Announcing This Year's Episode of the Year: Camp MFM Recap

Episode 403: After an extensive process of intense research and rigorous evaluation (we ran one Twitter poll) we have determined the episode of the year: The Camp MFM Recap episode. So as we gear up to bring you tons of new and improved content this year, please enjoy this (now award winning!) episode from the vaults. ----- Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. ----- Additional episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto * #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ben?

  Hello and welcome to My First Million. This is producer Ben here with the episode of the year. We ran a highly unscientific poll on Twitter and the people have spoken and you chose the Camp MFM recap episode as the episode of the year. Shout out to our runner ups and honorable mentions. A lot of people said that their favorite episodes were the Palmer Lucky episode, the recent newsletter deep dive that we did with Austin Reef, the Peter Levels interview, Sam's unpopular opinions episode, the Sahil Bloom episode, Michael Girdly nominated himself, Andrew Wilkinson got a few shout outs, the inside story of Ligma Johnson, the episode where Sam and Sean went super deep on AI, the Stonks Demo Day collaboration, and the University of Michigan pitch competition.

• 0:45Ben?

  All got shout outs. And I agree, those were some great episodes, but there can only be one winner. Vox Populi, Vox Day, as Elon Musk is fond of saying. So here we are. If you're really upset about the winner, you can stop the episode right now, hit pause, go back and play one of those episodes and pretend like you won episode of the year. But to be clear, it didn't. The winner was the MFM recap episode. So that's what we're playing. We'll be back to your normally scheduled programming on Thursday. But until then, please enjoy this episode of the year winner, the Camp MFM recap episode.

• 1:18Sam Parr?

  So Sean and I did a podcast with Mr. Beast, his real name is Jimmy, and Hassan made a joke like, you want to go play ball? And he goes, yeah, let's go right now. And as he said that, his two coworkers that were with him started getting on the phone, calling high schools, principals of schools. And once someone said something like, well, what if they like, don't let us for insurance reasons? He goes, well, just tell them we'll give them a million dollars if someone gets hurt.

• 1:39Ben?

  He goes, that usually does the trick. I was like, how many times have you done this, bro?

• 1:54Sam Parr?

  All right. So I guess we're all gonna, we all want to talk about the same thing, right?

• 1:59Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, this is gonna be the Camp MFM recap episode.

• 2:03Sam Parr?

  I have a lot of things to say. Let me set the background because you're the one who organized it. So I think you need a third party here. So basically a month ago, Sean said, I'm gonna organize a basketball weekend and I want you to come and I'm gonna invite some other people. Please Venmo me $1,800 and show up at this address at this time. That's pretty much all I knew about. I didn't know anything else. And I think it was three weeks in advance, right?

• 2:29Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, something like that.

• 2:29Sam Parr?

  So basically, three weeks out, it just says, hey, come to North Carolina in Raleigh, near Duke, and we're gonna have a basketball camp and just show up. That's all I knew. And then I get an email. I booked my flight. I sent you $1,800. A day before, you send out who's coming. And it was like me and you, both Ben's, a couple HubSpot people like Jonathan, and then it was like Hasan Minhaj. It was Mr. Beast, and it was like 20 other really amazing entrepreneurs. And you rented out this

• 2:57Shaan Puri?

  Farm, basically. Or it's like a vineyard. Yeah.

• 3:00Sam Parr?

  Yeah, with like a lake and a zip line going into the lake. And it was like 24 entrepreneurs. And you hired this amazing basketball trainer who was also an entrepreneur. So he like fit in and was really insightful. You kind of half-assed the incredibly unimportant things. Like there is like, when we went and played basketball, I was like, hey, is there any food here? And you're like, well, there's just a bunch of boxes of Cliff bars. And like, oh, okay, that's okay. I'm okay with half-assed on that thing. So anyway, we all stayed in these two Airbnbs and just played like board games and like acted like 12-year-olds for like two nights. And it was amazing. It was so cool.

• 3:34Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it was basically a summer camp for grownups. And the origin of it is pretty simple. I love meeting new people. I actually genuinely love meeting new people. In fact, the podcast was originally started as an excuse to just get to talk to really fascinating, interesting people. But I hate most of the traditional ways to do it. I don't like going to conferences. I don't like going to networking events. I hate just being like, hey, you want to grab coffee? So, so I basically was like, look, there's a bunch of people who I think Are dope. I would love to hang out with them, get to know them. And then finally, I was like, what if I just did it instead of a networking event or a conference? Like, what if we just did it with something that it would be dope no matter who came? And so we had this idea for

• 4:17Shaan Puri?

  a basketball getaway. And we're like, all right, here's the criteria. They love basketball. Number two, they're a great hang, just great hang out with. And number three, that they can teach us something because they're a baller in their own craft, whatever that craft is. And so that's why we had people in the house that had built billion dollar companies. We had people who bootstrapped their way into, you know, tens of millions. And that's where they were. We had people that were entertainers like Mr. Beast or Hussin, who had millions and millions of fans and were creative talents. We had people that used to be in the NSA. We had a bunch of people from different backgrounds come up and join this thing. So that was the criteria. And that's basically how it played out. And I'm pretty sure, by the way, that it was the best weekend of Ben's life.

• 4:57Sam Parr?

  I want to talk about Ben. I want to talk about Ben in the middle or the end, but I have a feeling. I told Ben before we recorded, I go, Ben, the next six months in your life are, I think are going to have the most change you've ever experienced in your life.

• 5:08Shaan Puri?

  Totally agree. Totally agree with that. In fact, I was gonna text you something very, very similar, which is like, I don't know if you realize this yet, but your life is about to change because you can't just be surrounded by wildly ambitious people who like and believe in you and spend time, you know, seeing other people who have realized their dream come true and not go back to your house and look at yourself a little differently in the mirror. Like, you're gonna look at yourself and be like, all right, let's turn that ambition knob up two notches, right? Let's let's turn that faith and belief in myself up because I saw that these people are no smarter, better than me. They're just people like me. There's, they just went for it.

• 5:45Sam Parr?

  All those quote smarter, quote better, quote more successful people were looking up to Ben. Did you notice that?

• 5:51Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. And well, there was just a feeling of, I wouldn't even say looking up necessarily. It's more like equals. I think everybody, everybody there viewed themselves as an equal to everybody else. I'm sure everybody there had a moment where they were like, dude, I'm way out of place. Some people are like the basketball. They're like, oh, you know, I, I play basketball, but I'm not really like that into basketball. So some people maybe felt out of place there a little bit. Some people felt out of place in the house because they didn't know anybody. And then some people I bet felt out Place because they said, wow, I'm talking to this guy who's, you know, leaps and bounds further ahead in their business career. But everybody had to deal with that and then come to terms with that. I think that's, you know, part of the challenge.

• 6:25Ben?

  There's just so much to say. It was one of the best weekends of my life. It's so amazing. Sean, I just, I guess I would ask, there's like a really special feeling that is very difficult to convey throughout the entire weekend. You guys touched on it a little bit of just like no egos, even though people are at very different places, like there was just this really feeling of openness and connection. And like, even though there were these really, really successful people in all these different domains, like everyone just on the same level, learning from each other. It was very cool. Sean, like, what do you think it was that went into this weekend that created that environment where people were able to like feel that way and be that way with each other?

• 7:03Shaan Puri?

  I think it's three things. You actually mentioned two of them. First was the weekend felt very special. And I think that when people feel like they're a part of something bigger than themselves, when people have a little bit of awe or intrigue or curiosity or fear even, they get out of their, out of their comfort zone. And so part of it was if you make something that that feels special, that feels different, that inspires some awe or some, they don't know what's coming next. It brings everybody back to sort of like an equal footing of the sort of a childlike thing. I remember when, so we invited Alex Basel, who's a trainer to, to a bunch of NBA stars like Kyrie Irving and Trey Young. And this guy's like, you know, he's like the top of his craft. He trains like, he came from training like, you know, Kevin Durant to us. He sent us a clip. He's like, here's what I

• 7:48Shaan Puri?

  was doing today. Tomorrow I'll be seeing you schmucks. And like, right? Like, you know, but that first five minutes, I would say, when he had us doing very simple like drills, everybody was spread throughout this whole private gym that we had rented and we're all literally dribbling the ball almost accidentally in unison, like that old Nike commercial. There was little pockets, little moments like that where it just felt special. And, you know, so, so I think that's the first piece is you got to give people a feeling that they're part of something bigger than themselves. Number two, you invite people who are inherently curious. So everybody there, I would say actually has an ego. Everybody there has an ego, otherwise they wouldn't. Get to where they were, but bigger than their ego is their curiosity. And so as long as you can create the curiosity factor where who's this person? Oh, they're interesting. Oh, they're interesting. They're interesting.

