497 - Cigarettes and Mothballs

This week, Georgia covers the heroic passengers of United Flight 93 on September 11th. For our sources, please visit https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode. Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Watch full episodes of My Favorite Murder on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@my_favorite_murder Send your hometown stories to [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Join the Fan Cult to access ad-free episodes of My Favorite Murder. Members also receive merch store discounts, exclusive audio and video content and more! Visit www.fancult.supercast.com http://www.fancult.supercast.com/ to join. Shop for My Favorite Murder and other Exactly Right merchandise here: www.exactlyrightstore.com http://www.exactlyrightstore.com/. Rate, review and follow My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Karen Kilgariff?

  This is exactly right.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way. When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, the rubber hits the road. And what the feds uncover is a complex scheme of staged wrecks, financial fraud, and a pair of conspiring lovers behind it. This is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences. Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

• 0:42Georgia Hardstark?

  The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. Sonny's life is pretty great until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his, with one exception: his mom.

• 0:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Starring five-time Emmy nominee Carney Britton and Sam Nivola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.

• 1:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Watch the Hulu original series, Phony.

• 1:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 1:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  Do you ever feel like your computer is tracking you? Well, it's not. It's your browser following you. But not if you come back to Firefox. Firefox blocks the trackers automatically, doesn't follow you from site to site, and supports the ad blockers other browsers dropped. Plus, you can switch AI on or off when its intelligence is acting too artificial. And switching? Totally painless. Your bookmarks, passwords, and browsing history come right with you. Come back to Firefox. Visit firefox.com.

• 1:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Hello.

• 1:58Karen Kilgariff?

  And welcome.

• 1:59Georgia Hardstark?

  To my favorite murder.

• 2:00Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Georgia Hardstark.

• 2:01Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Karen Kilgariff.

• 2:03Karen Kilgariff?

  And we're just here to tell you a couple things before we go. Just like four.

• 2:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Four things, and then we're gonna go back on tour.

• 2:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, we'll just go back to the hotel rooms.

• 2:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Constantly for the rest of our lives.

• 2:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Forever.

• 2:16Georgia Hardstark?

  And eat chicken strips and Caesar salads.

• 2:20Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, Caesar salad, you're being good.

• 2:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I don't eat it. I just order it.

• 2:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I see.

• 2:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Ben eats it.

• 2:27Karen Kilgariff?

  He gets that roughage?

• 2:28Georgia Hardstark?

  He does. He's so good at it. And I'm just like a child fucking, I just ate a fucking Uncrustable. Like, I don't, I eat like a toddler.

• 2:35Karen Kilgariff?

  I had my first Uncrustable in the Denver dressing room.

• 2:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Congratulations.

• 2:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Georgia came up and was holding Uncrustables, like, would you like some of these?

• 2:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Cause I asked for them in the dressing room, cause like the perfect snack.

• 2:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 2:48Georgia Hardstark?

  And they gave me like 12 of them. So I was like, I'm gonna share the wealth. Everyone gets an Uncrustable.

• 2:53Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so funny. They asked what I wanted in my dressing room. And I'm like, I don't know. And I said mozzarella sticks, but I meant string cheese. And

• 3:03Georgia Hardstark?

  It's the same thing.

• 3:04Karen Kilgariff?

  It was like, everyone kind of pauses, like, okay, I guess we'll get you hot mozzarella sticks.

• 3:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Impossibly, yeah.

• 3:10Georgia Hardstark?

  String cheese is a good idea.

• 3:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 3:12Georgia Hardstark?

  It's such a weird part of it that you're like, I don't, what do people fucking want in green rooms? I've never done.

• 3:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Coke.

• 3:17Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't, cocaine.

• 3:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Always coke.

• 3:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Cocaine.

• 3:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Cocaine and edamame. I asked for edamame as well.

• 3:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 3:23Karen Kilgariff?

  I was trying to do protein things, but again, it's absolutely performative.

• 3:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Right.

• 3:29Karen Kilgariff?

  For who?

• 3:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly.

• 3:30Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm not sure.

• 3:31Georgia Hardstark?

  But, well, we're back, except we're not, because when this comes out, we're in Austin.

• 3:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, that's right.

• 3:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Night two in Austin.

• 3:38Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right, which I'm very excited about.

• 3:39Georgia Hardstark?

  I think I'm gonna wear cowboy boots to the show.

• 3:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Local jokes get local work.

• 3:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 3:45Karen Kilgariff?

  In the best way.

• 3:46Georgia Hardstark?

  In the best way.

• 3:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Give them what they want, is what I meant, for that one.

• 3:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you, everyone who came to Denver. That was like such a fucking amazing time.

• 3:54Karen Kilgariff?

  It was, I mean, I would have to say, to go back on stage after six years, it was perfection.

• 4:01Georgia Hardstark?

  It was great. We forgot how to do it.

• 4:03Karen Kilgariff?

  They didn't care.

• 4:04Georgia Hardstark?

  They were so supportive.

• 4:05Karen Kilgariff?

  They were really right there with us as we didn't know our lines in our own show.

• 4:09Georgia Hardstark?

  It was so much fun. I hope you guys are coming to the live shows coming up.

• 4:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 4:13Georgia Hardstark?

  I think they're gonna be fucking fun.

• 4:15Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, first of all, I would just say, Denver was the loudest audience I've ever heard.

• 4:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Both nights.

• 4:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:22Karen Kilgariff?

  But that first night was nuts.

• 4:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Like nuts.

• 4:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:25Karen Kilgariff?

  And there was Katie dressed as a hot dog front and center.

• 4:28Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 4:29Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, there's just a lot of, a lot of great stuff. Mary drove from South Dakota.

• 4:34Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 4:34Karen Kilgariff?

  There was just like

• 4:35Georgia Hardstark?

  A lot of positivity.

• 4:36Karen Kilgariff?

  People repping from all over this great land.

• 4:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:40Karen Kilgariff?

  We were in our own little fantasy worlds in that theater.

• 4:43Georgia Hardstark?

  We were.

• 4:44Karen Kilgariff?

  It was really great.

• 4:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Us and Uncrustables.

• 4:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 4:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Wait, were you giving me a signal to put my hair down?

• 4:50Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I was sectioning my own hair. When we were in Denver, I went to a vintage store and I bought this shirt that I

• 4:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Bombshell?

• 4:57Georgia Hardstark?

  This blouse. What was it called?

• 4:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Goldmine.

• 5:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Goldmine. Thank you. Oh, my God. And I steamed it and it smells vintage now.

• 5:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 5:05Georgia Hardstark?

  You know how that happens?

• 5:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Cigs.

• 5:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Cigarettes and mothballs.

• 5:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I have a thing that's very, has nothing to do with anything.

• 5:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 5:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Except for that just, it was very touching to me. So there was the, like, the technical Emmys, but there is an actor who I've always been a huge fan of, and I actually kind of became, you know, fake Twitter friends with for a little while. His name's Sean Hattassey, and he has been working since I think he was in his early twenties. He's been in a million things. He used to be on a show called Southland, but now he's on the pit and he won for best supporting actor.

• 5:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 5:43Karen Kilgariff?

  So I have always loved him, of course. And somewhere in the Twitter world, he did something like he posted a picture. He was like, what is this outside of? And it was like a bunch of bikes that had goofy shit all over them. And people were just guessing. And I guessed Hot Yoga Studio in Santa Monica or something like that. And he wrote back, I expected better from you, Karen.

• 6:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 6:05Karen Kilgariff?

  And then I was like, wait, what the fuck? Then I would post a joke and he would be there making jokes back. And so it was almost like we were already friends. Like, I went to high school with Sean Hattassey.

• 6:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 6:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Where I was just like, my friend Molly, who is, I was also a Twitter friend of hers. She was like, what the fuck's going on? I'm like, I truly don't know, but just everybody act calm and pretend like, whatever. He's just a funny guy, but he's also just like one of those working actor people that like, everybody loves and is so good in everything he does. And when I posted a thing when my mom died, he DM'd me and sent me the loveliest message of like, whatever. So I just wanted to say, because now Twitter's gone.

• 6:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 6:45Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm over on TikTok, on my TikTok island.

• 6:47Georgia Hardstark?

  On your own.

• 6:48Karen Kilgariff?

  With no connections to anything. And I'm just fucking basically a weird lurker. I don't get to write my jokes or do my fun stuff.

• 6:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, they really ruined that for.

• 6:56Karen Kilgariff?

  They ruined everything.

• 6:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Those 140 characters.

• 6:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Congratulations to Sean Hattassey.

• 7:00Georgia Hardstark?

  That's amazing. I have an update or a thing that is, that has nothing to do with this, except it's true crime.

• 7:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, maybe we do more stuff like that on our true crime podcast.

• 7:10Georgia Hardstark?

  I guess. So in July of 2024, I did an episode 436 called You, Me, and American Geography.

• 7:20Georgia Hardstark?

  I covered Buford Pusser, who was the walking tall guy.

• 7:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 7:25Georgia Hardstark?

  And about how they got ambushed. His wife was killed by the people who were like going after him and how he became this hero. Well, looks like he killed his wife.

• 7:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 7:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep. Spoiler alert. They think he did it. Yeah.

• 7:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, all the lore around that man is false?

• 7:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep. And they think he killed her. They like looked at the evidence again. The wife's name was Pauline. It was said that she was shot in the car while riding with him, but new evidence shows she may have been shot outside the car. And Buford had been shot in the face, which was like a huge, and he survived, you know? But it's like, oh, that looks like a self-inflicted gun wound now.

• 8:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, do we know for a fact, or is this just is like, we think and we're getting close to the answer?

• 8:09Georgia Hardstark?

  I think they're pretty set on it. He's dead, you know, long dead. So it's like, nothing could be done. But there's like, the new evidence is pretty damning.

• 8:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 8:17Georgia Hardstark?

  I guess.

• 8:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, it's the kind of thing where, and will the new evidence even matter? Because oftentimes, when like lore happens like that, it's just set and people kind of never change their mind.

• 8:27Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, it's almost like, yeah, like cold cases that are just so fascinating. It's like, oh, fuck, man. You find out new shit all the time.

• 8:34Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a real twist.

• 8:36Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. I know. I know. Should we do some highlights?

• 8:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's do it.

• 8:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. We have a podcast network. It's called Exactly Right Media. Here are some highlights.

• 8:44Karen Kilgariff?

  We've got a new Buried Bones episode this week called Blood on the Cobblestones, Part One. Kate and Paul head to Boston, 1962, where a series of women are found strangled, and the story is just beginning.

• 8:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, wow. Speaking of buried bones, Kate and Paul are going on vacation, and they're taking you with them. That's right. Buried Bones is setting sail this October as part of Virgin Voyages' first-ever true crime cruise.

• 9:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Can you imagine?

• 9:09Georgia Hardstark?

  I cannot imagine.

• 9:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you think that ID Channel will just zap out because everyone will be on it at 11:30? Like buffet, dance party, whatever?

• 9:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 9:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Then you need those forensic files.

• 9:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God, that sounds amazing. They're stopping in the Dominican Republic, in Bimini in Bahamas, and there'll be a live taping of Buried Bones and a meet and greet with Kate. Kate and Paul, so make sure you check that out if that's your thing at virginvoyages.com/truecrime.

• 9:36Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, that's gonna be really fun.

• 9:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 9:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, amazing places to go.

• 9:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 9:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, then, over on I Said No Gifts, Bridger is joined by some hilarious guests, Lauren Lapkus, Taryn Killam, and Vinnie Thomas, my very favorite. If you haven't followed Vinnie Thomas on either Instagram or TikTok, he is one of the funniest people out there. He was just on I Said No Gifts individually.

• 9:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Nice.

• 9:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Anyway, they're live in Los Angeles, and the topics include deodorant application, an OJ Simpson pog, and the Capital One Cafe.

• 10:06Georgia Hardstark?

  And then over on our newest podcast, Trust Me, Lola and Megan are joined by journalist Jane Borden. Oh, my God, good friend of the podcast.

• 10:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Friend of the pod.

• 10:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Author of the book Cults Like Us, that I've mentioned here before, it's so freaking good. She talks about how cult thinking is baked into American life, from doomsday myths to self-help empires, and why we're all more susceptible than we think. Fascinating stuff.

• 10:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it's very cool. And also, finally, over on That's Messed Up, Karen and Lisa covered the SVU episode Dare, which is the tragic story of actress Isabella Grasso, and discussed the gruesome case of Dr. Michael Mastro Marino. Oh, I was flipping around on Deep Cable last night. Want to see what I saw?

• 10:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 10:46Karen Kilgariff?

  This commercial right here.

• 10:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God, it's Nicole.

• 10:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 10:50Speaker 04

  Hi, it's Nicole from the merch department. I've just returned from a very dangerous excavation. We found artifacts, ancient, powerful, possibly cursed. It's the OG Stay Sexy tee, dug up from the year 2017, designed by Kat Solan, preserved by time, now reissued in a unisex fit. Some say these belong in a museum. We say they belong on your body. Available now at ExactlyRightStore.com. Get yours before they go extinct.

• 11:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Nicole, what a treasure.

• 11:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Another great ad from Nicole.

• 11:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Such a treasure.

• 11:28Karen Kilgariff?

  And she's actually at all our live shows. If you're a huge Nicole head,

• 11:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 11:32Karen Kilgariff?

  then you gotta come to the live shows because she sells the merch.

• 11:34Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. She's at our merch booth, fucking taking over.

• 11:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Turning something you love into a career is exciting. Then come the invoices. Lucky for you, Squarespace can handle the business stuff so you can focus on your business. From consultations to events and experiences, you can showcase your skills with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business. With Squarespace's collection of cutting-edge design tools, anyone can build a beautiful, professional, online presence that perfectly fits their brand or business. Get paid on time with professional invoices and online payments. Plus, streamline your workflow with built-in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools. Head to Squarespace.com/murder for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch,

• 12:21Karen Kilgariff?

  use offer code MURDER to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Goodbye.

• 12:27Georgia Hardstark?

  The Hulu original series, Phony, is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+.

• 12:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Sonny's life is pretty great, until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his, with one exception: his mom.

• 12:39Georgia Hardstark?

  To everyone else, she's the same Ellen they've known their whole lives. But for Sonny, he knows something is off.

• 12:45Karen Kilgariff?

  As his relationship with his mother begins to crack in unsettling ways, he's forced to question what happens when the perfect mom becomes a perfect stranger.

• 12:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Is this all in his head or is there really an imposter in his house?

• 12:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nivola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.

• 13:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Watch the Hulu original series, Phony.

• 13:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. Goodbye. Sometimes being a little salty is completely justified.

• 13:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Pair your salty side with something sweet with the new Salted Caramel flavor from Kachava.

• 13:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Kachava is a whole-body shake with plant-based protein, fiber, greens, and other nutrients to help fill nutritional gaps.

• 13:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Just two scoops provide complete nutrition your body craves with protein, fiber, greens. Greens and so much more.

• 13:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Their new salty caramel flavor combines sweet caramel with a little salt. So you get that salty, sweet balance along with the nutrition Kachava is known for.

• 13:41Georgia Hardstark?

  When the day demands your salty side, fuel it with plant-based protein that actually tastes delicious.

• 13:46Karen Kilgariff?

  I really do love Kachava and I really do think it does taste delicious for getting you through the morning, filling in the gap if you just need some protein and you need some vitamins. It's such a nice little treat.

• 13:57Georgia Hardstark?

  It's such an easy way to get everything you need and it tastes good too, which is just huge bonus.

• 14:02Karen Kilgariff?

  So embrace your salty side.

• 14:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Go to kachava.com and use code MFM for 15% off your first order.

• 14:07Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Kachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A dot com, code MFM.

• 14:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 14:13Karen Kilgariff?

  We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.

• 14:17Georgia Hardstark?

  You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork and trying to figure out who to call.

• 14:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows patients spend the equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month coordinating their own care.

• 14:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.

• 14:36Karen Kilgariff?

  That's why there's Solace Health.

• 14:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Solace provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience and can help you get answers fast.

• 14:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle the logistics while you focus on your health.

• 14:50Georgia Hardstark?

  They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options and understanding doctor recommendations.

• 14:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.

• 15:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocacy improves outcomes and Solace advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.

• 15:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Eligibility varies by insurance plan.

• 15:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice or services, must be 18 years or older.

• 15:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to solacehealth.com/murder to see if you qualify.

• 15:16Georgia Hardstark?

  It takes about two minutes and it's covered by insurance.

• 15:19Karen Kilgariff?

  That's S-O-L-A-C-E health dot com slash murder.

• 15:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 15:26Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, well, I'm solo today.

• 15:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, it's your day.

• 15:29Georgia Hardstark?

  It's my day. It's also 9/11 when this comes out.

• 15:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Never forget.

• 15:34Georgia Hardstark?

  In the spirit of not forgetting, I'm going to tell you a story that happened exactly 24 years ago on September 11th, 2001. As you know, Karen, four hijacked airplanes were used to conduct the deadliest attack on American soil. And what boggles my mind is that there are people who listen to this podcast who weren't even born yet.

• 15:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 15:53Georgia Hardstark?

  And who are adults.

• 15:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 15:55Georgia Hardstark?

  It's fucking crazy.

• 15:56Karen Kilgariff?

  I know.

• 15:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, the trauma that we collectively still have from it, from that day, and people hadn't been born yet, I can't even imagine.

• 16:03Karen Kilgariff?

  The weirdest thing, and I know, I feel like we've talked about this, but I remember, like, three days later, we all, me and my friends, went to the beach. And we were in the water, you know, out in Santa Monica, and a plane came to land. And we all just froze in the water. Everybody at the beach was like, what's gonna happen right now? And it's like, the plane just landed normal.

• 16:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Constantly.

• 16:23Karen Kilgariff?

  It was a complete paradigm shift, obviously.

• 16:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally, totally. It changed the way you saw the world completely. A week after the attacks, the famous journalist Hunter S. Thompson, who then had a column for ESPN's sports writing site, Page 2, wrote, quote, "The 22 babies born in New York City while the World Trade Center burned will never know what they missed. The last half of the 20th century will seem like a wild party for rich kids compared to what's coming now. The party's over, folks," end quote. And he was correct.

• 16:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Dang, Hunter S. Thompson knew it.

• 16:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Can you imagine, like, going into labor when that's happening? You used to go to the hospital?

• 17:03Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean...

• 17:04Georgia Hardstark?

  In New York?

• 17:05Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's basically like, now we're all in a disaster movie.

• 17:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 17:08Karen Kilgariff?

  That we, that no one has even ever imagined.

• 17:11Georgia Hardstark?

  No, it's like the series finale of some fucking hospital movie that, like, is awful.

• 17:15Karen Kilgariff?

  So crazy. I had friends that had to run, they lived down near Wall Street, and they had to run out of their apartment with no shoes on.

• 17:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 17:21Karen Kilgariff?

  And like, just to get away from the building.

• 17:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus Christ.

