Pod Insights My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark 537 - Live at the Paramount Theatre (Seattle Night 2) About this episode Live at Seattle’s Paramount Theatre, Georgia covers the infamous McDonald siblings and Karen tells the story of the “DB Tuber” Brinks robbery.
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Transcript 17,603 words · 7 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Speaker 00 This is exactly right.
0:06 Speaker 01 In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way. When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, the rubber hits the road. And what the feds uncover is a complex scheme of staged wrecks, financial fraud, and a pair of conspiring lovers behind it. This is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences. Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
0:42 Georgia Hardstark? There are plenty of things that keep you up at night. Your sleep tracker shouldn't be one of them.
0:46 Karen Kilgariff? You know that feeling, laying in bed, staring at the ceiling, counting all the times you said something weird.
0:52 Georgia Hardstark? And then you wake up and check your sleep score. Now you have to start your day knowing that you failed at sleeping.
0:57 Karen Kilgariff? Hatch Sleep Clock does it differently.
0:59 Georgia Hardstark? It tracks your sleep from your nightstand. No ring, wristband, or judgmental score waiting for you in the morning.
1:05 Karen Kilgariff? Instead, you'll get personalized insights to understand your sleep and recommendations to build a routine you'll love night after night.
1:11 Georgia Hardstark? Fall asleep to the next chapter of an audiobook like The Odyssey, a nervous system reset meditation, or a calming sound bath.
1:18 Karen Kilgariff? Then you can find out which gives you 20 more minutes of deep sleep each night.
1:22 Georgia Hardstark? Hatch Sleep Clock.
1:23 Karen Kilgariff? The sleep tracker designed to get you to sleep. Available now on hatch.co.
1:27 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
2:14 Karen Kilgariff? We went low and then we went up really high.
2:16 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah?
2:17 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
2:18 Georgia Hardstark? Oh my, you may be see this.
2:20 Karen Kilgariff? Thank you so much.
2:23 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you. Wow, thanks you guys.
2:28 Georgia Hardstark? Second night, who was here last night, anyone? Nobody?
2:31 Karen Kilgariff? Oh. I was.
2:33 Georgia Hardstark? You were?
2:34 Karen Kilgariff? Oh my god, I had the best time. So cool.
2:38 Georgia Hardstark? It was so fun. And if you paid attention last time, last night, my dress was starting to rip in the back. And guess what? It's gotten bigger.
2:47 Karen Kilgariff? There it is.
2:50 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, I feel so much better.
2:53 Karen Kilgariff? Dress hole watch 99. We're gonna watch this hole grow bigger and bigger all night long.
2:59 Georgia Hardstark? You know why?
2:59 Karen Kilgariff? Don't be gross, god. Let me say one weird Freudian slip at the top of the show, for god's sake.
3:07 Georgia Hardstark? You know why? I've eaten so fucking well in this city that this dress doesn't fit.
3:13 Karen Kilgariff? I had one of those burritos today that you were talking about.
3:16 Georgia Hardstark? What's it from? It's from Matador.
3:19 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
3:20 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Holy shit, you guys.
3:23 Karen Kilgariff? Good shit.
3:23 Georgia Hardstark? And then I had a fucking lobster roll. Right before we had to come in here and I had to put this dress on, so I was just like...
3:30 Karen Kilgariff? You're working against your own dress.
3:32 Georgia Hardstark? It's like, we're coming towards the end of the tour and like, all the things that I would like prepping for in the beginning, like fake tan, and I'm gonna make sure I whiten my teeth, and I gotta make sure my dress is fit, and blah blah blah. Like, I just fucking have, like, at that point, at this point...
3:45 Karen Kilgariff? No.
3:45 Georgia Hardstark? It's just like, what am I ordering when I get back to the hotel?
3:48 Karen Kilgariff? That's right.
3:48 Georgia Hardstark? For room service.
3:50 Karen Kilgariff? More lobster rolls, probably?
3:51 Georgia Hardstark? More lobster rolls.
3:52 Karen Kilgariff? I have to say, you know, we went down by the beautiful harbor and looked at the clipper ship, I don't know, there's a bunch of boats down there and stuff.
4:01 Karen Kilgariff? And it's, it was such a gorgeous day today, like unbelievably gorgeous, and then that area is so gorgeous. And there's a man walking behind us. And we stopped to look at, you know, down the, down the view, where the big swail is and shit, I don't know, you're the one that lives here.
4:19 Georgia Hardstark? Paris wheel.
4:20 Karen Kilgariff? Thank you. And then this guy stopped behind us and I was like, uh-oh, this guy is following us. And it's like, no, no, no, everybody likes the view, Karen, everybody. He's got a camera, he's from somewhere else.
4:34 Georgia Hardstark? They're all here for a reason.
4:36 Karen Kilgariff? For that exact same reason.
4:37 Georgia Hardstark? Did you go on, would you go on the Ferris wheel? Vince and I were debating that for some reason while we were looking at it.
4:42 Karen Kilgariff? It's too high.
4:43 Georgia Hardstark? It's scary. It's very scary. Like, I don't need to see that high. I can see from like the third floor of the hotel that it looks pretty fucking amazing. Without being terrified.
4:53 Karen Kilgariff? It's so high.
4:54 Georgia Hardstark? It's so high.
4:55 Karen Kilgariff? And also those things snap off and roll into the sea all the time, all the time.
5:00 Georgia Hardstark? Absolutely.
5:02 Karen Kilgariff? Sick of that shit.
5:03 Georgia Hardstark? And then like, that is Karen's stance from here on out.
5:09 Karen Kilgariff? God, I'm mad about it. That, and you know what? It's a nice harbor, smells too much like fish. I'm sorry. I have one note, get rid of that fish smell.
5:18 Georgia Hardstark? Speaking of fish smells, this is my favorite.
5:23 Georgia Hardstark? Had to.
5:25 Karen Kilgariff? That's Georgia Hardt's.
5:26 Georgia Hardstark? That's Karen Kilgariff.
5:30 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you.
5:31 Karen Kilgariff? You're Seattle.
5:34 Georgia Hardstark? I was gonna tell, oh, you know what's playing at this theater coming up?
5:38 Karen Kilgariff? What? Shenyang.
5:40 Georgia Hardstark? Probably, but also Rocky Horror Picture Show.
5:43 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, shit.
5:45 Georgia Hardstark? I feel like it's like hollow grounds more than like when we did, what's that one place we did in Nashville?
5:52 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, the Grand Old Opry?
5:53 Georgia Hardstark? I'm like, whatever, but then I'm like, Rocky Horror is gonna be here? It's so exciting.
5:58 Karen Kilgariff? I wish I could time travel back to my 12-year-old self where Rocky Horror played every Saturday night at the Plaza Theater in Petaluma. I think we're, that theater is in a, it's in a book or something. They did it for a really long time. But I wish I could just go back as an old crone and whisper in my 12-year-old ear. I was like, it just is this over and over. Again, until you die.
6:20 Georgia Hardstark? This is the best.
6:21 Karen Kilgariff? You're gonna keep on hearing this song. That song by The Cure. You're gonna keep on, like, it's all the same. It just keeps repeating.
6:28 Georgia Hardstark? Have you lashed your spark?
6:29 Karen Kilgariff? My mind? Look, we're doing our best.
6:33 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, we really are.
6:35 Karen Kilgariff? Are we?
6:35 Georgia Hardstark? We are. We try.
6:37 Karen Kilgariff? Who knows?
6:38 Georgia Hardstark? Look.
6:38 Karen Kilgariff? Hey, listen.
6:40 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, I have another question. I don't know why I'm asking all these questions like the Ferris wheel one, but I was taking a bath in the hotel and I was like, is this gross? When most people take a bath, a separate bathtub from a shower. I'm not a fucking monster. I would never. I never like combine the two. But when there's like a separate bathtub, I'm like, yes. And I get so excited and I get in the bath and I'm like, who else has been in here?
7:05 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
7:06 Georgia Hardstark? They have to clean it, right?
7:08 Karen Kilgariff? They do, but then I also ask how much bleach is in there when I'm getting in.
7:12 Georgia Hardstark? Bleach is great for eczema, though. So, I swear.
7:16 Karen Kilgariff? I don't want to talk about eczema anymore. It's very weird, though, because we are cyclically connected. Because I also tried to take a bath today.
7:24 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, OK, you did.
7:25 Karen Kilgariff? And I actually switched it over from the, because it is a very nice bathtub. We're very lucky to have the best bathtubs in the business. But I switched it over to the like hand sprayer thing. And I was just like, bleach, get rid of this bleach. There must be bleach everywhere.
7:41 Georgia Hardstark? I'm not worried about bleach. I'm worried about other people's skin cells. One time I got out of the bathtub and I had someone else's body glitter on me. And I, that's when I knew.
7:51 Karen Kilgariff? You don't have to be upset about that, though, because that was just a kindergarten teacher. I've told this story on the show before, but my sister has been a kindergarten teacher for 30 years. And she, she's like, here's how you know I'm a kindergarten teacher. I just sneezed and glitter came out of my nose.
8:09 Karen Kilgariff? Just part of the job, as if.
8:10 Georgia Hardstark? Do you see two seats empty and go, what, what fight did they get in on the way here? What was the argument about?
8:17 Karen Kilgariff? Also, I see those two seats and I'm like, that's, those are totally my tickets when I'm not the one on the stage. I'm like out there, I'm like, OK, sorry, I'm 29 minutes late. You don't have to be mad at me all the time.
8:28 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God, you guys, if they come and like quietly walk in, let's all like yell something at them at the same time. It's all like.
8:34 Karen Kilgariff? Let's plan a prank.
8:36 Georgia Hardstark? Want to show, show them your dress?
8:38 Karen Kilgariff? It's the mayor of Seattle. Oh, here's my dress and it has pockets.
8:45 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, I love this one.
8:46 Karen Kilgariff? Two.
8:47 Georgia Hardstark? Two of them.
8:48 Karen Kilgariff? Two in the front.
8:50 Georgia Hardstark? At least two.
8:51 Karen Kilgariff? None of those butt pockets on a dress like you hate.
8:54 Georgia Hardstark? And we have accidental matching sequence.
8:57 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. What? Yes, that's right. Oh, we, um...
9:01 Georgia Hardstark? Sorry, we were having a...
9:02 Karen Kilgariff? Listen, can't we just have one minute? One meeting in front of you? We are very excited because we do have a little tiny surprise for you tonight.
9:13 Georgia Hardstark? There is a special guest here that we... Is part of the... Not Steven. Now you made this guest feel really fucking bad.
9:20 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, good job.
9:24 Georgia Hardstark? Who is part of the My Favorite Murder family from the very beginning that we just absolutely adore.
9:29 Karen Kilgariff? And he's a voluntary part of the My Favorite Murder family, just began to make things for us, is so perfect. We love him so much. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Nick Terry.
9:43 Georgia Hardstark? He pointed over there, is it?
9:45 Karen Kilgariff? I pointed to that person, but I don't know where he's coming from.
9:47 Georgia Hardstark? That's not Nick Terry. Where is he?
9:49 Karen Kilgariff? It's Nick Terry.
9:49 Georgia Hardstark? There he is!
9:51 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, coming down the center. Yes, yes, yes.
9:58 Karen Kilgariff? Look at him go!
9:59 Georgia Hardstark? Oh my god. He looks like he would draw Nick Terry's animations.
10:04 Karen Kilgariff? That's right.
10:04 Georgia Hardstark? Doesn't he?
10:05 Karen Kilgariff? He's perfect casting Nick Terry.
10:10 Georgia Hardstark? Hey, come here. Hello.
10:14 Karen Kilgariff? It's so good to see you.
10:16 Georgia Hardstark? Have people recognized you here tonight?
10:18 Speaker 04 Not tonight, no.
10:19 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, you guys. Last night, the audience was better?
10:23 Speaker 04 A couple last night at the very end.
10:25 Georgia Hardstark? Is it so exciting?
10:26 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's fun. I never know what to say.
10:28 Georgia Hardstark? Have you seen MFM animated tattoos in the wild?
10:31 Speaker 04 Uh, not in person, but I've gotten some photos over...
10:34 Georgia Hardstark? All right.
10:34 Speaker 04 Over the years.
10:35 Georgia Hardstark? Can someone really quickly run out, get a fucking quick MFM animated... Vince, actually. I was thinking Vince and I could get... If Vince and I had to get couples tattoos, I could get his MFM animated for some reason on my stomach. And he could get mine!
10:49 Karen Kilgariff? Because that's where the nipple is.
10:54 Georgia Hardstark? Well, we want to thank you for being part of the family and just, we're such big fans.
10:57 Speaker 04 Oh, I'm so honored to be able to participate in this cool thing.
11:01 Georgia Hardstark? Nick Terry, everyone!
11:03 Karen Kilgariff? I feel like Nick Terry is the perfect Seattle citizen to interact with. He's the perfect representation of like chill, insanely talented, not a dick, and loves the rain.
11:18 Speaker 04 I do love the rain, that's true, yeah, absolutely.
11:21 Karen Kilgariff? Well, we love you, thank you for everything. And we just wanted to get you up here so people could put their eyes on you and then buy you coffee the next time they see you.
11:29 Speaker 04 Thanks so much.
11:30 Karen Kilgariff? Nick Terry, ladies and gentlemen!
11:35 Georgia Hardstark? I love that you just pointed in that general direction.
11:37 Karen Kilgariff? I was just like, someone's standing over there.
11:39 Georgia Hardstark? That's Marcus, that's our tour manager.
11:41 Karen Kilgariff? Sorry, Marcus, I don't have my glasses on.
11:44 Karen Kilgariff? Well, is it sit-down time?
11:46 Georgia Hardstark? It's sit-down time.
11:52 Georgia Hardstark? Here we go.