• 8:33Shaan Puri?

  Then again, the attention go, they're so used to attention being on them. They're so used to being the most interesting person in the room. So you want people who are naturally curious about the people around them. So even the sort of quote, quote celebrities or kind of the big hitters that we had in the house that were maybe the wealthiest or the most popular people that were there. I picked specifically people that in my limited interaction with them, they were very curious. Like, for example, when you had first met Mr. Beast, you met him before we did. You were like, yeah, he just called me and he was like, yeah, I'm on this walk. I do this every night. I just call somebody and say, yo, teach me something. And I was like, already I know everything I need to know about this person. Same thing when Hussin came on the, the podcast, he asked me more questions than I asked him. I felt bad afterwards. I was like, dude, I just blew the podcast. Cause he was asking me questions. I'm supposed to ask him. Nobody gives a shit about me.

• 9:17Shaan Puri?

  They wanted to know from him, but that showed me like he would fit into this group because he would be curious about, oh, what's this real estate guy doing? What's this guy doing? Who's rolling up like those claw machines at amusement parks and pinball machines? And like, that's what this guy does. And he's building a little mini empire doing that, right? You need somebody who's curious. Otherwise they would just be like, that's weird. I don't know. Stay away from me. Right? You're different. I would say the third was the immersion. So yeah, it wasn't like you couldn't get away for better or for worse. Like normally you go to a dinner, you sit there for three hours. It's sort of a safe space. You know, the routine and then you leave and you get to go back to your place. So you can, you can stay surface level with a lot of people with this. It's like, dude, I'm sleeping in the same room as somebody else. Sometimes I'm definitely under one roof for the house.

• 10:00Shaan Puri?

  We're eating breakfast together, lunch together, dinner together. We're figuring out logistics. Oh, you want to shower first or me? And at some point you're going to just be your real self. Cause you can only fake the funk for so long. You can do it for two hours, three hours, four hours. By hour five, you're just going to be sitting there, you know, tired and cranky and you're going to be your real self. And like, that's just the way it was. So I think that those are the three things I would say that like created that environment.

• 10:24Sam Parr?

  Well, and I was gonna say it started from the top down. I mean, I would say mostly it was your brand, partially it was the brand you and I have created together, which is actually similar to both our personalities. But basically, like, you're a casual person, you're a relatively low ego person, as in, like, you're easy to be around, and it kind of stemmed from that. So I think that actually matters a lot. And it was like, the house we were in was kind of like gross, but in a cool way. Like, people on my Twitter were like, dude, that's a sick set. You made it look like a grandma's house. I'm like, oh, no, that's just like this woman's bedroom. It doesn't look like that. All right. So if you're under 35, and you maybe don't know who Mr. Beast is, he's a YouTuber who's only 24, maybe. He's got 100 million subscribers, really big business that makes nine figures a year, and he just makes tons of videos that gets viewed by

• 11:09Sam Parr?

  a lot of the world. So I have an interesting story about him. So we were in a car, and I was talking about like a popular band or politics or something. I think we were even talking about a movie like Harry Potter. And I could tell he wasn't registering what we were talking about. He was trying to partake in the conversation and be polite, but I could tell that he didn't, he didn't like know what I was saying. And I said something to him. I go, hey, have you ever heard about this thing? And I think it was like Harry Potter or something, or it was like something like mainstream. And he goes, no, I really, I just don't know anything about that. I've never seen that. And I could tell that he didn't know this about a lot of things. And I said, what's going on? How do you not know about this? And he goes, when I was young, I made a goal when I was 15 to be the most popular YouTuber in the world. And I pretty much stopped paying attention to everything

• 11:51Sam Parr?

  else. So if whatever you're talking about is not part of like YouTube culture, I don't know what it is. And that was incredibly interesting to me. And he said a few other things that showed his intensity. The second thing was, he said, I've gotten so big, and I'm like studied and gotten great at my craft, that I can't really learn too much from other YouTubers. So I talked to a lot of experts on human behavior and researchers in order to improve my craft. And also, I don't really have work weeks. So I just kind of work, and I get obsessed over stuff, and I roll out of bed at 10 or 8 a.m. or whenever it is. And my team like tells me what I have to do. And then I just work all night until I get tired and I go to bed, and I work seven days a week. And then occasionally, I get burnt out, and I take a couple of days or however long I need to recharge, and then I do it again. I don't pay Attention to the normal work week.

• 12:36Sam Parr?

  The third thing that he did was he didn't care about rules. So Sean and I did a podcast with him at about, it ended at like 11:00 PM. And Hassan made a joke like, you wanna go play ball? And Jimmy was like, Mr. Beast's real name is Jimmy. He goes, yeah, let's go right now. And as he said that, his two coworkers that were with him started getting on the phone, calling high schools, principals of schools, like all these people in order to get a basketball court. And we couldn't, we couldn't make it happen. But he was like, really, really going after that to make that happen. And I thought that was crazy interesting. And once someone said something to him, someone said something like, well, what if they like, don't let us for insurance reasons? And he goes, well, just tell them we'll give them a million dollars if someone gets hurt. And it was just so funny that he wasn't paying.

• 13:16Shaan Puri?

  That usually does the trick. I was like, how many times have you done this, bro?

• 13:20Sam Parr?

  He just didn't pay attention to, to rules. I thought that was the trick. Now, I'm going to contrast that with this other person. I'm not going to say his name, but he might've been the wealthiest person there. And he wholly owned a business that was worth probably 500 to 800 million dollars. And it made tens of millions a year in profit. And he basically told me that he worked really hard to get it going. But now he works one week a month. And then the other week a month, he likes to travel. And then the other two weeks of the month, he's just kind of searching. So his company, he owns a bunch of companies. The other two weeks, he's just online, searching for other deals and companies to buy, but at a fairly casual pace. And I thought this was interesting because these two guys were the exact opposite of when you met them. One guy, you'd be like, oh, you're easy to be around. You're well balanced. The other guy, Jimmy, not well balanced at all.

• 14:06Sam Parr?

  But both of them had this laser focused intensity of when they're on, they're on. And they played their game at a really, really high, highly levered. So lots of leverage and that type of scale where it was just like anytime, if I make a decision, the outcome is potentially big and I don't always have to make a lot of decisions.

• 14:23Shaan Puri?

  I agree with everything you just said. And in fact, I think we could probably do a two episode series, literally just on Mr. Beast. And I don't mean that because I'm a fan. Like in fact, I've watched a couple of his videos. It's not like I went in being like, ooh, this guy's my favorite. You know, like it's not that, right? Like I've watched a couple of his videos. It's like, oh, okay, I get it. That's cool. I get why that works. It's good, good fun. And so it's not that, but I am now a much bigger fan of him after seeing how he operates. I'm going to tell you a couple of stories. So you didn't go for this, but a couple of us who arrived the day before, we got to go visit his studios and we got to go tour his production facility, which is like, I don't know, Ben, how big is that place? Like 50,000 square feet or something like that?

• 15:03Sam Parr?

  Like basically an airplane hangar, right?

• 15:04Shaan Puri?

  Imagine a giant airplane hangar and on one end, they're like, oh, we're building this set over here. It's like a Hollywood production thing. So there's four production teams.

• 15:11Sam Parr?

  And you're like in rural North Carolina.

• 15:14Shaan Puri?

  We're in, yeah, like people make this pilgrimage out to go see Warren Buffett and they call him the Oracle of Omaha. But I was like, where are we and where are we going for this pilgrimage? And so we get out there, but it's like had that same thing, very special. You go there and it's like this group of people who are all singularly focused on one mission, which was to create the best videos possible, to create the best videos that get the biggest reactions that, you know, like, and that's all they were all doing 24/7. They were all just working on that. So I'm going to tell you a couple of, of kind of amazing stories from that. We were like, so what is your, like, what's your model, dude? And his model is basically this, he started off making videos with no money, just him in his bedroom,

• 15:55Shaan Puri?

  doing dumb stuff like, I'm going to say Logan Paul's name 100,000 times. I'm gonna take this plastic knife and I'm going to cut through, I'm going to saw through this plastic table in the next 48 hours. He just sat there. He would just do stuff like that. No budget, no whatever. But he knew, he understood even at that time, like, okay, what would get somebody's attention? What would make them laugh? What would make them watch? What's a bit of a spectacle? Low budget spectacles. Now he's doing high budget spectacles. Like we get there, there's a camera flying above us. There's fireworks and smoke bombs. And there's crazy stuff going on, right? Because now he's investing, I think on average, Ben, what is it? Like half a million or a million dollars per video or something like that?