• 17:24Karen Kilgariff?

  So nuts.

• 17:25Georgia Hardstark?

  The shockwaves from that day have reshaped our country and our world, and we're still living with the consequences. But today's story is about some of the people who, in the moment, decided to sacrifice themselves to ensure that as little harm as possible would come to their fellow Americans. This is the story of the passengers and crew of United 93, the only hijacked plane that did not hit its intended target.

• 17:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Holy shit.

• 17:50Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 17:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Great idea.

• 17:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Right?

• 17:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 17:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you to Ally and Molly for suggesting this. I've been waiting to do this.

• 17:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Amazing.

• 17:56Georgia Hardstark?

  And today of all fucking days.

• 17:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, really.

• 17:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Along the way, we'll talk about some of the other people on board the other planes who sounded the alarm and relay as much information as possible over the phone. It's because of these phone calls that we have any information about what happened on those planes. I also want to talk about how like cell phones were like in their infancy.

• 18:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 18:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Everyone maybe had a cellphone. There was no texting though. There was no sending photos. If you were on an airplane, you couldn't make a call most of the time.

• 18:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, probably not. There was texting, but it was that you had to do, you had depress the little number a certain amount of times for the certain letter.

• 18:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I was so good at that.

• 18:31Karen Kilgariff?

  It was so exhausting.

• 18:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God, it was, it was exhausting.

• 18:34Karen Kilgariff?

  It was ridiculous.

• 18:35Georgia Hardstark?

  People would not understand today.

• 18:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, it's so expensive.

• 18:38Georgia Hardstark?

  So expensive, yeah. I'm sure, yeah, calling from an airplane. Can you like, yeah. So the main sources I used for the story were an article in The New Yorker by Paige Williams, a segment from 60 Minutes, and the 9/11 Commission Report. And the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. So we're going to start in Oak Brook, Illinois, a Chicago suburb. And we're at the customer service call center for Verizon's air phone service. Remember, they had phones on the back of the seats.

• 19:06Karen Kilgariff?

  With the wire that came out.

• 19:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes. You'd press this button and like a phone would pop out of the back of the seat in front of you on an airplane.

• 19:13Karen Kilgariff?

  And it was $10 a minute, wasn't it?

• 19:15Georgia Hardstark?

  It was like so expensive.

• 19:16Karen Kilgariff?

  It was so expensive.

• 19:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Nobody used them. Like they were for show, it felt like. Well, a woman named Lisa Jefferson is a supervisor at this call center. She spent the morning working in her office and sometime after 8:00 AM Central Time, a coworker asked if she's heard that two planes have crashed into the World Trade Center buildings in New York. Lisa hadn't heard yet and at about 8:45 AM, she steps out of her office to find out more. And she's only taken a few steps when one of the call center reps she supervises flags her down. She says she's on the phone with a man who is on another plane that has been hijacked. Lisa has the representative get some more information for her to relay to her supervisors. And by the time Lisa has done this and returns, she can tell that the representative is having trouble handling the information she's hearing. Obviously, she's panicking.

• 20:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 20:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Lisa has to lift her physically out of the chair and sit her down next to her so she can get on the call because this woman is just

• 20:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Frozen in fear.

• 20:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. She puts on the headset and starts talking to, quote, "a soft spoken calm man," as she puts it. He introduces himself as Todd. So Todd Beamer is 32 years old and he's from Cranbury, New Jersey. He has two little boys, David, who's three, and Drew, who was one, and one more baby on the way. His wife, coincidentally, is also named Lisa. Todd works as a software salesman for the software company Oracle. He had flown out of Newark that morning to attend a meeting in San Francisco, and he was just gonna take the meeting and come right back home to be with his family. He was supposed to have gone the day before, which is like fucking always, right?

• 20:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 20:53Georgia Hardstark?

  But he and Lisa had just gotten back from a trip to Italy, and he wanted to spend that night with his kids. So he took the flight the next day.

• 21:01Karen Kilgariff?

  So he rushed home.

• 21:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So Todd is a baseball fanatic. He can't wait to start his kids in the sport. He's already assembled a full catcher's uniform for his three-year-old, right? Like, I could see Vince doing that. Everything except the mitt, and that's because Lisa, the wife, had put her foot down about this. She's like, he's three years old. He doesn't need the whole thing yet. Like, let's wait on the mitt. You know, they're expensive.

• 21:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 21:27Georgia Hardstark?

  It's sometimes reported that Todd was trying to call his wife initially, but the call wouldn't connect and that he called the air phone customer service desk and said, but according to Lisa Beamer, the wife, and Lisa Jefferson, Todd didn't try to call his wife at all. He knew she was home with her two very young children, and she was pregnant, and Todd did not want to upset his family and freak her out. So, because it was 2001, which is ancient, there's no transcript of Lisa Jefferson's call with Todd. It was not recorded. Lisa took some notes on a post-it, and those were What was handed over to the FBI. So everything we know about the conversations from Lisa's memory, there was a transcript circulating online, but it was fake.

• 22:07Georgia Hardstark?

  So of the four planes that were ultimately hijacked that morning, Todd's flight from Newark, United 93, had been the last to take off. Between the four planes, there were 19 hijackers total and four of them are on flight 93. Each of the other flights have five hijackers onboard. And it's guessed that the final hijacker was detained upon attempting to enter the United States. So there's only four on his flight. All 19 hijackers are members of the Al Qaeda terrorist network and most, but not all of them are from Saudi Arabia, where Al Qaeda has the strongest presence. The hijackers are between the ages of 20 and 33, with the majority of them being in their early twenties. I know the whole thing.

• 22:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Just like watching radicalization.

• 22:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 22:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's what we're doing in this country now, but it just like that thing of there is no end there, you know, it's the one end, actually, sorry, it's a zero sum game, like it's just so sad. And then the idea that something has gotten into their head to the degree where they're like, yep, I'm going to die for this belief.

• 23:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 23:08Karen Kilgariff?

  And I'm going to kill a bunch of other people for this belief.

• 23:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 23:12Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, it's a horrible thing.

• 23:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So some of the hijackers had been in America for years and have attended American flight schools. Other hijackers that were there just to subdue the passengers and crew mostly arrive in the US later. And they are kept separate from the pilots until the day of the attack. I mean, you can read about this and watch the details about this everywhere, obviously, so I'm not going to get super in the weeds. But all four of the flight 93 hijackers are seated in first class in the front of the plane.

