#111 - Sam Parr Returns: The Scheme King is Back

Sam Parr (@theSamParr) is back with Shaan Puri (@ShaanVP) on the pod today after a leave of absence from the show. In today’s episode you’ll hear: Shaan and Sam talk about Sam’s medical condition and catch up generally (0:18), Sam asks Shaan for a recap on some of the episodes from while Sam was out and Shaan tells him about Kat Cole and her rise to corporate prominence (21:45), Shaan tells Sam about the show with the Jonathon Barkl from Air Garage (25:10), Shaan and Sam talk about cultural and ethnic food delivery options like SayWeee! (29:30), Sam asks Shaan how his rolling venture fund is going (40:00), Shaan explains what a rolling venture fund is (48:45). Our sponsor today is lemon.io! They are offering a 15% discount for the first 6 weeks of work for all MFM fans. Go to Lemon.io/mfm to claim the offer! Joined our private FB group yet? It's a page where people share each others million dollar ideas or what they're already working on: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ourfirstmillion. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:18Shaan Puri?

  Sam, you're back. Are you okay?

• 0:20Sam Parr?

  What's up?

• 0:21Shaan Puri?

  You gotta tell us.

• 0:24Sam Parr?

  Can you see me?

• 0:25Shaan Puri?

  I can see you.

• 0:26Sam Parr?

  Here's my face. Ready? Here's a smile.

• 0:29Shaan Puri?

  Handsome as ever. Look at that. So, I saw in the video you posted on Facebook. Well, we should tell people who don't follow you on Facebook. We should tell what's going on. So Sam was out last week.

• 0:39Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I've been out for about two weeks now.

• 0:41Shaan Puri?

  It sounded innocent at first. You were just like, "I'm not feeling..." I don't know. You said, "It kind of got worse and worse." I got more and more scared. It was like, "I'm not feeling great," to like, "I think I have a kidney stone," to like, "I gotta go to the hospital," to like, "I have kidney failure." And I was like, "What the fuck is going on?"

• 0:57Sam Parr?

  Yeah, dude, it's crazy. So let me tell you the story. So I have a history of kidney stones. So at the hospital, they looked at my kidneys. I have about 30 kidney stones, which is a lot.

• 1:07Shaan Puri?

  Like at all times? Or you've had them and passed them?

• 1:11Sam Parr?

  I've passed about eight. I have 30 in me as of right now.

• 1:15Shaan Puri?

  Oh my god. That's not normal, right?

• 1:17Sam Parr?

  It's not normal. It's not good. It's not bad. It just means you are gonna be in pain like 30 times.

• 1:22Shaan Puri?

  Oh my god.

• 1:23Sam Parr?

  And so, the other day, like two weeks ago, I started getting a stone. I could feel them. I could feel them coming whenever they're about to come. And I go to the hospital and I pass it and they give me morphine and I'm like, "I still feel sick." Like, I was like, "I feel ill."

• 1:37Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 1:38Sam Parr?

  Like, "I don't feel well." And they're like, "You're probably fine. Just like, shake it off." Basically is what they said. And then like, three days later, I woke up and I had this massive rash all over my chest. And I had still been feeling sick. And to the point of like, my legs were hurting me. I couldn't like, move. I couldn't like, walk one day. I was like, "I'm dying." I was like, "I think my..." So I go to the hospital and I was like, "I think I'm having kidney failure." And they looked at it. They're like, "Yeah, you might have an infection or something's going on with your kidneys." So they do all these tests and they're like, "Nothing's wrong with your kidneys." They're like, "Yeah, we see on the CAT scan, you passed a stone, but like, this shouldn't cause you pain." And then eventually they're like, "Oh wait, we think you have Lyme disease." And so...

• 2:23Shaan Puri?

  From what? How do they know that? They just know?

• 2:27Sam Parr?

  So Lyme, Lyme disease is like, they don't have like many tests. Like, so you kind of do it on symptoms.

• 2:33Shaan Puri?

  Okay.

• 2:34Sam Parr?

  And so I had this like, my, my, um, my teeth were hurting me so badly. My, I thought I had a toothache. And then my arms were hurting me and my legs, like I had all these nerve pain. And that is like a Lyme disease thing. And I felt like I had a fever, just like sick.

• 2:52Shaan Puri?

  And you get Lyme disease from a tick, right? A tick bite, is that right?

• 2:55Sam Parr?

  From a little ass tick. A tick can be the size of a period at the end of a sentence, just tiny. And so I called Jack Smith. I go, Jack, man, I'm, something's wrong with me. Doctors can't figure it out. I go, this does not feel right. And he goes, I know the person you need to talk to. So I'm not going to say this person's name, but um, maybe I will one day. But basically, he puts me in touch with this person. And she, um, her story is that she's a billionaire who, her and um, she had a hedge fund. And a multi-billion dollar, ten billion dollar hedge fund. And they shut it down because they got sick. And it was from Lyme. And Jack knew her from a, some event.

• 3:37Sam Parr?

  And he puts me in touch with this woman, and she doesn't even ask my name. For three days, she talks to me for like two hours a day, helping me diagnose what's wrong. Eventually, she goes, hey, you have an appointment with this doctor tomorrow. I go, okay, that's cool. Uh, she told me all about the doctor. She goes, but it's really expensive and I didn't feel like you complaining about it. Or like even worrying about it. So I just paid for it. I was like, no, you don't need to do that. And she goes, no, I already, like, I already paid, so you don't have a choice. So this woman paid 25 grand.

• 4:06Shaan Puri?

  Oh, my God.

• 4:07Sam Parr?

  For a private doctor for me. And so I get this doctor who's like, oh, yeah, dude, you got Lyme. Here's everything that's wrong. And then just coincidentally, I wake up the next day and my, my face is complete, like, one side is completely paralyzed. And uh,

• 4:23Shaan Puri?

  That's scary. What, like, when you woke up like that, what was that like?

• 4:27Sam Parr?

  I woke up and I messaged either you or Abreu. I was like, I feel ill. I don't know what's wrong with me. I was like, I'm just so tired because my eye, I couldn't open my eye. I was like, maybe I'm just tired. And it wasn't until 3pm that my wife saw my face and she looked at me and she goes, "Why are you, uh, why are you smiling like that?" I was like, "What are you talking about?" She's like, "Look at yourself. What are you doing?" I go, "Oh my God." And I felt it. I go, "I can't move my face. I can't move it." That's, I was like, "I wasn't tired. I can't open my eye." And, uh,

• 4:59Shaan Puri?

  I can't believe it took you that long in the day to figure that out.

• 5:02Sam Parr?

  I just thought that like I was groggy. I thought I was groggy. You're like, you know how you like have sleep in your eyes and like your face feels heavy? I thought like I was groggy. I was like, "What is wrong with me?" And she's like, "Your fucking face, it's frozen. Like it's not moving." So anyway, long story short, I've got, um,

• 5:18Shaan Puri?

  So wait, what did this doctor, this like crazy doctor do or say like that was different or better?

• 5:23Sam Parr?

  He, he, I'm on, and I have an IV in me 24 hours a day for 30 days.

• 5:28Shaan Puri?

  Okay.