11:53 Karen Kilgariff? I just remembered, I didn't print up one email.
11:56 Georgia Hardstark? Oh no!
11:58 Karen Kilgariff? That's fine, I'll resite it off the top of my head.
12:01 Georgia Hardstark? Is it gonna ruin the story, is the night? Should we just end this?
12:04 Karen Kilgariff? I think we should end it right now, and thanks so much. Speech, speech, speech.
12:09 Georgia Hardstark? We got our table back, we accidentally had a short table recently.
12:13 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, the challenges that we've seen on this tour, it's absolutely...
12:17 Georgia Hardstark? It's so hard, like, do I take a bath, or do I not take a bath? It's really hard.
12:21 Karen Kilgariff? Who are we? It's been 10 years, and now we're the biggest bath time divas of all time.
12:29 Karen Kilgariff? Thank you, thanks for supporting that.
12:34 Georgia Hardstark? Who's first? Okay, oh, tell them about what we're doing tonight.
12:36 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, yes.
12:36 Georgia Hardstark? I don't even remember how this goes.
12:38 Karen Kilgariff? This is a little speech that we like to give because oftentimes, you guys, we've been touring and coming to Seattle for... since we started touring, you guys were like the third stop I think we ever made.
12:51 Karen Kilgariff? And unlike Portland, you didn't get shitfaced and throw up in the aisle.
12:58 Georgia Hardstark? That sounds like a challenge.
12:59 Karen Kilgariff? It is. I'm kind of trying to start to kick up the rivalry tonight. One Portlander is out there like crying.
13:07 Karen Kilgariff? But, we just want to tell anybody who, there's plenty of people that, the people who listen to this podcast, forced to come to live shows, which is cruel and selfish, but we'll talk about that later. The people who are forced, we call you drag-alongs, and we just give you a little speech at the top because you will not know what's happening. A lot of this is like going to your friend's college reunion or some shit where everyone's like, "Remember that one time?" And it's like, "No, I don't, and this is boring."
13:35 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
13:38 Karen Kilgariff? Also, we just want to tell you or explain a little bit, this is a true crime comedy podcast, and we started this podcast because Georgia and I met and we realized that we have similar trauma and we cope with it in similar ways. Through humor, I won't stop mispronouncing it.
13:53 Georgia Hardstark? I know, the humor, the humor thing, yeah.
13:54 Karen Kilgariff? It started as humor, now I'm saying you more. Now no one knows what's going on, but at least I think it's funny.
14:01 Georgia Hardstark? That's the point.
14:03 Karen Kilgariff? We cope with it through humor, and we cope with it through reading true crime stories. We don't know why, you don't know why, it's just how it is with us. And, we don't think murder's funny, we think we're funny. Ultimately, if you don't like it, you can get the fuck out.
14:25 Karen Kilgariff? That was a big, that was a big one.
14:27 Georgia Hardstark? My, my friend Carrie Sellen-Vetter texts me today, we were texting about, you know, she got in a car accident, she's stressed out, this happened, and I said, "It's probably not helping that I'm listening to a book about Columbine." And she goes, "How are we gonna get you into sexy dragons?" She's like, "What is wrong with you? We need you to get into like fantasy, Georgia." Jesus fucking Christ.
14:48 Karen Kilgariff? I know.
14:48 Georgia Hardstark? And it's not even for work, I'm just fucking, that's my like, that's my reading.
14:52 Karen Kilgariff? That's your go-to.
14:53 Georgia Hardstark? Jesus.
14:54 Karen Kilgariff? It feels right. It just feels right.
14:57 Georgia Hardstark? Sexy dragons, so that's the next, that's my next podcast.
15:00 Karen Kilgariff? You can't force sexy dragons, though, that's kind of the worst way to interact with them. It's gotta be natural, gotta be.
15:09 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, Marcus, is this you? He keeps putting G. Grizz, or G. Skillet, or G. Georgia, do you have one too?
15:17 Karen Kilgariff? No, he doesn't like me.
15:20 Georgia Hardstark? It's fine, it's fine. I like it. It's always different and I'm finally paying attention and noticing, what, eight cities in? Great. Am I first? Listen. We're having a great time. It says here, "You're going first."
15:34 Georgia Hardstark? Molly's like, "You're so stupid that I know that even though I text you this afternoon, you're gonna forget," which I did. Look.
15:42 Georgia Hardstark? Listen, okay. I got nothing. Stop.
15:45 Georgia Hardstark? As an adult, making dinner isn't the hard part.
15:48 Karen Kilgariff? The hard part is deciding what to make every single night for the rest of your life.
15:51 Georgia Hardstark? But with Hungry Root, you can make that decision a whole lot easier.
15:54 Karen Kilgariff? Hungry Root is like having your own personal shopper and nutritionist all wrapped up into one. They'll take care of weekly grocery shopping and recommend groceries and meals tailored to you.
16:04 Georgia Hardstark? Once you tell them about your goals and preferences, they fill your cart with personalized recommendations. And those recommendations get smarter as Hungry Root learns more about what you did or didn't like.
16:13 Karen Kilgariff? Most of Hungry Root's recipes can be made in just 15 minutes or less. I mean, of course, it's always great to have delicious and very healthy groceries delivered to your house, which they can do, but I love the fact that Hungry Root will also just make you dinner so you can have it sitting there waiting. They make a classic chicken, corn, and Mexican rice bowl, and they have all kinds of variations on those themes. So that's one that I love to reach for. And all these options so you're getting really healthy meals.
16:40 Georgia Hardstark? For a limited time, get 40% off your first order plus get a free item in every box for life.
16:46 Karen Kilgariff? Go to hungryroot.com/mfm and use code MFM. That's hungryroot.com/mfm code MFM to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. Goodbye.
16:58 Georgia Hardstark? I'm first. That's right. Right? Yes, it is. Okay. Yeah, really focus and let's be professional. Starting now. Starting now for the first time, yeah. Wait, starting now. Okay, so tonight's story that I'm gonna tell you is about a group of four hell-raising siblings from Spokane.
17:18 Georgia Hardstark? Which I said correctly.
17:20 Karen Kilgariff? You sure did.
17:20 Georgia Hardstark? I know.
17:21 Karen Kilgariff? And also, my story was from Spokane last night.
17:23 Georgia Hardstark? That's right.
17:24 Karen Kilgariff? And one of our great listeners, who wrote in an email, called it "The Sacramento of Washington."
17:31 Georgia Hardstark? You said it, not us.
17:33 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, we didn't do it.
17:34 Georgia Hardstark? No.
17:34 Karen Kilgariff? We're just reading emails from you.
17:36 Georgia Hardstark? Don't misplace your anger here.
17:38 Karen Kilgariff? Take it elsewhere.
17:42 Georgia Hardstark? And so, this is about four hell-raising siblings from Spokane who probably got away with murder. Their multiple trials were huge sensations in the early 1900s, when your parents were born.
17:54 Georgia Hardstark? But it's mostly been lost to time. This is the story of the infamous Douglas... Sorry, McDonald family. Who's Douglas?
18:00 Karen Kilgariff? McDonal Douglas?
18:01 Georgia Hardstark? McDonal Douglas, yes. McDonald family. Stephen?
18:06 Karen Kilgariff? We love their hamburgers.
18:10 Georgia Hardstark? We do. Okay. The main source for the story is a two-part essay from History Link, which summarizes a lot of the old-timey reporting. And that article is by Jim Kirschner. So, we are in Spokane. And it's mid-July of 1919. And a woman named... Okay, here we go. It's just starting immediately. A woman named Pearl McNutt.
18:30 Karen Kilgariff? Hell, yeah.
18:32 Georgia Hardstark? Like, just right off the bat.
18:35 Karen Kilgariff? She will only have nouns in her name, only.
18:38 Georgia Hardstark? Yes. So, we're already off to the McNutt races.
18:42 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
18:42 Georgia Hardstark? And it's only gonna get worse.
18:46 Georgia Hardstark? And we try not to work blue, but when we do, we just go with it.
18:49 Karen Kilgariff? We just go all in.
18:50 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
18:51 Karen Kilgariff? Remember the hole in Georgia's dress?
18:54 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, and the nipple. Um, who could forget the nipple? So, Pearl McNutt walks into a police station, and she claims that her husband, a prominent real estate developer named... Guess what? William McNutt, has been missing for about a month. So Pearl says that weeks earlier, her husband had gone over to a local boarding house that's called The Wolverine. It's pretty rad.
19:15 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, that badass.
19:16 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
19:17 Karen Kilgariff? Is it still there?
19:18 Georgia Hardstark? No.
19:19 Karen Kilgariff? What if you're like, "I wanna open a boarding house. What should I call it?" The Sea Wolf?
19:24 Georgia Hardstark? No. How about Sexy Dragons? No. Wolverine.
19:29 Karen Kilgariff? Wolverines.
19:31 Georgia Hardstark? So Mr. McNutt went to settle a dispute over money at the Wolverine. McNutt had loaned someone, had loaned the startup cash to open the hotel to four siblings, and now they're not repaying the loan as agreed. And Pearl hasn't seen her husband since he went to try to collect the money that they owed him weeks earlier, which I guess doesn't get, like, lost in translation that you wouldn't go, like, two days later, whatever.
19:56 Karen Kilgariff? But think about what Laura Ingalls Wilder would have done and how long it would have taken her to do that. First of all, you have to go ask Pa. And then you have to go down to Mrs. Olsen's corner store and get some supplies.
20:09 Georgia Hardstark? And it's 1919, so she's not used to, like, making her own decisions, not like we, like us now, right?
20:14 Karen Kilgariff? But you just said, but it's 1990.
20:16 Georgia Hardstark? I said 1919.
20:18 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, my mistake. Because it was pretty fucked up in 1919, 1990 as well.
20:24 Georgia Hardstark? It's always sucked. Okay, so, oh, and then Ally, my researcher, wrote, "Note to Georgia, there are three Williams in this story, so my hands are tied. I have to refer to him as McNutt." As if she doesn't know me and know that I would do that anyways, no matter how many Williams we were discussing.
20:45 Karen Kilgariff? There's Bill, there's Will, there's Willie, there's Billy.
20:48 Georgia Hardstark? There's just McNutt.
20:49 Karen Kilgariff? There's.
20:50 Georgia Hardstark? McNutt and I.
20:51 Karen Kilgariff? There's B-Nuts with a Z at the end.
20:55 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, so the Wolverine is owned and operated by the McDonald siblings, Marie, Fay, Ted, and Will, another fucking William. They're all in their early twenties to early thirties, and Fay is the youngest at around 20 years old. The McDonald's are an interesting bunch. Their father, who has been dead for about two years, was a judge, but not a respected one. He had never been an attorney, and he had just been elected as judge as a populist candidate. Hey, you go decide everyone's fate because you're charismatic? I don't know.
21:26 Karen Kilgariff? You drink a lot with people in bars and stuff?
21:28 Georgia Hardstark? Exactly.
21:29 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, like, how do you do that? Where it's like, you know what? Let old McNutt decide.
21:35 Georgia Hardstark? And he had made a lot of big promises, had a lot of charisma, but was ultimately just a scammer. And so he's left his four kids behind. As soon as he had been elected, he hired three family members to be bailiffs. You, you, you.
21:47 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, nepotism.
21:48 Georgia Hardstark? Yep.
21:49 Karen Kilgariff? Really bad up here.
21:50 Georgia Hardstark? One of which was his son, Will, who was 12 years old at the time. So Will, the 12-year-old bailiff. That is an MFM animated sketch of Lil Will.
22:01 Karen Kilgariff? Wouldn't that be amazing if we make Nick do it live, like, behind us?
22:06 Georgia Hardstark? He quits forever.
22:07 Karen Kilgariff? Quick sketches?
22:09 Georgia Hardstark? He also starts having his daughter Faye, his youngest daughter, preach on the evangelical circuit when she's eight years old.
22:17 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
22:18 Georgia Hardstark? That's who I want to hear fucking about Jesus from, is a fucking...
22:21 Karen Kilgariff? But think about it.
22:22 Georgia Hardstark? What?
22:23 Karen Kilgariff? It's eerie.
22:24 Georgia Hardstark? Creepy?
22:25 Karen Kilgariff? Creepy.
22:25 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
22:26 Karen Kilgariff? Right? Because you know she's like one of those old souls that like talks like an adult as an eight-year-old. And then she's like, guess what Jesus said? And you're like, oh, no. The weird child told me what God said. Like, you would absolutely fall for it. Not you, but we, one would. One would love it.
22:42 Georgia Hardstark? Sure. I can see that. So in 1915, four years before McNutt goes missing, a fire breaks out at Marie's house. And at the time, Marie, one of the siblings, is around 20 years old. And she has just gotten divorced from a man, another William, William Wilkinson.
22:58 Karen Kilgariff? Please get him out of the family. There's too many bills.
23:01 Georgia Hardstark? Nope. No, it gets worse because he's described as a street railroad man, which we think means he either drove a streetcar or works on Spokane's Trolley Network in some capacity. We don't know. But the fire is set at Marie's house. Actually, here's a photo of Marie and Faye.
23:18 Karen Kilgariff? What a gorgeous photo.
23:21 Georgia Hardstark? Hey!
23:23 Karen Kilgariff? What she did. She's about to sing or sneeze.
23:30 Karen Kilgariff? She's actually like, "I can't believe this fucking guy's gonna take a picture of us right now." But doesn't, it kind of looks like that's Faye and that's Marie, just by the length of the names down there. Can't read them.
23:41 Georgia Hardstark? Right, yes, you're right. But also, the younger sister's always the taller one, though. So maybe, you know what I mean?
23:46 Karen Kilgariff? That's true, and more beautiful.
23:47 Georgia Hardstark? And the smartest one ever! Hey!
23:51 Karen Kilgariff? But also, so doesn't Marie kind of look like two children in an overcoat?
23:57 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
24:00 Karen Kilgariff? And not to body shame, that's not my style, but... Let's make sure that they pay for all their movie tickets, that's all I'm saying.
24:09 Georgia Hardstark? Structurally, yes. It's not body shaming, it's a structure thing.
24:12 Karen Kilgariff? It's more of shape shaming.
24:14 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
24:16 Georgia Hardstark? So there's a fire at Marie's house. When the fire's put out, the fire marshals immediately notice some fishy things going on at Marie's house. To start with, all the shades are drawn and tacked down to the window sills, so no one can see into the house.
24:29 Karen Kilgariff? Tacked.
24:29 Georgia Hardstark? Which also sounds like you're just making drugs.
24:32 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, that's very methy, but in 1919.
24:35 Georgia Hardstark? Right. Secondly, all of the furniture had been moved out of the house before the fire started.
24:44 Georgia Hardstark? And...
24:46 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, well.
24:46 Georgia Hardstark? You know?
24:47 Karen Kilgariff? Well, good luck.
24:48 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. And there's little petals of maybe kerosene here and there, so that, this looks suspicious. The fire marshal also finds out that Marie had recently taken out an insurance policy worth fifteen hundred... What happened? Fifteen hundred dollars for the personal property in the house that wasn't in the house anymore.
25:10 Karen Kilgariff? Uh-oh.
25:11 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
25:11 Karen Kilgariff? They're trying to get that fifteen hundred dollars.
25:13 Georgia Hardstark? Which in today's money...
25:14 Karen Kilgariff? Fifteen hundred from 1919?
25:16 Georgia Hardstark? 1915. I feel like that's gonna make a huge difference.
25:18 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, that's, that's gonna change my data quite a bit, as I calculate. Let me calculate. I literally always just guess, like, "Is it thirty-seven thousand dollars?"
25:29 Georgia Hardstark? Forty-eight, that's like, so close, though!
25:32 Karen Kilgariff? That was pretty close for me. I usually like to go, "That's okay."
25:39 Georgia Hardstark? So nice, like all the drag-alongs are always like, "What the fuck's happening?"
25:42 Karen Kilgariff? Why did they clap for her? She was wrong.
25:45 Georgia Hardstark? So wrong. That's actually close in today's podcasting.
25:49 Karen Kilgariff? That's very true.
25:50 Georgia Hardstark? Of today's money.
25:51 Karen Kilgariff? Nice.
25:52 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you.
25:53 Karen Kilgariff? Clapping because we're wrong is kind of the theme of this podcast.
25:57 Georgia Hardstark? That's right.
25:59 Karen Kilgariff? Right? It's the fun of it. That's the fun of it.
26:02 Georgia Hardstark? Are they disagreeing right now?
26:04 Karen Kilgariff? They're agreeing and disagreeing at the same time. It's what they're like up here.
26:08 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, the fire marshal notes that all of Marie's belongings are worth about a third of what she's claiming that they're worth, even though they're not even there. So she's charged with arson and her bail is set at about $2,000. Do you want to or should we not do it?
26:23 Karen Kilgariff? $37,000. I think that's...
26:24 Georgia Hardstark? That's less than...
26:25 Karen Kilgariff? I said that before. Yeah, same number. I panicked.
26:28 Georgia Hardstark? 64. Just keep going, 37.
26:31 Karen Kilgariff? I'm just sorry because I was kind of caught up thinking about, my sister used to have my grandfather's chest of drawers that she kept in Nora's room just to keep it away. And that fucking thing was so heavy that when we tried to move it out, when she got Nora new furniture, it was like eight people had to come over. So
26:48 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
26:49 Karen Kilgariff? Someone in Marie's household had to carry out the shifter robe and the fucking fainting couch and, I mean, every single...
26:57 Georgia Hardstark? And the neighbors-in-snitch, apparently.
26:59 Karen Kilgariff? No.
27:00 Georgia Hardstark? So, she's bailed out of this arrest by none other than William McNutt.
27:08 Karen Kilgariff? The crooked judge?
27:09 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, who, no, that's their parent, their dad.
27:12 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, okay.
27:12 Georgia Hardstark? William McNutt's the one who went missing earlier, eight hours ago in the beginning of the story.
27:18 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, got it, got it.
27:18 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. So, since he had been friends with the fathers, he's still close with the kids and kind of looks after them a little, it seems like, in their early adulthood, including bailing her out. And this seems to be a mistake as he goes missing. Because of it. One more weird detail about this arson chapter is that five days after the arson and six months after Marie's divorce from the street railroad man, William, just you can just guess William and you're right.
27:45 Karen Kilgariff? It's peanuts.
27:47 Georgia Hardstark? He marries Marie. Remember you were like, we should just get rid of him. We would. But he marries Marie's 15-year-old sister, Fay, instead. So we can't get rid of this guy.
28:00 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
28:00 Karen Kilgariff? She was 15?
28:02 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Well, maybe not now, but pretty fucking young. Pretty young, like 20 there.
28:06 Karen Kilgariff? I would love to turn her on to Korean skincare. It is a life changer. It's a fucking life changer. Go to TJ Maxx, change your own life, I swear to God.
28:16 Georgia Hardstark? Now, you can tell they didn't have it back then.
28:17 Karen Kilgariff? No, they did not. It was all just one burlap sack that the whole town shared. Scrape it off, Marie.
28:28 Georgia Hardstark? So, basically, there's a court. They go to court and in the end, there's a hung jury and the judge declares a mistrial and so the prosecutor chooses not to charge Marie again. So she got away with this arson. So between the fire in 1915 and 1919, when McNutt disappears, the McDonald's wind up opening the Wolverine, this boarding house, using funding from McNutt. And, but that was a bad idea to do.
28:58 Karen Kilgariff? You can just keep saying that, usually through all these stories.
29:01 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, that's, everything's a bad idea.
29:02 Karen Kilgariff? Bad idea.
29:03 Georgia Hardstark? So Pearl, the wife, Pearl McNutt, who has three children with McNutt, it says, Jesus.
29:12 Georgia Hardstark? She, when she's saying to the police that she can't find her husband, she says that he had gotten into an argument with the McDonald's siblings, who had said that if he came back to the Wolverine again, they would shoot him. And so, weeks later, Pearl's like... He went back and I haven't seen him.
29:28 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. And the detective's like, let me think about this for a little while.
29:33 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Everyone's just gonna take some time. Let's not rush to any fucking judgment. Um, Pearl also tells the police that all four McDonald's siblings are now missing themselves. So what's more, when police look into the case, they quickly realize that Faye had shipped all of her belongings to Los Angeles under a fake name.
29:55 Karen Kilgariff? Uh-uh.
29:55 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. So at this point, the fact that all four McDonald's are missing, um, police are entertaining the idea that Marie has actually run off with McNutt. Not that they shot him as they said they would when he, if he ever came back. But, okay.
30:11 Karen Kilgariff? He might be under her coat. Maybe that's what, maybe that's what I'm seeing.
30:16 Georgia Hardstark? Um, so Pearl does what any person would do and goes to a psychic, a local psychic, named Selma Armore. That's a good psychic name.
30:26 Karen Kilgariff? That's great.
30:26 Georgia Hardstark? Um, and she says that McNutt has been murdered and his body is buried on a ranch. That's her premonition. This is backed up when an anonymous tipster calls the Burns Detective Agency in Los Angeles, who at this point have been looped in on the case since they think Faye, since Faye sent all her stuff to Los Angeles. They're like, let's keep an eye out for the tall one.
30:47 Georgia Hardstark? This tipster says that McNutt had been killed with a hammer at the Wolverine in June, a month earlier. Um, and then, uh, they can't identify who this caller is, but they're pretty sure that it is William Wilkinson, the husband, times two, husband squared, who married the sister and then the sister.
31:06 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, yeah, yeah, that guy.
31:07 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. This is complicated.
31:09 Karen Kilgariff? And I'm back.
31:13 Georgia Hardstark? What are you thinking about?
31:14 Karen Kilgariff? You know, just if those people come.
31:17 Georgia Hardstark? Not yet.
31:18 Karen Kilgariff? Thinking of jokes to say, I was gonna yell, "Look, it's the McNuts, everybody," and then...
31:23 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, that would've been great.
31:24 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, well, do it. They're not here. There's someone here.
31:26 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, okay, okay.
31:29 Georgia Hardstark? At this point, the Burns detectives locate Faye and, uh, her husband in Los Angeles, but there's no evidence connecting her to McNutt's disappearance. But that changes on October 2nd, 1919, when the anonymous tipster, this guy can't stop talking, calls detectives and tells them where McNutt's body can be found.
31:47 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, this person was clearly at the murder.
31:49 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
31:50 Karen Kilgariff? Witnessing, perhaps a journalist of some kind.
31:53 Georgia Hardstark? Right. And can't stop feeding them information and they're like... Okay, here is like sending them a map.
31:58 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
31:59 Georgia Hardstark? Like a map quest of.
32:02 Karen Kilgariff? He's dropping a pin for these motherfuckers and it is not working.
32:07 Georgia Hardstark? Finally, the tipster tells the Spokane police that McNutt is buried on his own ranch. Remember when the psychic, there's just so many arrows that nobody's looking at.
32:18 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
32:19 Georgia Hardstark? Because remember when the psychic was like, "He's buried on a ranch." And they're like, "Not on his own ranch, it's his own ranch."
32:24 Karen Kilgariff? It's his ranch. Oh, I thought you meant the guy that was giving the tip was like, "It's buried on my ranch." And I'm like, "That tipster is not good at giving tips." So he might as well just come and get me now.
32:34 Georgia Hardstark? And being anonymous, yeah. So the tipster actually gives specifics and he said that Will McDonald, the brother, had been the one to actually kill McNutt. And he buried him in a four-foot hole on the ranch and then made a bonfire over the spot to cover up the newly-turned earth. So clearly this person was there, right?
32:55 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
32:56 Georgia Hardstark? Investigators quickly find the burned area and start digging. Soon they find the edge of a blanket and they realize it's wrapped around a body. Pearl is on the scene and identifies her husband, William McNutt. And his skull has been hit multiple times with a blunt object, just as the tipster had said.
33:12 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, it was a hammer, right?
33:13 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, it seems like it. At this point, the Spokane police telegraph Los Angeles police and they arrest three of the four McDonald's siblings, Marie Fay and this one, Ted. I'm gonna burp.
33:25 Karen Kilgariff? What was Ted like, do you think?
33:26 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you, keep asking.
33:27 Karen Kilgariff? He was, I bet Ted was just kind of like the younger brother, he's a fuck-up.
33:30 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you.
33:31 Karen Kilgariff? Actually, I'm just describing House of Guinness right now. That's why my brain went to that.
33:36 Georgia Hardstark? I've been watching that too.
33:37 Karen Kilgariff? It's good, right?
33:37 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
33:39 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you.
33:40 Karen Kilgariff? You're welcome. Anytime.
33:43 Georgia Hardstark? Sorry about the Red Bull smell.
33:48 Georgia Hardstark? Red Bull and lobster roll? Ew! Guys, that's gross.
33:54 Karen Kilgariff? Why is that your city treat? Sorry, that would've been funnier.
33:59 Georgia Hardstark? No, it's actually my signature scent.
34:05 Karen Kilgariff? The cats will love you.
34:09 Georgia Hardstark? Um, it gives you fins, if that's so. But lobsters don't have...
34:13 Karen Kilgariff? Put her there.
34:15 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you.
34:17 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, but they can't track down the fourth sibling, William, because these Williams. And that, as you recall, is the one who it was said actually killed and buried McNutt. So he's kind of the one that they want the most and they can't find him. And in late October of 1919, the remaining three McDonald's siblings are extradited to Spokane and charged with McNutt's murder. The McDo—oh, yeah, there's a picture.
34:43 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
34:44 Georgia Hardstark? Chicanas! Do you see Charlie XCX right there?
34:50 Georgia Hardstark? Right? And that must be Lord, then.
34:55 Karen Kilgariff? You cannot argue with those eyebrows, though. They're just devastating brows.
34:59 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, those are not even—yeah.
35:02 Karen Kilgariff? From a hundred and some odd years ago.
35:04 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
35:04 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
35:05 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, so that's them. They're going to trial. And so, basically, the trial begins in January of 1920, and Will McDonald still isn't located. The sibling's story has changed and just keeps changing. Marie says that McNutt had come to the Wolverine and had physically attacked her, and that Fay, her sister, had tried to protect her. And then Will, the brother, had burst dramatically into the room. At that point—there's two Wills now. At that point, McNutt had drawn a gun. So the victim had drawn a gun and fired at least twice, missing Will. And that Will had beaten them on the head with a hammer in self-defense. And the siblings back that up.
35:46 Karen Kilgariff? Um, okay. It's just the whole hammer part—
35:51 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
35:53 Karen Kilgariff? —is a little violent.
35:54 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
35:55 Karen Kilgariff? And also, weren't there multiple contusions, if I must?
35:58 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. And you know what? There weren't bullet holes anywhere.
36:02 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, yeah.
36:03 Georgia Hardstark? So—because you'd be like, well, why don't we just immediately get the cops and— Be like it was self-defense. See, there's a bullet hole and a bullet hole. I was like, oh, there aren't any.
36:10 Karen Kilgariff? That's right.
36:11 Georgia Hardstark? So, okay, that's not gonna work. And so, there are a lot of holes in the story, except there aren't any holes. I was like trying to figure out how to say that.
36:21 Karen Kilgariff? No, you did it. That was great.
36:23 Georgia Hardstark? And the other thing that's weird is the day after this happens, Marie had tried to pay for some hosiery. Hosiery?
36:29 Karen Kilgariff? Hosiery. Either one.