• 23:43Georgia Hardstark?

  So the TSA will be created in response to nine 11, which is so wild.

• 23:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, you used to be able to go up to the gate.

• 23:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, well, yeah, you could walk your person up to the gate.

• 23:52Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 23:52Georgia Hardstark?

  There was no centralized authority performing security screenings at every airport. The airlines instead contract out their security to individual companies.

• 24:01Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, so it's just, there's no rules.

• 24:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 24:03Georgia Hardstark?

  There's no rules. Surveillance footage from these checkpoints show that several of the hijackers set off the metal detectors and then they get checked with a wand that morning. In the footage, one of them appears to have something clipped to his back pocket, but he's allowed through the checkpoint without it being examined. And it will turn out that most of the hijackers were able to get knives or box cutters onboard, which is why you have to take your shoes off now. I mean, that's not.

• 24:27Karen Kilgariff?

  You absolutely could have a box cutter in those doctor's shelves. I mean, it doesn't make sense anymore.

• 24:33Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. It sucks that we like, we do things in response to tragedy, not to like circumvent it.

• 24:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, not, there's no one sitting down and preventatively.

• 24:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 24:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Maybe they are, but I just watched a woman do this TikTok where she's like, so you're telling me that my pet has to stay in quarantine till his vaccines come all the way through, but there's not going to be any vaccines for children?

• 24:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 24:58Karen Kilgariff?

  And it just like, oh my God, like the mentality of things where you're just like, how are we, there's no, not overriding logic.

• 25:06Georgia Hardstark?

  No, it's fucking mayhem now.

• 25:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 25:08Georgia Hardstark?

  It's total mayhem.

• 25:11Georgia Hardstark?

  The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+

• 25:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Sonny's life is pretty great until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his with one exception, his mom.

• 25:23Georgia Hardstark?

  To everyone else, she's the same Ellen they've known their whole lives, but for Sonny, he knows something is off.

• 25:29Karen Kilgariff?

  As his relationship with his mother begins to crack in unsettling ways, he's forced to question what happens when the perfect mom becomes a perfect stranger.

• 25:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Is this all in his head or is there really an imposter in his house?

• 25:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nivola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.

• 25:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Watch the Hulu original series Phony.

• 25:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 25:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 25:55Karen Kilgariff?

  We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.

• 26:00Georgia Hardstark?

  You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next, and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork and trying to figure out who to call.

• 26:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows patients spend the Equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month, coordinating their own care.

• 26:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.

• 26:19Karen Kilgariff?

  That's why there's Solace Health.

• 26:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Solace provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience and can help you get answers fast.

• 26:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle the logistics while you focus on your health.

• 26:33Georgia Hardstark?

  They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options, and understanding doctor recommendations.

• 26:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.

• 26:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocacy improves outcomes, and Solace advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.

• 26:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Eligibility varies by insurance plan.

• 26:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice, or services must be 18 years or older.

• 26:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to solacehealth.com/murder to see if you qualify.

• 26:59Georgia Hardstark?

  It takes about two minutes, and it's covered by insurance.

• 27:02Karen Kilgariff?

  That's S-O-L-A-C-E health.com/murder.

• 27:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 27:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Vacation planning should feel like a breeze, not a deep dive into countless travel sites searching for the best deal.

• 27:12Georgia Hardstark?

  With CheapCaribbean's Budget Beach Finder, you can search every destination and every date all in one search.

• 27:18Karen Kilgariff?

  You'll save time and money with the Budget Beach Finder.

• 27:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Say goodbye to endless scrolling and tab hopping and hello to Budget Beach Bliss at your fingertips.

• 27:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to cheapcaribbean.com to try out the Budget Beach Finder and see just how stress-free vacation planning should be.

• 27:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 27:34Karen Kilgariff?

  You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium.

• 27:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.

• 27:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals, powered by pure Epsom salt and natural Dead Sea salt, it's designed to help you relax and get in the right state of mind for a good night's rest.

• 27:49Georgia Hardstark?

  If you need a reset after a crazy day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine. It's an effortless way to get a boost of topical magnesium that can help you relax your body and mind before bedtime.

• 28:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Dr. Teal's magnesium spray comes in a lightweight, fast-drying formula.

• 28:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Just shake it up and generously spritz onto the soles of your feet and massage until absorbed.

• 28:08Karen Kilgariff?

  I was kind of blown away the first time I used this spray because I do have problems sleeping. And when there's something this simple, you just spray it on your feet, and suddenly you're asleep, and the next morning you're like, wait, what happened? Did my problem just get solved? Like, it actually is that easy.

• 28:23Georgia Hardstark?

  And your stinky feet now smell like lavender. Like, what more do you want?

• 28:26Karen Kilgariff?

  How dare you call my feet stinky?

• 28:29Georgia Hardstark?

  For wellness, you can feel find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle.

• 28:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 28:37Georgia Hardstark?

  So United 93 boards around 8:00 AM Eastern Time. There are 33 passengers who range in age from 20 to 79. They're from all over the country, Minnesota, California, Florida, some even from overseas in Germany and Japan. It's believed that the first hijacking on the first plane, American Airlines 11, begins around 8:14 in the morning, shortly after that flight took off out of Boston's Logan Airport. This is when communications between air traffic control and the pilots started going unanswered. So that's how they know something had started. There were seven crew members aboard that day, and two heroic flight attendants on that flight are able to separately contact American Airlines to sound the alarm that something had happened.

• 29:22Georgia Hardstark?

  At 8:19 AM, Betty Ann Ong calls the American Airlines reservations desk from the jump seat in coach and informs them that she believes the flight has been hijacked. So this is the first they hear about it. She says that two first-class flight attendants have been stabbed and that she believes that the hijackers have taken over the cockpit. She says people are having trouble breathing and that she thinks the hijackers sprayed mace up in first class.

• 29:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh my God. I never heard any of that.

• 29:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, me neither. At 8:29, Madeline Amy Sweeney, another flight attendant on American Airlines 11, who goes by Amy, also contacts American Airlines, reaching their flight services desk in Boston, and confirms that two flight attendants had been stabbed and that an additional passenger in first class was also killed. It's believed that this was a man named Daniel Lewin, and that he had attempted to stop the two hijackers seated in front of him, not realizing that additional hijackers were seated behind him. So he just jumped into action.

• 30:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 30:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. American Airlines personnel reached the air traffic control tower in Boston, which is already aware that there's a situation on Flight 11 because of the dropout in communication, but also because one of the American Airlines 11 hijackers mistakenly radios them at 8:24 AM. He says, quote, "We have some planes," end quote, and tells the passengers to sit down. It seems like he thought he was using the plane's PA system, but instead had broadcast that out to pilots and air traffic controllers. So you're just fucking flying your plane and you hear that. Terrifying.

• 30:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 30:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Both Betty and Amy remain on the line with American Airlines personnel calmly relaying information. At 8:46 a.m., Amy said she can see water and buildings and that the plane is flying way too low. Both phone calls end when American Airlines 11 hits the North Tower of New York's World Trade Center. And it's just horrific. She seems to know what's coming. Across the river in Newark, New Jersey, Todd's flight, United 93, has taken off four minutes earlier. So like, just if-

• 31:28Karen Kilgariff?

  If there was just some delay.

• 31:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 31:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 31:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Some delay. At 8:42 a.m., after a 25-minute delay on the tarmac. So if it had just been a little bit longer-

• 31:36Karen Kilgariff?

  A little longer.

• 31:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Between the hijacking of American Airlines 11 and United 93 taking off, the two other flights have also taken off. Those are United Airlines 175 from Boston to LA, which took off at 8:15, one minute after the American Airlines 11 hijacking began. So, too late by then. And American Airlines 77, which took off from Washington DC's Dulles Airport at 8:20. These two flights are hijacked within 10 minutes of United 93 taking off. So, air traffic control loses contact with American Airlines 77, the flight that left out of Dulles, at 9 a.m., about 15 minutes after the North Tower had been hit. By this point in time, the FAA is aware that multiple hijackings are taking place, but they have not put out the warning to other planes that are currently flying.

• 32:23Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, what would you do?

• 32:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, there is no protocol in place for this kind of thing.

• 32:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 32:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Because this has never happened before.

• 32:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Because multiple, yeah, it's like one hijacking at a time in the past.

• 32:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So they don't know when to like, emergency land. They don't tell them, "Stop taking off."

• 32:37Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, imagine, it's like, have you ever seen one of those maps with all the planes flying and how many are flying at the same time?

• 32:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 32:43Karen Kilgariff?

  And you're supposed to get on a mic and be like, "Guys, everybody land."

• 32:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And then imagine being one of the pilots, like, on the tarmac that day, who was told not to take off, and the people on the plane who are like, "What the fuck's going on?" You can't tell them. They'll freak out.

• 32:55Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just the worst.

• 32:57Georgia Hardstark?

  An impossible situation.

• 32:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 32:59Georgia Hardstark?

  At 8:59, a passenger aboard United Airlines 175 named Brian David Sweeney, oh my god, have you heard this? He leaves a message for his wife on his home answering machine. Have you heard it?

• 33:10Karen Kilgariff?

  I think so.

• 33:11Georgia Hardstark?

  It's fucking heartbreaking. He says in a calm voice, can I read it to you?

• 33:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Sure.

• 33:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Quote, "Jules, this is Brian. Listen, I'm on an airplane that's been hijacked. If things don't go well, and it's not looking good, I just want you to know, I absolutely love you." I know. "I want you to do good, go have good times, same to my parents and everybody, and I just totally love you, and I'll see you when you get there." I know. And it's like, his voice is like, kind of calm, but you can tell it's like resigned, it sounds resigned, dude.

• 33:42Karen Kilgariff?

  He's just like, "I just need you to know this."

• 33:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 33:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is a beautiful thing.

• 33:46Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. And saying, "I want you to do good and go have good times," knowing like, yeah, she's about to lose everything.

• 33:54Karen Kilgariff?

  What a loss of a man that would place that call.

• 33:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 33:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Goddamn.

• 33:58Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. So five minutes later, that flight strikes the south tower of the World Trade Center. The attacks in New York ultimately killed 2,753 people. So at this point, back on United 93, they've been in the air for about 20 minutes when that happens. And in the beginning, the first tower, we like, weren't sure what it was.

• 34:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 34:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Even the second tower, that's when you started to hear about like, the word terrorist attack, like, but it was slow. It was, I mean, the news, I was with my grandma, I was living at her house at the time, the news came in so slowly, and it came in as the newscasters were learning it as well.

• 34:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 34:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Fucking, no one knew anything. And then suddenly, there's another plane that had been hijacked, and another plane. And like, it was just very, it was a pandemonium.

• 34:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it's like, started surreal.

• 34:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 34:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Then got weirder. I've told you this already, but my sister called me, and I didn't get up.

• 34:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 34:55Karen Kilgariff?

  It was like, really early, and she kept calling, and when I finally picked up, she was like, she said, "They attacked the White House," which I thought she meant aliens. So it was just this like, what, what, what?

• 35:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 35:04Karen Kilgariff?

  And I turned on the TV, but then it was this like, When the first plane went, you were like, oh, that would a terrible accident.

• 35:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Yeah. My grandma came and woke me up, you know, my 100 year old grandma. She woke me up in a really nervous, weird way that was like after the first plane had hit. And she was like, I don't want to be alone anymore. And it came and woke me up. I was like a fucking 20 year old brat, you know, like, and we watched it together. I know. Okay. The pilots on flight 93 are named Jason Dahl and Leroy Homer. And they have already heard the mistaken transmission go out from one of the hijackers. And when at 9:23 a.m., a United Airlines dispatcher named Ed Bollinger lets them know about the other hijackings, sending written transmission, quote, beware any cockpit intrusion to aircraft

• 35:52Georgia Hardstark?

  hit World Trade Center, end quote. So they're fucking midair and they get that fucking message.

• 35:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean.

• 35:59Georgia Hardstark?

  And there's a movie called United 93 that seems to like be pretty close to the actual events.

• 36:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 36:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is terrifying and really hard to watch, but.

• 36:08Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. I remember when that movie came out and I was just like, who has the kind of weekend where they feel like they have the capacity to take that in?

• 36:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Well, I just watched the last scene that I'm going to tell you about and it was, it was brutal.

• 36:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 36:21Georgia Hardstark?

  A few minutes later, air traffic control sees that that plane loses 700 feet of altitude out of nowhere and the pilots issue a mayday call. This message is received by an air traffic control tower in Cleveland. The plane levels off and 30 seconds later, the Cleveland air traffic controllers hear the sound of a struggle and First Officer Leroy Homer saying, quote, get out of here, end quote. So obviously that's when they breached.

• 36:47Karen Kilgariff?

  They're in.

• 36:47Georgia Hardstark?

  The cockpit, it seems like. And also like, there wasn't the security with the cockpits that there is now. Like they block the aisle when the pilot has to come out to go to the bathroom.

• 36:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 36:56Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like this whole protocol. It was not like that then at all.

• 36:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Not at all.

• 37:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Like they'd leave the door open sometimes.

• 37:02Karen Kilgariff?

  The last flight I was on, I think on the way to Denver, the pilot came out a bunch.

• 37:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 37:08Karen Kilgariff?

  They kept being like, oh no, you can't be up here or whatever. And I was just like, I've never seen pilots walk around this much.

• 37:14Georgia Hardstark?

  It's very weird.

• 37:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 37:15Georgia Hardstark?

  I would have been like, oh no, what's happening?

• 37:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, just like Charlie Horse.

• 37:19Georgia Hardstark?

  It's okay. Meanwhile, at 9:37, American Airlines 77 hits the Pentagon in Washington DC. All passengers and crew onboard are killed, as are 125 people in the building. Two minutes after this, Cleveland's air traffic controllers hear a message from the hijackers that are on United 93, which had been intended for the passengers, but again was broadcast on the wrong channel. In it, the hijacker falsely claims there's a bomb onboard, so it seems like that's how they used, they subdued people as saying there was a bomb. And told everyone to remain in their seats, hijackers engage the plane's autopilot and the plane turns, heading southeast towards Washington DC.

• 38:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Right? Then they turn off the plane's transponder, making it more difficult to track, which shouldn't be a thing you can turn off, probably, right? I know, they can't do that anymore, can they?

• 38:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Who knows? These transponders, these days.

• 38:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Truly. The hijackers on the previous three planes had done the same thing, and it's believed that the intended target of this plane is either the White House or the Capitol Building.

• 38:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 38:25Georgia Hardstark?

  The hijackers split up the passengers, sending most to the back of the plane and some to first class. And we know this because the passengers and crew in the back of the plane start making phone calls, including Todd. Todd uses the airphone and wound up talking to Lisa Jefferson at the Verizon Call Center, as I told you in the beginning of this. Again, we don't have the transcript, but Lisa says that she does not tell Todd about the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, not wanting to freak him out. But there are at least 10 passengers on the phone at the same time as Todd, and so the people on Flight 93 do learn about the other attacks. So like, it's not an isolated incident, and, and this is a suicide mission.

• 39:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 39:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Finding that out.

• 39:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Horrifying.

• 39:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 39:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Just...

• 39:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. They also felt themselves change direction, so they are aware that they are now flying back to the East Coast, which is bad news.

• 39:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 39:13Georgia Hardstark?

  At multiple points throughout her conversation with Todd, Lisa offers to connect him with his wife, but he tells her that he doesn't want to scare her and the children.

• 39:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 39:22Georgia Hardstark?

  It seems from Lisa's end of the conversation then that a decision is made pretty quickly. In less than a 10 minute timeframe, it seems like all those passengers back there decide to retake the plane.

• 39:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm hmm.

• 39:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is like fucking bananas.

• 39:35Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. How? Who did it first?

• 39:36Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know. Like, yeah, this like collective, like, we can't just stand here.

• 39:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 39:42Georgia Hardstark?

  And these things already, like, it's almost better that they knew what had already happened because otherwise, maybe they thought everything would be fine. They were just hijacking a plane. It wasn't a suicide mission, but

• 39:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 39:52Georgia Hardstark?

  they found out.

• 39:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 39:53Georgia Hardstark?

  And they're like, we gotta do something.

• 39:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 39:56Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so incredible.

• 39:57Karen Kilgariff?

  If you're up against it, gotta do something.

• 39:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, like, we outnumber them. I mean, and they thought they had a bomb. It's like, but fuck it.

• 40:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 40:03Georgia Hardstark?

  We have to do something. I mean, I'm just, it's unbelievable. So the widow of one of the other passengers says that her husband, while he's on the phone with her then, tells her that a group is planning to fight and that they're waiting until they are above a rural area with no houses because they are aware that crashing the plane will be the likely outcome. They fucking know the plane is going to crash and they're going to die. Let's do this somewhere where it will take as few, you know, people on the ground as possible.

• 40:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, they're thinking of everybody else

• 40:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 40:37Karen Kilgariff?

  the whole time.

• 40:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Because they know if it flies into a building, it's again, like, you know, in Washington where they think they're going, it's going to kill tons of people. We need to take it down now.

• 40:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 40:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Somewhere where just the least amount of damage, but I know I'm going to die. Like, that is

• 40:52Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, like, that they're not just sitting there frozen, like, the person rightfully was, like, freaking out. It's like, they're the ones taking action and they're in the eye of the storm.

• 41:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. So at 9:57 a.m., everyone who is on the phone with loved ones say that they have to go. Everyone gets off the phone.

• 41:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 41:09Georgia Hardstark?

  One caller, who's not named in the reporting, says, quote, "Everyone is running up to first class. I've gotta go. Bye." End quote. It's just like, they decided. Todd asks Lisa to recite the Lord's Prayer with him, and he asks her to tell his family that he loves them, and then asks her to relay a private message to his wife, which Lisa Jefferson has never shared, which is like, oh. Then Lisa hears Todd ask the other people around him, quote, "Are you ready?" end quote. And then she hears them say, "Yes."

• 41:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Todd's the leader.

• 41:42Georgia Hardstark?

  It seems like Todd is part of the people who are like leading us. Then Todd says, quote, "Okay, let's roll."

• 41:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's right, because Neil Young wrote the song.

• 41:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, so "let's roll" becomes this well-known part of the story and it's like, kind of used in a way that is-

• 41:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Very Hollywood.

• 41:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Hollywood, but also political, like George W. Bush turns it into a political phrase.

• 42:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, right.

• 42:04Georgia Hardstark?

  And it just kind of is gross, but like, so let's just look at it now as a man who knew he was about to die said it.

• 42:10Karen Kilgariff?

  A man who knew he was about to die and becomes a leader-

• 42:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 42:13Karen Kilgariff?

  -in, on a plane, where these days, people can't even like sit next to each other without fighting. And this guy gets everybody together and then gets them to do that.

• 42:23Georgia Hardstark?

  And let's roll.

• 42:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's fucking roll.

• 42:26Georgia Hardstark?

  The cockpit's voice recorder was recovered from Flight 93 and it captures the sound of what the 9/11 Commission's report will later call a sustained assault outside the cockpit doors.

