Pod Insights My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark 521 - I Can Count to Solo About this episode In honor of Black History Month, Georgia covers two war heroes who served in the 92nd Infantry, Lieutenant Vernon Baker and Lieutenant John R. Fox.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Karen Kilgariff? This is exactly right.
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0:36 Georgia Hardstark? Everyone loves the idea of spending an afternoon curled up with a good book.
0:40 Karen Kilgariff? Well, grow up, because it's almost impossible.
0:42 Georgia Hardstark? Luckily, you can take your next great story with you on Audible.
0:45 Karen Kilgariff? Audible has a massive selection of titles to choose from, including This American Life, new books by Michael Connelly, along with classics from Magathah Christie, and so much more.
0:54 Georgia Hardstark? Whether you want a mystery, a true crime story, or something completely different, there's always something new to listen to.
1:00 Karen Kilgariff? New members can start listening with a 30-day free trial at audible.com/mfm.
1:04 Georgia Hardstark? Audible, stories that speak to you.
1:06 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
1:25 Georgia Hardstark? Hello and welcome.
1:27 Karen Kilgariff? To My Favorite Murder.
1:28 Georgia Hardstark? That's Georgia Hardstark.
1:29 Karen Kilgariff? That's Karen Kilgariff. And we're going to do a solo episode for you.
1:33 Georgia Hardstark? We each do a story just for you.
1:35 Karen Kilgariff? No, no, solo episode, right?
1:37 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, right, where one of us does a story.
1:40 Karen Kilgariff? One at a time.
1:42 Georgia Hardstark? Solo. I know, but I can count to solo.
1:45 Karen Kilgariff? You can, and you have in the past.
1:47 Georgia Hardstark? I know. And I think as a gift, not a gift, as a bonus for solos, let's do one beauty product that we both love.
1:55 Karen Kilgariff? What's funny about this is, so, and we've complained about this before on this podcast, we now have to worry about our makeup and how we look before we record.
2:04 Georgia Hardstark? So real bitch.
2:05 Karen Kilgariff? I don't like it, and I don't make enough time for it.
2:08 Georgia Hardstark? You look great.
2:09 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, thank you.
2:09 Georgia Hardstark? Your makeup looks great.
2:10 Karen Kilgariff? Today, when I went to put makeup on... My makeup bag was not in my purse.
2:15 Georgia Hardstark? No.
2:16 Karen Kilgariff? So, of course, we've gotten it down. I'm sure you're like, I have gotten it down to like, this, this is the-
2:21 Georgia Hardstark? I have a, I can do it in 10 minutes, or I can do it in an hour, and it'll look the fucking same.
2:26 Karen Kilgariff? It'll look the same, and it'll stick on, right? I'm trying to get like, the primers and the grippers, because it just all comes off my face.
2:33 Georgia Hardstark? And then you have, you have to have the before and afters nowadays, just to like, fucking get it to stick.
2:38 Karen Kilgariff? So, what a day to talk about the things I really need, because I, all of this was at the bottom of a filing cabinet that I had thrown in there, like, an emergency bag.
2:47 Georgia Hardstark? Nice.
2:49 Karen Kilgariff? So, um-
2:50 Georgia Hardstark? It's working, honestly.
2:51 Karen Kilgariff? Thank you.
2:51 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
2:52 Karen Kilgariff? Thank you.
2:52 Georgia Hardstark? The colors are working, so I wonder, like, whatever that lipstick is that you threw in your, like, some other time.
2:56 Karen Kilgariff? I don't, here's the thing, I don't even know what it is. It, it was a thing at the bottom, where I was like, that looks like a good color-
3:02 Georgia Hardstark? It is.
3:03 Karen Kilgariff? -for camera.
3:03 Georgia Hardstark? It's working.
3:04 Karen Kilgariff? Yay, okay, I'll put that right at the top.
3:06 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
3:07 Karen Kilgariff? But you go, because obviously, something inspired you, right?
3:10 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, well, my hair, I'm doing my hair, instead of my makeup, even though we just talked about the makeup.
3:15 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, yeah.
3:15 Georgia Hardstark? Because this one thing I've been using has, like, really changed things up for me, and it's like, one of those things where, you know, TikTokers are always like, here are my empties of the month, and I am just like, so inconsistent that I never have empties. Do you?
3:28 Karen Kilgariff? Yes. Well, I started long ago, when we're like, I'm gonna do a Korean skincare recommendation video, which I will do for the fan cult, I promise.
3:36 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
3:37 Karen Kilgariff? But I started keeping empties.
3:38 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
3:39 Karen Kilgariff? And so they're, that same-
3:40 Georgia Hardstark? Now we have to fucking keep our empty fucking on. Like, can we just please? Why does everything have to be content? Okay, so, mine is-
3:48 Karen Kilgariff? It's what we signed up for.
3:49 Georgia Hardstark? I know, and this is literally what I'm doing right now. Okay, I put in my, like, regular leaving conditioner, the K19 stuff. Um, and, but I blow dry my hair every time I shower, which is somewhat frequently.
4:01 Karen Kilgariff? Not at the same time.
4:02 Georgia Hardstark? No.
4:05 Georgia Hardstark? So then I have to now put on the Bumble and Bumble Heat Shield Spray.
4:10 Karen Kilgariff? Yep.
4:10 Georgia Hardstark? Because it has changed the way my hair looks post blow dry and straightener and any kind of heat.
4:18 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
4:18 Georgia Hardstark? And my, even my hairstylist was like, your color's staying longer because of it.
4:23 Karen Kilgariff? Cause you, you found a product.
4:24 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, the Heat Shield, Bumble and Bumble.
4:26 Karen Kilgariff? Nice, okay.
4:27 Georgia Hardstark? I'm a big fan.
4:28 Karen Kilgariff? I just.
4:29 Georgia Hardstark? I have empties, which never happens to me.
4:31 Karen Kilgariff? That's exciting. Cause then you know, it's like it's working and you're using it.
4:34 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
4:34 Karen Kilgariff? Well, then if I were to do a hair one.
4:37 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
4:37 Karen Kilgariff? I started, did you, have you seen any of that, any of those videos that are like, you can find, figure out what type of hair you have. So it's like, I think I have A3, which is wavy and a little bit curly, but mostly wavy.
4:50 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
4:51 Karen Kilgariff? And you can go through and they basically tell you, you find your kind of hair.
4:55 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
4:55 Karen Kilgariff? And then they're like, this is what you should use and not use.
4:57 Georgia Hardstark? Is this AI?
5:00 Karen Kilgariff? It's AI drawn as like third grade coloring panels to teach you math or whatever.
5:05 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
5:06 Karen Kilgariff? That's what it kind of looked like, the last one I looked at. So anyhow, I figured out I put too much protein in my hair. It makes it dry. So if you're spraying in leave in conditioner.
5:16 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
5:16 Karen Kilgariff? And you find that you're getting dry ends.
5:19 Georgia Hardstark? I am.
5:20 Karen Kilgariff? Watch out for the, the K19. I don't know, K19 might be keratin.
5:25 Georgia Hardstark? I don't fucking know.
5:26 Karen Kilgariff? Watch out for the protein.
5:27 Georgia Hardstark? I didn't even know there was protein in fucking hair products.
5:30 Karen Kilgariff? Dude.
5:30 Georgia Hardstark? Protein.
5:31 Karen Kilgariff? And also every, you have to like figure out that I'm an A3, that's, I have to use this thing over here where it kind of does work though.
5:37 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, I'm sure.
5:39 Karen Kilgariff? So I will give you my, I love necessaire, um, rosemary shampoo and conditioner. Have you used it?
5:46 Georgia Hardstark? No. But rose, I know rosemary shampoo is great. Yeah.
5:49 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, it's good for growing your hair and stuff. And then that brand, although it sounds fancy, is totally affordable. You can get it at Ulta or wherever. It just smells really good and it's the most like, so. I was gonna say foamy. What am I looking for?
6:03 Georgia Hardstark? Sudsy.
6:03 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, yeah. The Suds. It gives you like ton- it feels like it's cleaning your hair double.
6:08 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
6:09 Karen Kilgariff? And it's great.
6:09 Georgia Hardstark? Okay. Why is it called Necessary?
6:11 Karen Kilgariff? Necessary Rosemary. I think it's rosemary, mint shampoo and conditioner.
6:15 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
6:16 Karen Kilgariff? Dark green bottle.
6:17 Georgia Hardstark? Perfect.
6:17 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
6:18 Georgia Hardstark? Love it.
6:18 Karen Kilgariff? And we love you to give us free products if you want to, friends, friends who's-
6:24 Georgia Hardstark? Always. So now we'll just do solo and we'll say what we want and then hopefully the products will listen.
6:29 Karen Kilgariff? We like stuff and we're gonna say it.
6:31 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, okay. All right, so I'm first and only?
6:33 Karen Kilgariff? First and only, it's a solo.
6:35 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, this is my solo.
6:36 Karen Kilgariff? Good luck.
6:37 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you. See you later.
6:38 Karen Kilgariff? Mm-hmm.
6:39 Georgia Hardstark? Bye.
6:39 Karen Kilgariff? Bye.
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9:12 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
9:15 Georgia Hardstark? Today, I'm going to tell you a story about heroism. Heroism? Heroism. Heroism?
9:23 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, heroism. I think people say heroism.
9:26 Georgia Hardstark? Heroism.
9:27 Karen Kilgariff? Heroism.
9:28 Georgia Hardstark? That's it. I knew it was wrong. Heroism. That's it.
9:31 Karen Kilgariff? But why do we do that when it's hero?
9:33 Georgia Hardstark? Heroism.
9:34 Karen Kilgariff? Heroism. It should be heroism.
9:36 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
9:36 Karen Kilgariff? But it's heroism.
9:37 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, stop. This is a serious one.
9:38 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, you're right.
9:40 Georgia Hardstark? Heroism.
9:40 Karen Kilgariff? Heroism.
9:41 Georgia Hardstark? In the face of racism.
9:44 Karen Kilgariff? That's, we need more of that.
9:45 Georgia Hardstark? Yes. The Medal of Honor is the United States' highest military decoration, as you know well, Karen.
9:50 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, I talk about it a lot.
9:51 Georgia Hardstark? All of the time. And it's awarded for special acts of valor. So here's a little shitty fact. Black soldiers had been awarded the Medal of Honor for wars before and after World War II, but due to the racist Jim Crow era policies around the time of World War II, in particular, zero black soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor for service in World War II until about 50 years after the war ended. So World War I, the Korean, Vietnam, but World War II is just sitting there.
10:22 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, honorless.
10:23 Karen Kilgariff? Erased.
10:24 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. So today I'm going to tell you about two Black War heroes. One who was alive to receive his medal 50 years later, while the other died in combat. Both fought bravely in an army that was still operating under racist policies, defending a country that was, in so many ways, hostile to them.
10:41 Karen Kilgariff? Mm hmm.
10:42 Georgia Hardstark? This is the story of World War II heroes Vernon Baker and John Fox.
10:46 Karen Kilgariff? Amazing.
10:46 Georgia Hardstark? It's a lot of heroism.
10:48 Karen Kilgariff? Great.
10:48 Georgia Hardstark? There's a lot of heroism.
10:49 Karen Kilgariff? We need that these days. We need some examples.
10:51 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. So the main sources I used in the story were Vernon Baker's obituary from the Spokesman Review by Ken Olson and an episode of the Black is American podcast, and a book called Braided in Fire: Black GIs and Tuscan Villagers on the Gothic Line.
11:06 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
11:07 Georgia Hardstark? In 1944 by Solace Wales.
11:09 Karen Kilgariff? I want to read that book.
11:11 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. I'm going to be honest with you. I did not know that there was a Gothic line and what that was in World War II.
11:16 Karen Kilgariff? Do you know now?
11:17 Georgia Hardstark? I do know now because of this story, but like, I do know a good amount of stuff about World War II. It's like one of my
11:22 Karen Kilgariff? Interests?
11:23 Georgia Hardstark? Interests. Couldn't have told you anything about Italy and its role in it. Like, Italy is not my focus.
11:28 Karen Kilgariff? Tuscany's in the middle.
11:29 Georgia Hardstark? I know, but like, Italy's role in World War II.
11:31 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, right, right.
11:32 Georgia Hardstark? You know, there's Mussolini, but then I'm like back in Germany. Obviously, it pertains to me a little bit more. So it was really interesting. Anyways, the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes.
11:40 Karen Kilgariff? Can I just ask, are you going to tell me what the Gothic line is later?
11:43 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, we're gonna, yeah.
11:44 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, great, great.
11:45 Georgia Hardstark? We're gonna go there, so it's gonna.
11:46 Karen Kilgariff? Perfect.
11:47 Georgia Hardstark? So here we are. It's 1996, and 76-year-old Vernon Baker receives a phone call from a professor of military history at Shaw University. Like many men his age, Vernon is a World War II veteran. The professor tells Vernon that he's leading an investigation into why no black soldiers had been awarded the Medal of Honor for their service in the Second World War.
12:07 Karen Kilgariff? Hmm.
12:08 Georgia Hardstark? Black soldiers had been awarded the Medal for Wars Before and After, as I said, but the hypothesis is, because it was directly during Jim Crow era, it just
12:18 Karen Kilgariff? Their service was erased.
12:19 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, exactly. And contributions of black soldiers was ignored for decades.
12:23 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
12:24 Georgia Hardstark? Vernon doesn't think much will come of this phone call. There have been some efforts in the past to nominate him for the Medal of Honor, but those efforts haven't come to fruition. But he talks to the man on the phone, and they go over the details of Vernon's life and military service, even so. Let's go over that.
12:39 Karen Kilgariff? Hmm.
12:39 Georgia Hardstark? Vernon is born in 1919 and he's orphaned at age four when his parents die in a car accident.
12:44 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
12:45 Georgia Hardstark? It's like James and the Giant Peach.
12:46 Karen Kilgariff? I know.
12:46 Georgia Hardstark? So sad. He and his two sisters are raised in Cheyenne, Wyoming by their grandparents. And Vernon has a good relationship with his grandfather who teaches him how to hunt. And eventually he's sent to live at Father Flanagan's Boys Town in Nebraska.
13:00 Karen Kilgariff? Mm hmm.
13:01 Georgia Hardstark? You know of it?
13:01 Karen Kilgariff? My dad used to reference it all the time.
13:03 Georgia Hardstark? Really?
13:05 Karen Kilgariff? There's like a famous movie.
13:07 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
13:07 Karen Kilgariff? That somebody was in and, you know.
13:09 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, it's one of your dad's favorite.
13:11 Karen Kilgariff? It's like you're, we're gonna send you to Boys Town type of thing.
13:15 Georgia Hardstark? Well, actually, as orphanages go, Boys Town looks like it was better than most. I'm reading The Reformatory by Tannen R V Dew, and that is not a good place.
13:25 Karen Kilgariff? What is it?
13:26 Georgia Hardstark? It's like a historical fiction about a reformatory or a boy, like a, you know, juvenile school in the South.
13:32 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, got it.
13:33 Georgia Hardstark? It's just harrowing. But Flanagan's Boys Town, Father Flanagan's Boys Town, your father will be disappointed to know, was actually better than most. Doesn't mean it was good. It took in boys of all races and religions and emphasized physical well-being. It was considered a pioneer in the field of child welfare. So take that home, Jim.
13:53 Karen Kilgariff? Home Jim will be like pioneer of child welfare.
13:56 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
13:56 Karen Kilgariff? At a time where it was like, we get to beat you freely and you'll shut your mouth.
14:00 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
14:01 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. Have you seen that TikTok trend where the little kids are supposed to finish the phrase and the parents go like, I brought you into this world? And it's like.
14:08 Georgia Hardstark? Because I love you.
14:09 Karen Kilgariff? I know. Just like.
14:11 Georgia Hardstark? Oh.
14:12 Karen Kilgariff? It wasn't that long ago.
14:13 Georgia Hardstark? So after high school, Vernon looks for a job and winds up working as a railroad porter, which he hates and is unhappy with his career prospects. So his sister suggests he join the army. The first time he walks into the recruitment office, he's met with a racist sergeant who simply says to him that the army doesn't have any need for, quote, "you people." And so he walks out. Burden says, quote, "That kind of turned me off," end quote. So he tries for another three months to find a job, still not finding anything he's interested in. He returns to the recruitment office in June of 1941. This time, a different sergeant takes down his information. In the 1940s, the Army is still operating under Jim Crow era guidelines that generally exclude black soldiers from combat roles.
14:57 Georgia Hardstark? In 1925, the Army War College produces a racist document. It was in use for training officers up to World War II. It serves as a blueprint for segregating the military and specifically calls for black soldiers to be supervised by white officers. It also makes all sorts of racist remarks about the nature of black soldiers as opposed to white ones. Due to those racist policies, the Army is reluctant to send black soldiers directly into combat. They eventually reinstate the all-black 92nd Infantry when they're facing a shortage of manpower. This infantry is known as the Buffalo Soldiers, a name given to the segregated regiments dating back to the 1860s, when all-black regiments were sent to fight the Native Americans in the effort to steal their land.
15:40 Karen Kilgariff? Did you know that? Buffalo Soldiers. I mean, I've heard of Buffalo Soldiers and I knew that, but I didn't know that specifically. But it's like, it gives so much context to like what Muhammad Ali said during the Vietnam War, which is like, "We're not going to go fight your war from a country where you treat us this terribly."
15:57 Georgia Hardstark? Second-class citizens.
15:58 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, insane.
15:59 Georgia Hardstark? When the 92nd Infantry arrives in Italy for World War II, it receives a hostile welcome. General Edmund Almond, the white brigadier general in charge, tells the black junior officers, he says, "My, quote, 'white friends have insisted on your seeing combat, and I shall see that you get combat and your share of casualties.'"
16:19 Karen Kilgariff? Sorry, this is their own side that they're landing and talking to, that are talking to them like that?
16:26 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, "Now go fight for us."
16:27 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, "Good luck in war."
16:29 Georgia Hardstark? Right. After basic training, Vernon is assigned to the 92nd Infantry. He completes Officer Candidate School, becomes a Second Lieutenant at the age of 23 in 1943. A Second Lieutenant oversees a platoon, which includes between 18 and 50 soldiers. He reports to a First Lieutenant. Vernon is the only black officer in his company, and he's met with, of course, resentment from soldiers for this. He's also met with flat-out racism. He's not allowed to use the front entrance of the Officers' Club, but German prisoners of war are.
17:01 Karen Kilgariff? Well, that's the white supremacy inherent in all of it.
17:05 Georgia Hardstark? On the trip overseas, Vernon bonds with the men he's in charge of, saying, quote, "I became the father to my platoon, the men. We got to know each other. Most of them couldn't read or write, and I read their letters, and I wrote letters home for them, and we became quite close." So basically, in spring of 1945, Vernon's regiment is trying to break through what's called the Gothic Line.
17:25 Karen Kilgariff? Okay.
17:26 Georgia Hardstark? Great name for a band.
17:27 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
17:28 Georgia Hardstark? Right? I mean, in the 90s, not now.
17:31 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, it's too late now.
17:32 Georgia Hardstark? It's way too late. The Gothic Line is a chain of mountain strongholds being used by the Germans that stretches across the width of northern Italy.
17:40 Karen Kilgariff? Okay.
17:40 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you to my researcher, Ally, for putting that in there.
17:43 Karen Kilgariff? Great work, once again.
17:44 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Vernon and his fellow soldiers are mostly focused on trying to gain control of a 15th century castle on top of a mountain about 30 miles north of Pisa. Can you imagine combat and fighting in the most gorgeous historical place you've ever been in your life? Like, you're from the US where everything is brand fucking new.
18:05 Karen Kilgariff? You're from New Jersey, and you're here, like, among ruins?
18:07 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, yeah. So on April 5th, 1945, Vernon and his platoon navigate barbed wire and minefields to get within sight of the castle and hide in some terraced olive groves on the hillside beneath it. On his own, Vernon takes out three machine gun nests, two observation posts, and two bunkers. He also destroys telephone lines the Germans are using. By then, the Germans know that they're there, and Vernon's platoon takes on heavy fire from machine guns and mortars. Vernon's white company commander, fucking skedaddles, gets the hell out of there, saying he's going for reinforcements, BRB, and just bails.
18:46 Karen Kilgariff? Holy shit.
18:47 Georgia Hardstark? Then you know what he does? He reports back that the whole platoon is dead.
18:52 Karen Kilgariff? And just like leaves them there.
18:53 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. So not even like, I got out of there. They're still there. Let's save them. Yeah.
18:58 Karen Kilgariff? Holy shit.
18:59 Georgia Hardstark? It's like, I left. I can't say it's because I'm a coward. So I'm just going to tell you it's because everyone's dead.
19:05 Karen Kilgariff? And how many people are still alive?
19:07 Georgia Hardstark? We'll get to that.
19:08 Karen Kilgariff? Okay.
19:08 Georgia Hardstark? Vernon continues to radio for help, but American officers don't believe him when he reports his position because it's so far behind enemy lines that they can't believe it that they made it that far. Like, that's how good the platoon is.
19:20 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, well, what else could it be?
19:21 Georgia Hardstark? I know. JK? Like, is this a trick by the Germans?
19:25 Karen Kilgariff? Jesus Christ.
19:25 Georgia Hardstark? No.
19:26 Karen Kilgariff? No, seriously, please help me. No, seriously.
19:28 Georgia Hardstark? Please don't use this line.
19:29 Karen Kilgariff? Kids, get off this line. Dinner's in 20 minutes.
19:33 Georgia Hardstark? The platoon fights on, eventually losing 19 out of 25 men.
19:38 Karen Kilgariff? So 25 men are stranded.
19:40 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. And they lose 19 of them because of this. Vernon and the survivors withdraw, but it turns out they've done enough to capture the castle. The next day, he's ordered to lead an all-white company back to the castle. Oh, they need him now.
19:54 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
19:55 Georgia Hardstark? And because of Vernon's efforts the day before, they're able to reach it without any shots being fired. And then, of course, in May of 1945, Germany surrenders and the war in Europe ends a month later. So Vernon does earn the Distinguished Service Cross. He also earns the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, and the Italian Cross of Valor of War, and the Polish Cross of Valor, making him the most highly decorated black soldier in the Mediterranean theater.
20:19 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
20:20 Georgia Hardstark? But his being nominated for the Medal of Honor, the highest award, would have depended on the cooperation of the same white officers who skedaddled and constantly treated him and the other black soldiers with hostility.
20:31 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
20:32 Georgia Hardstark? So it just didn't happen for anyone.
20:34 Karen Kilgariff? Right. It wouldn't even be considered.
20:36 Georgia Hardstark? Right, exactly. So back in America, after the war, Vernon meets a woman named Fern Brown. They have three children, and he continues his military career and becomes an army parachutist, serving in the Korean War.
20:49 Karen Kilgariff? Geez, he went back to fight for this country after that.
20:53 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, when it was still, well, it's never not been. He retires from the military in 1968 and spends 20 more years working for the American Red Cross. His wife Vern dies in 1986 and Vernon moves to northern Idaho. Three years later, he meets a German tourist at an airport in Spokane named Heidi Pollak. And they wind up getting married and they both are aware of the irony.
21:18 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
21:19 Georgia Hardstark? Of the fact that he basically is like marrying the enemy.
21:22 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, that's crazy.
21:24 Georgia Hardstark? But they're in love.
21:24 Karen Kilgariff? He's like, actually, I was in another war, so you're not the enemy.
21:27 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
21:28 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
21:28 Georgia Hardstark? We're all enemies. Okay.
21:29 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
21:30 Georgia Hardstark? About 10 years later, when Vernon is in his 70s, he receives the call from Shaw University that we started with. That does result in him being awarded the Medal of Honor finally. When asked if he had given up hope of ever getting the medal, Vernon says, quote, "I never thought about getting it."
21:44 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
21:45 Georgia Hardstark? At all, you know, up here.
21:46 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
21:46 Georgia Hardstark? End quote. Vernon receives his Medal of Honor on January of 1997 from President Bill Clinton. He dies of cancer in 2010 at the age of 90. He wound up being one of seven black soldiers who were awarded the Medal of Honor for their service in World War II, 50 freaking years later.
22:03 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
22:03 Georgia Hardstark? But he was the only one who was alive to receive his medal. Some of the others died after the war and some died in combat. So let's talk about one of those other six soldiers. Lieutenant John R. Fox, who did die heroically in combat. So John is born in 1915 in Cincinnati, Ohio. The oldest of three children, he attends Ohio State University, but then transfers to Wilberforce University and its ROTC program. At the time, Wilberforce is one of a handful of schools that allows black students into the ROTC. What does ROTC stand for? It's a regiment of sort of, but. Can you tell me, Molly? It's Reserve Officers Training Corps. Thank you. Reserve Officers Training Corps.
22:48 Karen Kilgariff? You were close.
22:48 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. So close, so close. At Wilberforce, which is a historically black university, John is mentored by a black World War I hero, a man named Captain Aaron Fisher.
22:59 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
23:00 Georgia Hardstark? So Fisher had been awarded the Distinguished Service Cross and the Purple Heart. During the war, World War I, he and his men were manning a trench which was invaded by Germans and they stood their ground and Fisher was badly wounded in the process. But because they didn't abandon their position, reinforcements were able to come and fight off the Germans holding their trench. Like, so if they had retreated because they were being attacked.
23:24 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
23:24 Georgia Hardstark? It would have been for naught.
23:25 Karen Kilgariff? It would have all been bad. And I don't know if you saw, is it 1917, that movie that, or?
23:31 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
23:31 Karen Kilgariff? World War I movie that was so good from a couple of years ago.
23:34 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
23:35 Karen Kilgariff? Trench warfare.
23:36 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God.
23:37 Karen Kilgariff? I don't want to say it's one of my fears because I don't think it'll ever happen, really. That idea of just like sudden, you're, they're just right there. You have to like fight and kill each other.
23:45 Georgia Hardstark? But also like just the conditions when you're not fighting are worse than anything we'll ever experience in our lives.
23:52 Karen Kilgariff? For real, pray God.
23:53 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, yeah. So John R. Fox graduates and joins the Army in 1941 as a second lieutenant, one of very few black officers at the time. Now 26, he's stationed at Fort Devens near Brockton, Massachusetts. He's also part of the 92nd Infantry, that segregated infantry that Vernon served in. In Massachusetts, John meets his future wife, Arlene, which bring that name back, right?
24:18 Karen Kilgariff? And Fern.
24:19 Georgia Hardstark? Fern and Arlene.
24:20 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
24:20 Georgia Hardstark? The two great, two great lady names.
24:23 Karen Kilgariff? Great ladies that you can actually, you can tell what they're like already.
24:26 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
24:27 Karen Kilgariff? Fern's kind of quiet and pretty.
24:28 Georgia Hardstark? Arlene is like staunch and you don't mess with her.
24:30 Karen Kilgariff? She will serve you some pie at the diner.
24:33 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, I have, I have a second aunt, Arlene. Whatever, who cares?
24:37 Karen Kilgariff? I do.
24:38 Georgia Hardstark? She's 22 at the time. They both enjoy riding horses and they first meet at a stable in Boston. They hit it off right away. They go on lots of dates, they go riding, they go on walks. John meets Arlene's family and they love him immediately. Arlene says, quote, "He could ingratiate himself anywhere. He was just honest and outgoing and funny." John and Arlene get engaged and start planning a big wedding, but the attack on Pearl Harbor in December of 1941 just has to move up everyone's timeline.
25:07 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
25:08 Georgia Hardstark? John insists that he and Arlene get married before he leaves, and Arlene gets pregnant three months after the wedding and goes into labor in December of 1942 in a snowstorm. John leaves her laboring in the house, treks out into knee-deep snow, and comes back bringing a fellow soldier who has a tractor with a snowplow. And so John drives Arlene to the hospital, following behind the plow.
25:32 Karen Kilgariff? Amazing.
25:33 Georgia Hardstark? So he's clearly very, like, um, what's the word?
25:36 Karen Kilgariff? Inventive, industrious.
25:37 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
25:37 Karen Kilgariff? He'll make it happen.
