The Pablo Escobar of Eggs: Matobo National Park

When Jefferey Lendrum was a boy, he loved birds. What began as a childhood passion volunteering for an ornithology program transformed into a life of wildlife crime - scaling cliffs to steal and then smuggle falcon eggs around the world. Despite multiple arrests, steep fines and various investigations - he just couldn’t quit. What motivated him? How did his dedication to birds turn to destruction? This is the story of the “Pablo Escobar of Falcon Eggs”. NEW MERCH AVAILABLE NOW! For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodesFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to the week’s partners! Soul: For 30% off your order, head to GetSoul.com and use code NPAD. PAKA: Head to go.pakaapparel.com/NPAD and use code NPAD to grab your PAKA hoodie and free pair of alpaca crew socksOllie: Take the online quiz and introduce Ollie to your pet. Visit https://ollie.com/npad today for 60% off your first box of meals! #ToKnowThemIsToLoveThemLiquid IV: Use our code NPAD at checkout to get 20% off your first order. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:02Danielle LaRock?

  Humans have always been fascinated by birds. We marvel at their feathers, their sing-song calls, and perhaps, most of all, their ability to fly. Leonardo da Vinci filled journals with detailed sketches of their wings, including pigeons and swallows, to try and understand how they do it. The Wright brothers carefully watched turkey vultures and seagulls to mimic how they turn their wings in air to stay afloat. But what happens when that fascination goes too far? In May of 2010, at the Birmingham Airport in central England, something was wrong. At least, that's what custodian John Straczynski was thinking.

• 1:43Danielle LaRock?

  He had arrived to clean the shower rooms in the Emirates Lounge, but a passenger had been in there for far too long. The man who was waiting for an afternoon flight to Dubai had entered the shower with several suitcases, which John thought was a bit strange. And as he waited for the man to wrap up, his impatience turned to curiosity. What could he be doing in there? When the man finally stepped out of the shower room, John went inside to find all of the towels neatly folded. There was no sign that the shower or sink had been used at all. Growing more suspicious, he looked in the trash for clues, but found nothing. He even climbed onto the sink and checked to see if he had hidden something in the ceiling panels, but nothing.

• 2:27Danielle LaRock?

  Finally, he checked the baby changing table, which had a trash bin of its own. And inside, he found a single egg. John didn't know that the man was a seasoned operative in a covert world of crime. He had no idea the man had a legal contraband strapped to his chest, concealed under his clothing, hidden from view. But with the sight of that one egg, coupled with the odd behavior, he knew enough to know that something wasn't right. And it wouldn't be long until it was revealed just how right John Strzynski would be.

• 3:03Danielle LaRock?

  Welcome to National Park After Dark.

• 3:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm so excited because, one, the first thing you said was about birds, and I like birds now, newly. But is this a bird-egg smuggling episode?

• 3:36Danielle LaRock?

  It sure is.

• 3:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  What in the... I'm so ready for this.

• 3:40Danielle LaRock?

  I know that, like, I had teased this to you just personally because I read a book that had to do... that inspired this whole thing, and we'll get into it. So I know that I was, like, kind of teasing you for a while about it. And surprise, it's today.

• 3:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm so stoked. I have never been more ready to hear a story. My life.

• 4:01Danielle LaRock?

  It's weird. Okay, it's well, hello, everyone. Welcome to National Park After Dark. My name's Danielle. I'm going to be telling you a egg smuggling story today.

• 4:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  And I'm Cassie and I like birds.

• 4:12Danielle LaRock?

  She loves birds. It's a newfound thing. And a lot of our audience are birders as well. Would you consider yourself a birder?

• 4:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think I'm a birder in training.

• 4:23Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 4:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Because I don't think I know enough about birds yet to be considered a real birder.

• 4:30Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, well, this is for all the bird lovers out there. It's definitely an interesting story and there's going to be a lot to talk about, especially towards the end. When we get into a little bit of discussion about this story, um, it has to do with wildlife crime. And that has always been really compelling for me personally. And I think when you say wildlife crime, your first thoughts may go to like the big names of like tiger parts and rhino horns and gall bear gall bladders and like kind of the big like pangolin stuff like, I don't know, I just feel like I just feel like people don't think of birds when they think of wildlife crime, but it's a huge facet

• 5:13Danielle LaRock?

  of, um, of this subject. So we're going to get into it.

• 5:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Cool.

• 5:18Danielle LaRock?

  Before we get into the episode, just a little bit of like housekeeping and announcement stuff. We have spooky season merch that is available today. Well, it came out a couple of days ago, but it's available now.

• 5:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, if you didn't hear the news, it's available now. Go check it out. We have spooky season merch. If you're watching. I have tie dye. This is the first time we've ever had tie dye on the merch. So that's really exciting. And we have some spooky, some spooky designs, which is very cool.

• 5:49Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So this is, we have a couple of new items. We, I mean, the tie dye is my personal favorite one. It's especially because of the colors. I love tie dye in general. I think you think of like bright and rainbow colors and like festival stuff. And this is just like, it's, it's black and orange and

• 6:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes.

• 6:07Danielle LaRock?

  creepy themed. I love it. And then the beanie. I like this beanie. I don't know if you can tell in the video. It's like a darker green. It kind of looks black in my video right now.

• 6:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, it's like a forest green.

• 6:18Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, it's a forest green. We have a pennant, which is really cool. That is like some fun decor type stuff. We have some favorites coming back, the You Got Haunted stuff. And this is a good opportunity real quick to address merch. Um, so this is a limited drop. However, we are working on something that will be a little bit more regular, which we can announce when it comes. But this in particular, you're gonna have, you know, a week or so to get it. So just if you want it, snag it while you can. And also, we get emails all the time, um, from people who are concerned for us and feel for us about

• 6:57Danielle LaRock?

  our cryptid campfire design being on other merchandise on other sites. And yes, it's very sad. However, we have tried our best. We've talked about this before, but we've tried our best with trying to mitigate that and control that. We've sought out legal help to try and do so, but the internet's the wild west and it's like playing whack a mole. If you try and take one down, five more pop up and it's just, it's really hard to control. Um, so the, we are very well aware that the design is out there, um, and being kind of ripped off uh, by other sellers and it's unfortunate and it's sad to see.

• 7:37Danielle LaRock?

  However, the only way to get it through us is through our merch site.

• 7:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, if you see it anywhere else, they just stole our design.

• 7:46Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So, I mean, it's been everywhere and we don't support Sheen. You know, you're never gonna see our merch sold by us on Sheen.

• 7:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, Walmart had it for a while. They might still, I don't know.

• 8:01Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 8:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's, it's messed up.

• 8:04Danielle LaRock?

  It is messed up. And we, we agree, it's a cool design, like.

• 8:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  We get to understand why you want it, but um, you're doing it the wrong way.

• 8:12Danielle LaRock?

  Um, so anyway, yeah, for any type of National Park After Dark merchandise that you may see, whether it's that or a different design in the future. If you see it circulating around, not specifically on our site or through us, it's not us. And thank you for sending that stuff in. We are aware of it. Um, but yeah, so we have merch. Get it while you can. We have other stuff cooking up, but for now, um, go get some tie dye.

• 8:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Get it.

• 8:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  All right. Well, let's jump into this story today.

• 8:44Danielle LaRock?

  So, right here, before we start, right up top, I want to shout out the primary source for today's episode, which I alluded to a few months back. Actually, I posted on my personal Instagram. I had four books. I couldn't decide which one I wanted to read next, just like for personal reading, just trying to get through my TBR list. And I asked my followers to vote on which book to read. And this one didn't win that poll, but I eventually got to it. And it's called The Falcon Thief. So for those few hundred people that voted for this one, now's your time to hear a condensed version of it. It's where a lot of the main story is going to come from today. And of course,

• 9:29Danielle LaRock?

  all the additional show notes and stuff are in the episode description if you are so inclined. And there is a documentary that we'll discuss at the end as well.

• 9:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Cool.

• 9:40Danielle LaRock?

  So I know I set you up a bit in that intro on kind of a little bit of a cliffhanger, and I promise we'll get back to that scene in the airport. But the story of who has become known as the Pablo Escobar of Falcon Eggs begins somewhere else entirely in Southern Africa at Matobo National Park.

• 9:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  The Pablo Escobar of bird eggs.

• 10:03Danielle LaRock?

  Falcon Eggs.

• 10:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  Of Falcon Eggs.

• 10:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 10:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm just picturing this guy off in the middle of wherever in a mansion that's heavily guarded, and he's got this room just full of eggs.

• 10:17Danielle LaRock?

  Well, you're not far off.

• 10:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 10:20Danielle LaRock?

