Pod Insights My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark 500 - Knot for Naught About this episode On today’s 500th (!!) episode, Karen covers the Lost Women of Highway 20 and Georgia tells the story of the Hollywood Bling Ring.
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Transcript 17,788 words · 7 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Karen Kilgariff? This is exactly right.
0:06 Speaker 01 Cash Flow Crunch. OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
0:36 Georgia Hardstark? The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ Plus. Sonny's life is pretty great until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his, with one exception, his mom.
0:48 Karen Kilgariff? Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nivola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.
0:56 Georgia Hardstark? Watch the Hulu original series, Phony.
0:58 Karen Kilgariff? Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.
1:02 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
1:03 Speaker 03 In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way. When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, the rubber hits the road. And what the feds uncover is a complex scheme of staged wrecks, financial fraud, and a pair of conspiring lovers behind it. This is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences. Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
1:56 Georgia Hardstark? Hello.
1:58 Karen Kilgariff? And welcome.
1:59 Georgia Hardstark? To My Favorite Murder.
2:00 Karen Kilgariff? That's Georgia Hardstark.
2:01 Georgia Hardstark? That's Karen Kilgariff.
2:02 Karen Kilgariff? This is our 500th episode.
2:04 Georgia Hardstark? That's so bananas. I can't even come to grips with it.
2:07 Karen Kilgariff? It is. It feels like five and it feels like 500,000.
2:12 Georgia Hardstark? It does. Both. Both.
2:15 Karen Kilgariff? Yum.
2:15 Georgia Hardstark? Did you ever think we'd get to this number when we start, when we were making single-digit puns?
2:21 Georgia Hardstark? Back in my old apartment in Hollywood.
2:23 Karen Kilgariff? Taking so much time to name these shows.
2:26 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
2:26 Karen Kilgariff? Really, a couple of days worth of, wait, wait.
2:29 Georgia Hardstark? I thought of one.
2:29 Karen Kilgariff? Here's a better one.
2:30 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
2:31 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, no, it's pretty wild.
2:33 Georgia Hardstark? It is. Cheers.
2:34 Karen Kilgariff? Hey. Cheers.
2:35 Georgia Hardstark? Good job. 500?
2:37 Karen Kilgariff? Great job.
2:37 Georgia Hardstark? And that's it.
2:38 Karen Kilgariff? And goodbye.
2:39 Georgia Hardstark? And that's the last.
2:40 Karen Kilgariff? Mm-hmm. And then we're both raptured.
2:44 Georgia Hardstark? Wait, I'm a Jew.
2:47 Karen Kilgariff? Wait, don't take me.
2:48 Georgia Hardstark? Wait, wait, no, no, no, I don't want to go there. I want to go somewhere else, please. I want to go to Ireland.
2:51 Karen Kilgariff? Do they have any? That's a different kind of rapture, the Guinness Rapture.
2:55 Georgia Hardstark? What's going on?
2:56 Karen Kilgariff? God, nothing. I mean, we had incredible shows in Boston.
2:59 Georgia Hardstark? Mm-hmm.
3:00 Karen Kilgariff? Very tie-tie, two shows in one night.
3:03 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, by the time this episode goes up, we'll have been in Salt Lake City and then tonight, we'll be in Oakland.
3:09 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
3:09 Georgia Hardstark? Which is exhausting to just think about.
3:11 Karen Kilgariff? It's the future!
3:12 Georgia Hardstark? Hopefully you guys are enjoying the shows. Go to myfavormurder.com/live to get your tickets.
3:16 Karen Kilgariff? And thank you, Boston, for just a delightful, power-packed evening of all kinds of things. I mean, everything happened in those two shows.
3:26 Georgia Hardstark? Speaking of, I have a movie recommendation because it made me cry, which I don't do.
3:31 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, you do. You've started to.
3:33 Georgia Hardstark? I know, I know. Once in a while, I like, there's certain things, but I really need those, those good cries. And there's this thing that all my girlfriends talk about and agree upon, which is that when you're on a plane, you cry harder at movies and it's a good cry, and airplane movie cries are the best cries.
3:49 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
3:50 Georgia Hardstark? And I fucking never, ever had one. And I've always been like, that sounds nice to have in your life. And it never happened until we were on our way home yesterday from Boston.
4:00 Karen Kilgariff? Hmm.
4:00 Georgia Hardstark? And I found myself sobbing in my seat from a movie that I think you'll love. I'm sure you love this movie. It's a British fucking epic World War II love story.
4:13 Karen Kilgariff? Hmm.
4:15 Georgia Hardstark? Atonement.
4:15 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, so good.
4:17 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my fucking god.
4:20 Karen Kilgariff? The Typing Keys soundtrack as she runs around that.
4:22 Georgia Hardstark? Everything about that, yes.
4:24 Karen Kilgariff? Incredible.
4:24 Georgia Hardstark? And so the end, I have a video of it, I'm gonna make a video. I just was sobbing in my seat.
4:28 Karen Kilgariff? I'm sorry, you have video of yourself sobbing?
4:31 Georgia Hardstark? Yep, because it was so good. It felt, I was like, finally, I'm a real girl. I like, I felt real for the first time in my life.
4:37 Karen Kilgariff? We gotta get you to the place where you do it and then you, it's not content.
4:41 Georgia Hardstark? Why wouldn't it be content? Why wouldn't it be content?
4:44 Karen Kilgariff? Why wouldn't it?
4:45 Georgia Hardstark? Why wouldn't everything be content? Look around.
4:48 Karen Kilgariff? So wait, can you do a little reenactment of what, so you start to cry, oh, this is really sad?
4:53 Georgia Hardstark? And I was like, oh my god, I'm crying. I was like, I felt like, oh my god, I have emotions. This is so cool.
4:58 Karen Kilgariff? They're in there.
4:59 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
4:59 Karen Kilgariff? They're in there.
5:00 Georgia Hardstark? So either things are going really well and I'm like, breaking through, or things are going really poorly and I'm crying a lot.
5:06 Karen Kilgariff? Either way, the rapture's coming.
5:11 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, I, when I learned that it's very good to cry because it is one of the ways the body releases cortisol. Cause I always had, like, not as much shut down feelings. It was more like, you're not allowed to do this and no one has time for this.
5:26 Georgia Hardstark? I have part of that too.
5:27 Karen Kilgariff? So it's kind of that thing of like, I start feeling it and then I just like, fully muscle it down.
5:31 Georgia Hardstark? I think that's what it is. Or it's almost like, this isn't gonna do anything.
5:35 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
5:35 Georgia Hardstark? You're wasting your time and everyone else is.
5:37 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
5:38 Georgia Hardstark? Stop it. Yeah.
5:40 Karen Kilgariff? What will come of this? Nothing. Then stop. But then like, learning that where it's like, no, no, it's for you. You get, you get to release some of that goddamn cortisol.
5:47 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. There are times when I'm like, I know that if I fucking started bawling right now, I would feel so much better in 20 minutes. But I can't do it and I don't wanna do the things that I know will make me do it, like think sad thoughts. Because I'm trying so hard not to do that anyways.
6:02 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, you gotta, I don't think that's the way to do it. I think you just have to be open when it really comes.
6:07 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
6:07 Karen Kilgariff? But that's a hard thing. It's all easy to say and hard to do.
6:11 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Well, Atonement, the movie Atonement, it's like 2013, I think. Oh, Keira Knightley and what's his adorable face from?
6:20 Karen Kilgariff? James Mack?
6:21 Georgia Hardstark? McAvoy.
6:22 Karen Kilgariff? McAvoy.
6:22 Georgia Hardstark? Oh my god.
6:23 Karen Kilgariff? He's the greatest.
6:25 Georgia Hardstark? And Sarosi, how do you say?
6:27 Karen Kilgariff? Of the liver.
6:30 Georgia Hardstark? How do you say her name?
6:30 Karen Kilgariff? Saoirse.
6:31 Georgia Hardstark? Saoirse.
6:32 Karen Kilgariff? Saoirse Ronan.
6:33 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you. And fucking little what's her face from the fucking, the football.
6:38 Karen Kilgariff? Keira Knightley?
6:39 Georgia Hardstark? No.
6:40 Karen Kilgariff? Juno Temple?
6:41 Georgia Hardstark? Yes, thank you, Juno Temple.
6:42 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, from, I almost just said Ed Hardy. This is the saddest conversation we've ever had.
6:48 Georgia Hardstark? Let's edit this all out.
6:49 Karen Kilgariff? This is the 500th conver- no, no, no, it's good.
6:51 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
6:52 Karen Kilgariff? It's good. This is exactly our kind of podcast.
6:54 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, great, great, great, great.
6:55 Karen Kilgariff? You can't, we, we were basically up for 48 hours straight. So this is the result, this is what podcasting looks like when, when you're doing it like that.
7:03 Georgia Hardstark? You overdo it.
7:04 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
7:04 Georgia Hardstark? When you commit too much, just too much stuff.
7:06 Karen Kilgariff? I'm gonna give you a recommendation for your next crying movie.
7:09 Georgia Hardstark? Great.
7:09 Karen Kilgariff? Cause it, it's a crier.
7:10 Georgia Hardstark? Yes, everyone give me airplane crying movies. Karen, go ahead.
7:13 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, this movie, first of all, I was about to say Atonement again. This movie stars Alan Rickman and Juliet Stevenson, British movie, very art-housey. But an amazing director, it was one of his first big ones. I can't remember what director, it's like a great director. And it is called Truly Madly Deeply.
7:33 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, I've heard of it.
7:34 Karen Kilgariff? It's really brilliantly, it's like one of those things where I bet the person who, when they decided to make it, read the script and was like, holy shit. It's like, great, beautifully written, very real and true.
7:46 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
7:46 Karen Kilgariff? But then also a little bit magical.
7:49 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, because it's so funny, with Atonement, I was like, this is like a book I would read, and normally I'd been like, I wish I read the book. But this is like the first time I've been like, I'm so glad I watched the movie because there's so many little details. Like I get cinematography now with the typing being part of the, the background and the music and the little moments that you just can't see when you're listening to or reading a book.
8:11 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
8:12 Georgia Hardstark? And actually, if you love the movie Atonement, I highly recommend the author Kate Morton. She does very similar style, that World War II, like epic.
8:22 Karen Kilgariff? Kind of historical.
8:23 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, and like seeing Dunkirk, the way they show it, like I, you know, you can't, you can picture it all you want when you're reading it, which I fucking love. But it was just done so well that I just don't think I would have, my, my imagination would have never taken me there.
8:38 Karen Kilgariff? And I think you're so right, those war scenes in that movie are so gigantic and like really put you there.
8:45 Georgia Hardstark? Realistic, and then they like slice in real fucking footage from the time. I mean, it was just, I think, one of my favorite movies I've seen in a long time.
8:53 Karen Kilgariff? Now, Molly, please correct me when I'm wrong, but I'm almost positive that it's the same director as Pride and Prejudice. Am I wrong about that? Yes. God damn it. Same.
9:04 Georgia Hardstark? 500 episodes, the first time you're wrong about anything. Can you believe it?
9:08 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
9:09 Speaker 04 Joe Wright directed Pride and Prejudice, the new one.
9:11 Georgia Hardstark? Uh huh.
9:12 Speaker 04 Anthony Mingala directed Truly Madly Deeply.
9:14 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, no, no, no, but, but Atonement.
9:16 Speaker 04 Oh, Atonement. Wait, okay, you might not be, hold on.
9:19 Karen Kilgariff? Woo! Oh, my God, Second Chance.
9:21 Speaker 04 Okay, I'm wrong. You're right.
9:23 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, my God!
9:24 Georgia Hardstark? 500 episodes!
9:26 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, my God, it feels so great.
9:27 Georgia Hardstark? How do you feel here?
9:28 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
9:29 Georgia Hardstark? Congratulations.
9:30 Karen Kilgariff? Thank you so much. Oh, my God, I guess the first I'd like to thank, The Rapture.
9:35 Georgia Hardstark? Let's just kick the box. Uh huh.
9:36 Karen Kilgariff? I guess I have to thank Georgia, because she's the reason I'm here. Thanks, Georgia.
9:40 Georgia Hardstark? Steven Rames.
9:41 Karen Kilgariff? Steven.
9:42 Georgia Hardstark? Steven.
9:43 Karen Kilgariff? R.I.P.
9:47 Georgia Hardstark? We love you, Steven. Good job. Congratulations.
9:49 Karen Kilgariff? Thank you so much. But Anthony, it's because when I watched it, loving The Pride and Prejudice so much, I was like, this man is unbelievable. But Anthony Mingala is the director of Truly Madly Deeply, went on to direct The English Patient.
10:03 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, such a good book.
10:05 Karen Kilgariff? So.
10:07 Georgia Hardstark? Of course, I read the book.
10:08 Karen Kilgariff? She always brags about the book.
10:09 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, I'm gonna get rid of these.
10:10 Karen Kilgariff? Okay, good idea. All right. Well, that was amazing. Thank you, Molly. And thank you for your honesty and your vulnerability. Um, yeah.
10:18 Georgia Hardstark? And you're producing all these episodes, not 500, but it probably feels like it.
10:23 Karen Kilgariff? It probably feels, these days, there's three. So, oh, you know what I was gonna say for the 500th? And this, I don't know if this has happened to you, we've probably talked about it before, if it has, but I think it was the first time it happened to me. When I was driving to work last week before we left for a tour, I got off the freeway, I had just never seen a bumper sticker. I'd seen pictures of bumper stickers.
10:45 Georgia Hardstark? On your own, yeah, yeah.
10:46 Karen Kilgariff? Exactly. So, not from my own car.
10:47 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
10:48 Karen Kilgariff? And so, I pull up, and it's S.S.G.G.M. on the right side in the little talking
10:54 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
10:54 Karen Kilgariff? bubble. And on the left side, there's just a sticker of Bigfoot. And I was like, this is my, this is my friend I've never met before. And I'm just sitting there, and I was like, honk, honk.
11:03 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
11:04 Karen Kilgariff? Just like, like that. And the person, I was looking at them through their own, like, rearview mirror. And they kind of weren't turning around. So I think they were just like, why is this asshole honking at me? So then I was like, honk, honk, honk, honk, honk, honk. And I, then I rolled my window down and stuck my arm and my whole head out the window. And I was like that. And they were like, ugh, they kind of looked horrified.
11:24 Georgia Hardstark? Really like, I borrowed my best friend's car and I don't know who this, this woman is who's waving her whole body. She must also be, I, my friend who loves that fucking podcast, this must be another person who loves that fucking podcast.
11:35 Karen Kilgariff? Or loves Bigfoot.
11:36 Georgia Hardstark? Loves Bigfoot.
11:37 Karen Kilgariff? Loves.
11:37 Georgia Hardstark? But did she finally, did it dawn?
11:39 Karen Kilgariff? I think so. I think at the end.
11:41 Georgia Hardstark? Well, if you have a SSD GM sticker and, and you're in Burbank, like.
11:46 Karen Kilgariff? Hey, what's up?
11:46 Georgia Hardstark? Karen Wave said hi to you. Was that you? Let us know.
11:49 Karen Kilgariff? It was, yeah, let us know. But also, it was really exciting, even though I know that people like this podcast and people support this podcast.
11:57 Georgia Hardstark? No, they don't.
11:58 Karen Kilgariff? It's a.
12:01 Georgia Hardstark? Do they?
12:01 Karen Kilgariff? Get real. But to see it like that in the wild, it truly was kind of like, oh, almost like being able to see it through the eyes of the other. Like, that's what this kind of looks like.
12:11 Georgia Hardstark? It's always exciting.
12:12 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, it was cool.
12:13 Georgia Hardstark? Cool. Well, beside having a podcast and 500 episodes of it, we also have a podcast network.
12:19 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, thousands of episodes on that thing.
12:21 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, it's called Exactly Right Media, and here are a few highlights.
12:24 Karen Kilgariff? My Favorite Murder now has a brand new YouTube channel.
12:27 Georgia Hardstark? Yay.
12:28 Karen Kilgariff? So you can watch full episodes of this podcast, mini-sodes, shorts, and more at myfavoritemurder.video or by searching My Favorite Murder on YouTube.
12:38 Georgia Hardstark? They're holding us hostage and making us fucking 40-plus women make videos. And so, please.
12:44 Karen Kilgariff? Not YouTube. We really like YouTube.
12:46 Georgia Hardstark? Not YouTube, just in general. Molly, please go watch them. So they're not for not.
12:52 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, exactly. All of our strivings and lips liner, lips liner.
12:58 Georgia Hardstark? Lips liner and contouring is not for not. And for all your other favorite Exactly Right shows, like this podcast will kill you, Ghosted by Roz Hernandez, Buried Bones, I Said No Gifts, you can still find them all at youtube.com/ExactlyRightMedia.
13:11 Karen Kilgariff? And that's also where you can find MFM Animated. That's right. Our MFM Animated's are over at Exactly Right Media's YouTube. Two page. And this week, we have a brand new clip from the one and only Nick Terry, featuring my iconic, and I'm only saying that because it's written here.
13:28 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
13:28 Karen Kilgariff? Drunk Karen voice from Mini Sode 63.
13:31 Georgia Hardstark? My absolute favorite. It's so good. Go watch it. And if that's not enough content for you, then you, and the crying content that I make, then you should join the fan cult at fancult.supercast.com for ad free episodes of My Favorite Murder, exclusive audio and video, merch discounts, and access to our private Discord server.
13:49 Karen Kilgariff? Also, one last thing, as we said, we are on tour and there are still some gold VIP packages available that include exclusive merch bundles, a signed poster, and more. So check your city availability and grab tickets at myfavoritemurder.com/live.
14:04 Georgia Hardstark? And thanks for doing all of that.
14:06 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
14:06 Georgia Hardstark? And more.
14:07 Karen Kilgariff? And caring at all about any of it.
14:09 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, we appreciate you so much.
14:13 Speaker 01 Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
14:43 Karen Kilgariff? Sometimes being a little salty is completely justified.
14:46 Georgia Hardstark? Pair your salty side with something sweet with the new Salted Caramel flavor from Kachava.
14:51 Karen Kilgariff? Kachava is a whole body shake with plant-based protein, fiber, greens, and other nutrients to help fill nutritional gaps.
14:59 Georgia Hardstark? Just two scoops provide complete nutrition your body craves with protein, fiber, greens, and so much more.
15:05 Karen Kilgariff? Their new Salted Caramel flavor combines sweet caramel with a little salt, so you get that salty-sweet balance along with the nutrition Kachava is known for.
15:13 Georgia Hardstark? When the day demands your salty side, fuel it with plant-based protein that actually tastes delicious.
15:17 Karen Kilgariff? I really do love Kachava, and I really do think it does taste delicious for getting you through the morning, filling in the gap if you just need some protein and you need some vitamins. It's such a nice little treat.
15:29 Georgia Hardstark? It's an easy way to get everything you need and it tastes good, too, which is just huge bonus.
15:33 Karen Kilgariff? So embrace your salty side.
15:34 Georgia Hardstark? Go to kachava.com and use code MFM for 15% off your first order.
15:39 Karen Kilgariff? That's kachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A dot com, code MFM.
15:43 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
15:44 Karen Kilgariff? We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.
15:49 Georgia Hardstark? You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next, and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork and trying to figure out who to call.
15:58 Karen Kilgariff? Research shows patients spend the equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month coordinating their own care.
16:04 Georgia Hardstark? Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.
16:08 Karen Kilgariff? That's why there's Solace Health.
16:09 Georgia Hardstark? Solace provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience and can help you get answers fast.
16:16 Karen Kilgariff? Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle the logistics while you focus on your health.
16:22 Georgia Hardstark? They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options, and understanding doctor recommendations.
16:28 Karen Kilgariff? Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.
16:34 Georgia Hardstark? Advocacy improves outcomes and Solace advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.
16:38 Karen Kilgariff? Eligibility varies by insurance plan.
16:40 Georgia Hardstark? Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice or services, must be 18 years or older.
16:45 Karen Kilgariff? Go to solacehealth.com/murder to see if you qualify.
16:48 Georgia Hardstark? It takes about two minutes and it's covered by insurance.
16:51 Karen Kilgariff? That's S-O-L-A-C-E health dot com slash murder.
16:54 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
16:55 Karen Kilgariff? Okay.
16:59 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
17:00 Karen Kilgariff? You're first, right? Yes, I am. This is a straight-up true crime story, and just as a trigger warning, it includes mention of sexual assault. It also takes place in and around one major roadway in the Pacific Northwest, Highway 20 in Oregon. That highway cuts across the state west to east, running from the Pacific coast to Idaho, often through very remote areas. So this story is about six victims, all women, whose lives were either ended or torn apart on this highway. They were all different ages and came from different walks of life, and we know more about some of these cases than we do about others. But what we will learn is that one psychopathic man who knew Highway 20 better than
17:44 Karen Kilgariff? most is presumed to be responsible for what happened to all of them and potentially many more women who have gone missing in the state of Oregon. This is the story of suspected serial killer, convicted murderer, and Oregon State highway mechanic, John Arthur Ackroyd. Oh, my God. Maren basically got most of the research for this story from an award-winning multi-part series called Ghosts of Highway 20, produced by Oregonian journalists Noel Crombie, Dave Killen, and Beth Nakamura. We begin in 1977 with 20-year-old Marlene Gabrielson. Marlene is originally from Alaska. She's a member of the Inupiaq tribe, but now she lives in the town of Lebanon in northwestern
18:28 Karen Kilgariff? Oregon with her husband and their brand-new baby daughter. So, one night, the couple decides to drop their baby off with a sitter and head out to the rodeo in Sisters, Oregon, which is like an hour and a half away. And Maren left me a note, but I think it's a note worth reading, which is that Marlene is ID'd in this research because she very intentionally and very powerfully identifies herself in the Oregonians' reporting. Wow. Which is really amazing for what she has been through. So, at some point that evening, when they're at the rodeo, Marlene decides to head home alone. She said that she doesn't really remember the specifics here, but it seems like this happened because her and her husband got into an argument. What we know for sure is that Marlene's husband stays behind with the car.
19:12 Karen Kilgariff? And she goes, and because it's the late 70s, she's like, "I'll just hitchhike home." Totally. Very common in the late 70s. She's hitchhiking, and before long, a car pulls over, and inside, a stranger introduces himself as John. Nothing about him rings any immediate alarm bells for Marlene. He says he's in his late 20s, he's back in town after spending time in the Army, and he works for a local welding company. So, Marlene does get a ride home from John along Highway 20 towards Lebanon, as promised. And this highway, basically, at certain parts, are just long, dark, isolated stretches of road that are submerged. Rounded by dense evergreen forest. And that's all that's out there. And there's some old logging roads that cut off from the highway, but that's basically it.
19:57 Karen Kilgariff? So out in the middle of all of that, suddenly John pulls over and violently drags Marlene out of her seat and puts a knife to her throat, threatening to kill her unless she does what he says. He then tears her clothes off, using his blade to cut her underwear and her boots off of her. And then he rapes her. After the attack, he tells Marlene, quote, "Now what do I do with you?" Oh my god. So she knows what this means. He's considering killing her. But even in these horrific circumstances, Marlene comes up with an ingenious plan. Somehow she starts to act, and very convincingly act, like she's charmed by John. And it actually works, so much so, he asks her to be his girlfriend.
20:40 Karen Kilgariff? And of course, she says yes, and I'll be her girlfriend as long as you take me home right now. And he drives her home, knife still at hand. When they get back to Lebanon, Marlene is able to get out of his car alive and go home. Oh my god. So the first family member she encounters when she's there is her mother-in-law. And her mother-in-law is shocked to see the state that Marlene is in. So she urges Marlene to get in shower and go clean herself up. And Marlene says, "No, that would wash away evidence. I need to go straight to the hospital to get a rape kit." Oh my god, incredible. Yeah, and she even gives her clothes to the police from that night with all the information that she can remember about John Arthur Ackroyd.
21:22 Karen Kilgariff? But it's the late seventies, so it's not surprising, but it's always heartbreaking hearing these stories. Instead of protecting her, these investigators immediately doubt her story. The fuck? Uh huh. He cut her boots. Yeah. Like, what the fuck, dude? But also, she's a native woman. Right. So these are these built-in cultural excuses why people don't have to care. Yeah. Don't need empathy, or why they are, can be lazy. Yeah. And also just that that energy and attitude around rape victims at that time.
21:52 Georgia Hardstark? At the time, yeah.
21:54 Karen Kilgariff? It's so bad, they actually make Marlene take a polygraph and they decide she's lying about the sexual assault. So ultimately, they choose not to prosecute John Ackroyd. And years later, Marlene will tell reporter Noel Crombie, quote, "I always thought that's why these people get paid to protect you. They care, that's what I thought, but they made me feel like a smelly drunken native, so I just shrank. If they had only listened to me," end quote. So John Ackroyd never faces any legal consequences for Marlene's brutal assault. Although, and this is obviously cold comfort and eye for an eye, he does get his ass kicked by Marlene's husband.
22:32 Georgia Hardstark? Great.
22:33 Karen Kilgariff? But the problem is that it's not just Marlene who suffers because of these investigators' dereliction of duty. It will lead to deadly consequences for many other women.
22:42 Georgia Hardstark? Right, because now he knows, like, oh, I can't let them live, right?
22:47 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, and also that maybe it won't be that big of a deal.
22:50 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
22:51 Karen Kilgariff? Whatever I decide to do.
22:53 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
22:53 Karen Kilgariff? So, fast forward about a year and a half from Marlene's assault, and now it's late December 1978. And John Ackroyd is employed by the state of Oregon as a highway mechanic. So in this job, he drives up and down Highway 20, usually between Bend and Newport, helping stranded motorists repairing equipment, clearing wrecks, and maintaining remote stretches of road. This is literally a horror movie.
23:17 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
23:17 Karen Kilgariff? Like.
23:17 Georgia Hardstark? You've been given this power and a position of trust.
23:22 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
23:22 Georgia Hardstark? Not even just trust, but like, you have no other choice but to trust this person, or like, rely on this person.
23:28 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, the good faith that this person that's going to show up in a tow truck is helping you and not going to hurt you.
23:33 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
23:34 Karen Kilgariff? Doesn't seem like it should be that much to ask. This job also gives him unique access to and familiarity with this highway as he navigates it alone in his work truck with little to no supervision. So on Christmas Eve, 1978, 35-year-old Kay Turner, who's a public health manager from Eugene, is on vacation with her husband and some friends in Camp Sherman, which is about 15 miles from Sisters, which is where Marlene and her husband went to the rodeo. Kay decides that she's going to go out for a She's a serious runner. She doesn't think twice about going and doing her workout routine. She tells her husband she'll probably be home in about an hour. After two hours pass and she still isn't back, her friends start searching for her. And soon the police join
24:16 Karen Kilgariff? them and comb the area, wondering if maybe Kay somehow got lost out in the wilderness. And then they find some Nike running shoe prints that they think are Kay's, but there's also a large boot print there and signs of a struggle in the nearby dirt. In stark contrast to how Marlene is treated, though, the police immediately take Kay's case very seriously. She's a white woman. They immediately start to interview locals, and as they do, one name keeps coming up, John Ackroyd. He's interviewed on January 11th, 1979, a couple of weeks after Kay goes missing, and he admits that he did see her running the morning of Christmas Eve. But the police get sidetracked. When they dig
24:57 Karen Kilgariff? into Kay's private life, they learn that she's had extramarital affairs. So they focus on those leads, and they start scrutinizing her grieving husband.
25:05 Georgia Hardstark? Dude.
25:07 Karen Kilgariff? But this is all a dead end, and John Ackroyd manages, once again, to not be investigated. Eight months later, John Ackroyd reinserts himself into Kay's still-active case. One afternoon, he walks into a store in Camp Sherman where Kay went missing, and claims that he's just gone hunting and found bones and a pair of jogging shorts in the woods. He insists that these clothes must be Kay Turner's. So when investigators arrive at the scene and they speak to John, they immediately feel like he knows more than he's letting on. And when he's eventually polygraphed, he fails a question about whether he'd ever touched Kay, and he starts spinning a whole new theory. Now, he suddenly claims that he'd first found Kay's body back in February, two months after she went missing, and he
25:52 Karen Kilgariff? says she was lying in the snow with her throat cut and several visible bullet wounds. He tells police that he didn't report it then because he was afraid of becoming a suspect. Investigators smell a rat, and finally, John Ackroyd is on their radar, but they don't have any hard evidence, so they have to let him go. 12 years go by and now it's 1990 and the investigators assigned to the Kay Turner case get a call from the Lynn County District Attorney. So to give you a sense of location, to get to Lynn County from Camp Sherman where Kay was last seen, it's an hour's drive west on Highway 20. Lynn County is also where Marlene lives and Sisters, Oregon is in nearby Deschutes County. So all of these areas are in the same general swath of Oregon and they're all connected
26:37 Karen Kilgariff? by Highway 20. So when the DA asks investigators if they've heard of a Lynn County resident named John Arthur Ackroyd, of course, they say they have. The DA then explains that John's stepdaughter, 13-year-old Rashonda Pickle, has just been reported missing.
26:53 Georgia Hardstark? Hmm.
26:54 Karen Kilgariff? Rashonda is a young girl. She's playful, she's silly, she loves animals, she's very close with her big brother Byron, who's a year older than her. Rashonda's mother, Linda, describes her as, quote, "wonderful" and adds, quote, "you couldn't ask for anything sweeter." But life is not safe at home for Rashonda because in the mid-'80s, her mom marries John Ackroyd, believing that he's a good man, that she's providing stability for herself and her children. Instead, John reveals himself almost immediately as violent and abusive, particularly towards his stepchildren. Rashonda's in the fifth grade, she starts showing up to school with clear signs of physical abuse. She'll then confide to her friends that her stepfather is also sexually abusing her.
27:39 Karen Kilgariff? Rashonda tries to stay with relatives or friends as much as she can. She's in fifth grade.
27:44 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, no, that's just heartbreaking.
27:45 Karen Kilgariff? So she doesn't have to live under the same roof as him and she does everything she can to avoid being alone with him. She and Byron lean on each other during this time. They just focus on turning 18, when they can finally escape his abuse and his household once and for all. In July of 1990, Rashonda finally tells her biological father about this abuse she's been suffering at the hands of John. And he, the biological father, lives in a different part of Oregon, so he calls the mother, Linda, and threatens to get the police involved. The next day, Rashonda vanishes.
28:16 Georgia Hardstark? Oh.
28:18 Karen Kilgariff? So the police learn that John was alone with Rashonda. Rashonda the day she vanished, which was frightening, knowing how desperately Rashonda tried to avoid ever being alone with him. But her mom was at work, her brother was out of town visiting their father, John was supposed to be fixing a snowplow at his job. He'll later tell police that he'd taken the day off because he was waiting for parts to come in. But according to Noel Crombie's reporting from the Oregonian, that made no sense to his supervisors because John had a lot of other work he could have been doing that day.
28:50 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
28:51 Karen Kilgariff? John claims that he invited Rashonda out into the woods to take pictures of deer.
28:54 Georgia Hardstark? Mm-hmm.
28:55 Karen Kilgariff? This is a claim that baffles everyone in the family because he's never shown an interest in wildlife photography. According to him, Rashonda turned down his offer and stayed behind at the house. And when he returned later that day after going to take pictures of deer by himself, she was gone. Of course, there's a ton of immediate suspicion around John. And while under interrogation, the mask begins to slip. He offers up a bizarre theory about a stranger coming to the door and abducting Rashonda, saying almost casually, quote, "Eighty-seven pounds is nothing for somebody to carry. You hit them over the head and they have no fight."
29:30 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God. How fucking chilling.
29:33 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
29:34 Georgia Hardstark? Like, to be in that interrogation room and hear that.
29:35 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. And just knowing, it's like, that's the thing that I think is amazing because psychopaths work very hard to be smart.
29:42 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
29:43 Karen Kilgariff? But they always think they're the smartest people in the room. And it's that, when you watch, you know, any true crime show, you see what bad liars they are.
29:50 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Not even bad liars, like, they think too that, like, this, the person they're telling this thing that, you know, they think is totally normal too, but like, to hear that.
29:58 Karen Kilgariff? Like, that-
29:59 Georgia Hardstark? If you're not a psychopath, hearing that is fucking chilling.
30:02 Karen Kilgariff? It's chilling. And then also, if you're not that person talking, like, and you, clearly, this is, you're saying one thing.
30:09 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
30:10 Karen Kilgariff? But what's actually coming through is, oh, my God, you know how much she weighs.
30:14 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
30:15 Karen Kilgariff? You picked her up, like-
30:16 Georgia Hardstark? You know how to-
30:17 Karen Kilgariff? You're giving yourself away and you don't realize it.
30:18 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
30:19 Karen Kilgariff? The red flag of him knowing his stepdaughter's exact body weight is raised even higher when John tells investigators unprompted that on the night Rashonda disappeared, he and Linda had great sex.
30:29 Georgia Hardstark? Ew.
30:30 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. As Noel Crombie reports, this is, quote, "significant because they almost never had sex." Ackroyd's low libido was the source of such open conflict that Linda's teenage son Byron knew of their troubles.
30:42 Georgia Hardstark? Oh.
30:43 Karen Kilgariff? Not healthy, not okay.
30:45 Georgia Hardstark? No.
30:46 Karen Kilgariff? Most disturbingly, though, John seems fixated on describing his stepdaughter's body in sexualized terms. To the fucking police.
30:54 Georgia Hardstark? Dude, he's so... yeah.
30:58 Karen Kilgariff? Can't control it.
30:58 Georgia Hardstark? No.
30:59 Karen Kilgariff? He even tells officers her exact bra size at one point.
31:02 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my god.
31:03 Karen Kilgariff? And when he's eventually shown a pair of pants that police find in the woods and believe are Rashonda's, he becomes sexually aroused in front of them.
31:11 Georgia Hardstark? Are you fucking kidding me?
31:13 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, just a complete animal.
31:15 Georgia Hardstark? Like, this, that's the most... I, wow, okay.
31:19 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, yeah.
31:20 Georgia Hardstark? God, I never heard this.
31:21 Karen Kilgariff? It's like, well, we're gonna take a little break, um, and everyone has to go...
31:24 Georgia Hardstark? So we go wash our fucking hands?
31:26 Karen Kilgariff? Bleach bath.
31:27 Georgia Hardstark? Oh.
31:28 Karen Kilgariff? But again, the evidence against John Ackroyd is entirely circumstantial, so they have to let him go.
31:34 Georgia Hardstark? No, no, no.
31:35 Karen Kilgariff? The police are doing everything they can to build the strongest case they can against him, not only in Rashonda's case, but in Kay's, which is now picking up steam after being cold for several years. And that's because investigators on Kay's case are going back through the case file and they are looking for new avenues to explore. And when they do that, they find the name Roger Dale Beck. Now, Roger was close friends with John Ackroyd, and he claimed to be with him the day that Kay was reported missing. And Roger's then-wife Pam provided their alibi for that morning, but police never looked into Roger's potential involvement in Kay's murder until now. So as they dig, police finally find the lead they've been waiting for.
32:18 Karen Kilgariff? They learn from members of Roger's own family that on different occasions, he bragged about raping and killing a jogger back in the late 70s. Yeah.
32:26 Georgia Hardstark? To who?
32:27 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, for real.
32:28 Georgia Hardstark? Like... Even casually having beers with a friend or an acquaintance and them fucking like, what? Oh, my God. Like, this is psychotic.
32:38 Karen Kilgariff? Well, and it's also like, can we get a little perspective here where it's like, everything that people called political correctness in like the 90s was trying to correct shit like this, where it's like, hey, if your bro brags about raping and killing someone.
32:52 Georgia Hardstark? Fucking around.
32:53 Karen Kilgariff? I don't know. Make a phone call.
32:54 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
32:55 Karen Kilgariff? Pick up that phone.
32:55 Georgia Hardstark? No, he likes to brag about it. He makes up stories. He's still my very best friend. Like, what the fuck?
33:02 Karen Kilgariff? Insane. So, when investigators tried to reconfirm Roger and John's alibi for the day Kay went missing, Roger's now ex-wife Pam completely falls apart and tells them she lied. Both men had actually come home covered in blood on Christmas Eve, 1978. Roger made her burn his clothes, destroy his brand-new boots, and threatened her into covering for him and John.
33:25 Georgia Hardstark? I'm sure he was terrifying. Like, the terror of that and then what are you gonna do, stand up?
33:31 Karen Kilgariff? Right. He'll know it was you.
33:33 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
33:34 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, they just, ugh. So now it's May 1992. This is two years after Rashonda goes missing. She still hasn't been found, but investigators working Kay Turner's disappearance have managed to put together a really strong case, and there is a sense that John Ackroyd could be charged at any moment. But before the authorities can close in, two more young women from the same area in Oregon go missing. They are 17-year-old Melissa Sanders from Sweet Home, Oregon, and 19-year-old Sheila Swanson of Lebanon. So Melissa and Sheila disappeared during a family camping trip with the Sanders family to the Oregon coast town of Newport.
34:11 Georgia Hardstark? They were together.
34:12 Karen Kilgariff? Mm-hmm. And the family was there, too. The girls share a tent that night, but early the next morning, when Melissa's family wakes up, they find both girls are gone. At first, their families think they hitchhiked home because Melissa and Sheila did sometimes spend days away from their families. They're, you know, in their late teens.
34:29 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
34:30 Karen Kilgariff? And they'd actually even called their respective boyfriends to tell them they were going to leave the family camping trip. But when days pass with no sign of either of them... They're reported missing. Weeks later, in June of 1992, John Arthur Ackroyd is finally arrested for the murder of Kay Turner. Roger Dale Beck, his presumed accomplice in Kay's murder, is also arrested. This is 14 years after Kay went missing from Camp Sherman back in 1978 and 15 years since John's first known act of sexual violence against women, which was when Marlene was sexually assaulted in 77.
35:05 Georgia Hardstark? God, imagine like being their families, or Marlene in this case, and waiting that long to even have movement in your car. Like, I just...
35:14 Karen Kilgariff? But also, waiting that long, knowing that this monster is just walking around, which is such a cliche, but when you think about the fact of it, where it's like...
35:23 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, it's not like, it's not like, we don't know who it is, we haven't found, you know, a suspect yet. It's like, it is clearly to everyone, this fucking person.
35:32 Karen Kilgariff? It's this person and his fucking friend.
35:34 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
35:34 Karen Kilgariff? Like, it's horrifying. So, so, right out of the gate, what police wonder that if John knew he was about to get arrested and decided to kill more women while he still had the chance.
35:46 Georgia Hardstark? Jesus.
35:47 Karen Kilgariff? But when he's pressed about Melissa and Sheila's disappearances, he doesn't admit anything. Several months later, in October of 1992, hunters find Melissa and Sheila's bodies in the woods outside Eddieville, Oregon, off Highway 20, about 20 miles from the campsite in Newport where the girls were. At the scene, police discover a rivet, which is something a mechanic might have, but they don't have much else to go on. Eventually, Melissa and Sheila's case goes cold. So, the year after John's arrest in 1993, he's tried for the murder of Kay Turner. The case against him is largely circumstantial, but prosecutors lean into a few key pieces of evidence: Kay's Timex watch, her clothes, and her skeletal remains.
36:30 Karen Kilgariff? So, the watch is important because it stopped ticking the morning she disappeared, and it's presumed it stopped working at the time of the attack. It was broken. This gives police a pretty strong sense of the exact time she was killed, which that timeframe dovetails with when John told police he had spoken with her. He told them that.
36:49 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Didn't he find her body, too? Like...
36:51 Karen Kilgariff? He claims to have, yeah. On top of that, forensic testing shows that Kay's clothes had been cut off, which calls back to the MO of Marlene Gabrielson's assault.
37:01 Georgia Hardstark? Which they didn't fucking believe happened.
37:05 Karen Kilgariff? So much suffering with that kind, just because of an ego move like that.
37:09 Georgia Hardstark? Totally, but don't worry, it's just women who are suffering.
37:11 Karen Kilgariff? They just, yeah, that's right. So prosecutors also have John's own words, which are damning in and of themselves. Because John did tell police he found Kay's body two months after she was killed. He thought she looked like she'd been slashed and shot. And the prosecution hammers home that he could not have known these things, given how badly the body had been decomposed, unless he was the man that killed her. The jury deliberates for four hours and comes back and convicts John Ackroyd on two counts of aggravated murder and three counts of murder. His accomplice, Roger Dale Beck, is also convicted. Again, this is one conviction when John Ackroyd is suspected of many crimes against women. Still, it's a huge victory for the investigators who worked to get him off the streets.
37:55 Karen Kilgariff? One of those investigators is a man named Bill Hanlon, who championed Kay's case and is arguably the man who secured John Ackroyd's conviction. And he will later tell the Oregonian, quote, "It saved women's lives. If he had stayed out, if he had never been convicted, he and maybe Beck would have done more crimes and killed more women for sure. He managed to get through that whole thing without ever getting caught, not because he was all that smart, but because he slipped through," end quote. Here's my edit to that line, but because the police didn't do their jobs. Fast forward to 2010. At this point, John has served nearly two decades in prison and he's eligible for parole soon. I mean, 20 years.
38:39 Karen Kilgariff? So because of that, detectives dig back into Rashonda's disappearance with renewed vigor. They're hoping they can create a strong enough case to bring charges and ensure John stays in prison for the rest of his life. But when they press him for information on Rashonda, he doesn't give anything up. Meanwhile, cold case investigators are also looking at the 1992 double murder of Melissa Sanders and Sheila Swanson. And in 2012, they piece together information that had inexplicably gone overlooked in the 90s, probably because of sloppy police work. They learn that John Ackroyd was a regular at a 24-hour restaurant called Sherry's, which was frequented by local teens. And he had earned the nickname "The Perv" because of how creepy he was
39:24 Karen Kilgariff? about all those teenage patrons of Sherry's restaurant. Among those patrons were Melissa and Sheila, who John had been seen interacting with at the restaurant. So witnesses come forward and tell police that they saw two teens hitchhiking and entering a state truck that matched the description of John's work vehicle.
39:42 Georgia Hardstark? Holy shit.
39:43 Karen Kilgariff? And the rivet found near the scene is determined to match the kind commonly carried by the highway workers. Most damningly, one of John's coworkers will later report seeing John covered in blood around the exact time the girls go missing. At first, his coworker dismissed it because John said he hit a deer with his truck and got bloody clearing out the remains. So the whole incident goes unreported. But John never admits to any involvement in Melissa and Sheila's deaths. And because of that, there's still a lot we don't know about what happened to them. But the theory is that after talking with them at Sherry's, John knew the girls were camping at the coast that weekend and probably lied and say he'd be in the area if they wanted to get a ride home from him.
40:25 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
40:25 Karen Kilgariff? They could just let him know. And clearly, they took him up on that offer. As investigators continue working Melissa and Sheila's case, there's movement in Rashonda's case. In 2013, 23 years after she was last seen alive, John Agroyd pleads no contest to Rashonda Pickles' murder. This means that he neither admits nor denies having anything to do with her death. And in exchange for this no contest plea, which effectively closes Rashonda's case, he agrees to never pursue being paroled.
40:55 Georgia Hardstark? Wow. Like a literal deal with the devil.
40:58 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. The plea is sealed for a long time, so we still don't know the details on why he does this, but it means he'll live the rest of his life behind bars.
41:06 Georgia Hardstark? It just feels so like this little girl was not important enough to pursue justice. It's like, let's use this as a throwaway bargaining chip. But unfortunately, it's the best possible.
41:20 Karen Kilgariff? Well, yeah.
41:21 Georgia Hardstark? Because everything's been so fucked, it's the best possible, you know, resolution.
41:26 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. And it's not, it's a bargaining chip, but it's not a throwaway because it actually works.
41:30 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
41:30 Karen Kilgariff? So there is that. But yes, the idea that he is not in some way forced to tell them.
41:36 Georgia Hardstark? Right. Where the, where her body is.
41:38 Karen Kilgariff? Admit it.
41:39 Georgia Hardstark? What he did to her.
41:40 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. The answers for both Melissa and Sheila. Just don't have to be given.
41:45 Georgia Hardstark? And they've just been completely discarded by society.
41:47 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
41:47 Georgia Hardstark? It's just horrifying.
41:49 Karen Kilgariff? It feels like that whole metric needs to be readjusted to not like, what do we do just to keep them behind bars? Cause like, we have to do whatever it takes. And it's like, no, just do whatever it takes to actually get the information out of him. Just a few years later, in December 2016, John Arthur Ackroyd dies in prison at age 67, taking many secrets, you know, presumably, including the location of his own stepdaughter's body to the grave. So today, investigators suspect that John Arthur Ackroyd might be behind other unsolved cases in Oregon, many of which involve remains found near Highway 20.
42:27 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
42:28 Karen Kilgariff? This includes the 1976 cold case involving a victim found near the highway who was only known at the time as Swamp Mountain Jane Doe for decades, cause where she was found. Just days before this recording in September of 2025, police have announced genetic genealogy has now identified this person as Marion McHorder.
42:49 Georgia Hardstark? Holy shit.
42:50 Karen Kilgariff? So they just figured out who this Jane Doe was.
42:53 Georgia Hardstark? Oh my God, chills.
42:54 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, yeah. So for the families of his victims, the wounds will never heal. Rashonda Pickles' beloved brother Byron never stopped fighting for justice for his little sister. He keeps her memory alive by telling his children about Aunt Channy, which was her nickname, and he has a tattoo of her on his arm.
43:12 Georgia Hardstark? Byron.
43:13 Karen Kilgariff? Mm-hmm. Sheila's brother Bart Swanson has also been her biggest advocate over the years, helping to keep interest in her case alive. And he tells the Oregonian, maybe sometimes visits the location where her body was found, saying, quote, "I go up there to, you know, pretty much remind myself that I still haven't let it go, and to let her know that I haven't let it go." Marlene Gabrielson has had to live with the trauma of being sexually assaulted and not being believed by the people who are supposed to fight for her after her attack. She tells The Oregonian, quote, "I figured it was because I was nothing. I wasn't ever going to amount to anything. I was brown and I was ugly. So you know, you're not going to amount to anything. You don't think you are. I think that's why I cowered so much
43:57 Karen Kilgariff? back then. My first thought when I read that message," and she means from Noelle Crombie's, the reporter that reached out to her, "was, why would she care? Because that's the whole mindset that I've had about this thing from the gate. But that's what made me come, because there was somebody who actually cared. This makes me feel really good, because there's a reason I am here, and I guess I am not that ugly, and I'm not worthless. I'm Marlene K. Gabrielson. I'm Inupiat. I'm a strong woman."
44:28 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my fucking god.
44:29 Karen Kilgariff? And that's the story of the investigation into John Arthur Ackroyd and those cases linked to Highway 20.
44:36 Georgia Hardstark? It's these, when everyone is just in the media, like, why do women love true crime so much? It's so like, what's wrong with you that you're interested? And it's like, because this is how little we have mattered for so fucking long. If you think it's that different now, then you're not paying attention.
44:56 Karen Kilgariff? Then, then, please log on to any website and check out what our bodily autonomy status is.
45:03 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
45:04 Karen Kilgariff? But also-
45:04 Georgia Hardstark? Like, we're interested because we care. Can you imagine caring that much?
45:07 Karen Kilgariff? But also, we're interested because it's about us. And especially, like in Marlene's case, the more marginalized you are-
45:14 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
45:15 Karen Kilgariff? -the more you're affected and the less people help you. So, we as white women care and get upset-
45:20 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
45:21 Karen Kilgariff? But it's like, but as you go and you're more marginalized and you're less represented and you're less empowered, people care less and less.
45:27 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
45:28 Karen Kilgariff? Until people literally are like, oh, you came here to report a rape and we're going to fucking polygraph you-
45:34 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
45:35 Karen Kilgariff? -your throwaway.
45:36 Georgia Hardstark? Bullshit.
45:37 Karen Kilgariff? It's like, we have to care 10 times as much because we're cared about as women 10 times less. And also, it's like, guess what? Women are 50% of the fucking population, if not 51. So our caring is like, everybody can just stop asking that question. You just accept the fact that women are concerned and care, and it's about themselves as much as it's about other women, because we have to for each other. That's the idea.
46:03 Georgia Hardstark? Exactly. We're the targets.
46:06 Georgia Hardstark? Wow. I don't want to do my story now because it is so different from that. Well. Great job.
46:12 Karen Kilgariff? Thank you. What do you mean? This is what we do. Have you seen that big lit up, lit up number? Come on.
46:18 Georgia Hardstark? Balloon.
46:19 Karen Kilgariff? We got balloons, for God's sake.
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46:52 Georgia Hardstark? As an adult, making dinner isn't the hard part.
46:54 Karen Kilgariff? The hard part is deciding what to make every single night for the rest of your life.
46:57 Georgia Hardstark? But with Hungry Root, you can make that decision a whole lot easier.
47:01 Karen Kilgariff? Hungry Root is like having your own personal shopper and nutritionist all wrapped up into one. They'll take care of weekly grocery shopping and recommend groceries and meals tailored to you.
47:10 Georgia Hardstark? Once you tell them about your goals and preferences, they fill your cart with personalized recommendations. And those recommendations get smarter as Hungry Root learns more about what you did or didn't like.
47:20 Karen Kilgariff? Most of Hungry Root's recipes can be made in just 15 minutes or less. I mean, of course, it's always great to have delicious and very healthy groceries delivered to your house, which they can do. But I love the fact that Hungry Root will also just make you dinner so you can have it sitting there waiting. They make a classic chicken, corn, and Mexican rice bowl, and they have all kinds of variations on those themes. So that's one that I love to reach for. And all these options so you're getting really healthy meals.
47:47 Georgia Hardstark? For a limited time, get 40% off your first order plus get a free item in every box for life.
47:52 Karen Kilgariff? Go to hungryroot.com/mfm. And use code MFM.
47:55 Georgia Hardstark? That's hungryroot.com/mfm, code MFM to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. Goodbye.
48:04 Karen Kilgariff? We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.
48:08 Georgia Hardstark? You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next, and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork and trying to figure out who to call.
48:17 Karen Kilgariff? Research shows patients spend the equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month coordinating their own care.
48:23 Georgia Hardstark? Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.
48:27 Karen Kilgariff? That's why there's Solace Health.
48:29 Georgia Hardstark? Solace provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience and can help you get answers fast.
48:35 Karen Kilgariff? Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle the logistics while you focus on your health.
48:41 Georgia Hardstark? They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options, and understanding doctor recommendations.
48:47 Karen Kilgariff? Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.
48:53 Georgia Hardstark? Advocacy improves outcomes, and Solace advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.
48:57 Karen Kilgariff? Eligibility varies by insurance plan.
48:59 Georgia Hardstark? Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice or services. Must be 18 years or older.
49:04 Karen Kilgariff? Go to solacehealth.com/murder to see if you qualify.
49:07 Georgia Hardstark? It takes about two minutes, and it's covered by insurance.
49:10 Karen Kilgariff? That's S-O-L-A-C-E health.com/murder. Goodbye. You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium.
49:18 Georgia Hardstark? Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.
49:20 Karen Kilgariff? Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals, powered by pure Epsom salt and natural Dead Sea salt, it's designed to help you relax and get in the right state of mind for a good night's rest.
49:30 Georgia Hardstark? If you need a reset after a crazy day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine. It's an effortless way to get a boost of topical magnesium that can help you relax your body and mind before bedtime.
49:42 Karen Kilgariff? Dr. Teal's magnesium spray comes in a lightweight, fast-drying formula.
49:45 Georgia Hardstark? Just shake it up and generously spritz onto the soles of your feet and massage until absorbed.
49:50 Karen Kilgariff? I was kind of blown away the first time I used this spray because I do have problems sleeping. And when there's something this simple, you just sprayed on your feet, and suddenly you're asleep, and the next morning you're like, wait, what happened? Did my problem just get solved? Like, it actually is that easy.
50:05 Georgia Hardstark? And your stinky feet now smell like lavender. Like, what more do you want?
50:08 Karen Kilgariff? How dare you call my feet stinky?
50:10 Georgia Hardstark? For wellness, you can feel find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle.
50:16 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
50:18 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
50:19 Karen Kilgariff? You know, changing it up is what we're all about.
50:21 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, great job.
50:22 Karen Kilgariff? Thank you.
50:23 Georgia Hardstark? That was an incredible story. I'd never heard before and I'm shocked and horrified.
50:26 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, it's so horrifying. I really liked, you know, our producer Molly suggested like just doing straight up true crime.
50:33 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, for a 500.
50:34 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, and just, you know, like a classic and Maren did an amazing job.
50:40 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, that was incredible.
50:41 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
50:42 Georgia Hardstark? All right, well, mine is not, well, mine is true crime, really.
50:47 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, yeah?
50:47 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, you know what it is? Because we're gonna start in Sherman Oaks or Beverly Hills, depending on who's fucking arguing about zip codes.
50:56 Karen Kilgariff? Do people in Sherman Oaks think they in any way live in Beverly Hills?
51:00 Georgia Hardstark? No, but there's like a weird zip code dispute going on that we're not getting into.
51:04 Karen Kilgariff? I'm gonna get into it myself.
51:06 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, we're in Sherman Oaks, technically, at 5:00 a.m. on the morning of December 20th, 2008. Remember 2008?
51:14 Karen Kilgariff? I do. A very innocent time.
51:16 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, very stupid. A security guard in the gated community of the Mulholland Estates has just realized that something is amiss at one of the mansions in the neighborhood. When the guard gets to the front door, he sees that it's opened. No one appears to be in the house, but he can tell the house has been ransacked. He calls the police and once they arrive, it becomes clear that burglars have taken a whopping $2 million worth of jewelry and watches from this estate.
51:45 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
51:46 Georgia Hardstark? In today's money, that $2 million would be...
51:50 Karen Kilgariff? You said it was 2008?
51:52 Georgia Hardstark? Mm-hmm.
51:52 Karen Kilgariff? So that's 20, a little less than 20 years ago?
51:55 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
51:57 Karen Kilgariff? Two mil?
51:58 Georgia Hardstark? In today's money...
51:59 Karen Kilgariff? 3.5?
51:59 Georgia Hardstark? Three, but great job.
52:01 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, I'm getting closer.
52:02 Georgia Hardstark? That was so close. Yeah, that was great. Police look at surveillance footage, which shows what appears to be a man in a sweatshirt, you know, who's the burglar, and they say the person seems to know the house well. What police do not know yet is that this burglar is not a professional who's been casing the joint, and also, the mansion doesn't belong to just any old person. It's Paris Hilton's home.
52:24 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
52:25 Georgia Hardstark? And it's been hit three times before by this same group of burglars.
52:31 Karen Kilgariff? The Bling Ring.
52:32 Georgia Hardstark? That's right, Karen. That's why I was like, I can't do this now. It's literally called The Bling Ring.
52:38 Karen Kilgariff? Yes. No, this is what we like. It's a, we do hot and cold, yin and yang, back and forth.
52:43 Georgia Hardstark? Yes, yes.
52:44 Karen Kilgariff? The full scope of life.
52:45 Georgia Hardstark? We're a fucking paradox. This group, mostly teenagers, would go on to burglarize their homes of celebrities for close to a year before finally being caught. This is a story about obsession with celebrity and status, but maybe also a story about how our teenage selves aren't necessarily the people we are forever. But our mistakes sure are. This is the story of The Bling Ring.
53:09 Karen Kilgariff? The Bling Ring.
53:10 Georgia Hardstark? Did you ever watch the documentary about it?
53:12 Karen Kilgariff? No, I just watched the movie movie.
53:14 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, got it. Well, the main sources for the story is a Vanity Fair article that was written by a woman named Nancy Jo Sales called The Suspects Were Lewbatons. And that was the basis for the Sofia Coppola movie, The Bling Ring. And there's also a 2023 HBO documentary called The Ringleader. And then another documentary that I watched called The Real Bling Ring: Hollywood Heist. And then also a short-lived e-reality show called Pretty Wild. And the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes.
53:42 Karen Kilgariff? This movie, when I saw it, it's like that kind of thing where you, I don't like thinking about other people's families sometimes because I'm like, it's just very Irish Catholic to me, but I'm like, they're not doing it right. It's not how you're supposed to do it.
53:54 Georgia Hardstark? So you think like the teenagers were raised wrong or what?
53:57 Karen Kilgariff? Yes. Leslie Mann plays this mom and she just.
53:59 Georgia Hardstark? She's so amazing. Like, you don't even have to say more about what Leslie Mann played because I fucking know who she, you know what I mean?
54:04 Karen Kilgariff? Yes. But there was a part where she's like, she doesn't care if the girls go to school. She just wants them to work on their like affirmation manifestation boards.
54:12 Georgia Hardstark? I know the mother you're literally talking about. I know who you're talking about. And I watched a little bit of like the reality stuff and I felt the same way about her.
54:21 Karen Kilgariff? You're just like, get this stomach ache of like.
54:23 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, no.
54:23 Karen Kilgariff? Not, it's either they don't have a chance in the world or the world doesn't have a chance against people like this.
54:28 Georgia Hardstark? Totally. Yeah, it very much made me go, wow, I'm so glad I don't have teenage daughters. Like, I just, ah, yeah. I love that Leslie Mann playing the mom. Okay.
54:38 Karen Kilgariff? She's really good.
54:39 Georgia Hardstark? She's so good. Okay. To understand The Bling Ring, we really have to go back to the celebrity media landscape of the early 2000s because it is so fucking different than it is now. And thank God, there's like kind of a reckoning happening, but it was so trashy and so. Awful and so insidious and so, you know, damaging to our psyche back then.
55:01 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
55:01 Georgia Hardstark? For sure.
55:02 Karen Kilgariff? Horrifying.
55:03 Georgia Hardstark? Right? So like, at this time in the early 2000s, Us Magazine goes from being a monthly industry-focused magazine to being a weekly magazine focusing squarely on celebrities. So actually, Sofia Coppola cites this as the inciting incident that fomented the culture that resulted in the robberies because of this magazine.
55:22 Karen Kilgariff? That makes sense.
55:23 Georgia Hardstark? The magazine and most of the ones that quickly copied it was full of paparazzi photos of celebrities. Some of them actual movie stars, some of them reality stars, some people whose names you know, but you're not even sure why. Like, this is when Paris Hilton became famous for just being Paris Hilton and which, you know, launched just so many celebrities who were just...
55:45 Karen Kilgariff? They didn't really do any... It wasn't like they were talents. It wasn't like, oh, my god, what a great actor. Now I want to see them at the gas station.
55:51 Georgia Hardstark? No.
55:52 Karen Kilgariff? It was just fame.
55:53 Georgia Hardstark? Which also meant to a lot of younger people that they could possibly do that as well.
55:57 Karen Kilgariff? Absolutely.
55:58 Georgia Hardstark? You know what I mean? Like, there was an opportunity just to be famous for being famous.
56:02 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, that was simultaneous with like, American Idol kind of TV shows where literally it was just like, you can.
56:08 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
56:08 Karen Kilgariff? You can go stand in line out in front of CBS and see if you can.
56:12 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
56:12 Karen Kilgariff? I remember getting a job in the late 90s, writing those... They used to do like, basically Fashion Police. I think it was called Fashion Police. And it was just like, they would show a picture of a celebrity with a fucked up outfit on, and then there was all these commentators.
56:26 Georgia Hardstark? I remember, just tearing them apart.
56:29 Karen Kilgariff? And I did it. I did it like, for three different times, I think I did it.
56:34 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
56:35 Karen Kilgariff? And you would write like, each celebrity picture they'd give you, you had to write like, five jokes, so they'd pick one from each.
56:40 Georgia Hardstark? I remember this.
56:42 Karen Kilgariff? And the only place you could go was mean and meaner and meaner. And I remember on the third one, I went, what the fuck am I doing? And then I just didn't turn it in, and I never got asked to do it again. Where I was like, this is not like, yes, it's good to have $150, but like, what the fuck is this for?
57:00 Georgia Hardstark? Well, that's exactly it, because I was also going to say they did things like, who wore it better?
57:04 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
57:04 Georgia Hardstark? They'd show a photo of two women always wearing the same outfit and then tear one of them apart and say the other one looked amazing.
57:12 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
57:12 Georgia Hardstark? You couldn't choose both being like, looking great.
57:15 Karen Kilgariff? No.
57:16 Georgia Hardstark? Who wore it better? There was stars without makeup and then there was best and worst beach bodies.
57:21 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
57:22 Georgia Hardstark? It was so toxic.
57:24 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
57:24 Georgia Hardstark? It was just, it just, you know, created a generation of women with eating disorders, myself included.
57:30 Karen Kilgariff? Entirely. And it's the launching pad for the Facebook's hot or not.
57:35 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
57:36 Karen Kilgariff? World where women absolutely were primed to be like, oh, wait, I guess I either, I need to figure out if I'm hot or not and then try to get hot so that I'm not a not.
57:46 Georgia Hardstark? Otherwise I don't have worth at all.
57:48 Karen Kilgariff? It was everything.
57:48 Georgia Hardstark? Yes. And so, yeah, there's this frothing paparazzi culture who is just making so much money off of this. That's what it was like. And it's in this environment in 2006 that a girl named Rachel Lee and Nick Prugo first find each other as sophomores at Indian Hills High School, which caters to kids who have struggled in more traditional schools in Calabasas.
58:12 Karen Kilgariff? Rich, juvie kids.
58:14 Georgia Hardstark? Rich kids who can't, yeah. I mean, essentially, I went to one of those schools in Irvine, you know what I mean? Which like, it was called SELF and it was the like, you hate school and you're not doing well and your family doesn't force you to go to school. So this is what you have to do now to like, get to graduate.
58:30 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, so basically.
58:31 Georgia Hardstark? It was like the alternate school where PE was ping pong. So I'm pretty good at ping pong now. I only went there for like, a semester and went back to regular school because I was just like, I gotta, this, I have to do something with my life.
58:42 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
58:42 Georgia Hardstark? But it was, yeah, it was all the kids, basically it was any kid in this affluent neighborhood that had broken families.
58:50 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
58:50 Georgia Hardstark? Like really, that's all we had in common and became friends is because none of us had supervision. We were neglected. We didn't have the money that everyone else had. And so we didn't really give a shit about school.
59:02 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
59:02 Georgia Hardstark? And we were fucking teased there. We were made fun of there. We were like, I didn't want to go there. I was out, I was a total outcast.
59:09 Karen Kilgariff? Yep.
59:09 Georgia Hardstark? So why would I go? Instead you go to SELF where people are actually nice to you.
59:13 Karen Kilgariff? And you get to play some ping pong.
59:14 Georgia Hardstark? Fucking hardcore ping pong. Yeah. So I get it. And also, I became, eventually, when I was like in my early twenties, I was a lunch lady in the valley at one of these schools myself for elementary through high school. And these were the sweetest, most wonderful kids who couldn't hack it in the LAUSD school system in the valley. And I'm telling you, more than half of them were living in group homes. So it wasn't, these were not bad kids.
59:40 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
59:41 Georgia Hardstark? They just didn't have the resources that everyone else had.
59:44 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, the support. And also, it's weird because there's some kids who have nothing but resources.
59:49 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
59:50 Karen Kilgariff? And it's not a good thing.
59:51 Georgia Hardstark? No.
59:52 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
59:52 Georgia Hardstark? It's also where I met Uncrustables. Because the kids loved them. And I was like, I'm gonna try this.
59:58 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
59:58 Georgia Hardstark? Lived off of them. Okay, so enough about me and Uncrustables. So this girl, Rachel Lee and Nick Prugo, they meet each other at this school. And they both have issues getting along with their families. Rachel had been kicked out of Calabasas High School for stealing something from another girl. And Nick was kicked out of Calabasas High School as well for excessive absences, which is like, the fact that you're just like punished for that, instead of like, what's going on in his life? That this, that he's not coming to school.
1:00:27 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
1:00:28 Georgia Hardstark? Is so horrifying to me.
1:00:29 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, it's like, so basically, there's clearly a lack of support.
1:00:33 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
1:00:34 Karen Kilgariff? And.
1:00:34 Georgia Hardstark? You're a child, and you're being held responsible for the fact that you.
1:00:37 Karen Kilgariff? That no one will get you to school on time.
1:00:39 Georgia Hardstark? Follow through. Yeah, like, maybe you have some, you know, and also, he had been a troubled kid. He had been diagnosed with ADHD. So he probably wasn't taken care of the way he needed to be.
1:00:51 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:00:51 Georgia Hardstark? You know? So I just, these kids, I feel for them. So Nick and Rachel, they feel like outsiders, and then they meet each other and just fall immediately in friendship love. Nick is gay during a time when the average high schooler hears gay slurs multiple times a day. It was very casual then. Rachel's Korean and is always felt out of place in her majority white town. And it's at a time when the beauty standard is blindingly white, and being beautiful is seen as a teenager's highest duty. So it's really depressing for them. They're both very into fashion and celebrities and the very luxury brand focused aesthetic of the era. You remember J.C. Couture, you had a whole wardrobe full of it.
1:01:32 Karen Kilgariff? My whole ass was covered in that brand. But also, I think there's, you know, especially in the valley.
1:01:37 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:01:37 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, that's like the valley in Beverly Hills.
1:01:40 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
1:01:40 Karen Kilgariff? That's the center of like materialistic, kind of like, here's what anybody cares about. Like, what kind of car do you drive?
1:01:47 Georgia Hardstark? And it's aspirational. You could easily become part of that world if you play your cards right.
1:01:52 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:01:52 Georgia Hardstark? You know? As Rachel will put it many years later, quote, "I felt this insatiable energy to have as much as I could have, but that was kind of the energy back then," end quote. And so Rachel and Nick quickly form a deep, all-consuming friendship. Remember those fucking friendships from high school that were so amazing? They're always talking or texting or I Am-ing each other, and they just find this like kindred spirit in each other. So sometime in 2007, Nick and Rachel start burglarizing homes.
1:02:22 Georgia Hardstark? I just, I don't know why. Like, I feel for them, and I feel like, by the grace of God, there goes moi, you know? Not burglarizing, just doing really fucking stupid shit.
1:02:33 Karen Kilgariff? Stupid shit.
1:02:33 Georgia Hardstark? In a time when stupid shit sticks to you.
1:02:35 Karen Kilgariff? Permanent record stuff.
1:02:36 Georgia Hardstark? Exactly. Early 90s, you can't track my shit.
1:02:38 Karen Kilgariff? But, hold on, how did they get to that?
1:02:41 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
1:02:42 Karen Kilgariff? Because that's insane.
1:02:43 Georgia Hardstark? Here's what happened. It's kind of brilliant. They find out that a classmate is going to be out of town with their family. It's a rich as fuck family, and so they go there when they know no one's gonna be home. And they break in. At this classmate's house, they find a box with thousands of dollars of cash in it. It's originally reported as $8,000, but it gets bandied about. Maybe it was over $20,000. In today's money, it could have been worth about $40,000. But they find it and they take it and they go on a shopping spree on Rodeo Drive with it. And I fucking get this thing of like, how come everyone, I, because I used to shoplift when I was a kid. I will say that right now. You can't fucking come get me. Or come fucking get me if you want, but I was underage. I used to shoplift, and it was this...
1:03:28 Georgia Hardstark? This feeling of like, I deserve this. Everyone else in my affluent community has everything they want. I get made fun of for not, I fucking deserve this.
1:03:40 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
1:03:41 Georgia Hardstark? Which clearly isn't true, but I was a child. So that's, it made absolute sense to me that like.
1:03:44 Karen Kilgariff? It'll solve the problem.
1:03:45 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, like, this is how I get mine, too. So I get that. I wrote about it in our book. So they do that hit, and then they take up this hobby that they call checking cars. And so they basically just walk by luxury cars in their neighborhood and see if the doors are unlocked. Lock your fucking doors, right? Like, as we always say. When they find one that is open, they plunder it for cash and credit cards and then go on more shopping trips with this. By their senior year of high school, the fall of 2008, they hatch a plan to start robbing celebrities' houses and decide they're going to start with Paris Hilton.
1:04:18 Karen Kilgariff? Why not?
1:04:19 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. It's so easy for them to do this. They find a subscription-based website that lists celebrity home addresses on it. And then they go to Google Earth to kind of map out the house, like see routes to get into the house. And then they go on social media and like TMZ and see the celebrity themselves saying, "I'm in Ibiza, I'm in New York filming this thing, I'm gonna be out tonight at this fucking bar." And so they just know when the celebrity's gonna be out of town. They know where they live, they know how to get in.
1:04:49 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, they can track it all. Thank you, S Magazine.
1:04:51 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, it's creepily easy for them to do this.
1:04:54 Karen Kilgariff? The innocent days of the early internet.
1:04:56 Georgia Hardstark? Right. So they study TMZ and Paris Hilton's social media and know she's gonna be out of town for a few days in October. They look at her gated community on Google Earth and they find a hill in the back of the house where they think they can get onto the property without being noticed. And it works. When they approach the front door of Paris's 8,000-square-foot Mediterranean-style mansion, they find a key under the mat. That's how safe she feels in her community.
1:05:24 Karen Kilgariff? Also, she doesn't have a house sitter?
1:05:27 Georgia Hardstark? I know, I know.
1:05:28 Karen Kilgariff? Just a richie-rich person that doesn't just have someone there?
1:05:31 Georgia Hardstark? I don't think they think about it then.
1:05:33 Karen Kilgariff? I guess they didn't.
1:05:34 Georgia Hardstark? They do now.
1:05:34 Karen Kilgariff? They didn't have to.
1:05:35 Georgia Hardstark? Right. When we go out of town at all for touring, my friend stays at our house. Not just because we have pets, but because I don't want to leave a home completely unattended. There's never not someone at my house.
1:05:45 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, we get it, we get it. No one can rob you.
1:05:49 Georgia Hardstark? They find a key under the mat and they let themselves in. On this first visit, they kind of just explore her house. They go into the nightclub room. Like, this is a very wealthy woman. Then they do, I think they do this brilliant, not brilliant, they do this very smart thing where they fish through all of her purses, because she has hundreds of beautiful purses. And she goes out all the time, and so there's just crumpled bills in every purse from all her nights out.
1:06:16 Karen Kilgariff? That's really smart.
1:06:16 Georgia Hardstark? Hundreds and hundreds and fifties, that they just, she just crams back in her purse, puts her purse back on, eventually she'll grab it again, and you know, like, she doesn't care that there are all these wadded up dollars.
1:06:27 Karen Kilgariff? She is literally filthy rich.
1:06:29 Georgia Hardstark? Exactly. So they take all of those, they say they take a lot of coke, like, they find, you know, baggies of coke in the purses, but we're, like, we don't, that's allegedly, we don't want Paris Hilton, who's the victim of this crime, we don't want to be, like, saying that she's a fucking cokehead. Seems like they were careful to make it not totally obvious that someone had been there, like, so she, I don't know if she knew at first.
1:06:50 Karen Kilgariff? She has a nightclub room, she didn't notice.
1:06:52 Georgia Hardstark? Exactly, exactly. So they take little things, like a bottle of Grey Goose on the way out, that sort of thing. They return to Paris's house two more times that fall, and they also start bringing some of their other friends and associates into the scheme, which is a bad idea.
1:07:05 Karen Kilgariff? The big mistake, yeah.
1:07:06 Georgia Hardstark? It feels a little less like a scheme, though, and more like the way teens like to break into abandoned buildings, are just kind of trying their luck, in a way.
1:07:14 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:07:14 Georgia Hardstark? And they're so unaware of the consequences that your stupid fucking actions as a teenager will bring.
1:07:20 Karen Kilgariff? Especially when what's really taking up most of your attention is, like, can I get a Chanel purse?
1:07:26 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
1:07:26 Karen Kilgariff? Can I get a label, fill in the blank, blank?
1:07:29 Georgia Hardstark? And I'm not good enough unless I have those things.
1:07:31 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:07:31 Georgia Hardstark? Absolutely. Part of this includes stealing many thousands of dollars' worth of clothing and jewelry for them to wear, like, they just want to dress the part. In the expanded group, there are some other kids from their school, some friends of friends, it kind of becomes this, like, unorganized group of people who are all doing this together. And there are a couple older adults, though. This includes a man named Roy Lopez Jr., whom one of the group knows from her job at a restaurant, and a man named Johnny Ajar, who goes by your favorite name, ever.
1:08:02 Karen Kilgariff? Johnny?
1:08:03 Georgia Hardstark? Dangerous.
1:08:06 Georgia Hardstark? Johnny Dangerous. You had the first part right.
1:08:09 Karen Kilgariff? Well, yeah.
1:08:09 Georgia Hardstark? Well, because his name is Johnny.
1:08:10 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:08:10 Georgia Hardstark? Johnny Dangerous.
1:08:12 Karen Kilgariff? That is ridiculous.
1:08:13 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:08:13 Karen Kilgariff? And what's Johnny Dangerous's deal?
1:08:15 Georgia Hardstark? You're gonna be shocked to hear this.
1:08:17 Karen Kilgariff? Okay.
1:08:17 Georgia Hardstark? He's a Hollywood promoter.
1:08:18 Karen Kilgariff? What?
1:08:21 Georgia Hardstark? I don't think anyone, everyone who doesn't live in LA knows, like, promoters, Hollywood nightclub promoters, especially back in the early 2000s and like late 90s, were just this like breed of dude.
1:08:32 Karen Kilgariff? Toothpick dude.
1:08:33 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, they were like slimy, but they could probably get you into the club, for sure, especially if you were underage.
1:08:39 Karen Kilgariff? Slimy but not unattractive?
1:08:40 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
1:08:41 Karen Kilgariff? Kind of, there's a charisma there, but also...
1:08:43 Georgia Hardstark? Because they're like businessmen.
1:08:44 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, they are.
1:08:45 Georgia Hardstark? Or they're like marketing people.
1:08:46 Karen Kilgariff? I told you about that. This is one of my favorite memories, and I'm gonna try to do it quickly.
1:08:50 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
1:08:50 Karen Kilgariff? I was turning, remember the old DMV that used to be off of Vine, above, between Sunset and Hollywood? And there's like a DMV there?
1:08:58 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
1:08:59 Karen Kilgariff? I'd always go there because there was rarely a line.
1:09:01 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:09:01 Karen Kilgariff? So I was driving in that neighborhood, and I was taking a right-hand turn in my old car. Simultaneously, there was this dude taking a left, so we were, our cars were passing, and our, we were, our window, you know, we were passing each other, and he was super good-looking, but he was like shaved head.
1:09:19 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, very clean cut, like, sharp.
1:09:21 Karen Kilgariff? Well, this guy was like super tan, and he had a v-neck silk shirt that was open, like, way open down here, and he had a big necklace, and he had like a big ring, he had a toothpick in his mouth, and I was just like, and I was just staring at him, because I was like, who is this guy? Like, as we're passing each other, and he just very slowly puts his arm out the window and points at me. So as we're passing, he just like does one of those as we go by.
1:09:46 Georgia Hardstark? Oh my god, like acknowledging your existence.
1:09:48 Karen Kilgariff? And I was like, I love the idea of like this, he looked like a nightclub owner, or a promoter.
1:09:53 Georgia Hardstark? It's a totally different thing.
1:09:54 Karen Kilgariff? And I'm like his nerdy comic girlfriend.
1:09:56 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:09:56 Karen Kilgariff? Like, it was this idea of like how hilarious, but then he'd also like give me coke.
1:10:00 Georgia Hardstark? He would absolutely give you coke, he would get you into Ladue, which is where the nightclub of the time, like, seriously. So Johnny Dangerous was a promoter for the Hollywood nightclub, Ladue. Remember Ladue? Ladux? Ladux?
1:10:10 Karen Kilgariff? Ladue.
1:10:11 Georgia Hardstark? Ladue.
1:10:11 Karen Kilgariff? I remember it, but I don't know what it looked like.
1:10:13 Georgia Hardstark? It was on the hills all the time. Like that's where they all went to or worked or whatever. So it was a big deal and he'd get these underage kids who are not famous people into Ladue. He was the promoter, the big Hollywood promoter.
1:10:27 Karen Kilgariff? It feels like a lost, the cultures being lost.
1:10:30 Georgia Hardstark? I'm sure it's still there. We could go to Hollywood right now and meet four promoters within 20 minutes.
1:10:34 Karen Kilgariff? And we'd be like, hey, and they'd be like, I can't see you. You're over 25.
1:10:39 Georgia Hardstark? No, you're a mom.
1:10:40 Karen Kilgariff? You're not invited.
1:10:41 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, there's no MILFs. Okay. So Roy, the other guy is actually the one captured on security footage in the December Paris Hilton burglary. And that ends up being the one to first be publicized. Johnny Dangerous mostly acts as a fence, like buying the stolen goods to sell them because the kids can't. Are they going to go into a pawn shop with Paris Hilton's fucking like heirloom family jewelry and sell it on the market? No.
1:11:06 Karen Kilgariff? I just thought about Paris Hilton coming home from Ibiza or whatever it is and being like, hey, I put $8,000 in this purse.
1:11:14 Georgia Hardstark? Sure.
1:11:15 Karen Kilgariff? Wait a second. Did Nikki borrow this purse?
1:11:19 Georgia Hardstark? And then Nick later says, sweet Nick, he says, quote, he gave us $5,000 for like 10 Rolexes, which I guess is a ripoff now that I think about it, end quote. How much is a Rolex worth?
1:11:30 Karen Kilgariff? $50,000, aren't they?
1:11:32 Georgia Hardstark? And so 10 Rolexes, these, like, that just shows how naive and young they are. He was like, here's $5,000 and they're like, oh my God.
1:11:39 Karen Kilgariff? Thank you so much.
1:11:40 Georgia Hardstark? So incredible. Yeah, exactly. It's a bit muddy regarding like when each of the members of the bling ring get involved. It's very loose. It's clear that.
1:11:49 Karen Kilgariff? There's no official history.
1:11:50 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, you're not going to believe it. It's clear that the network expands quickly between Rachel and Nick's first burglary in October and the fourth one in December. Since Rachel and Nick didn't actually really even know the guy Roy, the one who was in the security footage. It's almost like.
1:12:04 Karen Kilgariff? Some guy heard about it too.
1:12:06 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. So it's not actually a group. And then the burglars continue over the course of the entire school year and into the summer with various members of this group, but always Rachel and Nick. So they kind of are the ringleaders, I guess you could say.
1:12:19 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:12:19 Georgia Hardstark? In February of that year, Rachel and Nick robbed the home of Adrena Patridge, one of the stars of The Hills.
1:12:25 Karen Kilgariff? Adrena Partridge.
1:12:27 Georgia Hardstark? It says Patridge in everything I've read and I always thought it was Partridge.
1:12:31 Karen Kilgariff? It is Partridge.
1:12:32 Speaker 04 I think it's Patridge.
1:12:33 Karen Kilgariff? What was she on?
1:12:34 Georgia Hardstark? The Hills.
1:12:34 Speaker 04 The Hills.
1:12:35 Georgia Hardstark? Have eyes.
1:12:35 Speaker 04 Iconic TV show, The Hills.
1:12:37 Georgia Hardstark? Heard of it? I did, I watched the shit out of it. Literally until I read this research by Ally, I would have said Partridge. And then I saw that, I saw it in the Vanity Fair article, it's spelled Patridge. By the way, I want to leave all of this in. And Audrina, if you're a murderino, we are so sorry.
1:12:55 Speaker 04 I wouldn't dare edit it out.
1:12:56 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you, Molly.
1:12:58 Karen Kilgariff? It's clearly gold.
1:12:59 Georgia Hardstark? And she says, quote, "They took bags and bags of stuff. They took my great grandma's jewelry, my passport, my laptop, jeans made to fit my body to perfect shape," which like, can I get that done? I didn't know that was a thing you could do.
1:13:12 Karen Kilgariff? No, you can't. The answer's no.
1:13:14 Georgia Hardstark? God damn it. The estimated value of her stolen property was $43,000, but more than that, she is terrified from this and I think, I've never think fucking God had a break in, but I think the sense of security that you lose when that happens is just psychologically so fucked up, especially from a reality star. Like she's not, you know, a movie star that agreed to this life. I mean, she did because she's a reality star.
1:13:40 Karen Kilgariff? But she was like in high school when she agreed to it.
1:13:42 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:13:42 Karen Kilgariff? Is she the one that lived in that very glass boxy house that was up above Sunset, down by like Sunset Junction?
1:13:48 Georgia Hardstark? I don't know, how do you know that?
1:13:49 Karen Kilgariff? Because I remember, I spent a lot of time at the E-Channel.
1:13:53 Georgia Hardstark? I know that boxy house, yes.
1:13:54 Karen Kilgariff? And I remembered them, the video with the guy with the, like a hooded sweatshirt and people jumping over the fence.
1:13:59 Georgia Hardstark? Yes, totally.
1:14:00 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, and it's like, that's when I realized like, oh, that's right, you're totally exposed if people know where you live.
1:14:06 Georgia Hardstark? Right, exactly. Actually, and she shares the footage of this robbery right away with the police and media and it's pretty clear, you can see Nick and Rachel in it, but nothing comes of that until later, so. The group hits Rachel Bilson's house in May from the OC. They have a trend, right? Rachel Bilson's from the OC, right?
1:14:26 Karen Kilgariff? I think so.
1:14:27 Georgia Hardstark? I'm from literally the OC and I don't remember where I'm still from. Then in July, they hit Orlando Bloom's house, mostly because his girlfriend at the time is Miranda Kerr and she has really fucking good clothes. So they hit his house. That night, they allegedly steal $500,000 in Rolex watches, allegedly, which is probably two Rolex watches.
1:14:46 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, exactly.
1:14:47 Georgia Hardstark? Louis Vuitton luggage, artwork. I mean, it seems like they just have all the time in the world in these houses and they take advantage of it.
1:14:54 Karen Kilgariff? And also all the choices in the world, because this is like, rich people like having too much money and collecting stuff.
1:15:00 Georgia Hardstark? And not having security.
1:15:02 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:15:03 Georgia Hardstark? You know?
1:15:04 Karen Kilgariff? Or a house sitter.
1:15:05 Georgia Hardstark? A house sitter, security, a fucking dog, a rottweiler with knives taped to it, like anything.
1:15:12 Karen Kilgariff? Plants that someone has to come in water twice a day, like something.
1:15:15 Georgia Hardstark? The Orlando Bloom robbery is where 18-year-old Alexis Niers claims she comes into the story. And she's the daughter of the like, secret manifestation mother.
1:15:25 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
1:15:25 Georgia Hardstark? So she claims this when she comes into the story. She says she's a drag along. And it's like, I don't know, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly.
1:15:32 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, if there's a group of kids that are going around robbing celebrities' houses, you're gonna want to tell all the kids at school that you're out in front and you're the leader of the gang. And then, once you get caught, you're gonna be like, I barely even understood what was happening.
1:15:46 Georgia Hardstark? Exactly.
1:15:47 Karen Kilgariff? And I do think, sorry, but I do think that I remember them trying to turn that story with the Adrena Partridge's break-in, because they were talking about how scared she was, where it's like, the times I've sat at my house in the middle of the night with the dogs barking, thinking someone is breaking into my house. And it is the fucking scariest thing. And of course, it was raccoons or whatever, but like, a horrible threat, a horrible thing to go to, even if you're not home. That means someone actually did it and it was there.
1:16:13 Georgia Hardstark? The violation of someone walking through this place that's like your sanctuary that you created, especially when you're a famous person, to get away from all of that. And it's not safe and nothing's safe and they've taken your grandma's jewelry, like I totally.
1:16:28 Karen Kilgariff? Horrible.
1:16:28 Georgia Hardstark? Can't imagine.
1:16:29 Karen Kilgariff? But then, yeah, it's cute when you know it's these teenagers that are being rebels.
1:16:33 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, well, she initially was like, I couldn't believe it when I saw the footage because I figured, like, I was also terrified that it was these, like, big scary men.
1:16:40 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:16:41 Georgia Hardstark? It wasn't, but it was still confusing. Yeah, yeah. So Alexis, this 18 year old, had known Nick and Rachel from Indian Hills High School, but she had dropped out to pursue modeling. And she's, at the time, being homeschooled by her mother, Andrea Leslie Mann. Specifically Andrea says she is basing her curriculum around the movie, not the book, The Secret.
1:17:03 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:17:04 Georgia Hardstark? The family believes firmly in the law of attraction and frequently says, quote, "And so it is."
1:17:11 Karen Kilgariff? Wow.
1:17:11 Georgia Hardstark? That's their like, "Hey, I want to be famous. And so it is." Which is so culty. Isn't it culty?
1:17:17 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, it's so LA. It's so, and because sometimes it works. And it's like,
1:17:22 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:17:22 Karen Kilgariff? Sometimes it works. And if you're delusional enough and
1:17:25 Georgia Hardstark? Right, to believe that's why.
1:17:26 Karen Kilgariff? Petite and hot enough, I guess, or whatever.
1:17:28 Georgia Hardstark? And then think you earned it because you did that and they didn't. And it's like, well, you should, yeah, it's just
1:17:32 Karen Kilgariff? And so it is.
1:17:33 Georgia Hardstark? Petite and hot enough. And you live in the, what are those apartments, the Oakwoods?
1:17:37 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
1:17:38 Georgia Hardstark? And you're just like, all you want is to make it.
1:17:41 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:17:41 Georgia Hardstark? Whatever that means.
1:17:43 Karen Kilgariff? God.
1:17:43 Georgia Hardstark? There's no negative in making it. That's the idea. It's like, there's no, like, you can't do anything bad if it results in you making it because it was worth it.
1:17:51 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, no matter what.
1:17:53 Georgia Hardstark? Is it? Alexis's best friend is a 19 year old named Tess Taylor, and she lives in the house as well. Andrea treats her like another daughter. And then they're the ones who end up having that reality show, Pretty Wild, for a short time. The way it's presented on the reality show, Alexis and Taylor are very focused on becoming famous. And Andrea, the mother, is even more focused on this, Leslie Mann. And it appears that Alexis is raised in a family that prioritizes fame and proximity to fame over everything else.
1:18:20 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
1:18:21 Georgia Hardstark? And we know this because it's all chronicled on Pretty Wild, which starts filming at the time because they are following Alexis and Tess's life as little Hell Racers in the Los Angeles club scene, like going to Ladue.
1:18:35 Karen Kilgariff? They're looking for the new Paris Hilton and Nikki. No, that's her sister.
1:18:40 Georgia Hardstark? Nicole Richie.
1:18:41 Karen Kilgariff? Nicole Richie, yes.
1:18:42 Georgia Hardstark? So it's about that at first, about their attempts at, you know, going to modeling additions and becoming famous. But it doesn't turn into that. But back to the summer of the summer. All the kids in the Bling Ring are pretty blatant with their spoils. They are photographed in celebrities' clothes on their social media with like fucking Rolexes and shit.
1:19:01 Karen Kilgariff? So stupid.
1:19:01 Georgia Hardstark? I know, I know. They brag pretty openly about it among their peers. One day, Rachel and Nick and possibly others spread out a blanket on Venice Beach and start selling stolen goods from celebrities' houses.
1:19:13 Karen Kilgariff? Guys, cry for help.
1:19:15 Georgia Hardstark? They are teenagers doing dumbass teenage shit, which is why I'm so glad I'll never have a teenage child. Just a nephew that I can be like the cool aunt to.
1:19:24 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, that's right.
1:19:25 Georgia Hardstark? So then at the end of July, TMZ re-ups the security footage from the burglary back in February at Adrena P.'s house. For some reason, she had shared it back when it happened, but for some reason now people are more interested in it. And Nick and Rachel are pretty identifiable in it. It's footage you've seen, like they really barely try to cover their faces at all. They have like hoodies on and that's kind of it. So friends are calling them about it. Rachel decides to move in with her father, who's an accountant and professional gambler who lives in Vegas to have like a low profile. But she cannot resist the pull to do that one last job.
1:19:59 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, no.
1:20:00 Georgia Hardstark? It's so classic, like you're done. You're in a different state. Go fucking.
1:20:04 Karen Kilgariff? You got out, stay out.
1:20:05 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, go be a, what's it called?
1:20:07 Karen Kilgariff? Dealer?
1:20:08 Georgia Hardstark? Yes, not a drug dealer. If you couldn't, if you're not watching this on YouTube, I was doing cards, not drugs.
1:20:13 Karen Kilgariff? She was doing poker dealer gestures.
1:20:15 Georgia Hardstark? One night in August, one of the members of the ring, we're not sure who, calls Rachel and says, quote, "Let's go steal," end quote. The intended target is Lindsay Lohan, who pretty much is the white whale for any fashion-loving teenage burglar in the mid 2000s. Like, she's the famousest of the famousest. And the party, the most like big party girl, too.
1:20:34 Karen Kilgariff? She's a big party girl. Also, she, I think I read, and this is alleged, so don't hold against me, but there was a lot of stories about her taking clothing, really expensive clothing.
1:20:45 Georgia Hardstark? From sets?
1:20:46 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, and from places where she, I think she had probably this, she was famous and had been since she was a child.
1:20:52 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:20:53 Karen Kilgariff? And she kind of had the same disease, it sounds like.
1:20:55 Georgia Hardstark? It's like entitlement disease, yeah. Rachel makes the four-hour drive to Los Angeles in order to participate in that. She's like, "Don't go, wait for me, here I come." So that happens and then very shortly after this, the walls start closing in. Several people anonymously tip the police about the members of the Bling Ring because they fucking know them from Calabasas fucking high school or whatever.
1:21:15 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, and one of them probably like the boy she liked liked them and then she's like, you know what, I'm dropping a dime on you now.
1:21:20 Georgia Hardstark? Totally. Alexis Niers, it turns out, is one of the anonymous tipsters, which is weird because she is actually part of the group, even though she insists that she didn't know what was happening and didn't participate. In September, Nick Prugo is arrested based on one of these tips and he basically, he's a child, he confesses to not just everything, but everything and stuff the cops don't even know is related to the Bling Ring. Like, that's how sweet and innocent he is. He's just like, yes, it was me. Here's what we did. I didn't know it was illegal, or whatever it is. This includes a burglary from 90210 actor Brian Austin Green's house, which they broke into because he was dating Megan Fox, who's so fucking well dressed at the time. But the
1:22:03 Georgia Hardstark? thieves also wind up stealing a handgun from him, which is like scary. Nick turns in tons of stolen watches and jewelry and is photographed for his mugshot. And in the mugshot, he's wearing one of Orlando Bloom's t-shirts.
1:22:20 Karen Kilgariff? Jesus.
1:22:21 Georgia Hardstark? Like, they're just children. I'm not, I'm not saying that any of this is okay.
1:22:25 Karen Kilgariff? But they got away with it. I mean, like, there's a part of it that's kind of delightful.
1:22:29 Georgia Hardstark? Totally, totally. Nick calls Rachel after his publicizer arrest and even though rationally, she knows he got arrested and she's probably like, I shouldn't talk to him when he's calling me. I bet this is being recorded. But she talks to him anyways and Nick casually says to her, hey, um, remind me what your dad's address is in Vegas where you're staying. Moments later, the, the police bang on her door and, yeah, find her. They search her house and find, you know, a bunch of stuff, including a nude personal photo of Paris Hilton that they had stolen, which is pretty shitty.
1:22:59 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, yeah.
1:23:00 Georgia Hardstark? You know, when Alexis is warned is-
1:23:02 Karen Kilgariff? Why doesn't Paris Hilton have a safe?
1:23:04 Georgia Hardstark? A hundred percent.
1:23:05 Karen Kilgariff? She's from the richest of the rich. Like, isn't there some sort of internal protocol with these people? I mean, the Calgarra family version of that is my dad had a big bowl that he used to put his spare change in and then we would go steal change out of the bowl.
1:23:17 Georgia Hardstark? My sister had one of those like children's lock boxes that all you had to do was like find the opening and, you know, and then I'd go buy like fucking Reese's Pieces.
1:23:26 Karen Kilgariff? Exactly.
1:23:27 Georgia Hardstark? Exactly, in quarters.
1:23:29 Karen Kilgariff? My dad would be like, "Quit stealing my quarters."
1:23:31 Georgia Hardstark? And then quit putting them. And then it's literally called The Stealing Place now. Oops, now. Okay. When Alexis' warrant is served, the E-cameras are rolling and her arrest winds up in the pilot of Pretty Wild. So suddenly they're like, "Thank fucking god we gave this girl a reality show. We have all of this." It's so cringe to watch. Like, I watched another scene and it's just cringe. The rest of the series follows her preparation for trial.
1:23:54 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
1:23:55 Georgia Hardstark? While searching, the house police find one of Rachel Bilson's purses, among other things. At this point, the fact that this rash of well-publicized Hollywood burglaries has been committed by a ring of teenagers from the valley has become in itself this hugely sensational story. No one can get enough of it. Vanity Fair writer Nancy Jo Sales covers the story mostly from Alexis's perspective as she navigates her court dates and notes that the family seems to be simultaneously treating her arrest like the scary problem it is, but also an opportunity to become famous and really lapping up the attention.
1:24:31 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, they manifested it, so you've got to live it.
1:24:34 Georgia Hardstark? At the time, too, like, all of those starlets had DUIs and all it did was make them more famous.
1:24:39 Karen Kilgariff? Yes. It was really, like you were saying, that it's weird because paparazzi, although I know they still exist, it's not the same as it was back then.
1:24:46 Georgia Hardstark? No.
1:24:46 Karen Kilgariff? Where everything was being driven by that.
1:24:49 Georgia Hardstark? It's so ugly.
1:24:49 Karen Kilgariff? It was out of control.
1:24:51 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. The article goes on to be adapted into Sofia Coppola's 2013 movie, The Bling Ring, which is one of Karen's favorites.
1:24:58 Karen Kilgariff? It's number one. That and Atonement.
1:24:59 Georgia Hardstark? That's what you cry, that's what you cry on a plane to is The Bling Ring.
1:25:03 Karen Kilgariff? Why, why are these children so amoral?
1:25:07 Georgia Hardstark? Alexis pleads no contest and is sentenced to 180 days in the county jail and she winds up serving 30 days. Nick also spends his time getting lots of interviews and doing lots of television news appearances. At the same time, Rachel, the, you know, Nick and Rachel, Rachel is saying nothing. Her mom is a lawyer.
1:25:24 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
1:25:25 Georgia Hardstark? And so she almost isn't part of the public narrative anymore, which is so smart in that, like, way of, "Don't fucking say shit and no one will care."
1:25:34 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
1:25:34 Georgia Hardstark? It'll go away.
1:25:35 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
1:25:35 Georgia Hardstark? Which is so true. The consequence of that is that in the cultural narrative... Narrative, she is portrayed by all the other kids as the ringleader. They're able to point to her and she's not denying it. So everyone goes with it. The way she tells the story now is that it was more of a foulé adieu type situation. Where she and Nick had a shared compulsion to steal.
1:25:57 Karen Kilgariff? And justify to each other. Like it's, we're doing it. It's fun. It's funny. It's, I mean, I'm sure it was fucking thrilling.
1:26:02 Georgia Hardstark? Oh my God. So fucking fun. Like the stories that they tell about it was.
1:26:07 Karen Kilgariff? And then you have eight grand in cash in your pocket. Like now I get to do, you're right. I get to have whatever lipstick I want.
1:26:12 Georgia Hardstark? And the purest Coke you've ever fucking smelled in your life.
1:26:18 Georgia Hardstark? At the trial, many of the celebrity victims testify. The prosecution builds their case around the sense of violation and fear that they felt to have their homes broken into as opposed to the actual material losses. Cause hopefully they were all insured too, you know?
1:26:33 Karen Kilgariff? They were.
1:26:33 Georgia Hardstark? They were for sure. That's why there was no security. Ultimately, all the members of the Bling Ring who are charged together plead no contest. Nick and Rachel get the stiffest sentences. Nick is sentenced to two years in prison and Rachel to four. And both serve about a year before being released on probation. Everyone else winds up getting probation and this is partially because an LAPD cop who is a major figure in the investigation is just as enamored with celebrity as the kids are. He consults on the Sofia Coppola film while the cases are still pending. Creating a big conflict of interest that lessens everyone else's sentences. So it's not just teenagers.
1:27:13 Karen Kilgariff? You know what it makes me think of is I want to re-watch LA Confidential.
1:27:16 Georgia Hardstark? Yes, such a good movie.
1:27:17 Karen Kilgariff? It's such a good movie, but that whole part with the now reviled Kevin Spacey, but that whole thing is so LA. It's like, there are totally different rules here.
1:27:27 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
1:27:27 Karen Kilgariff? And it is really acclimated to beauty and money and like, and this achievement thing.
1:27:33 Georgia Hardstark? Status and fame.
1:27:35 Karen Kilgariff? But it's, so it's like, yeah, the cops, you cannot get a cop to show up anywhere for any reason in most of LA. But you will see 25 of them standing around a set if they're shooting on Melrose. And I mean, that's just how, you just learn that. Like that's just how it works here.
1:27:50 Georgia Hardstark? Totally. Yeah. That's so true. Such a weird town.
1:27:53 Karen Kilgariff? It's so weird.
1:27:54 Georgia Hardstark? When Rachel does get out of prison, she moves back in with her mom and stepdad to a bedroom with a mattress on the floor. And a small box of belongings. I mean, she's got some stories to tell though for the rest of her life.
1:28:06 Karen Kilgariff? That's right.
1:28:07 Georgia Hardstark? She says she remembers thinking, quote, "This is all that I need in the world." Like, she was just...
1:28:14 Karen Kilgariff? Just so happy to be home.
1:28:15 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, and done with the whole thing, because getting caught up in it, you know?
1:28:19 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
1:28:19 Georgia Hardstark? All of the members of the Bling Ring now lead pretty quiet lives. Rachel is a hairstylist. It's unclear what Nick does professionally, but he's not clamoring for publicity. Alexis, though, is the, kind of, the only one who still maintains an Instagram presence. So maybe she's still looking for that elusive fame.
1:28:38 Karen Kilgariff? If I was getting my hair cut and my hairdresser was like, "I actually was the leader of the Bling Ring," I would be overjoyed in ways that...
1:28:46 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, where does she work? Because I'll leave my beloved hairdresser for her immediately. Sorry, Marissa, but like, it's the leader of the Bling Ring.
1:28:53 Karen Kilgariff? That's a great way to spend three hours of like, "And then what did you do with that watch?"
1:28:57 Georgia Hardstark? Don't ask me about what I'm watching on TV right now. Tell me everything about your fucking incredible life, Rachel.
1:29:02 Karen Kilgariff? Fascinating.
1:29:04 Georgia Hardstark? And that is the story for our 500th episode of the Bling Ring.
1:29:08 Karen Kilgariff? Genius, genius. That was great.
1:29:10 Georgia Hardstark? All props to Molly and Ally for suggesting the story. And I was like, "I don't know, it's kind of vapid and dumb. Like, is Karen doing a really good true crime? I'll only do this if, like, legitimately it's a good episode." And they were like, "It fucking is, you have to do it."
1:29:24 Karen Kilgariff? Molly's like, "Trust the process."
1:29:25 Georgia Hardstark? Trust me. I'm like, "All right, fine, I'll do the fucking Bling Ring."
1:29:27 Karen Kilgariff? Well, you know, it's interesting you say that now, because that's what I was going to say at the beginning, is it's our 500th episode, and from Stephen Ray Morris all by himself on the floor of your apartment, to this incredible staff of almost 40 people that we now have at Exactly Right. Like, we would be nowhere, and we could not have done it. And we certainly couldn't have done it to the degree that we have done it
1:29:47 Georgia Hardstark? Absolutely.
1:29:48 Karen Kilgariff? without all these people that we work with. So for our own team, thank you, Molly and Leanna and Aristotle, and just everybody, every week, that makes this podcast possible. Thank you all so much, because, you know...
1:30:02 Georgia Hardstark? It's not the two of us.
1:30:04 Karen Kilgariff? It's, in the least. And now there's like, there's two other podcasts that go along with this podcast, and there's video, and it's just like, we have team after team and people after people that really work their ass off to make it good.
1:30:16 Georgia Hardstark? It works despite us, not because of us.
1:30:18 Karen Kilgariff? I disagree. No, no, it just is like, it's just such a big old thing. It's very exciting. After 10 years and 500 episodes.
1:30:28 Georgia Hardstark? Almost 10 years and 500. That's so wild.
1:30:30 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, the way it's grown. It's crazy.
1:30:32 Georgia Hardstark? Turned, we really fucking bling ring this, the podcasting industry, didn't we?
1:30:36 Karen Kilgariff? What we did was we checked the podcast industry's doors. A couple of them were unlocked.
1:30:40 Georgia Hardstark? That's right. And we broke in and we stole some Grey Goose. We went through their shit and we fucking.
1:30:46 Karen Kilgariff? They don't need this 40 grand in cash.
1:30:48 Georgia Hardstark? Yes, but what a joy. And of course, to the listeners, to the murderinos, to our fucking people. Obviously, this couldn't have happened without you, but you've made it into this incredible thing that we could never, ever tell you how grateful we are for the lives that we get to lead now because of you guys listening to this podcast.
1:31:06 Karen Kilgariff? And thinking that we're your best friends.
1:31:08 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, because we are.
1:31:09 Karen Kilgariff? Because we are.
1:31:10 Georgia Hardstark? Fucking run you down on the, in the street to honk at you.
1:31:13 Karen Kilgariff? That's right. We will stick our whole arm and perhaps our head out the window to make sure you know that we see you.
1:31:19 Georgia Hardstark? And we appreciate it. Our lives 500 episodes ago, I, we're so different.
1:31:25 Karen Kilgariff? They were very different.
1:31:26 Georgia Hardstark? It really is a beautiful place to be. So thank you guys so fucking much.
1:31:29 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, it's magical. Stay sexy.
1:31:31 Georgia Hardstark? And don't get murdered.
1:31:33 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
1:31:35 Georgia Hardstark? Elvis, do you want a cookie?
1:31:44 Karen Kilgariff? This has been an Exactly Right production.
1:31:46 Georgia Hardstark? Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.
1:31:49 Karen Kilgariff? Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
1:31:51 Georgia Hardstark? This episode was mixed by Leona Scolacci.
1:31:53 Karen Kilgariff? Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ally Elkin.
1:31:56 Georgia Hardstark? Email your hometowns to [email protected] .
1:31:59 Karen Kilgariff? Follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder.
1:32:01 Georgia Hardstark? Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:32:06 Karen Kilgariff? And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page. While you're there, please like and subscribe. Goodbye.
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