Finding Profitable Business Ideas By Studying Trends, Hood Rat Stuff, and More

Sam Parr (@TheSamParr) and Shaan Puri (@ShaanVP) talk about how to identify trends, whether it's possible to get ultra-wealthy from cash flow businesses, why they enjoy doing hood rat stuff, and more. ----- Links: * https://worldview.space/ * https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/ * https://www.reddit.com/r/overemployed/ * Bullshit Jobs: https://www.amazon.com/Bullshit-Jobs-Theory-David-Graeber/dp/150114331X * Do you love MFM and want to see Sam and Shaan's smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. * Want more insights like MFM? Check out Shaan's newsletter. ----- Show Notes: (03:45) - Shaan's trip to Mexico (07:35) - Worldview (15:05) - Sam's goals for MFM (20:50) - The secret world of how things come to be (29:30) - Identifying trends (42:00) - How many employees does a company needs (49:10) - Why Sam and Shaan love doing hood rat stuff (53:30) - Can you make 9 figures from cash flow businesses? (55:45) - Sam's advice for Warren Buffet (01:03:00) - Being honest about why you start a company ----- Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. ----- Additional episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Shaan Puri?

  You're good at doing this, which is you identify these lifestyle trends. You like pick up pretty quickly on like, there's a group of people that are deciding to like, live under a different paradigm or different motto or creed. And actually that was like one of the best ways to build a business around that lifestyle. Because you can speak to that audience, you could differentiate a product super easily to that crowd.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like my days on. On the road, let's travel, never looking back.

• 0:32Sam Parr?

  One time I went to an amateur fight in, you've been there. It was at the, in Golden State Park or something. Remember that?

• 0:39Shaan Puri?

  Dragon House.

• 0:39Sam Parr?

  And there was like a thousand people there and at the fight, you know how, so basically when people, before people get into a ring, the referee checks to make sure you don't have any weapons on you. It's just like a precaution, but that's like they rub, they like rub your shorts to make sure you have a weapon. They check your gloves to make sure that there's not like cement in there. And then they also look at your fingers to make sure in MMA's case, you don't have long nails. One time I went and they go, no, you gotta cut your nails. And so they made an announcement and they go, does anyone have a nail trimmer? And someone, and we waited for like three or five minutes and someone had to like run to Walgreens or something and bring a nail and he had to cut the nail. And I was like, A, like, how did you not figure this out? Like, you know, 15 minutes ago, this nail thing is not new.

• 1:22Sam Parr?

  Like you should have checked this out before they came out and B, it was just crazy.

• 1:26Shaan Puri?

  That's so funny. That, yeah, every time they do those checks, I'm like, has anybody ever discovered like a razor? That this guy's sneaking into the cage? Like, no, they never do it. It's like just a, it's like a TSA pat down without ever, ever finding anything. Except for that, that's the first time I've ever heard that they like actually found a violation.

• 1:44Sam Parr?

  One of the reasons they do it is in the eighties or nineties, there's this guy, he's a real, it was a real famous fight. And this guy basically put his hand in like a cast. So it was like, and they like, they casted his, yeah, it was called a Paris of plaster or whatever that phrase is. It's, it was like plaster and then they put his gloves on and they beat up, and he beat up this guy so bad that the guy eventually killed himself because he had so much brain damage. It made him depressed and like, it was like a really bad thing. And so that's one of the reasons why they're like, like check your gloves so much. It's such a big deal.

• 2:17Shaan Puri?

  Wow. The plaster caster. All right. I, I, I feel like.

• 2:22Shaan Puri?

  Well, I'm sorry that that guy died and now I respect these checks. In fact, I too got caught in TSA yesterday in a slow line and missed my flight. So you know how I'm always two minutes late for this podcast? I was two minutes late for my flight and missed my flight yesterday.

• 2:39Sam Parr?

  Where were you going?

• 2:40Shaan Puri?

  I was going down to, I went down to Mexico, actually. So yesterday I went to Mexico and back.

• 2:47Sam Parr?

  What? Why? For e-commerce stuff?

• 2:49Shaan Puri?

  For business. Yeah, we were visiting a supplier down there and I wanted to, you know, go check them out. And so, yeah, one day trip, missed my flight, did the thing where I was in the good line. Other line looked a little shorter. So I was like, let me optimize real quick. Made the switch. Took a mental note. I said, all right, that's my line buddy right there. We'll see who makes it first. He was long gone. He made the flight. I didn't make the flight. So I ended up, and I have clear, I got all the shit to skip the lines. Still, still didn't make it. So that was kind of a... Yeah, well, it's fine. You know, now it's like, you know, whatever the situation.

• 3:27Sam Parr?

  That's just the price you pay.

• 3:29Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. That's the price I pay. The splinter is the cost of the wood, as I say. And that was, that was, that was, you know, the start of my day. But dude, I crossed the border on foot yesterday. I was like, you know, Donald Trump's enemy. I literally walked across the border from Mexico back into the United States yesterday.

• 3:51Sam Parr?

  How? I don't understand.

• 3:53Shaan Puri?

  Like I drove down, I got driven down to Mexico. They don't check you. So they're like, oh yeah, come on in. It's fine. Like, you know, they don't, they don't really care. But then to get back into the United States. So like, hey, hey, well, you can't just walk into the United States. You gotta show me some ID or whatever. And the guy who drove us down, the guy we're meeting for business. He was like, well, I have this like fast pass. That's like the global entry thing, but it's only for me. I can't just like bring other people in my car using that. So when we get up to the thing, you're going to hop out, you're going to get in this line with a bunch of other people trying to cross the border. And then I'll pick you up on the other side. And so that's what we did. I crossed the border on foot yesterday, which is kind of... A stunning experience and it was amazing dude. It was like it was just so different than anything else that I've ever

• 4:38Sam Parr?

  What was your peers like on the on the

• 4:42Shaan Puri?

  My peers. Yeah. So my peers and and my peers and friends in line. They were, you know, a lot of like single mothers with kids. It was like, you know, not a whole lot of English going on people, you know, there was an amazing rapper. So this guy was rapping. I got a video of him, but I he had no call to action, dude. He had the like his top of funnel was amazing. His like rap was great. He had a speaker. He was we were he had a captive audience like we're stuck in line and he's just rapping to all of us and he's freestyling about us in Spanish. And so I'm sure he was just talking mad shit about me. But then I was like, wow, this guy's like got the all the talent in the world. And so I was literally like, dude, I'm going to get this guy to like, make a song like he'll do our outro for the podcast or something because this guy's so good.

• 5:28Shaan Puri?

  But he's got no, no Instagram handle.

• 5:30Sam Parr?

  For my illegal crossing.

• 5:33Shaan Puri?

  It was legal. Um, you know, it was a legal crossing and he was there and he was amazing and he had no sign, no name, no nothing, no, no English. So I couldn't like dude, he was that was his Kanye Kanye moment and I was his Jay-Z. I was ready to take him to the top, but he didn't have, he didn't have it there. So, you know, lesson learned as always. Give people a way to, uh, you know, to, to, to take you forward to give the call to action. Otherwise, you know, you might just be a rapper at the border for the rest of your life. You don't, you don't have that with you.

• 6:17Sam Parr?

  Well, you should have told them that.

• 6:18Shaan Puri?

  I tried to, but you know, my Spanish stops at biblioteca. So I kept saying library, library. And he's like, what are you saying, man? I don't understand. And so, you know, that was, that was the end of that.

• 6:30Sam Parr?

  So let me tell you about something really quick. You have more ideas than I do. So let me, let me go first and tell you about something because, all right. So South by Southwest is going on this weekend. And I went to this dinner two nights ago. That was pretty wild. So let me tell you about something, uh, not entirely related or tangentially related at first. Have you ever heard of the overview effect? Probably not, right? The overview effect.

• 6:51Shaan Puri?

  No.

• 6:52Sam Parr?

  Okay, the overview effect is a cognitive shift that affects how some astronauts, that affects some astronauts when they see the Earth from space. So basically, when you take a person, there's only been about 6, 700, 800, something like that, people in space. And when you take someone away from Earth in space, they basically start seeing themselves no longer as, they don't like identify with a particular nationality, a particular culture, a particular race, and they just see the world as like this like fragile thing floating around. And there's been tons of astronauts who they go up and they're like, wow, the Earth is so fragile, it's so beautiful, it's just floating around and it's protected by this thin atmosphere. And basically, it makes like wars seem-

• 7:37Shaan Puri?

  Is it a bad thing or a good thing to have the overview effect?

• 7:40Sam Parr?

  Well, it's more, most likely a good thing, but really, it's nothing. It's just like, it's just a different perspective where it's like, look, this idea of like nationalities and borders, like, that's fine if those exist, but that's not really important. We're all just floating on this rock, you know, trying to figure shit out. And it's just like, it changes how a lot of astronauts view the world. And they say they're like, I'm different. It's almost like an LSD trip or something like that. And so it's this like really fascinating thing. And this one astronaut was, astronaut was like, my life changed after that, like I'm not stressed out about certain stuff. I see us floating around on this fragile ball throughout, you know, throughout space. And, and just these little things don't bother me because I think that all the, a lot of those problems are just made up.