• 42:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 42:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Loved ones of the passengers and crew members on that flight can pick out the individual voices of the people they lost who are fighting.

• 42:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Of course they can. Can you imagine if you lose someone and then you get a tape of their last moments? You would be able to fucking-

• 42:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Their last moments fighting for civilians' lives.

• 42:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 42:57Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, that's just, it's so heroic, I can't even, that word isn't even good enough.

• 43:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 43:03Georgia Hardstark?

  The hijackers try to disable the passengers by flying erratically to like throw them all over the plane. And the voice recorder captures the sound of things crashing and breaking glass. The voice recorder captures one hijacker asking the other if he should just crash the plane now. And the other hijacker says to wait until the people reach the cockpit. Like, they realize that-

• 43:24Karen Kilgariff?

  They're gonna get overtaken?

• 43:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And so he says, "Wait." The passengers continue their assault and within two minutes, one of the hijackers yells, "Put it down." Like, they realize they've been overcome.

• 43:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Put the plane down?

• 43:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. This leads the 9/11 Commission to believe that the passengers and crew were about to overcome them.

• 43:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 43:43Georgia Hardstark?

  And in that movie, it shows that. So at 10:02 a.m., United 93, after just skimming the village of Lambertsville with 4,000 people in it, crashes into an abandoned strip mine in the rolling hills of Shanksville, Pennsylvania. So they took it down in the middle of nowhere, barely skimming a town full of people to save

• 44:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Everybody.

• 44:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Everybody's life, but their own.

• 44:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck.

• 44:13Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 44:14Karen Kilgariff?

  And also

• 44:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Chills.

• 44:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, how did they do that?

• 44:17Georgia Hardstark?

  The mentality.

• 44:18Karen Kilgariff?

  How did they do that bravery-wise?

• 44:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 44:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Incredible.

• 44:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Everyone on board is killed instantly, but there are no additional casualties on the ground. The plane would have been about 20 minutes away from Washington, D.C. 15 minutes earlier, US airspace had been shut down and all flights had been ordered to land, finally. And it is possible that before reaching DC, United 93 would have been shot down by military aircraft, because at that point, they had been deployed. However, this would not have ensured the safety of people on the ground, the way the passengers had taken such care to.

• 44:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 44:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, they just were trying to get the plane down any way they could, and passengers were like, we gotta do it where there isn't anybody. Yeah. The crash site in Shanksville has since been turned into a memorial honoring the passengers and crew of United 93. In a clearing in the trees, there's a wall of names with a white marble block for each of the 40 passengers and crew members onboard. There's also something called the Tower of Voices, a 93-foot-tall giant musical instrument that holds 40 wind chimes.

• 45:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 45:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Isn't that beautiful?

• 45:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 45:29Georgia Hardstark?

  One for each voice that was cut short on that flight.

• 45:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck.

• 45:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, you're gonna cry. So in January of 2002, a couple of months later, Lisa Beamer welcomes a baby girl named Morgan. Later that year, she gives an interview on NBC about her husband Todd, and she says that just a few weeks earlier, she'd been digging through some of Todd's things in their home's basement. She says, quote, "I found a catcher's mitt that Todd had bought, and I gave it to David, and he was thrilled, so now he has the whole gear from Daddy," end quote.

• 46:02Georgia Hardstark?

  And that is the story of the passengers of United Flight 93 on 9/11.

• 46:07Karen Kilgariff?

  God damn it.

• 46:09Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 46:10Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, people have the potential to be incredible.

• 46:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 46:13Karen Kilgariff?

  And sometimes it does take the worst of the worst to get that out of people.

• 46:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 46:20Karen Kilgariff?

  And, uh.

• 46:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's practice doing it while not in a dire situation.

• 46:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, exactly.

• 46:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Bringing out the best in you in everyday life.

• 46:29Karen Kilgariff?

  In everyday life, and people have it in them.

• 46:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 46:31Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, god damn, let's roll.

• 46:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's roll.

• 46:37Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, well, thank you guys for listening to this solo episode.

• 46:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry, I cried. I'm kind of tired.

• 46:44Georgia Hardstark?

  We love a good Karen cry. Everyone knows that.

• 46:47Karen Kilgariff?

  And we love your support while we do any kind of type of version of this show so we can do all of the different things we're doing right now. We're so thrilled to be out there seeing you again, doing it in person. It really is the best.

• 47:02Georgia Hardstark?

  It's thrilling.

• 47:02Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so fun. Anyway, stay sexy.

• 47:05Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 47:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 47:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 47:17Karen Kilgariff?

  This has been an Exactly Right production.

• 47:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

• 47:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

• 47:23Georgia Hardstark?

  This episode was mixed by Leona Scolacci.

• 47:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

• 47:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Email your hometowns to [email protected].

• 47:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder.

• 47:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 47:39Karen Kilgariff?

  And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page. While you're there, please like and subscribe.

• 47:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 47:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Vacation planning should feel like a breeze, not a deep dive into countless travel sites searching for the best deal.

• 47:57Georgia Hardstark?

  With Cheap Caribbean's Budget Beach Finder, you can search every destination and every date, all in one search.

• 48:03Karen Kilgariff?

  You'll save time and money with the Budget Beach Finder.

• 48:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Say goodbye to endless scrolling and tab hopping and hello to Budget Beach Bliss at your fingertips.

• 48:11Karen Kilgariff?

  To cheapcaribbean.com to try out the Budget Beach Finder and see just how stress-free vacation planning should be.

• 48:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye. You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium.

• 48:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.

• 48:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals, it's designed to relax and prepare you for a night of rest.

• 48:29Karen Kilgariff?

  If you need a reset after your day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine.

• 48:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Generously spritz each foot before bed and you'll be all set. I've actually started doing this and I'm obsessed with magnesium. It does everything.

• 48:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Something like this is just like, it's simple, it's easy, and it actually works.

• 48:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. For wellness you can feel, find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle. Goodbye.

• 48:51Speaker 03

  Do you ever feel like your computer is tracking you? Well, it's not. It's your browser following you. But not if you come back to Firefox. Firefox blocks the trackers automatically, doesn't follow you from site to site, and supports the ad blockers other browsers dropped. Plus, you can switch AI on or off when its intelligence is acting too artificial. And switching? Totally painless. Your bookmarks, passwords, and browsing history come right with you. Come back to Firefox. Visit firefox.com.