Pod Insights My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark 526 - Virginia Slim Minute About this episode On today’s episode, Karen covers the first woman to climb Mount Everest, Junko Tabei.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Speaker 00 This is exactly right.
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2:00 Georgia Hardstark? Hello.
2:00 Karen Kilgariff? Hello and welcome.
2:01 Georgia Hardstark? To my favorite murder.
2:03 Karen Kilgariff? That's Georgia Hardstark.
2:04 Georgia Hardstark? That's Karen Kilgariff.
2:05 Karen Kilgariff? This is a solo episode.
2:06 Georgia Hardstark? And you know what that means.
2:08 Karen Kilgariff? Makeup tips.
2:09 Georgia Hardstark? Makeup tips. I don't know how it happened. We were just like, let's start solo episodes.
2:15 Karen Kilgariff? With another one of our passions.
2:16 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, of what's it called when you say you should try something?
2:19 Karen Kilgariff? Recommendations?
2:20 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you.
2:20 Karen Kilgariff? That's right. Recommendations and like beauty stuff.
2:24 Georgia Hardstark? Beauty talk, yeah.
2:25 Karen Kilgariff? It's like fun stuff.
2:27 Georgia Hardstark? Do you want to go first, Tim?
2:28 Karen Kilgariff? Sure. I can never find the correct color of foundation.
2:31 Georgia Hardstark? Sure.
2:32 Karen Kilgariff? Because my base color is red with green.
2:35 Georgia Hardstark? You're also like, you seem like you should be pale, but you're tan.
2:38 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
2:39 Georgia Hardstark? Right?
2:40 Karen Kilgariff? I get, people put pale makeup on me all the time and then I look like a ghoul.
2:44 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
2:44 Karen Kilgariff? There's a little brown under there and also a lot of red that reads as brown.
2:49 Georgia Hardstark? Sure.
2:50 Karen Kilgariff? The redness is a real problem.
2:51 Georgia Hardstark? Sounds fun.
2:52 Karen Kilgariff? Anyhow, there's a TikToker who I adore named Tyler Mars, who she, she has rosacea. So she's always giving these recommendations of like
3:01 Georgia Hardstark? How to tone down the red.
3:02 Karen Kilgariff? Covering and stuff. It's just like, I just look up if I need to get something.
3:06 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
3:06 Karen Kilgariff? So anyhow, there's a foundation that I found on TikTok, of course.
3:10 Georgia Hardstark? Of course.
3:11 Karen Kilgariff? And it's, the brand is R E M. And it is the best foundation I've worn to date.
3:16 Georgia Hardstark? Is it like, is it red correction foundation or it's just foundation that just works that way?
3:22 Karen Kilgariff? It's like, it's a foundation color that somehow addresses all of the things that need to be covered without making me look like either a vampire or like I looked in high school with my one color of CoverGirl makeup.
3:34 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, God. Oh, God.
3:35 Karen Kilgariff? That's just clowny, clowny.
3:36 Georgia Hardstark? Have you smelled that recently, the like CoverGirl powder? Oh, my God. It'll bring you back.
3:41 Karen Kilgariff? It would like immediate bawling. And I just want to say, I have bought every other foundation. So it's like, people are like, you've got to try it. Armani, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, sure, except for that for some reason on me it turns orange.
3:53 Georgia Hardstark? It's so about what it works for you. I use Charlotte Tilbury right now, but in three weeks, it might not work anymore for me and I look terrible.
3:59 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, it's real high stakes. And also a lot of panic decision making because we're like, now we're on camera again. Now we're on camera again.
4:06 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
4:06 Karen Kilgariff? So I want to get it right. R E M, R E M's getting me there, I think.
4:11 Georgia Hardstark? Mine is also like a face one. It's, I got, we got our makeup done recently and whenever I get my makeup done, I end up with tons of notes of what to buy because I don't fucking know and the makeup artist is great.
4:22 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
4:23 Georgia Hardstark? The thing that I bought this time around, there's a drag queen named Kim Chi.
4:28 Karen Kilgariff? Kim Chi, yeah.
4:29 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, who was on the, was a finalist on season eight of RuPaul's Drag Race. Kim Chi has a makeup line and Kim Chi's Puff Puff Pass Setting Powder. I got in two colors, like one for under eye and one for my skin. I am obsessed with it.
4:46 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, because you have been looking very like perfectly blurred.
4:49 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you.
4:50 Karen Kilgariff? Like.
4:51 Georgia Hardstark? Maybe you need to get your eyes checked.
4:53 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, exactly.
4:54 Georgia Hardstark? You actually can't see.
4:55 Karen Kilgariff? I've been puff puff passing to myself right before the show starts. I'm gonna try that for sure.
5:00 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, it's called Puff Puff Pass Setting Powder and, you know, it comes in such a like cute, fun packaging that you're like, this isn't gonna do anything. You know what I mean?
5:09 Karen Kilgariff? Right, yes.
5:09 Georgia Hardstark? That's my brain, if that's how it works.
