Business of Trend Forecasting, Pickleball, And The Lucrative Virtual Gaming World

Episode 407: Shaan Puri (@ShaanVP) and Sam Parr (@TheSamParr) talk about expanding the business of tracking trends, the explosion of pickleball popularity, and lucrative online gaming. Want to see more MFM? Subscribe to the MFM YouTube channel here. ----- Links: * Exploding Topics * Meet Glimpse * WGSN * GLG * Eureka Surveys * The Dink * Virtual Gaming World * Do you love MFM and want to see Sam and Shaan's smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. * Want more insights like MFM? Check out Shaan's newsletter. ------ Show Notes: (06:10) - What it takes to be big on YouTube (10:50) - Forecasting Businesses (20:55) - Pickleball (38:10) - Tom Dundon (44:00) - Virtual Gaming World ----- Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. ----- Additional episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto * #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sam Parr?

  But I actually think there's an interesting business where you can look at anything that someone is having to spend a substantial sum today for something that's going to happen in 12 or 36 months and you help them guess the right prediction. You can build an interesting business and I'm going to give you an example.

• 0:27Shaan Puri?

  Okay, so let's do it. What topics you got today?

• 0:30Sam Parr?

  All right, I've got one idea based on something you sent me.

• 0:33Shaan Puri?

  Oh, wow. We're rich.

• 0:35Sam Parr?

  Yeah, but you.

• 0:37Shaan Puri?

  Thanks, Sam, for having one idea based on something I sent you. You sound like you really put in the work today.

• 0:43Sam Parr?

  Look, I'm in the final interview stage for my new researcher. But you told me last time you had a lot and just hear me out. So you sent me this thing called exploding topics, right?

• 0:54Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 0:55Sam Parr?

  And you said the traffic's killing it and exploding topics, do you want to explain what it is?

• 1:00Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it's basically like a, if you go to the website, you'll see a series of charts and the charts are basically saying, hey, this, um, this thing, this trend is, is growing in, um, in popularity.

• 1:14Sam Parr?

  I think it started by which keywords were growing in popularity because Brian Dean, who owned Backlinko, a popular SEO blog, got involved with it and then it kind of changed to what it is now.

• 1:24Shaan Puri?

  Okay, yeah, so I didn't know what the underlying, what are they looking at to tell you what's trending or not? But they'll be like, um, you know, hey, there's this thing called Power Dash. It's a vacuum cleaner for pet owners. It's grown 3,000% right now, right? And there, but you know, the volume of that, of that search is 320, so not, not huge. Regenerative agriculture, right? Uh, growing 658% with 12,000 searches. And you can look at that and you'd be like, huh, that's cool. I'm interested in that topic. Maybe there's something I could do here. So I think it's similar to what trends was, which was, I will tell you about things that are getting more popular before they're fully popular in order for you to take advantage of them with content, business, that sort of thing, right? That's the idea.

• 2:06Sam Parr?

  Yes, and the people wondering trends. So basically, I used to own, I sold it. I used to own this thing called trends.co. And it was a weekly email and an online community that people would pay $300 a year for. And we got it. I forget what it was when I sold it, but I think it was at like six million a year, but it very easily could have been like a million a month or so in revenue. But basically, we would send a weekly email and we had three or two researchers and they would comb the web. If I have interesting things and they would write interesting reports and they would also include one to two graphics that showed like here's based off of Reddit searches or based off of Google searches or based off of like 20 different data points. This topic is growing quickly. Anyway,

• 2:47Sam Parr?

  what Exploding Topics is doing, there's another company called MeatGlimpse. So I think it's meatglimpse.co or .com. I don't know. And this is just called trends forecasting and these versions of it, including my version, they're what I would call prosumer. So people who just want to spend 10 to 300 dollars a month on it. They're not that big of a deal. But there's this whole other industry of people willing to spend 25, 100,000, 10 million a year, all on trends, trend forecasting. And I think it's a very interesting business model and I think it's a very underdeveloped industry. And so the one that I brought up a whole bunch is called WGSN.

• 3:27Sam Parr?

  WGSN, it's basically a monthly report that comes out and it helps people pick which colors are going to be popular. Which sounds trivial, but that's a really big deal. If you're Starbucks and you gotta go and buy 10 million name tags or something like that and you want to make sure that you've got like a good color that is like hit. Or for example, WGSN, do you remember Sean, how pineapple was popular? They helped predict that pineapple, the logo is going to be popular. Their next one, I think is the lemon. I think they said lemon is going to be popular. Maybe you told me that actually. And so anyway, that's what this does. But I actually think there's an interesting business where you can look at anything that someone is having to spend a substantial sum today for something that's going to happen in 12 or 36 months.

• 4:10Sam Parr?

  And you help them guess the right prediction. You can build an interesting business. And I'm going to give you an example. And let's just say that it's like HR or like work styles. So what do we think we're going to predict? The work, the, the, the, this particular age group, what are they going to want for working from home in the next 36 months? And if you're Google or someone that employs 10,000 of these workers, you're like, all right, I kind of need an idea because we're going to be making X policy. We want to know how they're going to react. The way it could work, and this is the way WGSN, and this is the way trends and a few other things work, is you do a combination of surveys. So you survey, like you need a pool of like a thousand or 10,000 people you can survey and get intel from and make predictions.

• 4:52Sam Parr?

  Then you look at like different data. So like you look at sentiment, you look at like what people on Reddit, on Tik Tok are saying, just what trends are saying. And you consolidate in that, that into a fairly easy to understand 1,000 to 2,000 word email that you send out monthly. And then you have a consultant on staff who you can call on a regular basis to be like, hey, we're thinking about doing X based off your research. Is that a wise decision? And then you have monthly calls as well as a community and a conference. And I think you could wrap this up and do it in most any industry and have something that you could charge 20 to $50,000 a year for. And this is something that, uh, what's his name? What's the bald head guy who I like Scott Galloway? He did this with, uh, he did a little bit like this with his company that he sold for $300 million. What was it called? It was called, uh, L2.

• 5:38Sam Parr?

  But anyway, this is my model that I think not enough people know about and take advantage of that I think could be pretty big.

• 5:44Shaan Puri?

  And I wish you had let me guess which bald guy you like. That could have been, that we could have gone on for a couple of hours on that one. So many that could have been the answer.

• 5:53Sam Parr?

  Yeah. Stone Cold Steve Austin.

• 6:00Shaan Puri?

  What, uh, so what would you do? So you, what was your, what was your idea here of like how you would create kind of like a trend as prediction type business?

• 6:09Sam Parr?

  What I would do is I would, I would package my product in the way that I explain. But I think that most industries that you work in, you can figure out some type of thing where you can look at your, the buyers of your company and be like, or look at any, any different roles in your company and be like, hey, everyone, um, can I just talk to you and like, figure out like, what decisions are you making? That's going to impact us in like two years. And what type of data do you wish that you had today that would make your decision easier?

• 6:36Shaan Puri?

  And I'm sure this exists, but one version of this I could think of that's pretty valuable would be if I could. Poll like, hey, I, you know, we got a, we're able to survey every, you know, CIO in the Fortune 500. And, you know, we surveyed 70% of the CIOs in the Fortune 500. Here's what they're thinking in terms of their software budget for next year. Or here's what they're thinking in terms of, you know, whether they, you know, we, HR people at the, at the, you know, top thousand companies. Here's what they're thinking in terms of remote pay, or here's what they're thinking in terms of the XYZ.

• 7:14Shaan Puri?

  And I think if it's sort of like what GLG is, uh, where GLG is expert network and people will pay people like you and me. $2,000 for a one hour call because they're making investment decisions and they need to do research and they need actual industry input to say, hey, what's the deal with this? I'm not an expert at this, you are, but I need to make a $10 million bet. And so as part of my research and diligence, I'm going to pay, you know, you and 10 other people like you, $2,000 an hour, 20 grand, no problem. That's a, that, that helps me make the right directional bet here. And so I think rather than GLG being a one-way thing, um, I think you could do it as a, as a, you know,

• 7:57Shaan Puri?

  kind of like pulse survey to as long as you had the right key, key audience that was bought in. Now, how do you get them to actually answer this? I think you could, A, just do it as part of a broader like media thing. Like if you already have an, a newsletter for HR people or whatever, you could do it like industry dive could do this. I also think you could pay them. And so I think there's some, some version of payment and rewards that that could go with this because you're probably charging a lot of money, thousands of dollars for these reports.

• 8:25Shaan Puri?

  But there is another business I want to tell you from a listener here.

• 8:28Sam Parr?

  What's it do?

• 8:28Shaan Puri?

  Called Eureka surveys. So Google.

• 8:31Sam Parr?

  Yes. Yeah. The bootstrap company.

• 8:34Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. So these guys, if you go to Eureka surveys.

• 8:36Sam Parr?

  Out of Utah, right?

• 8:37Shaan Puri?

  It just says get paid for taking surveys, right? Make money online. Here's how you do it. And it's like, these are the small, small time version of it. So basically you go, you download their app. Um, let me pull it up.

• 8:49Sam Parr?

  Did he say, did he say we could say their revenue? He told me, but I don't remember.

• 8:53Shaan Puri?

  He told me once, I think we should just say it maybe generically, but like, you know, seven figures in revenue bootstrapped off this, um, off this product idea. And, you know, kind of amazing, uh, kind of amazing that they are, um, doing so well. And I, and I think that this is like a really great business. He acquires, I think in his case, I think he's going for kind of younger audience, sort of like, you know, Gen Z, millennial, college students, maybe stay at home moms, like, you know, more of the average, average Joe type of consumer and able to survey them. And they offer gift cards in return, like the brands who want to run the surveys offer gift cards. And it's a great way to, um, it's a great way to, you know, get insight, you know, quickly.

• 9:37Shaan Puri?

  Like for me, if I have a brand, right? I have a brand, I want to run a survey like this. That's pretty, that's like pretty, um, time intensive for me to go do. So I would need to go to a service like this if I want to get an answer.

• 9:51Sam Parr?

  Well, so that's my idea for, for trends forecasting. I think this survey one's interesting. There's a lot of competition in that space, but I still think it's interesting. But that's like a simple, this is like a very simple, straightforward thing. It's a lot of work, but huge business, I think. All right, what do you got?

• 10:08Shaan Puri?

  Okay, so I'm going to tell you, um, a couple of names. I'm going to throw a couple of names out at you. You just try to tell me the pattern.

• 10:19Shaan Puri?

  Leonardo DiCaprio, Kevin Durant, Ellen DeGeneres, Luka Doncic, George Clooney.

• 10:30Shaan Puri?

  You might be thinking movies, you might be thinking sports and maybe celebrity investing. Where am I going with this? No, they all play pickleball. Pickleball is this crazy, crazy thing that is exploding. It's not going to be new to most people here, but I'm just sort of late to the party. I played for the first time the other day when we did our kind of weekend getaway for founders thing. And we played, it's a lot of fun. And I was like, I get it. I totally get why you guys haven't.

• 10:59Sam Parr?

  It took you that long?

• 11:00Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I, I don't leave the house. So it's not an in my house activity. So therefore this is the first time I got exposed to it, right? Like. You know, like I'm those people that that like, you know, came out there like COVID? What? They don't know what's going on. Um, that's what happened to me with pickleball. And so I started looking into it and I think there's something. I think there's a bunch of little interesting things. I want to hear kind of what you you find interesting in this, but I'm going to throw some stats at you. So my, my, my overall take is pickleball is exploding.

• 11:32Shaan Puri?

  Here's some opportunities I see, and I think it's going to be huge. It already is getting huge, but I don't think, uh, but I see some potential traps and I'll tell you what those are. Okay. So first of all, guess how many people in America? This is a tough one. Guess how many people in America played pickleball in the last year?

• 11:51Sam Parr?

  Twenty, uh, no, uh, uh, five million.

• 11:57Shaan Puri?

  Good guess. Thirty six million. So thirty six million is a crazy number, right? That's, um, twice as many people as go to like Disneyland every year. It is, that's the population of California, right? So thirty six million is a kind of crazy number, right? That's like fourteen percent of the, of the total population. And, um, and you can see this trend growing, right? So like it went from five to thirty six. That was in a one year jump. You can see on Google Trends, it's just up into the right line. You have celebrities, like I said earlier, billionaires buying teams, leagues, that sort of thing. I personally know two people who have built multimillion dollar brands in this space. I'm going to tell you about them. So one, one guy, I can't say his name, but he built a Amazon FBA store.

• 12:43Shaan Puri?

  And this was two or three years ago, he sold it. So he actually sold way too early. At the time I met him, I was like, oh, great. You, you built a store doing what? I've never even heard of this sport. And he was like, yeah, I just got into it. You know, got really into it. And so I just thought, oh, let me just see if there's much competition on Amazon for this. There wasn't. So I built a popular FBA store and sold it for about eight to 10 million. And so the guy sells it for eight to 10 million dollars. And I was like, wow, you know, you know, highway robbery. You know, tell that guy to lose your number and now that he owns, he'd already spent eight million dollars on this. You know, pickle what? You know, what the hell is this?

• 13:26Shaan Puri?

  I bet you if you had that thing now, that'd be a $40 billion brand. Like this thing has exploded in popularity. Whoever bought it knew what they were doing. The second is there's a guy doing a newsletter called The Dink. So he's doing the hustle or Milk Road for pickleball. And we talked to him and we were like, we talked to him.

• 13:44Sam Parr?

  How do you spell it? Oh, I see it.

• 13:45Shaan Puri?

  The Dink, like D I N K.

• 13:48Shaan Puri?

  And a cool guy, he's doing a bunch of really smart things on the growth and kind of like content side. And he was making more money per reader than we were making on Milk Road.

• 14:00Shaan Puri?

  We're in the crypto like finance niche and he was making more money per reader in pickleball than than we were because he was A, he's executing well. And B, like turns out you there's like, you know, there's a lot of people who want to advertise and people who want to buy stuff. And there weren't really very many mediums for them to meet each other. And this newsletter was, uh, was that so this guy was, yeah, I think this newsletter is probably worth three, three million, $4 million today.

• 14:28Shaan Puri?

  So two people I personally know that have done this. Okay. And I got a couple of ideas here on, I want to talk about why this works. Where this is going and also just some of the interesting characters that are involved here. You've played, I assume you've played.

• 14:45Sam Parr?

  Yeah, but hold on before we, I'm looking stuff up while you're talking. I've got a few I told you so's that I want to bring up. I was, I was looking this up as you were talking. Episode number 147, this aired January 19th, 2021. So almost exactly two years ago. Let's go to the listener notes. It says, uh, Sam brings up pickleball, a booming sport in Austin. And it talks about all the opportunities there, why he thinks it's going to be big.

• 15:15Shaan Puri?

  Sean brushes it off, says stupid, never going anywhere.

• 15:19Sam Parr?

  Sean gives Sam wedgie, tells him to F off.

• 15:23Sam Parr?

  Then you talked about Dink. I was like, that sounds familiar. So I wish I could, can I share my screen right now? I don't, I won't share my screen, actually. I look up Dink founder. It's a guy named Thomas Shields. I Google Thomas Shields Twitter. I go to his Twitter. I click his DMs and there's an unread message that he sent me in September 18th, 2020. Hey, Sam, Thomas here. Nice to meet you. I, and he sent me a video on YouTube where it's a custom video of him talking to the camera saying, hey, Sam. And he's explaining to me about this newsletter that he wants to start and he wants to know if I want to participate in it or something like that. This is the first time I've seen this video, by the way.

• 16:04Sam Parr?

  I, I've not even, I'm watching it for the first time ever. So I was, I take full credit for telling you about pickleball. I take not full credit, but it is cool that this guy hollered at me and this is for three years later and he's absolutely doing what he said he was gonna do. So

• 16:21Shaan Puri?

  Man, he responded to the personal video, huh?

• 16:23Sam Parr?

  I, well, this is an unread Twitter message. I never saw it. But, but anyway, that, so that's my, that's my story before we, huh? I, yeah. Well, I remember seeing it, but

• 16:36Shaan Puri?

  Twitter's actually great because you can open up a message.

• 16:39Sam Parr?

  And they don't know.

• 16:40Shaan Puri?

  And they don't know until you hit accept and you can read the whole message. And so people are like, hey, you never saw it. I'm like, yeah, never saw.

• 16:48Sam Parr?

  So anyway, that's my story. So you were asking me, have I played pickleball, pickleball before? And my, my response to that is, does Dolly Parton sleep on her back? Yes, I've played pickleball before, dude. Of course I have. Have you seen me? Have you looked at me? I'm a, I'm a tall, white guy from the Midwest. Of course I played pickleball. Do I like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches?

• 17:10Shaan Puri?

  Sure do. Am I taking a swing of a, of an old school Coca-Cola classic right now? Sure.

• 17:17Sam Parr?

  Yeah. Yeah. You ever had orange soda? Of course.

• 17:21Shaan Puri?

  Do you know how pickleball started, by the way?

• 17:24Sam Parr?

  Old people. It was like a senator or something, right?

• 17:26Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, dude, you know your shit. This is crazy. That's crazy that you know that.

• 17:32Shaan Puri?

  It was a congressman. It was a bored congressman who created this. It was 1965. It was in the like the Pacific Northwest. And they get back from some trip, him and his buddy. They have nothing to do. They're at this house. They have nothing to do. They're bored. The house has a badminton court. They're like, great, let's go play some badminton, I guess. They go down there. There's no equipment for badminton. They're like, oh, fuck. What are we gonna do? So they're like, well, we got ping pong inside, but we kind of be on it. I kind of want to be outside. So they take the ping pong paddles, a wiffle ball, and they go to the badminton court and they start inventing this game. And they're just bored and they invent this game and they're like, they call it pickleball because I guess there's this phrase called pickle boat,

• 18:13Shaan Puri?

  which is like a hastily assembled crew for a boat. And they're like, oh, it was a mashup of, we just grabbed the paddles and played badminton and lowered the nets. Like this mashup thing. We'll call it pickleball. And so they create this thing. It's like, you know, just a small regional game. Nobody's really playing it. And somehow, I couldn't figure out the link, but like, somehow about the last five years, this thing has gone like very, very mainstream. To where now there are professional leagues. There are, you know, tons of celebrities own teams that there are people are buying. Gary Vee is buying a team. Kevin Durant's buying a team. Tom Brady is buying a team. Patrick Mahomes is buying a team. These teams cost a million dollars now.

• 18:55Shaan Puri?

  There are billionaires that are trying to buy leagues and merging the leagues to try to make this like an official thing. It has become kind of real and there's people are trying to create like Top Golf for pickleball. So there's a place called Chicken and Pickle and Camp Pickle that's trying to like basically create venues where you can come, drink, eat and play pickleball. And so there's like this, you know, mini gold rush that's happening right now in the world, in the world of pickleball. And I started thinking, okay, where do I think this goes? Cause I've seen this now a couple of times. I've seen this with MMA. Right, going from super fringe to more mainstream esports. Um, and even some other things like the drone racing league. You ever seen the drone racing league?

• 19:39Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I don't quite. Yeah, that one hasn't picked up like I thought it was going to, but maybe it will.

• 19:45Shaan Puri?

  Same, same. Um, and so you see these happen and you sort of think, okay, what does it take to make these work? And I'll give you, I'll give you what I think pickleball has going for it. And then I'll tell you what I think is going to be tough for it. So here's what it has going for it.

• 19:58Sam Parr?

  By the way, we had a writer at, a freelancer at the hustle who quit for a year. And she became, uh, she wanted to compete in pickleball and she did, and she started traveling to competitions. Yeah, like, it's like an intense thing. People love it.

• 20:11Shaan Puri?

  What did you say to her when she told you what she was planning here?

• 20:16Sam Parr?

  What do you think I said? I said, that's awesome. So that's a great.

• 20:18Shaan Puri?

  It's awesome. Get out.

• 20:21Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 20:22Shaan Puri?

  Give me your laptop.

• 20:23Sam Parr?

  Yeah, give me your laptop.

• 20:24Shaan Puri?

  Laptop right now and then get out and that's awesome.

• 20:27Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 20:28Shaan Puri?

  But it is awesome.

• 20:29Sam Parr?

  Text me a pic. Go after yourself.

• 20:34Shaan Puri?

  And you're like, objectively, this is awesome. Emotionally, I feel a little wounded and I'm rooting for you to fail.

• 20:43Sam Parr?

  No, but she did. And she's doing good.

• 20:47Shaan Puri?

  Okay, so here's what I think it has going for it. So why, like, let's brainstorm. We've done this with food. Remember you had your food thing that was, I think, like low key genius? And nobody really respects you for it except for me, but like.

• 21:00Sam Parr?

  That's such a left-handed compliment. Look, people don't get it. I do, but no one else does.

• 21:04Shaan Puri?

  No one else does.

• 21:05Sam Parr?

  Your parents don't understand, but I'm okay with your lifestyle.

• 21:09Shaan Puri?

  We've talked about it two or three times just to say the joke again to see if it hits. And it just doesn't seem to hit, but like, let's do it again. What's your food thing? And then let's, let's do the equivalent for the sports world.

• 21:20Sam Parr?

  So for food, I was like, there's like a handful of categories that you need to check off in order to make your food go viral. So see, there's got to be like a side food where it becomes the main thing. So it's like, instead of like ice cream that has cookie dough in it, it's like only cookie dough. The other thing is it has to be a different color than normal. So green ketchup. Or rainbow bagels, or it has to be a different size. So like a huge pizza or a really small thing. Or the last one was it has to be the combination of two things that are related, but you wouldn't normally have done it like the cronut.

• 21:52Shaan Puri?

  Right. Yes, exactly. Again, genius. Finally, hopefully, hopefully you get you do this time. So I think there's sort of a similar thing when it comes to creating a hit game or hit sport. Because when I played pickleball, I was like, okay, that was fun. And here's what was fun about it.

• 22:12Shaan Puri?

  There's zero learning curve. Like, we literally, nobody even really explained anything. They were just like, stand here, and when the ball comes to you, hit it. And then they were like, there's two rules. Don't go in the kitchen and like, you know, whatever, you know, here's how the scoring system works. They told me that as we were playing.

• 22:27Shaan Puri?

  It was very intuitive. It's like, okay, cool. Got this paddle similar enough to tennis, similar enough to ping pong. I kind of already know how to move my body this way. All right, this will this will work. So zero learning curve. We were playing and the age range of the players that we were playing with, if somebody had their son there. You know, who I think is like, you know, 11 or 12, but I think you could basically play this game from age eight to like 65. And so everybody.

• 22:51Sam Parr?

  My, my, my, my mom's close to 70. She goes to her pickleball league twice a week.

• 22:56Shaan Puri?

  Okay, we're we're we're pushing this to 80. Yeah, I don't know how, but this is super broad range. And how many sports can you really say that for? Very, very few sports can be played by extremely young and extremely old people. You could just play it with two people. So you don't need like five on five or like, you know, a full football team or basketball, baseball team.

• 23:15Shaan Puri?

  It picked up during COVID because it was kind of like an outdoors activity that anybody could do that was sort of socially distanced. And so I think that was like a big factor in why it grew. And it's basically like a lightweight version of of tennis, or even maybe even a lightweight version of golf in the way that people use it because you could talk while you're doing it. You're not like just huffing and puffing and running the whole time. And lastly, and most importantly, you could play the game drunk. And so this is like, you know, if I wanted to create the perfect game, those would be my my criteria. And then, you know, out would come would come pickleball. So I think it's it is kind of a perfect game in that way. So I think it has legs for that reason. I think it's going to keep getting more and more popular. The fact that the whole state of California worth of population plays this game

• 24:00Shaan Puri?

  has played this game in the last year is crazy.

• 24:03Shaan Puri?

  And you also see other things going for it, like the founder of Lifetime Fitness, you know, like the gym chain got really into pickleball and then put $500 million into building pickleball courts in all of his like locations because he's like, I love pickleball. People are going to love this. And so he deployed half a billion dollars into building infrastructure.

• 24:20Sam Parr?

  Dude, I love that.

• 24:21Shaan Puri?

  And people are converting tennis courts. All this stuff is crazy. There's 35,000 courts in the United States now.

• 24:26Sam Parr?

  Dude, tennis sucks anyway. Only like a couple of people know how to play it. You know what I mean? Like my wife took lessons on how to play and I would go and play with her and she would serve it at me and I would basically just try to hit it back. And that was how we played. It sucked. That sucked. And then I would serve it to her.

• 24:41Shaan Puri?

  Weird form of abuse, actually, is what you just described.

• 24:44Sam Parr?

  Tennis is stupid. So to anyone listening who wants to capitalize this, we can brainstorm, but I'm going to summarize this in the two simple words. Okay. Vince McMahon. If you are in this business, remember those words. Vince McMahon. Who's Vince McMahon? Vince McMahon is the owner and current or former CEO of the WWE, the World Wrestling Entertainment. I don't know what it is, but it's, it's anytime that we grew up, you know, Stone Cold, The Rock. This is WWE. Back then it was WWF. Dude, when you think about it, WWE is just a bunch of ripped dudes in their underwear, having a soap opera in front of 50,000 people and then the rest of the people on TV. It's all it is is a soap opera and there's a little

• 25:28Sam Parr?

  bit of ripped dudes in underwear wrestling. That's all it is. And it's awesome. You've got grown dudes who are like the most like homophobic guys ever, and yet they're like sitting there watching two oily ripped dudes just rolling around. It's like, you know, they get past it all because all they care about is the story, the drama. This is all you need to do. So if you're interested in this, you just go and get a picture of Vince McMahon, you put a picture of him on your wall and you say, What would Vince do?

• 26:00Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 26:00Sam Parr?

  What would Vince do? WWVD. What would Vince do? That's all I'd care about if I was entering into this because that's exactly what happens with tennis. I only cared about what's her name Serena in that last like tournament that she was in because it was her last one. You know what I'm saying? Like I only care about this Naomi Namasaka lady. I only care what's her name? What's her name? Sorry. Osaka. I only care about her because like I hear that she's kind of like going a little like she's having some mental issues. And I'm like, oh, okay. Now I'm kind of interested.

• 26:31Shaan Puri?

  We got a train wreck? Hang on.

• 26:32Sam Parr?

  Yeah. Yeah, like I'm into it. And like that's like what I get. I get hooked on it or like, you know, some of these like sports that I don't think are mainstream. I get it like Lance Armstrong guy gets cancer. Maybe he's on drugs killing these Europeans. All right, cool. You got my attention. Like I need a story and that's what anyone who's interested in pickleball needs to understand.

• 26:56Speaker 02

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• 26:59Speaker 03

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• 27:04Speaker 02

  Whoa, I can see the client's whole history. Calls, support tickets, emails. And here's a task from three days ago I totally missed.

• 27:13Speaker 03

  HubSpot, grow better.

• 27:16Shaan Puri?

  So I think as funny as what you just said is I think you're totally right. I remember when we started working on an esports product, right? Like that's what got bought by Twitch. We were building basically an esports company. And I met with a venture capitalist, this guy Zach. We he goes love esports, but esports needs its Dana White, which is basically Dana White was the Vince McMahon of the UFC. And he goes Dana White is like, there is no UFC without Dana White. Right? Because literally the company was going bankrupt. So, so you know, I don't think literally there would have been a company without, without Vince. Sorry, without Dana and his, and the Fertitta brothers coming in and buying it and putting in, they bought it for $2 million.

• 27:59Shaan Puri?

  And then they burned another 40 or 50 million trying to make it successful at a loss before it finally turned around and started to become a thing. And so they put in years, millions of dollars and expertise at promotion and willing to just run through walls to make it happen, going state by state to get this thing licensed. So they could even host events and then hosting an event, figuring out how we're going to sell tickets. And once they sell tickets, how are we going to get this thing on TV? Once it gets on TV, how are we going to build these characters and the storylines? Oh, we got to invest in all of these documentaries and

• 28:33Sam Parr?

  Dude.

• 28:33Shaan Puri?

  Reality TV shows and things like that.

• 28:36Sam Parr?

  Before smartphones were even a thing, Dana used to give his guys, I remember, you remember when they, they first came out, there are these video cameras that looked almost like an iPhone looks now, but it was like a flat flip cams. He get, he goes, hey, everyone, we're having a meeting, you UFC fighters, everything you do, here's your flip cam, record it, post it on like, I forget what was popular. I think it was YouTube, but we're, he was like one of the first guys to do that.

• 28:58Shaan Puri?

  Totally, totally was the first one. And he had to do it because he, no mainstream channel would let him in. He couldn't get a, you know, now they're on ESPN. It took 20 years to get onto ESPN as a sport. You know, that's how crazy this was. And so you need somebody like that, which is basically just saying you need a world class, one in a billion entrepreneur, if you're going to make this work. And there are some interesting characters that are involved in this thing. Do you know who this guy is? Dundon? If you hear about this guy, just search Dundon pickleball. There is this billionaire who is like really trying to make pickleball a thing. Like, so this guy made his fortune doing subprime auto loans, which like you didn't, I didn't even have to say the

• 29:42Sam Parr?

  Tom, Tom, Tom Dundon?

• 29:44Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 29:45Sam Parr?

  Yeah, some prime mortgage loans.

• 29:46Shaan Puri?

  Like you don't even have to say he made his fortune. If I just said, yeah, he worked on subprime auto loans. You'd be like, oh, so he's filthy rich, huh? Like, you know, like there's no, you don't put those four words together without being a billionaire. And so he's super rich. He takes a bunch of big wild bets. So he put. I think like $70 million into an NFL competitor called the AAF that like basically folded before it even had its first game and he lost $70 million trying to do that.

• 30:19Shaan Puri?

  Now he's basically, he owns pickleball.com. He bought the major league. You know, the biggest league for pickleball or like, you know, there's two competing leagues and he bought one of them. And this guy's like trying to make pickleball happen and he's

• 30:32Sam Parr?

  Dude, he also owns the majority of Topgolf.

• 30:34Shaan Puri?

  He owns the majority of Topgolf. Yeah, he does a bunch of stuff like this. So he is a pretty fascinating guy. There's a bunch of like really like interesting characters that have like kind of pushed this forward. So he's one of the guys who've pushed this forward. There's another guy named Seymour Rifkind. You ever heard of this guy?

• 30:51Sam Parr?

  No, why would I have heard of him?

• 30:52Shaan Puri?

  Here's some things about Seymour Rifkind. Self-made millionaire by creating a marketing company. All right. Check. Does Ironmans? Check. Does ultramarathons? Check. Taekwondo, black belt? Check. He has bicycled solo coast to coast? Check. He, he created the first rating system for pickleball? Check. And he did all of this after the age of 50. That's pretty baller. That's a, that's a pretty baller post 50 resume to have. So, so this guy kind of, you know, pushed, pushed the, the ball forward and kind of helped legitimize it, make it, make it more popular as well. And then obviously there's all the players and the people who have been playing at the grassroots as well. So, so

• 31:35Shaan Puri?

  I feel like with pickleball, there's just like this tremendous ground swell. And here's a couple of my quick takes. First of all, RIP Badminton. I knew, I knew for the first time I saw Badminton, Badminton was a little bit of a bitch sport. I could tell. I saw it coming and I avoided it like the plague and it just needed a little, little tweak, a little tweak there for Badminton and, you know, pretty sad for Badminton. It was like sitting there the whole time and missed, missed this wave. So, uh, you know, that sucks.

• 32:06Shaan Puri?

  Second, could this happen again? Like, I need to go start playing all old people's sports and just sniffing around like, what's up with bocce ball? How do you play this shit? Is this good? Is this the next thing? Like there, there might be another old person's sport that could be translated down. Third, you may not know this, but I was on the cusp of creating the next pickleball. Back when I was in middle school, me and my buddies created a game called golf. You might be wondering, what's golf, Sean? And golf was basically a combination of golf and ping pong. It was an extreme version of ping pong. And shout out to my guy, Steven D B, who was there with me in the, in our game room. And we created golf and I guarantee this is the most fun game ever. And we invented it. We just didn't know how to commercialize at the time.

• 32:52Shaan Puri?

  Incredible game.

• 32:53Sam Parr?

  My version of that, my version of that was in eighth grade. We came up with the game called Nutball where you.

• 33:01Shaan Puri?

  It's bloody knuckles with other parts of your body.

• 33:03Sam Parr?

  Oh, no, it's better. It's called Nutball. You sit 20 feet apart and you sit on the ground with your legs.

• 33:08Shaan Puri?

  I played that game.

• 33:10Sam Parr?

  And a person has to, yeah. And a person has to throw a ball. The first person that flinches loses.

• 33:16Shaan Puri?

  You move, you lose.

• 33:17Sam Parr?

  Get in trouble. Yeah. My, my, the sister Mary came up to me and said, Sam, no more Nutball. So I got banned.

• 33:26Shaan Puri?

  Which is a win of itself. Funny story. So I left, you know, I, we did that weekend kind of retreat founder thing. It was like, okay, we're going to brainstorm. We're going to really make plans. We're going to, you know, think about what's next. We can give each other great business advice. I left early on the last day, so I missed the last 24 hours. And so I hit up Ben and I was like, Ben, how was the, how was the last day? What'd I miss? Anything good? Anything really, you know, do you have, you have notes you can share with me? And he goes, no, we basically just played pickleball for seven hours because, uh, Sully really wanted to beat me and put pickleball. And, um, he couldn't, but he wouldn't let me leave until he beat me, but he just couldn't beat me. And so we just played for four and a half, five hours straight.

• 34:08Shaan Puri?

  And I just beat him nonstop. And then after that, we didn't talk. And I think like, that's the sign of a great game. A game that could take over your life and make you a bit of a degenerate. So I am all in on pickleball.

• 34:19Sam Parr?

  Dude, they need a leader with a good name. When I was in San Francisco, I got into competitive ski ball and the guy who ran it was called Joey the Cat. And he, do you remember Joey the Cat? He braided himself in San Francisco. He's Joey the Cat, the ski ball guy. And people would rent ski ball machines for him like startups.

• 34:34Shaan Puri?

  He was just like renting out ski ball machines to bars or to offices. What was he doing?

• 34:40Sam Parr?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And

• 34:41Shaan Puri?

  He was making good money doing it, right?

• 34:43Sam Parr?

  He was making great money. He owned buildings in the Mission. Yeah, he owned like anywhere where he had like a little warehouse with all of his skee ball machines and it was Joey the Cat. And all of his skee ball machines had like a tiger stripe on it. And, uh, oh, you got, you got a Joey the Cat machine? That's great, man. You, you, this

• 34:58Shaan Puri?

  It was like a status symbol. Yeah, it was like, oh, you guys, you guys must be doing well. You're having, you have fun in your office? Oh, cool.

• 35:04Sam Parr?

  Yeah. I'm like, oh, you're into like local shit? Nice.

• 35:07Shaan Puri?

  Right, right, right. Oh, you still, yeah, you're supporting this local guy?

• 35:11Sam Parr?

  Joey the Cat.

• 35:12Shaan Puri?

  You have kombucha here? Wow. You guys got it going on.

• 35:15Sam Parr?

  So this guy needs a, the leader of, uh, of, uh, pickleball. They need a cool name like Joey the Cat.

• 35:23Shaan Puri?

  There should be like a tiger sound every time you say that. All right. Um, okay, cool. We, let's do one more topic. Okay. I want to give you one more, uh, interesting person, um, that, that I think is worth talking about. Okay. So have you ever heard of virtual gaming worlds?

• 35:40Sam Parr?

  No, dude. Whenever we talk about this, what's my answer?

• 35:43Shaan Puri?

  Well, it's just kind of like a rhetorical question, really. So go.

• 35:45Sam Parr?

  I play sports. That's what I

• 35:49Shaan Puri?

  I play sports and I eat meat.

• 35:54Shaan Puri?

  You ever heard about Metaverse Quest?

• 35:59Sam Parr?

  No, I'm too busy having fun.

• 36:00Shaan Puri?

  Like I beat up the last guy who said those words to me.

• 36:04Shaan Puri?

  So go Google, Google this company. You're going to be kind of interested in this. So go to this website and I just want you to guess their revenue. Just say, we'll play a game called Guess the Revenue.

• 36:13Sam Parr?

  Uh, well, it's just like a little Squarespace rinky dink site looking, I don't know, five million?

• 36:19Shaan Puri?

  Uh, close, close. Three and a half billion a year.

• 36:22Sam Parr?

  Oh, great.

• 36:23Shaan Puri?

  Uh, with 500 million of profit and they did this in 10 years. So what they do is they're basically they're one of the only legal online casinos in the United States. They own one of the largest poker sites in America called Global Poker. And basically it's casino games done via sweepstakes and trade promotions. That's kind of like the legal arbitrage here to make this work is that they do it as, it's not gambling. It's basically sweepstakes.

• 36:52Shaan Puri?

  And they have a patent on it. So they have like very, he has very little competition at the moment, apparently.

• 36:58Shaan Puri?

  And I got to give a shout out to the guy. So there's a guy who sent me this message and a bunch of notes on this. I'm going to shout them out real quick. Um, it's kind of a He was like, dude, you gotta feature this guy. He's basically a billionaire. He pays it like, you know, basically, he, he just divveted out, you know, in the latest, like, whatever year or quarter and just bought a private jet off the, off the dividend. It's like, uh, so shout out to this guy, Ansel, who, um, who told me about them. So crazy, crazy, crazy business. He's, he's Ansel on Twitter. Um, all right. So here's what, here's what's interesting. So the guy who started it, he's an ex-financial planner. He basically was not a builder or a seller, right? Like, the typical startup archetype is like, you're a great engineer,

• 37:42Shaan Puri?

  or you're the great growth marketer. And he was neither. He was a solo founder. He was a financial planner, didn't know how to do marketing, didn't know how to do coding. He was basically just a badass. And he recruited a bunch-

• 37:51Sam Parr?

  And this is Lawrence?

• 37:52Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, Lawrence, exactly. Uh, he paid a developer agency to handle the build-out. So didn't have a technical co-founder CTO, just hired a dev shop. Um, you know, uh, it wasn't perfect. Like, they, basically, the code was so buggy, like, the slot machines would accidentally just pay you out a bunch. And this happened several times. They had to, like, survive that. Um, and this was built out in Perth, Australia. So this is like, built in the middle of nowhere. So, kind of violates all the rules. Single founder, didn't have the skillset, wasn't in a big city where, you know, oh, you gotta move to Silicon Valley or New York or wherever to do this. Uh, he came to Silicon Valley once, couldn't raise any VC because they can't invest in gambling opportunities. But the good news is, this, that means this guy didn't take on any investment, take on much investment, didn't, didn't get

• 38:36Shaan Puri?

  diluted. So he still owns 66% of this company that's doing 500 million a year in profit. And, um, and does, you know, three and a half billion in revenue. And so, you know, it's a, you know, basically started fully remote. They, they got their first office eight years in. Uh, you know, eight years into the business. It's pretty crazy.

• 38:52Sam Parr?

  Dude, it, it says he, um, wow, this is amazing. So he said, they, uh, increased their profit and they made 454 million in profit and it paid dividends of 413 million dollars. I actually have a question. So does that mean that the company only needs, uh, 40 million dollars, uh, or whatever the, yeah, 40 million dollars in cash to operate?

• 39:12Shaan Puri?

  Either that, or they have enough cash reserves already there to, for whatever, let's say their burn might be 100, they might have already a stockpile of cash reserves. So they just divvied out the excess.

• 39:21Sam Parr?

  That's wild, man. This is wild.

• 39:24Shaan Puri?

  So it's all based around this workaround, which is that the US law lets you do sweepstakes. Um, and so they offer sweeps coins that can be redeemed for cash. And, uh, they have a trademark or a patent around sweepstakes trade promotions. Basically, they worked with the US lawyers to build a system where, um, like customers can basically buy virtual gold coins, use it to play the games. They have no value outside of the game.

• 39:48Shaan Puri?

  But then when you buy the gold coins, you get these sweep coins with it. And, uh, and yeah, basically like they found a like a, it was a regulatory insight, not a product or marketing insight that allowed this, um, to happen. So, and sweepstakes are regulated basically like state by state. So in order for something to change, every, you know, different states, each individually would need to change something in order to make this happen. And, uh, yeah, there's basically like, uh, you know, brands that will use multinational companies. Like there's like sweepstakes companies that you can use to run sweepstakes across states because of the, of the complication.

• 40:24Sam Parr?

  Dude, whenever, whenever people tell me, hey, I have an idea. Should I hire a developer? Or should I hire one of these agencies to make an app? 99% of the times I say, no, you're wasting your money. You're never going to do anything with it and it's just going to go to waste.

• 40:38Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 40:38Sam Parr?

  This is the guy. This is the guy. Todd Tal needs to jump on this guy as like a story of how these things work. This is, this is a really fascinating story.

• 40:47Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. And there's a video of him in 2012. He's pitching at the launch conference to Jason Calacanis. I don't know if it's this exact idea, but basically, you know, similar, similar sort of gambling idea. And all the judges are basically like, oh, you know, the opportunity is outside of the US. It's too hard in the US. And, uh, you know, didn't listen, like knew his, knew his shit, understood that there's like a regulatory moat and a, a patent moat that he could create that would allow him to do this. And basically create kind of like a small, not small, sorry, a large cash cow. That's essentially like on, you know, nobody's really competing with him on this, which is kind of crazy. It's surprising to me that a patent would be this, this powerful at, at, um, stopping somebody from competing.

• 41:29Shaan Puri?

  Cause in tech, patents usually do nothing. Um, they

• 41:33Sam Parr?

  Dude, I don't care about patents at all. When someone says they have a patent.

• 41:36Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 41:36Sam Parr?

  Whenever they say someone has, by the way, what do you, Conor McGregor? Nice. I like that word. You should bring that back.

• 41:41Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, a little, little Brit in me.

• 41:43Sam Parr?

  Yeah. You gotta call me mate. I like that. Uh, that was pretty good.

• 41:48Sam Parr?

  They uh, whenever I hear someone say they have a patent at like in a pitch, I'm like, I, I think that means nothing.

• 41:54Shaan Puri?

  I don't think it's a red flag. I'm usually like, that means you think it's something and it is nothing, which means you don't know anything.

• 42:01Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it's like asking me to sign an NDA to hear someone's pitch. I'm like, oh, you, yeah, you're, this is a joke.

• 42:06Shaan Puri?

  We, uh, I remember at one of our startups, it was like, um, or like when we bought Bebo back. We, we got the patents with it and it was like, oh, this is a patent for, um, like the idea of like going on a social network and whiteboard. Like there's like a whiteboard feature where one user can draw anything on this virtual whiteboard. I was like, oh, you invented that? He's like, yeah. And I was like, cool, but like I use that on Facebook. He's like, yeah, because this means nothing. This piece of paper means nothing and it does nothing. And like, you know, impossible to really use this or enforce this or like, you know, just way too hard in the world of like internet innovation to, to make this work. It's that was my, that was my belief coming in. So this is a bit of a frame breaker here for me on, uh, on like why this guy has no competition doing this.

• 42:47Shaan Puri?

  And it might be some other reason. There might be another reason, which is it might be that this is actually shady AF and like most entrepreneurs don't want to do it or, you know, there's too many lawsuits or whatever.

• 42:57Sam Parr?

  Definitely that one, by the way. Definitely. I, I, I think it's definitely that one without like knowing anything about this and just going strictly off, uh, like I guess with zero information other than I see this guy, uh, owns a bunch of Ferraris, uh, probably that one.

• 43:11Shaan Puri?

  Oh, his Instagram is prolific and you, speaking of, uh, of, of names, this guy's got a name. Lawrence Escalante, like tell, you can't be Lawrence Escalante and not have a profile picture as he does. Where he's like this at a poker table and he's just looking over.

• 43:30Sam Parr?

  Yeah. He's them boys. That's what it is. That's what it is. His Instagram bio needs to be just, I'm them boy. This guy is the, this, this guy is the guy. Uh, well, congrats to him. That's an interesting find. He, uh, this is a crazy story. So.

• 43:44Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Shout out to Anthony for sending this over. That's, uh, he knew he's like, dude, I got something that's great for MFM and sure enough, it was.

• 43:52Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it's juicy. That's what that's called. That's called a, that's called a big juicy burger. It's a good find. By the way, we forgot.

• 44:00Shaan Puri?

  Oh.

• 44:00Sam Parr?

  I totally forgot.

• 44:01Shaan Puri?

  Speaking of legal agreements, patents, important, important contracts, there's one more.

• 44:09Sam Parr?

  Look, if you've made it this far, normally we put this in the beginning, this one's for the, for the real OGs who are into this. There's a thing called the MFM, My First Million Gentlemen's Agreement. And by the way, Sean, in our last video, you called it a gentleman's agreement. And then you actually said, shoot, we have four women listeners. We have to call it a woman's agreement. And did you see the, our four women listeners actually comment in the YouTube channel?

• 44:32Shaan Puri?

  And in fact, many said, no, you have more. I'm number five, but what they don't know is that actually there can only really ever be four, for whatever reason. It's just like a law of physics or something like that. One in, one out. It's like a nightclub. And so we really appreciate all of you. All four of you are like near and dear to our hearts. We look forward to getting to know you personally because we can, because it's four. And so, and actually they don't even need to sign the gentleman's agreement. They, they're in.

• 45:02Shaan Puri?

  They're grandmothered in.

• 45:05Sam Parr?

  There's two requirements here. If you've made it this far in the video and also if you've ever listened to more than one video, Sean and I dedicate like dozens of hours a week to making these videos. So now you are in debt to us and all you have to do to repay your debt is click like. It doesn't matter if you're listening on Spotify or iTunes, I always call it iTunes, but you know what I mean? It doesn't matter where you're listening to. You go to our, our YouTube page, type in my first million and then click subscribe. And now we're even and we work for you. It's called the gentleman's agreement because we're not there. I can't see your computer, so you just have to do it. Just don't lie. So please go and do that and that's it.

• 45:37Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it's like, um, you know, Biden was, was thinking about canceling student debt. Well, we're going to cancel your debt. You're going to cancel all your podcast debt. If you just do this one thing, like, I mean, I couldn't, couldn't think of a better deal for you, honestly. So, um, honor the gentleman's agreement. Go to YouTube, My First Million, click subscribe and turn the notifications on too. Why not?

• 45:58Sam Parr?

  Dude, by the way, this part of the pod has become a fan favorite. This is really, and I have to say, I stole this from someone, Jesse on Fire. I stole this from him. He's another YouTuber, but this has become a hit.

• 46:08Shaan Puri?

  Don't know why you're admitting that. I would just steal everything and say that he stole it from you. And let the

• 46:13Sam Parr?

  Well, he's a, he, he's a UFC podcaster, so maybe he can kick my ass.

• 46:17Shaan Puri?

  And how does he do it?

• 46:18Sam Parr?

  I will see him. He goes, look, the other day I went and I saw the dish at 7-Eleven. It was for Alzheimer's or like muscle, something dysentery, and I left a quarter there and I didn't steal the other quarters. I just left that one quarter there because that's called a gentleman's agreement and I stand by it. And that's the same thing with this. I edit the video. I come up with the content. I do all this work. I do it for you. What you're going to do for me is you're going to click subscribe. That's, that's our agreement. This is how society works and right now everyone's doing it. And if you haven't done it, you're, you're being left out. So please do that. And that's his pitch. It's pretty good.

• 46:50Shaan Puri?

  It's good and it's tough to come up with it each time. And I feel like in doing so, we also earn our, our part of the gentleman's agreement just by making it interesting, right? We gotta earn it. All right. We should, uh, we should wrap it up.