Lessons Learned from Interviewing Tim Ferriss, SaaS Business Ideas for OnlyFans, and More

Episode 395: Sam Parr (@TheSamParr) and Shaan Puri (@ShaanVP) talk about Shaan's interview with entrepreneur, investor, author, podcaster, and lifestyle guru, Tim Ferriss (@tferriss). They review his money and life advice, as well as his new NFT project. Plus, real estate insights and one business idea... plugins and SaaS tools for Only Fans. ----- Links: * Homestead Heritage * Tim Ferriss * Milk Road / Tim Ferriss interview * Cockpunch * Bhad Bhabie * Do you love MFM and want to see Sam and Shaan's smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. * Want more insights like MFM? Check out Shaan's newsletter. ------ Show Notes: (05:05) - Isaac French (09:50) - What Shaan learned from Tim Ferriss (17:35) - Tim Ferriss money advice (37:05) - Real estate insights (51:05) - Only Fans ----- Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. ----- Additional episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto * #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Shaan Puri?

  So he's written, I think, five or six bestselling business books, nonfiction business books, business life hack type books. And if he was going to do just another one of those, it would have been like, okay, cool. Like, you know, going back to the, you know, what butter is your bread? Right? That's that makes sense. But instead, he's like, I'm gonna build like a world like Game of Thrones. He's like, I'm gonna build a whole thing like this. Like, I want to, it's an entire fantasy world. All the characters are roosters. Okay, there's eight houses. They compete in the great games. And they do this like, you know, then, you know, there's a war and there's different classes and this all the, all the things like if you create like a sort of a giant fantasy, like, you

• 0:40Shaan Puri?

  know, Tolkien or, or George R R Martin style thing. And along with it, there's like basically an NFT, which you can buy that basically is not like, is, is literally just like, you're buying a piece of art, and you're buying a ticket into the entertainment of like, watching him build this world out.

• 1:03Shaan Puri?

  What's up? In this episode, we're talking about hanging out with Tim Ferriss, a guy that we've looked up to for a long time, and some of the insights that he he shared with us. We talked about, meeting a real estate billionaire, and his model, how he built from scratch in seven years to about a billion dollars in real estate assets. We talked about the opportunity to build SaaS tools for OnlyFans. You're gonna want to hear that. And then last but not least, Sam's got a friend who's created his own, I don't know, religion, sort of like the Amish people who love money.

• 1:33Sam Parr?

  Kinda, it is almost like Amish people who love money. I'm going to this thing, I'm gonna give a big update on it next week. But in this episode, when we start off, I'll tell you a little bit about it. I think you're gonna dig it. But yes, that's the episode. Listen up. All right, we live.

• 1:47Shaan Puri?

  Can I tell you about an interesting call I had with, with your old pal, Tim Ferriss?

• 1:52Sam Parr?

  I'm so eager to hear this. I only asked you a few questions because I was waiting to hear about this.

• 1:58Shaan Puri?

  So I interviewed Tim Ferriss because he's got like a new NFT project that came out today, or is coming out today. And

• 2:09Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, called cock punch, right? So I was like, okay.

• 2:14Shaan Puri?

  What's that about? And I was like, yo, you should come on the milk road and like, tell your story. And blah, blah, blah. And I've met Tim Ferriss one time in my life. You've met him a lot more than that, I think. Cause he was an investor in the hustle and was kind of like, lived around the same areas here, whatever. But I've met him one time. And I guess I'll, I'll just, I want to tell you three things. One, it's pretty interesting to meet people who you've really gotten to know through their content. What was it? The, the only fans girl who came on here called it the parasocial relationship where it's like, I feel like I know a lot about you and to you, I'm a complete stranger, but you know, I, I feel like we're close friends. Cause I know so much about you and you don't even know who the hell I am. That's how I feel with Tim Ferriss.

• 2:58Sam Parr?

  That's how people feel with you and I, I bet.

• 3:00Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it happens with, with you and I. And, you know, I was like, well, it's just like a weird dynamic. It's not like bad or good. It's like a strange dynamic. It's a natural thing that happens with content like this. So I read the four hour work week when I was in college and I got, you know, before COVID 19, there was the four hour fever and the four hour fever was what happened to you, right? When you read that book, for the next four hours, you question every part of your life and you start fever dreaming about quitting everything, you know, hiring a VA to do your job, going and living in Argentina. And, you know, like basically creating some online passive income business is going to give you 70 K a month. Cause that's your freedom number. And so like, and I know this because everybody I gave the book to,

• 3:43Shaan Puri?

  I'm like, look, you might want to clear the schedule because you're going to have the four hour fever as soon as you're done with this. Like just don't make plans because whatever they are, they're going to get busted by this. And sure enough, that's exactly what happened. So four hour work is one of those books that I found to be really, really

• 3:56Sam Parr?

  life changing.

• 3:57Shaan Puri?

  informative, life changing, especially at the time that I read it. I was 20, 21 years old. Trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. And it was a new, it was somebody saying, yo, here's how I live. And it was totally different than anybody else. Okay. So that's how I knew him. You knew him in a different way. Could you describe how you knew him? And then I want to tell you some of the takeaways I had from this interview.

• 4:17Sam Parr?

  So I initially met him when I, I was coming home at 6am from the hospital after I got a kidney stone. My wife was driving me and I was sitting in the passenger seat and I was super messed up on morphine and all types of drugs. And I pull up to my house and I go, Sarah. What the hell is Tim Ferriss doing in front of our house? And I see him, I go, Tim, what's up, bro? What are you doing here? And he's like, oh, I looked on the blog. I was like, oh, sick. Hey, you got any cures for kidney stones? And I just sounded like a total asshole. And then two days later, I see him again. I go, Tim, what's going on, man? I just want to apologize. I was coming from the hospital. I was all hopped up on drugs, but I'm a huge fan. That's cool that you're, you're, you live around here.

• 4:59Sam Parr?

  And then through that, we just started walking our dogs like in the park every once in a while together. And I would just see him in the park. Then a few weeks later, I get an email from Tim saying, hey, I want to learn about emailing. I like the hustle. Teach me about it. Can you go out, you can, when you meet me at this restaurant in my neighborhood? I go and meet him at that restaurant. And he goes, oh, what the hell? You're the dog guy? I go, what's up, man? He goes, why don't you? And so I basically, he cold emailed me and I never told him who I was. And it was a total coincidence and that's how I got to know him.

• 5:27Shaan Puri?

  So I wanted to say two things. One, I'm going to tell people my philosophy about meeting people that you kind of, you know, admire or you think highly of in some way. And the main trick that I have is I admire parts of people, not the whole.

• 5:45Sam Parr?

  Totally.

• 5:46Shaan Puri?

  And this is a key, key thing that I think a lot of people get wrong. They look at it as a binary yes or no thing. Oh, this person, do you love them? Or do you, do you hate them? Right? Are they the best? Are they the worst? Right? Are they, are they your hero? Or are they not your hero? And I never think like that because when you meet people, you see this like full 360 picture of them. And you're like, oh, like, no, for example, I met Tim Ferriss and he was actually quite quiet in person. The first time I met him.

• 6:11Sam Parr?

  He's super quiet and shy.

• 6:13Shaan Puri?

  He's a little bit introverted or shy. And, um, and then when he did say things, I was like, uh, oh, wow. That's like a little bit of the Tim Ferriss that I, you know, I've, I've heard or followed coming out. But also I was like, you know, even though I love 10 things about this guy, there's a couple of things about him that I wouldn't want to emulate, right? There's six things I'd want to copy. Let's say about the way that Tim Ferriss lives his life. But I was like, oh, you know, something that's really important to me is like, let's say kids are having a family and I don't know if it's important to him or not. I don't know him that well, but he doesn't have that. So I don't want to, I don't want to be him, right? I don't want to be the whole, but there's parts of him that I think are awesome that I would love to steal for my game. And I think about this with everybody.

• 6:52Sam Parr?

  I imagine you like standing over him and he's just sitting down and you're poking him with a stick. And you're like, come on, tell me life hacks.

• 7:01Shaan Puri?

  Come on. Yeah, basically what you did with your kidney stone thing is like, you ever seen, do you have one of these on your feet? What do you do? Yeah. He's just like, I don't know, man, maybe you should ask a doctor. And so same thing with Tony Robbins. I love Tony Robbins, but do I love the whole Tony Robbins? No, I love parts of Tony Robbins. And some people are like, dude, what about that thing he did? And that thing he said, I'm like, ah, I don't, I mean, I don't know about that. And if he did those, that, that would be bad, but I love his public speaking. I think he's amazing at that. And that's what I try to steal from him. Right. Or I love his mindset around X, Y, Z. And that's what I've adopted from him. That's been really helpful. And this other stuff that's either not applicable or not admirable, oh, it's fine. I just don't take that, right? I'm just walking through the farmer's market, picking up little bits and pieces of people

• 7:45Shaan Puri?

  and being like, oh, you know, like Conor McGregor now is like, basically looks like he's like a roid head, you know, like. Coke addict. He's got allegations of sexual assault and he's just coked out or who knows? The guy's nuts. But like Conor McGregor from the years 2015 to 2018. Yeah. You know, what they call the young, hungry Connor? That's the Connor I liked. That was the things I drew a lot from, and I don't let the other stuff really tarnish that because I'm just only looking for the good and the bad. I just say, oh, somebody else can pick that, that bad apple up. I'm not taking that out. All right. So what about Tim? So that's just my general philosophy. Okay. So let me tell you some of the nuggets that I took away from this interview because it was supposed to be, I mean, frankly speaking, it was supposed to be like Tim Ferriss comes on the milk road. That's cool.

• 8:30Shaan Puri?

  That's just sort of like a bucket list item thing for me, but you know, for him, obviously it was a good way to get the word out about his NFT project. So I thought, I went in with like, you know, pretty low expectations. Generally when somebody goes on to like, announce the launch of something, they're kind of just shilling that thing. He didn't do that. So that was kind of cool. And he said a bunch of things that were, I would, I would say life advice or money advice that I thought were interesting. Do you want the money or the life one first? Money. All right, money one. So I was like, Tim, what are you doing? You know, crypto prices are crashing. What are you doing? Um, are you making any adjustments? Do you look at the prices? He's a crypto guy, by the way. Yeah, he said he bought crypto, bought Bitcoin for the first time, but like late 2012, and been accumulating kind of since. He's like, it's a significant thing for me, not like, you know,

• 9:14Shaan Puri?

  not everything, but it's significant. He said last year, Q3 2021, he sold enough to cover, like feel like he kind of covered his cost basis and banked a little bit of a win. And then the rest, he's just like, you know, holding to see how it all plays out. And he was like, he said a couple of interesting things. He goes,

• 9:32Shaan Puri?

  I've made most of my money mistakes selling early, selling too early. And he gave a bunch of examples. He goes, you know, I owned, I was the first advisor in Shopify super early on, and I own pre-IPO shares of Twitter and Facebook. And as soon as they went public, you know, you know, yeah, so they grow, they go public. And, you know, in that first year, they all hit like turbulent times and they, you know, stock went way down. He's like, I just, as soon as the lockup was over, I just sold because stock's going down. I was kind of a novice in public markets, frankly, still a bit of a novice in public markets. I didn't know what to do, so I just sold. All of it? He's like, yeah, all of it. He didn't specify that, but he made it sound like all of it. Wow.

• 10:14Shaan Puri?

  And he's like, those are massive financial mistakes, you know, like selling Facebook, Shopify and Twitter, like right when they went public, you know, six months after is when the lockup ends, is, you know, he's like, these are, you know, hideous financial mistakes that I paid. He's like, and it wasn't because I, he's like, he's like, so I learned what, when do you sell? So he goes, I now go into any position, I only buy if I know what conditions I would sell under. He's like, so most people have no exit plan. They don't know when they would sell, how long they plan to hold, or what would cause them to sell. He's like, I now have a plan when I go in. I know what would trigger me to sell. So if I'm going to deviate from that plan, I better have a really strong reason. Because the second thing is, I don't sell now because, you know,

• 10:58Shaan Puri?

  the price went down. I sell if something I believed before, I now have new information that tells me that's not true anymore, or I'm surprised about. He's like, so for crypto, for example, he's like, I haven't sold, but I haven't sold not because I'm like, you know, more confident than ever. He goes, frankly, I just haven't done the homework to go figure out where any of my initial assumptions wrong. I haven't done that homework yet. And he's like, that's what I'll do. I'll go talk to my smart friends, the ones who helped me get into this, and I'll say, you know,

• 11:26Shaan Puri?

  Is there anything that you used to believe that you no longer believe about crypto? Or anything that any red flags that have come up for you that didn't go in line with your initial hypotheses? I want to hear those before I make a decision on what I want to do. I thought that was extremely reasonable and I thought that the, the sort of selling early mistake is something that, you know, I, I've shared on the pod too, that, you know, like I sold Tesla early when there was like, you know, I basically lost five million, I lost out on $5 million had I held. But I, you know, there was a bunch of bad news and I didn't know what to do. And so then I just sold, right?

• 11:56Sam Parr?

  And by the way, for the Shopify example, it looks like six months after it was around $2.50 a share. At its peak, at its peak, peak, it was $150. So that's something like, you know, a million dollars of shares that he had, which he definitely could have had, would have been like $50 million, uh, which is like very substantial.

• 12:17Shaan Puri?

  And so, you know, he was pointing out, you know, my mistakes in investing haven't been buying the wrong thing. The biggest mistakes have been selling the right thing too early. And, you know, I think that might be, you know, he's like, and I don't know if this applies to everybody, but he's like, for me, that has been, you know, some of my largest kind of missteps.

• 12:35Shaan Puri?

  Okay. So then the second thing, he was talking about, uh, this project that he's doing, this NFT project. And I was like, so this is kind of crazy. I don't know if you know what he, do you know what he's doing?

• 12:42Sam Parr?

  So I know that he's always been interested in nonfiction writing, or sorry, fiction writing. Like he's always wanted to write like stories and for some reason he hasn't until now. And I think this is like his first fictional story or book or series of podcasts and it comes with an NFT, right?

• 12:59Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. So he's written, I think, five or six bestselling business books, nonfiction business books, and business life hack type books. And if he was going to do just another one of those, it would have been like, okay, cool. Like, you know, going back to the, you know, what butter is your bread, right? That's, that makes sense, but instead he's like, I'm going to build like a world, like Game of Thrones. He's like, I'm going to build a whole thing like this, like I want to, it's an entire fantasy world. All the characters are roosters. Okay. There's eight houses. They compete in the great games and they do this like, you know, then, you know, there's a war and there's different classes and this all the, all the things like if you create like a, a sort of a giant fantasy, like, you know, Tolkien or, or George R R Martin style thing.

• 13:43Shaan Puri?

  And along with it, there's like basically an NFT which you can buy that basically is not like, is, it's literally just like, you're buying a piece of art and you're buying a ticket into the entertainment of like watching him build this world out. It's a book, like one book? It, it's not a book. It's like, I think it's just like long. He's like, I've written 10,000 words, but I don't think he's going to release it like a book. I think he's going to release it in some other way, like essays or chapters or podcasts and like other, he's playing with different formats. I don't think he knows exactly how he wants it to come out yet. So anyways, pretty interesting. I was like, dude, so why are you doing this? He's like, well, he said a couple nuggets. He goes, you know, I'm having the most fun when I'm creating something and that's what gets me into flow state.

• 14:27Shaan Puri?

  And so he's like, so I knew I wanted to create something and I wanted to, if I just did another nonfiction book, I don't feel like I would have that magical feeling of being challenged and satisfied at the same time. Yeah.

• 14:40Shaan Puri?

  And so he goes, he goes, I talked to the guy from, who did Stephen Pressfield, who I think wrote, The War of Art. Yeah.

• 14:49Shaan Puri?

  And he goes, he goes, you know, he has this concept of a muse, which is like the project you're working on or like, you know, the, the thing that you're, you're, you're playing with. And he goes, you're doing your muse a disservice if you don't go big. And he goes, so I decided like, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to go big. And he goes, big is not,

• 15:09Shaan Puri?

  I have to write like an 8,000 word book or whatever, like a 8,000 page book, like that's, big doesn't mean like literal volume. Big means I have to go to a point where I'm uncomfortable with this and my friends are calling me and they're saying, Tim, are you okay? Sure. This is what you want to do? And he's like, that's how I know that I've like pushed it into a realm that's like something interesting is going to happen. And that's how I feel with this.

• 15:31Shaan Puri?

  What's up with this podcast? What do you mean?

• 15:33Sam Parr?

  No, with him coming up with a nonfiction thing called or a fiction thing.

• 15:37Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, you want to call him and be like.

• 15:38Sam Parr?

  I'm like, yeah, I'm like, you know, you have nothing to lose here because like, you know, you're set, you're fine. And if this is creative, that's cool. But like, it's kind of weird. What are you? What are you doing, man? Like, are you okay?

• 15:50Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. And he goes, that's when I'm gonna basically do the things that are off the beaten path, something that I haven't done before, something that is new and interesting and novel. And so that's how he was talking about this thing. I was like, okay, I love that advice. The second thing he said, I love was along those lines. He goes, he goes, I go, so I go, what if we're just sitting here like, you know, a year from now, just got a beer? We're like, dude, what happened with cock punch, man? That story was that was gonna be that project was crazy. Like, where did it all go wrong? Like, if it all goes wrong, what do you think your answer will be if we're looking back at it a year from now? And it's just like, yeah, that went that went totally wrong. What is the core risk? He goes, I've thought about this a lot. It's a good question. He goes, if I end up managing

• 16:32Shaan Puri?

  the project instead of creating it, I think it will have all gone wrong. And he goes, because A, he goes, he goes, anything great comes from, you know, staying at it. He goes, so I have to do the things that give me energy because without the energy, there is no endurance. And that like really resonated with me. He was like, you know, with no energy, there is no endurance. He goes, so I gotta spend my time on the things that give me energy. For me, that's drawing and that's creative writing. So I have to do those parts. That's also the parts that those are my superpowers. That's what I'm good at. And I'm good.

• 17:04Sam Parr?

  He draws like, like, like he did the animations?

• 17:07Shaan Puri?

  Was like illustrations and comics. Like, that's how he paid for college and stuff like that. Yeah, he's like a sketch artist. And I think that's what he originally wanted to do was be a cartoonist in some way.

• 17:14Sam Parr?

  What a fascinating person.

• 17:15Shaan Puri?

  And so he was like, you know, those are my superpowers. I gotta spend the time on that. If I just end up spending time managing this thing, and it feels like a lot of administrative work, I know that for me, that gives me no energy, therefore no endurance, therefore I won't stay, stay with it. Therefore, the great things won't happen. I thought the self-awareness was really key. And this is something that I know, as I think about my next projects, these are the types of like, You need to have like these strong ass pillars or tenets of like, this is what it, this is what I am doing and this is what I'm not doing. And if I do this, I think it'll work. And if I don't do this, I know that I will have trouble. And I think that self-awareness was pretty baller.

• 17:49Sam Parr?

  Dude, that's awesome. He's, he's always been a pretty wise person, even like, you know, I think he wrote Four Hour Work Week when he was maybe a little bit younger than you and I, like, he might've been only 30 when he wrote it. And he always was pretty wise, man. He's, he's, he's always had like interesting insight. And that's a really good insight about the energy and the endurance thing.

• 18:07Shaan Puri?

  He had another one that goes, he goes, I go, so, um, I was on the topic of failure. He goes, he goes, I should first say that I kind of rigged the deck in my favor. And I was like, what do you mean? And he goes, you know, I, um, I go into a project thinking, how do I win even if this fails? How do I succeed even at the sales? And so he goes, I think about it in terms of, sure, there's the like, you know, um, do a lot of people read this thing? And, you know, does this become popular or does it become financially successful? Sure, those are things, but like, he's like, I want to win even if those hard things don't happen. So he goes, I will only pick projects if I know that the act of doing it, the creative process of doing it is going to be awesome.

• 18:52Shaan Puri?

  If the people I'm going to meet along the way doing this are going to be awesome. And if the skills that I'm going to develop doing this are going to make me more awesome. And so he goes, if I do those three things, if I know that the skills, the knowledge and the network that I acquire along the way is going to make it worth it for me, then I don't have to stress about the, the popularity of financial income because I'm going to win in either case. I'm going to win if, if just those things happen, or I'm going to win even bigger if the other happens. So he goes, I pick projects where I can stack the deck in my favor. And that's what I've done here.

• 19:21Sam Parr?

  And is this still the life or the money advice or the life one?

• 19:25Shaan Puri?

  Now we're in the life advice. Yeah.

• 19:26Sam Parr?

  Dude, he's good, man. He's a really interesting guy. I, uh, what's he doing now? So he just like, is he, is he treating that as like, that's been his like 40 hour work week? Like, that's been his job, job, uh, for.

• 19:37Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, he's been, he's just going ham on this for like, you know, close to a year now. And he's like, dude, I've just put so many, so many hours into this. He's like, yeah. And which is funny because people. Are criticizing like, oh dude, you're doing an NFT or just like another celebrity doing an NFT. It's just a cash grab. And I like, I told him this on the call. I was like, dude, that's crazy to me. First of all, he's donating a hundred percent of the proceeds to like his charity that does like the research on like psychedelics and stuff like that to treat PTSD. So, so all the primary sales are going there, right? Uh, so that's like, you know, most, you know, that's a huge chunk of the financial reason you would do it. Uh, the second thing is, um, if you just count like the number of hours it takes to do this world building type of thing, like he's gotta be working for minimum wage, basically just in terms of the number of hours it takes to create something like this.

• 20:21Shaan Puri?

  And third, if he was gonna do a cash grab NFT, he would have done it last year. He wouldn't be launching it now and he wouldn't be giving away the money to charity and he would be like doing it in a way that's like not, doesn't require him to like build out this whole fictional world. Like he would just be like, hey, here's a picture or hey, meet this, you know, this gives you five minutes to talk to Tim Ferriss, right? That's what he would do is just like a cash grab if he wanted to do it. And so I thought that was like, you know, dude, the funny criticism.

• 20:46Sam Parr?

  Tim has like a really interesting celebrity. Ryan Holiday has this too. And I know I've known a few guys that have had this where there's people I look up to, and then there's people who the people I look up to, look up to. So like Ryan and Tim, they both get like all these football coaches, all these like politicians, these rich billionaire types, all these interesting, like powerful, traditionally powerful people will reach out to them and like, hey, sensei, show me the way. What can I do about this? What should I do next? And I have always found that type of celebrity to be incredibly fascinating. And so like, I mean, he'll, Tim will like, not in a bad way, but he'll like name drop all these stories like on the pod. I'll be like, yeah, you know, I was with Ed Norton recently and he was telling me like this, this and this. And I was

• 21:31Sam Parr?

  trying to help him like figure out what to do. You know, like he like tells these stories or is like, when I was with Jamie Foxx, he was asking me about this. And I've always found that celebrity to be so fascinating. I've always wondered what his life is like.

• 21:42Shaan Puri?

  I also, I asked him another question. I go, you know, you're one of the most like prolific interviewers. You've done, I don't know, 600 episodes of, of interviews on your podcast. It's one of the top, I don't know, five or 10 podcasts in the world. And, um, I say, I go, you know, if you had a chance to sit down with Sam Bankman Fried, uh, and interview him, you got a couple hours with him, how would you approach it? And I thought his answer was pretty interesting. So he goes, He goes, it's a tricky one because I don't know going in, how much of what he's going to tell me is the truth or a lie. And so he goes, but I'll tell you how I would approach it, given that that's the problem. He goes, first, I would, my goal initially is just to get him

• 22:24Shaan Puri?

  off of his party lines, get him off of his PR script. And so he's like, I would go and I would try to talk to as many of his old friends and coworkers as I can and ask them, yo, if I, if you, you know, you must be surprised at what's happened here. If you could ask Sam one question, just genuinely heart to heart, what would you want to know the answer to that? I can maybe ask on your behalf. And then he's like, I'd get those. He's like, then in the interview, I would use their name to kind of soften soften them up a little bit. I talked to James, who, you know, was your college roommate and knew you before any of this stuff, right? When you were just a guy, blah, blah. He said he would want to know this, like, what would you say to James? Because it's like saying to James versus saying to Tim, I think is like interesting. So I thought that was an interesting tactic. He goes, that

• 23:04Shaan Puri?

  gives me good research, but also maybe can get him to just like deviate from the same repetitive loop of answers he's going to give to everybody else. He goes, the second thing is, he goes, I'd be pretty direct. I go, what percent of what you say, you know, before we do this, what percent should I assume is true of the things that you're going to tell me? Is it 100? Or is it less than 100? And like, you know, if it's less than 100, I understand that. But why? And he goes, another version of that would be, you're doing a lot of media. What do you, what do your lawyers think of what you're doing? He's like, because it might make him laugh and get him to kind of talk about his motivations for why he's even doing an interview like this. Because it seems kind of counterintuitive to be doing

• 23:46Shaan Puri?

  all this stuff. No lawyer would tell you to go, go and do this stuff. He goes, the last thing, he goes, he goes, you know, I would, he goes, I would, he goes, I just want to know the guy's fundamental beliefs, because it seems like he's not stupid. He's got good hardware upstairs. And that's why I want to know what his beliefs are. You know, am I just supposed to assume that he's just a bad person? He was a criminally minded person? And for a long time, he planned to do this criminal behavior? Or was he, did he have the right intentions? And then somewhere along the way, made a bad ethical decision under some stress or pressure, and that led him down a path of making the wrong decisions? You know, like, and he's like, that's what I'd be trying to figure out. And, you know, I would try to.

• 24:29Shaan Puri?

  To understand, you know, his, you know, his thinking around that and tell him that's what I want to know. I want to understand that. I thought that was pretty cool.

• 24:36Sam Parr?

  So I'll, I'll wrap up with one last story about Tim. So then this, what you're saying kind of like he'll, he'll say these things sometimes in interviews as if he's coming off the cuff or that he's like just thinking out loud. I have never met someone like him who prepares for everything. He prepares for every single thing. And this is quite different than you and I. You and I are totally cool improvising and you would think someone like him who's interviewed all these people or has talked publicly for so many hours that they can improvise. Maybe he can, but from my experience, he is not someone who improvises and he, everything he says, the words are chosen very, very specifically.

• 25:18Sam Parr?

  And so you like, he'll say this line, like, oh, I don't play a doctor on TV and I don't pretend to do that. Like he'll say that line and like, that's just like, he must've heard that somewhere. He's like, okay, that's actually a good line to get, that's a good brand message.

• 25:31Shaan Puri?

  Disarm.

• 25:31Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I'm going to keep saying that. And so another thing that he'll do is like, one time I interviewed him for the hustle and I interviewed him on the phone and then I transcribed it. And there was a couple instances where I made an error. So he was right to yell at me and he didn't yell at me, but he was just like, no, this is, that's not what I said. And we're talking about like, I, I would write the word hadn't instead of had not. He said had not, and I wrote hadn't. So I was in fact wrong. And he like very specifically called that out. And he did that so, or he's like, no, there shouldn't be a comma here. There should be a period and then a new sentence or like these like incredibly, incredibly.

• 26:07Shaan Puri?

  If he did that, then he's going to be pretty pissed at this interview because I definitely like, you know, move stuff around to help him.

• 26:13Sam Parr?

  No, he does not like that. And I don't blame him. He is so specific about his brand. And in fact, if you go and see that, like, for example, there's this conference called 212 that I went to and Tim went and he gave a testimonial for it. And if you read the testimonial, it's very specific where in his head, he's like, well, I can't endorse anything like, but I, but I can't say is, you know, Adam hosted a great conference. They're wonderful. He's, he's a wonderful person. Or like, like, you know, like some people will ask us, you and I, like, I've asked you to do a testimony for something and you're like, just write whatever. Uh, no, not him. Everything about his brand, like what you see out in public and what he writes. He is very specific and it's all incredibly well thought out. So like, we almost had him speak at a conference or something like that.

• 26:58Sam Parr?

  And we just like, went through, we just started chatting about it. And he was like, wanting to know exactly who all was there. And I'm like, what do you mean, dude? Why does it matter to you? Just like fucking wing it, just talk. And like, that's not his style at all. Like it, it was all incredibly precise, well thought out. It's all, and everything had a purpose. And I've, I've always found that to be very admirable about him. Because I remember being pissed off when he, he didn't yell at me, but like, he kind of like had a tone where he's like, no, that's not what I said. This is what I said. And I remember being upset about that. And then I was like, no, man, he's right. He's, he, he has a brand and he's sticking to it. And I always thought that was really interesting.

• 27:32Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, well, all right, Tim, I'm sorry. I did, uh, definitely chop and chop up the interview to, to try to make it shorter and better.

• 27:39Sam Parr?

  Went to go live, went to go live.

• 27:41Shaan Puri?

  It's, it's already live, too late.

• 27:43Sam Parr?

  Tell me if he replies to you. That's going to be the follow up. I bet you he will. He, he, he's very specific about it and I, and I appreciate that.

• 27:50Shaan Puri?

  You're right. I had told him, I was like, um, he's like, he's like, yeah, I'll do it. Uh, you know, just send me the questions in advance. So I want to make sure I can prepare and do, do the best job I can. And I was like, well, I don't know the questions I'm going to ask you. So, uh, okay, I guess I'll do the work now. And so I did it. And then he's like, okay, cool. Uh, for this question, I think we should do this and this on this. But I was like, wow, this is like way more in depth than anybody. And then even during the thing, he's like, he's like, did audio video test earlier? Blah, blah, blah. It should be good. Cause he's like, you know, whatever, in some foreign country right now. And he's like, you know, I, um, and then on some of the answers, he's like, okay, stop. Can we, um, can I redo that? I think I was not being clear there. And then he would like do it again. And I was like, wow, we're so different, but I get why being the way that you are,

• 28:35Shaan Puri?

  leads you to have the type of brand and, and success that you have. I am so different than that. I am like, you know, Complete. I'm basically like the equivalent of a food fight and he's like a Michelin star restaurant.

• 28:48Sam Parr?

  Exactly. It's so fascinating.

• 28:50Shaan Puri?

  Throwing mashed potatoes around and getting it everywhere. And he's like, you know, got that perfect plate.

• 28:55Sam Parr?

  Dude, I remember we were with our dogs, like walking and I go, oh, that's a cool dog leash and like, or like cool dog collar or something. And he, and I was expecting him to be like, oh yeah, God, Amazon's pretty great. He was like, oh, this thing, you see, this comes from like this rare, like African horse hair and like, he had like some in-depth story about it. And that was my, and then I noticed every time something like we had these conversations, everything about his life, it felt very purposeful, high intent.

• 29:23Shaan Puri?

  Intentional.

• 29:23Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I thought that was fascinating.

• 29:26Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, that's cool. It really highlights like, it's like you see a 12 out of 10 at being very intentional. And then you're like, oh, wow. I thought I might've been an eight or a nine. Actually, I'm a four.

• 29:38Sam Parr?

  Totally. He's very specific.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  Our software is the worst. Have you heard of HubSpot? See, most CRMs are a cobbled together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous. I think I love our new CRM. Our software is the best. HubSpot, grow better.

• 29:58Sam Parr?

  All right. You want to do another one of yours?

• 30:00Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, let's do some other topics. Okay. So, uh, where do you want to shift to? Maybe some ideas?

• 30:06Sam Parr?

  What's Spotify interesting or real estate insights? I'm interested in that. You said maybe, but.

• 30:12Shaan Puri?

  All right. Let me give you the real estate thing real quick. So I talked to somebody, I can't say their name, but.

• 30:18Sam Parr?

  I like where this is going.

• 30:19Shaan Puri?

  Who has had, who has built, I would say in the last seven years, I think it is, yes, seven years. They've built a real estate portfolio owning about a billion dollars of real estate assets where with 40% debt. So 60% is equities, about 600 million of equity in these properties. And.

• 30:40Sam Parr?

  Do I know this person?

• 30:41Shaan Puri?

  Started seven years ago, um, from zero and has zero ability to like zero networks, zero ability to borrow, only like skills. They knew, they thought they knew what they were doing and they were able to build this up.

• 30:53Sam Parr?

  Okay.

• 30:53Shaan Puri?

  So I was talking to him and I was like. I was like you'd and he does retail in a specific, he does retail real estate. So basically, or I guess in their world, they would call it commercial estate. But what I mean is like retail stores. So he'll buy a shopping center and the shopping center will have a, you know, a hobby lobby and, you know, a Starbucks and whatever. And there's like, you know, six spots and he'll basically own that center. And then he'll, he'll get it at least buy it, he'll build on it. He'll lease it up and then he'll either hold it or sell it after that. And he's basically compounded his money. I think about, I was doing the calculations afterwards. He's compounded his money about like 60% a year for like seven years, something like that.

• 31:38Shaan Puri?

  Even maybe a little bit more. And so I think 60% was the minimum that I calculated it was, was possible for where he was at. I think it's, is a little bit, a little bit north of that. And I was like, dude, I was again, I was like, first of all, this is crazy. Congratulations. Second of all, my worldview is that like dude, shopping centers, like, is this still a thing? Like, aren't you, is this not dying? Like in my world, in the tech world, we're just like, everything's going online. Everything's e-commerce. You know, you're going, you're swimming against the current. And I go, am I just wrong about that? Or what's going on? How do I?

• 32:15Sam Parr?

  I mean, the hobby lobby folks are always going to need a lobby to hobby, bro. Like they're, they're, they're, they're going in real life, like.

• 32:22Shaan Puri?

  So, so that's what he said. He goes, you're right. He goes, but there are some specific trends, some specific categories that are going completely anti trend and expanding.

• 32:32Sam Parr?

  Like Home Depot, probably.

• 32:34Shaan Puri?

  Cause I go, I go, how does it work? He goes, I go, what's your edge? Like, what are you doing differently than anybody else? Cause you're getting a dramatically better result than anybody else I know in real estate. He goes, well, I'll get a call from, you know, the owner of, you know, whatever Dollar General or something like that. And they'll say, hey.

• 32:51Sam Parr?

  Literally, well, not the owner, like, like an executive, like someone, an executive there, you mean?

• 32:55Shaan Puri?

  Could be the CEO, could be the head of, of real estate, whoever, somebody, somebody at the top of these companies. And they'll say, look, we're trying to get into Lexington, Kentucky. You know, we want to be in that geo and we are, we want more stores in that geo. Can you make this happen? And I'm like, and he's like, so then I go make it happen. I go, no, no, no, slow down, slow down. I go, so what, why do they call you? He's like, well, they've done business with me. I'm like, okay, great. But like, why aren't they just calling a broker like, or somebody in Lexington? And he's like, He's like, he started laughing. He's like, uh, he's like, you know, or even more specifically, I'm like, so then you have to find the right location. He goes, no, sometimes they'll just tell me, we want to be in this location. I was like, then why don't they just contact the guy from there? Like just do the deal. And he's like, I'm like, they have, these companies have real estate teams.

• 33:41Shaan Puri?

  He's like, oh, he's like, yeah, they do. He's like, but he's like, three things. He goes, number one, most of the owners of these places are like a pain in the ass for them to deal with. He goes, they know I'm easy to do business with. Why? Most owners don't want to invest in their properties. They won't do any tenant improvements. I will invest money to build out the stores the way they want. Um, and because I've been willing to do that, they want, they would prefer to work with me over any other developer or like the average developer, because I have shown that I can build fast and I will invest my own dollars into building it. Okay. Second thing. And I go, but doesn't that guy just think like, man, if I just did this? He goes, yeah, but it's speculation. He goes, I know because I have these relationships, I know they'll come through. That owner would have to like on spec invest in, in maybe improving some part of their property in order to make it

• 34:26Shaan Puri?

  more inhabitable. I'll just do it.

• 34:27Sam Parr?

  And by the way, so he gets the Hobby Lobby like interest, then he can go get a loan and tell the bank, hey, I got interest, uh, in this there for you.

• 34:35Shaan Puri?

  Not even that. He'll, he'll get the interest, then he'll go tie up the property. He'll commit to buy it, but he doesn't have to have the money right away. He has 90 days, whatever. He's got to like close the thing, 30 days, 60 days, whatever it is. And in that time, he then goes, he gets Hobby Lobby to sign the lease. Then he goes to the financiers. He says, here's the, here's a property with a signed 10 year lease from a, you know, from a highly reputable client. Can I now get financing?

• 34:59Sam Parr?

  It sounds like the best business ever.

• 35:02Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 35:02Sam Parr?

  And they're like, oh, Hobby Lobby's not going out of business anytime soon. You have a 10 year tenant? Yeah, this is an easy, this is all easy.

• 35:08Shaan Puri?

  So then he was like, he's like, I was like, okay. So, okay. I kind of buy that the mom and pop owner of these, like, you know, they own like one or two shopping centers, three shopping centers. They're not like, they're more scared than they are, more fearful than they are greedy. They're not investing in it. Okay. I buy that. Some people might fall into that. What else? What are your other edges? He goes, I don't die by paralysis by analysis. He goes, these guys will. Something on page seven of the lease will get them all tied up. He goes, they'll just get like some covenant they're really worried about. He goes, I have like basically like a standardized deal with these guys. My leases are like clean and simple. And like, you know, I'm willing to bear some risk. These are not like the most ironclad, bulletproof. Every, every inch of every part of my body is covered and can't be exposed.

• 35:51Shaan Puri?

  He's like, you know, I just don't die by paralysis, by analysis. Like these guys will just die in the deal making process of the lease. Cause they get worried about stuff that really doesn't matter. I've been doing this for long enough that I understand. Look, if things go wrong, I have a plan B, a plan C, plan D. I don't have to make plan A, this completely fully insured thing. Okay, that's interesting. Tell me more. And he goes, he goes, the other thing is that um, uh, they will have like, um, he gave me some other deal making points, but I'll leave those out. Some of those are, you know, maybe a little like, I don't know, personal or secretive, I guess. But I go, okay, what about these tenants? I go, who are these people? Who's trying to expand? I thought the whole retail landscape is like shrinking and collapsing. Uh, and Amazon's killing everybody. He goes, yes, but there are certain categories.

• 36:35Shaan Puri?

  So he goes, anything DIY. So Hobby Lobby is an example of this. DIY, people like to go in, they like to see the stuff. They like to have the stuff and they need a bunch of inventory in a big space. Um, so they're willing to rent these big stores. He goes, another one, anything that caters to the black and Latino community. He goes, for some reason, those groups are not buying online as much as, you know, white, white or Indians or other, other races. What stores are those? They're not buying online, their stores are still thriving. And he goes, and I asked them, you know, like, why do you think, uh, it'll be like, um, Burlington Coat Factory? Got it. Or, uh, things like that. He's like, for Burlington Coat Factory, he's like, a lot of these places, they're not just like, oh, I just need a shirt. Let me go buy the shirt. Okay. If you wanted to do that, Amazon might be more convenient or ordering online might be more convenient. Like I need a coat today.

• 37:20Shaan Puri?

  For a lot of these communities, it's a hangout. It's like, this is the one place we go when we leave the house. We go for an outing and we go to this place. And, um, he's like, so that is like a big piece of like, it's like part of their lifestyle is to go to stores and hang out. And, you know, do the whole, do the whole nine. He's like, so those stores are all thriving. He goes, the third one is anything that's like super low end. So dollar store, um, style, style things, because they're actually cheaper than online and they don't have to have the shipping problems. And so people, if, if you want the lowest price, that's still the place to go. Fourth is he goes, like your wife and my wife, Home Goods and Home Improvement. So go to Home Goods. It's like, he goes, they're treasure hunter, treasure hunt experiences.

• 38:00Sam Parr?

  So what's that like a TJ Maxx or Home Goods?

• 38:03Shaan Puri?

  TJ Maxx, Ross, Marshalls, Home Goods, things like that. He goes, they go because there's a joy in finding an amazing deal.

• 38:12Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 38:12Shaan Puri?

  And so they, they don't want the most efficient experience where they just go online and they just buy the thing and they're done. There's this actually like the joy of the hunt. So they want to go to this big messy store and they want to find gems and they want to do that. And again, that's their outing and that's their fun, that's their hobby. And so the retail store still really matters. And so he gave me this like list of categories that were like still expanding. And I thought that was pretty interesting. It's like some of the, the nuance that you don't really pay attention to, unless you're like in that field. And so I just appreciated kind of talking to somebody.

• 38:41Sam Parr?

  That's super fascinating.

• 38:42Shaan Puri?

  Knows their stuff in that area.

• 38:43Sam Parr?

  How many people work at this person's company? Like less than a dozen?

• 38:47Shaan Puri?

  No, it's probably like somewhere between 20 and 30, I would say overall.

• 38:52Sam Parr?

  Man, that seems like, it seems too boring for me. Like I, I think I would, I, for some reason I pick things that probably make less money, but are more dopamine hit.

• 39:01Shaan Puri?

  Generally boring, but they do high deal volume. He said he had done like 80 or a hundred transactions this last year, which is just, and that's a doing a, a real estate deal every three days, basically. Which is just an insane amount of volume. And he's like, there's a reason that's not normal, but like the whole real estate world has shifted. So I needed to shift my portfolio accordingly. Like what are my, what are my generational holds? What are my, you know, quick, quick opportunistic buys? And then what are my B properties that I need to offload because interest rates are changing and the real estate market's about to, you know, crash. So I need to do this. He goes, I remember, he goes, I remember in 08, I was the guy who was like, I'm going to do real estate. Like, cause real estate had been good for like, you know, eight straight years.

• 39:45Shaan Puri?

  He's like, so I was running into the burning tunnel and people were just handing me properties. I'm like, wow, this is incredible. He goes, now I realize you want to be the guy on the way out. And hey, here you go, bud. Have fun, have fun with this property. Yeah, it's all the papers, all the numbers are good because the last five years have been fantastic. Last seven years have been fantastic, but the next seven years might not be the same. And he's like, you know, I know now he's like, now I've learned which, which way to go in the tunnel when it's burning.

• 40:10Sam Parr?

  What skills or attributes does this person have you think that sets them apart?

• 40:15Shaan Puri?

  Extremely aggressive.

• 40:17Sam Parr?

  They are, they're aggressive.

• 40:18Shaan Puri?

  When you talk, when you talk to them, you almost feel like at any given moment, like,

• 40:24Shaan Puri?

  it's like, are we, are we, are we laughing or are we fighting? What's happening here? They're a very friendly person. It's not that, nothing wrong with that, but they are aggressively minded, where it's like, we play to win. Like, the way they raise their kids is to win. It's like, like, their kids, like, you know, if they do something bad, they don't go to timeout, they do 20 burpees. And it's like, you know, that's like, it's like standards. Like, okay, before dinner, we're gonna go run wind sprints. And then like, that's just how we do things before dinner. And like, girls, boys, two-year-old, 10-year-old, doesn't matter. Like, whoever you are, this is how we, how we roll.

• 40:58Sam Parr?

  Well, now your back's gonna hurt. You just got lawn, lawn care duty. Yeah, I mean.

• 41:03Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. Like, there's a, there's just a play to win mentality. That's the first thing. Second thing is giant, giant chip on shoulder. Massive insecurity, daddy didn't love me, daddy was mean to me, people said I wasn't shit. People said I would never be something. Hold on to that, use that as fuel.

• 41:26Shaan Puri?

  And that same thing that kind of like, and you know, they'll say like, yeah, that stuff doesn't bother me anymore. It's like, yeah, but you've brought it up to me eight times in the last three years. So like, I think there's, like, you haven't let it go, that's for sure. You know, I think you've used it to a very, very productive end, for sure. But that, that chip on your shoulder is like, you know, what do they say? Chip on shoulder equals chip in pockets? Chips in pockets? That's, that's what's happening. So that's the second trait. Third is amazing at deal making, negotiation, deal making, gift of gab.

• 41:59Shaan Puri?

  Spends very little time in front of computers, spends a lot of time in front of people or on the phone. Tons of time on the phone. And like, I feel like for our generation, like, how much time do you?

• 42:08Sam Parr?

  Dude, I fucking hate talking on the phone. I just click in.

• 42:10Shaan Puri?

  Talking to, you know, potential business things on the phone. I spend essentially zero. And in fact, if, even if there's a business opportunity, they're like, hey, I'd love to do a call. Like, I just tell them straight about, hey, I hate doing calls. But if you write it down, like, I'm happy to respond.

• 42:23Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I wouldn't even listen to it, just to like a voice memo. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not doing any of that.

• 42:29Shaan Puri?

  That's hilarious. Um, yeah, so this person spends a lot of time on the phone and they do that to gather tons of info and they'll just, if they're like driving a bunch, they'll just dial. Okay, I'm driving four hours to go see this property. In that time, I'm going to make 14 phone calls or whatever. And I'm, hey, brother, what's going on? What you seeing? Oh, what happened to that property you had out there? Oh, having trouble? Well, send me the numbers. Let me take a look. Maybe I can help you out, blah, blah, blah. You know, like, and they're just constantly surfacing opportunities or information. Oh, that guy's doing, having some trouble? Interesting. Like, oh, this person, you know, they're underwater there? I know Hobby Lobby wants to be there. So I'm gonna, you know, okay, good. Let me, let me make that happen. And so they just find these, these deals like that.

• 43:11Sam Parr?

  I love learning about this.

• 43:12Shaan Puri?

  That's one of the traits.

• 43:12Sam Parr?

  Dude, I love it.

• 43:14Shaan Puri?

  Very different, honestly, pretty standard for the real estate world. None of the things I said so far are like shocking to anybody that's in real estate. But for us in the tech world, it's a very different play style. It's totally different set of strengths, you know, activities than what we do. So for us, it's like, ooh, that's cool. That's new.

• 43:31Sam Parr?

  That's crazy. Dude, by the way, my father is like that. He owns a business where when he spends his winters in Florida, he brings a phone that plugs into the wall and he brings a fax machine. And it's just constantly calling like, hey, what you got? What you hearing? What's good? And like the, his company, you know, sells millions and millions of dollars worth of stuff. And it's just with a fucking phone, a fax machine and mailing checks and just constantly calling like, hey, what you got? What you hearing? It like, that's just how the business is. It's crazy, man. And they kill it.

• 44:04Shaan Puri?

  Par here, talk to me.

• 44:05Sam Parr?

  That's what they do. They go, they go, what's good, brother? What's going on? Or he'll call people nephew. What's up nephew? What's good?

• 44:14Shaan Puri?

  You gotta work at a barber shop if you're gonna just call non-nephews nephew. You gotta be black and in a barber shop. I can't believe that your dad gets away with that.

• 44:23Sam Parr?

  That's amazing. Like that. I'll be like, what's up nephew? He just calls people nephew.

• 44:31Sam Parr?

  He just calls people nephew. Um, all right. Well, you want to do one more?

• 44:35Shaan Puri?

  Let me tell you about a space that I've been.

• 44:39Shaan Puri?

  poking around and it's not something I'm gonna do, but there's definitely opportunity. You know, I poked the the beehive and I heard some buzzing. I don't want to go near it, but like somebody who wants honey, go there.

• 44:50Sam Parr?

  That's a very good analogy.

• 44:51Shaan Puri?

  I pieced together that analogy on the fly. I don't know what the next word was gonna be.

• 44:55Sam Parr?

  You just had words coming out of your mouth, not sure how the sentence is gonna end it. It totally found its place. Wonderful.

• 45:01Shaan Puri?

  I was really satisfied. So, um, so OnlyFans. Okay. So we've talked about OnlyFans a bunch, but let me tell you the angle that I'm thinking about here. So.

• 45:14Sam Parr?

  By the way, I do not give a shit about OnlyFans. Everyone talks about OnlyFans. The only thing I care about is Brap Barbie. Do you know who that is? I think that's her name.

• 45:24Shaan Puri?

  Bad.

• 45:25Sam Parr?

  Is that it?

• 45:25Shaan Puri?

  Bad Bobby. What did you just say?

• 45:27Sam Parr?

  I thought it was Brap. I thought it's Brad the Barbie. Isn't there like an R and an H at the first word?

• 45:33Shaan Puri?

  Just a H, just the H.

• 45:34Sam Parr?

  Wait, it's bad? That's how you spell bad?

• 45:37Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 45:38Sam Parr?

  That's stupid.

• 45:39Shaan Puri?

  I feel like you, I feel like you're up to speed on Bad Bobby. What's her name? Bad Barbie? What's her name?

• 45:43Sam Parr?

  I don't know. Bad Baby. I just know her as the Catch Me Outside Girl from Mari, but uh, or Dr. Phil or some bullshit. Anyway, that's the only person I know. And it's like.

• 45:52Shaan Puri?

  She changed like races.

• 45:54Sam Parr?

  Wait, is she black now or white? What is she supposed to be?

• 45:57Shaan Puri?

  She's white.

• 45:58Sam Parr?

  She's white?

• 45:58Shaan Puri?

  Now black.

• 46:00Shaan Puri?

  Have you seen her? Did you Google? Google Bad Baby. All right.

• 46:07Sam Parr?

  Whatever. She, she, she switched.

• 46:09Shaan Puri?

  She's Jewish and her mom's Italian.

• 46:11Sam Parr?

  She really?

• 46:12Shaan Puri?

  And then, and then now she's being like criticized because she's like, they people say it's like modern day blackface because she's like, really like changed her look. Uh, like when she was on Dr. Phil, she looked like, uh, you know, I don't know, like a spoiled white girl or something like that. And, uh, anyways, whatever. It doesn't matter.

• 46:31Sam Parr?

  Brap Barbie. What the fuck her name is. She kills it. She kills it. And like, apparently she bought like a $20 million house, $20 million house. Uh, so whatever. So.

• 46:43Shaan Puri?

  So, anyways, point is, uh, company crushes it. So they do billions of dollars in revenue. Uh, the owner, whose name is now public, so we can talk about him, Leo, he's a fan of the pod, friend of the house. He, um, I think they, he cleared or, or, you know, like the, the company cleared 500 million in profits in 2020 or 2021, like just an insanely profitable, insanely big business. Okay.

• 47:08Shaan Puri?

  And what is OnlyFans? OnlyFans is basically like a storefront where anybody can sell pictures or videos. So you're selling content. And so, you know, I do, I do e-commerce. I come from the Shopify world. I know that in Shopify, Shopify is your storefront. That's your equivalent of OnlyFans. But you use like this whole host of tools around it to make your store sell better, to increase sales. So you'll use Klavio to, you know, grab people's email addresses and then send them automated emails.

• 47:38Sam Parr?

  I know where you're going with this one.

• 47:40Shaan Puri?

  You use, you know, this app to boost your, you know, to upsells automatically, right? To cross-sell or upsell new products so that you increase the dollar value per customer. So you use all these different things. OnlyFans kind of has none of this stuff, but it has the same volume and the same like, you know, like seriousness of any of these other big storefront slash marketplace type of ideas. And so I think there's a whole world of OnlyFans SaaS tools that can be built. And there are some.

• 48:09Sam Parr?

  But do they have an ecosystem?

• 48:13Shaan Puri?

  Like, you don't need, you don't, they just use it on their own. You don't have to like plug into OnlyFans. You just like, there's not like a platform. You have to go be approved to sell under to be an app, like the way Shopify does. You gotta be in the Shopify app.

• 48:26Sam Parr?

  But do they have like, oh, so they don't, but there is no OnlyFans App Store?

• 48:30Shaan Puri?

  No, you just, you just sign up and you just use products. So for example, there are products that are like chatbots. So what they do is somebody follows you or they subscribe. Either they're a free follower or maybe they're paying the $5 a month subscription. But what you, where you really make your money is what they call pay-per-view. And so that's where you sell like, oh, I did a photo shoot, whatever, like, you know, I dressed up like Catwoman, paid $19 to unlock, right? That piece of content. And so what these bots, these SaaS tools are doing is they basically are like, hey, we will go message all of your followers as if it's you being like, hey, did you see my Catwoman thing? I think you're gonna love it. Follow up 24 hours later, like picture three in the album was like just for you wink face,

• 49:15Shaan Puri?

  whatever, right? Like this is just a bot. And what is this? This is a sales rep that is going around for you, doing sales and selling your content, selling your product. And so the all the tools today are pretty rudimentary. They are pretty, or they're just like, they're just missing certain things from certain ecosystems. And I think somebody could do what, what Andrew, Andrew Wilkinson did with We Commerce, where he basically rolled up a set of plugins and tools. I think that you could do that in the OnlyFans world. Now, to do this, why am I not doing this? Well, I don't want to deal with people on OnlyFans every day. I don't want to be like selling this content every day. It's not like, what's it called? Like, it's not my Ikigai, we've

• 49:58Shaan Puri?

  put on this earth to do. Yeah. But we got a bunch of friends who are less, you know,

• 50:03Sam Parr?

  little, little less pretentious about, yeah, different standard. Maybe we were not going to say lower or higher standards. We'll say more wide.

• 50:13Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, left or right.

• 50:16Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it's not, it's not a, you know, our bars up here, it's all else's bars out here. It's just, it's a little bars. It's a little wider. Yeah.

• 50:25Shaan Puri?

  So if you're one of these wide standard fellows out there, I think there's a lot of opportunity.

• 50:31Sam Parr?

  If your moral compass is a little wobbly.

• 50:34Shaan Puri?

  And there's a whole, the whole ecosystem, right? So if you want to start an agency, OnlyFans agencies do really, really well, right? Because they take care of the back office, they take care of growth for, for these OnlyFans creators. I know two people personally that have built OnlyFans, like just SEO optimized websites that are like search engine. So it's like, find a creator, discover a creator, search for a person.

• 50:53Sam Parr?

  No way. Who?

• 50:54Shaan Puri?

  And they're like metric sites. And they've built them and they're either like cash flowing really, really well, like, you know, to the tune of like, you know, a hundred grand a month of free cash flow, or they sold them for like two, three million.

• 51:04Sam Parr?

  Is one of them called Fansmetric?

• 51:07Shaan Puri?

  I don't want to say it because I kind of already said some numbers. So yeah, there are like Ben, we know too personally that that did this. And so metrics, like in any ecosystem, same thing with Twitch. It was like, there was a metric site and the metric site got big. Then there were Stream Labs and Stream Labs made it easy for somebody to like, accept tips and donations. And, and they made like, an alert system so that every time you got a tip or donation, you could automatically acknowledge that person, which, which leads to more tips. And that Stream Labs became an indispensable tool for every Twitch creator. What is the Stream Labs of OnlyFans?

• 51:39Sam Parr?

  Dude, that's so fascinating.

• 51:40Shaan Puri?

  These are the, there is so much opportunity to build SaaS tooling for these creators, to build agencies, to build, you know, a whole bunch of different opportunities around this ecosystem, because most people aren't going to go there, myself included. And if you do go there, the tool, it's like new and growing so fast that the pie is big, but it's not totally saturated the same way that Shopify feels quite saturated, or, you know, tools for iPhone developers, whatever, seems pretty, pretty saturated.

• 52:09Sam Parr?

  Do you follow, have you ever seen that TikTok guy who goes up to people with fancy cars and he goes, "Hey, what do you do for a living?"

• 52:16Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, of course.

• 52:18Sam Parr?

  What's his name? Brandon Mack, I think, or something Mack. It's awesome. And for some reason, all of, it feels like all of the ones lately have all been, it's always hot girls and they like make jokes and then they finally admit that they do OnlyFans. And OnlyFans is one of those ideas where when I heard about it like five years ago, I'm like, who the fuck's going to pay for that? Like, just Google it. Like, you'll see the same thing, just like, Google that person's name followed by the word nude, and you'll like, find exactly what you want. Like, why would you pay $20 a month for this? And obviously, they proved me wrong. And it's gotten to be such a huge thing that it seems like if I go to LA, you see a hot girl in a fancy car, like, just based off my, me scrolling in bed at night,

• 53:00Sam Parr?

  it's like, oh, they're definitely an Only, it's an OnlyFans model. And that is like totally new and strange to me. And that is what's made me feel like, oh, this is like, going to be much, actually much bigger. It's significantly more mainstream than I ever thought. Like, no one would make like, maybe now people will make jokes about Pornhub, but like, every guy out there has like, five or 10 porn sites that they go to, and never in a million years would they say out loud what it is. Do you know what I mean?

• 53:27Shaan Puri?

  And yeah, in fact, I'm not even going to say any words for the rest of the segment.

• 53:31Sam Parr?

  And now it's like OnlyFans is like a thing that like, well, we, we talk about because it's like so mainstream popular. I find it to be incredibly fascinating. Like even just in the last four years, we started mentioning the word Pornhub because they would do funny skits like during the Super Bowl or they would like, you know, do fun. It's like become a joke, but that has just happened.

• 53:51Shaan Puri?

  By the way, one good idea was just to do another OnlyFans. And so I forgot what it's called Fansly or Fans Only. I think it's Fansly. Fansly is just like, if you don't want to be on OnlyFans, come on Fansly. And they're just like, well, we'll be number two. It's fine. We'll, we'll make some different decisions. Like we allow whatever like, you know, I don't know what they're different, like cartoon creators or something like that. Like, you know, I like, it'd be like a digital.

• 54:15Sam Parr?

  Dude, it's like those seven minute abs and some Fansly is just going to be six minute abs. It's like, yeah, it's the same thing. It does. We charge you only nine percent instead of 10.

• 54:23Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. And so, and then they're doing pretty, pretty well. Like they do, they do, they do fairly well. And when, and so I think there was just, this was just one of those winning ideas. It was one of those really big winning ideas. I don't know if I told you this, by the way, I had a buddy who was a VC who kind of quit his job and was going to raise like his own fund. And then he was just like, he identified, I think three years ago, he goes, OnlyFans. And I go, what? And he goes, OnlyFans is going to be massive. And I go, I think it's already pretty big. At that time, it seemed pretty big for what it was. I was like, dude, how popular can this get? Like that's.

• 54:59Sam Parr?

  What's it worth now? You think? What, what could it sell for now? I don't even know.

• 55:03Shaan Puri?

  Uh, I don't know. I think very, very conservatively, two billion is my guess and aggressively closer to 10. I don't know. You know, it's hard to say like the, all the market like multiples just got changed. So it's hard to know. Also, you know, there's not that many buyers for OnlyFans. So this is the problem with.

• 55:21Sam Parr?

  That's, that's what I was wanting, getting at. Yeah.

• 55:22Shaan Puri?

  Can't really go public and there's not that many buyers, but it's super, super profitable. And so my buddy was like, it's going to be big. I'm going to spend the next year trying to get ownership in OnlyFans. I go, what do you mean? Like just, I guess you're going to reach out. He goes, yeah, but if it doesn't work, like I'm going to find a way to get ownership. And I was like, what? And he's like, yeah, I'm just going to like, I'm going to invest in it. I'm going to help them. I'm going to do anything I can. And he literally made that his mission for like a year.

• 55:46Sam Parr?

  Did he get it?

• 55:47Shaan Puri?

  And he did it. He was able to, like, they didn't let anybody invest. But this guy was able to go in and get advisory shares by helping them out in all these different ways. And he did it. He got a piece of it. And he was right. He sent me, he goes, I remember when Twitch acquired us, he goes, OnlyFans will be bigger than Twitch. I go, bigger than Twitch? No way. And I was like, dude, I don't think you know, Twitch is like, one of the top six, like, most visited websites in America, or something like that, like most trafficked or something. And he goes, yeah, you'll see. And, and he was right. It passed Twitch in terms of users and revenue in the last year. And I was like, wow, this guy really like called his shot of being super, super bullish on OnlyFans. He was, he was absolutely correct.

• 56:29Sam Parr?

  Dude, what this, does he also own $600 million for the real estate? This guy sounds awesome.

• 56:34Shaan Puri?

  Different guy.

• 56:36Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I mean, I'm aboard. I think, I think, you know, We Commerce is an interesting company. We Commerce is Andrew Wilkinson, you know, fan of the pod or friend of the pod who comes on all the time. Their market cap is decimated right now. It sucks right now, but their business is, is pretty good. Like, it's a good business. It's way undervalued. But I think it's an interesting model. And yeah, I'm, I'm on board with your aggressive friend who pushed his way into OnlyFans.

• 57:04Shaan Puri?

  Do you, do you have a pregame routine you do before this podcast?

• 57:09Sam Parr?

  I listen to music and I review all my notes. That's about it.

• 57:13Shaan Puri?

  Like a specific song or just like generally whatever, whatever is on?

• 57:17Sam Parr?

  I use Pandora and then I, one hour before, so I have my schedule locked in. So for the people listening, we record for one hour. And so we're usually here at the top of the hour, then we start. And then one hour before that, it's my quiet time where I like review everything.

• 57:32Shaan Puri?

  Quiet time, nice.

• 57:33Sam Parr?

  Well, like, people are like messaging me and I'm like, yeah, I can't talk to you right now. I'm preparing. And so it's my time to like read notes and like I scan the news and I just want to know what's going on in the world.

• 57:42Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, my daughter has that. That's great. Quiet time. I love it.

• 57:45Sam Parr?

  What do you do?

• 57:46Shaan Puri?

  Invented this great thing because she's like, dude, my kids don't want to sleep and they just want to play. And so she's like, I gotta turn like, she's like, I don't even care if they're asleep. I just want them to go to their room and just like not talk to me. I just stay in the bed and like have fun. So she created nighttime sister playtime. And so it's just like hilarious thing where they're like, oh, it's nighttime sister playtime. And they get to go run into their beds and like the two sisters can play together, but they have to be quiet. Cause it's nighttime sister playtime. Nobody else is allowed in, which means don't bother mommy and daddy. And I just thought, what a hilarious rebrand of go in the room, shut the door and shut up. And so now whenever I'm doing something like even work wise, like with my coworkers and like our e-comm thing or whatever. I'll be like, all right, it's nighttime sister playtime. Like that just means like,

• 58:30Sam Parr?

  Don't talk to me.

• 58:30Shaan Puri?

  Don't bother me with Slack and don't talk to me. I'm going to go do some work now.

• 58:34Sam Parr?

  That's what I have.

• 58:35Shaan Puri?

  Mommy and daddy gotta go do things.

• 58:36Sam Parr?

  Dude, I just like, I blame everything on the pod. I'll be like, hey, can't prepare for the pod. Kit, don't talk to me, please. Cause everyone knows it's like a deadline. Why? Do you have a routine?

• 58:45Shaan Puri?

  I got a, well, I kind of have one, but I was making fun of myself this morning about it. So my schedule is similar, I think to you where now the morning is all locked in where it's like, I work out at a specific time. And then at the end of the workout, I do my like 10 minutes of like mindset stuff that I do. And, and it's like, it's really good. Everything's really healthy, but it's almost comically healthy where I was doing it today. And I was like, I was like, what am I? I was like, I'm that cliche tech guy. That's like,

• 59:12Sam Parr?

  Things have changed.

• 59:14Shaan Puri?

  Fasted, yeah, I do my fasted cardio and then I, I go seven and a half minutes in the sauna. Then I, you know, 11 minutes uninterrupted staring at the sun. It's like, I have, I have sex for three minutes, three times a day. It's study show that it's better. I'm like doing all these like life optimization things that really, I'm like, I'm not a huge fan of those things. Cause I feel like individually, I like all of them, but together I'm like, am I this delicate? That I need to be like this, uh, you know, like, am I like, I'm not a, I'm not one of these like performance F1 cars or whatever. That's like, you know, has to be like perfectly balanced everywhere. I don't want to be so fragile.

• 59:54Sam Parr?

  You, you are, you are what you didn't want to be now. I think that's good. You look better. You look, I think you look significantly better than you did three years ago. That's for sure.

• 1:00:02Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, but that could be, that could be anything. Who knows? Who knows what that could be?

• 1:00:06Sam Parr?

  Wait, let me tell you really quick.

• 1:00:08Shaan Puri?

  I don't know if that's the morning routine, because that's, that's been more recent.

• 1:00:10Sam Parr?

  Speaking of morning routines, I gotta, I was actually excited to tell you about this. So I'll tell you about it more when I'm done with it. But I met this guy on Twitter named Isaac French. Do you know Isaac French? He's that guy who-

• 1:00:22Shaan Puri?

  No, but it's a strong name.

• 1:00:24Sam Parr?

  It's a strong name, and that's why I got interested in him, frankly. But he, like, he's that guy who has-

• 1:00:31Shaan Puri?

  Not gonna lie, French, I'm here for the name.

• 1:00:36Sam Parr?

  Dude, Isaac French is his name. I met him on Twitter. He's, he's the guy who, um, he bought up like a five acre plot of land and like built cabins on it and turned it into an Airbnb that's making like millions of dollars in sales. And, but he like, he's only 25 and he like architect and-

• 1:00:50Shaan Puri?

  Oh, right. We featured him on the pod a long time ago. And he like called you and he told you all the numbers and all that.

• 1:00:56Sam Parr?

  Yeah, and he like architect the whole thing and he like, he's also an accountant. So he did all the accounting and then he even like hired all the builders himself. So he was the general contractor, just this interesting guy. I hung out with him. I met him on Twitter. We, I eventually met up with him. He's really fascinating and he's part of this, uh, religion, I guess is the right way to describe it, called Homestead Heritage. And basically, if you're, if you're an outsider, it kinda looks like in, like a Mennonite society a little bit. You know, like what Mennonites are?

• 1:01:25Shaan Puri?

  No, what is that?

• 1:01:26Sam Parr?

  You ever seen Amish people?

• 1:01:28Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:28Sam Parr?

  So this is like, he would not say that they're the same and they aren't. But from an outside perspective, it all like looks a little similar. And so-

• 1:01:37Shaan Puri?

  Those are the best descriptions where it's like, they'd be kind of offended at this, but this is what it is.

• 1:01:42Sam Parr?

  Well, they're, they're like objectively not the same, but like if you go, I posted their website in the, in the thing, uh, in the chat, you'll see guys wearing like those big white hats and like, there's like a cow or like a horse like tilling the land and they're walking alongside it. And like a lot of the women wear like the long dresses and like, and so listen to the, the description of their religion. I, it's a religion, but it's also a community. But listen. Homestead Heritage is an agrarian and craft-based intentional Christian community. Its literature stresses simplicity, sustainability, self-sufficiency, cooperation, service, and quality craftsmanship. And so it's this like super-

• 1:02:21Shaan Puri?

  I don't understand any of that. What does that mean?

• 1:02:23Sam Parr?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, dude, it's, it's hard to explain, uh, hard to understand if you don't know, but I spent time with them and he's taught me all this, but like basically- Somehow they they derive from like Christian from the Bible or something like it's their like it's their duty or something to like create like high quality craftsmanship like stuff and to like farm on the land and be sustainable and like there's you find God and like doing hard work and good work and being honest and creating stuff with your hands. That's like, again, this like huge generalization from a massive outside perspective. But basically, they like they like make their own food. So if you they own a 500 acres in Waco, Texas,

• 1:03:03Sam Parr?

  which is about two hours ish from Austin. And they like all of their food is like made on that land and like within the community, they share food with one another. And they're also pretty savvy at business. Like, I don't know how that kind of comes into this, but like they like, he's he's an accountant. And so he's like, oh, I just love like being diligent with numbers. And I'm like, oh, my God, you're making me weak at the knees, my man, like telling me stuff. So anyway, this weekend, he's having like there. It's like their festival. They do like a festival where you can go in and buy like their arts and crafts. And I'm driving 90 minutes to go there. And like, we're gonna like sing Christmas songs and like buy arts and crafts. And I'm incredibly excited to show you like or to report back about what it's like. This community is so fascinating

• 1:03:47Sam Parr?

  to me. And so it's kind of interesting.

• 1:03:50Shaan Puri?

  I'm imagining, did you watch The Office? You know, when Dwight has his Airbnb?

• 1:03:54Sam Parr?

  I'm imagining that too. Yes.

• 1:03:57Shaan Puri?

  Shrewd Farms. That's what I'm imagining. And you're gonna go meet Moe's. Wow, that is, that is incredible. You know, if you told me, if you live this way, you can live till 200, I might do it then. That is how big the cost is to me of like, yo, go make go till your own food. I don't even know what tilling is, to be honest with you. I don't know if something you do with your hands or your feet, right? Like, what is tilling?

• 1:04:20Sam Parr?

  I think it's when like a cow like pulls a long like a rake or something and it like moves the soil, then you could like plant shit in it. I don't know. But yeah, dude, it I would bet my well, I bet you these people are pretty happy. I think that there is like happiness and simplicity, but like, who the hell knows? Everyone's unhappy. But anyway, that's what I'm doing this weekend. I'm gonna report back.

• 1:04:42Shaan Puri?

  Well, I like that it's kind of like Amish people that love money. That's kind of already intriguing, right? Like, you know, tell me more.

• 1:04:48Sam Parr?

  Yeah, which is basically like, have you ever walked around in Brooklyn? And like, I know Ben Levy, who's here, like, lived in this part of, or ish in this part of Brooklyn. Have you ever been around like the Orthodox Jews?

• 1:04:57Shaan Puri?

  No, but you've said they like run the place in Brooklyn, right?

• 1:04:59Sam Parr?

  They run the place, man. And they like, you'll walk around in parts of Brooklyn and they'll be speaking Yiddish. Or like you go to certain stores and like everything's in Yiddish. And you're like, am I in a different country? This is wild. And they kind of like, like you like help others in the community. It's really fascinating. I love these, I actually like those cultures. I think it's really interesting that those exist.

• 1:05:19Shaan Puri?

  All right. Uh, I think that's it for today. I'm gonna save the rest for next episode.