5:11 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
5:12 Georgia Hardstark? But if the makeup artist hadn't like used it on me, I wouldn't have tried it. And now it's like, I use two different types of powder, which is like so not me. I'm so low maintenance.
5:21 Karen Kilgariff? You're very advanced.
5:22 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
5:22 Karen Kilgariff? I think this, living in the cultural world of drag queen dominance.
5:27 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, yeah.
5:27 Karen Kilgariff? Has benefited and like, it's raised all boats.
5:30 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
5:31 Karen Kilgariff? Because, yeah, I care about makeup, but do I have that kind of time to be like, bake it in with a triangle pad or whatever? It's like, okay, but maybe not.
5:41 Georgia Hardstark? If you're a drag queen, like you have to do that. You have to be like, good at it.
5:45 Karen Kilgariff? You know all the tricks. And it has to stay on for like 12 hours through sweating, all the different things.
5:50 Georgia Hardstark? Well, as you and I always say, we must listen to drag queens more.
5:53 Karen Kilgariff? Please, always listen to drag queens.
5:55 Georgia Hardstark? Let them pass, uh.
5:57 Karen Kilgariff? Puff puff?
5:59 Georgia Hardstark? No, I was gonna say.
6:01 Karen Kilgariff? Pass legislation?
6:02 Georgia Hardstark? That's the one. Let them pass legislation, please.
6:05 Karen Kilgariff? That's right.
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9:02 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye. Well, what a perfect intro into my solo story for today.
9:08 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, really?
9:08 Karen Kilgariff? No.
9:10 Georgia Hardstark? It's actually terrible, okay.
9:11 Karen Kilgariff? But why not? Well, only in kind of in that it's about a woman.
9:16 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
9:16 Karen Kilgariff? Who's a trailblazer.
9:17 Georgia Hardstark? Oh.
9:18 Karen Kilgariff? Who's doing it all for herself.
9:20 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
9:21 Karen Kilgariff? Much like Kim Chi and the rest of the RuPaul Dragway cast.
9:24 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
9:26 Karen Kilgariff? Shout out, Katya. You covered the deaths on Mount Everest in our episode 174.
9:32 Georgia Hardstark? One of my favorite stories to cover of all time.
9:34 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, it was good.
9:35 Georgia Hardstark? I still think about it.
9:36 Karen Kilgariff? We titled that episode "Rough Winds and High Water."
9:39 Georgia Hardstark? That's funny.
9:40 Karen Kilgariff? So we've talked about it before. When you think of Mount Everest, and I know you think about it a lot, the first name that usually pops into your head or anyone's head is Sir Edmund Hillary.
9:49 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
9:50 Karen Kilgariff? The first man, along with his Sherpa, Tenzing Norgay, who got to the top of Mount Everest in 1953.
9:56 Georgia Hardstark? The first ones to do it?
9:57 Karen Kilgariff? First two to do it, yeah. And it was in 53. Today, I'm going to tell you about the boundary-breaking, trailblazing first woman to climb Mount Everest.
10:06 Georgia Hardstark? No.
10:06 Karen Kilgariff? This year marks the 50th anniversary of her achievement.
10:10 Georgia Hardstark? Shut up.
10:11 Karen Kilgariff? But like many of the great historic women that we talk about on this show, you've probably never heard her name. Writer Jenny Hall reported on her for CNN, writing, quote, "Her bravery helped her lead record-setting all-women expeditions and overcome the mountain of sexism in this male-dominated space. Yet very few organizations, even in Japan, have thought to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the first ascent of Everest by a woman."
10:36 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
10:36 Karen Kilgariff? Well, then, fine, I'll do it.
10:39 Georgia Hardstark? It falls on Karen once again.
10:40 Karen Kilgariff? Once again, I'll do it. I'll celebrate women on Everest. Today I'm going to tell you about an athlete who refused to take no for an answer, who defied strict cultural expectations, and who was so unstoppable even an avalanche couldn't keep her down.
10:55 Georgia Hardstark? Damn.
10:55 Karen Kilgariff? This is the story of Japanese mountaineer Junko Tabei.
11:00 Georgia Hardstark? Amazing. I'd like, yes, I want to hear that. It never crossed my mind.
11:03 Karen Kilgariff? Right?
11:04 Georgia Hardstark? Perfect.
11:04 Karen Kilgariff? Okay. Sources from this story that Marin used are a 2017 Outside Magazine article by Brad Fournette entitled "A Final Interview With Junko Tabei," and a 1996 Sports Illustrated article by Robert Horn entitled "No Mountain Too High For Her: How Junko Tabei Defied Japanese Views Of Women To Become An Expert Climber."
11:26 Georgia Hardstark? Amazing.
11:27 Karen Kilgariff? The rest of the sources are in our show notes. So, we begin in September of 1939, when Junko, at the time her last name was Ishibashi, is born in a small town in Japan's Fukushima Prefecture.
11:38 Georgia Hardstark? Mm-hmm.
11:39 Karen Kilgariff? A prefecture is basically a state.
11:41 Georgia Hardstark? Got it.
11:41 Karen Kilgariff? But I love the word prefecture.
