468 - Just Start Screaming

This week, Georgia covers the murder of Fahim Saleh and Karen tells the story of the 2005 Wendy’s severed finger panic. For our sources and show notes, visit www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes http://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is exactly right.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Even if you're using prescription creams for your eczema, you still may be hearing this. That relentless itching that makes you want to scratch and scratch and scratch and scratch. When your moderate to severe eczema isn't well controlled, it's time to ask about Dupixent, Dupilumab. Dupixent helps block a key source of inflammation inside the body that can cause eczema, helping adults stay ahead of it with clearer skin and less itch. Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of new or worsening eye problems like eye pain

• 0:49Speaker 01

  or vision changes, skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor. Dupixent helps you feel the heal. See the difference for yourself. Talk to your eczema specialist. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 1:06Karen Kilgariff?

  This holiday season, celebrate the ones you know by heart with a gift that says it all.

• 1:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Because the best gifts don't just look beautiful, they mean something too.

• 1:14Karen Kilgariff?

  From engraveable pieces that tell your story to festive charms that capture special memories to stunning lab-grown diamonds, Pandora has meaningful jewelry for the people who inspire you and have been there through it all.

• 1:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Give a piece that says exactly what words can't.

• 1:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Pandora, more than a gift.

• 1:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Shop new styles in-store or online at pandora.net.

• 1:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 1:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Everyone loves the idea of spending an afternoon curled up with a good book.

• 1:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, grow up because it's almost impossible.

• 1:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Luckily, you can take your next great story with you on Audible.

• 1:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Audible has a massive selection of titles to choose from, including This American Life, new books by Michael Connelly, along with classics from Magathah Christie, and so much more.

• 1:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Whether you want a mystery, a true crime story, or something completely different, there's always something new to listen to.

• 1:58Karen Kilgariff?

  New members can start listening with a 30-day free trial at audible.com/mfm.

• 2:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Audible, stories that speak to you.

• 2:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 2:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Hello.

• 2:26Karen Kilgariff?

  And welcome.

• 2:26Georgia Hardstark?

  To my favorite murder.

• 2:28Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Georgia Hardstark.

• 2:29Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Karen Kilgariff.

• 2:30Karen Kilgariff?

  We say this every time.

• 2:31Georgia Hardstark?

  You guys should know this by now.

• 2:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Say it along with us, but put your name in. And both parts.

• 2:37Georgia Hardstark?

  I love that.

• 2:38Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Becky Milligan.

• 2:39Georgia Hardstark?

  And that is Clarissa Streeter.

• 2:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Knows it all.

• 2:43Georgia Hardstark?

  That's not a name.

• 2:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Teaches you all. What's the Clarissa show from?

• 2:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Clarissa Explains It All.

• 2:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Explains It All.

• 2:48Georgia Hardstark?

  I loved that show.

• 2:49Karen Kilgariff?

  I was too old.

• 2:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, you were. I was the right age for that.

• 2:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Did she explain it all to you?

• 2:54Georgia Hardstark?

  She explained it all to me. She had great fashion sense.

• 2:57Karen Kilgariff?

  And she really, what would she explain on a weekly basis? Like how it socially?

• 3:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, like moms are tough, but in the end, they like are have your back. Or like, it's tough when bullies or whatever, you know, it was like that kind of thing.

• 3:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 3:11Georgia Hardstark?

  But it wasn't like corny.

• 3:12Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 3:13Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like Daria kind of, where it's just like, cool. Want to hear something weird and creepy?

• 3:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh oh.

• 3:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Maybe a little sad?

• 3:19Karen Kilgariff?

  About me or you?

• 3:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Neither of us.

• 3:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, great.

• 3:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Just that happened to me.

• 3:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 3:23Georgia Hardstark?

  It's weird.

• 3:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, this counts as being about you.

• 3:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Okay. So when we got back from the fire after evacuating, we were home a couple of days. Everything was weird out, you know, like the sky was weird and there was ash everywhere. It was just like a creepy time. The city was like empty. And so I'm walking cookie on our lawn, our front lawn. And I look down a little further up, there's like a plastic bag on the ground on our lawn. And I like approach it and it looks kind of like just a baggie, like a Coke, like a big bag. You know, like someone had dropped like a brick of Coke.

• 3:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 3:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Half a brick.

• 4:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Sure.

• 4:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Not a ton. And just so you have an idea.

• 4:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Sure, sure.

• 4:05Georgia Hardstark?

  In today's, in today's money.

• 4:06Karen Kilgariff?

  A brick is not enough.

• 4:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. A brick's too much. It was like half a brick.

• 4:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Brick's too much.

• 4:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Half is not. Okay.

• 4:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So I approach it and I real, it's like messy and I realize it's cremains. Like it's clearly cremains of something. There's a sticker on it and there's teeth marks in it.

• 4:26Georgia Hardstark?

  And so what we figured out is that while these fires were raging, a coyote must have dug up some sweet person's sweet pet that passed away.

• 4:35Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 4:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Carried it to our house and left it on our lawn. So that was fuck. And this is during when the fires were happening. So everything is horrible.

• 4:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 4:44Georgia Hardstark?

  So that was like, it felt like an ominous sign.

• 4:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Absolutely.

• 4:47Georgia Hardstark?

  But you could, but I could kind of make out the like, the, the stuff on the sticker that was clearly from the place where the animal had been cremated.

• 4:55Karen Kilgariff?

  So you're positive it was an animal?

• 4:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, because the name was Frida. It just said Frida.

• 5:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Are you positive it's not a person?

• 5:03Georgia Hardstark?

  It says guardian animal aftercare on the sticker.

• 5:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry, I just needed the confirmation.

• 5:09Georgia Hardstark?

  And it looks really old. Like, so you can't make that out. So it looks like it's been buried for a while. And so I could kind of make out, this is me doing my fucking best sleuthing ever, by the way.

• 5:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Sure.

• 5:17Georgia Hardstark?

  I could kind of make out the name of the person. And so we called the place that with the animal, they called the place on the sticker.

• 5:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh huh.

• 5:25Georgia Hardstark?

  And they're like, we're so old school. We just have like files. It's probably from a long time ago. So we tried, we asked our neighbors, like, do you know this person's name? And they don't. So, and I just want to return it to them because like, if I came out, like, let's say I had buried one of my beloved pets in my yard and it was a fucking dug up. So they might not live there anymore, but I think I should give them, give it a new burial. Right?

• 5:48Karen Kilgariff?

  You could do that? That'd be really nice.

• 5:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Or you could take it in the middle of the night and throw it over someone else's fence.

• 5:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Let them have the fucking problem.

• 5:56Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm, there's options, I'm saying.

• 5:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. I mean, I have video of the coyotes playing in that area that night. So like, that didn't already happen. Thank God.

• 6:04Karen Kilgariff?

  You're positive someone didn't just throw it like that over a fence?

• 6:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Pretty sure.

• 6:08Karen Kilgariff?

  That's really disturbing.

• 6:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Isn't it?

• 6:10Karen Kilgariff?

  And quite something.

• 6:12Georgia Hardstark?

  I told, but, but it's also like, sweet in a weird way.

• 6:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I'm glad your coyote story is sweet because mine, they almost killed Blossom.

• 6:20Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 6:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Just recently, I feel like the coyotes are really under the gun.

• 6:25Georgia Hardstark?

  I saw one today in the street.

• 6:26Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, everybody got driven down because of the fires. Like, it is not good in terms of poor, you know, actual wild animals.

• 6:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 6:34Karen Kilgariff?

  But it's also not good in terms of little white terriers just trying to act like they're in charge of their domain. My dog Blossom at five in the morning needed to go out because she could hear the coyotes, and then she got bit. And it was crazy because this is the same blossom who survived a killer bee sting.

• 6:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, that's right.

• 6:54Karen Kilgariff?

  She has been up against it, this dog.

• 6:56Georgia Hardstark?

  She means, she's an indoor dog.

• 6:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. I think so. I think she's becoming convinced.

• 7:01Georgia Hardstark?

  It could have been, like, if she were a little smaller, they would have carried her off.

• 7:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Entirely.

• 7:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Fucking, thank God.

• 7:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, she makes this insane sound, which is what happened when my cousin Stevie's dog Betty attacked her. She makes a sound that scared everybody for like an hour.

• 7:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Like a scream?

• 7:17Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a scream, and then she gets away. So, she's kind of, I respect her.

• 7:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely. Just start screaming. That's, we've talked about it a lot of times.

• 7:26Karen Kilgariff?

  A lot.

• 7:26Georgia Hardstark?

  You can apologize for screaming. You can't apologize for having done nothing when you should have been screaming.

• 7:31Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. You really, you really landed on something there.

• 7:35Georgia Hardstark?

  So, I'm gonna rebury it. I'll, I'll let you know what happens. I'm gonna have like a little ceremony.

• 7:39Karen Kilgariff?

  In your own yard?

• 7:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 7:40Karen Kilgariff?

  That's nice.

• 7:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Just to like, since we can't find the person.

• 7:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Give Frida her final resting place.

• 7:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Sweet little Frida.

• 7:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Frida.

• 7:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Sounds like, like a Pomeranian name, doesn't it?

• 7:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it does. Or Shih Tzu.

• 7:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 7:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Frida just running that house. One of those dogs that runs the house, for sure.

• 7:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Bartering all day for no reason.

• 7:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Or she's like a real nice, kind of like one of those, like a Chow, German Shepherd mix.

• 8:04Georgia Hardstark?

  The fluffy one?

• 8:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, where she's kind of like fluffy and, God, this dog.

• 8:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Tiptoeing?

• 8:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Who is this dog?

• 8:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Maybe she's a Persian cat. We don't fucking know.

• 8:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's true. What if Frida's a boa constrictor?

• 8:17Georgia Hardstark?

  And we're like, oh, Frida's gonna be like, get that out of my fucking house now. So, she's been sitting, I walk by it every day. She's been sitting on my, like, lawn table.

• 8:25Karen Kilgariff?

  There's like, problem to be solved.

• 8:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, gotta do something about that.

• 8:30Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. So hard to lose a pet.

• 8:33Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. Sorry, that was.

• 8:35Karen Kilgariff?

  No, I mean, it's interesting. At least it's interesting. It's not me saying, yes, I'm still watching Seinfeld. Season eight, it just gets better and better every episode.

• 8:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Are you watching the show called Apple Cider Vinegar? It's on Netflix.

• 8:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Perfect. I can switch right over from Seinfeld. It's like, they'll be right next to each other.

• 8:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Love it.

• 8:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my god.

• 8:54Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a true story. It's a dramatization about a gal who just completely, one of those lied about having cancer on the internet and made a career out of like, her saving her own life through nutrition.

• 9:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 9:07Georgia Hardstark?

  And it was all a scam.

• 9:08Karen Kilgariff?

  But it is a true story?

• 9:09Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a true story.

• 9:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow, I have to watch that. Oh, my god. Those ones are my favorite because I do feel like, it's like Scamanda.

• 9:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 9:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Which if, listener, if you haven't listened to that podcast, please stop this one immediately and run over there. Because these stories of people like that are so, I could, all day long, I want to hear them. They're just like, how did you, you started off, you had a real threat to your life, it traumatized you in some way.

• 9:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 9:33Karen Kilgariff?

  And that, but then also something else happened to you.

• 9:36Georgia Hardstark?

  And the way they describe it, and this show does that, it's like, you kind of feel empathy. This girl's clearly like, does monstrous things, but you understand her initial motivations.

• 9:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 9:47Georgia Hardstark?

  And that's just what you need. But then, after that, it's just a whole fucking mess.

• 9:51Karen Kilgariff?

  I can't, I can't imagine what it feels like to have love just outpoured toward you when you say, I have this thing.

• 9:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. They show that. It's like, bananas.

• 9:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Ooh, apple cider vinegar.

• 10:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 10:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Check. I'm on that.

• 10:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Should we get to something upbeat and funny? Because

• 10:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 10:05Georgia Hardstark?

  We got some letters.

• 10:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 10:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Or emails, one would call them.

• 10:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, handwritten misses.

• 10:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Long handwritten, long form misses, about how I covered the Tenerife Airport disaster last week in episode 467, and we had all kinds of questions for pilots and airplane people, and so I guess we got some answers.

• 10:25Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm so frightened.

• 10:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, I'll go first.

• 10:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 10:27Georgia Hardstark?

  This is called, "I Promise Pilots Are Friendlier Than You Think." "Hello, all. I was listening to the latest episode when Georgia covered the Tenerife Airport disaster. It's a devastating case we all study extensively as pilots, and like George said, the air traffic phraseology has now been standardized to avoid such an accident from ever happening."

• 10:44Karen Kilgariff?

  It's great.

• 10:44Georgia Hardstark?

  That's good to know.

• 10:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 10:45Georgia Hardstark?

  But Karen, it says, "I promise we're far more patient than we seem." Because you said, what did you say?

• 10:53Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know, it's something like, I can't remember.

• 10:56Georgia Hardstark?

  You said, "I think pilots would have no patience for me."

• 10:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 10:59Georgia Hardstark?

  And like, that's right, right?

• 11:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, like, they're just so organized and calm and by the book and...

• 11:04Georgia Hardstark?

  They have next steps. They don't want to talk to you about your...

• 11:07Karen Kilgariff?

  My little stories.

• 11:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. I promise we're far more patient than we seem. We're not all engineers, and as much as we take our jobs very seriously and communication is kept to the essential during critical stages of flight, I've yet to meet a fellow pilot who wouldn't talk your ear off, given the opportunity.

• 11:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Ooh, neat.

• 11:23Georgia Hardstark?

  That's nice.

• 11:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 11:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Flying is an absolute privilege, and most of us are so humbled by the fact that we get to experience it, let alone do it for a living.

• 11:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 11:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, and then it says, "Only 6% of pilots worldwide are women. I've had the honor of being taught by some incredibly badass female pilots, and I am proud to have joined the ranking." "We always need more women in aviation and STEM in general. A little shout out to the young women listening. You can do anything. Show those boys how it's done."

• 11:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, yes.

• 11:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes. "Thank you for everything you do. You've kept me company during my many hours commuting to and from airports for training. Welcome, a welcome reprieve when I need to switch off learning mode SSDGM, N."

• 12:01Karen Kilgariff?

  And thank you.

• 12:02Georgia Hardstark?

  How great is that?

• 12:03Karen Kilgariff?

  And like, was like, "Okay, I'll get into this conversation with you and all young women."

• 12:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, and while I'm here...

• 12:09Karen Kilgariff?

  "Let me teach you a thing about..." which is very meaningful.

• 12:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 12:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Because that's a person, N, who is a constant handler of shit.

• 12:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 12:18Karen Kilgariff?

  May we all be.

• 12:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Up there with the greatest.

• 12:20Karen Kilgariff?

  All right, well, I have one too.

• 12:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 12:22Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know what it says.

• 12:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, let's see. Alejandro gave us both one to read to each other.

• 12:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly.

• 12:27Georgia Hardstark?

  With no instructions, so.

• 12:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Here's mine. The subject line is, "Can confirm, pilots have no patience for you, Karen." Then it says, "Light-hearted two-minute read."

• 12:36Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it.

• 12:36Karen Kilgariff?

  "Karen, on the last episode, 467, you said, 'I think a pilot would have no patience for my personality.'" Oh, there it is. There's the quote.

• 12:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Perfect.

• 12:44Karen Kilgariff?

  "And I can confirm, you're probably right, because I'm a Karen, and my dad, who was a pilot for 30 years, didn't put up with my bullshit either."

• 12:52Georgia Hardstark?

  It sounds like someone else's firefighter father named Jim.

• 12:56Karen Kilgariff?

  There's a lot of these dads out there and I'm glad we're finally talking about it.

• 12:59Georgia Hardstark?

  They're no bullshit dads.

• 13:01Karen Kilgariff?

  My dad, Captain Craig, flew for major domestic airlines before and after nine 11 and is a real hard ass in the best way. You'll be happy to know, Georgia, that pilots in general are very meticulous people and not willing to be rushed through procedure for anyone.

• 13:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Love it.

• 13:16Karen Kilgariff?

  For example, my dad does a walk around inspection of the car before he gets in, all caps, every single time.

• 13:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my god. My dad does the op, when he's leaving the car, he checks every door handle.

• 13:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Three or four times.

• 13:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Just lock it down.

• 13:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, dads, okay.

• 13:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Even when just leaving the grocery store after running a quick errand and has very rigid rules about safety. And then in quotes, like, talking, "This car's not moving until everyone has their seatbelts."

• 13:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep, 100%.

• 13:44Karen Kilgariff?

  As you can imagine, little teenage Karen, me, and Captain Craig didn't always get along so well, but now that I'm an adult and he isn't teaching me standard operating procedures for making my bed and debriefing me about Friday night parties, we have a great relationship.

• 13:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my god.

• 13:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Debriefing me about Friday night parties. He also makes me feel much calmer about flying. I frequently text him when I see scary plane stuff in the news, and he is the first to reassure me that flying is very safe and gives me the inside scoop on any positive changes happening in airline safety. Stay sexy and don't BS around pilots. Jana.

• 14:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Jana, can we get your dad's phone number so we can also text him when things happen?

• 14:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Could we start a segment with Captain Craig called Airmail? And he just, like, maybe every week sends us an email that says, "Hey, I listened to the last episode. This is what I would have done differently."

• 14:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. And like, "But here's also why you shouldn't worry and, like, everything's gonna be okay."

• 14:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 14:35Georgia Hardstark?

  I want reassurance, too.

• 14:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Not just about air flight or anything, just general Captain Craig stuff in the world.

• 14:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Debrief me and inform me.

• 14:43Karen Kilgariff?

  About, and let's have some Friday night parties.

• 14:45Georgia Hardstark?

  And call me down, and Anne will be there, too.

• 14:46Karen Kilgariff?

  And let's, of course, Anne is invited, as always. Anne was here first. That was amazing. That was great.

• 14:53Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it. You guys always write in when you have thoughts and feelings. We might not read them, but we appreciate it.

• 14:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Thanks, Alejandro. That was so good. All right. Should we talk about the network?

• 15:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, definitely.

• 15:02Karen Kilgariff?

  We have a podcast network. Did you know it's called Exactly Right Media and here's what's going on?

• 15:07Georgia Hardstark?

  This week on Bananas, Kurt and Scotty are joined by comedian Sasheer Zamata to talk about the world's most bizarre and hilarious news stories. She is so freaking funny.

• 15:16Karen Kilgariff?

  She's so cool. Over on this podcast, we'll kill you, Erin and Erin go on a deadly deep dive into the death cap mushroom.

• 15:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, God, they're good.

• 15:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, they're good.

• 15:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Speaking of toxic, Bridger welcomes actor and comedian Vinnie Thomas on I Said No Gifts.

• 15:30Karen Kilgariff?

  I had to say, that was just purely an Allison joke that I could not stop laughing at. Vinnie Thomas is one of the best comedians around. Of course, we love Bridger Weineger. Nobody's toxic.

• 15:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Nobody, but everybody. And despite Bridger's explicit instructions, Vinnie arrives with an unsolicited gift. See what happens next by listening to I Said No Gifts.

• 15:48Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. When you're done with that, you can go over to Rewind with Karen in Georgia. That's us.

• 15:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Hi.

• 15:52Karen Kilgariff?

  This week, we travel back to September 8th, 2016, recapping episode 33 called What About Mimi, where we covered the Jane Mixer case alongside the coed killer. And we also covered the unbelievable survival story of Jennifer Mori.

• 16:06Georgia Hardstark?

  So in honor of the Rewind episodes, we've stocked one of our most iconic T-shirts. It's one of our earliest, our good friend Kat Solan's T-shirt design. Here's the thing, fuck everyone.

• 16:18Karen Kilgariff?

  I meant to wear the sweatshirt because I stole one because it is my favorite design. And, but I couldn't find it because I think it's in the wash.

• 16:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no. It's available as a mug or crew neck sweatshirt. It's a great way to tell all the parents at Pickup what you really think. And it's inspired by episode number 28 of Rewind and Karen's telling of the Terry Jo Dupreau survival story.

• 16:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Incredible.

• 16:42Georgia Hardstark?

  So get that merch, myfavoritemurder.com.

• 16:44Karen Kilgariff?

  It's such a good little picture of a little blonde girl sitting on a raft by herself.

• 16:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Unbelievable. It's a total fanfare.

• 16:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Just the greatest.

• 16:53Georgia Hardstark?

  The holidays are coming, which means we'll all be spending more time away from home.

• 16:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Whether you're visiting family or doing something actually fun, you want to know your home is protected while you're away.

• 17:02Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why now is a good time to think about home security with SimpliSafe.

• 17:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Unlike traditional security systems that alert you after a break-in starts, SimpliSafe is designed to help stop intruders before they get inside. These days, you're worried about your house, you're out of town, and then something comes up and you get to look on your phone and SimpliSafe is going to show you not only the video of like, it's a raccoon at your front door, but also that they have staff that's sitting there, they already know. And if it was something different or worse, they would have already been on it.

• 17:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I really think that's invaluable peace of mind that just like relying on your neighbors, paying attention is not going to give you. We've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer our listeners their biggest savings of the year, 70% off your new system with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/mfm.

• 17:48Karen Kilgariff?

  That's simplisafe.com/mfm. And when you order, write in MFM at checkout and it tells them we sent you and it really helps the show.

• 17:56Georgia Hardstark?

  SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time.

• 17:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.

• 18:05Georgia Hardstark?

  You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next, and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork and trying to figure out who to call.

• 18:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows patients spend the equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month coordinating their own care.

• 18:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.

• 18:24Karen Kilgariff?

  That's why there's Solus Health.

• 18:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Solus provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience and can help you get answers fast.

• 18:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle the logistics while you focus on your health.

• 18:37Georgia Hardstark?

  They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options, and understanding doctor recommendations.

• 18:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.

• 18:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocacy improves outcomes and Solus advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.

• 18:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Eligibility varies by insurance plan.

• 18:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice or services must be 18 years or older.

• 19:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to solushealth.com/mfm. Murder to see if you qualify.

• 19:04Georgia Hardstark?

  It takes about two minutes and it's covered by insurance.

• 19:06Karen Kilgariff?

  That's S O L A C E health dot com slash murder.

• 19:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 19:11Karen Kilgariff?

  You know a favorite M word? Magnesium.

• 19:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.

• 19:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals powered by pure Epsom salt and natural dead sea salt, it's designed to help you relax and get in the right state of mind for a good night's rest.

• 19:27Georgia Hardstark?

  If you need a reset after a crazy day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine. It's an effortless way to get a boost of topical magnesium that can help you relax your body and mind before bedtime.

• 19:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Dr. Teal's magnesium spray comes in a lightweight, fast drying formula.

• 19:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Just shake it up and generously spritz onto the soles of your feet and massage until absorbed.

• 19:46Karen Kilgariff?

  I was kind of blown away the first time I used this spray because I do have problems sleeping and when there's something this simple, you just spray it on your feet and suddenly you're asleep and the next morning you're like, wait, what happened? Did my problem just get solved? Like, it actually is that easy.

• 20:01Georgia Hardstark?

  And your stinky feet now smell like lavender. Like, what more do you want?

• 20:04Karen Kilgariff?

  How dare you call my feet stinky?

• 20:07Georgia Hardstark?

  For wellness, you can feel fine Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle. Goodbye.

• 20:15Karen Kilgariff?

  All right, you go first this week.

• 20:16Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, I'll go first this week. Okay, this is just one of those awful stories that we hear all the time. It's one of those unfair stories about someone doing a bad thing and then instead of taking responsibility for it, doubling down and trying to evade that problem via murder. Like Selena's story that we told on Rewind recently.

• 20:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 20:36Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 20:37Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the eternal human problem. Everybody does it. It's not to the person. It is a human condition of the shame you feel when you do a bad thing or a wrong thing. So you're like, I can't feel this shame anymore. So what I'm going to do is give somebody else this shame.

• 20:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 20:54Karen Kilgariff?

  And that'll work.

• 20:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 20:56Karen Kilgariff?

  The problem is it never does.

• 20:57Georgia Hardstark?

  It doesn't. So today's story is about a murder that rocked New York City right in the middle of the summer of 2020. Remember that? When everyone was still reeling from the early days of COVID. So I don't remember this because I think that there was just so much going on in the news. The main sources for this story are reporting in The New York Times and a really beautiful tribute to the victim written by his sister, Ruby Saleh. The rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. So it's July 14th, 2020, and we're in the Lower East Side of New York City, which, as you know, these days is cool. It's a desirable, high-end neighborhood. A 30-year-old woman is riding the elevator up to her cousin's apartment. Her family had asked her to check on him since they hadn't been able to get in touch with him. Always bad.

• 21:42Georgia Hardstark?

  The cousin that she's going to check on is named Fahim Saleh, and he's 33 years old. Fahim is an entrepreneur and has found really great success with several startups. You know this one? The most recent is a motorcycle delivery app that's widely used in Nigeria. He was born in 1986 in Saudi Arabia, where his father was a professor at the time. The family is originally from Bangladesh. Then they moved to America when Fahim was four years old. And then it's the classic struggling financially for years while Fahim's father finished his PhD so he could make like a life for his children. That classic immigrant story, wanted a better education, better opportunities for their children.

• 22:26Georgia Hardstark?

  And the lengths and struggles they go to achieve that. So Fahim is a born engineer and is always tinkering with things from an early age. He's one of those kids. My brother was totally like, you get a clock and you take it apart immediately to see how it works and then you put it back together. Yeah. I was not one of those kids. Me either. He learns to code and begins launching little tech startups in his teens. Wow. The first one is called Monkey Do, and it's, quote, "Jokes, pranks, fake poop, fart spray, and more for teenagers."

• 22:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Wait, for sale?

• 23:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. It's the, it's, yeah.

• 23:03Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a prank store online.

• 23:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 23:05Karen Kilgariff?

  That's, okay, can I just say that the magic shop, it was a magic and pet shop in my hometown.

• 23:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 23:11Karen Kilgariff?

  The pet stop and they sold-

• 23:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Magic and pets?

• 23:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Magic and pets and they sold all that stuff in there. So there was like birds and nothing. I think the guy had a monkey for a little while.

• 23:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 23:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Adrian, Adrian and my sister and I talk about the monkey a lot because it was, yeah. But, and that, but then basically during their like late seventies, early eighties, they need to kind of expand.

• 23:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 23:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Like they're not making their, all their money on selling like a lizard once a week.

• 23:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 23:35Karen Kilgariff?

  And so they start getting, remember those rubber masks that like you could get a Reagan mask?

• 23:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 23:39Karen Kilgariff?

  And they're very lifelike.

• 23:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 23:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Like they just started all these rubber masks.

• 23:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Pranks and jokes.

• 23:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Pranks and the gum and my next door neighbor was a real trickster, 12 year old.

• 23:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 23:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And so he was always like, would you like a piece of gum you've never seen the brand of?

• 23:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 23:53Karen Kilgariff?

  And so that is like, I just love that because that is that age and that like, what's, what's necessary right now? A stink bomb.

• 24:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. What do I want to create and make for other people? This is exactly it.

• 24:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Garlic gum.

• 24:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And this, and then it does, it's a really good indication of his personality because this is exactly what he's like. He's bright and funny. He's carefree. He's curious.

• 24:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Smart, obviously.

• 24:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Very smart, obviously.

• 24:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 24:17Georgia Hardstark?

  And the website performs really well and he actually monetizes it with ads. And this is when he's 13. So this is like the late nineties when shit like this, we didn't, no one knew to do stuff like this yet.

• 24:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 24:27Georgia Hardstark?

  And a 13 year old is coding himself. Like I think his parents were freaked out when he got his first check and they're like, what is this from? And then he like showed them and they're like, alright.

• 24:36Karen Kilgariff?

  My business?

• 24:37Georgia Hardstark?

  My business.

• 24:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Welcome.

• 24:38Georgia Hardstark?

  At 13, yeah. So amazingly Fahim makes enough money through these kinds of ventures to put himself through college.

• 24:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 24:45Georgia Hardstark?

  So that American dream his parents had paid off.

• 24:47Karen Kilgariff?

  It's already happening in the house. Yeah.

• 24:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. After college, he finds more success in the prank space with a playful website for generating prank calls. So clearly he's, he likes to have fun.

• 24:58Karen Kilgariff?

  But also like find, tapping into a niche where it's like, what are me and all my friends truly passionate about? Tricking people.

• 25:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Prank calls, tricking. Like it is that thing of like find a need and fill it.

• 25:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 25:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. So he did that.

• 25:10Karen Kilgariff?

  So good.

• 25:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Fahim takes the money he earns from this venture. He wants to now steer away as getting a little older from the prank world into more serious ventures. So then he completely pivots and does a 180. Now he's like, look, I want to give other people the opportunity that my parents gave me by moving to the US and getting an education. I want to give that to other people. He just completely pivots from this prank world into becoming this altruistic person. Yeah. He wants to give other people the opportunity that his parents gave him. And so he finds enormous success with a ride app based in Bangladesh. And then with an app called Gokana, which is a Nigerian motorcycle delivery app. And it gives people in Nigeria and all these people so many opportunities that they didn't have. Hmm.

• 25:55Georgia Hardstark?

  His company later stated, quote, "He believed young Nigerians are extremely bright and talented individuals who would flourish if just given the right opportunity." Hmm. So the Saleh family is just obviously bursting with pride over Fahim. And he's known to be particularly kind and generous. So he's 33 years old and he's close to his family. He had recently gotten his new grown up apartment in the Lower East Side. He's also recently gotten a dog, which is a Pomsky named Leila, who he adores. Just looks like a little husky. It's so cute. And there's photos of him with the dog, like smiling. He's just this beautiful, bright smile, open face, kind eyes. He's just this clearly beautiful person.

• 26:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Still, despite being an adult, Fahim's father checks in with him every day to make sure he's remembering to eat because like people like my brother, who are obsessed with computers and tinkering, they'll just work through the night and won't forget to eat. Like my mom used to have to take my brother's keyboard, computer keyboard with her to work in the morning so my brother would go to school. This is like elementary school. So Fahim's apartment is in a small luxury condo building with only seven units. There's no doorman and there's only one apartment on each floor. And it's the kind where the elevator opens to the apartment instead of like a hallway. Yeah. And you need a key to select your particular floor in the elevator. So when Fahim's cousin gets off the elevator in his apartment and takes a few steps in, she makes just the absolute most horrific discovery you can imagine.

• 27:24Karen Kilgariff?

  This story is so awful. And I definitely remember reading about it during quarantine and having it be that kind of very surreal and very kind of isolated experience of like taking it all in and just awful.

• 27:39Georgia Hardstark?

  And the headlines that they used were particularly horrible. And that's one of the things his sister says in this tribute she wrote for him online. You can read it online that these like, she's flying across country to like identify her brother and these like grisly headlines are all she sees on her computer.

• 27:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Was it New York Post?

• 27:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Of course.

• 27:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 27:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Because the cousin finds Fahim's torso on his living room floor as she walks in. She flees the apartment, calls the police, and when they arrive, the police find Fahim's head and limbs in a garbage bag. They also find an electric saw still plugged into the wall and they find cleaning supplies. And it looks like the scene has already been significantly cleaned up, but it looks like someone's in the middle of cleaning up the scene.

• 28:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm hmm.

• 28:23Georgia Hardstark?

  So Fahim's family is very close knit and they're absolutely, obviously destroyed by this news. And this is the summer of 2020, so because of COVID restrictions, Ruby has to identify Fahim's body from a picture. And she just didn't want her parents to have to do it, so she agrees. And she writes, quote, "I began to caress his face on the computer screen with my index finger as tears poured down my cheeks. I just wanted to tell him, I'm so sorry Fahim. I'm so sorry Fahim, my poor sweet brother, my heart." The medical examiner finds that Fahim's cause of death was from multiple stab wounds to the neck and torso. Again, Fahim's building has no doorman, but there are security cameras in all the common areas. So when the police look back at this footage, they see Fahim returning to the building

• 29:08Georgia Hardstark?

  on July 12th after going out for a run. And then a man in a black suit, wearing a black N95 mask and black gloves, who appears to be already inside the building when Fahim walks in, follows him into the elevator. And when the elevator doors open into Fahim's apartment, the man in the suit uses a taser to subdue him and then drags him into the apartment. At first, at least one police source tells the press, he believes this to be a hired hitman. They believe that this person was still in the process of trying to get Fahim's body out of the apartment the next day when his cousin came over to check on him. But the impression that this was the work of a professional quickly changes when police realize that shortly after the murder, the killer had used one of Fahim's credit cards

• 29:53Georgia Hardstark?

  to take an Uber to a nearby Home Depot to buy extra cleaning supplies. Surveillance video from the elevator shows the man coming back to the apartment with his equipment on July 14th, the day Fahim's cousin would later come by. The footage shows him vacuuming inside the elevator, and I didn't know this, but he was vacuuming inside the elevator because there's a chip that's deployed when a taser goes off that identifies the taser.

• 30:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 30:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Like a little chip. Did you know that?

• 30:21Karen Kilgariff?

  No, I did not.

• 30:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Isn't that wild?

• 30:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 30:22Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, that makes sense, right? It's like, it's a weapon.

• 30:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Someone needs to go, be able to go and find like,

• 30:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 30:29Karen Kilgariff?

  what, where it was, where it happened.

• 30:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 30:31Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a weapon.

• 30:32Georgia Hardstark?

  It's pretty brilliant. And after the vacuuming, he disappears into Fahim's apartment to begin cleaning the scene and dismembering the body. And then while he's doing this, it turns out that the battery in the saw runs out. And that's why the murderer left to get a new, to go to Home Depot to get a new battery. And I, by the grace of God, somehow this is the point that Fahim's cousin comes into the apartment to check on him. Because what would have happened if she had come in?

• 31:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Any sooner.

• 31:00Georgia Hardstark?

  And if that battery hadn't died? You know? I mean, it's like, it's a horrible situation, but you know, to look at one positive thing, that that didn't happen.

• 31:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, thank God.

• 31:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So then police learn something that quickly makes the whole investigation fall into place. They figure out that Fahim's former assistant, a 25-year-old named Tyrese Hasbill, had resigned the previous year. He did so right before Fahim realized that Tyrese had stolen $35,000 from him by setting up a bogus company and embezzling funds through payments to that fake company. Tyrese had originally been hired to keep Fahim's personal finances in order. So he had access to all this information. And after learning about the theft, Fahim confronted him and then actually declined to press charges and said he wanted to work out a repayment plan with Tyrese. That was the kind of person he was.

• 31:55Georgia Hardstark?

  He was very generous and he was willing to like work with him.

• 31:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 32:00Georgia Hardstark?

  So he wouldn't get in trouble.

• 32:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, he probably knew him as a friend.

• 32:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 32:03Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, that's a very close relationship.

• 32:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. What Fahim didn't realize, or what he was possibly about to find out in July of 2020, was that Tyrese had actually continued stealing from him in a separate scheme even after he didn't work for him any longer. In fact, Tyrese repaid Fahim with Fahim's own stolen money from the second scheme.

• 32:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 32:26Georgia Hardstark?

  This one involved fake PayPal charges. Tyrese had actually stolen an additional 400,000 from Fahim.

• 32:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 32:36Georgia Hardstark?

  So in 2020, Tyrese had been becoming afraid that Fahim was about to discover that additional theft, which was obviously much larger and probably was going to get him in, you know, legal trouble, and had been plotting for months to kill him to prevent getting caught. They find that he had made two other attempts in the recent past to kill Fahim.

• 32:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Whoa.

• 32:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. But he like, he didn't go through with them, not that like he would have noticed. Once the police uncovered these two schemes, they realized Tyrese is the man from the surveillance videos and he's arrested on July 17th. So just a couple, they, they went after that quick.

• 33:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 33:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Just a couple of days later, he's arrested at an Airbnb in Soho, which is about 10 blocks from Fahim's apartment. And according to the New York DA, Tyrese had started working on the plot that he went through with about a month in advance. In June of 2020, he bought contractor bags, a Swiffer mop, and the battery-operated saw. He also contacted a real estate broker, asking to tour a vacant apartment across the street from Fahim's. And somehow he was able to make a copy of the key to that apartment and installed a Nest camera so he could track Fahim's movements from across the street in the apartment.

• 33:45Karen Kilgariff?

  That seems really advanced.

• 33:47Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 33:47Karen Kilgariff?

  In terms of that, this kind of planning, it's clearly not a crime of passion.

• 33:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 33:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Clearly not somebody like you snapped because someone was so awful to you.

• 33:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 33:57Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just like very methodical.

• 33:58Georgia Hardstark?

  But also not a professional killer. So it's also very, more methodical than you'd think it would be.

• 34:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 34:05Georgia Hardstark?

  So then on July 13th, Tyrese followed another resident into Fahim's building at 8:30 a.m. and hid in the package room, waiting for Fahim to leave and then return from his run. So after the murder, he took an Uber to Jersey City, getting rid of some of the evidence in trashcans there. And he returned the next day to finish cleaning up the apartment and to dispose of Fahim's body. And that's when he ran out of the battery for the saw. So he, when he came back from getting the battery, he saw the police outside the apartment and fled. And then he went, and then he went through that night with lavish plans he had made for his girlfriend's birthday party that he was throwing.

• 34:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 34:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Like just pivoted and went through a party.

• 34:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 34:43Georgia Hardstark?

  She didn't know what was going on.

• 34:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry, doesn't it just, just thinking about it now, because that happens so often, where it's like the crime scene's there and then the killer comes back for whatever reason?

• 34:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 34:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Doesn't it feel like, well, the police are still there, having discovered a crime scene, that they should be posting people like a block and two blocks away to be tracking every single person that comes and immediately goes away?

• 35:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Or not like, or just to have a stakeout and not immediately like, psh, fly in?

• 35:10Karen Kilgariff?

  The Nest camera up in the old Airbnb.

• 35:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. No, that's a really good point.

• 35:13Karen Kilgariff?

  It just, or should be in the future because it seems like this is a thing that happens.

• 35:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Definitely. Yeah, that's a really good point. So Tyrese is charged with first degree murder, grand larceny, and burglary, among other charges. He's found guilty on all charges in June of 2024. And in September of 2024, this past September, he's sentenced to at least 40 years in prison. Fahim's family are, of course, still absolutely devastated by the loss of their son and brother. Fahim's sister, in her tribute, writes that, quote, "Sometimes it still doesn't feel real that Fahim is gone. And sometimes it feels too precisely like the cruel, heinous, and unbearable reality that it is, letting me see nothing but darkness and feel nothing but piercing pain in every quadrant of my heart." End quote. And that is the story of

• 36:01Georgia Hardstark?

  the senseless, greed-fueled murder of Fahim Saleh, a self-made, brilliant, kind, and forgiving young man whose family will never be the same.

• 36:11Karen Kilgariff?

  God.

• 36:12Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 36:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, I only knew about that story up until a point because you're right. When it broke, it was like this awful thing. And then it was like, and then here's another bigger, scarier.

• 36:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 36:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Awful thing. And yeah.

• 36:27Georgia Hardstark?

  And it was such a quick turnaround, too. It's like they got him immediately and then it was just waiting for the trial.

• 36:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Good job.

• 36:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 36:35Karen Kilgariff?

  That was, that was really good.

• 36:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. The holidays are coming, which means we'll all be spending more time away from home.

• 36:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Whether you're visiting family or doing something actually fun, you want to know your home is protected while you're away.

• 36:48Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why now is a good time to think about home security with SimpliSafe.

• 36:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Unlike traditional security systems that alert you after a break in starts, SimpliSafe is designed to help stop intruders before they get inside. These days, you're worried about your house, you're out of town, and then something comes up and you get to look on your phone. And SimpliSafe is going to show you not only the video of like, it's a raccoon at your front door, but also that they have staff that's sitting there, they already know. And if it was something different or worse, they would have already been on it.

• 37:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I really think that's invaluable peace of mind that just like relying on your neighbors, paying attention is not going to give you. We've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer our listeners their biggest savings of the year, 70% off your new system with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/mfm.

• 37:34Karen Kilgariff?

  That's simplisafe.com/mfm. And when you order, write in MFM at checkout and it tells them we sent you and it really helps the show.

• 37:42Georgia Hardstark?

  SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time. Goodbye.

• 37:46Karen Kilgariff?

  We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.

• 37:50Georgia Hardstark?

  You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork and trying to figure out who to call.

• 37:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows patients spend the equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month coordinating their own care.

• 38:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.

• 38:09Karen Kilgariff?

  That's why there's Solace Health.

• 38:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Solace provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience and can help you get answers fast.

• 38:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle it. Handle the logistics while you focus on your health.

• 38:23Georgia Hardstark?

  They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options, and understanding doctor recommendations.

• 38:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.

• 38:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocacy improves outcomes, and Solace advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.

• 38:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Eligibility varies by insurance plan.

• 38:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice, or services must be 18 years or older.

• 38:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to solacehealth.com/murder to see if you qualify.

• 38:49Georgia Hardstark?

  It takes about two minutes, and it's covered by insurance.

• 38:52Karen Kilgariff?

  That's S-O-L-A-C-E health.com/murder.

• 38:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 38:57Karen Kilgariff?

  You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium.

• 39:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.

• 39:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals powered by pure Epsom salt and natural Dead Sea salt, it's designed to help you relax and get in the right state of mind for a good night's rest.

• 39:12Georgia Hardstark?

  If you need a reset after a crazy day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine. It's an effortless way to get a boost of topical magnesium that can help you relax your body and mind before bedtime.

• 39:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Dr. Teal's magnesium spray comes in a lightweight, fast drying formula.

• 39:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Just shake it up and generously spritz onto the soles of your feet and massage until absorbed.

• 39:32Karen Kilgariff?

  I was kind of blown away the first time I used this spray because I do have problems sleeping, and when there's something this simple, you just spray it on your feet, and suddenly you're asleep, and the next morning you're like, wait, what happened? Did my problem just get solved? Like, it actually is that easy.

• 39:47Georgia Hardstark?

  And your stinky feet now smell like lavender. Like, what more do you want?

• 39:50Karen Kilgariff?

  How dare you call my feet stinky?

• 39:52Georgia Hardstark?

  For wellness, you can feel find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle.

• 39:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 40:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I'm going to tell a horrible story as well.

• 40:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 40:06Karen Kilgariff?

  This is how we do it. But mine is definitely very, very different than yours.

• 40:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 40:11Karen Kilgariff?

  And also, you might remember, it's from 2005, and it was a bit of a cultural moment, at least in Northern California where I was. You couldn't get away from this story for a little while. And recently, our writer, Allison Agosti, reminded me of it, and she sent me this article that basically, we'll talk about at the end, that started this where I was like, oh, I have to cover this. I completely forgot about it.

• 40:37Georgia Hardstark?

  What is it?

• 40:38Karen Kilgariff?

  So it's March 22, 2005.

• 40:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 40:41Karen Kilgariff?

  And I'm just gonna set the scene for you.

• 40:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Please.

• 40:43Karen Kilgariff?

  President George W. Bush is waging war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

• 40:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 40:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Martha Stewart has just completed her prison sentence for insider trading. And the Hilary Swank boxing movie, Million Dollar Baby, wins Best Picture at the Academy Awards.

• 40:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 40:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Just put yourself back there.

• 40:58Georgia Hardstark?

  What a year. I had the tiniest bangs you've ever seen.

• 41:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I mean.

• 41:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Just little, tiny bangs.

• 41:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I think I was at a baby bang's face, only because I had stopped drinking. Meanwhile, over in San Jose, California, something very gruesome is unfolding. It's just before 7:30 PM, and a woman is seated in the dining room at a Wendy's, ready to enjoy some of their fresh, hot chili for dinner. She picks up her spoon, dips it into the bowl, and then takes what will be the most consequential bite of food in her entire life. As she begins to chew her mouthful of chili, she describes feeling something, quote, crunchy in her mouth. It just feels off, so she spits the item out to inspect it. That so-called crunchy item in her chili appears to be a human fingertip.

• 41:47Georgia Hardstark?

  No!

• 41:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 41:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Tip or nail?

• 41:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Tip.

• 41:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Hold the entire tip?

• 41:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Basically, the finger is what we will be calling it from now on in this story.

• 41:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 41:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Not just one of those, oh, I cut the top of my finger off with a knife and it's bleeding, but it's still my finger. It's the top of a finger.

• 42:05Georgia Hardstark?

  No. Oh, my god.

• 42:08Karen Kilgariff?

  These are the very first moments in what will soon become a national media sensation and a costly PR crisis for one of America's biggest fast-food chains. This is the story of the Wendy's Severed Finger Event of 2005.

• 42:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my god. It's not ringing a bell yet.

• 42:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Really? Okay.

• 42:26Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 42:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Amazing. Okay. So the sources Marin used to research the story today are a Snopes article by writer David Mickelson and several articles from the Associated Press and from the San Francisco Chronicle, most of which were published in 2005. And the rest of our sources are listed in our show notes if you want to go see and read. Okay, so Wendy's San Jose, 2005, 7:30 PM. A woman just spits out a fingertip and is quite understandably freaking out. She starts telling the other diners to stop eating their food as she shows off the small finger. It's about an inch long. It does have a fingernail on one end.

• 43:10Georgia Hardstark?

  I love her type. That's not just like, oh my god. She just starts fucking screaming about it.

• 43:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Stop eating, stop eating right now.

• 43:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Good for her.

• 43:16Karen Kilgariff?

  And then she rushes up to the restaurant's employees to tell them what's happened. And as she does, as the San Jose Mercury News later reports, at least three people in the dining room become physically ill.

• 43:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 43:28Karen Kilgariff?

  So you're sitting there eating and then someone's like, holy shit, there's a finger in my chili.

• 43:32Georgia Hardstark?

  And like, that's probably the first time most of them had ever seen a severed finger before.

• 43:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Absolutely.

• 43:37Georgia Hardstark?

  You gotta hope.

• 43:38Karen Kilgariff?

  You're, yeah, for sure. Yeah, you're, I didn't think about that at all. You're connecting all these things and then you're just like, and I have just taken a bite of whatever.

• 43:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. This is horrific and I love it.

• 43:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, good. But some of the Wendy's employees seem to be in disbelief. One patron will later tell the Mercury News, quote, "They told us it was a vegetable. The people from Wendy's were poking at it with a spoon."

• 44:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 44:00Karen Kilgariff?

  End quote. But I mean, what are they supposed to do?

• 44:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 44:03Karen Kilgariff?

  This is wild. This is like, what, how are you even saying that this is real? There's no way this is real.

• 44:08Georgia Hardstark?

  I guess it could be hominy if you look really blurry, if you don't have your glasses on.

• 44:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Hominy doesn't have a fingernail on it.

• 44:14Georgia Hardstark?

  That's very true.

• 44:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, as far as I know. I shouldn't just say that kind of stuff. I love to.

• 44:19Georgia Hardstark?

  You really should fact check.

• 44:20Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm going to someday. Okay, so it's very understandable why these employees are questioning what's going on. They're, they are the ones that made the chili. They made it at 2:00 PM in the restaurant, or they assembled it. I made is probably generous, but I'm not exactly sure. But they make it there as usual, every day. So no one on the staff was involved in any accidents. No one lost a fingertip. It doesn't make sense that something that shocking is found in the chili from their restaurant. But not everyone was in denial. Someone in that restaurant called the police and the police arrive alongside officials from the Santa Clara County Health Department led by a health officer named Dr. Marty Fenstershabe.

• 45:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Dr. Fenstershabe at 7:30 on a weeknight, he's at home.

• 45:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Ring, ring, ring.

• 45:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Real boring, getting ready for bed.

• 45:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Crossword puzzle.

• 45:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, no, like, his life isn't that exciting.

• 45:11Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 45:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Then the fucking call of a lifetime comes in.

• 45:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep, and he like puts on his half glasses.

• 45:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 45:17Karen Kilgariff?

  And he says, I've got a feeling that they need my services.

• 45:20Georgia Hardstark?

  His wife puts his cape on, his children kiss him goodbye.

• 45:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Dr. Marty Fenstershabe is about to roll. So at his command, the fingertip is quickly wrapped up in damp cloth and sent off to the medical examiner's office, who is now tasked with determining whether or not it is indeed a human body part. Next, Dr. Fenstershabe shuts down the restaurant until he and his officers can figure out what in the living hell is going on.

• 45:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Great.

• 45:47Karen Kilgariff?

  The prepared chili that's on site, which had been made at 2 o'clock that afternoon, as I said, is hauled off for inspection, as are all the ingredients that the restaurant has on hand to prepare any new batches of chili, right? So they just take all the chili fixins, which you know are a plastic bag.

• 46:02Georgia Hardstark?

  It's just, I was just gonna say that, like, they don't chop them in fucking dice. That shit's just going from a bag to a heating thing, right?

• 46:09Karen Kilgariff?

  I can't say for sure. I really wish I could call my friend Erica Sobel, who I went to high school with, and she worked at Wendy's.

• 46:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Great.

• 46:15Karen Kilgariff?

  For years, and she listens to this podcast. Erica, text me, please, if you know anything about the preparation for the Wendy's chili. I should have thought of that.

• 46:23Georgia Hardstark?

  You know that people, that people listening right now are going to write in and tell us about their fast food, my god, send us your fast food experiences.

• 46:30Karen Kilgariff?

  God, please.

• 46:30Georgia Hardstark?

  The grossest ones.

• 46:31Karen Kilgariff?

  But especially Wendy's employees.

• 46:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 46:33Karen Kilgariff?

  We want to hear from you in any way you would like to share with us.

• 46:35Georgia Hardstark?

  My favorite murder at Gmail.

• 46:37Karen Kilgariff?

  But I have to say this, well, you'll see, I won't give anything away right now, but, so it doesn't take long for Dr. Fenstershabe and his team to figure out that finger was in fact not severed in the restaurant. None of the employees show any signs of trauma or bleeding, and they don't find any other health or safety issues in that kitchen. Instead, the situation seems contained to that one diner's cup of chili and presumably the larger batch that that cup came from.

• 47:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure. She's the luckiest woman in the world or the least unlucky woman in the world.

• 47:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, exactly. So a few hours later, this Wendy's is given an okay to reopen. Right?

• 47:17Georgia Hardstark?

  No, thank you.

• 47:18Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean.

• 47:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Give it a night. Close it for the night.

• 47:21Karen Kilgariff?

  And then later that night, the local news reports on this story, but it's not given hardly any airtime at all, and they end it by saying the report is unconfirmed. So it's basically just, word is that.

• 47:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 47:33Karen Kilgariff?

  But the next day, the medical examiner confirms what everyone was dreading. The object in the chili is not a vegetable or a prop of any kind. It is a human fingertip. And when that information is sent to the health officer, Dr. Fenstershabe, he is the unenviable task of informing the public. Because when the finger was discovered, they made the chili at 2. The finger was discovered at 7:30. That means countless customers could have purchased and eaten from the same batch of chili.

• 48:04Georgia Hardstark?

  No one's ever eating chili again in that town.

• 48:06Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, it was truly, that is what happened for a while in Northern California.

• 48:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 48:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Because it was just the imprint of it on everyone's mind.

• 48:16Georgia Hardstark?

  That's so gross.

• 48:16Karen Kilgariff?

  It is the thing of like, it doesn't, it's like, once the story hits, it kind of doesn't matter whether or not it's true.

• 48:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely.

• 48:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Kind of like gossip.

• 48:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 48:25Karen Kilgariff?

  So, Maren writes to me in parentheses, note to Karen, I haven't been able to find a source that specifically states how many customers purchased the chili that day. It's always in vague terms. And I'm like, no more than four.

• 48:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely not more than, like, there's who? Nobody. No one.

• 48:43Karen Kilgariff?

  I bet you when the chili first came out in like the 80s, people were like, what a great substitute.

• 48:48Georgia Hardstark?

  But you could put it on a potato, a baked potato.

• 48:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Potato, you can have it with a salad.

• 48:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 48:52Karen Kilgariff?

  I think by 2005, people are just like, chili? I don't know.

• 48:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 48:57Karen Kilgariff?

  I could be wrong. Again, Wendy heads, let me know.

• 49:01Karen Kilgariff?

  So Dr. Fenstershabe makes a public statement where he reassures anyone who ate the chili in that timeframe from this specific Wendy's that they are probably fine, since the fingertip was presumably cooked at high enough temperatures to kill bacteria and viruses.

• 49:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Can I just picture him being C and popping it in his mouth and be like, it's totally fine. Choo choo choo.

• 49:20Karen Kilgariff?

  It's Erin Brockovich with, then you drink the water. Then you, if it's so fine, you drink the water.

• 49:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly. You have some chili from Yesterday, Marty.

• 49:27Karen Kilgariff?

  So, he advises anyone who may have eaten that chili to check in with their doctor just in case. Imagine having to run that press conference.

• 49:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 49:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Just the waves of horrified barfing.

• 49:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

• 49:43Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just like Stand By Me at the old pie eating contest. Okay. Now that a public health official is confirming the initial reports, of course, then local and national news picks up on the story. The San Francisco Chronicle actually sends a reporter to the Wendy's in San Jose to interview diners. And one woman who happens to be eating a bowl of chili when she's approached by the reporter tells the reporter she'd heard rumors about the finger, but she assumed it was just an urban legend.

• 50:09Georgia Hardstark?

  On the news that night?

• 50:11Karen Kilgariff?

  A four-day-old urban legend. That's denial. She liked her chili.

• 50:15Georgia Hardstark?

  She loves her fucking... Maybe we just didn't know about Wendy's chili. This one's so good that you'll eat it even after.

• 50:21Karen Kilgariff?

  When you're like, probably not a finger, though, right?

• 50:24Georgia Hardstark?

  And they took care of it already.

• 50:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 50:26Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 50:27Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a new batch.

• 50:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Why didn't they pull all the chili off their fucking, the market?

• 50:30Karen Kilgariff?

  I think they were like, there's no way this happened.

• 50:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 50:33Karen Kilgariff?

  So, you know. Okay, so, another diner hadn't heard the news at all until she got to Wendy's and overheard employees whispering about it behind the counter.

• 50:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Guys, love it.

• 50:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Shut up. She tells the reporter, quote, "I actually did check my food with my spoon." Again, was that food chili?

• 50:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Poking her burger with a spoon.

• 50:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Chili's being eaten. There's even a customer who walks in, fully aware of the situation, and jokingly asks the staff, quote, "Where's the finger at?"

• 51:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 51:02Karen Kilgariff?

  And then I just wrote in all caps, "I love him, I know it's a guy, and I love him."

• 51:08Karen Kilgariff?

  But in the first wave of reporting this story, one key detail is always missing. The name of the woman who discovered the finger in her chili.

• 51:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 51:16Karen Kilgariff?

  She explicitly asks not to be identified or described even, and reporters honor that request. But of course, her identity can't stay secret for long as this story gets wider and wider. And reporters find out that this woman's name is Anna Ayala, and she's a 39-year-old woman from Las Vegas who was in San Jose visiting relatives. Well, Dr. Fenster Schib has been trying to give the public peace of mind about any physical effects of consuming contaminated chili. The psychological fallout, of course, is uncontainable. And he knows this firsthand because he's the one that has to call Anna to give her the bad news. He's been checking in on her since the night before, which is when it happened.

• 52:00Karen Kilgariff?

  But now he has that confirmation from the medical examiner. So he asked to tell her that, in fact, it was a human body part in her chili.

• 52:08Georgia Hardstark?

  She didn't want anyone to know, like, her name because it's the same thing when you win the lottery, like, your family's just gonna come after you for body parts, the way they come after you for money.

• 52:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Or they're just, like, constantly like, "Oh, God."

• 52:18Georgia Hardstark?

  She chewed a finger.

• 52:20Karen Kilgariff?

  So he later says, quote, "I had to confirm it to her that she had indeed put a piece of human finger in her mouth. She kind of lost it."

• 52:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 52:28Karen Kilgariff?

  End quote. Totally understand.

• 52:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely.

• 52:31Karen Kilgariff?

  So within a week of her gruesome experience, Anna has completely dropped the pretense of anonymity, and now she's making the media rounds. She gives an exclusive interview to Good Morning America where she says that she's considering filing a lawsuit, and she talks about the emotional distress of the whole ordeal. She tells them, quote, "The thought of, you know, just knowing that there was a human remain in my mouth, it's disgusting. It's tearing me apart inside." End quote. So at first, of course, there's this outpouring of sympathy for her, and of course, a widespread disgust toward Wendy's and their chili. And then, over the next couple of weeks, Anna's story dominates national headlines. It fuels endless late-night jokes, which was the culture back then.

• 53:16Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm so glad that's not really, like, a thing anymore.

• 53:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it's...

• 53:19Georgia Hardstark?

  It was so tasteless.

• 53:20Karen Kilgariff?

  It was so con... well, I mean, it was just expected at the time. It was just like, yes, this is gonna happen, and it's immediately gonna be this, the joke fuel, and... You know, everything's up for ridicule.

• 53:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep.

• 53:33Karen Kilgariff?

  It also, though, tanks Wendy's sales.

• 53:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 53:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Especially in Northern California.

• 53:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 53:38Karen Kilgariff?

  I was there. This is the truth.

• 53:40Georgia Hardstark?

  You didn't need it.

• 53:41Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no one, everyone just was weirded out.

• 53:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 53:44Karen Kilgariff?

  But Wendy's is not sitting idly by, just watching all this happen.

• 53:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh-uh.

• 53:48Karen Kilgariff?

  They, as a corporation, of course, are looking for answers. This is big business.

• 53:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 53:52Karen Kilgariff?

  And they're not just going to sit there and be like, "We're so sorry."

• 53:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 53:55Karen Kilgariff?

  They make all their San Jose staffers take a polygraph test to show that they played no part in placing the finger in the chili.

• 54:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 54:03Karen Kilgariff?

  And then they hire their own private investigator to look into the matter for themselves.

• 54:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Damn, Wendy.

• 54:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Most importantly, the company posts a $50,000 reward, which they'll later bump up to $100,000.

• 54:17Georgia Hardstark?

  For what?

• 54:18Karen Kilgariff?

  For any information about how a finger could have wound up in their chili.

• 54:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, so they think it's fucking sabotage?

• 54:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Hell, yes.

• 54:24Georgia Hardstark?

  And they're ready to pay?

• 54:26Karen Kilgariff?

  They're like, "What's the, what's the whole story? Because this seems weird. We have a lot of checks and balances."

• 54:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, that's one, that's one angle.

• 54:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Nobody, not one employee at our restaurant knows what the fuck's going on.

• 54:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 54:37Karen Kilgariff?

  It, it was not them.

• 54:38Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 54:39Karen Kilgariff?

  We stand behind them, now that we've polygraphed them.

• 54:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 54:42Karen Kilgariff?

  And just FYI, in 2005, $100,000 would have been $160,000 in today's money.

• 54:49Georgia Hardstark?

  You need that. This is so Big Lebowski with the toe and the, yeah.

• 54:52Karen Kilgariff?

  It is. So, anyone with information is asked to call Wendy's anonymous tip line.

• 54:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Damn.

• 55:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Which their private investigator is actively screening themselves.

• 55:04Georgia Hardstark?

  That was like the best gig he's ever gotten, ever.

• 55:07Karen Kilgariff?

  To be on the Wendy's severed finger tip line.

• 55:11Georgia Hardstark?

  My god.

• 55:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Severed finger tip line.

• 55:13Georgia Hardstark?

  (laughing)

• 55:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so now, in tandem with Wendy's efforts, there's also an official police investigation into where this finger could have come from. And there are six detectives working on this case.

• 55:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Can we get those on a murder case?

• 55:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Could we have some sexual assault paid attention to?

• 55:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Would be great if we could get those kids tested.

• 55:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. But again, and I think we all know this now, in 2025, literally 20 years later, that when a corporation has an issue, that that is what's focused on. This is a money-making venture, and this is not thousands of dollars. This is hundreds of, this is millions of dollars, probably.

• 55:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 55:49Karen Kilgariff?

  So the thing is, no one can figure it out. The employees at the San Jose Wendy's location have all been ruled out. A deeper dive into the restaurant's supply chain also turns up nothing. There are seven different suppliers involved in producing Wendy's chili. Not a single one has reported any recent workplace injuries. That said, there are some clues. Early on, the medical examiner notes that the fingertip is not decomposed, meaning that it was likely severed recently. He also points out that it looks, quote, "torn off," possibly by manufacturing machinery rather than cleanly cut, suggesting that it could have come from a workplace accident.

• 56:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 56:30Karen Kilgariff?

  And then with its neatly groomed, still intact fingernail, the medical examiner also suspects this finger belongs to a woman.

• 56:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 56:37Karen Kilgariff?

  This information gets the police exactly nowhere. They fingerprint the fingertip, and then they run. So sorry.

• 56:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God, I almost spit that water out. They fingerprinted the fingertip.

• 56:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Who had to hold it and touch it? And were they yelling the entire time?

• 56:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 56:53Karen Kilgariff?

  No, Karen, the medical examiner is a professional.

• 56:56Georgia Hardstark?

  They're professionals.

• 56:56Karen Kilgariff?

  They deal with this constantly. It's not that big of a deal to them. They run those fingertip fingerprints through national databases. No hits. Clean.

• 57:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 57:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Clean record fingertip. Wendy's, meanwhile, is now on the defensive. They bring their own forensic expert to consult with the medical examiner, specifically on whether the fingertip had actually been cooked with the chili or added afterwards. Their analysis concludes that the finger had, in fact, been added later.

• 57:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 57:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Dr. Fenster Schib loops back into the tell reporters, quote, "The possibilities are still all out there on where and when the fingertip came into the chili." So they're going to like the health department.

• 57:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 57:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Everybody's going back to the press over and over like updates and like here's what needs to happen now.

• 57:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 57:49Karen Kilgariff?

  People need to, the story needs to be controlled in some way.

• 57:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 57:52Karen Kilgariff?

  With each new bit of information that comes to light, Wendy's feels more reaffirmed that they have done nothing wrong and that they're being set up. The corporation's senior vice president of communications at the time, Denny Lynch, tells the New York Times, quote, "Someone put something in a bowl of chili, but it was not us. We don't know what happened, but we know Wendy's is innocent." End quote. So Anna Ayala, meanwhile, is not backing down.

• 58:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 58:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Her attorney immediately shoots back, saying, quote, "Obviously, something slipped through, to put it lightly, and this is a strict liability type of case. It is a product liability case and a consumer doesn't expect to find body parts in their food."

• 58:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:33Karen Kilgariff?

  End quote. So while all of that's playing out in the media, behind the scenes, the Wendy's tip line is active.

• 58:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Ah.

• 58:41Karen Kilgariff?

  And in a matter of weeks, they reportedly received nearly 300 tips, and some are so bizarre, they end up making the news.

• 58:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 58:50Karen Kilgariff?

  For example, one comes from a 59-year-old Nevada woman who'd recently lost a finger to a leopard at her exotic animal compound outside of Las Vegas.

• 58:59Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 58:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is again where Anna lives.

• 59:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 59:02Karen Kilgariff?

  The woman says she last saw her finger on ice at the hospital, but has no idea where it ended up beyond that.

• 59:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Someone selling fingertips to, no, it doesn't track.

• 59:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Doesn't, doesn't make a lot of sense.

• 59:14Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I'm not getting it from A to B.

• 59:16Karen Kilgariff?

  This lead certainly adds more color to an already weird case, but the police quickly shut it down because the woman's lost finger and the fingertip found by Anna look entirely different.

• 59:25Georgia Hardstark?

  How do you fucking tell two finger, come on?

• 59:28Karen Kilgariff?

  You want me to tell you?

• 59:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 59:29Karen Kilgariff?

  They put eight fingertips in a lineup. They're all wearing turtlenecks.

• 59:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Which one was in your mouth?

• 59:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Do any of these look familiar? Long fingernail, little bitten fingernail.

• 59:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Little quirky, smart one's got dimples.

• 59:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Hangnail.

• 59:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Smile.

• 59:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, then a new tip is called into the Wendy's hotline. Ring, ring, Wendy's fingertip hotline. But it's not about the finger. It's about Anna herself.

• 59:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Anna.

• 59:52Karen Kilgariff?

  This caller claims that back in 2002, Anna scammed her by selling her an $11,000 trailer that she, Anna, in fact, did not own.

• 1:00:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no.

• 1:00:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Of course, this has nothing to do with the Wendy's incident, but if it's true, it could maybe shed some light on the character of the person that is at the center of all of this.

• 1:00:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:00:12Karen Kilgariff?

  It's not a great look for Anna. So around the same time, it comes to light that Anna had been involved in an unusually large number of lawsuits.

• 1:00:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no, you can't, we can't do that.

• 1:00:23Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 1:00:23Georgia Hardstark?

  No, people, people are on to you.

• 1:00:25Karen Kilgariff?

  The thing about lawsuits is it goes into the permanent record and the public record.

• 1:00:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, and like, most people have zero to one.

• 1:00:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. You hope.

• 1:00:34Georgia Hardstark?

  You'd hope.

• 1:00:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so the AP reports, quote, "Investigators have found 13 civil actions involving Ayla or her children. At times, it says she has settled cases for cash payouts before the lawsuits have gone to court."

• 1:00:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, that's, that's the scam right there.

• 1:00:51Karen Kilgariff?

  So now here we are. Also, some of these lawsuits are very shady. In 1999, for example, a car dealership sued Anna and her then-boyfriend, accusing them of writing a bad check to buy a car.

• 1:01:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:01:02Karen Kilgariff?

  The same year, Anna sued that dealership, claiming a wheel fell off of the vehicle that they had sold to her. Her case was eventually tossed out, and she reportedly never repaid the debt.

• 1:01:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Hmm.

• 1:01:13Karen Kilgariff?

  So she got a car.

• 1:01:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Tried to accuse them of like-

• 1:01:16Georgia Hardstark?

  The wheel fell.

• 1:01:16Karen Kilgariff?

  You almost killed us with this thing. They're like, you didn't pay for it.

• 1:01:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:21Karen Kilgariff?

  It all gets settled out of court.

• 1:01:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:01:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, people are wondering if Anna planned the whole incident with the hopes of reaching a big settlement with Wendy's.

• 1:01:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, now the standing up screaming thing makes a little more sense.

• 1:01:30Karen Kilgariff?

  It kind of go, then you're like, replaying it in your mind. The movie starts again. You see the scene in a different light.

• 1:01:36Georgia Hardstark?

  You do.

• 1:01:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Suddenly, it's raining outside.

• 1:01:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, the police investigation and media coverage begin to shift in that direction and all eyes are now squarely on Anna.

• 1:01:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Honey.

• 1:01:48Karen Kilgariff?

  On April 6th, only about two weeks after Anna discovers the fingertip, quote, quote, police get a warrant to search her home. When reporters catch wind of this, they swarm Anna's property, hoping to get a statement, and she calls out to those reporters from her front door, saying, quote, "Lies, lies, lies, that's all I am hearing. They should look at Wendy's. What are they hiding? Why are we being victimized again and again?"

• 1:02:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, drama queen.

• 1:02:12Karen Kilgariff?

  I would like to, I wish we could hold up performances side by side and see who's more convincing. Because I feel like when people are cornered like this, and then they're like, no, we're just going to double down and go bold.

• 1:02:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:22Karen Kilgariff?

  It's some of the worst acting you've always ever seen.

• 1:02:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Why do people think that they can get away with shit like this, though? Like, they just think they're smarter than everyone, right?

• 1:02:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, yeah.

• 1:02:30Georgia Hardstark?

  But you're not. It's like, actually kind of dumb.

• 1:02:33Karen Kilgariff?

  You think you're smarter than everybody, but also you think you're a really good actor. You think you're a believable actor.

• 1:02:38Georgia Hardstark?

  And a good liar, which is just like, no.

• 1:02:40Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no. And yet, just eight days later, on April 14th, so she's like, why am I being victimized? Everything's a lie.

• 1:02:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Then, on April 14th, her lawyer tells the Associated Press that Anna is no longer pursuing legal action against Wendy's, citing, quote, "great emotional distress" because of the investigation and all the media.

• 1:03:03Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what? I'm gonna drop it. Because I just, I don't even care.

• 1:03:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Forget it.

• 1:03:07Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't even like, want your chili.

• 1:03:09Karen Kilgariff?

  You're just being mean to me, so I guess I will give up this lawsuit where you put a severed finger in my chili.

• 1:03:14Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't need a lifetime supply of chili. Like, just, I'll just, I'm fine.

• 1:03:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Just forget it. Storm out of the kitchen. You started this fight, lady. About a week later, on April 21st, both Anna and her husband, Jamie, are arrested during a raid on their home. There's a colorful detail in the Chronicle story that covers this, where they say that Anna is reportedly watching Meet the Fockers on video when the police arrive.

• 1:03:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:03:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Just to really paint that picture.

• 1:03:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Someone's PR was working overtime or they're like, what movie were they? Put that in.

• 1:03:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Paint the whole picture. Maren included that and she was like, a useless yet colorful detail. It's how she phrased it. So Anna's hit with two charges felony grand theft connected to the allegations that she sold that trailer that wasn't hers.

• 1:04:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, that thing's coming back in the picture?

• 1:04:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, they'll pull that right back in to get as much stuff against her as they can. But the other one, and more importantly, is the attempted grand theft for allegedly spreading the finger hoax at the expense of Wendy's business. Her husband Jamie is actually arrested the same night, but totally separate. He is not involved in that. As far as they know, he's arrested for failing to pay child support to his former partner. So Anna's held on $500,000 bail and the plans are in motion to extradite her from Nevada to California. For the Wendy's fraud alone, she's facing up to six years in prison and $2.5 million in restitution, which would be worth more than $4 million today.

• 1:04:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Whoa.

• 1:04:43Karen Kilgariff?

  So at this point, the case against Anna is mostly circumstantial. Prosecutors need more concrete evidence to secure this conviction. And the biggest missing piece is the owner of the fingertip.

• 1:04:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Where are her children?

• 1:04:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, oh, I didn't even think of that.

• 1:04:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I was thinking the fingertip belonged to one of them.

• 1:05:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh. Well, figuring out where it came from could be the key to proving Anna's involvement. On May 4th, another tip comes into the Wendy's hotline. The caller claims to know exactly where the finger came from. He names a man who recently lost part of his finger in a workplace accident in Nevada, who just so happens to work with Anna's husband.

• 1:05:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, shit.

• 1:05:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Maren's chosen to keep the finger's owner anonymous since he was never charged with a crime.

• 1:05:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:05:28Karen Kilgariff?

  So I support her in that choice.

• 1:05:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:30Karen Kilgariff?

  So San Jose police head to Nevada to question this man. And sure enough, he's missing a finger, which he explains he lost in an on the job accident not long ago. Then he drops a bombshell. He admits that he sold his severed finger to Anna's husband for $100 to settle a debt.

• 1:05:48Georgia Hardstark?

  What? Well, you didn't question why someone wants your fucking severed finger?

• 1:05:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Look, he wants that debt off the books.

• 1:05:54Georgia Hardstark?

  I'd just be like, sure. I would fucking sell my severed finger, wouldn't you?

• 1:05:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Absolutely.

• 1:05:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:00Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean.

• 1:06:00Georgia Hardstark?

  No questions asked?

• 1:06:01Karen Kilgariff?

  I guess NQA. So, but not only that, Jamie allegedly told them that he and Anna planned to plant it in food. And according to legal filings, Jamie even promised him a cut of the eventual settlement, $250,000, as long as he kept quiet.

• 1:06:17Georgia Hardstark?

  How many nightlights have they had that night?

• 1:06:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Dude.

• 1:06:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, he didn't, I'm on this guy's side, like.

• 1:06:22Karen Kilgariff?

  I am too. The finger guy was kind of like, well, this horrible thing happened to me. I don't have the top of my finger. They said they can't put it back on.

• 1:06:28Georgia Hardstark?

  I got my 150, you're fine.

• 1:06:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. I owe this guy big time. He says he, if I just give him the finger and then maybe a little more later on, I don't know. And then as it unfolds, he's like, oh, Jesus Christ. I have to call these people.

• 1:06:40Georgia Hardstark?

  This is too messy.

• 1:06:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank God there's a tip line. 1-800-FROSTY.

• 1:06:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:06:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Call now. Okay, so now, authorities soon confirm with DNA that the finger belongs to this man. So now, the case against Anna Iala and her husband Jamie is solid. In September 2005, about six months after the whole saga began, the couple pleads guilty to conspiracy to file a false claim and attempted grand theft. Jamie's sentenced to 12 years, while Anna gets nine, although later, the nine is reduced to four on a legal technicality. As a part of their sentencing, the couple is ordered to pay Wendy's more than $20 million in damages.

• 1:07:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Come on.

• 1:07:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Which would be over $30 million today, but the company agrees to let them off the hook for this money as long as they never attempt to profit off of their hoax.

• 1:07:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Damn, they should have put them in their commercials. That would have been fucking hilarious.

• 1:07:34Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so wooden of, as a person who was there, as a person who was there having to kind of like grapple with this weird like.

• 1:07:43Georgia Hardstark?

  I know it's not, but.

• 1:07:44Karen Kilgariff?

  But also, is this, is this how we are this vulnerable?

• 1:07:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:51Karen Kilgariff?

  To just kind of anything?

• 1:07:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Anyone wants to tell us anything.

• 1:07:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. Even though Wendy's is ultimately vindicated, Anna and Jamie's scam cost them dearly. The New York Times reports, quote, "The claims and the mass of news media attention it brought caused individual franchises in Northern California to lose 20 to 50% of their sales." According to the affidavit, Wendy's estimated it has been losing $1 million a day since the incident was made public on March 22nd. So in a desperate attempt to win customers back, Wendy's launches a free Frosty Weekend promotion, but the financial hit goes beyond corporate losses. Business at the San Jose Wendy's dropped so drastically that several employees lose their jobs or have their hours cut.

• 1:08:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 1:08:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Over time, though, Wendy's more or less moves on. So do Anna and Jamie, who eventually serve their sentences. We don't know much about their lives post the Wendy's hoax, especially for Jamie, who returns completely to a private life, never hear from him again. But in 2013, Anna's back in the headlines. That June, her 26-year-old son accidentally shoots himself in the ankle with a gun, which he is not allowed to possess because he is a convicted felon. But instead of just telling the truth, he and Anna file a false police report claiming he was shot by an unknown gunman. An officer working the case later tells ABC News, quote, "They gave pretty specific information to the point we actually thought we had a suspect.

• 1:09:25Karen Kilgariff?

  We interviewed this person. We conducted various forensic testing as far as gunshot residue goes, so we treated it like the real deal." End quote. Eventually, under police questioning, Anna's son admits that they made the whole story up. They are both arrested and ultimately convicted on charges related to filing the false report. So then again, for years, things are quiet, until July of 2024, when the New York Times publishes an article with the innocuous title, quote, "Harris Narrows Gap Against Trump, Times/Siena Poll Finds." It's a standard piece on the latest 2024 presidential polling, until people find buried

• 1:10:05Karen Kilgariff?

  within it a quote from a 58-year-old San Jose woman that catches their attention.

• 1:10:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no.

• 1:10:11Karen Kilgariff?

  She tells the Times, quote, I'm a Democrat, but I've changed my mind after everything that's happened with Joe Biden's administration. I mean, the border situation is out of control, end quote. That woman is Anna Ayala. It doesn't take long for people to put two and two together. A senior editor at The Atlantic screen grabs the Times article and tweets, quote, "The latest N Y T poll write-up quotes the woman who was convicted of planting a severed finger in her Wendy's chili." And of course, that goes viral. And the New York Times now fully in damage control mode, issues a retraction, saying, quote, "The Times removed comments from one voter in an earlier version of this article after learning that the person had been convicted

• 1:10:55Karen Kilgariff?

  in an extortion scheme in which she made fraudulent claims," end quote. So with that, some 20 years since the first grabbing headlines alongside that, quote, "crunchy fingertip," this bizarre story of Anna Ayala comes to rest, for now, anyway. That tweet and then the accompanying article is what Allison sent me when she was like, hey, and just in case, just, you know, keeping up with stuff, did you know that this was going on? And that's when I sent it to Maren and I was like, oh, my God, we have to tell the story. And that is the story of the Wendy's severed finger hoax of 2005.

• 1:11:33Georgia Hardstark?

  I still have so many questions.

• 1:11:36Karen Kilgariff?

  I know.

• 1:11:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Was it actually ever in her mouth? Did she have to go through with that part? Was there a crunch?

• 1:11:41Karen Kilgariff?

  I bet no. There's no way you would do that if you weren't.

• 1:11:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Fake napkin.

• 1:11:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Fake spitting.

• 1:11:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Fake spitting.

• 1:11:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Already in the napkin.

• 1:11:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Unless she went all the way with it. Well, you kind of got to. You know, when you tell a lie, it's best to get as close to the truth as possible.

• 1:11:54Karen Kilgariff?

  How close?

• 1:11:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Close as to...

• 1:11:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Are you willing to get?

• 1:11:57Georgia Hardstark?

  No. Not that fucking close.

• 1:12:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Way.

• 1:12:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Did anyone get the reward money? That's what I want to know, too.

• 1:12:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's right.

• 1:12:05Georgia Hardstark?

  I have so many questions.

• 1:12:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I wonder, well, but I think the person whose finger it was, if he called the tip line...

• 1:12:12Georgia Hardstark?

  He should get the money. No.

• 1:12:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Should he?

• 1:12:15Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:12:15Karen Kilgariff?

  He was part of it.

• 1:12:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Was he? He wasn't...

• 1:12:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Think of the diners. Think of what the diners who heard her screaming and began projectile vomiting in that Wendy's dining room. Think of what they would want.

• 1:12:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, they should get the money. Let's give them the money.

• 1:12:29Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, if we could.

• 1:12:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Chili for life, yeah.

• 1:12:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Lifetime chili.

• 1:12:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Fix it. That's how you reverse it. It's all so upsetting.

• 1:12:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, man, that was one for the ages. That reminds me of one that like, if you're going on a road trip with someone who doesn't listen to My Favorite Murder, play that one, play this one for them.

• 1:12:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:12:50Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 1:12:50Karen Kilgariff?

  For sure.

• 1:12:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Just like, just do it.

• 1:12:52Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I feel like there was, like, when we do that and just go through, it's like, not just hometowns, but just like, do you remember weird stuff from your childhood? It's like, that's how, like, thinking of those stories where I was like, I remember when this happened and it was, we would make jokes as we would drive by a Wendy's we were constantly at, like-

• 1:13:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's talk about it.

• 1:13:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Please.

• 1:13:13Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't think I ever stopped going to Wendy's.

• 1:13:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Why would you? It's fine.

• 1:13:15Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so good.

• 1:13:16Georgia Hardstark?

  There's no fingers.

• 1:13:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, that's the show, ladies and gentlemen.

• 1:13:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, thank you guys for listening on your road trip. We appreciate you.

• 1:13:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Now that I'm thinking about it, this, should I have done a warning at the beginning of this story?

• 1:13:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, what about chili?

• 1:13:27Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 1:13:27Georgia Hardstark?

  That's fine.

• 1:13:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you hate chili? Don't listen.

• 1:13:29Georgia Hardstark?

  It's called My Favorite Murder, so like, if you can't handle a finger chili story, then-

• 1:13:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Get out of our kitchen, where we're chopping off fingertips left, right, and center. We love you. Stay sexy.

• 1:13:39Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 1:13:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 1:13:52Karen Kilgariff?

  This has been an Exactly Right Production.

• 1:13:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

• 1:13:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle-Crayton.

• 1:13:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

• 1:14:01Karen Kilgariff?

  This episode was mixed by Liana Scolacci.

• 1:14:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Our researchers are Maren McClashan and Ally Elkin.

• 1:14:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Email your hometowns to [email protected].

• 1:14:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at MyFavoriteMurder.

• 1:14:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Vacation planning should feel like a breeze, not a deep dive into countless travel sites searching for the best deal.

• 1:14:24Georgia Hardstark?

  With Cheap Caribbean's Budget Beach Finder, you can search every destination and every date, all in one search.

• 1:14:30Karen Kilgariff?

  You'll save time and money with the Budget Beach Finder.

• 1:14:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Say goodbye to endless scrolling and tab hopping and hello to Budget Beach Bliss at your fingertips.

• 1:14:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to cheapcaribbean.com to try out the Budget Beach Finder and see just how stress-free vacation planning should be.

• 1:14:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 1:14:46Speaker 04

  Cool fall nights always make me want to entertain more. A few friends around the table, maybe a fire outside when the sun goes down. Before everyone comes over, I stop at Total Wine & More. Right now, there's a cranberry-flavored wine, a crisp apple wine, even a pumpkin spice cream that's perfect in coffee after dinner. And with the lowest prices, I can bring home a few different fall flavors for everyone to try. Find your favorite fall flavors at the lowest prices at Total Wine & More. Spirits are not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. Must be 21.

• 1:15:20Speaker 05

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of 5-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.