Pod Insights My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark 494 - Did You Just Call Me Baby? About this episode This week, Georgia covers Australia’s Wanda Beach Murders.
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Transcript 11,911 words · 5 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Karen Kilgariff? This is exactly right.
0:06 Speaker 01 In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way. When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, the rubber hits the road. And what the feds uncover is a complex scheme of staged wrecks, financial fraud, and a pair of conspiring lovers behind it. This is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences. Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
0:42 Georgia Hardstark? The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. Sonny's life is pretty great until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his, with one exception: his mom.
0:55 Karen Kilgariff? Starring five-time Emmy nominee Carney Britton and Sam Nivola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.
1:02 Georgia Hardstark? Watch the Hulu original series, Phony.
1:04 Karen Kilgariff? Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.
1:09 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
1:10 Speaker 03 Do you ever feel like your computer is tracking you? Well, it's not. It's your browser following you. But not if you come back to Firefox. Firefox blocks the trackers automatically, doesn't follow you from site to site, and supports the ad blockers other browsers dropped. Plus, you can switch AI on or off when its intelligence is acting too artificial. And switching? Totally painless. Your bookmarks, passwords, and browsing history come right with you. Come back to Firefox. Visit firefox.com.
1:56 Karen Kilgariff? Hello.
1:57 Georgia Hardstark? Hello.
1:58 Karen Kilgariff? And welcome.
1:58 Georgia Hardstark? To my favorite murder.
1:59 Karen Kilgariff? That's Georgia Hardstark.
2:01 Georgia Hardstark? That's Karen Kilgariff.
2:02 Karen Kilgariff? This is the podcast that we've been making for quite some time.
2:06 Georgia Hardstark? Remember us?
2:07 Karen Kilgariff? It's us from the 2016s.
2:09 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God.
2:10 Karen Kilgariff? Hi, how's your choker?
2:13 Georgia Hardstark? Just anything pre 2020 is a joker. I saw this like meme that was like, here's a video from 2010 where they didn't have, you know, their phones recording everything all the time. And I'm like, yes, we did. Yes, they fucking did. 2010? Yes, they did.
2:26 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. When did that? I feel like cell phones came into like constant use like 2002, 2003?
2:34 Georgia Hardstark? I would say 2008, maybe six or eight.
2:37 Karen Kilgariff? Is it?
2:37 Georgia Hardstark? Well, how old was I? 26? No, yeah, later than that, later.
2:40 Karen Kilgariff? Well, like, well iPhones.
2:42 Georgia Hardstark? iPhones, yeah.
2:42 Karen Kilgariff? Flip phones. The idea that you can make a call from your car, I think was like, came into, I just remember my friend getting a phone and me being like, hey, can I use your phone? And she would start to get mad where I'm like, oh, this is costing you money every time I use it.
2:57 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, the car phone?
2:58 Karen Kilgariff? No, no, no.
2:59 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, her actual iPhone.
3:00 Karen Kilgariff? Well, just, it wasn't an iPhone. It was the little Motorola flip phone. That era.
3:04 Georgia Hardstark? My friend had the, um, what's the one that you flip?
3:06 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, BlackBerry?
3:07 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
3:08 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
3:09 Georgia Hardstark? And it was like, oh, she's a drug dealer.
3:10 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
3:11 Georgia Hardstark? She's got a phone.
3:12 Karen Kilgariff? She's got to put it in writing.
3:13 Georgia Hardstark? She did deal drugs.
3:14 Karen Kilgariff? 911. It's drug time.
3:16 Georgia Hardstark? All right. Well, how are you?
3:19 Karen Kilgariff? Very good. And yourself?
3:20 Georgia Hardstark? Good, thanks.
3:21 Karen Kilgariff? Uh huh. What did you, what have you been doing lately?
3:23 Georgia Hardstark? Nothing. Reading a lot.
3:25 Karen Kilgariff? What are you reading?
3:26 Georgia Hardstark? So I found two books by this author named Abigail Dean, British. So it's read in British accent, which we love.
3:33 Karen Kilgariff? Sure.
3:34 Georgia Hardstark? The first one, the one that I read is called Girl A. And it's about like, remember, you know, those stories about like the families that the dad is like a crazy religious person and ends up like keeping them all locked into the house. And this is about the oldest girl who escapes that situation, frees all her siblings. She goes by Girl A because she's a minor, so they don't say her name. And about her life now, when she's older and her life then, and leading up to her having to escape. It's fucking incredible.
4:04 Karen Kilgariff? True story or fiction?
4:05 Georgia Hardstark? No.
4:05 Karen Kilgariff? Okay.
4:05 Georgia Hardstark? Fictional, but like clearly based on some true things.
4:08 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
4:08 Georgia Hardstark? Holy shit. Like I'm on my second listen of it.
4:11 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, wow.
4:12 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Girl A, because there's so many things that you don't put together till the end because there's totally twists in it.
4:18 Karen Kilgariff? Say the author's name again.
4:19 Georgia Hardstark? Abigail Dean.
4:20 Karen Kilgariff? Amazing.
4:20 Georgia Hardstark? And the other book she wrote that I read. It's called Day One, also incredible.
4:26 Karen Kilgariff? Great.
4:26 Georgia Hardstark? Like, highly recommend both of those books.
4:28 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, cool. I just found out that the, I think it was like, late eighties, early nineties version of Anne of Green Gables, which is, I think, the Canadian TV series, is on TV. It's on Prime.
4:42 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, I'm happy for you.
4:43 Karen Kilgariff? And so you can go back and, we can all go back and watch Anne of Green Gables, the series.
4:48 Georgia Hardstark? That reminds me. I watched a movie over the weekend.
4:51 Karen Kilgariff? I'm happy for you. Was it a recommendation of mine?
4:53 Georgia Hardstark? Probably. And I don't know if I liked it.
4:56 Karen Kilgariff? Okay.
4:57 Georgia Hardstark? It's just gonna be controversial.
4:58 Karen Kilgariff? Sure.
4:59 Georgia Hardstark? Sense and sensibility.
5:00 Karen Kilgariff? It wasn't for you?
5:01 Georgia Hardstark? I just didn't like the pairings.
5:03 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
5:03 Georgia Hardstark? Snape should have been with Emma.
5:06 Karen Kilgariff? I know.
5:07 Georgia Hardstark? And Hugh should have been with Kate.
5:08 Karen Kilgariff? I know.
5:09 Georgia Hardstark? But he was so adorable and I didn't expect to think of him so adorably.
5:13 Karen Kilgariff? And that story is like...
5:15 Georgia Hardstark? It was a good movie. I just couldn't get past Snape, the pairings, you know?
5:20 Karen Kilgariff? You're like, I can't believe that this warlock is just walking around.
5:25 Georgia Hardstark? Snape and Rose from Titanic do not belong together.
5:28 Karen Kilgariff? That's just it. They're a mismatch. And she's like, no way. I would never consider you. And then, basically is like...
5:34 Georgia Hardstark? Then she lowers her standards? Like, I don't like that.
5:37 Karen Kilgariff? No, she learns what real love looks and feels like. Which Willoughby fucking have, we all had it. The Willoughbys of my life, I swear to God.
5:46 Georgia Hardstark? I love that they added the moment of him at the end crying, because you're like, that's what I want to see my ex doing.
5:51 Karen Kilgariff? We need that.
5:51 Georgia Hardstark? We need him weeping.
5:53 Karen Kilgariff? All of us who have been Willoughbeed the fuck out, need the moment where it's like, and then that son of a bitch turns.
5:59 Georgia Hardstark? And look, we are. We are that moment, Karen. I'm like, sorry to tell you, but all the Willoughbys are like, holy shit.
6:06 Karen Kilgariff? Yep.
6:07 Georgia Hardstark? Good job.
6:08 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. Good job to you.
6:09 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you, we did it.
6:10 Karen Kilgariff? Actually, this feels pretty satisfying right now.
6:13 Georgia Hardstark? This is our Willoughby moment.
6:14 Karen Kilgariff? I've never thought of it this way.
6:16 Georgia Hardstark? You're a success. You're a success story. You're a fucking Caitlin's leaving the fucking church with Snape. However, you're...
6:25 Karen Kilgariff? If Snape was a podcast deal.
6:26 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
6:27 Karen Kilgariff? They're living in body.
6:28 Georgia Hardstark? You're Willoughbeed and he's fucking writing off into his sad little life. So yeah, congratulations on your...
6:34 Karen Kilgariff? Wow, you too.
6:36 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you.
6:36 Karen Kilgariff? It's a great way to look at Sense and Sensibility. Now, do you like it?
6:39 Georgia Hardstark? I like it now. Listen, don't come after me. I did like the movie. I thought it was great. I just was like, but no.
6:45 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
6:46 Georgia Hardstark? But when are they gonna swap?
6:47 Karen Kilgariff? Right. I mean, no, I know. But I do love that it's like, first of all... Alan Rickman, one of the greats.
6:54 Georgia Hardstark? Sorry, Snape. Yes, he's incredible.
6:56 Karen Kilgariff? Well, but the way he plays that part where you're like, in the beginning, you're like,
7:00 Georgia Hardstark? She's not gonna like you. But it turns out, he's like, the best dude.
7:03 Karen Kilgariff? And it just is that lesson for girls where it's like, yeah, this kind of love feels great because you're basically being fed sugar water.
7:12 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
7:13 Karen Kilgariff? And then you're gonna spin out and be by yourself when he's just like, what? I didn't like you.
7:18 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, have, do that in your twenties. Have fun. But when a guy buys you a fucking piano, or whatever it is that you're interested in and is like, what's it called?
7:25 Karen Kilgariff? Supporting.
7:26 Georgia Hardstark? Supporting.
7:27 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
7:27 Georgia Hardstark? Or encouraging, these things that he thinks make you great, because they do.
7:32 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
7:32 Georgia Hardstark? Then that's the guy.
7:33 Karen Kilgariff? Yes. Not the guy that's just like, here, let me ruin your, tarnish your reputation.
7:38 Georgia Hardstark? Let me cut your hair off. Remember? Cut the lock of her fucking hair.
7:45 Karen Kilgariff? To keep it. The part that, before she gets sick, where she goes, she keeps looking for him, keeps looking for him. I'm like, it is very triggering for me. Because I did all that, I just wanna say, though, I was on speed. So it's kind of not fair. I like, the level to which I made a fool of myself.
8:03 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, me too.
8:04 Karen Kilgariff? That movie, it just puts the feeling back, when she goes to the, like, the big ball.
8:09 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
8:10 Karen Kilgariff? And she sees him and goes, Ruby!
8:12 Georgia Hardstark? And everyone turns. I fucking did that outside of guys' work.
8:16 Karen Kilgariff? Of course.
8:16 Georgia Hardstark? Why isn't he calling you back? I know what time he gets off work. I'm gonna go stand out front.
8:20 Karen Kilgariff? Dude, we've all done it.
8:21 Georgia Hardstark? Twenty years old.
8:22 Karen Kilgariff? So bad. I actually remember the one time I didn't do it. I saw this guy that I was doing stuff like that.
8:28 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
8:28 Karen Kilgariff? And he walked right by me and like, if I had just reached out and went, oh my god, hi, what are you doing?
8:32 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
8:32 Karen Kilgariff? He would have had to stop and say hi, but instead I just literally like,
8:36 Georgia Hardstark? Good.
8:36 Karen Kilgariff? Homer Simpson'd into the wall.
8:38 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
8:38 Karen Kilgariff? And then just like, let him pass. And then that was the beginning of like, you have to stop.
8:43 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
8:44 Karen Kilgariff? You have to stop telling yourself, he's doing what you're doing, because you're just doing a bunch of stuff. And he's...
8:48 Georgia Hardstark? And he's not that great.
8:50 Karen Kilgariff? No.
8:50 Georgia Hardstark? What is that term, that psychological term for when you're obsessed with people, but it's not about them, it's about...
8:55 Karen Kilgariff? Limerence.
8:55 Georgia Hardstark? Limerence.
8:56 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, it's full on limerence.
8:58 Georgia Hardstark? This guy, these guys were not worth a fucking moment of my time. I wasn't obsessing about them, I was obsessing about me and my life. And I just transferred it on to these fucking boring ass beige dudes.
9:10 Karen Kilgariff? But it doesn't matter, because you just have to go through it and learn it.
9:15 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
9:15 Karen Kilgariff? But I wish you didn't. Goddamn sucks.
9:19 Georgia Hardstark? Willoughby.
9:20 Karen Kilgariff? Willoughby.
9:21 Georgia Hardstark? Oh.
9:23 Karen Kilgariff? All right.
9:23 Georgia Hardstark? Find your Snape. Mine's name is Vince. He's incredible. It's a great life when you allow someone to be nice to you.
9:30 Karen Kilgariff? Yep.
9:31 Georgia Hardstark? You know?
9:31 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
9:31 Georgia Hardstark? When you think you're worth being nice to.
9:33 Karen Kilgariff? When they care about the thing that you're putting your heart and soul into and they want to make it better for you.
9:38 Georgia Hardstark? That's right.
9:38 Karen Kilgariff? Instead of, I can't even.
9:41 Georgia Hardstark? Anyway.
9:41 Karen Kilgariff? I can't even give you an example.
9:43 Georgia Hardstark? All right. Well, now that we poured our hearts out.
9:45 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
9:45 Georgia Hardstark? And admitted to so many things.
9:47 Karen Kilgariff? Let's talk about our podcast network.
9:49 Georgia Hardstark? Successful podcast network.
9:50 Karen Kilgariff? That's right. Let's focus on the fundamentals.
9:52 Georgia Hardstark? Right. It's called Exactly Right Media. Here are some highlights.
9:55 Karen Kilgariff? That's right. For example, you remember when we covered the story of Pearl Hart, who was an outlaw feminist and all around badass, also a merch icon.
10:03 Georgia Hardstark? That's right.
10:03 Karen Kilgariff? We've put her on mugs. We've put her on stickers. It's the "I shall never submit" Pearl Hart quote, and designed by Sammy Rich, one of our great listener slash artists, who's done a bunch of great stuff for us. We also have the full quote on T-shirts. You can get either of these designs in the Exactly Right store. So go to ExactlyRightStore.com. That's how easy it is.
10:27 Georgia Hardstark? Wow. Wow. It's a good mug. It's like hearty. It's a hearty mug.
10:32 Karen Kilgariff? And it holds, for me, this is my first cup in the morning when I'm like really trying to get some shit done.
10:38 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
10:38 Karen Kilgariff? You don't have to go back to that coffee pot a bunch of times.
10:41 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
10:41 Karen Kilgariff? It's all in here.
10:42 Georgia Hardstark? Love it. Or beer. Also, please be friends with us on social media. We'll stand outside your work when you get off and beg you to follow us on social media.
10:52 Karen Kilgariff? We will do the equivalent of yelling "Willoughby" anywhere you go.
10:56 Georgia Hardstark? We'll yell "Willoughby" in your face. If you follow us on Instagram and TikTok at MyFavoriteMurder. We do post a lot of really fun stuff. Now, I mean, we have the best social media team. We have behind the scenes clips. We have polls. We have announcements of whatever else we're up to. It's a fun fucking place to be.
11:12 Karen Kilgariff? There's fun stuff going on. Thank you, Shannon.
11:14 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
11:15 Karen Kilgariff? Who runs our social media accounts.
11:16 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you, Shannon.
11:17 Karen Kilgariff? Shannon McEnally, one of the best in the biz. Also, I don't know if you've heard about this or not, you know, we barely bring it up, but we're going on tour.
11:25 Georgia Hardstark? We're going on a little tour.
11:27 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
11:27 Georgia Hardstark? We'd love to see you guys. We've got so many messages on our social medias about how excited you guys are.
11:32 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, in fact, we put out a call where we asked you to send us any favorite tour memories that you have, pictures, video, moments that you loved at live shows that we've done over the years.
11:43 Georgia Hardstark? Tag us.
11:44 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. And also, just so you know, there's still some seats left, at least at the time of this recording.
11:50 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
11:50 Karen Kilgariff? There are some seats left, but go on to myfavoritemurder.com/live and you can go see what the availability is.
11:57 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, we hope to see you there.
11:59 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, please come and yell Will will be at us.
12:02 Georgia Hardstark? Yell Will will be at us, please.
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12:47 Karen Kilgariff? And when you're ready to launch, use offer code MURDER to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Goodbye. You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium.
12:56 Georgia Hardstark? Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.
12:59 Karen Kilgariff? Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals powered by pure Epsom salt and natural Dead Sea salt, it's designed to help you relax and get in the right state of mind for a good night's rest.
13:09 Georgia Hardstark? If you need a reset after a crazy day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine. It's an effortless way to get a boost of topical magnesium that can help you relax your body and mind before bedtime.
13:20 Karen Kilgariff? Dr. Teal's magnesium spray comes in a lightweight, fast-drying formula.
13:23 Georgia Hardstark? Just shake it up and generously spritz onto the soles of your feet and Massage until absorbed.
13:28 Karen Kilgariff? I was kind of blown away the first time I used this spray because I do have problems sleeping. And when there's something this simple, you just sprayed on your feet and suddenly you're asleep and the next morning you're like, wait, what happened? Did my problem just get solved? Like, it actually is that easy.
13:43 Georgia Hardstark? And your stinky feet now smell like lavender. Like, what more do you want?
13:46 Karen Kilgariff? How dare you call my feet stinky.
13:49 Georgia Hardstark? For wellness you can feel, find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle.
13:54 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
13:55 Georgia Hardstark? The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+.
14:00 Karen Kilgariff? Sonny's life is pretty great, until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his with one exception: his mom.
14:07 Georgia Hardstark? To everyone else, she's the same Ellen they've known their whole lives, but for Sonny, he knows something is off.
14:13 Karen Kilgariff? As his relationship with his mother begins to crack in unsettling ways, he's forced to question what happens when the perfect mom becomes a perfect stranger.
14:20 Georgia Hardstark? Is this all in his head or is there really an imposter in his house?
14:24 Karen Kilgariff? Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nevola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.
14:31 Georgia Hardstark? Watch the Hulu original series Phony.
14:34 Karen Kilgariff? Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.
14:38 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
14:39 Speaker 03 Do you ever feel like your computer is tracking you? Well, it's not. It's your browser following you. But not if you come back to Firefox. Firefox blocks the trackers automatically, doesn't follow you from site to site, and supports the ad blockers other browsers dropped. Plus, you can switch AI on or off when its intelligence is acting too artificial. And switching? Totally painless. Your bookmarks, passwords, and browsing history come right with you. Come back to Firefox. Visit Firefox.com.
15:11 Georgia Hardstark? All right, so this is my solo episode. This is my time to shine.
15:15 Karen Kilgariff? Everybody be quiet. I'm talking.
15:18 Georgia Hardstark? All right, well, in the vein of doing some kind of epic episodes and epic stories for solos, today I'm doing a story that we've referenced many times in talking about other unsolved cases. It's one of the biggest cold cases in Australian history and one that has haunted the country for about 60 years. Today, I'm going to tell you the tragic story of the unsolved murders of two teenage girls in the 1960s, the Wanda Beach Murders. All right, well, the main source I use for this story is the very first episode of the incredible Australian true crime podcast, Case File, that we all know and love.
15:54 Karen Kilgariff? Legendary, yes.
15:55 Georgia Hardstark? We've talked about it many times on the show, and the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes.
15:59 Karen Kilgariff? Case File is incredible. If you've never gotten to listen to it and you have a case that you're obsessed with, it's one of the most comprehensively reported, like thoroughly reported podcasts. It's amazing.
16:13 Georgia Hardstark? Without any of the pomp and circumstance that you find here on My Favorite Murder.
16:17 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, or just, yeah, the kind of general conversational aspect. It's just business, business, business, and...
16:24 Georgia Hardstark? And anonymous, which I find so cool. Like, it's been around so long and he's still anonymous. Can you imagine?
16:29 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
16:30 Georgia Hardstark? You and I being anonymous? That would be...
16:32 Karen Kilgariff? Well, what would be the point? Didn't we do all of this for attention in the first place?
16:36 Georgia Hardstark? Always and forever.
16:37 Karen Kilgariff? We really learned that lesson, didn't we?
16:39 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, so on the morning of Tuesday, January 12th, 1965, a 16-year-old boy named Peter Smith is walking in an area of Sydney called the Wanda Beach Sand Hills. It's a long series of dunes by the ocean south of the city. So I am not from a place that has dunes, so I always figured like they weren't very secluded, just like rolling hills of sand. But apparently they're like, you know, like the dune murder that you covered?
17:04 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
17:05 Georgia Hardstark? What was that called? Lady of the Dunes?
17:07 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
17:08 Georgia Hardstark? It's like big, sweeping hills, so you can get like privacy in those dunes, which I find interesting.
17:13 Karen Kilgariff? It's weird because like even in the dunes near Dillon Beach where I grew up, it's not like there's a ton of them, but you truly go over a hill and then you can't see anything past between where the dunes are and where the houses start.
17:25 Georgia Hardstark? Wow, I've never been in a place like that before, I think. Wouldn't have imagined that. Yeah. So he's there in the dunes. Peter is with his three young nephews at the time. And he sees in the dunes what looks at first like a mannequin. And then he quickly realizes that's not what he's looking at. Peter realizes he's looking at the body of a teenage girl, partially buried in the sand. And he sprints to the nearby Wanda Surf Club to get help. He tells the caretaker at the club what he's found and they call the police. When the police arrive, Peter brings them to the spot where he made his horrifying discovery. It's only then that the police see that next to the body Peter discovered is another foot sticking out of the sand. Soon they realize that these are the bodies of two teenage girls who had been reported missing just in the wee hours of that same morning.
18:09 Georgia Hardstark? Their names are Mary Ann Schmidt and Christine Sharick, and they're both just 15 years old. So let's go back to the day before. Monday, January 11th, 1965. Mary Ann and Christine set off by train for the popular beach south of Sydney called Cronulla Beach. This is how you'd refer to the larger beach area. And then the Wanda Beach and those dunes is the name of the smaller beach next to it. So it's a small location and a bigger location. With the teenage girls are four of Mary Ann's younger siblings. The girls are from a town called West Rye, which is northwest of Sydney, and it's not particularly close to Cronulla Beach. But it's like a two hour journey, but it seems like it's the best, closest place to go in Australia. It's summer vacation in Australia, even though it's January. Yeah.
18:54 Georgia Hardstark? How do dates work? Backwards. Yeah. And Mary Ann and Christine had been to the beach recently on New Year's Day, so it's not like anything new. Mary Ann Schmidt's family had immigrated to Australia from Germany in 1958. Her parents are Helmut and Elizabeth Schmidt, and she has five siblings. Helmut Junior, who is a year older than Mary Ann, and then her younger siblings, Hans, Peter, Trixie, Wolfgang, and Norbert. Those are great names. Yeah. In 1963, two years before the murders, Helmut Senior, the father, dies of Hodgkin's lymphoma. So Elizabeth, the mother, is a widow with six kids. The Schmidt family lives next door to a couple named Jim and Jeanette Tagg. And these are Christine's grandparents. And so Christine lives with them.
19:39 Georgia Hardstark? And so Christine and Mary Ann become fast friends. Both girls are described as well behaved, pretty quiet and shy, pretty innocent girls. They love music. They love particularly Elvis Presley. And they're almost always together. It sounds like they're pretty sheltered, as is normal for suburban girls at that time. Mary Ann's mom goes into the hospital for surgery in early January. And so Mary Ann and Helmut Jr., her big brother, are left in charge of all the younger kids. So on the 9th of January, Mary Ann and Christine had gotten permission to take some of those younger kids to the beach. So everyone, the little kids, except Helmut Jr. and Hans are going. And so that group is the teenage girls.
20:21 Georgia Hardstark? And then Peter, who is 10, Trixie, who's nine, Wolfgang, who's seven, and Norbert, who's five. So on the day of this beach trip, Christine had mentioned to her grandmother that they might take the group over to Wanda Beach and the sand hills. Christine says she and Mary Ann had wandered there previously, but Christine's grandmother tells her that'll be too far to walk for the little kids, tells her not to go, just stay at the main beach. And it's unclear if Christine's grandmother knows this, but the Wanda Sand Hills are actually known to be an area where people go for privacy, meaning it's also a place where couples go to have sex, but also where you can find creeps and voyeurs and all kinds of unsavory characters.
21:01 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
21:01 Georgia Hardstark? So maybe that's why she told them not to go over there.
21:03 Karen Kilgariff? Because it's like this perfect little hiding spot. It's like a little sand ravine.
21:08 Georgia Hardstark? It's like a hookup spot, probably, right?
21:10 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
21:11 Georgia Hardstark? And while Cronulla is a beautifully maintained public beach, the sand hills are full of litter, they're not monitored at all. It's a much more desolate area. And so it sounds like on their previous trip to the beach, Christine and Mary Ann had wandered on these sand hills already, but it's unclear who, if anyone, they met there. But it is a cool, kind of unique spot anyways, so it's not weird that they would have wandered there.
21:34 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
21:35 Georgia Hardstark? So the kids set out around 10 a.m. On the train, witnesses see the girls get into a conversation with a teenage boy who looks about 15 years old. There's not much more of a description of him than that. But when the kids have to change trains to get on the one that brings them to the beach, the boy stays behind on the original train. They never ID him or figure out who he was. And everyone gets to the beach at around 11 a.m. When there, the weather is not great for swimming. It's windy, the seas are choppy, and people are warned not to go in. But Wolfgang really wants to go in, so Marian takes him in the shallow end just for a little bit. And then the kids all sit down by some rocks with their lunch. So while this is happening, the girls talk to another teenage boy who was hunting for crabs, and then they go their separate ways.
22:19 Georgia Hardstark? The older girls decide to take everyone for a walk in those sand hills, despite warnings from Christine's grandma. And again, it's a pretty far walk from the main beach, and the kids are pretty young. So this whole story is like, were they going to meet someone, or was it totally happenstance? It doesn't completely make sense that they wandered there and met someone. It seems almost like they were looking for someone. Maybe they had met them the last time they were at the beach.
22:43 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
22:44 Georgia Hardstark? Seems that way.
22:45 Karen Kilgariff? And it seems like little kids at the beach would want to be in the water.
22:48 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
22:48 Karen Kilgariff? Like, they don't want to be like up in the dunes, walking around.
22:51 Georgia Hardstark? And the walk is a mile from the main beach, which is a long walk for like, it's like five and seven year olds.
22:57 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
22:58 Georgia Hardstark? You know what I mean? Like, I don't think they would have volunteered to go do that.
23:01 Karen Kilgariff? Well, and just like, you just want to be where the action is, which is down by the water.
23:04 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
23:05 Karen Kilgariff? Where everybody else is.
23:05 Georgia Hardstark? Right. Right around when they get to those sand hills, where they start, the younger kids are tired. They don't want to go any further. The girls tell them to sit down. They said they'll walk back to the rocks where they left their stuff. Then they'll come back for the kids, and they'll all head home. They're going to grab their stuff, and they can go. But the older girls don't walk back in the direction of the rocks where their stuff is. They keep heading north toward the sand hills. When the older sibling, Peter, who's nine, you know, points this out to them, the girls just kind of laugh it off and keep going. So what does it mean?
23:36 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
23:37 Georgia Hardstark? You know?
23:37 Karen Kilgariff? We don't know.
23:38 Georgia Hardstark? 10 minutes pass, and then Peter sends seven-year-old Wolfgang to go look for the girls. From a distance, Wolfgang sees the girls talking to a boy, who he later says looks about 16 years old. He says the boy was wearing gray pants, no shirt, and had long blond hair.
23:52 Karen Kilgariff? Hmm.
23:53 Georgia Hardstark? He's very tan and has white sunblock on his nose and he's holding a blue towel. And this is from a seven-year-old, though, and later after this trauma happens. So, you know, it's hard to know exactly how accurate this is of what he saw.
24:07 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, you don't want to base anything on, yeah.
24:09 Georgia Hardstark? Right. Wolfgang says the boy seemed angry and was asking the girls their names. He says the three of them then walk farther into the sand hills and then Wolfgang loses sight of them. And he stays in that same spot. And after about 10 minutes, Wolfgang sees the same teenager walking out of the sand hills, this time alone. He says his beach towel is now tied around his neck. And Wolfgang asks the boy where the girls are and the older boy ignores him and keeps walking. Wolfgang will later add two crucial details to his testimony. First, he says that this is the same boy the group had seen earlier who had been hunting crabs. And second, that he says that when he saw the boy talking to the girls, the boy had what he described as a hunting knife attached to his belt.
24:52 Georgia Hardstark? And when the boy is walking back to the beach after, without the girls, the knife is gone. But all of this comes out in drips. And apparently the details change a bit as he's relaying it to the police later. Remember, he's only seven years old. And we don't know if this guy had anything to actually do with it in the first place.
25:09 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
25:10 Georgia Hardstark? Doesn't mean that he was actually a suspect.
25:12 Karen Kilgariff? Right, exactly. It also doesn't mean that the police didn't coerce some sort of like, well, did you see anybody?
25:18 Georgia Hardstark? Did you see a knife? You know, they got stabbed?
25:20 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, because to me, it seems like, thinking of the average seven-year-old, there's a lot of details in that that are like, maybe they're absolutely from him and he was super observant, whatever. But it doesn't, I don't know.
25:32 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, like my nephew, who's that young, I could totally see being like fed information and not realizing. He's just trying to please you or he's trying to, maybe has a memory that's not real.
25:44 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, because it's the mid 60s, right?
25:46 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
25:46 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. So none of that coercion stuff is even beginning
25:50 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
25:50 Karen Kilgariff? in police questioning.
25:52 Georgia Hardstark? Right. And not to say that it's on purpose, but
25:54 Karen Kilgariff? No.
25:54 Georgia Hardstark? it's just easy to feed information to kids.
25:57 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
25:57 Georgia Hardstark? All right. So Wolfgang rejoins the other kids after he's, you know, doesn't see the girls come back. And the kids wait for the rest of the afternoon, but they know the last train home leaves at 6:00 PM. So at around 5 o'clock, they start making their way back down the beach.
26:10 Karen Kilgariff? So scary.
26:11 Georgia Hardstark? I know. Like, what do we do?
26:13 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
26:13 Georgia Hardstark? What do we do?
26:14 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
26:14 Georgia Hardstark? So scary. They retrieve their belongings by the rocks where they left them, and they make the two-hour train ride home. All of this is done under the supervision of Peter, who's nine again. When they get home around 8 o'clock, they tell their families about the girls' disappearance. And it's at that point that the girls' families call the police, because it's just so out of character. You know, these like shy, well-behaved girls to disappear.
26:36 Karen Kilgariff? And poor Peter had to like make a call.
26:38 Georgia Hardstark? Totally. He had to wait the two hours to get home.
26:41 Karen Kilgariff? Yep.
26:41 Georgia Hardstark? And then...
26:42 Karen Kilgariff? He had to get those kids on that train correctly.
26:44 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
26:44 Karen Kilgariff? He, and he also had to be like, what I'm going to do now is go home and then tell them when I get there.
26:49 Georgia Hardstark? Right. Something's off and I know it, but I have to get these kids home.
26:53 Karen Kilgariff? Yes. It's horrifying.
26:55 Georgia Hardstark? It's awful. The police respond to the call around midnight. Like many of these cases that we talked about, the police are not immediately worried or fired up about the disappearance of teenage girls. They're inclined to think that they went somewhere willingly, but the fact that they were generally known to be responsible, happy girls, and that they left all the kids at the beach is even then seen as concerning.
27:17 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
27:18 Georgia Hardstark? The next morning, when the girls' bodies are discovered, investigators descend upon the beach, and the missing girls are quickly identified. The girls had been mostly covered with sand, but it seems like it was because the wind had blown the sand over them overnight. Not that they were buried, which seems like a crucial detail, but who knows? About 100 feet away from where the girls were found, investigators find blood and signs of a struggle. There's a drag mark leading from this area to where both the girls were found. And this leads investigators to believe that Mary Ann had been killed roughly in the place where her body was found, and that perhaps Christine had tried to run away and was chased down and killed about 100 feet away, and then dragged to the place where both of the girls were found.
28:00 Karen Kilgariff? Horrifying.
28:01 Georgia Hardstark? I know.
28:01 Karen Kilgariff? And also, just like knowing that right over that dune, like so close are these little kids.
28:06 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
28:07 Karen Kilgariff? So they're...
28:08 Georgia Hardstark? In danger, but then they're also like, we're all in danger.
28:11 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
28:13 Georgia Hardstark? Along the drag marks, there are places with higher concentrations of blood, leading investigators to believe that whoever dragged her had to stop several times to take breaks. And this is important because Christine was a very petite girl. So this makes investigators think that her killer maybe wasn't particularly strong, which again, leads us to a teenage boy making sense as the culprit. You know what I mean?
28:36 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
28:38 Georgia Hardstark? So tire tracks are found about 30 meters away. Investigators think the killer may have left in the car, but it's not known if those tire tracks had anything to do with what's going on with the girls' bodies being found. There's a road, it's not very busy, but who knows?
28:52 Karen Kilgariff? If enough wind blew to cover them in sand, then couldn't those tire tracks be new from that morning?
28:58 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
28:59 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
29:00 Georgia Hardstark? So both girls have been brutally attacked and the details are so awful that they are never fully released to the public.
29:07 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
29:07 Georgia Hardstark? I know. Both girls have been stabbed multiple times. Both have been sexually assaulted. Christine had been also hit in the head with a blunt object. Police believe this may have been a rock, but there are many possibilities, which is what's so frustrating about this case. They believe the instrument used for the stabbing may have been a fishing knife. Police recover a semen sample, though it's 1965, of course, so it's not, you know, as crucial as it would later be, or thought to be as crucial. The pathologist is unable to estimate a precise time of death since the girls had been buried in hot sand. He can only estimate that their deaths had occurred between 2:00 PM and midnight. And this is just another baffling part. Christine is also found to have undigested cabbage and celery
29:48 Georgia Hardstark? in her stomach. She also had a blood alcohol reading that would suggest that she had either one drink very shortly before she died, or several drinks over the course of the hours leading to her death. None of the kids report having seen Christine drinking. She hadn't brought any alcohol with her at all. And so the first possibility seems more likely. To me, it sounds like if the teenage boy theory is right, you meet this hot teenage boy on the beach. He's like, want a swig from my flask?
30:18 Karen Kilgariff? Yep.
30:18 Georgia Hardstark? You want to seem cool, you take a swig. So that's the one drink, you know? I definitely would have done it personally.
30:24 Karen Kilgariff? Absolutely. And that's kind of like, that's what the beach is for.
30:28 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
30:28 Karen Kilgariff? It's like fun times.
30:29 Georgia Hardstark? For sure. We used to take a bus to Newport Beach when we should not have been anywhere near that fucking place.
30:34 Karen Kilgariff? Well, because it's free, it's a public place. There's people, you know, there's going to be people there.
30:38 Georgia Hardstark? The sketchiest people.
30:39 Karen Kilgariff? Sketchiest people.
30:40 Georgia Hardstark? The sketchiest people.
30:42 Karen Kilgariff? The weird thing is, though, when you say cabbage and then celery, I'm like, celery sounds like she had a Bloody Mary.
30:48 Georgia Hardstark? No, okay, yes, let me finish this. No, no, okay. So she didn't have alcohol with her stuff. She also, but she also didn't have anything containing cabbage and celery that she brought to the beach. But these ingredients are commonly found in an Australian snack called a chico roll, which is basically like a cross between a spring roll and a burrito.
31:05 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, okay.
31:05 Georgia Hardstark? She would have had to have eaten this within an hour of her death. So where did she get that?
31:11 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
31:11 Georgia Hardstark? In the same place where she got a swig of alcohol.
31:13 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
31:14 Georgia Hardstark? All of this information leads investigators to believe that Christine may have been given food and alcohol by her killer. Police bring all the kids back to the sand hills to retrace their steps and tell them everything they remember. Which is like, oh, I know.
31:27 Karen Kilgariff? Trauma.
31:27 Georgia Hardstark? Trauma city. This is where Wolfgang's story about the teenager he first saw starts emerging. Sounds like the detail about him carrying what he thought was a hunting knife would have come out after he knew the girls had been stabbed. So as we said. Still, the media runs with the idea that police are looking for a surfer-looking teenager. I can't help but think of Spicoli. Like, that's the look, you know what I mean?
31:48 Karen Kilgariff? Right. And usually those dudes, if they truly are surfers, they're like, listen, I just came back here to get high. Please don't bother me, like.
31:56 Georgia Hardstark? Totally. Or, hey, here's some cute teenage girls.
31:58 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
31:59 Georgia Hardstark? Like, you know, but he's a bad news.
32:01 Karen Kilgariff? Bad actor.
32:01 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. They get thousands of tips. The problem being, of course, that that look for teenage boys in Australia at the time is fucking everyone, you know?
32:12 Georgia Hardstark? A massive search of the dunes takes place.
32:14 Karen Kilgariff? Although would long hair be, if it's 1965?
32:17 Georgia Hardstark? I feel like long hair and the nose, the like zinc oxide on the nose. Another girl would have met a guy like that at that same beach at some time in the past six months.
32:25 Karen Kilgariff? And been like, I know who that guy is.
32:26 Georgia Hardstark? Totally. And maybe they did.
32:28 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, maybe.
32:29 Georgia Hardstark? I'm sure tons of tips, thousands of tips come in. A massive search of the dunes takes place with thousands of investigators aided by the army, digging up thousands of pounds of sand and sifting it. In the end, investigators find a one-inch section of a knife blade that is found to have trace amounts of blood on it. It's unclear if this had been part of the murder weapon, though the pathologist did believe that some of Christine's wounds could have come from a broken blade. So it's possible.
32:55 Karen Kilgariff? Good.
32:56 Georgia Hardstark? Police read the girls' diaries and find out that on the girls' initial visit to the beach on New Year's Day, about two weeks before they took the siblings, they, girls had met and kissed two teenage boys, which is the point of going to the beach when you're a teenager.
33:09 Karen Kilgariff? That's right. And the reason you go back, hoping to see those.
33:13 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
33:13 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
33:14 Georgia Hardstark? The boys are known to the public only by their first names, Ted and Jim. Police make an appeal for those boys to come forward, and they do. And they confirm that they had met the girls on the beach on New Year's Day, but they said they never made plans to meet them again. And both the boys have alibis that check out, so they're cleared. But it does seem like they're going back to the beach for the same reason.
33:36 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
33:36 Georgia Hardstark? But then why bring their siblings or little siblings?
33:39 Karen Kilgariff? They had no choice.
33:40 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
33:41 Karen Kilgariff? Because they basically were babysitting. So it's like, well, make a day of it and then hopefully we see those boys there.
33:46 Georgia Hardstark? Right. Or it's an excuse to go, like, let our parents go there again.
33:48 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
33:49 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, that's true. So many people believe that the girls had planned to meet someone in the sand hills that day, since they were so adamant about going, despite having the kids with them, and despite warnings from Christine's grandmother not to take the kids. And again, remember when they walked away and the brother was like, that's not the direction you're supposed to go in, and they laughed it off and kept going?
34:07 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
34:07 Georgia Hardstark? That seems like they were purposely going to meet someone.
34:10 Karen Kilgariff? It also feels like maybe if that was their first foray into beach culture.
34:14 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
34:15 Karen Kilgariff? Like, it's like, you know, those boys are like, come over here, this is where people drink or do this or that. They're still gonna do it.
34:21 Georgia Hardstark? Find them, find someone.
34:22 Karen Kilgariff? Like, little kids, you go have your fun over by the water.
34:25 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
34:25 Karen Kilgariff? We'll be right back.
34:26 Georgia Hardstark? I mean, I did that many times. Still, if they were going to meet someone, it doesn't really make any sense because it's 1965. They were supposed to have gone the day before. You can't really reschedule. So as police sort through thousands of tips, they focus on testimony from a man named Dennis Dastin, who reports having seen the girls hurrying through the sand hills on the day of their murder and thought he saw one of them looking over their shoulder as if someone was following them. Dennis is the last known person to have seen the girls. He hadn't seen anyone else with the girls, so he says, but he had seen other people in the sand hills. He describes a tall, pale man who looked about 19 years old and a stocky or older
35:09 Georgia Hardstark? man, maybe in his 40s. Neither of these men are identified or come forward. But other witnesses come forward with descriptions of several other people they saw in the dunes that day. And police get descriptions of about eight people who may have been in the area at the time. Because remember, this is the place where people meet up for nefarious acts.
35:30 Karen Kilgariff? Sure.
35:31 Georgia Hardstark? You know? So no one's coming forward to be like, yeah, I was there that day cheating on my wife.
35:34 Karen Kilgariff? I was getting high and having secret sex.
35:38 Georgia Hardstark? Right, exactly. Like, that's not gonna happen.
35:40 Karen Kilgariff? Right. But also, can I just point out, and I could be completely wrong about this, but if I'm just doing my try to solve it as we go.
35:48 Georgia Hardstark? Which you must.
35:49 Karen Kilgariff? That guy saying he saw a tall, skinny, pale guy and a short, dark...
35:54 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
35:55 Karen Kilgariff? I hate when that happens. It's like, that seems like a lie.
35:57 Georgia Hardstark? That seems like something you made up.
35:58 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
35:59 Georgia Hardstark? Totally. Like, yeah, this guy's suspicious, too.
36:01 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. Also, why is a tall, pale guy in the dunes? That pale guy would be in his room.
36:06 Georgia Hardstark? That's a really good point.
36:07 Karen Kilgariff? A pale guy doesn't want to be there.
36:09 Georgia Hardstark? That's a really good point.
36:10 Karen Kilgariff? Was he holding a map going, where's the subway?
36:12 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God. Why is a pale guy at the beach? That's a great question. That doesn't make sense.
36:16 Karen Kilgariff? I say as a pale person who has definitely gone to the beach a bunch.
36:20 Georgia Hardstark? Police make an appeal for people to come forward. They release a map of the area that they're particularly interested in, and this does generate some new witness testimonies. People hadn't realized how close to the crime scene they had been that day because those secluded dunes, I mean, it's so creepy. But none of the testimonies lead to any suspects. Police officers are posted up in the sand dunes. They dress as sunbathers, like undercover. They're looking for any people who were described by other witnesses, particularly, of course, that teenager that Wolfgang had seen, but nothing comes of it.
36:52 Karen Kilgariff? Hmm.
36:53 Georgia Hardstark? Because, of course, he's not gonna go back to the scene of the crime.
36:55 Karen Kilgariff? You're gonna go get a buzz cut and get that zinc off his nose, like, if that's the guy.
37:00 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Pale guy's gonna get a tan.
37:04 Karen Kilgariff? Pale guy's desperately laying out as fast as he can.
37:06 Georgia Hardstark? Right. By the end of January, a reward is issued for £10,000. Shortly after this, Australia adopts the Australian dollar and the reward becomes 20,000 Australian dollars. So £10,000 is 20,000 Australian dollars. In today's money, you want to guess how much? It's impossible. We've got pounds, we've got Australian dollars, and now we have US dollars.
37:28 Karen Kilgariff? 130.
37:29 Georgia Hardstark? 250.
37:30 Karen Kilgariff? Damn.
37:31 Georgia Hardstark? So 250,000 in today's money at that time, amazingly, the reward is still valid today for information that would lead to the killer.
37:39 Karen Kilgariff? That's a lot of money.
37:41 Georgia Hardstark? It's a lot of money then, and it's not been raised at all. Like, you haven't generated any leads with that amount of money?
37:47 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
37:47 Georgia Hardstark? You're not, and you're not gonna...
37:48 Karen Kilgariff? It's still 20,000 Australian dollars.
37:50 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. So with inflation, now is worth significantly less. Do you want to guess how much it's worth now? It was 250,000 US dollars in 65. Today, it's worth about in US dollars?
38:04 Karen Kilgariff? 90,000?
38:06 Georgia Hardstark? 13,000.
38:07 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, my god.
38:08 Georgia Hardstark? That doesn't sound right, does it?
38:10 Karen Kilgariff? We've gone through a lot of turmoil.
38:11 Georgia Hardstark? We really have.
38:12 Karen Kilgariff? Since the 60s.
38:13 Georgia Hardstark? So now it's only 13,000. It's not 250,000 anymore.
38:16 Karen Kilgariff? They gotta raise it up.
38:17 Georgia Hardstark? Exactly. So in April of that same year, two 15-year-old girls are attacked, or almost attacked, at a train station not too far from the same beach where Wanda Dunes are at. A teenage boy grabs one of them, they both scream, and the boy runs away. I mean, the similarities. The description of him is not very different from Wolfgang's description of Spicoli, the surfer-looking guy he had seen talking to the girls angrily. A sketch of this teenager, along with sketches of several other people who have been described as being predatory in the dunes, because there are fucking also creeps hanging out, peeping toms, guys just exposing themselves.
38:55 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
38:56 Georgia Hardstark? Those sketches are released to the public. Of these sketches, two gain a lot of attention. One is of a person described as, quote, "the fat man." He had approached women on the beach near the dunes on the day of the murders and on other days with porn magazines.
39:11 Karen Kilgariff? Ma'am, please, will you read this to me?
39:13 Georgia Hardstark? You know how that's so...
39:14 Karen Kilgariff? I can't read.
39:15 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
39:15 Karen Kilgariff? Can I? The articles.
39:17 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my god. And also asked them inappropriate questions. So fucking sketch.
39:21 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
39:22 Georgia Hardstark? They also come up with a sketch of a younger man with long hair who had inappropriately propositioned women as well, but none of these people are ever identified. It's not a safe place. By the beginning of 1966, a year after the murders, the number of police assigned to the case drops from 40 to 8. By this point in time, police have conducted around 7,000 interviews. And at the same time, two older women are murdered in brutal frenzied knife attacks in public places in Sydney. Their names are Wilhelmina Kruger and Anna Dolancoa. Police are fairly sure that these two cases of these two women are related, and they wonder if they could also be related to the Wanda Beach murders.
40:02 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
40:02 Georgia Hardstark? They seem very similar. At the same time, the country's focus shifts to Adelaide, where the three Beaumont children disappear from a beach on a national holiday. And that becomes, it's three little kids, gone without a trace. That becomes a huge story. This disappearance, the Wanda Beach murders, and the Adelaide Oval abduction that I covered in episode 466, which happens in the 70s, are all seen as some of Australia's most notorious and tragic unsolved cases. So these all kind of happen around the same time and get kind of grouped together. They're all unsolved.
40:32 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
40:33 Georgia Hardstark? I mean, there are a few theories that have circulated over the years. One name that comes up over and over again is a person that we've spoken about on the show. His name's Christopher Wilder, who would go on to be the Beauty Queen Killer, who I recently covered in episode 472. Christopher was living in Sydney and would have been 19 at the time of the murders. In 1963, when he was 17, he had been convicted of raping a 13-year-old girl in the company of two other men who denied participating in the assault. He had been given probation and had gotten electroshock therapy. He was questioned in a series of sexual assaults at a different beach, which was closer to Sydney in 1968, a couple of years after.
41:13 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
41:13 Georgia Hardstark? Like, super suspicious. He'd also lured a 19-year-old into his car and coerced her into taking nude photos and had attempted to assault her, but she got away.
41:24 Karen Kilgariff? Why does nothing ever fucking stick on these men? It's like, we're talking about big-picture stuff and then details, but it's that kind of thing where it's like, they get away with it over and over.
41:35 Georgia Hardstark? Back then, especially, where it was just like, slap on the wrist.
41:39 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, Peeping Tom, he's just a funny kid from that movie, Porky's, whatever. We're just like, Jesus Christ.
41:46 Georgia Hardstark? Right, or Back to the Future. How charming it is that they met because he fell out of a tree because he was fucking... Watching her undress.
41:53 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, yes. It's wild. And I mean, it's a wild thing where it's just kind of like funny cultural comedy. It actually is like, no, this is a red flag.
42:02 Georgia Hardstark? Totally, a huge red flag.
42:04 Karen Kilgariff? But in that case specifically, what were those authorities doing where they're finding these guys doing similar, parallel crimes?
42:12 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
42:13 Karen Kilgariff? And then just being like, well?
42:14 Georgia Hardstark? Maybe they're connected. Goodbye.
42:16 Karen Kilgariff? Bye.
42:16 Georgia Hardstark? Because he moves to the US not long after. And then he visits Australia in 1982, when he comes back and he abducts two 15-year-old girls, ties them up, photographs them. So it's like, bro.
42:30 Karen Kilgariff? The same thing.
42:31 Georgia Hardstark? Pattern. It's called a pattern at this point.
42:33 Karen Kilgariff? And it's escalating and it's been dangerous since day one, but we're gonna wait until multiple people are killed.
42:39 Georgia Hardstark? Right. Because he leaves Australia then while still awaiting trial. And two years after that, he goes on to the horrific murder spree, The Beauty Queen Killer.
42:48 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, my god.
42:48 Georgia Hardstark? That I covered in the show.
42:50 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
42:50 Georgia Hardstark? Like, this guy is a predator, an evil predator. At 19, his physical description wouldn't have been different from the teenager Wolfgang had described.
42:59 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
43:00 Georgia Hardstark? Furthermore, he was living in Ride, one town over from the two girls. So maybe they had seen him or met him before or knew him. People wonder whether if Christopher wasn't the surfer teen on the beach, he may have been the teenager seen talking to the girls on that first train on the way to Cronulla.
43:17 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, yeah.
43:18 Georgia Hardstark? That said, after his death, police in Australia do get a blood sample. And as far as we know, it's never been linked to physical evidence from the crimes. But I mean, crazier shit than it not having been tested has happened.
43:29 Karen Kilgariff? Right, yes, for sure.
43:31 Georgia Hardstark? And the blood samples that were collected from Christine's clothing are now considered too degraded to be tested with the technology we currently have.
43:39 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
43:40 Georgia Hardstark? It's unclear if they were too degraded to compare with Christopher's blood by 1984, when he died, or if at the time they were tested and were not a match, like, let's get this retested. Frustratingly, the semen that was collected at the time of the murders of the girls has said to have been lost. And it's unclear what happened to those samples.
44:01 Karen Kilgariff? Upsetting, frustrating, typical. It's like, until 1994, it was the dark ages.
44:08 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
44:09 Karen Kilgariff? It was just, hopefully you got an organized, responsible cop that was writing everything down and doing it by the book.
44:16 Georgia Hardstark? Totally. And then hopefully you find someone later who cares enough to test and bring it back. And they give them funding to do such things because they care.
44:26 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
44:27 Georgia Hardstark? It's just, yeah, it's a crapshoot.
44:29 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
44:29 Georgia Hardstark? Another name that comes up over and over again, because of course, there's multiple.
44:33 Karen Kilgariff? Because there's so many.
44:34 Georgia Hardstark? Fucking creeps.
44:35 Karen Kilgariff? Choices.
44:35 Georgia Hardstark? Is a man named Alan Bassett. He's convicted of another horrible sexual assault and murder in 1966, and he's diagnosed with schizophrenia and winds up serving his sentence in a psychiatric hospital. A police detective who's absolutely convinced that Bassett is the killer, continued to correspond with him, and Bassett painted a picture for this detective, literally a painted picture.
44:58 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
44:59 Georgia Hardstark? And the detective maintains that the painting contained information from the Wanda Beach murders that has never been released to the public.
45:05 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
45:06 Georgia Hardstark? This detective has since died, and what this information is has never been disclosed in the years since, because it's not released to the public. Like, he just thinks in the painting, there's some connection that only the killer would know.
45:19 Karen Kilgariff? He doesn't fucking write it down on a piece of paper?
45:21 Georgia Hardstark? Yep, maybe he did, but they don't release that information.
45:24 Karen Kilgariff? Did you just call me baby?
45:26 Georgia Hardstark? No. Why would I call you baby? I said.
45:30 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, you said maybe he did.
45:31 Georgia Hardstark? May- baby, he did.
45:33 Karen Kilgariff? I'm like, what the fuck is happening?
45:35 Georgia Hardstark? Baby, baby, baby.
45:37 Karen Kilgariff? Calm down.
45:37 Georgia Hardstark? Baby.
45:38 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, yeah.
45:39 Georgia Hardstark? I just called you.
45:40 Karen Kilgariff? So sorry. My mistake.
45:41 Georgia Hardstark? No, no, it's good, it's good. Leave, please leave it in.
45:45 Georgia Hardstark? I tripped over my words, for sure.
45:46 Karen Kilgariff? Basically, maybe he did, but then it just didn't get saved. It didn't get recorded.
45:51 Georgia Hardstark? It didn't get released.
45:52 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, I see.
45:53 Georgia Hardstark? Maybe it got recorded. It's a piece of information that hasn't been released to the public, so that if they release that painting, they're releasing a piece of information, which at this point, we're all, I'm, we're always like, release it.
46:02 Karen Kilgariff? Just release it.
46:03 Georgia Hardstark? Just release more information, please.
46:05 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
46:05 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
46:06 Karen Kilgariff? Baby, please.
46:06 Georgia Hardstark? Baby, please.
46:07 Karen Kilgariff? Please, baby.
46:10 Georgia Hardstark? That has to be the name of it. Want another name? Because of course, there's another name that keeps popping up.
46:15 Karen Kilgariff? Creeps abound here.
46:17 Georgia Hardstark? They sure do. The name of this person is Derek Percy. He's considered a suspect in the disappearance of the Beaumont children.
46:23 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, yeah.