11:43 Georgia Hardstark? I love the word prefecture. Yeah, I do too.
11:45 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, sorry, while we're here, just because of that word.
11:47 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
11:48 Karen Kilgariff? If you haven't watched Blue Eye Samurai on Netflix, it's an anime series, and it is like an Oscar-winning film.
11:56 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
11:57 Karen Kilgariff? It is unbelievably made.
11:58 Georgia Hardstark? Great.
11:59 Karen Kilgariff? Great. Fukushima Prefecture is one of the country's largest prefectures, I keep saying it, stretched from the Pacific coast inward to the mountains. We all have heard of it from the devastating 2011 earthquake, and then tsunami, and then nuclear disaster. Very horrible time. But this is a stunning part of Japan, complete with ski resorts, hot springs, cherry blossoms, volcanic lakes, and beautiful places to hike. So it's no surprise that even as a little girl, Junko is captivated by the nature around her. When she's just 10 years old, her teacher takes her class on field trips to two nearby mountains, both around 6,000 feet in elevation, which aren't, you know, huge, but they're
12:43 Karen Kilgariff? not small either, for kids especially. And Junko isn't the type of kid anyone would say was adventurous. She's very tiny. As a child, she endures multiple bouts of pneumonia, and even as an adult, she only ever gets to four foot nine and about 90 pounds. So she's a tiny lady. But Junko says that because of her stature, she's, quote, stamped as a weak child. But something clicks for her on these mountain field trips, and her life is never the same after. She will later remember, quote, "I was so surprised by the rocky, dry hills and a stream of hot water that came from a hot spring. I was shocked to feel a little chilly while we were at the top of the mountain because it was summer.
13:26 Karen Kilgariff? I realized that there were so many things in the world which I have never encountered, and that it is fun to see and learn directly through one's own experiences. I became determined to go wherever I could go." Wow. So this is just a child being like, "I love life." Yeah. "I'm into this." Yeah. Although if I saw a hot spring in a Japanese mountain, I think I would lose it. Yeah, for sure. So cool. I mean, you can see it in Palm Springs, and it's still amazing. There it is. But of course, being a little girl with an interest in the outdoors comes with its challenges. It's post-World War II Japan, so many people are struggling financially. The country as a whole is just trying to get its bearings after a horrible war. And of course, with hiking, by the time you invest in a pair of good boots
14:11 Karen Kilgariff? and transportation to the trail, it could be considered expensive by some people and frivolous to spend money to basically just hike around a mountain in really tough economic times. Yeah. But more than that, Junko is a girl, and at the time, Japan has very rigid social conventions for men and women. And hiking, climbing, and adventuring is squarely something men do. As Robert Horn's reports for Sports Illustrated, quote, "Despite Japan's tradition of explorers and adventurers, many of those who dared to strike out on their own paths, especially women, risked the fate foreseen in the Japanese adage, quote, 'The nail that sticks up will be hammered down.'" Yeah. Oh, my God, what a time. Yeah. And adventurers's dreams were often not considered appropriate
14:56 Karen Kilgariff? for a young Japanese woman. So that's end quote. So after those formative grade school field trips, Junko never looks back because she doesn't care. She, she is not, for some reason, and I would love to know, was it just her personality? Did she have like a badass mom? But like, these incredibly strict kind of rules and expectations just don't faze her. By the time she's in high school, she plans hiking trips whenever she can. It's almost a meditative practice for her. She says, quote, "It wasn't like a competition. If you go slow, you can make it to the top. Or if you must, you can quit at the middle. But Japan was very poor at the time. I couldn't think about climbing mountains or any kind of leisure.
15:40 Karen Kilgariff? We had to worry about what we would eat." So Junko eventually enrolls in an all-women's college in Tokyo where she studies English literature and plans on becoming a teacher. Unlike her fondness for outdoor activities, this is considered a respectable path for young women. All the while, Junko is dreaming about climbing, though. She manages to find a like-minded female friend at school and they train together during the week. On the weekends, they head out to the mountains. And by the time Junko graduates in 1962, she's become an experienced mountaineer. So as any other climber with her skill level would do, Junko goes right ahead and joins several alpine clubs. The thing is, these are understood to be for men. At the time, nothing like an alpine club exists for female climbers.
16:25 Karen Kilgariff? And the reaction to Junko's membership is mixed. A few of the men respect her skill and her sense of adventure, but others outright refuse to climb with her.
16:33 Georgia Hardstark? Jesus.
16:34 Karen Kilgariff? And many think that she's only hanging around to find a husband.
16:37 Georgia Hardstark? Okay. Why else would you go?
16:41 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. It's not gorgeous Japanese mountainside.
16:44 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, you like hiking, but you don't think women like hiking?
16:46 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. You like it just fine.
16:48 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, and that's fine.
16:50 Karen Kilgariff? But Junko stays focused, and by her mid-20s, she's summited every one of Japan's most prominent peaks.
16:56 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
16:56 Karen Kilgariff? This includes Mount Fuji, which is about 12,400 feet above sea level. And she's funding these climbs by working as an editor for an academic journal and giving piano and English lessons. She does it all.
