Pod Insights Myths and Legends 438: Maui: Whatever Happened to the Man Who Snared the Sun? About this episode 🏝️No one has seen or heard about Maui for quite some time
Meanwhile, all these strange portents are leading disparate groups to a faraway island, all the while there are ominous tales spoken in whispers. It's probably ok, right? I mean, it's Maui. He's always looking out for us.
Right?
😈 The Creature: Menehune
They'll build things for you (out of love), or they'll shoot you (also out of love?) but you better not watch them do either.
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🎵 Music Credits
Woke up at the Aquarium by Breakmaster Cylinder
Bitter Bit by Blue Dot Sessions
Runway 12 by Blue Dot Sessions
Depths of Field Retreating by Blue Dot Sessions
Pelly's Overture by Blue Dot Sessions
A Aecollection by Blue Dot Sessions
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 Quick disclaimer, toward the end of today's episode, there's a bit of iffy content. I would say it's very adult in nature. I do something a little different and give a warning before it at about the 40 minute mark, but there are many more details in the post on mythpodcast.com. This week on Myths and Legends, we're back in the story of Maui from Polynesian folklore. We'll see that if you want endless grief and haters, just spend your life helping everyone out. And that, if you're thinking of trying to fight death and give humans immortality, you might want to practice imitating a hairless dog. On the creatures of the week, we have the two foot tall, sneaky Hawaiian creatures who will shoot you in the heart with love, but only if you're a jerk.
0:51 Speaker 00 This is Myths and Legends, episode 438, Whatever Happened to the Man Who Snared the Sun?
1:02 Speaker 00 This is a podcast where we tell stories from mythology and folklore. Some are incredibly popular tales you might think you know, but with surprising origins. Others are stories that might be new to you, but are definitely worth a listen. The last time we did a Maui story was December 2020, episode 208. The six-year wait was not intentional, but I feel like I did need to grow as a writer to be able to tell the story we're going to tell today. If you don't know Maui, he's a demigod, a trickster who almost didn't make it. He was born prematurely, but he was raised by his grandfather, the god of the sea. He reunited with his parents and his four other brothers, all also named Maui, and, since
1:42 Speaker 00 he was premature and cast out, decided that he would help the little guy, us. In previous episodes, we told stories of how he slowed down the sun, fished up islands, gave humanity fire, got married, and killed tuna, a giant eel. But, a strange thing has happened in the intervening years. Maui is gone. No one has seen a new feat or heard a new story of him in what feels like a lifetime. A gathering has been called for that very reason, on a far island at the edge of the world.
2:27 Speaker 00 No one saw the first man to make landfall on the island because he had been there for years. He dressed up in his finest shreds of coverings for the ships on the horizon, saying that for years, decades, he had been stuck there, trying to get anyone to pass by, and now, it seemed, the whole world was coming to him. The Hawaiians, despite having the farthest to go, were the first to arrive and offer the man some food, though he provided for them even more generously from his bounty: coconut, crab, octopus, shellfish, fish of every variety, actually. He even managed to cultivate a little farm, raising the variety of pig that appeared native to the island. Except for the whole "being stuck there for the rest of his life," it was pretty nice.
3:11 Speaker 00 Ships from the Samoans, Maori, Tongans, Tahitians, and others showed up soon after that. They all had been led to this place by different signs and wonders: fish traveling different currents than they usually did, birds they had never seen before arriving on their islands, a bone hook washing up on the beach. Strange winds led some and pulled others to this place. No matter where they started or for what purpose, the winds drew them here. "But what's here?" the stranger, the man who had been shipwrecked, asked. No one knew. "A funeral," one Maori man spoke up. The cloudless sky and the beautiful beach juxtaposed with his grim tone and downcast
3:56 Speaker 00 face. A funeral for Maui. Many, many years ago, the man-army crawled across the field. Looking up ahead, he sighed. Without any trees or plants on the plain, the sky hung low, really low. It had the consistency and hardness of like, a new gym mat or a yoga mat someone sat on a concrete floor. You could bump your head against it and be fine, it wouldn't feel good, but unless you went in major back pain, you couldn't lift it.
4:39 Speaker 00 And even if you managed, it would just drop back down after you inevitably dropped yourself. So, people crawled.
4:48 Speaker 00 The forests were manageable. Plants seemed to have a quiet strength that pushed up at the sky, which led to their own leaves flattening out. Valleys were good, too, with the mountains holding up the sky at points like a circus tent. If you had to travel between the forests and the valleys, though, the sky hung low until it was nearly on your shoulders. The seas, too, were basically impassable. The people that lived in this world, though, had been born in this world. They didn't know anything else, so the sky slapping their face like taffy if they weren't paying attention between trees was just something that happened. "Phew," the man said, squeezing under the sky toward the bowing palm trees of the village.
5:29 Speaker 00 As annoying as it was, it was his job to go out and gather supplies, and he had found a place for himself in this world. Standing up and stretching, he called out to his house to announce his return, but it was empty. Calling out to the other houses, they, too, were empty. And he emerged into the village to see them gathered around one man. "Where'd you come from?" a woman asked, and then took a sip from her gourd. "Across the sea," the stranger said. "That's nonsense. No one comes from across the sea. The clouds would smother you," the woman replied. "And yet, here I am, unsmothered. Now, please, can I have a drink?" The woman looked him over, still not offering the gourd. "Like you said, it's hard to get across the sea.
6:12 Speaker 00 I had to do a lot of pushing up at the sky. Eventually, I just got out and swam. My brothers are still out there napping under an especially soft cumulus cloud." But still, the woman didn't offer him any water from the gourd. "Okay. How about this?" the man said. "You give me a drink from your gourd, calabash, and I will push the sky higher." After a long silence, the woman nodded. "Okay." "Oh, my gosh, thank you," the man said, swiped the gourd and guzzled the liquid within. Wiping his mouth, the man pointed. It looked like some of those storm clouds over there were getting a little heavy. The trees were bowing. He'd start there. The man walked over to the edge of the tree line and lay down. As he propped his legs up and flexed, a number of people in the village thought that the
6:57 Speaker 00 clouds must have cleared. "Was it getting hot here? Wow, weird." After counting down, the man kicked upward with a grunt and stood. Stood in a place where humans, or anything else for that matter, had never been able to stand before. The man stretched, "Hey, alright, this was pretty nice." Looking up, he saw the sky was staying where he kicked it. Hmm, this actually gave him an idea. The group that followed him to the foot of the mountain whispered on the way. And the man who had been crawling across the fields earlier that day couldn't help but follow and listen. People wondered who the stranger was. Wait, could it be Maui? "Where are you gonna throw it?" The man asked. The one they thought it could be Maui turned to him.
7:43 Speaker 00 Uh, the, up there? "You, you're gonna throw the sky to the top of the mountain?" The man asked with a laugh. "Do you have any idea how ridiculous it would be to throw the sky that far?" "Well, I'm already throwing the sky, so you should probably recalibrate what's normal for you." Maui said, "But yeah." He was gonna make that man eat those words. "The only thing I'm gonna be eating is victory pie." The man called out with a laugh, despite that not remotely being a thing, except for maybe a, like a South Korean snack cake that pops up on Google for me. People were less surprised, but more awestruck, if that made sense, that this man, the one that everyone now knew to be Maui himself, was able to throw the sky up to the top of the mountains.
8:29 Speaker 00 Now everyone could walk everywhere without the need to crouch or crawl. But as Maui looked up and saw that he, he could do even better than that, there were detractors, or detractor. "You can't do it." The man who'd been crawling through the fields earlier, our point of view character, told Maui. Maui turned around, "Is that a, he wasn't capable of doing it?" Or a, "The man wouldn't allow him to do it." "I mean, pick one." The man put his hands on his shoulders. "Yeah, no, I'm gonna pick both," Maui replied. "And my response to both is, watch me? Honestly, I don't know what you're going on about. This is only good for you." The man pointed, "No, it's not, because you're an agitator. This is how the world has always been."
9:14 Speaker 00 "Yeah, and how it's always been is bad. To have the sky hang down and brush your head like the interior fabric of the roof of a car from the 90s is bad." Just because something is a certain way doesn't mean it has to, or should, stay that way. For instance, islands. You have them now, thanks to a fishing trip I took with my bros. "You're welcome," Maui said and looked directly at the camera and winked. "Who are you winking at?" the detractor asked. Maui told him, "Nobody, don't worry about it." But he was gonna get to throwing the sky up to where the sky belonged, up there somewhere. He asked for the people to excuse him. Even for a demigod who took the form of a bird, a trip up a forested mountain in a
9:59 Speaker 00 subtropical climate is a difficult one. So it was a little while until the speck of Maui appeared at the top. The form grabbed the sky that still touched the mountain's peak, and the whole of it rippled, far out over the sea with each of Maui's movements. The sequence of events was expected now. Maui laid down on his back, got his feet underneath the sky, took a few quick, sharp breaths, and pushed. Maui would return, years later, before his final voyage, and tell the man as much. But the detractor was right. Or, he would have been right. The pushing of the sky was his greatest task to date.
10:42 Speaker 00 As he was doing it, he didn't know if he could, but then he looked down the mountain, to the man, to the detractor, standing with his arms crossed and a pleased look on his face. If Maui was teetering on the edge of success and failure, pure, uncut spite gave him the strength he needed to throw the sky up to where we have it today, where it has remained ever since Maui climbed the mountain and put it there for us. Streaming with sweat, Maui descended the mountain to the adoration of the village and the shouts of the detractor. Maui had changed the natural order of things. This would bring destruction. Maui, still exhausted, turned and pointed,
11:25 Speaker 00 drawing his fishhook from seemingly nowhere. The bone flashed in the sunlight. "All right, the man never wanted anything to change. Cool, Maui would make it so that the man never changed. At all, ever." The man bolted. He thought that they were participating in a marketplace of ideas, but no, this rogue demigod was threatening him with violence just because the man criticized everything Maui did every step of the way while Maui did all the work. While he didn't actually make any arguments, but just heaped on abuse. Some people just couldn't take a healthy, intellectual debate. If the man, the detractor, didn't know any better, he could swear that Maui was purposefully staying just a few steps behind him to keep him scared.
12:11 Speaker 00 He didn't know any better, but it wasn't to keep him scared. That was just a fringe benefit. It was to find the perfect spot. Maui might be mercurial and maybe a little vindictive, but he wasn't evil. When the man was sprinting across the most beautiful section of the beach, almost moved to tears by a breathtaking sunset he could appreciate now that Maui had moved the sky, he felt the tap of Maui's fishhook on his back. And then he stopped, forever. The man found that he couldn't move. He tried to make his feet go, but well, there were no more feet. There were no more anything. No legs, no hands, no head.
12:54 Speaker 00 Being able to see, though with no idea how, he just knew that he was a big, black rock that now sat on the edge of the beach. Maui gave him a satisfied, "Hmm." And the man, we'll call him Rocky now, saw his family jogging up behind Maui. "Where is he?" The girl, his daughter, looked around. As the man's wife found them, Maui pointed. "At the black boulder." "Is, is he dead?" The man's wife asked. Maui turned to her shocked and a little offended dead. No, of course not. He's just a rock. Can we talk to him? The woman asked as the elder child, a son, found them.
13:39 Speaker 00 Oh, of course. He can hear you. He doesn't need to eat, sleep, or move. He can't talk back, though, Maui said, seemingly bracing for the reaction. At this, the man's family brightened. Oh, well, that's not so bad. That's kind of great, actually. Yeah, I'll be real. I kind of got that impression, Maui said. But still, you never know how people are going to respond to this sort of thing. So Maui left the man's family, climbing atop him and watching the sunset, having the best family time they've ever had. Maui walked off, taking the form of a traveler to soak in the humans' appreciation of yet another one of his feats. And, I'm sorry, what is this?
14:22 Speaker 00 A man said, sitting around the fire. Remember the opener where several groups followed mysterious signs and wonders to a desolate island to share news of Maui's demise? Oh, the Hawaiian man said, I just thought we were sharing stories of Maui's feats. No, one of the others said, we're sharing how we think he died. It might be good to get it back on track, one of the people from Samoa said. I feel like there are a lot of stories of Maui we've already heard. We're here to focus on one thing, really. And it was true. In the past few hours, the group had set aside a web of pain and conflicts between their respective groups. They could find peace, at least for a moment, to understand what happened to the demigod who had done so much for them,
15:07 Speaker 00 and everyone allied, at least here, to parse out the signs and wonders that had led them to this place. Everyone knew of Maui, of course, or at least a version of him. He was one of five brothers, the other four also being named Maui. He'd been cast away by his mother, being born prematurely, and he had not only survived, but thrived, growing to be the strongest of them all. He dredged up the islands from the sea, gave everyone coconuts, married Hina, defeated Tuna. No, no, Hina was his mother, one of the ex- Explorers from the Hawaiian Islands said. A Maori man asserted that his mother was Taranga. Hina was his elder sister, the one who helped plate the ropes that stopped the sun, slowing it down so that the day was longer for everyone.
15:48 Speaker 00 They continued with the story, briefly, explaining that the brothers were tired of having no time in the day to do anything more than just get their work done before it was night, and they had to go to bed and wake up and do it all again tomorrow. Quick sidebar here, if you haven't had this experience in life of having zero time to do anything other than what you have to do, appreciate it because it's coming for you. Anyway, the other Maui's were terrified of confronting the sun, but it was Hina's, his older sister's hair, that was strong enough to bind the sun and give Maui the opportunity to persuade the celestial body to slow down a bit, or else that body wouldn't be so celestial, if you know what I mean. Because he would physically harm it?
16:32 Speaker 00 The stranger who had been shipwrecked said, thinking that he was following. Yes, obviously. He beat the sun with his grandma's jaw. Episode 36, by the way. A man from one of the other Hawaiian Islands said. And of course, we all know about how Maui revealed birds to everyone. Everyone looked at him confused. What? Birds were invisible? Obviously. Each of them looked at the storyteller despite having just talked about how they weren't going to keep doing this. They were all interested in learning about the time when birds were invisible and how Maui changed all that. The man brought up his hands and waved them with panache. This was his moment. Quote, "It was a long time ago.
17:15 Speaker 00 Maui walked among the humans visiting a village, and he was struck by the beauty of not just the songs, but the vibrant colors and plumage that flitted from tree to tree. Also, their dances were pretty funny." I added that part. There's a cool documentary on Netflix. "But no other one of those who lived in the long ago could see what Maui saw. They heard the mysterious music, but the songsters were invisible. Many were the fancies concerning these strange creatures whom they could hear but could not see. Maui finally pitied his friends and made the birds visible. Ever since, man has been able to both hear the music and see the beauty of his forest neighbors."
17:54 Speaker 00 What? The rest of the people looked at the storyteller as he stopped. What? You asked how Maui made birds visible, and I told you. The man returned to his dinner. No, you didn't tell us. You just said, "He did the thing." And you told us a couple of sentences saying, "He did the thing." You didn't say, "How he did the thing." This shipwrecked man chimed in. It is an informal logical fallacy called begging the question. Maybe circular reasoning, but, he continued, "I like it. How did he reveal the birds? Well, maybe the knowledge that something is there is enough for us to see it. It says more about Maui than anything. How his desire wasn't for renown or glory, but he did something just out of kindness.
18:39 Speaker 00 So humans could see a beautiful piece of the world they couldn't before. Also weird to be choosing this point to be picky about suspension of disbelief. Like, no one bats an eye when the guy pulls up islands or lassos the sun or kicks the sky, but revealing birds? No, that's, that's a step too far.
19:13 Speaker 00 We'll see the group finally get to it, but that will be right after this.
19:19 Speaker 01 Hey, it's Nile Rodgers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by my friend, John Legend. How does music actually enter your mind?
19:41 Speaker 02 I'm not sure why or how the music comes to me, but I think people who love music and write music, our brains are just filled with music. Like, we have listened to so much music. We've been a part of so much music. I think of the story that I want to tell, the mood that I want to create with the music. Start playing chords, see where they lead me.
20:02 Speaker 01 Sometime- I'm just not even thinking about music, right? And I hear this little thing and I go, oh, that could be this.
20:13 Speaker 02 You know, you just have to be ready for when the inspiration hits.
20:16 Speaker 01 It comes.
20:16 Speaker 02 Yeah.
20:17 Speaker 01 Experience before the moment. A Lincoln original series on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
20:40 Speaker 00 As evening fell, talk came to death. Not Maui's death, not yet, but death in general. One man was telling a story of what they believed death to be. Traveling for days, the men saw an island on the horizon. With that island in sight, they were saved. Somehow, they had gotten lost and worked through all their water and provisions and knew, knew that they would die out here on the ocean. An island meant water, it meant food, birds, coconuts. The sight meant that maybe they would see their homes and their families again. It also meant people. As their boats scraped on the shore, they heard beautiful singing from somewhere toward the island's interior.
21:25 Speaker 00 And a few men set out to find it, explain their situation, and make peace with whoever already lived there. The others, to allay their starvation, began harvesting coconuts and hunting birds on the beach. But something was wrong. The island was one of shadow. They could hold the coconuts, they could break them open, but when the men tried to scoop the flesh from within, their fingers and tools went right through. Arrows passed through birds, and their flights continued unimpeded, washing over the men on the beach. The unspoken revelation that something wasn't right here gained a voice when the others, who had ventured inland, came crashing through the trees, running straight from the boats.
22:10 Speaker 00 The group left soon after, and the men who ventured inland never spoke of what they saw. Their home, it turned out, was just over the horizon, and they made it the next day, but none of the men survived longer than a week. A quiet and forlorn despair presaged one death after another. "They were in the land of the dead," the Tongan man said. "That's where they belonged." After a long and doomed journey, they ran, as all do, but as people, we must rest. Death never rests. It's a slow, purposeful march, and it always reaches its destination. Some Samoans chuckled at that depiction of death.
22:54 Speaker 00 Everyone knew the land of the dead was a lava tube, a long, sloping, darkening descent into a place where only the very wise or very foolish walked without fear. "A lava tube? You think Maui could be defeated by a lava tube?" One of the Hawaiians laughed. "Or an island of shades. We know how Maui died. It was the eel." "What? No, Tituna died a long time ago." Everyone looked askance at the speaker. "No, Maui was chasing a boy and a girl. The girl climbed into the tree, Maui transformed into an eel, and a priest cut him in half. His blood went everywhere. That's why the rocks on this gulch are red. That, or he tore a mountain apart." "Okay, that's... Those are very different," one of the Samoan said. "But we actually have one, too.
23:39 Speaker 00 It happened right after he brought up the islands from the bottom of the ocean. One of the islands didn't want to come up, but now he brought it up anyway. The people on it, I guess, liked the bottom of the sea, and they, you know..." "No, obviously, we don't," one of the Maori sailors chimed in. "They killed him because they were mad they couldn't be under the sea anymore." "How did they kill him, though?" "How should I know? I probably wasn't even born yet." I actually heard something similar to that. A Maori man from the Cook Islands, but they weren't called that, said. Okay, so you should all probably compare notes. The man who had been shipwrecked on the island, living there before any of them, said. Slicing a bit of meat and taking a seat by the fire.
24:24 Speaker 00 Because by my count, we have at least three possible deaths for Maui. One from the Samoans and two different ones from the Hawaiian Islands. And we haven't even gotten to the Maori one. And their portent laden teaser that kicked this whole thing off. It wasn't a teaser, the Maori man said, clearly offended. He fully intended on telling the story only after the appropriate buildup, though. It was a way for him to capture interest early on, manage expectations and keep everyone invested. Um, you just described a teaser, the shipwrecked man said, but decided to let it drop. Okay, you want to know what happened to Maui? You want to hear how he really died? The official canon version? The Maori traveler grew impatient.
25:08 Speaker 00 I mean, I think I speak for everyone when I say, yes, we want to hear your version. I don't think we can really say one is more official or canon, the castaway said. And ignoring his attempts to consider the validity of the various views and stories of Maui with more equanimity, the traveler began with what he said was the official story of the death of Maui.
25:38 Speaker 00 You can see her there, on the edge of the world. Maui's father sat with him on the beach. Her name is Hine, which, yeah, we have a lot of Hines already. But this was Hine Nuitipo, great Hine of the night. She is the one that will overcome you, my son, the father said, and his head dropped to his chest. You're being really dramatic, Maui said, putting a hand on his father's shoulders. Squinting as he looked out, he could see it. The sun lighting the thatch of her house. He could almost make out the form of great Hine of the night, flashing before the darkness fell. Torches lit along the beach behind them as the people prepared for night.
26:23 Speaker 00 Maui's father didn't move from the sand. I've done so much, Dad. The gods have fought against me my whole life, and they've never won. Quote, "Do you think that I shall cease? Rather, I will persist forever and ever." If any character ever says that in a story, you know that they're going to die. But it wasn't dramatic irony or hubris. In any other story of his, Maui would have been right. Maui just didn't know the story he was in. "Death. Death is powerful," Maui's dad said. "You think your tricks will save you. There are forces in this world to whom
27:03 Speaker 00 your tricks are simply that. Tricks. They will treat you like you treat an insect under your foot. They will neither understand nor give a moment to your inane chitterings before crushing you without a thought." "This is my fault," his father said, turning with tears brimming in his eyes. "When you came to be with us, there were charms to protect you. You are not as eternal as you believe yourself to be. There's evil hanging over you. When I chanted the invocation of your childhood, when you were made sacred and guarded by charms, I forgot a part of the ceremony, and for this, you are to die."
27:45 Speaker 00 Maui looked left and right. That was new information, but okay, this great Hinay of the night. What is she like? Her flashing eyes could see far in the distance, and they were as dark as greenstone. Her teeth were as sharp as volcanic glass, and her mouth hung large and open, like that of a fish. Her hair floated in the air around her, like it was seaweed in water. Now he laughed. It sounded like his dad believed one too many stories. Okay, great Hinay of the night could see really far and had sharp obsidian teeth and scary hair. You know what that sounded like to him? Everyone. The shark guy he fought,
28:26 Speaker 00 the eel guy he fought, whose name was Tuna for some reason, he fought a fire goddess. Great Hinay of the night wasn't so special. She was just the most recent name in a long line of fish and people and fish people who wanted him dead. I earnestly hope that's the case, my son, Maui's father said, rising to his feet and hobbling back to the village. Maui stayed there on a log in the sand for a moment, looking at the moon light the waves. He could remain here forever, maybe. Make her death come for him. That wasn't who he was, though. Maui had spent his life helping people be people.
29:11 Speaker 00 Would he really spend the rest of that life like a worm, hiding under a rock waiting for the end to come? Maui looked toward the west and said, quote, "Let us investigate this matter and learn whether life or death shall follow." Hard unquote, he stood to face the stars of the night sky and screamed from deep in his chest, "Maui's assemble!" As far as assembling goes, the four other Maui brothers, yes, all named Maui, fumed as they left their respective houses. They had talked about this. Thanks for waking the baby, by the way. Their adventuring days had been fun. They'd been great. But now they had responsibilities, families.
29:54 Speaker 00 They couldn't just drop everything to go on some crazy adventure. Life was short, even for them. The moonlit Maui's grin. What if it wasn't, though? He didn't need much from them, other than a getaway car and maybe a witness. But if this went the way he thought it would go, and let's face it, everything goes the way he thinks it does, the five Maui's would go down in legend. They would defeat death. As far as ROI goes, the four Maui brothers couldn't get a better deal than this. By simply accompanying Maui to defeat death, they would be the literal undying legends.
30:35 Speaker 00 Of course, they wouldn't be the Justin Timberlake, Nick Carter, or Nick Lachey of the Maui Group. That was always Maui. They were happy with that Joey Fatone, Drew Lachey sweet spot of recognizable without the pressure to lead. But if they didn't go along, if they stay here, they risked being the Jeffrey, Jeffrey Justin, Justin Jeff. They can never remember. That was the problem. So, in the light of the full moon, the five brothers leapt in the boat, and they sailed west.
31:21 Speaker 00 We'll see if it's a good idea to confront death when she has home field advantage, but that will, once again, be right after this.
31:29 Speaker 01 Hey, it's Niall Rogers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by Miguel.
31:47 Speaker 03 My small experience with the discrepancy in the business of music made me angry in the best way. And I wanted to, I wanted to finish. So I started really like leaning into my therapy, trying to get down to like, what matters now. Somewhere, Miguelito felt like he didn't have a place to say how he felt. And music was the place that I went to, to say how I felt.
32:09 Speaker 01 Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
32:32 Speaker 00 "I do not wish for men to die, but live forever," Maui said, as his ship pressed further and further west, into endless night. His legs hung over the side of the boat. The other Maui nodded. "Death is degrading. It's an insult to the dignity of people. If people have to die, they ought to die like the moon, which dips in the life-giving waters and is renewed again. Or like the sun, which daily sinks into the pit of night and with renewed strength rises in the morning." Yep, same. Just basically, he said all the words that we were gonna say, but first, the fourth Maui said and nodded convincingly. "This is something we all believe, and it's our primary motivation, for sure." But Maui wasn't listening to them.
33:16 Speaker 00 There was another voice, on the wind. It was like a whisper. "Let death be very long, that man may sigh in sorrow. When man dies, let him go into the darkness. Become like earth, that those he leaves behind may weep and wail and mourn." Maui took a deep breath. As more and more of the stars went out, and even the moon grew dim, Maui knew that they couldn't avoid being seen forever. But what she had just done wasn't just confirmation. It was a provocation.
33:57 Speaker 00 She knew he was coming, and she wasn't scared of him in the least. The thing is, Maui wasn't your average demigod. She had called out to him, so he now knew where she was. Maui could listen in on her. She was speaking to her attendants, saying that she was expecting a visitor, a challenger. He would be a man, meaning he wouldn't walk on four legs on the ground, like animals. Back in the boat, hours later, the five Maui only knew they stopped when the hull scraped rocks and sand. They were now in complete darkness. When Maui stepped off the boat, though, and his foot found substance in the land of the
34:40 Speaker 00 dead, a pale light flickered to a faint glow on the edge of what appeared to be a forest. Maui stood tall. Turning, his brother's faces were visages of panic and despair, hanging disembodied in the darkness behind him. "Okay, I'm going in to see what we're up against. I'll be back when I need you to come follow," Maui said, and started walking. The brothers Maui nodded. Got it, boss. Then, wait. Did he say "follow"?
35:22 Speaker 00 Maui followed the ghost lights. And, from the trees around him, thought he somehow saw shadows of shadows. Eyes peering at him. He thought he heard whispers that grew louder and more urgent, warning him to turn back. When he came to the clearing, which seemed to be lit by moonlight, even though there was no moon in the sky, he... well, he didn't know what to do. He had been making it up as he went, but the great Hene of the Night, who ruled a land unlike any he had ever seen, maybe she was more powerful than he could handle. But improv and bravado had brought him this far, so, here goes.
36:03 Speaker 00 The attendants turned, their eyes snapping to the edge of the clearing, looking for this Maui. This person that walked on two legs, but it wasn't. It was a strange, almost hairless creature. In fact, it was pretty much exactly like great Hene of the Night said Maui would be, but this one wasn't walking on two legs. It was walking on four legs. So, no need to wake their mistress. They all agreed that they were great attendants, and that the best thing they could have done was adhere absolutely to the exact criteria their boss had laid out. Real quickly, I love the great Hene of the Night. The personification of Death, a legitimately terrifying deity, still has to deal with dopey henchmen. Well, henchpeople.
36:48 Speaker 00 Maui crawled past them. Maybe he barked, or mooed, or something, but after they ruled him not a threat, they almost ignored him, watching the tree line fervently to ensure that tricky Maui guy didn't get through. Maui crawled into the house where he saw her. Death. Her hair, floating around her like seaweed in a still ocean. She was sleeping, for now, but Maui had an idea.
37:29 Speaker 00 Maui had to listen for his brothers as he pushed his way through the forest, which was even more difficult with an armful of food and no lights at all. I don't know what great hene of the night's attendants thought Maui was when he emerged from the house. Maybe some sort of walking table? He had food piled on his back, but they weren't looking for tables, they were looking for Maui, so they let Maui off with a warning. Maui eventually returned to the boat, to his brothers who had managed to make a small fire on the beach, though it looked like the darkness itself was doing everything it could to smother the warmth and light in this place. Maui distributed the food and they all ate, but the food was more than nourishment. It was proof. He could do it.
38:13 Speaker 00 He could beat death. But how? How are you gonna kill her? One of the Maui asked. Kill her? What do you mean, kill her? That's her thing. That might just make her stronger. No. What's the opposite of death? Taxes? One Maui said. I think you might be misunderstanding that saying. Also, no. Life, another one said. That was too general. Very small rocks, a third Maui smiled, self-delighted. Birth, the oldest Maui snapped his fingers. Yes, Maui pointed. The Maui looked at their brother, Maui, and after the excitement of the reveal wore off, they were actually confused how he was going to be born? That had already happened.
38:58 Speaker 00 Well, you're just gonna have to see, Maui said. Also, he would need all of them to come see. Their faces shrank into the darkness, back toward the boat. Maui held up his palms. Okay, okay. He knew he told them they wouldn't have to do anything dangerous. He had a plan for that, too. Ten minutes and four taps from Maui's fish hook later, and the demigod trudged into the forest, following the ghost lights. Four birds, a tom-tit, a robin, a gray warbler, and a fantail, flapped off into the sky above and flew toward the illuminated clearing at the center of the wood. Maui huddled on the edge of the house while the attendants still patrolled the edge of the forest.
39:40 Speaker 00 They talked about how they were gonna leave this ape-dog thing and those four birds to their chitterings. They couldn't afford distractions when it came to catching Maui. Okay, quick content point. What happens next is very much part of the Maui story and Maui folklore. But if you're listening with people you don't want to have a birds and bees talk with, you can skip ahead exactly 3 minutes and 11 seconds. I expertly wove that audio in later. I bet you couldn't even tell. Anyway, you can skip it and read the bit on the website detailing exactly what happened, but I would imagine you can see where this is going. Back in the story, Maui said they could perch up where they could see him, watch him save the world, but they must be completely quiet.
40:24 Speaker 00 If they laughed, he would die and he was not even joking. The bird heads bobbed and the animals hopped or flapped to their hiding spots. So Maui's plan was to be born in reverse. Think about how people are generally born and then reverse it. So instead of coming out the bottom, he would enter that way and come out her mouth and thus defeat death so we would all be able to live forever. And we're kind of in an uncomfortable place already, so I'll just say it. As difficult as it maybe seem to believe, this is almost completely non-sexual. The actual act is not okay, ever, but it has a very clear birth-death framing.
41:09 Speaker 00 You know, not to over explain it. But Maui definitely should have explained it more because after he transformed into a worm, to make his passage a little easier, he heard something from above. No. The fantail chirped from the window opening. There was a nervous rustling from the other birds. As Maui proceeded with the first phase of his journey, and like a baby's head is ideally the first part that comes out, for Maui, it was the first part that went in. And to the fantail, one of the Maui's, this was hilarious. Oh my gosh. He was never gonna let Maui live this down. Maui, as it turned out...
41:56 Speaker 00 Would never live it down. The fantail, the riririro, either didn't know or didn't care how loud he was being. He also knew that the teeth, the ones made of obsidian, their father described, were not only in her mouth. Great Hene of the Night's eyes blazed as she awoke with an enraged scream. The worm, that wasn't a worm for long, was mangled and torn. And as it transformed back into Maui, the brothers could see what happened. Maui's upper torso was in pieces, but it was when his head rolled to the floor, severed
42:39 Speaker 00 by those obsidian teeth, that they knew Maui had lost. Death had won, and she would now be able to come for all of us, completely unabated. False! One of the storytellers spoke up. He died, one of the Maori storytellers said. Of course he died, are we immortal? But that's not how it happened, no, that's just obscene. The man waved his hand. He would tell the real way. He'd pick right up after the birds flew into the room and Maui crept toward the sleeping form of Great Hene of the Night. Maui waved the birds off, and they found their hiding places. And Maui walked up to Great Hene of the Night, who was lolling back in her chair, giant
43:24 Speaker 00 mouth open because she's a snorer, and he started climbing in. Maui had to go down and get her heart and then be born out of her mouth. But the birds laughed, she woke up, bit him in half, and he died. The rest of the group sat confused and unsatisfied. That sounds like bottlerization, one person finally spoke up.
43:48 Speaker 00 It was his turn to earn confused glances from the group. You know, figleafing, expurgation? At that word, the men nodded. That final word made sense. Boldrization wouldn't be a thing until Thomas Boldrers 1818 version of William Shakespeare, where he trimmed out the questionable bits for Regency era sensibilities. Though, in my mind, it's more commonly associated with Victorian era English writers. By the way, this is sort of a confused version from one text where the writer clearly had something else in mind, but changed things. Where everyone could agree, though, was that Maui's brothers were allowed to take his body. Death had won. There would be no redemption for those who had gone before.
44:31 Speaker 00 And for all those who would follow, their lot would be, as great Hene of the Night had said, "to go into darkness, become like earth, that those they leave behind may weep and wail and mourn."
45:02 Speaker 00 There were a smattering of other Maui stories told over the next day or so. One of the most interesting was that, after Maui was taken back from the laughing, victorious form of great Hene of the Night and buried in a secret cave somewhere where he could rest in peace, his wife, quote, "made war upon the spirits, the gods, and killed as many as she could to avenge her husband's death." That's literally all anyone has to say on the matter, and it's too bad, because that sounds like an awesome story. The brothers did their work in spreading the story of Maui across the world, how he had died valiantly and warned people to cling to one another in the face of the darkness to come. On the second night, though, the people who came from all over the known world cooked
45:47 Speaker 00 food over the fires while sitting out under the sky, the sky that was too high to touch any of them, held aloft so they could sail and explore this beautiful world. They listened to the bird song and watched the creatures move this way and that, and knew that tomorrow would come and would have enough time for all they had to do and for all they wanted to do. All of this was him, was Maui. So, maybe he's not gone? Like, really gone? The shipwreck survivor? The one who had made a home on this island over the many years of solitude, asked. Finally. "You're right, my friend." One of the older travelers patted him on the back. "He's not really dead, as long as we remember him."
46:31 Speaker 00 The shipwreck survivor said, "No, he wasn't talking about Mr. Spock. He was talking about Maui, the famous trickster." Wouldn't his death, in the most mock-heroic way possible, be his last, best trick? Maybe he's living in secret out there, or even among you? The rest of the people smiled a sad smile. That old man put his hand on the stranger's back. Maui's death was his final gift. "In many ways, we are his children. In some tales, he takes humans, blobs of flesh and bone, pulls arms and legs out and breaks those to give us knees and elbows. He gave us fire and daylight. He raised the sky and fought the monsters of the deep.
47:13 Speaker 00 Maybe he knew death would always come, so that's why the last thing he could give us was a warning, to cherish life and to take it seriously, because it ends for everyone, even demigods. And he left us with this world, where the big problems, like the sky hanging down and the people not having arms or fire, were taken care of, and that we, humans, would need to learn how to get by on our own. Isn't that something every teacher or parent is preparing their charge for? A world without them?" The shipwrecked stranger waved a tear from his eye. "I mean, yeah, that was beautiful, but, I mean, wasn't it convenient that he brought his brothers along, leading directly to his death?
47:58 Speaker 00 The shapeshifter's death? And they ended up telling everybody?" The rest of the group rolled their eyes. "Ugh, okay, they could see why this guy liked being alone. Way to kill the moment."
48:20 Speaker 00 The following day, everyone woke early to set out on their long journey home. And pretty much all the boats offered the shipwrecked stranger a spot, but he turned them all down. From their stories, it seemed like the world out there had changed. When his ship went down, he lost everything. There was nothing and no one waiting for him out there, but here, he had peace. He thanked them, but he would be returning to his little farm here to live out his life. He clasped arms with the men of the last boat. Several minutes later, that ship sailed from their harbor and unfurled their sails. One man was looking back at the beach, though, at the stranger waving goodbye.
49:04 Speaker 00 It turned out he was the only one, because everyone else was engrossed in their duties. That stranger was still standing and waving, but then the man blinked, and he was gone. The man tried to get everyone's attention, pointing out the grand hawk that was rising from the trees and into the sky, bigger than any he had ever seen, but by the time the next person looked, the hawk was gone, having crossed to the other side of the island to fly off somewhere over the sea.
49:49 Speaker 00 Real quickly, last time, and I guess every time, we told sort of a general Polynesian Maui, trying to do what we do and sort through the stories to find what's generally agreed to be canon. That doesn't feel so right anymore, especially for a character like Maui, whose stories spanned so many cultures and people groups, where not all those people groups would have liked to have their uniqueness and identity flattened out and made identical to the others, who they might have even had conflicts with. Of course, the stories I had access to and could reproduce here were written by 19th century British guys, so while I tried to get it right, I very much hope- I didn't paint with too broad of a brush. The frame narrative was just that, a fun, story-focused way to bring everyone together
50:34 Speaker 00 and talk about how these stories come from different cultures without painfully spelling that out like I'm actually doing right now. Real quickly, this episode's, like all the others, going long. If you didn't know already, Myths and Legends has a book coming out. We're so excited to share it. It's the first book in a series, comes out December 1st. And if, honestly, if you like the podcast, if you like the writing, you are gonna love this book. It's a comprehensive telling of the King Arthur legends, and it stays true to the original, but it makes it so much more alive and exciting. If you'd like to support the show, the book comes out December 1st, but it's available for preorder now, and those are so important. So, all the links in the show notes. Thank you so much. The creatures this time are the Menahune, from the Hawaiian Islands.
51:18 Speaker 00 There are a couple different thoughts on the Menahune. The six-inch to two-foot-tall magical people who like bananas and fish. The first is that they're still out there, being tricky, and maybe messing with your stuff and making you fall in love. Like some creatures, and also people, they shoot arrows at people's hearts. Their arrows only destroy you emotionally, though, and then only if it doesn't work out, because they'll make you fall in love. It is limited to angry people, though, so maybe chill out and you won't have to worry about tiny arrows making you care about stuff and people. Their main attribute, though, is their love of building. Apparently, there are several structures, mostly on Kauai and Oahu, attributed to them. The catch?
52:02 Speaker 00 They don't like to be seen, and they will never take more than one night. If the grand thing they're working on takes past dawn, it will never be completed. I mean, I feel like celebrating this is a little unfair, because when I get super excited and spend hours working on a project, only to leave it once and never touch it again, it's an ADHD hyperfixation. But when a creature does it, oh, it's magical art. Their powers vary, with one story of three Menahune, one whose name meant "to tremble", who could start shaking and become invisible, one whose name meant "quick and nimble". And could move so fast no one could follow. And the last, whose name meant lazy. He was lazy, except that while he appeared to be napping,
52:47 Speaker 00 his magical self would go around the island and do good deeds. I actually have that power, too. Whenever I appear to be napping or zoning out, that's me being Batman. Somewhere else, invisibly. The other version of this creature is less interesting for Creature of the Week, but more interesting from an anthropological perspective. In that there are some who believe that these are long extinct residents of the island who built structures before the first recorded stories took place. An obvious issue with this theory is that no one has ever found any burial sites for the two-foot-tall denizens, or any remains whatsoever. Counterpoint? Maybe they were just really good at hiding and still have never been found.
53:37 Speaker 00 That's it for this time. Myths and Legends is by Jason and Carissa Weiser. Our theme song is by Broke for Free, and the Creature of the Week music is by Steve Colmes. There are links to even more of the music we used in the show notes. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next time.
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55:11 Speaker 01 Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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