Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 31: Namaste Sexy

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode 31: Namaste Sexy. Karen dived deep into the world of Lululemon with the Yoga Store Murder and then Georgia told the tale of Tent Girl and the Doe Network. Listen for all-new commentary, case updates and much more!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:06Speaker 00

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• 0:36Speaker 01

  Football Sundays are at my house this year, so I've been making a Total Wine & More run before every kickoff. Cold beer for the group is a given, but this time of year I like to bring in some fall flavors. A bottle of maple whiskey and a salted caramel whiskey that even my friends who don't drink whiskey end up trying. I get everything I need at the lowest prices at Total Wine. Discover your new favorite fall flavors at Total Wine & More. Spirits are not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. Must be 21.

• 1:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello and welcome.

• 1:20Georgia Hardstark?

  To Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

• 1:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Because you see, every Wednesday, we take the time to recap our old episodes for you, but we add all-new commentary, we add updates, and we add insights.

• 1:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Hmm, and today, we're recapping episode 31, which we named Namaste Sexy.

• 1:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Such a good name.

• 1:40Georgia Hardstark?

  So good.

• 1:40Karen Kilgariff?

  So now, join us as we take you back to August 25, 2016, and now you can be a day one listener, just like we are.

• 1:49Georgia Hardstark?

  So let's listen to the intro of episode 31.

• 1:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, it doesn't matter if you're ready, Steven.

• 1:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Because we'd be right, like the real us is just berating Steven.

• 2:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Steven includes a seven second, just me ringing him before the episode starts.

• 2:09Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like a, um, what's it called? When you're a hostage and you're like trying to send a message to the outside world.

• 2:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:17Georgia Hardstark?

  It's all Stockholm syndrome.

• 2:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Stockholm syndrome. Yeah, that's right. Steven has really bad Stockholm syndrome. Evil.

• 2:23Georgia Hardstark?

  We are.

• 2:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Starting now. Welcome to my favorite murder.

• 2:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Karen. Karen, I'm just gonna yell your name. Karen.

• 2:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Georgia.

• 2:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Karen.

• 2:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Georgia, we started the podcast. How do you feel so far?

• 2:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck, I can't stop. Um, I'm great. How are you?

• 2:45Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know if you've ever asked me how I was like that.

• 2:47Georgia Hardstark?

  How are you?

• 2:48Karen Kilgariff?

  How are you really?

• 2:49Georgia Hardstark?

  How are you?

• 2:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's have a moment of vulnerability. I feel a lot of anxiety about, um, gosh, I'm so many things.

• 3:01Karen Kilgariff?

  You know that weird Wednesday feeling? We're recording this on Wednesday.

• 3:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 3:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Will we get up in time? You know, job stuff. I drink too much coffee all day.

• 3:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, you do.

• 3:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Am I drinking too much Diet Coke to the point where I'm killing myself?

• 3:15Georgia Hardstark?

  How many do you drink?

• 3:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Diet Coke?

• 3:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 3:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, it's only like 23 a day.

• 3:20Georgia Hardstark?

  I feel, I like that every episode now you have to admit, like you have to confess something you do that's like, because you had smoked, told us you smoked cigarettes last time.

• 3:28Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, very rarely. It's not like, I wouldn't call that, it's not a thing. It's just, that's like my secret sneak away once in a while.

• 3:35Georgia Hardstark?

  I think you're in denial.

• 3:36Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. What's your big reveal?

• 3:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, uh, what's a good one? What's a good one?

• 3:43Karen Kilgariff?

  What's a fun one?

• 3:44Georgia Hardstark?

  I have adult acne.

• 3:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 3:46Georgia Hardstark?

  That sucks.

• 3:47Karen Kilgariff?

  I can relate to that.

• 3:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I don't like that. That's about it.

• 3:52Karen Kilgariff?

  That's all you're willing to give?

• 3:54Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, my life is a fucking, I have nothing that I hide.

• 3:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I feel like that's, I think people can, um, it helps people lock in to our humanity.

• 4:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:05Karen Kilgariff?

  When we're just sitting here going, you know.

• 4:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Gross, disgusting, horrible humanity.

• 4:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Check out this hideousness.

• 4:12Georgia Hardstark?

  And they have, and make it a podcast.

• 4:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Gross. It better be a podcast. Now I'll look at it. We're getting a lot of, is very enjoyable and of course, feeding the ego. A lot of people are doing like fan art picture

• 4:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 4:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Things of us, which the thing, the thing I enjoy the most

• 4:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Is they're, they always give me a huge nose. I don't think I have a huge nose.

• 4:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Do they? You don't have a huge nose.

• 4:39Karen Kilgariff?

  I think I have a pretty buttony nose.

• 4:41Georgia Hardstark?

  You have a cute little button nose.

• 4:43Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I, thank you. I just wanted you to say.

• 4:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, I've noticed, yeah, I have a large jaw in them, which I actually have an undersized jaw, hence my Invisalign.

• 4:53Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 4:54Georgia Hardstark?

  But, thank you.

• 4:55Karen Kilgariff?

  But, you know what?

• 4:57Georgia Hardstark?

  But, thank you.

• 4:58Karen Kilgariff?

  We're the most ungrateful assholes of all time. Here, we have a couple notes.

• 5:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Can you draw us better?

• 5:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Gonna draw me. Everything I know is a lot smaller.

• 5:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen, if you want to make it onto instagram.com/MyFavoriteMurder, you gotta draw us true to life.

• 5:14Karen Kilgariff?

  There are some really good ones, um, of us, really awesome drawings.

• 5:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Where like you look at it and go, oh my God, this looks like we have a comic book.

• 5:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is super cool. So, thank you so much.

• 5:26Georgia Hardstark?

  You're fucking backpedaling so hard right now.

• 5:28Karen Kilgariff?

  I know, I'm embarrassed.

• 5:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't be. Go to, go to the Instagram and you'll see a bunch of, like, we post that shit all the time.

• 5:34Karen Kilgariff?

  We post everything that we see and find that you guys send us and we love it all. A lot of people made us, um, new logos that say the fuck word murder mystery show, which we really love and appreciate.

• 5:46Georgia Hardstark?

  That was so great.

• 5:47Karen Kilgariff?

  That was good times.

• 5:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And also, I just wanted to mention on the Twitter page, um, we got, uh, quote, "A million shoutouts from Sweden." These guys who have a podcast called The Power Meeting Podcast, sent us a tweet that said, "A million shoutouts from Sweden," which I didn't know until I read it, that that's all I've ever wanted in my life.

• 6:08Georgia Hardstark?

  That's so sweet.

• 6:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Was a million shoutouts from Sweden.

• 6:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Also, Australia loves us.

• 6:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck yeah, Australia. We were number five in Australia.

• 6:16Georgia Hardstark?

  That's amazing. That's a big, that's a big place, right?

• 6:18Karen Kilgariff?

  They must not be about accuracy down there, because I feel like everything I've ever said about Australia on this podcast has been deeply wrong.

• 6:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, we did an Australian murder once, so maybe that's why.

• 6:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's right.

• 6:28Georgia Hardstark?

  They were like, love us for doing that. Because there's some good ones there.

• 6:32Karen Kilgariff?

  There are some amazing ones. Yours was, it was the son who washed his clothes before he did anything.

• 6:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, he murdered. He went on a paper route, murdered his fucking family, blamed his dad, washed his clothes.

• 6:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Or was that New Zealand?

• 6:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck. No, I think it was Australia.

• 6:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Watch the numbers plummet.

• 6:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 6:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Why did I even bring this up?

• 6:51Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know. I brought it up.

• 6:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, OK. This is all your fault.

• 6:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, also, we got a tweet from GlitterPizza91. God bless your heart. That said, um, why not at the end of every murder, why don't you ring a gong? Which I read out of context, just read as a random tweet, and it made me laugh very hard. Then I understood. I saw a bunch of other tweets that said, what's that noise? What's that creepy spooky noise that we keep hearing? And it was, we got, Stephen set us up with these awesome.

• 7:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Mic stands.

• 7:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, they look like what you see, like, real radio people using. So we don't have to, like, touch our mics and make noise anymore. But what we did was we touched the mic stands and we were making the springs.

• 7:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Because I can't sit still.

• 7:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? Is that super loud?

• 7:39Georgia Hardstark?

  That's it. It's perfect.

• 7:40Karen Kilgariff?

  OK. Yeah, that's the sound.

• 7:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen, I have ADD, I think.

• 7:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 7:45Georgia Hardstark?

  At least what my psychiatrist tells me.

• 7:46Karen Kilgariff?

  OK.

• 7:47Georgia Hardstark?

  I can't fucking sit still. I want to move around.

• 7:49Karen Kilgariff?

  I know.

• 7:49Georgia Hardstark?

  But it's, you know, I'm going to sacrifice that for the podcast.

• 7:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, we really appreciate it.

• 7:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 7:54Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm going to speak for everybody.

• 7:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. You have a button nose.

• 7:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you. And two eyes made out of coal.

• 8:01Georgia Hardstark?

  We also had, we just ended our last T-shirt sales and we, we are giving half the money to endthebacklog.org.

• 8:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Nice. How much is that?

• 8:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Do I say? Because what if it's like, that's not, what if they're like?

• 8:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, it was just a one-month sale, right?

