 17:48Danielle LaRock?

  Yep.

• 17:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  The way I would have sat as her, like, sitting on this guy's deathbed and he's like, "I have a secret."

• 17:55Danielle LaRock?

  It's like, tell me more. Tell me everything and don't just give cryptic messages that don't even make sense. And I don't understand your maps. I know you just had a stroke and you're going through it, but be more specific, please.

• 18:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, this is $20 million at this $700 million today. It's like, I need to know where this is. With the money, Julia purchased camping supplies, horses, and a wagon, then partnered with two German brothers, Herman and Reinhard Petrasch, who agreed to help her search for the legendary mine. It didn't take long to realize she had made a costly mistake. The wagon proved nearly useless against the steep rocky terrain of the mountains, forcing the group to abandon it and redistribute their supplies onto the horses before continuing on foot through the wilderness. For nearly three weeks, they searched canyons and rugged mountain slopes, trying to decipher Jacob's rough map and cryptic clues.

• 18:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  But the Arizona desert showed little mercy. As their food and water dwindled, the expedition was forced to turn back, returning to Phoenix empty-handed. The failed search left Julia with nothing. Hoping someone else might be able to solve the mystery, she shared Jacob's story with the Arizona Weekly Gazette. On December 13th, 1891, the newspaper published an article titled, "A Queer Quest: Another Lost Mine Being Hunted by a Woman." Like, breaking news. Breaking news, a woman can do things. But at the time, women were rarely associated with prospecting or frontier exploration. So this idea of a woman leading a search for a lost gold mine actually captivated the public.

• 19:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  They were like, what is this woman doing? What is she searching for? And almost overnight, the legend spread beyond Arizona. Treasure hunters, prospectors, adventurers, and fortune seekers descended onto the Superstition Mountains, all searching for what became known as the Lost Dutchman Mine. Which ironically, Jacob Waltz wasn't Dutch at all. So to be like, the Lost Dutchman, he was German. But in the 19th century, many English speakers mistakenly referred to Germans as Dutch, likely because they confused the German word Deutsch, meaning German, with Dutch. So they're like, oh, Deutsch, Dutch. But it means German. Yeah. So the nickname stuck, and so did the legend.

• 20:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  But at least Julia and the brothers made it back from the Superstition Mountains alive. That was far more than others could say. Long before the Lost Dutchman Mine became one of America's most famous treasure legends, the superstitions had already earned a reputation as a place where people disappeared. According to one of the earliest stories connected to the legend, just a few years before Jacob Waltz claimed to have discovered the mine, two US soldiers rode into Phoenix carrying saddlebags filled with remarkably rich gold ore. A local merchant was stunned by its quality and asked where they had found it. The soldiers refused to reveal the location, but agreed to return to the mountains and bring back more. However, they never returned.

• 21:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Weeks later, searchers found the bodies of two soldiers deep in the superstitions. They had been stripped naked, both had been shot in the head, and the gold they had carried into Phoenix had vanished. No one was ever charged with the killings, and no one knows exactly what happened. Some believe they had been murdered for their gold, others blamed Apache warriors, while still others suspected rival prospectors hoping to keep the discovery for themselves. Whatever the truth, the death only deepens the mountains' growing reputation as a dangerous place. And their story would become the first of many stories in which people ventured into the superstition mountains, searching for gold and never came back.

• 21:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  So now we get to get into all of, all of the lore around the people trying to find this mine. And we'll see if people listening still, like, I feel like whenever I hear a treasure story or a mine or something, I'm like, oh, yeah, I would love to do that. I want to look into this and, and figure out the clues and stuff. And I'm so curious if people will feel that way once they know what's been happening to all the people who try to find this mine.

• 22:20Danielle LaRock?