• 16:33Sam Parr?

  I think he said 1.5.

• 16:35Shaan Puri?

  1.5, yeah. 1.5 million dollars per video, just on the production. That's kind of insane. And so the thing I admired the most about him was, okay, in that house, there was, let's say 25, everybody there was entrepreneurial. So if I said, who here is entrepreneurial? How many out of, out of, let's just pretend out of a hundred percent, how many people would raise their hand?

• 16:58Sam Parr?

  Almost all.

• 16:59Shaan Puri?

  Okay. Hundred, we were at a hundred out of a hundred. I said, who here has a clear vision of what they want? Now, how many people do you think are raising their hand?

• 17:08Sam Parr?

  60.

• 17:09Shaan Puri?

  Okay.

• 17:10Sam Parr?

  Maybe seventy.

• 17:11Shaan Puri?

  Who here can think about that vision and can honestly say that it is wildly ambitious? Like Mr. B's ambition is to be, you know, a billionaire YouTube creator to get to a billion followers and make billions of dollars. He has told me that he wants to be one of the richest men on the planet, the most famous person on the planet and president. So, okay, that's his ambition. What's yours, right? So how many could just say in their own right that I'm thinking really big? I'm thinking wildly ambitious. So we're at sixty percent. Where are we at now?

• 17:38Sam Parr?

  Maybe twenty.

• 17:39Shaan Puri?

  Okay, we're down. We're down to twenty percent. And now if I ask the last question, the most important question of them all, I said, who here is truly and totally obsessed? Meaning you are willing to give every hour of your day, every dollar you create, you're willing to reinvest back into your thing. You don't take anything off the table. You don't hedge, you don't buy that nice house, you don't buy those fancy cars, you don't put it away for, for your kids. You, you wake up, you do your thing till you pass out and you are getting every hour, every dollar and every ounce of your soul to that ambition. How many peoples are left? How many, what percent are left raising their hand? How many people?

• 18:15Sam Parr?

  He might be the only one and I would say, well, it's also because he was the youngest, but that could just, you know, it could play out where even if he's not the youngest, he still would have behaved that way.

• 18:26Shaan Puri?

  He would be the only one and that's not just about that house. I could go down into San Francisco. I could say, hey, gather around every venture backed founder here. I could go into every, I can go to a gymnasium full of people who all say they want to be a big YouTuber, all say they want to be a comedian or an athlete.

• 18:41Sam Parr?

  This isn't necessarily a good thing. It could be a good thing. It could also, I think, be his downfall.

• 18:46Shaan Puri?

  There's a reason most people don't do it, I think is what you're saying, which is like, there's a price that comes with that and that price is a price that most of us will not pay. What do you think? Think better.

• 18:54Ben?

  I just think there's a couple of things he said throughout the weekend that I was like, oh, this guy is so successful, but to Sam's point, like he's on a knife's edge. If you play out his life a hundred times, I think in like twenty five or thirty of them, he literally ends up on the street as just like an addict because he does have that obsessive personality. And if he had ended up for whatever reason obsessed with not the right thing, that's the way it would have gone.

• 19:15Sam Parr?

  I have a list of like three things that might be his downfall. Keep in mind, the guy is like twenty four, so he's going to evolve quickly. But one, he was incredibly naive about business, which is actually a pro, I think in a lot of cases, but in his case, I think that like you have to get a little bit less naive and learn a little bit more about business. You know, the thing you said about him cutting through a table with a plastic knife, that's kind of how he's done his life. He's just like. You know what I mean? Like, he's just like brute force his way. And I think that's great. That can get you a long way. But in order to last and be as big as he wants to be, like a Bezos, you gotta have a little bit more sophistication as you grow. He's got plenty of time, though. The second thing is hiring. I think that he kind of told stories that it made me seem, it made it seem like he just hired his friends. And it's like, hey, you're fun.

• 20:00Sam Parr?

  You want to do this? That I don't think that's going to cut it either. And then the third thing is company building. We asked him on the pod about like work hours and about like meetings. And he, I actually don't remember if he did it. I don't think he did a great job of answering it, but the vibe that I got was it was like a little bit like just whatever Jimmy wants, Jimmy gets. And I think that's okay for a little while. But in order to be as big as he wants to be, you gotta have a little bit more company building, a little more process oriented, things like that, that are kind of the antithesis of like being a cool YouTuber in many regards.

• 20:32Shaan Puri?

  So I'll disagree with you on a couple of those. I think that, first of all, I think he's 24. So I remember when I was 24, 24, I became a CEO for the first time of like a real company, a company that had revenue and employees that were not like my two best friends from college. And where he's at at 24 and where I was at at 24 is like if me and Usain Bolt go and run a race. It's like there was, there is such a, like, on one hand, he's sitting in a room. I think the, you know, the oldest person in our, our group was maybe 43. And I would say the average age is maybe like 34, 35, something like that, probably something like that.

• 21:07Sam Parr?

  Yeah. By the way, I'm not insulting him. I'm incredibly impressed.

• 21:10Shaan Puri?

  Right. So I just think where he's at on the learning curve, like, yeah, there is no shortcut to the learning curve. You've got to learn all these lessons, but where he's at is actually pretty far along. And the brute force approach actually works. Like you said, there is a strength to that. And I, and I think that if you're just what he's, if you're doing what he's doing, which is you're just like, F it, I'm doing it. I'm holding nothing back. I'm going to go all in. And I'm going to repeatedly go all in until this, like, just, I just find a way to make this work. I think that overcomes a lot of the mistakes you're going to make, right?

• 21:38Sam Parr?

  Maybe for the first, maybe for the first billion or two.

• 21:40Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 21:42Sam Parr?

  I think that that is a great attitude and what he proved is that you could have that attitude for like late stage in your career, even though he's 24, like he's got late stage in terms of results, even though he's probably in 10%, 100%. In most cases, he's late, he's late stage. But in order to get as big as he wants, he said he wanted to build multiple 10 billion, even I think he said 100 billion dollar company. You know, that's, we're talking Walmart, you know, like you, you, you, you can't always bet the farm at that size.

• 22:11Shaan Puri?

  And I'm gonna be honest with you. I had an initial reaction to him that was sort of, there was a part of me that was like, ah, fuck this guy. Right? And not because he did anything bad. He's totally nice. But his ambition is almost uncomfortable to where you're like, where you're like, I'm not talking to somebody who's, who they don't live in the same reality that I live in. And so my initial reaction was like, okay, you're saying things that don't, either they don't make sense, or it's like too like one sided, or it's like just like pure unadulterated, like raw ambition. And there's something uncomfortable about that because I kind of like people that are like, like one of the things I admire is people who are well balanced. So I told him this when I was talking to him, I was like, he was basically like, I admire Elon, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, like, these are the people that I admire. I'm like them. I'm wired like them. And I like to hang out with

• 22:56Shaan Puri?

  people like them. And I go, yeah, I'm not like them. And we're on the phone. And now there's like, you know, like a 10 second uncomfortable silence. Because it was true. I was like, what am I gonna do? Pretend I am? No. I could just, you know, I'm gonna say what's real. And I was like, you know, I was like, that doesn't mean I'm not ambitious. I might, I just point my ambition at a different outcome. Those guys all became the wealthiest men on earth. They created like, you know, world changing, like spectacles, like landing rockets, you know, self landing rockets, self driving cars, electric cars, all this crazy stuff, right? Created the iPhone. So those people, they were wildly ambitious in that way. There are other people that are wildly ambitious in other ways. I said, you know, like somebody I look up to, I model myself after is like Naval. I think he's really successful in business, but also he's revered because of his wisdom, not because

• 23:40Shaan Puri?

  he created the iPhone. Right? Like, you know, he hasn't gone through five marriages and breakups and like, you know, he hasn't like been bankrupt and then back to the top and then is depressed, but he's super successful. It's like, to me, that's not winning. But I get it that for other people, there is winning. I'm glad there's people who think that's winning because they're the ones who are gonna create the next iPhone and create the next Tesla. And but I just was explaining that to him. And I think that that was the only, I don't actually think he's naive about business. I don't actually think he's about anything. I just think like, when you, when you have your play style, it's very sexy to be like, My play style is the play style. My, my play style is the, is the cool one and all the other ones are weak for these other reasons. And I think as people get older, they really start to respect other people's play styles.

• 24:21Shaan Puri?

  I think this has happened for most of the people I, I really get along with where they're like, they can admire a billionaire as much as they could admire a single mother. Cause they're like, dude, these are just different games, but I really, I, I can, I can admire and not in like a token, just saying the right thing kind of way. Like they truly feel it in their heart. Like, like, you know, they truly feel that, wow, what you're doing is your Superbowl. And I respect the way you approach your Superbowl and your Superbowl is just as valid as my Superbowl, even if they're totally different.