• 8:15Georgia Hardstark?

  We're sending two grand to endthebacklog.org.

• 8:18Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a lot of money. That's good. It's two more than they fucking had before.

• 8:22Georgia Hardstark?

  I got so freaked out when I posted, like, hey, we're, we're going to get 50% to end the backlog. Because I expected people, this was the opposite of what happened, but I expected people to be like, only 50%? You're being so, you're being so greedy. And then all these people were like, that's so incredible. I'm like, oh, OK, like, I've just been, being hard on myself.

• 8:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. I mean, I think it's just weird to be in this position where you can actually put something out, have people buy it, and then actually give money. That's like a neat, cool thing, but also, we've never done it before.

• 8:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 8:51Karen Kilgariff?

  So everything feels wrong and bad and weird.

• 8:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Is there anything else that you love right now? Anything going on in the news? We know JonBenet's brother is getting, oh, did you watch?

• 9:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 9:01Georgia Hardstark?

  You and I both looked at each other at the exact same moment.

• 9:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Watching that trailer.

• 9:05Georgia Hardstark?

  That JonBenet docu-series trailer.

• 9:09Karen Kilgariff?

  We have to watch it together. I insist you watch it.

• 9:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Can I tell you something?

• 9:13Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 9:13Georgia Hardstark?

  A magazine wants us to do a recap every night of it.

• 9:17Karen Kilgariff?

  That's awesome.

• 9:18Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. The trailer gave me frickin' chills.

• 9:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, we watched the trailer at work today.

• 9:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 9:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I love the people I work with because they're super into shit like this, too. And when it got to the part, trailer spoiler, when it got to the part where they have reconstructed the Ramses' house.

• 9:38Georgia Hardstark?

  The room by room recreated.

• 9:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Down to the detail of shit that was like leaning against the walls.

• 9:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Life changing.

• 9:45Karen Kilgariff?

  These people are going, these investigators, these, these very qualified people.

• 9:52Georgia Hardstark?

  From all walks of criminal.

• 9:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Forensicness.

• 9:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 9:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Criminality.

• 9:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Criminality.

• 9:59Karen Kilgariff?

  They're gonna be able to walk through and talk about and re-stage things that happened.

• 10:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you think they'll come to a conclusion? It clearly, in the trailer, you can tell that they're gonna, they're like, yeah, there was no, this is not an outside job, motherfuckers.

• 10:14Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, that's what they're leading you to believe.

• 10:15Georgia Hardstark?

  That's true, but, and then like, oh, they're, oh, when they played the, um, when she hung up the phone and you can hear her in the background. I still don't hear it, do you? Have you listened to that?

• 10:27Karen Kilgariff?

  You mean when they say like they reduced all the sound?

• 10:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, and they hear her say, I'm not talking to you.

• 10:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 10:33Georgia Hardstark?

  I still don't hear it, do you?

• 10:35Karen Kilgariff?

  No, but I feel like that's almost like one of those ghost investigation things where they're like, do you hear it? And then they put the subtitles and you're like, I guess I hear. If you want me to hear it, I'll hear it.

• 10:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 10:44Karen Kilgariff?

  I'll hear whatever you want.

• 10:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 10:45Karen Kilgariff?

  My thing was, um, because everybody at my job, everybody pointed out like the thing that freaked them out or that they liked the most. And mine was that when Patsy Ramsey said, I love that child, she did it with her eyes closed.

• 10:57Georgia Hardstark?

  That was the creepiest part is both of them being, both of them speaking was so fucking eerie.

• 11:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. And to camera, like basically clearly some lawyer said, you have to go out there and tell these people you didn't kill your daughter and you have to make a statement. And when Patsy Ramdy said, I didn't kill my daughter. And then she closes her eyes and goes, I love that child. And then they stay closed. Like to me that I just love those like, that means something. I don't know what it means.

• 11:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Also saying that child means something.

• 11:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Cause it's like, she's not saying my daughter JonBenet.

• 11:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 11:28Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like that child. I love that child.

• 11:31Georgia Hardstark?

  She can't take, take ownership of the thing.

• 11:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Remember, did you ever watch the show Lie to Me with Tim Roth? Where it was all about the person that read micro expressions and it was like a whole company.

• 11:41Georgia Hardstark?

  No. Oh, I know someone who worked on it that I dated, so I didn't watch it.

• 11:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Ooh. Oh, yeah. Cause you're mad.

• 11:47Georgia Hardstark?

  No, he was very nice.

• 11:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 11:49Georgia Hardstark?

  I didn't want to step on his.

• 11:50Karen Kilgariff?

  I just love that show because that, that's kind of stuff of like being able to interpret what people are really doing underneath how they mask it.

• 11:57Georgia Hardstark?

  They pointed out and they're like, would they like pause it and be like this thing right here and that thing? Oh, I love that.

• 12:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Yeah. You should watch that show. It's pretty good. I don't know if it's on anything, but.

• 12:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, well.

• 12:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, did you catch up on The Night Of? We've only got one episode left.

• 12:12Georgia Hardstark?

  I gotta say.

• 12:13Karen Kilgariff?

  You're out?

• 12:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Everyone telling me about stuff about it and talking to other people about it has made me want to watch it less.

• 12:20Karen Kilgariff?

  You're so fucking punk rock, Georgia. I swear to God, you're just like.

• 12:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Are you being mean right now?

• 12:25Karen Kilgariff?

  No. I, I mean it in that way of like, you're just like, you know what? I don't have to like it if you like it. It's a good way to be. I respect it. But I think that's how, I think that's what it is where you're like, does everybody like it? Then everybody can fuck off.

• 12:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, what everyone's telling me about it, thank you. That actually means a lot to me. Um, but what everyone's telling me about it is like, I, I don't care about the prison stuff. I want the trial stuff. And from what everyone, someone said to me, someone was like, and I'm not going to take responsibility, but I don't remember who said it was like, listen, I watched George's The New Black. I don't need to know what's going on in prison. Like, I was like, that's, so did I.

• 13:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Totally the same.

• 13:01Georgia Hardstark?

  It's totally the same. I just like. I don't, I want to know the, the way that they find out how the investigation goes, how the trial goes, stuff in prison, I don't care about.

• 13:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. I, you know what, I feel the same way because I find, and this is, you're gonna, this is gonna blow your mind, I find prison to be really depressing. So I don't want to know, like, I fear going there.

• 13:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Who hurt you as a child?

• 13:25Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't.

• 13:26Georgia Hardstark?

  A prisoner.

• 13:27Karen Kilgariff?

  It was a, a warden. Um, yeah, I don't, like, I know it's living hell and there are many, many people in this country that are there.

• 13:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 13:36Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's awful to me.

• 13:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Especially people, people are there that like, oh, it was really hard for me to watch him get taken in to get out. What's it called when you get processed in?

• 13:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 13:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Cause it's like, no one gives a shit about you.

• 13:47Karen Kilgariff?

  And you immediately are just trash.

• 13:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Like the way, you know, when you wait in line at a post office and you get to the next teller and you can tell they've had a hard day and they fucking hate everything. So you can smile and be like, hi, and they, and be nice. And so they'll give you a better experience and be happier.

• 14:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 14:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, you can't do that in prison. What am I supposed to do? I didn't learn to be polite for nothing.

• 14:07Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like, I mean, and it is like, we talk a lot, we talk a big game about like, send them away for, because we talk about these specific stories where people cut off 15 year old girls' arms and leave them to die and these horrible cases. And of course you want Larry Singleton to disappear from the planet, but the reality of a human being in a prison is a nightmare. And like, and so I'm not saying, I'm not a hypocrite or that I can't rectify those two things, but it's, yeah, watching it. What I love it that, in that show is that they're laying in, it's just really good writing. And I really like to watch good writing. It ma, it makes me feel smart.

• 14:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And again, I'll say it for the millionth time, Riz Ahmed.

• 14:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 14:53Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't.

• 14:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Someone made a, made a, I want his DNA inside me. A couple of people made it. Someone made a Valentine last, last week, I said.

• 15:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Your serial killer Valentine.

• 15:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. I said, I want his DNA inside me, meaning I want to have his baby because he's so cute that I want like that. But it just didn't sound like that.

• 15:11Karen Kilgariff?

  No, it's literally the most not cute kind of disgusting thing, but that's not what you meant.

• 15:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. You know what I don't like about, I don't like innocent people in prison. People like Larry Singleton deserve to be in prison good, have a fucking horrible time, but innocent people, oh my God, that terrifies me.

• 15:27Karen Kilgariff?

  It's horrible and it's happens and we all know what happens and it's incredibly stressful. Yeah.

• 15:31Georgia Hardstark?

  All right.

• 15:32Karen Kilgariff?

  But I like it. It's, to me, it's worth the stress and there's things that are happening and are exciting.

• 15:35Georgia Hardstark?

  I won't not try it. It does disappoint me. I mean, I don't know what happened. Maybe I'll watch the last episode. Is that okay? Can I do that?

• 15:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Hey, it's your life. Jump in, jump out. I don't know.

• 15:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Can they please bring the family back on ABC?

• 15:51Georgia Hardstark?

  That's all I asked.

• 15:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Is that all you want this Christmas?

• 15:53Georgia Hardstark?

  That's all I want for Hanukkah Christmas.

• 15:55Karen Kilgariff?

  All right. I think that's it, right? Are you in, is there anything you need to talk about? Yeah. Is this, are we now 45 minutes in? I'm first this week, right?

• 16:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, go.

• 16:05Karen Kilgariff?

  I think I am.

• 16:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Mine is short too, so take your time.

• 16:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, we are back from the intro. Karen, remember when podcasts used to just be audio and you could wear whatever you want? You could sit however you want.

• 16:21Karen Kilgariff?

  You just do you. Like, I think that's really where that saying came from is podcasts in 2016.

• 16:28Georgia Hardstark?

  It was a beautiful, glorious time of just being you. Do you think we would have started a podcast if we had known that video would have been, was like?

• 16:35Karen Kilgariff?

  I certainly, I can give you my answer before you finish the sentence. Fuck no. Are you kidding? A middle aged TV writer being like, yeah, let me get in there and make some clips and make some content for, what is it? Gen Alpha? No, thanks.

• 16:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. I mean, the one positive thing I can think of about it all is that I'm learning a lot of new makeup tips and tricks. Which I didn't think I would do so late, like late in life. I thought I'd have them all down, you know?

• 17:04Karen Kilgariff?

  But now you're what? What are you getting? What do you?

• 17:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Now my face is falling and so I have to like do different things to it.

• 17:12Karen Kilgariff?

  I meant, what, what tricks have you learned?

• 17:15Georgia Hardstark?

  That how to stop your face looking like it's fucking falling.

• 17:18Karen Kilgariff?

  What's the trick?

• 17:19Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know, bronzer? I think it's bronzer. And there's also like some kind of weird eyeshadow thing.

• 17:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 17:25Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 17:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Just layering, layers and layers of makeup. That'll do it.

• 17:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, like make shadows if they don't exist, essentially.

• 17:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 17:34Georgia Hardstark?

  No, it's been a nightmare. Like I, not a nightmare. It's great. I'm lucky, but like I've gotten all my filler dissolved because like you can see the bumps on the video. Like I can totally see everything that's wrong now.

• 17:47Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I feel like we've never been strangers to our own flaws and foibles. And then, yeah, it's just a new way of, it's a fun thing. And it's like where podcasting is going.

• 18:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 18:01Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just kind of like the option that you need to give people.

• 18:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 18:06Karen Kilgariff?

  It definitely is distracting.

• 18:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 18:09Karen Kilgariff?

  And it distracts the mind.

• 18:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 18:12Karen Kilgariff?

  When we, as we perform.

• 18:14Georgia Hardstark?

  You know us though, we, you know, we change along with the times. Like we are with it.

• 18:19Karen Kilgariff?

  That's what we like to do. Right now, this show is not on video, so I'm wearing just a towel on my head just for, just got out of the bathtub.

• 18:30Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm literally wearing a shirt that says bullshit on it really big.

• 18:35Karen Kilgariff?

  And this is what we're doing.

• 18:36Georgia Hardstark?

  That's, that's it.

• 18:38Karen Kilgariff?

  All right. Well, I like how in that, we just did a new intro. Because there wasn't that much going on in this intro. Some of our old intros are just chock full of insanity, but this mostly is like that we are so stoked to only be audio.

• 18:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 18:56Karen Kilgariff?

  And then me loving the night of and you not so much.

• 19:01Georgia Hardstark?

  No, we, that was a long running discussion or topic of discussion in this podcast.

• 19:06Karen Kilgariff?

  I think it was like a first, because I, I remember, and tell me if I'm wrong. When we first talked about The Night Of, we had both watched it,

• 19:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 19:14Karen Kilgariff?

  like unplanned, right?

• 19:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 19:16Karen Kilgariff?

  So then it was like, oh, did you see it? It was that feeling.

• 19:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, and then I lost interest. But, you know, Riz Ahmed kept doing it for you.

• 19:25Karen Kilgariff?

  It was such a good show.

• 19:26Georgia Hardstark?

  It was. All right, well, should we get into your story? And also like the reason this episode's called Namaste Sexy?

• 19:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Absolutely.

• 19:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, let's hear Karen's story from this episode 31 about the Lululemon murderer. Or, as I liked to say back then, not on purpose, Lululemon. Here we go.

• 19:51Georgia Hardstark?

  The holidays are coming, which means we'll all be spending more time away from home.

• 19:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Whether you're visiting family or doing something actually fun, you want to know your home is protected while you're away.

• 20:01Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why now is a good time to think about home security with SimpliSafe.

• 20:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Unlike traditional security systems that alert you after a break-in starts, SimpliSafe is designed to help stop intruders before they get inside. These days, you're worried about your house. You're out of town. And then something comes up and you get to look on your phone. And SimpliSafe is going to show you not only the video of like, it's a raccoon at your front door, but also that they have staff that's sitting there. They already know. And if it was something different or worse, they would have already been on it.

• 20:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I really think that's invaluable peace of mind that just like relying on your neighbors, paying attention is not going to give you. We've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer our listeners their biggest savings of the year. 70% off your new system with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/mfm.

• 20:47Karen Kilgariff?

  That's simplisafe.com/mfm. And when you order, write in MFM at checkout and it tells them we sent you. And it really helps the show.

• 20:55Georgia Hardstark?

  SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time. Goodbye.

• 20:59Karen Kilgariff?

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• 21:41Karen Kilgariff?

  use offer code MURDER to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Goodbye.

• 21:47Georgia Hardstark?

  The most annoying thing about dinner is that you have to keep making it. And every single time, you have to figure out what you're going to eat.

• 21:53Karen Kilgariff?

  It's time to take some of that work off your plate with Hungry Root.

• 21:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Hungry Root is like having your own personal shopper and nutritionist all wrapped into one. They'll take care of the weekly grocery shopping and recommend groceries and meals tailored to you. It's so nice having Hungry Root just take care of the thinking part of dinner, because I swear, like, every 10 minutes of my life is, what's for dinner? I'm so sick of it. And so I love when you can just open your fridge and be like, okay, great. We have roasted chicken with fries and broccoli from Hungry Root. Or wagyu ribeye steak with Green Goddess potatoes. Great. Let's go with that. I don't want to think about it. That sounds amazing. And it's easy.

• 22:31Karen Kilgariff?

  It's easy and it's good for you. You're not just ordering another pizza. You're gonna love Hungry Root.

• 22:36Georgia Hardstark?

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• 22:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to HungryRoot.com/MFM and use code MFM.

• 22:44Georgia Hardstark?

  That's HungryRoot.com/MFM, code MFM, to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. Goodbye.

• 22:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, mine is, I wish I had four months to research this. Because the first time I heard of this murder, I thought, oh, who cares? Not about the people, but that's not my style. Like, as we've said a million times, but like Silence of the Lambs is my ideal murder, everything situation. You've got a weird serial killer that's got a MO and a whole plan and a creepiness. Yeah.

• 23:27Georgia Hardstark?

  And it like, has always been this crazy way. It's not like he's...

• 23:32Karen Kilgariff?

  It's not a one-off, it's not a crime of passion, it's not, whatever. That's, I find that extreme criminal mind thing fascinating.

• 23:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 23:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, so when I first heard about this crime, I was like, oh, that's not, that's not my thing at all. And then, but I, it kept coming back, like you, I would see it every once in a while, looking for other stuff. And then I finally started looking into it and it is so fascinating. All right. So it's the Lululemon murder.

• 24:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yes.

• 24:01Karen Kilgariff?

  In Bethesda, Maryland.

• 24:02Georgia Hardstark?

  That is fascinating. I didn't know that.

• 24:04Karen Kilgariff?

  I know.

• 24:05Georgia Hardstark?

  That is definitely not one that I would have looked into.

• 24:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 24:11Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm excited.

• 24:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Me too. Thanks.

• 24:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 24:14Karen Kilgariff?

  So the, I first heard of it, uh, I think it was like a year ago or something. I was doing Tig Notaro's, Tig Notaro has a comedy festival every year called the Benson Ball in DC, which is where she's from. And so whoever was driving us to the theater that night, we drove down the street and we passed a Lululemon. I don't think it was the one we were driving by because Bethesda, I believe, is north of Washington DC. Um, but he brought it up and told the story.

• 24:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Love him.

• 24:42Karen Kilgariff?

  And he basically just said, oh, did you hear about that really terrible, um, crime that happened at Lululemon? Um, it was really bad, you know, uh, and it was basically one of the employees killed another one. And so I was just like, eh, you know what? I know, now we're talking yoga pants, we're talking crime of passion. I'm not interested in any of this.

• 25:03Georgia Hardstark?

  For anyone listening that doesn't know, Lululemon is a fucking high-end kind of, when I see girls wearing yoga pants with Lululemon, I'm like, oh, you spent a lot of money on yoga pants and didn't buy them a Rite Aid.

• 25:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 25:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, you're better than me.

• 25:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Crazy expensive, like, um, they're almost, it's, it's like Louis Vuitton of yoga pants, which is hilarious paradox of this is yoga.

• 25:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And they have like the, the like, uh, logo out so you can see them.

• 25:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, hell yeah.

• 25:30Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what I mean?

• 25:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 25:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Instead of hiding your shame.

• 25:34Karen Kilgariff?

  They put it out there. Right. So when I first Googled this, a couple Huffington Post articles came up. And one that I really liked is by a girl named, believe it or not, Elizabeth Licorice. And great, that's a great stage name. Oh my god, she wins. Yeah. And she's Amazing. She's all red and her skin is twisted. Uh huh. No, no, cancel it. Steven, mark it. Delete that, delete that. Steven, mark that concept. Oh, okay. So she wrote an article called Lululemon's Cult Culture. Get fit or die trying. Ooh. So this girl started working at Lululemon. That's how you pronounce it, right? Lululemon? Yeah. I don't give a fucking shit. It sounds right? It's how it's spelled and that's what I assumed and then I just Lulamon?

• 26:19Karen Kilgariff?

  I think it's Lulamon. Lu- but there's an extra Lu- Lulamon would be, there's too many Lu's. Alright. So I think it's Lululemon. Let's call it. Let's not give a shit. Okay. Alright, so I think you're right. I think you're right. It has, this girl worked there. And so she's talking about what a creepy, um, like, culture this business has. Um, which is very funny because like when I worked at the Gap in the nineties and I only worked there for a year, I really hated it. But it is this thing where they want you as a person that's getting paid shit and mostly working part-time so they don't have to give you full-time benefits and all that stuff. But they still want you to really dig into this like

• 27:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, this, um, the culture, the retail culture of like, and if you sell this, you'll get this and we have to get our numbers up here. Meanwhile, Don Fisher, the owner at the time, was making like billions of dollars. Fuck you. I hate that. It's, it's so, I can see where that was in the nineties. It's now, you know, 20 years later. And they have refined this concept. So it's like branding and marketing and, you know, lifestyle choices and it's all that. I bet it's the kind of thing where they don't call you an employee. They call you like a team member or whatever the fuck. The thigh master. Um, so this girl, yeah, this girl worked there and talked about, um, that she said, Lululemon wants you to know it's elevating the world from mediocrity to greatness and

• 27:45Karen Kilgariff?

  creating components for people to live long, healthy and fun lives. But if you dig deeper, you find about Yeah, you can't do that in fucking pants about a Target. Come on, man. No, no, no. No, you have to get really superficial to, to rise above mediocrity. But if you dig deeper, you'll find, you'll learn that about Landmark Forum. No, they don't. Yes.

• 28:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is the ultra secretive, eerily cultish educational series, which Lululemon employees are strongly encouraged to attend. Shut up. Yes. Now Lu, now I know, I have a friend who did Landmark Forum and, and is like, I believe in it. I think it's great. And I said, yeah, but isn't it a crazy pyramid scheme where you basically have to bring people in and you spent thousands of dollars? And he goes, yeah, but I just didn't do that. Like I got what I wanted and I left. And I'm like, well, you're, you're a strong willed person. Yeah. But I think it's one of those things that like, it's like EST or anything that just, it makes money off of people kind of going, this is the answer to my life. And then trying to get everyone they know into it. So. Oh, it makes me sad. So they encourage their employees to, uh, to go to the Landmark Forum, which is bizarre to me. So bizarre.

• 28:56Karen Kilgariff?

  And before you're in line for Landmark, you're bombarded with Brian Tracy motivational CDs and a book club, club that culminates with Atlas Shrugged. Oh shit.

• 29:07Karen Kilgariff?

  So it's not, it's. It's so culty. It's like, get that money and get yours and empowerment, but in this weird culty way, which also it's like, this is your job. This is your retail job. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, they, uh, she said it, all of it made walking into work feel like, um, a, she was time traveling to Salem. Because with the Lululemon creed and catechism comes a collective mentality that thrives on scapegoats and leaves you feeling worthless if you subsist on anything but spring water and kale. Once another employee sneered at me from across the floor, um, and said, the soda I happened to be enjoying would rot me from the inside out.

• 29:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Eventually we were all issued reusable acrylic cups and forbidden to drink anything but water. Oh my God, stop it. So this is, I'm, I'm just trying to paint a little bit of a picture and I really encourage, if you're slightly interested in this, to look up these articles, cause it's pretty fascinating how many directions that goes in of, um. Yeah, that sounds like a fun read. Yeah. Well, and just the intensity of a retail job. This is. Like it bums me out so much to think that what people expect.

• 30:22Georgia Hardstark?

  From you when they're not willing to give you any respect at all or?

• 30:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. Uh, every bout, and when you work there, everything about you is inventoried and measured in terms of authenticity and integrity, which sounds reasonable until you realize your yoga mats on a sweaty slippery slope, that missing your extra, that's this, I'm still reading the article, uh, missing your extracurricular kickboxing class, taking too long to pee during your break, or falling to throw, or failing to throw a kitchen party, and then she says in parentheses, don't ask.

• 30:53Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 30:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, in the fitting room means you're deficient in character and devoid of morals.

• 30:59Georgia Hardstark?

  What's a kitchen party? I'm gonna ask.

• 31:00Karen Kilgariff?

  We have to find out. But it's like, I think it's in, you know, it's secret in-house language.

• 31:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 31:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Those girls happen to just be older, sportier versions of seriously cutthroat sorority sisters.

• 31:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 31:13Karen Kilgariff?

  So that's one person's take about what it felt like to, to work there. Um, so what's kind of, to go along with that, this company's had a lot of controversies since they started. It's a Canadian company. They opened in, uh, I think, well, in 2002, to mark the opening of their second store in Vancouver, uh, they offered a free outfit to anyone who would stand naked on the street for 30 seconds.

• 31:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Are you fucking, how about, how about for people who can't afford them and are homeless, you fucking assholes?

• 31:45Karen Kilgariff?

  But like also, so it's a store that's mostly women's clothing.

• 31:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 31:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And you're basically trying to get ladies to stand around naked, so you give them their $140 yoga pants, like huh?

• 31:56Georgia Hardstark?

  You're asking them to exploit themselves.

• 31:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 31:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 32:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, that same owner, I can't find his name right now, he, in an interview with the National Post Business Magazine, which sounds very Canadian to me, but I'm not sure, he said he purposely named it Lululemon with lots of L's because, quote, "It's funny to watch Japanese people try to say..."

• 32:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Ah!

• 32:17Karen Kilgariff?

  He also once blogged that breast cancer, quote, "came into prominence in the 1990s due to all the cigarette-smoking power women who were on the pill and taking on the stress previously left to men in their working world."

• 32:28Georgia Hardstark?

  I am going to Lulu murder you, you piece of shit.

• 32:35Karen Kilgariff?

  His, sorry, that guy's name, I'm trying, oh, that guy's name is Chip Wilson and of course, um, later on, I, everybody heard about the, um, uh, they, in, I think it was 2011, oh no, sorry, 2013, they had to recall their line of Luon yoga pants because they were see-through. Oh, yeah, I remember that. They were see-through. I've seen girls' g-strings from behind yoga before. And then that same CEO, uh, when he was interviewed on Bloomberg TV about it, um, he asked, he was asked what the nature of, of the pants recall was, he said, quite frankly, some women's bodies just don't work for it. Oh.

• 33:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, it's more about the rubbing through the thighs, how much pressure there is over a period of time. You fucking dick. So he's basically saying, if you're not emaciated, you can't wear our yoga pants. And i- and if you do, it's your fault. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he's a superstar. After he said that, of course, he was asked to step down from being the CEO because it's, you know, at the time, it was 2013. So, so I'm sorry, sir, that it's not 1945 anymore. You can take that shit elsewhere. Yeah. Um, in 2007, they had a line of clothing called Vitace, S-E-A, which the company said was made from seaweed fiber. Um, and according to the tags, they said it released marine amino acids, minerals and

• 34:01Karen Kilgariff?

  vitamins into the skin upon contact with moisture. Did it stink? Reducing stress and providing anti-inflammatory, antibacterial, hydrating and detoxifying benefits. Bullshit. So the New York Times, that's exactly right, the New York Times commissioned a laboratory test. Yay. Of a shirt made from Vitace, and, um, there was no significant difference in mineral levels between the Vitace fabric and a plain cotton t-shirt. In other words, the labs found no evidence of seaweed in the Lululemon clothing at all. How are you allowed to do that? We're not done. In 2008, a mother and daughter found a hidden message in the shopping bag underneath a layer of inspirational quotes such as, friends are more important than money. Um, yeah, right.

• 34:45Karen Kilgariff?

  There was a second note, uh, that said, quote, "Some brief or quick fix instance..." Whoa, start over.

• 34:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Some brief or quick fix incidences when our minds are clear to be creative are when drunk or stoned, or just after an orgasm.

• 35:04Georgia Hardstark?

  What does that mean? Oh, okay. So they're promoting being drunk or stoned or orgasm?

• 35:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Or having an orgasm so that you can be creative.

• 35:11Georgia Hardstark?

  How did they hide that?

• 35:12Karen Kilgariff?

  This is inside a yoga pants bag. So they had this, it turned out that they had printed this up initially. People saw it and were like, what the fuck are you doing here? Well, the other, the other quotes were the athlete's high is the most long lasting, as it can last up to six hours. And there's a little difference between addicts and fanatic athletes. Both are continually searching for a way to remain in a creative state. So it was all this weird. They were very pro drugs and sex. And then a couple of people got the bags and were like, what's wrong with you guys? This is a yoga pants store.

• 35:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 35:44Karen Kilgariff?

  So they took the bags and just sewed over them with friendship is more important than money, but all you have to do is wash the bag a couple of times and then the other label came out.

• 35:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I bet those are worth some money on eBay.

• 35:56Karen Kilgariff?

  It's pretty hilarious. Uh, and also creepy, like you're getting these weird messages. Anyway.

• 36:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 36:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, and they just, the answer back when, when that happened was not an apology. They were basically like, we're about speaking our mind. We're about, um, living in this, having new ideas and new experiences. And they basically were like, yeah, we do what we want. We're trying to inspire people. So.

• 36:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 36:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, so.

• 36:23Georgia Hardstark?

  They get, yeah, I, I have, yeah. Go on.

• 36:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Just how you're saying?

• 36:28Georgia Hardstark?

  How?

• 36:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 36:29Georgia Hardstark?

  But also, but also good for them, but don't shop there. Like, I don't, they can do that. It's fine.

• 36:35Karen Kilgariff?

  You can do that. Like, here's the thing, yoga is a practice that's about connecting to yourself and connecting, you know, be, having a body mind connection so that you are more in yourself and calmer, more normal. It's not about spending money.

• 36:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 36:53Karen Kilgariff?

  It's not about being better than your sorority sister.

• 36:56Georgia Hardstark?

  But to get a mantra for transcendental meditation is fucking three grand. Like, how do you, how do they?

• 37:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, no, that's based on how much money you make. But I mean, I'm not defending it because it's, it costs money. But what I'm saying is this is a store that's creating that culture of you will spend money always and you will spend money on bullshit because we're going to lie straight to your face and say that our clothes are made of detoxifying seaweed.

• 37:19Georgia Hardstark?

  That's insane.

• 37:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Crazy.

• 37:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 37:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, so anyway, that's just a little background. All right. So. Uh, so it, the worst thing that happened to them, of course, was in 2011. On the morning of March 12th, an employee entered their store, the Bethesda, Maryland store. And she, uh, she actually went in, um, she heard something inside, I think it said. And so she went and got a guy off the street and said, you have to go in there and check. I'm supposed to open this store and there's weird noises. And the guy walked in to like a bloody scene. And it turned out that Brittany Norwood and Jana Murray were lying in the store.

• 38:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Jana was dead and Brittany was tied up, bound hands and feet. Jana had a rope around her neck and hammer knife wounds to her head. Holy shit. And she'd been repeatedly struck with a metal stand. Later on, the medical examiner found out she had 330 distinct wounds on her body. Oh my. 330. How long would that take to hit someone 330 times? And how much rage and how personal? That's like 10 minutes of hitting. It's insane overkill. Yeah. So, um, when they, when the cop touched Brittany, she flinched.

• 38:41Karen Kilgariff?

  And then she tells the story that the night before they closed the shop and then she'd gone to, um, I'm saying Jana, but I think it's Jana. Did I say Jana? I think it's Jana. So she'd gone to Jana and said, I need to go back in. I forgot something. And when they went back in, two masked, um, attackers came, like stormed into the store. Whoops, stormed the store, uh, and with guns and, um, attacked them. And Brittany said raped them and tied them up and killed Jana and left her for dead. Had she been hit at all or hurt at all? She had injuries too. Okay. Um, and her pants were slit at the crotch. It all looked very bad. So. Looked.

• 39:26Karen Kilgariff?

  It all looked very bad. Okay. So, um.

• 39:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry, I have to scroll down on my dumb thing. So, uh, of course, panic set off because this is apparently a super high-end area. Uh, like, because that's how those stores are always in, like, really. So people are freaking out, like, there's no violent crime in that area at all. Um, immediately, the cops are, uh, set up a manhunt. Um, there's a hundred and fifty thousand dollar reward for anyone with information leading to an arrest. It's like, big and huge. Um, and they start talking to people around the neighborhood, and they talk to these employees at the Apple Store, which was right next door. And these employees say that, yes, they heard two women arguing and yelling and some weird thumping and fighting

• 40:14Karen Kilgariff?

  noises the night before, but they never called 911.

• 40:19Georgia Hardstark?

  How do you?

• 40:21Karen Kilgariff?

  They didn't get asked that question in court, which of course, because it's like, ultimately, it's not about them and what they did or didn't do.

• 40:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 40:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, aside from, I'm sure they struggle with it, because it's hideous, but, um, yeah, they didn't. And then somebody included in one of these articles that I read, there's this really awesome thing about, um, how when you are, when you have a phone or a computer or something that distracts you, you are, you are like, some percentage I won't make up, and I'll just be honest that I don't know it, uh, but it's like a very high percentage, uh, less likely to get involved with anything happening around you.

• 40:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 40:56Karen Kilgariff?

  So they're in an Apple Store, so it was probably like, weird noise, weird noise, could go back to playing Yahtzee with friends, or whatever, on your phone.

• 41:04Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know if I would, like, how, would you get involved? It just so depends on the situation. You can't expect people to be being, you know, getting murdered.

• 41:13Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 41:14Georgia Hardstark?

  If you hear a fight, you're not like, I'm gonna go make sure no one's getting murdered.

• 41:17Karen Kilgariff?

  No, not at all. And especially in that area.

• 41:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 41:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, no, it's a weird thing. I'm sure they'd never had any experience like that.

• 41:24Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 41:25Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's not, they probably were like, oh no, those girls are fighting next door at the end. That's, that's what I thought. It's just unfortunate, because even just a call to say, maybe you should just go check. I think, it's that thing of like, people aren't willing to just risk being wrong, which is, which is sad.

• 41:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Or not being able to read a situation. Correctly.

• 41:45Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, the way a couple of these articles talked about it, there was like extended thumping and fight sounds and

• 41:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah, you should have checked that out.

• 41:54Karen Kilgariff?

  At one per, at one point, they heard a woman scream, oh, please, God, help me.

• 41:57Georgia Hardstark?

  What the, okay, no, you should have fucking gone over there.

• 42:00Karen Kilgariff?

  I guess I buried the lead on that one. I should have brought that up earlier.

• 42:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. All right. So, yeah, go on.

• 42:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. So even if you're not sure

• 42:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 42:07Karen Kilgariff?

  roll the dice. Um, okay, so, so from that, they realize they, that these employees only heard two women the entire time. They don't, they don't hear anything about men's voices. They don't hear anything else. So they're suspicious. Also, there's this really awesome statistic I found that I know the exact number for. According to the Bureau of the Justice of Statistics, no, no, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, only 15% of homicides are committed by someone who doesn't know the victim.

• 42:41Georgia Hardstark?

  15%?

• 42:42Karen Kilgariff?

  15%.

• 42:44Georgia Hardstark?

  That's crazy.

• 42:45Karen Kilgariff?

  So in some ways, relax.

• 42:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 42:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Because it's very, very small.

• 42:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Except don't, because your fucking family is gonna murder you.

• 42:52Karen Kilgariff?

  It's gonna be your husband with that milkshake.

• 42:54Georgia Hardstark?

  I wonder if that's the reason why we're so fascinated with stranger murders.

• 43:00Karen Kilgariff?

  What? The cord?

• 43:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Oh, I think you're, are you hitting it with her, really? Okay. The, I wonder if that's why we're so fascinated about stranger murders is because they're so rare.

• 43:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 43:08Georgia Hardstark?

  And so they sound like there are a lot more of them, but in actuality, it's

• 43:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, well, everyone talks about the ones that happen because they're so crazy and weird.

• 43:17Georgia Hardstark?

  So it seems like they're more likely. That's really interesting.

• 43:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. So the cops know this. I mean, the cops, the cops, they say that all the time on like 2020 or whatever, where it's like you always look to

• 43:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 43:27Karen Kilgariff?

  the husband, the wife, the friends, the people that they know. So, um, one of the big breaks in the case, uh, was that they looked in Jana, Jana's car and

• 43:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Jana's the murder victim?

• 43:43Karen Kilgariff?

  She's the victim.

• 43:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 43:47Karen Kilgariff?

  So they process her car and they find Brittany, Brittany's DNA in the car. And then they ask Brittany, have you ever been in Jana's car? And she said, no.

• 43:59Georgia Hardstark?

  That, man, I love when they fucking trap someone like that. Or if you had just said, yes.

• 44:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 44:04Georgia Hardstark?

  You would not have been a suspect.

• 44:06Karen Kilgariff?

  But they never do because they were in the car, so they're trying to cover. They think that lie is gonna get them out of. And yeah, that's, that's the greatest.

• 44:15Georgia Hardstark?

  I love that.

• 44:16Karen Kilgariff?

  So, um, also they realized they had had all the tests processed and Brittany had said that they were both raped by these masked men. But when the tests came back, they, there was no sign of rape.

• 44:30Georgia Hardstark?

  On either of them.

• 44:31Karen Kilgariff?

  There was no, you know, um, evidence of it. Yeah, there was all of the normal things that they find.

• 44:37Georgia Hardstark?

  No penetration, no.

• 44:38Karen Kilgariff?

  On either of them.

• 44:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 44:40Karen Kilgariff?

  And, um, uh, also her wounds were few and superficial.

• 44:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Yeah, if you're gonna hit someone thirty some, three hundred something times and the other person just gets a little.

• 44:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's crazy amounts. And also because then that's like, there's some crime of passion taking place.