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• 24:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  In 1914, the legend took a surprising twist when a businessman named Erwin Ruth traveled to Mexico. While he was there on business, he happened to meet a distant relative of the Peralta family. The two became friendly, and the relative eventually gave Erwin what he claimed was a map leading to the family's secret gold mine in Arizona. Erwin returned to the United States and shared the map with his father Adolf Ruth. Convinced it might be authentic, Adolf had the document examined by an expert who concluded it appeared to date back to the early 1800s, around the same time the Peralta family was supposedly mining in the region. Adolf spent years studying the map alongside the rugged geography of

• 25:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  the Superstition Mountains. Eventually, he became convinced that generations of treasure hunters had been searching in the wrong place. Instead of looking near Weaver's Needle, as Jacob Walt's clues seemed to suggest, Adolf believed the legendary mine was actually hidden near Blacktop Mesa, a broad, flat-topped volcanic mesa several miles north of Weaver's Needle in the northern reaches of the Superstition Mountains. By the summer of 1931, Adolf decided it was finally time to test his theory. He set out alone. He was 66 years old, stood barely five feet tall, weighing just over 100 pounds, and he walked with a pronounced

• 26:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  limp from chronic arthritis and suffered from persistent pain. But despite his age and his failing health, he was convinced he was on the verge of solving one of the greatest treasure mysteries in the American West. On July 14, 1931, Adolf paid several men to drive him to Willow Springs, one of the primary gateways into the Superstition Mountains. There, they unloaded his supplies, wished him luck, and watched as the elderly treasure hunter disappeared into the desert alone. A week passed with no word from Adolf. Friends initially assumed he was staying longer than planned, but as the days stretched on, concern began to grow. A search party headed into the mountains soon located his campsite. His bedroll-

• 26:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Cooking utensils, food, and personal belongings were still there, indicating he had planned to return. But Adolf Ruth was nowhere to be found, and neither was the map he was carrying. Months passed with no signs of Ruth. Summer gave way to fall, and fall turned into winter. With each passing week, hope that the elderly treasure hunter would be found alive faded. Then, in December of 1931, someone stumbled across a human skull in the Superstition Mountains. It eventually was found. It belonged to Adolf Ruth. But there was one major problem. There was no sign of his body. His skull had two holes in it, which some experts believe were bullet holes,

• 27:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  turning what had been a disappearance into a possible murder investigation. Several weeks later, in January of 1932, searchers finally located the rest of Adolf's skeletal remains in a small drainage on the eastern slope of the Blacktop Mesa, roughly three quarters of a mile from where his skull had been found. His personal belongings were scattered nearby, including his pistol, which still contained all of its unfired rounds. But one item was mysteriously missing. The Peralta map he carried. Yes. Everything else is with him, but the map is gone. The plot thickens. Does. Then came one final chilling detail.

• 28:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Among Adolf's recovered belongings was a note. In it, he claimed he had found the mine and included directions to it. At the end, he wrote the Latin phrase "waini weedy wiki", meaning "I came, I saw, I conquered." Okay. Like, did you? You're not alive anymore. You're dead. Like, I don't think you conquered, but it is chilling that you claim that you found it. He also scribbled something about a strange circle and a field of black basaltic rock. And basalt is a kind of rock created by volcanoes, and volcanoes are also known to produce precious metals. So maybe he-

• 29:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  He was on to something. It was kind of the thought where he's writing about all this stuff. So people were like, okay, is Blacktop Mesa sitting on this pile of gold? Is there something under here? Like, what actually happened to him? Of course, there's all this mystery going on of what happened to Adolf. And some investigators believed that he died from exposure, thirst, or heart failure. But then it doesn't really explain the holes in his skull. So there were just a lot of questions of what was going on. But that note saying that he found the mine really added to a lot of mystery. But still, no one to this day knows what happened to him.

• 29:49Danielle LaRock?

  And I'm assuming the map has also never been recovered?

• 29:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, it has not, but the map resurfaces. Time passed. Yeah, we'll get into it. Time passed, and a new generation of treasure hunters came sniffing around the superstitions in search of gold. By the 1950s and 60s, advances in technologies such as aerial photography, improved mapping techniques, and access to helicopters were giving searchers an entirely new advantage. One of the most determined was a private investigator from Oklahoma City named Glenn McGinnis. Unlike many of the prospectors before him, Glenn wasn't interested in chasing campfire stories. He wanted evidence. He's like, great, all these legends are cool, whatever, but I want evidence that this place actually exists.

• 30:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  His investigation eventually led him to Adolf Ruth's son, Erwin. Erwin confirmed what many had long suspected. The original Peralta map had vanished with his father somewhere in the Superstition Mountains. However, fortunately Adolf had made a hand-drawn copy before setting out on his final expedition, leaving it behind with his family. It was that surviving copy that Erwin placed in Glenn's hands for him to look at as well. So the map is back. Rather than immediately heading into the mountains, Glenn decided to travel to Mexico where he met the descendants of the Peralta family.

