Decoding Tony Hawk’s mindset in 72 minutes

30+ unsexy business ideas: https://clickhubspot.com/pdnb Episode 860: Sam Parr ( https://x.com/theSamParr ) and Shaan Puri ( https://x.com/ShaanVP ) chop it up with skateboarding legend Tony Hawk. — Show Notes: (0:00) Intro (1:20) Meeting Tony in Ethiopia (3:42) Economics of skate parks (12:38) The price of greatness (17:54) Scraping by (26:33) The 900 (35:16) Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater (52:20) Investing (58:53) Influencing on internet culture (1:03:47) Aging skaters (1:08:07) Tickets — Check Out Sam's Stuff: • Hampton (joinhampton.com): My community for founders. Average member does $25m/year. Many of the guests are members. Get after it...apply: http://joinhampton.com/mfm — Check Out Shaan's Stuff: • Shaan's weekly email - https://www.shaanpuri.com • Visit https://www.somewhere.com/mfm to hire worldwide talent like Shaan and get $500 off for being an MFM listener. Hire developers, assistants, marketing pros, sales teams and more for 80% less than US equivalents. • Mercury - Shaan uses Mercury across all of his companies. you can too: http://mercury.com/ Mercury is a fintech company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group, Column, N. A., Members FDIC • I run all my newsletters on Beehiiv and you should too + we're giving away $10k to our favorite newsletter, check it out: beehiiv.com/mfm-challenge My First Million is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by HubSpot Media // Production by Arie Desormeaux // Editing by Ezra Bakker Trupiano /

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Fourth game just got released. It got to be in the top 10 of sales right away. And he said, the first three are still in the top 10. And I said, what does that even mean? And he's like, this is what it means. And he slid a check across the table for $4.5 million. That's how I made my first million.

• 0:25Sam Parr?

  Tony, can we show you something really quick? Just so you understand how real this is all about to be.

• 0:32Speaker 00

  Ah, sure.

• 0:33Sam Parr?

  So we're business nerds, but at least one of us has grown up watching you. And I'm going to show you why I like talking to you. This is me skating. Can you see this video?

• 0:43Speaker 00

  Wow, that's awesome.

• 0:45Sam Parr?

  So.

• 0:46Speaker 00

  Is that 360 flip racer?

• 0:47Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I'm 37 years old.

• 0:49Speaker 00

  Damn.

• 0:49Sam Parr?

  So look, there's a sixth there.

• 0:51Speaker 00

  I'm jealous. That's amazing. Was that, was that the Riverside Park right there?

• 0:55Sam Parr?

  Riverside Skate Park. I moved right by it just, and I go every Saturday and Sunday.

• 0:58Speaker 00

  Sick. I'll meet you there so you can teach me how to relearn 360 flips.

• 1:03Sam Parr?

  Yeah, right. Have you skated there a bunch?

• 1:05Speaker 00

  I can't do them on flat anymore. I, I can only do them on banks.

• 1:08Sam Parr?

  Well, that's more impressive, but I grew up watching you forever. And so it's pretty cool that we've, we've intersected at this strange place called My First Million, where we talk about business and stuff, but I'm so excited to talk to you. I know Sean is too.

• 1:19Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, actually, Sam, I have a funny story. So I met Tony once, many years ago now, like 10 years ago. We went on a trip to Ethiopia with Charity Water.

• 1:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's true. I was like, I know that face.

• 1:30Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. So we're in the middle of nowhere. It's like, there's no, there's no service. There's no nothing. There's no water, right? That's why we're there. There's no water in these, these villages. And we're on the side of a mountain to kind of doing a hike. And this guy's like, Tony Hawk. And he recognized Tony Hawk on the middle, on the side of a mountain in Ethiopia. A place where they didn't, you know, they didn't even have anything. It was incredible. And the funny thing was the whole trip was like a bunch of who's, it's like, oh, this guy created Spotify. This guy created this. Nobody knew anyone except for Tony Hawk. He got recognized on the side of a mountain. I thought that was unbelievable.

• 2:02Speaker 00

  That was a fun trip. I had never experienced anything so remote for sure. But also how, like, you know, with the whole mission of a life-changing water, like it was, it was insane. We got to fix wells. That was wild.

• 2:14Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, we got to see the water come out for the first time in a, in a, when the guys are like blast and stuff like that. It was, it was amazing.

• 2:21Sam Parr?

  How'd you get looped into that, Tony?

• 2:23Speaker 00

  I was a, a big donor to Charity Water and I had actually sponsored a well in the name of my daughter, who was very young at the time. She's now in college. But we got to go visit the actual well and people were, were thanking me on my daughter's behalf. And it was, it was really cool.

• 2:40Shaan Puri?

  That's one of the, the amazing things Charity Water did, and this is really not about charity. It's kind of a business lesson. You know, when Scott started Charity Water, he had no background in charity. But he decided like, hey, why, he just asked himself the question, why don't I give to charity more? He's like, well, I think the main thing is you don't know where the money goes. You kind of give it. It's a black box. You just sort of, you hope something good's happening, but you never really feel the impact, see the impact. And so what he was doing was, you know, if you donated, you get like a GPS tracker of exactly where in the world your thing was going, you would see the flow meter of how much water is coming from your well. Once it comes online and then, you know, for, for people like Tony, who were doing like a, a full well, you know, he would do these once in a lifetime type of things. You could go see it, go see the place

• 3:24Shaan Puri?

  and go talk to the people who are like the beneficiaries of this. And I just think that that was such an unlock for him and why Charity, one of the reasons Charity Water was able to do so well as a nonprofit compared to the kind of standard operating procedures of nonprofits.

• 3:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, I agree. Well, also, I mean, coming from having my own foundation, I see how more engaging it is to have, to know where your money goes. Like there's money that goes to research and that's hard to track and it obviously has value. But when we do skate parks, you have literal concrete proof of where your money goes. And here it is. And you can go skate it.

• 4:02Sam Parr?

  What year did you start doing that?

• 4:04Speaker 00

  2002.

• 4:06Sam Parr?

  Okay. And how many have you built?

• 4:07Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. It's getting close to a thousand that we have contributed to. Yeah.

• 4:13Shaan Puri?

  Can you actually talk about that? Cause I, I'm at this point in life where I've always had in my head, oh yeah, I'd love to give. I'm a good person. I'm going to give. But then it was always when I was younger, it was like, well, I'll give later, right? Like not now, let me first, let me first get mine, then I'm going to, then I'm going to give. And I realized pretty, pretty recently, like, man, the getting mine never stops. As you probably just have to start giving, even maybe before it feels totally comfortable to do so. It get going back in 2002, when you said you did that, was it like, had you kind of like made it, made it? Or is there never have made it? You know, what's the right way to think about that?

• 4:45Speaker 00

  I think it has to start with a passion of what affected you in your life? Or, or how did you overcome something? Or what did you see a void of? In my case, my skate park was, the skate park that I grew up near was my foundation, was my salvation. Like that was the place where I felt like I belonged. It was obviously the place where I honed my skills, but more importantly, I found my crew there and, and skating wasn't cool in the, the early eighties. And, and we were a bunch of misfits, outcasts, like, you know, it was cliche, jocks putting you in trash cans and stuff like that. And like, it's all true. But we found our friends there and, and our support system.

• 5:25Speaker 00

  And it was just a safe place and, you know, not just for skating, but, but to hang out. And so when I found myself having this crazy success, I could see there was obviously a lack of skate parks because, because cities and even parents haven't, hadn't really accepted skateboarding as, as valid yet. And I just thought this is my, the best thing I can do is provide these facilities for kids who feel disenfranchised, for underserved areas. That was it. That was the idea. We had no idea we were doing. My brother, actually my brother and my sister and I just sort of started it on a whim and started figuring out projects that, that already had some legs

• 6:10Speaker 00

  or were, there were seeds planted for a skate park and they were up against a lot of opposition from the city or from the community. And we could give them at the very least, an endorsement and a, a validation. So the early grants were $10,000, $5,000. But that was enough to give them some sort of incentive and, and acknowledgement. And, and usually that pushed it over, at least pushed it through to an approval process. And we learned as we, as we, as we went along and, and we ended up getting more

• 6:52Speaker 00

  big donations from corporations and, and any, any contracts that I entered into in terms of endorsements at the time. I made sure that 10 to 20% went straight to the foundation or that they were able to give even more. I mean, now I, you, I'm sure you guys know, skate parks everywhere. You're, you're living near one. It's wild. Like 20 years ago, New York City skate park, what?

• 7:15Sam Parr?

  Yeah, now there's a bunch of them and skateboarding is very cyclical. I don't know where we are in the cycle right now, but it doesn't feel like it's down. That's for sure.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  Well, I think that most of the skate parks 20, 30 years ago were temporary structures. We're now building them into communities, into the landscape, out of concrete. I feel like they're more here to stay than ever.

• 7:38Shaan Puri?

  In those early days, you're talking about like, you know, when you were a kid, go to a skate park, you found your crew. Was it obvious that you were good? I mean, you became the Michael Jordan of your sport. I just kind of want to know about that. Like, would anybody have known? Could anybody have seen that when they saw you at those early days?

• 7:52Speaker 00

  Probably not in the first couple of years. Um, I was pretty bad. I was, I was just kind of flailing. I didn't understand what style was or how to create it in my skating. All I cared about was tricks. And so whatever it takes to do tricks. The body mechanics of that aren't pretty. You know what I mean? How, how do you spin your board around? How do you turn this way? How do you go that way? And it was all just like, that's all I cared about. Cause it was just like, that was fascinating to me that there were things that hadn't been done yet that were possible and that I could do them at an early age. It wasn't until probably my third, real third year of skating that I started to get some recognition.

• 8:36Speaker 00

  I started to, you know, everything then was competition based. So you're.

• 8:42Speaker 00

  Value, your ranking, that was the only way people were gonna notice you. And I started moving up the ranks. In fact, when I finally got sponsored by the Bones Brigade, I was an amateur. I, I won the amateur series that year. And I owe a lot to Stacy Peralta because he recognized something in me that maybe I didn't even see. He saw me doing some innovative tricks. They weren't big, but they were interesting to him. But I guess what he saw in me was that I was always frustrated. And he saw that I was determined and that I had the tenacity to, to keep at something until I get it. And, and against, you know, even against my own safety.

• 9:26Sam Parr?

  We, we talk a bunch, Charlie Munger, one of the best investors. He like has this line where he's like, take something serious that most people don't. And that's like a really good way to get outsized returns. And it definitely, I mean, that's obvious. That's what you did. Skateboarding was not popular at all, and it seems like you took it serious. But did you have any mental attributes that you think stood out amongst the other good guys at the time?

• 9:50Shaan Puri?

  Hey, I want to tell you about something pretty cool. We have a database of all of the business ideas that have been discussed on this podcast. So hundreds of episodes, the team at HubSpot went through, they pulled out all the simple, relatable, interesting, profitable ideas that we have brainstormed and they're all available for download for free. Just click the link in the description below. Thank you to our friends at HubSpot for sponsoring this podcast and putting together this free resource for you guys. Back to the show.

• 10:16Speaker 00

  I think I was just relentlessly determined. I just never gave up. And, you know, through repetition, through failure, I, I had to figure these things out. And, and I didn't know that was such an attribute at the time. It just felt like more of a, an obsession. And even, even just, just doing things I wanted to do when I was a kid, like my mom would say, or her friends would say, like, your kid's a nightmare. He doesn't, he won't give up. And she's like, well, he's just very determined. And so she saw it as a positive. That is what kept me afloat or at least motivated even through success. Cause there's a mindset, especially in skateboarding where you want to make it, right?

• 10:58Speaker 00

  You want to, you want to get on the cover of Thrasher or you want to, you want to have a good video part, or you want to win a contest. And if you get to that goal, you might lose your incentives. I didn't care so much about those accolades. I cared about learning new tricks. So the day after a contest, like a big one, maybe even if I had won, I'm back on the ramp trying some new trick. Like I'm on to the next one.

• 11:24Sam Parr?

  Sean, there's this word that skaters use a lot. People use the word progression, like you really progressed.

• 11:30Shaan Puri?

  I thought you were gonna say like a skater slang.

• 11:32Sam Parr?

  No, they just like.

• 11:34Shaan Puri?

  There's a skater phrase we use, progression.

• 11:37Speaker 00

  I got, I got much stranger ones, but go ahead.

• 11:39Sam Parr?

  But you would think of like a, kind of like a punk rock kid being like, progression, man. That's right. You just, you've progressed. And the idea, skating's interesting because like, let's say you ollie down a two stair. It's like, you very easily can be like, all right, I could do two. Let's see if I can do three. Okay, I can do three. Let's say I could do four. And like there's, in skating, there's very much this like incremental progress. That's very measurable and, and it's really exciting. And so like, when I was skating as a kid, that's one thing I remember was like progression. And I remember what's, I wasn't great. I was fine, but I remember what separated me from someone who's amazing. And then there's a whole other category, which is you, Tony, of like these people who are never satisfied with where they progressed to. It was always like, now what? Now what? Now what? And it kept going.

• 12:22Speaker 00

  And those are the ones, I mean, those are the ones that, that have the longevity. And those are the ones that, that kids look to you because they're not just basking in their glory.

• 12:32Shaan Puri?

  Right. You know, we, we often will talk about the, the upside of greatness, the, the outcome of greatness, what it's like to, to do all the great things. But very rarely do you get to understand the price of greatness. So I want to ask you about the price of greatness. You know, there's a guy who I went to, he went to the same high schools I did. He made it to the NBA for one year. You don't even know his name. Joe Alexander, probably never heard of this guy, you know, had just a little vacation in the league. But he was, he goes on TikTok and he says, here's what my life looked like from the age of nine. And he said, every day, this was my schedule. This is what I did. This was my, these were my rules I had for myself. And he's like, this is what it took. Plus I had a growth spurt and got to six eight. So plus the natural gifts, here's all the work that it took to get to the level I got to.

• 13:17Shaan Puri?

  I just want people to understand that. I really love these videos because for, for those who enjoy the work, it's like, oh, here's a blueprint I can follow. Here's a frame breaker. Maybe that, maybe I'm capable of doing more. And for others who don't want to do the work, it's like, don't even, don't dream about that stuff. Cause this is what it takes. If I asked you, what, what's your version of that? What was the price of greatness when you were sort of eight, nine, 10, 11, 12 years old? What did your life look like?

• 13:40Speaker 00

  As soon as the bell rang, I figured out a way to get to the skate park.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  That was it. I was at the skate park until, until either my mom got off work, which was usually late. Cause she, she worked at a night school, college, community college, or until they closed. And I was able to get a ride home from someone that was 16. That was it. I was there all, all day. And, and I mean, a lot of times I would forget to eat. I wasn't trying to be skinny, but it was like skate, eating was just a distraction. That was, that was time away from the pool.

• 14:15Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 14:15Speaker 00

  I think the difference is, is when you're working towards something like NBA, you know that there's this, there's this goal and there is professional, there's, there's income, there's fans, whatever it is. To reach the top of skateboarding at the time I did it, it meant that you got your picture in a magazine.

• 14:37Speaker 00

  That was it. I mean, you truly like first place for a competition was a hundred dollars. And I wasn't pro, so like, I, I'm just trying to get free gear. That's the goal.

• 14:48Sam Parr?

  When you're, I know, I mean, you, you, you were making some money when you were 16, 17, 18. I want to ask about that.

• 14:53Speaker 00

  Sure. I mean, that, that did eventually come and, and I got to ride the wave of skateboarding's growth and popularity, which was incredible and was, you know, something that I never dreamed of. Because that's, I guess that's the, that's the point is you, when you were a kid in those days, skateboarding, you couldn't dream of being rich or famous because no one was.

• 15:15Sam Parr?

  So what did you think you'd be doing at like age 40? Were you like, I gotta just have fun now and maybe I'll teach.

• 15:21Shaan Puri?

  Or you didn't even think about it.

• 15:22Speaker 00

  Oh, I, yeah, I mean, my ultimate, I, I guess what I saw for myself, I was, I was always really good at mathematics. I thought I'd be a math teacher because I always helped my friends with homework. That was it. Like I, I wasn't aspiring to, you know, some professional level. It was just more like, oh, I'm good at this and that will probably be my career trajectory. And then once I was 16, money started to come in through royalties. And suddenly realized that I was, I was making more than my math teacher. At age 17.

• 15:58Sam Parr?

  I've noticed this trend and this is actually something that I, has always surprised me. We had this guy named David Rubenstein on the other day. He's like a billionaire guy who started a really successful company. And then we've had a bunch of like really incredibly successful people on. And I've asked this question many times, like, where did you think it was gonna go? And almost all time, every time the answer has been like magnitude smaller than where they ended up. I think there's this like famous scene with Jeff Bezos. And he was pitching his first investor when he was starting Amazon. And he was like, you know, guy, if we really nail it, I think this company can make a hundred million dollars a year. I really think it can do it. Or if you look at like Uber's early pitch deck, it's like, if this goes well, and like the number was like 30 or 40 or $50 million a year or something like that.

• 16:43Sam Parr?

  And it's so interesting to see that like, when you have these huge outsized great results, very rarely is the person who's doing it prediction even remotely in that stratosphere.

• 16:55Speaker 00

  Oh, no, I, please, I mean, my first year as a professional skateboarder, I had $640 in the bank from my contest earnings. And I went out and bought myself a Honda scooter so that I could get to the skate park by myself and not have to rely on my parents for rides because their hours were not in tune with how much I wanted to skate.

• 17:17Shaan Puri?

  During that grind period, I've, I've heard, I've read, read somewhere like you had like a sort of $5 a day budget, like for food.

• 17:23Speaker 00

  Well, that came later. So I, I went through this, this first wave of success, which was, I, I like to credit to Back to the Future. Like when Back to the Future came out in 85, kids wanted skateboards. I mean, Marty McFly invented the skateboard and, and a lot of kids, that was their first glimpse of what's possible. So there was this sort of wave of popularity that happened like 86 to 90 ish. And I was by then a young adult. I suddenly owned two houses. I had motor ramp set up and then things dropped off very quickly in 91. And my income was dropping by half every month.

• 18:02Sam Parr?

  And what were you like 19?

• 18:03Speaker 00

  In 90, I was, I was 22 by then.

• 18:07Sam Parr?

  What were you making leading up to that? And then what did, what did it have to?

• 18:11Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. Um, I would say probably in, in my best year was in the hundred thousands ish, you know, in the late eight, mid eighties, late eighties. That was, that was like lawyer salaries sort of thing. Um, and I had no vision of saving for the future. So I was like taking all my friends on vacation and buying the newest car. And then flipping that one and buying another one and not flipping it. I mean, paying depreciation and then, and then buying another one and, and, you know, going on shopping sprees at Sharper Image. And, you know, I had the invincibility of youth on my side. And then all of a sudden it went down. I mean, I guess if I had to give you an example, I was making about.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  $1,500 a month from my shoe sponsor, Airwalk. They, they would call me every month or so and say, oh, you know, we really gotta cut you down a little bit. So then that went to a thousand and then two months later that went to 500. And eventually ended up at 300 within the same year time span.

• 19:20Shaan Puri?

  And as that's happening, what are you?

• 19:22Speaker 00

  As that's happening, I'm, I'm struggling to pay my mortgage. Um, I'm taking every odd job I can. And by that, I mean, well, okay, so this is, this is 1990, I'm 22. I am officially too old to be a featured skateboarder, like in commercials. Because they thought it was just a kid thing. But I would, but because they knew my name, I would get hired as a Hollywood consultant. So I would, I mean, I remember this one shoot vividly. I, I, they asked me to build a, build a launch ramp. So that the skater could go through the frame of this thing they wanted. And then they were gonna like drop glitter or something down as he did it.

• 20:07Speaker 00

  And so they gave me $500 for two days of work. Um, and they gave me a hundred dollars to build a launch ramp. I built a launch ramp in my driveway. I borrowed someone's truck, drove it to Hollywood, set it up in this park, set it up exactly where they wanted. And then they said, okay, can you jump through the frame a couple of times so we can see what it looks like? Okay. So I do the trick that eventually this younger kid's gonna do. And he does it and I drive the ramp, ramp home and paid my mortgage that month.

• 20:45Shaan Puri?

  Hey, let's take a quick break. You know that feeling when strategy is done, the brief is written, everyone's aligned and you realize someone still has to sit down and actually create all the content? That someone is usually you and it's due tomorrow. Well, the Breeze assistant from HubSpot can help. It works right inside HubSpot. You can draft a campaign copy, blog posts, emails, all in your brand voice, all using your actual customer data. So you don't create just content, you create content that converts. Check out hubspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.

• 21:13Sam Parr?

  There's this crazy story where you bought a house when you were 17 and you're like, that was insane. Cause you were a senior in high school and had a house. But what's crazier is that your father supported it. I think you said it was maybe even his idea or he was like.

• 21:25Speaker 00

  It was his idea. And then, no, it was his idea. And what, because he saw that I was careless with my income. I wasn't saving for taxes either.

• 21:33Sam Parr?

  Well, and that's what I wanted to ask about your dad. Because like Sean and I are young parents and like, I think your dad was like, he founded like the National Skateboard Association. He encouraged you to get a house, like he, that's not like the most supportive dad ever. What, have you learned anything about parenting from him on like, how to like encourage your kids to do what they love?

• 21:52Speaker 00

  Oh, of course. I mean, well, he was, he was the shining example of, of supporting your kids, even though they're doing something that isn't necessarily going to be a career, but to support them in their passions. My older sister was a singer in high school and he would, he would carry it like he was their roadie. You know, he was, he was a Navy pilot from World War II, a child of the depression. Um, had a really rough childhood of him on his own. So he went all in when he had kids and he was obviously very frugal with his money. I mean, my mom had to raise four kids on a, on a Navy salary.

• 22:34Speaker 00

  Um, while he was away, but yeah, I learned, I learned that, you know, you just jump in and, and, and try to connect. I mean, you know, my kids, they, they all skate, but they're all into different stuff. And, and like my, my daughter is in the theater and I would take her to New York and go to all the shows with her. I, I don't want to go to Broadway shows, you know what I mean? Like, or that wasn't, that wasn't something that was like my first choice going to New York, but, but I want to experience it with her and I want to understand it. And now she's at USC studying theater. So it's, it's that kind of thing. And, and I definitely learned it by example from my father.

• 23:11Speaker 00

  When I was 17, there was a new development of homes going up of duplexes near where my parents lived. And my dad said, I think that it would be a good idea to, to try to get one of these homes. And I can cosign for you because you're not 18. And I mean, all I heard was you're gonna get your own place. You know, it'd be like, it wasn't about, it wasn't about the financial future. It was more like, oh my God, I have a place to party. And, you know, you're a senior in high school with your own place, you're the popular one now.

• 23:45Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, nobody's putting you in trash can and then, um, so, so you, um, when you were in this kind of the, the, the downslide of it though, you're, you said you're 22, you're doing these kind of odd jobs just to pay the mortgage. I mean, did you consider quitting at this point? Are you just like, I don't know, I'm, what was your mindset then? And what'd you tell yourself to get kind of through that period?

• 24:06Speaker 00

  I, well, I never considered quitting skating because I never started skating for money. So even if I had to find a quote, real job at the time, I was gonna find time to skate. That, that was just, you know, that, that was ingrained in me. That was, that was, that was my zen, that was my, my escape. So, um, what I told myself was you better start learning other skills. And I did, I, I learned how to edit video. I actually had a kind of primitive video editing system, but I could do video effects and stuff. So I took some odd jobs doing that as well. I actually ironically edited a commercial for NEC Turbo Graphics, which was a video game system at the time.

• 24:50Speaker 00

  Because my friend worked for them and said, hey, Tony could do this for a 10th of the cost that you're gonna pay. And I, and I did it. And so it was just stuff like that, like I just was trying to hustle and, and make ends meet. And I mean, I, I, by then I had a child I knew I had to provide for. So it just forced me into gear. Um, but all along I kept skating.

• 25:12Sam Parr?

  Have you ever, and I know I'm harping on this, but there's, there's you and then there's this guy named Rodney Mullen. Sean, have you heard that name Rodney Mullen?

• 25:20Speaker 00

  No.

• 25:20Sam Parr?

  He's another, he, there's him and Tony are on the Mount Rushmore with two other guys, but it's definitely him and Tony on the Mount Rushmore of skating. He's like Tony, but was for flat ground. So he, I think maybe the kickflip he invented, but he invented so many more things. And there's this like talk where he gives and you could see, it's, I think it's on Ted. And you could see how obsessed he is where he talks about being, I think he was raised in the Midwest somewhere with all flat ground.

• 25:46Speaker 00

  Uh, Florida.

• 25:47Sam Parr?

  Florida, sorry.

• 25:48Speaker 00

  He, he grew up on a farm in Florida.

• 25:50Sam Parr?

  And he's like obsessed.

• 25:52Speaker 00

  I know what it's like.

• 25:53Sam Parr?

  Yeah. And that's what I was gonna, like you guys are very similar and I'm always fascinated by this obsession. And this like, because you see it in everyone who's great. You have to have a combination of talent, luck and this like obsession. Have you ever like analyzed that personality type about what makes you or someone like Rodney tick and how it's different from the average person?

• 26:14Speaker 00

  I, I haven't, other people have tried. I, I recognize it. Like I've, I've seen it in younger skaters where I know that, oh, they're, they're going to, they're going to make it.

• 26:25Shaan Puri?

  But what are the tells? Cause you're not there with them every day. So how, how do you pick up on that?

• 26:29Speaker 00

  There's a, they can't quench their desire and they do some of the craziest stuff. They do some of the hardest things and they just have this look of intensity, not joy. It doesn't look joyous, that's what it is. You know, Rodney, like he, he created the flat ground ollie. He created the kickflip, the 360 flip, the, the impossible. And he did it and he was on to the next one.

• 26:58Sam Parr?

  It's so funny, you're talking about that not feeling joy. Cause you, you're like a, a very happy, nice guy. But then in 99, I think when you did the 900, one of my favorite like clips is not actually the 900. But you see, I'm always fascinated by this like lock in moment. You see you on top of the ramp and you look like a different person. You do not seem joyful. You are just totally in the zone. And I was always curious, what allows you or what do you feel like when you truly lock in and you have to perform? I think it was on live TV. I, I remember watching it, but I don't remember if it was live or not, but you have all these people there. Like, I'm always curious what you tell yourself before you have to do something great with all this pressure on in order to lock in.

• 27:43Sam Parr?

  Because it seems like you changed to a different person.

• 27:46Speaker 00

  I think, what, what do I tell myself? I tell myself, this is the one every time. And I am way past testing this. And if I feel like, I mean, there's so many elements, especially to that trick. There's so many elements, it's just like, you gotta have the right amount of speed. You gotta have the right snap, you gotta have the right trajectory. You need enough height to be able to see your landing zone. But at some point, you take all those things for granted and you know, you were going to commit to it. Even if one of those things isn't right, which I did, obviously in that moment, several times or a dozen times, even if you look at it.

• 28:29Sam Parr?

  Are you fearful?

• 28:29Speaker 00

  You don't see failure, that's what it is. I, I do not see, when I, when I'm doing that, I don't, I don't consider consequence. I don't consider that I might be too tired and give up. I don't consider that I might seriously injure myself. Cause once those thoughts enter your head, they can spiral out. Or that, that is the, that will be the, the actual outcome of this. I knew in that moment that you're either, I'm either gonna make this trick or you're gonna carry me unconscious out of this arena.

• 29:04Shaan Puri?

  What were the odds of success of that trick?

• 29:06Speaker 00

  I, well, for me, the odds, up to that point in my life, the odds were a hundred percent that I'm gonna get hurt. If I try to make this, because every other time that I tried to make it, I got hurt.

• 29:17Shaan Puri?

  So you had, you had never done it before that moment?

• 29:20Speaker 00

  No.

• 29:21Shaan Puri?

  In practice, nothing, never?

• 29:23Speaker 00

  No, no, no one had, no one had made it, uh, completely and, and ridden away. But I knew, I mean, the last time that I, I fully committed to it was a few years before that and I broke my rib. On a ramp in a warehouse.

• 29:38Speaker 00

  At around 2:00 PM on a weekday and I had to go pick up my oldest son, what he was, he was little then at preschool, barely able to breathe because I had broken my rib and I, and like he's, he's waiting for me. So I had to go get him. Like that, that was the sort of state of things in 1994 and then fast forward and no one's watching. Like I just did it because I wanted to make it. Um, and then fast forward five years and it's on this huge stage on live ESPN. Like it just made no sense, but I blocked all that out because it was like, I'm finally at the threshold of doing this thing that has plagued me for 10 years and I have the support of my peers, which I mean, I think, I think what people saw in that moment

• 30:22Speaker 00

  that, that is much bigger than what I did is they saw that there's this, this pursuit, the sport that yes, it's competitive, but it's, there's so much camaraderie in it and the progression of it is dependent on a collective effort. And so what they saw was like, whoa, this, that seems cool. I, I feel like a lot of kids saw that like this seems cool. Like you skate with your friends, you compete against them, but they cheer you on. And you can do stuff that no one's ever done. I don't know. I, you know, I, I hope that that was the, the bigger takeaway from that moment.

• 30:59Shaan Puri?

  Well, this is crazy to me. So I, okay. So I'm not, obviously I'm not like Sam. I'm not a skater. I didn't, yeah. But I paid attention to this just because everybody did at that moment. It was cool. I had always assumed, just because I was like, didn't really look that much into it, to be honest, but I just always assumed that I knew nobody had ever done it kind of like in competition or visibly. I didn't know you had never done it in practice, not even like that.

• 31:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:23Shaan Puri?

  Even closer. The, the gap between like kind of the expected objective result, which would have been you break your rib or worse. Um, and then like the glory of, of actually pulling it off in this moment, that doesn't even make sense to me. That blows my mind that you even tried it. Like what was the, what was the thought process?

• 31:41Speaker 00

  Oh, the reason I tried it, I, I'll tell you the reason I tried it is because it was a best trick event. We had 20 minutes. My best trick at the time was a very old 720, which means that your body does a, a double spin 720 and your board does a 900. That's what, that's what the very all means. I had made that once in my life. And so I, I was like, that's my best trick, right? I did it. I did it halfway into the event. I didn't expect to be able to make it even possibly. So the fact that I did it, I didn't really have anywhere to go. Um, and if I remember correctly, the, the, the onsite announcer,

• 32:24Speaker 00

  not the, not the on air announcer, but the onsite announcer, Dave Duncan, who has been announcing skate competitions since the eighties. He, he called me out and he's like, let's see one of those 900 attempts, Tony. And I was like, dude, like

• 32:40Shaan Puri?

  Like what the hell, man?

• 32:42Speaker 00

  You know, I became do it. You know, I've never haven't done it. But I thought, yeah, why not? That's, that is the next stage of what I want to do. And I tried, my first couple were just for the crowd. It was just more like, look, here's, this is what it looks like to spin 12, two and a half times around. Cause I, I can, I can bail out of them safely. It's when I really start to commit to them is when they start getting dangerous. And I would say within my

• 33:10Speaker 00

  probably like fifth attempt, something clicked that every attempt was, was consistent. Usually we're skating on these rickety ramps. They're, you know, one wall is kind of vert, one wall's over vert. They're not that wide. Like, you know, this was state of the art half pipe that we had never really been able to ride, um, in those years. And I felt like, wow, my speed is, is consistent. My spin is consistent. Like before I, I would get maybe one good try out of five. And I had to commit to that one good try. And now all the tries were good. So I guess I can commit again. You know, somewhere around the sixth attempt, I, I thought,

• 33:56Speaker 00

  all right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna commit to these landings and see how it goes. Right? You know, I knew that the time was up. I thought we were off air because they said, you have 20 minutes. So I figured, okay, that's the live feed, right? But that wasn't, that wasn't the incentive for this. The incentive for this was to finally get past this, this milestone or this hurdle that had plagued me for so long. So when I finally made it, you know, I knew that it wasn't part of the competition. I didn't think it was on air to live TV. It was just finally this relief. That's what you saw. It was just like, oh, and, and my first thought was I never have to do this again.

• 34:35Shaan Puri?

  I'm free. I'm free from this burden.

• 34:37Speaker 00

  Free of this. Little did I know, watch what you wish for, because little I know, everywhere I went.

• 34:42Shaan Puri?

  Now that's all they want.

• 34:43Speaker 00

  The following years, people were like, do a 900.

• 34:48Shaan Puri?

  Wait, so were you able to just do 900s from then on? Like you, you now like?

• 34:51Speaker 00

  Do them occasionally, but they always took several tries and they didn't always work out. Sometimes I would just get exhausted and it didn't work or the ramp is too slippery or whatever.

• 35:02Shaan Puri?

  Dude, Sean, you should see it now. Now there's kids that would do like back to back, like is it, what's after 900, 10, 10, 20?

• 35:09Speaker 00

  They, they, they do 900. They do back to back 900s.

• 35:12Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 35:13Speaker 00

  Um, one kid did a kickflip body varial 900. You know, so he's got a kickflip in the middle of the 900.

• 35:19Shaan Puri?

  This like a Roger Bannister? Now they know it's possible or like is the gear better?

• 35:23Speaker 00

  I mean, that's what it was always and, but that is the, the through line of skateboarding. We, we keep building upon what we saw, um, which is exactly what I did. But the era that I grew up in, a 360 was the most you could spin. And then Mike McGill did the 540 and then I did a 720. And then 14 years passed in between that and a 900.

• 35:48Shaan Puri?

  So I discovered you through your video game. I used to play it every day after school, all the dream cast. I loved that thing. The game was incredible. Can you tell the story about the video game? And I understand it. There was like a, you know, because it's a business podcast, there was like a moment where they tried to buy you out or like buy your royalties out. Can you just tell the video game story of the Tony Hawk's first video game?

• 36:07Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, you're talking about my first million. That, that's, that's where it came from. Without question. The, well, the story of the game, it started actually more around 1997. I got a call from a, a video game designer. I, I would say more like a coder who was, said, I want to, you know, I worked on this engine for skateboarding. I want to see if you would go pitch it with me as a game to publishers and console, console manufacturers. And I was all in. I mean, I, I loved, you know, I was, I was an arcade kid.

• 36:46Speaker 00

  There was an arcade at the skate park and the last game that had been released up to that moment was skate or die for Commodore 64. So we're, we're years past that. We were coming into home consoles more now. And, and the, what he had, it was on a laptop. It was, it was keyboard controls. It was like this skater just kind of carving in around bowls. It was, it wasn't great, but it was, it was something and, and the graphics looked better than anything that had been previously released. So I went with him to meetings. We met Nintendo. We met a few software publishers and just no takers. I mean, it was almost embarrassing.

• 37:30Speaker 00

  The conversations that we were having with these people, because it was like, I remember one, one guy said, skateboarding isn't even popular. Why would a skateboarding video game be popular?

• 37:42Shaan Puri?

  Was this before the 900?

• 37:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. This is like, this is like 97 ish. And I didn't have a good answer to that. And, and this guy that I was working with got really frustrated and he just said, look, I gotta, I gotta find a job. Like I said, I don't think this is it. I don't think this is what's happening. And I, I kind of agreed with him. Like, I don't really want to go to these pitch meetings either because they're just kind of degrading. And he said, I remember, but I do remember one, the last thing he said to me, he said, I feel like your name is now planted in the video game world as someone who would like to work on a game or do a game. And, and if someone does one, they'll probably call you. And I was like, sure. And about a year later, I got a call from Activision and they said, we heard you're working on a game. And I was like,

• 38:30Speaker 00

  I'm not, but I want to. And they said, well, we are, we are working on a game that is skateboarding and we would like you to come see it and see if you want to be involved. And I went up to Activision. They had just released, what was it called? Apocalypse with Bruce Willis. Like literally featuring the, the likeness and voice of Bruce Willis, which was kind of a, that was a new thing.

• 38:56Shaan Puri?

  Were they big at the time?

• 38:59Speaker 00

  The game?

• 38:59Sam Parr?

  No, the company Activision.

• 39:01Speaker 00

  No.

• 39:02Shaan Puri?

  Now, now they're huge.

• 39:03Speaker 00

  I mean, their, their biggest hit before that was Pitfall.

• 39:06Sam Parr?

  Okay. But was it like dozens or hundreds of employees?

• 39:09Speaker 00

  More like dozens.

• 39:10Sam Parr?

  Wow.

• 39:11Speaker 00

  Um, they had just been taken over. Bobby Kotick actually just, just took over the company. And I think bought it for much less than they ever expected. And they were just trying to make something new happen. Um, and like I said, I mean, you're talking about Pitfall. That was like, that was mid eighties. The good thing about that was that they were open to kind of anything. They didn't have this cookie cutter

• 39:38Speaker 00

  approach that this is how we make popular games. They have to be first person shooters. They have to, you know, they didn't have the Call of Duty mindset. Um, so they were willing to let us kind of go crazy with a skate game. So I went up there and the very, they handed me a controller and a modified PlayStation. And the first version of what became THPS that I got to play was Bruce Willis on a skateboard with a gun strapped to his back.

• 40:06Speaker 00

  Doing ollies and kickflips across the desert. And it was amazing. I mean, it was, it was like, as soon as I did, I was intuitive. The controls were intuitive. I was, like I said, I was doing, I was doing method errors.

• 40:19Shaan Puri?

  No, you weren't. Bruce Willis was doing.

• 40:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, method, yeah, he was. And I thought this is, this could be the coolest thing ever, um, for skateboarders. And like everyone told me at the time, skateboarding was not popular. But I set out to make a skateboarding game that hardcore skaters themselves would appreciate. That was, that was my goal.

• 40:42Sam Parr?

  It was awesome. Like, I don't know if you know this, Sean, but all, all the levels, they were, those are real, like skate spots. Like when I moved to San Francisco, I was like, I saw Third and Army on Tony Hawk's Pro Skater. I gotta go skate it. Or like, that's how I got introduced to like Goldfinger and like a lot of these bands. That was awesome. And then like, you know, Alyssa Steamer, Andrew Reynolds, Jeff Rowley, like all these skaters that were on there, they were like, my guys now. It, it, it created a whole thing. It was pretty wild, um, because it was like authentic to like the skater nerds could talk about it, but then like anyone was into it. It was, it was, it was pretty crazy.

• 41:15Shaan Puri?

  You found that sweet spot where the hardcore, you know, enthusiasts, you know, respects it, but it's broad enough where a guy like me who's never skateboarded, didn't know these are all after real parks. I just could use it and have fun, right? It's like a Pixar movie where it has two, two different people can watch it and get, and both enjoy it, but at two totally different levels.

• 41:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, and I didn't really expect it to resonate with non-skaters. I knew it was a fun game because I had played video games my whole life. But I also knew that it was niche and skateboarding was still kind of more alternative and, and whatever you want to say. But I will say that I got lucky in, I mean, I got lucky in all kinds of ways, but, but one way was I had just done a couple of big marketing campaigns, promotions for brands that, that I believe in, but, but their campaign was cheesy in terms of how represented skateboarding. Because they wanted, you know, it was, it was Madison Avenue and they, they had their take on what skateboarding was.

• 42:16Speaker 00

  And I just went along because I'm finally getting paid, you know, to, to, to do something with skateboarding. And I, but I didn't feel like it, it had skateboarders integrity in mind. Or they didn't really care about it. And so I told myself, if I get any more big deals from big companies, I'm going to, I'm going to demand that I have final approval over what goes out. That was a daring move at that time. Because skateboarding was still, you know, it was X Games, but everyone else knew better of how to do commercials and campaigns and stuff.

• 42:57Speaker 00

  And so the very first contract I signed with that approval demand was Activision. And like I said, they were kind of throwing everything against the wall. So they said, okay, we'll, we'll, we'll trust them. And then as the game started to get developed, as it started, there was kind of a buzz in the air about it. I actually, I mean, it's been a long time, so I'm not going to get in trouble anymore, but I burned copies of it from my friends while we were developing it. So like a few of my friends have beta versions of THPS. And I actually modified their PlayStation so they could play it. Because I wanted to be honest feedback from real skaters. This is before we actually chose the characters.

• 43:40Speaker 00

  And they would let other people play it and prominent skaters. And at some point there was a buzz in the skate industry about the game. They just called it the game. And I knew that we were on to something if hardcore skaters are excited to go buy a, a console to play this game. Um, and then as, as Activision started to, as we were getting close to the release date, they started sending it to,

• 44:09Speaker 00

  game review magazines, you know, media outlets, whoever would, would pay attention. And started getting insane feedback. I mean, they were getting reviews of like nine, nine point O, nine, you know, perfect 10, whatever. And right before the release, they called me and said, we want to offer you a buyout of future royalties. Um, I said, what does that mean? They said, we want to offer you half a million dollars and then you won't get royalties going forward. At that time in my life, someone saying a half a million dollars sounded like a half a gazillion dollars.

• 44:49Speaker 00

  Like I had never heard anyone speak those words unless they're talking about some fantastical person that we will never meet. But I had just bought a new house. I had got a, I got a mortgage that I could finally afford. I had some decent prospects with sponsorships, with competition. I was still competing. And I thought, now I'm going to let her ride. Like, why not? And that's how I made my first million.

• 45:21Sam Parr?

  Do you remember, or can you recall the day after the first game or a few games in or a few years in where you started making money where you're like, oh, wow, life is different now because of this game?

• 45:33Speaker 00

  Sure. Yeah. Uh, I would say definitely after the second release where things exploded with interest. And also just in terms, because, because of that, people knew my name more in the general public. And then suddenly I was getting offers to do bigger campaigns. I mean, I was getting invited to red carpet premieres, you know, just random stuff that made no sense to me. It was exciting, but it was also just kind of like, this is a weird level of fame that I never expected or even wanted. But I will tell you that when, when the fourth game was released, if I have this right,

• 46:15Speaker 00

  I had lunch with, with my connection at, at Activision. I actually went up to LA. It's like, I really want to talk to you about, about the game and the future of it. And fourth game just got released. It got to be in the top 10 of sales right away. And he said, the first three are still in the top 10.

• 46:33Speaker 00

  So at that time, four out of the top 10 games were THPS. And I said, what does that even mean? And he's like, this is what it means. And he slid a check across the table for 4.5 million dollars.

• 46:47Sam Parr?

  Was that life changing?

• 46:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:50Shaan Puri?

  Was it the same feeling as the 900, just relief? Or this time you had some joy?

• 46:55Speaker 00

  I mean, it's joyous. It's, you know, I, I never did it for that though. So it wasn't like, okay, that's it. I'm finally, I finally made it. It was nice to know that my family would not have to struggle.

• 47:07Shaan Puri?

  Today's podcast is brought to you by my friends at Mercury. Uh, they make the world's best banking product. I think you know this already. I use Mercury for all of my businesses. I think I have like maybe seven or eight businesses. We use Mercury as our business banking across all of them. And now they actually just launched a personal banking account. So I have my personal account there. I moved off of Wells Fargo and Chase. I'm just all in on Mercury. Why? Uh, I like products that are easy to use. I like products that get me and the problems that I have. So like very easy to make a joint account with my wife. Very easy to spin up virtual cards. Uh, one click and I get savings yield. It just has all the stuff that I need in one place. So if you're looking for the best banking product on the market, it's definitely Mercury. I will fistfight anybody who disagrees with me on that. Go to mercury.com slash personal and learn more. Mercury is a fintech, not an FDIC insured bank.

• 47:52Shaan Puri?

  Banking services are provided through Choice Financial Group and Callum N A, members FDIC. Not many people were doing the type of thing you did. Like you were actually in a way, one of the first kind of influencers to have a product or a brand, right? Now, like, you know, today that's very, very common, but actually you're, you're one of the kind of early success stories.

• 48:07Speaker 00

  No, that was, that was super strange. I mean, people would talk about Tony Hawk and they're not talking about me. But even the game designers and, and the people who worked at Activision would be like, oh, well for the next Tony Hawk. And I'm like, hi.

• 48:22Sam Parr?

  Well, it's a very, it's a, it's a very strange thing because there's like Wayne Gretzky, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong, Tony Hawk, like that's a very, and then maybe like Kelly Slater for surfing, but it's a very strange thing. I'd have to imagine.

• 48:35Shaan Puri?

  Do you guys hang out once a year? You guys get together, face of the sports dinner that we do?

• 48:40Sam Parr?

  Like you put your hands in the middle, like your rings touch?

• 48:43Speaker 00

  Wow, yeah, that's some Illuminati. No, um, but my name was associated with games. Like Jordan is, you probably associate with shoes, right? But it was wild and, and I think at some point I embraced that more. I was trying to, you know, make it more like, that's not me, that's not what the, but, but I, I'm proud of the, the series and I'm proud of what I brought to it. And I'm proud of how it affected kids at a formative age. Like, like you said, people discovered a certain type of music. They discovered a love for skateboarding. I think also a fan base discovered an appreciation for skateboarding that maybe they never had. And that was the, that was the tipping point for, for skateboarding because before that,

• 49:25Speaker 00

  the only people that skated were, that loved skating were skaters, right? You could not explain the nuances of a kickflip to a non-skater before 1998. They didn't care. Like, what, why are you still playing with that toy? And after that, it was like, people tuned in and they appreciated that, like there, there became a reverence for Rodney Mullen, finally. You know, he was like the oddball freestyle kid. And all of a sudden it was like, nope, he created this, these tricks and this language.

• 49:58Shaan Puri?

  Well, I think one of the things that, for me at least, you know, I don't think I ever cared about the skating, but there was always something that, that, you know, I think the great athletes and the great performers transcend the sport. So to me, what you did was not about skating, but it was about the idea of going for it. Like you just, wow, like that, that guy really cares. He's really going for it. He's putting, he's taking risk, you know, his courage. It's cool. There's like bigger ideas that you can attach to that you can use in other, other ways. And I'll give you an example. I think recently you talked about how, you know, you were skating, you broke your femur and you had this great tweet about like, coming back and just trying to do a kickflip again. And then I think the way you said it was like, it was so satisfying when you finally were able to do it. Coming back from the injury, you're older now and like,

• 50:43Shaan Puri?

  this is a trick that you could have done in your sleep before, but now it's hard. And it was so satisfying to pull it off. And you're like, find your kickflip. And you know, I'm not skating, but I could take that and I can use, I could find that, right? Now that was inspiring.

• 50:56Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, I think it was more, I, uh, I had a bad recovery when I broke my leg. I, my bone actually moved out of place. It was, it had been set with a titanium rod and I just got back out there too soon. So I kind of sabotaged the healing. Eight months later, I had to have a reset again and redone again. So I never really even got to the kickflip stage in that first go around. And then when I got a reset and I started to do a proper recovery and wait enough time, when I did it, it was so hard. Like it was so, you know, scary, painful. It was ugly. Like it's not the kickflip you want to promote. It was just more like, I did

• 51:38Speaker 00

  a terrible sloppy one, but I did it. And I think that's what I was trying to convey is like, find your kickflip. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be the dream that you have set for yourself, but get to that stage. Cause then there's more to offer. There's more to get to after that.

• 51:57Sam Parr?

  Can you kind of give a, a rundown of what like the Tony Hawk empire is right now? We had, um, Rob on, Rob Dyrdek a while ago, and we've become buddies with him and you guys seem similar where you have like, it appears as though you have like a fantasy factory, like you have the warehouse with a ramp and you got a team there. What's the whole business now?

• 52:17Speaker 00

  Well, Birdhouse Skateboards is my first company that I started in 1992.

• 52:22Sam Parr?

  I've got a birdhouse board right now, by the way.

• 52:25Speaker 00

  Oh, thank you. You're keeping us alive. And then I do a lot of speaking engagements, kind of like Rodney. That's what Rodney's bread and butter is now.

• 52:32Sam Parr?

  Really?

• 52:33Speaker 00

  And so I'm doing a lot of those. I do, we do, we have a charity, the Skateboard Project. We have Hawk Shoes back, um, in the mix. We have Hawk Clothing as well. And we do a lot of, a lot of licensing. Um, we have our own video production company, 900 Films, who have done stuff with like Liquid Death, um, pretty much anything that you've seen of me out there, Q and all, Ridge Wall, and stuff like that. It's, it's done through 900 Films and, and also just skate content. And then I have my ramp. I mean, really that's the, the, that's the pinnacle of the office.

• 53:15Shaan Puri?

  When you say I have my ramp, what does that mean? That's like?

• 53:17Speaker 00

  I have, I have my own half fight. Yeah. I have my own half fight in the warehouse of the office. And that is like, that literally when I hang up with you guys, I'm going there to skate. I'm not going there for a meeting. I'm not going there for some sort of pitch or concept. It's, I'm going there because I want to skate.

• 53:33Sam Parr?

  But I think you've done some good angel investments too, right?

• 53:35Speaker 00

  Yeah. Um, I, I've definitely gotten lucky in that I get to, I, you know, I, I sort of know some of the, the main Silicon Valley players that I've met through the years and they've invited me to invest in some stuff that, that I was interested in and probably wouldn't have had a, a way in.

• 53:55Sam Parr?

  What are some big ones?

• 53:57Speaker 00

  Nest, Blue Bottle, um, well Liquid Death, but they're, you know, they're still trying to figure out what they're doing. Events.com, I think is about to go public. Um, and, and a bunch of others that I'm still holding on to.

• 54:10Sam Parr?

  I think DocuSign is one of them.

• 54:12Speaker 00

  DocuSign, yeah.

• 54:16Shaan Puri?

  That's amazing. Um, do you, you know, when you, when you kind of, uh, think about, cause it looks like you did a bunch of different business ventures. Some worked, some didn't. Normal as an entrepreneur.

• 54:25Speaker 00

  Sure. Yeah.

• 54:26Shaan Puri?

  If you think back now, like what, what was common about the ones that worked? And what was common about the ones that didn't? Do you, do you find a through line or kind of a signal there that you can now look out for more?

• 54:36Speaker 00

  Not always. No. I mean, I would say restaurants have been the riskiest, but also I can't stay away.

• 54:45Sam Parr?

  What did you do? Or what have you done?

• 54:46Speaker 00

  I invest, well, I invested in a few, um, some didn't work. What, one specifically, Counter Burger. I don't know if you guys have ever been there, but they, they started a few chain, they started a few in San Diego and I invested in two of them and that didn't work. Um, but currently Chicken Hawk is, is our Nashville hot chicken restaurant that's here in Encinitas that I'm super proud of. And it's, it's, you know, it, the menu speaks for itself. People love the vibe. It's the vibe is like nineties skate. We have a bunch of videos playing. I have a bunch of my sort of trophies and artifacts on display there. But I would say what has worked is if it's something that I am truly passionate about and that I can

• 55:30Speaker 00

  contribute in more ways than just money, the, those seem to be the ones that, that do well enough. And the people behind it, I mean, that's what it is. It's just like, you know, there, there's sort of a dream team of people that I know. And if they tap me to be involved in something, even if something I know nothing about, I'm, I'm in. And, and then now those don't always work either, but, but for the most part, their success rate is, is unparalleled.

• 55:57Sam Parr?

  You're, I'm a, I'm a huge Birdhouse fan. Um, but Rob, when he was on, he was like, man, skateboarding, particularly decks, like it's a really hard business. Like the margins are small. And if I remember correctly.

• 56:09Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 56:10Sam Parr?

  Decks have been like $60 for like 20 years. Like the price has always been the same. They're still 60 bucks. When I was 14, they were $60. Can you tell us the, the origin story of it? And what was like the peak in terms of how big it was? And was it ever even good, even at its peak?

• 56:25Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, the, the first few years of Birdhouse were pretty bleak. In fact, I had a partner at the time, Per Wielander, who was also a pro skater. And he, we had some heavy discussions, I would say, within the third or fourth year of being in business that we, we can't keep doing, we can't keep cutting our salary for one, but we definitely can't lose money. Um, I got lucky that he had a business degree and he was able to, to keep it afloat. And then when the X game started, we saw an uptick of interest, which actually brought us into finally being profitable around 97, 98. And then when the video game was released, I do remember having this conversation with him too, where I said, you know, we got

• 57:09Speaker 00

  to include our skateboards in the game as, as options. And he said, well, they should be paying us. And, and I was like, they don't have any money? You know, they, they weren't throwing money around at the time. And also I disagree because I feel like this could be the ultimate marketing tool. Once this gets out there, people will know what Birdhouse is. And a lot of, you know, some of the skaters in the game were Birdhouse riders, of course, but also because I believe they were some of the best at the time. And that is what happened. When that game got released, our sales went ballistic. I mean, that, those were the, those were the heyday of Birdhouse in terms of recognition, in terms of.

• 57:53Speaker 00

  The consumers wanting it, probably 99 to 2005-ish was sort of the peak. And, but I've kept it going all through the years, even through the harder times, you know, through being creative, doing licensing, trying to supplement the paying riders through other licensing of my own, because I still love it, you know, even it's not, it's, yes, Rob, right, it is not a profitable business, but I don't care.

• 58:27Shaan Puri?

  Hey, I don't know if you saw this story about Novak Djokovic, and it was, I think it was Djokovic, it was some, it was either him or one of the other top players, and they were, he was in a slump, or he was kind of falling out of love with the sport, and his coach or whatever had a great conversation with him, which was like, you know, when you, when you got into this, and you were at your peak, you know, was it because you were winning? Was it because you wanted these titles? Was it, what was the thing? He's like, no, I just love to swing the racket. And he's like, do you still love to swing the racket? He's like, I love to swing the racket. He's like, well, then you should just go out there and swing the racket. And he like, got back on form, and went back to the top, and kind of rediscovered the love of the game. Had, did you, did you have moments, like you said, like after this podcast, I'm gonna go skate. It seems like you really loved-

• 59:08Speaker 00

  I never, I never lost my interest in skating. Not, not once. In fact, at some point, all of the other stuff I was doing, especially when the video game was, was hitting, was just distracting from my actual skate time. And, and I had to schedule it out. And I remember, like, there was a video that these guys wanted me to be in, and I thought it was important, it's like a more core video, but, but it was like, they, they were offering me to be, have a little section in it. And I was looking at my schedule, and I was like, I have, I have from 1pm to 2pm next Thursday. That's all I can give you. And I remember thinking like, this kind of sucks. Like-

• 59:51Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 59:52Speaker 00

  That that's how I have to schedule my skating. It used to be, I, I just did it when I wanted to. I learned to shift that priority through later years. I mean, in all kinds of ways, mostly to spend time with my family, but, but also to find time to skate in a meaningful way, not just for a video.

• 1:00:10Sam Parr?

  Hey, I want to ask you about internet culture, because I grew up watching like 411 videos, and like, basically Sean, like, before the internet, like, there was magazines like Thrasher, and then there was Transworld, and they would put out, I don't think Thrasher did it, but these, these companies in audio and Birdhouse would put out these skate videos quarterly, annually, or they would have like monthly video. It was obviously a video magazine. And you'd have to go to the skate shop, and you'd have to buy it, and it was all word of mouth. And it was [bleep] awesome. Because you start falling in love with these skaters, because they would show personality. Like, it was almost like a combination of skate video, music video, and home video. And then eventually, occasionally, it'd be

• 1:00:52Sam Parr?

  stunts, which is how Jackass kind of came to be. But it was really cool, because it was like, sort of like vlogging before YouTube came around. And it was very impactful to me. And then there was like zines, like Thrasher, which is a magazine that's still around, they were, they were pretty amazing. And it's sort of like when YouTube, it was first E-bombs world, and then YouTube, but when it started getting popular, I remember thinking, this is just skate videos. This is like what I, like, it was very, it was so interesting how this like, subculture, DIY culture, it didn't directly become mainstream, but it definitely influenced the thing that influenced the thing. Do you know what I mean?

• 1:01:28Speaker 00

  Oh, for sure. I think that, yeah, skating, it was just, it was just a bunch of ragtag, creative people trying to find an outlet. And, and it's funny, you said zine, I, someone just gave me this, this is my zine I created in 1982.

• 1:01:46Sam Parr?

  That's awesome.

• 1:01:46Speaker 00

  And my friend had one copy of it. And that's what we did, like, we, this is before, you know, there were no skate magazines, so I just created one.

• 1:01:57Shaan Puri?

  So what would be, what's in that? What would be in it?

• 1:02:00Speaker 00

  Mostly pictures of my friends skating at Dari Local Park, Del Mar. I even like, faked some ads. Like, I made an indie ad of independent writers. Indy didn't pay me anything to do this. In fact, my brother worked at a newspaper at the time. I used all of their resources to make these happen.

• 1:02:17Shaan Puri?

  And then you would distribute them where, like, where would you give those out?

• 1:02:20Speaker 00

  I think I put them, I put them on display at the skate park, because at that time, Del Mar Skate Ranch was the only park open in Southern California. So I just put them on display, and I think that, I sold them for 50 cents. And at one point, the skate park manager said, hey, do you want the money from your magazines? And I had like, $30. And I was so excited.

• 1:02:42Sam Parr?

  Well, did you, did you meet any of the early internet company guys, like, like the, like YouTube or anything like that? Because it seems like there would have been a lot of crossover between this kind of underground world.

• 1:02:53Speaker 00

  The one, the one guy I met in those early days was Kevin Rose, because he, he was a hardcore skater, when he was doing DIG. And he actually got me to go to my first Comic Con, because he wanted to do an interview with me. And it's funny, because I live in San Diego, and I avoided Comic Con like the plague, because of all the traffic. But he and I got close, and, and he's the one who led me into Blue Bottle.

• 1:03:17Sam Parr?

  That's a good hookup.

• 1:03:18Shaan Puri?

  Hey, you said you, you do like corporate speaking, or you do speaking gigs. What's the main message you try to get across at those?

• 1:03:25Speaker 00

  Well, I kind of, it depends on what it is. If it's a keynote, I'll take people through my story for the most part, and, and try to give some examples of turning points and decision making. But also, I, I fine tune it to what their theme is.

• 1:03:40Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 1:03:41Speaker 00

  So I'll pick specific stories to lean into, depending on what their messaging is. And then sometimes I just do what they used to call fireside chats, like with a mediator. I'll take questions from the audience. That's more fun for me, because you can go different places with that, and on different tangents.

• 1:04:01Sam Parr?

  Is there anything that you're gonna look forward to now, in terms of like, business, or in terms of like accomplishments that you haven't done yet? What's keeping you up at night?

• 1:04:09Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. Um, yeah, I don't have like lofty goals, really. I'm just trying to, you know, keep it moving. I'm still skating, so I think that, that's probably, even as, as ridiculous as it sounds, when I'm closing in on 60 here, that I still want to learn some new tricks. But like, I tried a trick yesterday, and I'm gonna go back at it today. It's not, it's not some high impact spinning move, but it, but it's something that, that gives me joy and incentive. But, but in terms of more life stuff, I mean, we have a grandchild now, and that is, I understand why people gush about being grandparents, because that

• 1:04:54Speaker 00

  is the most fun thing ever. And so I want to make time to be available to him. And, and also to still provide for our family. So I'm trying to find that, that's always the challenge, but I'm up for it.

• 1:05:09Sam Parr?

  I've been kind of depressed over the last 12 months, when I go out and skate now. It takes so much longer to warm up, like to get my hips warmed up. It's crazy. And then every time-

• 1:05:18Speaker 00

  I'll tell you, well, when you, when you, when you close in on 58, some days you just don't warm up. You don't get there. That's, that's, that's what you have to look forward to.

• 1:05:29Shaan Puri?

  Just pack it up.

• 1:05:30Speaker 00

  And you just, no, you don't pack it up. You just have to take what you, like, whatever you got that day, you have to take and be like, all right, that's all I could get.

• 1:05:36Sam Parr?

  Like, I used to go, and I'm like, I have to try one new trick. And now, I like, I can't get hurt, because I gotta lift my kids up later today. And so, like, if I feel pressure, it takes forever to get my hips activated and warmed up. It sucks, man. It sucks. It's the only time that I've felt old is skating.

• 1:05:53Speaker 00

  I, well, I, I feel you there, but, but also, I do have some techniques for, for warming up pre-skating that, that have helped me in my last five years, for sure, that I can share with you. But-

• 1:06:05Shaan Puri?

  Maybe, maybe this is the next, the next thing. This is the next Tony Hawk Pro skater. It's a skating for aging-

• 1:06:12Speaker 00

  Tony Hawk Pro Stretching.

• 1:06:13Shaan Puri?

  A skating for aging video series that you create. A DVD, straight to VHS, maybe. And we, we just distribute it to the tens, tens of people out there who are, you know, 40 plus skaters that are trying to still keep-

• 1:06:24Speaker 00

  Well, one of my friends is a pro skater, was a pro skater in the 90s. He actually asked me, like, do you have any tips for sciatica? And I sent him all my stretches I do before I skate. Like, I just set my phone up, and it's like, here's this one, this one, make sure your palms are out.

• 1:06:42Sam Parr?

  Dude, I'm not joking. I need that.

• 1:06:44Speaker 00

  All right, here, well, you want, you want to see one, I'll show you one right now. You ready?

• 1:06:48Shaan Puri?

  Give it to us.

• 1:06:49Speaker 00

  This is, this is the, the first one. Can you see me right here?

• 1:06:52Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:53Speaker 00

  All right.

• 1:06:53Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:54Speaker 00

  You get on one knee, leaning forward. Everything is straight through your back, even your necks. You're trying to push upward with your head and your neck, chin down. And then you had hands out, twist them out, keep them twisting, keep pushing out, like this. Keep all that tension for 30 seconds. Right?

• 1:07:14Sam Parr?

  Are you leaning forward?

• 1:07:14Speaker 00

  And everything. Leaning forward, yeah. You continually forward. Do the other one, 30 seconds, but for your hips, you want to do one outward, too, like this.

• 1:07:26Sam Parr?

  Oh, there you go. Okay.

• 1:07:28Speaker 00

  And then thirty seconds on that. Nah. That's, that's like the quickest warm up.

• 1:07:32Sam Parr?

  When I, I'm gonna go to Riverside, the skate park. And sometimes I go to Tompkins, which Sean, in New York City, Tompkins, it's kinda like, it's a little hardcore. Like the guys are, can be rough and they're really good. I'm gonna do that and I'll be like, guys, Tony, Tony told me, like, it's okay.

• 1:07:48Speaker 00

  I don't, I don't think that's, I don't know if that's gonna get you the leverage that you think it is, but.

• 1:07:53Shaan Puri?

  You're gonna say it either way.

• 1:07:54Speaker 00

  I tend to, I tend to do them outside of the skate space and then I come in more warmed up like that.

• 1:07:59Sam Parr?

  I'm already wearing a helmet, so I'm older than everyone. I'm wearing a helmet, so I already get like.

• 1:08:04Speaker 00

  You're in the club.

• 1:08:05Sam Parr?

  I already get a little look.

• 1:08:07Shaan Puri?

  Why is Tony's foundation building huge stretching areas next to all the parks that they're building?

• 1:08:13Speaker 00

  But I, but I feel you in that, like, you're the, you're, when I go to a skate park, I usually go before 10 a.m. Cause that's the time when it's crusty old dudes, full pads. And, you know, they're not, they're, they're stoked, you're there, they're not gonna give you a hard time or anything. Or it's parents with little kids. So, that's, to me, that's, those are the prime hours, like, like eight to 11 a.m. at the skate park.

• 1:08:39Sam Parr?

  And Sean, one of the fun, I like having Sean here, cause I can explain skating. One of the fun parts when you're a kid is when you do street skating, you go to like corporate buildings and you jump down the stairs and handrails and stuff. And it's up, you always get the police call. And so part of the culture is kinda like avoiding getting that done to you and like the confrontation. I don't do that at all anymore, cause I'm like, I don't want someone to take a photo where I look stupid. I don't want a confrontation, so I'm, I'm softer than cream cheese now. It's only skate parks. Also, I, I don't wanna look.

• 1:09:08Speaker 00

  Well, but, but to, to your advantage, there are way more skate parks than ever.

• 1:09:13Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it's way better.

• 1:09:14Speaker 00

  Street obstacles, so you're living in the best timeline for that.

• 1:09:18Sam Parr?

  But that was like the most fun as a kid was skating until you get the police called and running from the cops and going to different.

• 1:09:24Speaker 00

  I had so many tickets.

• 1:09:26Sam Parr?

  What would, what would a ticket be? Like trespassing?

• 1:09:29Speaker 00

  Um, I'm, I got, I got a ticket for skating on the boardwalk of the beach in Oceanside for a hundred and fifty bucks in 1990.

• 1:09:40Sam Parr?

  That's ridiculous.

• 1:09:41Speaker 00

  And that was, and I paid it to avoid going to court to try to fight it, cause I was like, I guess you can't skate on the boardwalk. I thought this was California. I thought like we were living the dream.

• 1:09:50Sam Parr?

  Have you been arrested?

• 1:09:51Speaker 00

  No, I got, I got a speeding ticket in Georgia. And this is around the same time, like 92-ish. And, I mean, I was, I literally rented a Geo Metro. I got a speeding ticket for going 70 in a 55. And the guy looked at my license and immediately, like, his whole vibe changed, cause it was from California. And he's like, oh, I'm taking this guy down. And he goes, well, you're from California, I can't write you a ticket, you're gonna have to come to the, the sheriff's department. And put me in a holding cell.

• 1:10:27Sam Parr?

  Wow, for 25 over.

• 1:10:28Speaker 00

  And then, well, he just, he just said like he couldn't process, whatever it was, whatever his excuse was, he couldn't process. He couldn't process a driver's license from California. Um, and I had to pay cash to get out. And I was like, well, how do I get cash? And luckily, there was someone with me who was one of our team riders. And I handed him my ATM card. I said, just go get as much as you can out of the, out of an ATM, please, right now. And so he had to drive into this little town, get whatever I could get, 200 bucks, come back, and I paid the fine, they let us go.

• 1:11:02Sam Parr?

  I think you got hustled, my friend.

• 1:11:03Speaker 00

  It felt like a shakedown.

• 1:11:04Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it's like when the, when you're at a strip club and they wanna give you a lap dance, they take you straight to the ATM and then you go in the back.

• 1:11:11Speaker 00

  I mean, it wasn't, but yeah, so to answer your question, was I in jail? Kinda?

• 1:11:16Sam Parr?

  Well, no, you were.

• 1:11:17Shaan Puri?

  Well, we'll take that as a yes. Um, I gotta say, we've done like a thousand episodes of this podcast. You are one of my favorite guys to ever have on. You are, you're.

• 1:11:26Speaker 00

  Oh, I appreciate that.

• 1:11:26Shaan Puri?

  Such a fun hang, super humble, um, just a good time, man. I really appreciate this. Like, this was a lot of fun for us.

• 1:11:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me.

• 1:11:35Shaan Puri?

  And I know, and Sam, I wanna compliment you for hiding how exciting this is for you. I know you, you let a little bit of it out, but like, Sam is like, you know, he's gonna have to call a doctor after this. It's lasting for more than four hours here, so, Sam, good job. Keep doing those three CC flips, don't lose them.

• 1:11:51Sam Parr?

  I'm gonna try and do them until I'm 50 and it was, you know, you're my hero as a kid and I still look up to you. So I definitely was giddy on the inside, talking to you, so I really appreciate it.

• 1:12:01Speaker 00

  I appreciate it.

• 1:12:02Sam Parr?

  It's badass. Um, well, thank you. That's it. That's the pod.

• 1:12:15Shaan Puri?

  All right, let's take a quick break. I wanna tell you about Marketing School. It is a podcast that is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network and it is run by Neil Patel and Eric Su. And these guys are both marketers who are running businesses. And so if you want real world tactics from practitioners who are actually out there in the field doing it, this is the podcast for you. Check it out wherever you get your podcasts.