• 8:21Sam Parr?

  So it's kind of, and he said, I think everyone should, should be, I wish that everyone can be able to experience this. So because of that, because of that idea, there's this one company that hosted a dinner that I went to. And it was awesome. And basically what they make is this like pod. It's like, uh, it's like the size of a really small room that can fit 10 people sitting down. It's like, it looks like, um, like a capsule, like a circle. And you sit down on this thing and above it is basically a hot air balloon. That's the size of a football field, a huge hot air balloon. And each person pays $50,000 and over six to eight hours, it brings you up above like 100,000 feet to the point of you-

• 9:02Sam Parr?

  Kind of, you're not, I guess technically in space, but it's a thing where you're like so high that you see like the black, you know, above you and then you see like the dark above you and you could kind of see earth from a distance and you could start seeing different countries. And they're doing this because they want you to, like the whole shit is like, you know, once you see this, like your life changes. And their first flights are going, it's called a worldview. I think if you go to worldview.space, I think that's their URL. I've got nothing to do with this company. Although a friend just invited me to a free dinner. And it was, I have no idea if these guys are gonna be able to pull it off. But it was a really good story and this idea is crazy fascinating to me. Their first flights I think are going live like next year. Kind of interesting, right?

• 9:46Shaan Puri?

  So you, I thought the dinner was in the pod. I thought you went to space. That's kind of where, first of all, that's what I heard. I thought it was like, you know, the Space Needle restaurant. It's like, I go in this tower, I spun around, I saw the whole city. I thought that's what you were saying you did for dinner.

• 9:59Sam Parr?

  No, my, my friend John like does PR for this company and he's like, hey, I got some spots. Do you want to come hang out? And I went and I actually met a few interesting people.

• 10:07Shaan Puri?

  So would you, would you do this?

• 10:09Sam Parr?

  Adrian Grenier was there, by the way, the guy, Entourage, Vinnie Chase, he was there. And it was, it was just this thing. Uh, would I do it? Definitely, maybe. Not a for sure no, not a for sure yes. I'm really afraid, I'm really claustrophobic.

• 10:23Shaan Puri?

  Definitely maybe, possibly no, probably yes, is where you're at.

• 10:29Sam Parr?

  I would say yeah, like the $50,000 thing to me, that's not a deal breaker because I think that's actually pretty of like $50,000 to like change your life and see the world. Like, look at these pictures that Ben's showing. It's kind of interesting, right?

• 10:45Shaan Puri?

  You're rich, we get it. Uh, $50,000, not a big deal to you.

• 10:49Sam Parr?

  No, I, I, dude, I just mean like, if you want to like buy, like if you're gonna like have to buy a car or like experience this, like, I don't know, it's kind of like, it's a compelling offer.

• 11:01Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Yeah. This is like, you described it as kind of like the go do ayahuasca. Like change your perspective on life. You know, it's like, seems like there's cheaper ways to change your perspective, but all right, that's a cool one. Dude, I had a friend, Matt Kelly, who used to do a pod. I think he did a podcast. It wasn't even that popular of a podcast, but one of his listeners was this mega rich lady, this old rich lady, and she bought him and the other host two tickets on Virgin Galactic's first flight, like worth a quarter million dollars each or something like that.

• 11:33Sam Parr?

  Why?

• 11:34Shaan Puri?

  Before, there's, there's like multiple years before they even had the space flight, but they like, they did the pre-sale. And this woman bought the two of, this listener bought the two of them quarter million dollar tickets or something like that to go to space. It was kind of insane.

• 11:48Sam Parr?

  And they did it?

• 11:50Shaan Puri?

  But at that time, it was like, it wasn't even possible yet. Like Branson had just announced it. Now I think those flights do run or they're about to run or something like that. So I don't know if he ever did it.

• 12:00Sam Parr?

  If, well, hey, worldview, we're giving you guys free PR and we're giving you guys a shout out. If they offered you, Sean, a free opportunity to do this, would you do it?

• 12:11Shaan Puri?

  Um, no, I'm going to say no. I, I mean, bro, you could drive across the court, across the border to Tijuana and walk back and walking across the border will change your perspective. That's free. So, you know,

• 12:25Shaan Puri?

  I just did this for free. I changed my worldview dot Tijuana yesterday.

• 12:31Sam Parr?

  Well, you know, that's the, that's the

• 12:34Sam Parr?

  The cool thing about perspectives is you can have many of them. So we can go into Tijuana and also we could go to space.

• 12:41Shaan Puri?

  The, uh, this is a good hypothetical, which was, uh, this, I remember at one, one day at lunch at work, this was like the big debate. It was like, if you could go and be a part of the first, I don't know, space colony or something like that. That you get to be one of the first people to actually live in outer space, like in either in the moon base or like Mars or something like that.

• 13:01Sam Parr?

  I wouldn't even consider it, of course.

• 13:02Shaan Puri?

  Would you do it? And I was like, hell no. And the, you know, it's like, why the risks? Like, no, the boredom. What, what are we going to do out there? Like, I like my life here. I'm enjoying it so much. Like, all I would do if I went out there, to be honest with you, I would just think about how I'm going to tell everybody about this when I get back. Like, that'd be the only cool part about going there for me is like the momentary stunningness of how it looks. And then the content I'm going to get to come back to earth and talk about it.

• 13:30Sam Parr?

  Dude, that's why I hate vacations. I feel like half the time it's just like, I just gotta take a picture of my parents. That's why I don't like vacations. So, yeah.

• 13:37Shaan Puri?

  That's why I don't post on Instagram. I just refuse to post on Instagram because I'm like, once I start performing here, this is just gonna be another fucking place I perform. So, you know, choose wisely. I chose Twitter and my podcast and like, I don't know, my email list. Those are the only places I want to perform. I don't want to perform on like, how cool my life is. I only want to perform on how cool my ideas are. And that's the, that's the one I want to perform. Probably better off performing nowhere and never having to think about that stuff.

• 14:04Sam Parr?

  Well, I, I was, we don't have to talk about this, but I want us to, I have three goals for us that I need to run by you. The first goal, three million downloads in one month by the end of the year. There's nothing you need to do. You just show up. The second one.

• 14:19Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 14:20Sam Parr?

  I think we talked about this, in-person interviews and also get like proper famous people. Like Arnold Schwarzenegger or, you know, like a proper famous person that we could tell someone at the restaurant. When so like, when people are like, I went to the doctor yesterday and they're like, what do you do for a living? And I'm like, a host of podcasts. And they're like, anyone, oh, cool. Anyone you heard of? I'm like, no, you don't know who any of these people are. So like, like, we need like a proper, like famous person, like, you know.

• 14:48Shaan Puri?

  Do you follow Steph Smith on Twitter?

• 14:50Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 14:50Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Oh, you don't know what Twitter is? Oh, no, not.

• 14:57Shaan Puri?

  Never mind.

• 14:57Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 14:58Shaan Puri?

  I'm unemployed.

• 14:59Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it doesn't work. You know who Ariel Hawani is? Do you like UFC? It just doesn't work out. So we need like a proper famous person so I can get cred when I talk to strangers. And then finally, an in-person event. We need, we need to have an MFM summit. And at that summit, I think you should do a 10-minute comedy bit.

• 15:18Shaan Puri?

  Oh, that's great, dude. Yeah, that would be the pressure I need. And also, it's also gonna be the best audience I could ever get. It's like, if I ever had a warm, a warm audience, it's the motherfuckers that would pay to, you know, the neckbeards that would pay to come see us at the summit. You know, hang out with us, like, there, that's the closest I'm gonna get to a laugh.

• 15:36Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I think so. I think you can do it. I think you could pull it off. I think all-in summit is.

• 15:41Shaan Puri?

  Why are we not doing this at your ranch?

• 15:44Sam Parr?

  It's not set up for like, I, what I think we should do is like three to 400 people. And I think that we should have like maybe two days of events where it's just like one or two times of us talking in front of everyone, but then lots of smaller sessions of people hanging out. And I think we should only charge like $500. So like just enough money to make like a profit. That's interesting, but not high enough to where it prohibits people. All in summit is $7,500 for a ticket.

• 16:10Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, that's a bit pricey.

• 16:13Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 16:15Shaan Puri?

  I'm not even getting to go to space or the border. So fuck that.

• 16:20Sam Parr?

  Yeah, you can get like one fifth of the way to space with that, with the price of an all in summit.

• 16:25Shaan Puri?

  Do you know how many tacos that gets you in Tijuana? $7,500? I could have literally fed the town of Tijuana yesterday with $7,500.

• 16:37Shaan Puri?

  What was I gonna say? Oh, the, um, yeah, we should do this summit thing. Uh, why aren't we doing like, here's the trick. Okay. So like, um, if it's like a meetup for the conference and we, then it's like, oh shit, we gotta have like, I don't know, speakers or like, you know, we have to do a good job. We just need to make this like a vacation. So like, we just need to make this, what would already be a cool vacation. Plus we're there and there's stuff going on. And so, so I think this needs to be like a cruise. Um, and it's just a cruise ship and people can hang out for three days and we're there and other people are there. There's some talks, but like fundamentally it's a cruise, which is already like, dude, this worst case scenario, it's a cruise. Best case scenario, we are awesome on a cruise ship.

• 17:21Sam Parr?

  I'm down. I, I would prefer not a cruise, but I get the idea and I'm down with that. And like, we get you and me, Ben, uh, we get like, uh, like, uh, Wilkinson, Steph, maybe Rob, Deardich will want to come, uh, who I don't know, like the best guests.

• 17:35Shaan Puri?

  Name other non-famous guests.

• 17:37Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I'm like.

• 17:39Shaan Puri?

  We have a podcast. Do you use deodorant? Yeah. Oh, do you use all natural native? No. There is one and he was on the podcast.

• 17:52Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it's like, oh, you you like Tom Cruise?

• 17:56Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 17:56Sam Parr?

  We had a guy on who looked just like.

• 18:01Shaan Puri?

  He has a keto blog, but he looks a lot like.

• 18:05Sam Parr?

  Yeah, he looks just like Tom Cruise.

• 18:10Sam Parr?

  All right, what do you got?

• 18:11Shaan Puri?

  Can I tell you? Okay, so on this trip to Mexico, I saw three or four things that I was like, huh? Tell me more. Okay, so I'm just gonna go through them in rapid, rapid succession. And by the way, I just got back like at midnight last night, so.

• 18:26Shaan Puri?

  You know, I haven't had time to like research a whole bunch of these.

• 18:28Sam Parr?

  Is that your first time in Mexico?

• 18:30Shaan Puri?

  No, but I like.

• 18:33Shaan Puri?

  I got shit on bad for the guy who was hosting me there. He's like, you guys, so is this your first time to Mexico? I think because I was like, are we in Mexico right now? And he's like, yes. And I was like, is this your first time? I was like, no, no, I've been to. He's like, don't say like Cancun or Cabo or like Acapulco. And I was like, yeah, those are the three that I've been to. He's like, okay, this is your first time to Mexico, man.

• 18:55Sam Parr?

  Dude, I hang out. I've hung out for like collectively a month or so in Mexico City. Mexico City is dope. Mexico City is awesome. I would live there for sure.

• 19:03Shaan Puri?

  That's what I heard. And then, so again, so first I, you know, like, here's my, my, my conversation with this guy. So first I dig myself in the hole with the, are we in Mexico? And it's a yes. Then it's, have you been to Mexico? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Trying to build rapport with my Cancun trip. He's like, no. And then the third one is like, but I heard Mexico City is awesome. I got a couple of friends who swear by it. I say it's like one of the best cities. He goes, yeah, I don't go there. Super dangerous.

• 19:30Shaan Puri?

  Everything I said, this guy like extreme counterpunch to me. And I was like, all right, cool. I'm gonna roll down the window and just stick my head out like a dog. Is that cool? He's like, yeah.

• 19:41Shaan Puri?

  All right, so I go there and I'm looking at like, dude, have you ever been inside factories? You probably have, but I think most people haven't. Have you been inside like any kind of?

• 19:49Sam Parr?

  Why do you think that I've been in a factory?

• 19:53Shaan Puri?

  You're gonna be like, I don't know, like my fucking cousin Bubba has like a bubble gum factory.

• 19:58Sam Parr?

  I went fishing for, I went fishing recently with my father-in-law and he's like, hey, so how do I set this hook up? What do I do? I'm like, dude, I don't know. I've never gone fishing. He's like, why, why did you just assume that I know how to do this?

• 20:08Shaan Puri?

  Dude, you look like a guy.

• 20:09Sam Parr?

  You just look like a-

• 20:10Shaan Puri?

  You seem for sure like a guy who goes fishing.

• 20:13Sam Parr?

  I mean, I, I've watched documentaries on it.

• 20:16Shaan Puri?

  Like, do you or do you not have a favorite place to fish?

• 20:21Sam Parr?

  Of course not. I don't have a fishing hole that I go to.

• 20:25Sam Parr?

  But no, I've, I've, I don't think I've been to a factory, not really. Like what type of factory?

• 20:30Shaan Puri?

  It doesn't matter. Any factory, whatever factory you go into, it's fucking mind blowing how like even to go to a warehouse, like go to, you've been inside like an Amazon warehouse or like a, yeah, a food warehouse, like how the food gets to restaurants. It's insane. And the same way that like going to a farm is like slightly crazy and you're like, whoa. I eat these, these, I eat these animals. Like, oh, wow. Uh, you know, that doesn't seem right. But like, basically a factory, it is kind of stunning. Like if you take any object on like, okay, I am holding this microphone. This is sitting on my, this is the foam cover of a microphone.

• 21:07Sam Parr?

  There's some like huge factory that like is churning them out.

• 21:10Shaan Puri?

  If you just go back to trace the process of how this got to my desk. So, okay, I just go on Amazon. I just microphone. I don't know, maybe this one. I clicked that. I buy it, right? So it goes from an Amazon warehouse on to a like Amazon warehouse packs it into a carrier, carrier brings it to my house, puts the package on my doorstep. Okay, great. Well, how did it get to the Amazon warehouse? Well, first it was in probably like another warehouse before it even got sent to Amazon. Before that warehouse, it was in a factory being made by human beings. I don't know. So actually before that, before it got to the warehouse, it was on a boat in a container. Like sailing from fucking China. On a boat with human beings just living on the boat as it sails for months, you know,

• 21:53Shaan Puri?

  two months to the coast. And then it gets like, you know, like docked and separated out of a container ship and like, humans beings are there in the factory. There's human beings, you know, I don't know how many, you know, small children died making this foam cover. But it's like, the amount of work that goes into everything that's sitting in our house, just arriving there is insane to me, like just the materials. So where did the material for this foam come from? Right? There's like a, you know, if you're cotton, right? That starts in a field somewhere. It's puck, it gets plucked and it's pulled and it gets processed, then it gets shipped and then it gets, then it gets manufactured, then it gets printed, then it gets manufactured again. It's like, that is insane.

• 22:32Sam Parr?

  Yeah, a lot of energy.

• 22:34Shaan Puri?

  And to the point where I'm kind of like, we're kind of ruining the earth and also people's lives. Like, you know, like, to get a $20 t-shirt.

• 22:42Sam Parr?

  Well, I canceled my Amazon Prime membership. I was like, man, I feel guilty. I like, I order something and it's like so much energy behind the scenes went to ship this. Of course, I only see they ship a dongle to a computer, a small ass thing with bubble wrap in a huge box. And I'm like, oh, this is horrible. It's, and then I have to pay money to pay a truck to come pick it up because I, it's too much, you know, boxes for my.

• 23:07Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Then the truck, you know, burns gas and then takes it somewhere else and fucking dumps it somewhere and then it's someone else's problem, right? Like, so it's just kind of like, on one hand, I'm amazed that the system even works. Like the fact that the package gets from the factory in Vietnam to the warehouse and then you go to the warehouse and there's like an unbelievable number of boxes. And then they get sort, you know, picked and packed into the package and that gets shipped. And if you ever go to the post office, like if you go to the post office and you, you should just ask them, be like, hey, can I see what it's like behind the door there? They'd be like, what? Why? Like, I just never seen a post office. They'll open the door. It is like Santa's, like, you know, elves factory. Basically, it's like, the most unbelievable number of packages. And you're like, where's the system? Like, aren't there conveyor

• 23:51Shaan Puri?

  belts? And they're like, no, we just got these like trolleys and then we just kind of keep them like, you know, the ones going over there, they stay over in this area. Then we, we hope we don't lose them. It's like, wow, this is insane that this system even works.

• 24:04Sam Parr?

  It is pretty crazy.

• 24:05Shaan Puri?

  It's like an incredible achievement.

• 24:07Sam Parr?

  It's crazy. You can mail something from California to New York for like 45 cents. And it gets there in like four days.

• 24:14Shaan Puri?

  That's what I'm saying, pretty reliably. So I'm like, it is on one hand amazing and on the other hand, it's horrifying. The amount of like, I forget the environmental side, right? I'm not even that environmentally conscious. It's not like something that I think about all the time or feel super guilty about. I actually feel more like the human energy and labor and just the amount of effort and resources it took to get this thing to me. It makes me think like, you know, we had like David Friedberg come on the pod, you weren't there for that one. But the thing he's doing, which is basically like, hey, he's doing the same thing as a drink industry, which is like, instead of, you know, putting 20 liters of water to grow grapes, then crush the grapes, turn it into wine, add sugar, add alcohol, pack it up, put it to, you know,

• 24:56Shaan Puri?

  send it to a bottling factory, then send it to a warehouse, then put it on a shelf in a store, and then drive it home and then put it on a shelf in your home. Like, he's like, why don't you just like manufacture it in your home using this little printer that'll print a drink for you? And, and it's like, oh yeah, that cuts out like 90% of like the, you know, this like energy and like kind of resources and time and effort that goes into bringing this drink to my, you know, you know, to be able to drink this drink. So I just feel like more than ever, there was like, that was the big wake up call. That was my going into space moment was realizing for every single product, every shirt, every pair of boxers, every sock that I own, how much goddamn

• 25:36Shaan Puri?

  like effort, labor, travel, resources goes into it and realizing that that's not going to be the way. That's not going to be the way forever. And like this kind of like 3D printing, you know, like sort of basically like manufacturing just in time at the endpoint and cutting out a whole bunch of these like factories and warehouses and all that other stuff. That needs to happen was my big wake up call.

• 25:59Sam Parr?

  I want to ask you about then what else is there that you can do that for? But before that, have you ever gotten into the buy it for life movement? Have I told you about that?

• 26:09Shaan Puri?

  Um, no, but I think I understand it from that. What is it? It's like an eco-friendly way of like buying

• 26:14Sam Parr?

  Yeah, well, I don't. It doesn't have to be rooted in eco-friendly. It's not for me, but it's a perk. There's a subreddit that I subscribe to is called Buy It For Life. And what you do is the, the idea is just, how do you just consume less stuff? And how do you just buy the best of something that hopefully can last forever? So an example, do you remember as a kid, did your mom ever have a KitchenAid mixer?

• 26:38Shaan Puri?

  Yes.

• 26:39Sam Parr?

  Okay. So KitchenAid mixer, KitchenAid's a brand and the mixer, like it's the thing with the bowl underneath it and like the arm that goes above it and spins. Those are like $600. They're really expensive, but they're famous for lasting like a lifetime. Like you can use an antique one and it works just as good. And another example is if you're gonna buy like a coat, like there's like, um, you can maybe buy a really fancy leather coat and you're willing to spend $2,000 as opposed to buying a $300 one because it could like last forever as long as you fit in it. Or Patagonia actually does that too. They'll fix your stuff forever. Or, um, there's like a bunch of furniture. There's a bunch of shoes, like different types of shoes, you can buy it instead of them, whenever they wear down, instead of throwing them away, you can just get them fixed. And so it's the idea of like, how do you buy one thing forever?

• 27:24Sam Parr?

  And it hopefully can last forever. Or buy one thing one time and it'll last forever.

• 27:28Shaan Puri?

  I feel like you do stuff like this, Ben. Do you, do you have like objects that you, uh, stuff that you buy? That's like meant to, to sort of last? I don't know why. My hunch just tells me you do.

• 27:38Sam Parr?

  The funny thing is my dad does this, but not out of like, um, like environmental justice ideas, but just like because he's crazy that way of like, he drove the same car for 22 years and just like, couldn't bring himself to buy a new car and always shines his shoes because he's owned the same shoes for like 40 years. And so that like, kind of got ingrained in me as like a good way to live. And so I do do this a little bit.

• 28:05Sam Parr?

  It's awesome. It's fun. And also like some of your shit as you wear it in patinas, it actually looks cooler.

• 28:12Shaan Puri?

  Right. You're good at doing this, which is you identify these like lifestyle trends. It's like, do you know there's some people that are like, you know, not eating food anymore? They're just drinking whatever soy lantern, you know, like, you know, there's people that just microdose LSD every day. And like, these are kind of famous examples now, but I feel like you've told me about like 30 of these in the time that we've been friends. And you're like, dude, have you seen this? Like, you know, subreddit called, you know, Fat Fire or whatever. You say you always have these like, you like pick up pretty quickly on like, there's this weird, not even weird. It's just like, there's a group of people that are deciding to like, live under a different sort of like paradigm or different motto or creed. And actually that I think you just like, because it's interesting, but that also is

• 28:55Shaan Puri?

  like, one of the best ways to build a business around that lifestyle, because you can speak to that audience, you could differentiate differentiate a product super easily to that crowd.

• 29:05Sam Parr?

  And I seek that I seek those things out. So there's a bunch of things that I don't agree with, or I don't, I don't want to live my life that way. But I love just like seeing it. I like seeing how basically I love freaks. I like weirdos. I consider myself a weirdo. And I, and I love a good freak show. I just love, I'll see it like, I remember the first time, like three years ago, I went to my friend's house and he didn't have a microwave. I'm like, what? You don't have a microwave? He's like, well, it's bad for this reasons. And I was like, you're a freak. Like, we all have microwaves. You're the weirdo. And then I start thinking about it. I'm like, well, okay, tell me, why, why do you think you might be right? And I'm like, okay, maybe there's a point there. Or like, my friends, a lot of my friends now refuse to use plastic Tupperware or plastic, anything that you eat with.

• 29:47Sam Parr?

  And I'm like, well, why? I just put my thing in microwave. Who cares? And so like, there's a bunch of little things like that, that I love learning about.

• 29:55Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I remember when Justin Marres came on, you were like, let me guess, you don't have a microwave in your house? He's like, yep. And I was like, that's a fucking weird, spot on question to ask somebody that I don't think you knew the answer to ahead of time. And then that got me thinking about that, this, this exact lifestyle you're talking about. In fact, Mois, so Mois started native deodorant, which was around one of these trends, which was people wanted an all natural, paraben free, aluminum free deodorant. And he saw that on Etsy, that was like a really high selling item, but it was like in that Etsy kind of handmade artisan goods like bubble. And his bet was that people, once you kind of speak to that value system of like not having X,

• 30:36Shaan Puri?

  they might be willing to pay more and be become like switch deodorant brands. If you like built a brand around it. He recently tweeted something out. He goes billion dollar idea, water that has not touched plastic. So it's a water brand that has only been like in glass containers or like, you know, basically like from the, whatever, the mountain that this was gotten, it hasn't touched plastic until it's reached your lips. And I thought that was funny. It's like this, this plastic thing is, is real. A lot of people are anti-plastics. But so that that means like for every product where plastic is core, there's going to be a alt product where plastic is not, not like not used. So whether it's Tupperware or like for me,

• 31:20Shaan Puri?

  I drink water out of, you know, we get those big five gallon jugs or whatever delivered to the house out of a dispenser. That, that's a plastic container. It's sitting in the whole time until I drink it, right? So it's just a giant water bottle. And so there's like, there's, there's these trends where you can just look at, okay, where is there like, if there's anti-plastic trend, where is there plastic? And can I create an alternative? If there's a plant-based vegan trend, how do I make alt milks, alt meat, alt whatever, right? That becomes like a blueprint to building a great business.

• 31:52Sam Parr?

  So there's a few companies out right now. You might know their names. I'm going to try and look them up. But basically there's this trend amongst.

• 32:02Sam Parr?

  Products that you use daily that you run out of. So like toothpaste, laundry detergent, Advil bottles, things where the bottle isn't, is just like a way to get it to you, but it's kind of bullshit that you have to throw it away. And so they're making all these products where they send to you one package and then they send you like whenever you need it, just a reef, something to refill it like lit or like, like literally something you pour into it. Um, do you know what they're called? Do you know?

• 32:33Shaan Puri?

  No, but I've seen this for toothpaste. Um, and I think it's a great idea. I think this is a great

• 32:39Sam Parr?

  I love it.

• 32:39Shaan Puri?

  Business idea.

• 32:41Sam Parr?

  And I, at first I thought it was small. I think Mois was the one who told me, I'm pretty sure he said it's like killing it. Um, you don't know what I'm talking about? I forget what it is.

• 32:51Shaan Puri?

  No, I don't know the name.

• 32:52Sam Parr?

  I'll have to look up what it is, but it, they're crushing it.

• 32:56Shaan Puri?

  I know there's like, um, for cleaners, I think there's one called Blue Land. I think, doesn't Blue Land do this? Is it Blue Land?

• 33:02Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah. And it's like chemical free containers and then they send you one container and then they, you, you order something and they, I don't know exactly how they send it to you, but you just like pour it into the thing.

• 33:15Shaan Puri?

  Right. Send you a plastic pouch that you throw away.

• 33:18Sam Parr?

  Yeah. Yeah. I think it's like less, less bad.

• 33:23Shaan Puri?

  By the way, speaking of these kind of like niche crazy people, I got two for you. So one is, we talked, I think about, um, anti, R slash anti work. Do we talk about that on the podcast? I don't.

• 33:35Sam Parr?

  I don't think we talked about it, but it pisses me off.

• 33:38Shaan Puri?

  So there's R slash anti work, which you should explain that. And then I have another one that's the, the counter to it. So first explain our slash anti work.

• 33:46Sam Parr?

  I don't even entirely know how to explain it. But it was, I'll tell you the background from what, if I remember correctly, it was started eight years ago, but, uh, like in the last three years since the pandemic is when it really got popular. It was made up of a lot of people who were waiters and waitresses and they were pissed off at how they're being treated. And it started out as like a labor movement thing. Like we need higher wages. We need this. Now it's like got eight million, 10 million subscribers on, on the subreddit and it's people complaining about like, you know, my manager said that like they fired me because I told them I was busy when I needed to come in and they just basically shit on anything where it's like demanding of, of workers.

• 34:28Shaan Puri?

  And so I think so. So here's their here's, I think their stated thing, Ben, you tell me if I'm being too harsh on it, if you find a more generous explanation. But here's what it says, it is a subreddit for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work and want to get the most out of a work free life. The subreddit has cracked over 1.4 million members by the end of 2019, which has got to be a lot more than that by now.

• 34:50Sam Parr?

  It's eight million now.

• 34:51Shaan Puri?

  And it went.

• 34:52Sam Parr?

  It was sorry, 1.8.

• 34:54Shaan Puri?

  Oh, my God.

• 34:55Sam Parr?

  Sorry, I think 1.8.

• 34:56Shaan Puri?

  Viral after a warehouse worker posted screenshot of a text that they sent their boss. And then that basically made other workers, the other workers like, kind of like saw that were inspired, did the same. And it was part of this, like, you know, the great resignation that people were talking about. And there was like this funny clip where they put, they took a mod from r slash anti work and they went on Fox News. I don't know. Have you seen this?

• 35:17Sam Parr?

  Yeah. And this, the person got destroyed. It was embarrassing.

• 35:20Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. It's like anti work person gets destroyed by, you know, Fox anchors, like the video.

• 35:25Sam Parr?

  Which I didn't like. I didn't like, I mean, I hate when they do that. This person clearly like is not that smart, I think. And like they, it's very easy to set them up to look silly in that, in those cases.

• 35:36Shaan Puri?

  The subreddit also didn't like it because they were like, dude, horrible representation of us on TV. Did not articulate our points. And, um, you know, why did you go on there? Like this movement is not about you getting your personal fame, you know, to like, do this. We kind of, I think they had some rules around, like, we're not going to do appearances or speak to the media unless we kind of agree on what the message is. And so this person went rogue, I guess, and did that. But, but they basically embarrassed themselves where they were like, yeah, I just don't want to work. And then guys like, okay, cool. So like, you know, you don't want to work at all? Or like, no, like, I want to be able to do what I want to do. So what do you want to do? It's like, I want to teach people. I want to be, I want to be a teacher. And he's like, you want to be, you want to be a teacher? You know, should, should we let you teach?

• 36:19Shaan Puri?

  Basically, it was kind of like the, the endpoint that they were kind of making. But anyway, so this, there's anti work, which went viral. Then there's, have you seen r slash overworked?

• 36:28Sam Parr?

  No, what's that?

• 36:29Shaan Puri?

  It's the exact opposite. It's people who are using the pandemic, the kind of remote work lifestyle to be like, they call it having the multiple jobs at once. So like their lingo is like, oh yeah, my J1, which is like my job one. It's like J1 has great benefits. And so I'm just picking up my J2 and J2, I'm just going to do 10 hours a week with this, this and this. And I'm going to use that to invest in these things, right? It's those people scheming together about how to work multiple jobs at once in as remote workers. Oftentimes it seems like without the employers knowing that there are other jobs. So they're like being simultaneously employed without being super overt about it. I think that's the message. I could be wrong on that.

• 37:12Shaan Puri?

  And it's, it's people who are trying to get to financial freedom faster by saying like, yeah, like actually, I have the capacity to do like multiple jobs. You know, instead of sort of spending 40 hours a week on one job, it's like, I can actually do a good job in 20 hours a week on two jobs and get paid double.

• 37:30Sam Parr?

  But that's not, that's the optimistic way to look at it. The probably realistic way, like I'm looking at the top title and it says, Jay, my J3 job, forgot about me today. And they say, I started my J3 yesterday. If I started, I mean, I was giving an orientation on Zoom and no one showed up. So now I'm just sitting here on the payroll.

• 37:49Shaan Puri?

  Right. Yeah. Yeah. There's people who are like, yeah, let's beat the system.

• 37:54Shaan Puri?

  And so there's like a basically a counter movement, but that kind of always happens. There's like a, there's like the movement and then there's the counter movement that comes shortly after. And like, it kind of polarizes. And then there's mainstream, which just does things the way they've been doing them. And they don't really pay too much attention to this stuff. And so, um, you know, that, that's kind of common for, for many, many, uh, many, many of these movements. I think subreddits are a great place to look for that.

• 38:18Sam Parr?

  That's so interesting. So there's this book that I've been meaning to read. It's on my

• 38:24Sam Parr?

  to read list and it's called Bullshit Jobs. And so it's this premise that like, I think it was a professor, some guy from School of Economics of London or something like that. And his whole like, I, again, this from memory, I didn't research this much. His whole idea here is that most jobs out there in the world, like at least in white color world, like it's, it's just kind of unnecessary. Like, and in to summarize it is like, take a company like HubSpot, Amazon, Twitter, like, what would happen if you like laid off two thirds of the people? Like, would it, would anything, do we, do we think anything would change other than the company would just make more profit? And this guy says, in, in most cases, yeah, it would actually, it would, it would run just fine. And most of the

• 39:06Sam Parr?

  jobs that you have are just worthless. And I, I kind of agree with him. I, I, I kind of agree. When I was, I don't have knowledge of it other than just personal experience, but I don't, it does sound like it.

• 39:21Shaan Puri?

  And it's hard because there's no counterfactuals. So you don't get to run the test and actually, you know, you can't split test and run, run both versions and see which one ends up better. But I've had this inkling for a while. When we were getting acquired and I, we were getting acquired by Twitch and as part of it, they're like, hey, you gotta like, you know, basically like, your whole team is going to come in for a day of interviews and that's going to decide kind of like if we take your whole team or not. And I had to do my interview as well. And so I'm going in there and they're like, you know, the classic job interview question, job interview structure is like, I ask you a bunch of questions for 95% of it. And then the last 5% of it, I'm like, so do you have any questions for us? And then you're supposed to say something that's also just you showing off to like, you know,

• 40:01Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 40:01Shaan Puri?

  show some other strength of yours, you know, in a different way. And, and I had one genuine question. I asked it to every single person and they were kind of like, taken aback slash, they thought I was kind of a jerk.

• 40:15Shaan Puri?

  Some people thought they reacted kind of well, like, oh, that's refreshing. I don't know. I haven't really thought about it. But I could tell other people were slightly offended by my question. And my question was, I would say, how many people work at Twitch? And they would be like, I think we're at 1,800 or 2,000 people now. I said, and how many people do you think, I forgot how I phrased it, but it was something like, how many people do you think Twitch needs to hit its goals? And I was like, how many people do you think should work here? All right, that's how many people do work here. How many people do you think should work here? And people were like, so I asked the CEO of this question too. And he was, he, I give him credit because he's someone who like prioritizes the truth over being right. Like getting it right is way

• 40:59Shaan Puri?

  better than being right. But he's also like a kind of a fierce debater. So he's not just gonna like lay down and be like, oh, you know, yeah, you're right. I changed my opinion about things. So he like, he took the question. He didn't like, I would say nine out of 10 CEOs would get quite offended by this question because it basically implies you've mismanaged the company by bloating.

• 41:14Sam Parr?

  It's a great, it's a great question. I would not be offended.

• 41:17Shaan Puri?

  He was not offended either. And he was like, he was like, that's a good question. He's like, I think like 2,200. So he was like, I think we're a little short of what we need to hit his goal. And he's like, he's, and then he, his take was basically like, you know, I'm not saying we have all the right people or the most talented people or that like, there's not people here who are underutilized or just kind of, you know, the fat. That wasn't really his point. It was like, I think we can be this much, this ambitious. And to do that, we would need, you know, like 2,200 awesome people like working in unison. I still think he was wrong. I think we, I think, you know, the company could have operated around a third of the people.

• 41:52Sam Parr?

  I would have followed up with a few questions. The first one would be, okay, but do you think that you need to hire 2,200 people because you know that only 10% of them are going to be actually value add and you just have to hire the, the rest in order to find that 10%? And then I would say, and also, is it possible that you only, that you think you need 2,200 because you really only need like 20% effort from all those people? And that's what your expectation is? And then finally, how much does redundancy come into play here? How much do people, are you just paying them? And you just don't want to mention to them, but you're paying them to sit on the bench. And when the person next to them quits, they just are ready to roll.

• 42:31Shaan Puri?

  Right. Uh, yeah, I didn't, I didn't follow up that hardcore about it. Uh, but I think those were, you know, very like valid, valid points. And also, you know, one thing I kind of learned from him was like, let's take that redundancy one, right? It sounds bad, right? It sounds like, oh, man, you're paying a bunch of people to kind of do nothing, just sit around.

• 42:47Sam Parr?

  No, it's insurance.

• 42:48Shaan Puri?

  And he's like, and that was exactly his take, which was like, I think it was on speed. I was complaining how slow we were going. And he's like, speed, he's like going slow. Sometimes a feature, not a bug here. And he's like, or like innovation. I was like, oh man, we're not really innovating everybody else's. He didn't say this outright, but I, you know, I gathered this through our conversations, which is like, there are some things we're going to innovate on. But actually, the optimal strategy here is to let a bunch of startups go out and try to innovate. And then if anything works, either buy them or clone them. Like, that is actually the best way for us to innovate. It's like, it's free. We get way more experiments done by super caliber, you know, super hungry, motivated people like startup founders and their teams, who are laser focused on just that one thing.

• 43:32Shaan Puri?

  And they'll try radical experiments that we would never otherwise do, and we don't have to fund it. But we can sit back and watch it. And then when we're ready, we can either go try to acquire them, partner with them. Or if they don't want to do any, either of those, we could build our own and just use our distribution and our brand. Which, you know, we have, if we have, you know, X millions of users, then we should be able to outcompete them from there. And I think that's actually, it is the optimal strategy.

• 43:55Sam Parr?

  I agree with him, I think, on most things. I imagine I would.

• 43:59Shaan Puri?

  And by the way, I should, I should say, I'm not putting words in his mouth. This is like, what I gathered from a bunch of, bunch of different conversations. I'm sure he would disagree with like, you know, 40 or 50% of what I just said, some paraphrasing him poorly.

• 44:12Sam Parr?

  Yeah. And it's just like your opinion on your takeaway.

• 44:14Shaan Puri?

  My take of his takes.

• 44:16Sam Parr?

  And I, I think I would agree with, I bet, I would agree with a lot of what he thinks. My issue is when you're like, a small company, like under 50 people, you're all in it, a lot of times you're in it for a mission. You're in it to achieve something. I think that you can get away with just being in it because people just like being in the thick of it with their friends. Like they just like the action. When you get a little bit bigger, I think it's less mission oriented and you're, and it's just a job. But you still have to put on this face like this to inspire people. And it kind of sucks because the truth is, is like, well, you know, I, I know that, you know, a lot of you are only working 40% and that's, I'm okay with that. I baked that into this. I know that a lot of you aren't working at all, but.

• 45:01Sam Parr?

  You're really just here in case the guy next to you quits and then hopefully you're going to train the next person. And I know that a lot of you want to innovate and try these new things, but that's not really what we're going to do. We're going to keep doing the same shit, just a little bit better. And then maybe every once in a while, I'm going to have a team that makes something totally new. And I know all this, but just tough and figuring out how to navigate and but have that like to say what I just said, but in a really inspiring way, or unfortunately just lie. You gotta lie or just act.

• 45:27Shaan Puri?

  Saying it is actually the best way.

• 45:28Sam Parr?

  Yeah, just act. You gotta just act and pretend. And be a politician a little bit. I find that to be incredibly challenging, but I think it's incredibly necessary.

• 45:38Shaan Puri?

  Yes, you're spot on. You're spot on with that. You are spot on with with what you just said.

• 45:47Sam Parr?

  Do you think you could do it?

• 45:51Shaan Puri?

  You know, the, I think the thing you said, so have you ever heard of Dunbar's number?

• 45:56Sam Parr?

  Yeah. What's it mean again?

• 45:57Shaan Puri?

  So Dunbar's number is basically it's 150. That's the number. And it's meant to represent the number of different, like, how many people you can know? How many people you are familiar, you like know their name, their face? How many people can one person know actually, right? Like somebody's like, I got 6,000 friends. Like now, well, you don't really know 6,000 people. And so Dunbar's number was was used to be 150. It's like in a tribe, you could know 100 up to 150. You could know everybody in the tribe. Past 150, you don't know everybody in the tribe. And then tools like social media and stuff came out that kind of like, it's like a tool for the human body to like do more. So like you might be able to know and keep up with more than 150 people now. Because Facebook makes it easy with the news feed and photos and their name is listed there and whatever. You get to see it all the time.

• 46:43Shaan Puri?

  I think what you're saying is like your version of Dunbar's number, which is 50. And it's like below Dunbar's Dunbar's number. I'll call it. Below 50, below 50.

• 46:57Shaan Puri?

  The people who are there are like, you know, down for the cause, like the larger prior, obviously they care about themselves, but like. A bigger, like, one of the top factors, either number one or number two can be like the cause. And then like

• 47:10Sam Parr?

  Or even just like, just like, you know, like that kid who said he wants to do hood rat stuff with his friends, like, that, that could be the cause. Like, I just wanna, I just, it's just, uh, there was a viral video, uh, like, uh, years ago, and they interviewed this, like, nine-year-old who, um, stole his grandmother's car and crashed it. And the guy was like, why did you, why did you steal her car? That's, that was really bad of you. And he goes, he goes, I try to be good, but sometimes I just like doing hood rat stuff with my friends, like smoking cigarettes and driving cars. Play the video, play the video, Ben. You gotta play that really quick. Can you play it?

• 47:46Speaker 03

  Along the way, he ran over two mailboxes, hit two parked cars in a Costco parking lot, and struck two moving cars near Walmart.

• 47:53Speaker 04

  I wanna do, cuz it's fun, fun to do bad things, and drive into a car.

• 47:59Speaker 03

  But did you know that you could perhaps kill somebody?

• 48:01Speaker 04

  Yes, but I wanted to do hood rat stuff with my friend.

• 48:03Sam Parr?

  First of all- That's how I feel about startups.

• 48:06Shaan Puri?

  The YouTube feature for this podcast just took us to a whole new level already. First one is great. Second, we need to pull the clip of, yeah, just sometimes I wanna do hood rat shit with my friends. And that needs to be a sound clip, Ben, that you can just play when me and Sam are talking about something dumb that we're doing. Uh, so just, just go ahead and cut that one out. That's the first-

• 48:24Sam Parr?

  That's the best part about, that's the best part about startups. Like, I don't care if it's ad tech, I don't care if I'm selling clothing, I don't get, like, it feels like- When you're, when you're like pulling shit off and you're like, kinda fibbing to people and like, yeah, you know, we've been, we're, you know, we really care about our customers, our team is, it's like just three of you, and you know, it's like, you're just like trying to pretend that you're a big deal. Like, that's hood rat shit, and I love doing that with my friends.

• 48:46Speaker 04

  But I wanted to do hood rat stuff with my friend.

• 48:49Shaan Puri?

  By the way, have you struggled to do that, uh, now that you're a big enterprise, you know, SaaS company that's like worth billions of dollars and hood rat shit is now frowned upon? And you're like, I just yanked it, I yanked it. Um, you can't, and they're like, you just yanked it, Sam? Why did you do that? We have a process for that.

• 49:12Shaan Puri?

  Because I definitely could think of like two or three examples where I was bragging about something I did that was like the startup scrappy thing.

• 49:18Sam Parr?

  Like what?

• 49:19Shaan Puri?

  Well, I would just be like, yeah, like, you know, like, for example, there was like a competitor. And I like went, met, I like talked to the founder and I was like, yeah, like, you know, I basically found out a bunch of their numbers and I was like, oh yeah, you know, they're growing this fast, this how they're doing blah, blah. And they're like, well, how do you know that? And I was like, well, I talked to him. I told him I was interested in blah, blah, blah. And they're like, oh.

• 49:43Shaan Puri?

  Uh, I was like, what? And they're like, well, you know, we just usually we don't, we don't do hood rat shit. Basically it was like the, the reward I thought I was creating was like, well, we're going to need to talk to legal and also corp dev is going to have to, you know, we have a guy whose job is to have those conversations and we, we typically sign a lot of engagement before, you know, like, whatever. It was like, not the exact example, but like things that in the startup, when I was doing my startup, I would be so proud of my hack about like whatever. Or like, I remember once I was negotiating a partnership deal and like, basically I was just like really negotiating for like every, like every inch, which as a startup, I used to love winning a deal, like doing it, getting a good deal for ourselves. And, um, and they were just like, you know,

• 50:28Shaan Puri?

  they're like, you know what? Like we'd rather just use our standard deal and it's more favorable for him. So he'll be happy and we don't have to like, you know, let you like negotiate deal by deal on these things. And like, you know, in general, we don't really want you negotiating directly with the person. We have like partnerships, people who do that.

• 50:45Sam Parr?

  You're like the guy from the Big Lebowski.

• 50:49Sam Parr?

  You're like the Big Lebowski guy. It's like, dude, you need a toe? I'll get you a toe. Uh, I, I, I'll get you a toe if you need a toe. Um, can I, let me ask you a quick question before we wrap up. Um, do you think, okay, this question isn't a good question because it is in fact possible. And I have many of, many examples, but getting wealthy, like we're talking nine figures liquid net worth wealth, getting wealthy, do you think it is?

• 51:19Sam Parr?

  In, um, I want to say impossible, but it's not. So I have to change my, change my question, but I'm going to say it with the possible anyway. Is it, is it really hard to do it just from cash flow? Or do you think you have to sell, sell something, sell a business, sell real estate, sell something, capital gains versus income?

• 51:37Shaan Puri?

  You're saying liquid, so not paper, not, not, not your paper net worth.

• 51:42Sam Parr?

  Um, liquid, which includes things, things that could be traded in 30 days.

• 51:49Shaan Puri?

  Very hard, very hard to do just off cash flow, I believe. Um, I think, you know, it's just much slower, right? Because you can, I mean, just look at the basics, right? Like, when you sell something, you're going to sell it for some multiple of the free cash flow that it's going to generate for you, right? And so, so just by definition, right?

• 52:10Sam Parr?

  10 or 20 years.

• 52:11Shaan Puri?

  Sometimes it's 5X, sometimes it's 10X, sometimes it's 20X, sometimes it's 3X, whatever. There's different multiples for different industries, but like fundamentally, it's a multiple, which is a multiplier on how fast you're going to get the money, the value out. So let's say to get to 100 million, uh, whatever number of years that would take, you then have to divide that by five, and that's like how fast at minimum you could have got there just selling the, the asset, um, and get it and taking the 5X multiple, right? So, so, you know, of course you can get there, but do I know ways you can get there with the same speed? I don't think so. Cause even those are like, I take the cash flow, I invested in a thing, and then that thing grows faster and like I can sell my stake in that. So, you know,

• 52:52Sam Parr?

  Because it's like, you, you have a choice. So you could spend your time, you know, you could spend, uh, your time building a service or some type of business where you can make significant cash flow to $3 million a year, not work that much, but it's not necessarily an asset that could be sold. So there's a few businesses like this, or it could just be like, um, like the way that this podcast gets paid, like it's not like a particularly, maybe, but maybe the podcast is not a good example, but it's not, you know what I mean? Not necessarily an asset, like your Maven course, your Maven course is not an asset that could be sold.

• 53:24Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 53:24Sam Parr?

  But it could potentially make many millions of dollars a year versus you just say, you know what? Screw it. I'm not doing that because I have to build a business that could sell. So do you prefer, do you think cash flow or, or, or an entity, an asset that is independent of you and can be sold?

• 53:46Shaan Puri?

  I don't know. I don't think do I prefer is really the right way to think about it. It's like you need both, right? Like, for example,

• 53:53Shaan Puri?

  I you need both for two reasons. One is maybe you're going to use the cash flow to invest, right? Maybe what you're going to do is you're going to buy great assets and let them compound over time. Well, where are you going to get the cash flow to begin with, right? When we had Andrew on it last week, he's like, I took the cash flow from the design agency of MetaLab and I used it to buy majority stakes on all these other businesses. And then let those compound over 10 years and like boom, you know, so he reached, you know, that goal and more, uh, doing that. And so you, you know, maybe you need the cash flow to make those investments, right? Like if you have no cash flow, how are you going to invest in anything? And secondly, um, I like to live a good lifestyle. So sometimes cash flow businesses are great because it's like, yeah, I sure compounding is awesome.

• 54:35Shaan Puri?

  But so is, you know, like fucking, I don't know, Gucci shoes or whatever. Like choose your, choose your thing you're into. Like, yeah, Gucci shoes, like sometimes those are better than like this.

• 54:44Sam Parr?

  Yeah, dude.

• 54:45Shaan Puri?

  20 year buy and hold asset.

• 54:47Sam Parr?

  Whenever I hear Buffett talk about the long term and like patience, I'm like, bitch, you're like 95. Like there is no long term. There you don't have, you shouldn't have patience anymore. You should have like, you should immediately spend whatever you want to spend. There is no such thing as a long term view for you.

• 55:06Shaan Puri?

  See like the headline, Sam Parr, Colin to Warren Buffett, bitch, you're 95. There is no long term.

• 55:15Sam Parr?

  You're right.

• 55:15Shaan Puri?

  That's what I think about.

• 55:16Sam Parr?

  He needs to pivot his strategy. Well, I'm just like, you know, like, if you want to do it, you have to be fine. But like, and Bezos talks about this too. He's like, I'm like, I mean, you don't really, who cares? Like, you know, just live life how you want to live. You got it. Yeah. And so I've always, it's like, why are you delaying? It always, it always pissed me off. I'm like, why are you delaying to have the best time of your, of your life when you're like old and don't even want to do shit? Like you, you don't have to do that anymore.

• 55:43Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Uh, and you know, some people are happy along the way. That's, that's fine. But like, uh, but yeah, I feel like you had it. I feel like you asked me this question because you had an opinion or a story. So let's just skip to that part because I think you have a good opinion or story on this.

• 55:59Sam Parr?

  I don't have a, no, I don't have an opinion yet, but I'm like, with my life now, it's like, I can, I, I think that in, I think in six to, I think in a matter of six months, I could probably create a business from scratch. That does a million dollars a year in profit. It would be based off of like my image. I'm not saying I have that. I'm just saying like, I, I'm sure I could do that. Plus with like a couple of other side projects, I think I could very realistically have two or three million dollars a year in cash flow.

• 56:26Shaan Puri?

  Easily.

• 56:26Sam Parr?

  But very, but yeah, easy. And maybe I do already have, I'm not, I don't even want to say I do or do not, but I.

• 56:34Sam Parr?

  But like.

• 56:35Shaan Puri?

  If you did, that would have been a weird way to say it. It would have been a weird hypothetical, but okay, let's continue on.

• 56:41Sam Parr?

  I got some cool shit going on, I'll say, but, and I'm thinking about where I spend my time and I'm like, is it actually worth it? Like, or should you just not care about cash flow and build something that's like much bigger that you could sell? I don't know. I'm just trying to figure out, I'm like, where do you actually spend time? The real answer is what gives you most joy.

• 56:58Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. And, and like, uh, whether, uh, you don't work backwards from, do I want cash flow or do I want long-term, you know, capital gains? That's not like the starting point of a decision. Um, you kind of just need to make sure you're winning in one way or the other. Uh, don't be weak in either area or like, don't be weak in both, basically is like the way to do it. Like, for example, you could buy a home in San Francisco, you're going to have terrible income from that property. It's not a good income property because in most places, San Francisco, your rent, uh, the rent you could charge somebody is not going to outpay the mortgage plus.

• 57:30Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it's gonna make a 3% cap.

• 57:32Shaan Puri?

  But you can go buy, you know, some home in whatever, you know, Houston or something like that. It can cash flow a thousand dollars, $2,000 a month and it's good income property, but it's, you know, going to appreciate super fucking slow. Whereas the, the San Francisco home, you know, in 10 years is going to have, you know, whatever, more than doubled in, in value. And so, you know, it's a, there's appreciation properties and income properties, same thing. Like, I think you just do whatever gives you the kind of, whatever's, whatever gives you juice today and you think might give you juice going forward. And then you gotta say, all right, before I do this, I gotta make sure it's going to be strong in either one of these. Either it's gotta be awesome for cash flow or it's gotta be awesome for, for, uh, appreciation.

• 58:11Shaan Puri?

  And if it's awesome for cash flow, basically I'm just going to use the cash flow to buy assets that are going to appreciate with somebody else doing the work instead of me doing the work. It's, you kind of end up at the same point either way.

• 58:21Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I don't know. I've just been thinking about like how to spend time. You know who's killing it and he's done a really good job of like putting off making cash is our friend Nick Huber. I am an investor and so I get to see some of the numbers of his storage deals and I don't think he crushed it like in terms of personal cash flow for a long time, but like the way that things have compounded, I'm like, oh, holy moly, if you just eat shit for like six, seven years and pick the right asset, things look really cool.

• 58:51Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Yeah, I think he's done great. And also I think he is like a, I think he personally has great terms with his investors, meaning like, I think it's quite favorable to him.

• 59:01Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 59:02Shaan Puri?

  Incredibly. Bad way, but like, he makes sure he gets to eat, right? Whereas at the beginning, if you have no capital, you're like, you know, you sort of make a deal with the devil in a way where you're like, all right, I'm gonna take no management fees, no acquisition fees, and a low carry. And I think now he's like, look, I'm good and I know it. So I'm gonna take a higher fee, higher, higher acquisition fee, and I'm gonna take, you know, my, my healthy carry. So, you know, you know, good on him. I think a lot of people in real estate are able to do that pretty well. I know somebody's crushing it in real estate and they, they do just that. They, they have like a, you know, fucking 50% carry on the deal or something, something crazy. And they're like, yeah, because my deals are awesome.

• 59:38Sam Parr?

  I make hits.

• 59:39Shaan Puri?

  And I win. So like, it doesn't make sense for me to do this at any less than that. And I'm like, there's this, that's like, next level winning.

• 59:47Sam Parr?

  There's this awesome, you know who Foo Fighters are? You know, Dave Grohl, Dave Grohl's the lead singer of Foo Fighters. Yeah. And they've been writing hits forever. And before that, he was the drummer Nirvana. So he's like, just wrote hit after hit for a long time. And someone asked him about, uh, he's like, um, you know, you write hits and what's your process? And like, a, a fan was asking about old music and he, but, and he stopped, he goes, wait a minute, let me cut you off here. He goes, I don't write deep cuts. I write hits. And he was just like, he's like, everything I write, I write it to be a hit. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, but it is, it's all meant to be. And that's like your real estate friends. He's like, I write hits. That's why he gets that 50% carry.

• 1:00:28Shaan Puri?

  Exactly, exactly. And respect, I respect somebody who's like, I'm playing the game and I play to win the game. You know, I'm not playing something else. I'm not gonna tell you I'm not playing the game. I am playing the game and I'm playing to win. It's actually like, I really respect people who just clearly play the game and they're like open about it and like, yeah, I play the game. I'm playing to win. And here's, you know, like, good. If you dislike the game or dislike me, that is your choice. And I actually dislike people that are like virtue signal types where it's like, they are playing the game, but they'll do anything in their power to like, make it look like they're not playing the game. And there's a lot of that, like in Silicon Valley, there's a lot of that. Here's how that plays out that I see.

• 1:01:11Shaan Puri?

  There's person starts the company, bullshits about like, why they're doing the company or why this problem is the problem. They decided to spend their life on it. Like, you're, you know, you're doing this because it's good business, not because you really wanted to help, you know, small to medium sized enterprise businesses save money on whatever, right? Like, that wasn't your actual intention. You probably like that, that you have happy customers and that they're good, you know, you're helping them. But like, let's be real.

• 1:01:41Sam Parr?

  It's like, we're saving the world, one cloud. Have you ever seen on Silicon Valley, they go, we're saving the world, one cloud processor at a time, or some bullshit.

• 1:01:53Sam Parr?

  It's like, and then they're like, they're like, they're like, someone calls them out. They're like, dude, this is all rich guy. Like Kid Rock just was the singer for the, for the, for the show and he's the poorest guy here.

• 1:02:05Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. And so, so I think in Silicon Valley, you see that a lot. You'll also see that with the origin story about like, you know, why they decided to do this. You're like, oh, are you sure you decided to do this because you know, your cousin got diagnosed with this, you know, rare thing and that's why? Or, or was it that you ran paid ads at five different products? And this was the one with the highest click through rate? Cause I'm pretty sure when I was talking to you, it was, this was the highest click through rate. All right, cool. That's my company, right? Like, there's a lot of that. The other one is.

• 1:02:34Sam Parr?

  The guy who started Dollar Shave Club, I saw an interview with him and some of the times he's like, I started Dollar Shave Club because I was just sick of going to Walgreens and I had to ask them to like, open up the razors. And then another interview who was like, he's like, man, my father-in-law is like crazy and he likes just to buy random stuff. And one time he bought a shipping container full of cheap razors and we just had to figure out a way how to sell them all.

• 1:02:57Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:02:58Sam Parr?

  That's why we did it.

• 1:02:58Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. And, you know, I'm in the 2% of the population, I think you are too, where we're like, oh, sweet, respect for trying to flip the storage container and then realizing there's a business there. Versus like, you know, the, the, the kind of like, the Shark Tank version of the story, which was like, we were just so fed up with our options, right? And like, I get, again, I get it. I've done that. I might do that again, but I might a little bit disgusted by it. Yes. Same thing with, same thing with, I'll do that usually when I have business partners, not when it's my own business. Like when I'm, when I'm the only, when I get to just be a cowboy on my own, I'll just do what I want and be like, yeah, I don't care if this is bad for the business. It's fine.

• 1:03:38Sam Parr?

  The, the other day I ate a, I ate an entire jar in one sitting of peanut butter from, it was the Jiffy cheap shit. And I just felt so bad about myself, but I didn't regret it. And that's kind of like how you feel.

• 1:03:48Speaker 04

  But I wanted to do her stuff with my friend.

• 1:03:51Sam Parr?

  Mission statements are like a pint of Ben and Jerry's. Like, i- i- if it feels good doing it and you may not regret it, but, but you feel guilty about yourself.

• 1:04:01Shaan Puri?

  The, the other version of this is like people who on Twitter are like, uh, they call this like shit posters or they're like, you know, they basically,

• 1:04:08Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:09Shaan Puri?

  They basically try to signal like, you know, I'm not gonna just, I'm not one of those investors who blogs about content and tries to,

• 1:04:17Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I'm a cool mom.

• 1:04:18Shaan Puri?

  I'll tell you the real deal and I'll, I'll make jokes and blah, blah. It's like, they're the ones trying to carefully curate their brand more than anyone. If you actually meet these people, they're like so conscious about their brand. And like, you know, how, how many followers they're getting and like how viral their stuff is going and like, they are, you know, like, uh, they're, they are so meticulous about that stuff while trying to give off their appearance. It's like bed head, right? It's like, oh no, I just woke up like this. It's like, oh, are you sure you don't use a product called bed head that like, you know, like, makes it look slightly messy, but like, you know, you're actually caring where every strand of hair goes. And so, you know, I have more respect for like, um, people who are like, yeah, like, you know, like pomp or Sahil or they're like, yeah, like,

• 1:05:03Shaan Puri?

  people really like to hear about Bitcoin. So I just tweet Bitcoin shit all the time. It's great. Like I like Bitcoin and they like Bitcoin. So I'll just tweet like, I'll just set up a calendar. I'll be like, yeah, I'm going to tweet Bitcoin stuff. Because I figured if I get a big Bitcoin following, that'll be really, really good for me. Or like, you know, Sal was like, yeah, I put it, I put out these threads about these like finance topics. Cause I think I'm good at it and they go viral and then it gives me all these dope connections. Versus like, you know, I just want like, I feel that knowledge is, um, you know, knowledge needs to be accessible for all and free. And that's why.

• 1:05:31Sam Parr?

  We need to democratize knowledge.

• 1:05:34Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I want to democratize financial knowledge. Like I used to work on Wall Street and the insiders know things that the rest of us don't. So I quit my job and started writing Twitter threads about finance to democratize finance. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. You, you didn't do any of that. You wanted followers. And so you did what it took to get followers.

• 1:05:52Sam Parr?

  Have you noticed how the word democratizes the new disrupt?

• 1:05:56Shaan Puri?

  Democratizes like, you know, what is democratized?

• 1:06:01Sam Parr?

  It's the new.

• 1:06:01Shaan Puri?

  Democratize is the new like, um, no offense, but.

• 1:06:08Shaan Puri?

  That's a democratize. Democratize is like about to fool you. This is good for me and not good for you, but I'm going to fool you by saying I'm democratizing something for you by my service, by my product. Yeah. By the way, I do all the, I do this myself. Like I, again, I know it. I spot it because I got it. All right. I've done all this before with my e-commerce brand. I've done the origin story thing with, uh, my fund. I do this too. Like my fund is called the all access fund because I wanted to give access to every, to access to all, to be able to invest in the deals I do. Do I feel good that other people get access to good Silicon Valley deals? Yeah, sure. Is that why I did the fund? Fuck. No, that's not why I did the fund, right? I did the fund because I was writing checks and I wanted to write bigger checks and more checks into more companies and more.

• 1:06:49Shaan Puri?

  And that was more than my personal bankroll would allow. So I raised money from other people to do that. And I get, you know, like, and so now I get to write more checks into more awesome companies. That's why I raised the fund, not because I wanted to democratize access to like, you know, angel investing for like, you know, a, a, a, a middle school teacher in Tennessee.

• 1:07:08Sam Parr?

  I can't stand democratize. We're going to democrat, democratize this by only charging you $50,000 for this piece of clothing. Instead of them like, I, I've seen people like, we're going to democratize knowledge and it's like a $5,000 course. I'm like, oh, not really, dude.

• 1:07:27Shaan Puri?

  You could democratize these nuts.

• 1:07:33Sam Parr?

  What do you think Ben? Was today, uh, were we with it or what?

• 1:07:38Ben?

  I thought today was a hit. I thought today was a huge hit. This is a. Yeah, other than like the Steph Smith episodes or Rob Dyrdek, this is uh, this is A plus territory.

• 1:07:47Shaan Puri?

  Did I not say at the beginning that this is gonna be a fire episode and I had the juice?

• 1:07:51Ben?

  You did say, although I actually the the beginning was a little bit slower. Um, but it was once you guys started getting into those trends and you were just hitting people, there was like, if you capitalize on one of those trends, you guys like they're like 20, 30 good businesses, you could start with ideas that were thrown out today.

• 1:08:07Shaan Puri?

  Ah, great. Are we gonna have to cut out my democratized these nuts?

• 1:08:17Sam Parr?

  And then, so we have to plan the MFM summit. So I agree that making it destination is cool. I have a thing that I, you're gonna have to bleep bleep out what I'm about to say, but.

• 1:08:28Shaan Puri?

  I know the thing. I know the thing. Yeah.

• 1:08:30Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I got the guy. I got a really like famous house. That person might be interested in hosting us. I don't know.

• 1:08:35Shaan Puri?

  That's just gonna be a dinner, right? Like, that's gonna be like.

• 1:08:37Sam Parr?

  No, no, no, no, no. We might be able to do a proper thing there, but I don't know if the logistics are gonna work out. So I think, but, but I think that we could do like something outrageous, you know, we have to think about what outrageous means. But I do think we're gonna have something outrageous. I think a cruise ship, I like it. That's, that's not a bad idea. A cruise ship or like some type of famous venue or fuck, we could just go to Hawaii. Let's do like in the beach in Hawaii. We can figure something out.

• 1:09:02Shaan Puri?

  But we do need to do like a summit. Fly out. Like if people are gonna have to travel for it, I think to get the value again, the easiest hack is, first make it a couple of days where people get to hang and meet each other. So do it, make it like a two day thing and then, and then secondly,

• 1:09:18Shaan Puri?

  just make it already fun. If it was just a vacation, if there was no content on top, but it's like, then you combine some content, getting to meet us and getting to meet other people in the community, plus already was a good like kind of vacation type experience. Then that's cool, right? And like, I don't know, let's do like, bring a fitness component, bring a like, let's bring all the components of the stuff we talk about. Where there's like, you know, experiences beyond sitting down and listening to people talk. It's like, why not do a group workout or like, let's get an MMA guy to like, you know, take us through a set, like, take people through a session or something. I don't know, like something like that.

• 1:09:54Sam Parr?

  Down. All right. Let's schedule it. I, I, do you, do you like that $500 price mark, price point?

• 1:10:01Shaan Puri?

  This, I mean, we should do this as an NFT, no doubt. We should make this an NFT and then only NFT holders can attend. And then they could flip their NFT to somebody else if they want to, but make it a limited number of NFTs for this.

• 1:10:14Sam Parr?

  Yeah, all right, that's it. All right, that's the episode.