• 5:28Sam Parr?

  Um,

• 5:29Shaan Puri?

  What's that connected to?

• 5:31Sam Parr?

  Um, at the end of the night, I gotta go and plug this tube.

• 5:35Shaan Puri?

  And refill it or something. Okay.

• 5:37Sam Parr?

  Yeah. And into like an IV and it's called a PICC line and I, um, basically am taking like 30 pills a day. And hopefully it goes away.

• 5:46Shaan Puri?

  And there's no like cure for Lyme disease, right?

• 5:50Sam Parr?

  Antibiotics, but it's not necessarily a cure, but I've learned all these things about Lyme. Like I don't even know if it's true or I don't know what I believe, but they say that like Lyme, like Lyme is from, you know how like people say that a lab in Wuhan created Corona and like escaped? That's what they like, some conspiracy theorists, that's what they think about Lyme. They're like, "Yeah. So we, we used to drop ticks above Soviet Union or in Cuba and we would infect them uh, with this disease and somehow that made its way to us in America." So that's like the conspiracy. I don't know what's true or what's not, but I, I tweeted out that I had it. I've gotten literally thousands of messages from people saying like, "I have this. No one believed me."

• 6:31Sam Parr?

  Um, I like, I, I was in a wheelchair. Dude, it's fucked up. It's crazy.

• 6:36Shaan Puri?

  So what is the prognosis?

• 6:39Sam Parr?

  Just like take these drugs and hopefully in 60 days you'll be better. I mean, that's pretty much it. One day I woke up and I legitimately couldn't walk. Like I couldn't, like my feet, um, like I couldn't hold my body weight.

• 6:51Shaan Puri?

  But now you can.

• 6:53Sam Parr?

  Yeah, but I can't exercise. I can, I can walk for sure. Um, but like the same way my face is all messed up. That's how my legs felt a little bit.

• 7:02Shaan Puri?

  That is so insane. Oh my God.

• 7:06Sam Parr?

  And so like, no one can see me right now, but like, one, one side of my face just looks kind of like dead. I just look like I.

• 7:12Shaan Puri?

  Well, it looks normal when you're doing, when you're not doing anything, but when you smile, it's more like one side, the other side doesn't.

• 7:19Sam Parr?

  It's just like creepy looking. Um, so it sucks. It just sucks.

• 7:26Shaan Puri?

  And do you, are you like optimistic or what do you think is gonna happen here?

• 7:30Sam Parr?

  I think it's gonna go away and I think I'll be back to normal, but it doesn't feel, it doesn't feel like it's gotten better so far. And, uh, I like have, have had massive amounts of anxiety. Like, you know how, you know how like when you go and get your wisdom teeth pulled or get dental work done and you feel swollen and you feel numb in your gums?

• 7:49Shaan Puri?

  Right. You don't feel right.

• 7:50Sam Parr?

  That's just how I.

• 7:51Shaan Puri?

  It's like your body's not a part of you.

• 7:53Sam Parr?

  Yeah. And, and you're like, this is never gonna, it's like, when you're like high on weed, you're like, is this ever like, what did this used to feel like? Will I ever feel that? You're like, what, like, has this been like this forever? Like, what is normal? I don't even remember normal. And it's only been like a week, but that's all I'm like, oh, I just want this shit to work.

• 8:11Shaan Puri?

  So should we even do this podcast or should we be like, I don't know, like going and researching Lyme disease cures? What, what should we be doing right now?

• 8:19Sam Parr?

  Uh, we definitely should do this podcast. I mean, I, I need to get back to work, but I would say that it's like from a opportunity. I mean, I'm always scheming like that. First of all, it's so expensive. I've had to spend a lot of money. Um, also like rich people. First, like this is an obvious thing, but I've seen it firsthand. Rich people like hundred million, two hundred, three hundred million dollar people. They totally have an advantage in this, in like, in life when it comes to medical stuff. I mean, this is like an obvious thing, but now that this woman hooked it up. It's awesome having a private doctor. This is what rich people do.

• 8:55Shaan Puri?

  Right. Yeah. What do they call it? House doctor or what, what do they call it?

• 8:58Sam Parr?

  Concierge doctor. Have you ever heard of, have you ever heard of this?

• 9:01Shaan Puri?

  I heard of this. Uh, I've obviously never done it, never really, never really known anybody who did it, but I had heard about this. Um. It is it like, I think it's basically just like a doctor on retainer. It's a doctor on call for you that will come make house visits when you need it. Like your treatment is done. It's like an alternative whole like healthcare system that costs like, I don't know, a couple hundred grand a year.

• 9:22Sam Parr?

  Yeah, or in this case 25 grand, but yes, like everything is done on your and you like I can text them. And then what I've learned is that like, like even guys like Peter Attia, you know, that guy, I think he's, I think technically he's a doctor. I don't know if he's a doctor or just a smart person, but like he gets paid a hundred grand per client just to do this. And he has like 10 clients.

• 9:41Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 9:41Sam Parr?

  It's crazy and 25 grand is a lot of money, but if you make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. It's like, I started thinking about this, I'm like, maybe I should just like pay for this because it is kind of like,

• 9:54Sam Parr?

  pretty amazing to like have a doctor handle you all the time. So like you only need it one time for me to make a world of difference.

• 10:01Shaan Puri?

  If you're coming out of med school or you're like, you know, a young doctor, why wouldn't you go this route of being a private doctor to the rich and famous? Like that, that sounds pretty sweet, probably way less competitive than whatever you're trying to do.

• 10:12Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I don't know if it like, I, I know, I mean, it's definitely probably not as fulfilling as helping someone. I mean, like I'm in need, but I could just go to the hospital probably, but yeah, I mean, I'm in need, but yeah, I'm not like a,

• 10:25Sam Parr?

  I don't know, it doesn't feel, I imagine maybe they feel differently, but this concierge doctor business is crazy. It's cool.

• 10:31Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 10:31Sam Parr?

  It's cool. And then like home nurses are pretty cool too. So I'm paying like four grand to have a nurse come to my house and like do all this shit for me. It's nuts, man.

• 10:41Shaan Puri?

  Wow. Okay.

• 10:42Sam Parr?

  Have you heard a good, have you, all right, we could talk about business now. Have you heard of GoodRx?

• 10:48Shaan Puri?

  I've seen the commercials for it. Yeah. I don't know what's interesting about it.

• 10:51Sam Parr?

  Oh my God, you don't even need insurance. GoodRx is the greatest thing ever. So.

• 10:56Shaan Puri?

  They get you cheap drugs, right?

• 10:57Sam Parr?

  They get you cheap drugs and they're going public and it's like crazy profitable. They make like 400 million in revenue and like a hundred million in profit as a privately held company. That's all, that's less than 10 years old. And what it does is apparently in the, this, it's so complicated for me to understand, but apparently in the healthcare system, there's all these middlemen. And so let's say that like some drug, drug X, um, only costs $5 or something for a prescription. Because it goes through all these people, then it eventually costs a hundred dollars and your insurance pays for a little bit of it and you pay for 20, whatever. What GoodRx? Does is I go to the pharmacy and they're like, all right, you have um doxy, which is like the antibiotic that I have. It's like eight hundred dollars for some reason for this shit I gotta take.

• 11:40Sam Parr?

  And because I'm in, dude, I'm on Kaiser, which means I'm in New York, so I gotta pay out of pocket. So anyway, I just pull up my app and I just type in the word doxy, this many milligrams, this many times uh uh like this size. Um, and it just says, all right, what pharmacy are you at? I go Rite Aid and it goes boom, twenty three dollars. Here's a discount. It's only twenty three bucks. And I just show them my phone and they go, okay, cool.

• 12:03Shaan Puri?

  Uh, why are they able to offer these discounts?

• 12:06Sam Parr?

  I don't understand how this works. It's so confusing, but I imagine what they do is they make an affiliate fee from the, directly from the drug provider.

• 12:14Shaan Puri?

  Right. Yeah, it's probably very simple. I I haven't looked into what what this is, but yeah, I they get you cheap drugs somehow. I didn't know if it's because they're cutting out a middleman or if they're like, they're getting a kickback for for affiliate and then they give you a share of their kickback or it's something like that. Um, because it's just like a new, it's like a layer on top of what exists.

• 12:34Sam Parr?

  It's amazing. And I think there's one called Script Relief. That's another business in the space that's doing this. They're, th- these are amazing companies because um it truly provides value to the the person using it, you know, like, it, my bill went from two grand at the pharmacy to like a hundred bucks.

• 12:53Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 12:54Sam Parr?

  And it's so profitable. So it's an awesome company.

• 12:59Shaan Puri?

  That's cool. Okay, so we're just gonna do the podcast. We're just gonna do the business podcast. It's a uh, it's so funny to me that we're gonna do that. I feel like, I only want to talk about you, but uh,

• 13:08Sam Parr?

  What is there? I mean, there's not,

• 13:09Shaan Puri?

  There's nothing to say. I don't know what to say. I I just haven't talked to you in a couple of weeks and your life turned upside down.

• 13:16Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it's fucking sucks. I I will tell you this, that like there's for the first part of me, and I bet this is what you felt but more when you had your daughter, which is like, everything you thought that was important, most of it isn't.

• 13:28Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 13:29Sam Parr?

  But then the second part of it was like, also, money is so important. Like, like being rich, you just are such, I mean, I'm not gonna place judgment on it. Like, I'm not gonna say capitalism is bad or not even anything like that. But I'm just saying that like having money in this system, it's way better. Shit's so expensive to like be healthy if when you're in need.

• 13:51Shaan Puri?

  Right. You know, the uh, there's two quotes I always liked about this. There's one that is, you know, a healthy man has a million desires. A sick man only has one. Which is basically to be healthy and it's so true. And then the, the other one I really liked, I heard from Naval, he was, I think it's like, I don't know Buddha or Confucius or something like that, which is that every person has two lives and the second one begins when they realize they only have one. And I just thought that was like super, super deep impactful. Like my buddy got diagnosed with cancer and like, he, I told him that quote, uh, cause there's, there's always, you know, a silver lining and any, you know, anything that happens. It just depends if you focus on that, if you, if you get that out of it. And so he went, he got tattooed on his forearm, the date, uh, the date that he got diagnosed.

• 14:34Shaan Puri?

  And he goes, that's the date my second life began. And, uh, he got excited about it and he was like, you know, I, this is, this is, this is my real birth date right here. And I thought, well,

• 14:42Sam Parr?

  So what's he do now? I mean, what's he feel like now?

• 14:45Shaan Puri?

  I don't know. I'm sure, you know, he's a real human. And so it's not like, oh, well now everything's great. It's like still he's like scared. So he beat the cancer. He's, he's still scared that it'll come back. Right? Like every time he has to go get these scans every six months or whatever. And when he goes back, like that's a shitty day and he's scared as shit. Like that, okay, the scan's gonna happen and they're gonna tell me, what are they gonna tell me? And so he's like nervous about it, but then he's also trying to like, you know, live it up and also not focus on, you know, random bullshit, not get caught in bullshit. Uh, because he remembers when like all bullshit was revealed to be bullshit, uh, when he, when he felt that. So I don't know. I don't know. He'd answer better than me, but that's what, that's the impression I've got from him.

• 15:24Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it's messed up. I mean, the worst thing I like, first of all, I'm not dying, but I'm just uncomfortable. But like the world, the thing that's worse after that is like actually dying. And then the thing that's even worse after that is your children dying, I imagine. So like, it definitely makes you realize that like, I'm not even dying and thank God I don't have children that are dying. But like, and I'm like super regretful over, I'm like, oh, fuck. None of this stuff matters.

• 15:48Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 15:48Sam Parr?

  And so, um, I don't know. It's been,

• 15:51Shaan Puri?

  I, I can't even hear a story about other kid, people who have kids who are sick. Like I just can't even, I can't even like listen to that story. It bothers me so much. Just the idea that a kid could be sick. And then I think about my daughter and I'm just like happy she's okay. And, but I, I'm, it's like so visceral to me now that I can't even hear another story. And I, I'm not squeamish. Like I wasn't squeamish like that at all. So that's definitely like a way that, I don't know, kids changed me like very dramatically.

• 16:18Sam Parr?

  What's crazy is that another thing that's important whenever I go to the hospital, because I used to have to go all the time with Kenny Jones is a good nurse is the most important part of the whole sickness.

• 16:29Shaan Puri?

  For sure. Most important part of a hospital is the nurse and the nurses. And there's such a variability between good and like that extra 10% where they're amazing and you just feel so good finally during that.

• 16:40Sam Parr?

  Right.

• 16:40Shaan Puri?

  And you like love when they come in on their shift and they erase the whiteboard and they write their name and it's like, yes, eight hours of like Wanda, Wanda's amazing. I can't wait for this.

• 16:49Sam Parr?

  A good nurse, it's just there's so much more because you don't ever see the doctor, fuck the doctor at the emergency room, but like a good nurse is life changing. And whenever I have a good nurse, I'm like, you provide value to the world. All I do is like, send this email. Like it makes me feel bad. I'm like, like, and I'm like, I probably make a lot more money than you. You are the hero.

• 17:11Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 17:11Sam Parr?

  You are the person that you should be rich. Um, I always feel whenever I have a good nurse, I'm like, you just changed my life.

• 17:17Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 17:17Sam Parr?

  So, uh.

• 17:18Shaan Puri?

  I also had this morning routine where I would take my dog for this walk and where I used to live in San Francisco, I think, I don't know if you've ever been to my house, but it's right next to that Zuckerberg hospital.

• 17:28Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 17:28Shaan Puri?

  And so I could see it. So I would go to the like where I'd be playing with my dog and I could see it. And every morning, basically I just like got this routine in my head that really helped me, which was, I don't know why, like I've had experiences like you where like you, if you spend any extended period of time in a hospital, it's like a very, I don't know, distinct feeling. And when you spend time in a hospital, like just the lighting, the smells, the like, just the humming of sounds, it's like so specific. And I can just imagine in my head. And so whenever I'm there and I could see the hospital, I'm, I just reminded myself like, as long as I'm not up there, today's a good day. Like I said, and I would, my mom would come visit, she'd come for the walk. I'd be like, mom, why is it a good day? Cause we're, and she's like, cause we're not up there. And like she knew because I just kept saying that to myself every day. So I made it where

• 18:13Shaan Puri?

  being happy was really cheap. As long as I'm not up there, I'm happy. Um, and then on the other side, I tried to make it where getting upset, I make it really expensive. Like I'm not going to get upset over anything small. Like you gotta pay me, it's gotta be a high ticket item to take my happiness away from me now. And those two things in my mentality really, I don't know, like changed the quality of my life, I feel, was just having that, that mindset every, every single day.

• 18:41Sam Parr?

  So that's very stoic of you. That's called negative. I'm trying to say, I can't say like the V words. Negative visuals, fuck, my mouth done, my lips aren't moving, but what's it say the word?

• 18:53Shaan Puri?

  Visualization.

• 18:55Sam Parr?

  Was it?

• 18:56Shaan Puri?

  Visualization.

• 18:57Sam Parr?

  So negative visualization and, and it's when, um, just go ahead and you assume that like your worst case scenario is true. So my kid's sick, my kid's dead, I'm about to die, my wife's about to die, whatever. You assume that all that is gonna happen and then you like meditate on it. You're like, this is true, this is true, this is true. You close your eyes for 10 minutes, you go, this is my life now, like I'm alone. And then you wake up and you go, oh my God, thank God, it's not true. And

• 19:23Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it's like waking up from a bad dream and you're relieved. You're like, yes, I didn't miss the test and you know,

• 19:29Sam Parr?

  Like I'm so thankful. Yeah. And that's actually a great trick that, um, I, I read about in a book, a stoic, a book on stoicism. It's called negative visualization and it's great for, um, like making you have gratitude, which apparently, I don't know if this is some woo woo shit, but do you know that like if you have gratitude, like if you regularly show, I mean, showing gratitude, I believe like it's actually like healthy for you, like it can be physically healthy.

• 19:56Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 19:57Sam Parr?

  Have you heard of this?

• 19:57Shaan Puri?

  I don't know about the, I don't know if any of this stuff's measurable, but, uh, the phrase I really liked was,

• 20:03Shaan Puri?

  you can't be, you can't be grateful and stressed at the same time. You can't be grateful and afraid at the same time. And, uh, it's like impossible, it's sort of like you can't sneeze and keep your eyes open. If you're truly feeling grateful, you're not going to be able to feel those other feelings, which those other feelings create either a shitty quality of life or literally, you know, your body reacts to stress in a negative way, puts you in a different, uh, you know, different hormones get released and whatnot. So I don't know how measurable any of this shit is, but you know, err on the side of being grateful, it won't do you any, any problems. Okay, let's take a minute and tell you a little bit about this week's sponsor lemon.io. Lemon is the perfect solution if you are a technical co-founder and maybe you just need to delegate some of the work because you've got too much on your plate.

• 20:45Shaan Puri?

  Or you're doing a project that needs a specific technology and you don't have that skill set in your team and you could either try to learn it and which will take months or hire somebody which will take six weeks to find somebody. You just want to have somebody, you know, yesterday, or you're just growing super fast and your company needs to add developers quick. Lemon.io is the perfect place to find vetted remote developers in Eastern Europe. They test and interview every developer, which eliminates the risk of a failed project. And there's a zero risk replacement guarantee. So they'll match you with somebody within 24 hours. And if it doesn't work out, it's on them. So go to go to lemon.io and if you want a 15% discount for your first six weeks of development. Any MFM fan, that's my first million fan can claim this 15% discount. Go to lemon.io/mfm.

• 21:27Shaan Puri?

  As in my first million. So lemon.io/mfm to claim the offer 15% discount for six weeks. That's not bad. That's a big chunk of change. They are much cheaper to use than hiring engineers with other outsourcing, even even more than other outsourcing platforms like TopTal and others. So check them out lemon.io. Back to this week's episode. Okay, let's, let's talk about some random business stuff. Otherwise people are going to just get pissed at us.

• 21:49Sam Parr?

  Wait, can I ask one thing? Yeah, really quick, which is you did four or five or six episodes without without me. Is there one or two that stuck out?

• 21:57Shaan Puri?

  I thought the Kat Cole one was good.

• 22:01Shaan Puri?

  It was a little bit more like an interview, but her story was pretty phenomenal. I didn't know it going in. So I knew that she was like the president of Focus Brands, which I knew owned Cinnabon and I'm just like a Cinnabon fan. So I was like, okay, cool. Say no more. But it was like Auntie Andy's pretzels and Slotzky's and McAllister, some other brands too. So I was like, okay, you're president CEO of that. That's pretty cool. But her story was pretty dope. She basically started as a Hooters waitress while she was in college. And then like was, you know, good as a waitress and like got into Hooters corporate as kind of like low level corporate. And then like worked her way up Hooters corporate and became eventually like head of Hooters America, like GM of Hooters America.

• 22:42Shaan Puri?

  And then like transitioned over as president of Cinnabon and then like went to the parent company of the company that owns Cinnabon and now is the president of that. And I was like, that's a pretty fucking baller path for somebody who came from kind of nothing, dropped out of college. While she was a Hooters waitress, like I just thought that was like an incredible story. And then she obviously had some good opinions on. Like ghost cloud kitchens, ghost kitchens. Like, is this a thing?

• 23:04Sam Parr?

  What did she say? I wasn't able to listen to it.

• 23:06Shaan Puri?

  She was basically like, um, she was like, it's a thing for sure in highly dense areas. And she's like, for our business, like a huge amount of their business comes from like malls and across America. You know what I mean? Like where you can't do ghost kitchens when you're not in a really, really dense place. You can do it in New York. You can do it in, you know, in San Francisco or LA. Cloud kitchens are awesome. They're kind of optimal in a way, right? Small square foot, not prime real estate, delivering into a really dense area. You can serve, you know, a huge number of customers in a small radius of delivery. But that's not going to work in, let's say, I don't know, you know, Sarasota, wherever the fuck Sarasota is, Florida, whatever that is, you know?

• 23:46Shaan Puri?

  Basically it's not going to work in the majority of places. So you can't like pin your hopes on that as the, you know, as the model. And so she was like down for it, but also not down for it at the same time.

• 23:57Sam Parr?

  Well, she just recognized that it's great, but not for everywhere.

• 24:00Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. And then she was talking a little bit about, okay, well, what are the future of restaurants look like? Cause they're like re-architecting some of their stores. And also she's kind of imagining like, okay, in an ideal world, how would, how would our whole footprint look after COVID? And she had some ideas around like, you know, basically how, how do you make it so that takeout and delivery is like kind of a core part of any restaurant? Not like this add-on thing. Uh, if you're going to be coming physically to a restaurant, what does the environment need to be for you to do that? Because now if delivery is a default, then why would you go into a restaurant? Well, it's got to be giving you more than just the food and a place to sit. Like

• 24:34Sam Parr?

  Which is good for Hooters.

• 24:35Shaan Puri?

  Right, right. It's got to have some kind of ambiance, as we would say.

• 24:39Sam Parr?

  I mean, they've, yeah, they've got that built in.

• 24:41Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. So

• 24:42Sam Parr?

  That and, uh, like Dave and Buster's shit like that. Yeah, I feel you.

• 24:45Shaan Puri?

  And then ironically, you know, she's president of pretzels and Cinnabon's, but she was very much like food is pharmacy. So she was like, we're going to look at food as like a health vector, um, and it's going to be personalized to you. So she had some ideas around that. So I thought that was, I thought that was all pretty interesting, uh, from her episode.

• 25:05Sam Parr?

  That's good. I enjoy hearing that.

• 25:09Shaan Puri?

  Sorry. The other one was from this guy who did, he's a CEO of Air Garage. And he listens to the podcast. He's like, this is my, I go for a walk. I listen to y'all's pod. And he's CEO of a startup and he came on, he gave me, he sent me a list of like 150 ideas. And I was like, okay, cool. You're qualified to come on the show. And he had one, he had two ideas around USPS, which I thought were interesting. He's like, look, USPS is kind of dying, but it's like, kind of important to America. So he had one, which was, there's these services that will do like, kind of like your change of address. Cause changing your address sucks. Mail forwarding sucks. So he's like, there's these services where like, they store your, they become your permanent address. And then you just tell them if you ever want to switch and it changed, they changed, everything still goes to them and they just reroute to you now.

• 25:52Shaan Puri?

  So you kind of have one easy online place to change it in five minutes. And then you pay 10 bucks a month to be able to do that or five bucks a month.

• 25:59Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I just signed up for one.

• 26:00Shaan Puri?

  So he was like, USPS, he's like, I want, he's like, somebody should build a business that just does this for USPS. They can make an additional like, he just did the math on like, how many customers they already have. And if they just marketed it within their, within their own service, like if they could get 5 million subscribers of this thing at $10 million, $10 a month, or $8 a month, or $7 a month, like that would be actually pretty significant revenue for USPS. And he's like, there's a no brainer. Like you should just build that and have one partner, which is USPS and just be the, be the brand that does this for them.

• 26:31Shaan Puri?

  Which is, I thought a funny, like all or nothing idea. And then another one, which was like, put cameras on the top of USPS and create a competitor to like Google Street View. Cause they're just driving around everywhere.

• 26:40Sam Parr?

  That's badass. Surely, surely Google has been like, hey.

• 26:45Shaan Puri?

  Y'all want to do this?

• 26:46Sam Parr?

  Come on. Come on. I wonder what the reasoning has been. I mean, I don't know, but surely they've been like, come on. I wonder, I wonder what they've said.

• 26:55Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 26:57Sam Parr?

  Did you um, this isn't like an idea, so I don't really want to spend too much time on it, but it is interesting. Did you see how Oracle bought TikTok?

• 27:04Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, well, I didn't know if it was done. Is it done now? I saw something yesterday that was like ByteDance refuses to give the algorithm to whoever the US buyer is. And it's like, well, then what are they gonna get?

• 27:15Sam Parr?

  I just thought it was interesting and then.

• 27:17Shaan Puri?

  Why the fuck does Oracle want TikTok? Like, what is the?

• 27:20Sam Parr?

  I have no idea. I don't understand these big businesses. I don't, do you even know what Oracle does? I don't even know what they do.

• 27:26Shaan Puri?

  It's like database software, basically.

• 27:28Sam Parr?

  Yeah, everyone says that and they always say like IT procurement or I'm like, dude, I don't, I like, I don't, or like human resource manager or um, they'll say like, uh, what do they say?

• 27:40Sam Parr?

  I forget what the, what the official phrasing is for Oracle. Whenever companies say that or people tell me, I'm like, I don't know what that means.

• 27:46Shaan Puri?

  Right. That's how I feel about SAP. I'm like SAP is what?

• 27:49Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 27:49Shaan Puri?

  What is SAP? It's a forty billion dollar company.

• 27:55Sam Parr?

  And they call, it's called like human capital management or something.

• 27:58Shaan Puri?

  ERP.

• 27:59Sam Parr?

  Yeah, what's that mean?

• 28:00Shaan Puri?

  I think it's enterprise resource planning or something like that.

• 28:03Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I just don't know what that means.

• 28:03Shaan Puri?

  I might be totally wrong. ERP might be like, you know, eggs, you know, rover.

• 28:09Sam Parr?

  No, that's what it means. That's what it means. Yeah, that's it. I just don't know what it means. Um, so that's interesting. And also, do you have, have you been making any money in the stock market?

• 28:19Shaan Puri?

  Uh, yeah, except for, I mean, there was like a week where it was like pretty bloody, but yeah, I made a, made a killing over the last few months.

• 28:25Sam Parr?

  Dude, I've been, um, I don't, I'm like not, and I don't own any individual stocks other than Facebook and I don't buy any, like I haven't bought a stock in like, you know, two years. Uh, it's all automated.

• 28:35Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 28:36Sam Parr?

  Um, I almost regret it.

• 28:38Shaan Puri?

  Not buying more, you mean?

• 28:41Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I, I'm seeing all those, these numbers and I'm like, oh my God, this is crazy. I have hardcore FOMO.

• 28:47Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I feel that way too. And then I'm like, uh, this is gambling. Okay, let me just move on to with my life to something that is more meaningful to me or that I control a little bit more. But yeah, I have like Amazon.

• 28:59Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I see these numbers.

• 29:00Shaan Puri?

  Zoom and Fastly and Facebook. Uh, I think that's like my core individual stocks that I own.

• 29:07Sam Parr?

  I pretty much only own Facebook and S and P 500.

• 29:10Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 29:11Sam Parr?

  Um, and then like the $500 in referral stocks that I got from Robin Hood for like, so which is like Sirius Radio or something.

• 29:20Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 29:21Sam Parr?

  Um, all right. Well, what ideas you got?

• 29:24Shaan Puri?

  Um.

• 29:25Sam Parr?

  Cause it sounds like you, you came prepared.

• 29:27Shaan Puri?

  Well, not really, uh, actually, but I do have a couple of interesting things. So have you heard of this business called Say We? I don't know how, that's how you pronounce it. So it's S A, S A Y, W E E.

• 29:39Sam Parr?

  S A Y.

• 29:40Shaan Puri?

  E. It's like, there's like three or four Es at the end of it. It is a Asian grocery delivery company. And so like, if you look in the Google Play Store, it's just we with exclamation point. And it says shop Asian groceries and get it delivered. So I'd seen these guys a couple of times through like friends who are Asian who are like, oh yeah. Like when, when COVID was happening and like you couldn't get an Instacart delivery or whatever. Uh, it's like, oh yeah, well like thank goodness for say we, we still got like all of our goods. So like, you know how, actually I don't know if you know this, but like, like I'm Indian, there's Indian grocery stores that exist. You probably actually have never seen an Indian grocery store, but basically within like, you know, these little random shopping centers, there'll be a small little store that just is for, let's say brown people to go and you can get like the spices, the certain type of rice that brown people like.

• 30:24Shaan Puri?

  Like we like basmati rice. We want spices to make Indian food. And then we want like sweets that are desserts that are Indian desserts or whatever. And so like my mom or whatever will go shop at these places. And so the same thing exists for, you know, um, more like East Asian or Oriental, uh, cuisine where you'll get like, you know, different types of food that is more, more like, you know, more of the motherland than what you're going to get at Safeway or Kroger's or whatever. And so these guys crush it. They've raised $82 million. So at first I was like, oh, this is interesting. Like this is a potential investment. And I go, look, and it's already, you know, they have 200 people at the company. It's a.

• 30:59Sam Parr?

  Where'd you find it?

• 31:00Shaan Puri?

  Um, I just had friends talking about it. Um, I'm like, I'm in, uh, I forgot who, I think Kevin Lee was the first person who ever mentioned it. And then, uh, this guy, Josh Elman, who's, uh, I think he's married to, as his wife's Asian. And so I think they order it or whatever. So I'd seen a couple of people mentioning it and I was like, what's the deal with this? And, uh, And so, yeah, it's a pretty interesting company. I thought, what an interesting niche of grocery delivery that is actually pretty massive, right? If they've raised $82 million, you know, they have to be valued in the hundreds of millions of dollars and they only have a few locations. It's like Bay Area, Seattle, you know, LA, and just serving a few areas to build such a big business. And I think very differentiated from the normal like grocery

• 31:45Shaan Puri?

  wars that everybody's fighting and bleeding in.

• 31:49Sam Parr?

  Yeah. So, whoa, this can't be true, can it? It said, so here's an article on them.

• 31:57Sam Parr?

  Here's an article where the founder said in 2019, or all right, so 18 revenue, 2018 revenue was 16 million, 2019, they said they expected 40 million, and then they seven extra revenue from, from the expected 40 to, what's seven times 40?

• 32:14Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, like 280.

• 32:16Sam Parr?

  Holy shit. So they're growing like crazy. Pretty interesting. Never would have thought that this would be a thing. I'm just looking up the founder. He used to work at a company called Brocade.

• 32:27Shaan Puri?

  Don't know what that is?

• 32:29Sam Parr?

  No, what Brocade? You worked at Brocade? Interesting. I never, ever, ever would have thought that would work.

• 32:36Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, same. That's why I brought it up because I was like, this is a surprise to me.

• 32:41Sam Parr?

  Remember when your buddy told you about halal?

• 32:44Shaan Puri?

  Yes.

• 32:45Sam Parr?

  What was it called? Halal loans? Is halal like the?

• 32:47Shaan Puri?

  Halal financing.

• 32:49Sam Parr?

  Yeah. So, and I guess halal is like the, is halal like the equivalent of saying kosher but for Muslim?

• 32:54Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it just means like sort of this is like blessed by the, you know, the religious community. This is in line with the religious code. So whether it's halal meat or it's halal financing, it's, this is in line with our, our morals and values.

• 33:08Sam Parr?

  Whenever your buddy just talked about that, I was like, oh, I'm on board with just anything that like non Muslims do or eat or drink or whatever. And then just put halal in front of it.

• 33:18Shaan Puri?

  Right. I saw this little business, our friend Ramon sent me this little business that was e-commerce business for sale. And what it was, was Small ecommerce business, you could probably buy it for like 200 grand, I think. It was doing like 100 grand in, uh, like 70 grand at EBITDA or something like that. And all it was, was baby mobiles. So you know, like above your crib, you have a little rotating uh, mobile that like is usually like stars and unicorns and whatever like. And they just made the Muslim version of that. So it was all of the like, kind of like symbols. Um, and or like, kind of, I don't know, like, uh, whatever the religious figurehoods are and religious symbols are. And it would play, uh, religious music rather than like whatever twinkle, twinkle little star.

• 34:00Shaan Puri?

  And, um, it's like such a small niche, worst fucking website you can imagine. It was like just an awful ecommerce look. Awful brand, s- sold one SKU and was doing like, you know, pretty good revenue. It was like, I forgot it was. I thi- I think it might've been 200 grand at EBITDA or something like that. Uh, at the end of the day, but I was like, this is like such a healthy little business. That is such a specific niche, serving a large community that's underserved and like, you got a billion Muslim people in the world and, um, I don't feel like there's enough of, you know, we talked about, you know, sort of call them for religion and how I would start that with the, you know, the Islamic faith app. Uh, I just feel like there's so much more you could do for, for, you know, niche populations and, and

• 34:45Shaan Puri?

  whether it's dating apps that are targeted towards certain religions or certain ethnicities. In this case, grocery delivery for certain ethnic foods. Uh, I just feel like you could take popular category and niche it down into a certain ethnography and do well.

• 34:59Sam Parr?

  So I, I just, I can't get over the fact about how I'd never would have thought that this, this, well, what, how do you say it?

• 35:06Shaan Puri?

  Say we.

• 35:07Sam Parr?

  Say we. I can't believe that. You know, it was crazy. I went to the, I went to the website and it's, they had to translate it for me.

• 35:16Shaan Puri?

  Did they? Oh, my, my mind's already translated.

• 35:19Sam Parr?

  Like, cause your URL is say we dot.

• 35:22Shaan Puri?

  Com slash.

• 35:23Sam Parr?

  Com slash. Yeah. So like, it's like, they're really going after the.

• 35:28Shaan Puri?

  And look at this, they're serving, they're serving four markets and then they just opened up three more. So seven cities and they're doing, you know, according to that, like north of, north of 200 million dollars in revenue. Now, I don't know if they're counting revenue as like every item sold and they have like 5% margin. But like, yeah, okay, let's say that, that is the case. They're, they're doing, you know, 10% margin on, on that. Uh, still not bad.

• 35:53Sam Parr?

  So let me tell you about another grocer that's interesting. So I was, this sounds like I'm just being bougie, but I was staying at someone's house and I was walking around the Hamptons. And there's this billionaire guy that I've read about. His name's John Catmeadonis. Have you heard of him?

• 36:10Shaan Puri?

  Never.

• 36:11Sam Parr?

  Okay, he's easy to recognize because like, if this ever gets to him, I'll just tell him to his face, but he's super ugly. Like, he's so ugly. Like, Google him. He's like fat and ugly.

• 36:21Shaan Puri?

  John Cat? How do you spell it?

• 36:25Sam Parr?

  Last name is, it's the word cat and then S I and it'll auto fill.

• 36:29Shaan Puri?

  Okay, gotcha. Right.

• 36:31Sam Parr?

  You see him?

• 36:31Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, well, is this his wife with him? Who is this?

• 36:34Sam Parr?

  His daughter. That's his hot daughter. But like, look at him. Like, he's just like a big ol', like, like cootie. Like, he's just an ugly dude. Yeah, whatever. Who cares? It doesn't matter. I mean, look at me. I don't even have, my face doesn't even work. So, um, he's just a big ol' bug. And, um, so what this guy did was, when he was only 21, he started this grocery store in New York City called Red Apple. And then, using money from Red Apple, he like, he like, made it crazy profitable. Like, 30 million in sales with like, 5 million in profit. And here, it says, "I built it up to 10 stores and was doing $25 million and I was personally earning a million

• 37:15Sam Parr?

  dollar, um, personally earning a million dollars a year." So 25 million in sales, and he was paying himself a million dollars. And this is in 1978 or something. Then, when, uh, the, the company had like, uh, 100 million in sales for a grocery store, he bought this other chain. Then, after he bought the other chain, he, um, started an oil and gas company. Then, he started an airline business that he sold to NetJets or, uh, whatever the big guy is. So this, and now, he, um, still owns, the holding company is called Apple, Red Apple, Inc. or whatever. And they own grocery stores, they own radio stations, they own this oil company, they own everything. And I'm almost positive through all my

• 37:57Sam Parr?

  research that he owns 100% of it. And I saw interviews with him. Seems like a great guy. Guy, he is trying to run for mayor in New York, worth three, four billion dollars, just crazy fascinating guy. And so fascinating because he said something, he was like, man, if I worked in technology, I'd be the richest man in the world, but I chose a low margin business, but I still crushed it. Just super fascinating. Uh, I think he's an immigrant or at least his mom and, yeah, he's an immigrant. Just that hardcore hustle, just freaking awesome. Love learning about these people instead of the typical tech folks.

• 38:31Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, that's, that's interesting. So you, uh, you said you bumped into this guy or what happened?

• 38:36Sam Parr?

  I, I knew what he looked like because he's so easy to remember. And I think out in New York, uh, he's like a celebrity because he like said he was running for mayor. So like everyone knows who he is. But, uh, you know, I don't, I've never heard of this Red Apple grocery store. So I don't know what it is. Um, I seen him walking down the street and I just was like, I'm going to bring that up for our Billy of the day.

• 38:54Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I like that. Uh, I like that. Just the, I, I, you, I sort of glazed over after you called him so ugly. I just couldn't stop laughing in my head and I only heard half the rest of the story.

• 39:07Sam Parr?

  He, he also got, got in the news because he's got like a really beautiful daughter and he like apparently used, he built some app to like, spy on his daughter's boyfriend and do like background checks on him and people like called him out because that was creepy.

• 39:22Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 39:22Sam Parr?

  But, uh,

• 39:23Shaan Puri?

  Clearview AI. Yeah. That's what I was reading this article just now. Uh, because he's like, I, I have infrared, uh, you know, infrared sensors in my home in the Hamptons. I sleep with, with the same gun James Bond carried under his pillow. And I use Clearview AI to stalk my daughter's boyfriend or date or whatever. What a character.

• 39:43Sam Parr?

  Yeah. So that, that shit's weird, but other than that, this guy's so fascinating and interesting to me. Just, uh, I love these types. I love, they, they just seem like the everyday man.

• 39:54Shaan Puri?

  Okay, sounds good. What other, I don't know, have you even thought about business ideas? Or have you been, you know, thinking about that at all?

• 40:02Sam Parr?

  No, I basically did not think about that at all.

• 40:05Shaan Puri?

  That's okay.

• 40:06Sam Parr?

  I'm, I'm, I'm back on it, but I, I have not thought about that at all. Is there anything that you wanna?

• 40:11Shaan Puri?

  So I've been thinking about it a lot because, uh, so, so we successfully raised this fund to invest in startups. I've been doing a bunch of pitch meetings and each one is like super fascinating.

• 40:20Sam Parr?

  What, what's the total amount?

• 40:23Shaan Puri?

  Uh, two and a half million a year.

• 40:26Sam Parr?

  And was that, so I'm going through that process too, though I might put it on hold. For obvious reasons, but, uh, was it, is it going to be good or not good?

• 40:38Shaan Puri?

  Um, well, it's gonna be good. It's just a question of like, it's work, right? So like all of a sudden, you know, I spend a lot more time looking at different companies and doing pitch meetings. Whereas before it was kind of as I went, if I'd meet a great entrepreneur, I would chat with them and informally do it. I wasn't, but I basically, I need to deploy five times more capital than I was doing as my own personal investing. So then I need to up my volume of, of deals and sourcing as well, but it's fun. Uh, cause you know, sitting with an entrepreneur and hearing their vision of, you know, what the future looks like. And some problem that you didn't even know exists like today, I'll give you an example. Just before this call, I talked to this guy, this guy's been doing like climate, like clean tech companies in Africa

• 41:22Shaan Puri?

  for the last like X number of years. And so right now he's going after this thing. I'll, I'll check with him if I'm even okay to say all this, but I think so. He's basically created, I guess, let me put it differently. There's this big problem that I had no idea about, which is that if you go to Africa, if you go to Kenya, um, and we're not talking about like mud huts, like we're talking about in a condominium building, in a high-rise building. You own an apartment, you live in that apartment and you need to cook meals every day. They don't have like gas stoves, like there's into the building, there's no gas pipe. So where we go and we turn on our electric stove and you know, fire comes out, they don't have that. So what most people do all the way from mud huts into condos is they use charcoal or kerosene,

• 42:03Shaan Puri?

  uh, or some like really dirty, kind of like, uh, dirty fuel source essentially, but it's, you know, relatively cheap. And it's really all they got. So they need to cook, you know, boil water, they need to cook rice and they need to make, make meat and whatever else they're gonna do. And so. People have been cooking like that for, for, you know, decades in, in these countries. And so what they're replacing it with is a, a clean stove that uses wood pellets rather than charcoal. And so like you can't, you could, you've always been able to cook with this. And it's sort of like, you know, if we go camping, you know, we could use, we use one of these little small, you know, stove tops. And so he's trying to replace it. And so what the net result is, you have something that is, you know, 98% cleaner for the environment.

• 42:48Shaan Puri?

  And also like even your own clothes, like forget the, forget, if you don't care about global warming. Most people don't want their, their home to just be full of like dark smoke that's just getting into your clothes. And like, you know, you smell like smoke for the next three days, but that's just life there. And so it's 98% cleaner. It costs half as much to be able to, to do, and it cooks in half the time. And so you get this like a better experience all around. And so, and they're doing the kind of Nest Cafe model where they give you the machine for free. And then they sell you the fuel on every month. Cause you're going to, you're always going to buy, you know, cooking, cooking fuel every single month. Cause you need to cook. And so a pretty interesting business, pretty interesting problem that they're solving. And, you know, that's the type of fun I get to have now. So I would say the fund is good because I get to see this type of stuff.

• 43:33Sam Parr?

  Do you think that it's going to be a, I mean, a two and a half million dollar fund, unless it's like one of the best funds out there, which it could definitely become. It probably won't be a needle mover in terms of personal wealth creation. Is that correct or am I wrong?

• 43:48Shaan Puri?

  That's correct, but it's, remember it's two and a half million per year. So when most people raise a fund, they raise, let's say a $10 million fund. They deploy that, the fund takes 10 years to return, but they deploy it over, let's say three years. And so that's actually a $3 million a year fund. So this is the, this is the equivalent of call it a seven to $10 million total fund. And so then you say seven to $10 million total dollars. The math works out where let's say we do very well and we four, four X the, the fund grows. So we, we turn, let's say $7 million into $28 million of gross returns. And then of those $28 million, I get a 20% carry on that. So I get 20% of 28 million.

• 44:32Shaan Puri?

  So four or five million bucks.

• 44:34Sam Parr?

  Over.

• 44:35Shaan Puri?

  But it's over a seven to 10 year period.

• 44:38Sam Parr?

  So then you think that potentially this is going to be a.

• 44:40Shaan Puri?

  It's not gonna be a needle. I hope that in seven to 10 years, $4 million is not a needle mover. That's my goal with all my other businesses.

• 44:48Sam Parr?

  Well, do you think that you're just gonna raise more and more money?

• 44:52Shaan Puri?

  I don't know. I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna see. Maybe I hate this and maybe after a year I tell everybody, okay, I'm not, you know, that money's deployed. Great. And for next year, I don't want any more money, right? Like, I don't want to do this anymore. But I think what's gonna happen is there's, I sort of view this as, for me, financially, it should be good, but it's not gonna be like, oh, my fucking god. This is how I, you know, build my, my kingdom type of thing. But I just like sitting front row for like, people doing cool shit. And this is an excuse to, this is, this is season tickets to sit in front row, right? I'm gonna get to see a bunch of entrepreneurs. So are my investors, right? I'm gonna share all my updates with them and they're gonna get to see what are the companies we invested in, why, why not? And how those companies are growing, kind of in the private confidential side of things.

• 45:37Shaan Puri?

  And so I think it's gonna be, I think on a fun level, it's gonna be a game changer for fun. And on a wealth level, I, I hope that in seven to 10 years, making four or five million bucks will not be a game changer.

• 45:50Sam Parr?

  Yeah, so we're in the, we're, we've been in the process of doing this for a while, like you were, and obviously I, three weeks ago, I was like, hey, let me talk to you in a little bit. And so I guess we'll go through with it, but uh,

• 46:06Sam Parr?

  you see, from an outside perspective, it definitely looks easy, but then you like get into it and you're like, this is gonna be a lot of work. It's gonna be a lot of work, like being an investor, just like all things, once you get past that, like, like, for example, my company, The Hustle, like, I worked really hard, but I definitely worked harder to get it off the ground. And so it's like, one, once you, once you get past that point, then it's like, yeah, this is a good life. But in the early stages, like, oh, this is, I'm just, you're just starting a business from scratch again.

• 46:34Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, yeah, totally. I, I think if you're doing it to make money, there's much better ways to make money as a fund, if you're the manager of the fund. If you're an investor, cool, you're putting a small amount of money into like a higher risk asset class and you're not going to do any of the work. So it's great. But if you're the fund manager, there's way better ways to make money than doing this. And so that's where that's the position that you're in or I'm in. And so you gotta, I think if you're gonna do it, if you're a fund manager, you need the fund to be a $50 million or greater fund for it to be good for finance, financially, personally. And then if not, you're doing it for the sort of enjoyment because you are just sort of down with the startup ecosystem. And this is what you would, this is a hobby.

• 47:17Sam Parr?

  Well, even if you did it, even if you did a $50 million fund, what a lot of people realize is like, oh, you have $50 million fund. Great. You better not be hiring anyone, but maybe one person.

• 47:25Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. So like on a $50 million fund, you're going to be taking your 2% management fee. So I took 0% management fees. So again, because I'm not doing this as a way to for me to personally make money every year on fees. But, you know, for a 2%, 2% fees, you'd be getting a million bucks a year for all your overhead, your legal costs, your fund administration, your employees, your whatever, marketing. And so if you have two partners, that's like, let's say 500K each. That's, that's no joke. That's not, that's not something to sort of sneeze at. But typically, somebody who's able to raise a $50 million fund is earning more than that already in their current job or business.

• 48:06Sam Parr?

  Or has.

• 48:06Shaan Puri?

  Or has earned more than that. And so they, you know, they're not doing it for the 500K a year of fees, net of expenses.

• 48:15Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it's, it's definitely a fascinating exercise to look at all this stuff. I've definitely enjoyed it, though. We'll see if we do it. But it's, it's, I'm, I'm happy you were able to do that. We did, all the money pretty much came from your Twitter.

• 48:29Shaan Puri?

  Um, yes and no. Yeah. So half of it, basically, like, let's say 60% of it, I think, came from Twitter. And then the other 40% came through kind of like hustle. Like basically reaching out and doing different, doing different sort of marketing and sales techniques to try to get people through the door and get them to close.

• 48:48Sam Parr?

  Good. Well, congratulations.

• 48:50Shaan Puri?

  Rolling fund is just pay as you go. And before. You know, let's say I wanted to go raise a $10 million fund. There would be a specific time that I would open the funding window. I'd say, okay, I'm going to go for six months. I'm going to go talk to a bunch of rich people. I'm going to try to raise this money and I would have to raise my full amount then. Sometimes you do like a first and second tranche, but like for the most part, you're going to go and you're going to raise a bunch of money upfront and then you're going to spend the next few years investing it. A rolling fund is different. A rolling fund I could start today, every quarter is basically like a new little fund. Every quarter I can take on new investors. Investors who are in my current fund can go up if they want and they could take a double down. They could invest more or they could stop and they could say, I don't want to invest anymore after, after four quarters.

• 49:33Shaan Puri?

  So it's just more lightweight, more flexible for the investor side. On the investor side, you, you just pay quarterly. So like my minimum is $6,000 per quarter. So people can pay 6,000, 6,000, 6,000. Over the course of the year, they invest 25K, but not in a giant check at once.

• 49:52Shaan Puri?

  And then for me as the fund manager, I don't have to take six months, 12 months to go raise my fund. I just start raising it and start deploying it and it can keep growing over time. Like next year, my fund could be twice the size if I wanted to. If I wanted to keep taking more money in, I could double the size of my fund. You don't get that type of flexibility with a traditional fund. A fund is sort of set in, in how much you raise and who owns what. So Angel List, basically the fund runs on Angel List. They take an administration fee and they built the, the software. So the way they're actually doing it, it's nothing in the law changed. What they changed was they just automated it so that every quarter they're actually spinning up a separate entity. That's going to be a 10 year fund for what's called a Q4 2020, let's say.

• 50:36Shaan Puri?

  And then when the next quarter happens, they're actually automatically under the hood. They're creating another entity with that, with that quarter's investor batch. And so normally if you went to a law firm and you said, hey, every quarter I'd like to create a new fund. I want to manage that fund for 10 years and it's going to have different investors in every quarter. They'd be like, what the fuck are you thinking? Like this is going to be, you know, really taxing legally and really complicated to keep track of. But Angel List did it with software and automated that process.

• 51:02Sam Parr?

  What else? Do we want to go over anything else or we want to end this at 53 minutes?

• 51:05Shaan Puri?

  Hmm, let me scroll through our list.

• 51:08Sam Parr?

  We're going to have to build this list out.

• 51:10Shaan Puri?

  I had two I wanted to do today. I forgot the other one. Cool. All right. I don't remember what my other one was. We have to go back and start filling this out again. Now that you're back, we get back in rhythm. So we'll call it here.

• 51:20Sam Parr?

  Yes. And thank you, everyone, for all the kind wishes. I got like literally a thousand DMs. I appreciate it. I don't know if I'll reply to everyone, but thank you. And we will see you next, well, in two days.

• 51:30Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. All right, Sam, welcome back. Good to have you back.

• 51:33Sam Parr?

  All right, I'll see you.

• 51:34Shaan Puri?

  See ya.