Trail Tales 73

Today’s stories include small town legends, embarrassing young canoodling, haunted cheese factories, Hidebehinds and visits from the great beyond. Outsiders Only bonus stories available for Patreon and Apple Subscribers! Listen to Watch Her Cook on Apple and Spotify! Follow us on InstagramFor a full list of our sources, visit npadpodcast.com/episodesFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at:Instagram: @nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to the week’s partners! Harvest Hosts: For 20% off your order, head to HarvestHosts.com and use code NPAD. Fay Nutrition: Listeners of National Park After Dark can qualify to see a registered dietitian for as little as $0 by visiting FayNutrition.com/NPAD. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:27Speaker 01

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• 1:17Danielle LaRock?

  Hello everyone and welcome back to National Park After Dark Trail Tales Edition.

• 1:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm Cassie.

• 1:23Danielle LaRock?

  And I'm Danielle and we have six stories for you today.

• 1:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  We sure do.

• 1:27Danielle LaRock?

  Eight if you're special.

• 1:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Eight if you're an outsider on either Apple subscriptions or Patreon, which we do a lot of extra bonus content and we do bonus monthly stories. And if you're on Patreon, we have live streams, book clubs.

• 1:41Danielle LaRock?

  You name it.

• 1:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  You name it. Exclusive, exclusive access to some of our trips. It's a great place to be.

• 1:47Danielle LaRock?

  Just saying. But okay, um, this was a good, I will just shout out our audience. You guys have been giving really good stories lately. Good variety and ones that are just like really capturing my attention. So you're getting creative. So would you like to go first?

• 2:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  I would because the title of mine is really interesting.

• 2:10Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. What did I say? I'm like, they're doing really good.

• 2:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. So the title of my first one is Family Lore: How My Family Accidentally Started A Bear Attack Legend.

• 2:20Danielle LaRock?

  Go for it.

• 2:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's family lore right there. Hi, guys. I wanted to start by saying how much I appreciate your podcast. Like so many other listeners, apparently, I'm in the car alone for work a lot. It gets pretty boring and lonely, but listening to you guys makes me feel like I have some other nature-loving friends along for the drive with me. I honestly can't remember what episode it was, but in the end, you asked us to write in stories about family lore. It immediately reminded me of my family's claim to fame in my hometown. It's actually mostly my mom's story. I was there, but I was also just a little kid. Most of this I've heard secondhand from her, up until recently, when it gets brought up in conversation with people who have heard the rumor. To say my mom was always an avid hiker would be an understatement. You guys would actually love her.

• 3:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  She went to college for environmental science in order to fulfill her dream of becoming a forest ranger. Instead, she worked as a wilderness expert at two different boarding schools that required expeditions to graduate. She has hiked the entire Appalachian Trail and as well as many months-long camping trips in Everglades National Park, the bush of northern Quebec, and multiple other parks across the country, all while having to control large groups of unruly teens. She is pretty much the coolest person ever. This part was pretty much unrelated, but I never turned down an opportunity to brag about my mom. I told her about your podcast, knowing she would be totally into it, so she is now completely caught up. Listening to NPAD is a whole family event for us.

• 3:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  After having kids, she got a new job that didn't require her to travel, but that never stopped her need to be out in the woods. Every day, she would bring my little sister and I, along with our two big fluffy dogs, out on a hike. We used to go to this one specific hiking trail all the time due to its proximity to our house. The trailhead was literally our neighbor, so like normal people, walk their dogs around the block every day. Ours got taken on this hike. The trail was long and not in the best condition, but led to a beautiful, quiet lake. This particular area was also known for black bear sightings. Now, mind you, we never saw a bear. We literally did this hike every single day for years and never even caught a glimpse of one. But that didn't stop my family from becoming the source of a local bear attack legend that has

• 4:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  lived on in the town of Chester, Connecticut since the nineties. At the time, my little sister was still only a couple of years old, so my mom carried her in a backpack while we hiked. We had gone up into the woods like we normally did, but this time we pushed on farther down the trail past the lake. It was a special day because my dad had actually agreed to come on our hike with us. I remember just turning the bend to continue the trail from our normal stopping spot, when my dad smacked at his arm and announced that he had been stung by a bee. Seconds later, I felt the same sting on my leg and before we knew it, a whole swarm of bees had surrounded us. We must have stepped on an underground yellow jacket hive. Without any other thought, my whole family took off running back in the other direction.

• 5:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  My dad scooped me up to be able to help us move faster while my little sister bounced along on my mom's back. We all got stung, dogs included, multiple times. Once we got home, my mom noticed my little sister's shoe had fallen off somewhere, but we didn't think much of it. It was a little suede booty with fringe, very boho looking. None of us condone leaving belongings in the woods, but somebody had strung it up on a tree branch that was too high for any of us to reach. Over the years, it had grown green and fuzzy with mold and moss and looked ancient, like it had always been there. We would always point it out and laugh about how crazy we must have all looked running down the trail that day. Years later, we moved to a new house and hadn't hiked at that trail so much since we didn't live right next door anymore,

• 5:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  and whoever maintained it before had since stopped. It was also impossible to find. One day, my mom ran into an old neighbor at the store. She told him how much she missed the house and that she hadn't been able to get out to the trail much since moving away. The neighbor responded, "Oh, I won't go hiking out there. Too many bears." "A bunch of years ago, bears got a baby on that trail and her shoe is still hanging in a tree. I've seen it myself. A bunch of my buddies won't go there anymore either because it's just so sad and creepy." My mom couldn't hold back her laughter as she told him, "That's my daughter's shoe." But she wasn't eaten by bears. We stepped on an underground beehive and lost her shoe as we were running away. This wasn't the only time that the fabled infant bear victim

• 6:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  has been brought up to our family. And every time we're met with scrutiny when we explain the real story. Every few years, somebody will bring up the reservoir trail with the baby shoe hanging from the tree and its gruesome backstory. And we get to have the pleasure of watching their eyes grow wide when we explain that the shoe belongs to my sister, who is very much alive. Just a couple of years ago, now over 25 years since the incident and the shoe long gone, a customer brought it up to me while I was bartending at a restaurant in Chester. If you grew up in a small town, you know how some legends just never die, but they certainly do transform. I wish I had a picture of the shoe for you guys. If I ever find one, I promise I'll send it in because it's really

• 7:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  is an ominous looking, even if you actually know what happened. So instead, please enjoy this picture of my lovely mother sitting on her cross country van on the way home from the Everglades in 1981. She's the one on the left. Thank you again for all your work you put into the podcast and for companionship during my daily car rides, Natalie.

• 7:39Danielle LaRock?

  Love it.

• 7:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  So funny.

• 7:42Danielle LaRock?

  And now I've been inspired for a new request.

• 7:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  What's that?

• 7:47Danielle LaRock?

  Small town legends.

• 7:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 7:50Danielle LaRock?

  Like what's your small town legend or like the legend you grew up hearing about your area growing up?

• 7:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay, so can be true, maybe true, maybe not true.

• 7:58Danielle LaRock?

  Probably not true, but true in the sense that you legitimately heard it growing up and it was like part of the fabric of your town or community or area. Whether or not it's factual or not, does I don't care about that.

• 8:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay. Do you have a small town legend?

• 8:14Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know.

• 8:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm trying to think if I, there must be something. This isn't a legend in my town, but maybe is a legend for people visiting my town. And I just think of this because I remember when I brought my college friends to my hometown for the first time and they were just like terrified. So in my town, every year, I forget what month it takes place, but there's a, in all of our downtown, they do. Whimsical people where basically people stuff and create fake people and strew them around town. And they have different outfits on and some of them have faces, some of them don't. And it's been, I don't know where the tradition.

• 8:53Danielle LaRock?

  Scarecrows?

• 8:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Kind of, um, but they call them whimsical people because they're supposed to be an art installation kind of thing. I actually don't know the story behind why this started. But for an outsider coming into town, I apparently, I've, I've known it my whole life. So I never thought anything about it, but my friends, when I was bringing them in town for the first time, they're like, where do you live? What is this? Like, it was very culty for them. And I remember one, when you first went into town, someone had created their art installation or whatever it was. They actually did, um, death. And so when you came into town, there was like just this whimsical whimsical person, just in a black trench coat

• 9:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  with one of the staffs with the, what are those called? Yeah, the scythe. And they were like, where are you taking us right now? And then they have them at the stoplight on the corner of all the, in front of the library, you know, they're just all over town. And I would imagine that some people who don't know the area and have driven there like accidentally just to get to the gas station or coffee or something off the highway. Like what creepy town are we in? Yeah.

• 10:09Danielle LaRock?

  It kind of reminds me of like the town in, um, From where it's just like, where are we? Have you seen it? I think I told you actually not to watch it.

• 10:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  I watched a couple of episodes. It's the one where they get stuck in the town and then they drive a car, but they're back in. Yeah. It could give vibes from From for sure.

• 10:29Danielle LaRock?

  Like scary.

• 10:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  For me, I don't think it's scary at all, but for people, but I've seen them literally since I was five years old.

• 10:37Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So it's kind of, you're desensitized, I think.

• 10:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 10:41Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. I don't know. I'll have to circle back with something like that for my town. Cause I'm sure, I'm sure it exists. I just, was I saying this on the podcast or in a conversation? I don't remember, but that's the point. I legit can't remember anything. Like I feel like I have short-term memory loss. Weren't we just talking about this?

• 11:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 11:01Danielle LaRock?

  I've forgotten what context, but.

• 11:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's funny because I talk to my mom's partner a lot and he has pretty good memory, but he will always be like, God, I'm getting old. I can't remember it. I'm like, you are way more with it than me and you're in your seventies. So.

• 11:16Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 11:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's not looking good for me.

• 11:18Danielle LaRock?

  No, if this is an indication of what's to come, I'm not even going to remember that. You probably.

• 11:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's really sad. I hope you remember me.

• 11:26Danielle LaRock?

  I know. Me too.

• 11:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  We spend every second of our days together, pretty much.

• 11:30Danielle LaRock?

  I know. Like, I'll probably remember your face, but just not what we talk about.

• 11:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's fair.

• 11:35Danielle LaRock?

  But yeah, that's a different concern.

• 11:40Speaker 04

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• 12:10Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, my first story is titled Haunted Cheese Factory versus Teenage Girls.

• 12:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, okay.

• 12:18Danielle LaRock?

  Hi, Danielle and Cassie. My name is Amy and I'm a longtime loyal fan of the pod. I drive a lot for work, so you two are basically my road trip soulmates. I've laughed with you, cried with you, grieved with you, and said, oh, wow, that's so interesting, more times than I can count. You don't know me, but I feel like you're my honorary besties. Is that weird? Probably, but still true. I seriously hope I get the chance to meet you one day, maybe on one of your trips or at a live show. You're both such hilarious, thoughtful, lovely humans. Also, shameless plug, please come to Salt Lake for a show or honestly, anywhere in Utah. We need your energy out here. I can also show, yeah, Utah, our energy should be in a lot of

• 12:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  We love Utah.

• 12:57Danielle LaRock?

  We do.

• 12:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Sign us up.

• 12:59Danielle LaRock?

  Or honestly, oh no, wait, I just said that. Again, I'm forgetting. Look it, it's in happening in real time. Um, I can also show you around. Okay. Anyway, onto my story. This one's a little spooky tale set in a freaky as frick abandoned factory. But first, we need some backstory to set the scene. It's a bit of a long ride, but I promise it's worth it. I've changed the names of everyone involved, so feel free to share them. I live in Salt Lake, but I grew up in northern Utah in a small agricultural town called Logan. It's a stunning valley best known for its endless outdoor recreation, a local university, and a truly impressive cow to human ratio matched only by its abundance of dairy and cheese factories. This story takes place near my

• 13:40Danielle LaRock?

  middle school, which for some reason was almost 30 minutes from where I lived, but less than 10 from the Idaho border. Does that make sense? Not really, but then again, not much in Logan does. Just north of the school across the border is where Napoleon Dynamite was filmed. And having lived nearby, I can confirm that movie is actually a docudrama, no matter what the locals say.

• 14:05Danielle LaRock?

  The school itself was surrounded by alfalfa fields and cozied up next to a meatpacking plant. The valley runs on cows and the daily aroma drifting from the plant really made you appreciate the fresh in fresh air. Just north of the school were a few abandoned factories adding to the rural charm, or at least the post-apocalyptic vibe. Anyway, now that you've got a sense of the setting, let's get into it. Honestly, I appreciate all the descriptors here, but you could have just said where Napoleon Dynamite was filmed and I got it.

• 14:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  I haven't seen that movie in so long, but something came up in my newsfeed that they're making a second one. And that the main actor was only paid like a dollar or something for that entire role.

• 14:47Danielle LaRock?

  That actually doesn't super surprise me, but I I'm disappointed they're making a second one. I don't like the whole remakes of thing. Like the Mean Girls thing, the second Mean Girls.

• 14:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:58Danielle LaRock?

  Or remake.

• 14:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't think I saw it.

• 15:00Danielle LaRock?

  I didn't either because it's a musical and I refuse. Okay. When I was 14, my girl gang and I were the perfect mix of innocent, loyal, and absolutely feral. We had no common sense, but were wildly happy and probably the envy of everyone at school. We had been given the name The Beasties, eight of us total, and somehow that name stuck. Even now, most of us are in our 30s and some of The Beasties have tiny beasties of their own.

• 15:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's cute.

• 15:27Danielle LaRock?

  We were straight A students in the art of doing dumb shit without ever getting caught, hurt, or importantly, dead. Drugs, alcohol, and boys weren't really on the radar. Okay, maybe boys were a little, but mostly we were out climbing literal mountains without telling anyone or having sleepovers on trampolines when we knew there was a mountain lion out and about. You know, normal beastie things. We were obsessed with all things spooky. So naturally, when we heard the old abandoned cheese factory near our school was haunted, we just had to investigate. It was a Friday. We told our parents we were going to the school lacrosse game, which was only a partial lie. I got home geared up for my first ghost hunt and stared at the flashlight on my dresser. It was broad daylight, so I left it. That

• 16:10Danielle LaRock?

  decision may have saved our lives. Four of us met at the bus stop. Katie, Andrea, Riley, and me. Andrea and Riley had airsoft guns stuffed in their sweatpants for safety because nothing says tactical readiness like petite blondes with plastic pistols.

• 16:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Love it.

• 16:27Danielle LaRock?

  This is just like, I've never experienced anything like this, but I feel nostalgic. Like, I haven't done this exact thing, but I feel like I was there. We rode the bus nearly to Idaho, then started to walk towards the factory. As we approached the looming smokestack, I got a sick feeling in my gut. The factory had been bricked up tight, an obvious warning sign, but we kept circling it, looking for a way in. I tried to convince them that we could take pictures around the outside with my trusty neon blue Coolpix camera. It was 2009 after all, but they were dead set on going in. Eventually, we found a section where bricks were crumbling just enough to crawl through. Katie and Andrea

• 17:07Danielle LaRock?

  went in first. Riley and I hesitated, both of us frozen, hearts racing. We shouted for them to come back, but the sound of rushing water from a natural spring inside drowned us out. So we did the only thing we could do. We followed them inside. The room was pitch black. I couldn't see my own hand in front of my face. We felt our way along the wall until it opened into a massive, shadowy factory floor. I caught one quick glimpse, a cavern of space, old equipment barely lit by The shafts of daylight when Riley suddenly turned to me and whispered, get out, get out, get out. We didn't hesitate. Just as we had gotten back outside, Andrea and Katie reappeared. Andrea looked freaked. Riley and Andrea both said that they had seen something, a face,

• 17:52Danielle LaRock?

  maybe graffiti or maybe something else, but neither of them wanted to talk about it. I hadn't seen it and honestly, I didn't want to. Katie, ever the chaotic optimist, wanted to go back in. She and Andrea had seen stairs, but they were too dangerous to climb without a flashlight. And thank God, I didn't bring mine. The universe said no, and we finally convinced Katie to stop calling her neighborhood contacts for flashlights. As we headed back, we stopped at a loading dock with a garage door cracked open just enough to peek inside. We pressed our faces to the opening, spotting paint cans and dusty junk. And then we heard it. Furniture scraping across the floor, labored breathing, and something moving in the shadows coming closer. My body chose flight,

• 18:35Danielle LaRock?

  and I sprinted like my life depended on it. Katie was close behind. Andrea dragged a frozen Riley away, and the four of us bolted for the road. Breathless, shaken, we regrouped. And Katie, dear sweet Katie, had the audacity to say, we should go back in and figure out what that was. But before she could finish that thought, we heard a single scream, loud, inhuman, blood curdling. It echoed from the depths of the factory, and that was the moment even Katie stopped arguing. We walked straight to the lacrosse game, where we pretended to be normal teens and took a deeply edited photo of our shoes. Andrea used Picnic, may it rest in peace. What is that?

• 19:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's nostalgic. Oh, you never use Picnic?

• 19:19Danielle LaRock?

  No, I've never even heard of it.

• 19:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was a website. This was before filters, like, you know, like, filters on Snapchat and stuff existed. This was, you went on Picnic, you could add whatever, like, edits you wanted, like, kind of filtery things on it, but also they had all these stickers that you could put all over your pictures. So you could do like peace sign. I have, I have some.

• 19:44Danielle LaRock?

  You have some picnic edited?

• 19:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  I do. I definitely do.

• 19:48Danielle LaRock?

  It's funny because the, the picture of the shoes, it's like, that's a, that's an experience every early 2000s, uh, girlie has had, I guess. For some reason. I don't know why.

• 20:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's coming back.

• 20:03Danielle LaRock?

  That photo is the only evidence that day even happened. I deleted the rest in a post-trauma panic, which I now deeply regret. And I'll attach the photo. We called my seventeen-year-old sister for a ride like the reckless idiots we were. She called us idiots too, deserved. We never told our parents the full story, but I will say this. If curiosity killed the cat, the beasties got really, really lucky. The next day, a friend of ours who lived near the factory found out what we'd done and immediately freaked. He told us later that same night, the place was swarming with cops. I never found out if that was true or what exactly happened. Again, there's a type, legend. That's a small-town legend.

• 20:44Danielle LaRock?

  Nothing ever happened to me after that day, but a few of the other girls had some pretty unsettling paranormal experiences. One had full-on night terrors for months. As Cassie would say, you got haunted.

• 20:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  I would say that.

• 20:58Danielle LaRock?

  You have, you infamously have said that.

• 21:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 21:01Danielle LaRock?

  They only ever told me their haunting experiences once, and I've never asked again. Some stories sit better in silence. While I have zero desire to ever go back to that cursed cheese factory, I do wish I could go back to being a feral beastie for just a day or two. Just to feel that reckless joy again. I'm still in touch with most of them, and I truly treasure their friendship and the borderline illegal amount of memories we made together. And finally, thank you not just for being wildly entertaining, but for building this amazing community, educating on topics that matter, and for all your earnest work in protecting our wild places. You two are doing important, meaningful stuff, and I'll keep shouting out NPAD to literally anyone who'll listen. And remember, enjoy the view, but don't go into abandoned structures.

• 21:46Danielle LaRock?

  You never know what could follow you home. With love and appreciation, Amy.

• 21:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  Love that story.

• 21:52Danielle LaRock?

  I think it just kind of hearkens back to what I've always said about exploring abandoned places. And it's, I'm really afraid of actual living.

• 22:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  People.

• 22:03Danielle LaRock?

  Humans.

• 22:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. And to choose to go to this abandoned building at night.

• 22:08Danielle LaRock?

  It's the day. It was the day.

• 22:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  I thought they needed flashlights.

• 22:11Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, when they were, because inside was all boarded up and dark. But it was still daylight, the daylight was like streaming in. And then they went to the Little Cross game later.

• 22:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 22:21Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. But still.

• 22:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Less reckless, but still. I'm not an abandoned, same thing, just worry. I mean, we were at an abandoned house recently up in Acadia and it's my family's.

• 22:36Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, my God, yeah.

• 22:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  And we wouldn't go inside. We were like, we don't know if there's someone in there.

• 22:42Danielle LaRock?

  I stayed in the car. I was like, I'll call nine one one when you disappear.

• 22:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I looked in the windows and stuff, but I didn't go inside. Yeah, no. Like, I don't think anyone's here, but if there is, I don't want to disturb them.

• 22:57Danielle LaRock?

  I do understand the the split of like really wanting to explore something, but also being afraid and fearing for your safety.

• 23:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 23:06Danielle LaRock?

  Like, I get that. Like, I just always fall back on, I'm scared.

• 23:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think I would be less scared with a large group of people, but if it was like me and you, be like, no.

• 23:17Danielle LaRock?

  Especially when we're, I don't know, seventeen or whenever.

• 23:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  When I was seventeen, I might have done it.

• 23:22Danielle LaRock?

  I was ballsier when I was seventeen.

• 23:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 23:24Danielle LaRock?

  All around braver, stronger.

• 23:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yep, same.

• 23:32Danielle LaRock?

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• 24:12Danielle LaRock?

  To get your new wireless plan for fifteen bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com/NPAD. That's mintmobile.com/NPAD. Cut your wireless bill to fifteen bucks a month at mintmobile.com/NPAD. Limited time offer. Upfront payment of forty five dollars for three month, ninety dollars for six month, or one hundred and eighty for twelve month plan required. Fifteen dollar per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than fifty gigabyte may slow when network is busy. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com.

• 24:52Danielle LaRock?

  It's your turn.

• 24:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  It is my turn.

• 24:55Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 24:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Would you like to hear a story?

• 24:57Danielle LaRock?

  I would.

• 24:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay, mine is titled, embarrassing young canoodling in Porcupine Mountains Wilderness State Park. Oh, God. I think we've all had some embarrassing young canoodling. If I could like go back and see myself in like certain moments in time when I was a teenager, I know.

• 25:15Danielle LaRock?

  The embarrassment.

• 25:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  He's so embarrassed. Like, girl, what?

• 25:18Danielle LaRock?

  Get it together.

• 25:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  Stop.

• 25:23Danielle LaRock?

  Please.

• 25:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Please, don't.

• 25:25Danielle LaRock?

  I'm begging you.

• 25:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  You're embarrassing us. The thought of anyone hearing this and recognizing it as being me makes me cringe, but I'm working on not giving a fuck. So here we go. We're right there with you.

• 25:38Danielle LaRock?

  This energy is, I'm loving.

• 25:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  We're already here with you, yeah. My sophomore year of high school, two thousand and thirteen-ish, I did a summer trip through a college in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan to backpack the Porkies with a group of students by age. This was my first experience backpacking. I was the only girl student of five, along with our guide, a nice-ish older woman, and our medic. Nice-ish. I had the time of my life and fell in love with being in the outdoors on a level I hadn't before. I didn't feel weird being the only girl because I considered myself a bit of a tomboy. And while plagued with crippling anxiety, just general ignorant young person anxiety, I also had and still have the brute stubbornness to prove myself as an equal to any boy. We all bonded and got to know each other well.

• 26:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  I learned the boys I was with were all just big nerds who loved the outdoors. We would stay up late around the campfire and chat, learning about one another. This is where it gets juicy. One of our last nights, it came up that one of the boys had never kissed anyone before. Looking back, I'd be surprised if the others had. Shade intended.

• 26:43Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 26:45Danielle LaRock?

  Shots fired.

• 26:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Shots fired. One of the other boys said, you gonna give him his first kiss, to which I gave a sassy, no. Later that night, No First Kiss Boy and I were off brushing our teeth together. We were the only two who actually did brush our teeth that entire trip, which is slightly appalling. Dental hygiene is very important, fam. So true. No First Kiss Boy. I love how that's their name in this story. No First Kiss Boy.

• 27:11Danielle LaRock?

  Well, that's how they probably remember him forever. Like she. You know how everyone gets nicknames when you first either start seeing them or they just like, like that this person probably doesn't have a name to her. It's just.

• 27:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's just No First Kiss.

• 27:26Danielle LaRock?

  No First Kiss Boy.

• 27:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. No First Kiss Boy was really sweet and I had grown really fond of him. I wanted to give him his first kiss, but not in front of those other weenies. After thorough mouth cleansing in the dark moonlit woods away from everyone else, I said to him, do you still want your first kiss?

• 27:45Danielle LaRock?

  Oh.

• 27:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  So sultry. I know.

• 27:46Danielle LaRock?

  I was.

• 27:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Making the first move. We ended up making out, but our fatal mistake was neither of us were kiss experienced, experienced in kissing. We both went to bed and I felt like such a little baddie being this dude's secret sexy wilderness woman that made out with him in the woods. The next morning, I woke up in my tent and looked at myself in the small mirror that I had brought. To my absolute horror, I had hickies.

• 28:12Danielle LaRock?

  No.

• 28:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Not just a few small ones. It looked like I had been motherfucking strangled by someone's lips. Like seriously, my neck was covered in large, deep, purple and red spots. I panicked. I had no makeup with me, obviously, and decided my only option was to put on my hoodie, hood up and wear my nasty tangled disheveled hair down around my neck. We hiked the few hours back to our ride that morning. I was so sweaty in that hoodie, but I would have rather died than taken it off. Back at the college, I was able to steal some of my temporary roomies makeup to cover my neck in time for my dad to pick me up. I cringe less now thinking about this than I used to, but I still feel secondhand embarrassment

• 28:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  for my younger self. Do I regret it? No. I am a sexy wilderness woman and so are you too. Keep it up. Your podcast is such a gift and you are so appreciated and loved. Thank you for what you do. Live, fuck it, share my name.

• 29:16Danielle LaRock?

  This is the energy I need from everyone.

• 29:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes.

• 29:20Danielle LaRock?

  Like, that is the type of embarrassing story I want to hear.

• 29:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like, poop is great.

• 29:25Danielle LaRock?

  It's like, great, but this is like, it's just so relatable. Cause I feel like, oh my god, hickies. Oh, I, okay, I never understood that, like, I was very quick to shut down hickies before they happened. Because it's like, why the fuck are you just sucking on my neck? Like, just latching on like a leech and just sucking. Like, I do something else with your mouth on other parts of my body. You know what I mean? Especially when you're like seventeen and it's like.

• 29:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know.

• 29:58Danielle LaRock?

  I have the if, I have the fucking if.

• 30:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  I was, I'm with Liv, I was embarrassing and I definitely, definitely had some hickies in my day.

• 30:08Danielle LaRock?

  Did you give hickies, though? Were you a hickey giver?

• 30:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes.

• 30:11Danielle LaRock?

  Cassie.

• 30:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes. Embarrassing.

• 30:16Danielle LaRock?

  I know that, like, some people love, like, opposite end of the spectrum here, instead of like hiding them and being, I know this was like a different set of circumstances, but I remember certain girls in high school, like, walking around and like, kind of showing them off.

• 30:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 30:32Danielle LaRock?

  I have, I got hickies last night, like, that, I couldn't be less jealous of that.

• 30:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  I remember, and this is in college, but I remember this guy who was one of my friends, he came like, running to my room and he, he had gotten a hickey the night before. He had hooked up with someone in college and his parents were surprising him and they texted or called him like, minutes before that. And he had no idea and he had this awful hickey and he's like, please help me. So I remember I like got out all my makeup and I'm like, trying to, you know, if you put green over red and then you put like makeup over it.

• 31:08Danielle LaRock?

  Like color.

• 31:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, and so I did a pretty decent job, but you could still see it. So I never, I don't remember if they noticed it or not, but I wouldn't be surprised because it was big.

• 31:19Danielle LaRock?

  And remember when people would try and like, kind of. Explain it a way of like, oh, it's my straightener burned me.

• 31:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, my god.

• 31:27Danielle LaRock?

  Girl, I know the difference between a burn and a bruise.

• 31:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Oh, my god. This actually gives me, this is not my hickey story, but it is a friend of mine's hickey story. And we're, we're good now. We're friends and everything. But in high school, she, I dated someone, we broke up. And then she dated that same person and she didn't want me to know for a while. And I dated this person for like a month. They dated for like seven years, like water under the bridge, doesn't matter. But when she first started dating him, she didn't want me to know. And she showed up at school the next day with hickies all over her neck. And she had them, she didn't hide them at all. But I remember she told everyone in my class

• 32:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  to tell me that it was this girl that was her friend who did it.

• 32:16Danielle LaRock?

  And, okay.

• 32:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  But everyone told me that she was telling everyone to tell me that and who actually did it. And I'll always remember like going to school that day. I'm like, do you think I'm stupid?

• 32:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, it's clear, like, I already knew you guys were dating, like.

• 32:32Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 32:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  But I'll always remember. It's just like another cringey moment. And it's just funny. It's really funny to look back on now, like this decisions we made when we were sixteen, seventeen years old.

• 32:43Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. I definitely have, once again, give me time. I will circle back. I definitely have some cringey. What did she call us? Wilderness Mountain? Something.

• 32:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Sexy wilderness woman.

• 32:56Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I, that's a nickname that I feel like I could wear as a badge of honor. Because I've definitely done some, I don't know, sometimes the woods were your only place to be. You know what I mean?

• 33:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  True. It is true.

• 33:09Danielle LaRock?

  For canoodling. And I loved to canoodle. If there's anything about me.

• 33:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Teenagers have. Teenagers, so much PDA with teenagers is crazy.

• 33:22Danielle LaRock?

  Just like the rush you got, like just thinking of like that time in life and just being so flirty and like everything was new and exciting and.

• 33:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Carefree, no consequences.

• 33:36Danielle LaRock?

  Get your heart racing. Okay, anyway, let's move on. My next story is titled Shadow People, A Shared Death Experience and Smiles From The Great Beyond. Hello ladies, my name is Christina. I'm a 29 year old female from Arizona. I've spent the last year listening to you lovely ladies tell me stories while I do dishes, cook, deep clean the house, etc. Thank you for filling my mundane house chores with adventure. I listened to your episodes in reverse, so only recently came across your Trail Tale episodes that was all about signs from deceased loved ones. I really resonate with these stories as well as the episodes touching on near death experiences as I have a story of my own. It all ends in several national parks, I swear.

• 34:19Danielle LaRock?

  I wanted to finally write in and thought the two year anniversary of my dad's death would be a great time to do so. So here it goes. My dad was a Romanian immigrant who grew up with very little and wanted to give his family everything. My sister and I grew up very happy and loved. He could never say no to his two little girls. He set the bar very high for how we should be treated and how we should treat others. He was someone who couldn't turn away anyone in need, even when he had nothing to give at all. He was always telling long, drawn out jokes or botching a sketch he saw from a comedian. He loved to laugh and to make people laugh, so much so that we had engraved "Someone Who Loved To Make People Laugh" along with his name on his headstone.

• 35:01Danielle LaRock?

  It's short, but after much debate amongst my family, it was the best phrase that embodied him that could be, that could meet the 70 character max word count. We lost him in May of 2023 to lung cancer. My dad, knowing he would pass soon, always said, "I don't want you to cry when I die." Me, being the smart ass he raised, always replied, "What, do you want me to smile?" He'd reply, "Yes, I want you to remember me and to smile and be happy for." All the memories we had together. This will be important later. The day he died, we were all together for Memorial Day having lunch. My dad was not much there mentally in his final weeks. He was often confused or unresponsive when we would try to speak to him. He had mentioned a few weeks prior that when he's alone,

• 35:43Danielle LaRock?

  he sees shadow figures sitting beside him in his peripheral vision. But when he turns his head to look, they were gone. Dad, you telling us that you're seeing a ghost? I exclaimed with concern in my voice. Once he explained that the shadow figure's presence brings him comfort. I remembered all the stories from my paranormal podcasts about hospice patients reportedly seeing dead relatives and shadow figures when their time is almost up. Anyway, this day had become a lot for me to handle emotionally, so I decided to leave early for some well-earned disassociation time, oblivious to what was going to take place later that evening. I said goodbye to my dad, but he was in some sort of trance he couldn't break out of.

• 36:25Danielle LaRock?

  It took the terrifying raised voice of my Eastern European mother to bring him back to earth. George, Christina is trying to talk to you. She yelled from the kitchen. He shook awake and said, goodbye, I love you. I left in my car, driving home, sobbing hysterically and screaming in the only place I could let it out. This became my routine, driving to and from my parents' house for months. But then, something very strange started to happen. Memories of me and my dad from throughout my entire life began flooding in. Memories of me and him when I was a baby, toddler, child, teen, and young adult. Memories that I cannot recall now due to poor memory recall from years of trauma, some from so early on in my life that there was no way I could have remembered them.

• 37:10Danielle LaRock?

  I was able to recall cherished moments from almost a decade ago before his diagnosis, his strong voice and healthy appearance, memories that had been wiped from my mind and replaced by more recent images of his declining health. It is almost as if they were his memories of him and I. At the time, I didn't think much of this for some reason. I just went back home and laid in bed until I received the dreaded text from my sister. It's happening. You need to Come back. I raced back in my car, again sobbing hysterically, and again, memories began flashing in my mind like a movie montage. Too hysterical to think deeply about what I was experiencing, I walked into my parents' home to see my dad for the very last time, and I stopped crying.

• 37:53Danielle LaRock?

  I remember Danielle explaining what it was like when she was losing Ian. Something primal takes over in traumatic situations like this, and you just sort of feel calm. Your body goes into survival mode as if it knows what is happening, as it has happened to all your ancestors before you, and it keeps you extremely present and calm. He passed that night peacefully in his sleep, around everyone who he loved and who loved him deeply. I have historically had an awful memory, so I have no idea how the flashbacks could have just entered my mind like this at the exact same time my dad was passing away. Was this something spiritual, paranormal, primal, sciency? Did my body know he was dying and my brain tapped into my deep, forgotten memories?

• 38:36Danielle LaRock?

  I am a woman of science, but I am also spiritual. I do believe the two could go hand in hand, and it wasn't until I read the book "After" by Bruce Grayson that I learned about shared death experiences. I have that on my shelf behind me, that book. I believe I had a shared death experience with my dad. I believe he was receiving his life review, AKA the life flashing before your eyes, and he was sharing the parts with him and I. I am not sure what to do with this, as I have not found any other stories online about this exact kind of shared death experience. Fast forward two weeks, my mental health is at an all-time low, and a girl I had a fling with eight years prior in college slides into my DMs.

• 39:18Danielle LaRock?

  I reluctantly, because of my deteriorating mental health, agree to reconnect with her. I'd soon learn to be grateful for this decision, because we quickly became close friends, moved in together, and fell in love. Yes, in that order. At this point in my life, all I wanted was to meet my soulmate, as I've spent most of my twenties grieving my dad as I watched his health decline, and she essentially fell from the sky. I truly believe my dad had something to do with sending her my way. Fast forward one year, my partner and I decide to go on a national park road trip. See, I told you, there's a tie-in. The plan was to hit Rocky Mountain, Wind Cave, Badlands, my girlfriend's family reunion in Wisconsin, then to Voyagers, Theodore Roosevelt, Yellowstone, and the Grand Tetons.

• 40:03Danielle LaRock?

  I brought some of my dad's ashes with us to sprinkle in some of the most beautiful places that we would see throughout our trip. It wasn't until we were on the outskirts of Voyagers that I noticed something strange. I was riding in the passenger seat, and alongside a country road with nothing but forest beside it, I noticed a smiley face painted on a sign. It didn't seem like graffiti or an advertisement of any kind, just a perfectly drawn yellow smiley face, very out of place. That's odd, I thought, wonder what that was for. A few hours later, on our hike in the park, we hit a point with a wooden bench placed directly in front of a beautiful view of a lake. I thought this would be a nice spot to sprinkle some of my dad's ashes, and after doing so, I began to cry. My girlfriend then pointed to my left on the bench, "Look, a smiley face."

• 40:47Danielle LaRock?

  And right there was a smiley face carved into the wood. I thought of the random smiley face I saw just hours earlier, and the placement of this one seemed like synchronicity. I felt it in my bones that this must be my dad telling me to quit crying already. From that point, I began seeing smiley faces everywhere. Waiting outside of the Cowboy Cafe restroom in Madora, North Dakota, after hitting Wind Cave, I looked down at my feet and saw a perfect smiley face in white painting smiling right up at me. Beside hydrothermal steam and bison hoof prints while walking the Grand Prismatic Hot Springs Trail at Yellowstone, we saw a smiley face drawn into the earth below the wooden walking path. While this was clearly done by either a child or a childlike adult with little regard for

• 41:30Danielle LaRock?

  leave no trace, to me, it was another reminder for my dad to keep on smiling. The final smiley face I noticed on this trip was the strangest of all, because it was not human-made. My partner was driving, and I was scrolling through our photos taken of Yellowstone, when I came across one that made me stop and squint my eyes to see if I was really seeing what I thought I was seeing. The photo was of a tree with a river and a hill in the background, with a big, round cloud in the sky with two small holes in the center and one large one below. Yep, you guessed it. Looked just like a smiley face. I did not notice this while taking the photo, but there it was clear as day. I'll be sure to send in the photos of my smiley faces that I documented on this trip.

• 42:12Danielle LaRock?

  To this day, I see them in the most unlikely places. And I refuse to believe that it is any less than my dad reminding me to stop crying and appreciate every moment that he and I shared, and of course, to smile. Just the other day while walking your dog, my girlfriend and I were drawn to a mesquite tree that had an odd looking branch. While walking over to it, I looked at the tree's base and saw a stone with the word "smile" painted on it. So I did just that. I smiled and snapped a photo, which I'll include with my others. This happens constantly. It surely is no coincidence. Either it's my dad or some misogynistic ghost telling me I need to smile more, so I'm going to go with the former. Thank you for bearing with me and reading this story in its entirety.

• 42:54Danielle LaRock?

  I love you ladies and I hope to come on one of your group adventures someday when the stars align. Until then, enjoy the view and don't forget to smile while doing so. Thanks, Christina.

• 43:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  I loved that story. That was really beautiful.

• 43:07Danielle LaRock?

  I know. And it's, I had to think back of when the last time I saw like a smiley face or something like that and I can't, I can't, I don't see them like anywhere.

• 43:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 43:21Danielle LaRock?

  You know what I mean? And I just, I really enjoy that for her, like that's something that comes up in her life so often that she can resonate with.

• 43:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 43:31Danielle LaRock?

  And yeah, that's a good sneaky book recommendation in there after.

• 43:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Have you read it or you just have it?

• 43:38Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. Yeah, I read it. I read it um about maybe three months after Ian passed. I read it when I was on like my reading spree of every single book that has to do with death and afterlife and you know, what comes next and things like that. But um yeah, that's a really good one. And um it's like very, like she said, I'm a, I'm a woman of science. It's very sciency. It's not as like, I don't know, woo woo, I guess. Um, so it's a good one for people who are like, I need this from like a science perspective.

• 44:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  That this is real.

• 44:13Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, not just like, I feel this. It's like, okay, but why? Yeah. So anyway, that's a good one. Um, but anyway, all right. Great.

• 44:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, my next story is a longer one and it is titled "Behind the Trees." Hi Danielle and Cassie, my name is Ivan and my wife and I are big fans of the show. I'm a long haul truck driver and we're privileged in that I get to bring my wife with me. Being that our whole life is one long road trip, we listen to a lot of podcasts and NPAD is constantly in our rotation. This tale is one we love to share around camp and is one of the scariest encounters we've had outdoors. My wife and I are pretty flighty, especially during the holidays. So on a long weekend a few years ago, we decided to go on a winter camping trip. Texas winters aren't especially cold, but for two East Texans, the idea of sleeping outside in 30-degree weather sounded like a real Arctic expedition that we were excited to embark on.

• 45:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  We'd packed all the blankets we owned, along with our massive six-person tent, and headed west to the Texas Hill Country. We'd visited South Yano River State Park the previous year as a stop on a bigger camping trip we took for Christmas and knew we wanted to come back at some point. It's an IDA dark sky park with great stargazing opportunities that helped justify our recent telescope purchase. The five-hour drive in was as beautiful as it was long. Just before getting to the park, we pulled into a scenic overlook that gave us a great view of most of the park and drove towards the park entrance. We were confused when we arrived at a closed gate and we couldn't find any information online. We had lost signal about 20 miles ago. We wondered if we should turn back around into town,

• 45:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  but eventually another camper who was waiting by the gate told us why the park was closed. We didn't realize when we'd made the reservations, but the park closed on certain days for turkey hunting season and we were there on the last half-day of the hunt. An hour or so later, a ranger drove up from the inside the park to open the gate for us. After checking in with the main office, we drove around to get a quick look of the entire park. It was the off-season, so we didn't expect many people, but by the looks of it, it was a whole house. There were RVs parked in several sites, tents propped up, chairs set up around dead campfires, and bikes laid around a few of the sites. But oddly enough, we didn't see or hear Many people out. A few sights over, a couple hunters sat outside of their RV and an older couple walked up the road with their pup tugging them along.

• 46:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  We waved hello to a passing range and he waved back, but was soon out of sight. Unlike many of our other park experiences, the place felt deserted. Not even the camper who helped us was outside the gate earlier was around. We assumed that they were in a different part of the park, but it still felt odd that we didn't see them after checking in. In the moment, it didn't seem noteworthy. And honestly, as introverts, we figured we just got lucky with a quiet and slow day. It wasn't a big deal, however, just an observation. We were more excited to set up camp and explore the park anyways. Looking back now, the emptiness and silence should have been our first clue. Before I go further, I think it's important to note that neither of us scare easily.

• 47:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  We're both pretty level-headed and tend to think rationally and logically to work out any fears that we have. Even though we both listen to a lot of true crime and scary stories, we tend to keep those thoughts out of our heads when we're out in nature. We enjoy the outdoors too much to let those scary hypothetical serial killers and cryptids in the woods ruin our trips. We know that they're just stories. It's funny you say we know they're just story, but serial killers are real.

• 47:46Danielle LaRock?

  I was just gonna say something. I'm like, but wait, that's real.

• 47:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, that really happens.

• 47:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  They're just stories.

• 47:53Danielle LaRock?

  Ivan?

• 47:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Ivan?

• 47:55Danielle LaRock?

  Pay attention.

• 47:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  I know, there's like allegedly maybe a serial killer in New England right now.

• 48:01Danielle LaRock?

  I know.

• 48:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Which is scary.

• 48:03Danielle LaRock?

  I haven't looked too much into, because I'll see conflicting things of like another body of another woman here, here and here. And then it's like no evidence of them linked together. But I feel like in hindsight with so many serial killer cases.

• 48:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's how it starts.

• 48:16Danielle LaRock?

  That's always how it starts.

• 48:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. And they're all popping up in the woods. There's like a certain age demographic that's being affected.

• 48:23Danielle LaRock?

  Yep.

• 48:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Anyway, they're real. Serial killers are not just stories. We rushed to set up camp since we lost a lot of daylight waiting for the gates to open and we were itching to set off and explore. Since we only had a couple hours before sunset, we figured we would start with the closest trail. Behind our campsite, just beyond the tree line, was a trailhead that broke off into a few different trails. Walking to the trailhead, our dog Ella was excited as usual, zigzagging between my wife and I, sniffing every leaf on the ground that caught her attention. At the gate of the trailhead, we read a sign stating that the trail closed at 3pm. That seemed odd, since most of our parks closed at sunset, which at the time of year would have been around 6pm. 3 seemed a bit too early, but we later learned

• 49:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  it was to protect the turkeys roosting in the area. We were bummed it'd be a short time. We decided we'd be quick and try to make the best of it. We set off happy as could be, excited to finally get away from the city and step into nature for a while. The trail we took was a pretty short loop that went out to the river and followed it for a while before cutting back to the gate. Probably less than three miles altogether. We chatted most of the way, while Ella tugged at her leash bouncing from either side of the trail. When we reached the bank of the river, my wife noticed a few wild pigs, a mother and her piglets. On our side of the river, we stood about six feet higher than them on a cliff, so they didn't notice us right away. We watched them root around for food for a while before they disappeared into the bushes on the

• 49:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  other side of the river, and we moved on. We kept moving down the trail, stopping to look at trees, plants, and armadillos that scurried across the trail, taking pictures along the way. I had just pulled out my binoculars to see if I could spot any wildlife, when my wife stopped in her tracks. She stood stiff for a moment before saying, "Babe, keep walking. We need to go. Curfew is almost up," in a monotone voice. She stood in a place not looking at me when she spoke. She stared straight ahead at a clearing with tall grass and a couple skinny trees. I couldn't tell what she was looking at, but something in her voice just told me to do it, not to press her and pick up the pace. My wife has really good situational awareness and is pretty risk averse, so she does that type of thing a lot. It could be a stranger giving her

• 50:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  a bad vibe, or a sudden sense of urgency. urgency to just get out of there like something is about to happen. She usually picks up on those sort of things and even though she wasn't always right, she was right often enough for me to know it was best to just trust her. We kept on quieter now, stepping a bit faster while my wife's eyes were set on the same clearing. I thought maybe it was an animal or maybe just another hiker, but eventually I noticed Ella started to act weird too. Nothing like the interactions we had had with the wild hog and the armadillos. She tends to be a pretty happy and restless hiker, jumping on people and excitedly tagging us along the whole time. But for some reason, she was also looking around into the trees and walking in weird patterns,

• 51:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  sometimes even stopping long enough for me to have to prod her along to keep walking. Now I'm fully out of my ignorance and aware something feels wrong. My wife is still looking at the same spot, which was behind us around a curve not entirely visible anymore. A little worried now, I asked her, what's wrong? Why is the dog being so weird? While keeping her eyes in the same direction of the clearing, she said, I don't know. I thought I saw something behind those trees, but I don't know what it was. I asked if Ella might have seen it too, and that's why she's just as skittish, but we couldn't be sure. She didn't describe to me what it was she thought she saw, but I could tell she wasn't scared at that point yet. So I cracked a cheesy joke to ease the tension. Maybe it was just a giant turkey. She didn't laugh.

• 52:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  The wind died down and unsettling silence set in. Right then, we heard what sounded like a branch snap. We turned back towards the clearing. In my peripheral, I thought I saw something quickly duck behind a tree. I wasn't sure what it was. I'd only caught a glimpse of it. It was vaguely human with a head, neck and shoulders, but the whole figure was dark and blurred, almost the color of the trees. It didn't look like any animal I knew of in that part of the state. Maybe I had imagined it. I decided not to mention it to my wife so she wouldn't worry any more than she already was.

• 52:33Danielle LaRock?

  I feel like that's something you should mention. I want to know.

• 52:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, if you think you see something, I want to know what it is. Or that you saw something and I should be on high alert.

• 52:41Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, it's like I, you aren't alone. There's somebody else with you that should probably be aware of anything odd.

• 52:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  But also, I guess if like your wife is Already really on edge. Maybe it's doesn't even need to be said. It's like she's already worried. Let's just like keep it moving and get out of here. It's not not necessary to freak her out even more and just like get out of here.

• 53:02Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. I just, I like to know things.

• 53:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  I do too. I thought I caught glimpses of it a few more times behind different trees. Most of them were to our side and when I'd look behind us on the trail. But at least once I saw it behind a tree ahead of us on the trail. I wondered if it was just one or several of those, whatever it was. I wondered if there could have been a group all around us or a single figure faster than I could keep track of. The answer wouldn't change the fact that I knew we needed to get out of there. The thing that baffled me the most was that the trees in the area aren't very wide. Most of the trees look like pencils with leaves in that area. They weren't exactly wide enough for many things to duck and fully hide behind. How the hell were they able to completely hide behind the trees? As we made our way down the trail, I kept all these thoughts to myself.

• 53:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  There had to be a logical explanation or I was seeing things. Either way, the last thing I wanted was to have all three of us running out of the park like crazy people over something that might just have been some dirt in my eyes. We were nearing the end when it showed itself one last time. Stood peeking behind a tree as clear as day. I turned to my wife, our eyes locked. Neither of us had to say it anymore. We both saw it and now there was no denying it. We both knew something was out there with us. Just act normal, my wife said. Keep walking. Completely silent with fear, now the air even felt heavy and dead. No movement at all. It felt like the whole area was holding its breath. I silently prayed that this was all a horrible misunderstanding, that it was only a pig or coyote we had contended with.

• 54:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  As dangerous an encounter with one would be, it was a lot better than what we were now imagining might be out there. But we knew whatever that thing was, it wasn't human or animal. The gate was within sight now. We quietly rushed towards it and right as we came up to it, a couple in a side by side came riding up to the gate from the other side. We realized later that they were park hosts. They looked at us confused and asked, what are you guys doing out here? We thought no one was here. We tried to hold it together and replied something about trying to enjoy the trail before it closed and we awkwardly hurried past them embarrassed at how we almost jumped when they came into sight. Had we really just witnessed that? Almost as soon as we stepped across the gate, we could feel the pressure in the air change. The cold air felt so much lighter and

• 55:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  we could hear animal noises again. Birds chirping, crickets ringing in the breeze began to blow past us as if it had never left. I looked down at my watch and noticed it was still about 10 minutes before the trail was supposed to close. When we were back at our campsite, I told my wife everything. She then took a deep breath and explained what she had seen. When I went to pull out my binoculars, something caught her eye. At first, she thought it was a deer, just above the tall grass, standing behind a tree, but it didn't look right. She followed the outline of the thing to see the rest of its body, but that's when she saw hands long and skinny, just a shade darker than the tree trunk, and its fingers wrapped around. She looked back at its head much clearer now. It was human-like, but no features to it. In that moment, all she could

• 56:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  think of were her grandmother's words that I'd love to get in, that I'd love to get into, but we'd be here all day. Just act normal, respect it, and keep going about your way. So in that moment, she did just that. She kept her eyes on it as if to show no fear, but rather respect, and kept moving. She wasn't sure what it was, but better safe than sorry. She said she didn't know if I had seen it following us until that last moment we locked eyes, and that was when the fear caught up to her. She also pointed out that when we were leaving, it almost felt like the hosts were concerned to see us on the trail and were trying to get us out of there quickly, as if they knew. That track, since they looked like they were ready to close the gates earlier than what the sign stated they were supposed to do. The rest of our trip went smoothly.

• 56:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  In the evening, campfires roared, families laughed, the stars shone beautifully, and we didn't feel what we felt back on that trail. After crossing that gate back to the campsite, it felt almost like a different world. It felt safer and far away from whatever was hiding behind the trees. We still camp, still hike, and have never felt or seen anything like we did that day. After the trip, we came home and shared the story with A few family members and some friends, but we mostly forgot about the whole ordeal until two thousand and twenty four, when this video showed up on my wife's for you page. It was terrifyingly similar to our experience. It described something they called a hide behind, and I immediately recognized it.

• 57:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  The dark human shaped figure that kept ducking behind the trees I'd seen was exactly what they were describing. We didn't get too deep into what we saw, so when she showed me that video and told me that that was what she saw, I knew I couldn't pretend we didn't see it anymore. From the video, we couldn't tell if they were harmful, but we were just glad to put a name to what we had seen. It definitely raised our levels of fear for what we went through that night, but now we were sure our fears were justified. Thanks for reading our story and remember, enjoy the view, but look out for what's hiding behind the trees.

• 58:00Danielle LaRock?

  What is it called to get a hide behind?

• 58:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  A hide behind. I've never heard of that.

• 58:04Danielle LaRock?

  Me neither. Can you Google it really quick?

• 58:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Can I Google it?

• 58:09Danielle LaRock?

  Please share with everyone.

• 58:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Says the hide behind is a creature from American folklore described as a tall, shadowy figure that lurks in the woods and is known for the ability to conceal itself, often appearing behind trees or other objects. It is said to prey on unsuspecting humans, particularly loggers, and is feared for its ability to disembowel its victims.

• 58:30Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, okay.

• 58:34Danielle LaRock?

  So that.

• 58:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  That took a turn. I don't want to be disemboweled.

• 58:39Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, my God. Good thing they had no idea what it was before.

• 58:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, imagine if you knew that.

• 58:46Danielle LaRock?

  You'd be running like hell.

• 58:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, my God.

• 58:48Danielle LaRock?

  But she just was like, look, respect.

• 58:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, at first she was just staring it like right where she saw, like acknowledging, I see you. I respect you. Your space, I'm leaving. It seemed like, like what her grandmother had said. And it's funny that that whole story, he was like, I didn't want to freak my wife out. And she was like, I knew exactly what was happening the entire time and I was trying to not freak you out.

• 59:12Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. Okay, so a new fear to have.

• 59:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  A new fear unlocked.

• 59:20Danielle LaRock?

  Hide behinds. I've never heard of that. Does it say like a region? Cause usually it's like they're in specific areas. I wonder if it's like a Texas thing or a southern thing.

• 59:35Danielle LaRock?

  For some reason I get like, and I don't know if it's the

• 59:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  It just says the forest of, um, oh, it says most commonly found in the forest of the northern United States and Canada.

• 59:45Danielle LaRock?

  What?

• 59:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Says throughout American logging country.

• 59:48Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 59:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  They're here.

• 59:50Danielle LaRock?

  Well, I guess they don't follow the norm because they were in Texas. For some reason I feel like I picture, and I think it's because of the description of like the shadowy, like whatever, but I think of dementors.

• 1:00:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 1:00:04Danielle LaRock?

  Like the wispy, like creepy, dark.

• 1:00:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Funny, because when you look at pictures of it, there's a ton of different ones of like how they're portrayed, but one of the first one looks like Cousin It with a tail.

• 1:00:17Danielle LaRock?

  What?

• 1:00:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  And I'm like, that is not, and that's the only one. That's, the rest are, um, a lot different, but.

• 1:00:24Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, well, my last story is titled A Visit From Glenda Bradley.

• 1:00:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Who's Glenda Bradley?

• 1:00:32Danielle LaRock?

  You know who Glenda Bradley is.

• 1:00:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  I do?

• 1:00:34Danielle LaRock?

  Yes, and it'll come back to you.

• 1:00:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Really?

• 1:00:44Danielle LaRock?

  Hey, girls. I hope you're doing well since Borneo and have soaked up this fall weather. Okay, so, hi.

• 1:00:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like we were in Borneo like eight months ago, but.

• 1:00:55Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, but.

• 1:00:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  That just shows that trail tales can pop up at any time.

• 1:00:58Danielle LaRock?

  Anytime, anytime. And I want to be so transparent. I had a moment when I was reading this of like, I feel like I've heard this before. So, because I know we have shared one trail tale twice by accident. Again, I don't have a great memory and I am the keeper of trail tales. So, um, I was like, oh, I guess. I think it was like, we shared it once on the show and then I accidentally put it as like a bonus trail tale like months later. And people are like, we have heard this before, I swear to God. And I kind of had like a moment of, I feel like I've heard this story before. So if I have read it, here

• 1:01:36Danielle LaRock?

  it is again. Um, but, surprise, but I think it might be because Michaela from Borneo wrote this.

• 1:01:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, and told us in Borneo?

• 1:01:46Danielle LaRock?

  Maybe.

• 1:01:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 1:01:48Danielle LaRock?

  I don't, you tell me if you've ever heard this before.

• 1:01:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Welcome to National Park After Dark.

• 1:01:53Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, so with that disclaimer out of the way, I have to share this story with you guys from a trip I just made to the Smokies. Okay, so never mind. She didn't share.

• 1:02:04Danielle LaRock?

  God, I'm losing it. Okay, wow. Okay, so that theory's out of there. Anyway, I'm sending it in trail tale style if you want to share it in the pod, but no pressure. I'll start this story by saying I am typically a believer of coincidences. I know, I know, that's not the norm around here, but for me personally, I'm typically one to explain away as much as I can. For better or worse, I tend to be a black and white thinker and always try to find explanations for the weirder experiences that I've had in my life. But this experience felt very different, and now I may be second guessing my quick nature to dismiss the more magical moments in life. Over the last few years, I've started a new tradition of going on solo camping trips for my birthday.

• 1:02:47Danielle LaRock?

  This year was no different, and I decided to spend a few days in the Great Smoky Mountains. I headed out with really no plans at all, just a few trails downloaded on AllTrails and the hopes of spotting a black bear at the end of the season. My birthday is early in November, so I knew the chances were low. I booked the only front country campsite left. I'm a bit of a late planner, which happened to be at the Elkmont Campground. The first night I stayed put and just enjoyed the night at my campsite. Aside from my neighbors playing heavy metal music on their speakers well past 10:00 PM, it was a great night. The next morning, I woke up early to catch the sunrise and headed out to do a few trails. The day before, I asked a ranger where I may have good luck catching a glimpse of a black bear.

• 1:03:29Danielle LaRock?

  They recommended the Roaring Fork area and Little River Trail. I started with the Rainbow Falls Trail off Roaring Fork Motor Trail. While the hiking was amazing, I had no such luck finding a black bear. After that, I went and had lunch at a picnic site so I could kill some time before heading to the Little River Trail for a hike closer to dusk. I ended up hiking the Little River to Cucumber Gap Loop Trail, another one recommended by the ranger for bear spotting. I was out past dark, but again, no such luck finding a bear. This trailhead is right by the Elkmont Campground, so I headed back to call it a night. While making dinner and enjoying my fire, I popped my headphones in and scrolled through my Spotify to find and download episodes of NPAD to listen to. Unplanned, but

• 1:04:13Danielle LaRock?

  Perfectly fitting. I had your Great Smoky Mountains Tooth and Claw collab saved, so I threw that on for a re-listen. I vaguely remembered the story, but was excited to learn that it took place right on the trail I had just been on earlier that evening. I was just a mile and a half shy of the bridge where Glenda had encountered the sow and her cub.

• 1:04:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, I remember her now.

• 1:04:34Danielle LaRock?

  For those unfamiliar with Glenda's story, she had the unfortunate title of being the first person to be killed by a black bear within the Great Smoky Mountain National Park area. The next day, I had to head out of the park and make the journey home, but I had a few hours in the morning to kill. I decided I would wake up and head out on the Little River Trail again, and make it for the site of Glenda's tragic mauling. Maybe a bit morbidly, I was also hoping on this last hike, I may finally have my highly desired black bear sighting. The next morning, I did just that and hiked the four miles out to the metal bridge that crosses the river on the Goshen Prong Trail, just past the connection on the Little River Trail, where Glenda had split

• 1:05:15Danielle LaRock?

  paths with her husband before the attack. There were very little people out on the trail, and it was a peaceful morning with crisp fall weather, blue skies, and bluebirds chirping endlessly. The hike was beautiful, and when I made it to the bridge, I felt a genuine heaviness wash over me. It was a strange mix of sadness from the history of that spot, mixed with the joy that comes from being in such a beautiful place. I tried to sit with my thoughts and really think about Glenda. I hoped she would still want people to enjoy this beautiful place and see past her horrible experience there. I imagined she would be happy to see the smiling faces, or laughter of all the people who have hiked this trail in the 20 years since her death. While I sat in the heaviness of it all, I took note of just how alone I felt in that moment.

• 1:06:00Danielle LaRock?

  In thinking about Glenda, that's what stood out the most. Just how alone she must have felt, going through that experience with no one around to help her. I felt scared and sorry for her, and was thinking, almost, I wish I could tell her just how sorry I am that she had to experience that in a place like this. Now, I think a lot of people may know this, but if not, I want to mention a common mythology about butterflies. Some believe that butterflies can be the souls of the dead coming back to visit with us. I don't know much about the origin of this, but I believe there are some ties to the indigenous peoples of Mexico. For me personally, I know of this myth because my mom is a firm believer citing many a time where she had her mother or sister on her mind

• 1:06:42Danielle LaRock?

  and out of seemingly nowhere, a butterfly would appear. Now remember, I do think there are such things as coincidences. This, however, just felt too coincidental. Now back to the moment in the Great Smoky Mountains, where in early November, most butterflies would have migrated south or begun hibernation by that point. As I stood on this bridge, mind and heart full on thoughts and emotions about Glenda, seemingly out of nowhere, came a butterfly. I watched it fly out from the trees on the northwest bank of the river from the exact direction where Glenda had died. The butterfly flew up to the right of me, about three to four feet away, and as I watched it, my first thought was, huh, that's weird, noting it was weird to see a butterfly that time of year.

• 1:07:24Danielle LaRock?

  I hadn't seen a single one up until that point, nor would I see another. Then my very next thought was, I wonder if that is Glenda. I swear, the second this thought crossed my mind, the butterfly flew directly at my face, coming within an inch of my nose, so close that I took a step back, thinking it was about to land directly on my face. Then in an instant, it was gone, lost to the tree line on the left, and the tears were running down my face before I even had a second to rationalize the experience away. Me, a total believer in coincidences, am left 100% convinced that this was Glenda.

• 1:08:03Danielle LaRock?

  I believe it as if it were a fact, and even though I've tried to explain it away, I can't account for the emotional heaviness that encounter carried. I believe maybe she was happy to see me enjoying the beautiful spot in the river, or maybe she was just there to say thank you for thinking of her all these years later. I'm still not sure why, but I believe that I was visited by Glenda Bradley that day in the Great Smoky Mountains. Maybe not the black bear sighting I was hoping for, but butterflies are beautiful too. Thanks for the read. I'll attach some photos of the bridge where- Glenda spent the last few moments of her life, Michaela.

• 1:08:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow, that was a really cool story. And I love that you got, you changed your view on coincidences.

• 1:08:43Danielle LaRock?

  Even if it was just for that one isolated event. You know, you don't have to change your mind about everything, but just being open to the possibility of certain magical moments. Is, I think, life-changing in a way. And I'm really, like, I don't know, I just, I think that that experience was meant to happen to you for a reason. And I'm glad that you thought of Glenda and in a different way, because you know, when we did that story with the tooth and claw guys, that that was a couple of years ago now. And anytime people, at least that didn't know her in life, talk about her, it's that event.

• 1:09:22Danielle LaRock?

  And it carries such like a heavy sadness and, I mean, because it's an awful way to have your life ended and just brutal. And it seems like Michaela was just thinking of her in just a different way.

• 1:09:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:36Danielle LaRock?

  You know, so, anyway, I love that one. Thanks, Michaela.

• 1:09:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes, thank you, Michaela. Oh, and I have a, not a joke, but like a question of if something is trying to visit and connect with me right now. Because I have, so we have hummingbirds in our yard. But I have this one hummingbird that is constantly like following me around. When I sit on the porch, the, the hummingbird, we do have a hummingbird feeder out there. But this hummingbird keeps coming in and flying directly in front of my face and just looking at me and then leaving. And it keeps doing this. And then when I'm in the house, I was, we were in a meeting yesterday. And I was sitting inside and it was just sitting outside my window staring at me through the window.

• 1:10:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  And I've noticed it a few different times where I am in the house. I'll look out the window and it's just hovering there, looking at me. And then in the garden, there's a tree there that it is, that is full of flowers right now. So it's always out there. But it'll fly into the garden and it'll just like be next to me. And we're like, hmm. And every year that I've been here, we've had hummingbirds and I'll have like an instance where I'll be on the porch and a hummingbird will fly in and then fly away, but not like it's just sitting there and like staring at me for like, it'll be like a solid like three or four seconds and then it flies away. But I've never had them just sitting outside the window.

• 1:11:00Danielle LaRock?

  Like just like enough for you to notice.

• 1:11:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, like it's not weird to see hummingbirds because I see them all the time in our yard, but just like something's different. So we're like, is someone trying to say hi to me?

• 1:11:11Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. Are they?

• 1:11:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know. I don't know. I don't have a connection to hummingbirds with anybody. So I don't know who it would be if it was, but I'm just noticing it.

• 1:11:20Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. I, I guess my only thought or my first thought with that is just like when those things happen, try and think of like what you were, what your mind was on right before, or like where like, I don't know. Just think of, you know, because sometimes for me, when I see something, it's like, okay, that, that particular thing makes me think of a particular person, but sometimes it's like could be reversed. It's like you're thinking if there's a connection and every time you're seeing this hummingbird and you're like, I was just thinking of this person or this thing.

• 1:12:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:00Danielle LaRock?

  And then you see it. It's like, maybe it's a reverse thing. It's, it's more of like a confirmation type thing instead of a trigger. I don't know. It's hard to.

• 1:12:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. I'll have to be more cognizant of it because it's been in random times. Like we were literally in a meeting and I looked outside and it was just sitting there and it was there for like, I would say it was there for like 10 seconds and I wanted to be like, there's a hummingbird, but we were like in the middle of a business meeting.

• 1:12:24Danielle LaRock?

  Well, I will keep me posted. I'd love to know. Oh yeah. We have two more stories.

• 1:12:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  We do. We have two more stories. Thank you everyone for tuning in. If you want to hear our next stories, they are on Patreon and Apple subscriptions. Mine is titled, The Spider House Near Rocky Mountain National Park.

• 1:12:41Danielle LaRock?

  And mine is titled, Do You Really Need More Signs?

• 1:12:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes, probably.

• 1:12:46Danielle LaRock?

  The answer is yes, always.

• 1:12:49Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, we'll see you guys over there.

• 1:12:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, see you next time. In the meantime, enjoy the view, but watch your back.

• 1:12:54Danielle LaRock?

  Bye.

• 1:12:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bye.

• 1:12:56Danielle LaRock?

  Thank you for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale of your own you'd like to share, you can write to us at [email protected] or visit our website at NPADpodcast.com. Bonus trail tales and content are available to Patreon members and Apple subscribers. Follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and X at National Park After Dark. And if you prefer to watch our episodes, you can find us on YouTube at National Park After Dark. And as always, if you enjoy the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

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