422: Scottish folklore: Witchful Thinking

🧙‍♂️So you've decided to steal from a witch or wizard🧙‍♀️Are you sure about that? If you are, you might want to think about what you're going to do more than the characters in today's stories from Scotland and Norway. Especially if, like them, you end up stealing way more than you bargained for. 😈 The Creature: ewaipanoma The headless friends of all the children in South America. No you can't see them. Why would you even ask. Oh, you didn't? Well, you still can't see them. --- Links: 📚️ All of Fictional season 6 is available!: https://fictional.fm/subscribe 💬 Discord: https://myths.link/discord 📷️ Instagram: https://myths.link/instagram ✍️ Bluesky: https://myths.link/bluesky --- 📢 Sponsors Home Chef: For a limited time, Home Chef is offering my listeners 50% off and free shipping for your first box plus free dessert for life! Go to https://homechef.com/legends BetterHelp: This episode is sponsored by Betterhelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at https://betterhelp.com/myths GhostBed: Right now, during GhostBed’s Black Friday Sale, you can get 25% off already-reduced prices, plus a free gift of the GhostBed Massaging Neck Pillow with your mattress purchase. Just go to GhostBed.com/legends http://GhostBed.com/legends and use promo code LEGENDS at checkout. Mint Mobile: Don’t get them socks. Get them premium wireless for $15/mo. Shop Mint Unlimited Plans at https://mintmobile.com/legends. --- 🎵 Music Credits "DeeDee Jackdaw" by Blue Dot Sessions "Dorica Theme" by Blue Dot Sessions "Marble Chase" by Blue Dot Sessions "ShadowPlay" by Blue Dot Sessions "Tenaway" by Blue Dot Sessions

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This week on Myths and Legends, there are three stories of witches and wizards. You'll see how to become the most popular person at work with your unlimited milk parties, how every stray cat is apparently a witch in disguise, and that you should maybe have any plan at all if you're gonna go rob a wizard's castle. The creature this week is what happens when you listen to kids going on and on about their giant headless friends.

• 0:32Speaker 00

  This is Myths and Legends, episode 422, Witchful Thinking.

• 0:40Speaker 00

  This is a podcast where we tell stories from mythology and folklore. Some are incredibly popular tales you might think you know, but with surprising origins. Others are stories that might be new to you, but are definitely worth a listen. Today, there are three-ish stories of witches and wizards. Mostly from Scotland, but there's one from Norway, too. They're fairy tales, so not terribly concerned with history. And we'll jump in with Gilly McDonald, local tavern owner, who just learned of a dangerous wizard and an intriguing rumor that might just lure him to the castle overlooking the sea.

• 1:24Speaker 00

  "Hey, uh, wait a minute before you go to bed, okay?" Gilly McDonald asked the slightly older man, as he let his boots find the planks and would eventually find the stairs to his room. The traveling peddler swayed at the table. He had so much to drink that he wasn't sure how much say he had over the matter of when bed was coming. But all right, least he could do for a host like Gilly McDonald. Gilly found the man's cup, and the smile was soon dribbling with stout, when Gilly asked the man if he might elaborate on something he said earlier about a fortune that could be had if only for the digging, if someone had a brave heart and a stout spirit to attempt it. The peddler burped, "Oh, he was just talking, but...

• 2:09Speaker 00

  Well, actually, there might be something to that story, if he was being honest, which he sometimes was. It's on the west side of the Quintara Peninsula, a day's journey from here on horseback. And across the loch and by the road over the ridge- From Tarbert. There's the castle of Tekronen. Gilly poured the man half a glass. He needed to keep him lubricated, but not have him fall to pieces. The peddler continued. There was a castle out there, an evil old man, a wizard, some say. He, the peddler, was out that way because he heard of the man was rich, and he was. Through the gates, he spotted the man burying gold in the garden, a lot of it. It was like he was planting potatoes. He asked about the man here and there and learned all sorts of odd things.

• 2:53Speaker 00

  And knowing those things, he was grateful to have come away with his life. If he was a younger, stronger, braver, and, well, a more confident man, so a completely different person altogether, he would go back there for the gold. His increasingly glassy eyes studied Gilly, and then widened. No, he didn't mean to awaken something in Gilly. Gilly had a good thing here, a tavern, a farm, friends. He could marry and raise a family. Gilly laughed. Of course he hadn't. These were just stories from a mostly honest peddler, right? The peddler grinned and nodded. Yes, he was a scamp. And now, after a quick vomit, he was off to bed.

• 3:36Speaker 00

  He went outside and relieved himself of his stomach contents and otherwise, and made it as far as the couch before he passed out. Gilly, though, later on that night, laid, staring at the ceiling. He had always known that he was different from all the other people. They wanted to settle down and have families. He never even had a sweetheart. It held absolutely no interest to him, at least in the same way it had to his peers, most of which now had homes with a mess of kids. He understood what they saw, but he didn't feel it himself. He enjoyed the companionship of the tavern, but he felt this... Pull towards something new and big and different.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  The castle was just a day's ride on the west side of the Kentire Peninsula. Worst case, he made new friends in the strange old man who also didn't mind being alone. Best case, maybe he could be one of the heroes from the old stories. Gilly was up early, but not early enough to beat the peddler, who, even with the previous night's festivities, must have been up and out well before the sun. It was a pity he didn't get more out of the man, or at least learn how he knew the stranger was a wizard. Still, he knew where the castle was and the treasure too, and that should be enough. He spent the day putting the tavern in order. He gave instructions to his head servant, Lachland, who stood a little straighter when he learned he would be running the place for the next few days.

• 5:03Speaker 00

  The very next morning, when the sun was just beginning to light up the east, he rode his gray mare into the waning night, off toward the ferry over Loch Fyne.

• 5:29Speaker 00

  It's common for tailors to travel between farmhouses to work. The tailor, traveling between farmhouses for work, told Gilly as Gilly was riding by. Oh, cool? I think that's actually something that I know, or would know. Thanks for letting me know. Gilly smiled politely. Just letting you know why I'm out walking at this early hour. I'm not going to kill or rob you, the tailor smiled. I, uh, wow, I didn't think you would, but... Gilly trailed off. Okay, wow, that tone was a little patronizing, the man scowled. He would have Gilly know that he could kill and rob him if he wanted to. He just didn't want to, because violence and murder repulsed him.

• 6:14Speaker 00

  Okay, I'm, I'm leaving now. Gilly spurred his horse directly into a canter and took off. We'll stick with the tailor, though, as he heads to work at the new farmhouse. Wait, for real? The tailor began to grow nervous. You're sticking with me? I'm just a traveling Scottish tailor. I, uh, whatever this is, you don't replace my really cool accent with some milquetoast Midwestern American garbage. All right, yes, um, okay, I'm a tailor. I travel from place to place because clothes at all times wear out. And while a lot of towns have tailors, some don't. And there's a convenience factor to the farmers to just have tailors come by and stay a few days and fix what needs fixing and head on. I'm young, so I don't mind.

• 6:59Speaker 00

  I get to see some of the country and meet some interesting people. It's good, the tailor said. I mean, now that we're walking, it's, it's, it's kind of a long walk. It's a long walk to the farm. Honestly, I kind of thought that you were just hard cut to the interesting stuff, but maybe you want to get to know me. All right, um, yeah, I mean, I'm a tailor, but I have other interests. I do some light embroidery, crests are big, some cuffs. Um, oh, I've been getting into dyes, figuring out new dyes, so that's been fun. Bogmyrtle brings out an interesting, like vibrant green. Uh, let's see, oh, I do, I do archery, as is required by law, and whittling. Oh, that's so fun. That's a, you know, that's actually, it reminds me of a story. It's a cherished memory from my father.

• 7:42Speaker 00

  He did anything from tiny figurines to really ornate stuff. It was so cool. The tailor chuckled. He was surprised he was so interesting. I guess I need to have a higher opinion of myself because I thought I was boring. And like I said, you were just hard cut. We already have two tailors here, the woman on the farm said to the traveling tailor an hour later. But it has been a long time since we've had anyone out, so you can stay for a couple of days. You're just in time for breakfast, the woman waved him in. The tailor forced a smile and sat down at the table while the woman called for the other farm workers to come eat. Don't think I didn't notice that, the tailor whispered to us. I start to open up and boom, you're gone, until there's non-me dialogue. Oh, here they

• 8:26Speaker 00

  come, he said. There were a lot of workers, a couple other traveling tailors he tried to move in different directions from, not because they were bad or anything, but he didn't need the competition. They're no competition, the tailor chuckled. Who's no competition? One of the farmhands asked. The tailor's eyes widened. Oh, that was just like, that was just like a joke that I heard earlier. That was funny because, you know, it was a joke and jokes are funny. What was it? The man asked. Others focused in on the tailor. Yeah, they liked jokes and they didn't have access to the entirety of human entertainment for a few dollars at a moment's notice. So the bar was really low. He had nothing to worry about.

• 9:08Speaker 00

  Oh, food, yummy, yummy, yummy, the tailor pointed to the woman's porridge as she set it on the table before the workers and started pouring milks into the clay cups from a basin. The men at the table grunted, hm, at the tailor and his non-existent joke, and picked up their spoons. Nailed it, the tailor thought. He did not, in fact, nail it. Okay, the tailor grimaced before smiling at the woman and rubbing his hands. But she was out. He was one of the last positions at the table, and the milk basin, the one that had just come in from the barn, was out. Wordlessly, the woman left and, in a moment, came back with another full basin, filling up his milk and leaving him with a plate of food.

• 9:53Speaker 00

  Did you see that? The tailor nudged the groom next to him. The man put his food in his mouth rather than let words come out of it. She left with a basin and in an instant, came back with more milk, the tailor marveled. That's not normal, he shook his head. The groom didn't put down his spoon, but replied that the tailor would notice a few strange things around here. But none of them bad. If he, the tailor, was looking for advice, and since he spoke up about this, he evidently required it, he should keep his mouth shut, unless it was too insurmountable a problem that his breakfast was exceedingly fast and fresh.

• 10:32Speaker 00

  After lunch, while at the low bench outside, the tailor shook his head. It was weird. Something was weird about this place. "Like I said, something is up here. No one gets milk that fast. You know, I just don't want to be in a situation where I'm being disemboweled by cultists. I'm sorry if I'm old fashioned like that," the tailor said, but then stopped with his needlework. "I don't suppose you could help me out with this?" he asked, not understanding how hetero-diegetic narration with internal focalization worked. "Okay, just say no next time. You don't have to try to flex with your literary theory nonsense words." The tailor just went back to work.

• 11:24Speaker 00

  "Oh, nice to see you again," the tailor said the following morning. Next to him, a fellow tailor shot a sour glance. "Relax, I wasn't talking to you," our tailor said, as the farmer's wife emerged with the food and the milk basin. He sat at the front of the table, first up because he was gonna catch her in the act. One of the other tailors had disappeared mysteriously in the night. Some said his work was finished and he left, but our tailor knew better. He knew where that milk was coming from. She sacrificed him for milk, not he. He shook his head and gasped. "The woman was out of milk. It was time to go." The tailor slipped away so quietly that no one commented at all, definitely not because

• 12:07Speaker 00

  no one at the farm liked him and was happy to be rid of him even for just a quick bathroom break. "Okay, I looked up how internal focalization works, and that's not it," the tailor finished slipping through the rooms that ran parallel to where the woman walked and crouched behind a chair in the shadows at the edge of the house. "You can't know something I don't know unless I know how abrasive I am with people and push them away while yearning for human connection, but this way of relating is all I know," and he gasped again, waving us over and pointing. "Look!" He knew it. There, against the far wall, she turned a pin that was stuck in the wall. And milk, pure, white, fresh milk flowed into the basin.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Twisting it righty-tighty, the flow of milk stopped. Then the tailor rushed back to the table and to his seat before she returned. But he looked on her with fresh terror, for he knew the wife, the woman of the house, was a witch.

• 13:20Speaker 00

  At around 11, with the farmer's wife having left almost an hour prior to get something in town, the tailor heard the statement he had been waiting for all day. "Man, I am thirsty," one of the other tailors sharing the big table with him said. "I don't know if it's all day," our tailor muttered, kind of missing his moment. "Right, yes," the tailor said, and turned. "How would you like some milk?" "I would like that very much. Are you gonna go out and milk a cow for us?" the annoyed tailor said annoyedly. "I can do you one better," the tailor grinned, rose, and, taking a basin into his hand, strutted over to the pen in the wall.

• 14:01Speaker 00

  Making sure the thirsty tailor was watching, he turned the pen and milk started to flow. "What in the world?" the thirsty tailor rose. "Yeah, I know. I saw her do it this morning. She must be a witch," he said. And the tailor at the table shook his head before throwing open a window, yelling to everyone working outside that they had to come see this. The workers spilled into the room just as the first basin was filling up. But, once they all got over their collective amazement, there were so many more basins to be filled. It was a milk party, and the tailor was happy. For once, he was the life of the party, and everyone wanted to be his friend.

• 14:44Speaker 00

  He had to twist the pen more to increase the stream. And increase the stream he did. It flowed from a trickle to a pour, and, one by one, he filled up basins, mugs, and at least one boot, to laughs and to slap on the back. "Who's up?" the tailor yelled, waving, but turned to face a room full of shrugs and shaky milk mustaches. The tailor said, "Oh, okay," and reached for the pen to turn off the stream. But it didn't turn off, because there was no pin. With the growing flow, the pin had evidently been swept away. Oh, okay, two things. If your milk feels especially sharp or pin-like,

• 15:26Speaker 00

  it is not in fact milk. That's a pin, and you shouldn't drink it. Also, I can't shut this thing off. Half the room was gone at the second part of that sentence, seeing the writing on the wall, or rather, the milk flowing out of the wall that no one could stop, and guessing that the witch that owned the milk would turn them into newts or something. The other half, maybe feeling charitable, maybe similarly implicated with their milk burps and milk ringlets down their beards, went to work trying to plug the hole. Plugging it did nothing. It's like when you put your finger on the opening to a hose, and it just sprays, because the milk just sprayed around the room. With the pin gone, there was no regulation, and the milk poured out in buckets.

• 16:11Speaker 00

  The first pained moose went up from the barn down the hill, and then the barn directly outside. Just then, there was a peal of thunder, and something quite like, but almost the complete opposite of, lightning, when, with a flash of darkness that seemed to linger for a moment, the farmer's wife hit the ground outside. Throwing open the door, the now shin-deep milk flowed on her shoes, before she waved her hand and diverted it around her in both directions. She walked into the kitchen. "You. I saw you watching and figured you were smart enough to keep this to yourself." She sneered, eyes leveled on the tailor, while her hand waved over the gallons of milk on the floor. "I've never been so wrong in my life," the witch said.

• 16:55Speaker 00

  The pin flew up from the ocean of milk and into her hand, where she took it between her fingers. Flinging the tailor away from the wall with the flick of her wrist, she replaced the pin, and the milk stopped. "You've drawn all the milk from every cow between the head of the yarrow and the foot of it. Not a single cow will give her master a drop of milk today, even if you were going to starve," the witch said, and turned to face the rest of the room, who immediately fled from her presence. The tailor, soaked in the now quickly draining milk, found the witch standing over him. He winced, anticipating his imminent nudification, but found something worse when she pushed the mop and bucket into his hand.

• 17:36Speaker 00

  "You will clean this entire house, or I'll turn back time and make you clean it again, over and over, until it's perfect," she said. "Is that... Can you do that?" The tailor sat terrified. "Do you want to find out?" The witch asked, and, waving her hands, a new non-milky dress unfroiled from the shoulders down, replacing her soiled one, and she strode from the room. One would hope the tailor understood now about playing with forces and powers he didn't fully understand and putting himself in physical and probably metaphysical danger in order to be popular, but... "Oh, okay, is that the lesson, then? Is that what I am to you? A cautionary tale? You know, I don't want this.

• 18:21Speaker 00

  I don't like it. Being the main character, it's horrible. I just want to do my job and not go through these challenges and grow and all that nonsense." The tailor threw down his sponge and stood. "I had a good, unexamined life before you. You, you go. I don't want this. Go on, go on, get. You leave if you know what's good for you," he yelled, waving off to the horizon with his empty threats. But that's where we'll leave the tailor and his boring, sad life, committing to never growing or changing in any way, as we head back across the lowlands, to Tarbert, where we will catch up with Gilly McDonald. But that will be right after this. "Oh, one ad break. Real classy."

• 19:05Speaker 00

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• 21:49Speaker 00

  The little acrobat flipped on the paved stones, coming mere inches from dashing his head and whatever was in it on the rocks, but he did so to thunderous applause. It had been a while since Gilly had ridden as far as Tarbert, and it was just by happenstance that he managed to do so on one of the days of the fair. There were all sorts of singers and performers and entertainers, and Gilly was entranced. And the little acrobat, it seemed, could spot a mark, or at least a patron of his very specific art. "Oh, I'm sorry, but a copper will have to do," Gilly said with a wink, as he pressed a coin into the man's hand, after snapping out of his wonder. "I'm out seeking treasure, too."

• 22:31Speaker 00

  Maybe because that's a weird way to end a conversation, maybe because the little acrobat found that familiarity naturally led to more coins in his purse, the acrobat turned up his little red nose and sparkling eyes and looked at the man. What did that mean? "Oh, well, I mean to get a fortune by digging, not dancing," Gilly brushed off the line of questioning with the likely unintentional insult. The little man abandoned his routine and found Gilly's path, as Gilly turned to leave. "And where can a fortune be got by digging?" he asked, though his words didn't hold the tone of a question. "It's over the hills to the west, not far away." "Good day," Gilly said, sighing with relief that the man stopped his line of inquiry

• 23:16Speaker 00

  there, instead saying a "goodbye" that also carried a strange tone. That was two days ago, and Gilly was now just about ready to leave Tarbert. He told himself he stayed so long to visit with an old friend, also a tavern keeper, and because he had a free room and hot meals. But if he searched his feelings and been true with himself, there was something unsettling about that little man. The morning after the fair broke and the travelers scattered to the wind, Gilly MacDonald said his goodbyes at the inn and made his way west from Tarbert. If he was quick about it, he could make Castle Tachronin before nightfall, though what he was going to do there in the lair of a supposedly evil wizard, he had absolutely no idea.

• 24:12Speaker 00

  It's a magical land, friend, Gilly McDonald heard as he rode up to the farmhouse just outside of Tarbert. It wasn't so much riding up to it as riding past it, and a particularly talkative man with a heavy laden sack swinging by his side trotted out to meet him. It, yeah, it is a magical world we live in, for sure, Gilly nodded. It's a beautiful day. Good day! But the stranger maneuvered his own horse in front of Gilly. Hmm. Interesting reply to that statement. He meant that it's a magical world we live in, so beware. Witches and wizards and monsters lurk everywhere, and magic must be stomped out with violence and fury. Okay, then, that, Gilly replied.

• 24:57Speaker 00

  I was just saying good morning. I don't want to get involved in whatever this is. I think I'm actually on the road to rob a wizard? With this, the man's smile ignited. Excellent. These people need to know they're not safe, as long as we feel unsafe. And since their existence makes us feel unsafe, they must be hunted, he chuckled. Yeah, I'm something of a witch hunter myself. The man crossed his arms and sat up in the saddle. Here, rest a bit. I'll tell you my tale. Seeing that this man was not the most... stable, and not wanting to arouse his ire and gain the attention of the other self-proclaimed witch hunters in the area, Gilly listened politely to his tale. His tale of murder cats.

• 25:39Speaker 00

  Well, they weren't murderous, not yet, but every cat has the soul of a murderer. They're just waiting on the opportunity. He had been passing through town and stopped off at a mill, where he offered to stay the night to keep it from getting burned down again. For some reason, the miller thought the stranger was threatening to burn down his mill, but allowed the man to stay there to guard against any funny business, since there had been rumors of witches in the area. Now, the traveler had some chalk on him and drew a circle because, I guess like ants, witches can't cross a line of chalk. Little-known fact. Anyway, the night wore on, and who should arrive? But cats. The stranger stopped his story, that detail not getting the reaction he was hoping for. I said, "Cats."

• 26:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, stray cats, so what? No, no, no, my friend slash possible interrogatee, the stranger said. There was a whole gaggle of them, a swarm. And these cats wanted one thing. Uh, the wet food? Pets? Chinny's? Gilly McDonald asked. No, evil, they wanted to do evil. The cats worked together to set up a cauldron on the fireplace. And they built a fire underneath. In a matter of several minutes to nearly half an hour, the cauldron bubbled with something thick and dark, something that almost looked like pitch. Finally, one of the cats made to tip it over or touch it, I don't know what goes on in a demon's mind, what their fiendish designs were, I knew not.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  But I warned them, I said, "Watch, cat, or you'll burn yourself." And do you know what they did? They mocked me, they said, "Watch, cat, or you'll burn yourself," to one another, and they laughed. Laughed and danced closer to the pot. I yelled at them that they couldn't cross my protective circle, the stranger sneered. But did Gilly know what the witches did? They crossed his protective circle. He had no choice, he had to defend himself. From pussycats to dancing, singing pussycats. Even if they were actual demons, that just sounds like the movie Cats, but less off-putting. Gilly mused, but the stranger ignored him.

• 27:52Speaker 00

  I cut off the first cat's paw who crossed my line. They all fled in terror, the stranger laughed. The next morning, the miller woke up happy to see that his mill wasn't burned down. But sad, because his wife wouldn't rise from bed. I told him I would see what I could do to help, knowing that I would never be able to heal her. I knew, because I can't heal evil. As I found her pale and writhing in her quarters, I pulled back the covers of her bed to reveal her arm, severed halfway up the forearm. The miller shrieked, and I explained the story as I revealed the piece de resistance, the cat's paw that had been severed in the night by my bravery. But it wasn't a cat's paw, it was the remains of a human arm,

• 28:35Speaker 00

  one that perfectly matched the miller's wife, for she was a witch. And it was her coven that harassed me that night. And she was executed the following day, the stranger said. That was the beginning of his witch hunting career. Wait, that, that wasn't what happened at this mill? Gilly pointed. The man guffawed, "What?" "No, that happened in Norway." "This was just the simple case of another rival witch hunter, "who shot a stag with a silver bullet." "You only shoot stuff with silver if you think it might be witches, "because silver bullets hurt them." "Yeah, I mean, also silver bullets hurt anyone," Gilly observed. "But yeah, you shoot some animals, and if it hits, "and they transform into a woman, "you go collect the money from the local magistrate for identifying a witch.

• 29:19Speaker 00

  "If you hit them, but it's not serious enough, "you go to the woman in questions' house and remove the silver bullet, "and you just let justice run its course. "In that case, you actually get a cut of her possessions." "Anyway, what happened here was that a man was out hunting. "He hit a stag this morning, and it limped away. "He showed up here and pulled the silver bullet out of her leg." "The guy got an actual witch, huh, lucky." Gilly shifted in his saddle, "Okay, um, hm. "It is weird if you shoot an animal and then are able to pick that same bullet "out of an injured person," Gilly said. "But isn't the former bringing in a woman killed by a silver bullet, "claiming she had been in animal form when shot? "Well, isn't that ripe for abuse?

• 30:02Speaker 00

  "What's to stop someone from just shooting people and claiming they were witches?" The stranger grew serious. "Is what a witch would say," Gilly smiled. The stranger broke into a laugh, "Yep, yep, eh, yeah." "He went, 'Don't go giving away trade secrets.'" Gilly said his goodbyes and rode away from that place as quickly as he could.

• 30:37Speaker 00

  It started as a feeling. The feeling that Gilly wasn't alone on the road. Behind him, to his right. Maybe he caught a glimpse of something when he turned. Maybe he could sense it, but someone, some thing, was there. Drawing his knife and turning with emotion, he faced a laugh. A laugh and a cloak. The cloak was unfamiliar, but the laugh, he recognized it. A hunchback hobbled beside his walking horse. Looking up from under a small mound of cloak, the face was a familiar one. The little acrobat from Tarbert. "Well met," the man said. Gilly replied with the same.

• 31:21Speaker 00

  "We are fellow travelers," I see, the man with the hunchback observed. And Gilly nodded. "For the present, yes." The thing about the present moment, though, is that it arrives in an instant and it's gone just as fast. Gilly urged his horse onto a trot and sped off at a pace too fast for the walker to comfortably keep himself. "We'll meet again, maybe," before long, a voice and a laugh echoed through the trees behind him. A mile later, Gilly eased up on his horse's gallop. And, snorting and breathing, the gray mare seemed glad for it. He eased the mare into a gentle walk to navigate the descent down the path toward Rannican Bay, the wind from the sea below rustling the trees.

• 32:05Speaker 00

  When he got close to the seawall, he heard something else on the wind. A "well met." Turning toward the large willow, he saw that same smiling face with the reddish nose and nearly sparkling eyes. But it was up too high. The face wasn't on the body of the little acrobat or the hunchback, but a man as small as himself, Gilly MacDonald. And Gilly MacDonald was not a small man. The man strode out onto the road, still grinning. "We are fellow travelers," I see, said, quote, "the thing," as he squinted horribly with his ugly eyes. "For the present," Gilly practically yelped, and the present moment this time was somehow

• 32:47Speaker 00

  even shorter, as Gilly spurred his horse directly into that gallop and rushed past the man, who made no move to stop him or even keep up. "We'll meet again, maybe, before long," the man said, and Gilly could hear him over the horse's hooves in the dirt.

• 33:16Speaker 00

  We'll see who else Gilly meets on the road, but that will, once again, be right after this. Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids, but what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates? Where do you even start? Well, protecting your home and auto is a great place to start. Progressive offers customized coverage options so you can be sure you have the right coverage for you and your loved ones. They're basically the outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, and baby gates of insurance. Don't wait. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company, affiliates, and other insurers. Not available in all states.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  Hey, it's Niall Rogers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by my friend, John Legend. So you're helping Will.i.am write hooks. What made "Ordinary People" become the one song from those sound checks you knew you had to make your own?

• 34:26Speaker 02

  I was just writing for the Black Eyed Peas. I wasn't expecting to write something for myself in that session, but I wrote the hook for "Ordinary People." And I recorded a demo, and I'm like, I would rather keep "Ordinary People" for myself. This station in Chicago, WGCI, they start playing it before we're promoting it. The song spoke for itself. It became the defining song for my first album. I knew it was special, but you never know how special it's going to be and how much impact it's going to have in people's lives. And you never believe that you're going to actually change people's lives with a song.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 35:04Speaker 04

  Hey, this is Mario Lopez from All Mario Lopez Daily Podcast. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla sedan with the latest features Tech, or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at traded. So get a great deal today and great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 35:54Speaker 00

  A couple of hours later, and with the sun and sea breeze, not even the strangeness of his fellow travelers could keep Gilly upset for long. He was on the low road by the bay now, making good time toward the castle. He squinted, that, hm, that didn't make any sense. Most places, they would have built the road around a big gnarled oak with a bark of many colors. But here, the road went directly through it, and it stood undisturbed in the center. Not a terribly strange place for a tree or a road, but definitely a strange place for the two together. When he arrived, not a few meters off from it, he saw the truly strange thing about the tree, that it wasn't a tree at all. It was something else.

• 36:40Speaker 00

  The thing moved, and it turned to face him. Eyes opened, and it took a step. "Turning back," Gilly said, and he did turn his horse, but found that he was looking at a wall of flesh, or whatever the giant was made out of. "Well met," the thing said. And somewhere up there, Gilly could see those same eyes and that same red nose. We are fellow travelers. For the present, Gilly could see the road before him, down toward the sea. The castle was open. Excuse me, he managed, and the terrified horse, with its equally terrified rider, bolted. We'll meet again, maybe. The ground seemed to shake with the words.

• 37:25Speaker 00

  There was no forgetting that, especially because he now chased the sun, who seemed to reiterate almost as fast as he did into the west. And with that, he knew he was alone. The old stories, they skipped these parts. The danger was the dragon fights, the wizard with the secret hidden foibles. It wasn't the darkness of the road, or what might lurk beyond any tree or accompany any sound. He had made a terrible mistake by coming, but he had arrived now, and he could see the castle glowing on a cliff off in the distance. The giant had been clear about that much. Gilly wasn't alone out here. He was being watched, and whatever that... that thing was, it wanted him to continue onward.

• 38:08Speaker 00

  So onward was the only path. Except now, the path was blocked. The road up to the cliff dipped into a small valley, and a sheer rock wall prohibited him from going farther. The rocks were impassable on one side and the sea was on another. Oh, there was no way to go on. To Gilly, it was a relief. The old stories had left out how terrible adventuring actually was, and he got all he needed out of it. He got a little fright, got to see a bit of the country, and now he could head home knowing it was the life he chose. Then, the cliff's eyes opened. Well met, a voice like an earthquake rumbled. Gilly's mare reared and threw him, bolting off back down the road behind him. The giant, the massive one, that filled the gaps of the pass and the rocks before him,

• 38:53Speaker 00

  rumbled out, saying that the pleasure of their meetings seemed to be all on his side, not Gilly's. With permission, I will go find my horse. Gilly was suddenly very respectful to the stranger. In the glint of the moonlight, he could see the eyes and nose of the acrobat in town, the hunchback, the tall man, the giant, and now this... this thing. With permission, you shall do nothing of the sort, the rock face growled. You've come a long way to see my castle, and within it, you shall rest the night. And many nights to come, the giant said. What do you mean? Gilly asked, though he already knew the answer. Where gold can be got for digging, the giant wheezed.

• 39:38Speaker 00

  There was no point in denying it. They both knew he gave Gilly enough chances to turn back. Gilly would dig now, for sure. He would have all the digging anyone could ever want for the rest of his life, and at the end of it, he would dig his own grave. Gilly spun on his heel to run, but the giant caught him around the waist and lifted him twenty feet into the air. Gilly fought a bit and kicked and quickly blunted his knife on the wizard's fingers, who gave him a warning squeeze. The digging and the work would be done, no matter the broken bones the man had. So he best manage his temper and panic now, or he would be managing his agony later. The castle was grand and dark and twisted, and the giant cleared its high walls and abound,

• 40:23Speaker 00

  and walked Gilly over to the main building before throwing him down hard on the stone path. As Gilly rose to his palms, he saw the giant shrink in his next step, going from three stories tall to merely seven feet. His cloak unfurled and his neatly trimmed beard sneered at Gilly, demanding that the man get up and seat him for dinner. Gilly did as he was told, rustling inside to the hall that was a combination of stone and darkened oak, with only a dark oak plank table, dark oak chair, and five presses or large freestanding cabinets. Also dark oak, so it really tracks that Gilly had to walk through the dark forest biome to get there.

• 41:06Speaker 00

  Gilly served dinner without a word, his terror morphing to desperation, but when it came time to pour the wizard's wine, he took a gamble. He pulled another chair from the table. Placed it behind the wizard, climbed it, and held the beaker well over the wizard's head, pouring it into a cup and holding it there. "What are you doing?" the wizard asked. "I'm, oh, I'm serving you your wine, sorry, it's, it's my master back at home. He likes me to serve his wine as near to his mouth as I can." "But you're ridiculously high." The wizard shook his head. "Not at all." Gilly laughed. "You're not the only giant in the kingdom after all." "I won't have any of your tricks, boy."

• 41:50Speaker 00

  The wizard sneered, and demanded Gilly come back down to the ground. "Oh, certainly, yes, that was not meant to be a trick, I'm so sorry. You will not be troubled by them for long." He poured the wizard his wine and commented that it was nice to be so close to the ground while doing this. He handed the wizard the cup. The wizard, though, put the cup down and thought, "Okay." The logic followed that either Gilly was planning to die, which none of his former servants did until at least year two, where there was something else. "It's just my master." Gilly laughed. The wizard couldn't understand though, right? He probably didn't like to lose servants either. It will be settled by Gilly's betters, though, when his master came for him.

• 42:32Speaker 00

  "He, do you think whoever it is you're talking about, whoever you serve, will come for you to my castle and take you from me?" Gilly didn't say that, that was basically spelling out all the subtext of what he had said, but nodded. Once again, not his deal. He was here to serve the wizard, well, whichever wizard was the strongest. "He won't find you here." The wizard laughed. "No one could find this place unless he willed it." "Not even with these?" Gilly held up his heel, revealing a bit of brass that was part of the boot, from when it was made. "He said his master had them all shod in these, people, cattle, everyone, so that wherever they go, they could be traced." "Even to the world's end," his boss said.

• 43:16Speaker 00

  The wizard laughed, but Gilly could see him thinking, likely mulling over the idea and how he would implement it with his magic. Then he grew serious. "What sort of person is your master?" the wizard said, trying to make it sound like idle conversation as much as possible. "Oh, I'm just a simple servant, my lord," Gilly smiled and shrugged. He wasn't as wise or as learned as the wizard, and his words, Gilly's words, would be insufficient. Besides, his wizard would probably meet the master soon. "Likely by tomorrow night at the latest." But he would meet the master how Gilly never saw him, in bad humor. "It doesn't matter," the wizard put down his fork and pushed away his plate. "There's no way he could match me.

• 44:00Speaker 00

  Tell me, is he as big as you saw me in the past out there?" The wizard grinned and took a victory sip. "Oh, I mean, that's not as big as you can get, though, right, is it?" Gilly asked. The wizard said it, "It was quite big." Gilly thought about it. "Okay, well, his master, his old master," he corrected. "His, his son was that big." "Oh, like his teenage son, he grew up to be taller than him." The wizard sat back and took a big drink of wine. "Sorry, new, well, temporary master," Gilly said. He didn't let me finish. "His son was that big, when his son was born."

• 44:39Speaker 00

  Gilly knew the spit take was coming, but it was still pretty satisfying to see the wizard spew his wine out all over his nice table, rising and replacing his stained shirt with another one with a wave of his hand. The wizard paced before the fire for a few minutes before telling Gilly that, you know what? He had a change of heart. Gilly could take some wine and provisions and, and leave. Gilly bowed, but temporary master was his master, temporarily at least. He couldn't simply leave. "You're already employed, I'm feeling magnanimous. Don't indulge in my generosity because there isn't enough of it to save you," the wizard said. "Yeah, pretty generous, making me leave in the middle of the night to catch my horse in the dark forest.

• 45:23Speaker 00

  You know what, can I please just stay here? He'll be here anyway, even if you let me go." Gilly took a seat to rest his feet. What? Yeah, Gilly said, as the wizard likely knew, being a giant wasn't just about crushing lesser beings with your bare hands. It was more about reputation. Well, it was fifty fifty crushing in reputation. Well, maybe seventy forty crushing reputation for his master because his master was big enough to crush almost anything, especially people who corrected his maths. Gilly reached over and grabbed the wizard's plate and started picking from it. In sports, you know, you call a foul even when it was obviously an accident.

• 46:04Speaker 00

  Because if you don't, you're no longer in the foul calling business, you're in the intention discerning business. And that is way trickier. So even if you didn't intend to take my master's property, me, you still have to pay the penalty. And since I've already been at the castle of another wizard for a few hours now. Like I said, he'll be here tomorrow at the latest. So can I just stay? The wizard took a beat, then met Gilly's eyes. I'll pay you, he said. Look, I can't convince him. If I could, I literally would not be enslaved. Gilly said, this chicken was amazing, by the way, what was that time? Gilly bobbed his head, though, well, okay.

• 46:44Speaker 00

  His master was a giant filled with righteous anger, but he was also a busy giant. If the wizard made justice more trouble than it was worth. Help me hide. There was a crack of panic in the wizard's voice. Gilly had to know his master and his limits. Gilly said he could, but he wouldn't lie to his master. I can rebuild this whole castle in an instant. If I escape with my life, that's enough. Tell me how to hide, the wizard pleaded, and then snapped his fingers. There was a corner by the door with a low overhanging wall. The wizard shrunk to five feet tall and squeezed in. Uh? Uh? Really? That's, that's your plan? You're just standing behind a door. I can see you and he's far more sharp eyed than me.

• 47:29Speaker 00

  Under the table, the wizard shouted and, in an instant, was under the table and two and a half feet tall. That's better, Gilly conceded. Still, not great. Almost on cue, a gust of wind rocked the door. Well, that's bad news for you, I guess. He's on his way sooner, it seems, Gilly said. Why? What, what makes you say that? The wizard cried from under the table. That was a sneeze. He's still a few miles off. He might have a couple of minutes. Minutes? The wizard scrambled. Okay, okay, okay, okay. He ran over and created a footstool out of thin air, and then, with a word that didn't sound like a word, made himself six inches tall and ran under the footstool.

• 48:10Speaker 00

  Okay, no offense, but I do have notes, Gilly said. First, a sole footstool? There's no chair. There's no even seating in this area. It makes for more questions than it answers. And second, my master loves kicking stuff. That stool is gonna be gone. Once he kicked a cow to Spain, and that wasn't even out of anger, it was on a dare. I will not go smaller than this, the wizard objected, and Gilly said, fine. It wasn't his problem. The wizard could just take the consequences. The wind outside was so bad, it rushed down the chimney and, for a moment, the fire flickered. Whew. That sounds like it was from his footstep. He's masking them since he knows you're a wizard, but he can't hold back the wind.

• 48:53Speaker 00

  A very high-pitched utterance said a very, very, very strange word, and the wizard vanished. What was that? Gilly stood up and walked over. I'm under the hearthstone. A tiny voice laughed. I'm the size of a beetle. You sure about that? Gilly said. Because I, I still see you over there under the stool, Gilly pointed. No, you don't. I'm under the hearthstone, the wizard was growing more annoyed. Hey, you can lie to me all you want, but just be sure you're not lying to yourself, because that's how people get crushed by giants, Gilly said. Then, from down by his boot, he heard a, hey, hey, down here. See how small I am? Satisfied now? You know what?

• 49:38Speaker 00

  I am perfectly satisfied, Gilly said and with a crunch stepped on the beetle. Well, that's over. Gilly scraped the remains of the wizard off on the edge of the hearthstone. Nearly immediately after the crunch, though, there were sounds, sounds from elsewhere in the room. And when his shoe was clean, he looked over and saw all five of the presses, the large cabinets rocking. And then, out of each one of them, something exploded. Something or someone, a beautiful woman in each, threw open the doors and looked around the room. Five maidens in sea-green colored attire looked for the wizard, saw the black spot

• 50:23Speaker 00

  Gilly was scraping off his boot, and cried out in some form or another, "My hero." They all showed their appreciation by, quote, clasping around his neck and arms, kissing, tickling, and nearly throttling him, all while giggling. Gilly, though, broke free and said, quote, "Have done! Be off! Away with you, saucy wenches!" He was serious, too, and picked up a stool, threatening the first beautiful young woman to kiss him and hug him a smack across the head. They, uh, had some opinions. They called him a coward and demanded he come to them and be a man. He said they could all take a seat while they worked this out.

• 51:05Speaker 00

  They were apparently the five daughters of King Lachlin, and they had refused to marry the wizard. Because of that, they had been imprisoned for three years, and they vowed to marry whoever freed them. "So, you need to marry us," they finished. "All of you, yes, all of us," the women smiled and said in unison, and then some winked and some blew kisses, according to the text. Gilly blinked. Okay, he had some thoughts, but he knew that he couldn't marry five women. Probably. Regardless, he didn't want to. Gilly thought he could maybe negotiate with one of them instead of all five, so he put forward an idea. After three hours of every single one of them

• 51:46Speaker 00

  cheating and lying and sabotaging every other one of them to get his hand in various sports, board games, and even just rolling dice, Gilly said that he was so tired. He had one idea. The next morning, he would pick the color of his future wife's wedding dress. The one to pick it would be her. Deal? They all agreed, mainly because he was still holding the stool, and Gilly said he was going to bed. "Oh, I brought you wine," the youngest of the women said, and Gilly said, "Fine, whatever." He drank it before going to find a room.

• 52:32Speaker 00

  It was a nice enough creepy castle, but he couldn't shake the feeling, as he drifted off to sleep, that he was being watched. Because he was being watched. The youngest daughter, who drugged him with a potion that made him talk in his sleep, had picked the lock and crept in. Unbeknownst to her, every subsequent sister had the same idea: to watch him in his sleep for any clues. And so, when he uttered "yellow" a few times, and then, the next morning, they all cried out "yellow" at the same time over breakfast, everyone was right back where they were the previous night. They insisted that he must marry them all. Gilly wanted to find a way out of any marriage, but especially this one. None of this was normal or okay. It wasn't his

• 53:16Speaker 00

  fault they vowed to marry him. He was just trying to save his own life. "Okay, final question, and I'll marry anyone who gets it," Gilly said. The women grew excited. "Well, listen," he said, "whoever can tell me what favorite was the codfish of Arminish as to the widow woman of Giga, that one I shall marry." "What?" the second oldest woman asked. "What does that even mean?"

• 53:43Speaker 00

  It means it probably won't be you. Gilly laughed. If it helped, there was a pretty big library up on the second floor. Wink. Oh, he covered his mouth. No more hints from him. They could meet him here in five hours. Or sooner, if someone figured it out. When the women broke and ran for the library, Gilly waited about a half second and then rushed down to the garden where, looking around, he saw a plot that had less grass growing on it. Finding a shovel, he dug for a few minutes until he'd chipped the chest underneath. Breaking the lock, he found the gold the peddler had seen, likely on purpose so he would spread the story. And Gilly scooped the gold into bags, hefted them over his shoulders and took off on a brisk jog,

• 54:26Speaker 00

  being sure to remain out of view of the library windows.

• 54:41Speaker 00

  His horse had lingered there for the night, so he caught her fairly quickly and rode as fast as he could for Tarbert, reaching it by sundown. He had money now to pay for the private ferryman, and he doubled that rate to reach the other side before midnight and kept riding east. Before dawn, he was back at his tavern and farm, where he snuck in when his servants were sleeping and hid the gold away in a room. After only a few hours of sleep and prodded by excitement, he awoke and rode into town and worked for hours, making all the improvements he had wanted to make over the years, but never had the money to do. It was about mid-afternoon when the workers he had out cultivating his fields all went to the fences.

• 55:22Speaker 00

  Gilly's blood ran cold when he heard the giggling, the laughing. Far off, he saw flashes of sea green. He ran to the barn and returned with the tail hair of one of the older horses. Lachlan, Gilly said, you have been a stellar servant and really took care of this place in my absence. You could run your own tavern. Why don't you leave and go do so? I don't run a tavern. I serve you, Lachlan said. Sometimes that involved running a tavern. Okay, Gilly said. That's a level of devotion that he didn't really want to take advantage of, but he had something he needed from Lachlan right now. Lachlan threw down his mop and stood tall. Anything, sir. Then he actually bent down and picked up the mop and used it a bit to clean up the mess from throwing it down.

• 56:15Speaker 00

  Minutes later, there was a tapping at the door. Lachlan answered, and immediately, the five young women were in the house. "Is the good man at home?" they demanded. "No, but the good wife is," Lachlan brushed back the tail of the mare Gilly had put on his head, and he did so with no small degree of flourish. "And what, may I ask, is your business?" It was a lot to process. I think the kids call it crashing out, and that's exactly what happened. Look, I don't mean to judge. I haven't been locked in an armoire for three years, but it feels like if you, quote, "stand transfixed with rage and wonder, and then shriek and flee into the countryside all helter-skelter

• 56:58Speaker 00

  because the person you just met doesn't want to marry you, or you and all your sisters," that's a you problem, and you should probably work through it. Gilly, though, felt no guilt there, and lived ever afterwards in wealth and comfort. And the story says if he remained unmarried, it was not for lack of offers.

• 57:32Speaker 00

  This was one of those stories for me where you think the main one isn't going to be long enough, so you add in a couple more, and then the main one turns out to be more than enough, but you love the others so much you can't cut any, and then you just have a super-long episode. Thanks for sticking through until the end. It is interesting how the "when a princess's hand" trope was subverted by Gilly, who simply did not want to marry at all, going to great lengths to not marry not only one, but five, when seemingly every other male fairy tale protagonist will do anything to marry the princess. Also interesting how the wizard wanted to enslave someone and work them to death, but only someone who was going to try to rob him first. Maybe that's how he justified it. Weird ethical code, but whatever.

• 58:15Speaker 00

  Apparently it was also one that allowed him to kidnap and imprison princesses, so don't think too highly of him. Also, to me, it is interesting that the sisters were totally cool with Gilly marrying all five of them at the same time, but the fact that he might already be married was apparently a deal breaker? And I really don't think we're supposed to read anything more into the relationship between Gilly and his servant, other than a very dedicated employee who wants to help out his boss by posing as his wife, with Gilly apparently knowing that that was the line the five women would not cross. Who knows, though? I posted a public domain source if you're interested in reading more. Next week, we're back in Japanese folklore with three different perspectives on the abandoned

• 58:58Speaker 00

  temple in the forest and what could be lurking inside.

• 59:08Speaker 00

  The creatures this time are the Eiwanoma from Guyana. If you've ever looked at the human body and thought, "It's weird that both the air and food hole are the same hole and they need to pass through tubes that run next to each other and are only about an inch to an inch and a half wide and separated only by a flap of cartilage," then you might think the Eiwanoma makes a lot of sense. They are headless men who have eyes on each shoulder, a nose a bit lower, and a mouth at the center of their chest, quote, "like a horseshoe." This is not an uncommon idea in world folklore, more on that later, but Sir Walter Raleigh, of planting lost colonies, popularizing smoking tobacco, and trying to start wars with Spain fame, was pretty taken with the idea of these strong guys.

• 59:52Speaker 00

  Apparently, when traveling South America, everyone was talking about the tribe of headless men who could handle clubs and axes three times larger than anyone else in the land. The people of Guyana apparently captured one and would have been happy to show Raleigh if he ever asked, for reasons unknown to literally everyone, he apparently never asked. Yeah, Raleigh didn't ever actually see an Eiwanoma, but, no joke, and this is almost a direct quote, "All the kids in the area told him these people were definitely real and existed. He said if so many people believed in them, then he couldn't see a way where they wouldn't exist." I don't know the mind of Sir Walter Raleigh, but I was a kid once and I have a kid, and

• 1:00:33Speaker 00

  sorry, Walt, those kids were absolutely messing with you. At least you didn't publish a thing for all time asserting that they existed. Okay, well, you know, you did. That's fine. At least the UI Panama aren't frolicking naked on the cover. Uh, okay, that's actually the cover. Um, well, okay, you know, I don't know. It might be good to just be a little bit more skeptical.

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  That's it for this time. Myths and Legends is by Jason and Carissa Weiser. Our theme song is by Broke for Free, and the Creature of the Week music is by Steve Colmes. There's a list of even more of the music we used in the show notes. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next time.

• 1:01:20Speaker 04

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:01:47Speaker 05

  This is Stugatz from Stugatz and Company Live. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla sedan with the latest features N-Tech, or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops, while Toyota's legendary resale value means you can get more at TradeIn. Get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.