Newsletter Schemes, Copywriting Scams and Chaotic Singles

Episode 484: Shaan Puri (https://twitter.com/ShaanVP) and Sam Parr (https://twitter.com/theSamParr) talk about a questionable newsletter growth hack called co-reg, try to figure out how Bobbi Althoff became an overnight success, explore the wild world of Chaotic Singles Parties & DateMe Docs, go through a list of things our grandkids will think are insane and discuss the greatest copywriting scam ever written. Want to see more MFM? Subscribe to the MFM YouTube channel here. — Check Out Sam's Stuff: • Hampton - https://www.joinhampton.com/ • Ideation Bootcamp - https://www.ideationbootcamp.co/ • Copy That - https://copythat.com/ Check Out Shaan's Stuff: • Try Shepherd Out - https://www.supportshepherd.com/ • Shaan's Personal Assistant System - http://shaanpuri.com/remoteassistant • Power Writing Course - https://maven.com/generalist/writing • Small Boy Newsletter: https://smallboy.co/ • Daily Newsletter - https://www.shaanpuri.com/ — Show Notes: (0:00) Intro (4:05) Newsletter growth scheme (16:25) Laird Hamilton interview recap (18:10) Why is Bobbi Althoff famous? (24:30) Chaotic Singles Party (30:00) DateMe Docs (43:50) Things our grandkids will think are insane (1:01:55) The greatest copywriting scam ever written — Links: • Bobbi Althoff - https://www.instagram.com/bobbialthoff/ • Chaos Singles Parties - https://tinyurl.com/mpuedh9h • DateMe Docs - https://dateme.directory/#4b549b56a88049da98be378370125912 • The League - https://www.theleague.com/ • Raya - https://www.rayatheapp.com/ • Copywriting Scam - https://thewalrus.ca/the-greatest-scam-ever-written/ • Boron Letters - https://morgancrozier.com/boron-letters/ • Do you love MFM and want to see Sam and Shaan's smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. — Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. — Other episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto • #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Shaan Puri?

  We sent him an email. He said, uh, hey, just wanted to blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, if, if you read The Milk Road, you like it, like, just respond with, like, whatever. Hello.

• 0:07Sam Parr?

  Tell me where you're, like, hey, you're a subscriber to The Milk Road. Where do you live?

• 0:11Shaan Puri?

  Guess how many replies we got?

• 0:12Sam Parr?

  I have no idea.

• 0:14Shaan Puri?

  I think we literally got three replies.

• 0:16Sam Parr?

  Out of how many sends?

• 0:17Shaan Puri?

  There was maybe like, I don't know, I want to say like 20,000 or something like that.

• 0:20Sam Parr?

  20,000 in three replies?

• 0:33Shaan Puri?

  Dude, according to the YouTube data, by the end of this sentence, half the audience will have dropped off. That's how content goes nowadays. You have like four, 4.2 seconds to hook everybody.

• 0:45Sam Parr?

  Is that true? Was, is it really that short? I thought it was like-

• 0:48Shaan Puri?

  I'm just joking, but it, it is like that. I mean, like, after somebody clicks play, you just see the, the curve start to go space mountain downwards and then, uh, and then it flattens out, but-

• 1:00Sam Parr?

  Are you looking at the data? Like, I, I, I rarely log in.

• 1:04Shaan Puri?

  You just let it flash the camera in the first five seconds every, every time. So there we go.

• 1:08Sam Parr?

  You know how like, there's a joke about news anchors wearing like, uh, shorts with me? It's the sleeveless t-shirt.

• 1:18Sam Parr?

  I'm going jacket, sleeveless t, baby. How's that for flash?

• 1:25Shaan Puri?

  I mean, I don't even know what you're prepared for. You're like, I can go outside, it can rain. I can become a doctor for a minute. I can work out, I can climb a mountain.

• 1:35Sam Parr?

  Well, it's, it's a, it's a hundred and seven degrees in Austin today, and so I'm either shirtless or sleeveless t most of the time. When I record, I gotta put the jacket on, so I look a little professional.

• 1:47Shaan Puri?

  Dude, I've been trying to convince Ben to move to California from Austin.

• 1:52Sam Parr?

  I originally pegged it at a 15% chance. What's, what's it at now?

• 1:56Shaan Puri?

  Oh, I think we're like up to 50. I think we've made serious headway. Now, I put in all this work. What I needed to do was just wait for summer. Just smoke them out, right? All I had to do was just smoke them out. I don't know if I ever told you this. I once was doing a deal. That required us to negotiate with a company called PetroChina. PetroChina is basically like ExxonMobil, but it's owned by the government in China. And so we go to this and they're like the big, they're like, you know, huge company, but it's owned by the government. So nobody knows how much it's worth, all that stuff, but it's mega powerful oil and gas company in China. So we go and we're supposed to negotiate this deal. And I, I kid you not, they just, they did the opposite of smoking us out or sweating us out. They just froze us out.

• 2:39Shaan Puri?

  They put us in a room that was like just cold as hell. And there was no way out, like first getting to the room was like a 20 minute walk, like a, like a passage, like going through this labyrinth of doors. And we get to this room, we're in, they're like, they'll be with you soon. And then they leave and seven hours pass. And we're sitting in this room and I'm like, hey, I think they forgot about us. And we gotta go talk to somebody. And then I tried to stand up and immediately an arm like puts me back in the chair. They're like, no, no, no, this is part of doing business.

• 3:13Sam Parr?

  To freeze you?

• 3:15Shaan Puri?

  Just to, yeah, just to make it uncomfortable. And they're like, you show no weakness here. We just sit and we.

• 3:20Sam Parr?

  There's this urban myth, I don't know if it's true or not, where Steve Cohen, uh, you know, one of the guys who apparently is based off of, uh, or his billions of characters based off of him, Steve Cohen, rich guy owns the Mets. Where the reason why Patagonia vests are popular on Wall Street is he used to make his office freezing. So when the SEC regulators would come in, they're really uncomfortable and everyone knew.

• 3:42Shaan Puri?

  They didn't want to stay.

• 3:43Sam Parr?

  Yeah, they didn't want to stay, but so apparently it works.

• 3:47Shaan Puri?

  Dude, I mean, my Costco has a walk-in freezer where you go get like our walk-in fridge where you, but it's a room. It's a giant room where you go get vegetables. That thing is so uncomfortable. I mean, it's like, whatever's the nearest vegetable, that's all I'm getting. And then I'm getting out of there. So I definitely believe it. If I was the SEC, I would, I would get the fuck out of there.

• 4:06Sam Parr?

  I forgot to ask you this, so in, uh,

• 4:11Sam Parr?

  Right now, so basically in 2017, I wrote this ad for the hustle and it was, "My boss thinks I'm smart, parentheses, I'm not. It's because I read the hustle and he has no idea that it exists, dash, a reader of the hustle." And that was like our ad on Facebook. On Twitter, I see that ad everywhere, for every newsletter, for every like AI where it was like, "My boss thinks I know about AI, I don't." The reason I-

• 4:39Shaan Puri?

  Well, what happened is you did it, Morning Brew then did it, so they copied you.

• 4:42Sam Parr?

  Did they do it?

• 4:43Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, Morning Brew's been running an ad like that for a long time. So you, if you've seen those ads, you're like, "Oh, good idea, I'll copy that." Then the other thing was, uh, Facebook launched the ad library. So now you can go see other companies' ads, so you can just go and look what ads they're running. Google launched an ad library, TikTok now launched an ad library, so you can go see anyone's TikTok ads too. Then you've talked about that ad on the podcast, and I noticed after you said it on the podcast, then people started running it. Then there's also a guy who worked for you, worked for us at Milk Road, who then goes and he's pitching, uh, he's basically going and telling every newsletter company, "I'm the key to the growth of the hustle of Milk Road, of every fucking newsletter company. I did it, I'm the best, um, I could tell you exactly what they did."

• 5:27Shaan Puri?

  And, um, I don't know about you for the hustle, but for us, I'm like, this guy is massively overstating what he did, but like, whatever, I mean, I guess-

• 5:36Sam Parr?

  We were already in a, we already had a million subscribers, but yeah, I mean, and I didn't work closely with him, but I'm, uh, I'm sure he's great, I just, uh, we were a bit-

• 5:46Shaan Puri?

  I'm not saying he's bad at his job, but he is definitely overselling and he is, people will come to me and they'll be like, um, "Hey, I just wanted to get a quick reference check. This guy basically, like, he does a presentation, a sales deck that just says like, "I did everything for Milk Road, like, I figured it all out, I did all these things." Uh, like, is that legit? And I'm like, no, and actually, the funny thing is, I think in the short term that helped him, in the long term that hurt him, because two very big names have come to me. And they said, "Hey, I'm thinking about hiring this guy, sounds like he did great work for you guys, just wanted to do a quick pulse check, like, um, thumbs up, thumbs down, would you recommend?" And I was like- I wish I could say yes, but like, no, for these two reasons. One, he's overstating what he did. If he just said what he did, it would have been fine.

• 6:29Shaan Puri?

  Two, when we sold the company, he went and put up a Twitter thread saying like, hey, Milk Road sold, and here's all the things that they do to, to grow. And we asked him, we were like, hey, man, can you take that down? Like, we're still running as a business. Like, you can't just, you shouldn't just, like, you're a, you're a service provider. You're, you're a contractor for us.

• 6:47Sam Parr?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:48Shaan Puri?

  We're a client of yours. We never said.

• 6:50Sam Parr?

  And you want some confidentiality.

• 6:51Shaan Puri?

  You should never go publish all of your clients' things, or it's not actually all, but like, we don't want any of this stuff out there.

• 6:57Sam Parr?

  Right.

• 6:57Shaan Puri?

  And, um, and he's like, no, I gotta get mine too from the sale. And I'm like, what? Like, dude, I'm asking you to take this down. Are you really gonna, like, your client is.

• 7:07Sam Parr?

  So it was never deleted?

• 7:08Shaan Puri?

  And he was, he tried to say no again. And I was like, wow, like, Jesus, that is like insanely unprofessional to do that. Um, in my opinion, at least. And, uh, you know, so whatever. He did delete it after that. After I was like, wow, are you like, are you serious? This is actually the stance you're gonna take? That's an insane stance to take.

• 7:27Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I don't like when people talk about.

• 7:28Shaan Puri?

  Two, two really big names that I think would have been like way bigger than the hustle, way bigger than Milk Road. We're gonna work with them. Have asked me, and I'm like, I can't, I'm just gonna tell you what my experience was. You decide. And they're like, oh, no, we would not want to work with somebody who does that. And I was like, damn, like, the short term.

• 7:44Sam Parr?

  Yeah, that hurts.

• 7:45Shaan Puri?

  Leads to long term loss, unfortunately. Like, you know, that's the, the irony of, of doing stuff like, and I've done stuff like that too, where I make a short term, short term, good decision that actually costs me in the long run, but it's hard to see in the moment, you know, so it's, it's.

• 8:00Sam Parr?

  Yeah, that's a, that's a, that's an expensive lesson. But my question was, were you running this ad and did it still work? Up until we sold, it was still working?

• 8:08Shaan Puri?

  We didn't run that ad. We didn't run my boss things and whatever. Um, we did, I think, try a version of like, my friends think I'm, uh, you know, like, whatever. My friends think I, I know everything about crypto. What they don't know is that I just read the Milk Road every morning. Um, something like that. I think we ran that. But those weren't high perform, like, that wasn't the highest performer. Our other, we had other stuff that was better performers, but, um.

• 8:32Sam Parr?

  Dude, that was our best one.

• 8:34Shaan Puri?

  More than 50% of our subscribers were organic. So. It does like, you know, you know, the if more than 50% of your growth comes organic, then that that means it's the content that's the content, the brand.

• 8:48Sam Parr?

  Dude, I've talked to so many of these new newsletter guys and they're all doing so when we when we started the hustle, like up into hundreds of thousands were organic. And then we like learned, I didn't know what paid marketing was, and we learned about it. And then we started doing this thing called co-registration, which it would typically only scammy marketer type of people would do that, like people selling like sex pills and shit. And we were like, well, that's interesting. Like in theory, let's actually figure out what it means in a non scammy way. And so we like.

• 9:15Shaan Puri?

  Well, explain it. So you go to a site.

• 9:17Sam Parr?

  So for example, you go to, I'll try to find a real life example. Go to, if you go to bold.org, it's a website where you can apply, you can enter in your information and it automatically applies you to tons and tons of different scholarships. And what it says was, great, if you want, somehow they have a point system where it's like, it's free to use, but you have to sign up for like these newsletters in order to be able to, in order to be able to apply to even more scholarships. And so we would pay bold.org some money. I don't remember the money, $1, let's say, for every college kid who entered their email and sent them to the hustle.

• 10:00Sam Parr?

  And then they would go and subscribe to more stuff, more scholarships. And so that's what co-reg is. So you're registering for one thing, but then you are asked to register for another thing in exchange for some type of perk. Typically, that's an internet marketing hack that's done with scammy stuff, really scammy people. But we went to product hunt and we were like, hey, have you guys thought about doing co-reg? And they're like, yeah, we're working on it. We're like, well, that would be great. We would be your first customer. And so that's how we started growing really quickly. Or we were already growing quickly, but once you, you know, we're adding like, we're adding like 5,000 people a day.

• 10:31Shaan Puri?

  We have to reinvent at every, every stage, right? At the beginning, you do friends, friends and family. Then you do your own social media. Then you do posts that are really good content that's going to go viral. That's going to get you now to the, to the next level of organic. Then you start layering on some paid. Then you have to diversify your paid because not one source is going to work as well as the others. And they, you know, they don't all scale, right?

• 10:52Sam Parr?

  And when you're adding a hundred thousand people a month, you have like 50% or some amount is still organic. But then that's still like 80,000 customers that you need to sign up. So some will be Facebook, some of this, some of that, some Co-Reg. So Co-Reg worked really well. The problem with it is that it's a very low intent reader. So like the scholarship person isn't like the highest is like, hey, Sean, sign up for Milk Road. It's awesome. That's high intent, less, less high, but still high is like, oh, I saw this ad on Facebook saying there's this newsletter. That sounds cool. I'm interested. The lowest intent is I'm trying to buy a, I'm trying to get a coupon for Target, but I have to get entering the, I have to get my email. Yeah. In order, that's the lowest intent. Or I'm trying to win this free prize and I get more entries if I just sign up for this fucking newsletter, whatever, I'll sign up for it.

• 11:37Sam Parr?

  That's the lowest intent. Now I talked to, but that, but the, the, the thing is, is that you grow quickly. So for a quarter, you can get an email subscriber, but for every 10 email subscribers, only one will actually be of high quality. And so the problem is, is you get addicted to this. And so I was talking to all these other newsletter guys and they're like, I got to a hundred thousand in like six months. I'm like, oh, sick. How they go, oh, this thing called Co-Reg. And I'm like, oh, you're fucked. This is a horrible newsletter. You're fucked. This is a, your business is, is dog shit.

• 12:04Shaan Puri?

  There's, there's other versions of this. So Substack has a thing where you subscribe to someone's Substack. And then they're like, here's five other Substacks you might like auto-checked and you just, you're just trying to continue. And now you're subscribed to five newsletters and you see people whose curve on Substack looks flat. It's like, you know, normal growth, normal, good growth, normal, good growth. And then like hockey stick. It's like, yes, I crossed 300,000, 500,000 subscribers. It's like, yeah, but these aren't people who actually want to read your thing. And then the other thing is that they think the open rate is high, but open rates nowadays, because of the way that

• 12:35Sam Parr?

  They've changed with Apple.

• 12:37Shaan Puri?

  And cookie stuff works. It's, it's not reliable. So for example,

• 12:40Sam Parr?

  Yeah. When we started, 40% was good. When we started, 40% was good. That was considered the best. And then 50%, we would get 50% and we were like, we're the greatest there is. Now everyone is 50%.

• 12:50Shaan Puri?

  Right. And, and cause it's because they're not actually 50%. It's because open rates cannot be measured the same way they used to be able to be measured where it was more, more reliable. Now you have to use click through rate or whatever. Uh, like are people actually clicking your, your ads, your content, that sort of thing. And so, uh, this guy that I was, I was talking about for the Milk Road, he was the one who was like, oh yeah, Co-Reg, we should do this. We were like, okay, let's try it. Let's see how it goes. We tried it. Sure enough. Sure enough, you get you get good growth out of it, but.

• 13:17Sam Parr?

  And you get addicted to it.

• 13:18Shaan Puri?

  But it's the quality so bad. So after we sold, we were like, hey, let's, you know, like some point we were like, okay, let's look at all these sources. We're getting this organic. We're getting this from here, this from here. We did an analysis. And we're like, all right, let's test this co-grad thing. The open rates look good. Let's just, uh, let's, how do we figure out if these are high quality or not? Like, I don't know. Open rates are good. The cost is good. Should be fine, right? We sent him an email. He said, uh, hey, just wanted to. Oh, blah, blah. You know, if if you read the milk road, you like it, like, just respond with like, whatever. Hello.

• 13:47Sam Parr?

  Tell me where you're like, hey, you're a subscriber to the milk road. Where do you live? Yeah, we want to know where you live.

• 13:51Shaan Puri?

  If somebody actually reads your daily newsletter 50% of the time, they're so excited to get an email from the founder that says, you know, hey, I'm just reaching out to say whatever. They'll give a very high reply rate.

• 14:03Shaan Puri?

  Guess how many replies we got?

• 14:05Sam Parr?

  I have no idea.

• 14:07Shaan Puri?

  I think we literally got three replies.

• 14:09Sam Parr?

  Out of how many sends?

• 14:10Shaan Puri?

  There was maybe like, I don't know, I want to say like 20,000 or something like that.

• 14:13Sam Parr?

  20,000 and three replied?

• 14:15Shaan Puri?

  It was, it was like a big number. Yeah. I don't know the exacts, but like, I know that the reply number was something like three replies that day. Maybe more trickled in, but like, doesn't matter. That day, three people replied and we were like, oh, cut this off immediately. Um, and that same guy goes and he pedals that to all the other newsletters. It's like, yeah, this is what the hustle did. This is what Bill Crowe does. It's like, and we did with a small percentage of what we were doing. And as soon as we were able to test it, we were like, oh, screw this. Why would we want a subscriber number? Like, unless you're trying to dupe somebody, you don't want a subscriber number that's not real, right? Like, real subscribers is the only way to build a real business. And, uh, you know, I talked to the morning brew guys and I think they're, they're also very like, they, I think, just straight measure on like, what does this lead to in terms of clicks on our ads?

• 14:59Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 15:00Shaan Puri?

  Like, uh, or like conversions even, you know, from.

• 15:02Sam Parr?

  How many people buy our advertisers?

• 15:04Shaan Puri?

  Buying something, right? Like if you, because if I'm, if I'm getting you as a customer, that's the right way to do it, right? That's the, the sustainable way to do it. Uh, but I don't think people, you know, kids these days, they're doing it differently than than back in our day, one, one year ago.

• 15:17Sam Parr?

  I remember way back then, six months ago. No, that, that's how they have to do it. And they also, um, another thing is I talked to another guy and I was like, well, of your list, how many, if you said that you're hosting an AI event that was free, uh, how many people are going to show up? He's like, oh, we'd sell out immediately. I'm like, great. Then you're doing that. That sounds like you're doing it correctly. And then I talked to another guy. I'm like, well, how many people would show up to this event? And they're like, uh, no one. I'm like, well, then this, this business sucks. Like they're, they're not, they're not real. Uh, you should bail and quit, uh, or start over. Uh, but yeah, the, the courage thing is mostly nonsense. It doesn't always have to be, or you could, uh,

• 15:54Sam Parr?

  it's kind of a pain in the ass. If you make money through advertising, it's like, you need to hit a top line number. And that's why I hate advertising is because there's very, there's inverse incentives. So like, not everyone's aligned for the same thing. And so I think that's why I fucking hate advertising. Uh, it could be done well, but when you have like a team to support and you want Katie to hit her quota and get paid. I'm like, ah, fuck, you gotta like make sacrifices and I hate that. But anyway, I wanted to bring up this ad because we were talking about copywriting. On Friday, I, uh, interviewed Laird Hamilton.

• 16:27Shaan Puri?

  How did it go?

• 16:28Sam Parr?

  So it went really bad. Uh, it went very.

• 16:31Shaan Puri?

  Not what I expected you to say.

• 16:34Sam Parr?

  It went bad. Uh,

• 16:36Shaan Puri?

  Like what?

• 16:37Sam Parr?

  Well, he's not a business guy for one, but I'm like a fitness, I'm into fitness and stuff, but I wanted to ask him all the fitness stuff, but I was like, I don't, I've watched so many hours of him leading up to it. And I was like, I don't want to just ask the same questions. Like I just watched so much of your stuff that all the questions that I thought I was going to have, you've already answered them. Yeah, you've answered it. And so there was like that, that there, but also dude, I just think it's a bummer to meet your heroes because he's amazing. But I just want him to be this like idea rather than this reality. Do you know what I mean? I like, I like him. So like, I remember like, I, I just, I've been very lucky to meet a bunch of my heroes.

• 17:19Sam Parr?

  And once you meet them, they're a little bit less of a here, a hero. And I think I just prefer them being a hero. Uh, not to say that he didn't live up to my expectations. He did. It was just that, uh, I don't want to be even remotely a peer of his. I want him to be like, you know,

• 17:33Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 17:34Sam Parr?

  My, my great grandpa who I've read, heard stories about.

• 17:37Shaan Puri?

  If you're a fan of this podcast, if you consider me a Sam, you know, somebody that you look up to in any way, prepare to be disappointed. All right. We're just very average people. When you meet us, we will destroy, we will ruin this podcast for you.

• 17:52Sam Parr?

  But I was super self-conscious about it. So if you guys hear the pod, let me know, like in the YouTube comments, what you think. But it was, it was only okay. I think it was, maybe it was only okay for me as, cause I was in interviewing him, but I just learned so much about him. And I'm like, oh, I already know everything. There's nothing new to know about you. Or I'm just not unique enough to ask a question.

• 18:12Shaan Puri?

  You should have shifted gears and gone Bobby Althoff on him.

• 18:15Sam Parr?

  What's that? Oh, uh, like the

• 18:18Shaan Puri?

  Awkward interview girl.

• 18:19Sam Parr?

  And just act like you don't care. She has shot up. So basically I saw her on Tik Tok. And I, the thing about Tik Tok and Instagram is you don't know who else knows what you're watching, right? Like it's hard, like there's no like chart or there's no like greatest hits. And so I was just like, who is this random chick popping up? Interviewing these, these guys when she's like in her bed.

• 18:42Shaan Puri?

  Interviewing like Drake, like not just like

• 18:44Sam Parr?

  But then I saw Drake and I'm like, what the hell? What is going on with this? How is this like? Just this 21 year old woman who's like rude to her guest, talking to Drake. And then on the podcast charts, I think she was number one for a few days.

• 18:59Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. She's been in the top five. She went from, I've never heard of this person and she didn't have a podcast to a top five podcast in like two weeks. So we're doing something wrong.

• 19:10Sam Parr?

  Well, yeah, for sure. She has this ad for SeatGeek. SeatGeek advertised on her podcast with Drake and she was like, so today's sponsor is SeatGeek, which makes sense because Drake apparently hosts events. And I think SeatGeek lets you buy tickets for events. So if you like events and Drake.

• 19:31Sam Parr?

  Yeah. And she goes, and they give you $20. Cool.

• 19:37Sam Parr?

  That's her ad. So

• 19:38Shaan Puri?

  No, no, the, the call to action was the best. She said something like, uh, she was like, so go, um, you can use SeatGeek if you want, I guess.

• 19:52Sam Parr?

  It's so funny. She's pretty good. I don't want to listen to 60 minutes of that interview, but like

• 19:59Shaan Puri?

  So she's interviewing Drake, which is like, I think her first podcast that came out and she's like, in the middle of it, she's like, I don't, I don't know any other questions. Do you have any other questions? And he's like, uh, not really, like,

• 20:15Sam Parr?

  Weren't they in bed under the covers during the interview?

• 20:18Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, they're in a bed, which is just, I mean, she's a genius, clearly. So she's a genius. So I think her story is she was like a mom. She was like a mommy TikToker.

• 20:29Shaan Puri?

  But I don't really understand how she went from mommy TikToker to podcaster interviewing Drake. With like a really clear brand. That's amazing. Like a very distinct style. That's amazing. Cause if you watch her TikToks, she doesn't talk like that. It's just a character. She's, or she doesn't, I mean, it's not like, I don't think her TikTok is mainly like that. Like I'm gonna pull one up right now, but like,

• 20:55Sam Parr?

  No, uh, some of it was, is like normal or her joking around with her friends. But no, it's, it's like Stephen Colbert, but instead of this conservative guy, it's the, I don't give a shit type of person. So

• 21:07Shaan Puri?

  She, uh, I watched like an hour straight of one of these podcasts. I rarely listened to like, if you tell me, hey, there's a new podcast. Like I need 10 people to recommend a podcast before I go try it. You know what I mean? Like, it's not like an easy ask. But, um, yeah, I got hooked on her shit really quickly and watched a hour long awkward interview with her and Mark Cuban and her with Rick Glassman. I don't know if you saw this, but she did one with Rick Glassman and it didn't seem like he was in on the joke.

• 21:36Sam Parr?

  Who's Rick Glassman?

• 21:38Shaan Puri?

  I think he was actually the first one that she recorded. Rick Glassman's a comedian. He's

• 21:43Sam Parr?

  Oh, got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:44Shaan Puri?

  He might've been in on the joke because he's like a very talented guy. Like he could, he could find that line where it looks like he's not in on the joke, but he is.

• 21:53Shaan Puri?

  But she was just like, uh, I mean, she's just awkwardly interviewing him and he, at some point he's just like,

• 21:59Shaan Puri?

  What is like, what is this? Why are you doing this? And she's like, why am I doing what? I'm interviewing you. And he's like, no, but you're, he's like, you're saying that you're interviewing me, but everything I say, you just say is a lie. Why would I lie? Why would I come to your podcast and lie? And she's like, I don't know. Why are you lying? And then he's like, I, he's like, I'm not lying. Is this your bit? Is this what you do? And he's like, he just can't figure it out. He's like, I'm sorry, I was frustrated and defensive because I felt like you were trolling me or something. I didn't understand what was happening. I still don't really understand what's happening, but I'm going to do better to try to answer your questions. And then she's like, thank you. You were being mean. And he's like, I wasn't being mean. I was reacting.

• 22:39Sam Parr?

  I want to know what happens before and after the interview. Because after like, so you and I have done some stuff in person with people and like, you're really cool and friendly enough to people. But I don't know what you do afterwards, like particularly with like a Tucker Carlson interview where he's like getting mean with people. And like, do you shake hands afterwards and say, thanks for coming? You know what I mean? Or, or does like, does it, does it?

• 22:59Shaan Puri?

  That was terrible. Thank you. That was.

• 23:01Sam Parr?

  Yeah, like, oh, we dislike each other strongly. Yeah. So I'm curious to see what like the perform, where she's like, and seen. And does she like be friendly and like give him a hug? I, I, I don't, I would like to see what that before and after is like.

• 23:14Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I, I don't know. She's a mystery to me. Somebody explain this to me. I, I, I just don't understand who she is, how she landed such big guests, why she immediately is so popular. I mean, like, I get her brand, but like, how did she even break out? That's kind of what I don't get. But whatever. Bobby Althoff, good, good for you, Bobby Althoff. 25 years old, I think, 25, 26 years old and like clearly going to be one of the most famous podcasters already.

• 23:41Sam Parr?

  Yeah, fuck us.

• 23:45Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I mean, that's the third time that's happened or the second time it's happened with the Call Her Daddy woman. Where like, it was like episode two, she shot up there. That's pretty rare. I mean, it's more common with YouTube with podcasts that that doesn't happen often at all.

• 23:59Shaan Puri?

  Right. Now someone's going to do that obnoxious tweet where it's like, everybody thinks Bobby Althoff is an overnight success. Here's how it was 10 years in the making. And then it's just going to be like, you know? Some stupid origin story that like really wasn't like she actually is kind of an overnight success.

• 24:15Sam Parr?

  Yeah, which is cool. I like.

• 24:17Shaan Puri?

  There should be some, right?

• 24:18Sam Parr?

  There should be some. People talk about like they don't exist. I'm like, well, Instagram was only two years old. I mean, like, those are real. Like, i- it's real. Um, which, which, which one of these things you want to go to?

• 24:28Shaan Puri?

  All right. Um, dating. So you and I both happily married off the dating market, but shit's getting crazy in the dating world. I don't know if you've seen these two things I'm going to tell you about. The first one is called Chaos Singles Party. Have you ever heard of this?

• 24:44Sam Parr?

  No. Do you download the dating apps now just to like check it out and see what it's about?

• 24:49Shaan Puri?

  If my wife asks, it's just, just for science. No, of course, no, I bought all these, but I read the, this is in the New York Times. So, I heard, I read this story in the New York Times and I was like, what? This sounds fascinating. So here's the story. This woman, Cassidy Davis, is on the dating app. She's just a normal person. And it's Valentine's Day, 2022. So last year, Valentine's Day, she's frustrated. She doesn't, doesn't have anything to do on Valentine's. So she just, basically, she's like, hey, here's what we should do. We should throw like a singles party on Valentine's Day. So if you're single on Valentine's Day, come to this. She tells every one of her girlfriends who's also struggling with online dating, hey, match with someone on Tinder and then invite them to this party, invite them to a house party.

• 25:33Shaan Puri?

  And they're like, what? And she's like, yeah, just match with one person, invite them as your plus one to this house party, but everybody's going to do it. So it'll be just a bunch of single people at this party. And she's like, all right. So they, they try to do it. She at the last minute is like, I don't know if anyone's going to come. So she invites 65 guys from Tinder to be like, come. And they're like, what is happening? Is this real? Are you like catfishing me? She's like, dude, just either come or don't come. All right. That's it. And so she has this house party and you could see the video on her, on her TikTok, but it's like a very.

• 26:00Sam Parr?

  Which city?

• 26:01Shaan Puri?

  I'm not sure where this one was, but it's a small, it was like a small thing. It looked like maybe there was like 20 people there, but they were kind of having fun. So it was like a bunch of single young people playing like drinking games, whatever. She records a, she makes a TikTok out of it, stitches it together, like just the highlights of the party, basically. Posted on TikTok and says what she did. She goes, she's like, I did the most chaotic thing possible for Valentine's Day. I invited, I told all my girlfriends to match with someone on Tinder and invite them to my house for this house party. And it was awesome. And then people, that thing explodes. That video gets like, whatever, tons of views. And the concept, people really like this concept. And so she's like, I'm gonna do

• 26:43Shaan Puri?

  another one. So she posts an update. She's like, I'm gonna do another one in two or three weeks. Puts a link up for the chaos singles party. Same rules.

• 26:51Sam Parr?

  Is it free?

• 26:52Shaan Puri?

  Um, I think it might have been free. Maybe there's a cover charge. I'm not sure. 500 people show up to that one. And since then, for the last year and a half of this woman's life, she's just been going on the road, traveling city to city. She partnered up with Tinder. They like promote this thing now. In the app, they'll even promote her, her parties. Um, and she gets paid to basically host these things. And now 200, 300 people a night come to these singles parties. Same rules. Match with one. That's your plus one. Come to this event. You can mix and mingle. You can, you can stick with the person you invited or, or just whatever. It's all just people on Tinder who want to like, have this chaos singles party. I love this idea.

• 27:30Sam Parr?

  This is awesome. I'm looking at her TikTok now.

• 27:33Shaan Puri?

  So well done by her. And now these things are like big, like they're, they're partnering with like legit venues. It like, looks like a lot of fun. It looks like a whole, whole scene now.

• 27:41Sam Parr?

  This is awesome. I'm looking at her TikTok. This woman's talented. Did I tell you about the, or did you ever see the Twitter things that I used to do for dating sometimes?

• 27:50Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, those were great. It was basically like, my friend, right?

• 27:53Sam Parr?

  It was basically like, it was Thanksgiving and, uh, we were having friends over and some of them were single. And I'm like, they were like, hey, can you post me on your Twitter? I want, uh,

• 28:04Shaan Puri?

  They asked or you said it? Cause that's crazy ask.

• 28:07Sam Parr?

  One of the people made a joke. They're like, dude, just post me on your Twitter. I need to meet a guy. Or some of it was like, one of Sarah's friends was like, I need to meet a, a nice, a nice guy who's successful. Can you like, introduce me? I was like, I'm just gonna post you on Twitter. And then I was like, well, I don't want to make you the only person, like I'm your pimp. So I'm gonna get 10 friends. And the Twitter said, the tweet said, um, um, hope you're hungry on Thanksgiving Day. Uh, you know, like here's 10 people, 10 of my buds. Yeah, I was like, hope you're hungry.

• 28:35Shaan Puri?

  Meet my friend Jessica.

• 28:37Sam Parr?

  Yeah. Here's 10, here's 10 of my friends who are single. And I said like a little bit about what they do for work and just, I just went on their Instagram and took a picture. And it got viewed like 2 million times and I got DM'd by a lot of brands like, hey, you want to make this a thing? We'll sponsor it. I was like, no, that's not going to be my thing. I don't want that. No, I was just fucking around. And I think that that could potentially work. Like we actually turned it into like a, like where it's like an affluent crowd dating app or something like that. I think I, I did it with Jonathan and Jonathan actually met a girl who he went out with, I think like a handful of times. Like so for Jonathan, I think it was successful.

• 29:14Shaan Puri?

  Is this true? What, what happened after you got posted on this thing?

• 29:17Speaker 02

  Well, one of the girls who applied, shout out to Connor and she came to the South by meetup that we did. So I got to meet her there, hung out a little bit.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  But in terms of like my DMs, like I got hit up by a gay dude and this nice Indian woman who I decided not to reply to.

• 29:36Shaan Puri?

  Super successful.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, but for her and for, for the women, I'm sure it crushed.

• 29:41Sam Parr?

  Are you still seeing that girl? Connor, are you guys just buddies now?

• 29:45Speaker 02

  Um, nah, not really. She lives in Florida, so.

• 29:49Sam Parr?

  But it kind of worked.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:53Shaan Puri?

  We're grasping for straws here.

• 29:55Sam Parr?

  I mean.

• 29:56Shaan Puri?

  Pretty successful, sounds like.

• 29:58Sam Parr?

  These gorilla things I love, by the way. I love these like gorilla.

• 30:01Shaan Puri?

  Gorilla dating.

• 30:03Sam Parr?

  Yes.

• 30:03Shaan Puri?

  So here's another one. Date me docs. Have you, have you heard about this trend?

• 30:07Sam Parr?

  So it's date me dot directory. Is that the URL?

• 30:11Shaan Puri?

  Well, that's the, that's the directory of them, but date me docs is like, basically you take, instead of going on a dating app, you create a Google doc and you just write in long form, all about you, your story, what you want, who you are, what you're into, what you're not into, where your boundaries are, all that stuff. You just make a very detailed Google doc and that's your profile. And then somebody created the directory. That links all the people like it's like an air table table. So it'd be like, you know, here's, you know, Christina, she's a female. She's interested in men. She's age 42 and it's, it's just literally an air table. And,

• 30:50Sam Parr?

  Dude, they're all poly. They, they put mono and poly. They're like, it looks like almost half of them are poly. Do you know what I mean? They want to have an open relationship or they're not serious?

• 31:00Shaan Puri?

  Kids these days. I think it's like, oh, I think they want to like be dating a bunch of people at once or something. I think that's

• 31:06Sam Parr?

  It's like half of them are poly. That's wild to me.

• 31:09Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, yeah. That's I think, um, you know, that's, that's something that's changed. I think since we were like, when I was dating 10, 10 years ago, I never met anybody who was like, yeah, I'm polyamorous.

• 31:23Sam Parr?

  No, it was like you see on a TV show.

• 31:25Shaan Puri?

  That came up. It was like,

• 31:27Sam Parr?

  Yeah, the only people who did that are like, are like, um, it's like a guy who's got like Ted Wives and it's on the TLC channel.

• 31:33Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it comes on after John and Kate plus eight.

• 31:35Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 31:37Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, this is, uh, I think that's new. So anyways, the, these docs, if you look at these, click, click into some of these docs.

• 31:43Sam Parr?

  They put photos and stuff and like a huge bio. This is wild.

• 31:47Shaan Puri?

  I click this one. Uh, that's by Misha. It's the fourth one down. So Misha is a male and it takes to, to a website that there's just like, it's like torches, like you're entering a dungeon. Probably not the vibe Misha that you want, but here we go. And then the title is just romance. I am currently single, looking for a primary partner. Hot. That's hot. How you said that primary partner like that. Um, only been in other relationships, just bought a house, blah, blah, blah. Uh, and then it's like, here's a bunch of my favorite blog posts. Here's some of my first dates. You can chat with me on Discord. Here's my Spotify. Here's some pictures of me, a bunch

• 32:28Shaan Puri?

  of pictures. Boom, boom, boom. All right. So that's, that's Misha. But like, one of the things I noticed, I clicked through a bunch of these is how intellectual all of these are. So they'll be like, You know, things you don't normally put on a dating profile, it'd be like, like, here's one, I'm on this woman's page, Shrida, she says, I'm not ideologically monogamous, meaning I don't think monogamy is innately superior to polyamory. I hold romantic feelings for more than one person at once, but also struggle with jealousy, blah, blah, blah. It's like, very, it's like, is this therapy? What is this? This is like a whole, like, open book style of letting somebody into your brain, which I can definitely see working

• 33:09Shaan Puri?

  for some people. And I can see it totally not working for a type, for the type of person who they don't want out. So I actually think this is a really great idea because I think it attracts in a lot of the same type of person, the kind of like, a little bit overly intellectual, very open minded type of crowd that would be attracted, you know, it's kind of tech, tech focused crowd here.

• 33:32Sam Parr?

  Oh, my gosh, this is wild.

• 33:34Shaan Puri?

  Sam is just smiling. Sam is just literally, he's looking at a screen and he's just smirking.

• 33:39Sam Parr?

  I'm looking at a lot of this. It's, there's one guy, he's got a 15 page user manual, and he like, documents his whole life to explain how to like, and he talks about like, ethical stuff. He's like, the correct answer to the trolley problem is to kill one person to save five. Like, he, like,

• 33:59Shaan Puri?

  There is a correct answer.

• 34:00Sam Parr?

  Like, this is wild. And on some regard, I'm like, well, if you're like a single woman who's like 30, and you're like, look, I just need to meet like, a competent man who's like thoughtful, I guess this is the way to go. Unfortunately, these aren't the type of guys that typically like can woo a woman.

• 34:18Shaan Puri?

  I'm on a doc right now, and it just, there's a whole subsection called child rearing plans. And then it's seven paragraphs of their plans for child rearing. This is pre-first date, which is kind of amazing.

• 34:31Sam Parr?

  So have you heard of, this reminds me of two things. One, if you, there's this guy named Christian Rutter, I think his name is, he founded OkCupid. He was one of the three or four co-founders. And he had a blog on all the data that OkCupid had. And so, and then eventually turned it into a book. And the thing was basically like, you say one thing, but your actions on our dating app say another thing. Like, you say you want X, Y, and Z. And I think one of the big takeaways was you say you want this, this, and this. You really just go after people's photos. So like you say, you don't wanna, you say you don't wanna smoker, but if they're hot enough, you'll, you'll go with a smoker. You say you don't want an animal lover, but if they like fit your, like your physical wants, you're gonna, you're gonna wanna be with them.

• 35:15Sam Parr?

  And like that always intrigued me. And that's why I don't think some of these like long form things will actually work. I think they want it to work, but it won't. The other thing is, have you heard about the league? Do you remember the dating app, the league?

• 35:25Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, she came on the pod once.

• 35:27Sam Parr?

  Yeah, her name is Amanda Bradford. She's a buddy of mine. She sold the league. You know, they sold the league?

• 35:33Shaan Puri?

  I didn't know they sold.

• 35:34Sam Parr?

  So they sold it? Yes, I believe it was a very good sale. They sold it to Match. I think match.com or one of the big ones. And I asked why they bought it. And she was like, well, basically, we only had like five or 10 employees or something at the league. It was a really small team. But the league originally, I don't know if it started out as the phrase Ivy League, but it was basically like high end to meet a high end partner. And you had to like apply and stuff like that. And she was like, one day I just said, I went to, she's a developer. And she goes, I logged into like our, our app store account. And I was like, we're charging 20 bucks a month right now. How high does the app store let me charge? Like, what's the highest amount for a subscription revenue?

• 36:15Sam Parr?

  And I think, I think it was like $99 a week. She's like, that's the highest. I go, fuck it. That's what we're gonna do. We're just gonna do $99 a week. And she was like, everyone at my company and everyone outside says it's not gonna work. She's like, it crushed it. We, our revenue went up like crazy. And one of the biggest reasons why Match bought us is they're like, we need to figure out how to sell products that are hundreds of dollars a month and no one knows how. And she's like, oh, I'll teach you how. All you do is you go to your, the app store and you just delete the number that you put in and you just put the higher number. And guess what? People are still gonna do it. And that was like, her thing was that it was a really, really expensive dating app and it totally worked for, for higher end people.

• 36:57Sam Parr?

  And so I still think that could be cool. What you and I didn't have when we were younger, when we were dating, we probably wouldn't have qualified then. And we are, and unfortunately, we're not, uh, we can't use it now. But basically, have you heard of Raya?

• 37:11Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it's like a celebrity. It's like you gotta be hot and famous to be in or something like that?

• 37:16Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I think they just look at your Instagram. Like if you're verified on Instagram, you're allowed to do it. So Raya is like, everyone who's single is like saying like, oh, of course, we know all about it. But Raya is cool. But I like these like exclusive dating apps and these expensive ones. I think it's way better. I've got friends that run Tinder competitors, and it sounds like a horrible business. It's one of the very few businesses where you can't be like number three or number four. Like there's basically number one and number two, and that's it. At least that's what it appears like if you're going for mass market.

• 37:43Shaan Puri?

  What's the quote? It's like, you know, I don't want to be a part of any club that will have me as a member. That's, that's sort of what you want when it comes to dating or cool things.

• 37:53Shaan Puri?

  You know, this date me docs thing, I think is a really fun idea. I'm glad, uh, whoever, I don't know who created this, but kind of, kind of like a cool, cool, cool idea. And obviously, like, things like this have been around for a long time, right? Like, Indian people famously, like, this is how my parents got married, for example. You write in the newspaper, like, your, your, they call it biodata. It's like your, your name, your age, your job, your whatever, and you just create this profile that's like text only. And people are like, cool, married, let's do it. And, um, you know, that's basically how things, how things work. So, you know, something like this actually can work. The funny thing is, um, this is actually, you know what I'm actually do? I'm actually just gonna recruit on here. I think this is a great recruiting

• 38:37Shaan Puri?

  platform. I think these people are probably all really smart, thoughtful individuals who are tech savvy, a lot of developers on here.

• 38:44Sam Parr?

  They put their GitHub profile.

• 38:46Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, fucking LinkedIn. I'm just, I'm scraping this for leads to hire from. This is amazing.

• 38:53Shaan Puri?

  Dude, this one guy on here says 16 years old. That's a trap, Jack. I'm not clicking that.

• 39:00Shaan Puri?

  I've seen way too many episodes of Chris Hansen. I'm not clicking that. I know where that shit straight to the FBI website, bro.

• 39:07Sam Parr?

  The next crazy year is, uh, come on in.

• 39:09Shaan Puri?

  Check yourself in to the full prison.

• 39:13Sam Parr?

  Yeah. Dude, my first, one of my first internet companies was called Bunk and the premise was we would put these ads, we would, uh, we put these ads.

• 39:21Shaan Puri?

  So close to the next Airbnb.

• 39:23Sam Parr?

  Well, it should have been Airbnb and it should have been just Tinder for Tinder. But it basically, the way it started was we would go and find online three and four bedroom apartments and we would like, if it was a four bedroom apartment for four grand, we would say, we have one bedroom available for $1,000. And we would get 500 people to apply. And then we would host a party and team up people to get that place as well as a bunch of other places. Cause we're like, oh, you guys are all looking for similar budgets, apparently. So just like come and team up and get your own apartment. And, uh, it worked. It worked quite well. And then a bunch of the people at the party started like hooking up with each other. And we didn't catch the clue that we should have just made this a dating thing. And then we launched this app. We called it Roommates and it was basically Tinder for Roommates.

• 40:06Sam Parr?

  And again, we didn't catch the clue that people like, I actually met a girl, two different girls on that app. Uh, that I ended up dating in 2013 or 14. And again, we didn't catch the clue. We should have just done this for dating. It would have worked a lot better.

• 40:21Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. The dating game is changing. You know, one thing that dating is always going to be a problem, like it will never not be a pain point for people like not. And there's no such thing as sort of like solving dating. And anytime one thing gets popular, it creates the need for another. So like, you know, Tinder created the need for something like Hinge. And now when you have sort of like Tinder and Hinge generation, I talked to people who are dating now and they're like, oh, you know what? The two worst things about those, like about Tinder and Hinge is like, you get either on Tinder, you just get bots, like basically it's just girls trying to get you to like, subscribe to their OnlyFans. Like, oh, this really hot girl matched with me and she's interested in me. She tells me to just click this link and then like follow the, oh man, this is just an upsell. Like this is a bot just upselling me basically.

• 41:05Shaan Puri?

  The other one is people that, um, Uh, like because like we were joking about the poly thing, but like people have a lot of different like, I don't know, preferences and kind of different situations. There's like a lot more configurations than like, I'm a boy who likes girls. I'm a boy who likes boys, right? Like that's kind of what we knew was like, you know, we were checkers, not chess when it came to dating, right? There was only so many moves you could make. You move forward and backwards. That was it. And so you're, you're red or black. That's, that's the game. Now it's like, you know, multicolored chess. And so the, the way that my friend was telling me, he's like, oh, there's this one app. I think it was called Field or something like that. Maybe I got that wrong, but I think it's called Field. And he's like, I like it because people just super straight up. It's like the culture

• 41:47Shaan Puri?

  on that app is you gotta be ultra direct. It's like, I am looking for, and you say the exact thing you're looking for, what you're into and what you're not into. So that like, people know, like, they're not gonna get, meet somebody. Oh, this person's really cool, but they want a completely different type of relationship configuration, gender configuration that I'm into. And so, uh, so I think, you know, there's, there's always a new need.

• 42:10Sam Parr?

  You know how when you and I do meetups and every once in a while a line will form to like, say hi. It's like, hey, how are you? Uh, I was joking with my friend and she's like, you know, that's what it feels like to be a hot chick all the time. Like, like, you know, like when you and I will have like an MFM meetup and we walk in and you'll see like, oh, people like are staring at us. Like this guy's giving me energy. Like he wants to like me to open, I'll turn my hips a little bit, let him like, and give him like the, the, you know, like, I'll, that's what it is. It's like wherever you put your junk. It's like, you'll be at a thing and you're like one on one with this other guy, but you feel this, it's all dudes. And you feel this other, you feel this other guy hovering. You're like, all right, I'll turn my hips a little so this guy could get in on the combo. And, uh, that's basically what it feels like to be like a, a six out of

• 42:54Sam Parr?

  10 woman, like all the time, or maybe even lower. Like just to be a woman all the time. It just, you just, whatever you want, it's yours.

• 43:01Shaan Puri?

  Dude, just last thing of this. Do you remember? Like when I was in college, the, the game was like, you would go to a bar or club or whatever. And literally it was like a physical version of Tinder. It was like, you just go, you, you guys just go behind the girl and just grind. And if the girl like accepts the grind, then, then you're in.

• 43:20Sam Parr?

  It's like National Geographic. It's like National Geographic, man. You're like a bird flexing its feathers.

• 43:26Shaan Puri?

  Craziest, that's the craziest thing that used to be normal. I don't know if that's still normal. That's the craziest thing that like I experienced in my life.

• 43:35Sam Parr?

  Did you do that? I've never did that. That was so uncomfortable.

• 43:39Shaan Puri?

  That was all anybody around me even knew, like.

• 43:42Sam Parr?

  Just get rug burn on your junk. Oh, no, not a chance. I was too uncomfortable for that. You had a question on here that I actually was thinking about the other day. You have a question on here and I, I originally thought I wrote this, but I guess you did where it's, what's an example of things today? That our grandkids in 50 years will think is absolutely insane. I've been thinking about this because on Tik Tok and Instagram, the kids now.

• 44:04Shaan Puri?

  Grinding is my example. Grinding at the club is my first example.

• 44:09Sam Parr?

  I don't know if they do that anymore or not, but.

• 44:11Shaan Puri?

  Didn't even take 50 years. It took me 15 and I already realized that was batshit crazy then.

• 44:15Sam Parr?

  Well, you'll see these videos and they'll be of high school. Uh, so like the kids now will be like, check this out. This is a home video of the class of 2008 in high school. And you like, see them walking around and like, you see like the, the, the stuff that we used to wear and you see like our razor flip phones. And then like the kids reminisce, like, I can't believe they did this, or that was so much better, or this was so much worse. You had a cool question on here about what do you think will be crazy?

• 44:40Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I think about this a lot. What are things that 50 years from now, like our grandkids will look at the way we live today? And be like, what the hell were you thinking? Right? Like, um, you know, there's past examples, like if you go way past, it's like slavery. Wow. I can't believe that was just like the way you guys did things or whatever, right? Like, you know, riding horseback, that's crazy. That's how people got around or just like people just dying of like everything, you know, like, uh, early on, uh, early age, like that's crazy. That was so risky to have a kid, like, you know, one out of what? Four or five kids would just die before they even hit 10. Like that's, that's really, really rough.

• 45:16Sam Parr?

  I was reading this Lewis and Clark book and whenever they get sick on the trail, they like give each other pills and they're like, we're just going to give you diarrhea and you're going to shit out the sickness. They call it a rush pill. They go, we're gonna give you these pills and you're gonna get tons of diarrhea and you're gonna be healed. And that was like the thing, it was just, we're just gonna make you poop a ton.

• 45:35Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, yeah. We did that with Four Loko. It was great.

• 45:39Shaan Puri?

  Changes shape. Alright, so you had, you wrote some on here of more recent history. So you said, driving to places without Google Maps. Yeah, I like, these are things that we experienced the before and after, right? Like, we're at that age where we experienced the paper map era, the asking people for directions era, just knowing how the interstate system of the United States works. Like, my dad just kinda knew roughly what you do to Google Maps.

• 46:03Sam Parr?

  Dude, I don't even know the highway. I live in Austin. I don't even know the highway, the big highway one mile away. I can't even tell you the name of it.

• 46:09Shaan Puri?

  Same. I don't even look up when I drive. I'm staring at the map. Go by feel. Alright, then you had landlines versus cell, like, landlines being the only way to contact someone versus cell phones. We both experienced that. You wrote unsafe cars. What did you mean by unsafe cars?

• 46:25Sam Parr?

  Dude, my first car was a 1992 Mazda Protege, and we bought it for, I got it for $900 from my mailman. And when you look at that, yeah, but I was

• 46:37Shaan Puri?

  You're like, I'll take it.

• 46:38Sam Parr?

  Well, sometimes we'd have to wear, we'd have to wear ties on, we'd have to wear ties to school every once in a while. And if like, my dad went to work too early and he wasn't there, my mailman would tie my tie. So like, I got to know the mailman a little bit. Kind of weird. Bought it from, bought my car for $900. And if you see that car to a new, brand new, like Honda Civic, if you ever watched the videos of them running into each other, it's insane. It's absolutely insane. Like, the safety, it's pretty wild how dangerous they are. So yeah, I think like these, like, when we look at cars, when I look at cars from like, the 80s and 90s, it's ridiculous how shitty they are.

• 47:14Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, that's crazy. So what are the ones that you think 50 years from now? So we got a couple on here. Let's just go back and forth. You do one, I'll do one.

• 47:21Sam Parr?

  The first one is having, and I've said this for a while, but having like, a growth on you, having something growing in your body that's gonna kill you, that you could have figured out had you just gotten some type of scan a year earlier. So I think that's gonna, we're gonna look back and like, dude, so you just had this thing in your body and you didn't even know?

• 47:40Shaan Puri?

  It'll be like, so how, how did you know? It's like, well, if you, if you would feel a lump, then you would just go to the doctors. Like, feel a lump? Yeah, like, if there was like, a golf ball in you, eh, that's new. Alright, let me go get it checked out. That's literally state of the art. I just described state of the art procedure.

• 47:57Sam Parr?

  And half the time you're like, yeah, fuck it'll go away. You know what I mean?

• 48:02Shaan Puri?

  It was that burger raid earlier.

• 48:04Sam Parr?

  Yeah, like go away. It's probably a life form. It'll go away. And so, yeah, I think that will be a thing. How about yours?

• 48:11Shaan Puri?

  Um, okay. Easy one. I'll start easy mode. Driving yourself. Like, it's pretty clear self-driving cars are like on the horizon. The idea that like, yeah, back in my day, we used to get a license when we were 16 years old. And then, yeah, I just used to drive. I used to just, we used to have a steering wheel in the car. And you just have to look where you're going. And all the other cars were also holding steering wheels, looking where they were going. We tried not to crash.

• 48:34Sam Parr?

  And if you're on a two lane road, it's 80 miles an hour, the opposite way with three feet of distance.

• 48:41Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, yeah. You just, well, they painted these lines. You just had to stay in the middle. And you said, keep awake and stay in the middle. Let's keep looking. And they'll be like, what? Like, that will sound completely barbaric, right? Like, um, and it's like, did people not crash? Yeah, they sure did. Did they die?

• 48:57Sam Parr?

  Leading cause of death.

• 49:00Shaan Puri?

  Some people get drunk before they did it. Like, it'll sound just like, what were you guys thinking? And it was like, well, we just didn't have the tech at the time. But like, when you have self-driving cars, cars are going to drive perfectly without you needing, there won't even be a steering wheel in the car. Cars will become like entertainment pods. You'll play video games or you'll sleep or you'll watch movies or you'll work. Like, cars will become a whole different thing very soon. And there's a clear before and after.

• 49:27Sam Parr?

  Another one is, so different diets. Like, we still debate. We're like, the Atkins diet, that's a thing. Oh, no, no, no. You want to do the other thing where you got to eat lots of carbs, you know, car, whole grains. That's, that's what you have to do. And to this day, like, we're, we're like, well, which one do you feel good on? I don't know. Like, just do whatever.

• 49:44Shaan Puri?

  I've alternated carnivore and vegan twice.

• 49:50Sam Parr?

  You are a vegan to your, you'll only consume vegans. It's just constantly changed and like, we don't know which one necessarily is better. You know, there's like really good arguments for both and we aren't sure. And I think that that's pretty insane that, uh, who knows, you know, I don't know.

• 50:06Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 50:06Sam Parr?

  By the way, have you ever, do you know a lot of doctors? Do you know how many classes they take on nutrition typically? It's like, uh, it's like a class, like they, they don't, doctors don't study nutrition, which is pretty insane. Uh, or at least like your average, like.

• 50:18Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Or exercise.

• 50:19Sam Parr?

  Yeah. Your average doctor doesn't exactly, it doesn't really know too much about exercise and nutrition. And so I think that that's like something we're going to be like, I don't know. You just kind of like tried a bunch of different stuff. And like you'd read, read a bunch of blog posts on it and listen to podcasts and like, you just kind of guessed a little bit.

• 50:35Shaan Puri?

  Right. I think eating meat, so killing animals to eat their meat. I think will be seen like a genocide, like a slavery. I think it will be seen as completely barbaric and immoral 50 years from now. When we have the alternative, there will be an alternative, which is basically lab grown meat or synthetic food. That will solve the kind of protein problems and taste, get the taste right, um, and the cost right. And at that, when that happens, as that shift happens, we'll just be like, yeah, people just, just take the thing and you slaughter it. You just kill it and then you eat it. And they'd be like, you do it yourself? Like, no, no, gross. I would never do that.

• 51:18Shaan Puri?

  They do it and then they package it and then we eat it. And they're like, what? Like, didn't you have a dog? It's like, yeah, I would never do that to a dog. It's like, but you would do it to this other animal? It's like, yeah. It's like, how did you guys decide? It's like, well, I guess I want cuteness or like, I don't know. I don't really know how we decided what was completely illegal and immoral and would get you canceled versus like. You eat it two times a day. Like, you know, the line is very thin between like cow and chicken and dog, right? Like, it's not that, it's not that clear why one, yes, versus the other, no. So I think that eating meat will become, will be seen as, as basically like our generations, we just committed genocide on animals.

• 51:59Sam Parr?

  I have 20 cows at my ranch. You knew that, right? That have cows out there?

• 52:02Shaan Puri?

  They're not yours, right? They're just stray? Or they're yours?

• 52:05Sam Parr?

  They're, my neighbor, they're, my neighbor owns them and they are allowed to use my land to graze. And I don't pay taxes because of that, or I pay less taxes. But basically, uh, you, I get to know them. So like, I know who they are. Like, I know which ones are which. I know whose mom is who. And like, it fucking sucked. Our first week there, that we bought the place, uh, like a four-month-year-old calf died. Or it was, but a four-month-year-old calf is still like 600 pounds or whatever it was. It was like a 600-pound baby. And apparently it like swallowed a golf ball. So my neighbor was like, hey, were you hitting golf balls? I was like, no, dude. I was like, I just, I just moved here. It wasn't me. I don't know.

• 52:45Shaan Puri?

  I saw you on Instagram. Balls at the new, the new ranch.

• 52:48Sam Parr?

  Yeah. And I was like, dude, once you get to know me, you'll, you'll, you'll understand. Neither of us are golfer. I'm not a golfer. You know what I mean? And so, and then I was like, hey, uh, Jeff, this guy was, I was like, what? Do I go and get like a shovel or something? He goes, oh, no, that son of a bitch is gonna be gone in three days. I was like, what do you mean? He goes, you'll see. And so I come back in three days and the whole body and carcass, everything was gone. The, all the animals, like the birds and hogs, they just ate it. It was completely gone. And the mother would go back to the spot where that calf was and would like mourn. And I was like, my heart was broken. I was like, I don't know if I can eat meat in the same way now. So I felt like devastated.

• 53:28Sam Parr?

  And so since then, I basically, I only eat red meat like once a month because the cows, like I get to know them and I'm like, I feel too sad. I can't do it. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not that manly of a man. I can't do it. But you, you, you think that child birthing manually is gonna be a thing of the past?

• 53:44Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, so when I was in LA, we had dinner with a person named Jessica Ma. You know who she is?

• 53:49Sam Parr?

  Yeah, she's, uh, she's very impressive.

• 53:51Shaan Puri?

  She's super impressive. I think she did a company called Indinero. I don't know her very well. She's at this dinner, but she was on the other side of the table, so I didn't get to know her too much. Uh, she seemed very interesting, like.

• 54:00Sam Parr?

  Indinero was like an accounting company that's still very successful, but I think it's so successful now that she just has tons of money and does more stuff.

• 54:06Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it's a big one. I think she's, she's out of that business now from what it sounded like. Um, and we were like, what do you do? And she's like, oh, I basically invest and incubate like, um, like hard science businesses.

• 54:18Sam Parr?

  And I think she's still only like 29.

• 54:21Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, yeah. It was, she was very, very impressive.

• 54:24Sam Parr?

  We should actually have her on.

• 54:25Shaan Puri?

  Sometimes you could just tell that people are playing a different game at a different level. So there's like,

• 54:29Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 54:30Shaan Puri?

  same game, different level, different game, same level. And then there's different game, different level. I would put her in different game, different level.

• 54:38Sam Parr?

  Yeah, you could talk to her. She's pretty brilliant. I'm.

• 54:40Shaan Puri?

  Within five minutes, you're like, oh, okay.

• 54:43Sam Parr?

  I think she was, I think her, she started Indinero, an accounting software company at 19.

• 54:48Shaan Puri?

  I don't know much about her, but she started her, I just went to her LinkedIn, by the way, uh, started her first six-figure business when she was in middle school.

• 54:56Sam Parr?

  Goddamn.

• 54:57Shaan Puri?

  Different game, different level. Again.

• 54:59Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 55:00Shaan Puri?

  I was, I was, I hadn't even grinded yet at that point.

• 55:09Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, that's crazy. Um, anyways, so she's, she's doing this thing. Um, one of the things we, so we were talking to her, but we were like, what are some of the crazy science things that you're funding? And then she would say things that were like, her, her thing was like novel, like she's trying to fund like a novel approach at like an existing thing. I don't, I don't want to butcher it, but something like that, which basically like what she called a bold, a bold, uh, bold science. So it's like basically like someone taking a new scientific approach at an existing problem. So she'll go to universities and she'll find research labs where they'll be like, this is the one researcher who's trying to do this thing, but this like completely other way than the general field is going. And she's like, cool, I want to fund that because those bold approaches, when they work, work in a really big way.

• 55:54Shaan Puri?

  And, um, So one of the things we talked about just somehow in the conversation came up was like

• 56:01Shaan Puri?

  like birthing a child is like the natural way or whatever, like, you know, woman carries baby nine months, goes to labor, delivers baby.

• 56:11Shaan Puri?

  You know, dad snips the umbilical cord, like that's the the process as we know it today.

• 56:16Sam Parr?

  Wait, the does the dad do it?

• 56:18Shaan Puri?

  They they hear like, Dad, you want to do it? You gotta be ready.

• 56:21Sam Parr?

  Is that what it would be offered? I'm not doing that.

• 56:24Shaan Puri?

  On them in the moment, they're like, Dad, come do this. And you're gonna be like, what? No, I'm good. I'm I'm holding her hand over here. I'm I'm busy and they'll be like, no, no, no, come, come, do it. And then you're gonna be like, oh, and you're gonna hold the thing and be like, I don't want to hurt this. This is gonna hurt. What is this?

• 56:41Sam Parr?

  I'm not doing that, man. I don't even want to, I won't even trim her toenails. I'm not gonna touch that.

• 56:48Sam Parr?

  I don't want to touch that thing. You're, did you do it?

• 56:51Shaan Puri?

  I did it, yeah.

• 56:52Sam Parr?

  Oh, man, I don't.

• 56:53Shaan Puri?

  The peer pressure of six doctors and your wife who just like did a modern miracle, did a like act of human bravery and courage. And then you're like, I don't feel comfortable doing this.

• 57:05Sam Parr?

  Dude, I am not doing that.

• 57:07Shaan Puri?

  Wimp of the year, like.

• 57:08Sam Parr?

  I've already told my wife, I think I'm gonna pass out. I'm taking a couple of Xanax's in in the room. I I this is on, no, that's too much for me, man. I don't know if I can do that. I'm I'm I'm not one of that guys. I'm not that guy. I don't think I can do that.

• 57:22Shaan Puri?

  Where my sister was uh give having giving having birth, giving birth, whatever.

• 57:27Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 57:29Shaan Puri?

  She he like yawned at some point. And she just turned and looked at him like, oh, are you tired?

• 57:37Shaan Puri?

  He was like, no, sorry.

• 57:39Sam Parr?

  No, just boring.

• 57:42Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it is honestly kind of boring. But yeah, anyways, yeah, you better be prepared, you're gonna have to do it.

• 57:50Shaan Puri?

  So anyways, birthing a child. So she was like, yeah, I think that's gonna be seen as like unnecessary, sort of barbaric. Not like as like scientifically sound as like eventually we'll be able to kind of like.

• 58:06Shaan Puri?

  And almost like incubate the baby um and just like deliver the baby through like essentially a machine that the a baby will be sort of like grown and delivered that way.

• 58:18Sam Parr?

  Have you met someone who's had a surrogate?

• 58:20Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, many people have had surrogate, yeah.

• 58:22Sam Parr?

  I have, and they've acknowledged that they don't feel they didn't love the kid the same as the other one.

• 58:29Shaan Puri?

  Really? Pretty, first of all, did you ask?

• 58:34Sam Parr?

  Of course I asked, of course, is that not the that's that's obviously the first thing you're gonna ask when you're about well, there's like a there's like a handful of questions. There's a handful of questions, which is A, like, obviously, how much does that cost?

• 58:48Shaan Puri?

  You're gonna run yet?

• 58:49Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 58:49Shaan Puri?

  One of their other women.

• 58:50Sam Parr?

  Yeah, where'd you find them? Uh, and then like, what did you do like, what was the relationship like? And then like, my fourth question is like, did they ever try to hold the baby hostage?

• 59:01Shaan Puri?

  Dude, I could still imagine you being the worst possible surrogate because you would micromanage their lifestyle. Like, hey, it's my baby in there. You better, you better, you better get up here on this treadmill right now.

• 59:13Sam Parr?

  The surrogate can basically hold you hostage, right? Because you'll do anything you'll do like, well, yeah, whatever you want. Like, I'm, I have to give you what you want because I will do anything for that kid. But then the last, the fifth question was like, all right, but like, did you love the kid as much as the other ones? And the answer was, at first, no, definitely not. I definitely didn't.

• 59:33Sam Parr?

  They got honest with me and I so I don't know if I believe this is gonna be a thing.

• 59:37Shaan Puri?

  Uh, but yeah, I feel like if there's the option, it's kind of like the epidural. Like, so I think when we were in the hospital, so my wife's insane and wants to only do natural birth and like feel all the pain for no reason. But she's like, you know, she's like, that's how I get down. I'm like, oh, wow, oh, my God. We are so, I guess opposites do attract.

• 1:00:01Shaan Puri?

  I've taken the life version of epidural to avoid pain.

• 1:00:04Sam Parr?

  You took the epidural.

• 1:00:10Sam Parr?

  Doc, I got your leftovers, I'll take it.

• 1:00:14Shaan Puri?

  We're not gonna waste that thing, you know?

• 1:00:16Sam Parr?

  You already opened it up?

• 1:00:19Shaan Puri?

  So, but the doctor had said 90% she's like 85 to 90% of the patients in their hospital do the epidural. Because like, you know, it makes sense like if you can. You know, not feel that level of pain. It's it's easy to see why somebody would choose that. So, um, you know, if you just sort of extrapolate from there, you're like, cool. Would you like to also not have the nine months of pregnancy like going on in your body? If there was that option, like you really think people wouldn't take it? I think people would take it.

• 1:00:48Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I think some people would, but I just don't, I don't know if it's.

• 1:00:51Shaan Puri?

  Look at the Ozempic thing, dude. If you give people the magic pill, the way out, like people take that shit, right? Like, if you get the cost right.

• 1:00:58Sam Parr?

  That's a good point. I do love.

• 1:00:59Shaan Puri?

  People are going to avoid pain, right? They're going to avoid discomfort and pain where they can. I order DoorDash three times a day. Like, you think that people aren't going to do this? They're gonna do this.

• 1:01:08Sam Parr?

  You're right, actually. I love magic pills. Whenever I hear someone who's selling like a magical cure or a magic pill, I'm I'm in.

• 1:01:16Shaan Puri?

  Probably won't work, but tell me everything.

• 1:01:20Sam Parr?

  Ozempic is a little bit of a magic pill. When I, when I was taking it, it was quite magical. Did you take it?

• 1:01:26Shaan Puri?

  No, no, I haven't taken it.

• 1:01:28Sam Parr?

  You should. It's awesome.

• 1:01:30Shaan Puri?

  I guess I'm also kind of crazy in that way where I'm like, well, then it wouldn't be as satisfying. Like, I want to do this on my own.

• 1:01:35Sam Parr?

  Yeah, yeah, but having abs is pretty sick, so.

• 1:01:39Shaan Puri?

  Totally.

• 1:01:43Shaan Puri?

  Two or three failed diets away from from breaking and going on Ozempic. All right, what else we got?

• 1:01:48Sam Parr?

  I want to tell you about this thing that when people read it, they probably didn't have the same reaction as I did, but I think they should. So there's this guy, it's called The Greatest Scam Ever Written, and it's about a copywriter who ran this scam. His name was Patrice Runner. And so it started basically in the 90s where he originally saw this ad. Have you ever heard of this book called The Lazy Man's Way to Riches?

• 1:02:14Shaan Puri?

  Yes.

• 1:02:15Sam Parr?

  So I don't remember when that originally came out. I think in the 60s, but The Lazy Man's Way to Riches is a really famous ad. It sold like three or four million copies of this book. And the ad is famous amongst copywriters because it was really successful. And a lot of the copywriting that we use now for the internet, they kind of originated from that ad. And this guy, Patrice Runner, he saw this ad and he was poor and he was like. I don't want to be poor anymore. It's pretty amazing that this guy just convinced me to buy this book based off of just like, you know, 20 paragraphs of text. That's amazing. I want to learn how to do that. And so he did. And so he starts studying copywriting and he reads a newspaper about this lady named like Madame Duval,

• 1:02:59Sam Parr?

  Maria Duval was her name. And basically there was a story about her and how there was a murder in the Caribbean and how they couldn't find where the body is. And she was a psychic and she led the people to where the body was. And I don't know if that's actually true, if she actually did that, but it was in the newspaper that that happened. And so he contacted her and was like, look, I want to create this psychic company and I want you to be the face and I'm going to give you 5% of profits forever. And you really don't even need to do anything other than like, let me use your face occasionally and that's it. So she signs up for it and he starts creating these ads where he would mail people these letters that looked like it was typed out and it was from Maria Duval.

• 1:03:43Sam Parr?

  And it would use these amazing like bits of copy. So like the thing would say like, the opening line was, if you've got a special bottle of bubbly that you've been saving for celebrating great news, now's the times, now is the time to open it up. And that would be like the opening line. And it was a nine-page letter that he would send to people and he would say like, you know, send me $40 or $50 and we will like, you'll have good luck. It was basically like you send money and you get nothing. And then eventually it was like, oh, you sent $40, we're going to keep sending you more letters. And they would send like two letters a day sometimes. So someone would oftentimes would receive two letters and they would send like an ad for some vitamin that you would need to take.

• 1:04:26Sam Parr?

  And recipients, basically it said, the recipients were urged to reply and enclose a check or money order for $50 to receive a mysterious bit of power and luck in order to attract money. And then also they would, after they sent them the money, they would get a document called a guide to my new life that included winning lottery numbers. And so this guy did this. And he did it for so well that he was making twenty million dollars a year doing this. And eventually, the thing ran for ten years and it made two hundred and fifty million dollars. And then the government swoops in and they're like, dude, this is fraud. And so now he's in jail and he's waiting sentencing.

• 1:05:08Sam Parr?

  But he might get up to life in prison. So like, he's looking at like, at least like twenty years of prison for this. And they were like, why'd you do this? He's like, I was just so attracted to copywriting. And with writing, he told a reporter, this is all from this, an article from called The Walrus. It was a great article and they show you like, what the ads look like, but we'll talk about that in a second. But he goes, with writing, you could get the attention of someone. And at the end, after just a few minutes, that person sends you a check to get a project, to get a product to an address or company that they've never heard of. And when I read stories like this, that should be the takeaway, which is not like this criminal is bad, but how do I use this amazing copywriting stuff actually for good? And if you click on the article, you'll see the envelopes

• 1:05:51Sam Parr?

  would have these amazing things like we're on the back of the envelope. It would say something like, after you've sealed this envelope, we will be the only one to have ever opened it. And it says, please leave the following blank. And it says, here's the day we received it. Here's the time that we received it. And the recipient, who's supposed to be Maria Duval, would have to check the box in order to like, say like, yep, I've opened it. And they put all these little like strange like tactics of getting someone's to convince them, believe what they were saying. It's incredibly fascinating. So it's called the the publication they did that an article on this guy, it's called The Walrus. It's really good because you should read this and think like, copywriting is amazing. This guy was a fraud, obviously. So that's bad.

• 1:06:34Sam Parr?

  But whatever he did, do that for good shit. And it's awesome. It's a really fascinating article about this guy. But yeah, now he's going to get sentenced to like, it looks like twenty years of prison. And you know who else did this? This great copywriter, great copywriter Gary Halbert. You remember Gary Halbert? So.

• 1:06:51Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, why did he go to jail? I didn't actually know it was tax, tax something?

• 1:06:54Sam Parr?

  Yeah, tax, I think tax and also basically he would sell this product. I think it was called a family.

• 1:07:03Sam Parr?

  Was it called a suit of arms? What's it called? A crest, like a family crest. He would sell this product where it's like you mail in like par and then you get mailed back. Like a crest. I don't know if it's like a graphic, but he just didn't fulfill the orders. He just took the money and like bounced. It was just like.

• 1:07:20Shaan Puri?

  So easy to do that too, to just give him a crest like.

• 1:07:24Sam Parr?

  Yeah, he just took the money.

• 1:07:26Shaan Puri?

  Fiver. He was just too early.

• 1:07:27Sam Parr?

  Yeah. And so he went to prison, I think for like 10 years. And that's where he wrote this really good book where it's like, he wrote letters to his son on copywriting. And that's called the letter from Boron. I guess Boron was the name of the prison that he was in. But these copywriters, it's really cool how you're able to pull this shit off. And you, by the way, people act like you can't do this anymore because people are smarter. That's not true. 100% can still pull off all this, but it's very fascinating.

• 1:07:53Shaan Puri?

  I'm with you. I think this is one way that we are very, very similar where we both read these things. I have the same sort of like

• 1:08:03Shaan Puri?

  unexpected reaction, which is some blend of like excitement and admiration, not for the crime, but for the tools that led to like, you know, it's the same way.

• 1:08:12Sam Parr?

  It took skill. It definitely took skill.

• 1:08:13Shaan Puri?

  Ocean's Eleven. It's like robbing a bank. I like, I like it. I like the, I like what goes in to rob in that bank. Right? Um, it's like, you shouldn't like the criminal in this case, but you are attracted to the skill, to the cleverness, to the, to the guile that goes into doing something like this.

• 1:08:29Sam Parr?

  Well, every guy who saw Leonardo DiCaprio in Wolf of Wall Street or Catch Me If You Can was like, hey, Bob, can I, can you give me one of your checks? I want to see if I can actually change the numbers on it. Like everyone, like, you know what I mean? Like everyone who saw that was do the same thing or like everyone looked up like, you know, Stratford, Oakmont, Jordan Belfort's thing after the Wolf of Wall Street movie, like everyone's attracted to it.

• 1:08:51Shaan Puri?

  Counting cards or whatever, right?

• 1:08:52Sam Parr?

  Right. They're like, oh, I could counting cards. How does that work? I could do that.

• 1:08:55Shaan Puri?

  You had a great bit of copy that I read on Facebook the other day. You go.

• 1:09:01Shaan Puri?

  The more shirtless pictures I I post, the more free protein I'm sent. Some ask me to, some ask to pay me to post. I've never done that and I don't intend to, but here's some brands that I use, blah, blah, blah. There you go.

• 1:09:14Shaan Puri?

  We may be whores in the par household, but we're certainly not.

• 1:09:24Shaan Puri?

  So good. Where did you get that?

• 1:09:26Sam Parr?

  I stole that from Ari Gold. So Ari Gold, that TV show Entourage. So every great copywriter does the same thing where you do this too. You hear phrases, you hear phrases and you store them and you just store them. And so every single person who's good at writing, you have a bank that you use. We call it a swipe file, but I remember even when I was in sixth grade watching Entourage at Sunday night at nine PM on HBO. I remember hearing that. I go, that's mine. I'm stealing that one.

• 1:09:56Sam Parr?

  And you just wait for that perfect opportunity to use those lines.

• 1:09:59Shaan Puri?

  Dude, I have my, my, it's literally called, you said, you said phrases. Literally my sheet is called, my note is called phrases. Um, and I just have so many good ones here. I love it.

• 1:10:10Sam Parr?

  Because what people don't know is like phrases are really important. So I'm working on this with Hampton, actually, where we're trying to create like our mantra or like with every type of community, it's basically a cult or sorority where you like, you need like a phrase that summarizes it.

• 1:10:23Shaan Puri?

  Need a crest.

• 1:10:24Sam Parr?

  You need a crest. I need a crest. Like I need something. And I've been like tinkering with phrases and it's so important to like nail a phrase. And like, there's so many like really good phrases. Like for example, I'm reading this book about Martin Luther King's assassination and he was assassinated, uh, while, while basically he was at this protest where garbage workers, black garbage workers were, uh, were, wanted to be treated better. And their phrase was just, I am, and it was underlined, I am a man. And like that, like that one phrase is let's treat me like a, you know, I'm not a, I'm not a slave anymore. I'm a man, treat me like a man. And so I was, I was like all these phrases and I just like, well, see a phrase, even that I remember writing that I am a man.

• 1:11:02Shaan Puri?

  We are mostly men.

• 1:11:09Sam Parr?

  That's too touchy of a subject. That's a whole nother thing. But anyway, I love these like beautiful phrases. I love these beautiful phrases. You gotta collect them.

• 1:11:17Shaan Puri?

  Are you workshopping a couple right now? You wanna do a little live workshop?

• 1:11:22Sam Parr?

  So one that has gotten shut down, but I love it, which is CTC, confidential, confidentiality, transparency, and commitment. So CTC. And it's just, you gotta see, so you miss one meeting, you're banned. We've actually kicked three people out already because we've heard that they've communicated with outsiders of like some confidential information. But CTC is what I'm trying to, which is what I'm trying to get stuck.

• 1:11:48Shaan Puri?

  Make a thing, yes.

• 1:11:49Sam Parr?

  It's not becoming a thing as of late, but yeah.

• 1:11:52Shaan Puri?

  What else you got?

• 1:11:53Sam Parr?

  Well, that's it. That's the only one that's.

• 1:11:57Shaan Puri?

  Hard at work over there in Hampton, I see.

• 1:11:58Sam Parr?

  Dude, it's hard.

• 1:12:01Shaan Puri?

  The creative process can't be rushed.

• 1:12:03Sam Parr?

  It's hard coming up with a phrase. Like, what are these phrases?

• 1:12:07Shaan Puri?

  What are some ones that you're inspired by? So you said the I am one. What are some other ones that you think are well done?

• 1:12:13Sam Parr?

  Well, this other one is, they're calling it core, which is like commitment, openness, respect, and one other thing. I don't know what the E stands for, but core. And core is not sticking with me, but I'm trying to be open minded. Core is not sticking with me because four things to remember is a lot harder than three.

• 1:12:29Shaan Puri?

  Values then. It's not like you're, it's like.

• 1:12:32Sam Parr?

  It's values.

• 1:12:33Shaan Puri?

  Yes, values. It's not like your slogan.

• 1:12:35Sam Parr?

  So one thing I've been thinking about is no one, nothing, no one, never. Where I was like, nothing, no one, never, never. Which is like, is this confidential? Nothing, no one, never, dude. Like, yes. Like, everything, everything. It's nothing, no one, never. You can never talk about what's going on. So I'm playing around with nothing, no one, never. I like that one.

• 1:12:55Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. That one, that one did a little something for me. I like that.

• 1:13:00Sam Parr?

  Yeah, did it get you going?

• 1:13:02Shaan Puri?

  It got me going a little bit.

• 1:13:04Sam Parr?

  What are some other interesting ones? There's not like that many that are intriguing to me, to be honest, but I'm trying to figure out like how to do it. It's really hard. Just creating that shit from scratch is way harder than it looks. Or I'm just not talented. But like, are there any good ones that you like?

• 1:13:18Shaan Puri?

  You know, the one thing I heard about, like on the value side that always stuck with me was a value is useless without acknowledging the trade off. So like, you know, most companies, when they do their kind of like values, they'll be like, respect, honor, integrity.

• 1:13:33Sam Parr?

  Which is stupid because like, what's the opposite?

• 1:13:36Shaan Puri?

  It's of course. Yeah, like you said, nothing that's of interest. You've acknowledged no like sacrifice in that. And it's just generic. And so it's not memorable. It's not memorable. It's not useful because it's like, um,

• 1:13:51Shaan Puri?

  it's just an of course type of statement. Whereas, uh, you know, Facebook did one that that stuck, which was move fast and break things.

• 1:13:57Sam Parr?

  It's beautiful.

• 1:13:59Shaan Puri?

  And move fast and break things was so good. And the reason why was because it acknowledged the downside of moving fast. Sometimes you're gonna break shit. And like, they said, yeah, yes, we take that. We will, we'll err on the side of that. Well, we will take that trade off. And so, um, I think that values are only useful when you acknowledge,

• 1:14:21Shaan Puri?

  when you, when they bake into it, the opinionated trade off, right? Like the fact that, yep, there, there are pros and cons to this. And our opinion is that this is the pro that matters. Right? Um, and, and that we're down, we, we will live with this downside because that, because that's what shows you what you value. Like, for example, um, if you're somebody who's really high integrity,

• 1:14:46Shaan Puri?

  you're gonna, um, you're gonna, let's say there's, you know, an opportunity to take, you're gonna not take, you're gonna have to sacrifice things that could go your way because you're high integrity. This is like Michelle Obama had one that, that kind of was.

• 1:15:00Sam Parr?

  Yes, it's gotta, it's gotta be like painfully truthful.

• 1:15:03Shaan Puri?

  Painfully true. Exactly. So she did the, when they go low, we go high. Which is like, kind of acknowledges that like you all, they go low, it hurts. You want to hit them back, but no, we go high. Right? When they go low, we go high. That's another example of one that's like, I like, I don't know when she said that, but that's like more than five years ago. I still remember that. A lot of people repeated that. Kind of like to make fun of her, but it was politics. People make fun of everything. But like, I do think there was something in that that was like, more real than just like, we stand for respect. It's like, okay, cool. Doesn't mean anything to anybody when you say that. It's like, we're all numb to those sorts of things. Like Subway, eat fresh. And we print grill marks onto our chicken because it's not really grilled. Like, you know, it's like, all right, well, that's what they should really say.

• 1:15:49Shaan Puri?

  Looks fresh, but it ain't.

• 1:15:52Sam Parr?

  We, uh, my high school had a great one that I've always remembered. It was meant, we were in all boys school and it was meant for others. And they just did such a good job of like nailing that into our brains. Just you gotta be a man for others. There's like,

• 1:16:04Shaan Puri?

  That could be a dating app, too.

• 1:16:06Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:10Sam Parr?

  You're right.

• 1:16:13Sam Parr?

  So I remember meant for others. I like that, but it's been really challenging. So I guess I gotta go find some more phrases. But, but, uh, yeah, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta make that better. Do you have any that you use for any of your companies? None of your, was, what was Milk Road? Did Milk Road have one?

• 1:16:29Shaan Puri?

  No, but, uh,

• 1:16:30Sam Parr?

  I don't think you need one at the beginning, by the way.

• 1:16:32Shaan Puri?

  At the beginning, I don't think you need, I, I think you do need certain North Stars, like, you know, when you started the hustle, you were like,

• 1:16:40Sam Parr?

  We call it bull bullshit free news.

• 1:16:42Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. You were like, this is like your no nonsense or no bullshit, your, your, your smart friend telling you what happened in a no bullshit way. That was a really good, like North Star guiding principle that you could just say, okay, cool. So like we stole a version of that for the Milk Road because what would, what ended up happening, here's like a tactical way that that started to drift. The top story in all the news, news things would have been about like some arbitrary bullshit, like some, maybe it was like a regulatory thing, or maybe it was like a kind of a boring regulatory thing, or it was like some layer two blockchain on, uh, on like some layer two protocol on top of some like obscure blockchain did this thing.

• 1:17:25Shaan Puri?

  And we would write about it and I would read it. Cause at this point I was like, you know, I was like the editor, I really never was the writer for Milk Road. Uh, but I would read it and I would just call Ben and I'd be like, dude, what, like, are you interested in this? He's like, well, not really, but I mean, it seemed to be like, I mean, it's the top story. By other news outlets. I was like, cool. But like, if you weren't into it, like, I was like, here's the test. Would you text me about this? Like, would you text me and tell me about this? And would I be interested? But this is already baked into, you wouldn't even text me if you didn't know, if you, you would only text me if you knew I'd be interested. So I was like, let's just use that as the test, like the litmus test is basically, would you text me about this thing that happened? If I was like, yeah, what's new in crypto right now?

• 1:18:07Shaan Puri?

  Like, if that's not the thing, then don't put it in the newsletter, even if other people are writing about it. And when we made that shift, all of the like, metrics kind of went up because people just naturally would resonate with that better because we had like a guiding principle for what, what goes in and what goes out. And I think that's the other thing that goes, that's really useful is it's really easy to talk about what goes in. What's important is to say what goes out. And I do this with like, strategy planning documents too. Like if I, like I wrote up a strategy for our econ business. I think everybody should do something like this, by the way. I wrote it down. I wrote, here's the six bets that we have made this year. We're making this year. And I write them down. First, for example, I wrote the things called big bets and I shared this document with everyone.

• 1:18:51Shaan Puri?

  I said, big bet number one was, we didn't have anybody in like, demand planning or inventory forecasting. I was like, it's pretty stupid that we don't have anybody, anybody doing this because of that. I think we have a ton of waste and we're missed, like sometimes we're way under on products that people want. Sometimes we're way over and it just sits there and just ties up our cash. I think that if we hire somebody who's got experience doing this, we will get 20, 30% improvement on the bottom line, literally just from that one hire. That's bet number one. And then we hired that person that we're seeing how it plays out. That number two was like,

• 1:19:25Sam Parr?

  That's smart.

• 1:19:26Shaan Puri?

  Let's say like, whatever, without giving too much away, let me say,

• 1:19:33Shaan Puri?

  Like this, this type of partnership, we're trying to go for this type of partnership.

• 1:19:39Shaan Puri?

  With this other big entity, we believe that if we do that, it's going to have this effect. That's the bet we're making. We'll know if it's successful if X happens. I just wrote that, wrote this down. And so the whole strategy, company strategy for the year is one page long. And it's just six, like sentences. It's like, here's the situation, here's the bet. Here's the situation, here's the bet. And I just wrote that out. And then with that, at the bottom, I wrote, and here's the bets we are not making that we otherwise reasonably could have. So for example, we're not launching on Amazon because if you're, because even though that would clearly add to the bottom line. But if we're launching on Amazon, that's going to take resources away. And see those other six bets, that's going to take all of our attention this year. So we're saying no to that. We're saying no to this other thing. We're saying no to this other thing.

• 1:20:25Shaan Puri?

  All of which were totally reasonable, you could make a case for, but we decided not to do them because we don't want to spread ourselves too thin. And it was actually that not doing section, like the first part was useful. But the second part was even more useful. And I think that people should, should highlight those like, you know, it's not focus is not what you say yes to focus is the hundred good ideas you say no to. And so I think when you take that principle and you apply it, that, that's where you find the interesting stuff. Like whether it's your company, marketing, or whatever.

• 1:20:54Sam Parr?

  What, what are you, what are you calling that? An e-commerce playbook?

• 1:20:58Shaan Puri?

  Oh, I just like the bets, like big bets, what I call it, like one of the big bets that we're making this year. And we'll see, and I wrote it, I also wrote the top, like, we don't think that all of these are going to pan out the way we expect.

• 1:21:09Sam Parr?

  Are they? What do you?

• 1:21:11Shaan Puri?

  I wrote one or two are going to either fail or we won't even execute on because one or two winners will suck up a bunch of our energy. I expect that to happen. I expect the middle four to work. Maybe, you know, plus or minus 20% on how well we think they should work. So like some will slightly underperform our expectations, some will slightly overperform. One, one or two of the six bets will either fail completely, or we won't execute well enough because our attention got sucked away by the other ones. And one or two should have a huge payoff. That's the distribution. If we, if they all just work as expected, we didn't really bet wildly enough, right? It's like, kind of like the goals thing that you don't want to hit 100% of your goals. You want to hit maybe like 70% of your goals. That shows that you stretched far enough without overstretching.

• 1:21:56Shaan Puri?

  All right, we're out of here. Sam, hit them with the line.

• 1:21:59Sam Parr?

  That is the pod.

• 1:22:04Speaker 03

  I feel like I could rule the world, I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like no days off. On the road, let's travel, never looking back.