• 31:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  He's like, this map is great, but I want to verify that this is actually accurate in any capacity before I go trying to use it to find this mine.

• 31:29Danielle LaRock?

  Well, especially because, and I know it feels legit based on what you said and the research they did to corroborate, like, okay, it seems to be on track with the timeframe of when the family was actually around there and all that. But it just seems weird to me that it's like, actually, it wasn't this Wheeler Peak. That seemed like a pretty big detail in the original telling, like of

• 31:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, like that's what Jacob said.

• 31:55Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 31:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 31:56Danielle LaRock?

  And now it's actually a mesa miles away from that one physical landmark that was, seems pretty prominent to

• 32:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 32:05Danielle LaRock?

  locating the mine. I don't know.

• 32:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. And for whatever reason, he decided that everything from the map and the clues and stuff, he felt that it was this Blacktop Mesa. And then of course, he gets this map from the Peralta family. And now it's like this new location that they're looking at. But yeah, there's just so much confusion and legend around this that he's like, I want to go straight to the source. I'm going to talk to the Peralta family and see if now this hand drawn replica of this other map that this guy had and disappeared with is actually accurate. So he goes and he speaks with them. And they couldn't verify whether the map itself was genuine. I mean, they weren't like there during this time and they couldn't tell if it was completely accurate, but they did help Glenn interpret its Spanish

• 32:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  place names, symbols, and handwritten notes. Working together, they deciphered the map's clues, leading Glenn to develop a new theory. He became convinced they pointed not to the area around Blacktop Mesa, but he believed that this map was actually indicating a place known as Canyon Fresco. The location appeared to match nearly every clue Jacob Waltz had supposedly left behind. It was visible from an old military road. It lay in the shadow of Weaver's Needle. And from the canyon, the four mountain peaks described by Jacob could all be seen. In December of 1964, Glenn hired a helicopter to survey the area from above. He spent hours photographing the rugged landscape before painstakingly comparing

• 33:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  the aerial images to the Peralta map. One location kept drawing his attention. An unusually lush patch of vegetation atop Bluff Springs Mountain, where a natural spring nourished deep greenery surrounded by otherwise dry, rocky terrain. To Glenn, it matched the map and Jacob's clues better than anywhere else he had ever seen. So Glenn became convinced he had finally found Canyon Fresco and where the location of the lost Dutchman mine was. But one thing that Glenn didn't think about was that desert ecosystems changed drastically over relatively short periods of time. The landscape he was looking at in 1964 wasn't necessarily the same one Jacob Waltz had

• 34:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  described nearly 75 years earlier. A spring could shift or dry up, vegetation could spread or disappear, and landmarks that once stood out could look totally different over this amount of time. So even though he was really convinced, he wasn't really considering that landscapes change. But he was convinced that he solved a mystery that had baffled treasure hunters for generations. He coughed up thousands and thousands of dollars to investigate. Right off the bat, he found some promising clues, including old iron horseshoes believed to date back to the early 1800s, around the time the Peralta family was said to have been mining the region. Then he couldn't believe his eyes. He discovered a narrow

• 35:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  vertical mine shaft, just like the one the old German prospector Jacob Waltz had described. Even more convincing, the shaft was reinforced with heavy timber supports that resembled traditional 19th century Mexican mining construction. To Glenn, every clue seemed to be pointing in the same direction. Giddy with anticipation, he started digging, only to find there wasn't a trace of gold in this mine. Meanwhile, there was a whole different angle unfolding in this mine saga. So let's just rewind a little bit to the late 1940s. An Oregon police officer named Travis Tomelson was driving through southern Arizona while

• 35:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  he was on vacation. After the long drive, he pulled over along US Highway 60 near Apache Junction, about 10 miles west of the Superstition Mountains, and he stopped just to stretch his legs. As he wandered through- The desert weaving between towering saguaros and volcanic boulders, he stubbed his toe on a strange rock. When he bent down to investigate, he realized that it wasn't an ordinary rock at all, but a carefully carved stone tablet covered in peculiar symbols and images. Intrigued, Travis returned to the area several more times over the following years. During those trips, he uncovered three additional carved stone tablets nearby. Together, the four stones fit like a puzzle.

• 36:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  The stones were covered with mysterious carvings. One depicted a priest standing beside a cross. Another featured a horse. A third displayed a heart with inscriptions inside, including the name Miguel, the first name of one of the Peralta family members associated with the legend. Other inscriptions, when translated from Spanish, appeared to read "the pasture north of the river", while another phrase was interpreted as "18 places to get to the heart". Chiseled into one of the stones was the day 1847, just one year before the legendary Peralta massacre was said to have taken place. If the stones were genuine,

• 37:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  they could have been the most significant clue ever discovered in the search of the lost Dutchman mine. But not everyone was convinced. Almost from the moment they were found, people questioned whether the so-called Peralta stones were authentic. Some believed they had been carved much more recently and were nothing more than an elaborate hoax. Skeptics pointed to the heart-shaped carvings in particular, arguing that its smooth, precise lines appeared too perfect to have been made with the 19th century hand tools and instead looked as though they had been cut with modern machinery. They're basically like, "These are fake. This is just a hoax. We don't believe this is linked at all to the Peralta family."

• 37:54Danielle LaRock?

  To me, not knowing the size and shape of these stones, to me, they seem like headstones.

• 38:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, I didn't even think of that.

• 38:02Danielle LaRock?

  Like a priest next to a crossed hearts, like references to... And maybe things are getting lost in translation or their origins to phrases, I'm not sure. But there are so many different nods to... From different cultures of, you know, Valhalla or the other side or heaven or whatever, and like the other side type of thing, like...

• 38:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's such a good point.

• 38:26Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. It just to me and with dates on them and I, to me, it just seems like death markers.

• 38:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, that you just like took away from someone's grave. You know, I think he could have just solved the mystery of the Peralta Stones.

• 38:42Danielle LaRock?

  Great. Happy to have contributed.

• 38:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, for other people who were skeptic thought it was a hoax and some people really believed that it was linked to it. So just because some people didn't believe it didn't stop other people from continuing the search. Over the years, countless treasure hunters tried to decipher the mysterious stones, but none could unlock their secrets, which is crazy because Danielle just figured it out. Eventually, the stones actually ended up tucked away in a museum in Phoenix where they sat for years. Then around 2009, a new team took on the challenge. A missile systems engineer and a computer scientist believed modern technology could succeed where decades of treasure hunters had failed. They spent years studying the stones, digitally analyzing the carvings, comparing them with historic mining records,

• 39:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  topographical maps and aerial photographs in search of a hidden pattern. Eventually, they focused on the heart-shaped carvings and its inscriptions. The engineer concluded that the heart-matched symbols used on some 19th century mining maps and theorized it wasn't simply a decorative carving at all, but a directional marker pointing to the mine. After overlaying the stones' markings onto topographical maps and aerial imagery, the pair became convinced that the heart pointed to Deering Canyon, a rugged canyon deep within what is now Tonto National Forest. Located on the western side of the Superstition Mountains, the canyon lies just a few miles northwest of Weaver's Needle,

• 40:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  placing it squarely in the heart of the landscape most often associated with the lost Dutchman Mine. So like many before them, they launched an expedition. But I don't know. I feel like a heart on a gravestone also makes sense. So I'm kind of with you.

• 40:29Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. It's like, did he find them all kind of clustered in the same? Area, did he search a lot?

• 40:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  He found them over years in the same general region, but I imagine they weren't right next to each other. You know, if it took him years to find four of them.

• 40:45Danielle LaRock?

  Oh yeah, that's true.

• 40:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  You know?

• 40:46Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. I just feel like, especially in the 18th and 19th centuries in this part of the country, you just get buried where you fall. Or, you know, I'm not really envisioning like a family plot type of thing that, you know, everyone's kind of clustered together. And it looks very clearly like a burial ground, but it's more of just like scattered or, I don't know. It's just the first thing that came to mind, but it is fun to think that there are markers leading to a lost mine. So I'm also on board with that.

• 41:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Way more fun than a grave. Yeah.

• 41:17Danielle LaRock?

  So let's just go with that. I will let the grave thing go.

• 41:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think you could be on to something though. But yeah, so they're convinced that they found this clue. So they launch an expedition and once they got there, the pair found what appeared to be an old mine shaft that had long since been filled by decades of erosion, rockfall and desert sediment. Hoping to see what lay beneath the surface without disturbing the ground. The engineer used a device known as a ground phase recorder. A controversial piece of equipment some treasure hunters believe can detect underground voids and mineral deposits. The images it produced appeared to show pinkish white veins running through the walls of the buried shaft. The same color as the gold bearing quartz Jacob Waltz had once described.

• 42:04Danielle LaRock?

  Why is it controversial?

• 42:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't, I think it's controversial because they don't, some people don't believe it works.

• 42:11Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 42:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't think there's like a mysterious, like, like ooh ah thing. I think it's just, people are like, you could use that, but it doesn't work. Like it's controversial whether or not it actually does anything.

• 42:22Danielle LaRock?

  I didn't know if it was controversial over, because this is actually a question I was going to ask you at the end. But what your feelings are on when it comes to treasure hunting and finding, you know, lost loot or stashes of whatever, whatever it is.

• 42:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 42:39Danielle LaRock?

  Are you like a treasure hunting purist where?

• 42:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, give me the technology.

• 42:45Danielle LaRock?

  Really?

• 42:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 42:47Danielle LaRock?

  I'm not.

• 42:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Help me. I need help.

• 42:49Danielle LaRock?

  I feel like I'm not.

• 42:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  You wouldn't want any type, like you wouldn't wanna, if you were in the, you wouldn't wanna take in a helicopter over the superstition mountains and get an aerial view of the location you would wanna hike into it or ride horses into it.

• 43:03Danielle LaRock?

  I feel like it just kinda takes away from, like if, I don't know, I'm really torn because there are clear advantages to what technology has to offer, but I feel like it kinda takes some of the air out of the whole thing. Like, imagine you're like, I've been poring over historical records and looking at maps and having boots on the ground and doing all this. And yeah, you're hitting a lot of dead ends, but you're like really putting the work into it versus someone on their computer and looking at maps or using pieces of computer equipment or machinery to do it for you. And it's like, oh yeah, found it.

• 43:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  You could have both. I'm in it for the money, honey. I don't care how I get it.

• 43:47Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, okay.

• 43:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm just getting it.

• 43:48Danielle LaRock?

  See, I feel like I'd be like, congrats, but.

• 43:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  You did it wrong.

• 43:53Danielle LaRock?

  I don't have as much respect. The respect is.

• 43:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm sorry, you're worth millions of dollars now. I don't respect you though.

• 43:59Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And that's the truth.

• 44:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't need respect for seven hundred million dollars.

• 44:05Danielle LaRock?

  That's fine. And now I have my answer. Keep going. That's why I didn't know if it was controversial, like people look down on it, but okay.

• 44:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay, so they find.

• 44:15Danielle LaRock?

  It's using the machine.

• 44:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, so they're using this machine. They found what maybe could be this mine that they've been looking for the whole time. And if the readings were accurate, whatever was hidden below lay just two feet beneath their feet. So they're standing on top of it. That's nothing. However, there was just one problem. Deer in Canyon lay within the federally protected superstition wilderness inside Tonto National Forest. Believing they had discovered an archaeological site, the pair documented their findings and consulted with the US Forest Service. According to them, the Forest Service agreed the site appeared to be archaeological

• 44:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  in nature, meaning that it was protected under federal law. Excavating the site would have required permits from multiple government agencies, and without them, digging was simply not an option. And they were also, it seems like they weren't able to get them either. So devastated, they had to walk away, never knowing whether they had just stood above the legendary lost Dutchman mine.

• 45:22Danielle LaRock?

  Doing the right thing just costs $700 million.

• 45:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, it's like, just dig it up.

• 45:29Danielle LaRock?

  Just don't say anything. No, it's the right, it's the right.

• 45:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  It is the right thing to do, for sure.

• 45:34Danielle LaRock?

  But nobody was curious.

• 45:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Nobody was like, you know, maybe you did just stumble on seven, you're just gonna leave $700 million under this, two feet under the surface?

• 45:44Danielle LaRock?

  And even if it wasn't, whoever was saying, yes, we agree, this is probably archaeological in nature, you don't want to know what that is. Like, push the permits through, let's go.

• 45:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, let's find out what this is.

• 45:56Danielle LaRock?

  Like, there are people behind the process of doing it, and I know the process can be long and arduous, but get people on your set, like, make friends in permit offices.

• 46:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Couldn't find exactly like, why this wasn't pushed further, but it was just kind of like, yeah, we think it's archaeological, you can't touch it. And that was it. Like, it was never really, from what I could see, it was never really dove into any further.

• 46:24Cassandra Yahnian?

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• 47:06Cassandra Yahnian?

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• 48:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  But of course, these two were not the only ones who were scrambling to kind of discover this mine's mystery. A Phoenix local named Ted Cox collected thousands of pages of notes about his own investigation into the mine. He had been searching for it since he was a little boy after hearing his father's stories about the legend. His father had been living in Phoenix when Jacob Walz died and left behind the map. But Ted had yet another theory about the mine's location. He believed everybody had been looking on the wrong side of the Superstition Mountains. According to Ted, the mine was on the east side, not the west side where everyone else had been looking. He found an old mine shaft that checked off all of Walz's boxes.

• 48:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  There was even a horse-shaped rock nearby. Convinced he had found the right place, Ted started digging. But Ted soon discovered there wasn't any gold there. His research eventually led him to a different conclusion. He became convinced that the lost Dutchman mine was None other than the Silver Chief Mine and that all of its gold had already been excavated years earlier by an old prospector named James Rogers. The Silver Chief had been one of the most productive mines in the area, making James and his partner nearly a million dollars in the late 1800s. So he's like, the secret lost mine was never a secret. People knew where it was and it was actively being mined was basically his conclusion from everything.

• 49:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  And tests were conducted comparing Jacob Waltz gold ore to the ore from the Silver Chief Mine. One of Waltz's surviving pieces of gold had been fashioned into a small matchbox. Using modern scientific analysis, researchers found it was made from the same type of ore that came from the Silver Chief Mine. Both samples were embedded in the same kind of quartz and both contained unusually high concentrations of mercury, a relatively rare characteristic. So they're like, it's, we can't verify that this definitely came from this mine, but it's certainly possible. But also, if you think about that, if it did come from this mine, it means that that mine was

• 50:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  completely eradicated of all of its gold and that there's not $700 million sitting beneath the surface anymore. It's, it's been taken. So that's kind of a bummer.

• 50:33Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, less fun.

• 50:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Less fun, for sure. There was one other possibility proposed by a bona fide geologist named John D. Wilburn. In 1975, he published a book called The Riddle of the Lost Dutchman Mine, laying out his own theory about the mystery. Wilburn believed Nurse Julia Thomas's map had been wrong from the very beginning, whether intentionally or by accident. He argued that Julia's clues had pointed treasure hunters into the volcanic core of the Superstition Mountains, where the geology didn't support the kind of rich gold deposits Jacob Waltz had described. Instead, he believed searchers should have been looking where rich gold deposits were actually known to exist.

• 51:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  That led Wilburn to the ghost town of Goldfield, located at the western base of the Superstition Mountains. During the late 1800s, Goldfield had been one of Arizona Territory's richest mining camps and was home to the Bulldog Mine, one of the most productive gold mines in the superstitions. Wilburn believed the old German prospector Jacob Waltz had likely worked there for many years, beginning around 1868. Over the course of its operation, the Bulldog Mine produced more than a million dollars' worth of high-quality gold ore. It also happened to be within sight of the Military Road, matching one of Waltz's most well-known clues. But by 1897, the mine had been played out, Goldfield had been abandoned,

• 52:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  and little remained of the once booming town besides a handful of weathered buildings and desert brush. Then, in March 2003, heavy equipment destroyed the entrance to the historic Bulldog Mine, eliminating a shaft that had stood for well over a century. If Wilburn's theory had been correct, any remaining evidence may have been destroyed along with it. And of course, over the years, there's been a lot of people who have continued to search for this mine, despite there's all these different theories and what's been going on, and today, people are still out there trying to find it. But the riddle of the Lost Dutchman Mine continues to captivate treasure hunters, historians, and adventurers alike.

• 52:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  So while it has never been found to this day, the next time you visit Tonto National Forest, enjoy the view, but watch your step. The next clue to the Lost Dutchman Mine might be hiding right underneath your feet. And that is my story of the Lost Dutchman Mine.

• 53:02Danielle LaRock?

  I think it's so wild that so much has happened just because we believed this one guy.

• 53:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  This one guy. You know what I mean? This is what I'm gonna do when I die. I'm gonna leave a deathbed confession of something wild that can live on forever.

• 53:20Danielle LaRock?

  It was more than just a deathbed confession because allegedly Julia saw this gold and it feels-

• 53:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  And other people too.

• 53:28Danielle LaRock?

  And it felt like it gave more substance and like substantiated what he was saying. So I understand that. But like, it's still, you're kinda just taking his word for it.

• 53:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, he could have been lying.

• 53:42Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, right. He could have just been-

• 53:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  He was a prospector. He could have just had gold from that.

• 53:47Danielle LaRock?

  Right. So, all right, well, what have, this wasn't prepared. So if you don't have an answer on the spot, I understand, but do you have a, aside from this, do you have a lost treasure, unsolved mystery, legend, lore type of thing that you would want the answer to the most? Like if there was one story that you want a conclusion or it to be found or whatever, do you have one of those?

• 54:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  You know, I don't have like one that I'm like dying to know, but how I mentioned at the beginning, that Virginia treasure in my intro.

• 54:30Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, right. Yeah.

• 54:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  That I mentioned, I think that that one would be super interesting.

• 54:36Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 54:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. I don't know. There's just like, and Blackbeard's treasure, obviously too, is like a.

• 54:43Danielle LaRock?

  There's just so many.

• 54:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  There's so many. Yeah. I would, it would be so cool to find a treasure, though.

• 54:49Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, my God. And you know what? You, I know you would, you're gonna be like, give you the 700 mil treasures, but treasure really is what you make of it. And it could just be something small.

• 55:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  Right.

• 55:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Go geocaching then, if that's how you feel.

• 55:10Danielle LaRock?

  You're like, go geocaching and get the fuck away from me. And don't bring me.

• 55:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. It's like, I'm in it for the money. Yeah. I'm not, geocaching is cool. I would do that for the adventure. But if I'm in it for the money, I'm in it for the money.

• 55:23Danielle LaRock?

  No, I understand. I just, I think treasure hunting is so fun, particularly because not just like for the money and stuff, but because it really brings together so many different aspects of what I find the most interesting in this world. And that's like examining history and picking through history to find like different clues and obviously getting outside and adventuring around and going through separating fact from fiction. And I just think it's just the coolest thing ever. And yeah, I would do crazy things to know.

• 56:04Danielle LaRock?

  What is under the ground in Oak Island? The Oak Island mystery?

• 56:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know that one.

• 56:12Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, my God.

• 56:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Tell me.

• 56:15Danielle LaRock?

  Did you not see any of my Instagram stories when I was in my Halifax trip? No, you've been offline.

• 56:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, I'm offline. I didn't see a single one.

• 56:25Danielle LaRock?

  Well, that's fucked up, first of all, because that was a crazy cool thing that I did. Uh, so I take offense to that, but.

• 56:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  I am offended that you didn't tell me personally.

• 56:36Danielle LaRock?

  Well, you didn't ask.

• 56:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  I didn't know you were on a treasure hunt out there.

• 56:40Danielle LaRock?

  It was a side quest upon a side quest.

• 56:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  I will know from now on, whenever you're somewhere to ask if you were on a treasure hunt.

• 56:47Danielle LaRock?

  Thank you. Well, so I'm, this is like, I will do an episode on it. It's not tied to national parks at all, but.

• 56:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Perfect.

• 56:57Danielle LaRock?

  Um, this is actually the impetus of my, well, I wouldn't say the impetus, but because my dad was really the person who got me interested in wanting to know more about legends and lost treasure and things like that. But when I was a sophomore in high school in my English class, one of our assignments was our teacher, Dr. Brown. Uh, Dr. Brown, she wasn't a doctor, Mrs. Brown. Uh, maybe she's a doctor now, who knows? But Mrs. Brown, she had, um, a bunch of different subjects of papers to write and she kind of just put them all in a hat, like strips of paper with a subject on it, put them in a hat. And everyone had to go around and pick one out and whatever you got, you had to write up a paper on.

• 57:40Danielle LaRock?

  And I picked the Oak Island mystery. And I had no idea what it was. And thus began my treasure hunting awakening.

• 57:53Danielle LaRock?

  Long story short, it's in, uh, up in Nova Scotia. And in, I think it was the 1700s, this kid exploring around, found this strange depression. And it's right on the water, uh, on the shoreline. He found a strange depression in the earth and. Fast forward to present day, there has been like maybe six or seven Discovery Channel seasons on finding what this treasure is about. People have died trying to look for it. It's been the longest running treasure hunt in the history of North America. And it is absolutely insane. There's lots to it. So.

• 58:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm in.

• 58:35Danielle LaRock?

  And I bought a book, obviously I went, because we went to, I'm like, we're so close, we gotta go. So we go to the site. It's off limits. You can't go near it, um, except for on special tours. And we got there on a day they weren't doing tours and they were also actively filming.

• 58:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh.

• 58:53Danielle LaRock?

  So.

• 58:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  For like a movie?

• 58:54Danielle LaRock?

  For, no, for like TV shows and specials and documentaries. This.

• 58:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Gotcha.

• 58:59Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So, but there was a memorial I got to see of the people who died, uh, trying to look for it. And yeah, it's, it's a crazy, crazy story.

• 59:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm intrigued.

• 59:09Danielle LaRock?

  I would love to know what is fucking under there. Me and everyone else in history. So. Um, yeah, that's my answer, but I'll tell you more about it maybe in a episode someday.

• 59:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Cool. I would love to learn more. Yeah. I think treasures, it's just so interesting and it's just so intriguing to, it adds another layer of exploration, which is fun. And if you can get rich doing it.

• 59:36Danielle LaRock?

  I know this one was more of just natural gold deposits and things like that.

• 59:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 59:42Danielle LaRock?

  But so many people used to bury their loot.

• 59:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Uh, yeah.

• 59:46Danielle LaRock?

  They're out there.

• 59:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  You could be walking over millions of dollars and you never, I mean, look at the Forrest Gump one. It was in Yellowstone National Park. Millions of people were not that far away from being multimillionaires and y'all missed out, including myself.

• 1:00:02Danielle LaRock?

  I didn't even know it was happening. So.

• 1:00:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Anyhow, it wasn't even that far. Like where he, where he buried it was not that far, hard to get to. So.

• 1:00:13Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And if you missed that episode that Cassie did in 20.

• 1:00:17Danielle LaRock?

  Twenty one or twenty twenty two.

• 1:00:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, just know there's been updates.

• 1:00:21Danielle LaRock?

  I think it was episode twenty four.

• 1:00:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, cuz when I did it, it had not been, the location had not been revealed yet. It had been found, but the location had not been revealed yet. Now we know that it was found in Yellowstone National Park at Forrest Fenn's favorite fishing spot there. But at the time of the episode recording, it had not been found yet.

• 1:00:42Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 1:00:45Danielle LaRock?

  Get back here so we can go do some treasure hunting.

• 1:00:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Some treasure hunting. I'm ready for, I'll do some treasure hunting. That would be fun.

• 1:00:53Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, great. Start training Amber how to like scent detect. Hmm.

• 1:00:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  She does track, like, she does animal track, so just out cuz she's a predator, but.

• 1:01:07Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, that's unhelpful for our operation, but.

• 1:01:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  But maybe I could teach her to sniff out other things.

• 1:01:12Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I'm thinking like, usually, you know what, if we're thinking traditional buried treasure, it's usually in like a wooden chest. So like the scent of like decaying wood or something like that.

• 1:01:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  And metal.

• 1:01:24Danielle LaRock?

  And metal, rusted metal.

• 1:01:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. And gold.

• 1:01:28Danielle LaRock?

  That's the way to do it. You gotta get, you gotta think outside the box. It's not just about you. It's what others can bring to the team and dogs can bring a lot.

• 1:01:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Sonic radar, radar.

• 1:01:39Danielle LaRock?

  We're purists. We're not using.

• 1:01:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Half of us are purists.

• 1:01:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  The other half is not.

• 1:01:47Danielle LaRock?

  All right. Well, everyone, please enjoy the view.

• 1:01:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Go watch your back.

• 1:01:51Danielle LaRock?

  Bye.

• 1:01:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bye.

• 1:01:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Thanks for joining us for another episode. We hope you learned something new and have another location to put on your list. If you want more NPAD content, make sure to follow along with our adventures on all socials at National Park After Dark. For more stories just like this one with the added bonus of exclusive content, you can join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. If you prefer to watch our episodes, head over to our YouTube channel. And if you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite listening platform.

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