17:09 Georgia Hardstark? I mean, yeah.
17:10 Karen Kilgariff? And she's tiny.
17:11 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
17:12 Karen Kilgariff? She spends most of her downtime either climbing or training with the hopes of summiting larger and larger peaks. And then in 1965, Junko meets a man named Masanobu Tabeyi. He's a seasoned Japanese mountaineer in his own right.
17:26 Georgia Hardstark? Ah.
17:26 Karen Kilgariff? So she falls in love with another mountaineer.
17:29 Georgia Hardstark? That's romantic. You gotta find someone who at least...
17:32 Karen Kilgariff? Who likes your stuff.
17:33 Georgia Hardstark? Supports your hobby.
17:34 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. They fall in love, and they're married the next year when Junko is 27 years old. But her parents don't approve of this marriage because Masanobu doesn't have a college degree. But Junko marries him anyway. She doesn't give a shit about anything. She's like, "Oh, is that your opinion about my life?
17:51 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
17:51 Karen Kilgariff? I'll see you later."
17:52 Georgia Hardstark? Enjoy it.
17:53 Karen Kilgariff? And the two have a daughter together, who they name Noriko. And later, they have a son named Shinya. So now, she's not only the rare female mountaineer in 1960s Japan, she's also a working mother. When she's in her early 30s, Junko says that she, quote, "began to dream about going to the Himalayas with a team of only women."
18:13 Georgia Hardstark? Ooh.
18:13 Karen Kilgariff? Mm-hmm. To make that happen, she does something that's never been done before in Japan. In 1969, she forms the country's very first women's climbing organization.
18:23 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
18:24 Karen Kilgariff? Its name, translated into English, is sometimes reported as Ladies Climbing Club, and sometimes reported as Women's Mountaineering, depending on how people feel about it.
18:34 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
18:35 Karen Kilgariff? And the group's slogan is, quote, "Let's go on an overseas expedition by ourselves."
18:42 Karen Kilgariff? Translation. Yes, let's. Let's. Around 15 women join Junko's group, each united by a dream to climb the world's tallest mountains, but finding time to train is not easy. Like Junko, these women have jobs, or families, or both, and Japan's standard vacation time is just two weeks a year, which many people don't feel empowered to fully take because of Japan's intense work culture. Right. So you have it, but you kind of aren't supposed to go on it. Yeah. This is complicating in and of itself because these expeditions require time off for training and for travel. And on top of that, devoting time to a masculine hobby like mountaineering is stigmatized in the 1970s.
19:24 Karen Kilgariff? The women face judgment for not wanting to devote their entire beings to their husbands and their children, to which Junko has said, quote, "I am a housewife. I just climb mountains because I love it. And if people want to call me that crazy mountain woman, that's okay." Cool. Love her. Eventually Junko and her group plan an expedition to Annapurna 3 in Nepal, which is nearly 25,000 feet in elevation. This is Junko's first time traveling outside of Japan, and she leads the climb. The group travels up a new route to Annapurna 3's summit, and they successfully reach the top on May 19, 1970. Karen Kilgariff is eight days old. Oh, my God. It's her first week in the world. She's loving it.
20:08 Karen Kilgariff? She's loving this energy. So they, on May 19, 1970, become the first women ever to climb Annapurna 3. Wow. And now their slogan is, "Let's be the first women to climb Annapurna 3 by ourselves." That's not true. It's there, on the summit of Annapurna 3, that Junko experiences another sort of spiritual awakening. Robert Horn reports in Sports Illustrated, quote, "The ascent profoundly changed her. There would be no more slaving in the late hours to prove that she was her company's most loyal worker. No more fears about speaking her mind. No more concerns about what people said behind her back." Wow. It's also, in this moment, that Junko really starts to consider climbing Mount Everest.
20:53 Karen Kilgariff? Because she did that one. Yeah. You might as well do this one. Oh, yeah. She brings the idea to her climbing club, and they begin to mobilize with that goal in mind. But Junko says, quote, "Most of the men in the Alpine community were against our plan, saying that it would be impossible to go to Everest on a women's-only expedition." Why?
21:12 Georgia Hardstark? They're just so negative.
21:12 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, God.
21:14 Georgia Hardstark? Can we get a little positivity?
21:15 Karen Kilgariff? How about, "Or just shut up."
21:17 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, or just shut up.
21:18 Karen Kilgariff? If you can't, zip it. So Junko and her crew set out to prove them wrong. They don't need us saying this.
21:23 Georgia Hardstark? No.
21:24 Karen Kilgariff? They're already doing it. It's, it already happened.
21:26 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
21:27 Karen Kilgariff? But getting to Everest is not easy. Of course, the women first need permission from Nepal's government. So they apply in 1971, but then they're told that there's no space for their expedition, and there won't be until 1975. So that would be upsetting. You have to wait four years to the average person. But they're not discouraged. They just figure it will give them more time to train. And Junko uses this long waiting period to help the group nail down sponsorships. But of course, finding financial support is tricky. As Junko puts it, quote, "Most companies' reaction that was for women, it's impossible to climb Mount Everest." No vision.
22:05 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
22:06 Karen Kilgariff? You're the, why aren't you the company that goes, "But if they do it..."
22:09 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
22:10 Karen Kilgariff? "...we'll all be..."
22:11 Georgia Hardstark? And even if they don't, they'll still get fucking average, like, eyes on the prize. Yeah.
22:16 Karen Kilgariff? We just have come, we truly have come a long way, baby.
22:18 Georgia Hardstark? In marketing?
22:19 Karen Kilgariff? Yes. And then we both smoke, because now it's the Virginia Slim Minute.
22:25 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, you're good, yeah.
22:27 Karen Kilgariff? Plus, in the early 70s, Japan experiences a years-long, oil-related economic crisis. There's just less sponsorship money to go around. Fortunately, the group locks down two sponsorships, one from a major Japanese newspaper and one from a TV station. But the budget's relatively small. The male groups often raise hundreds of thousands of dollars when they do their climbs, and they raise it in Japan and elsewhere. Junko's group only manages to raise about $70,000. So to pick up the slack, each member has to come up with an additional approximately $5,000 each. And it's 1.5 million yen that they have to come up with, and it's worth, do you want to guess, in today's money?
23:09 Georgia Hardstark? You said they have to come up with $5,000 in the 70s, which in today's money would be... Twenty-eight.
23:17 Karen Kilgariff? Thirty thousand.
23:18 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, shit.
23:20 Karen Kilgariff? So finally, 1975 rolls around. It's time for the women to head to Nepal. Years later, Outside magazine reporter Brad Frenette will ask Junko if she ever felt hesitation as the climb date approached. She says, quote, "No, I never thought of giving up once. We had worked so hard to obtain the climbing permit."
23:38 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
23:38 Karen Kilgariff? She got the paperwork.
23:39 Georgia Hardstark? No.
23:40 Karen Kilgariff? She's not going anywhere.
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24:10 Georgia Hardstark? There are plenty of things that keep you up at night. Your sleep tracker shouldn't be one of them.
24:14 Karen Kilgariff? You know that feeling, laying in bed, staring at the ceiling, counting all the times you said something weird.
24:19 Georgia Hardstark? And then you wake up and check your sleep score. Now you have to start your day knowing that you failed at sleeping.
24:25 Karen Kilgariff? Hatch Sleep Clock does it differently.
24:27 Georgia Hardstark? It tracks your sleep from your nightstand. No ring, wristband, or judgmental score waiting for you in the morning.
24:32 Karen Kilgariff? Instead, you'll get personalized insights to understand your sleep and recommendations to build a routine you'll love night after night.
24:39 Georgia Hardstark? Fall asleep to the next chapter of an audiobook like The Odyssey, a nervous system reset meditation, or a calming sound bath.
24:45 Karen Kilgariff? Then you can find out which gives you 20 more minutes of deep sleep each night.
24:49 Georgia Hardstark? Hatch Sleep Clock.
24:50 Karen Kilgariff? The sleep tracker designed to get you to sleep. Available now on hatch.co.
24:55 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye. The Hulu original series, Phony, is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+.
25:01 Karen Kilgariff? Sonny's life is pretty great, until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his with one exception: his mom.
25:09 Georgia Hardstark? To everyone else, she's the same Ellen they've known their whole lives, but for Sonny, he knows something is off.
25:14 Karen Kilgariff? As his relationship with his mother begins to crack in unsettling ways, he's forced to question what happens when the perfect mom becomes a perfect stranger.
25:22 Georgia Hardstark? Is this all in his head, or is there really an imposter in his house?
25:25 Karen Kilgariff? Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nivola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.
25:33 Georgia Hardstark? Watch the Hulu original series, Phony.
25:35 Karen Kilgariff? Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.
25:40 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
25:41 Karen Kilgariff? Sometimes being a little salty is completely justified.
25:44 Georgia Hardstark? Pair your salty side with something sweet with the new salted caramel flavor from Kachava.
25:49 Karen Kilgariff? Kachava is a whole body shake with plant-based protein, fiber, greens, and other nutrients to help fill nutritional gaps.
25:56 Georgia Hardstark? Just two scoops provide complete nutrition your body craves with protein, fiber, greens, and so much more.
26:02 Karen Kilgariff? Their new salted caramel flavor combines sweet caramel with a little salt, so you get that salty-sweet balance along with the nutrition Kachava is known for.
26:10 Georgia Hardstark? When the day demands your salty side, fuel it with plant-based protein that actually tastes delicious.
26:15 Karen Kilgariff? I really do love Kachava, and I really do think it does taste delicious for getting you through the morning, filling in the gap if you just need some protein and you need some vitamins. It's such a nice little treat.
26:26 Georgia Hardstark? It's such an easy way to get everything you need, and it tastes good, too, which is just huge bonus.
26:31 Karen Kilgariff? So embrace your salty side.
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26:41 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
26:43 Karen Kilgariff? So that's spring. The women set out. Junko is 35 at the time, and she serves as co-leader for the 15-woman expedition.
26:50 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
26:50 Karen Kilgariff? They're accompanied by six experienced Sherpa guides, and together they embark on the most difficult, grueling climb of their lives. Any Everest climb is punishing, and Junko's is no exception. But by May 3, 1975, her group has steadily made it more than 20,000 feet, and they have about 9,000 feet to go.
27:10 Georgia Hardstark? No.
27:10 Karen Kilgariff? Now, around this point, they encounter terrible weather, which is a reality climbers face, of course, as they go up Everest, especially the closer they get to the top. So these gals set up camp. They try to get some rest before continuing on, but it's not a lovely, you know, bucolic spot. It's freezing cold. They're in tents that are being whipped around by these terrible winds. Hours later, when they're sleeping, not long after midnight on May 4, Junko is awakened by an extremely loud, low rumble, and she instantly knows what it is. It's an avalanche barreling down the mountain.
27:48 Georgia Hardstark? I saw a video recently of an avalanche, and I, like...
27:53 Karen Kilgariff? No, no, no.
27:54 Georgia Hardstark? No.
27:54 Karen Kilgariff? No, no.
27:55 Georgia Hardstark? It's terrifying.
27:56 Karen Kilgariff? It's horrible. So before she can even react, Junko is swept up by a wall of snow and ice. She is tangled in her tent with the, some other climbers.
28:07 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God.
28:07 Karen Kilgariff? So they're tumbling down the mountain, getting knocked all over the place and against each other. And it's really violent and chaotic, of course. And then, once it ends, they're buried in the snow.
28:18 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
28:18 Karen Kilgariff? Still in the tent.
28:20 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
28:20 Karen Kilgariff? All wrapped up. When it all comes to a stop, Junko is in extreme pain. She worries she's gonna die. She then has a vision of her daughter Noriko playing outside their home back in Tokyo. And then she blacks out.
28:32 Georgia Hardstark? Jesus.
28:33 Karen Kilgariff? The next thing she remembers is the Sherpa guides pulling her out of the snow by her ankles.
28:39 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God.
28:39 Karen Kilgariff? Which actually would probably be pretty easy. Cause she's little.
28:42 Georgia Hardstark? She's so tiny.
28:43 Karen Kilgariff? Somehow miraculously, everyone survives the avalanche, which Junko credits to the experience and quick thinking of their Sherpas.
28:50 Georgia Hardstark? Sure.
28:51 Karen Kilgariff? Thank God. I mean, like, 15 women just... But they're not totally unscathed. Junko is battered and bruised, and her body is extremely sore. She has to rest for two days before she's even able to lift herself up.
29:04 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
29:04 Karen Kilgariff? Let alone keep climbing.
29:06 Georgia Hardstark? No, like, that would be the end of it.
29:08 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
29:08 Georgia Hardstark? You know, for me.
29:09 Karen Kilgariff? They'd be like, "Thanks so much." But she's...
29:11 Georgia Hardstark? "Thanks so much, but there was an avalanche."
29:13 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
29:14 Georgia Hardstark? "On me."
29:14 Karen Kilgariff? But she's like, "We got the permit."
29:16 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
29:16 Karen Kilgariff? "We're not leaving."
29:17 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
29:20 Karen Kilgariff? She, and actually, what she did say is, quote, "As soon as I knew everyone was alive, I was determined to continue."
29:25 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
29:26 Karen Kilgariff? The women continue working towards Everest's peak with Junko still at the helm. At times, her injuries are so bad, she has to crawl on her hands and knees.
29:35 Georgia Hardstark? What the fuck?
29:36 Karen Kilgariff? Mm-hmm.
29:37 Georgia Hardstark? I have no excuse. Like, I don't...
29:41 Karen Kilgariff? You get out to Griffith Park tomorrow?
29:43 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, I'm talking about, like, doing my laundry. I'm not even talking about hiking.
29:48 Karen Kilgariff? Just do it on your hands and knees.
29:49 Georgia Hardstark? I can't. I have no excuse not to do my laundry when this...
29:52 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, I know. I mean, I think there's some people born with this, like, brain chemistry that's like, up, up, up.
29:58 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:59 Karen Kilgariff? God bless them.
30:02 Karen Kilgariff? So she has to crawl on her hands and knees, but she just keeps going. And then 12 days later, the team reaches the final camp of their climb, which is just below Everest's peak. By this point, they are running low on oxygen. Originally, they'd planned to send two women up to the summit. Now they only have enough oxygen to send one. Wow. These women clearly love one another on this mountaineering team. No one wants to take the glory for themselves. But after they discuss it, the team decides Junko should be the one to make the final push to the top. Yeah. They're like, get on your hands and knees and you crawl up there. So now Junko realizes that to get to Everest's summit, she has to climb this skinny ridge of ice. We may have talked about it on your story, I can't remember.
30:46 Karen Kilgariff? It is just wide enough for a human body, a ridge of ice. There are 15,000-foot drops on either side. I remember that drop. Okay. Yeah. It's called the knife-edge ridge. Yeah. And it leads up to the Hillary step, which is like the final spot before you go, you're on the peak. Oh, my God. So it's named after Edmund Hillary. She's going to Hillary's step. That must be just like a moment for those climbers. Right. And then also for her, where it's like, I don't know if they're aware of it, but like, she's the first woman. Yeah. So it's like, a true moment. One wrong move here, though, would absolutely result in a fatal fall. It's all or nothing. Yeah. I didn't understand that, I think, until I read this story.
31:29 Karen Kilgariff? Junko, who's accompanied by a celebrated Sherpa guide named Ang Charing, now must crawl sideways while sort of hugging the ridge to make it to the Hillary step. She later says, quote, "I'd never felt that tense in my entire life. I felt all my hair standing on end. I had no idea I would have to face that, even though I'd read all the accounts of previous expeditions. I got so angry at the previous climbers who hadn't warned me about that knife-edge traverse in their expedition records. Isn't that so like men?" My heart just dropped thinking of doing that. Like crawling, hugging. Yeah. And she didn't know it was there.
32:09 Georgia Hardstark? She didn't.
32:09 Karen Kilgariff? No one said, hey, also, real quick.
32:12 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Things are scary.
32:13 Karen Kilgariff? No. But just after noon on May 16th, 1975, Junko Tabey reaches the summit of Mount Everest and becomes the first woman ever and the 36th person in history to do it. She's made it to the highest point on earth.
32:29 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
32:30 Karen Kilgariff? So 35 dudes.
32:31 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
32:32 Karen Kilgariff? Didn't tell the secret. Sucks. Later, when asked if she shouted or cried when she reached the summit, Junko simply says, quote, "I didn't shout anything. I just thought, oh, I don't have to climb anymore."
32:43 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
32:44 Karen Kilgariff? We love her.
32:46 Georgia Hardstark? You've got to save your energy.
32:47 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. Word of Junko's historic summit spreads quickly and becomes a celebratory moment around the world. The king of Nepal even reaches out and awards medals of honor to Junko and the rest of the women in her climbing team.
33:00 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
33:02 Karen Kilgariff? Back in Japan, any naysayers the women may encounter are overshadowed by a wall of glowing media coverage. They're profiled in newspapers, covered in countless news reports, they become the subject of a TV mini-series, and they're memorialized in textbooks. Junko, of course, draws a particular amount of interest from the public, and not just because of her historic summit, she's also celebrated for her humble leadership and her devotion to her teammates, and for how she never once gave up despite her injuries from being in that avalanche. Junko doesn't exactly love being in the spotlight, though, and she knows she could capitalize off of all this media interest, and that would certainly help pay for future climbs, she chooses to decline all corporate sponsorships.
33:46 Karen Kilgariff? And she does this because, quote, "If I accept a sponsorship, then climbing the mountain is not my own experience. It's like working for the company."
33:55 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
33:55 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. Instead, Junko supports herself by continuing to teach music and English, but also working as a hiking guide, writing books and giving speeches. In those speeches, she encourages others to chase their dreams, even if it means defying social norms. Junko tells crowds to, quote, "be the nail that sticks out."
34:16 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
34:17 Karen Kilgariff? Be the nail that sticks out.
34:18 Georgia Hardstark? Love it. That's what you said to me. Well, then I'm going to use it against you. Fuck, yeah.
34:22 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, turn it around.
34:23 Georgia Hardstark? Hell, yeah.
34:24 Karen Kilgariff? Junko spends the rest of her life doing exactly what she loves, which of course is climbing. In 1992, at 53 years old, she completes another historic first. Junko becomes the very first woman to complete the Seven Summits, which are the highest mountains on each continent.
34:40 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
34:41 Karen Kilgariff? These include Denali, Kilimanjaro and Mount Vinsen in Antarctica.
34:45 Georgia Hardstark? What if that was your mom? Like, how inspiring would that be?
34:49 Karen Kilgariff? You keep coming home with a bag of laundry and you're like, hello, is any, no one?
34:53 Georgia Hardstark? No one. Okay. I mean, like, inspire, inspiration wise, where it's like, oh, my mom's fifty something, like, I should probably, like,
35:01 Karen Kilgariff? Do something?
35:01 Georgia Hardstark? Be like her.
35:02 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, exactly. Over the years, Junko becomes more and more interested in the environmental toll of modern climbing, especially on Everest. And by the 1990s, there's a shift towards high-budget commercial expeditions, which are often taken by wealthy climbers who outsource much of the heavy lifting to guides and Sherpas.
35:20 Georgia Hardstark? Right. It's like luxury hiking.
35:23 Karen Kilgariff? Yes. And Junko's very critical of luxury hiking, calling them, quote, "intensive care unit climbers."
35:30 Georgia Hardstark? Wow, that's...
35:32 Karen Kilgariff? Because of all the critical support they have along the way. But what troubles her the most is all of the damage caused by the increased foot traffic and trash left behind on Everest, which is a problem that's only gotten worse over the years. Oh, sorry. I thought I was in a quote that whole time, but it was just intensive care unit climbers was just her little quote.
35:53 Georgia Hardstark? That's a barbed thing to say.
35:55 Karen Kilgariff? But it's true. It's like you're creating, you're not trained. You're not serious about it, truly. And then when you get up there, they have to helicopter you out.
36:03 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
36:04 Karen Kilgariff? That's what happened when I went skiing for the first time. So to do what she can to protect her beloved mountains, Junko not only studies the impacts of trash on mountain landscapes, but she also starts organizing cleanup trips, both in Japan and abroad.
36:17 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
36:18 Karen Kilgariff? Her husband and children often join her on these trips, and along the way, she never stops uplifting other women. By 2005, Junko has participated in 44 all-female climbs.
36:29 Georgia Hardstark? Holy shit.
36:30 Karen Kilgariff? But really, she's interested in cultivating young mountaineers. So she starts leading yearly expeditions to Mount Fuji with Japanese high schoolers, and she climbs with them every year, even after she's diagnosed with stomach cancer in 2012.
36:45 Georgia Hardstark? 2012, wow.
36:46 Karen Kilgariff? Yes. So even as Junko battles cancer, she continues taking trips to Mount Fuji. But in 2016, for the first time, she has to stop halfway up the climb.
36:57 Georgia Hardstark? Mmm.
36:58 Karen Kilgariff? And she passes away a few months later, in October, at the age of 77.
37:03 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
37:04 Karen Kilgariff? So she basically started climbing mountains as a child and never stopped.
37:08 Georgia Hardstark? That's so inspiring.
37:10 Karen Kilgariff? I know. Today, Junko Tabei is remembered for her endless courage, relentless environmental advocacy, and dedication to uplifting fellow adventurers, especially women, and of course, the many climbs she completed. Throughout her amazing life, she summited at least 70 mountains across the globe. And in doing so, she proved wrong those who doubted her and helped change the pervasive image of what a mountaineer looks like. Shortly before Junko's death in 2017, she was asked what she would say to her younger self if she had the opportunity. She responded with advice that we could all stand to hear. Junko said, quote, "Do not give up. Keep on your quest."
37:50 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
37:50 Karen Kilgariff? And that's the story of trailblazing Japanese mountaineer Junko Tabei.
37:55 Georgia Hardstark? Holy shit. Man, maybe I'll start hiking again.
38:02 Karen Kilgariff? You could just do flat, flat hikes.
38:03 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
38:04 Karen Kilgariff? You know, to start.
38:05 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Is that still a hike or is that just walking?
38:07 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, I think it's, you can use whatever word you want.
38:10 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
38:10 Karen Kilgariff? They can't prove it wasn't a hike.
38:12 Georgia Hardstark? Right. There's a slight incline.
38:14 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, it still counts. Also, the thing I really like and the message of this, Junko's message, but then like the way she lived her life. I was, of course, watching this TikTok this morning where they're like, how do we dismantle the patriarchy? How would women do that? And it's just this idea of like, you don't stay quiet. You don't fall prey to these cultural restrictions or norms of women are like this or women are supposed to do this. You make your own money. You make your own business. You don't give up, even when things are hard or even when people say shit about you. It's like, you just keep going and you just keep doing the thing you want to do and let them talk.
38:54 Georgia Hardstark? Right. Like, you don't have to debate them at all. You don't have to argue with them online. You don't have to like engage. Just keep doing what you're doing.
39:01 Karen Kilgariff? Because doing it is the example for the next generation. You, we have to show women, young women, what's possible and then they can do it. Then everyone's just doing it for each other.
39:14 Georgia Hardstark? Podcasting. That's our, that's what we're showing them.
39:16 Karen Kilgariff? Podcasting? Podcasting is the same as mountaineering. This is stolen valor.
39:21 Georgia Hardstark? We're showing young ladies.
39:25 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, and I'm proud of it.
39:26 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, I am too. Well, that's a solo story.
39:29 Georgia Hardstark? Great job. That was definitely one for the books.
39:32 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, thank you.
39:33 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you guys so much for listening.
39:35 Karen Kilgariff? Do not give up.
39:36 Georgia Hardstark? Nope.
39:36 Karen Kilgariff? Keep on your quest.
39:37 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
39:38 Karen Kilgariff? Stay sexy.
39:39 Georgia Hardstark? And don't get murdered.
39:40 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
39:42 Georgia Hardstark? Elvis, do you want a cookie?
39:50 Georgia Hardstark? This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes. Our editor is Aristotle Lassaveto. This episode was mixed by Liana Scolacci. Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ally Elkin. Email your hometowns to [email protected] . And follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder. Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix. And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the remind me buttons. That's the best way you can support our show. Goodbye.
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40:56 Georgia Hardstark? You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium. Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray. Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals, it's designed to relax and prepare you for a night of rest. If you need a reset after your day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine. Generously spritz each foot before bed, and you'll be all set. I've actually started doing this, and I'm obsessed with magnesium. It does everything. Something like this is just like, it's simple, it's easy, and it actually works. Totally. For wellness you can feel, find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle. Goodbye.
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41:54 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
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Previous Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 90: Peak Experience Next MFM Minisode 482 Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated