305. Caught by the Algorithm: How Geo-Fencing Solved a Murder

On this episode, Garrett and Payton explore the murder of Mitchell Jones Jr. and how a missing cell phone became the key to finding his killer. Links:Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/murderwithmyhusbandPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderwithmyhusband NEW MERCH LINK: https://mwmhshop.com Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7?si=f5224c9fd99542a7 Case Sources: AJC.com - https://www.ajc.com/news/local/cops-use-location-data-solve-fatal-cobb-stabbing/m8EoRZ78PnHICOz3PBhOgL/ Fox5Atlanta.com - https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/da-technology-links-suspect-to-bloody-cobb-county-murder CobbCountyCourier.com - https://cobbcountycourier.com/2020/01/geofencing-technology-leads-to-arrest-and-life-sentence-in-austell-murder/ WSBTV.com - https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/murder-case-goes-unsolved-months-until-now-thanks-cellphone-data/IBDH236Y2NEY5P2ANV6KXEZR64/ Oxygen.com - https://www.oxygen.com/the-real-murders-of-atlanta/crime-news/dunte-holmes-murdered-mitchell-jones-jr-in-atlanta-why BurtonQuinnScott.com - https://www.burtonquinnscott.com/obituaries/mitchell-jones-jr 11Alive.com - https://www.11alive.com/article/news/crime/technology-leads-police-to-killer-who-will-now-serve-life/85-165784c9-2907-40d7-8811-35c2664d47fe CobbCounty.gov - https://www.cobbcounty.gov/courts/news/technology-led-police-killer-who-will-now-serve-life A&E’s Witness to Murder - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzR5cgoXyPg Peacock and Oxygens - Real Murders of Orange County - https://www.peacocktv.com/watch/playback/vod/GMO_00000000394555_01/54a37b5f-3685-39bf-8c85-44608454ce82?orig_ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F InfoCrime.data.blog -https://infocrime.data.blog/2020/03/16/bloodshed-and-big-tech-how-google-helped-police-catch-a-killer/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

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• 0:21Speaker 01

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• 0:50Payton Moreland?

  You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Payton Moreland.

• 0:57Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm Garrett Moreland.

• 0:58Payton Moreland?

  And he's the husband.

• 0:59Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm the husband.

• 1:00Payton Moreland?

  And.

• 1:01Garrett Moreland?

  Happy Monday.

• 1:01Payton Moreland?

  What? Okay. Like, people could be watching this on Netflix.

• 1:06Garrett Moreland?

  Happy Monday. Thank you for being here, tuning in on Netflix. A little different, but we're gonna try not to think about it. It's just a regular episode, a regular week, the regular day.

• 1:17Payton Moreland?

  Okay, wait. Chill, okay. If you're listening and you have no idea what you're, we're talking about, or you're watching and you're like, huh? Garrett and I's podcast is now available on Netflix. So there might be new people listening, or there might be some OG listeners who have also transferred over. Now, if you are new, I'm just gonna give a quick rundown of what this is. If you randomly clicked on it and they're like, what the?

• 1:45Garrett Moreland?

  What's happening?

• 1:45Payton Moreland?

  What is going on?

• 1:47Garrett Moreland?

  I'm Garrett.

• 1:48Payton Moreland?

  And I'm Peyton and.

• 1:49Garrett Moreland?

  We're married.

• 1:50Payton Moreland?

  Yes, we are husband and wife. And six years ago, out of the blue.

• 1:55Garrett Moreland?

  We started a podcast.

• 1:56Payton Moreland?

  We started a podcast. I love true crime.

• 1:59Garrett Moreland?

  And I have always quote unquote hated it. Hated it as in, I'm not interested in it. I don't watch true crime documentaries. I don't watch or listen to anything true crime.

• 2:09Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, so I was wanting to do something in true crime. And I was telling Garrett, I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, I want to start a podcast. I just don't know who to have as a co-host because I don't want to do it alone. And he was like, well, I'll be your co-host. And I was like, Garrett. You hate true crime. Like, how would that work? And he was like, well, maybe that can be the thing. You love it and I hate it. And six years later, here we are on Netflix.

• 2:35Garrett Moreland?

  We're still here. We're still making episodes and we're so glad that you guys love it. Um, quick. So Peyton tells me a new case each week. I never know what case Peyton is telling me. I don't. I usually don't know anything about the cases unless it's a high profile case. And I've come across it on the news or on social media. But even my social media, Tik Tok, Instagram, has nothing to do with true crime. So again, I don't know anything about the cases. I am non scripted. I don't have any scripts, any parts at all.

• 3:08Payton Moreland?

  Yeah. And I just do the research. I basically create a research paper. And then give a summary overview of a different case each week to Garrett. And you get his perspective from someone who absolutely hates true crime. And mine, as someone who has loved true crime since I can remember.

• 3:28Garrett Moreland?

  And yeah, that's basically it. We could ramble forever, but we won't. If you heard a bark, that is our dog Daisy, who is a part of the show, who's currently barking at us.

• 3:37Payton Moreland?

  She's the official mascot. But essentially the meat of the podcast is you are just getting nitty gritty details about true crime cases from someone who loves it and someone who hates it. Now, before we jump into every single episode, we do something called Garrett's 10 Seconds, which is basically Garrett's time in the podcast to number one, start us off on a lighter foot before we get into murder. And number two, eh, just venture into his world for a second because most of the script is my take on true crime. So yeah, this is his time to shine.

• 4:10Garrett Moreland?

  I'll make this pretty quick because you'll kind of get used to my 10 seconds and see a lot more of it if you keep listening. And we've already been rambling for a little bit at the beginning of the podcast. So my 10 seconds this week is, for those who have been listening, um,

• 4:28Garrett Moreland?

  I know about the podcast is I have been working on opening a bagel shop. If you don't like bagels, it's not for you and I'm sorry. But if you do like bagels, I'm opening a bagel shop. It's happening. Permit has been acquired, is in my hands. I started construction. We should be done in about eight to 10 weeks and then we'll be opening. It's crazy. I'll keep everyone updated. I know everyone's always like a bagel, bagel shop. It's going to be amazing. I'm excited. On that note, let's hop into today's case.

• 4:59Payton Moreland?

  Our sources for this episode are ajc.com, fox5atlanta.com, CobbCountycourier.com, wsbtv.com, oxygen.com, burtonquinnscott.com, 11alive.com, CobbCounty.gov, A and E's Witness to Murder, Peacock and Oxygen's Real Murders of Orange County, and infocrime data blog.

• 5:19Garrett Moreland?

  Orange County.

• 5:20Payton Moreland?

  Privacy. It's something a lot of us don't even really think about anymore, especially when it comes to what we are sharing through our phones. We offer up our location to friends and family to keep each other safe. We literally post what we're doing in our day to day lives for complete strangers to see. And sometimes we don't even know what terms we're agreeing to, like sharing our cookies and search history with private companies, all by checking one little box on a webpage. Now with technology, we've obviously surrendered a lot of our privacy, sometimes unknowingly. Sometimes we don't even really care.

• 6:01Payton Moreland?

  But usually we don't think about the consequences it might have later on. And that's the thing about cell phones and webpages and social media platforms. They are designed to keep that fine print hidden, to make you feel like your privacy is locked away in that little screen. The truth is, when we agree to a lot of these terms and conditions, privacy is honestly no longer a right, it becomes a privilege. And when you disrupt the social order, when you break the rules society has put into place, those secrets that you thought were contained in your cellphone can be used against you

• 6:44Payton Moreland?

  and in ways you didn't even know were possible. So today, I am taking you to Atlanta, Georgia, as we dial back the clock to 2018. Now, over the years, Atlanta has become a pretty major hotspot for the entertainment industry. Thanks to tax breaks and other incentives, the city has become kind of the Hollywood of the South. Production for a lot of movies and TV shows have migrated to this state, which means a lot of people pursuing their dreams in the entertainment career have as well. And that's including 31-year-old Mitchell Jones Jr.

• 7:24Payton Moreland?

  Mitchell was born in Erie, Pennsylvania on August 7, 1987. After graduating high school in 2006, he went on to study the arts at Gannon University. This was a private Catholic college in his hometown. While there, Mitchell worked at the local Christian center and had a few different sales jobs. But after graduating, there was one dream he knew he needed to pursue: acting. Mitchell decided to follow those dreams by heading south to Atlanta. He found a place just outside in Marietta, Georgia. And there, it seemed like Mitchell really blossomed. He kind of came out of his shell.

• 8:07Payton Moreland?

  He told friends he never really felt safe in Erie, but in Atlanta, he could be himself. He didn't have to hide, which was an important shift for Mitchell, who was also gay.

• 8:19Garrett Moreland?

  Um, have you seen those videos recently of all the actors, like, having to act? Like, in anything that's like action or sci-fi? Like, they're just acting in front of nothing? You know what I'm talking about?

• 8:31Payton Moreland?

  Like on the screen?

• 8:32Garrett Moreland?

  Yes, like on green screens and stuff. I could never be an actor.

• 8:36Payton Moreland?

  It does go to show you how talented they really are.

• 8:38Garrett Moreland?

  Not that it's cringey, but kinda.

• 8:40Payton Moreland?

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:41Garrett Moreland?

  Like, just playing pretend? I mean, good for them, because I could not do that. But you know what I'm talking about? Have you seen those?

• 8:47Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, like in um.

• 8:49Garrett Moreland?

  Like Stranger Things. They just, they just posted one and they were, I just.

• 8:53Payton Moreland?

  Like in Eclipse, when she's petting a guy in a green suit?

• 8:56Garrett Moreland?

  Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:57Payton Moreland?

  And pretending it's Jacob? Yeah!

• 9:00Garrett Moreland?

  And uh.

• 9:00Payton Moreland?

  Ew.

• 9:01Garrett Moreland?

  I couldn't do it.

• 9:02Payton Moreland?

  Okay, so, uh, like I said, Mitchell, he worked in a Christian center back home, but he is gay and he's now moved to uh, Atlanta and he's like, oh my gosh, I feel a lot more comfortable here. And as Mitchell established a life and started building his career in Georgia, he gained a huge circle of friends and they all said Mitchell had an incredible energy. He was a blast to be around. He was funny and lighthearted. He also dated around, but kept things mostly casual as he was focusing on acting. And everyone who knew him at this time didn't mince words when they said he was actually extremely talented.

• 9:45Payton Moreland?

  Unfortunately, not many people would get to see Mitchell's talents on the big screen because his life was cut short. That November, two thousand and eighteen. Now, it's the day after Thanksgiving, so Black Friday, November twenty-third, two thousand and eighteen. And that night, a woman named Lynette Hurt hears a commotion in the apartment next to hers. So this apartment obviously shares a wall with Mitchell Jones Jr.'s apartment. And while he sometimes plays his music a little louder than she would prefer, she actually really likes Mitchell. They're good neighbors.

• 10:27Payton Moreland?

  She's older than him, but she would cook for him. She kind of became a shoulder for him to cry on. She was sort of like an aunt to him at this point. And she's used to him having friends over and things getting a little rowdy, but for some reason, this Black Friday feels a little different. It sounds like Mitchell is actually fighting with someone in his apartment. There's yelling and banging, but Lynette doesn't want to be the nosey neighbor by knocking on Mitchell's door. It's after nine PM. She figures, okay, whatever is going on over there, it's Mitchell's business. So she just goes upstairs and heads to bed.

• 11:08Payton Moreland?

  Now about a half hour later, the local 911 operator receives a phone call. It's around 9:30 PM when a man calls and says he's hurt and he needs them to send help.

• 11:21Speaker 04

  I can't, I'm bad. Okay, tell me exactly what happened, sir. Tell me the address.

• 11:28Payton Moreland?

  He doesn't offer his name. He can't even muster the strength to give them his address. All he can say is he needs the police because he's dying. Now luckily, 911 traces the call to an address, 3400 Lori Joe Drive. Now around 10:00 PM, police and first responders enter the place easily. The front door is unlocked and they hear someone upstairs calling from the bedroom saying, "Help me." When they get up there, they find a black male lying on his bedroom floor up against a wall, covered in blood, and he keeps saying he was shot, even though his wounds to responders appear to be more like stab wounds.

• 12:13Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 12:14Payton Moreland?

  Now, this victim is in and out of consciousness. So when they ask who did this to him, he says he can't tell them his name. But the police are wondering if he can't or if he won't. So without even getting the victim's name, they rush him off to the hospital and then they find his wallet and ID. This is 31-year-old Mitchell Jones Jr. But who did this to him and why? Well, that question becomes even more pressing as the night goes on because Mitchell doesn't survive the ride to the hospital.

• 12:53Garrett Moreland?

  Gosh.

• 12:53Payton Moreland?

  He is pronounced dead before they even get there, which is so devastating to me in cases like this when a victim themselves is aware enough to try and call police and get help and police do respond, but they end up not surviving anyways. Like, I just can't, I don't like thinking about those last moments. So the police now have a homicide investigation on their hands and the silver lining is they have a good amount of blood evidence at this crime scene that might actually help them identify Mitchell's attacker. See, Mitchell had been stabbed in the face.

• 13:35Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my gosh.

• 13:36Payton Moreland?

  In his head and his torso, which meant it was unlikely he ever even made it out of the bedroom with those injuries that night. So when they find that there's blood on the wall outside of the bedroom, leading down the staircase, and then those drops of blood.

• 13:54Garrett Moreland?

  Jeez.

• 13:55Payton Moreland?

  Are on the door frame headed outside, they're pretty confident that this blood belongs to a different person because Mitchell most likely never even left his room and bled in the apartment.

• 14:08Garrett Moreland?

  We've talked about this before on the podcast. Usually when someone is stabbed many times, it's usually a case of some sort of rage or passion or something. So we'll see.

• 14:21Payton Moreland?

  Especially because Mitchell's bedroom showed signs of an intense struggle. There's broken items and things turned over in the room. Whatever happened here went down with a fight. It was very unlikely that the attacker left without injuries of their own, which could also help them potentially identify a suspect later on if they find them soon enough. But there's something else any seasoned police officer will tell you. Or Garrett, this was a crime of passion. Whenever you have a stabbing like this, it's intimate, it's close, and it's personal.

• 15:00Garrett Moreland?

  I've done too many of these cases by now. It's just, it's getting out of hand. I think I'm gonna have to quit.

• 15:06Payton Moreland?

  That theory was reinforced by a few other clues around the place. Like all of these lit candles, which made it seem like Mitchell was maybe expecting a romantic encounter that night that maybe potentially went wrong. Plus, Mitchell was in his underwear when he was found. There's no murder weapon in the house. They can find and police are very careful about collecting any blood evidence they can at the scene. They also realize when they go to look for Mitchell's phone, they can't find it, at least not the one he typically used. Mitchell did have a backup phone which he used to dial nine one one, but they discover early on that this isn't his primary device.

• 15:51Payton Moreland?

  And when they couldn't find his usual phone, they believe there was only one possibility and it was that Mitchell's attacker, whoever did this, took the phone with him.

• 16:02Garrett Moreland?

  Geez.

• 16:03Payton Moreland?

  And by the following day, the investigation was really starting to heat up. Police began canvassing the neighborhood to see if there were any other witnesses to the crime. Now, of course, they spoke with the neighbor Lynette, who heard parts of the altercation, though unfortunately, nothing she said was very useful for the investigation. And can you imagine she wakes up the next morning and police are knocking on her door like, hey, your neighbor was murdered last night? And she's like, oh, my gosh, I genuinely heard this fighting and was like, I don't want to be a nosey neighbor.

• 16:37Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, but like, how are you supposed to know, right?

• 16:39Payton Moreland?

  You don't, but just imagine that reality the next morning and how awful that would be.

• 16:45Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I mean, a lot of people would put blame on themselves, but hopefully not.

• 16:48Payton Moreland?

  No, there's not.

• 16:49Garrett Moreland?

  It's not their fault. They didn't do anything, yeah.

• 16:52Payton Moreland?

  So there is another neighbor, though, who did give police a good clue. Their property directly faced Mitchell's home and the night before they caught something on their outdoor camera. It showed a car pulling into the driveway at nine oh nine P M. And then the same car pulled out and sped off about twenty minutes after that. This was right around the time that Mitchell placed the nine one one call. Police are obviously like, okay, you literally got our killer on doorbell footage, which is pretty usual nowadays. Police couldn't get a license plate off the grainy footage. They couldn't even really tell the make and model of the car,

• 17:37Payton Moreland?

  but they were able to zoom in on the brake lights, which helped them narrow it down. And eventually they decided they were looking for a dark colored Buick Lucerne.

• 17:48Garrett Moreland?

  Which actually, that's a pretty good clue because it's not. That's not a car that everyone's driving. It's not like it's a Honda Accord or a Honda Civic.

• 17:57Payton Moreland?

  Right.

• 17:57Garrett Moreland?

  So that really does narrow things down quite a bit. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. There are plenty of reasons we put off getting support and for a lot of people, cost is one of them. With BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. And while we're reconsidering old assumptions, maybe there are a few others worth questioning too.

• 18:23Payton Moreland?

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• 18:54Garrett Moreland?

  And Peyton and I are big advocates for therapy. Give it a try. Life can be crazy. There's a lot going on. Like we were talking about, sometimes it feels like you need to have everything figured out. You don't. Go talk to someone. Go see what's going on. Visit betterhelp.com/husband to explore your payment options. That's betterhelp, H E L P dot com slash husband.

• 19:16Payton Moreland?

  This message is sponsored by Greenlight. You know, there were many times growing up in school where I was like, when am I ever going to use this? And let me be real honest with you. A lot of those things have turned out to be true. But you know what I wish they would have taught in school? Financial literacy. So Greenlight takes the mental load of family life and kind of puts it all into one place. It keeps your whole family in sync, money, safety, and everyday life, all in one place. When you're using it, you can see what your kids are spending, right when they spend it.

• 19:55Payton Moreland?

  You can also easily send them money via Greenlight instead of like digging around for cash and Greenlight just helps. Your household runs smoother chores happen without nagging because you can do it all through the Greenlight app. There's also like a schedule that is up to date in real time. So when you're out of milk or someone needs new cleats, it just goes on this shared list that everyone can add to. Join the 6.5 million family members who trust Greenlight. Garrett has younger siblings. They've used Greenlight and it is so amazing to watch them learn about money in the safety of their home. You've got enough on your plate. Greenlight keeps it all in sync. Get started at greenlight.com/husband.

• 20:39Payton Moreland?

  That is greenlight.com/husband. Greenlight.com/husband. Go check it out now. And when police looked back at the footage from days and weeks before Mitchell's death, they saw that same car pull into his driveway on a few earlier occasions. So

• 20:55Garrett Moreland?

  I don't even know what that car looks like.

• 20:56Payton Moreland?

  This is someone who had been there quite a bit, which proved to the police, Mitchell had known this person after all. Now, at this point, the police were trying to follow every lead they could. They had subpoenaed Mitchell's phone records and were waiting on them to come back. And meanwhile, they were looking into everyone Mitchell was close to just trying to figure out his life. They knew he had a big social life and that he had dated a lot, which only made their pool of potential suspects larger. But when they speak to Mitchell's mother, she says, there's one close friend Mitchell had in Atlanta that was like a sister to him, that if anyone knew the details of Mitchell's personal life, it was probably her.

• 21:37Payton Moreland?

  Her name was Jasmine. And when police speak with Jasmine, she says, there was this one guy, Mitchell was dating before he died, that was giving off a lot of red flags, that there had been some physical altercations between the two of them already, which actually fit something Mitchell's neighbor Lynette had told police too, that there was a night prior to the murder when she also heard Mitchell fighting with another man. But the following day, she saw them outside together laughing. So she was like, okay, maybe it was just a little fight. Still, police are like, this lead is worth pursuing. So they have Jasmine tell them more. She says, Mitchell and this guy had broken up a few weeks before he died.

• 22:22Payton Moreland?

  Apparently, things reached a breaking point when Mitchell kicked him out of his place one night. Problem is, Mitchell had never told Jasmine this guy's name. Apparently, they weren't all that serious because Mitchell only ever referred to him, to Jasmine, as that boy.

• 22:40Garrett Moreland?

  Interesting. I wonder if they met on like a dating website, like Tinder or something.

• 22:44Payton Moreland?

  We'll get there. Though he had shown her a few photos of this guy, the boy. And in one of those photos Mitchell sent, that boy had his shirt off and he had a lot of tattoos, including one on his arm that read, Rest in Peace Brandon, with the date of a death. So police see this photo and they see an opportunity here. They go online and they start looking for a Brandon that passed away on that specific date. And they find someone who they think could be the Brandon referred to in this mysterious tattoo. And when they look at Brandon's social media, they find that he's friends with a guy that looks exactly like

• 23:28Payton Moreland?

  that boy in the photo that Mitchell had been seeing. Police discover his name is Eric Hopkins. This being a pretty good lead, they immediately start looking into Eric's background and they find he actually has a criminal history. He had stabbed one of his previous lovers before. It was during a domestic dispute, though I'm pretty sure his partner survived. The coincidence was too much to ignore, though, so the next-

• 24:00Garrett Moreland?

  I just hate DV cases are so hard because there's almost always past like convictions or-

• 24:08Payton Moreland?

  A history of abuse.

• 24:09Garrett Moreland?

  A history of abuse. And then it sucks because they abuse, abuse, abuse, abuse, abuse, and then a lot of times they kill someone. And it's just like, what are you supposed to do about that? Frustrating.

• 24:20Payton Moreland?

  It's definitely frustrating. You want to be like, what, how was this allowed?

• 24:24Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 24:25Payton Moreland?

  Obviously, the next step was to get this Eric guy down to the station. So investigators try the nice way. They call him and ask, hey.

• 24:33Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, good luck.

• 24:34Payton Moreland?

  Do you know a man named Mitchell Jones, Jr.? And he says, yes. And when they tell him, okay, well, he was killed a week ago. Eric responds by saying, are you serious? Now, to police, he does sound genuinely shocked in those audio recordings. But he must know this doesn't look very good for him because at this point, he refuses to speak with the police and says, they're gonna have to contact his attorney. He wants nothing to do with the investigation, which honestly.

• 25:05Garrett Moreland?

  I mean, good answer, honestly.

• 25:06Payton Moreland?

  Not that dumb of him to be like, one of my past boyfriends lovers was killed and now you're calling me to ask about it?

• 25:15Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 25:15Payton Moreland?

  So this is when police realize they're gonna have to get him down to the station a different way if they actually want to talk to him. But luckily for them, Eric has violated his parole for that stabbing charge. So 10 days after the murder, they move in and force Eric down to the station for an interview. Now Eric openly admits he wasn't really in a relationship with Mitchell. They had just kind of fooled around occasionally, more of like a situationship. But the last time they spoke was a few days before the murder, so right before Thanksgiving. He denies having been to Mitchell's house that night or having anything to do with the murder. But his alibi that he gives police isn't the strongest.

• 26:00Payton Moreland?

  He says he was at a movie that night. And while the person he went with seemingly vouches for him, there's no other evidence that he was there. So police decide to take a sample of his DNA because they want to compare it to the blood found in Mitchell's home. But until they get those results back, they decide to keep pursuing Eric. Because right now, he's kind of the best lead they've got. Which is why they get a search warrant for his phone to see what he's been up to.

• 26:32Garrett Moreland?

  When they get a search warrant, um, I feel like I've asked this before and they're searching his phone. I assume they don't actually.

• 26:40Garrett Moreland?

  Do they actually like grab his phone? Or do they like grab it and make a copy of it? Do you know?

• 26:46Payton Moreland?

  Usually they confiscate the phone.

• 26:48Garrett Moreland?

  Like the actual phone? Okay.

• 26:49Payton Moreland?

  Yeah. And it, and if they have, okay, so like, say, police were responding to an overage person talking to an underage person.

• 26:59Garrett Moreland?

  Uh huh.

• 27:00Payton Moreland?

  And they show up and both those people are there, or even just the overage person is there, they will take their phone. Like on scene, they will be like, this is, you know, a part of our investigation.

• 27:10Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 27:12Payton Moreland?

  I think in this case.

• 27:13Garrett Moreland?

  I don't know.

• 27:14Payton Moreland?

  They have the warrant and I'm assuming they probably confiscated his phone.

• 27:18Garrett Moreland?

  Interesting.

• 27:19Payton Moreland?

  Now, not only do they find that Eric and Mitchell spoke many times in the two weeks before his murder, he also called a second number a lot. So this other guy in Eric's phone was named Deandre Fleming. Now, basically, they want to rule out the possibility that Eric may have had someone else kill Mitchell for him. So police follow this trail, which leads them to Deandre Fleming's parents' house where he is still living. And when they get there, right off the bat, they notice something suspicious. Because what do you think is literally sitting in Deandre's parents driveway when police pull up?

• 28:02Garrett Moreland?

  The Buick, the car.

• 28:04Payton Moreland?

  A dark colored Buick.

• 28:06Garrett Moreland?

  I mean, game over at that point.

• 28:09Payton Moreland?

  Just like the one that was seen coming and going pretty often from Mitchell's house. So police feel like they're steps away from solving this case. They feel like they're on the right track. They knock on the Fleming's door and they speak with Deandre, who is seemingly very cooperative. But when they ask, okay, do you know Eric Hopkins? He's like, hmm, no, the name doesn't ring a bell.

• 28:35Garrett Moreland?

  Which is hilarious considering all the calls that just came through.

• 28:38Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, he's like, okay, you're being a little sketchy since we obviously know that like you had called his phone a bunch. So they pull out a picture of Eric and they show him, they're like, well, this is Eric. Are you sure you don't know him? And right away, Deandre's like, oh, yeah, that guy. I play video games with him. He says they never met in person, but that Eric has used Deandre's phone as a hotspot to play video games before.

• 29:09Garrett Moreland?

  I'm a little confused because how is that not possible if they haven't played in person? Like for a hotspot, you have to be somewhat near that person to use it.

• 29:18Payton Moreland?

  Yes, well, let me explain it to you.

• 29:21Garrett Moreland?

  So that doesn't make sense.

• 29:22Payton Moreland?

  So the explanation of why the phone calls are there if he's only used it as a hotspot actually does make sense to police because when your phone links to someone's hotspot, it actually appears like a phone call on your records.

• 29:40Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 29:40Payton Moreland?

  That's kind of how it shows this activity. Now, again, like Garrett just said, I had the same exact question. What I personally found strange about this was how Eric linked to Deandre's hotspot if they never met because as far as I'm aware, you need to be in close proximity to link to someone's hotspot. So maybe the two were neighbors, but just didn't know each other well. Either way, his story did seem to check out to the police, especially because when they look at Deandre's cell and type in Eric's number, no past correspondence on text or the phone log come up. It really is just the hotspot.

• 30:20Garrett Moreland?

  I'm really confused about this hotspot thing, but I'm going to ignore it for now.

• 30:24Payton Moreland?

  Well, it's annoying because none of the sources or even police explain why.

• 30:31Garrett Moreland?

  That doesn't make any sense at all.

• 30:33Payton Moreland?

  They're like, yep, it was just him connecting to the hotspot, but they've never met in person. Like there's not, there's no explanation about it.

• 30:40Garrett Moreland?

  Literally like impossible.

• 30:42Payton Moreland?

  All we have is that police apparently went forward with this explanation.

• 30:47Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 30:49Payton Moreland?

  Either way, I mean, all I can do is just take what I'm learning from sources. But either way, they decide to take a look inside the Buick. They're like, hey, can we look inside the Buick? And this is when they realized there's no blood or DNA evidence in the Buick that they can see. It seems like it's just a coincidence that this random guy was hooking up to this guy's hotspot and it's completely random that his parents drive a Buick.

• 31:16Garrett Moreland?

  Get out of here. That's insane.

• 31:18Payton Moreland?

  And police are like, okay, well, I don't think we have any choice but to clear him. Like every, all the evidence makes sense in his connection to Deandre. And so he's cleared because police get word that the blood found inside Mitchell's home that night is actually not a match for Eric Hopkins. So like, okay, we only got to Deandre through Eric and now we're learning that the blood that we believe is from the attacker is not even Eric Hopkins' blood. In fact, when they run that DNA profile from the crime scene through CODIS, there's no match in there either. Meaning investigators are basically back at square one when it comes to evidence.

• 32:02Payton Moreland?

  This was until they get the records back on Mitchell's missing cellphone. So they are getting his records through his like logs and cellphone activity. And here's where technology falls short. While your phone records show who you call and text with, it obviously doesn't show who you've been messaging over social media apps. You would only be able to find that through going through someone's phone.

• 32:26Garrett Moreland?

  Correct.

• 32:26Payton Moreland?

  And getting into their app. So if you send someone a DM to come over to your house, that's not going to come up through a subpoena to say Verizon. You'd have to subpoena the social media platforms themselves to give you access to that specific user's data.

• 32:42Garrett Moreland?

  Actually physically have the person's phone, which I just don't think happens very often.

• 32:46Payton Moreland?

  Well, I mean, the phone's missing. They literally until they find the attacker.

• 32:50Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, okay.

• 32:51Payton Moreland?

  And then even then, you gotta know passwords, or you still have to get a subpoena to get the password.

• 32:55Garrett Moreland?

  I wasn't thinking about that.

• 32:56Payton Moreland?

  So it's obviously a tedious process. Now, the police were hoping Mitchell would have texted or called the person who he invited over that night. But they don't find any evidence of that on his logs. The last person he spoke to was his neighbor. So they believe that this conversation probably happened through a social media platform, which they don't have access to at this time. However, they do notice something else interesting when they get his records back. Remember Mitchell's phone wasn't at the crime scene? When police got there, he had used a backup cellphone to call 911? His primary cellphone actually moved to the area of downtown Atlanta after his murder.

• 33:38Payton Moreland?

  So police are like, well, let's just go to his cellphone's last known location because we believe the attacker had it. And it is an empty lot in downtown. They're like, maybe the suspect just ditched it there. But they have no luck finding the cellphone in this empty lot. So this case hits another roadblock. That was until March of 2019. One of the detectives on the case had just come back from an FBI training seminar, where he learned about a new technique they were teaching known as geofencing. I think we've talked about geofencing before on the Egypt Covington case. But in case you missed it, here is how it works.

• 34:21Payton Moreland?

  Google has this technology called Sensor Vault. So whether you like it or not, if you have a device that is using Google, it is tracking the device's location at all times, whether you have your location history or permissions on or not. So Google has the ability to track you whether you're like yes or no. Google then stores all of this information in their Sensor Vault database. And ever since 2016, law enforcement has been hitting up Google to get this information when they think it might solve a crime. There's even new special warrants for this kind of thing called geofencing warrant.

• 35:01Payton Moreland?

  So what's kind of cool about this geofencing thing is that when a police department goes to Google with a geofencing warrant, they are basically saying, hey, we need a list of all the cell phones that were in this specific chosen area, which is really cool because if you have like a crime scene in a specific area of town, you can be like, hey, we need to know every single cellphone that was in this area from this time to this time and get a warrant for it. So Google basically hands over a map of a chosen area and that map shows what cell phones were inside a perimeter at a certain time. So in Mitchell's case, that map would be the area around his apartment during the date and time of his murder.

• 35:43Payton Moreland?

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• 36:24Payton Moreland?

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• 37:09Payton Moreland?

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• 37:54Payton Moreland?

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• 38:36Payton Moreland?

  Now, this technique is becoming more and more common in solving cases, which is why you're hearing more and more often that murderers are leaving their phones at home, like serial killers, or turning their phones off because they don't want their phone with them, even if their location services are turned off. There's one stat I actually found from 2019 where Google said they received about 180 requests for geo fencing data a week. Now, I imagine it's grown exponentially since 2019.

• 39:07Garrett Moreland?

  Holy crap. That's a ton.

• 39:09Payton Moreland?

  And by the way, it's not just Google. If you have your location settings on, any service provider can say where your cell phone was at at any given date in time.

• 39:18Garrett Moreland?

  I'm down. It doesn't bother me.

• 39:20Payton Moreland?

  Police don't have to rely solely on pings from cellphone towers now, which have already been messy when it comes to true crime.

• 39:28Garrett Moreland?

  And it's, it's like paying, and it's so complicated to deal with pings.

• 39:32Payton Moreland?

  It's so complicated. They can really narrow it down to a small radius to see exactly where your cellphone was. And if you're carrying it, where you were and when you were there. Now, in terms of this investigation, police pared that geofence down to the 500 feet surrounding Mitchell's home in a 45 minute window around the time of his 911 call. And they rule it down to four devices based on who came and went during that time, because if someone's like, sitting in their house, their phone's going to be there the whole time versus coming murdering someone and leaving. Now, two of those devices actually belonged to an elderly couple that lived down the road. So they kind of crossed them out.

• 40:14Payton Moreland?

  One was someone who was visiting a friend on the block, so they crossed them out. And then there was one that really stood out to investigators. Someone who left the geofence moments before Mitchell placed his 911 call. Someone who hadn't even been on the police's radar before.

• 40:35Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, man.

• 40:36Payton Moreland?

  A 22 year old man named Dante Holmes. Dante had a history of aggravated assault and theft, but he wasn't in the CODIS database, which explained why police might not have gotten a hit on him through his DNA. So they get a subpoena for Dante's phone because they're like, hey, this was in our, it covered our warrant, so now we can get a subpoena for his phone. And they find an image he had uploaded to iCloud right after the time of the murder. It's a picture of a bloody wound on his leg.

• 41:15Payton Moreland?

  But that's not all. They find out that Dante's mother had a brand new Buick, the time of Mitchell's death, and then sold it quickly after the incident.

• 41:30Garrett Moreland?

  That's insane. That's insane.

• 41:32Payton Moreland?

  Also, pretty damning. Remember how Mitchell's phone traveled to the downtown Atlanta area right after his death? Well, guess whose phone was right there, traveling alongside Mitchell's phone at the same time? Dante's. So this is more than enough to get an arrest warrant for Dante Holmes. And on April 12th, 2019, almost six months after Mitchell's death, Dante is taken into custody. And one of the first things they do is take some of Dante's DNA to run it against the blood sample they have. And then they start interrogating him, which he does agree to without an attorney present. Now, at first Dante profusely denies having anything to do with Mitchell's

• 42:16Payton Moreland?

  murder. In fact, he denies knowing Mitchell at all. And then little by little, throughout the interrogation, he begins to change his story. He says, okay, yeah, I do know Mitchell, but we just hooked up once or twice. I didn't even actually know his name. And the last time he saw him was actually back in September, two months before the murder. Obviously, police know this isn't true. The Buick was spotted on Mitchell's neighbor's security camera several times in the weeks leading up to the murder. So even if it was like September and then he just came back to the murder, that's still a lie.

• 42:55Garrett Moreland?

  I think it's so funny because the geofencing also has him literally in the area. So it's just like, come on, man, give it up.

• 43:04Payton Moreland?

  This is why it's like, police don't release all their cards or all their evidence even to the media.

• 43:09Garrett Moreland?

  Hundred percent.

• 43:10Payton Moreland?

  Because you can catch people in lies like this.

• 43:13Garrett Moreland?

  And once you catch them in a lie, then they have to backtrack and they lie again. Like, it's just over at that point.

• 43:17Payton Moreland?

  Right. But even though he's caught in these lies, he's not really budging. So the interrogators change their tactic. They start playing the, how's your family gonna feel about all of this card? And the, listen, you will feel better if you'll just confess because we have all this evidence. We know you're lying. And then Dante finally gives in. He says, okay. He went over there that night because he was going to call it quits with Mitchell. He claims Mitchell called him over to talk about things, invited him up to his room. And he claims it was actually Mitchell who started this. Dante says, I turned around for a second when I was in his bedroom. And then when I turned back around, Mitchell was standing there with a knife in his hand.

• 43:59Garrett Moreland?

  What a loser because no one can, like, there's no witnesses to be like, oh, he's lying.

• 44:05Payton Moreland?

  Right.

• 44:05Garrett Moreland?

  It was just like, come on, man.

• 44:07Payton Moreland?

  So Dante claimed that's when Mitchell tried to stab him and Dante then acted out of self-defense. They get into an intense struggle, fighting over the knife. And Dante said that was when Mitchell cut his leg. Eventually, he got the knife out of Mitchell's hands and stabbed him in the back. And then just kept going, all in an effort to protect himself. He then took the knife and Mitchell's phone with him in a panic and fled the scene before getting rid of both items later on. Instead of calling 911 and saying, oh, my gosh, this guy just tried to stab me and I stabbed him back in self-defense, like, please, can you come here? Dante said it was never his intention when he arrived at Mitchell's home that night for things to go down the way they did.

• 44:53Payton Moreland?

  But police aren't really buying it. They think if Dante really did show remorse for what he did, he wouldn't have stolen the victim's cellphone, making it harder for him to call for help, which is most likely why he even took the phone. He likely would have called 911 on his own to say what had happened.

• 45:12Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 45:12Payton Moreland?

  At least now they have a confession, though, whether he's saying it was self-defense or not. And soon they do get confirmation that his blood also matches the blood on the door frame found at Mitchell's house, which is more than enough to get him indicted on charges of malice murder. This is a criminal offense in Georgia when a murder is committed with express or implied malice. They also get him on aggravated assault and aggravated battery, as well as two counts of felony murder. It's safe to say the prosecution feels pretty confident about their case against Dante. However, they aren't sure how this geofencing technology is going to translate to a jury. Are they going to understand it? Are they going to trust it?

• 45:56Payton Moreland?

  And will they think it's also a violation of personal privacy? Luckily, that's not the only evidence they're working with. They do have Dante's confession and his DNA at the crime scene. So they decide to pursue the death penalty. And that's when Dante's attorneys think, okay, maybe we should start talking about a plea deal. Three weeks before Dante's trial is set to begin in January of 2020, his lawyers say he's changing his plea to guilty to avoid the death penalty.

• 46:26Garrett Moreland?

  Which, at that point, you're just admitting everything, right?

• 46:29Payton Moreland?

  Right, he is sentenced to life in prison. With that, the state of Georgia solves one of, if not its first case ever, using geofencing technology. And Mitchell Jones gets the justice he deserves.

• 46:46Garrett Moreland?

  Why? Like, why, like, why, sorry?

• 46:48Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, like, why?

• 46:49Garrett Moreland?

  What was the reason?

• 46:50Payton Moreland?

  What was even the motive? He never actually gives one. He says, he does the typical, I'm pleading guilty because I don't want the death penalty. Not because I actually did this.

• 47:01Garrett Moreland?

  Like, did they get in a fight? Like, what was?

• 47:03Payton Moreland?

  And the prosecution's theory was just that, like, a lover's quarrel. Maybe didn't want to be broken up with, whatever it had happened. But, I mean, the truth is, we'll never know. But I do think it's important to know, as far as true crime goes, geofencing has actually sparked a lot of controversy in the years since Mitchell's case.

• 47:23Garrett Moreland?

  I get it.

• 47:24Payton Moreland?

  While law enforcement sees it as an incredibly useful tool, others are afraid it's a slippery slope when it comes to an invasion of privacy. Especially because, like any crime-solving method, it is not completely fail-safe.

• 47:41Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 47:41Payton Moreland?

  Take the case of George Molina in Phoenix, Arizona, for example. Back in 2018, 23-year-old George, a warehouse worker, was arrested after a geofence-

• 47:52Payton Moreland?

  Placed him at the scene of a murder. He spent the next week in jail arguing for his innocence before he was released. It was then determined that George's stepfather was to blame for the murder. He had George's phone in his car while it was happening. I mean, yeah, who's to say who's carrying whose phone? It's just a phone, not necessarily that the person is there.

• 48:15Garrett Moreland?

  Now we learn from like, did you actually have your phone? Can we prove that person actually had that phone?

• 48:20Payton Moreland?

  So it's not as like concrete as maybe people once believed. And even though George was released from prison after a week, the mistake was never fully corrected. The arrest has stayed on his record. An arrest for murder, mind you, which will make it very difficult to find work and support.

• 48:41Garrett Moreland?

  That's wild.

• 48:42Payton Moreland?

  In the future, because you have an arrest for potential first degree murder on your record. All because his cellphone was in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person in his father's car, which is like completely normal. And then there's obviously the argument of privacy. Garrett and I were talking about, should it be a right or a privilege? Of course, there's the idea of I have nothing to hide. I'll show you the contents of my phone. But some people see this as a complete invasion of their personal space regardless. That even if they have nothing to hide, the government and law enforcement agencies should not have complete access to their lives and know where they are at 24/7. Because as we know from doing this show and even in George's case,

• 49:23Payton Moreland?

  sometimes even those with nothing to hide are blamed for things they didn't do.

• 49:28Garrett Moreland?

  True.

• 49:29Payton Moreland?

  At least in Mitchell's case, geo fencing did lead to a success story. Mitchell's father even praised it when he spoke to the press. And if it weren't for those new tools, Dante Holmes might be out there walking free today. Cause they never would have linked him to Mitchell. And that is the murder of Mitchell Jones, Jr.

• 49:53Garrett Moreland?

  Horrible. I just did. I mean, I guess we'll never know the actual motive, but I we do so many cases and we've done so many cases and to kill someone will never stop blowing my mind. I'll never be able to understand it because it's not okay. We don't kill people. We just, yeah, we don't do it. We got to control our emotions. There's so many other ways to handle things and it's crazy to me that people just kill people.

• 50:20Payton Moreland?

  Honestly, I've been down the like, police body cam footage rabbit hole lately, you know, just out of, I don't know, just when I have free time. And I've been watching police responding to murders and having their body cam on. And it's just like lovers fighting murders. I honestly had to turn it off.

• 50:45Garrett Moreland?

  Any type of DV is just.

• 50:47Payton Moreland?

  Because it just feels like, what? Hello? Like, control your emotions. But all right, you guys, that was our episode today and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.

• 51:00Garrett Moreland?

  And I hate it.

• 51:01Payton Moreland?

  Goodbye.

• 51:09Speaker 01

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