25:38 Georgia Hardstark? Yes, exactly. She gives birth to a daughter who they name Sandra. The family is together for about a year before John ships out. Arlene says, quote, "In that year, we lived a lifetime of loving and caring. He was so proud of that child. We had some good times." I already told you, spoiler alert, that he dies in combat. So that's her saying that, like, I'm so lucky to have had the time I had with this person, and that's how loving he was, is like...
26:06 Karen Kilgariff? And that was the plan. Like, he's like, "We get married now, not when I come back."
26:09 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
26:10 Karen Kilgariff? "And we get this going now."
26:11 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
26:12 Karen Kilgariff? Beautiful.
26:13 Georgia Hardstark? John's regiment ships out to Algeria in March of 1944. There, his all-black regiment encounters racism from white soldiers on what is possibly a worse scale than they are used to back at home. At the camp in Algeria, black soldiers are not allowed to go to the movies after a certain time. They're forbidden from entering the post-exchange. In one letter to Arlene, John writes, quote, "Segregation on every turn, and I mean in the worst kind of way." He adds, quote, "Some of these rotten dogs I have to work around are worse now than they were in the States." Because they just...
26:46 Karen Kilgariff? They're free.
26:47 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
26:48 Karen Kilgariff? God, that sucks.
26:49 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. He lives in, like, Massachusetts, and he's from Ohio. You know, he's not from the South, so he's experiencing something he's never, maybe, never had.
26:56 Karen Kilgariff? That intensity, yeah.
26:57 Georgia Hardstark? The following November, John, now 30, and his regiment are called to Italy. Your friend, Italy?
27:02 Karen Kilgariff? That was my spot.
27:03 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. To fight on that same Gothic line that Vernon was fighting on. On Christmas of 1944, John is serving as a forward observer in the town of Somocollonia. It's gorgeous. Somocollonia. Somocollonia, Italy. And then put a hand up like you. On Christmas night, more and more enemy troops amass near the town, this little town in Italy, until the Americans are outnumbered. Most of the Allied troops in town withdraw, but John and a few others stay back directing defensive artillery fire that will slow down the Germans. So they're all retreating. They've got like a little platoon staying to like just fend off what's becoming more and more enemy soldiers. Right.
27:46 Georgia Hardstark? By early Boxing Day morning, the Germans have entered the town. John and the few soldiers who remained are positioned at the top of a tower in the center of town. This part, when I read it, I just, it broke my heart. From that position, John is able to call in coordinates to the Americans firing artillery from farther away and say, here's exactly where the Germans are. As the Germans advance on the tower, he's calling in strikes closer and closer to his position. He's like, hit them here, hit them here. The artillery fire he's calling in is effective, but the town is overrun with enemy troops by this point. Each explosion draws nearer and nearer to the tower where he and the remaining soldiers are. Finally, John calls in one more set of coordinates. The artillery unit on the
28:30 Georgia Hardstark? other end of the line argues with him because that, he's basically calling in a strike to his own position. Hmm. Like, they're here, strike. Yeah. John says, quote, "Fire it. There are more of them than there are of us. Give them hell." And it's like, worth it to him. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, it is, it's the world. It's like, they are fighting for the freedom of the world. Right. I mean, chills. Yeah. The Americans follow John's instructions, and he and the other men who volunteered to stay behind are killed along with the enemy. By remaining in town and continuing to do that, to direct artillery fire, John and his team slow down the German troops, and the artillery fire kills somewhere between 40 and 100 of the enemy. Wow.
29:15 Georgia Hardstark? They also give the retreating American soldiers and the Italian civilians from that town time to escape by doing that. The US troops are eventually able to regain control of the town.
29:26 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
29:26 Georgia Hardstark? The Germans had been trying to retake the strategic port at Livorno, about 60 miles south of Somacolonia, and they ultimately were unable to because of this. If they had succeeded, if the enemy had succeeded, they would have cut the Americans off from being able to get supplies at all. So John does not receive any award for his heroism until 1982, when a friend compiles the necessary evidence for him to be awarded the Distinguished Service Cross, which has to be so complicated because it's just word of mouth at that point, probably, right? Like, you have to interview everyone who was there.
29:58 Karen Kilgariff? And try to go find, like, paperwork in the archives that shows that they were there.
30:02 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
30:03 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
30:04 Georgia Hardstark? Arlene, who became a widow at 25 years old, never remarries.
30:09 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
30:10 Georgia Hardstark? I know, I know, I know. 25, and she never remarries.
30:15 Karen Kilgariff? Now, it's her man. I mean, she was married to a man like that. She was married to a man that made a sacrifice like that.
30:21 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, find someone better.
30:22 Karen Kilgariff? You're not gonna go be like, hey, do you like to read? I mean, like, what are you supposed to do after that? You married the hero already.
30:28 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
30:29 Karen Kilgariff? God damn it.
30:30 Georgia Hardstark? Um, okay.
30:32 Karen Kilgariff? I know.
30:33 Georgia Hardstark? For decades, she and their daughter Sandra, along with other members of the 92nd Infantry and their families, advocate for better recognition of the valor of black soldiers in World War II. Though America took decades to recognize John's heroism, it turns out that in the town of Somacolonia, they already were like
30:52 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
30:53 Georgia Hardstark? celebrating it.
30:54 Karen Kilgariff? No.
30:54 Georgia Hardstark? Long before John was awarded his first medal, the town memorialized him with a small monument among several dedicated to the heroes who helped rid them, that town, of Nazis.
31:05 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
31:05 Georgia Hardstark? There is a monument to him before we even, like, were like, hey, good job. In 1970s, an American woman named Solis Wales, who wrote the book that I used as a source, is living in Italy, and she finds the monument, and she becomes so interested in Fox's story that she researches his life and military service and eventually writes that book. She also joins in Arlene's push to get her husband's contributions recognized. So the Clinton administration is the first to really pay attention to these calls, surprisingly, can you believe?
31:38 Karen Kilgariff? Her emails.
31:38 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, and
31:42 Georgia Hardstark? And a grant is given to Shaw University, who we talked about in the very beginning, to investigate stories of black heroism in World War II. And that's how Vernon winds up getting his phone call in 1996. And then in January of 1997, along with Vernon and five other soldiers, as I said, John is posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor, the military's highest decoration. At the time that he's awarded the medal, Arlene says, quote, "He was always a hero to us. We never needed a medal to know what he had done and what kind of person he was. If he knew he didn't have a way out, he was going to make it count. He was that kind of guy."
32:19 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, so brave. That's the ultimate act of bravery.
32:23 Georgia Hardstark? I mean, you'd wonder what you would do in that situation. And I bet the most of us would not do that.
32:29 Karen Kilgariff? It'd be like, um, I guess you could, but, well, like,
32:33 Georgia Hardstark? Get me out of here.
32:33 Karen Kilgariff? Let us run. Yeah. I mean, that's also just like the survival instinct.
32:37 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
32:38 Karen Kilgariff? That's why it's so noble.
32:39 Georgia Hardstark? Totally. I mean, it's what you're supposed to be as a soldier, but it's, you're also a human.
32:45 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
32:45 Georgia Hardstark? When asked about what the recognition means to her, Arlene says, quote, "I think it's more than just what it means to this family. I think it sends a message to all, like a little wake-up call, that when a man does his duty, his color isn't important." End quote. The five other black soldiers who received the Medal of Honor for their service in World War II are Sergeant Reuben Rivers, Staff Sergeant Edward A. Carter, Jr., Lieutenant Charles Thomas, Private First Class Willie James, and Private George Watson. When he receives his medal, Vernon, the only veteran alive at the time, says, quote, "The only thing that I can say to those who are not here with me is, 'Thank you, fellas. Well done. I will always remember you.'"
33:26 Karen Kilgariff? Ugh.
33:27 Georgia Hardstark? And those are the stories of Lieutenant John R. Fox and Lieutenant Vernon Baker, two American heroes who went far too long without the recognition they deserved.
33:37 Karen Kilgariff? Here's your, great job. Here's your Netflix series. And it's like, these are untold stories.
33:42 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God, the 92nd Infantry, like, give them a straight-to-series 10-season arc. Thank you.
33:48 Karen Kilgariff? Tell that story.
33:49 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
33:49 Karen Kilgariff? Everybody wants to know these stories.
33:51 Georgia Hardstark? And there's tons more.
33:52 Karen Kilgariff? God dang. That's amazing. Great job. Thank you. Thank you. Great find, like, great idea. All right, that's... There it is, a solo episode. That's what the solo episodes, I think, are about, is we try to find a strong story that can stand on its own. That's right. And will also give you beauty tips. That's right. It's really a perfect podcast. You have to admit it. Yeah, like, that's basically who we are and what we do.
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34:43 Georgia Hardstark? The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+.
34:47 Karen Kilgariff? Sonny's life is pretty great, until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his, with one exception: his mom. To everyone else, she's the same Ellen they've known their whole lives, but for Sonny, he knows something is off. As his relationship with his mother begins to crack in unsettling ways, he's forced to question what happens when the perfect mom becomes a perfect stranger. Is this all in his head, or is there really an imposter in his house? Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nevola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface. Watch the Hulu original series, Phony. Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. Goodbye. As an adult, making dinner isn't the hard part.
35:29 Karen Kilgariff? The hard part is deciding what to make every single night for the rest of your life. But with Hungry Root, you can make that decision a whole lot easier. Hungry Root is like having your own personal shopper and nutritionist all wrapped up into one. They'll take care of weekly grocery shopping and recommend groceries and meals tailored to you. Once you tell them about your goals and preferences, they fill your cart with personalized recommendations. And those recommendations get smarter as Hungry Root learns more about what you did or didn't like. Most of Hungry Root's recipes can be made in just 15 minutes or less. I mean, of course, it's always great to have delicious and very healthy... The groceries delivered to your house, which they can do. But I love the fact that Hungry Root will also just make you dinner so you can have it sitting there waiting.
36:10 Karen Kilgariff? They make a classic chicken, corn, and Mexican rice bowl, and they have all kinds of variations on those themes. So that's one that I love to reach for. And all these options so you're getting really healthy meals.
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36:38 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
36:51 Karen Kilgariff? Well, we're back in the car, and you know what that means. It's time for another round of Honking Hoorays.
36:56 Georgia Hardstark? Presented by Hyundai. This is actually my car. This is my Hyundai. All right, should I go first?
37:02 Karen Kilgariff? Go ahead.
37:03 Georgia Hardstark? Okay. This is just called Hooray. Hi Karen and Georgia. My hooray is that my mom came with me to get my first tattoo. Sat by my side for the full four hours, holding my hand, helping me get through some of the worst parts of the pain. This was the same woman who eight years ago told me if I ever got a tattoo, I would never be welcome in her home again.
37:22 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
37:23 Georgia Hardstark? Battling breast cancer and winning turned her into the strong, amazing woman that she is today. She is living proof that it's never too late to change and grow, and I'm so proud to be her daughter. SSDGM Kaylee.
37:35 Karen Kilgariff? Kaylee, congrats on your cool mom.
37:37 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
37:38 Karen Kilgariff? But also, I love that she's like, my mom sat there with me through this voluntary pain that I paid a bunch of money to have.
37:44 Georgia Hardstark? Like fed me crackers and she gave me water.
37:47 Karen Kilgariff? She got me through something I did not have to go through. It wasn't required, because she's been through real shit.
37:53 Georgia Hardstark? That's right.
37:54 Karen Kilgariff? And she knows none of this matters.
37:55 Georgia Hardstark? Exactly.
37:56 Karen Kilgariff? Okay. This is from Jenna via Instagram DM. And it says, "My hooray is that after years of wanting a sectional couch, I took the plunge and got a giant comfy sectional couch." Right? Same. "Now I finally get to experience being a corner couch cushion queen in my own home."
38:13 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God.
38:13 Karen Kilgariff? Have you heard of that?
38:14 Georgia Hardstark? I didn't know that thing, but that is like me in a nutshell. I have my little corner with all my little things.
38:20 Karen Kilgariff? And what do you do if someone sits in that corner?
38:22 Georgia Hardstark? They don't.
38:22 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, that's right.
38:23 Georgia Hardstark? No, they don't.
38:23 Karen Kilgariff? They know. The impression is exactly your butt. No one else can go in there. And then the last line of this DM is, "I also just found out I'm pregnant."
38:32 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God.
38:33 Karen Kilgariff? So if you need a little, you know, the heart at the end. So beautiful.
38:38 Georgia Hardstark? That is lovely. There is something about a sectional couch that just like can't compare to a regular old boring ass sofa.
38:45 Karen Kilgariff? The gratitude you feel from a good sectional couch is unmatched.
38:49 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
38:50 Karen Kilgariff? I'm sorry.
38:50 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, here's mine from Instagram. Karen in Georgia, please meet my hooray. Georgia Hardbark. She's a hoot and a half.
39:00 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, that's a cute dog.
39:02 Georgia Hardstark? And that's from Jessica. Georgia Hardbark, I'm so honored.
39:06 Karen Kilgariff? Very cute. Very similar here. I won't read you the subject line. It just says, "Here's a quick little hooray. My play Catching a Cheese Pervert, a Francis mystery that I wrote and directed, is inspired by the Swiss cheese pervert who I heard about first on MFM 25 years ago."
39:25 Karen Kilgariff? And it went up at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.
39:27 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God, I was there.
39:28 Karen Kilgariff? So it was good. Like it wasn't just they wrote one. It's like I got that out of my system.
39:33 Georgia Hardstark? You gotta be accepted to that.
39:34 Karen Kilgariff? They made it into the fringe. It's hard to do. "A dream come true for every theater kid in the world. Thanks Karen and Georgia for planting the seed for my weird little show."
39:43 Georgia Hardstark? I love that.
39:43 Karen Kilgariff? Catching the Swiss cheese pervert.
39:45 Georgia Hardstark? Look it up. Look it up next, coming up on what? PBS, probably?
39:51 Karen Kilgariff? Swiss cheese pervert? Yeah, because it's the theater. Yeah, I'm excited. Congratulations, Krista.
39:56 Georgia Hardstark? Masterpiece Theater.
39:57 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
39:58 Georgia Hardstark? That's incredible. Wow. Well, thank you Hyundai for letting us present Honking Hoorays.
40:03 Karen Kilgariff? We love to sit in cars and read emails. So if you have any, you know, send them to us. Let us know what your Honking Hooray is.
40:09 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, please.
40:10 Karen Kilgariff? Stay sexy.
40:11 Georgia Hardstark? And don't get murdered.
40:12 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
40:14 Georgia Hardstark? Elvis, do you want a cookie?
40:22 Karen Kilgariff? This has been an Exactly Right Production.
40:24 Georgia Hardstark? Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.
40:28 Karen Kilgariff? Our editor is Aristotle Lasevedo.
40:30 Georgia Hardstark? This episode was mixed by Leona Scolacci.
40:32 Karen Kilgariff? Our researchers are Mary McGlashan and Ally Elkin.
40:35 Georgia Hardstark? Email your hometowns to [email protected] .
40:38 Karen Kilgariff? And follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder.
40:41 Georgia Hardstark? Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
40:45 Karen Kilgariff? And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix.
40:48 Georgia Hardstark? And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the remind me buttons. That's the best way you can support our show.
40:54 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
40:58 Georgia Hardstark? You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium.
41:00 Karen Kilgariff? Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.
41:03 Georgia Hardstark? Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals, it's designed to relax and prepare you for a night of rest.
41:08 Karen Kilgariff? If you need a reset after your day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine.
41:13 Georgia Hardstark? Generously spritz each foot before bed and you'll be all set. I've actually started doing this and I'm obsessed with magnesium. It does everything.
41:20 Karen Kilgariff? Something like this is just like, it's simple, it's easy, and it actually works.
41:24 Georgia Hardstark? Totally. For wellness you can feel, find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle.
41:29 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
41:30 Georgia Hardstark? By now you've heard about Reef's shoes and sandals, but we want to introduce you to their line of women's clogs for fall.
41:36 Karen Kilgariff? These are the kind of shoes you'll keep reaching for because they're genuinely comfortable, but still feel cute and current.
41:41 Georgia Hardstark? A cute, like, flowy dress and a pair of clogs is so timeless.
41:46 Karen Kilgariff? And we got to get some of these clogs. I couldn't believe how cute and comfortable these Reef clogs were. They have the arch support, they have the height, they give you a little bit of height, but they're kind of simple. Check out the clogs on reef.com and redeem 15% off your first purchase.
42:01 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
42:02 Karen Kilgariff? Vacation planning should feel like a breeze, not a deep dive into countless travel sites searching for the best deal.
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42:13 Karen Kilgariff? You'll save time and money with the Budget Beach Finder.
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42:21 Karen Kilgariff? Go to cheapcaribbean.com to try out the Budget Beach Finder and see just how stress-free vacation planning should be.
42:27 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
Previous Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 85: Live at the Boulder Theater Next MFM Minisode 477 Page updated October 31, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated