7 People Making $5M-$10M From Weird Hobbies

Want to start your own million dollar business with less than $1k? Get the guide: https://clickhubspot.com/wbk Episode 742: Sam Parr ( https://x.com/theSamParr ) talks to Billy Parks ( https://x.com/billyfilm ) about 7 creators making $5M to $10M from niche content with small audiences. Billy is a partner at Slow Ventures where he invests in creator-built businesses. — Show Notes: (0:00) The creator middle class (6:53) Jonathan Katz-Moses (15:24) Mary Heffernan (23:03) Jocko Willink (29:01) Detail Geek (35:10) Tony Seno (46:15) Niches to go after (58:17) Under the radar creators — Links: • Jonathan Katz-Moses - https://www.youtube.com/@katzmosestools/videos • Mary Heffernan - https://fivemarys.com/marys-story • Jocko Willink - https://www.youtube.com/@JockoPodcastOfficial • Tonester - https://www.youtube.com/@tonesterpaints • T. Rex Arms - https://www.trex-arms.com/ — Check Out Shaan's Stuff: • Shaan's weekly email - https://www.shaanpuri.com • Visit https://www.somewhere.com/mfm to hire worldwide talent like Shaan and get $500 off for being an MFM listener. Hire developers, assistants, marketing pros, sales teams and more for 80% less than US equivalents. • Mercury - Need a bank for your company? Go check out Mercury (mercury.com). Shaan uses it for all of his companies! Mercury is a financial technology company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group, Column, N. A., and Evolve Bank & Trust, Members FDIC — Check Out Sam's Stuff: • Hampton - https://www.joinhampton.com/ • Ideation Bootcamp - https://www.ideationbootcamp.co/ • Copy That - https://copythat.com • Hampton Wealth Survey - https://joinhampton.com/wealth • Sam’s List - http://samslist.co/ My First Million is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by HubSpot Media // Production by Arie Desormeaux // Editing by Ezra Bakker Trupiano

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sam Parr?

  I'm not saying like I'm above this.

• 0:01Speaker 01

  No one's above this. This is cool.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  These guys just sold $7 million in multi-tools in like a week.

• 0:17Sam Parr?

  So in order for a creator business to work, the creator needs to be loved. What makes a creator lovable? Like what attributes do they have where you see it and you're like that person has it? And people will buy because of them.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Finding creators that have like real love from their communities is the is the whole thing, right? Cause those are the most durable audiences that will kind of go. It makes them not cancelable. It they people feel like they are their buddies, their friends. So I think like what makes them loved is you feel like you're watching a version of yourself doing it. You know, when you're if you're a woodworker and you watch Jonathan Katz Moses, you're like, oh, this guy's just like me and he's teaching me, I'm learning. And it's like a buddy who's walking me into my favorite hobby, my favorite niche.

• 1:08Sam Parr?

  So that's be relatable.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  I think so. Relatable is a good way to put it. I think, you know, often feels like your big sister or your big brother too, where you're like, okay, they're teaching me, you know, like, you like motorcycles, right? Like they're a pain in the ass to like maintain, to deal with, to find the right routes, to find the right routes on road, to find the right routes off road. But I got three or four guys that I can call and say, hey, I'm going to the Pacific Northwest. Where do I go? What do I need to pack? Like, what am I missing? Like, walk me through that trip you took? And they give me the tools that I need to kind of get where I want to go. And I feel like those creators are the most interesting that can build durable businesses.

• 1:46Sam Parr?

  And now you're a partner at Slow, is that right?

• 1:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm a venture partner at Slow. I've been here for about a year and before that I was at the Churning Group.

• 1:53Sam Parr?

  Man, Churnin, I've hung out with those guys a bit. They um

• 1:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:57Sam Parr?

  They're they're

• 1:57Speaker 01

  I saw your I saw your podcast with Kevin, which was great.

• 2:00Sam Parr?

  Yeah, we've had Kevin on. I'm friends with Doug Demoro.

• 2:04Speaker 01

  Doug, I found that. I found that.

• 2:05Sam Parr?

  That was you?

• 2:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

• 2:07Sam Parr?

  Your guys' insight, back in like 14, 15 and 16, which it seems so obvious now, it was like, we're gonna take creators and we're gonna make them into billion dollar companies. And like, obviously, we know Mr. Beast does that now. But what a lot of people don't realize is that Churnin was early on this, for one. And number two, they've had so many successes that are niche communities. So for example, there's the uh, what's the meat guy?

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Meat eater. That's Steve Vernella.

• 2:34Sam Parr?

  Yeah, Meat Eater. And then there was like probably eight or nine or 10 more. We had Kevin on from uh, uh, Epic Gardening. Uh, and so like, you've built these like really big businesses. And that's what we're gonna talk about today, particularly the creator middle class, because there's like

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:50Sam Parr?

  There's like these, the Mr. Beast's of the world, but there's so many people out there that are making 10, 20, 50 million dollars a year, and they have like 800 or 400,000 followers in a very niche community, like meat smoking, or something like that.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:06Sam Parr?

  One of my favorite creators is Doug Demoro. Doug Demoro does these car reviews. He turned it into Cars and Bids, which I have no idea how big they are, but I think it's a quite a large business.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  I'll tell you, since Doug started, he sold about 450 million dollars worth of vehicles. And then he takes a take rate off that.

• 3:23Sam Parr?

  Oh, my God. So this guy Doug does these like, reviews where he will review an SUV or like a $2 million Ferrari.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Anything that's an enthusiast car.

• 3:34Sam Parr?

  Yes. And what's interesting about Doug is, I don't know how he did it, but I have a feeling it was just him, probably actually not even with an iPhone when he first started, literally like a camcorder, like a traditional one.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 3:46Sam Parr?

  And He looks schlappy, like he has like a dirty T-shirt that that usually-

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Often two T-shirts on top of each other.

• 3:55Sam Parr?

  That fit horribly together. So like his undershirt is popping out from his-

• 3:59Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 4:00Sam Parr?

  Usually wearing cargo shorts without a belt. So it like it's-

• 4:03Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 4:03Sam Parr?

  They're like falling down and he wears high white socks and like, he's just kind of a, I don't know how, I don't know like what what category is, but like someone-

• 4:12Speaker 01

  He's like a car nerd. He's a car nerd.

• 4:14Sam Parr?

  Yeah, but even amongst car nerds, many of them are more like, uh, they dress affluent because they want to fit in. He does not care about that at all. And he gives these amazing reviews. And so one, that's the relatable thing. But then you have these on this, on the other end, you have like the Emma Chamberlain, where young women, I think aspire to be her because she is cool and has character and all that stuff. Is there something in there about a creator of like wanting to be aspirational versus quirky?

• 4:44Speaker 01

  I think it depends on the audience, right? Like Doug's audience loves him because he has the best information about every car, like, like his videos that are 10 minutes, eight minutes, 12 minutes long, top to front. Everything you want to know about that car, which is generally like a couple of things, like what do I want to drive? What do I think is cool? And sometimes it's purchase decision, right? So Doug gives you everything you need to kind of learn about that rig. And he's like totally unassuming and fun. I'm not as familiar with Emma. I know she's like very loved. But yeah, aspirational, um, you want to be her when you grow up? You think she's cool? You love her access? You like her take on things?

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Um, I think for the enthusiast categories, I think those pop the hardest, which is to say, Doug is driving a two-sided marketplace that has real scale, um, and can scale without having to put goo in a bottles or get distribution from stores or launch a physical location. He is like building like a venture scale business. And a lot of people who come to Cars and Biz Now didn't even know who Doug was. It's built the scale where they're just like, oh, this is like, this is a great place to transact. I don't even, I didn't even get here through the top of funnel from Doug.

• 6:02Sam Parr?

  All right. So a lot of people will talk about how you need a million dollars and three years of experience to start a business. Nonsense. If you've listened to at least one episode on this podcast, you know that is completely not true. My last company, The Hustle, we grew it to something like 17 or 18 million dollars in revenue. I started it with like $300. My current company Hampton does over 10 million in revenue, started it with actually no money, maybe $29 or something like that, nothing. And so you don't actually need investors to start a company. You don't need a fancy business plan, but what you do need is systems that actually work. And so my old company, The Hustle, they put together five proven business models that you could start right now, today with under a thousand dollars. These are models

• 6:46Sam Parr?

  that if you do it correctly, it can make money this week. You can get it right now. You can scan the QR code or click the link in the description. Now, back to the show.

• 6:57Sam Parr?

  So can I ask you about some of these middle-class creators? Because this is pretty interesting.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 7:01Sam Parr?

  You mentioned one of them and I looked him up. This guy's insane. Who's Jonathan Katz Moses?

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Jonathan Katz Moses. So Jonathan Katz Moses is a woodworker. He started a website called KM Tools. It's tips and tricks on the right tool for the right job, essentially. And then he was like, oh, well, here's this tool you can use to work with this buzzsaw. And here's this tool you can use to work with that. And then, sold out, sold out, sold out, and then kept developing his own tools.

• 7:29Sam Parr?

  Let me tell you what I see when I go to his YouTube page, because it's pretty incredible. So he just looks like a just guy. He's just doing woodworking stuff. But what's crazy is-

• 7:37Speaker 01

  He's just a guy.

• 7:37Sam Parr?

  He only has, I mean, and this is like big, but this is like, you know, pretty girl next door, like attainable. He only has 600,000 subscribers.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 7:47Sam Parr?

  Which I think almost anyone dedicates four years to virtually any niche, and they spend 20 hours a week on it. I think they can get to 600,000 subscribers. So he only has 600,000 subscribers. And each of, and he only is outputting like one video a month, like not even a lot of, not even a lot of videos. And they, and they look great. They look like really highly-produced videos. They're not like, they're, they're, they're polished. But his, his quantity is not through the roof. And the views aren't even through the roof.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  No. Well, the cool thing about it is it's, it's, first of all, it's evergreen content. So like- What he did, like how often he publish is important to kind of continue to to provide content for the community and build his audience and get to scale. And I think like taking investment, he will be able to do more of that.

• 8:35Sam Parr?

  He raised money?

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's slow. We invested two million into Jonathan's business.

• 8:40Sam Parr?

  And how big is it now?

• 8:41Speaker 01

  The investment is very recent. He's doing around six million in revenue now from like strictly from his tool site. And he's grown substantially year over year.

• 8:54Sam Parr?

  And when you made the investment, what was your upside? Like, what did you, what do you expect in five years? How big of a business will this be?

• 9:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, we play a little longer than five years because we're early stage. So, you know, I think.

• 9:09Sam Parr?

  Whatever. I don't know.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, we'd love to see Jonathan get to 100, 200 million dollars in revenue in the next 10 years.

• 9:15Sam Parr?

  That's crazy.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:17Sam Parr?

  Is he gonna enjoy his life while he's doing that? Because it looks like you had a pretty good life before taking your money.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  He, he loves, he wants to build a massive business. I mean, we're not reaching out to creators and saying, hey, you look like you have a really nice lifestyle business making 10 million bucks a year. Do you want to go to 100? Like, we're, he reached out to us. You know, he's like, I want to build a business of scale. You know, he, he needs more inventory. He needs more product designers. He sells out all the time. So, he wants to get to scale. Like, he loves what he's doing.

• 9:48Sam Parr?

  This is a great one. And what's, when you're, when you're, when you're doing research, like if you're this guy Jonathan or someone listening, and you have like a, like woodworking is a niche, huge niche, but niche nonetheless. Is there like math between how you decide how big it can get? Or do you just look at like comparables? Are you like, well, there's this one woodworking e-comm store that already does this much revenue. I think it can be that big.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  That's a good question. I think it's a little bit of both, where we say. Team and theme, right? So it's like, can we invest in, is Jonathan backable? Does he have the hunger? Is he a founder or is he just a content creator? And then, does he have the hunger to build something big? So it's early stage, we're betting on Jonathan, right? Now, we can't bet on Jonathan if he wants to. It's funny, he made, he said a funny quote, he goes, you know, they have no control, I could build ballet shoes if I wanted. Now, we have to look at the category that he's in and make sure we feel like it can be, it can get to scale. So yeah, we do a little, once we get deeper down and figure out that this guy's great, he's going to figure something out. He's going to take a lot of different shots on goal until he does, which we've seen with lots of great creators who they're like, okay, I tried this business and I tried that business and it didn't work

• 10:58Speaker 01

  and they're going to keep going. Jonathan feels like the kind of guy who's going to keep going no matter what. And then, yeah, we've looked, we looked at woodworking, like, are there other businesses in his, in his genre that are making tools that are at 50, 100, 200 million dollars in revenue? And we look at that and we compare them and we say, hey, listen, this is a, this is good signal.

• 11:16Sam Parr?

  Can I actually walk through that? Because I am curious, because like, if I have a passion or if I'm a listener and I have a passion for something and I'm like, does this have legs? Or maybe it doesn't quite have legs, but if I just change it a little bit, like, the trajectory might be a lot different, but still within the passion of what I want to make, content wise?

• 11:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:32Sam Parr?

  So like, all right, so if you're doing woodworking, where would I start to research to give me faith that this can be a 50 million dollar a year company?

• 11:41Speaker 01

  Right, okay, so that's a really good question. So the, the really interesting thing about backing creators that are in passion categories is they have real expertise in the area that they're in, which is to say, because Jonathan's creating content in woodworking, he knows all the other woodworkers, he knows all the tool companies, he knows everybody in that area and we kind of trust them to understand their own white space. So these creators that we're backing and the creators that like, I think have the best opportunity are the ones that are so deep in a niche that they've been working in for five, 10 years. They're like, oh, they identify the white space.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  It's not for us, like, we're, we're here to say, hey, you're, we want to match capital with creators and who are founders who want to build something scaled and we rely on them. You know, Doug Demiro, right? Back to Doug, like Doug's been in the car game, both on the editorial side. And creating content, meeting all the manufacturers. He knows when he, you know, there's four or five other auction platforms that are available to people who are buying cars. Doug's like, this is the one we need to build and this is why.

• 12:55Sam Parr?

  But when you're, when you're trying to justify that, surely you're, you're just thinking like, all right, I feel like with some degree of certainty, the best case scenario is it's going to be a billion dollar company in 10 years, something like that. And so what I, what I'm curious about though is let's say that like, let's say that I'm interested in architecture, but also like art history. Let's say that I'm like, uh, you know, a 28 year old person, I hate my job. I'm sort of interested in art history and architecture, but I want to build something sustainable and like potentially one, like the, the route that I pick with my content. I would imagine there's some type of equation where it's like, I guess it would be the

• 13:34Sam Parr?

  size of the audience multiplied by the gross profit per item sold multiplied by the quantity that they will buy. Do you guys have anything like that?

• 13:45Speaker 01

  I think it's a little bit more creative than math, uh, which is to say, we can't be experts in every, every niche category and say, hey, this is how, this is how this is going to pan out. I mean, you have a sense of like, hey, these are, these are, I mean, like, look, Kevin, Kevin's in the seed business, like seeds don't seem like they're very, you know, like you, they're very inexpensive, but at scale, like it's a massive business. I think we look for categories where they're, they're high spend, um, where people are passionate about them and that the founder really understands the category and is telling us where they think the white space is more than us saying, oh, here's a math, here's math to solve that problem.

• 14:26Sam Parr?

  Yeah, that's funny. I mean, I, my, my last company was The Hustle and like Jesse or Churnin came to me and they're like, oh, maybe you can be one of these like, I don't even think they had like a word for it, but they, they were recruiting me to become, uh, it was very, uh, light recruitment, but it was like a, let's see if there's a fit, maybe we could invest in you and you be one of these creator led businesses. And I was like, I didn't even have faith that it can become that, like I didn't know. You know what I mean? I definitely didn't believe it.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  What? Yeah. Churnin was really interesting because. You know, we at Churnin, it was it was different at kind of a growth stage because you at post-investment, you can spend so much more time with the businesses than you can early stage. You know, there's a willingness to roll up your sleeves and like help help build it out. Like, there's a lot of work we put into those companies post-investment at Churnin. That earlier stage, we kind of are betting on the founder to figure it out.

• 15:17Sam Parr?

  I think every man who's above like 35 years old has a dream to do what this next creator is doing, which is owning a ranch and selling meat. What is, what is Five Marys?

• 15:29Speaker 01

  Well, Five Marys is rad. So it was started by a woman named Mary Heffernan and her husband Brian as well. But Mary's like, Mary's the big driver of it and Brian would agree with that as well. She started as a restaurateur in the Bay and couldn't find like ethically sourced meats in the way that she really wanted, at scale that she wanted for her for her restaurants. So she started looking at ranches and she ended up buying a ranch. She's like super entrepreneurial, get up and go badass. She found this ranch kind of in the Mount Shasta area, this area called Fort Jones, which is near the like California Oregon border. And she bought a ranch and started raising her own cattle there. She now has 600 acres, 600 cut of cattle.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  She's got a butchery, she does shipping, she has a, you know, like a FDA approved slaughterhouse. And she's built a very large scale business from 400, 400,000 followers on her Instagram channel.

• 16:28Sam Parr?

  And what was her original content? Like, what got the first 10,000 followers?

• 16:32Speaker 01

  It was all her moving to this ranch and building out this ranch life. So she tells stories about herself, her family. She's got four daughters that are all rad, that are all cowgirls. Obviously, they didn't start that way when they were when they were little, but they're now kind of like 16, 14, 15, 13, like in that area. They're all ropers, they like compete. So they're always going around, but it's like ranch life, caring about the food, caring about the people who you work with, building out business. Also, just a very strong female entrepreneur vibe. She like taught courses. To other women who are building businesses. Actually, the Ballerina Farms woman took her course and then launched Ballerina Farms.

• 17:13Sam Parr?

  What's Ballerina Farms? That's another, is similar?

• 17:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, Ballerina Farms has a lot, has a little bit more controversy around it. But the woman's name, who I forget right now, lives in Utah. Her husband and her bought a ranch and it's like very well shot. It's very beautiful and it's a little bit more composed than Mary's content. Mary's content is a little bit more like, if you look at Mary's content right now, you're like literally watching her build a house. Her and her husband and her kids are going out and like grabbing rocks and putting, from the land and putting them on the hearth and she's building them out. She's feeding cows.

• 17:49Sam Parr?

  So was she successful before she bought the ranch?

• 17:51Speaker 01

  No, she had like three or four restaurants in San Francisco.

• 17:54Sam Parr?

  Got it.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, she was like, she's been, she's a, I mean, as you know with restaurants, they're not like, they can be doing great, but they're not, they're not like, you can't, it's hard to retire off them until you get to real scale. So she was a proprietor. I think of her as a proprietor. That's the category I would put her in. She had restaurants, she was serving great food. She had a good life, but it wasn't what she wanted. So she went out to the farm instead of, she saw an opportunity to like, build a ranch that had ethically sourced meats and raise cattle and tell the story while she was doing it. It's like so deeply authentic.

• 18:26Sam Parr?

  It's, it's basically like, I think I saw, I forget the director's name, Guy something.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  Guy Ritchie.

• 18:34Sam Parr?

  Guy Ritchie. And he was telling this story that always stuck with me. I think I heard it when I was a little bit younger and it always stuck with me. But it was basically like, when I try to live my life, he's like, I am a director and I want my life to be a movie and I'm the director of my own movie. I'm the director of my own life. And I hear like what she's doing or I see what Mary's doing. And to me, it's like, social media makes it so much easier and attainable to say, I'm gonna do something epic and I'm gonna bring people along the way. And that is why it's going to be so epic, because they're going to support me. And this is so awesome. So how big of a company does she have? And she's, and it's just selling beef?

• 19:11Speaker 01

  She, well, she does a lot of things. So she sells subscription boxes of beef. She also sells these, she's done these courses, like I mentioned. She sells whiskey and cookbooks. She actually doubled down recently on a tallow product line. So she, you know, because she processes her own meat and has, she has like tons of tallow and has been making it. You know, sparingly.

• 19:36Sam Parr?

  This lady's awesome. They do camps. They do cowboy camp where you could like go and.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I think it's a small part of her business, but it's definitely like she brings, she brings people on. It's, it's a heavy lift. She does it like it's seasonally, but she brings people in and kind of teaches them with the idea that people can learn what it's like to live a ranch life and, and come out there kind of in a dude ranchy kind of way, but she'll make you roll up your sleeves and do stuff for sure.

• 19:57Sam Parr?

  How, how big is this business? It's Five Mary's Ranch?

• 20:00Speaker 01

  I mean, so as far as like all of these businesses that I'm talking about, like as an investor, I talked to all these folks and I like some of them, if it's publicly disclosed, I will, I'd be happy to, to share that. But the way I would frame this business is that it is like, it has the ability to, to achieve venture scale.

• 20:16Sam Parr?

  And I, I would say the threshold of venture scale is probably a hundred million in revenue, right?

• 20:20Speaker 01

  It can do it.

• 20:21Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:22Sam Parr?

  Man, this is awesome.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  Also, the, the coolest thing about Mary is like, you know, the meat, the meat business is great and I think she will always do it and it's, but this tallow line that she launched is something that can scale even more. Like I don't know how much you've seen about what's going on with beef tallow and people using it for their skin and care. It's very popular and she does it right there on her farm. She makes, she makes it. They built a place to process it and they, they do it right there on the farm. And that's another line of business. And that brings me to another topic with all these guys is they have opportunity to take lots of shots on goal. It's like, okay, I built out this meat business. How much scale can it get to? Can I exit it?

• 21:05Speaker 01

  Do I want to exit it? And you get to a certain place there and then you say, okay, well, what else can I offer my audience that is totally organic to who I am? They will totally buy because they, it's something that they want. And maybe that thing becomes the thing that is venture scale, or maybe she tries something else that becomes venture scale. But the beautiful thing about all these creators and this kind of creator, middle class that we're talking about is like, it's not just one business that they can start.

• 21:29Sam Parr?

  But two things, I'm going to push back on two things and I want you to prove me wrong. Number one, focus. Like nine out of 10 times, uh, one of the reasons, nine out of 10 times, a lack of focus is what kills a company. Like it's, it's more often than not, it's better to do one thing incredibly well than to do a bunch of things because it's just hard to pull off a bunch of things.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  Great.

• 21:49Sam Parr?

  The second thing is operations is very challenging, particularly for a ranch. I mean, just like a software company is pretty easy. You're just behind a screen and there's no capex for a ranch. That's really hard. Who is operating her business and how on earth do you find all these wonderful operators? And also balance creating content, because I do this podcast two times a week. And then I also have a company and it's quite challenging. And that's probably a lot easier than running a ranch.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Great. Running a ranch is very hard and she will tell you and you can watch and you can see. So I agree with that. So when I think of focus, I think of my answer to your focus is prioritization, which is to say, she's gotten the ranch to a place. And now she decides if she wants to double down on another line of business. And then she needs to make sure that she has operators in place that can, that she has enough time to try and build out that next line of business and/or bring in another person or two to operate and help launch that next line of business. So she's got a ranch, then she's got to make sure she has enough time, energy, either with the people who are supporting her ranch or somebody to help her with the tallow line.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  So it's about prioritization and then building it out. I agree with you, but you look at somebody like, can I, like, if you look at somebody like Jocko Willink.

• 23:08Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  Are you familiar with Jocko?

• 23:10Sam Parr?

  Uh, I, what I know about him is he was a former SEAL.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:15Sam Parr?

  Badass, looks like a SEAL, looks like a G.I. Joe and has a podcast, but I don't know much about his products.

• 23:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. So that, so that's another example of like how you get to scale where you're trying shots on goal and thinking about prioritization. So Jocko, like you said, he's got a massive podcast. You're agree, he looks like a G.I. Joe and you're right that he, that he is an ex SEAL. And he's also very like taking pictures of his watch at 4:00 AM when he's starting his workout and he's a big jujitsu guy. He's also a very intentional father and talks about how to raise your kid, you know, kind of, uh, you know, not glued to screens and, and, and, you know, within, with intentionality, things like that. So Jocko like speaks to a lot of people and he has a great course called Echelon, which he teaches to Fortune 500 CEOs and people, and the, the general public can, can kind of apply

• 24:06Speaker 01

  and be part of those as well. And he did pretty well with that business and he continues to do well with that business.

• 24:11Sam Parr?

  Echelon is like, uh, so he dropped, I'm looking at the website, it's corporate. So I imagine like, if I had to guess, it's six figures and he comes and talks and then like three of his team will drop in and help you with some leadership issues and within your business.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  That's right. That's right. I think it's a more scale than that, but yes, I mean, he does, he, he does big conferences with like multiple like Fortune 500 CEOs. And he's very well respected in that, in that world.

• 24:35Sam Parr?

  Cool.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  Um, in the leadership, in the leadership, he talks a lot in his podcast and in books about how to be a great leader and how to like, you know, manage up and manage down. And he's, he's pretty prolific in that, in that sense. And then he launched a tactical apparel brand, starting with boots and moving into clothes, which are like, um, you know, your American made kind of workout slash military guy clothes.

• 25:01Sam Parr?

  Which I would have to imagine that would be one of the harder businesses actually to run.

• 25:04Speaker 01

  That's a very hard business.

• 25:06Sam Parr?

  Cause returns and yeah, returns and sizes and that would be hard.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Supply chain and yeah, it's, it's hard, right? And so he took those shots on goal, right? He saw a place where he thought he could move his audience, really interesting. Then he launched Jocko Fuel.

• 25:21Sam Parr?

  What's that protein?

• 25:22Speaker 01

  Like, it's like a, um, pre-workout, post-workout, during workout, energy drink, kind of grouping of drinks.

• 25:30Sam Parr?

  Dude, that probably crushes it.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  Crushes.

• 25:32Sam Parr?

  He probably makes a hundred million dollars a year in revenue off of that.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  Crushes. You know, and then, and then Chris Pratt joined in because you know, Chris Pratt is very military friendly and likes Jocko and like all that kind of stuff. And that thing is like, you know, it's in Walmart, it's in GNCs. It's like, you know, and Walmart really likes to support those like military founders and like, you know, it's a, it's a product that people like. And people really trust them because he has, you know, like a, like, like they would a Huberman because you know, he's, he's, he's such a specimen. And he talks about working out and training and people really do that. So these are all places that he totally has permission to be in. And so you could say, okay, well, the focus is why one of them is not working better. Or you like try something, you launch it, it does fine.

• 26:13Sam Parr?

  But what do you do with the fine thing? Like is someone running his clothing company?

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's, I think that's what you do with the fine thing is you say, okay, this thing is like doing fine. Let's get, let's make sure somebody's running it. And I'm sure somebody's running it. He, he, he's a prolific content creator. So I'm sure he has partners and operators that are running these things, you know, being a leadership guy and being in the military. I'm sure his network is vast when it comes to like getting great operators and knowing how to work with them and communicate with them. I mean, he's a proper entrepreneur.

• 26:40Sam Parr?

  You know, what's funny is I, um, I guess I am a creator, which I, I don't have anything wrong with that, with that title, but I didn't seek out to become that. I previously started a business and I was mildly okay at running a company. I'm pretty good at hiring, but I was mildly okay at doing the work myself. And I would say I'm mildly okay at being a creator, but finding operators is still hard for me and like working with them as a partner is quite challenging. How do you find a partner? If like, let's say that you're listening to this and let's say that you have 20 or 30,000 followers and you're like, something is here, but I don't know when to get help. And how do you decide when and how?

• 27:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think entrepreneurs have to be able to, that, that, that is kind of one of the telltale signs if they, if they're a founder, that they know how to hire and that they can attract people to hire, which is to say, if you're a creator who like does general comedy and or just general entertainment and you decide, okay, I want to start coffee or I want to start goo in a bottle. I think attracting a operator is going to be very hard because they're going to say, okay, well, is this person really going to put the time into it? Are they really behind it? Is their audience really going to believe it? Like, is their audience really going to move when they say move? And you have to have a real value proposition for an operator to want to come on board and work with you.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  So I think if you have sound principles and what you want to build and why, you can find a good operator. Like part of that is the test of at least what we invest in. We invest in a creator that is a founder that can attract talent to run their businesses. So where do you go to find them? I mean, first you got to decide what your special sauce is and where you need support. And I've, I've heard you talk about many times, like where are places that you need support and you need to be very clear about that. And you need to, you need to like.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  Make sure that you're attracting talent that's going to like cover the 180 degrees. Also, you don't have to. You can kind of date before you marry, which is to say, work on some projects with them. You know, work on like, say, hey, I want to build this out. I want to try this out. Make sure you're you're putting enough capital into it. So you have money to pay an operator and that you have a plan for it. So I think it's really important to. We look for we look for folks that you need that can attract that kind of talent.

• 29:06Shaan Puri?

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• 29:45Sam Parr?

  Can I ask you about like, maybe one, or you tell me one or two more of these interesting folks, because I love hearing about this. But then also, after that, I'm going to ask you about if you're starting from scratch, like which niches or categories do you like?

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Well, I love. Okay, so there's, there's a couple of creators that are really interesting in the auto care space. There's this great guy named Larry. He has a company called Ammo NYC. And Larry does detailing of like celebrity cars.

• 30:13Sam Parr?

  Wow, Larry has 2.3 million subscribers on YouTube and all he's doing is cleaning cars and making videos about it?

• 30:21Speaker 01

  He details cars.

• 30:22Sam Parr?

  Sorry. Yeah, that was, that was the K-Van version of that. I'm looking at his videos. And first of all, there's like a $4 million asset mart that he cleans. But then there's also going to be like a car that's been in a barn for 40 years. And that's going to take like a week.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah, yeah. So he, yeah, so Larry has a robust business cleaning celebrity cars that either are going to auction, or they just have a badass collection and they're going to be taking it to, you know, a car show, or they're going to be, you know, going on, going on a trip that's with all the like hot, hot shit car owners. And he really gets in there and like really understands the cars and has built products with his own mixtures and built his own brushes and towels and everything, all D to C.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  And he uses the top of funnel, which is the car content of detailing these cars, which is like kind of car porn for people. And any car enthusiast who has like a proper collection knows Larry and uses his products.

• 31:34Sam Parr?

  Dude, I would watch these videos like on silent, like this would be like just played in the background of my living room on Apple TV for like, you know, eight hours while I'm just hanging out at day, just.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  Larry's awesome. Check out this other guy Detail Geek. So this is the other side of Larry.

• 31:48Sam Parr?

  Oh my God, this guy has almost four million subscribers. So what's he, what's he do? Like more low end stuff?

• 31:53Speaker 01

  He just like, he is somewhere in, I want to say like the Dakotas or the Midwest. I don't know. I don't, I can't remember exactly.

• 32:03Sam Parr?

  Somewhere where they drive lots of pickup trucks that could dirty.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  That's right. It looks like the cars have been for like four weeks on a hunting trip in the mud where he's like getting out shotgun shells and he does these 20 minute long videos that get insane views and he too launched his own products called Detail Geek. Really, really interesting guy. I've tried to talk to him many times. I talked to him once. Um, he's very happy with his lifestyle business. He does not want to engage with people who invest in these things and help scale these things. He's like, I like my family. I like my life and I make good money and Bob's your uncle. Um, and he doesn't

• 32:47Speaker 01

  need it. And you know, Larry's a little bit more in the sexy world. Uh, but this, but, but the Detail Geek does not care.

• 32:53Sam Parr?

  This guy's awesome. What's your, what's your, uh, you probably can't say, it's a stupid question for me to even ask, but this company definitely does more than 10 million in revenue, I would think.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  Here's what I'll say. All of these middle-class creators, I think, have the ability to be venture style businesses with the right, with the right founder and the right hires. So, which is to say, direct to consumer businesses. Who kind of, somebody came up with an idea like Casper or glasses that you can buy over the internet or shoes that are different, like they were kind of built in a brand boardroom. And somebody said, okay, well, I have a new product, right, that I think the audience wants. And then I'm gonna go build a brand and then I'm gonna go build an audience and I'm gonna go spend a money, a bunch of money to, to build consumers. These kind of middle class brands have gotten to a place where they're like, I already have the audience.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  I know product market fit. I'm ready to, I'm ready to go. And then it's the right fuel to the fire determines whether they're gonna get to venture scale or not.

• 33:55Sam Parr?

  When they're starting, is it just oftentimes them with an iPhone and them editing it either on their phone or on their computer? And how, how big have you seen them get it with just doing it in that sort of scrappy hustler way?

• 34:11Speaker 01

  Great. That's a great camp. So Mary, back to Mary, she just shoots everything on her iPhone. Like, that's it. You know, she's, she's on Instagram. She shoots everything on her iPhone. It goes on her reels. Like, you know, it's just her making the content. So that's one, that's one version of it. So if the question is from your audience, can I get started without a big setup? The answer is yes. You know, like, yes. And obviously depends on the genre you're in and the stories that you're telling. You know, Mary's telling a story about her life. She's relatable. Like, you, you wanna know where your meat comes from? It's Mary. It comes from there. It's not highly produced, beautiful, you know, it's just Mary doing her thing. And Mary's rad and her kids are rad and her

• 34:52Speaker 01

  husband's rad. And you can tell that right away. Larry started with a small setup and now he's got a four bay or a three bay garage in his spot in Connecticut. That's all lit. And he's got a guy who shoots it with him. And he still does it all himself.

• 35:09Sam Parr?

  But it's just two guys, two guys with two, with almost three million subscribers, basically.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, he's got more people that work in the business. But yeah, it's like two or three guys. But it's like a beautiful studio slash detail spot. It's all well lit. He's very intentional about the look and feel. And that makes sense for like these high end cars, right? Like, it's like, For high end cars and people who are like very wealthy, who have, you know, multimillion dollar car collections, who are watching this kind of video like, you wanna like, you don't wanna just shoot it on iPhone. You want it to look beautiful. Cause Larry cares about what one side of the car looks like before, and one side of the car looks like after. And you gotta, you gotta really show that. So you need equipment and you need light and that you can't just shoot it, you know, in the front, you know, in the front driveway. There's one more really funny story that I think you, you would like. There's this guy named Tonester.

• 35:58Sam Parr?

  Oh, I like him already. Who's Tonester?

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Tony, I don't really, I don't wanna butcher his last name.

• 36:04Sam Parr?

  He better, he better be some Italian guy with the name of Tonester.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  So he was working at Sherman Williams. Making like, you know, like it's like an entry level job, making blends for paints.

• 36:15Sam Parr?

  Oh, Tone, like paint Tone. I thought it was like Tony from the garage with like slick back hair.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  It's like a little bit, it's like a little bit of that. He's not like a slick old guy like that. He's like, he's, he's an interesting cat and he's done a great job. So he starts making TikToks. While he's working at Sherman Williams, while he's blending paint. Just kind of like talking about paint blends and just kind of posting TikToks casually. And he starts to blow up and then he gets fired. From Sherman Williams because he's using their office for TikTok.

• 36:43Sam Parr?

  Oh, they blew that one.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Which is like, duh, right? So he launched his own paint brand.

• 36:51Sam Parr?

  Oh, my God.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  Called Tonester Paints. And it's like running a clown card into a bank, other than he's not a clown. He's really smart and he's done a really great job. And he, if you look at his TikTok, you know, he's got north of a million followers and he's has like a-

• 37:05Sam Parr?

  No dude, on TikTok, he's got 2.3 and on YouTube, he's got a million. And I'm almost positive that all the videos, it's literally just a camera on a paint can and he sticks the drills in there and he mixes it. That's all it is.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  That's right. And so that's where it's kind of like back to your story where you can just start.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  And then if you hit the right audience, you can, you can, you can really build it out. But I think the, the ones that are, and we'll see how he does. He's doing great now and he's a smart business guy and he's figuring it out. And is that a venture scale business? Like, is he gonna have his own Sherman Williams? Is it gonna get to a hundred million dollars in here? He could. It depends on execution at that point. I think that the ones that I look at and the things that we want to invest in, it's slow. And the things that I think have a better shot to get to venture scale businesses are the ones that have been building audience trust for years that are known for that specific niche. And they have a really strong community and they are creators that are entrepreneurs.

• 38:06Sam Parr?

  How long are they typically creating content before they launch a product?

• 38:10Speaker 01

  They could, they could do it on their first one or they could do it after four or five years. You know, Jonathan Katz Moses, the woodworker, you know, he, he launched a product very soon after. And, and kind of his story was about launching the product, a lot of it. But he, he did a lot of videos about woodworking and tips and tricks. And people were following around for a while. So I don't think, I think it just depends on your niche and your audience. Like, I think like you really have to be a trusted voice of authority in your niche. You know, like you have to, people really trust Jocko, you know? People really trust Atiya, people really trust Huberman, people really trust Mary.

• 38:48Sam Parr?

  But I'll push back a little bit on that because, because, okay, so Jocko was a veteran. So like he knows about being tough, which is like a kind of his thing. Peter Atiya is a doctor, so he knows about health. But yeah, like this guy worked at Sherman, Sherwin Williams.

• 39:04Speaker 01

  I agree. That's why it's like, who knows?

• 39:06Sam Parr?

  It's not like you need a PhD, you know? I think like they're not to discredit them, but like I bet you I could spend one year learning how to clean cars and I, and I can like make at least interesting enough content. And then maybe after a little while longer, like formulate a product. You know what I mean? It's not like I need to, I don't need to spend eight years of schooling to do this.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  Totally make, totally make, I agree with your point exactly, which is to say, Tonester is a we'll see because he hasn't spent, like for me. Somebody who has spent years and years and is a trusted, so back to your architect, architecture idea or your art, your, your artist idea, like somebody who has built five or six years of trust and authenticity with this, an audience and scaled it, they have more permission to launch paint. And then you think that you, you feel better about their understanding of both the industry and product market fit, feedback from their audience, what their lane is, what they can sell. Like you feel better about investing in somebody who's been in it for a long time versus somebody who is like, okay, for a couple

• 40:08Speaker 01

  of years, they've been creating content. So Tone Sir is like a big, we'll see. I think he's great and he's smart and he's going to do something. But somebody like Larry, yeah, I think you could start a detailed channel and like grow it. But Larry's been doing this for 10 years. And when it comes to getting distribution in other, you know, it's like getting to scale like the chemical guys did, which, you know, they took an $800 million check and they were, they had shops, they had locations, they scaled into all the different auto specialty shops and Home Depot and everywhere. Like that comes from years and years being involved in the industry and really understanding the white space and really understanding your audience, that people who kind of just get started, like,

• 40:50Speaker 01

  you know, Mary's been at it for six, seven years and built that trust. So I think the ones that build the trust and understand the community, like they really have an opportunity to scale in a way that somebody who's just getting started is like a, let's see.

• 41:03Sam Parr?

  So you can use a little bit of me as an example, but just the, just the audience, anyone who's listening and has a passion, but like, I, I've sort of thought like, oh, it might be interesting to do YouTube or Instagram a little bit more. It might be interesting to get into this creator space. What's the lessons that I should learn from these people on the repeatable process? Like what's the best practices that I should take away? Like, I know that this is part art where it's just like, if you have an it factor, it just kind of can work, but surely there's some type of workout plan where if I lift this amount of weight and eat this amount of food, then I'm going to be, I'm going to be at least in the 90th percentile, like do it for two years versus

• 41:45Sam Parr?

  everyone else. So like, what are the, what's like the, the lift weights and eat, and eat lots of protein kind of checklist?

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Version of this?

• 41:52Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  That's a good question. I mean, a couple of things that come to mind. And I'll, and I'll, we can decide together if it's a complete answer or not. I think for you personally, and for, or, or, or to take you as an example, like, I think you double down on the stuff that's really interesting to you and stuff that you want to talk about and bring people and you can build an audience around your journey, right? So you, you're doing a lot of that now, which is like business building, you're interested in entrepreneurs, you're interested in like what's going on in the business world and that, that, that'll drive into, you can decide if that's going to work in the bottom of the funnel. Where you can go beyond being a creator every day. So for example, like you like motorcycles, you are sober.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  You have a family and you are interested in like intentionally raising your kids and being a husband. I would think through the things that are your passion hobbies and that bring you the most joy and I would double down on creating for those things. With keeping in mind, it doesn't have to be day one, but pretty soon that you have to be thinking about creating content, building an audience. Establishing yourself as a voice of authority in something that there is a bottom of the funnel.

• 43:04Sam Parr?

  Bottom of the funnel, meaning a product that I could eventually sell.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  Yes. Kevin sells raised farm beds and seeds. Doug sells cars. Jonathan, the woodworker sells tools. The detailer sells chemicals. The toner guy sells paint. Mary sells meat. You know, on and on and on.

• 43:21Sam Parr?

  Do you think it's safe to say that any content niche can come up with a product or service that can sell? Or should you think first, like, what could I sell? And then let me think of which content falls within that category of something I'd be willing to dedicate 10 years to, to creating that content around.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's a good question. I mean, I think you don't want to, uh, you know, like, it's really hard to sell products if you're just funny, right?

• 43:45Sam Parr?

  Dude, those, those people, like, I was telling you about my, my Mormon buddies, they, like, the LA, New York crowd might laugh at them, like, oh, these, like, they might, like, you know, be highbrow and laugh at these people. The, the funny New York, like, or LA actor comedian crew who I know who makes content, they're, they're broke. They don't sell anything.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  That's right. I think you can build a big audience that doesn't transact and you should be careful about that. And I think if you're in a niche passion category that you like, learn and love, you will eventually figure out what the white space is and you can build a product or a service that works there. Um, and I can give you more examples of people who are doing that, but. I think if you're building content, you have to be keeping in mind what's the bottom of the funnel. Like, what am I moving? What am I going to move people to? But I think you start by building a voice of authority in an area. Like, you can't, even if you have a large scale audience in, you know, in an area, it doesn't mean that you can move products. Like, you have to learn how to do it. Like, the people that we've been talking about today, like, have learned how to move product and learn how to build

• 44:48Speaker 01

  product and learn supply chain and hiring and, you know, subscription and blogs and how to keep their audience from churning and how to, you know, keep things in stock. Like, you're an entrepreneur. You gotta, you gotta know how to, you gotta know how to build a business. And that is to say also, like, there are two kinds of business, I mean, there's lots of kinds of businesses, but two, there's like lifestyle business where it's like, hey, I can make a million dollars a year doing this, or I can make half a million dollars a year doing this, and, or I can make two million dollars a year doing this, and that's just fine with me. The problem with that is, is from varying deals and AdSense and like selling like merch and a couple little things here and there. The problem is, is once you stop, like, your revenue goes away.

• 45:28Sam Parr?

  You're, you're just a freelancer.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. You've built something that you can't exit. And for some people, that's okay. I'm like, it's not like a what's better or what's worse, but like, if you're going to spend five years building your audience, build them into something that you can like, transact into, and you can add value to them by cool new tools, or like, great ethically sourced meat, or like, cool color tones for your bedroom, or, you know, anything that kind of like adds value to your audience.

• 45:57Sam Parr?

  Is there a medium or a platform that matters? So you've, we've talked about TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube. Those are all video. One thing that I've predicted, I wrote this, or did, we did a podcast on this, where I'm like, there hasn't been like a billion dollar Twitter creator, but I think there will be, and there might be actually some now. I said this like three or four years ago. Do you think that it has to be video and audio? Or video, and we know podcasting works too. So video and audio?

• 46:22Speaker 01

  I think video and audio are the, are the examples that I've seen where people have been able to build kind of like lifestyle plus slash venture scale businesses. I think the audio is a great way to connect with your audience, like, consistently, and you can really like, own the relationship and. And build like a cadence of trust with them. It's a very intimate platform where if you love something, you listen to it weekly. I think video is the same way and building an ecosystem around the video. The video first platforms is for me, it has more signal.

• 46:58Shaan Puri?

  All right, instead of a commercial break, I'm going to tell you a quick little story. So a few years ago, I got really into crypto Bitcoin, Ethereum. I was all about it and I wanted to be at the center of the action. I didn't want just want to buy the coins. I actually wanted to be, you know, on the edge. I wanted to be a part of the community that was actually building this thing. And look, I'm not a genius. I don't know how to build a blockchain, but I did realize that I could create a newsletter that would keep people up to date on what was going on in the world of crypto. That's what I had wanted. I wanted to know what's new, what's interesting, what should I pay attention to? And I had friends that had sold their newsletter companies like Sam had built the hustle. Austin had built Morning Brew and they had sold their newsletters for tens of millions of dollars. So I thought, how hard could it be? I launched a newsletter called The Milk Road. It was a daily crypto newsletter and it grew like wildfire.

• 47:41Shaan Puri?

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• 48:25Shaan Puri?

  So go to Beehive.com and then use the code MFM30 to get the deal today. There's a link in the description.

• 48:32Sam Parr?

  I was gonna ask you what niches you think like someone should exploit. You said that was, you gave me the energy that was hard to answer, but I'm gonna, so I'm gonna like tease you up.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  You're gonna push me.

• 48:41Sam Parr?

  Yeah, well, I'm definitely gonna push you, but we're gonna ease into it.

• 48:43Speaker 01

  Push me, push me.

• 48:44Sam Parr?

  Listen, so I'm sure that you have a list of like creators that have one to 5,000 people. And you see them and you're like, oh, they're, they got something here. And, and, and who is on that list? Is there anyone like that or a category like that?

• 49:03Speaker 01

  I am, I'm gonna preface this by saying like, a lot of the companies that we've talked about here are very dude focused. And so I, I wanna like also say that there's, there's lots of categories that I'm, I'm still, I'm learning and getting better at. And, uh, but one is everyday carry, I think is a really interesting category.

• 49:21Sam Parr?

  Everyday carry being handguns or does that include like mace and knives and everything?

• 49:26Speaker 01

  I think like knives, I mean, obviously we've seen what's going on with Ridge Wallet, but like a creator that owns that, um, like what you keep, what you keep in your, in your, in your pocket every day. So yeah, knives, uh, wallet, uh, watch, keychain, pens, writing tables. There's, there's some creators out there that do it. There's a really cool scaled company that sells knives called Blade HQ. It's also a, a, a company that's in, uh, that's in Utah. And they started creating content because they couldn't advertise because they were selling what is considered by the internet weapons. Um, and, um, I think the, the every, the everyday carry creator, there are some of them that are really kind of popping up.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  They haven't, some of them haven't reached the scale.

• 50:13Sam Parr?

  You know what? I, I completely agree with that. And if I was listening to this, so I think that there can be a Hodinkee. So Hodinkee was a watch blog that eventually.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  I was on the board of Hodinkee. We, we invested in it, churned.

• 50:24Sam Parr?

  And I don't know, it did, the outcome wasn't as expected, but it doesn't.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 50:29Sam Parr?

  But I don't think that meant the business itself was bad. I don't know anything about the company, but if I had to guess, maybe it was like, they just grew too fast or something like that. And you could correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there should be a Hodinkee for fountain pens or a Hodinkee for fancy pens.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  I agree. That's, I mean, I think those are the kind of things when we see those, we're like, whoa, you know, like chess creators, really interesting. People who play chess, passionate, you know, um, that's interesting. Yeah. Fountain pens, any of the everyday carry stuff is great. I also think two egg creators, like second amendment right creators, who are teaching, um, who kind of do product reviews on different guns and different vinyl and different holsters and things like that, have a massive audience. Obviously, we've seen what happened with Black Rifle Coffee.

• 51:11Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  Um, but, um, the ones who are actually teaching about tactics and safety and different weapons and scopes and, and vinyl to, to kind of carry it, like those have massive audiences. And have, and some of them have built scale businesses. And I think that, that, that's an interesting category as well.

• 51:30Sam Parr?

  There's a guy named, um, I actually, this is like the first time I've ever said this word out loud. It's just one of those words that I, I read it and I know it, but I'm afraid. So I don't know if it's Hickcock or Hickokay45. I thought maybe that meant like he's in Oklahoma and he's like a redneck and he was born in 1945. And he's this old man that you would only understand this if you live in the South or you live in the Midwest like I am from. And we all had grandfathers like this. They like wore like overalls or regular jeans and like a flannel shirt and they're pretty nice and stoic and you like being around them. Well, that's what this guy is. Except his passion is like every type of gun on earth.

• 52:11Sam Parr?

  And so he'll do like a machine gun and they'll say like, oh, this is a cute little machine gun. Let's see what it's about. Or he'll be like, uh, like a revolutionary, and I don't know anything about guns, but I just like watching it. But it'll be like a Revolutionary War cannon or like, uh, the type of gun in the Civil War where they like, uh, you know, put the thing down and then they load the blacks. I don't know anything about this shit. Or like a silencer on a gun. You're like, what's that sound like? And this guy, have you ever seen this guy? He's got eight million subscribers on YouTube.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  No, I haven't seen.

• 52:41Sam Parr?

  Oh my God. It's like.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Look at, look at T-Rex arms.

• 52:44Sam Parr?

  He's the Bob Ross of guns is what he is. That's the best way to put it.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  That's awesome. Yeah. There's, and there's some newer cats on the scene. Like, check out this T-Rex arm. It was started by a couple of brothers. One of them's name was Lucas Botkin, and he's actually since broken off from T-Rex arms. But it's like tactical Second Amendment content creators, massive firearms accessory business. You know, does some advertising, but there's a lot of restrictions on that. Sells their own tactical gear, has a total cult-like loyalty. And they're running a really scaled business. Now, what crazy thing is, is Lucas is part of Brothers, and Lucas and the Brothers have split, and Lucas is now starting his own thing. So I'm actually interested to see what Lucas builds on his own, and if T-Rex continues to grow, but that's a, that's a properly scaled business.

• 53:33Sam Parr?

  All right, so Everyday Carry, what else?

• 53:35Speaker 01

  I mentioned chess. I think that's interesting. People are really passionate about that. We've seen some really cool scaled businesses come out of chess.

• 53:42Sam Parr?

  What's a chess business that's scaled?

• 53:45Speaker 01

  Chess.com.

• 53:47Sam Parr?

  I mean, that's a multi-billion dollar company.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  That's right. That's right. Jiu-Jitsu?

• 53:54Sam Parr?

  Yeah, we, we know that.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  That's a really great category. Have you seen Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Fanatics?

• 53:59Sam Parr?

  I live in Texas, man. I feel like if you, you, you, like, everyone did that shit.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, look, look up the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Fanatics website. This is a two-sided marketplace, started by a Jiu-Jitsu champion and a guy who kind of did like continuing education.

• 54:17Sam Parr?

  Oh, of course, I know who this guy is. This is the famous coach, right?

• 54:21Speaker 01

  Right. But what he does, it's a two-sided marketplace. So Jiu-Jitsu instructors can upload their videos,

• 54:29Speaker 01

  and then people can sort through, like, I want to do, learn how to do a, you know, rear naked choke, or I want to learn how to sprawl better, or whatever. They can pick coaches that they like. The site can help kind of ID coaches that you might be interested in. It's total web 1.0.

• 54:44Sam Parr?

  This is great.

• 54:44Speaker 01

  And I can't say how much they're doing, but it's a, it's a good business.

• 54:47Sam Parr?

  What about you being the creator?

• 54:49Speaker 01

  No, man, this is like the hardest thing I do, man. Talking, talking, like seeing myself on the internet is like my least favorite thing. I'm very excited to talk to you. I think that's what you want to talk about is great. But man, I will never watch this because I just cannot watch myself. I cannot be a creator.

• 55:04Sam Parr?

  Dude, no one watches themselves. Like I've never seen MFM in my life. And it's one of these things where you have to have tough skin. But like the Mormon family that I mentioned, they have a whole subreddit dedicated to mocking them. And I met them and these people were the most loving.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  They're the nicest people in the world.

• 55:21Sam Parr?

  They were the, it was the most loving family. They took us in. I felt like I barely knew them and I was their cousins. They were like the most loving family and people mocked them like crazy. And then on our pod, someone will be like, you know, you, you look fatter or skinnier than I thought, or you look older or younger. And like, we get mocked constantly.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I think it's a very hard thing to do is like putting it out there and, and, and building their audience around things that they're really passionate about talking about. And, um, and yeah, I love the idea of getting involved in a creator led business. But right, right now, I really love the, the thesis that we have at Slow, kind of like building out,

• 55:57Speaker 01

  uh, supporting them and matching capital to creators who are entrepreneurs who are really wanting to build, build things at scale.

• 56:02Sam Parr?

  Let's say someone said, all right, you got to quit Slow right now and you have to go and join, um, we'll give you like a draft, like you get three, you get three picks of creators that you're like, I wanna.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  Oh, actual creators?

• 56:13Sam Parr?

  I want to join that company and I want like a little stake in it. Are there three that you think are going to the moon? You know, we, we have these things called Sarah's List. Sarah's was my wife because she joined, uh, we like planned where she could join Airbnb at a time where she could still have a very comfy gig, like a 40 hour, you're not totally grinding and you get a lot of salary, but your stock is still a 10x. You know, if there was a, if there was a, a, a billy list, uh, for you and traders that you like, what would the top three or four be?

• 56:46Speaker 01

  Oh my God.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  I love what Kevin and Doug are doing at Epic Gardening and Cars and Bits. Like, those are both humans that I like and would like to work with, which is kind of like my most important, which if you asked me if I hypothetically would go and work with a creator, like, I would need to like, love them as a human and love the category. And those are both categories I can really get behind.

• 57:13Sam Parr?

  I just sold my car on Cars and Bits.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  Oh, you did? What car?

• 57:17Sam Parr?

  Uh, 2020 AMG E63 station wagon.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  Nice. Were you happy with the price?

• 57:23Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I got what I wanted. I hit my reserve.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  Oh, good. Yeah, I think that's awesome. I only own old cars, so now that Doug is selling old cars as well, I can sell my Scout if I'm ready to move on it. But I, uh, that's great. Yeah, yeah, it's a good, it can be a really good buying experience for everybody. Okay, um, you should follow Sarah McAllister. Sarah McAllister has a company called Go Clean Go. Right now, Sarah is just like the queen of clean. And people have been following her since like the pandemic, and she's been building, she's got a couple million subscribers on Instagram, I think 2.4. And I think she's got a real shot to build a really awesome business. So I think she's really cool.

• 58:05Sam Parr?

  But does she own a housework.com?

• 58:07Speaker 01

  That's what it is. I don't remember exactly what it is, but yeah. So she has people that love her. They dress up for her as Halloween. And, um, she is a badass and she is really cool. So I really like that business.

• 58:21Sam Parr?

  Does she sell anything yet? Or is it just, it looks like she doesn't even have like her own products. So there is still, like, it looks like it's, she's still a, predominantly a media company.

• 58:29Speaker 01

  She mostly makes revenue through, yeah, affiliate links and brand deals and stuff like that at the moment.

• 58:34Sam Parr?

  Oh, this lady's gonna kill it. That's a good one.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  I think she's great.

• 58:37Sam Parr?

  The queen of clean. That's a good one.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  I don't know if that's what anybody calls her, but I just said that.

• 58:43Sam Parr?

  Dude, if this lady comes out with a laundry detergent. Like that's gonna be the greatest thing ever.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  Forget it.

• 58:49Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  I really like her. Um, I also really like this creator named Gohar Khan. So when he was like thirteen, fourteen, or maybe even younger, he started making like Minecraft YouTube videos. Right? And he built this massive audience and then he kind of like put it down, focused on school, got into MIT. And when he was in MIT, it was during COVID. So he started making videos about going to, going to an Ivy, right? Like going to MIT. You know, I think he has, you, you tell me, I don't have it in front of me. What does he have? Six million YouTube subscribers?

• 59:26Sam Parr?

  Yeah, more. Oh, my God. I'm looking at his numbers. Uh, how? So is he in his teens still?

• 59:33Speaker 01

  So he launched this, no, no, no, he's post-college and he's launched this thing called NextAdmit, which helps students write college entrance exams.

• 59:42Sam Parr?

  Just teaches them how to use ChatGPT?

• 59:44Speaker 01

  No, it teaches them like, teaches them how to not, right? So he has people that like read through them who have also been into Ivies. He reads through them and he basically like, you know, at, I don't know, eighty bucks a pop or something. He helps you kind of like do that. But he's also kind of gives you a lot of information about how to think about the big story you're gonna tell when you want to get into college about the thing you did in high school. And now he's starting like SAT prep courses. And he just knows his audience and he knows that young first generation kid who wants to get into that Ivy. Not, not bums like you and I were in high school. And he really has an opportunity to build a really scaled, uh, service business

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  that really understands what kids are thinking and kids want when they're trying to get into Ivies and they're trying to get into colleges. So I like him a lot.

• 1:00:34Sam Parr?

  Those are two good ones.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  Really interesting.

• 1:00:36Sam Parr?

  You, and I'll, and I'll wrap up by reciprocating. I'll give you my two.

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  Okay, good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, please.

• 1:00:40Sam Parr?

  Do you have YouTube in front of you right now?

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  First, bro.

• 1:00:43Sam Parr?

  I had to think while you were talking. So the first one I mentioned, this guy's got a harder path to build a business because clothes are harder. But it's called the Iron Snail. Alright, so the Iron Snail, I started following this guy a while ago. His background is that he went to film school. And Sean and I talked about this on a previous podcast, that the creators nowadays, the younger folks. When, you know, when I was, well, still, but even when I was younger and YouTube was just getting started, it was all about being authentic, which meant like kind of scrappy and just thrown together. Now they're way more well-produced. And so this guy tells you both the history of clothing, like why Jamaicans are obsessed with Clark shoes. Apparently there's like some history behind that. Oh yeah.

• 1:01:28Sam Parr?

  But then he'll also do like, here's the highest quality, lowest price clothing ranked. He'll say, why are the Jap- why do Japanese makes the best jeans on earth? Damn, right. And so he'll like break down and do these really interesting topics. And you know what's funny is like, the reason why he's gonna win is because you can be a woman, this is mostly men's clothes, you could be a woman, you could not give a shit about clothing, you could not give a shit about history, but you watch his videos because they're so well-produced and because he's so funny, he's hilarious, that you're engaged and you're bought in. And he is currently in the process of launching his own clothing line. And so he's like, he's documenting it. Clothing is like the hardest thing ever, so it's gonna be a hard business, but...

• 1:02:12Sam Parr?

  And the second one is Project Air. So look up Project Air, it's this young guy named James, who's in the UK. And it originally started out with him building model airplanes. So what started as just like a model plane, turned into like an RC plane, which then turned into, I'm gonna build the world's fastest RC jet. Or I'm gonna build the world's largest RC jet, or I'm gonna set the land speed record for an RC car. And he's even done things like, I'm gonna send like a SpaceX, I'm gonna send a rocket up and I'm gonna have it land right back down, just like SpaceX does, except I'm gonna do it like in my garage.

• 1:02:53Sam Parr?

  So it's like became like hacker engineering stuff to where the stuff that he does is actually incredibly... Challenging math problems like he's

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:03:02Sam Parr?

  A proper engineer. He's got one video where he built an RC battleship and he was like, I'm gonna have them Fight and sink each other. Uh, and I see this guy and I see-

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  What do you think his bottom of the funnel is?

• 1:03:14Sam Parr?

  Selling RC kits. It's very similar to, um, Mark, uh, what's-

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  Mark Rober, Crunch Labs.

• 1:03:20Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it's very similar where it's educational stuff. And if I had to guess, a large percentage of fathers like me, Who want my children to like, I think it's cool, but like, I don't want to build an RC plane and take it somewhere. I'm gonna look like a pedophile going and doing this shit. That would be weird. But if I get my kid into it, I can still, you know, like have fun doing this shit. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want to go like buy an RC car and take it to a school.

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  How old's your, how old's your, how old's your little one again?

• 1:03:45Sam Parr?

  We got a ways to go.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  You got a ways to go, but you're just gonna bring him along in the, in the pram.

• 1:03:49Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I'd be like, dude, my kid's just a prop, basically. So I could go to a schoolyard with a, with a really fast RC car.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 1:03:58Sam Parr?

  And so, and so I think there's a bottom of the funnel for that to like build, uh, like model kits.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  I will check him out. Yeah, Rober has done it, right? Like that's, I mean, that business has exploded. Those guys have done a great job building out those, that subscription kits.

• 1:04:11Sam Parr?

  And there's this entire, there's this one guy, his name's Remi. I think R E M I. And this will be my last one. Type in Remi RC plane. So check this out. This is so strange. So it's R A M I R C. He has a million followers. Tell me what the first video that you see. Can you, can you tell me what that says?

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  Remi RC plane, world's biggest RC, 20 million views on this one, building an Airbus.

• 1:04:41Sam Parr?

  This guy is building a freaking Airbus. So he's building remote control airplanes that are the size of a, of a Olympic sized pool, like these shit. It's basically a fucking plane is what he's building. And there's a really weird part about this story. So they never truly call this out, I think. Maybe they do occasionally.

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:05:00Sam Parr?

  But you're gonna see him on like an air, uh, like an airstrip. And you're gonna see him take, take off from a house. And you're like, does this guy, is Remy just a rich guy with a, with a, where, what is going on?

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:05:12Sam Parr?

  It's Tyler Perry's house. So Tyler Perry, his hobby is he loves RC planes. And so he is this guy's patron. And so this guy, Remy, I don't know if he lives there or if he just spends some time there, but Tyler Perry.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  He just puts him in a pram and takes him to the park?

• 1:05:30Sam Parr?

  He, I don't know what he does, but Tyler Perry has this massive hangar at his house. Except I bet you he has a hangar with real planes, to be honest, he's so wealthy, but

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:38Sam Parr?

  He also has one dedicated to RC planes. And you'll see, it's so funny, Tyler makes cameos, like you'll see him, like, basically, I, I know that Tyler's paying for it. Because Tyler is always the one flying the plane. And so these guys, Remy, will like build the jets and just hand it to this like guy who they barely talk about or mention, and it's Tyler flying the jet. Because they like, don't want to wreck, you know, it probably costs a hundred grand for this jet. And, uh, this guy, it's, it's such a, oh, I guess they do call it out, so flying planes with Tyler Perry. But that's like, basically it, like, they barely talk about it. The fact that it's just this like guy, I think it's from Dubai.

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  That's the internet, bro. That's the internet.

• 1:06:17Sam Parr?

  So cool. And so this guy has a million followers. And I think that's like another interesting thing. So those are my picks.

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's good. This isn't a pick that, that, uh, like my, anyway, you should check this one out. Have you seen Hacksmith?

• 1:06:31Sam Parr?

  What's Hacksmith?

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  Dude, these guys just dropped something called the Smith Blade.

• 1:06:36Sam Parr?

  Oh, these guys are gonna kill it.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  Dude, seven, they just did seven million dollars on Kickstarter in like a week. Thirteen, well, it says thirteen days ago, I think. I think they dropped it this time last week, that's what I want to say, seven million dollars.

• 1:06:52Sam Parr?

  And it's just a box cutter?

• 1:06:54Speaker 01

  It's a, no, it's a multi-tool. A multi-tool, it's like a Swiss Army knife, right? It's got like five different kinds of knives on it and like, you know, a Swiss Army knife is gonna have your toothpick and your tweezers and a couple of different kinds of knives that have different edges and blades on it. And this one is built with the kind of intention of everything that you would, like, these guys also sell lightsabers. Like, you gotta check out their, their YouTube page.

• 1:07:17Sam Parr?

  Oh my God, and they have 15 million subscribers.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, they they sell like lightsabers and and and all kinds of like

• 1:07:26Sam Parr?

  What's a lightsaber? Is that just a flashlight?

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  A lightsaber? Have you seen Star Wars?

• 1:07:31Sam Parr?

  I know what it is, but I don't know how I would make one.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  So you haven't seen, you just know about Star Wars? You haven't seen Star Wars?

• 1:07:37Sam Parr?

  No, I was like playing sports and stuff and going outside.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  I also played sports and I know and I know what Star Wars is.

• 1:07:45Sam Parr?

  I know what it is, but I don't know how, is it a flame?

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  It's a little, it's a mini lightsaber, bro. Check it out. I mean, they call them sabers.

• 1:07:53Sam Parr?

  But what comes out of the metal part? A piece of plastic?

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  Light.

• 1:07:57Sam Parr?

  But that's just a flashlight, no?

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  These are, yeah, they're badass flashlights. You could call it that. But they're, you know, they're $150 Canadian or they're $350 or they're $500. They're like badass.

• 1:08:10Sam Parr?

  I just bought a $500 laser pointer the other day because apparently if I could shine it on a piece of paper, it's gonna light it on fire. So I'm not saying like I'm above this.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  Yo, no, no, no, no one's above this. This is cool.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  I'm I'm into it. I'll tell you, no, no one's above it. These guys just sold $7 million in multi-tools in like a week. So.

• 1:08:29Sam Parr?

  I hope our wives are still willing to have sex with us by the end of this episode. Billy, man, you're you're cool. I'm really thankful that you came on and and and hopefully hopefully we'll stay friends, but you're the man.

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. Thanks for having me on. I love what you're doing and, you know, happy hunting.

• 1:08:47Sam Parr?

  Thank you. That's it. That's the pod.

• 1:08:59Sam Parr?

  My friends, if you like MFM, then you're gonna like the following podcast. It's called Billion Dollar Moves. And of course, it's brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the number one audio destination for business professionals. Billion Dollar Moves. It's hosted by Sarah Chen Spelling. Sarah is a venture capitalist and strategist. And with Billion Dollar Moves, she wants to look at unicorn founders and funders, and she looks for what she calls the unexpected leader. Many of them were underestimated long before they became huge and successful and iconic. She does it with unfiltered conversations about success, failure, fear, courage, and all that great stuff. So again, if you like My First Million, check out Billion Dollar Moves. It's brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. Again, Billion Dollar Moves.