• 24:49Sam Parr?

  One, that's a great way to put it. The way that I also put it is I say, I don't care about money. I care about people who like actualize their dreams and their dream could be to be the best parent. The dream could be to be a billionaire. It could be to be an athlete, to be strong, to be skinny. I don't care what exactly your dream is. I just want to see you achieve it. And that makes me happy when I see someone going places and it just so happens that money and traditional success is a very practical way to measure that. Or to like achieve it. Like it just says like, well, I just do this business thing as opposed to being the best parents, a little bit more challenging. But yeah, I, I completely agree with you.

• 25:24Shaan Puri?

  We have another friend or I have a friend. You've met him. I don't know if you, I don't know if you love the guy or hate the guy because he also is uncomfortably ambitious. He remember he came to a dinner with us. I don't want to say his name, but I came to a dinner with us once and you could describe your impression of him, but he, he's also this type.

• 25:39Sam Parr?

  I was embarrassed to be around him.

• 25:41Shaan Puri?

  I met him when he was 19, 20, something like that. And he, at that time was basically like, yeah, I'm like, I'm going to be a billionaire, multi billionaire. Just a matter of like, you know, is it at 25 or 26, 27, but I don't know when. And I was like, so do you date? He's like, no, I'm just going to wait till I'm a billionaire that I'm going to date. Like, you know, the hottest woman on earth who's also like, you know, loves me and is like the heir to the throne somewhere. Right? Like he just, I'm just going for a 12. And he's like, you know, so first time we have a multi billionaire, then I'm going to date this 12 and marry her. And then I'm going to have like all these children and then my children are going to do this. And like, if somebody else was like really excited about their thing, that's like kind of small. He'd be like, well, that's kind of a waste of time, right? Like you could just, why not just do something bigger that would make you more money?

• 26:24Shaan Puri?

  And like, he's just so matter of fact, so black and white about it, like not in a way that's not in a way that's rude. Like he's not trying to be rude, but he just genuinely only obsesses over his thing, which is in his case, like investing and being like a better investor than Warren Buffett. He's like, you know, I've, I've, I've watched every video, read every book by Warren Buffett, Ray Dalio, all the greatest investors. I've studied them. I'm just as good as them. Yeah. I'm younger than them, but I'm just as good at them. In fact, I think I'll be better than them. But yeah, by the time I'm, they're, they're 90, I'll be better than them by now.

• 26:55Sam Parr?

  How's it going?

• 26:57Shaan Puri?

  I mean, who knows? I don't, I can only, I literally can only check in with them so often because if you talk to them too much, it's just like, oh dude, like I get my, I get a headache. Like A, I feel insecure because I'm not as ambitious. And then B, I just get frustrated because I'm like, dude, come back to reality. Like you're floating away in your own bubble somewhere, but I like people like that. They, those people also are like, they serve a real place in my life.

• 27:20Sam Parr?

  Can I, can we, can we, can I bring up a different topic that was subtle, but crazy fascinating?

• 27:26Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 27:28Sam Parr?

  So Ben Levy invited this guy whose Twitter handle is Commodore. And Commodore is famous, I guess, because he started a DAO and he's trying to buy an NBA team. And he's raised tens of millions of dollars to do it. And I started talking to this guy and we started talking about, you know, just all types of stuff. And I go, what's your name by the way? And he goes Commodore. I go, oh, that's a sick name. Like, why'd your parents name you Commodore? Well, I forget what it was, but he goes, oh, that's not my real name. Um, I'm, I'm anonymous this weekend. I go, what? He goes, yeah. So like in order to get rid of, in order not to have like some legal implications as, and I don't actually know what all the implications were. He goes, I'm just anonymous. And I go, does anyone here know who you are? He goes, no, no one here knows my real name.

• 28:12Sam Parr?

  Ben Levy, the guy who invited me, he has no idea who I am or my name. And I was like, what? That's interesting. So I just called him Commodore and we talked about like family. We talked about his wife and children, where he lived and how like, you know, I am maybe familiar with that area. We talked about all these things and we got like, 30 minutes to do a really deep conversation. I was like, what would you do? What were you doing before this? He was like, oh, I was doing this, this and uh, oh, wow. That's amazing. What was it called? He goes, oh, I can't tell you. I'll dox myself. And I was like, oh, and I, I got back and I like remembered we are anonymous. And I thought that was so fascinating. What did you think about?

• 28:44Shaan Puri?

  I don't know. I didn't find it that fascinating, but now that you say it, I'm like, yeah, that was kind of crazy. Like you see.

• 28:50Sam Parr?

  It didn't feel crazy. It didn't feel crazy.

• 28:53Shaan Puri?

  You people who have theirs, you see people who have their like handle online and that's their persona. But you're right. I've never actually just met one of those people in real life and had them just be like, yeah, that's just, that's my identity. I've just given like, I don't use my, my birth identity, my, my legal identity. I use my online identity as my main identity. And everybody was like, all right, what's up Commodore?

• 29:12Sam Parr?

  I called him Commodore the whole time. I thought that was his real name for the first 24 hours.

• 29:16Shaan Puri?

  Every time he walks in room, people are like, ah, Commodore. Hey, where's Commodore? Is he ready to go? And it's like, that's not like, who is this guy? Nobody here knows who this guy is and we're all okay with it. That was kind of, yeah, you're right. That was kind of amazing.

• 29:27Sam Parr?

  And I was like, can I just take a picture of you and like reverse search this? He goes, you can, but you won't. I was like, you're right. I'm not going to.

• 29:34Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Like there was sort of a respect at some points. Like I'm not going to try to know this because you're cool and I don't need, why, why would I do something you don't, you're not comfortable with? You don't want that? All right. I'm, I'm your friend. I'm not going to do that to you.

• 29:44Sam Parr?

  Dude, that was, it was so weird at first and then it became completely normal. And now, now I totally get this anon thing. And I asked him, I go, did you, do your friends know who you are? And he's, no, he's like, they, they, a lot of them just don't know what I do for work.

• 29:58Shaan Puri?

  So there was a group of people there that are pretty interesting. So one guy who we both loved, who we did a pod with. So I guess I'll, I'll explain the, the rest of the setup. So we did a couple of other cool things. I thought we had a chef who's there at the house, just making all the meals. That was great. So nobody had to think about anything. And then we had Kevin Durant basically sent us like 30 pairs of his shoe. So everybody, everybody who got there, they got.

• 30:20Sam Parr?

  Believe you did that.

• 30:21Shaan Puri?

  A pair of his shoes. We got a custom like shirt jersey that said Camp MFM with your name on the back of your number. So people kind of had their like jersey for the weekend. We got like, they also sent like Nike sent bags for us. So there was a couple of things that were like cool. You know, while I was talking about the moments in between the moments, we tried to have some moments in between the moments.

• 30:37Sam Parr?

  It felt like Christmas morning, like with all these shoes here and we all like got there and like unwrapped them. It was really cool.

• 30:42Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. We all turned into little kids, really unboxing our thing and be like, oh yeah, I got it. Like, you know, all these people could afford a thousand shoes, a thousand times over, but like, it just, it's still great to just get a free, cool thing that somebody sends you.

• 30:54Sam Parr?

  Can I say one cool thing you did, Sean?

• 30:56Shaan Puri?

  What?

• 30:56Sam Parr?

  Is that it wasn't all KD's. It was like KD's and a couple Kyrie's and some LeBron's. So it was fun to open up to be like, oh, which shoes did I get?

• 31:05Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, that was true. Some other great moments. So we, um, we had gotten connected with the guys at Duke because we're in North Carolina. And we had said, hey, can we come like get a tour of the place? They did so basically some of the former players who are now coaches, some of the current players basically came together and they, they took us on a tour of the practice facility. What did you think of that? By the way, you're not like, uh, like I went to Duke. That to me was obviously cool.

• 31:27Sam Parr?

  Dude, it was so cool. It was so awesome. So I don't know anything about basketball. I even made a joke when we walked in, I go, Ben, who's that dude? And it was Coach K. Uh, I was like, yeah, so like I don't really know anything about basketball, but it was inspirational because the assistant coaches now, I think they are, they told stories about working with Coach K, who's like known for, you know, 30 years of excellence and tradition and like perfection. And he told, they told some amazing stories and it felt, I did feel like I was in a, I don't know, holy place when I was there.

• 31:56Shaan Puri?

  So I want to say something about that too. So one of the players there, Emile Jefferson, who he, he was on the championship team, maybe seven years ago or so.

• 32:03Sam Parr?

  Was he the, was he like the coach, like the guy leading the tour?

• 32:06Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, he was the guy kind of telling the most stories. And I just want to give him a shout out because basically they didn't know what the hell was going on. Neither did our group. All of a sudden 30 people are standing face to face in this practice facility. It's like, so, uh, okay, who are you guys? And like, what am I supposed to show you? What, what are we doing here? And like, I don't think anybody really knew.

• 32:22Sam Parr?

  He totally winged it. He did, he did good. It also helped that we had Mr. Beast here and Hassan. So everyone thought that like, oh, everyone else here must be famous too. I just don't recognize them.

• 32:30Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. It's like, they didn't know we're all just prolific newsletter creators, you know?

• 32:35Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 32:36Shaan Puri?

  Podcasters and newsletter creators and a couple actually famous people.

• 32:39Sam Parr?

  Yeah, they ball, we blog.

• 32:41Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. So he tells the story and I just got to give him credit. Like that was like a make or break moment. Do you have a story or do you not? And I just want to encourage everybody to like, have a story in your back pocket. Like whatever the most common question you get, which is like in this case, what's Coach K like? You know, what was it like playing here? What's it like, you know, whatever? And don't just be like, it was good, man. Really cool, real special to be here. Yeah, it's, I mean, it's just been awesome. I've learned so much. It's like, that's what I would say nine out of 10 people would have done. He's like, you know, when I first got here, I thought it was hot shit, blah, blah, blah. And then Coach K was just yelling at me, yelling at me, man. And I was just, I didn't know what to do. He's like, later on, I realized that it, once he stops yelling at you, that's when it's bad because then he's giving up on you.

• 33:26Shaan Puri?

  But like, you know, for that moment, he's like, in some practices, and then you say, he's had a counterintuitive thing. He's like, some practices, he just sat there, man. He didn't say anything. The whole practice, he wouldn't say a word. And you just think, oh, man, he's just checked out. Like, he's not doing anything. Like, I don't know, it's weird. I guess he doesn't care right now. But then three weeks later, he would reference something that he was observing that day. And you're like, dude, you've been watching everything. You got like cameras in the walls and microphones. Like, how do you know all this stuff? And he tells the story. He's like, you know, we have this one little film room and the secret, like, he's like, see that wall? Right there, there's like a secret door. You go in there, there's a, there's a film room right next to the practice gym. He's like, and he took me in there. He's like, come here. And I, I go in there and I hadn't been playing that well. And he takes me in. And there's like all these screens in there. He's like, and on all of the screens is just a picture of me.

• 34:08Shaan Puri?

  Like various pictures of me all doing the same pose where I'm just sitting there like this. I'm like, I'm exasperated. I'm like mad at the ref or my teammates or the coaches. I'm, my hands are out, my hands are up, my palms are up. I'm like, it's like the, the Y like type of like expression. And already everybody's on the edge of their seat in the story because we're like, Yeah. Hey, this is cool. This is interesting. I want to know what was this about? He's like, he said, look, look at this, son. You're one of the leaders of this team. You look like a beggar. You're sitting there with your palms out, begging for a call from the referee, begging for the coaches to help you, begging for your teammates to do something. He's like, you're a leader. I don't ever want to see you look like a beggar again. He's like, don't, don't do that. This is not the body language of a leader.

• 34:50Shaan Puri?

  My face, look at your face, look at your hands. And then I was like, hey, Such a good story. Such a good story. He's like, for the rest of, he's like, dude, rest of the season, you'll watch me. If something happens, I'm like this. He's like, you know, does a totally different pose. He's like, you'll never catch me doing that pose again. And I thought, great way to connect with the group, right? Like, we're all like, kind of CEO leader types. So you tell a leadership story. You tell a counterintuitive one, entertaining one, and it's a happy ending, right? And I just thought, man, he just killed it with that moment. And I just felt, For myself, if I look at how I was hosting that weekend, I felt like if I was gonna level up how these things go, that's one thing I want to work on is in those moments where you need to either make the toast, welcome everybody in, tell the story, get people primed for what we're about to do. Like, the difference in the whole experience can

• 35:35Shaan Puri?

  just be in that like, two-minute story right before you start. And that's what I want to get great at.

• 35:40Sam Parr?

  I told you this like, three times. You pulled this off perfectly. And you nailed the important stuff, and you failed and ignored the non-important stuff. The non-important stuff is the nice-to-haves that... But here's the thing, most people would spend time on that. So, you had no website, you had no like, invitation, you just DM'd people, you said Venmo me money. And I didn't know what I was getting into, but I just trusted you. You, last minute, sent us the address. So basically, like, on the way to the airport, you told me the address of where I had to go to. I didn't know what time dinner was, I just know I had just sometime throughout the day, hopefully I show up at this address, and I, and I, and like, hopefully there's a place to sleep. All I did was, I sent you money, and I told you my shoe size. That's all I did. And I showed up, and there was

• 36:24Sam Parr?

  all these amazing people there. And you nailed it. And you did it quickly, and the Airbnb was perfect. We had a chef there, that was perfect. The house, pretty messy. Kind of just, not, not messy horribly, but almost, but borderline, like, this is disgusting. We go and play basketball all day, and you had this amazing trainer at this awesome high school gym that was also perfect. But I'm like, alright, is there any like, drinks here? Like, what do we, what do we do? And it's like, well, there's just a water fountain and some clip bars. And I was like, okay, that's listed ideal. But you know what? That, that doesn't matter. Because I, I appreciate that you just like, you just ordered this shit on Amazon, you go, but that's not the important shit. We're gonna focus on the important stuff. We had a podcast studio there that was already set up, an important thing that we needed. And it was like, kind of like, a little hoodie, a little hood rat

• 37:09Sam Parr?

  setup. And it was fucking perfect. It was exactly what we needed. What, like, the, the people that you selected were awesome. We didn't do any like, real introductions. We just hung out. And you just, you did, I think if you're executing on a project, what you did this weekend was a perfect example of just getting the main things right. Now, in the future, maybe you'll know, or maybe you'll want to like, alright, you know, we should actually have, like, people didn't like, eat this type of food. We should not do that this time. And like, that's the unimportant stuff, though. And it was perfect. What do you, what did you think of Sean's execution? Did I nail it?

• 37:39Ben?

  Yeah, yeah, I think you were a hundred percent right. Nailed the execution. Just everything about it was perfect. Sean, do you think it's something, could you just copy and paste it? Or does it need to be different every time in order to create that feeling of it being special?

• 37:51Shaan Puri?

  I think you could copy paste eighty percent of it and you would change twenty. And so I think that that would be the plan. I want to basically, so I just bought a domain. I'm putting up a website today, mfmcamp.com. And I'm going to put the pictures from this one. I just kind of want to make a blog of where this was, but I'm also going to put a form on there for people who want to come to this in the future. Because half the people who came to this, I didn't know they had reached out when I had first said the idea.

• 38:12Sam Parr?

  I think you should let people apply, but I don't think, you gotta keep it just like twenty, twenty-five people.

• 38:17Shaan Puri?

  Well, I'm gonna, like, you know, unfortunately, really exclusive. I'm gonna do two versions. I'm gonna do the exclusive one, which is like, basically, it's hitters only, right? No small boy stuff there. That's what this one was like, right? Twenty, twenty, twenty-five people in the room. Everybody had their claim to fame, whatever it may be, right? Like, we had one guy, Al, who's built the biggest quilt company in the world. They do over a hundred million dollars a year selling quilt, you know, patches and accessories and stuff like that. And it's like, that's his, that's his, and he bought a town. And he's making it like the quilting, like the quilting hub of America, like a tourist destination for quilters everywhere. Like, the guy's crazy, but he's totally different than the next guy who's done it in a different area, right? So, so I'm gonna do one or two of these a year that are the small twenty-person type of events.

• 39:01Shaan Puri?

  I might even go smaller, I might even go fifteen. I think this was too many people. And then I also want to do one that's like one notch less.

• 39:09Ben?

  The, the D-league.

• 39:11Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it's not the D, it's more like the B, the B-league, right? It's like, that I want to do like a thousand person or five hundred person or something bigger. Maybe not five, maybe not that big, maybe it's two hundred. But that'll be like a retreat somewhere. It's less intimate, less exclusive, but it's still people who are, they're all entrepreneurs. They're all, they've all made their first million, right? According to the podcast, they all listen to the pod, they get the jokes, they get the humor, they get the style. So when they show up, they know the vibe. The vibe, the vibe should be immaculate from day one. And that's what I, that's what I want to do. So that's what I'm thinking of doing out of this. What do you think of that idea?

• 39:43Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I told Kip, the CMO of HubSpot, I go, Sean just did this on his own. Like, you gotta carve out some budget and just let us, let us or let him have this money. And, and we gotta make this happen. This was magical. And he's like, dude, I followed all your guys' picture and Instagram from this. This is amazing. We're in. And, uh, yeah, I think it's a really good idea. You should do a bigger one. That bigger one, the bigger one will be fricking exhausting, but, uh, it'd be fun.

• 40:08Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, totally. I hate events, but the fact that I still want to do this even though I hate events shows me that it's like a good thing to do. Okay, so those were a couple of the things. Can I share a couple of the other kind of like Yeah. takeaways or anecdotes? So one takeaway, a lot of people there were pretty, I'll call it like straight narrow now. Like, it's like, a lot of the conversations were like about their kids. So Nick, who's sweaty startup on Twitter, he goes, he wrote a blog post. Did you read this thing? He goes, I spent the weekend with multimillionaires. Here's what I learned. And he goes, we organized this thing, blah, blah, blah. And he goes, he texted his wife after he's put a screenshot up. He goes, I'm very inspired by a lot of the guys here. Had some incredible, deep conversations with some spectacular people. A few things I am ready to change right away. Number one, I want a therapist.

• 40:52Shaan Puri?

  Number two, I want to bring energy to the kids. I think I need to disconnect from the phone to do that. Number three, I want to drink less alcohol. Number four, I'm ready to bring a positive mindset to being a family man and a dad and nurture that garden in the same way that I've nurtured business and social. And number five, I want to honor you, like treating you like the queen that you are. I'm so lucky to have you, right? It's like, whoa, like, you know, those are some, you know, come to Jesus, you know, sort of thoughts. And I'm glad that, you know, he had that impression. And so he said something, he goes, he goes, here's my takeaways. He goes, we're all dorks. He goes, I was expecting a room full of giants, people with charisma, blah, blah. He's like, don't get me wrong. Some people could tell great stories, but for the most part, everyone was just normal and had like overcome odds. They were just smart storytellers who were really obsessed with their thing. Now, number two, he goes, we all suffer with insecurity, fear of failure and

• 41:36Shaan Puri?

  a general emptiness at times. He goes, I talked to a few guys who enjoyed their success more than five years ago, have been worth 20 plus million for a long time. And they spoke about business as an unhealthy addiction, how it leaves them searching for more and empty feeling after an exit. Others, others talked about their nagging ego and need for more and bigger. Others discussed a constant fear that their career about their career, that they weren't worthy or didn't have have what it took and just general insecurity. Another one, they had lots of kids. A lot of guys spend a lot of time talking about their kids and how they spend a lot of energy in this area. Most of the folks spent a lot of time talking about how they're trying to raise good kids and how they're trying to help their kids embrace the struggle rather than protecting them from it. He goes, very few of them had had new groundbreaking businesses. Most started normal businesses that already existed, not revolutionary technologies. They saw a need and just went after it better than anyone else. Good old fashioned, boring stuff. He talked about the humility is astounding.

• 42:20Shaan Puri?

  Most of the people, money has not turned these people into jerks. They're still mentally tough, still willing to, you know, to slum it. They are humble. They're searching for ways to improve, blah, blah, blah. Most didn't drink alcohol, you know, a couple of us had one or two drinks, but I'm surprised that, you know, this many people were able to, you know, socialize, hang out without using alcohol. It inspired me to do more. Yeah. Basically, he's like, the big question for most people in the room is, what am I going to do with my life? He goes, one last quote, he goes, I talked to somebody who said this. I walk around my house and my office sometimes, just acting like I'm doing things. Then I just go outside, walk around, or I cut wood. He's like, everybody is kind of, you know, on some kind of search. So I thought it was a really good recap.

• 42:59Sam Parr?

  To add to that, most people were really transparent. And so like, we would be like, if we would ask them money questions, like, and they would just say, this is what I have, this is where I put it, this is what I do. And they would be fairly specific, or they would say, no, like, I don't have enough to do this, this and this. Like, we're talking about flying private, like, no, I'm not wealthy enough. I can't do that. I can't afford it. And it was like, oh, or I am wealthy enough to do that. And here's how much I spend, but I didn't do it until I hit this number. Or, you know, like, my wife and I argue about X, Y, and Z, or I'm nervous about my children for these reasons. Or, like, people were really transparent.

• 43:33Shaan Puri?

  Can I tell you a few more Mr. Beast nuggets real quick? Cause I think he was the most like alien of, he was the alien amongst aliens, basically.

• 43:42Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 43:42Shaan Puri?

  So he's got a runner. Do you know what I mean when I say this?

• 43:45Sam Parr?

  No, wait, what? No.

• 43:46Shaan Puri?

  There is somebody 24 hours a day, he's two people, they do 12 hour shifts. Basically, he's got a dude outside the house at all times, just sitting in his car 24 hours a day. It's a personal DoorDash. So if he ever needed something, I don't know if you noticed, he was like, oh, I want to play Settlers of Catan. So he's like, hey, can you go get Catan? And the guy would just run to the store, go get Catan, and bring it back within 15 minutes.

• 44:06Sam Parr?

  What? He was outside our house?

• 44:08Shaan Puri?

  The whole time. And he's outside the studio. Wherever he goes, these two people are there, 12 hour shift seats. So 24 hours a day, he's got somebody just watching his back, ready to go do anything. Like, that's a real, that's like, a really funny, and so he's talking to me, he's like, he's like, yeah, he's like, I don't get it. He's like, all these people here are wealthy, but like, nobody here had that. He's like, why don't, why don't you guys do that? It's like, it's a waste of your time to go do those things, right? Like, if you value your time, why would, why would you? And I was like, I was like, he's like, why do you think that is? And I was like, honestly, I don't think any of us had even thought about it. Like, I was like, I was like, I had never considered this possibility. I didn't know that was a thing. And so it's actually like a trait commonly found with greatness, which is a very matter of fact, simple way of looking at things that is

• 44:51Shaan Puri?

  unafraid of like, how that looks, how that sounds, or like, what it costs. So for example, he reinvests everything into every video. And I was like, okay, so, you know, what's the game plan here? He's like, well, just, you know, like, make the best videos possible. Just put it all in, keep growing it, make this the biggest thing ever. And like, you know, that's my goal. And I was like, okay, but like, you know, what about XYZ? It's like, I told you my goal. So why would I consider XYZ? Like, yeah, were you not listening to the first part where I said, so I call it, I started to think about this, because again, the stunning thing for me was, I had never really met anybody who puts every hour, every dollar, and every ounce of their soul into their wild ambition. That's what I took away from him. It doesn't matter if he was a YouTuber or an

• 45:33Shaan Puri?

  athlete. In fact, the trainer there used to train with Kobe and Kobe's daughter, Gigi, before they passed away. And I was, you know, I was like, dude, I hate to be the guy who asks you for a Kobe story, but like, you gotta tell me a Kobe Bryant story, like, what you got? And he started telling me, I was like, you know, is the work ethic thing legit? Because like, I don't know if you follow this, but like on Reddit, there's these stories where it's like,

• 45:52Sam Parr?

  No, dude, yeah, I sat and listened to that guy talk. He was, he was, that was, that was probably the best storytelling.

• 45:57Shaan Puri?

  So there's these stories about Kobe that you don't know if they're marketing or if they're real, where it's like, Kobe would wake up, like, there's a story like Dwyane Wade, who's another, you know, Hall of Fame basketball player. He's like, yeah, I, we went to the Olympics. That's my first time I got to see how Kobe works, because he was a competitor before that. Now we're on the same Olympic team. He's like, we got to the gym at 6:00 AM. Kobe was already there, like, fully sweating. We're like, what are you doing? We just got here for the 6:00 AM practice. What are you, what are you doing? And he's like, oh, this, like, yeah, I'm ready. I'll be ready in a minute. They're like, well, why are you sweating so much? He's like, oh, I had my first workout at four. I'm just finishing up. I'm gonna join you guys in a second. I'm gonna go get my ankles re-taped and then go back. And, and the guys, so he's got this legendary work ethic. So I was asking the guy, I was like, is it real? He's like, he's like, dude, I thought it was bullshit too. He's like, so I started texting him at four. He's like, he hit me back

• 46:41Shaan Puri?

  right away. The guy was awake. He was at the gym. He's like, it was insane. He's like, he's like, and then I was like, okay, so he's got the crazy work ethic. What else? He's like, he had this ability where if you were in the room with him, he's like, most of the guys I work with, the famous athletes, they're like, kind of like ADD, they're like, If they don't know, if you're not like a bullseye of what they're interested in, they don't think that, they don't look at you as someone they can learn something from, always.

• 47:05Sam Parr?

  Yeah, just normal people.

• 47:07Shaan Puri?

  He's like, so you know, they'll check their phone, they'll look around, they'll talk to you, they'll talk to their manager, they'll talk to this person, they're just, whatever, they're all over the place. He's like, Kobe, if he got in a room with you, you'd feel like there's only you in the room. He would lock eyes, he would not look at his phone, he would not move away, he would ask you questions, he would remember your name. And the name thing was fascinating. Did you hear that story?

• 47:24Sam Parr?

  Where? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:26Shaan Puri?

  The other guy, Luke, tells the story. So he goes, we're at the gym and I, he's like, this first time I ever met Kobe, he's like, we're playing pickup. And I was playing with, I jumped in, he's a good trainer, he's like, I jumped in the game and I missed like six or seven shots. And Kobe just doesn't say anything to me. He's like, after the game, he goes, damn, you, damn, damn, man, you come make a shot or what? And the guy goes, I'm a volume shooter, bro, like you should know. And Kobe like, I mean, he tried to like, kind of basically make fun of Kobe. Kobe's like, the only volume I know is five, like five rings. He's like, that whatever, they had that one interaction, it takes five seconds, they just laugh, move on with life. Three weeks later, he comes back to the gym and the guy walks into the gym and Kobe goes, what up, volume? And just like remembered who he was, remembered his nickname.

• 48:10Shaan Puri?

  And so then the guy was like already impressed with that. He's like, but I, he's like, I'd never talked to Kobe besides, I never told him my name, nothing. He had asked somebody what my name is. So that three weeks later, he goes, he's like, I was leaving and Kobe goes, damn, Luke, you're not gonna say bye? And he's like, you know my name. And secondly, you're stopping, I just didn't want to bother you, like.

• 48:27Sam Parr?

  And the guy was like sneaking out, like just casually trying to leave and Kobe just saw him walking around. I was like, dude, what the hell? Aren't you gonna say goodbye to me?

• 48:34Shaan Puri?

  And so he knew his name, he knew, and he's like, he's like, he remembers everybody's name. And I asked him once, I go, Kobe, like, why do you, like, is that easy for you? He's like, no, it's not that easy. I just make an effort. He's like, why do you, why do you care like to, to learn all these people's names? He goes, because for most people, this is the only time they're ever going to interact with me. And if I remember their name as something so simple and they, not only will they remember it forever, they'll tell everybody they know about this. He goes, so I'm not just remembering, I'm not just like making an impression on them. I'm making an impression on a thousand people throughout their lifetime that they're going to tell this Kobe Bryant story to. And I thought that was so baller and that was the same, the same thing I was admiring about Mr. Beast, I admired about Kobe in that same way.

• 49:14Sam Parr?

  He did an even crazier story where Alex had mentioned like a few weeks prior that his mom's birthday was on a particular date and on that particular date Kobe texted Alex, the trainer, goes, "What's your mom's cell number?" And he FaceTimed the mom, goes, "What's up, mom? You know, I just wanted to say I hope you have a wonderful birthday today." And Alex is like, "I didn't even FaceTime my mom until I had her birthday."

• 49:34Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. So those stories were amazing. Again, those are the moments in between the moments, right? You can't plan for that, but you put a bunch of people in the room and serendipity like that can happen. But the other story that was like that, so, so, so the trait, the thing I was calling Mr. Beast, I was like, "He has a level of commitment that I call kamikaze commitment." He has a kamikaze level of commitment to winning. Kobe had that too.

• 49:57Sam Parr?

  That's our new phrase, bro. Good job.

• 50:00Shaan Puri?

  The Manifest Cowboys and the people who got that kamikaze commitment, the dogs. And so I was like, "How do you compete with a YouTuber like Mr. Beast?" I thought about this. I was like, because I was like, literally, I was like, "Could I fund somebody? Could I just give someone like $5 million to become Mr. Beast?" And I was like, "I don't think it would actually work because not just the talent, there's like, he's not the best looking dude, he's not the funniest guy, he's not, honestly, all the things he knows about YouTube, you could learn, I could tell you everything that he, you know, you need to know about YouTube, than 85% that you would need to know to get pretty far ahead, right? There's the last 15% that'll accrue over time, but like, dude, you did, you need a great clickable title and thumbnail, here's what makes it clickable, the first 10 seconds, you need to hook people and tell them what they're going to get out of

• 50:44Shaan Puri?

  this video, and then you need to visually stimulate them, and then you need to use these cuts, and then you need to introduce a twist in order to keep their attention, and here's the metric you need to care about, right? Like, you could train that. What you can't train is, the guy is willing to put all the money he makes back into the next videos. So like, imagine competing in a business with somebody who's willing to take no, like, they're gonna beat you on price, they're gonna beat you on value, because they're willing to lower their price, that they're willing to reinvest all of their profits into building a better product. So, he's willing to reinvest all of his money and all of his time. Into this and then that compounds. So at first that was really cheap. That was, you know, the first brand that gave him a $10,000, the first brand tried to give him a $5,000 sponsorship.

• 51:27Shaan Puri?

  I don't know if you know the story. They quit, tried to give him $5,000 for the video. He was like, he's like, I talked to the guy on the phone for like an hour, being like, dude, make it 10,000. More people will click. He's like 10,000, just that number 10 grand in the title is going to get way more clicks than five. I don't know why. It just five is not the same as 10 in the title. And so it's like, just give me 10. They're like, dude, we just, our budget is like, I'm not even, I'm going to keep the 10. I'm going to give all 10 away. So the gate, they said yes to 10. He immediately went and gave 10 grand to a homeless guy. And then that video gets like a million views and all the stuff that pays, pays the video off. The advertiser is happy. So then they get 20 grand, 30 grand, 50 grand, 100 grand. And eventually advertisers are willing to pay nearly a million dollars for, to be a part of these videos. But he's willing to take that and port all back in. So how do you compete with somebody who's willing to spend

• 52:09Shaan Puri?

  all of their creative energy and time and all of their money? I think that is like, just kind of awe inspiring to see somebody execute the like sort of kamikaze commitment strategy. I know I'm not willing to do it. Maybe because I'm older.

• 52:21Sam Parr?

  I'm not willing to do it.

• 52:22Shaan Puri?

  I got kids. I'm, I don't know what it is. I don't know what the factors are. It's really that I just, I don't need to, it's like, it's like I said before, like, I think being Olympian, being an Olympian is a trap. Like, I don't need to be a gold medalist. I don't want to be Michael Phelps and give up like 20 years of my life to train every single moment of every single day to become that. Like, that's okay.

• 52:41Sam Parr?

  I don't think, I don't think his lifestyle is fitting for happiness. And maybe, maybe even being fulfilled, but.

• 52:53Shaan Puri?

  And by the way, he would agree. Like he said that himself.

• 52:55Sam Parr?

  Yeah. And he, he said that. And I'm happy that he exists and I know I am not that.

• 53:02Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

• 53:03Sam Parr?

  Those are the two certainties that I have on that.

• 53:05Shaan Puri?

  You know, before, before we went on that trip.

• 53:07Sam Parr?

  Pumped you are real and I, and I, and I, and I am not it.

• 53:10Shaan Puri?

  Face tattoos and cornrows, right?

• 53:13Sam Parr?

  Yeah. If they said music choruses, I'm cool. They, other people have them. Not for me.

• 53:17Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Before I went there, I was like, maybe we should really like double down on you. Maybe we should triple down on YouTube. I was like, I think I could become like the biggest business creator on YouTube. Do I want that? I don't know. And then I, whether when we were there, there was like a 30 minute shoot where he was like a photo shoot for the thumbnail of one of his videos. And I was like, yeah, I don't think I want to do this. Like, I don't think in my day, these are the things I want to spend my energy on.

• 53:41Sam Parr?

  We don't.

• 53:42Shaan Puri?

  I think somebody is willing to do that. Of course, somebody's willing to do that. Many people are willing to do that to win that game. And I was like, I'd rather do a game where I'm willing to pay the price that it takes to get the outcome that I want, rather than try not to do it.

• 53:55Sam Parr?

  You and we, we could play that game, but you don't have to play it his way. You know, his way is a reckless way and it works. There are, there are lots of different examples of people succeeding in different ways. You know, the wealthiest guy there, keep in mind, was basically, he was the wealthiest guy there by a lot, I think. And he played the game totally different than, than Jimmy did.

• 54:17Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. But I think the YouTube game that, you know, like there is a, I think there is a default path. And you'd have to really be saying, I'm going to go try to be an outlier, right? I'm not going to be on, I'm not going to do X, Y, Z.

• 54:27Sam Parr?

  If you want to be.

• 54:28Shaan Puri?

  To be the top. I'm not going to be.

• 54:30Sam Parr?

  Yes. If you wanted to be the top mainstream type of guy, I agree.

• 54:34Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 54:34Sam Parr?

  But there's like.

• 54:35Shaan Puri?

  If we wanted a sweet lifestyle where we're making a few million dollars, are you here doing it? Like, you're right. There's many ways to do that. But if you want to be the top, right? And that's the question I was asking.

• 54:43Sam Parr?

  I agree.

• 54:44Shaan Puri?

  Do I want to try to go for that?

• 54:46Sam Parr?

  No, I don't. But I would, I would, I'd be okay with pretty good.

• 54:52Shaan Puri?

  And doesn't that feel weird when you spend time with people who, who are like, they hear that sentence and they're sort of repulsed? Isn't there a part of you that's sort of like embarrassed to say, I'm okay with just good enough? There's a part of me that's for sure embarrassed to feel that way.

• 55:03Sam Parr?

  There, yeah. And I used to feel so. I used to feel embarrassed about that. And then I realized, I started like reading about Stoicism and I got, went into this Ryan Holiday like deep rabbit hole. And I'm like, oh yeah, we're all gonna die and we're all gonna be bullshit and like just ashes. Like why, I'm not gonna play other people's games. But here's the thing I wanted to wrap up with, as I left that weekend, a little angry at myself because I've experienced envy pretty hardcore. And I experienced like inadequacy of like, you know, a lot of places where I go, I'm the big shot. There, we were the low, we were probably below average in terms of traditional success.

• 55:40Shaan Puri?

  For sure.

• 55:40Sam Parr?

  And I remember being there and I'm like, I am nothing and I should want more and I should achieve more. And I remember feeling that way and I felt guilty that I felt that way. I was like, why, why am I like, you know, why am I feeling envy? This is envy is like the, one of the worst feelings you should, you can have. Envy is in some regards worse than hate.

• 56:01Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 56:01Sam Parr?

  And so like, I remember feeling envy and I was like, I'm falling down the traps. I'm falling, I'm doing it. I'm doing what everyone says you do and we all know you're not supposed to do. And I said forever, I wouldn't feel that way. I made the number that I made and I thought I won't want anymore after that. And I am wanting more and I'm, I'm giving into it. And I felt really guilty about that.

• 56:22Shaan Puri?

  I know exactly what you mean. I'll tell you what worked for me to like, it's like, it's like a hunger pang, right? You can't prevent yourself from feeling hungry, but you can choose how you're going to satisfy that, right? How you're going to address it. And I told, I had come on the pod before when I had visited that person's house that like, they had like a $20 million house. And I was like, wow, this is just incredible. And, and I wasted the first two days, just kind of like being envious and or like bullshitting about why this was like, yeah, but you know, I want to focus a family, you know, coming up with these like other things that like, yeah, this is, this is actually bad for these reasons.

• 56:57Sam Parr?

  Yeah, just cognitive.

• 56:58Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, just like trying to convince myself that I was good. And, and so, you know, and, and what I had come away with there was like, actually, the right way to handle that moment is to just reframe it like, oh, this is sick. I'm getting to sample a set of options to see which one I want. Oh, okay. You have this and you live this lifestyle? Tell me about that. I want to hear about that. I want to just, this is just the, the person walking around at the party with the tray. Oh, yeah, I'll try the bruschetta. Okay. Do I like bruschetta? Is that what I want? Okay. Now let me try the shrimp. Okay. Is that what I want? Is that what I like? So that's how I, that's at this place. I didn't feel the envy per se, because as soon as it came up, I was like, oh, this is cool. I'll be getting, this guy lives in Puerto Rico and does this, this and this. Instead of feeling jealous, I pay so much in taxes and he doesn't. Let me learn about that.

• 57:43Shaan Puri?

  This person has this wild success and they kind of work this one, one week out of a month. All right. Is that what I want? What's that like? You know, tell me about that. You know, like I was getting to sample, which just helps me figure out what do I really want? And I get more broad exposure. But I definitely know what you mean, dude. When it was like, all right, let's go around the circle and like, tell, what's your story? What's your, what's your thing? I'm like, oh damn, my little like, you know, cricket level of success compared to the whales. You know, like, there is a moment where you panic. I've always had this in any group setting where they're like, say your name and you know, an interesting thing about you. It's like, you know, for a moment, my initial reaction is like, there's nothing interesting about me. Not one iota of me is interesting. I should just leave the room. How far away is the fire alarm? What happens if I vomit? Do I have to do this?

• 58:26Shaan Puri?

  Like, you know, like there's that, that happens in three seconds. And then my body's like, oh, wait, what are you doing? What are you talking about? Like, and then I come back to normal. But I, that reaction happens to me in these group settings for sure.

• 58:38Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I, I remember I felt the exact same way. And I was like, I am nothing.

• 58:44Sam Parr?

  It's so, here, it kind of made me feel better when people who I didn't know, told me about my life and I'm like, ah, fucker, you listen, got you. Like, you know what I mean? So.

• 58:54Shaan Puri?

  I gotta tell you this story.

• 58:55Sam Parr?

  That felt a little better.

• 58:56Shaan Puri?

  Totally unrelated story, but you just reminded me of it. It's so hilarious. Once back in the day, me and my buddies used to go gamble a lot. We didn't have much money. We were just fresh out of college. We basically had won a business plan competition and we were like extending the runway by going and playing poker and like trying to like, win a few extra thousand dollars doing it. But sometimes we would lose and so who knows? We probably netted out, you know, slightly down. Anyways, one of the guys, he would play table games where you have no edge. You're, you're going to lose. And so he'd go play craps, whatever. And when he would lose, we'd be like, all right, man, like we should cut it off. And he's like, hold on, let me just go get a coffee to go to the ATM and get more money and come back. And we're like, ah dude, he's a degenerate. We gotta stop him. But we didn't. So we came back up to the hotel room. And he's gone for like another five hours, 5:00 AM.

• 59:40Shaan Puri?

  He comes back into the room and I wake up because I hear the noise and he doesn't know that I'm awake. We're asleep. He doesn't know that I'm awake and he's, he comes up to the, he stands in front of the mirror in the hotel room. Actually, first he goes to the bathroom, changes into the robe, which is always the sign of somebody trying to get their value out of the hotel room because they lost a bunch of money in the casino. A little tip for degenerates. It's when they start using all the shampoos and stuff. They're trying to get back at the casino. So he goes, comes out in a robe. He's looking at the mirror and he just goes, "You suck. You suck." And he just goes, "You fat fuck. You suck." And he just jisses up and he just goes, and he just holds up his hand. He goes, "Five, five iPhones. You lost five iPhones." He's telling himself. And dude, I started laughing so hard.

• 1:00:25Shaan Puri?

  He realizes that we're awake and then it was like, it totally lightened the mood just because of how funny the situation was. And we always reference five iPhone. We always like, if I go gambling, he's like, "How many iPhones?" I'm like, "Three iPhones. I lost three iPhones."

• 1:00:38Sam Parr?

  On a stack of phones.

• 1:00:39Shaan Puri?

  Rappers use like racks, like how many racks did you lose or how many racks did you win? We use iPhones and dude, I'll never forget that story. It was so funny.

• 1:00:48Sam Parr?

  And that's, that's what I was telling myself. A million subscribers. You only have a million subscribers.

• 1:00:55Shaan Puri?

  I remember. Delete your account.

• 1:00:57Sam Parr?

  That, that weekend, you and I, this channel, we hit a hundred thousand subscriber, subscribers. And then I went and looked at Jimmy's numbers and I think he was adding a million a week or sorry, a million a month. I forget what it was or sorry, a hundred thousand a day. It was what he was adding.

• 1:01:12Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, we were like, we just hit a hundred thousand. He goes, "Nice today."

• 1:01:19Sam Parr?

  I remember, that's how I felt. I was like, "Oh, we suck. We suck so hard." I felt that way. Ben, are people, is this, is this going to be a great episode? I, I got so much energy from this.

• 1:01:31Shaan Puri?

  This is definitely self-indulgent, but like, who cares? I needed to debrief this and I would say like.

• 1:01:37Sam Parr?

  Me too.

• 1:01:38Shaan Puri?

  You know, some parts, we're patting ourselves on the back. Some parts were making fun of us ourselves. Sometimes making fun of other people. I hope we weren't hard on anybody, you know? That was a lot of fun and yeah, let's do it again.

• 1:01:50Sam Parr?

  All right. That's the app.