46:24 Georgia Hardstark? Because that had just happened a year later, as well as other disappearances and murders of children in Australia throughout the 60s. In 1969, four years after the Wanda Beach murders, he abducted and murdered a 13-year-old girl named Yvonne Toohey and was found not guilty for reasons of insanity. He spent the rest of his life in a psychiatric hospital and died in 2013 without ever admitting to any other murders, but a lot of people suspect him for the Beaumont children's disappearance.
46:52 Karen Kilgariff? Okay.
46:53 Georgia Hardstark? Yvonne's murder had been in Melbourne, where Percy was stationed with the Navy, and he was from the state of Victoria, not very close to Sydney. But it's unclear if he would have been in Sydney at the time of the Wanda Beach murders, but it's not been ruled out. But it's just, again, one of those things where like, people don't want to face that there's multiple child killers. It's not, you know?
47:11 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
47:12 Georgia Hardstark? It's just, he's just another sicko.
47:14 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, that has this insane rap sheet, but is free to wander, wander the beach anytime he so chooses.
47:21 Georgia Hardstark? Right. So this past January was the 60th anniversary of Mary Ann and Christine's murders. The $20,000 Australian reward still stands, but Hans Schmidt, Mary Ann's little brother, wishes the amount would increase so that perhaps a family member of the killer would come forward.
47:39 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
47:40 Georgia Hardstark? You know?
47:40 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
47:40 Georgia Hardstark? Money talks. He says, quote, "We sit at one of the most horrific murders in the country, and we're still at $20,000."
47:48 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
47:49 Georgia Hardstark? "It's a pittance because of that lack of increase." You know? I mean, in what world?
47:54 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, you'd think that there are people who could make that change.
47:58 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
47:58 Karen Kilgariff? It's like, don't they fundraise for like? The Police Softball Association.
48:03 Georgia Hardstark? Right, right. Of his big sister who took him to the beach 60 years ago, he says, quote, "It would have been nice if she were still around. She would be 75 now," end quote. And that is the story of one of Australia's most haunting cold cases, the murders of Christine Sherrick and Mary Ann Schmidt at Wanda Beach.
48:23 Karen Kilgariff? Wow, that was great. I mean, that was horrifying and it is really upsetting. But then also, as we talk about stuff like this, and then it just like, well, if they do make these changes and we now have the science, like, couldn't this be something they put AI toward instead of like, it needs to write movies? Couldn't it be something like cold case patterns, old,
48:45 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
48:46 Karen Kilgariff? old evidence, processing stuff?
48:48 Georgia Hardstark? Interesting.
48:49 Karen Kilgariff? You know?
48:49 Georgia Hardstark? I mean, it's not too late, as we now know. You know, so many of these cold cases are being solved and they just, they need answers.
48:56 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
48:57 Georgia Hardstark? You know?
48:58 Karen Kilgariff? Or like some rich Australian.
49:00 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
49:02 Karen Kilgariff? Get it going.
49:03 Georgia Hardstark? Come on, uh, who's a rich Australian?
49:06 Karen Kilgariff? Ryan Seacrest?
49:10 Karen Kilgariff? This whole time he's been covering up the most insane accent.
49:13 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God.
49:16 Georgia Hardstark? Well, thank you to rich and not rich Australians for listening to this.
49:21 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, oh, well, great job, by the way. That was really, that was really amazing. I mean, this really is the promise of your stories.
49:27 Georgia Hardstark? I know.
49:27 Karen Kilgariff? Is that then there will be a news report someday that's like.
49:30 Georgia Hardstark? There have been some. I just haven't talked about them, but maybe we need to give those updates.
49:34 Karen Kilgariff? You, maybe that would be a good solo episode, is you just do all cold case recaps.
49:38 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
49:39 Karen Kilgariff? When there's updates.
49:40 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, or like, okay, thank you.
49:43 Karen Kilgariff? No, thank you.
49:43 Georgia Hardstark? I need that.
49:44 Karen Kilgariff? I need it more than you.
49:45 Georgia Hardstark? You want it? What if you recap all my old stories? You're like, here's where you were wrong.
49:50 Karen Kilgariff? And another thing.
49:51 Georgia Hardstark? Actually? Remember how you speculated?
49:54 Karen Kilgariff? Well, you were wrong.
49:57 Georgia Hardstark? Wrong.
49:57 Karen Kilgariff? AI helped me write this.
50:02 Karen Kilgariff? You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium.
50:04 Georgia Hardstark? Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray?
50:07 Karen Kilgariff? Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals, powered by pure Epsom salt and natural Dead Sea salt, it's designed to help you relax and get in the right state of mind for a good night's rest.
50:17 Georgia Hardstark? If you need a reset after a crazy day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine. It's an effortless way to get a boost of topical magnesium that can help you relax your body and mind before bedtime.
50:28 Karen Kilgariff? Dr. Teal's magnesium spray comes in a lightweight, fast-drying formula.
50:32 Georgia Hardstark? Just shake it up and generously spritz onto the soles of your feet and massage until absorbed.
50:36 Karen Kilgariff? I was kind of blown away the first time I used this spray because I do have problems sleeping. And when there's something this simple, you just sprayed on your feet and suddenly you're asleep and the next morning you're like, wait, what happened? Did my problem just get solved? Like, it actually is that easy.
50:51 Georgia Hardstark? And your stinky feet now smell like lavender. Like, what more do you want?
50:54 Karen Kilgariff? How dare you call my feet stinky.
50:57 Georgia Hardstark? For wellness, you can feel find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle. Goodbye. The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+.
51:08 Karen Kilgariff? Sonny's life is pretty great, until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his, with one exception: his mom.
51:15 Georgia Hardstark? To everyone else, she's the same Ellen they've known their whole lives. But for Sonny, he knows something is off.
51:21 Karen Kilgariff? As his relationship with his mother begins to crack in unsettling ways, he's forced to question what happens when the perfect mom becomes a perfect stranger.
51:29 Georgia Hardstark? Is this all in his head or is there really an imposter in his house?
51:32 Karen Kilgariff? Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nivola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.
51:40 Georgia Hardstark? Watch the Hulu original series, Phony.
51:42 Karen Kilgariff? Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. Goodbye.
51:48 Speaker 03 Do you ever feel like your computer is tracking you? Well, it's not. It's your browser following you. But not if you come back to Firefox. Firefox blocks the trackers automatically, doesn't follow you from site to site, and supports the ad blockers other browsers dropped. Plus, you can switch AI on or off when its intelligence is acting too artificial. And switching? Totally painless. Your bookmarks, passwords, and browsing history come right with you. Come back to Firefox. Visit firefox.com.
52:18 Karen Kilgariff? Sometimes being a little salty is completely justified.
52:21 Georgia Hardstark? Pair your salty side with something sweet with the new Salted Caramel flavor from Kachava.
52:26 Karen Kilgariff? Kachava is a whole body shake with plant-based protein, fiber, greens, and other nutrients to help fill nutritional gaps.
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52:40 Karen Kilgariff? Their new Salty Caramel flavor combines sweet caramel with a little salt, so you get that salty-sweet balance along with the nutrition Kachava is known for.
52:48 Georgia Hardstark? When the day demands your salty side, fuel it with plant-based protein that actually tastes delicious.
52:52 Karen Kilgariff? I really do love Kachava, and I really do think it does taste delicious for getting you through the morning, filling in the gap if you just need some protein and you need some vitamins. It's such a nice little treat.
53:04 Georgia Hardstark? It's such an easy way to get everything you need, and it tastes good, too, which is just a huge bonus.
53:08 Karen Kilgariff? So embrace your salty side.
53:09 Georgia Hardstark? Go to kachava.com and use code MFM for 15% off your first order.
53:14 Karen Kilgariff? That's Kachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A dot com, code MFM. Goodbye.
53:28 Georgia Hardstark? Hi, everyone. Welcome to Honking Hoorays, presented by Hyundai.
53:32 Karen Kilgariff? That's right. It's our usual hooray segment, but we're doing it in a car because this is where we can really be ourselves.
53:38 Georgia Hardstark? Really?
53:38 Karen Kilgariff? Do you want me to go first?
53:39 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
53:39 Karen Kilgariff? Okay. This first one is from an email, and the subject line is, "Hooray: Law School Graduation. Submitting a hooray for the pod. I started listening to the podcast my junior year of high school, and next week is my last day of law school. The pod has been there through every final season, every mental health walk break, and every commute to class. It's been a long road, but in a few short months, I'll be an attorney. And if it hadn't been for this podcast back in high school piquing my interest in the justice system, what, at a very young age, who knows if I would have chosen this career path?
54:11 Georgia Hardstark? Holy moly.
54:12 Karen Kilgariff? Thanks for every great show and much-needed laugh. Now stay sexy and pass the bar exam, Megan."
54:18 Georgia Hardstark? I mean, flying colors, I'm sure.
54:20 Karen Kilgariff? Jeez.
54:20 Georgia Hardstark? That's amazing.
54:21 Karen Kilgariff? Great job, Megan. Congratulations.
54:23 Georgia Hardstark? Congratulations. This is from Instagram. "I have a hooray after living in a city that has..." whipped me left, right, up and down. I'm following my dream of leaving the country and moving to Berlin to Au Pair for a beautiful, sweet family.
54:36 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
54:37 Georgia Hardstark? Berlin. As an 18-year-old, three-year-long murderino, I love you guys and have had you in my ears through thick and thin. Thank you for everything you've done for our community and me, without even knowing. Smiley face, smiley face. EJ Murray.
54:51 Karen Kilgariff? EJ started listening when they were 15 years old.
54:54 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God. Precious.
54:57 Karen Kilgariff? Soft force.
54:58 Georgia Hardstark? Okay. This is from our email. It just says, "My hooray is that at the end of this month, me and my family are selling our house in the town I was born and raised in and leaving for a fresh start in a new state that my husband and I have always dreamed of living in. Let this serve as a reminder that it's never too late for a big change in life. Don't listen to the negativity you get from others and trust your gut. Do the things in life that make you happy. Sam." And it's just signed, "Sam, soon to be from Maine."
55:26 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, I love it.
55:28 Georgia Hardstark? Sam to Maine.
55:29 Karen Kilgariff? I know, right?
55:31 Georgia Hardstark? Sweet. Okay, this one says, "Hey, gang. Today was the last day at my job before heading off to medical school. Since graduating college, I've been working in endoscopy, where I assist in GI and pulmonary procedures using endoscopes."
55:49 Karen Kilgariff? Brag, brag.
55:50 Georgia Hardstark? "You ladies have accompanied me throughout my undergraduate career and this job, especially while I'm cleaning the scopes after procedures. LOL." We've been a lot of places.
56:01 Karen Kilgariff? Slow.
56:02 Georgia Hardstark? We've been lots of places. "I've learned so much about the importance of screening medicine and the value of kindness, compassion, and empathy in medical care. I bet. Medical school is the first step towards me achieving the ultimate dream of becoming an OB-GYN, where I will fight the good fight for women's reproductive rights from the inside out."
56:21 Karen Kilgariff? Amazing.
56:21 Georgia Hardstark? "Women deserve access to quality and comprehensive health care. Hooray for women in STEM and hooray for fighting fascism any way you can. Stay sexy and get your screening colonoscopy." Delaney K.
56:35 Karen Kilgariff? Delaney, so much good advice. So many good points made in that email. Great job. We're very proud of you.
56:41 Georgia Hardstark? We are.
56:41 Karen Kilgariff? Cleaning the endoscopy. What is it called? How do you say it?
56:45 Georgia Hardstark? Don't, don't repeat it.
56:48 Karen Kilgariff? The subject line of this is, "Hooray, I just adopted 20,000 beautiful babies." Okay, ready?
56:53 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
56:54 Karen Kilgariff? It just starts, "I got to fulfill a literal lifelong dream. Hooray, I started keeping bees."
57:01 Georgia Hardstark? That's my dream too!
57:03 Karen Kilgariff? "From the time I was a little larva myself, I've been fascinated by bees. I watched documentaries, I took classes, I even joined the local beekeeping guild." You should do that.
57:12 Georgia Hardstark? I should.
57:13 Karen Kilgariff? "But I was never able to acquire my own hive for one reason or another." You know how life is.
57:17 Georgia Hardstark? You know how hives go.
57:18 Karen Kilgariff? You just can't acquire a hive. "One night, after a colleague introduced me to his wife, she casually mentioned that she's a hobby beekeeper with too many hives."
57:27 Georgia Hardstark? I am disciplined in my life! I literally asked Vince for a bee hive for my birthday this year.
57:33 Karen Kilgariff? That poor man. He's like, "God, damn it."
57:36 Georgia Hardstark? He said he'll do what he can do.
57:38 Karen Kilgariff? He's like, "At least it's not another cat."
57:39 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
57:40 Karen Kilgariff? "Long story short, she and I have become friends." Like, friend with the hives. He's using her for her bees. "She is teaching me everything she knows about bees and has even given me my own little hive to look after. Helping these incredible little pollinators thrive brings me more joy than I can express in words." I feel, this is like a person who's found their niche in life. It's beautiful.
58:00 Georgia Hardstark? I love it.
58:01 Karen Kilgariff? "I feel totally at home in the bee yard, and I'm so..."
58:04 Georgia Hardstark? My god, I want that so bad! I'm like picturing it in my...
58:07 Karen Kilgariff? It's like your own area of the yard with just for bees. "And don't let the children run through there." "And I'm so grateful I have a new friend that was willing to share her knowledge with me. Hooray for drinking too many beers with colleagues and getting to live out your dream of becoming a bee babe. Thank you for everything you do. Heart, Kay."
58:26 Georgia Hardstark? Kay, I'm right behind you.
58:28 Karen Kilgariff? Bees! You've just inspired Georgia.
58:31 Georgia Hardstark? Bees! Bees! I have one more. Okay. "Hey guys, I'm so happy hoorays are back, and I'm even happier to say I have one of my own. I recently completed my first, and probably only, half marathon."
58:44 Karen Kilgariff? Ooh.
58:45 Georgia Hardstark? "I had planned for you to be in my ears the whole time as you got me through so many training runs, but of course, I lost my headphones right before the race."
58:52 Karen Kilgariff? Oh no!
58:53 Georgia Hardstark? Can you imagine?
58:54 Karen Kilgariff? God.
58:54 Georgia Hardstark? I quit! So I ended up doing the whole thing powered by sheer will, cheering, and people's footsteps and breathing.
59:01 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
59:02 Georgia Hardstark? It definitely sucked at times, but I did it. I had fun, hit the time I wanted, got to run a lap around the Indy 500 track.
59:09 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
59:09 Georgia Hardstark? And honestly, why not run a half marathon at 20 years old? When else am I gonna do it?
59:13 Karen Kilgariff? Hell, yeah, sister.
59:14 Georgia Hardstark? Not at 44.
59:15 Karen Kilgariff? Hate you.
59:16 Georgia Hardstark? Anyway. Anyway, thanks for being great. Hooray for doing hard things or just anything at this point.
59:24 Georgia Hardstark? This is DGM Reese.
59:26 Karen Kilgariff? Reese, congratulations on your 12 points, whatever miles.
59:30 Georgia Hardstark? I feel like the quiet part would be the hardest part for me.
59:32 Karen Kilgariff? That would be rough.
59:33 Georgia Hardstark? And the running.
59:34 Karen Kilgariff? That would be a real, there's no way.
59:37 Georgia Hardstark? No, just your thoughts.
59:38 Karen Kilgariff? It's still 12 miles.
59:40 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
59:40 Karen Kilgariff? But we're really proud of you.
59:41 Georgia Hardstark? We are.
59:42 Karen Kilgariff? And I think that's it for our honking praise. Thank you Hyundai for sponsoring this wonderful segment we're doing.
59:49 Georgia Hardstark? We appreciate you. Thanks for listening.
59:50 Karen Kilgariff? Stay sexy.
59:51 Georgia Hardstark? And don't get murdered.
59:52 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
59:53 Speaker 04 Elvis, do you want a cookie?
1:00:02 Karen Kilgariff? This has been an Exactly Right production.
1:00:04 Georgia Hardstark? Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.
1:00:07 Karen Kilgariff? Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
1:00:09 Georgia Hardstark? This episode was mixed by Leona Scolacci.
1:00:11 Karen Kilgariff? Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ally Elkin.
1:00:14 Georgia Hardstark? Email your hometowns to [email protected] .
1:00:17 Karen Kilgariff? Follow the show on Instagram at myfavoritemurder.
1:00:20 Georgia Hardstark? Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:00:25 Karen Kilgariff? And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page. While you're there, please like and subscribe.
1:00:30 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
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1:00:51 Georgia Hardstark? Say goodbye to endless scrolling and tab hopping and hello to Budget Beach Bliss at your fingertips.
1:00:57 Karen Kilgariff? Go to cheapcaribbean.com to try out the Budget Beach Finder and see just how stress-free vacation planning should be.
1:01:03 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye. You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium.
1:01:07 Karen Kilgariff? Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.
1:01:10 Georgia Hardstark? Made from a proprietary blend of- topical minerals, it's designed to relax and prepare you for a night of rest.
1:01:15 Karen Kilgariff? If you need a reset after your day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine.
1:01:20 Georgia Hardstark? generously spritz each foot before bed and you'll be all set. I've actually started doing this and I'm obsessed with magnesium. It does everything.
1:01:27 Karen Kilgariff? Something like this is just like, it's simple, it's easy, and it actually works.
1:01:30 Georgia Hardstark? Totally. For wellness you can feel, find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle.
1:01:36 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
1:01:37 Speaker 03 Do you ever feel like your computer is tracking you? Well, it's not. It's your browser following you. But not if you come back to Firefox. Firefox blocks the trackers automatically, doesn't follow you from site to site, and supports the ad blockers other browsers dropped. Plus, you can switch AI on or off when its intelligence is acting too artificial. And switching? Totally painless. Your bookmarks, passwords, and browsing history come right with you. Come back to Firefox. Visit Firefox.com.
Previous Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 58: Some Quiet Sunday Next MFM Minisode 450 Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated