Unbundling Disney, Why CNN is Just Like the WWE, YouTube Creator Camps, and More

Sam Parr (@theSamParr) and Shaan Puri (@ShaanVP) discuss Shaan's recent trip to Disneyland and talk about a number of business ideas that involve unbundling Disney. They also talk about PFP NFT projects, why CNN is just like the WWE, YouTube creator camps, and much more. At the end of the episode, they pick six $1,000 winners from the recent review contest, so if you submitted a review, stick around to see if you won. _____ * Do you love MFM and want to see Sam and Shaan's smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. * Want more insights like MFM? Check out Shaan's newsletter. _____ Show Notes: (00:48) - PFP NFT Projects (12:40) - Business ideas from unbundling Disneyland (50:30) - YouTubers making creator camps (53:35) - Sh*tty billy of the week: Mike Goguen (46:50) - BS studies and why CNN is like the WWE

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Shaan Puri?

  The only thing I think people love more than their kid or love as nearly as much as their kid is their dog. And so I'm surprised that there's not a place like Disneyland for dogs. That is basically the happiest place on earth for dogs.

• 0:25Sam Parr?

  Dude, Nick's thing is kind of weird. Let's see if it works.

• 0:28Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. What's your prediction? Let's do it. Let's predict it now. Do you think this goes anywhere? You think it becomes worth something or no?

• 0:35Sam Parr?

  So the background here is our friend is this guy named Nick Huber, who goes viral all the time for writing about like, storage units.

• 0:42Shaan Puri?

  Self, he's the self-storage guy on Twitter. His handle is Sweaty Startup.

• 0:46Sam Parr?

  I'm an investor in his, so I'll disclose that. I don't know what that means here, but we'll say it. He created, he made this thread like as a joke, or he made a joke about tomatoes. I don't even remember the joke, how he could grow tomatoes and sell them or something. And people like made fun of them and it went crazy viral. And then he created a tomato NFT project called Bro-Matoes. As a joke, but kind of not a joke. Do I think it's gonna go anywhere?

• 1:15Shaan Puri?

  Kind of like well-executed where you're like, this isn't a joke. The art is amazing. The art is great.

• 1:20Sam Parr?

  It's great in the sense that it's like well-executed bad art. Like it's a tomato that's a bro, that's a guy. So do I think it's gonna go anywhere? Of course not. No, I don't think so. Do you?

• 1:33Shaan Puri?

  There's a chance. Like, I don't know if you saw that he, he posted a tweet from this account that's called, I think Cosmo Davici or something like that. Did you see that tweet that he posted where somebody had, he's like, oh, this just got interesting. And that, that is one of the most popular NFT curator accounts. They own like tons of punks and bored apes and whatever. And it's supposed to be Snoop Dogg. Snoop Dogg is the one who, I don't think it's him who writes the tweets because it's like a totally different writing style, but he says it's Snoop Dogg. Snoop Dogg says it's him and they funded it obviously with like millions of dollars worth of NFT purchases. And so I thought that was kind of interesting that he's got some.

• 2:16Shaan Puri?

  Some, you know, some heavy hitters in this, uh, this NFT world and collector space together.

• 2:21Sam Parr?

  How did he do it? So like, he told me that I think there's like either one or two or three, like there's like 4,000. I don't remember some like single digit low.

• 2:29Shaan Puri?

  Usually it's 10,000 or 8,000, but uh, doesn't matter, but let's just say 10,000, cause that's what most of the projects are.

• 2:35Sam Parr?

  How do you literally make an image? Because like his images are all different. Is it like some code where you're like, where you have like 18 different features and it's, and it swaps them?

• 2:44Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. So you have all these traits like hair, eyes, nose, mouth, body, shirt, pants, whatever. And then each one might have 10 variations, 12 variations, 25 variations. So there might be 25 hairstyles. And then you go through and you said, you, so you have an artist make 25 hairstyles and it's just the hair part. And then they say, you say the rarity, you say, okay, this is the most rare hairstyle, the golden mohawk. I only want that to appear 1% of the time. So you put that in all into a program and it spits out a collection of 10,000 variations, 10,000 combinations of these things. And with the rarity, uh, so that some of them have the super rare attributes and then some of them have very common attributes. So that's how all these work.

• 3:26Sam Parr?

  What program do you use for this?

• 3:29Shaan Puri?

  I don't know what people use. I think it's maybe just one smart contract or maybe there's a special app for this. I'm not sure what, what people use.

• 3:34Sam Parr?

  Damn, I mean, that's crazy. That's, that's crazy to me.

• 3:37Shaan Puri?

  But it's gotten so easy that like, you know, Nick can take his tomato meme and, and get it done. Now he hired a good artist because the art he has is like, actually like really good. It's 3D art's really, really nice, but you know, you see a different, um, 10,000 art collection drop, you know, every four hours or something in the.

• 3:56Sam Parr?

  Got it. Okay.

• 3:57Shaan Puri?

  So like I bought one yesterday. So if you go to open C, uh, dot I, I saw this, it's really, it's funny. Like these are such a, it's such degenerate gambling. But I saw this thing go, if you see it on Twitter early, you should basically go mint the thing or buy the thing. So I saw this thing called chain runners. It took off, uh, right away. I saw people, I saw interesting people on Twitter talking about it. I think. The first guy who really, I, I think I, the guy who kind of think kicked, kicked it off in the tech industry was the founder of Figma, who this guy Zoink.

• 4:31Shaan Puri?

  And so the founder of Figma, which is like a multi-billion dollar design company, he is a big NFT collector. He owned one of the most rare CryptoPunks. So he changed his profile picture to this or like, you know, posted about it. And immediately like I start, I started seeing every VC doing it. So I bought in and, you know, I made double my money in a day and, you know, you can get in and out of these things very quickly. There's another, I'll tell you about another one of these. This is kind of in the weeds. So I almost regret doing this early on in the show, but let's do it. There's this thing called Wolf Game. So go to wolf.game. And I think this is kind of a sign of something that's to come. It's a little confusing when you, when you first go to it. I only understand, let's say,

• 5:14Shaan Puri?

  30% of it right now. But the part I understood made me think, oh shit, this is something new. So what is this? So crypto is now going into gaming. And what does that mean? It means like, in the old way of gaming, you would put like, let's say a game like World of Warcraft. People who played World of Warcraft would spend thousands of hours grinding that game, playing that game, leveling up their characters, earning new stuff. And they would get zero economic value for it. So you would, you would put, you know, thousands of hours in and you would get $0 in return. But hey, you got the shiny helmet and your character now says level 60. Congratulations. And it was, that was still good enough. People did that. People all around the world do that. Then games like Fortnite come out. Fortnite says, hey, you can play this game.

• 5:58Shaan Puri?

  It's about shooting each other, but you can have your character have all these special, special costumes. They do nothing for you in the game. They're all, it doesn't make your character any better. But if you buy our in-game currency called V-Bucks, you can buy these special like capes and swords and helmets for your character. All right, great. People spent billions of dollars on V-Bucks and, and bought tons of stuff in the game. And if they decide, like many people, many people who were 12 years old playing Fortnite and dropped, you know, $180 in the game, buying stuff. Now if they're tired of Fortnite, they want to go play a new game. That that money is lost. You cannot take your items to another game. So why is crypto gaming going to be big? It's going to be big because when you buy an item in a game, you're going to

• 6:41Shaan Puri?

  own that item and then other games will allow you to bring that item in. So it'll make it'll make it way more valuable to buy things in games because you're going to be able to use them. You're going to be able to resell them later. If you get tired of the game and somebody that you want to sell it, that doesn't exist today in most games. And secondly, you'll be able to take it with you to other games. All right. So now let me tell you what this wolf game thing is. What wolf game is, is it's almost like a gambling system. So you imagine if you go to the website, it's like little pixelated art, like 8 bit.

• 7:09Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it it looks neat. Like it looks like kind of punk rock, a little like I all this this whole, this whole genre of people online, it totally is like the freakers. What was it called? You know what I'm talking about? Like the um, like the steampunk type of vibe.

• 7:26Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, yeah, that's definitely like this big overlap of like steampunk and crypto. So here's how the game works in a very, again, I don't even understand the full game, but here's how it worked on it when I went to it. You could buy a sheep. So let's say you buy a sheep. If you if you stake the sheep in the in the barn, you may mean you put your sheep in the barn, every day you're going to get every sheep produces 10,000 wool. And and so your sheep is kind of like working for you. It's like farming wool for you. Okay, and wool wool has some value. Wool wool is like it's the in game currency. It's like V bucks. So so you buy a sheep, the sheep produces wool for you. Okay, that's interesting. You could also buy a wolf. If you buy a wolf or you own a wolf,

• 8:09Shaan Puri?

  here's how a wolf works. And this is the story of the game. The story of the game is if you put your sheep in the farm, they're safe because the farmers have made a truce with the wolves to say, do not attack the sheep in the in the farm. And in exchange for the safety, it's like a mafia. In exchange for the safety, you get 20% of the wool as a wolf, as a bribe, as a payoff.

• 8:32Sam Parr?

  This is so crazy.

• 8:34Shaan Puri?

  If somebody ever takes their sheep out of the farm, they can keep 100% of the wool for themselves. But there's a random chance that the wolf will come eat your sheep and take all of the wool and maybe take your sheep or something like that. And so the wolf would then get 100%. There's a small chance that you might lose your fricking sheep. And so you could play it safe and pay the tax, or you can risk it for a bigger reward and you can lose your sheep. And so the whole game is basically about owning these sheep, owning these wolves and the like random chance, the random probabilities of certain things happening. And the whole time you're accumulating wool, which has some, has some value in the game, right? It's the, it's the in-game currency. And I thought this is very interesting.

• 9:13Shaan Puri?

  It's kind of a stupid, silly game, but it's interesting because it's a game that didn't just like add crypto at the end. It kind of started with this, like, the game is designed around buy this character, the character earns you money. Buy this other character, that character steals money or collects a tax. And it's basically a game that's made to make you money. And I don't know if you know what's going on with Axie Infinity, but this is like a

• 9:41Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I mean, the, the, the infinity thing is like the biggest moneymaker in the world right now, it seems.

• 9:46Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, they've made like, I don't know, over $2 billion. The game has made over $2 billion in like a year. And it's this new model called play to earn and play to earn basically just means normally when you play the game, you played just for shit, you know, shits and giggles. But now if you play and you do well in the game, you actually are earning the in-game currency, which is like, could be cashed out at any time. And so there are people, we have a friend that has a team of people in the Philippines, just playing the game full time. He pays them a salary and they play the game for him and they, it's like a investment property. They make back 25% yield on top of his salaries that he pays them. He pays them to play this game all day.

• 10:23Sam Parr?

  Do I think I can I

• 10:27Shaan Puri?

  I don't want to say it because you know, people obviously see this. So it's like kind of fucked up. I think a lot of people will have a bad reaction to that. So I don't want to say their name because I didn't ask them in advance.

• 10:39Sam Parr?

  All right. That's amazing. Do you want to? Um, all right. Well, so like right now I'm looking at a sheet and you've got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 things here. Honestly, they all seem pretty good. Do you just want to like start banging through some stuff?

• 10:55Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, let's do it. Your boy went to Disneyland last week, had a ton of time. We I had to skip one episode of the pod, but that made me get exposed to a bunch of new ideas. And then I got sick, so I haven't been able to work. I've just been sitting there, you know, doped up on Benadryl. So I got all kinds of crazy ideas that I want to bounce off you. The first one is about Disneyland. Okay, so.

• 11:15Sam Parr?

  I got this text from Sean saying I'm at Disneyland or no, maybe it was a tweet. It was a tweet. I saw a tweet you I'm at Disneyland and all I want to do is land on Dilf of Disneyland's dad. I want to dad. I want to F of Disneyland.

• 11:28Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Have you ever seen this Instagram account? Dilfs of Disneyland?

• 11:30Sam Parr?

  No, but I understand it.

• 11:33Shaan Puri?

  It's basically just like hot dads that they take pictures of that are like happen to be at Disneyland that day. And they're always like doing something that's hot to the mom like, oh, he's, you know, wiping the daughter's mouth because, you know, he didn't just leave it dirty. He's picking. He's changing a diaper or whatever. It's like, that's what's hot.

• 11:51Sam Parr?

  That's awesome.

• 11:52Shaan Puri?

  So that was my goal. I did not make it on a Dilfs of Disneyland. Pretty upset about it. But you know, I will recover. Okay. So Disneyland is kind of amazing. And when I was there, I was pretty blown away and my wife was blown away. So my wife doesn't really care about business. She's interested in it, but she's not like a nut about it like you or me. Even she like basically grabbed my arm halfway through the thing was like, this is amazing. She was like, I'm kind of blown away by this guy's entrepreneurship to create this place because Disneyland is kind of a one of a kind type of idea. And it's meant to be, you know, the happiest place on earth. And it really is for a lot of people. When you're there, you can really see

• 12:35Shaan Puri?

  how happy people are. And in doing research for this, I went and watched this documentary about the starting of Disneyland. And in the comments or at the end of the video, he goes, That's what that's backstory of Disneyland, but it means something different to everybody. In the comments, say what it means to you and the YouTube comments are like eulogies. It's like essays about what Disneyland means to these people. It has like a huge emotional register. All right, so let me break you, make you make out some of the numbers. So let's start with the numbers and then the backstory, some of the numbers. So Disneyland does about 3.8 billion dollars a year of revenue. Every day about 50,000 people come to the park. So, you know, just roughly speaking, they make about just over $200 per guest, um, per guest per year.

• 13:17Shaan Puri?

  And that's, that's not counting the hotels, the flights and the, and a bunch of the auxiliary stuff. So a ticket into the park is like 120 bucks. And then you spend like another hundred bucks on food and merch while you're there.

• 13:28Sam Parr?

  Man, I feel like it was a hundred dollars when I was a kid.

• 13:31Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, actually it started up. So I went back and I was like, what was the initial price of this? Cause Disneyland prices have been inflating actually like crazy. There's a chart showing inflation of Disneyland and it's like just up and to the right. Disneyland started at $3.25 to get in back when it, when it launched in 1955. So, you know, the, the minimum wage back then was 75 cents. And I think the average person's income was like four grand or something like that. So, you know, everything has gone up. But now, you know, they, they basically have a off peak, peak time. So if you go to peak time, it's going to be 200 something bucks. Normal is like 150 bucks and low is like a hundred dollars, something like that. So, um, so what, what happened? So Walt Disney, basically his story is kind of amazing.

• 14:16Shaan Puri?

  So he, he grows up and he, he's actually from your, your hometown. I don't know if you know this, you probably do, but he's from Missouri.

• 14:24Sam Parr?

  I didn't know that.

• 14:25Shaan Puri?

  Apparently there's a place in Missouri called Electric Park. Have you ever heard of this?

• 14:30Sam Parr?

  No.

• 14:31Shaan Puri?

  Cause this is the inspiration for Disneyland. When he's eight years old, he goes to this place called Electric Park. And Electric Park was kind of known for two things. One, it was, it was an amusement park. And the second is it was really clean. And that's like one of the biggest things about Disneyland is Disneyland is really clean. So imagine having 50,000 guests over to your house, but somehow everything stays really, really clean. And that was like, he's fanatical about this. When he designed the park.

• 14:55Sam Parr?

  Electric Park in, in Kansas City. Yeah, I see it.

• 15:00Shaan Puri?

  When he, um, when he designed the park, he made it so that I think every 30 feet, there's a trash can because he watched guests at amusement parks and he would see that if you, if the trash can was further than 30 feet away or whatever, they would just be like, ah, fuck it. They would just leave it on the ground or throw it on the ground or whatever, just dispose of it in a bad way. But if there was a can within 30 feet, they would like, make the effort to go toss it. And so he made it so that at any point, and I tested this out when I was there, I was, I would often like check, okay, am I 30 feet within the trash can? And sure enough, like, it's actually like legit. There's always a trash can near you and this place is super clean. So he goes to Electric Park and he wants to be a cartoonist. He, uh, ends up working at an ad agency and then he creates his first business. It's called

• 15:41Shaan Puri?

  Laffo grams. And he's basically doing these like, kind of like animated, uh, cards. But you know, a bad business deal leads, it starts working, but then he cuts a bad business deal where, uh, he's owed a bunch of money by one client and then they don't pay him and, uh, the business goes under. And so he says, okay, let's go to Hollywood and, um, and, and he tells his brother, let's go to Hollywood and let's create another business. And so they go and they create Disney Brothers Cartoon Studio. And this is where they create Mickey Mouse. This is where they create Snow White. That's the first big hit. So the company goes from like in debt or making no money to making millions of dollars off of Snow White. That was like the big win. And so he's like, okay, um, this is kind of working and, um, the business

• 16:23Shaan Puri?

  is doing all right. It's not going gangbusters. Um, but it's afloat and he's working on his next story. He's working on Pinocchio. He's working on a couple of other stories. And he's always had this crazy idea about amusement parks ever since Electric Park. And he takes his daughter to the local merry-go-round and he's like, ah, this is like so boring. Like, why isn't there something more grand than just this merry-go-round? Like, my daughter loves this, but like, this is so boring for the parents. And this is just one ride. Like, what if I made a place that was, um, You know, what if I made a place that was fun for both the parents and the kids to go to, uh, which is like a similar theme with all Pixar movies and Disney, Disney movies, which is like, the movie is enjoyable. Toy Story is enjoyable to an adult and a kid. It has like two layers to it.

• 17:08Shaan Puri?

  Both can enjoy a different piece of it. And so he's like, and so what, how did they actually come about this? How did they actually like figure out the idea? So they started by doing research. They went to every theme park they could find. They went to the world's fair. They went to a whole bunch of places getting inspiration and ideas and mesh and thinking about what is bad about this experience? What can be made better? So things being dirty, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, okay. He starts thinking about the design of the place. An electric park had this, um, train that went around the whole park. And so if you go to Disneyland, that's still the thing. There's right when you enter, there's a train and the train will take you around the whole circumference of the park. And he's like, all right, I'm going to build, and he used to tell people, one of these days I'm going to build an amusement park and it is going to be clean. And he takes two guys off

• 17:51Shaan Puri?

  of Pinocchio and he says, hey, listen, um, I want you guys to start, uh, start working on like secret project X. And, um, he's like, you know, it's a shame that when people come to Hollywood, there's nothing to see here. Like people all around the world have heard of Hollywood. They come here. There's the sign where it says Hollywood in the, in the letters on the hill, but there's nowhere to see Hollywood. Hollywood is

• 18:15Sam Parr?

  I'm, I'm so out of it. Is Disneyland in LA?

• 18:19Shaan Puri?

  It's in LA. Yeah.

• 18:20Sam Parr?

  Anaheim. Okay. I, for some reason I thought it was in Florida.

• 18:24Shaan Puri?

  That's Disney world.

• 18:25Sam Parr?

  Got it.

• 18:26Shaan Puri?

  You're like not in Disney, you know, in the Disney world at all. Okay. Um, so he

• 18:30Sam Parr?

  I mean, I know a little bit, but I, come on Disney world, the Disneyland. That's an easy confuse.

• 18:35Shaan Puri?

  No, no, no, that's, that's fair. That's fair. Um, so he, Disneyland came first. So he basically is like, uh, guys, if, if anybody came to even see our animation studio, they just see a bunch of dudes hunched over drawings. It's not very, not very impressive. Let's build something amazing in Hollywood. And the guys get super excited. They start doing research, but then reality hits. They have to, they're working on Pinocchio. They had to ship it. They're working on Fantasia. They got to ship it. Then World War II happens. So all of, all of World War II happens. And then he comes back because he hires this guy. Kimball to work in his studio and Kimball's like this junior kind of animator guy. And Kimball invites all the coworkers over to his house for like a barbecue or a birthday party or something like that. And in the back, in the backyard of his house, he's like, oh, by

• 19:19Shaan Puri?

  the way, you guys don't know this, but my hobby is I build these little trains, almost like the steamboat style train, but like, it's like a life sized thing. It was very small. It's like, you know, one, one, uh, like whatever, one link of a train, basically.

• 19:31Sam Parr?

  Have you, have you, this guy's name is Ward Kimball. If you Google him, he looks like a cartoon.

• 19:37Shaan Puri?

  And you can see his, his train too. So Walt goes to this thing. He's blown away. The, he's seeing the train it up close. And he's like, dude, Ward built this thing. Okay. We're the whole Mickey, he says, when he comes back to the office, he sends a memo. He says, Mickey Mouse Park is back on. And he tells the shareholders, shareholders say, don't do it. Movie studio is already on, on edge. This sounds like a big distraction. It's against the charter of the company. Uh, we don't want you doing this. He says, okay. Um, no problem. I understand. I'll create a new company. So he just creates another company to create the park. He's like, I'm still going to do this, but if you don't want in, I will, I'll do this myself. And, um, and he calls

• 20:19Shaan Puri?

  it like, uh, Red Law or whatever, something like that, which is like, you know, uh, Walter backwards, uh, is kind of the way he names it. He starts working on it. And so he's like, all right. How do I fund this thing? He thinks it's going to take $5 million to build Disneyland. And in actuality, it ends up taking $17 million to do it. And so he's like, all right, how do I fund this? He, uh, he takes his, uh, his life insurance policy and he takes a big loan against that. That gives him like, you know, a hundred grand or so to, to go do this. Then he sells a house that he had in Palm Springs. So that's like the next seed money. Uh, like he goes through that pretty quickly. Then he goes, all right, I need some bigger money. How do I get millions of dollars for this? Okay. He goes to ABC, the TV network and he says, hey, ABC.

• 21:04Shaan Puri?

  You're struggling right now. You don't have much TV programming. I will create this program called like whatever, like the wonderful world of Disney or something like that. I'll create a TV show for you that'll air every Sunday if you invest in my park idea. So Disney basically puts down half a million dollars plus another about six and a half of loans and bonds and they own 34% of Disneyland. And so that's how he got the next seven million bucks. And then he did the same thing with two other companies and then he sold some sponsorships. He like accumulates together the $17 million.

• 21:35Sam Parr?

  Hustled his way.

• 21:37Shaan Puri?

  He hustled his way to doing it. The other thing that he did was he was like, all right, you know, this, this thing works because he's like, I gotta, I gotta have like the, the rides work automatically. And so he created this thing where if you go to Disneyland now, you sit in a ride and you go and it's sort of like a, it's like a stage play that plays out, but it's all synchronized. When your little like roller coaster cart enters this room, the lights go on, the character makes a sound. And then when you leave the room, it all folds back into its thing. And that's called animatronics. And so basically audio animatronics was like the thing he wanted to do, which was like, he wanted live animals, but it's too much work. So instead of live animals, he created these robotic animals. And he said, I'm going to synchronize the movements to music

• 22:21Shaan Puri?

  on a loop. And there's this one guy who was just working on only this. And he was kind of in front of a green screen, trying to make this like puppet do this thing synchronized to music. And eventually they finally figured it out. And that was like the big breakthrough. So, okay, let me fast forward a little bit. They opened the park, they build the whole thing in less than one year. They opened the park and he only invited like 1500 people to it or something like that, like invite only launch, but somebody counterfeited the tickets. And so double the number of people showed up with counterfeit tickets on day one. Because double the number of people showed up, everything breaks. The plumbing breaks because there's too many people using water in the park more than the load was able to handle. So they come to him, they're Walt, we got a problem. The

• 23:03Shaan Puri?

  plumbing is broken. You have to make a choice. Toilets or water fountains? He's like toilets for sure. And so he, there's no water, there's no drinking water that day. The asphalt was still so freshly poured that like women's high heels was getting stuck in the cement. Cause it was like caving in. It was basically a giant disaster. And he does some PR. He basically says, look,

• 23:24Shaan Puri?

  We had, you know, we had to work out the kinks. Give me a month and basically they give me, give me some time and this thing will be smooth. And sure enough, within a month, the, the baby is humming, you know, humming. And in seven weeks, he does a million visitors. So it was kind of an immediate hit. Once he did it, because it was such a great idea.

• 23:39Sam Parr?

  Was Disney right off the bat? Or at this era, at this point, how famous were they? They were, I mean, they were a big deal. They weren't like a

• 23:46Shaan Puri?

  Semi famous. They hadn't had like, I mean, nowhere near what they are now, but like they were semi famous. Really the ABC show, which he was doing while he was building the park, was almost like the hype video for the, for the park launch.

• 24:00Sam Parr?

  Was he just grinding the whole time?

• 24:01Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, crazy amount of work. And so he, he creates this thing and, you know, it's basically the sixth or seventh most visited tourist destination in the world now. And, um, you know, it's kind of kind of this crazy place.

• 24:13Sam Parr?

  I think, which is kind of shocking. I think Disney or the theme park division prior to COVID was the most profitable part of the company, wasn't it?

• 24:23Shaan Puri?

  Except, well, not profitable because they had a lot of expenses, but in terms of gross profit, yes, because they had a lot of revenue and a lot of expenses. But now Disney plus is like the bigger thing because Disney plus is like pure profit. Disney plus basically took all that IP that people loved and created a streaming service that's

• 24:39Sam Parr?

  But before that, before COVID, before plus, I like Disneyland, it wasn't, it wasn't a project. It was a like a major of value creation. A lot of value was created there.

• 24:49Shaan Puri?

  I wanted to know, is this a, is this a loss leader or is this a, um, a cash cow? And it's, it's more like a cash cow. It's hard to tell because every company is like, accounting makes everything look like it's like losing money. You know what I mean? Like accounting can make something look amazing or terrible regardless of it. But, you know, the parks division, parks and resorts was doing, you know, billions of like, I don't know, like $30 billion a year or something crazy like that. So it was, you know, obviously became a smash success. When he wanted to do Disney world in Florida, he creates five stealth companies because he's like, Disney was a hit. He's like, I'm looking for the second location. If anybody finds out where I'm looking, the price will go up. So he creates five shell companies. He starts buying up land and

• 25:32Shaan Puri?

  Florida. Sure enough, it leaks out. The day after it leaks, the price per, I think acre went from like $180 an acre to $18,000 an acre. Basically, he couldn't buy anymore. Once the news leaked and, and you know, he had this like kind of like inspiring vision. So he's like Disneyland, I want this to be the happiest place on earth. And he's like, I want people to have no problems, no problems with their hair. I want this to be an escape from your problems, you know, in real life. And Disney World, he's like, he created this thing called Epcot, which I don't know if you've ever heard of Epcot, but Epcot is basically

• 26:04Sam Parr?

  Isn't that like a government agency?

• 26:07Shaan Puri?

  It does sound like it though. Epcot is like right next to Disney World. It's this huge dome looking thing. And it stands for, it's an experimental, what is it? It's Experimental Prototype Community of the Future. Something like that of tomorrow. And that's what it stands for. And so what he did was Epcot is basically like, it takes the cutting edge of what the future looks like, and it creates like a mini simulation of the future. So you could go and see the latest, what the, what the future is going to look like in terms of technology.

• 26:36Sam Parr?

  Did you go?

• 26:37Shaan Puri?

  I've been once when I was a kid. Yeah. And it's kind of amazing. And so, and he's like, you know, but all of these projects, I'll read you some of the quotes that I thought was pretty great for him as like an entrepreneur. He goes, I want this to be the happiest place on earth. I want parents and kids to have fun together. He goes, when it came to Epcot, he was saying, where is it? He goes, I want this to be a living blueprint of tomorrow. I want this to be an always evolving thing. Epcot is never going to finish because tomorrow will always be different than today. Disneyland itself will never be completed. It will go, it will go on as long as there is imagination left in the world. And so since then, you know, they built the park for 17 million, but obviously they pour in like hundreds of millions of dollars every year to upgrading

• 27:21Shaan Puri?

  the parks, changing the rides and the themes and all that stuff in order to kind of keep it continuously evolving. So it was kind of amazing.

• 27:31Sam Parr?

  I brought up Six Flags to you a while ago. Do you remember when I brought that up?

• 27:36Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 27:36Sam Parr?

  So the guy who invented, I don't know if he invented, but he inspired me and he kind of invented the genre a little bit of email newsletters. It's this guy named Bob Pittman and he had this accelerator called the Pilot Group. And basically, he funded a bunch of entrepreneurs and he taught them like, he's like, here's what I think you should do. And like five or six relatively big name companies came out of it, like Pure Wow, Daily Candy, Thrillist, which is a multi-billion dollar media company called Group Nine, and like two or three others that you, someone here would recognize. I forget what they're called. And he did this newsletter thing and he like made it huge. Prior to that, he was the CEO of Six Flags.

• 28:19Shaan Puri?

  Oh, really?

• 28:20Sam Parr?

  Yeah, which is kind of interesting. And before that, he invented, or he was like on the founding team for MTV. He helped, he was the first CEO and president of MTV. And his big thing was being, prior to starting the newsletter businesses, he was the CEO of Century 21 Real Estate, which is a multi-billion dollar thing, Clear Channel Outdoor. He was the CEO for a minute of AOL, and then he was the CEO of Six Flags. And it was a killer company when he ran it. And I think pre-pandemic, they raised, they had too much debt, but it was making good money. So these companies, I think, are pretty badass, actually. And they're gonna roar back right now. If you started working on this two years ago, you'd be in an awesome position.

• 29:05Shaan Puri?

  Right. And so I wanted to talk about some of that, like kind of spinoff ideas. And that's, you know, that's, that's the backstory of Disney. But when I'm there, I'm thinking, how could this be better? And so I have one, one tip for Disneyland itself, which is, obviously, the absolute worst part, the only part that takes away your happiness at Disneyland, is waiting in lines. So the average ride, you know, you're waiting 30 minutes to 45 minutes, just to ride this ride for 90 seconds. And especially if you're waiting with like a little kid, and the kids don't understand that you're waiting. They're like, I want to go now. I want my turn. Like, my daughter's just, it's my turn now. It's blushy's turn now. Let's go. And I was like, well,

• 29:45Shaan Puri?

  They do kind of nothing to make the line experience better.

• 29:48Sam Parr?

  Well, don't they have a fast pass that everyone buys?

• 29:50Shaan Puri?

  They used to, and they got rid of it because a bunch of reasons. I think A, everyone was buying it. So it became less useful than B, they got a bunch of shit for it like, oh, you know,

• 29:59Sam Parr?

  It's kind of elitist.

• 30:00Shaan Puri?

  It's elitist. Exactly. So they had to kind of back off that. So they do have this thing called the VIP tour that you can pay for that basically takes you to the front of line of everything. But you have to pay, it's, what is it? It's basically you pay six to 10 grand a day for a group of up to 10 people. And so if you're willing to drop, you know, a thousand dollars per person, you can.

• 30:21Sam Parr?

  Dude, you probably just feel like a huge douche, though, like doing that.

• 30:24Shaan Puri?

  Totally, totally. Yeah. Cause you're just looking at a bunch of sweaty, crying babies.

• 30:28Sam Parr?

  You're like, get out of the way plebes.

• 30:30Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. And so, but I got it. It probably does feel good. So I think the thing that Disneyland needs, the psychology that's associated with this, there was this TED Talk that got popular back in the day. I don't really remember it exactly. I'm kind of going to butcher it, but this guy was like, there was this problem, which was like with a subway station or train station. And everybody was so annoyed with like, I guess like how long the train took to get from one place to another. They, people hated riding the train. So they, they commissioned this like bounty. They said, request for proposals. You know, guests are not happy because the trains are running too slowly. And most people, the common way to solve this was engineers are like, we have to do all these,

• 31:14Shaan Puri?

  we have to do this massive engineering overhaul to make the train go 20% faster, 30% faster. It's just going to require billions of dollars and the trains have to be shut down for two years while we rebuild the train with this new infrastructure that's going to be faster. And then one guy was like a psychologist and he was like, why don't we just make the ride more pleasant? So that you don't feel the slowness of time. He's like, you don't have any food carts on the train. Like there should be a food trolley that's walking through the train for pretty cheap like snacks. And he's like, the person will see the trolley, then the focus will go away from just waiting for the train to arrive to at the destination. To like, waiting for the trolley to get to them and then they'll buy a snack and they'll be eating the snack.

• 31:53Shaan Puri?

  And like, that was like a $2 solution that would, that actually like improved the rider experience by like, you know, whatever, some amazing about percent.

• 32:03Sam Parr?

  I think it's Rory Sutherland who created this.

• 32:06Shaan Puri?

  That's his.

• 32:06Sam Parr?

  Rory Sutherland, if I remember correctly. Yeah, that's right. All right. I knew I recognized this guy. He was, so he's a marketing agency guy and he was the boss of Ogilvy. One of the big advertising firms and their whole shtick is just like perception. And I think the, the, the talk is all on perception.

• 32:24Shaan Puri?

  And, and this exists everywhere. So like Instagram, I remember when they first came out. One of the things that was a magical experience about Instagram was, aside from the photo filters, was that when you would take a photo and you'd say post, it would like instantly load and post. And people were like, how did you do this? Like, that's incredible. And, um, you know, back then iPhones were so bad and the connections were so poor that it would take like multiple minutes to upload a single photo onto the internet. And these guys are doing it in a few seconds.

• 32:51Sam Parr?

  But they weren't probably actually uploading it.

• 32:54Shaan Puri?

  Well, there's, no, no, they were, they actually were. So first he was like, dude, why don't we just like say it's done and then it'll happen in the background and like whatever. But people would go check and they say, oh, it's not posted here. This app doesn't work. So what they did was they realized, oh, every, what everybody does is they wait till the caption's done. To start uploading, they wait till you have the photo, the filter, the caption, until they start uploading the photo. What they did was they separated and they would do it all on one screen. So what Instagram did was they would let you take the photo and filter it. And then they would say next, next, you'd hit a button and then you'd start to write your caption. And they knew people take like two minutes to write their caption, like they're trying to think of what to say. And during that two minutes, they would just upload the image in the background. So the image was already uploaded back there, like during that wait time. And so they, instead of making you wait, they did it while you were already doing something else.

• 33:39Shaan Puri?

  And that was like a big thing. So this perception stuff actually does have an impact in products. That's what I think this thing needs to do. I think they need to.

• 33:45Sam Parr?

  Another example of that is when Uber first came out, and maybe they still have this. When you pull up your phone or when you used to pull up your phone, they would show you all of the cars in your area.

• 33:54Shaan Puri?

  Crawling around the map. Oh, yeah. They're so close to you. And I think that was faked, actually.

• 33:59Sam Parr?

  And it was fake. It wasn't real.

• 34:00Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 34:01Sam Parr?

  And it wasn't real, but it would make you feel like they're everywhere. And if you just click it now, it's about to be here. And sometimes, I don't remember why, if it was random, you would open it up and there'd be no cars around. You're like, oh, F that. I'm gonna go to Lyft. But it was fake and this. Idea, there's this great book called The Design of Everyday Things by Don Norman. And it's a famous, famous book. And in one of the principles of great design is you need a feedback loop. For example, if you were to click a button on your computer, like a submit button, and it wouldn't tell you it was submitted, or something like that, or when you close a door, you don't hear a click, that lack of, that lack of feedback, it, it, it's annoying and it, it's disturbing, it bothers you. And so this is kind of in line a little bit with that.

• 34:42Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, totally. And so I think what Disneyland needs to do is they need line entertainment. They need something to happen in the line to keep you occupied. They need to extend the ride essentially into the line. There needs to be things built into the line, little characters that come out, things that drop from the ceiling, you know, little magical snowflakes that fly out every two minutes, you know, candy that gets thrown into the crowd, whatever. Something needs to happen in the line. That's my, my one tip for Disneyland. Okay. Besides that, I was thinking, why aren't there more of these? So Disneyland was built in 1955. And you have Six Flags, you have like, kind of like smaller adventure parks. But what, what are the other opportunities here? So I think if you take the elements of it, you have a target, which is let's say a kid's,

• 35:27Shaan Puri?

  you have IP that they love. So, you know, they're excited to go see Mickey Mouse and Lion King and Aladdin and Buzz Lightyear from Toy Story and all these characters that they've seen in the movies, they get to see them in real life. That's the big thing. And, and then you have rides and you have food. And you have, also you have parades and amusement, like entertainment that way. So what other niches are like, do you think that there's other business opportunities that somebody who is like a Walt Disney, somebody who is a creative, creative mind could go build today? What do you think is out there?

• 35:59Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I think there's many. And I think that we've actually talked about a few. So the, the first one, which people laughed at, but it's kind of amazing, was the Museum of Ice Cream. And I, I thought that was amazing. Another one is Meow Wolf. Meow Wolf is this business that has locations in Arizona, New Mexico, and Vegas, I think. And I don't remember where else. Supposedly they do north of a hundred million in sales. And it's basically like, it's like if Circus Soleil was a museum and you could walk around and like touch different art and it's kind of like all in your face and it's kind of interesting. I think you can do that. I think that there's one thing that I think is kind of amazing that's out right now, which is it's

• 36:39Sam Parr?

  called the Van Gogh experience. And so I like Van Gogh stuff. My wife is like a huge into that. And so we pay money and we go to the Van Gogh experience. And so I do think that there's like little niche things that you can do related to this. I think that like, what I would do is I would look at what the most popular exhibits of science museums and art museums are, and I would make something special out of it. For example, do you remember like 15 years ago, the body? What was it called?

• 37:09Shaan Puri?

  Bodies.

• 37:10Sam Parr?

  Bodies. I think that's all it was. That way, it was like a huge hit success. And you'd go to all the science centers or whatever they're called, science museums throughout the country, and they have like real life bodies that you can, that like cadavers that were donated and they dissected them and they tell you how the inside of the potty works. That, I mean, I don't know if that's a mainstay somewhere, but like, that's a good example. What I would do is I would look at all the science museum and all the art museum exhibits that are the longest lasting, as well as all the Broadway stuff that's the longest lasting. And I'd be like, all right, well, those are all hits. Like, why are they hits?

• 37:43Shaan Puri?

  Right, right. Things that IP that people love. Yeah, I think if you, I think, I think that the trick here is unbundling. So I don't think you want to make the full theme park. I think you want to unbundle components and either just remix those, or just do only that thing. So I'll give you some of the ideas that I had while I was waiting in line for 45 minutes for a ride. I came up with all, these are the ideas I came up with while I was sitting in line. So the first one was Target Market. The only thing I think people love more than their kid, or love as, and nearly as much as their kid, is their dog. And, and so I'm surprised that there's not a place like Disneyland for dogs that is basically the happiest place on earth for dogs. I would take my dog there if I could just have give my

• 38:25Shaan Puri?

  dog like an amazing day. I would do it. You know, I don't know about you. You're a dog guy too. I don't know if you have that that pull. Ideally, it'd be local, not like, you know, kind of fly to LA to go do this. So maybe it's maybe it's more like a traveling circus. But why is there not just an incredible set of experiences that dogs love? You know, dogs have a blast and and you could see your dog doing it and take pictures of them and give them give them what they deserve. What do you think?

• 38:50Sam Parr?

  Dude, it sounds like an insurance nightmare.

• 38:54Shaan Puri?

  Any more than an amusement park with like

• 38:56Sam Parr?

  Yes.

• 38:56Shaan Puri?

  on roller coasters?

• 38:57Sam Parr?

  Yes, so much worse. You have a foo foo dog that is like, won't hurt anyone. I've got like a 80 pound pit bull who's well behaved, but if he ever wanted to hurt something, he'd kill it. And it sounds like it'd be so challenging to like, I mean, I would be stressed out about that constantly.

• 39:16Shaan Puri?

  Okay, fair enough. We got some liability concerns. All right. What else? We've talked before that IP, how do you get great IP? So Disney obviously used the Disney portfolio of IP Mickey Mouse, Goofy, Donald Duck, whatever. What are the new, what are the new forms of IP? So I think if you ever use YouTube for kids, you're like Cocoon Melon, Blippi, these are characters that they watch just as, you know, just as much as like, you know, Disney movies because so they're on YouTube, they're invented by like kind of individual people there. And then they got all rolled up by this thing called Moonbug. And Moonbug owns a bunch of this stuff. And then Moonbug got rolled up by that thing that Kevin Mayer is doing.

• 39:56Sam Parr?

  For billions, I think.

• 39:58Shaan Puri?

  He was the former CEO of Disney. Then he partnered with Blackstone and Blackstone gave him $2 billion or something like that to go buy all this IP. So he bought Reese Witherspoon's movie studio for 800 million. He bought Cocoon Melon, he bought Blippi, he bought about, about all these different, you know, different forms of IP. So I think that YouTube channels have IP that people care about. That is, if you, if you, if you combine them all together and there was, you know, the way that Disney does is like, there's different areas of the park for each world, each character theme. I think you could do it that way.

• 40:31Sam Parr?

  Dude, yeah, I'm on board with this. Keep going.

• 40:35Shaan Puri?

  Religion is another one. So take.

• 40:38Sam Parr?

  Isn't there, isn't, isn't there, doesn't that exist? Isn't there like a, like a Muslim version of this?

• 40:43Shaan Puri?

  I don't know. Never heard of it.

• 40:45Sam Parr?

  I thought that there was, but in the South, uh, they have, maybe it's Christian. There's like a Christian theme park. Have you not heard of this?

• 40:53Shaan Puri?

  Exactly what I had in mind. No.

• 40:54Sam Parr?

  It's like a Bible. I think it's like a Bible theme park. There is, uh, it's in the, yes, it's like a Christian, I don't, the Holy Land experience is one of them. And then there's a Holy Land and then there's Ark Encounter where it's like a real life sized Noah's Ark. But there is this thing called a Holy Land experience. It's based out of Orlando, Florida.

• 41:15Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Okay. I don't know if that does well or not, but I could see a religious themed theme park doing well, right? The merry go round. That's merry. You know, you got, you got, you got Jesus', Jesus', uh, you know, jumping ride, whatever. You know, you, you just go totally, totally fun with religion.

• 41:31Sam Parr?

  It does. Okay. So it's a nonprofit. So you could actually go and look at all their expenses and revenue. It looks like it brings in, uh, 10 million a year in ticket sales.

• 41:43Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. I think it could do, I think you could do a lot better than that. Them setting it up as a nonprofit tells me that, you know, their ambition is probably not, not, not huge there with it. So I think you could do that with any different religion. Um, okay. What else? The other side of it is like you unbundle parts of the experience. So maybe the parade is amazing. And like, you know, the parade is, is one of the experiences that you could just offer individually, or maybe like Museum of Ice Cream. I think that's a good example is it takes the go take cute photos in front of all these different backdrops and with you in some costume. I think it unbundled that and it just offered that. There's no roller coasters. It's just the photo part. And so I think there's a whole bunch of things here. And I think this is going to get bigger because as the world gets increasingly digital.

• 42:27Shaan Puri?

  There's going to be this demand for real world experiences, but the real world experiences can't be something that I could do digitally just as well. It has to be unique and it has to be sort of exhilarating in a way that is a, it's a reason to get out of the home. It's a reason to get away from a screen. And so things like we've talked about in fitness, like Tough Mudder or Spartan Race, things that are like, you know, photo things like Museum of Ice Cream. And now I think that theme parks are another one where there's a big opportunity to do this well.

• 42:55Sam Parr?

  So I used to work for that TV show. I've talked about a bunch, American Pickers, and we had this store and it was in Nashville. It was a really small store, maybe 4,000 square feet or less. It wasn't very big at all and people would complain all the time. They're like, oh, I thought this was going to be huge. It was tiny and people would come from all over the world, Australia, Europe, all over the South. I mean, people from the South love this crap and they would come and they would, it was free to come and they would just want to look at all the items that they'd seen on TV. And I remember correctly on a, and this was in 2010 ish, when a good day, we would sell 30K in t-shirts and mugs just at that store. We would crush it just off that store.

• 43:38Sam Parr?

  If I was a Mr. Beast or someone who wanted to partner with Mr. Beast, or there's a bunch of these YouTubers, they do a lot of interesting things. There's this one guy, I think his name is Petcock. I forget his exact name. He's this older guy on YouTube with 20 or 15 million subscribers and he shoots every gun. So like any type of gun you can imagine, he has like shot it, like an old revolutionary gun or some like weird experimental shotgun. And it's got a huge following, but he's in the middle of like, he owns like a plot of land where it's like, it's like, you know, you could do anything you want. Same with, there's a couple of the guys, there's another YouTuber named Roman who's got, he's based out of Ohio. He's got this massive plot of land and he's always like inventing all these weird go-karts and shit. Or Mr. Beast always does this weird like epic stuff. If I was a YouTuber, I think you could create like these epic experiences.

• 44:23Sam Parr?

  Do you remember that thing called, do you remember Woodward?

• 44:26Shaan Puri?

  No, what is that?

• 44:28Sam Parr?

  So Woodward was this, it started out, I think in Pennsylvania and it was called Woodward Camp. And it was a sleepaway summer camp in Woodward, PA. And it was a huge outdoor skate park with bunk beds and stuff. And as a kid, you would pay two or three, I don't remember, thousands of dollars. It was expensive enough that like my parents never would have done it. And it's in this rural area and they, you pay all this money to go to this like sleepaway camp and you skateboard and BMX and do all this like crazy shit as a kid that you like, think that like that you see on Rocket Power or whatever. And it crushed and it eventually was sold to Powder, uh, what is it called Powder? It's like the largest, um, or Vail Resorts, one of those. It's like the largest private equity land owning and resort companies in the world. And they eventually bought it for a lot of money.

• 45:13Sam Parr?

  And so anyway, I think, I think there is a lot of movement here.

• 45:16Shaan Puri?

  You saying the Mr. Beast thing just reminded me, um, have you, did I talk about this movie, this documentary, Boys State on here? Did I talk about this?

• 45:24Sam Parr?

  No.

• 45:25Shaan Puri?

  Have you, have you watched this thing?

• 45:27Sam Parr?

  No, Boys?

• 45:28Shaan Puri?

  Boys State, unbelievable documentary, gotta watch it. It's, uh, it's on, um, I don't know if it's on Hulu or Apple TV plus or something like that.

• 45:39Shaan Puri?

  I got, it got recommended to me, I watched it, I loved it. So what Boys State is, it's a camp, it's a one week camp, I think in Texas.

• 45:48Sam Parr?

  And Austin.

• 45:49Shaan Puri?

  It simulates Texas politics. So you get there and, uh, it's like on day one, you get divided into like kind of their, their version of the Democrats and Republicans. It's like, you know, you, you join team blue or team red. And immediately they become like super fucking tribal and like hate the other side, which is hilarious because they just like, it's arbitrary, it's completely arbitrary.

• 46:09Shaan Puri?

  So what this documentary is, is it follows one session of Boys State. Uh, hold on one second.

• 46:17Sam Parr?

  If you, and you could, I'm actually looking at the notable alumni from, uh, it's like everyone, uh, like so, I mean, there's like hundreds of famous people who went, who, famous politicians who went to it.

• 46:28Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. So you go there and you you get divided up to you're on the blue or the red team, Democrats or Republicans. They call it something else. I forget. And then the documentary follows what happens that week, which is you you run the party basically nominates people. So you can say, I want to be governor. I want to be Treasury. I want to be, you know, Vice Governor, whatever the whatever the offices are. So like, there's a handful of roles. You first, you first, you know, debate or you nominate yourself and then you give a speech debate in your party to be the nominee for governor. And then you run against the other the other side. And, and so it's it's kind of an amazing documentary, because it just shows how instantaneously these games, these politics

• 47:12Shaan Puri?

  games, just completely infect your brain and change the way you act. And like, these kids who are like, I don't know how old they are, they seem like they're in like, eighth grade or so. I could be wrong on that. But they're like, they're acting just like a politician acts. They're like, making promises. They're talking about what's wrong in the country. And one side loves guns, the other side hates guns. And it's literally such a simulation. And then at the end, then it follows the election and the election happens and it kind of culminates in like, you know, it follows these five characters and it culminates in one of them winning the thing. And it's just this crazy documentary. So I think that that experience of a camp is kind of interesting, too, to me. I think this has been going on for like, 70 years. And like you said, a whole bunch of like, famous politicians

• 47:54Shaan Puri?

  went and actually did this when they were kids. And when you said Mr. Beast, that reminded me of, like, why isn't there a creator camp? Like, okay, what we talked about Boy Scouts going under and like, who's going to replace Boy Scouts? If Mr. Beast basically said, come to this one week sleepaway camp and create, become a creator, like, create your channel. And like, it's all about you're going to be here, we hand you a little selfie stick with a camera, and you're going to create your vlog content, you're going to create your channel, you're going to create your brand, you're going to have your fans, you're going to follow each other's channels. And like, it's just a place to like, come to learn how to be a creator.

• 48:30Sam Parr?

  And that's actually a fantastic idea, because if you look at the stats, I think that either you or me or one of us shared something where they asked, like, 18 year olds, what they want to do when they grow up and like 20 or 30% like a shocking large number said they wanted to be a YouTube creator. And the second largest thing I think was a Twitch creator, like it was still the same thing.

• 48:50Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, basically it's a video like a YouTuber basically is number one and that's just kind of all encompassing of like an online content creator. And it used to be back in the day like athlete, musician, you know, politician, scientist, astronaut, and like 10 about 10 years ago, you know, it flipped and a YouTuber became number one. And people you look at that, they shake their fists and say, this is what's wrong with the country. And other people say, other people who realize that you can't pass a judgment like that. It's a sort of like is what if that's what people want, that's what people want, you just

• 49:20Sam Parr?

  Also, if kids, if kids are actually going to follow through on what they would say when they were younger, there'd be a whole lot more marine biologists in the world.

• 49:27Shaan Puri?

  Exactly.

• 49:30Sam Parr?

  Like

• 49:31Shaan Puri?

  I would be a dinosaur right now.

• 49:32Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it doesn't seem like there's exactly that many vets out there.

• 49:35Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. So I think that's a great idea. It's like, you know, if a couple of YouTubers got together, I think they could have, you know, and I think it's fan service too. So I think you would just become more famous. You'd build fan love and you'd print like, I don't know, $20 million every summer, running your camp. It's a pain in the ass, but you could do that. And I think like, I went to a space camp from NASA when I was like in fifth grade.

• 49:56Sam Parr?

  Did you really?

• 49:58Shaan Puri?

  The state of Texas sent every fifth grader to it. So it's kind of amazing.

• 50:00Sam Parr?

  What?

• 50:01Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. And they only did it once. So I was just lucky to be in that timing.

• 50:05Sam Parr?

  I wanted to do that when I was a kid so badly.

• 50:07Shaan Puri?

  It's an amazing thing. You go there and you get to be in a rocket ship and like you get to play commander and like do all the stuff. But I feel like for many jobs, there's a version of that. Like, I think people are fascinated with prisons. I think they're fascinated with the police. I think they're fascinated with the army. And like, if you could create like amusement parks or simulations of that, where you get to take your pictures, you get to touch the stuff, you get to see how it works, you get to learn some things. People will pay for that. And I think they're going to see more out of home experiences like that get built.

• 50:35Sam Parr?

  Can we move on to the shitty billy of the week?

• 50:39Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 50:40Sam Parr?

  Or do you want to go to a different one?

• 50:42Shaan Puri?

  No, it's good. It's just a crazy story. I don't even know what the point is. Point of this one.

• 50:45Sam Parr?

  Let's go to a different one. Let me do a different one.

• 50:47Shaan Puri?

  All right, let's do a quick one. Quick idea. This, I saw this, it kind of caught my eye. This guy, um, what's his name? I'll give him credit real quick. Somebody, somebody sent this to us in the Facebook group and, uh,

• 50:57Sam Parr?

  Which one?

• 50:58Shaan Puri?

  Interesting. So it's a specialnames.cn. So, uh, what's the guy's name? The guy's name, Mike, Mike Benitez shared this. So specialname.cn. What is it? Basically, there's a story that came out of this girl who paid her way through college. She's basically made a few hundred thousand dollars and all she does is she names Chinese babies with American names. So, so basically in China, every Chinese person typically will have a Western name. So, you know, if their name is hard to say, they know, they kind of know that for, for business purposes and travel purposes, it's just easier to have to like, be like, yes, I also go by Mike.

• 51:33Shaan Puri?

  Or I go by Emerald, or I go by, you know, Samantha. And so, um, but the problem is, you know, it's not your native thing. So if it's like, if I tried to pick a Chinese name right now, I might pick something that's really weird or off. Like it doesn't sound quite right. And so you see these things where Chinese people named their baby like Rolex, uh, would be like their Western name. It's like, no, no, no, you shouldn't have picked that one. Like, you know, that's kind of a strange name. If you were trying to have like an easy Western name, you actually like backfired. So what this woman services, she, you could go to specialname.cn and the site is hilarious. If you go to the website, it's like, are you on the website? It's like,

• 52:07Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I'm looking at it now. Look at the counter. It says, the baby we named, and it says a million, they've, they've named over a billion babies, but the English is, is off.

• 52:16Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. And well, the actual site's in Chinese. I think it's a Google Translate that you're looking at. And, uh, you just say, boy or girl? I think you submit some information or a picture of the baby and she just closes her eyes. Basically it says Jasmine.

• 52:28Sam Parr?

  And no, so you, you, you pick five attributes like, um, nice, honest, kind, eager, keen. And I did that and it gave me the names Zachary, Caleb or Harvey. And it says, the famous Harveys are Harvey Firestone, Harvey Ball, and then Caleb, Caleb Carr. I don't know who that is. Is that a famous actor? Zachary Taylor, I guess, the American president. Yeah, it's pretty funny.

• 52:53Shaan Puri?

  And so this site, I thought, what an example of niches make riches and like just solve a simple problem for people. And you know, this girl's made, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars just off this website. And I thought that was like

• 53:06Sam Parr?

  How does it make money?

• 53:07Shaan Puri?

  Really cool side hustle for a college kid.

• 53:10Sam Parr?

  It just make, they just make money through ads?

• 53:12Shaan Puri?

  I think, yeah, I don't know exactly. I thought you pay her to do it, but maybe you're saying you just got a name right away.

• 53:18Sam Parr?

  I just got a name?

• 53:19Shaan Puri?

  I was doing it on my phone. So it might be ads or it might be a premium upsell.

• 53:22Sam Parr?

  And they, and they, and the logo is just this generic looking white lady.

• 53:28Sam Parr?

  Like that's like the spokesperson.

• 53:29Shaan Puri?

  If that's her or not.

• 53:32Sam Parr?

  That's definitely not her.

• 53:33Shaan Puri?

  So let me do this. Oh yeah. It's like a cartoon.

• 53:38Sam Parr?

  This is awesome.

• 53:39Shaan Puri?

  So this is a hilarious little side hustle that I, that I loved. Okay, let's do, let's do the shitty Billy of the week. I read the story and I was blown away. This is not really, this is interesting only in that it's a train wreck. Did you see this story about this venture capitalist that came out?

• 53:54Sam Parr?

  Just now.

• 53:56Shaan Puri?

  So there's this guy named Michael Gogan. He used to be a partner at Sequoia, right? Like the, one of the biggest venture firms ever.

• 54:02Sam Parr?

  Is he the one who stole money from them?

• 54:05Shaan Puri?

  No, he got fired because his girlfriend came out and accused him, like sued him for, accused him of, of like sexual abuse. She said, you know, he's, I've been in a relationship with him for eight years or 10 years or something like that. And he's extremely abusive sexually to me and blah, blah, blah. She's a stripper that he met somewhere and then she became his girlfriend and then whatever. And the suit, he didn't lose the suit. He, you know, she kind of like, he got acquitted or whatever. But, you know, still Sequoia was like, you know, we decided it's best to part ways. So a story came out in the Daily Mail. You know, it's good because it's in the Daily Mail, which is like, you know, just the, the trash of the trash, but it's the junk food. You can't resist. And basically there was some wild shit about this guy. So here's the allegations

• 54:49Shaan Puri?

  that are in the article. The article says, Michael Gogan, he basically, after he left Sequoia, he goes to Montana and he basically sets up his like estate in Montana. He owns like, I don't know, 100,000 square feet of like space of houses in Montana. He is like the big fish there. He owns a bar, under the bar, he created this thing called Boom Boom Room and the Boom Boom Room is where he takes like, you know, girls that he meets and he, so this guy's on his fourth wife. The article talks about this spreadsheet of 5,000 women that he slept with and it's just-

• 55:25Sam Parr?

  Have you, have you done the, wait, say that again. Say the 5,000 thing again.

• 55:28Shaan Puri?

  A spreadsheet of 5,000 women that he slept with is-

• 55:31Sam Parr?

  Okay, so do the math. If you, so if you, if this has happened over a 20 year period-

• 55:38Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 55:39Sam Parr?

  365 days times 20 is 7,300 divided by five. That means he had to have sex with a different woman every 1.5 days.

• 55:47Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, every day and a half.

• 55:48Sam Parr?

  Is that crazy? What? I don't believe that. That doesn't make sense to me.

• 55:53Shaan Puri?

  I don't know if it's, I don't know if he did it or he didn't. Sort of like the Wilt Chamberlain did this ones where he claimed he slept with 10,000 women and people were like, that means you slept with two women a day. Like this doesn't make any sense.

• 56:03Sam Parr?

  Yeah, his response, by the way, he was like, yeah, sometimes it was three though.

• 56:07Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. Most pimp response ever. So this guy, this guy's wild. So, so he basically, there's tons of, so what happened was he had created this like security company to cover his tracks and it's like a private security company. And he hired these like ex-military people to run it for him and they were kind of like his fixers. They're the ones who came out and exposed this whole thing and are now suing him for $800 million. So they're suing him because he basically made them do a bunch of stuff that like got them in trouble. So he'd have to pay off women that he would sleep with and they would have, he'd be like, you need to do this. Like go, I'll put money in your account, you pay her off. And, and eventually one guy, so he had a friend who, the story is he, he brings

• 56:50Shaan Puri?

  his daughters over to the friend's house with their babysitter, but then he leaves with the babysitter, has sex with the babysitter and the friend is like, dude, what the hell are you doing? You just had sex with the babysitter in my house? Like this is messed up. And he's like- He calls him a pedophile and he's like, dude, uh, like, I don't, you know, don't, don't bring up my, my flaws and like, you know, there's a one time thing and blah, blah, blah. And the guy's like, no, this messed up. And he's like, starts threatening the guy. He threatens the guy and says, if you come out and say this, I'm gonna like ruin you. And, um, the guy's like, you know, F that. He then sleeps with the guy's wife to, as like, you know, part of this, a part of this process. And the guy gets really pissed. And he's like, threatens to basically expose him for all the stuff that he's doing.

• 57:33Shaan Puri?

  While he's meanwhile, like an investor and all this stuff, you know, leading this professional life. The guy's worth $5 billion, by the way. So he's, he's, he's a, he's a multi billionaire himself. So the guy goes to his like, security guy and says, we need to kill him. We, we had this guy's getting too, he's too big of a risk. He threatens to bring everything down. We gotta kill him and don't, and they're basically like, in the article is like, don't like communicate anywhere except for Wicker, this like self deleting text messaging app. And the guy goes to him and says, hey, hey, like talks him off the ledge. No, let's not kill this guy, whatever. But though that was like one of the allegations and, and so people have come out against this guy. But he bribes the police. And so like multiple police chiefs have like, lost their job because they failed to investigate this guy. Because he basically bought them off and

• 58:18Sam Parr?

  How much you think, how much you think you'd have to bribe a Montana cop to shut up? Like a million dollars? I mean, yeah, I think, I think nine out of 10 police officers would take a million to shut up.

• 58:28Shaan Puri?

  Oh, in my deep experience bribing cops, I mean, I have no idea. I think like half a million dollars would do, right? Like for a lot of these women, it's like jewelry, uh, like he, he slept with one woman and then she got, uh, the husband found out, got divorced. And then he paid for, he bought her a five bedroom home and also paid for her side of the divorce. And, uh, you know, that was like one of the things that he did. And so he just had this like elaborate web of, you know, crazy, like this crazy sexual life layered on to crazy like payoffs and bribes and cover ups. And then like a whole company dedicated to like this private security company, whatever that means. And then like police bribery, like this is like a crazy ass three part movie.

• 59:09Shaan Puri?

  And then you look at this guy and he's just like this, you know, cookie cutter, white VC looking guy. It was like such a wild story, I thought. And, um, yeah, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

• 59:20Sam Parr?

  So I um, I've read, I, I, I read a little bit about like odd billionaires and I've maybe interacted with one or two before. And does it, have you ever met someone who's like in the hundreds of millions or billions of dollars who has like some weird shit where like, like they have a, like, for example, this is like public knowledge, Peter Thiel basically employed this, this three lawyers, big shot lawyers, and they're, and basically when he was outed as gay by Gawker, he employed, and this is a great book by Ryan Holiday, I forget what it's called, but he employed these three lawyers, and I forget when he was outed, but something like oh nine, and he goes, however long it takes, your full-time job.

• 1:00:05Shaan Puri?

  Like a decade, yeah.

• 1:00:06Sam Parr?

  Yeah, he goes, just wait for Gawker and those guys to screw up. And when they slip up, tell me and we're gonna pounce. And he employed these guys the whole time. And there's some crazy stuff about Peter Thiel, like, for example, in the book, they said that he has a black Mercedes with the engine on everywhere he goes in the world. So like, that's what it, like, he always, he's got a team and they, they, they have to have a car like at all times. And he also has land in New Zealand because he's a little bit nervous about apocalypse. And so my question is, have you, do you think you've ever met like a billionaire or someone like that who's got some of these weird ass things, like a, like a security force who does exotic things like this?

• 1:00:44Shaan Puri?

  A fixer, yeah. I think so. So I worked with this guy, I've talked about him before. I worked with this crazy, kinda like-

• 1:00:51Sam Parr?

  Like the Filipino guy?

• 1:00:52Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, in Indonesia. Crazy guy in Indonesia that was, I talked about before, I mean, he's like a dropout in grade school, self-made, I think he was worth $500 million, kind of like at his peak. And $500 million in Indonesia is like, you know, $10 billion here in America. And um, And you know, he, he had a crazy elaborate like business like his, him as my boss was really weird. Like he was a really insane boss. I told you, but he had a giant projector in the office like on the wall that had everybody's computer tracked and your productivity was like this, like he bought the software from Boeing and basically used it to like show like your, your little square would flash red if you weren't being productive enough. And I don't even know how it was like

• 1:01:35Shaan Puri?

  measuring that, like just how much you were typing, I guess. I don't know. And it was like this intimidation thing on, you know, he had four women that just managed his email. Um, like if you did good in a meeting, he would walk in the next day and just hand you keys to like a new Mercedes that's outside. He's like, this is yours, drive it around. And like, you know, he did crazy shit like that. Like, I remember a meeting once where a friend of his came in from Singapore and they were basically just openly talking about like a insider trading slash pump and dump scheme that they were doing. And I was like, whoa, that's like crazy illegal. Um, and they were like, yeah, it's great. We're gonna make so much money. It's, this is, this is gonna work. It's gonna be awesome.

• 1:02:10Sam Parr?

  You said, you said this is illegal?

• 1:02:12Shaan Puri?

  I didn't say, I was sitting there in the room being like in my head. I think this, I'm 20 years, I think I was 21 years old. Like I didn't know shit about shit at that point, but I knew enough to be like, I think this is wrong, what they're talking about. And then he would, you know, every day would, after work would take everybody to the bar, whoever his kind of like insider crew was. And two girls would be there. Those were like, you know, his escorts for the day or whatever. And like, that's just the way he did business. And he bribed officials and he did all kinds of stuff. He ended up in jail. He ended up dying in jail. He actually died this year. And, um, you know, this is a pretty crazy life. Uh, and yeah, I worked with this guy for only like three months and then I left and I came back and started a startup here, but like, you know, that guy was wild. Like he lived a wild life.

• 1:02:55Sam Parr?

  That's awesome. Yeah, I've, uh, I don't know if I've have any firsthand knowledge of, or if I've like been friends with people, maybe I have and they just haven't told me. But, uh, I do believe that like people like this guy, this Gogan guy, I don't know. I haven't heard this.

• 1:03:11Shaan Puri?

  This Gogan guy is like on some Jeffrey Epstein shit, right? Like this is a modern day Jeffrey Epstein situation. Um, maybe I guess it's not underage girls. I guess that's, that's the difference. But like, basically, you know, just like a harem of women and coverups and bribes and intimidation. And he's got this bunker and he's like bribing police. And like, if these things are true, which you don't know if they're true or not, but this thing came out. It's pretty crazy. Uh, it's, it's a wild story.

• 1:03:38Sam Parr?

  Yeah, this is crazy. I didn't know about this. I would believe just based off what I believe this is very, this could be very true. Like this doesn't shock me, like knowing what I know a little bit like, and I have heard like rumors of people who I'm like second hand or third hand connected with that they're freaks. And like I hear some stories about what they do to cover it up. And I 100% believe this.

• 1:04:04Shaan Puri?

  And Silicon Valley are very successful, like things that I didn't realize until I kind of got closer to, I'm not inside that circle because I'm not like in that, that tier. But I had a couple of friends in that circle and it's like two things that are way more common than I ever would have thought. Swinging, swinging is like super common in Silicon Valley.

• 1:04:24Sam Parr?

  Dude, it's weird. It's weird.

• 1:04:27Shaan Puri?

  You know about this pineapple thing, by the way?

• 1:04:29Sam Parr?

  Tell me.

• 1:04:30Shaan Puri?

  So I learned this from Tik Tok. I don't know if this is real or not, but basically like this, the silent symbol for signaling to others, if you're a swinger or not, apparently is a upside down pineapple. So if you go to a house and they have a picture of a pineapple that's upside down, it's a wink to anybody else who's in the lifestyle that, hey, we're down. I had, I had no idea.

• 1:04:47Sam Parr?

  That's crazy.

• 1:04:48Shaan Puri?

  Or if they're wearing like pineapple earrings or something at a party.

• 1:04:51Sam Parr?

  I've got a girlfriend who does it and she, and, and she tells me about it. And my wife and I were like, I was like, Sarah, like, you know, like, I'm not interested in this. Just so you know, like, I don't want to do this. This is this. And she's like, yeah, me neither, but it's so fun to hear about.

• 1:05:08Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. I'm like Uber, Uber.

• 1:05:10Sam Parr?

  Dude, I've got a couple of friends that are into it. Down here in Austin where I live, uh, these guys have this company, you know, on it. Aubrey Marcus, and then he's got this other guy named Kyle, uh, who is a friend or works there. I'm not sure of the relationship, but they like, they mix work and play. And they're open about their other, they have open relationships and they talk about it. Kyle Kingsbury, I think his name is, and they talk about it on the podcast, on their podcast that they, they share, they share relationships.

• 1:05:37Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it's, I mean, you know, more power to you if it's your thing. I, what I'm saying is I didn't know how common that was, like swinging or that lifestyle, but it is very common. Like successful Silicon Valley people. Same thing with drugs like, you know, my either microdosing or normal dosing of certain drugs. Like, I guess like, there's a certain level of party that I just never did and had never had the urge to do that. I think is like pretty common amongst amongst like this group of people and like, you know, good for them.

• 1:06:10Sam Parr?

  Dude, I'm such a prude. I've been out with like some like really powerful people who I looked up to and I saw them that whenever I've seen him do coke, I'm like, oh, I don't, I don't really like you as much as I used to like you. It just like, it made me uncomfortable. I didn't feel, I didn't like it. But this is crazy. And it is way more common than I than I thought, living in Silicon Valley. I think what it is, is like, if you're a nerd, and you're now worth a billion dollars, or hundreds of millions, which is basically the same thing, and you could do anything you want, you you want to do stuff. And also, if you are young, and you have money, you have to up the ante consistently. So Dan Blazarian has this new book out. And either in

• 1:06:53Sam Parr?

  the book, or in an interview about the book, he was saying how he's like, man, I've had every woman that I could ever want. I have private fancy chefs. I drive the best cars. I fly private. I do, I do the fanciest stuff. None of it makes me happy anymore. Because I have to go bigger and bigger and bigger in order to help my dopamine and make it work. And now, like, none of it makes me happy. So I just like, I try to be simple now. Although, like, it's really hard. But all the items, they don't, they don't bring me joy.

• 1:07:25Shaan Puri?

  Speaking of making me happy, there was this thing that I saw that I thought was pretty cool. It's not really like a business idea necessarily, but I think it's worth a read. So let me put a link to it. Worship the link. One sec, let me grab it. Basically, there's this guy, I want to give him credit, because it's a very interesting read. And I'll explain it while I'm looking for the link. So basically, there's this guy who Dan Lu, I think is his name.

• 1:07:52Sam Parr?

  How do you spell it?

• 1:07:53Shaan Puri?

  Dan Normal and then L U U. And go to this link. So go just search.

• 1:08:01Shaan Puri?

  Or nevermind, I'll just slack it to you. So go to this link and this guy, this post, and basically what he, all he did was he's like, hey, um, you know, there's, there's all these like claims that you'll hear commonly. You'll hear them over and over and over again, and they're referencing studies. And they have fancy names and then they reference studies and then people take them as facts. And then if you're, he's like, turns out, if you actually go read the study, the claim is either way weaker than what people use it as, like I think, or it's literally the opposite. It gives four examples and I loved reading this, so I want to go through them real quick. So one is on happiness, which you just said. So we had talked about this before, which is people have this thing where they say,

• 1:08:43Shaan Puri?

  there's a, there's a link between happiness and, uh, and income. And basically the, the thing you'll hear in pop science is beyond $75,000, you know, your happiness doesn't go up beyond that amount. So what does this mean? And it's total bullshit. Don't chase money and, um, don't chase money. You should, it's not going to make you any happier. And so he's like, so he goes and he's like, because it's become common knowledge that, that money doesn't make people happy. How much is enough? You know, people have different things. If you Google it, if you say happiness income, it'll say, um, household income of $75,000. After that, your day to day happiness doesn't rise. He goes, this happiness, uh, correlate income like study was actually done multiple times,

• 1:09:28Shaan Puri?

  not just one time. And, um, and you know, the problem is like, when people looked at the graph, it looks like happiness was up, up, up, up, up, and then it flattens out. He's like, the problem is it's on a log scale. And like, most people just don't know how to read a long scale graph. A long scale graph means you're going up by factor of 10 every time. So even if it's, even if it's flattening out, that might be going from 10 to 50. It just doesn't look like as big of a jump because it's not like the increments are on a log scale. So basically, if you actually look at it, uh, if you actually look at the, and you know, this got published in Dan Gilbert's like book, uh, on, uh, on, on Babel, uh, you know, economics and stuff like that.

• 1:10:09Shaan Puri?

  And basically, if you actually look at the chart, the chart shows that if you look at it on a non-log scale, which he puts the graph here, it's basically like, the more money you have, the more your satisfaction goes up. And there is no flattening out. It doesn't go up at the same rate. So yes, it's true that going from $0 to $30,000 to $75,000 gives you a bigger jump in happiness than going from 1 million to 2 million, or 2 million to 4 million. But the happiness does keep going up. Your satisfaction does keep going up on all the reported scales. And it's basically like, you know, there may be some point where you stop getting returns, but we haven't found it yet. You

• 1:10:49Shaan Puri?

  know, like, on average, people have not found that yet. So, and actually, there are things that like, that I, and if you dig in, he actually pointed out some, that there's, there are some things that, that contradict this claim. So what people used to say is, oh yeah, you'll get that money, then you'll return to what they call your set point of happiness. So you get all this money, you win the lottery, yeah, within a few months, you're back to your set point of happiness. If you were depressed before, you'll be depressed after. And, and he's like, you know, it turns out that that's not true. Winning the lottery actually does make you happier. If you look at, if you actually look at the study. The second thing is, the reverse, they also say is true. Something bad happens to you, people will say, oh, you're so resilient, you'll bounce right back to your, your previous

• 1:11:33Shaan Puri?

  level of happiness. And he's like, actually, if you go look at the study, it actually does show that disability, divorce, loss of a partner, unemployment, actually have long-term negative effects on happiness. And even like unemployment, after you get re-employed, it still persists. And that's what the studies actually show. He's like, it's kind of amazing, you know, how this can happen. Like, the study literally says what the answer is, and then people will summarize it as something completely different. Like, they'll either take a very weak effect, and make it sound like it's a total, like, strong effect. Or they'll take something that said, no correlation, and they'll say it's a correlation. He has four examples.

• 1:12:07Sam Parr?

  Or usually, what happens is like, there'll be a time where someone has one cute line in a study, and then a news article cites it, and then a thousand things cite that. Another example of that. Yes. Have you heard that? It's a crazy stat. I don't remember exactly. Somewhere like half of Americans can't afford a $500 bill.

• 1:12:29Shaan Puri?

  If an emergency came up.

• 1:12:30Sam Parr?

  So I, I went and read, I was, I was like, I don't believe that that's true. And I went and looked at where I, I researched this a while ago and it's bullshit. It's, it's that, that's a, it's a, what happened is, um, there was a study done and there was a line in the abstract saying like, you know, like this could be as bad as, it said something like a non-committal, like perhaps, or maybe, or like something like that where it's like, I forget exactly how the scientist or the, the, the, how she phrased it, but it's, it's not true. It's not a fact. It was like, uh, it was just a line. And so many people sided that and ran with it to believe it's true. Another example is, uh, I believe the food pyramid.

• 1:13:14Sam Parr?

  So the food pyramid, I, if I remember correctly, they were, it was like a hypothesis or something. It was like, we just, we think this might be true. And like, some people were just kind of tink, it was like a, it was like a project someone was tinkering with. And I think it was WHO, the World Health Organization, took it and ran with it. And they're like, well, you know, we don't know if this is real. And in fact, in the nineties, they had to change it because they're like, well, we actually put like all fats and all carbs in the same category. When they're like, you know, it was just like this oversimplification that some people were just tinkering with and someone ran with it. And there's loads of examples. We should actually do an entire podcast just on examples of that. Another one is like, dude, have you ever heard that you could see the Great Wall of China from space?

• 1:13:52Shaan Puri?

  Heard that. Is that not true?

• 1:13:54Sam Parr?

  It's of course it's not true. If you could see the Great Wall of China from space, why couldn't you see like a highway?

• 1:13:58Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it's true. The height, the height wouldn't really matter.

• 1:14:01Sam Parr?

  Because it's so easy to get these one-liners and run with them and you get, they're really cool. You could find a lot of them in interesting studies. And I've actually been learning, Peter Attia, this guy named Peter Attia, has this really good blog post on how to read studies. And so I read health studies all the time and you can go and read them and they'll make these broad claims. But you'll say, oh, well, you tested this on only 20 people. And they just, these 20 people like called you or checked in with you occasionally for the like three weeks. Like they called you every other day. We don't know what they were doing throughout the day. Like there's just so much information going on. Who knows, you know, exactly what happened. It's not good enough to say it's a fact.

• 1:14:37Shaan Puri?

  There's a, there's a name for effect. I don't remember the name of it, but it's, it describes this phenomenon. The name doesn't really.

• 1:14:43Sam Parr?

  Is it Dunning Kruger?

• 1:14:44Shaan Puri?

  Dunning Kruger is a good one. That's in this, in this thing that he talks about, but there's an effect like this, uh, which is like, there's something that happens where you read a newspaper story and let's say a day to day, you read the newspaper, you say, okay, this is good. It's informing me. I trust this. This must be true if it's here. And then you read about something you know about and you actually see, oh my God, like I actually know about this. And this is actually either not quite right, totally off, or misses, it leaves out some important information. So you would think that people would, once they have that experience, they would like readjust their trust in the rest of the newspaper. And the name of the effect is this some kind of like amnesia effect where like you, um, you turn the page and then you resume trusting the next thing that you didn't know about that's in the newspaper.

• 1:15:29Shaan Puri?

  It's like, even though you just sort of proved to yourself that like, this should not be the, you know, the record, the canon of like, what's true and what's, what's not about a subject. Um, but there's this like common effect, which is that people will experience it on something they know. And then as soon as they get back to something they don't know, they, uh, sort of rebound back. I forgot the name of that, but I've seen this to be true. You know, for me, for me, I, I, I hope at least, at least, you know, that was one of the biggest changes of my childhood was I used to think if something was in the newspaper or on CNN that like.

• 1:15:58Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:59Shaan Puri?

  That's what it is.

• 1:15:59Sam Parr?

  And you know, it changed, and you know, it changes it when you become the person writing it. So I became the person writing it and you know, I created a website and I would write stuff and I saw people cite it. Sometimes you and I will say stuff and we're saying like around, or we're saying, I heard this crazy story about X, Y, and Z. And hopefully we think that people are saying like, you know, this is just banter and like, we don't, it's when we do know the facts, we'll say it's a fact. But oftentimes we're like, you know, I think it's a round blank and I'll see people cite us. And I'm like, well, you took that out of context. So I, I was just, I wasn't well researched on that. I would just kind of, I kind of knew it. And it, once you become the person making the news, you see that it's bullshit. And that's why I believe that fake news, even though people are like criticizing Trump for that. I'm like, it is actually real. It's very easy to make fake.

• 1:16:43Shaan Puri?

  This is, you know, what's the difference between, you know, CNN and the WWE, there's not much. They make up storylines for entertainment. And, uh, and so like, you know, the, all these three letter acronyms, the NFL, same way. It's storylines for entertainment. And like, if you say that the news is just reality TV, right? It's storylines loosely based on reality. That's very different than, you know, getting your information from it. And I get it, it's tiring to go try to get accurate firsthand information a lot. And people use shortcuts and that's why, that's why the system is the way it is. But, um, you know, the sooner you, sooner you realize that the news is just entertainment,

• 1:17:27Shaan Puri?

  the faster you'll either stop consuming it or consume it with like a very severe filter that says, this may or may not be true. I'd like to cross check this again. If it's important, I should go dig into it. If it's not important, uh, you know, I should kind of like, you know, take it with a grain of salt.

• 1:17:44Sam Parr?

  This is great.