36:30 Georgia Hardstark? Hosiery. In a department store with a check from McNutt's checkbook. So you, that's not great. Why, like, just don't do that.
36:39 Karen Kilgariff? He said I could.
36:40 Georgia Hardstark? Right. Right. So thirdly, the day after McNutt first went missing, someone asked Fay, one of the sisters, where he was, and she answered that he had gone fishing. Yeah, he's gone fishing. Which is like, and then also, they drive out of town when they leave for Los Angeles in McNutt's car. So, not the best plan.
37:03 Karen Kilgariff? They're flippant. They're stealing his stuff.
37:06 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
37:06 Karen Kilgariff? They still have all their furniture.
37:08 Georgia Hardstark? Right. And their hammer.
37:10 Karen Kilgariff? It's the beginning of the Beverly Hillbillies.
37:12 Georgia Hardstark? Shit.
37:15 Georgia Hardstark? So despite all these holes, the fact that McDonald's, the McDonald's tell a story of self-defense and that they say that it was actually the brother who did the deed anyways, who isn't here. All through McDonald's, Marie, Fay, and Ted are found not guilty.
37:30 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
37:30 Georgia Hardstark? But they're all rearrested and recharged the next day for forgery and for trying to pass that check, for stealing the car. Just for doing stupid. I'm not telling you how to commit a crime. You shouldn't commit a crime. Don't commit a crime.
37:47 Karen Kilgariff? But...
37:49 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
37:49 Karen Kilgariff? When you do...
37:50 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
37:51 Karen Kilgariff? Leave the car in the guy's garage.
37:54 Georgia Hardstark? Right. And this, in the end, the sisters are found guilty and Ted is found not guilty. So the sisters appeal their cases. They're let out of jail on bond. Which is a big mistake because they fucking skedaddle.
38:07 Karen Kilgariff? I could have told you that.
38:10 Karen Kilgariff? Now there's like three kids in a coat. Like they're like, we gotta get out of here, put the coat on.
38:20 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, Spokane detective is sent to track them down, which like had to be the most exciting like thing of his life, right?
38:27 Karen Kilgariff? It's on his suspenders.
38:28 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, it's on his coat.
38:30 Karen Kilgariff? And then a raincoat over it.
38:32 Georgia Hardstark? Hey, like how fun. He's sent to track her, to track them down. He tracks Faye to Tampico, Mexico. So this is like exotic for him now. He's living his life. I mean, this is a-
38:44 Karen Kilgariff? But probably a little bit jarring to his system.
38:47 Georgia Hardstark? Sure. Yeah, you gotta think. He finds her at-
38:53 Georgia Hardstark? I'm just picturing the fucking noir movie in my head right now. And it's so, it's just so good. I'm never gonna write it.
39:02 Georgia Hardstark? He, he finds her at a dance hall known to be popular with American women called Madame Rossi's. You take me there in 1919, 2020.
39:11 Karen Kilgariff? Because back then, the Italians were even more potent than they are now. You know what I mean? Madame Rossi was doing it.
39:18 Georgia Hardstark? Yes. But as soon as the detective walks into the dance hall, he overhears a woman say, quote, "I'm tired of it. I'd give anything to get out of this place and go back home." End quote. And he turns around and realizes it's actually Faye, the person who's tracking.
39:33 Karen Kilgariff? He walked right into-
39:34 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, so she doesn't even want to be there.
39:36 Karen Kilgariff? You have to do that voice for the rest of the story, just FYI.
39:39 Georgia Hardstark? He buys her a drink and eventually gets her to identify himself. No, it's terrible. So he buys her a drink and he's like, "You're Faye, right?" And she's like, "Yes, I don't want to be here." But Spokane can't get, Spokane police can't get Faye extradited. And it's not until months later, when she willingly crosses the border into Beaumont, Texas, because she, that she's finally arrested. So they just like waited her out in 1920s Mexico and to come home. And it worked.
40:09 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, yeah.
40:10 Georgia Hardstark? She serves three years in prison in Walla Walla and then moves to St. Louis, where she lives- A tall but relatively quiet life.
40:20 Georgia Hardstark? I don't even know that was her anymore. Was she the tall one? They're both the tall one.
40:23 Karen Kilgariff? I think Marie was, I can't remember.
40:25 Georgia Hardstark? No. How can you expect us to remember these things?
40:27 Karen Kilgariff? Listen.
40:29 Georgia Hardstark? In 1944, 25 years, oh, 25 years. Which is, uh, which is how many in today's years?
40:37 Karen Kilgariff? Forty-seven.
40:38 Georgia Hardstark? That's right. In 1944, 25 years after William McNutt's murder, the Spokane County Sheriff talks about the efforts to find Will and Marie, because they never found those two siblings to bring them to justice, saying, quote, "The search has gone from Havana, Cuba to Petersburg, Alaska, but we haven't caught up with Will." It's also like, you guys had so much fun looking for them in Havana, Cuba, and Petersburg, Alaska.
41:04 Karen Kilgariff? Vacation, vacation.
41:05 Georgia Hardstark? Exactly.
41:07 Georgia Hardstark? They say, "We were reasonably sure he was in Havana in 1924, but the Cuban authorities failed to arrest him, saying that he wasn't the right man." That sounds passive aggressive. "In 1928, we had reason to believe he was running whiskey between Key West and Havana, but again, he slipped away before he was arrested," end quote. Will and Marie are never found.
41:28 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
41:28 Georgia Hardstark? And never brought to justice. And that is the story of the infamous McDonald's siblings and the sad, technically unsolved murder of Will McNutt.
41:37 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
41:38 Georgia Hardstark? That's Will McNutt.
41:39 Karen Kilgariff? There he is.
41:42 Georgia Hardstark? It's a terrible photo. Sorry.
41:46 Karen Kilgariff? And that, that's from his Instagram, you're saying?
41:50 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, that's, he's got that filter on it, the FaceTime.
41:53 Karen Kilgariff? I love the historical, uh, yeah. What happened?
41:58 Georgia Hardstark? Oh! Oh, thank you, baby!
42:01 Karen Kilgariff? Vince Avril, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you.
42:07 Karen Kilgariff? Thank you so much.
42:08 Georgia Hardstark? You got it.
42:09 Karen Kilgariff? It's that email we were talking about earlier.
42:12 Georgia Hardstark? They're still not here.
42:13 Karen Kilgariff? Is that? Oh, okay.
42:16 Karen Kilgariff? Great job.
42:17 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you.
42:18 Karen Kilgariff? It's fun to do historical.
42:19 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
42:19 Karen Kilgariff? And imagine and think about all the things you don't know about from history.
42:23 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Like all the things that are lost.
42:27 Karen Kilgariff? Also, you were talking about, like, the story started in 1919 and I immediately was like, that's from Laura Ingalls Wilder time.
42:36 Georgia Hardstark? Just anything.
42:37 Karen Kilgariff? Just anything.
42:38 Georgia Hardstark? When is Laura? I don't even know.
42:39 Karen Kilgariff? 18... 1870?
42:42 Georgia Hardstark? 1870.
42:43 Karen Kilgariff? Laura, are you here tonight? Ladies and gentlemen.
42:49 Karen Kilgariff? That'd be incredible. What a guest spot.
42:52 Georgia Hardstark? I mean...
42:52 Karen Kilgariff? Sorry, Nick Terry.
42:55 Georgia Hardstark? That would be a gut.
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43:43 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
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46:02 Karen Kilgariff? Are you ready for this?
46:03 Georgia Hardstark? I am.
46:03 Karen Kilgariff? Okay. This is... Well, to tell my story tonight, I have to do a quick refresher on a story you already told on our podcast. And most of the people in this room probably don't need this refresher, but man, did I.
46:17 Georgia Hardstark? Probably do.
46:19 Karen Kilgariff? You, the person who told the story the first time? Okay. Well, then let's all talk like we've never heard this before.
46:24 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
46:26 Karen Kilgariff? This is one of the Pacific Northwest's most infamous crimes. It's the case of D.B. Cooper and the hijacking.
46:35 Georgia Hardstark? Oh yeah.
46:36 Karen Kilgariff? We know it, we love it, we theorize about it.
46:39 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
46:40 Karen Kilgariff? We say, "Where did he get those sunglasses? Why can't I have those sunglasses?" And on and on. What I learned when I was writing this cold open is that, did you know, and you probably told me this, so the answer's probably yes, that his name, the fake name that the man actually did, he gave was Dave.
46:58 Georgia Hardstark? Dan, Dave, Dan. I know. I fucking know that.
47:03 Karen Kilgariff? It's a D.A. man name.
47:04 Georgia Hardstark? 500 episodes, you guys. 10 years. I would have sworn it was Dan.
47:12 Karen Kilgariff? Listen, we try to make it worth your money buying these tickets by showing you all the mistakes that get cut out of the main episodes, right?
47:20 Georgia Hardstark? The beauty of the live show is you're gonna see...
47:22 Karen Kilgariff? It's au naturel.
47:24 Georgia Hardstark? The extra fuck-ups.
47:27 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, so that's episode 272, drag-alongs, if you want to catch up. But here are the Cliff's Notes, if not. So, the day before Thanksgiving, 1971, a man using fake named... What'd you say? What name did you say?
47:40 Georgia Hardstark? Dan.
47:40 Karen Kilgariff? You were right. You were right. I just saw it, yeah. Take a victory lap, take a full victory lap.
47:47 Georgia Hardstark? Well, it's gotta show the...
47:52 Karen Kilgariff? Yep.
47:53 Georgia Hardstark? Wow, that feels great.
47:55 Karen Kilgariff? Incredible job, you really did it.
47:57 Georgia Hardstark? You take it where you can get it, you know?
47:59 Karen Kilgariff? That's right.
47:59 Georgia Hardstark? Dave, because they didn't have Dave in the 70s, did they?
48:02 Karen Kilgariff? No, not at all, there was not one Dave. Okay, he gets on the 235 flight from Portland to Seattle. Shortly after takeoff, he passes a folded note to the stewardess sitting behind him, they were called that then.
48:18 Karen Kilgariff? I think the McNuts are here. Oh no, wrong side.
48:21 Georgia Hardstark? Someone has to pee. Oh, oh, they are.
48:24 Karen Kilgariff? Wrong side. So, Dan passes a note to the flight attendant sitting behind him, and she immediately takes it and puts it in her purse without reading it.
48:34 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, that's right. But she thinks he's hitting on her.
48:37 Karen Kilgariff? She's like, "Go away, gross man, in sunglasses."
48:40 Georgia Hardstark? This again.
48:41 Karen Kilgariff? He leans over and says, "Miss, you better have a look at that note. I have a bomb." She locks eyes with him, they fall deeply in love.
48:49 Georgia Hardstark? Aww.
48:52 Karen Kilgariff? Actually, what he does is he opens up her bag and he shows her what to her looks like four sticks of dynamite with wires attached. He then dictates his demands to her as she takes notes. And as he dictates those notes, they lock eyes and fall madly in love. Sorry, see, this is how I waste time. In the morning, I drink a bunch of coffee and I'm like, this is hilarious. And it's like, it's not, though. The flight attendant brings this list to the cockpit. The pilot is apprised of the situation. He radios CTAC, air traffic control, saying he needs $200,000, two sets of parachutes, to be ready when they land in Seattle. And that when that money comes on board, all the passengers will be released.
49:36 Karen Kilgariff? And they are, the plane is refueled, they head back toward Mexico. Dan demands that they lower the staircase in the plane. The pilot says, "That's bad for flying." He says, "I don't give a shit, I know you can do it." Then they do it. He jumps out of that fucking plane.
49:53 Georgia Hardstark? Do you think he wanted to do like a, um, like a Frank Sinatra, like step, kind of a step thing? "I did it my way." Whoa!
50:04 Karen Kilgariff? Sunglasses fly off.
50:09 Georgia Hardstark? Okay. Oh, there he is.
50:11 Karen Kilgariff? There he is. We've been talking about him this whole time. And actually, now those sunglasses are back in fashion. And I just want all the ladies in here that have those real narrow cross sunglasses, I want to let you know that much like eyebrow blindness from the 2010s, you're going to regret those sunglasses.
50:31 Karen Kilgariff? It's not that you're not gorgeous, it's just that they're so fucking stupid looking.
50:38 Karen Kilgariff? Let Grandma tell you about fashion. So.
50:45 Karen Kilgariff? He jumps out somewhere near Mount St. Helens he has never seen again. Some people think that that man is Richard Floyd McCoy. I covered that in episode 438. Why is there all these plugs for our shows?
51:02 Georgia Hardstark? We wish you guys would listen.
51:05 Karen Kilgariff? They're like, "We literally can't do more for you." But I tell you all of that tonight because there was a story in 2008 that very much, we can say, parallels the story of D.B. Cooper. It's another heist that happens up here. Very similar, some call it the modern-day D.B. Cooper case. This is the story of the 2008 robbery by D.B. Tuber.
51:32 Georgia Hardstark? What?
51:33 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
51:34 Georgia Hardstark? I can't believe we haven't talked about... Never mind.
51:36 Karen Kilgariff? What? Bring it up now.
51:38 Georgia Hardstark? The Louvre?
51:38 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, yeah.
51:39 Georgia Hardstark? The heist?
51:40 Karen Kilgariff? The chainsaw heist.
51:41 Georgia Hardstark? I don't want to talk about it.
51:45 Karen Kilgariff? Well, I do want to talk about it.
51:46 Georgia Hardstark? I did it. It turns out I did it.
51:49 Karen Kilgariff? How did you do that in between tour dates?
51:51 Georgia Hardstark? I can't, yeah.
51:52 Karen Kilgariff? You shouldn't talk about it.
51:53 Georgia Hardstark? No.
51:54 Karen Kilgariff? Okay. How is that tiara, though? Is it amazing? I love the idea that you're just going to steal the most famous jewels in the world and then just be like, "Sure, I'll sell them down."
52:07 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Someone's going to wear this crown to the fucking debutante ball. I don't know.
52:12 Karen Kilgariff? Sure. I can probably get 50 grand for this thing.
52:14 Georgia Hardstark? Did you notice my pearls?
52:15 Karen Kilgariff? They are gorgeous.
52:16 Georgia Hardstark? Clutching my pearls. Everyone loves pearls.
52:19 Karen Kilgariff? Clutch those. Get ready, because there's a lot of clutchy moments in this story. The sources that Maren used for this story are the 2014 episode of 2020 about it, entitled "The Almost Perfect Robbery." A 2010 article by writer David Kushner for GQ entitled "The All-American Bank Heist" and write-ups attributed to the FBI's Seattle Division. Some great writers in Seattle's FBI, so please read their substack.
52:45 Georgia Hardstark? I'm sorry I keep doing this, but one of my main sources was Jim Kirschner.
52:49 Karen Kilgariff? Do you think they're brothers? Do you think they're like, "This is David Kushner"?
52:53 Georgia Hardstark? Then never mind. They're half-brothers.
52:58 Karen Kilgariff? And then you're like, "Wait, it's Dan Kushner."
53:02 Karen Kilgariff? They're half brothers.
53:06 Karen Kilgariff? So to tell this story, first, we have to meet the man that it all centers around, the D.B. Cooper of the story, if you will. He is not a mystery man. His name is Anthony Curcio, and he is known as the, quote, "golden boy of Monroe, Washington."
53:24 Georgia Hardstark? For sure, sure.
53:26 Karen Kilgariff? Yes. For all you out-of-towners.
53:31 Georgia Hardstark? Welcome to Monroe. You guys, it's fucking adorable.
53:36 Karen Kilgariff? It's so cute. Keep that up while I tell you all this information. It's a small town on the outskirts of the Seattle area. Population just under 20,000, according to the 2020 census. You know for its 150-foot steam stack, which is the last remnant of the carnation milk condensary plant that burned down in 1944.
53:56 Georgia Hardstark? There it is.
53:56 Karen Kilgariff? There she is.
53:58 Georgia Hardstark? Under mysterious circumstances, or just burned down?
54:01 Karen Kilgariff? We don't talk about the carnation milk condensary fire around Monroe.
54:08 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
54:09 Karen Kilgariff? It's also the hometown of professional wrestler Yukon Eric.
54:13 Georgia Hardstark? Oh.
54:13 Karen Kilgariff? And the Stephen Ray Morris impersonator Benson Boone.
54:20 Georgia Hardstark? Really?
54:21 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
54:21 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, the pride of Monroe, Washington.
54:24 Karen Kilgariff? The pride of Monroe.
54:25 Georgia Hardstark? Cute.
54:25 Karen Kilgariff? He used to go smoke cigarettes on top of that smokestack and dream of a day he could have a mustache.
54:33 Georgia Hardstark? I'd like, I would move there right this very moment if you asked me to.
54:37 Karen Kilgariff? Hell, yeah.
54:38 Georgia Hardstark? I mean, no, it's terrible. It's the worst.
54:41 Karen Kilgariff? You guys, don't you dare.
54:43 Georgia Hardstark? No, I was saying no.
54:44 Karen Kilgariff? Don't you dare talk bad about Monroe.
54:46 Georgia Hardstark? Is it the Orange County of Washington? No, worse?
54:50 Karen Kilgariff? They're jealous because they don't have a creamery smokestack. And they never have. Okay. Sorry.
54:57 Georgia Hardstark? I'm not moving there.
55:00 Karen Kilgariff? We've all decided you're not going to. Okay, so Anthony's born and raised in Monroe. His parents run a very successful landscaping business. His dad is a former football star from the University of Idaho. Basically, hmm.
55:17 Karen Kilgariff? Basically, everyone in Monroe knows the Curcio family. And like his father, Anthony, when he gets to high school, he becomes a football star. I think the boys don't have a choice when their dad is a football star. Unless, of course, they get a nose ring. And then, oh my god, time to join a band. So he's basically, this guy's basically the jock from every teen movie. He's good-looking, he has tons of friends, he's the star wide receiver on the Monroe High football team. And just to be extra corny, he is dating Emily, the captain of the cheerleading squad.
55:52 Georgia Hardstark? They're never dating the cut nerds.
55:54 Karen Kilgariff? Look at him. Did you see Anthony Curcio at the kegger last night? Oh my god.
56:02 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, it's just 100% what you think it would be. And you know, it's funny because I don't know if we're like mad at him yet because I don't know the story, so.
56:12 Karen Kilgariff? I don't think you have to be mad at him.
56:14 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, great.
56:14 Karen Kilgariff? Unless, of course, you're jealous of his beautiful face and shirt. Okay. When he graduates, Anthony is offered an athletic scholarship to the University of Idaho where his father went. That part gave me a stomach ache. It's all going so well for Anthony, but the pendulum must always swing. She must always swing. Too much coffee. And then I wrote, "One day you're up, the next day you're down." That's life. That's called overwriting. That's called overstaying your welcome in the joke.
56:50 Karen Kilgariff? So, he makes it to his sophomore year in college, and then, one day at practice, he hears, oh, sorry.
57:01 Georgia Hardstark? Sorry.
57:02 Karen Kilgariff? He tears his ACL, but I was saying he hears himself tear his ACL.
57:07 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, I bet you can't hear it.
57:09 Karen Kilgariff? Like a pop. And then a fizz.
57:13 Karen Kilgariff? And then basically, for all intents and purposes, his football career is over.
57:18 Georgia Hardstark? Bummer.
57:19 Karen Kilgariff? So what happens is that while he is on the mend, he's prescribed Vicodin for the pain. But he can't play, of course. And then he's hanging out with his friends, and he's going to more parties than he usually goes to. And then the balance shifts. He will later say, quote, "I was depressed that my whole identity wrapped around sports was gone. Now I was just a student. I latched on to the painkillers, and within a few prescriptions, my football dream was gone. The pills had me."
57:50 Georgia Hardstark? Ouch.
57:50 Karen Kilgariff? Horrifying.
57:51 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
57:52 Karen Kilgariff? There's so many just innocent people that had an injury, and their doctor was like, "Hey, would you like heroin and a pill?" And they're like, "Oh, I guess so. I mean, you're the doctor." And boom.
58:03 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
58:03 Karen Kilgariff? It's horrible.
58:04 Georgia Hardstark? It's awful.
58:06 Karen Kilgariff? Did someone just yell, "That happened to my dad"? What's going on?
58:11 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, so this is the early 2000s.
58:13 Georgia Hardstark? Wait, or did they say that was my dad, like, the doctor? Like, their dad was the doctor?
58:17 Karen Kilgariff? Well, we can't talk about your dad right now. I'm sure he was a wonderful physician, but we have this fucking show to wrap up. I'm only on page four, Maureen. Okay.
58:34 Karen Kilgariff? So when Anthony's Vicodin prescription runs out, he gets desperate. He steals pills out of his friends' medicine cabinets. Who hasn't? He forges prescriptions, which, depending on the drug, can be a federal crime. So everyone in this room knows. Yes. And then inevitably, he turns to street drugs. And then soon, his addiction pivots to cocaine. And I know what you're thinking. He's gonna get into day trading and wearing Patagonia fleece vests all the time.
59:03 Georgia Hardstark? Straighten it out.
59:04 Karen Kilgariff? Right?
59:07 Karen Kilgariff? But before he goes that far, Anthony admits he's powerless over that white devil cocaine. And with the love and support of his family, he gets help with his addiction, and he does get sober. He graduates from college. Yeah, sure. That's a hard thing to do.
59:23 Georgia Hardstark? Hell, yeah.
59:23 Karen Kilgariff? When you're on a combination of Vicodin and fucking cocaine.
59:26 Georgia Hardstark? No, dude.
59:27 Karen Kilgariff? Jesus.
59:28 Georgia Hardstark? It's rough.
59:28 Karen Kilgariff? That's the first time I took pills. I was like, "Never take these again. These are... This is too easy. This is too good."
59:37 Georgia Hardstark? And you never did.
59:38 Karen Kilgariff? And I never did another joke again, mommy.
59:45 Karen Kilgariff? Then he graduates from college, I said that, moves back to Monroe and marries Emily, his high school sweetheart.
59:50 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
59:50 Karen Kilgariff? So even though Anthony's dreams of the NFL are over, his real life is very good. Him and Emily have two children, they earn a good living flipping houses. What if this was actually the secret story of Chip and Joanna Gaines? And I was just...
1:00:07 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my god.
1:00:08 Karen Kilgariff? Covering it up.
1:00:09 Georgia Hardstark? Like, I would like them so much.
1:00:11 Karen Kilgariff? So the Curciros, they drive NASCARs, they have a vacation home. On the surface, Anthony has earned back his status as Monroe's golden boy. Isn't it big of a deal to be a golden boy if it's in Monroe? Apparently, what you're telling us is it's not.
1:00:29 Karen Kilgariff? But again, being the golden boy, he gets to go touch the milk condensers steam stack whenever he wants to.
1:00:37 Karen Kilgariff? Amazing.
1:00:39 Georgia Hardstark? There it is.
1:00:40 Karen Kilgariff? Touch it.
1:00:43 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, but, but, but, 2008 hits and the housing market crashes and Anthony's entire livelihood goes out the window because, as I said, that pendulum, she-well swing. He picks up work with his parents' landscaping business. It's not enough to cover his bills. Before long, his family's financial problems are so enormous that they are actually in danger of losing their house. Been there, horrifying nightmare. I recommend starting a podcast with your friend.
1:01:15 Georgia Hardstark? Really helps.
1:01:16 Karen Kilgariff? Work for us.
1:01:19 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, thank you, guys, by the way. That was you.
1:01:21 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you.
1:01:22 Karen Kilgariff? You did it.
1:01:25 Karen Kilgariff? So crazy.
1:01:28 Georgia Hardstark? I never had a house to lose.
1:01:34 Karen Kilgariff? You're like, "I did that."
1:01:39 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, so with all those external stressors, Anthony relapses, but secretly Emily has no idea. He's only in his late twenties.
1:01:49 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, wow.
1:01:50 Karen Kilgariff? So, you know, he thought he was gonna live this life. And now it pivots and he's making the best of this life. And then, of course, outer life goes, "Watch your step, friend."
1:01:59 Georgia Hardstark? Right. You guys don't start worrying until you're like hard 48, you know?
1:02:03 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:02:04 Georgia Hardstark? Like, yeah, right?
1:02:06 Karen Kilgariff? There's plenty of chances to do all the things this guy's about to do. It is wild.
1:02:12 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
1:02:13 Karen Kilgariff? So, he's now back to losing everything to his drug addiction for a second time. And he finds himself sitting in the parking lot of a Jack in the Box. And these are dark times.
1:02:25 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:02:26 Karen Kilgariff? How many times have you sat in your car quietly in a fast food parking lot like, "I'm fucked."
1:02:32 Georgia Hardstark? This is it.
1:02:33 Karen Kilgariff? I'm fucked.
1:02:33 Georgia Hardstark? This is fucking, this is rock bottom, yeah.
1:02:36 Karen Kilgariff? And when you're in that situation, I recommend a sourdough Jack. Because it's simple, it's clean. The flavor profile is very satisfying, but you don't have to think a lot about it. No lettuce.
1:02:49 Georgia Hardstark? I fucked up the other day. There was a Jack in the Box near our office and I was starving after we recorded. And I went through the drive-through. It was the biggest mistake.
1:02:59 Karen Kilgariff? Did you go crazy with that, like, dollar meal or something where you're...
1:03:02 Georgia Hardstark? Because I didn't know what I wanted because I was starving and I wanted to shove something in my face. Eating a burger in the car isn't gonna work, so I...
1:03:07 Karen Kilgariff? Can I guess?
1:03:08 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
1:03:09 Karen Kilgariff? Chicken strips.
1:03:10 Georgia Hardstark? Chicken nuggets, like, not even good, like, not even close to real chicken.
1:03:14 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:03:16 Georgia Hardstark? The tacos, though.
1:03:17 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, stop it.
1:03:19 Georgia Hardstark? My god, they're so fucking good.
1:03:21 Karen Kilgariff? The tacos are like you get to open a little piece of foil and it's like, "High school, ah!"
1:03:27 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, it's like a cracker, it's like a taco cracker, anyway.
1:03:30 Karen Kilgariff? A taco cracker with grease poured into it. It's like they cook them and they open them back up and they're like, "Get the orange grease and drip it in."
1:03:39 Georgia Hardstark? And there's lettuce, so it's healthy.
1:03:41 Karen Kilgariff? There is lettuce, but it's hot lettuce. And that is a brave choice. It's a brave culinary choice.
1:03:47 Georgia Hardstark? It was good.
1:03:48 Karen Kilgariff? When we start our Cuisines Podcast, we are going to destroy... Okay.
1:03:56 Karen Kilgariff? Reset to where we are.
1:03:57 Georgia Hardstark? Stop it, yes, right, this is important.
1:03:59 Karen Kilgariff? Jack in the Box parking lot, Dark Knight of the Soul.
1:04:02 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
1:04:04 Karen Kilgariff? Anthony is angry for what's happening with the economy and his family. He's angry at the banks. And he's right. Uh, but he's also angry because he's on drugs. And he is desperate to keep feeding his addiction at all costs. So, uh, what's going on inside his drug-addled mind as he sits in his car in the parking, Jack in the Box parking lot, um, is all that, you know, whose fault is it? I'm so angry. And as he's staring out, he watches a Brink's truck pull up in front of the Bank of America across the street. He watches the Brink's guards hop out, transporting big bags of cash into, or perhaps out of, I'm not sure, allegedly, the bank. And this gets him thinking.
1:04:49 Karen Kilgariff? He thinks, if I just had one of those bags, all of my problems would be solved. And here's a quote he later gives about this moment in his life. He says, quote, "I was fucked and I thought I could fix everything. I just wanted to be the hero again."
1:05:03 Georgia Hardstark? Mmm.
1:05:05 Karen Kilgariff? Anthony. So, if you, right now, your only elective in high school is football, go ahead and take a music class.
1:05:16 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, yeah.
1:05:17 Karen Kilgariff? How about, how about some fun writing classes? Just see, just to see. Let's have several safety nets, please. So when Anthony gets home, he Googles the phrase armored truck robbery.
1:05:28 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, no. Oh, man.
1:05:34 Karen Kilgariff? He was just trying to get a little information.
1:05:37 Georgia Hardstark? Sure.
1:05:38 Karen Kilgariff? The more he reads-
1:05:39 Georgia Hardstark? Who among us hasn't? Everyone has that in their search history, right?
1:05:42 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, that's right.
1:05:43 Georgia Hardstark? But only a few of us have done it.
1:05:44 Karen Kilgariff? That's right.
1:05:49 Karen Kilgariff? I, I, I wish we had our phones so we could just read each other our most recent Google search history.
1:05:55 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, God.
1:05:56 Karen Kilgariff? Mine is definitely which one is stronger, Vicodin or whatever the fuck other thing he was taking. Something like that.
1:06:03 Georgia Hardstark? But not for yourself.
1:06:04 Karen Kilgariff? What? No, not at all.
1:06:07 Karen Kilgariff? Not in the least.
1:06:09 Georgia Hardstark? But Vince comes out here with both our phones and he's like, "Do it."
1:06:12 Karen Kilgariff? Do it. Read it.
1:06:17 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, so the more he reads, the more certain he is that he can pull one of these off. He goes for some light research to actual planning mode almost immediately. He's gonna rob the Brink's guards as they deliver money to that Bank of America in Monroe. So what he does is, he begins to case the bank in disguise. He puts on some generic landscaper clothing, because it's family business. But he also then goes and somehow gets some morticians' wax, the ones that morticians use to make people's faces look normal when they're for the viewing.
1:06:48 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:06:49 Karen Kilgariff? And he uses that to obscure his facial features, because don't forget, he's the golden boy of Monroe.
1:06:56 Georgia Hardstark? Right. No.
1:06:59 Karen Kilgariff? Okay.
1:07:00 Georgia Hardstark? Hello, everybody.
1:07:03 Karen Kilgariff? Thanks, thanks, thanks.
1:07:05 Georgia Hardstark? All right.
1:07:06 Karen Kilgariff? The morticians, right underneath that smokestack, just directly beneath it. Okay, so he starts casing the building. He studies the entrances and exits, the number of staff, when the Brink's delivery and pickup schedule is, any escape routes. He gives it the full statham.
1:07:28 Karen Kilgariff? And then I wrote here a little exchange.
1:07:32 Karen Kilgariff? Do you want to do the first lady and I'll be the second lady?
1:07:34 Georgia Hardstark? I'm first?
1:07:35 Karen Kilgariff? You're first. And do a lady voice.
1:07:37 Georgia Hardstark? Joan, was that the golden boy of Monroe I saw casing the B of A today?
1:07:42 Karen Kilgariff? No, Maureen, don't be crazy. That was just a reanimated corpse from the funeral home pretending to trim a hedge.
1:07:50 Karen Kilgariff? Sometimes, sometimes there's too much time to work on these stories.
1:07:56 Karen Kilgariff? So.
1:08:00 Karen Kilgariff? Anthony decides that the best bet for his escape route is to run out of the bank, across the busy intersection, and down into the local creek.
1:08:11 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
1:08:12 Karen Kilgariff? That's drugs in action, my friends.
1:08:14 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, yeah.
1:08:15 Karen Kilgariff? Run it by someone.
1:08:17 Georgia Hardstark? Drugs have the worst ideas.
1:08:19 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, wild.
1:08:23 Karen Kilgariff? So he believes that if he could just stash a jet ski down in the creek...
1:08:28 Georgia Hardstark? Fuuuuck.
1:08:31 Georgia Hardstark? Fuck.
1:08:32 Karen Kilgariff? We're getting into the territory of, uh, your friend's the bartender, the bar's closed, you've done some lines, and now you're just
1:08:38 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:08:39 Karen Kilgariff? coming up with ideas.
1:08:43 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
1:08:45 Karen Kilgariff? Mm-hmm. The problem is that the creek is less than two feet deep.
1:08:51 Georgia Hardstark? Right. Oh, hey-o.
1:08:53 Karen Kilgariff? There she is. There she is. It's not jet ski territory in any way, shape, or form.
1:08:59 Georgia Hardstark? No, no.
1:09:01 Karen Kilgariff? Gorgeous, though.
1:09:02 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:09:03 Karen Kilgariff? Truly beautiful.
1:09:04 Georgia Hardstark? It's kind of a dear.
1:09:06 Karen Kilgariff? So, he's gonna steal the cash, run across the intersection in the light of day, climb down into the creek, get on his waiting jet ski, ride downstream a short way with stolen bags of cash, ditch that jet ski, climb back up out of the creek to a nearby road to his pre-parked get- every car and drive away.
1:09:24 Georgia Hardstark? Is it? Okay.
1:09:25 Karen Kilgariff? It's fun, it's easy, no one gets hurt. But what, and, when Anthony tests this plan out with an actual jet ski in that actual creek, he does a dry run, a wet run, but a lightly moist run, because there's hardly any fucking water.
1:09:39 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:09:41 Karen Kilgariff? That's when he realizes that the plan isn't gonna work. The creek is too shallow.
1:09:46 Georgia Hardstark? And he doesn't do it, and that's the end of the story.
1:09:47 Karen Kilgariff? I wish it were.
1:09:50 Karen Kilgariff? Instead of coming up with a new plan, Anthony spends upwards of seven hours a day for several weeks dredging the creek to make it deeper so he can ride a jet ski on it. Yes, he does. You can say no all you want. That's what happens.
1:10:06 Georgia Hardstark? I refuse.
1:10:07 Karen Kilgariff? You can't refuse.
1:10:09 Georgia Hardstark? I mean, you might as well, like, ice it over and fucking ice skate away, like, for everything.
1:10:15 Karen Kilgariff? Like Snoopy at the beginning of the Christmas special, where he's just like, "Now I have this money."
1:10:19 Georgia Hardstark? It's, yeah, okay. Oh, okay. We don't wanna like, I don't wanna, you know, he, we, he needs But that is.
1:10:27 Karen Kilgariff? It's great to have big ideas and get creative and try to push the boundaries, but you can't change the way fucking water works. You just, that's not on you. Okay. When he's done with his one-man civil engineering scheme, Anthony does another practice run with the jet ski in the creek. This time, he hits a big rock. So it's not just about getting the bottom lower.
1:10:55 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:10:55 Karen Kilgariff? It's also then there's the other things in the creek that are difficult.
1:10:58 Georgia Hardstark? Honey.
1:10:59 Karen Kilgariff? Now he knows he has to let go of the jet ski plan. He goes back to the Jack-in-the-Box parking lot. And he cries into a taco.
1:11:10 Karen Kilgariff? And then he goes back to the drawing board. And then he finally sees it so clearly. He needs to swap the jet ski for an inner tube.
1:11:21 Georgia Hardstark? Because there was an inner tube in that picture. And I was like, don't mention it. Because there's no fucking way. It just was like in that photo.
1:11:27 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, it was like waiting like a little specter back there. Yeah.
1:11:34 Karen Kilgariff? There she is. That's the real one he actually used. He literally like took his daughter's inner tube.
1:11:42 Georgia Hardstark? No.
1:11:43 Karen Kilgariff? And was like, quickly let daddy rob the Brim's truck.
1:11:47 Georgia Hardstark? Oh my God, he like straight up lazy rivered that shit out of there. Holy shit.
1:11:52 Karen Kilgariff? He lazy, he lazy rivered it.
1:11:56 Karen Kilgariff? And you know what he did too? I don't, I don't know if it's right here or where it happened, but he actually nailed a wire from like one tree where he first ran into the creek. All the way down 200 yards to where he planned to come up out. So he was like doing this.
1:12:12 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, I mean, that makes sense. But it's also like fingerprint, fingerprint, fingerprint.
1:12:17 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:12:18 Georgia Hardstark? Over and over again.
1:12:19 Karen Kilgariff? Or just like, dude, just run down the goddamn block at this point. Now you're just kind of partying by yourself in the creek.
1:12:29 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:12:29 Karen Kilgariff? Or at least get a stoner friend to do it with you. Like that's what creeks are for.
1:12:33 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
1:12:34 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:12:36 Karen Kilgariff? So at this point, Anthony's been planning the robbery for several months. And he's almost ready to pull the trigger, but he has a couple of final tasks. The first order of business, he has to stash some supplies, including that inner tube, under a nearby dumpster. So that's, he basically is gonna squirrel away, very druggie. He's gonna squirrel away all the things he needs as he does this thing. When he does that, he is, it is, the action is witnessed by a 53-year-old man named Alan Dean. So Alan, uh, himself, this is Alan.
1:13:15 Karen Kilgariff? This is from Alan's interview on 2020. Oh, wow. So you can go watch that episode. So at the time, Alan is experiencing homelessness, and he had been since the 90s, when a heart condition made it impossible for him to continue working as a carpenter. Um, and since that time, he'd been panhandling around Monroe. And his plan was to save up enough money to get a car so that he could drive back, uh, to the East Coast where his children live, because he had a family. Uh, he's a sharp guy, um, and by his own telling, he stays sharp by buying two newspapers every day. He reads them cover to cover, and then he does the crossword puzzles, every single day without fail.
1:13:57 Karen Kilgariff? So when he sees Anthony, uh, roll up into that dumpster and hide the inner tube. Oh, wow, yeah. Along with a huge can of mace, a wig, and other suspicious items. Alan puts two and two together, and he yells over to Anthony, "I'm on to you!"
1:14:17 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, no.
1:14:20 Karen Kilgariff? I've seen this before, inner tube, wig, mace, I know what you're doing, bank. Oh, man. It's also a very fun thing to yell at a stranger at any time, just like. Yes. Right? Across the street, they're walking this way, you're walking that. I'm on you!
1:14:41 Karen Kilgariff? Of course, Anthony is very rattled by this. Because he's doing something, he's planning something illegal. And he's on drugs. He doesn't know Alan, he's never seen him before. But he just ultimately brushes the comment off. He decides to leave all the items where they are because even though someone's on to him, that's fine.
1:14:58 Georgia Hardstark? It doesn't mean he's a snitch.
1:15:00 Karen Kilgariff? And he's probably just so focused on like me and that inner tube and the wire. It's gonna be amazing.
1:15:04 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:15:06 Karen Kilgariff? He will later admit that he underestimated Alan, thinking, quote, "Well, maybe if he's homeless, maybe if he's been drinking, maybe he won't remember my description." But Anthony could not be more mistaken. Alan will later say, quote, "He probably thought, 'Just an old tramp. He ain't gonna do nothing. He ain't gonna write my tag number down.'" Wrong. Game over.
1:15:31 Georgia Hardstark? Oh my god.
1:15:32 Karen Kilgariff? Wrong, game over.
1:15:35 Karen Kilgariff? This is Alan's time to shine.
1:15:36 Georgia Hardstark? Game over. I'm on to you. Like, he's got them all.
1:15:40 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, he does. So Alan, basically, when he sees Anthony do all of this, he grabs his crossword pencil and he write downs Anthony's license plate number.
1:15:51 Georgia Hardstark? Shit.
1:15:53 Karen Kilgariff? Meanwhile, Anthony's busy checking the last item off of his to-do list. Hiring decoys. What's that you say?
1:16:03 Karen Kilgariff? What he does, and this is, I mean, here's the thing. All this energy and creativity. He really made a plan and he really got something going. Just for bad reasons, but there's a lot of creativity involved. And he's good-looking, so let's defend him.
1:16:20 Karen Kilgariff? He posts a fake landscaping job on Craigslist under the name Clean Monroe Beautification Project. They add claims to pay $28.50 an hour.
1:16:30 Georgia Hardstark? Damn.
1:16:31 Karen Kilgariff? Do you know how much that is in today's money?
1:16:33 Georgia Hardstark? It's probably less, actually.
1:16:37 Georgia Hardstark? Right?
1:16:38 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:16:41 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, it's less than you can't get an abortion, so...
1:16:47 Karen Kilgariff? Did you not know?
1:16:51 Karen Kilgariff? A very nice wage during the Great Recession. That's a weird line.
1:16:58 Karen Kilgariff? Do you want to guess on my?
1:16:58 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna go...
1:17:02 Georgia Hardstark? Thirty-nine, fifty-three.
1:17:03 Karen Kilgariff? Forty-two.
1:17:04 Georgia Hardstark? God damn it.
1:17:05 Karen Kilgariff? You know, now I'm on your side. It's not fun.
1:17:07 Georgia Hardstark? I'm saying, let's get rid of this.
1:17:08 Karen Kilgariff? It's so hard, though. It's fun to guess. Okay, about fifteen people respond to this fake job listing. Anthony follows up with the start time of 11:00 a.m. on Tuesday, September 30th. He says they need to report to the strip of pavement between the Jack in the Box and the Bank of America.
1:17:25 Georgia Hardstark? Shut up!
1:17:26 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
1:17:28 Karen Kilgariff? I meet my friends there all the time. It's so gorgeous. Have you been to Monroe?
1:17:33 Georgia Hardstark? It's so gorgeous. I can't keep turning around. I truly can't.
1:17:37 Karen Kilgariff? Just give the guy one second. He wasn't even paying attention.
1:17:41 Karen Kilgariff? I'm really sorry. I won't do it again. Okay.
1:17:46 Karen Kilgariff? He tells them they need to wear a yellow safety vest, a blue hat, a blue shirt, a face mask, and safety glasses.
1:17:52 Georgia Hardstark? Wow, I mean, these people...
1:17:55 Karen Kilgariff? This is the 2020 episode reenactment of what that looked like. No joke.
1:18:01 Georgia Hardstark? Because they all have the same Adidas on, too.
1:18:05 Karen Kilgariff? Wait, this could be AI.
1:18:06 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, shit.
1:18:07 Karen Kilgariff? No, it's not. It's not.
1:18:08 Georgia Hardstark? Okay. Wow, okay. I mean, that's... This is kind of brilliant.
1:18:12 Karen Kilgariff? It's getting, right?
1:18:13 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:18:14 Karen Kilgariff? So, here's what happens. So, they're all standing there. They're waiting for the boss to show up to tell them what to do. And what they don't know is the boss is already there, because there's this landscaper that's over in front of, like, the bushes in front of Jack in the Box that's spraying, like, you know, pesticides or something horrifying. Brown... He's just rounding up all of Jack in the Box. And he's dressed in the exact same clothes, but he's wearing that wig that he loves so much that he had stashed away. At 11:05 a.m., when the Brink's truck rolls into the Bank of America parking lot, Anthony drops the sprayer. He grabs the can of mace that he's stashed nearby and makes a beeline
1:18:57 Karen Kilgariff? for the Brink's guards, who are on their way into the bank carrying a bag of cash that has $400,000 inside.
1:19:05 Karen Kilgariff? And that's around 600 in today's money. And that's the actual, this is the spot. This is the real crime scene, right here.
1:19:11 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
1:19:12 Karen Kilgariff? So according to reports, Anthony sprays the guards with enough mace to quote stun a thousand pound grizzly bear.
1:19:20 Georgia Hardstark? What are they even making an hour, them? Like, fuck that, okay.
1:19:25 Karen Kilgariff? It feels so high risk.
1:19:27 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:19:28 Karen Kilgariff? But, you know, hopefully they make, they make more than 28.50 an hour, or whatever the other thing was. So, of course, the guards scream in pain. They drop the bag. Anthony grabs it and he runs across the busy intersection and down into the creek.
1:19:43 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
1:19:45 Karen Kilgariff? Even though he's wearing a wig and a face mask, many people watch him flee in the direction of the creek, and he's also almost hit by a truck.
1:19:52 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, okay.
1:19:54 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. Authorities are called, and when the two Monroe City detectives, Detective Barry Hatch and Detective Tim Buzz Bazell, sure.
1:20:06 Karen Kilgariff? Buzz's family is here tonight.
1:20:09 Karen Kilgariff? When they arrive on the scene, it's filled with 15 confused day workers standing around, wondering what the hell is going on, all dressed exactly like the description of the thief.
1:20:20 Georgia Hardstark? No, yeah, it's really fucking brilliant.
1:20:21 Karen Kilgariff? It's so smart.
1:20:22 Georgia Hardstark? It's so smart.
1:20:23 Karen Kilgariff? Uh, do I get my 30 bucks or what?
1:20:26 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, yeah.
1:20:28 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:20:31 Karen Kilgariff? Do, do, do. So before long, the detectives have collective witness statements describing their perp as tall, thin, and running with a Brink's bag under his arm, quote, "like a football." Sure.
1:20:43 Georgia Hardstark? Oh.
1:20:44 Karen Kilgariff? Like a golden boy would. When they inspect Wood Creek, they find the abandoned black and yellow inner tube with a picture of a bee on it, about 200 yards down the creek, along with a pair of discarded safety glasses, a wig, and a face mask. The face mask has saliva on it. They process the mask as DNA evidence, but there are no matches in the system.
1:21:08 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
1:21:12 Karen Kilgariff? I can't believe you're on Anthony's side.
1:21:16 Karen Kilgariff? Guys, Emily's here tonight, ladies and gentlemen.
1:21:19 Georgia Hardstark? You fucking badass.
1:21:21 Karen Kilgariff? No matches in this system because Anthony does not have a record.
1:21:24 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
1:21:25 Karen Kilgariff? So, this is when detectives Buzz and Hatch learn that they should meet Pearl McNutt.
1:21:34 Karen Kilgariff? They learn that three weeks earlier, a tipster had reported what were referred to as robbery-type items under a dumpster near the bank, along with the license plate number of the person who put those items there.
1:21:46 Georgia Hardstark? Man.
1:21:47 Karen Kilgariff? And when the detectives run that license plate number, they trace the car to the Curcio family.
1:21:51 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, it's so, so quick.
1:21:53 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:21:54 Georgia Hardstark? You know, give him a day with that money, you know?
1:21:56 Karen Kilgariff? Well, he gets a, he gets a couple of days.
1:21:59 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
1:22:00 Karen Kilgariff? Because before they go talk to the family, they want to confirm the tipster's story, and it takes a little time, tracking down Alan, and they basically ask around town, you know, it's word of mouth, you know, who this guy is, whatever. And they finally find him, and when they first walk up to him, he yells, "It's, it's about time you got here."
1:22:27 Karen Kilgariff? And then he said, "I'm on to you," but real quiet, real scary.
1:22:31 Georgia Hardstark? Cause he is.
1:22:32 Karen Kilgariff? Cause he is, fully.
1:22:33 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:22:34 Karen Kilgariff? He actually had read all about the robbery in the newspaper, and he was like, "I'm waiting for you to fucking come and talk to me. I know exactly what happened in this robbery."
1:22:43 Georgia Hardstark? Amazing.
1:22:43 Karen Kilgariff? You fools. Okay. Meanwhile, across town, Anthony cannot believe he has pulled off this big heist. What he actually did was he, he ran back up out of the creek, and he walked through an apartment complex, he stole a shirt, like a white polo shirt that was kind of too small for him, and then he walked into a real estate office, and because he does house flipping, they kind of knew who he was, and of course, the Curcio family is very known in Monroe. And so he was like, "Hey, can I use your phone? My phone died." He calls his friend to come pick it up, pick him up, and he, that's his getaway car. But nobody really knows that that's what's happening. Except for if they looked down, they would have seen that his shoes were wet.
1:23:25 Georgia Hardstark? Okay. Not the weirdest thing. Where's the money? I'm sorry, I'm really worried about this money. Where's the big bag of money?
1:23:33 Karen Kilgariff? He stashed it, he loves to stash things.
1:23:35 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, I would never do that.
1:23:37 Karen Kilgariff? No, I actually don't know if that's true.
1:23:38 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
1:23:39 Karen Kilgariff? What if he was just kind of very casually holding it behind his back? But then that means he had to hold the phone like this and then dial with this hand. We could work out every scenario.
1:23:52 Karen Kilgariff? Okay. So Anthony can't believe it. He takes the money. He pays off his biggest bills. He buys his wife a beautiful tennis bracelet and he invests in some bonds. No, that's not what happened.
1:24:07 Karen Kilgariff? I read that wrong. Anthony rushes off to Las Vegas with his friends and $30,000 in stolen cash.
1:24:13 Georgia Hardstark? Oh my god.
1:24:15 Karen Kilgariff? There, he gambles away the money, or a bunch of money. He hires a guide to get him and his friends into all the big clubs. I didn't know you could do that. He parties with women who are not his wife.
1:24:26 Georgia Hardstark? No.
1:24:27 Karen Kilgariff? And, among other sinful things, he attends an event celebrating the release of Jessica Simpson's latest single.
1:24:36 Georgia Hardstark? What?
1:24:39 Karen Kilgariff? Men.
1:24:41 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, you men.
1:24:44 Karen Kilgariff? But he is not enjoying himself, because this is actually the irony of being on drugs and all of this stuff, is you basically surround yourself in all the things you think are going to make you happy, and then you're miserable, and then you're very fucking confused.
1:24:58 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:24:58 Karen Kilgariff? At one point, he's super drunk. He's in like the, you know, the place they stay in The Hangover? That crazy, huge penthouse suite?
1:25:06 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:25:07 Karen Kilgariff? They're in like one of those.
1:25:08 Georgia Hardstark? Jesus.
1:25:09 Karen Kilgariff? He's like crying in the shower and fucking, where you're like, uh-oh, someone better go talk to her.
1:25:17 Karen Kilgariff? And then he like comes out and he tries to recover, and then he does a thing where he tells his friends, "I can jump over this glass coffee table," and they're like, "Don't do it." And he does it, and he breaks his fucking elbow.
1:25:27 Georgia Hardstark? Wait, seriously?
1:25:28 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
1:25:29 Georgia Hardstark? I was just from The Hangover.
1:25:30 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, sorry. No, no, this is real.
1:25:32 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, no, what?
1:25:33 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:25:35 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
1:25:35 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
1:25:36 Georgia Hardstark? Wow, okay.
1:25:37 Karen Kilgariff? So, he basically... Goes back home and he tells, of course, he walks in with this fucking like, his arm in a sling. Emily's pissed, she's like, "Where have you been?" He basically, she suspects he's using drugs again. She's been his girlfriend since they were in high school. She knows this man and she knows what he's doing. But he tells her he's coming to some money after pulling off a really lucrative real estate deal and that it's fine now and everything's gonna be okay. So she knows it's not, but she, she's just like, "At least he's back and he's alive and, you know, we'll go from here." But she has no idea that the Brink's thief who's going viral on the internet at this point is her husband.
1:26:19 Karen Kilgariff? And when someone calls into a local radio show and refers to him as DB Tuber, the nickname is set.
1:26:26 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, Tuber because of the inner tube.
1:26:29 Karen Kilgariff? The fucking inner tube.
1:26:32 Georgia Hardstark? I thought it was like two, the second. DB Tuber.
1:26:36 Karen Kilgariff? DB Tuber.
1:26:38 Georgia Hardstark? Who came up with that?
1:26:40 Karen Kilgariff? Right?
1:26:41 Georgia Hardstark? That's brilliant.
1:26:42 Karen Kilgariff? Yes. Yes, yes. Do you want to go on the rest of this tour with us? This is what we need. Okay. I'm almost there. Got it. What Anthony doesn't know is that now not only are detectives Buzz and Hatch, Buzz and Hatch, tailing him, but the FBI is too. Because of course, robbing a Brink's truck is a federal crime. So, one afternoon, they're both, I guess, surveilling Anthony's movements and they watch as he tosses a Gatorade bottle into a public trash can. They go grab it, hoping it contains DNA that'll match that saliva that was found on the discarded
1:27:26 Karen Kilgariff? face mask in the crick. When it's proven to be a match, Buzz and Hatch prepare for an arrest. So on November 3rd, 2008, about a month after the Brink's truck robbery, Anthony Kursio is taken into custody in a Target parking lot. This is the part where I was having a great time for the rest of this, for the beginning of this story, and then it changes for me. He reportedly told the arresting officers, "This is slander. Do you know who my father is?"
1:27:57 Georgia Hardstark? See, you gotta shut your fucking mouth. Okay.
1:28:01 Karen Kilgariff? That's his mugshot. That's Anthony. Do you know who my father is?
1:28:06 Karen Kilgariff? And it's like, the question, Anthony, is do you know who you are?
1:28:11 Karen Kilgariff? Right? In his face.
1:28:14 Karen Kilgariff? Quick update: As of last month, the Target boycott over their DEI rollback has cost the company over $12 billion in market value. $12 billion.
1:28:28 Karen Kilgariff? Collective action works. Vote with your motherfucking wallet. Stop letting these people ruin everything.
1:28:45 Karen Kilgariff? Target was our third space. Target, when I went home to Petaluma for the holidays, me and my sister would just go hang out in Target, and we would see everyone we knew. It was like reunions in the makeup aisle and shit. And it's fucking ruined. What's nice, though, is no one's in the Target in Petaluma anymore. They just don't go.
1:29:02 Georgia Hardstark? I love it.
1:29:03 Karen Kilgariff? No one goes. It's great. It's great. You're not allowed to pretend that you're super DEI until that motherfucker gets in the office and suddenly you're like, "Oh, no, no, no. We don't do that anymore."
1:29:15 Georgia Hardstark? We don't have to do that anymore? Great.
1:29:16 Karen Kilgariff? Bullshit. Okay, sorry.
1:29:23 Karen Kilgariff? Can we please focus on true crime? It is a true crime, though. That's the craziest part. When Anthony's arrested, he has $17,000 in cash on his person. It takes eight members of the Monroe Police Force nearly four hours to hand-count all of that cash.
1:29:44 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, they have to keep starting over?
1:29:49 Karen Kilgariff? Don't come in here and tell us the score to the game. We're trying to fucking count.
1:29:55 Georgia Hardstark? That money was so dirty. I bet.
1:29:57 Karen Kilgariff? Well, you know what's funny? When he went home out of the crick, when his friend dropped him off, he went in and he dried a lot of the money from the crick in his own dryer, because it was soaking wet from being down there with him.
1:30:10 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, this isn't Breaking Bad.
1:30:12 Karen Kilgariff? Fucking crazy. So Anthony pleads guilty. He winds up going to prison for six years. He's released in 2013, having also completed a drug treatment program. He and Emily eventually reconcile. And once he gets his family back, he hits the public speaking circuit to warn kids about drugs and crime. And tearing your ACL.
1:30:36 Karen Kilgariff? I bet that slipped in there, too.
1:30:38 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:30:39 Karen Kilgariff? Alan Dean winds up getting the reward money for his tip.