  So going a bit into this national park, located in modern day Zimbabwe, Matobo National Park is a birder's paradise. Rising from dense woodlands, the park's granite mountains and towering rock formations are home to one of the highest concentrations of birds of prey anywhere on Earth, including African-crowned eagles, fish eagles, harrier hawks, rock kestrels, and many more. And back in the 1960s, when the country was still known as Rhodes The Rhodesian Ornithological Society launched an ambitious project to study black eagles, more formally known as Varroo eagles. And these birds have mostly jet black feathers with this white V on its back and white wing panels

• 11:04Danielle LaRock?

  visible in flight. They have these sharp, yellow gray beaks and really piercing eyes. They're absolutely beautiful. And they're actually the largest bird of prey in the Matobo Hills.

• 11:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Very cool.

• 11:16Danielle LaRock?

  They build nests high on granite cliffs, sometimes hundreds of feet off of the ground. And this is great because it makes it hard for predators like baboons to reach their eggs and to mess with the nests. But it also makes it really difficult to find them and access them for study, not only for monitoring eggs and clutches and things like that, but how they court one another, their, just their behavior and things like that because they're just so out of reach.

• 11:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  They're mysterious.

• 11:46Danielle LaRock?

  They are mysterious. But none of that deterred Valerie Gargette, a teacher turned ornithologist whose passion for birds earned her a reputation amongst friends as sort of like this Jane Goodall of the raptor world. She began repelling to black eagle nests, taking notes on their breeding patterns and getting so comfortable with the birds that they actually allowed her to reach in and weigh their eggs and study them and take notes. She organized a team of volunteers to follow eagle pairs during the nesting season, which was from January to April. To each team, she would give instructions that showed her affections for the birds and her conservation

• 12:26Danielle LaRock?

  philosophy. So it was pretty lengthy, but a quote from it says, "Do not stay at or near the nest for longer than five minutes to obtain the information. We are visitors to their world and respect their right to live undisturbed and uninfluenced by us." So she's like, "We need this information. It's valuable. We want to study them, but don't push it." And they take priority.

• 12:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. It's like, I know you might think they're cool, but we can't interfere.

• 12:52Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. But because of their hard to reach nesting sites and Just the location of where they chose to nest made it really difficult for volunteers to reach them, either due to volunteers' age or general fitness levels. So not many people could reach the nests to study them. But then, two new volunteers began to attend their general meetings. Eleven-year-old Jeffrey Lindrum and his father Adrian. Jeffrey was a polite kid, if a little unmotivated at school, but a natural-born athlete. His father Adrian was an HR manager for Dunlop Tires in Bulawayo, a town about 30 miles outside of Matobo National

• 13:33Danielle LaRock?

  Park. Both of them were really enthusiastic about the outdoors and clearly very interested in becoming involved in this project. Val and her husband Eric were thrilled to welcome the Lindrums into the group and were hopeful that they could monitor the least accessible nest sites. They taught Jeffrey how to safely rappel down cliff faces, practicing how to secure rope, tie the right knots, and maintain proper form. And because he was such a natural-born athlete, he did so well with this. He was just like, it was a natural fit. He learned very quickly, and in no time, he began helping with surveys, lowering himself hundreds of feet and perching

• 14:13Danielle LaRock?

  on a ledge mere inches wide to access remote nests. Over time, often, he would be joined by his childhood friend and fellow falcon enthusiast Howard Waller. Between Jeffrey's nimble climbing and his father's aptitude for research, Valerie began to trust the two with more and more responsibility. She put them in charge of surveying another bird of prey, the ogre buzzard, and they poured hundreds of hours into the project, locating 30 nests and writing reports about their courtship behavior. Next, they were entrusted with surveys of the African hawk eagle, which builds enormous stick nests in the forks of trees. Soon, they were scrambling up ficus and ironwood trees across the park to study them. Seems like a perfect situation for young

• 14:58Danielle LaRock?

  boys in particular. I mean, Jeffrey started when he was just 11 years old, and he's kind of growing up, spending his free time with his dad, exploring. A national park and getting to climb trees and explore and just like feel like he's part of this operation, you know, it's just like

• 15:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  This is how you raise cool kids.

• 15:17Danielle LaRock?

  Right.

• 15:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  You make them do stuff like this.

• 15:19Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, so he's climbing, exploring, and as time went on and Landrum grew older, what perhaps began as something he did as a kid because his dad signed him up for it initially, became a shared passion. All told, the Landrums went on to publish eighteen academic studies while working in Matobo, wrote articles for local bird magazines, and earned a place among Val's most trusted colleagues.

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• 16:17Danielle LaRock?

  But around this time, surveys across Matobo began to report empty nests. A snake eagle nest that had been monitored all season would turn up empty, leading Val and others to assume that a predator had eaten the eggs. Volunteers watched black eagles prepare to lay eggs, lining their stick nests with greenery, but the eggs would seemingly never come. In the decades surveys had been taking place in Matobo, this was unprecedented, and eventually, evidence started to point to it being an inside job. In late 1982, a park warden named Steve Edwards found an egg in a crowned eagle nest. And crowned eagles are one of the rarest

• 16:59Danielle LaRock?

  raptors in all of Africa, not just this national park. And only three mating pairs had ever been documented in history within the national park. So this was like a really big deal.

• 17:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mm hmm.

• 17:13Danielle LaRock?

  So. It was a nest that was being heavily monitored and just wanting to keep eyes on how things were progressing.

• 17:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  They picked the wrong nest to go unnoticed.

• 17:23Danielle LaRock?

  Well, overjoyed and knowing that they only laid two eggs per clutch, Edwards returned to the nests two days later. So again, he noticed it, told everyone, and everyone's keeping an eye on it. But on the way in to go check in on the eggs, he ran into a now 21-year-old Jeffrey Lindrum headed in the opposite direction.

• 17:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Jeffrey, Jeffrey's supposed to be raised cool. He's supposed to be cool.

• 17:48Danielle LaRock?

  He was raised cool, but.

• 17:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  He's supposed to turn into a cool adult.

• 17:52Danielle LaRock?

  Jeffrey.

• 17:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Jeffrey.

• 17:53Danielle LaRock?

  You're gonna be upset by the rest of this story. When asked if he had just visited the crowned eagle nest, Jeffrey said, yeah. He had told Edwards that there were two eggs in the nest, and since he had just been up there, he didn't have to worry about going and checking in on him. He's like, everything's Gucci over there. Don't worry about it. Everything is all well and good. Well, after Jeffrey left, Edwards climbed the tree anyways and found an empty nest. Val didn't want to believe that this father-son duo that she had mentored had betrayed her trust, because it's not just this one incident. Like I just said, there were different suspicious things popping up here and there.

• 18:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  And this is kind of like tying it all together, seeing, catching Jeffrey in the middle of it.

• 18:36Danielle LaRock?

  Yep. She didn't want to believe that they would desecrate the very nests that they were there to protect. But after Edwards' report, she began visiting the areas that Lindrum had surveyed and found too many empty nests to ignore. With Warden Edwards' help, they launched an investigation into both Jeffrey and Adrian. That following year, in October of 1983, local officials had a search warrant to raid their house. In a bedroom cabinet, they found an enormous collection of over 800 eggs, representing dozens of species meticulously organized as if it was a museum display. The eggs, gently resting on cotton, ranged from the most abundant birds in Africa, like the common bull bull,

• 19:20Danielle LaRock?

  a small brown songbird, to the most endangered. The Peregrine Falcon, the missing crowned eagle egg, and seven clutches belonging to black eagles.

• 19:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, this is, uh, this is reminding me of your episode that you did in, um, God, I'm forgetting the name of it. Indiana Mounds, was it that one? Where it was the park ranger who went in and stole all of the indigenous artifacts and had them in his garage.

• 19:48Danielle LaRock?

  Yes, it's not called Indiana Mounds, it's called Mounds is in there.

• 19:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mounds is in there.

• 19:54Danielle LaRock?

  Yes.

• 19:58Danielle LaRock?

  God, it was, that was in 2022. We did that episode. It'll come to me, but yes.

• 20:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  But he was doing it for preservation, but in his own egotistical, egotistical way, he thought he was preserving these. And it feels like this is a lot darker than that.

• 20:15Danielle LaRock?

  Well, you'll, that's, hang on to that thought because that's kind of like one of the topics I want to talk about towards the end of like that discussion of the kind of driving force and motivation behind not just the Lindrum father-son duo, but the many other people who have been egg collectors and kind of why they do it.

• 20:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 20:39Danielle LaRock?

  And each case is different and this one will have a little bit of, um, I think it might be a little clear. What, why Jeffrey decided to lean into this, but anyway, I think it has a similar, a similar tone of like they think they're doing something not good, but not harmful. Like who am I harming?

• 21:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know, the eggs that were supposed to hatch.

• 21:03Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, well, you would think it's obvious, but let me tell you, in that documentary, you will, uh, question people's ability to under, like, not understand.

• 21:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  I feel like I'm gonna be so riled up by this episode that as soon as we hang up from recording, I'm gonna go watch the documentary and be like, why?

• 21:25Danielle LaRock?

  Well, back to the Landrums and their houses being raided. There's eight hundred eggs in this collection.

• 21:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Not the peregrine falcons. The fastest bird in the world.

• 21:37Danielle LaRock?

  Well, so the officials, the wildlife officials are like, okay, so please explain what is this? And Adrian, the dad insisted that the eggs were just a mere schoolboy collection and that and that they hadn't done anything wrong.

• 21:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Eight hundred a mere collection? Okay.

• 21:57Danielle LaRock?

  Well, also, his own records proved otherwise. Fine point pen markings on the eggs and associated data cards tracked the exact nest that they were stolen from and on what date. After a closer look, the records in the collection lined up with the survey locations Val had assigned them.

• 22:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  They literally wrote down everything. They didn't even try to hide their tracks.

• 22:22Danielle LaRock?

  No, well, I mean, they wrote down everything, yeah. So this not only explained the missing eggs, but revealed much of the Landrum survey data, detailed status checks of the fledgling chicks spreading their wings and leaving the nest to be outright lies. Because they just fabricated. I mean, nobody hatched out of those eggs because they stole them, but yet their data.

• 22:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  And they were the only ones monitoring these. So they're like, yeah, the eggs did great. They hatched, flew away, population's thriving. But meanwhile.

• 22:50Danielle LaRock?

  Lies.

• 22:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  They're sitting in their closet.

• 22:52Danielle LaRock?

  Yep. In October of nineteen eighty-four, Adrian and Jeffrey Landrum were convicted of theft and illegal possession of specially protected wildlife. Adrian was also convicted of fraud. Their egg collection was confiscated and they each received a $2,500 fine, a four-month prison sentence that they could avoid by staying out of trouble for five years. Despite the harsh sentence, some believed that there was more to the story than the verdict revealed. Nearly all of the eggs in Landrum's collection had been emptied, meaning they'd had these little pinholes in the top and bottom of each egg that were used to blow out the embryo and keep them from rotting. But in the Landrum's refrigerator, in an open Tupperware, investigators also found.

• 23:35Danielle LaRock?

  Two live peregrine falcon eggs. So why were those kept viable? The leading theory starts with falconry, the art and sport of using trained birds to hunt other animals. Whether using hawks, falcons, or eagles, people have engaged in falconry for thousands of years. Across Europe in the Middle Ages, it became sort of a status symbol, the largest, rarest birds prized by kings and nobles. In the Middle East, where evidence suggests that falconry first emerged, it was practiced as a means of subsistence. The nomadic Bodoan people of the Arabian Desert used peregrine falcons to hunt birds and hares, supplementing a diet otherwise limited by their harsh environment. To capture

• 24:17Danielle LaRock?

  the fastest bird on earth, the Bodoan people developed ingenious techniques, including one where they tied a dozen small nooses woven from camel hair to the back of a pigeon. When peregrines passed overhead during their fall migration to Africa, the snare-covered pigeons would take flight, and any falcon who took the bait would get tangled up and tumble to the earth. So that's how they originally started capturing them to train them to use in falconry.

• 24:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  What an innovative way to try and catch them.

• 24:46Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 24:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Not condoning it by any means, but wow.

• 24:50Danielle LaRock?

  And this is like, I mean, we're talking, yeah, we're talking thousands of years ago.

• 24:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, you know, it's, it's a wild way to catch an animal, using another animal and a snare. Yeah, I've never even, I could have never thought of that. Yeah, genius.

• 25:04Danielle LaRock?

  As time went on, firearms replaced falconry across much of Europe, but the tradition remained a cultural fixture in the Middle East. By the 20th century, as the oil industry brought wealth and change to the region, falcons were adopted as iconography on various things. I mean, everything from their currency, different businesses like had their logos with falcons on them, and even countries had national emblems of falcons and pointing to most specifically the United Arab Emirates, or the UAE. Yet, at the same time, peregrine falcons and other birds of prey were in decline. Between the 1930s and 1970s, an estimated

• 25:45Danielle LaRock?

  Ninety percent of peregrines in the United States had died. Great Britain lost almost seventy-five percent during that same time. And it just reminds me of, um, like their symbols, they're kind of on everything. It's like they're, I don't want to say mascot because that's like such a not adequate term, but you know what I mean? It reminds me of the grizzly on the California state flag.

• 26:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, it's kind of like, what's it doing there? You guys eradicated them.

• 26:10Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, and it's just kind of like a, a symbol of what once thrived and is no longer. Um, so that's kind of the parallel I drew with that. But speaking of the decline, I had to sneak this in here a little bit. Call back. In her book Silent Spring, biologist Rachel Carson found a culprit.

• 26:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  I was wondering if she was gonna come up.

• 26:30Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, here she is. Yep, so in Silent Spring, biologist Rachel Carson found a culprit for this decline in DDT. A pesticide that when ingested by birds interferes with their ability to metabolize calcium. In birds of prey, where DDT concentrations were the highest, this caused brittle, thin-shelled eggs that broke in the nest before they could hatch. With growing awareness and urgency, nations rallied around efforts to ban DDT and introduced protections like the nineteen seventy-three Endangered Species Act here in the United States. And in the international world, CITES was a treaty that was put into place that same year, which outlawed the trade of one thousand two hundred protected species,

• 27:14Danielle LaRock?

  including several different birds of prey. And of course, if you want to know more about DDT and all, uh, how amazingly awful that was, Cassie, of course, just covered an, uh, episode entirely dedicated to that. I looked it up, episode two ninety-three, because I remembered the title, um, DDT.

• 27:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  So safe, you can eat it.

• 27:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  That was a real ad, that was a real advertisement. If you haven't listened to it, you can YouTube it, it's horrifying.

• 27:43Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, so episode two ninety-three, if you, uh, want more info on that. But anyway, so kind of going back to Falcon Run. And what that has to do with Lindrum and this whole topic. For the wealthy rulers of the UAE, falconry was a core part of the country's identity. As signatories of the Sides Treaty, they realized falconers were no longer able to capture their birds in the wild. Because of course, this treaty prohibited, you know, this endangered species. It's like, okay, we now have protections on birds of prey and peregrine falcons are are part of that. So in order to meet demand, they turned to captive breeding programs.

• 28:22Danielle LaRock?

  And important to our story in particular, remember Howard, Geoffrey Lindham's friend that would sometimes go out with him and do, um, probably steal eggs, um, but whatever, participating in these surveys. So Howard was breeding falcons in South Africa by the late eighties. And in 1988, he was invited to Dubai to start a captive breeding program for Sheikh Bhuti bin Juma al-Maktum, who was the cousin of Dubai's of Dubai's crown prince. So he's up there in the world of this already kind of prestigious realm of, um,

• 29:02Danielle LaRock?

  yeah, obviously, no one's not using falconry, especially, uh, the, some of the wealthiest people in the entire world. They're not doing it for subsistence hunting anymore.

• 29:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's a status symbol.

• 29:13Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 29:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  I mean, I can't lie, it'd be pretty cool to be sitting here right now. And I've just envisioning if I had my own owl, kind of like Harry Potter, and I have a window right next to me. Like if we were just recording and my owl came and like sat on my shoulder while we recorded. That would be a huge status symbol. I would look the coolest I've ever looked in my entire life.

• 29:34Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 29:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  So I get it.

• 29:35Danielle LaRock?

  And you would choose an owl?

• 29:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, an owl for sure. I think that they're so cool. And I think I would switch my owl. So I would have a snowy owl in the wintertime. And I would have a barred owl in the summertime.

• 29:48Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 29:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Just because they're around here and I see barred owls pretty often. And snowy owls do come to Vermont, but they're very rare. So I would have the rare snowy owl.

• 29:59Danielle LaRock?

  Which would make you even cooler.

• 30:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Exactly.

• 30:03Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I'm following. I'm picking up what you're putting down.

• 30:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  But as a person who knows that that is deeply wrong, you'll not see

• 30:09Danielle LaRock?

  You would never.

• 30:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  An owl on either of these shoulders.

• 30:12Danielle LaRock?

  And that is the only reason. She could, but she won't.

• 30:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  I really could. I feel like I would be an owl whisperer if I wanted to be. I could.

• 30:22Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, your vibes are, are good.

• 30:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 30:25Danielle LaRock?

  For owls, I think.

• 30:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, they would catch on to my vibes for sure.

• 30:28Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, well, going back to, I'm like, I don't even know how to segue out of it. I'm, I'm lost in it.

• 30:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's distracting.

• 30:37Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, it is distracting. Um, so, okay, going back to Howard Waller and his breeding program. It actually went on to become one of the most successful breeding programs of its kind, period. Not just in that location, but in the world. The expansive facility soon housed hundreds of birds with butchers on hand to prepare their daily meals and amenities to cater to their every need. For example, gir falcons, the largest falcons on earth, live in Arctic tundras where they can endure temperatures of up to negative fifty degrees Fahrenheit.

• 31:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow.

• 31:11Danielle LaRock?

  And Waller's multimillion dollar air-conditioned gymnasiums allowed them to survive in Dubai's one hundred and thirty degree summer heat. And if any bird got sick, they'd be whisked to Dubai's state-of-the-art Falcon Hospital, which boasted X-ray machines, antibiotics, and on-call intensive care veterinarians. The success of Waller's captive breeding program and others liked it helped falconry grow both in popularity and in scope. Two thousand and two saw the birth of Falcon Racing, a new sport where the birds take turns speeding down a four hundred meter course. First hosted by the royal family of Dubai, the event's success spawned a growing industry with more competitions and larger prizes.

• 31:53Danielle LaRock?

  The President's Cup, hosted annually in Abu Dhabi, has awarded prizes worth up to eleven million dollars for Falcon Racing.

• 32:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, that's why people get into it.

• 32:03Danielle LaRock?

  And just like racehorses, racing falcons are bred and sold to eager buyers. And I want you to, okay, so I'm gonna have you guess. Don't overshoot, be realistic, but just like, guess. So in two thousand and twenty-one, a pure white gir falcon chick sold at auction for how much, do you think? Like a little baby?

• 32:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  A little baby falcon, up to eleven million dollars in prizes if they win.

• 32:28Danielle LaRock?

  If they're like the champ of champs.

• 32:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  The champ of champs. Five hundred thousand.

• 32:32Danielle LaRock?

  Four hundred thousand.

• 32:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow.

• 32:35Danielle LaRock?

  Pretty close.

• 32:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 32:36Danielle LaRock?

  I mean, that's a ton.

• 32:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's a house.

• 32:37Danielle LaRock?

  For a small bird.

• 32:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  For a little bird. I mean, don't get me wrong. It's cute.

• 32:42Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, but houses are.

• 32:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  I would spend that on a house before I'd spend it on a baby bird that could just live outside where it's supposed to.

• 32:51Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, truly.

• 32:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Just leave it alone. Let it grow in nature.

• 32:58Danielle LaRock?

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• 33:39Danielle LaRock?

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• 34:19Danielle LaRock?

  Well, given the renewed demand for falcons, patrons of captive breeding programs began touting them as a conservation success story, making the case that their efforts are protecting globally threatened species by keeping wild birds at a safe distance from the falconry industry. But despite these successes, the black market for wild birds was thriving. Sacred falcons, native to Central Asia, were declared globally endangered in 2012 after years of known illegal trapping. Some smugglers moved the birds out of Russia over land borders with lax enforcement, and in other cases, falcons had been intercepted on planes, sedated, and hidden in suitcases. In the CITES database, which tracks smuggling by air, the leading destination for trafficked

• 35:04Danielle LaRock?

  birds is the UAE. This demand is driven in part by a persistent belief among some that wild born birds are inherently stronger and faster than birds that could ever be bred in captivity, no matter how amazing the facility and how high tech things are there. Like, they're basically just saying you can't really replicate the wild factor. And wild birds are always going to be better. But others point to breeding programs and without the influx of new birds, a captive population will become inbred, causing it to collapse over time. Bringing in wild caught birds can sustain the genetic integrity of the captive population.

• 35:44Danielle LaRock?

  And in turn, the breeding program can essentially cover up any sort of crime of smuggling in wild birds. DNA evidence has caught some breeders in the act of laundering wild birds through their facility, meaning passing them off to clients as legal captive bred birds. Efforts have increased internationally to crack down on this sophisticated market, but smuggling efforts have shifted too. Rather than moving adult falcons, which proves to be difficult, I mean, they're literally sedating entire birds and shoving them into suitcases and trying to smuggle them through airports and like, just instead of doing that, some realized it might be just much easier to smuggle their eggs. And so we're

• 36:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Which brings us to the airport bathroom with an egg in the trash.

• 36:33Danielle LaRock?

  Well, not quite yet, but back to our story for sure. So that brings us back to Jeffrey in particular. And after his conviction in Zimbabwe in 1984, he was ostracized by the birding community and banned from Matobo National Park.

• 36:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  As he should be.

• 36:48Danielle LaRock?

  Right. They're like, first of all, how dare you?

• 36:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  We gave you access to these creatures and we trusted you.

• 36:55Danielle LaRock?

  Yep. And so in turn, for a chance at a clean start, he decided to move to South Africa. Still in his early twenties at this point in time, he sought out several side hustles to make ends meet. The most successful Which involved selling spare parts for cars and planes as well as some mining equipment. Years passed, he married a woman from South Africa, and while it didn't last, the two stayed friends. And he swore during all this time that he had left Nest Raiding behind. Didn't touch it, wasn't involved. Lendrum had been in South Africa for over a decade when he met Paul Mullen. Mullen, a British businessman, worked for a company in Johannesburg, who was building infrastructure for the internet.

• 37:38Danielle LaRock?

  And by day, he advised the purchase of servers and telecommunications hardware. But in his free time, he followed F1 racing and James Bond. Mullen's girlfriend, who had once worked as a stripper in Johannesburg, had met Jeffrey at work. So essentially, his girlfriend, Mullen's girlfriend, was a stripper and Jeffrey was at the strip club and met her, and she introduced Jeffrey to her boyfriend, Mullen.

• 38:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  Gotcha.

• 38:04Danielle LaRock?

  And they became friends.

• 38:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Gotcha.

• 38:06Danielle LaRock?

  They quickly bonded over a shared love of safaris and fast cars. And they grew closer the following year, meeting up regularly for drinks and social events to race Jeffrey's Mini Cooper around a local racetrack. And then a year later, in 1999, Lendrum approached Mullen with a business idea. Always on the lookout for side hustles, he had taken notice of all the craft and curio shops in Johannesburg. And he asked Mullen, what if we could sell these handmade African crafts in the UK? Mullen replied, sure, let's give it a shot. So not long after, they opened up a shop in Southampton, just south of London, where Mullen had once lived and named it Africa Extreme.

• 38:50Danielle LaRock?

  All that was left to do was set out across southern Africa to find suppliers. The two would drive thousands of miles, visiting Zimbabwe, Lendrum's hometown of Bulawayo, and Victoria Falls to the northwest, a popular tourist destination. Doing their best to avoid cheap and mass-produced items, they bought artisan-made ebony walking sticks, wood-carved safari animals, traditional drums, and near-life-size carvings of giraffes, amongst many other things for their curio shop. Lendrum was at ease bargaining with traders as he learned to speak some ndubele as a boy, which is a Zulu-based official language in Zimbabwe, as well as a mix of English, Afrikaans, and Zulu spoken by miners and other workers.

• 39:32Danielle LaRock?

  As they traveled around Zimbabwe, Mullen began to see that there was more to Lendrum than his side hustles. On a visit to Matobo National Park, the very same park that he was once banned from entirely, albeit just for the year following his arrest.

• 39:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, they only banned him for one year?

• 39:49Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, just a year.

• 39:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's way too trusting.

• 39:54Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, well, I'm sure they regret that.

• 39:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, he's gonna go back. Okay.

• 40:01Danielle LaRock?

  No.

• 40:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Jeffrey.

• 40:04Danielle LaRock?

  So, the two of them are out on their recon mission of getting different stuff for their business, and they go to Matobo National Park. And Jeffrey absolutely amazed his friend with his encyclopedic knowledge of wildlife. He rattled off the scientific names for every single bird they saw. And I mean, like, every bird. And he describes them like, I mean, he said even when he saw a bird in, high in the sky, it's just like a dot to him. He knows the species and whether it was male or female, like, just full of knowledge about all the wildlife there, and particularly the birds, of course.

• 40:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  A birder using their powers for, against?

• 40:45Danielle LaRock?

  Good. For evil.

• 40:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's for, for evil, yeah. A birder using their powers for evil.

• 40:52Danielle LaRock?

  Yes, that's what this whole thing is sadly about.

• 40:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, the betrayal.

• 40:57Danielle LaRock?

  On one trip to Bulawayo, though, Mullen noticed something odd. In the chalet that they'd been staying in, cartons of hard-boiled eggs had appeared, suddenly. And the eggs clearly were dyed various colors. When he asked his friend what they were, Jeffrey plainly replied that he'd been collecting live raptor eggs from Matobo to sell to clients that he would not name. So he's like, oh yeah, I stole them.

• 41:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  No bacon.

• 41:22Danielle LaRock?

  He's like, what? And he was replacing the live eggs with hard boiled ones so that the birds might reject them and lay more so that he could go back and collect more. Apparently encouraged by Mullen's reaction, he also shared that he had plans to steal exotic eggs from birds of prey around the world, which he could then sell to Middle Eastern falconers. He even had a trip in mind, stealing gur falcons from the far north of Canada. So his friend basically didn't bat an eye at this plan. So he felt comfortable. Jeffrey basically said, you know, you seem down with this, so I'll tell you everything. You want in?

• 42:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  And then he said, yeah.

• 42:01Danielle LaRock?

  And he said, huh, hell yeah. So two years later, in the small Inuit village of Kujayak in northern Quebec, Jeffrey and Paul were both arrested. Fast forward. They were charged with illegal hunting and wild egg possession. The two had been caught after their helicopter pilot, Pete Duncan, saw through the cover story that they provided him. So basically Jeffrey and Paul had claimed to be documentarians for Nat Geo and that they just happened to be there to capture exclusive footage of gur falcons. A Kujayak native, Duncan had flown many, many different photographers. This isn't his first trip around the block.

• 42:41Danielle LaRock?

  And he had hosted people for years in search of everything in the high Arctic, like polar bears, other wildlife, actual documentarians. So he kind of knew the deal.

• 42:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  That they weren't the real thing.

• 42:55Danielle LaRock?

  Right. So when this, these two guys repeatedly asked him to be dropped off at certain locations and then picked up just an hour later and then moved to someone up, somewhere else and to be taken to all these different locations, he immediately was like, what are you doing? You know?

• 43:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 43:12Danielle LaRock?

  Usually I drop someone off, they're there all day or even for several days and then I'll come pick them back up.

• 43:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Especially if you're observing something. It doesn't take you an hour to observe wildlife.

• 43:23Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, you need more time.

• 43:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 43:25Danielle LaRock?

  He also noticed immediately that Mullen, who claimed to be the videographer of the, he was the Nat Geo videographer.

• 43:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Right.

• 43:34Danielle LaRock?

  Had no clue how to use his camera.

• 43:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like red flag.

• 43:38Danielle LaRock?

  No.

• 43:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  You work for Nat Geo and you don't know how to use a video camera.

• 43:42Danielle LaRock?

  Right. So immediately he knew that something was going on. He just didn't quite know what. By the end of the week, when, cause again, long story short, I'm trying to condense this because this book is actually really long. But essentially he tips off law enforcement, they arrest them. And when the police are raiding their hotel room, wildlife officials had already determined that they were stealing falcon eggs. So they weren't really surprised to find a portable incubator with seven eggs tucked right next to the bed. When questioned, the two men mostly stuck to their cover story. Mullen insisted he was there to film falcons. He's doubling down on the Nat Geo.

• 44:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know how they got there. Those aren't my eggs.

• 44:26Danielle LaRock?

  And they just, I mean, they feigned ignorance of the seven eggs in the incubator. Um, or Mullen did. But Lindrum explained, because he always has a reason, you'll come to find out. He explained that he had collected a few addled specimens, meaning, um, eggs that were no longer viable. Like they weren't going to hatch anyway, to test them for pesticide poisoning and plan to return, return them to the clutches the very next day. He's like, oh, those, I'm actually here for the greater good.

• 44:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, I am studying them because I care about these populations. How dare you?

• 45:02Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. How dare you?

• 45:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  The audacity.

• 45:04Danielle LaRock?

  Question my, um, my morals here. And again, back to the, like, kind of going back to when they first got him and his dad first got raided. And they had all this, like, evidence pointing to their actual motivating factors. A laptop was found in their hotel room and it revealed that this was the second year in a row that they had visited this area. It had receipts for their previous flights into Canada and the thirty. Thousand dollars they spent on chartering a helicopter. The laptop did not reveal that they had collected twenty seven eggs from the nineteen nests, or that they had called their whole affair Operation Chili.

• 45:47Danielle LaRock?

  And it also did not reveal Jeffrey's claim that each white gherfalcon egg would fetch between seventy and one hundred thousand dollars. However, all of that information would come out later.

• 45:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  They found a Google search that was like how to trick someone into thinking I'm a Nat Geo videographer.

• 46:05Danielle LaRock?

  How to use a camera.

• 46:15Danielle LaRock?

  For the time being, while law enforcement was sure that the two were part of a well financed smuggling operation, without indisputable evidence, like for example, being caught boarding a plane with eggs, like kind of caught red handed. Canadian wildlife officials couldn't charge the two with trafficking. Instead, they pled guilty to their charges of illegal hunting and egg possession, and paid the highest fine allowed under the Canadian, under Canadian law, which was seven thousand two hundred and fifty dollars.

• 46:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Which is dimes on what they're actually making off of these things.

• 46:47Danielle LaRock?

  I mean, if it's true, if his calculations of, or his estimates of what a single egg would fetch, you know, that's a drop in the bucket. To them, they're like, hey, whatever.

• 46:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, sure, I'll pay that. Just don't ban me from being here.

• 47:02Danielle LaRock?

  Well, after being released from custody, they were warned against ever returning to Canada.

• 47:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, that's good.

• 47:07Danielle LaRock?

  So.

• 47:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  Canada doesn't mess around. As soon as you have any type of charge on you, they're like, you're not welcome here.

• 47:13Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, yeah, no. Don't even think about coming here.

• 47:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 47:17Danielle LaRock?

  Mullen, who maintained he was there for Nat Geo reasons, and a bit of an adventure, was shaken by the entire ordeal. And within weeks, he legally changed his name. He's like, that was really close and I'm scared and I don't want anything to do with this anymore. But for Jeffrey, this series of events would become a pattern he would follow for the next twenty years.

• 47:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  He did this for twenty more years without being caught.

• 47:46Danielle LaRock?

  Well, he would get caught trying straighten out and then fall back on nest raiding when things got tough.

• 47:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Do we ever find Jeffrey's villain origin story? Like what turned him? What changed him from learning? What changed him from being inspired by his dad to see these beautiful things to becoming the villain that's destroying all these things he knows so much about?

• 48:08Danielle LaRock?

  No, so it's interesting because it's interesting because people speculate kind of like what flipped that switch and why he decided to do this. Of course, and we, I already mentioned it a little bit, but at the end I will as well. You know, there are, there's some talk about these wealthy buyers, Middle Eastern buyers that he is doing this for and which would seem to point that money, money is a big motivator for him. But even there are some circumstances where it's like even when he was financially good, he kept doing it. So his friends and family kind of point to it being more of like an adrenaline thing

• 48:49Danielle LaRock?

  and a thing of like, he's really good at it and he just has this obsession with doing it. And he's not alone. Like this story is primarily about him, but the documentary I watched, it's called Poached. If you're interested, um, it's, I rented it on Amazon Prime, but I think it's on a couple of other platforms and it's a, how do I say this? It's more of a low budget film, documentary film.

• 49:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  Gotcha.

• 49:14Danielle LaRock?

  But it is extremely interesting and it goes into, it actually interviews four different egg collectors or previously convicted egg collectors and kind of gets into their minds of why they did what they did, how they did it. And there's interviews with different wildlife officials that are on task forces that help combat wildlife trafficking and trade. And it's all based in the UK. Like it's huge in the UK.

• 49:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  So interesting.

• 49:46Danielle LaRock?

  And they even said, they're like, we're not even sure like what it is about. This area, but this is just like such a big hotspot for egg collectors. And then they go into all these different areas where it's this really cool kind of combination of volunteer birders who have a passion for birder, for birds and teaming up with wildlife officials and law enforcement to monitor all these different protected areas for these egg collectors who come in and they do everything. They go in, they'll be like, oh, I'm just here with my girlfriend, or I'm here with my kid, or I'm just here like fishing or taking a walk or whatever.

• 50:26Danielle LaRock?

  But they're sneakily trying to find different nesting locations and they're scoping things out. And they're literally, so there's these birders, like people who are retired and just would be out watching birds anyway, that have dedicated their time and energy. And a lot of money from different organizations as well go into this of just protecting like certain areas of nesting sites against these people who are just lurking and like circling like sharks, ready to come and steal eggs.

• 50:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  That'll be me when I'm retired.

• 51:00Danielle LaRock?

  Yes. Like, oh, if you're interested, and I'm sure like the US in some places have operations like this that you could like become a part of, but in the UK it's huge.

• 51:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's so, I'm so intrigued of why, why the UK. But also, I don't know, the UK was really big on like bird plume feathers and stuff too. So maybe they just have a bird obsession.

• 51:25Danielle LaRock?

  And it's literally all for, and they say it in the documentary, even some, one of the previous, like they always say, oh, I'm reformed. Like I swear, I don't do this anymore. Like the documentary does kind of a good job of like kind of painting them and editing him in the light of like, we're not sure if we believe this dude.

• 51:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 51:45Danielle LaRock?

  He's actually not doing this anymore. But they'll just be like, you know, going through all this. And I mean, people, they're like, we've had friends die, like rappelling off cliffs to try and get, like I watched somebody fall to their death and like. People die doing this.

• 52:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  To try and steal eggs.

• 52:03Danielle LaRock?

  Just to put them, I mean, and they blow them out. So they'll, um, and it's, it's awful because if there are even any sort of development in there, there's different ways to test if they're starting to develop into a chick. They'll essentially, uh, remove those chicks in a really awful way and suck them out of the egg. And all just to put them in a glass case and in a drawer somewhere.

• 52:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  And then never just look at them occasionally and yeah.

• 52:32Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. Which reminded me of, because this Lindrum is more kind of like, we're thinking he's doing a lot of this to sell for, to the UAE, to buyers that want to, who, who want birds eventually. To use in falconry and different things like that, not just for the egg.

• 52:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's so interesting because I recently went to a falconry and when I was there, I found out that they get them from breeders who specifically breed birds to live in captivity to be at falconeries. And I'm just thinking of this whole thing. I'm like, is this the same thing? Just sanctioned, like, is this, like, is this a similar way that they're getting their birds? And I don't know, I have no idea where they get their birds from, but they did say that they're raised in captivity and they get them from breeders. And that was kind of a red flag for me because breeding places can be really sketchy in anything. But I would hope that they would be using someone reputable, but I don't even know about that because I still don't agree with that.

• 53:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  But, um, it's just reminding me of that. Like if it's the same vein where he is now smuggling eggs. So then they can be bred for these types of facilities.

• 53:43Danielle LaRock?

  Well, it's just, it's interesting because like he's kind of in that lane. But then in poached, they were really focusing more on just like private collectors for eggs. And it reminded me a lot of the dinosaur episode that you did about fossil collecting. And just for collectors to just have, just in their private homes for no other reason.

• 54:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Leonardo DiCaprio just has a shit ton, millions of dollars worth of dinosaur bones for his private collection.

• 54:15Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, it's just.

• 54:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  And his girlfriend's under twenty five.

• 54:19Danielle LaRock?

  Well, that's another conversation that so upsets me. Uh, cause I'm out of the running. I've aged out of the bracket.

• 54:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  You have aged out.

• 54:26Danielle LaRock?

  But, and you know, there's another conversation about that that we've had exhaustively on that episode, but those animals are no longer living. Like these, you're having a detrimental impact on very real populations of animals by doing this. And they completely, at least in the documentary and even in this book, like they give reasons of like, they're like, no, I love birds. I, I'm doing it out of a place of love. I just love them so much. I want a piece of them. And like, what I'm doing is not, I mean, they're in tears in the, in the documentary about how much they love bird. And this guy even takes his kid to this like museum where there's a bunch of taxidermied animals and all these eggs

• 55:11Danielle LaRock?

  and stuff. And he shows his kid, like he's the seven year old child, like, look what they used to do to all these animals. And the kid starts crying and he even says, he's like, I'm seven. Like this is

• 55:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm seven. Why are you showing me this? That's really sad. I don't know. If you love a species so much, why don't you collect their already hatched eggs and meticulously glue them back together? I don't know. It's just like, why are you helping destroy a species that you love because you want it to sit on your, your counter?

• 55:43Danielle LaRock?

  Right.

• 55:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Get a, get binoculars and go sit outside, touch some grass, hang out.

• 55:49Danielle LaRock?

  Well, I mean, they do have binoculars and they do have a lot of gear. I mean, they're climbing, extensive climbing. And I mean, they're doing a lot to get out here, but it's so much effort to, to destroy the thing you quote unquote, love. Yep.

• 56:10Danielle LaRock?

  So going back to Jeffrey, he repeats his pattern for 20 years in different way, shapes and forms, but essentially he'll go out, he'll get caught, straighten out, et cetera. And some close to him wondered if stealing eggs was more about the money, like we had just talked about and had now transformed into some sort. Of addiction, maybe. I don't know. It's hard to say.

• 56:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like, once you start shoplifting, you can't stop.

• 56:38Danielle LaRock?

  It's like a compulsion.

• 56:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Compulsion. Like, you just have to do it.

• 56:41Danielle LaRock?

  Especially because he's so good at it and whatever. And maybe they they were like, well, maybe it's just giving him this source of like this rush of satisfaction or adrenaline or whatever that he can't replicate in his day to day, normal life.

• 56:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Maybe this is the only way he can find himself to be able to get out into the world the way he wants to be. Climbing and into these beautiful landscapes and seeing these birds that he loves. He can't find a better way to do it.

• 57:09Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I don't know. Well, and that's the question. People are like, what is happening here?

• 57:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 57:13Danielle LaRock?

  You know, like, we're trying to figure this out. But regardless, in any case, weeks after his Canada arrest, Lindrum married his latest girlfriend and settled down in her home in England. And then for the next seven years, he continued to run Africa Extreme, later renamed African Art Incurios. Mullin, who'd served as Lindrum's best man under his new name, because remember, he changed his name because he was really scared. Yeah. He left the business in two thousand and three for financial reasons. And on his own, Lindrum struggled to keep things afloat in the business, borrowing money from family until he was forced to close the business in two thousand and eight. In the months that followed, Lindrum's relationship with his wife and friendship with Mullin would both implode.

• 57:54Danielle LaRock?

  Mullin's South African girlfriend, who lived with him in England with their infant daughter, returned to Johannesburg on vacation. And while she was there, she started a relationship with Jeffrey, who had since drifted apart from his own wife.

• 58:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Jeffrey.

• 58:10Danielle LaRock?

  And to make matters worse, Jeffrey, okay, so Jeffrey, during a custody battle between Mullin and his girlfriend over their daughter, Lindrum sided with the girlfriend. Like, his best friend, who was his best man at his wedding, who was his business partner, and for years, just been so close. He's like, actually, I'm now with your girl. And I agree with her, and she should get to keep your kid.

• 58:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm the father now.

• 58:42Danielle LaRock?

  Oh my God, it's so bad.

• 58:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh my God, Jeffrey's such a villain. He's such a villain. He can't be trusted in his relationships and he can't be trusted with wildlife.

• 58:52Danielle LaRock?

  Yep, and I included that because it is kind of an aside to the whole birding thing, but it just kind of goes to show.

• 58:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  His character.

• 59:00Danielle LaRock?

  His character, right? So in a short window of time, Lindrum's marriage fell apart, he lost his business, and he ended his closest friendship. And around the same time, volunteers monitoring peregrine nests in South Wales started to notice missing eggs.

• 59:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  I said not peregrine.

• 59:22Danielle LaRock?

  Between 2007 and 2010, they had recorded a growing list of disappearances and many missing from areas only accessible to someone with highly technical repelling skills. And now, here we are at the beginning in May of 2010, 100 miles away in the Birmingham Airport. A sharp-eyed custodian noticed Jeffrey was up to something. So now we are back into the bathroom. After spending 20 minutes in the shower room of the lounge, the custodian discovered a single egg in the waste bin and called security. Before he could board his flight to Dubai, counterterrorism agents pulled Jeffrey aside for questioning,

• 1:00:03Danielle LaRock?

  only to discover 14 live peregrine eggs strapped to his body. Secured by an array of white surgical tape, woolen socks, and zip ties, the eggs were close enough to his body to not arouse any suspicion. If you were just like looking at him, you wouldn't notice there was like

• 1:00:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  He just like, like overweight or something?

• 1:00:24Danielle LaRock?

  He just, well, they were really close to his chest and the, the eggs are on the smaller side. Um, but he did it, you know, obviously to conceal them, but also to keep them warm.

• 1:00:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:33Danielle LaRock?

  Right. Okay. You're gonna fucking love this.

• 1:00:37Danielle LaRock?

  You're gonna, you're gonna love this.

• 1:00:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 1:00:39Danielle LaRock?

  When he was asked about.

• 1:00:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  No.

• 1:00:41Danielle LaRock?

  Hey, what the hell are these?

• 1:00:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  No.

• 1:00:44Danielle LaRock?

  What's all this?

• 1:00:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Now what, Jeffrey?

• 1:00:46Danielle LaRock?

  Jeffrey replied that they were duck eggs and provided an elaborate explanation as to why they were strapped to his torso. He said a physiotherapist had consulted him about a spinal problem and recommended he wear fragile objects around his body. Wearing eggs, he explained, forced him to keep his muscles active, which would strengthen his back. So that's why they're there. And they're ducks, not peregrine falcons.

• 1:01:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  What?

• 1:01:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  What? Who prescribes that?

• 1:01:25Danielle LaRock?

  Well, to have that like on hand as an explanation as well is insane.

• 1:01:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  About it. He thought about it hard before that. If I get caught, I'm gonna come up with, why, what?

• 1:01:38Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, so the team.

• 1:01:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  And they believed him.

• 1:01:43Danielle LaRock?

  They're like, oh, that makes sense. Carry on.

• 1:01:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Get on the plane.

• 1:01:46Danielle LaRock?

  They're like, my mistake. Totally makes sense.

• 1:01:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Didn't mean to just start beating you and your ducks.

• 1:01:53Danielle LaRock?

  So the team at the airport called Andy McWilliam, an investigator with England's National Wildlife Crime Unit. Based on their physical description and coloration, McWilliam believed that the eggs belonged to peregrine falcons and requested Jeffrey be detained until they could build a case against him. Unlike Jeffrey's Canada arrest, McWilliam had evidence of Lendrum's intent to traffic the eggs, seeing as he was about to board a flight to Dubai. Because remember, they're like, before in Canada, he had all this stuff, but he wasn't really caught in the act of.

• 1:02:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Leaving.

• 1:02:26Danielle LaRock?

  Do it.

• 1:02:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  With those things.

• 1:02:28Danielle LaRock?

  Trafficking them.

• 1:02:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:29Danielle LaRock?

  So now he's like, oh, gotcha, bitch.

• 1:02:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:32Danielle LaRock?

  Gotcha. You know that Kanye West? Gotcha. You don't know.

• 1:02:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Kind of. Not really.

• 1:02:40Danielle LaRock?

  You're by alien. I've told you this.

• 1:02:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 1:02:43Danielle LaRock?

  However, he had limited proof that Jeffrey was a career criminal outside of the climbing equipment and incubator they had found in his car. And that is until this guy just can't with the evidence that just points to exactly what he's doing.

• 1:02:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  Did he have a journal that detailed exactly what he is doing?

• 1:03:03Danielle LaRock?

  No, even better. He had a DVD in his carry-on bag that had footage of him doing.

• 1:03:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's not me. How'd that get in there?

• 1:03:13Danielle LaRock?

  Who is that?

• 1:03:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  Who is framing me?

• 1:03:15Danielle LaRock?

  So on this DVD was footage that Paul Mullen kept, remember the Nat Geo videographer, captured during their first trip to Canada while masquerading as the Nat Geo documentarians. In the footage, McWilliams saw the view from their helicopter, Jeffrey suspended by rope beneath said helicopter and dangling hundreds of feet above open water, and he was completely calm. A distressed female gur falcon circled overhead as he collected the four eggs within her nest and placed them in a cooler bag. Successful, the pilot flew back to solid land and lowered Lindrum onto the tundra. In another clip, the helicopter pilot, who

• 1:03:56Danielle LaRock?

  happened to be a childhood friend of Jeffrey's, smiled to the camera, stating, "Look at us. We're fucking criminals."

• 1:04:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  Straight to jail. Straight to jail.

• 1:04:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Show the jury that clip.

• 1:04:12Danielle LaRock?

  I know. It's like, and what else do you need?

• 1:04:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, all right, case closed.

• 1:04:18Danielle LaRock?

  Thank you, everyone, for being here. I think we've seen all we need to see. And let's get them locked up.

• 1:04:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Please.

• 1:04:27Danielle LaRock?

  In addition to the DVD, McWilliams also found documents describing scouting missions across the world detailing military presence near nests in Sri Lanka and airport security in Dubai. It was immediately clear to McWilliams that Lindrum was not only a professional, but a very well-financed one. So how in the world? Was he affording all of these expeditions? He would soon get some insight into that question through Paul Mullen, Lendrum's former friend. Mullen saw coverage of the arrest in the news and still bitter about their broken friendship, called the police to volunteer as a witness.

• 1:05:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes.

• 1:05:04Danielle LaRock?

  He would later say karma's a bitch.

• 1:05:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Sure is. Good for him. I would be just as salty and just as petty. I feel like I joined him one time. Here, let me detail everything we did.

• 1:05:17Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  For our full immunity, of course.

• 1:05:19Danielle LaRock?

  Well, he does spill the beans and he tells law enforcement that Jeffrey told him that in order to fund the trip to Kudryak, he sold his house in England, but Paul knew he didn't have a house in England. He's like, okay, whatever he's telling you is false. I actually know the truth. And later, he said Jeffrey went to Dubai to meet with his boyhood friend, Howard Waller, who now ran a falcon breeding program. But Mullen claimed Waller offered to finance nest raiding expeditions and that Lendrum returned from Dubai with over a hundred thousand dollars in cash. So he's like, they're both lying to you. Things are amiss here. In turn, Howard Waller, when confronted about this claim, said it was all a lie.

• 1:06:03Danielle LaRock?

  Waller said he repeatedly tried to dissuade Lendrum from egg collecting, but because of their childhood connection, the blame always landed on him. He told the author of The Falcon Thief, quote, "There's nothing I can do about that. I can't change my childhood. What I can say is that we took different paths. My path was falconry and breeding falcons and his path was collecting eggs. It's always been a thrill for Jeff. He likes to beat the system." When McWilliam pressed Lendrum for knowledge of clients in the Middle East, he claimed to have no idea what he was talking about, saying that this trip to Wales was a one-off and that he was rescuing the peregrine eggs from pigeon fanciers.

• 1:06:44Danielle LaRock?

  McWilliam assumed he was playing dumb because he was eager to return to business after his release. So it's like you're already changing your story. At first you said they were duck eggs and now you're saying, okay, they are peregrine. eggs, but I swear I'm doing it to protect them.

• 1:07:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm saving them by flying them to Dubai.

• 1:07:03Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, so it's already it's For nearly four months, McWilliam built a case against Jeffrey as a confident and capable veteran criminal. On August 19th, in a room filled with media hungry for news about this Pablo Escobar of Falcon Eggs, an outwardly remorseful Lindrum pled guilty to the charges. One count of theft of a protected species and one count of attempting to export a protected species. He was sentenced to 30 months of imprisonment, a severe punishment that the judge declared was intended to deter others from following in his footsteps. McWilliam glanced over at Lindrum, who he'd seen fearlessly swaying from a helicopter 700 feet above the water and there sat that same man

• 1:07:47Danielle LaRock?

  on a bench, completely stunned. But however severe the punishment, the pattern of Jeffrey's life seemed doomed to repeat. After serving out his sentence in England, which would later be reduced to 18 months with parole due to good behavior, Jeffrey returned to South Africa. In late 2011, his brother Richard tried to help him out by offering him a meager job at his magazine, The African Hunting Gazette. In this position, Jeffrey would help verify the claims of different hunting lodges in the area. He would travel to evaluate the big game, the amenities that they offered and any services that they advertised. But after only two years, readers of this magazine discovered Jeffrey's criminal past and they were pissed.

• 1:08:30Danielle LaRock?

  They were like, okay, so within this respected publication, you have a convicted wildlife smuggler on staff. Like, what the hell?

• 1:08:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  That is recommending these safaris to go on for us that are supposed to be protecting and reputable and advocating for wildlife.

• 1:08:51Danielle LaRock?

  Right, so that was um a difficult, that put his brother in a really difficult spot. Because of course he wanted to help his brother, but this was his business and people were upset. So he made the decision to let his brother go from his Position and soon after he lost contact with him entirely. It really fractured their relationship. The next time Jeffrey resurfaces is in two thousand and fifteen in Punta Arenas, the southernmost city in Chile. Nicholas Fernandez, a part-time receptionist at the Hotel Plaza, discovered a strange bag a customer had left behind. It contained climbing gear and what an internet search soon revealed to be an incubator.

• 1:09:33Danielle LaRock?

  As Fernandez tried to determine what the bag might have been used for, Lindrum happened to call the hotel. He said, oh, hey, yeah, I, uh, I left a bag there during my stay last year. And I was hoping I could retrieve it when I come back in a couple of months. Is it still there? And can I book a room? Fernandez promptly searched Lindrum's name online because that's a very strange set of circumstances. He's like, who is this guy and what is going on? And he discovered what that bag was for. He consulted with hotel management and local police and they said, yeah, let, let him come. Let's fricking trap this guy, you know?

• 1:10:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  Let's see what he's up to. What's he trying to pull here in Chile?

• 1:10:17Danielle LaRock?

  Yep. So they allowed him to come and essentially set a trap for him. After his stay, which turned out to be a trip plundering the nests of the pallid peregrine, a falcon only found in Patagonia. Authorities intercepted him at the airport in Brazil. Found with four eggs stored casually in an incubator in his carry-on bag. He insisted, under oath to a judge, that he was just a bird watcher and he intended to save the eggs after finding their mother dead nearby. He was sentenced to four and a half years in prison and fined ten thousand five hundred dollars. The harshest sentence possible under Brazil's wildlife laws, but was released on bail pending an appeal.

• 1:10:59Danielle LaRock?

  In Jeffrey's telling, he soon pulled off a daring escape. He traveled for hours to the southern edge of Brazil and with only the food and water he could carry, he snuck through the jungle for nearly a day, past border guards and into Argentina. His Brazilian lawyer, Rodrigo Tome,

• 1:11:17Danielle LaRock?

  doubted his version of this story because I guess he had so Jeff had been hospitalized in the days prior to this alleged grand escape because he got I forget the species of spider, but he essentially got bit by a spider and his leg like blew up and he could barely walk.

• 1:11:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 1:11:34Danielle LaRock?

  Um, and he almost died, like his heart almost stopped and he was hospitalized for days over this thing. He's like, there is no frigging way.

• 1:11:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  You trekked across the jungle?

• 1:11:44Danielle LaRock?

  No, he's like, honestly, like in that area of Brazil, the border control is really lax between Brazil and Argentina. No one was like on it like, yeah, he was in trouble, but he didn't have like his face plastered in every border.

• 1:11:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  So he probably just drove through.

• 1:12:00Danielle LaRock?

  He literally just said, he could have just taken a bus. So there it is again. He's like lying and uh, whatever.

• 1:12:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's it's just to inflate his own ego.

• 1:12:08Danielle LaRock?

  Yep. And six months later, Jeffrey reemerges in South Africa. So he frigging.

• 1:12:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  He totally escapes then.

• 1:12:16Danielle LaRock?

  Yes.

• 1:12:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Escapes. Jeffrey, you're an interesting dude, but man, you're a villain. You're such a villain.

• 1:12:23Danielle LaRock?

  I know. And I know this is going on for a while, but I swear we are almost done. At this point, Lendrum's life seems to be catching up to him. Each of his missions had gotten sloppier and now the Brazilian government was demanding his extradition. He is now in his 50s, holed up in Petroya. Any money he had made, he had spent. He and his girlfriend, Paul's ex-girlfriend, um, had split.

• 1:12:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, you really chose a winner for her. Like you left your man for this guy.

• 1:12:52Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. By 2017, he'd been diagnosed with prostate cancer and shortly after got into a serious car accident that left him with nerve damage. He continued to defend his actions to journalists as attempts to save or study birds. Like he is dying on this hill. He told friends and family that he planned to write a memoir, but that he feared the danger he'd be in if he exposed his affluent clientele in the Middle East. And yet in June of 2018, he was arrested once more, this time in London's Heathrow Airport. The eggs collected across South Africa were hidden in a custom-made belt under his clothes. Yet he suspiciously chose to wear a thick winter coat in the middle of an awful heat wave. In the courtroom, he insisted he rescued

• 1:13:37Danielle LaRock?

  the eggs from deforestation. Like.

• 1:13:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Come on, we can just Google your name at this point.

• 1:13:43Danielle LaRock?

  Yep.

• 1:13:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  And know exactly what you're doing.

• 1:13:45Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, and it's like this, your excuses don't even match up. Like, what are you doing? The judge handed him a sentence of thirty seven months of imprisonment. Only counting Jeffrey's five arrests, he was caught smuggling nearly fifty wild eggs. Roughly half of those died after being removed from their nests. The remaining eggs hatched and the chicks survived. Many were reintroduced into the wild, thanks to the efforts of nonprofits and government agencies that support raptor conservation. In the United States and in national parks, wildlife crime takes many forms. Deer illegally hunted in Yosemite, bird wings and salamanders stolen from petrified forests, black bears killed for their gall bladders in Shenandoah.

• 1:14:29Danielle LaRock?

  And as Landrum's tale reveals, combating wildlife crime takes persistence and plenty of evidence. For that reason, when illegal wildlife remains are seized in the US, they're often housed in the National Wildlife Property Repository in Colorado. Run by the US Fish and Wildlife Service, this center secures confiscated wildlife products for use as evidence in different court cases, as well as education and conservation efforts. But wrapping up with Jeffrey and why he did it, of course, that is a question we could ponder forever. But it's clear that in another lifetime, someone as gifted at climbing and ornithology as he was, could have found enormous success in the field of wildlife conservation

• 1:15:11Danielle LaRock?

  and possibly done a hell of a lot of good for the birds he was so clearly passionate about. Yet his passion in this life seemed to be warped by other desires, adrenaline, obsession, and greed. In his latest and as of now, final arrest, some friends speculated he got caught on purpose. Sick, broke, and struggling in the outside world, he might have thought jail could provide free food and healthcare. Perhaps he longed to break the pattern of his life. In two thousand and seventeen, court records revealed he changed his name to John Smith.

• 1:15:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow.

• 1:15:45Danielle LaRock?

  And maybe-

• 1:15:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  What an original choice.

• 1:15:47Danielle LaRock?

  I mean, he's like, I really want to blend in. I don't know what better name to do it with. And maybe that was an attempt to start over, perhaps to live a life unburdened by the mistakes of his past, or maybe he just hoped to escape suspicion on his next heist. But at this point, we do not know because Lindrum was released on parole in 2020 and has not been in the headlines since. So what Jeffrey Lindrum, AKA John Smith, is up to right now, we do not know. And as of this recording, obviously, August 2025. But that is the story of Jeffrey Lindrum and his weird fascination with stealing eggs.

• 1:16:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Wow. I hope Jeffrey, if you're listening, I hope that you have changed and you're using your powers for good because you sound like you're extremely intelligent and knowledgeable about birds. But man, you should be in jail still. You really, people should take wildlife crimes so much more serious than they do. I think he should have been put in jail for life after like his third time.

• 1:16:52Danielle LaRock?

  If he got caught and didn't evade, captured in whatever way via bus or through the jungle, whatever. I mean, they were going to put him away for a long time.

• 1:17:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  But only four years, right?

• 1:17:04Danielle LaRock?

  I mean.

• 1:17:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  A long, much longer in comparison, but still not.

• 1:17:09Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  I mean, he.

• 1:17:10Danielle LaRock?

  It just seems exhausting.

• 1:17:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, what's up with you, man?

• 1:17:13Danielle LaRock?

  I was exhausted telling that story. I'm like, okay, again.

• 1:17:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Try therapy.

• 1:17:17Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, yeah, and again.

• 1:17:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  You know, like something, something's wrong there. I just, yeah, especially because it was clear he was never going to change. And that's where it gets hard.

• 1:17:28Danielle LaRock?

  Well, and that's how exactly like to wrap this up, you know, with the recommendations of The Falcon Thief, that book, but also the documentary Poached, you'll see it's just like these, there's something going on with why these people are doing what they're doing. And they know it's not right, but they, it's, it's like this compulsion.

• 1:17:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:47Danielle LaRock?

  And.

• 1:17:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  I can't understand it because I'm not, I don't get it, but people are interesting.

• 1:17:53Danielle LaRock?

  It's bad, bad, bad, bad.

• 1:17:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bad, bad, bad. Yeah.

• 1:17:56Danielle LaRock?

  Ba ba ba.

• 1:17:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bad, bad, bad for birds.

• 1:17:59Danielle LaRock?

  What is that song? Uh, oh, I'm thinking ba-ba-ba-bird, bird is the word. Ba-ba-burn, burn is the word.

• 1:18:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, we are in.

• 1:18:09Danielle LaRock?

  I'm on two different pages here with you. I thought you were trying to do bad to the moon.

• 1:18:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, ba ba ba ba bad on the day I was born.

• 1:18:18Danielle LaRock?

  And that's all the time we have.

• 1:18:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Day.

• 1:18:21Danielle LaRock?

  Thank you so much for listening to National Park After Dark. This is why we don't record at night.

• 1:18:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, it is getting really late. All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for tuning in. Enjoy the view.

• 1:18:32Danielle LaRock?

  But watch your back.

• 1:18:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bye.

• 1:18:34Danielle LaRock?

  Bye. Thank you for joining us again this week. If you love National Park After Dark and want to hear exclusive bonus stories, join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Patreon subscribers have access to our National Park After Dark Book Club, live streams, Discord, and much more. If you prefer to watch our episodes, video episodes are now available on YouTube. If you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite listening platform. And to follow along with all our adventures, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and X at National Park After Dark.

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