• 44:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 44:59Karen Kilgariff?

  So.

• 45:00Georgia Hardstark?

  There is an intended victim.

• 45:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, exactly.

• 45:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 45:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, and also then they realize the, for the angles, they start studying the angles of the, of the wounds, clearly self inflicted. And she tied herself up. It was all, they start looking back on it staged.

• 45:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 45:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Now there were, in the blood, there were two shoe prints. Jana's shoe prints were not in the blood. Uh, Brittany's shoe prints were in the blood and a size fourteen men, man's shoe, one, uh, set of men's shoes were in the blood. So not two, like.

• 45:31Georgia Hardstark?

  So she grabbed some shoes off the fucking shelf.

• 45:33Karen Kilgariff?

  That's exactly right.

• 45:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Son of a bitch.

• 45:35Karen Kilgariff?

  And walked around through as if a man was walking through.

• 45:39Georgia Hardstark?

  What an idiot that she didn't grab both the fucking, oh, because it's like the display pair.

• 45:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 45:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 45:46Karen Kilgariff?

  So.

• 45:46Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like brilliant and so stupid at the same time.

• 45:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, it's that thing of like, you are, you can't cover up a murder.

• 45:54Georgia Hardstark?

  You can't.

• 45:54Karen Kilgariff?

  You just can't.

• 45:55Georgia Hardstark?

  You're not as smart as you think you are.

• 45:57Karen Kilgariff?

  You can't. And also cops have seen it a million times, like they know what they're looking at and, and what looks weird and what doesn't. So.

• 46:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Ultimately, they basically get her to start talking. And it turns out, oh, six days after the crime actually happened, it was the same night of Jana's memorial. They arrest Brittany Norwood for first degree murder. And so basically, they figure out that that that day,

• 46:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Brittany had been caught shoplifting a pair of yoga pants by Jana. And that's what caused, that was the inciting incident. Obviously, much more was going on for her to get stabbed over 300 times. And they said she used five different weapons, all found within the store. Was, oh, my God. Yeah. And there was a blood trail that showed how Jana tried to escape through the back door. And she had 107 defensive wounds. Oh, my God. Uh, so the, and they said that that was the most that medical examiner had ever seen on a victim. Wow.

• 47:13Karen Kilgariff?

  So this was an, a crazy and horrible and extended period of time where this murder happened. Now, here's the creepiest part to me is Brittany goes, clearly just goes fucking berserk, snaps. She gets caught, now she's in that, she's out of this system. She is, she's the worst of the worst. If you're bad for drinking Diet Coke on the floor, imagine what getting caught shoplifting would be like in that culture at that store.

• 47:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, I don't think, uh, it was probably very easy because Brittany was black. And I don't know what the percentages were of people who were black that worked at Lululemon. But I bet that was an element in it. Yeah. I'm sure that brought, there was something that brought to the table. There was other articles that talked about how she had stalked her boyfriend. I think she had, that she was definitely maybe a borderline personality. She had definitely had some issues, whatever. Um, but.

• 48:16Karen Kilgariff?

  This girl viciously and insanely murders her coworker and then lays down in blood for hours and hours until she gets discovered.

• 48:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Crazy.

• 48:28Karen Kilgariff?

  In the same room as a dead body. I mean, that's the creepy level of that. Oh, and also she went and moved because when she called Jana back to let her back into the store, Jana was double parked. So she had to go get into her car and she went and parked it down like a couple of blocks away. And that's how she got they got that DNA of hers in there. So essentially, she had 10 hours to stage and plan this, this crime and, and figure it all out. So anyway, she was convicted in an hour. They tried to say that she was insane and they were like, no, sorry, this was insanely premeditated.

• 49:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 49:14Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, that's bad phrasing. This was very premeditated and obviously.

• 49:19Georgia Hardstark?

  She tried to cover it up so she knew.

• 49:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Yes, exactly. And

• 49:28Karen Kilgariff?

  I guess, oh, so she was, she got a life sentence and with no possibility of parole. So it turned out that the Lululemon murder was much more fascinating than I could ever imagine it to be.

• 49:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I thought she just like went in there and shot her. Like, I didn't even know any of the details.

• 49:48Karen Kilgariff?

  No, it was grisly as hell.

• 49:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 49:50Karen Kilgariff?

  And just that the element, like the, the pressury, sales, sorority sister element of it is fascinating to me. Somebody, there's a guy that wrote a book. His name's David Morse and it's called the, this is gonna be wrong. I want to say it's called the yoga pants murder, but that's not gonna be right. The yoga store murder.

• 50:11Georgia Hardstark?

  There we go.

• 50:11Karen Kilgariff?

  So close.

• 50:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Ooh, are there, are there crime scene photos?

• 50:14Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm sure there are, but, but.

• 50:15Georgia Hardstark?

  I want to see them without the body. So I'm not that fucked up.

• 50:18Karen Kilgariff?

  They wanted to show the crime scene photos when they were trying to pick the jury and they, the. I think, was it when they were trying to pick the jury? I guess that doesn't really make sense. But they were basically trying to introduce these photos and like the defense fought it because they're so awful. Her skull was cracked, her spine was severed. Oh, I don't want to see that. I mean, it's terrible. I mean, you, you know, she was stabbed over 300 times. That's insane. It's horrifying. Holy shit. Yeah. So there you go. Namaste. Namaste. Namaste, Karen. Namaste, everybody. Should we end on an om? Um, well, om, wow. Fuck. All right.

• 51:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Oof, that's a gruesome and sad one.

• 51:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Horrible.

• 51:11Georgia Hardstark?

  We're back. Karen, do you have any updates?

• 51:14Karen Kilgariff?

  No case updates. Basically, it's all status quo. Although, we got to the bottom of kitchen parties. So that was the thing that we talked about. It was a Lululemon, kind of like Ali Rally style, let's all get together, you know, like some sort of retail bullshit cult thing that they make up to make it seem interesting. And then you get people to, whatever.

• 51:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Who come, who don't have to work that day, but like they still have to come to the fucking...

• 51:41Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no, this was a different, this was almost like a little bit of a manipulation of the customers. So essentially, there were these islands near the fitting rooms and the employees were expected to just kind of hang out there and then stage casual conversations, like you're in the kitchen, quote unquote, and basically talking about yoga pants or like, oh, you need that, I can actually recommend you this great jacket or whatever.

• 52:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Leave me alone. I mean, as someone who's done that job before.

• 52:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 52:12Georgia Hardstark?

  At Funky Diva in, back in 1999, like, I know how it goes. And I hated every minute of doing it, and I hate every minute of it being done to me.

• 52:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. The retail PTSD of like, being forced to engage.

• 52:29Karen Kilgariff?

  When people don't like it and are rude to you actively.

• 52:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 52:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Really sucks. It's like, if you're the greeter at the Gap this day, I wonder if they still do greeters? I don't think they do.

• 52:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I don't think so. But I bet you better fucking get said hi to, though, like if you're a secret shopper for them.

• 52:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, like you have to eyes up, but you don't have to stand there like we used to have to literally stand there and be like, socks are on sale today and blah, blah, blah. Like that whole thing where you're like having this hip interaction with the person you're about to buy jeans from is just like, who cares?

• 53:01Georgia Hardstark?

  No one needs help finding anything unless it's like a movie and they're like on a mission to get this one thing. No one needs help finding anything. Can I help you find anything today? No.

• 53:11Karen Kilgariff?

  In this day and age, doesn't the average customer really know their rights in the way of like they're gonna find you and let you know the kind of help they need? Like, no one's shy anymore about. And that's, I'm gonna say it again, but that's my big complaint about Sephora. I just wanna go and touch all the eyeshadows and look at all the samples. I don't wanna, I don't want someone to help me. Cause oftentimes they're like, oh, you need that? Well, then come over here. And I'm like, no, I'm over, I'm over here. I wanna be in this area.

• 53:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 53:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna be sped through this. Yeah.

• 53:42Georgia Hardstark?

  No, totally. That's a, that's a long zen journey that you wanna take when you're there.

• 53:49Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. Hot bath of a Sephora. Anyway, also, the old founder, or I guess the original founder who's no longer involved in the business of Lululemon is a man named Chip Wilson who has just been spouting pretty nasty rhetoric for years. And so much so that the company had to come forward and say that his views don't represent, represent the company's values.

• 54:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 54:13Karen Kilgariff?

  And that they are committed to creating an inclusive environment in that company. So hopefully that's true and hopefully that actual work is getting done. But, and also, you know, the information I was looking for that could have been really cool to like, unveil right now is that they also changed their internal practices and they don't make everything feel like this weird club that you're trying to get into while you have a retail job.

• 54:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 54:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Which was one of the things we talked about of like what the pressures and what this job must have felt like.

• 54:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 54:45Karen Kilgariff?

  To result in this horrifying murder. But still, there's no way to get that information unless we had a secret employee, which we don't. It'd be so cool.

• 54:54Georgia Hardstark?

  We should have done that.

• 54:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Although they no longer ask their employees to pursue shoplifters, which is insane that they ever did that. Never do that.

• 55:04Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 55:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Never do that. Okay, now it's time for Georgia's story about Tent Girl and the Dough Network.

• 55:13Georgia Hardstark?

  The holidays are coming, which means we'll all be spending more time away from home.

• 55:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Whether you're visiting family or doing something actually fun, you want to know your home is protected while you're away.

• 55:23Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why now is a good time to think about home security with SimpliSafe.

• 55:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Unlike traditional security systems that alert you after a break-in starts, SimpliSafe is designed to help stop intruders before they get inside. These days, you're worried about your house, you're out of town, and then something comes up and you get to look on your phone, and SimpliSafe is going to show you not only the video of like, it's a raccoon at your front door, but also that they have staff that's sitting there, they already know. And if it was something different or worse, they would have already been on it.

• 55:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I really think that's invaluable peace of mind, that just like relying on your neighbors, paying attention is not going to give you. We've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer our listeners their biggest savings of the year. 70% off your new system with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/mfm.

• 56:09Karen Kilgariff?

  That's simplisafe.com/mfm. And when you order, write in MFM at checkout and it tells them we sent you, and it really helps the show.

• 56:17Georgia Hardstark?

  SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time.

• 56:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. The most annoying thing about dinner is that you have to keep making it.

• 56:24Georgia Hardstark?

  And every single time, you have to figure out what you're going to eat.

• 56:27Karen Kilgariff?

  It's time to take some of that work off your plate with Hungry Root.

• 56:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Hungry Root is like having your own personal shopper and nutritionist all wrapped into one. They'll take care of the weekly grocery shopping and recommend groceries and meals tailored to you. It's so nice having Hungry Root just take care of the thinking part of dinner, because I swear, like every 10 minutes of my life is what's for dinner? I'm so sick of it. And so I love when you can just open your fridge and be like, okay, great. We have roasted chicken with fries and broccoli from Hungry Root. Or Wagyu ribeye steak with green goddess potatoes. Great, let's go with that. I don't want to think about it. That sounds amazing, and it's easy.

• 57:05Karen Kilgariff?

  It's easy and it's good for you. You're not just ordering another pizza. You're gonna love Hungry Root.

• 57:10Georgia Hardstark?

  For a love at a time, get 40% off your first order, plus get a free item in every box for life.

• 57:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to hungryroot.com/mfm and use code MFM.

• 57:18Georgia Hardstark?

  That's hungryroot.com/mfm, code MFM, to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life.

• 57:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Some people know exactly what car they want before they start shopping.

• 57:31Georgia Hardstark?

  And for the rest of us, there's cars.com.

• 57:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Cars.com helps take some of the guesswork out of car shopping with expert reviews, guides, recommendations, and side-by-side comparisons to help narrow down your options.

• 57:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Once you know what you're looking for, you can search for the features that actually matter to you, like blind spot monitoring, smartphone integration, or automatic emergency braking.

• 57:52Karen Kilgariff?

  You can also shop based on your budget with financing tools that show real rates and monthly payments, so you can have a clearer idea of what you can afford.

• 58:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Their deal ratings tags let you see how the price compares with similar vehicles, so you can feel more confident about buying your car.

• 58:06Karen Kilgariff?

  From research to shopping to finding the right fit, cars.com gives you what you need to choose your next car confidently.

• 58:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Start your search at cars.com.

• 58:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 58:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 58:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Ready for mine?

• 58:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 58:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Mine is about the tent girl and the doe network.

• 58:28Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 58:28Georgia Hardstark?

  You know them?

• 58:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Doe as in deer?

• 58:30Georgia Hardstark?

  No, D-O-E as in like Jane Doe.

• 58:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, oh, oh.

• 58:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Like doe, a doe, a dead body, a female dead body. Oh, my God, I had to.

• 58:40Karen Kilgariff?

  You did it.

• 58:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Did it.

• 58:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Did it.

• 58:42Georgia Hardstark?

  All right. So on May 17, 1968, a well digger named Wilbur Riddle was killing time between jobs picking up glass insulators on a dirt road. It was just outside Lexington, Kentucky. So he's scavenging.

• 58:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Sure.

• 59:01Georgia Hardstark?

  He comes across a large, green tarpaulin, and that was commonly used by carnival workers to store the big, like, big top tents in. And inside, he finds the nude, decomposing body of a young woman. She appeared to be in her teens, and she had been dead for months.

• 59:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Ugh.

• 59:21Georgia Hardstark?

  They couldn't figure out her exact cause of death, but it was thought that she'd been knocked out with a blow to the head. And then tied up inside the bag to slowly suffocate. And the way they knew this is that her nails were worn down and broken. Oh, no. As if she'd been trying to escape. Nightmare. Yes. Mm hmm. Um, she couldn't be identified and became known as the tent girl. Sorry, is sixty eight, you said? Yeah. Okay. It became a local legend and her grave had a headstone that had, that they had put the, a sketch of the, with the police had sketched what she might have looked like. And it said, tent girl found May seventeenth, nineteen sixty eight on highway, US Highway twenty five north,

• 1:00:06Georgia Hardstark?

  died about April, like all these weird statistics about her. Unidentified. So it was a place where local teens would visit to cause trouble and to scare each other. And like on Halloween, you had night, you had to go touch the gravestone and run away and stuff. Um, and so a couple of decades later, there's a teenager who moves into town named Todd Matthews. And he hears about the story of tent girl by a girl he's got a crush on. Nine months later, he and this girl get married. And it turns out her name is Lori Riddle. Her father was Wilbur Riddle, who found tent girl. Ooh. So Todd Matthews becomes obsessed with the case.

• 1:00:49Georgia Hardstark?

  And for decades, he's determined to find out the true identity of tent girl. Um, Todd's two siblings had died at birth. Mm hmm. And it really stuck with him. And so he says that he felt like tent girl had become his sibling until he could find her real family. Just so fucking sweet. I might cry. So when the internet's created, he saves up enough money for, he like works low income job, saves up enough money to buy a computer. And then he trolls chat rooms and search engines and missing personal listings, searching for details that matched tent girl. And he creates a website devoted to finding her identity.

• 1:01:31Georgia Hardstark?

  And this is before any of like web sleuthing shit is going on. Like in his mind, he's just going to email as many people as possible till he finds out who this missing person is. So, cut to the night, January 1998. And Todd has been online for hours, looking at random stuff when he comes across a classified ad from a woman who's searching for her missing 24-year-old sister, Barbara Ann Hackman Taylor. He, Todd sees the three words Lexington, 1967, missing, and he knows it's her immediately. So in December 1967, 24-year-old Barbara Ann Hackman was a mother and a waitress.

• 1:02:15Georgia Hardstark?

  She had married young and then mysteriously disappeared. They thought it was a teenager originally, when they found the body, but she was actually 24, which is just another reason like why cops, like it wouldn't have taken someone amateur to find this person, because you're looking for a teenager, you're not gonna find someone with totally different statistics.

• 1:02:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Right, right.

• 1:02:35Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:02:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. They won't fall into that category for you.

• 1:02:39Georgia Hardstark?

  So Matthews arranges to have tent girl's body exhumed. And in April 1998, DNA tests prove that Barbara Ann Hackman is tent girl.

• 1:02:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 1:02:50Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. The family chooses to have Barbara's remains kept in the original spot with the original headstone. They just added a little stone underneath with her real name, nickname, date of birth, presumed date of death, and the inscription, "Loving mother, grandmother, and sister."

• 1:03:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:03:07Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 1:03:08Karen Kilgariff?

  She was a grandmother at 24?

• 1:03:10Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I think she had her baby, her daughter, and now she's a grandmother.

• 1:03:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Got it.

• 1:03:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. All right. So, he died before tent girl was identified, but Barbara's husband, George Earl Taylor, never filed a missing persons report, and he told Barbara's family that she had left him for another man.

• 1:03:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-mm.

• 1:03:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. All right. So you know how she was fucking found in a tarpaulin? Am I saying that right? That was commonly, commonly used by carnival workers to store big tents? Guess what George's job was?

• 1:03:45Karen Kilgariff?

  He was an accountant. Was he an accountant? Was he, did he work at REI?

• 1:03:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Carnival worker.

• 1:03:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes. He was a carnival worker. He died of cancer in October 1987 and I hope he rots in hell.

• 1:04:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Good.

• 1:04:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Good.

• 1:04:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Glad.

• 1:04:06Karen Kilgariff?

  You fuck yourself.

• 1:04:06Georgia Hardstark?

  You fuck yourself. Uh, isn't that crazy? Like, what is, what are, there's nothing besides like, besides fingerprints that could have like, made it more of a like, here's who done it.

• 1:04:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. I mean, did they, well.

• 1:04:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Karen, don't question.

• 1:04:22Karen Kilgariff?

  I won't. And keep that.

• 1:04:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Did they play, did they like tie it back to the carnival he was working at? And did he maybe?

• 1:04:27Karen Kilgariff?

  No, I just meant like, at the time when they found her, did they take that tarpulin, or whatever it's called, evidence and then go interview some carnival workers?

• 1:04:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, see what local carnival was in town?

• 1:04:38Karen Kilgariff?

  And then it, could that be the third season of True Detective? This story of like, the carnies?

• 1:04:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Those are great questions. I was just excited that they had put that together, but gosh, I wish they had done that before he died of cancer.

• 1:04:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, that's a good point.

• 1:04:50Karen Kilgariff?

  But I mean, you know.

• 1:04:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, shit.

• 1:04:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:04:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Can I do a different story?

• 1:04:53Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 1:04:54Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm kidding. Alright, so, so the ending of this is pretty amazing, but Todd Matthews goes on to help create the Doe Network, which I'm obsessed with. It's an online database containing thousands of profiles for unidentified Does.

• 1:05:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Shit.

• 1:05:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Jane and John Does and baby Does. And amateur sleuths try to connect unidentified bodies with missing people.

• 1:05:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Amazing.

• 1:05:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, people who are like nurses and fucking janitors and all these crazy people who like, are doing this for free in their free time, just sit there and try to find matching characteristics to get these people found and get them, you know.

• 1:05:34Karen Kilgariff?

  So is it like web sleuthing where anyone can do it?

• 1:05:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:38Karen Kilgariff?

  And just enter the information?

• 1:05:39Georgia Hardstark?

  They started, they started regulating it because I think that a lot of, um, a lot of police were getting annoyed with all the calls they were getting like, I think it's this person, I think it's that person. So there's like, for each, each town or each city, there's, there's like a main person that, and it has to go through like a crazy vetting process now. So I feel like, I think this missing person is this unidentified body. They have to like, it has to be checked out by like, a bunch of people who have been certified by the Doe Network to do that. Um, but yeah, you can kind of just like. Look for sh- it's almost like that game where you, what was the memory one? Where you turn over a face and you turn it back over and you have to remember where the face is.

• 1:06:16Karen Kilgariff?

  It's called memory.

• 1:06:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. So he also co-founded NAMUs. It's, I think it's supposed to be NAMUs, but there's no E. The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System. And another thing they do is they, they, they hire, or they, people who, who, who are, um, who draw portraits and stuff just for free, like can, will take a, an, a dead body and sketch out what the face would look like, or take a missing person and sketch out what their face would look like now.

• 1:06:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:06:45Georgia Hardstark?

  And they all do it for free.

• 1:06:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 1:06:47Georgia Hardstark?

  It's pretty amazing. Next place where we give money for the T-shirts? I don't know.

• 1:06:51Karen Kilgariff?

  We can discuss it.

• 1:06:52Georgia Hardstark?

  We can. All right, so as of 2007, I couldn't find any more recent statistics. There's approximately 40,000 unidentified human remains stowed in back rooms of morgues, buried before they're identified, and buried in unmarked graves across the country.

• 1:07:07Karen Kilgariff?

  What's that number?

• 1:07:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Forty thousand.

• 1:07:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Shit.

• 1:07:10Georgia Hardstark?

  And that's 2007. The National Crime Information Center records nearly 90,000 missing people at any given time. So 40,000 of those unmarked, unidentified people, you know, their websites list 70 successful identity resolutions that the site has assisted with.

• 1:07:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's nice.

• 1:07:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Thirty-six had occurred within the first five years. And Tent Girl was the first case to be identified by use of the internet.

• 1:07:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 1:07:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Isn't that incredible? Todd Matthews, he just like was an obsessive compulsive with this case. And because of that, so many families have been able to find out what happened to their loved ones. And I'm so fascinated with those stories of like, she left home one day and, you know, we thought we'd hear from her again and we didn't, and we don't know if she's alive or not. She might've just fucking moved on and hated her dad and, you know.

• 1:08:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 1:08:05Georgia Hardstark?

  But then they find, they're like, you know, by the side of the road, this person with this crazy tattoo was found. And why can't we identify this person? And so they put all this stuff in the, in the thing and.

• 1:08:15Karen Kilgariff?

  That's very cool.

• 1:08:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, Tent Girl. There's a photo of her, it looks like a lot like the drawing.

• 1:08:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Sad, right?

• 1:08:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, yeah, but it's like the tragedy that Something Good came out of.

• 1:08:28Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 1:08:29Karen Kilgariff?

  It's very cool.

• 1:08:30Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 1:08:31Karen Kilgariff?

  And also it's nice, that idea that like, yeah, that's if you have, it's just so nice for the families. Like that, that, that idea of just not knowing is so torturous.

• 1:08:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And I've kind of been wanting to do, I've been thinking a lot lately about like, what can I, how can I volunteer my time in some way that we're, this true crime thing we're doing? And I'm like, you know, do I work for, do I go volunteer for Women's Shelter? Or something like that? And this, it's like, I feel like that's what these people are doing is they're like, for no, they're not making any money. They have jobs. They don't need them. They just want to help find, it's just they're really into these crazy puzzles and piecing these things together and they just do it.

• 1:09:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. And if you have that specific ability of like, you can draw, you know, what they,

• 1:09:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:15Karen Kilgariff?

  a picture of what they last looked like or whatever. It's like everybody pitching in what their specific talent is.

• 1:09:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's very cool.

• 1:09:22Georgia Hardstark?

  I like that. So maybe I'll, maybe I'll do something like that. And I can't draw, but I can look at tattoos and remember if they were found on dead bodies or not.

• 1:09:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Do it.

• 1:09:31Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm really good at that.

• 1:09:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Remembering.

• 1:09:34Georgia Hardstark?

  No. Um, yeah.

• 1:09:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Nice.

• 1:09:39Georgia Hardstark?

  So that was a short one, but I thought it was important.

• 1:09:41Karen Kilgariff?

  No, that was cool. I liked that it, like, it's good information.

• 1:09:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:45Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a good one.

• 1:09:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 1:09:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I guess that's it.

• 1:09:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Thank you for, um, listening. Thank you so much. Can you guys, if you rate, review and subscribe on iTunes, that helps us a lot and we appreciate it. And gosh, it's nice having you guys listen in this podcast. Also Elvis is sitting right in front of Stephen's face because Stephen gave him a cookie last time.

• 1:10:06Karen Kilgariff?

  I like that you just said, gosh, gosh, it's nice you listen, everybody.

• 1:10:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Gee whiz. Gee whiz.

• 1:10:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Gee whillikers, everybody. Thank you.

• 1:10:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Thanks. Um.

• 1:10:16Karen Kilgariff?

  And you know what? Stay sexy.

• 1:10:17Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get mortared. Elvis, you want a cookie? Want a cookie?

• 1:10:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoa.

• 1:10:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Bye.

• 1:10:31Karen Kilgariff?

  We're back. Georgia, are there updates for this case?

• 1:10:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, there are updates. This is one of those cases. I love that there is this tragic story and something beautiful comes out of it because people, because of humans and humanity and, you know, caring about causes that have nothing to do with you and just personalizing them. So I love this story and I love Todd Matthews. And unfortunately, he passed away earlier this year. He was only 53. And his contributions to the cyber detective community live on through the Doe Network and NamUs. And there's an article you can check out if you want on Vice called "The Pioneering Cyber Detective Who Cracked A 30-Year-Old Cold Case" by Sammy Carmella that I recommend. And together, the Doe Network and NamUs have

• 1:11:20Georgia Hardstark?

  resolved over 65,000 missing unidentified and unclaimed persons cases.

• 1:11:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Amazing.

• 1:11:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is incredible. So get involved in that if you're good at sleuthing. I'm not.

• 1:11:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. If you're a person that's interested in true crime, that is an incredible way to actually, you know, do something constructive with this interest and interact and help people out.

• 1:11:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, yeah, like I, when I had a boring desk job and didn't do anything, I wish I had known about this. Instead, I was just blogging.

• 1:11:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:47Georgia Hardstark?

  So that doesn't feel as good as like helping find missing people.

• 1:11:51Karen Kilgariff?

  You were helping other funky divas in your area.

• 1:11:55Georgia Hardstark?

  That's all. That's my fucking goal in life and my creed, my creed and my motto.

• 1:12:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And here's your other motto is Namaste Sexy, which was the title of this episode.

• 1:12:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So no more number puns. Thank God.

• 1:12:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:12:07Georgia Hardstark?

  And so we're naming this episode today based on something we said in the episode. Would it be trailer spoiler, which Karen jokes, she's going to spoil the trailer of the new JonBenet Ramsey docu-series. Don't spoil, you can't even fucking spoil a trailer these days.

• 1:12:22Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. And then Georgia said, gosh, it's nice. That's so funny. Gosh, it's nice. Cause we were thanking listeners for listening to the show. And she said, gosh, it's nice having you guys listen. Was that sarcastic?

• 1:12:34Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I hear my, gosh, is definitely something that has, you know, regularly come out of my mouth.

• 1:12:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Is that, is that your grandma?

• 1:12:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Who says that? I don't know. I think it's like quaint and old timey and I like it like that.

• 1:12:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it is. It's nice.

• 1:12:48Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't care about taking God's name in vain. So why would I, gosh, it's nice.

• 1:12:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Gosh.

• 1:12:52Georgia Hardstark?

  I guess, you know what? It's like a humbled thing. I'm just humbled. Gosh, golly.

• 1:12:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Golly gee.

• 1:13:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Golly gee.

• 1:13:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Well.

• 1:13:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, gosh, guys, thanks so much for listening.

• 1:13:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Gosh, I'd pick that title for the show title because I love it. It's nice.

• 1:13:08Georgia Hardstark?

  It's nice and so are you guys and

• 1:13:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Gosh.

• 1:13:11Georgia Hardstark?

  I appreciate you still. Gosh.

• 1:13:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Gosh, if I was listening right now, I'd turn this off. Stay sexy.

• 1:13:18Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 1:13:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

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