1:30:46 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
1:30:48 Karen Kilgariff? We don't know how much that was, but it's enough to buy a car. And according to writer David Kushner for GQ, Alan plans on finally hitting the road to get back to his family. It goes without saying that addiction is brutal. And while it doesn't excuse Anthony's actions, it puts those choices into perspective a little bit. Dredging the creek is beyond the pale. I don't care how many lines of coke you've done.
1:31:14 Georgia Hardstark? I mean, that's some like gummy salad confession. You know what I mean? I just watched the most fucked up gummy salad confession of like things I did on drugs. And like, that would be on that list, for sure.
1:31:26 Karen Kilgariff? I dredged the local creek and ruined...
1:31:28 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:31:29 Karen Kilgariff? I ruined the entire ecosystem of our local creek.
1:31:32 Georgia Hardstark? And I brought Nerds gummy clusters.
1:31:37 Karen Kilgariff? Solid.
1:31:37 Georgia Hardstark? Solid.
1:31:39 Karen Kilgariff? But here's the thing. Anthony has always been very candid about everything that he's done. He actually was quoted as saying, "I had justified that I was doing this for my family. But you know what? Someone that is doing this for their family wouldn't have gambled with them. You should never gamble with something you are not willing to lose." And that's the story of one of the most audacious heists in the Seattle metro history, the DB tuber Brink robbery.
1:32:08 Karen Kilgariff? There he is.
1:32:11 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
1:32:12 Karen Kilgariff? Now he's saying, "Do you know who my father is?" But in a really nice voice.
1:32:17 Georgia Hardstark? Wow. I, that's incredible. I've never heard that.
1:32:20 Karen Kilgariff? Right? Me either.
1:32:21 Georgia Hardstark? DBtuber is the funniest thing I've ever heard.
1:32:24 Karen Kilgariff? DBtuber?
1:32:25 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:32:25 Karen Kilgariff? That's, we can't let go of call-in radio. We must protect call-in radio.
1:32:30 Georgia Hardstark? The holidays are right around the corner, which means people are about to do a lot of shopping.
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1:34:27 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
1:34:28 Georgia Hardstark? You know a favorite M word?
1:34:30 Karen Kilgariff? Magnesium.
1:34:31 Georgia Hardstark? Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.
1:34:33 Karen Kilgariff? Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals powered by pure Epsom salt and natural Dead Sea salt, it's designed to help you relax and get in the right state of mind for a good night's rest.
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1:34:55 Karen Kilgariff? Dr. Teal's magnesium spray comes in a lightweight, fast drying formula.
1:34:58 Georgia Hardstark? Just shake it up and generously spritz onto the soles of your feet and massage until absorbed.
1:35:03 Karen Kilgariff? I was kind of blown away the first time I used this spray because I do have problems sleeping. And when there's something this simple, you just sprayed on your feet and suddenly you're asleep and the next morning you're like, wait, what happened? Did my problem just get solved? Like, it actually is that easy.
1:35:18 Georgia Hardstark? And your stinky feet now smell like lavender. Like, what more do you want?
1:35:21 Karen Kilgariff? How dare you call my feet stinky?
1:35:24 Georgia Hardstark? For wellness you can feel, find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle.
1:35:29 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye. All right, should we get, should we wrap this up?
1:35:33 Georgia Hardstark? Time for hometown?
1:35:35 Speaker 06 What up, bro?
1:35:36 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Vince Averill.
1:35:40 Speaker 06 It's me from before.
1:35:42 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, I forgot to read that email.
1:35:46 Speaker 06 Were you guys talking about Jack in the Box?
1:35:47 Karen Kilgariff? A little bit.
1:35:48 Speaker 06 It's appropriate. That place killed four children in 1993.
1:35:51 Georgia Hardstark? He always says this whenever Jack in the Box gets brought up.
1:35:55 Speaker 06 I bet Dick's driving never killed no kids.
1:35:59 Speaker 06 What are you talking about?
1:36:02 Speaker 06 I'm gonna be over there at that exit sign.
1:36:03 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, thank you, baby. Every single time Jack in the Box comes up, gets brought up. It's so Gen X, isn't it?
1:36:10 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, it was a very disturbing time. But does he not like it? Is that his argument against?
1:36:15 Georgia Hardstark? No, I think he just will think about it all the time.
1:36:18 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, that's like when, if people talk about, if people talk about Taco Bell, then I have to talk about how they've, they've tested the meat and they found that it was majority sawdust. And I, I didn't even pause. I think I went there two days later.
1:36:31 Georgia Hardstark? You're like, ooh, that sounds great.
1:36:33 Karen Kilgariff? I must love sawdust and I must be a little fucking hamster because gimme that sawdust.
1:36:41 Georgia Hardstark? There was definitely a rumor when I was in high school and veganism was like super popular and they said that the Jack in the Box tacos, there was no actual meat in them. It was just like, and so everyone... I was like, great. And I bet a lot of those poor vegans got real sick after that. I don't think that's true. Anyway, here we are.
1:36:59 Karen Kilgariff? Here we are. It's time for you guys to tell us a hometown. We'll very quickly tell you how to do it. Even though we know you know. No, you have to listen to it.
1:37:10 Karen Kilgariff? You can't be so drunk, you can't tell your own story. Please let it have a beginning, a middle, and an end. Please, the ending is probably the most important.
1:37:19 Karen Kilgariff? Don't use notes, you don't have to, you always know it. And finally.
1:37:23 Georgia Hardstark? Local.
1:37:24 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, please make it local. The rest of you hate it so much when it's not local.
1:37:29 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:37:31 Georgia Hardstark? So, do you actually want to? I'm gonna turn away and you can actually choose this time.
1:37:34 Karen Kilgariff? We're all gonna turn away. And you guys turn away too. Try to turn away, see if you can.
1:37:39 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God. You wanna pick?
1:37:41 Karen Kilgariff? No, you do it. You got it. Last night was amazing and you did it. Just follow your heart.
1:37:45 Georgia Hardstark? I hate this.
1:37:46 Karen Kilgariff? Really look into each person's face.
1:37:49 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect. Go to this. Sorry, everyone else. This is the worst. I hate it.
1:37:57 Karen Kilgariff? Only one person gets to come up. And that means everybody else hates our guts and we don't care.
1:38:05 Georgia Hardstark? I care.
1:38:05 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, I care too.
1:38:06 Georgia Hardstark? I care so much.
1:38:07 Karen Kilgariff? I just keep saying I don't care.
1:38:10 Georgia Hardstark? Guys, be quiet.
1:38:12 Karen Kilgariff? She comes. Hi.
1:38:19 Georgia Hardstark? Cory? It's Cory, everyone.
1:38:21 Karen Kilgariff? It's Cory. Hi Cory. Nice to meet you.
1:38:25 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you.
1:38:26 Karen Kilgariff? Are you ready to do this thing? An honor. It's so great to have you here, Cory.
1:38:30 Georgia Hardstark? How's this?
1:38:31 Karen Kilgariff? Cory, you bought a shirt and you put it on tonight.
1:38:35 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:38:35 Karen Kilgariff? That's badass. That's badass.
1:38:37 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you.
1:38:38 Karen Kilgariff? Thank you.
1:38:38 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you. Where are you from? Seattle. Great.
1:38:41 Karen Kilgariff? Nice.
1:38:44 Georgia Hardstark? And my story is too. Okay, great. Yeah. Go for it. When my daughter was in sixth grade, she tried out for the school play, which was awesome. It's the only play she ever... And I was a theater kid, so I was very happy that she...
1:39:01 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, so she got the part of Stone Number Three.
1:39:06 Karen Kilgariff? Oh. Well, which play was it? Would I be familiar with this play?
1:39:11 Georgia Hardstark? No.
1:39:11 Karen Kilgariff? Okay.
1:39:11 Georgia Hardstark? Small Christian school.
1:39:13 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, well, I really love Christian plays, so you might...
1:39:17 Georgia Hardstark? I don't remember.
1:39:18 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, okay, fine, fine.
1:39:20 Georgia Hardstark? But there were only four speaking roles, and they were for the coveted, you know, eighth graders.
1:39:29 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:39:30 Georgia Hardstark? And the eighth graders that had the roles were awesome. One especially, a girl named Natalie. She did an excellent job. She was captivating. She also was an excellent singer in the choir at the school. She was a super smart kid. In fact, she was so smart that she was two grades ahead. So she was, you know, my daughter's age, probably. Fast forward a couple of years, she was in high school. She had a little brother that was two years behind her. Her parents were going through a very ugly divorce.
1:40:15 Georgia Hardstark? I think they shared custody. But when she was 14, things went sideways, and her mom lost custody. Dad had them full-time. Mom had only supervised visitation.
1:40:34 Georgia Hardstark? So it had been about nine months since their mom had been in the home that they shared with their father. And they had a set of rules in place, but it was December, and mom had reached out to the little brother and said, "It's the holidays. I have a gift for you. I have it wrapped. I want to deliver it to you." And she manipulated him, and he succumbed. And so when Natalie and her dad were out, the brother was home, allowed mom to deliver the gift.
1:41:14 Georgia Hardstark? At some point, it was discovered later that the gift was really a ruse. It was old clothing that she had that he had outgrown.
1:41:23 Georgia Hardstark? Her real intention was to arrive, zip tie the boy, stuff his mouth with socks, and hide him and wait. It's, it's, yeah.
1:41:43 Georgia Hardstark? So Dad and Natalie get home. Of course, they're shocked. She says to Dad, "I'm here to ruin your life because you've ruined mine."
1:41:57 Georgia Hardstark? She holds him at gunpoint as he
1:42:04 Georgia Hardstark? has to zip tie himself. And Natalie is able to rush up to her room. She calls 911. She's able to share what's happening and the contact information and all of that. And at some point, she can hear her mom coming, and she tucks the phone in her pocket. And the rest is recorded by the operator. And that is when the operator heard her mom say,
1:42:37 Georgia Hardstark? "You did what? You called fucking 911? If they come here, I'm gonna put a hole in your head."
1:42:47 Georgia Hardstark? And then there's the sound of wrestling. There's a sound of a zip tie. There's a sound of a gunshot.
1:42:58 Georgia Hardstark? Before the police arrive,
1:43:02 Georgia Hardstark? Dad is able to use his body to slam Mom against the wall and tell the brother to run outside and wait for police.
1:43:18 Georgia Hardstark? And Natalie did not survive. But... She did save her brother's life and her dad's life.
1:43:29 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
1:43:34 Georgia Hardstark? And it took six years for mom to be sentenced.
1:43:41 Georgia Hardstark? She spent three of those years trying to claim insanity. But she had the wherewithal to plan to buy a gun, buy zip ties and come prepared. And so that didn't work. And COVID was in there. She fired two attorneys in that time. So finally, this year, she took a plea. She's serving 32 years.
1:44:19 Georgia Hardstark? Which means that she cannot be let out more than 10% of her sentence. So she'll be 81 years old.
1:44:29 Georgia Hardstark? For Natalie. Natalie, amazing.
1:44:31 Karen Kilgariff? Wonderful job.
1:44:35 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you, Cory.
1:44:36 Karen Kilgariff? Cory, everybody. That's Cory's hometown. Thank you so much. Great job.
1:44:41 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you. Wow.
1:44:46 Georgia Hardstark? Seattle.
1:44:47 Karen Kilgariff? That's right.
1:44:47 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
1:44:48 Karen Kilgariff? That's a real, that's... We ask people to come up here and tell hometowns because true crime is everywhere. Everyone has experienced or has some sort of, some sort of degree of connection to trauma and horror and things. People that have been taken away, people that, that really matter, that get forgotten because whatever, the system fails them. And it really is a nice thing where people hold that in their hearts. They remember a kid that was in their, you know, their son's play. Like, it's such a lovely thing to be able to say, hey, this happened to a real person and now she's gone. And people actually really care about that. That's the point of all of this, really.
1:45:32 Karen Kilgariff? It's we care about each other and everybody in this room cares about what happens to their fellow man. And it's a really lovely thing.
1:45:43 Georgia Hardstark? Oh my God. Thank you guys so much, Seattle. We love coming here. You guys have been so supportive of us from the very beginning and we love this community and the community you guys have built. So thank you for just supporting this.
1:45:55 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, we really, it's great to come up here.
1:45:59 Karen Kilgariff? We always have the best time.
1:46:01 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:46:02 Karen Kilgariff? Both of these shows, both nights have been incredible. We got to meet some of you last night. It's so fun and we just thank you from the bottom of our hearts for giving us the kind of life where we get to wear fancy dresses and joke around with each other and hang out with you guys. It's a joy. We have missed you these past six years. And stay sexy.
1:46:25 Karen Kilgariff? Thank you, Seattle.
1:46:27 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you.
1:46:30 Karen Kilgariff? Elvis, do you want a cookie?
1:46:39 Georgia Hardstark? This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.
1:46:45 Karen Kilgariff? Our editor is Aristotle Lassaveto.
1:46:47 Georgia Hardstark? This episode was mixed by Leona Scolacci.
1:46:49 Karen Kilgariff? Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ally Elkin.
1:46:52 Georgia Hardstark? Email your hometowns to [email protected] .
1:46:55 Karen Kilgariff? And follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder.
1:46:57 Georgia Hardstark? Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:47:02 Karen Kilgariff? And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix.
1:47:05 Georgia Hardstark? And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the remind me buttons. That's the best way you can support our show.
1:47:10 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
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1:48:25 Karen Kilgariff? If you need a reset after your day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine.
1:48:30 Georgia Hardstark? Generously spritz each foot before bed and you'll be all set. I've actually started doing this and I'm obsessed with magnesium. It does everything.
1:48:37 Karen Kilgariff? Something like this is just like, it's simple, it's easy and it actually works.
1:48:41 Georgia Hardstark? Totally. For wellness, you can feel find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle.
1:48:46 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
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1:49:18 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
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