Pod Insights Murder With My Husband 274. The Red Flag Romance - Kelly Dwyer About this episode In this episode, Payton and Garrett examine the mysterious disappearance of Kelly Dwyer. When Kelly fails to show up for work, her friends and family begin retracing her final known movements leading to the man she was last seen with. What unfolds is a chilling story of secrets, red flags, and a shocking twist that would take years to uncover.
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Case Sources:
TMJ4.com - https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/kris-zocco-sentenced-to-31-years-in-prison-for-murder-of-kelly-dwyer
WI-Homicide.com - https://wi-homicide.com/content/kris-zocco-charged-milwaukee-woman-kelly-dwyers-murder
Chillingcrimes.com - https://www.chillingcrimes.com/blogs/news/kelly-dwyer
Milwaukeemag.com - https://www.milwaukeemag.com/death-of-a-daughter-inside-murder-kelly-dwyer/
Medium.com - https://lizjin.medium.com/the-grisly-murder-of-kelly-dwyer-ed0090257c2c
CBS58.com - https://cbs58.com/news/kris-zocco-man-convicted-of-killing-kelly-dwyer-in-2013-to-be-sentenced
Fox6Now.com - https://www.fox6now.com/news/he-must-suffer-as-were-suffering-kris-zocco-gets-31-years-in-death-of-kelly-dwyer
WISN.com - https://www.wisn.com/article/attorney-some-evidence-in-kinky-sex-murder-never-existed-has-disappeared/22255502
CBSNews.com - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kelly-dwyer-death-solving-the-mystery-behind-wisconsin-womans-disappearance/
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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0:29 Speaker 01 Great meeting. Who took notes? Anyone?
0:33 Speaker 02 With Monday Note Taker, the meeting ends and the plan already exists. Action items, owners, deadlines. Go to monday.com, the AI workspace platform.
0:44 Payton Moreland? You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Kaitin Morland.
0:53 Garrett Moreland? And I'm Garrett Moreland.
0:54 Payton Moreland? And he's the husband.
0:55 Garrett Moreland? And I'm the husband.
0:56 Payton Moreland? You know, you just like, it's, it's just, okay. Should we just give up?
1:03 Garrett Moreland? Sorry, no episode today. We're not recording. Everyone have a great day.
1:07 Payton Moreland? Sometimes it's just something that I don't think about. It just comes out. I just let it naturally come out. So you have those moments where you're like, it's like when you say a word a little too much and then you're like, does that sound right? Is that how you actually say it?
1:20 Garrett Moreland? Yeah, I get that.
1:22 Payton Moreland? Because it's not something I really think about. It just happens.
1:26 Garrett Moreland? Yeah. Hope everyone is having a great Monday. It's really hot outside right now where we are. Those who live in Arizona and other places are probably like, oh, poor you. Well, I didn't move to Arizona for that reason because I don't want it to be that hot. But it's currently 103 degrees outside. Hot day, but I think it's just a heat wave. It's supposed to cool down tomorrow. Even Daisy goes outside and she's like, where in the world are we right now? How do you feel about the heat, babe?
1:55 Payton Moreland? Not a fan. I would like some rain.
1:59 Garrett Moreland? Here's the problem. I, I grew up in California, so I am unfortunately very spoiled when it comes to weather. Year round, it was usually pretty good, but honestly, I don't mind the weather in Utah. I like the seasons. I like a little bit cold sometimes. I like the heat in the summer.
2:15 Payton Moreland? People used to complain about Arizona and they'd be like, oh, it's just unbearable in the summer. And I was like,
2:23 Payton Moreland? Can't be that bad.
2:24 Garrett Moreland? It's hot. I don't know how you guys do it.
2:26 Payton Moreland? I will say I went and I will never go back in the summertime because it feels genuinely like the gates of hell.
2:37 Garrett Moreland? It's so hot. I don't know.
2:39 Payton Moreland? It is. It feels like, you know, when you're standing next to a fire and you can like feel the heat on your face.
2:46 Garrett Moreland? Feel the heat.
2:46 Payton Moreland? It feels like that.
2:47 Garrett Moreland? I know.
2:48 Payton Moreland? Like you're just outside, like you step out, you walk from your car, 10 steps into a restaurant.
2:53 Garrett Moreland? You're like, oh.
2:54 Payton Moreland? And it is like unbearable.
2:57 Garrett Moreland? Yeah, it's kind of impressive that you guys do it, but I mean, I guess it's just like, yeah, I don't know.
3:01 Payton Moreland? People will think that about the cold.
3:02 Garrett Moreland? I don't know how the air conditioner survive in the summer.
3:07 Payton Moreland? I like feel bad for the cars and the roofs. I'm like, that's so sad. Like they're just so hot.
3:14 Garrett Moreland? Daisy.
3:16 Payton Moreland? What do you want?
3:17 Garrett Moreland? One second. Hold on. Daisy's barking at us because she needs to go outside. This has been long, so I will, that can kind of be my 10 seconds and we will skip to something important because my 10 seconds is a merch drop item. Um, it is a hat. It is amazing. It's a strangey, danger hat. Every single one of you need it. It's honestly, it's, tell me the design isn't amazing.
3:42 Payton Moreland? Well, I think I need to preface here that
3:46 Payton Moreland? when Garrett does something, this, this little hat has been his little thing. And when he does something, he goes all out. So he tested 800 different hats. Before he found the one that he wanted to print on.
3:59 Garrett Moreland? I just, I wanted a good blank. I don't like bad blanks. I will say that this isn't a blank you can go and like jump in the water with. It's not like one of those melon waterproof hats, but the blank is amazing. It's cool enough to wear in the heat. Just saying.
4:13 Payton Moreland? And it is a cute hat.
4:14 Garrett Moreland? It's extreme. It's, it's super cool.
4:17 Payton Moreland? You might be thinking like, oh, a merch hat. It's not really like a merch hat.
4:20 Garrett Moreland? They're like, it's a custom blank. They're not like just merch hats that you get. It's a custom blank. It's a high quality hat. Go check it out. Um, I'll have some pictures of me wearing it. There's some other pictures on there. It's live now. Um, we don't have a ton of them, so I don't know if they're going to sell out. Maybe no one buys it. If no one buys it, then I'll buy all of them. So then it looks like everyone bought them. And that's what I got. So go check it out. The links are going to be everywhere to our normal merch site. We love you guys and let's hop into today's episode.
4:51 Payton Moreland? All right. Our sources for this episode are TMJ4.com, wi-homicide.com, chillingcrimes.com, milwaukeemag.com, medium.com, CBS58.com, fox6now.com, WISN.com and CBSnews.com. So oftentimes when we find ourselves in a new relationship with someone, we only look for the good in that person. Reasons why we should keep moving forward with them. Why they might be the one we spend forever with. That's part of romance, a part of lust or love. Visualizing the perfect future together. But sometimes in a brand new relationship,
5:33 Payton Moreland? that means ignoring the red flags too. We tend to bury the parts that maybe should be warnings that should tell us to turn, run and get out of this before we find ourselves in too deep. Maybe they're not over their ex. Maybe they have anger issues or violent tendencies. Okay.
5:53 Garrett Moreland? Sorry. You said into deep and I was saying, cause I'm in.
5:58 Payton Moreland? Okay.
5:59 Garrett Moreland? Anyways.
5:59 Payton Moreland? I just saw your head banging over there.
6:01 Garrett Moreland? Yeah, I know. That was. Yeah. Anyways, keep going.
6:05 Payton Moreland? Maybe there's some dark secret on their computer you stumble upon one afternoon. But when we're in the state of love or lust, whatever you want to call it, it's easy to ignore the circumstantial evidence and just follow your feelings instead. Which is why today's story is not just a cautionary tale. It's proof that when we ignore red flags, they could lead to something far more deadly than heartbreak. So for today's case, we are headed to Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And Milwaukee is where 27 year old Kelly Dwyer calls home in the year 2013. But Kelly isn't a Wisconsin native. She actually grew up
6:49 Payton Moreland? in a suburb of Chicago. And while her high school years were difficult in Chicago, as her parents worked through a challenging divorce, Kelly managed to keep her head above water focusing on tennis, the high school newspaper and yearbook clubs.
7:06 Payton Moreland? But in the trauma of her parents divorce, Kelly kinda seemed to lose a sense of herself too. Instead of going right to college after graduation, Kelly did her own thing for the next few years, working odd jobs, just kind of finding her place in the world. But four years later, she was ready to get the heck out of Illinois and start fresh somewhere new. She wanted to create a new identity for herself and finally put her past behind her. And this is why she decided to move to Milwaukee. The city suited Kelly. She made new friends. She found a community of yogis and began teaching yoga classes herself. She also got a job at Lululemon while nannying part-time.
7:50 Payton Moreland? So Kelly moved here and was definitely hustling, but she also loved letting loose. Kelly loved the nightlife scene in Milwaukee and was always spotted out with her friends and coworkers at all the trendy new spots. But Kelly also wanted a lot more for herself. She wanted a bright future. She wanted love. She wanted happiness. And when she finally celebrated her 27th birthday in September of 2013, she believed that this future she envisioned for herself was right around the corner. She told her friend Ryan on this birthday, quote, "Something big is gonna happen. I can feel it. It feels really important to me."
8:32 Garrett Moreland? Okay.
8:33 Payton Moreland? And Ryan, her friend, was excited for her because Kelly was really coming into herself. This was something her father, Tony, had noticed too when he visited her in Milwaukee shortly after. Tony, her dad, was relieved to see how happy Kelly was and how much she was thriving in this new environment. And Kelly seemed to attribute a lot of that happiness to a guy she had been seeing for about a year now, someone she met through a mutual friend. His name was Chris Zacco. Now, Chris was 11 years older than Kelly. So at 38, he had already...
9:16 Payton Moreland? Built quite a life for himself. He was a successful IT executive who had graduated from Boston University with a degree in international business. He was now making pretty decent money by thirty eight. The kind of guy who got up early to golf on the weekends, even if he was out late partying the night before. He also traveled a lot for work, which meant he and Kelly didn't get to see each other as much as she may have liked. But to her, him leaving out of town a lot was worth it because it paid for his beautiful condo in a nice Milwaukee neighborhood. And fancy sports cars that he could pick Kelly up in for dates.
9:58 Garrett Moreland? Okay, random question, not for you babe, but for our listeners.
10:02 Payton Moreland? Okay.
10:03 Garrett Moreland? You had all the money in the world.
10:06 Garrett Moreland? Would you choose city? Or would you, or would you choose?
10:12 Payton Moreland? Suburbs.
10:12 Garrett Moreland? Uh, I guess suburbs, but not suburbs, like country, like.
10:17 Payton Moreland? Okay, so extremes on both sides?
10:19 Garrett Moreland? Yes, extremes on both sides. What would that be like rural, but not really rural, like you can still find like farm towns where it's still close to everything. You know what I'm saying?
10:31 Payton Moreland? Yeah, what would you choose? All the money.
10:34 Garrett Moreland? That's not for me, that's just for our listeners, just a.
10:36 Payton Moreland? You don't think they want to know what you feel?
10:38 Garrett Moreland? I can tell them next week, this is for them.
10:39 Payton Moreland? Oh, okay.
10:40 Garrett Moreland? Okay.
10:41 Payton Moreland? You're, you always be making promises, bro.
10:44 Garrett Moreland? I mean, I don't know what I would choose. That's why I don't know the answer to that.
10:47 Payton Moreland? I don't know either.
10:48 Garrett Moreland? I know I kind of interrupted the case. I think there's, if you had all the money in the world, there's amazing things you could get on both ends of the spectrum.
10:56 Payton Moreland? Yeah, but think if you had all the money in a city.
10:59 Garrett Moreland? That I mean.
10:59 Payton Moreland? Shows every night, five star restaurants.
11:01 Garrett Moreland? If you had all the money and like you had a huge ranch somewhere, like you could have.
11:05 Payton Moreland? True too.
11:06 Garrett Moreland? You could have.
11:07 Payton Moreland? You could have cows.
11:08 Garrett Moreland? Well, yes, but a lot more than that.
11:11 Payton Moreland? You could have a boat.
11:12 Garrett Moreland? You have any horse you want.
11:14 Payton Moreland? But honestly, if you have all the money in the world, you could have both.
11:18 Garrett Moreland? Yeah, but you gotta pick one.
11:19 Payton Moreland? Okay.
11:20 Garrett Moreland? Anyway, sorry interruption. Let's continue.
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11:49 Payton Moreland? All right, guys, we're jumping into an ad, and if you are like me, protecting the people inside your home is a top priority. I have Daisy at home, I'm about to have a baby at home, and Garrett and me. And there are a lot of times where I've thought about our safety, but that is where SimpliSafe comes in and has had my back, honestly, for years. Unlike traditional security systems that only alert you after a break-in is already underway, SimpliSafe is built to stop it before it starts, which is exactly what I'm looking for. I don't even want someone in my home. I want it stopped before the alarm has even gone off.
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13:09 Payton Moreland? Tells them we sent you, really helps the show. SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time. Okay, so he has money and their relationship like it kind of worked because Kelly and Chris had a few things in common despite their 11 year age gap. Both came from divorced households and could understand each other's pain there. But they also both liked to indulge in recreational drugs. They also both loved to party. That detail wasn't something Kelly shared with her dad when he came to visit though, for obvious reasons. Instead, she just glowed about her new relationship, thinking it would only be a matter of time
13:49 Payton Moreland? before she actually got to introduce Chris to her father in person. But what neither Tony, her dad, nor Kelly knew when he came to visit.
14:01 Garrett Moreland? Oh, no.
14:01 Payton Moreland? Was that day would never come.
14:04 Garrett Moreland? Oh.
14:05 Payton Moreland? Just a few weeks later, on October 10th, 2013, Kelly and Chris had a little date night planned. Kelly went over to Chris's apartment and hung out there for a bit before the two went out for some drinks at one of their favorite spots in town. It was a place right across the street from Chris's apartment called Aleum. Now there, Kelly ran into her friend Chanel. They had a good conversation. They're just out hanging out for the night in the year 2013. Chanel says that Kelly seemed to be in a good mood that night. Kelly told her she has the day off tomorrow. She was looking forward to just getting up, going to yoga, doing a little laundry, just kind of having an easy day the next day.
14:47 Payton Moreland? Then, after a few drinks, Kelly and Chris closed their tab and went to this pizza spot that was a few blocks away called Ian's.
14:56 Garrett Moreland? I love pizza.
14:57 Payton Moreland? Now at Ian's, they grabbed some slices and then actually went back to Chris's apartment around 2:37 a.m.
15:06 Payton Moreland? On what is now the morning of October 11th. But the day after that, October 12th, Kelly was supposed to work a shift at Lululemon. So remember, they are out partying on October 10th. The entire day of October 11th goes by. And then the morning of October 12th, Kelly no shows to her job. So her coworkers, who are also her good friends, start calling her. They're like, hey, you, you have a shift. Are you coming in? But there's no answer. So they figure it's 2013. Let's check her social media. Kelly was the kind of person who posts and updates her followers pretty consistently.
15:51 Payton Moreland? So when they notice that she also hasn't posted on social media since two days prior, the night she went out with Chris, things start to get more alarming. And so that's when her friends actually get the police involved because they're like, she hasn't posted. She's not answering her phone. She would never not show up to work. We're going to call the police. Now, knowing that they have a missing person's case on their hands, investigators hear about this and start with the basics. They start investigating and realize that Kelly's debit cards also haven't been used since. And later that day on October 12th, it seems like her phone is either now dead or turned off because it's going straight to voicemail.
16:35 Payton Moreland? And between the time that her friends realize she hasn't posted and then alert authorities and then authorities go on to check her social media, her social media account seemingly gets deleted as well. So she's missing. She hasn't been heard from, but in between this time, her social media gets deleted.
16:57 Garrett Moreland? Huge red flag.
16:58 Payton Moreland? Yes.
16:58 Garrett Moreland? Huge red flag. That's crazy.
17:00 Payton Moreland? But they also find Kelly has profiles for a few different dating apps. And she has been talking to a few different people on them. Though nothing stands out as much as this one tip that they receive from her friend who saw her two nights ago. At Aleum, if you remember, the friend who said that she was in good spirits. She didn't have work the next day. So this friend talks to police and they say the last person she was with that they know of was Chris, her boyfriend. So on Monday, the 14th detectives go knocking on Chris's door because they now have realized Kelly has no family here. She only has friends and then Chris, who's basically the closest person to her.
17:45 Payton Moreland? Now, remember, this is the same place Kelly was presumably last seen in the early morning hours of Friday, October 11th, three days earlier, when they returned to his apartment. And when detectives show up there to say, hey, your girlfriend's missing. Chris is pretty welcoming. He lets them into his apartment. He sits down with them and has no problem telling them what he and Kelly got into the night he last saw her. He admits, yes, I know Kelly, but he doesn't say that she's his girlfriend. He says Kelly is just someone he parties with, someone he hangs out with. Claims that earlier that night, the night she went missing before going out to the bar,
18:27 Payton Moreland? the two of them had actually drove around trying to get cocaine. And then after the bar, they came back to his apartment, did some lines, had a couple more drinks. They had sex on his couch and then both passed out there. He says the next morning Kelly left at around 9:00 AM and he hadn't seen or heard from her since. Now, Chris is leaning pretty hard into this narrative that Kelly is a wild party girl who did a lot of drugs. This is who he's portraying to the cops. Yep. And he also is insisting that they weren't exclusive. She was sleeping with other people she met online. But as police are having this conversation with Chris,
19:11 Payton Moreland? one of the detectives gets a text message. It's from one of her colleagues who is downstairs, sitting with security, going over the footage from the apartment building that the night Kelly went missing. Yeah. And he says, hey, I see Kelly on security going into the apartment around 2:30 a.m. Just like Chris has described.
19:33 Garrett Moreland? And she never comes out, huh?
19:35 Payton Moreland? He says, yes, they seem to be chatting totally fine, but as we're like combing through this security footage.
19:41 Garrett Moreland? Yep.
19:42 Payton Moreland? I cannot find Kelly ever leaving the apartment building. So the police are like, okay, we're sitting here in front of him, getting texts from our colleagues that her leaving at 9 a.m. Like Chris has said, isn't actually caught on camera. They need to keep looking into this guy. Right now, this is obviously not enough to arrest him on, but they do have something they can now use to get a search warrant. That video and the fact that Chris said he had cocaine in the apartment basically means detectives leave to go get all of this sorted out. And in the meantime, they keep digging into Chris.
20:16 Garrett Moreland? It's kind of hard because as a detective, you leave. He already knows he's under suspicion and probably is trying to figure things out. You confront him and you say, hey, we just checked the cameras and she didn't leave. Like what? I don't know which option's better.
20:35 Payton Moreland? You're playing with fire because it's like you confront him.
20:37 Garrett Moreland? You're kind of playing with fire.
20:38 Payton Moreland? Hope he cracks and confesses because you've just confronted him with big news or he lawyers up and then you don't ever get to interview him without a bunch of pressure. But also if.
20:50 Garrett Moreland? He already knows he's on the radar.
20:51 Payton Moreland? Yeah.
20:52 Garrett Moreland? So it's almost like you might as well just go for it.
20:54 Payton Moreland? But here's the thing, they bring him in. This is not enough to arrest him on.
20:57 Garrett Moreland? No.
20:58 Payton Moreland? So then you have to let him go if he doesn't confess.
21:01 Garrett Moreland? Yeah, I don't know what you do. I mean, I think either way, he knows he's under suspicion. So I feel like you just try to get him to, I mean, I don't think there's a right way or wrong way. It's just interesting because I was thinking about it. I mean, they have to leave. They don't have a search warrant.
21:15 Payton Moreland? They have to go get all that sorted.
21:16 Garrett Moreland? Now he just has time to do whatever he wants.
21:18 Payton Moreland? Right, because police have come in. So now he's going to double check that everything's good if, you know, if there's evidence.
21:24 Garrett Moreland? Country, whatever.
21:26 Payton Moreland? I mean, they are actively working this investigation. They are digging into Chris, trying to get this warrant. And they discovered that Chris had removed the SIM card from his cell phone, making it impossible to track its movements from October 11th at 7:43 p.m. until 2:41 p.m. on October 12th.
21:46 Garrett Moreland? Bro.
21:47 Payton Moreland? So
21:48 Garrett Moreland? Come on, man.
21:49 Payton Moreland? His SIM card is out of his phone, so they have no idea, they have no way to track what his phone did during that time. Well, police are back at Chris's house just later that day. They leave, get the warrant and come back. And they find a lot more than a little cocaine in this apartment. They find canisters of marijuana in the fridge. They find painkillers, unidentified pills. So Chris is actually arrested on the spot for drug possession, which is good for them because they can now hold him. But while they have him under arrest, they also get a warrant to search his cellphone. And what they find on this phone is pretty disturbing. It's a video of Kelly and Chris taking about three weeks before she went missing.
22:34 Payton Moreland? And in this video, they are engaged in a sex act. But Kelly looks to be in a lot of distress in this video. Whatever is happening, she is struggling to breathe, like with what's going on. And this isn't the end of it. They also find pictures on this phone of Kelly. And she appears to be unconscious on Chris's bed and he's taking pictures of her.
23:05 Garrett Moreland? Okay.
23:05 Payton Moreland? So he's taking pictures of her unconscious body.
23:08 Garrett Moreland? Got it.
23:09 Payton Moreland? On the bed.
23:10 Garrett Moreland? Not legal, by the way.
23:11 Payton Moreland? So none of this looks good for Chris, especially because police don't stop searching his apartment. Once they find drugs, they're also looking for any signs of Kelly and they notice one very suspicious detail. The shower curtain in Chris's guest bathroom has been torn down, like the hooks still have pieces of fabric on it, but someone has just ripped it right off. They also bring in a police cadaver dog named Molly and she picks up a scent in a lot of places, the hallway outside of Chris's door, the parking garage on the same level where Chris parks his car, a dumpster on the 18th floor where Chris lives, the trash chute on his floor.
23:57 Payton Moreland? This is all just outside of his apartment. Inside, she hits on the hallway, the guest bedroom and the guest bathroom, and she finishes her search on top of Chris's bed. In fact, that's where she seems to be triggering the most. Like she goes crazy on this bed. So, police are pretty confident that Kelly most likely died in the apartment on Chris's bed, which is why the dog is alerting. And then he eventually tried to get rid of her body. Yet despite all of this, police still don't feel like this is enough to press charges on Chris for murder. I mean, it's obvious suspect, like they have an obvious suspect. It's pretty strong, but it's just not enough to take him to trial. So, right now, they do have enough to hold him on drug charges, which is definitely helpful.
24:42 Payton Moreland? But they feel confident that if they can just find Kelly or Kelly's body, this will be a sealed deal. So, they don't want to pounce too soon. Instead, they keep digging into Chris to build their case. And honestly, the more they learn about Chris, the more they investigate him, the worse things get. Because also in his apartment, they find a bunch of old hard drives. And there is a bunch of child pornography on these drives.
25:10 Garrett Moreland? Now, that's insane to me. Insane. Child pornography to me blows my mind that people actually watch child pornography.
25:21 Payton Moreland? I can't.
25:23 Payton Moreland? Like
25:24 Garrett Moreland? I can't. I don't like talking about it because
25:26 Payton Moreland? Go to
25:26 Garrett Moreland? Children, like children. Like, come on.
25:29 Payton Moreland? I don't know if there's a bigger sign to yourself that there's clearly something wrong.
25:34 Garrett Moreland? It's crazy.
25:36 Payton Moreland? The police confront him with this. They're like, hey, we find, we found these hard drives. There's child pornography on these. And he says, oh, that was a hard drive from an old job I worked at. It's not actually mine. Like, I didn't put that on there. I just collected them from an old job and had them in my house. But police aren't buying it. In fact, they think this is just more evidence that Chris Zacco is capable of some pretty unimaginable things. Still, for now, they are only able to charge him with drug possession and child pornography. By early November 2013, they shockingly let him out on bail, even though he's also the number one suspect in a murder investigation.
26:17 Payton Moreland? But still, the DA hasn't filed murder charges yet because they think there's a lot more on this guy that they'll uncover in due time. And the more witnesses they speak to, the more incriminating evidence they find. So some of Kelly's friends told the police that when Kelly started dating Chris, it wasn't unusual for her to show up to work with pretty big bruises on her wrists or her neck, places that looked pretty alarming.
26:46 Garrett Moreland? What is happening?
26:46 Payton Moreland? But whenever she was asked about it, Kelly would kind of shrug it off, saying it was nothing. Now, between that and the violent sex videos that they found on Chris's phone, police start to form a theory about what they think happened to Kelly the night she went missing. They believe that Kelly might have been killed during a pretty violent sex act. And based on surveillance videos they find, they think Chris found a way to move Kelly's body out to his car. And at some point, while his SIM card was removed from his cellphone, he likely drove somewhere to get rid of her remains. But they don't have any concrete details or evidence at this point. They are finding more things that validate this theory,
27:28 Payton Moreland? like five other women who come forward that dated Chris in the past and basically testified to police that he exhibited violent sexual behaviors towards them as well.
27:40 Garrett Moreland? Okay.
27:41 Payton Moreland? One said she actually was even sexually assaulted by Chris. Another said she got a restraining order from him after she broke up with him in 2005. But what really took detectives by surprise was there was a reason that when they initially talked to Chris, that he wasn't calling Kelly his girlfriend. Like, he was like, no, no, no, this is just someone I party with. And that's because police uncovered that Chris already had a girlfriend at this time. A woman named Megan Polak, who he had been in a very serious relationship with for four years.
28:17 Garrett Moreland? Apparently not that serious.
28:18 Payton Moreland? A woman that he was talking about marrying and who Kelly apparently had no idea even existed. Though the same seemed to be true for Megan also. She had no idea about Kelly until news broke that Chris was the number one suspect in her disappearance.
28:33 Garrett Moreland? Could you imagine dating someone? And then find out that not only are they dating other people, but that they probably murdered somebody?
28:42 Payton Moreland? Yeah, like a girl's missing that they were dating?
28:44 Garrett Moreland? How?
28:44 Payton Moreland? Well, and then also there were hard drives, the child pornography in his house, which is another reason he's looking sus.
28:49 Garrett Moreland? That would just hurt. That would be like unbelievable at first.
28:52 Payton Moreland? Yeah.
28:53 Garrett Moreland? Like what?
28:54 Payton Moreland? Well, as you're saying, she, when she discovers all of this, she is more than happy to come in and talk to police about it. All right, guys, we are jumping into an ad and it is one of my favorites, Quince. If you've listened to the show at all, you know how much I love Quince. Quince is not just a clothing store. Okay, guys, they have quality everything at this point. I actually just ordered some skincare from Quince because here's the one thing about Quince. I love that they have kind of just excluded the middlemen. And so they pass those savings on to you. So you're getting really good quality luxury pieces at a more affordable price.
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31:46 Payton Moreland? Chewpanions.chewy.com/murderwithmyhusband. Minimum purchase required. New customers only. Terms and conditions apply. See site for complete details. So Megan, the girlfriend of four years, said that on the night of October 11th, hours after Kelly was last seen, she and Chris had dinner plans for 7:30 PM. So this is the next day. And according to her, Chris showed up an hour late to dinner. And over the course of the night, he was acting very weird and nervous. And then he came back to her house and he was actually sweating so much that she had to change her sheets the next morning
32:26 Payton Moreland? because he was so sweaty. And in the days that followed, she just noticed a few odd things around Chris's apartment, like the fact that the shower curtain, a small rug, and a few decorative hand towels were all missing from his guest bathroom. This is the same guest bathroom that that cadaver dog Molly would hit on a few days later. And then she also realized that Chris's travel golf bag, which was always annoyingly sitting in Chris's living room, was now gone. This is something she remembered very clearly since this stupid bag was something she had to basically climb over anytime she wanted to go to the guest bathroom. Like it was an annoyance to her in their relationship and now it's gone.
33:10 Payton Moreland? But there was another strange detail, she told police. She says that she and Chris had been having their problems and they'd been arguing about a job opportunity she wanted to take back in Denver, Colorado. But Chris was very adamant that there was nothing she could do to convince him to move west. So basically he said, it's me or the job. So inevitably Megan turned down the job and chose to stay with Chris instead.
33:37 Garrett Moreland? And then he ends up being a murderer and that's crazy.
33:41 Payton Moreland? But
33:42 Garrett Moreland? That sucks.
33:43 Payton Moreland? On the morning of October 12th, when the two went to brunch, Chris told her something strange. Again, this is literally days after Kelly went missing. He asks her, hey, is that job in Colorado still on the table? Maybe we should just move there. Maybe we should just move there together. I'll go with you. You can take the job. Like I'll sacrifice for you. We can move there. So once Megan learns about all of this, she's like, oh, he wasn't being nice.
34:10 Garrett Moreland? He killed someone.
34:11 Payton Moreland? This is even more suspicious. And since detectives have been wondering how Chris got Kelly out of the apartment after he killed her, once they talked to Megan, they're like, mm, we think it was the missing golf bag.
34:24 Garrett Moreland? Yeah.
34:24 Payton Moreland? So investigators go back through all the footage from the apartment complex to see if they can catch Chris moving that bag in the hours after her disappearance. But they can't. And that's because apparently there are not a lot of cameras in this apartment complex. There is none in Chris's hallway, none in the elevators going down to the parking garage. There are cameras inside the garage, but none of them caught Chris on film with this golf bag. Now, whether Chris knew this, Or he just got lucky is unclear, but detectives start to piece together a timeline through all of their witnesses and evidence gathered so far. So on Friday morning, October 11th at 10 06 a.m., they see Chris standing by the driver's side door of his vehicle.
35:08 Payton Moreland? Again, no golf bag, but he then leaves the building at 10 08 a.m. And it's around that exact time that Kelly's phone goes dead, though probably turned off. Now, just 16 minutes after that, Chris is back in the parking garage. His car is parked and he's standing behind his trunk. And this trunk is open and detectives think they can spot a gray or silver object lying inside the trunk. One that looks like the golf bag. The videos go on to show Chris coming and going a bunch of other times that day. Remember, these are just like not a perfect surveillance video of this. They're trying to have kind of having to piece it together with different images.
35:51 Garrett Moreland? Yeah.
35:51 Payton Moreland? They can basically just tell that he's loading things into his car and leaving, loading things in and leaving. And then at 6 16 p.m. He leaves and he doesn't come back for the night. As we know, two hours later, he shows up an hour late to dinner with Megan, his girlfriend. And the reason police think he was so nervous and sweaty that night was because they believe that he still hadn't found a place to dump Kelly's body. They think it was sitting in the trunk of his car outside Megan's apartment.
36:21 Garrett Moreland? Okay.
36:22 Payton Moreland? So he's with his girlfriend because he needs an alibi. He can't just like no show.
36:26 Garrett Moreland? And he has a body in the car.
36:27 Payton Moreland? But he's so nervous because he needs to go get rid of this body. So when he wakes up the next day, he's got to do something about it. That's when he tells Megan a story. He says, there's this little cheese shop that he loves. It's called the Mouse House and it's 80 miles away from Milwaukee. He says, I have to go pick up this specific cheese before your parents come into town because I want them to try it. Mind you, this place is a bit of a tourist trap. There's way better cheese in Milwaukee that sell the same kind of cheese he's looking for. So this doesn't really make sense to detectives.
36:59 Garrett Moreland? Talking crap on the mousetrap shop.
37:02 Payton Moreland? Well, I'm just detectives are like, if you wanted the specific cheese, there was no reason to drive eighty miles.
37:08 Garrett Moreland? Right next door.
37:08 Payton Moreland? Like this is more a tourist thing, not like someone who lives here type thing.
37:12 Garrett Moreland? Yeah.
37:13 Payton Moreland? So they think this was Chris's excuse to get out of town and find a place to dump the body. And while he does get half a pound of cheese, Chris makes another stop along that drive to, to a sports authority where he buys some new sneakers. Now, police are able to map all of this out because Chris had used his credit card that day, which told them exactly where he was and at what time. And they realize all those timestamps add up to the time he was gone. Aside from about ninety minutes where they don't know where he was.
37:45 Garrett Moreland? Okay.
37:46 Payton Moreland? Which is plenty of time to get rid of a body. And then go buy some cheese for your alibi, get some new sneakers because your old ones are probably covered in evidence. So now they have an area to at least search for Kelly's body. Like they have an area where they're like, however far you can drive in ninety minutes, this is where we need to be searching.
38:06 Garrett Moreland? Which that's a large area.
38:08 Payton Moreland? Like it's a big area. It's gonna take some time. Now meanwhile, Chris stands trial for those other charges, the child pornography and the drug possession in November two thousand and fourteen. So time is moving on. They, it's very obvious that police and prosecutors are waiting for a body. They do not want to charge Chris until they find Kelly's body. So they are waiting, which is taking years. And so, yeah. So twenty fourteen goes by. He's sentenced to nineteen years in jail for the drug and child pornography charges, but they still haven't charged him for murder. But then in May twenty fifteen, everything changes.
38:50 Garrett Moreland? You got nineteen years for the drugs or is it mainly the child pornography?
38:54 Payton Moreland? I'm gonna assume they're hoping they can put him in jail and find the body in nineteen years and hopefully charge him for murder. So, yes, does he deserve nineteen years for having child pornography? In my opinion, a hundred percent. But is that normal?
39:08 Garrett Moreland? No.
39:08 Payton Moreland? I don't think so.
39:09 Garrett Moreland? Cause.
39:10 Payton Moreland? I don't think that's the usual.
39:11 Garrett Moreland? Cause I feel like usually unfortunately, there's many cases where it's like one to three years for child pornography.
39:16 Payton Moreland? Yeah.
39:17 Garrett Moreland? I'm guessing the judge was like, oh, well, I we think he killed someone.
39:20 Payton Moreland? With the DA on this.
39:21 Garrett Moreland? Maximum sentence.
39:22 Payton Moreland? Yeah, we'll go max.
39:23 Garrett Moreland? Until we see if we can find anything.
39:25 Payton Moreland? Right. So in May 2015, there, I mean, I'm alleged plan, what I'm assuming was happening.
39:31 Garrett Moreland? Yeah.
39:32 Payton Moreland? Changes. I mean, if you're the number one suspect in a murder charge, I don't think it's that crazy that they're like, well, we're going to give you the maximum on another sentence. I wish they actually did that for everyone who is a suspect in a murder case.
39:43 Garrett Moreland? Yeah.
39:43 Payton Moreland? Because oftentimes we see killers who only serve one to two years for a crime and then kill again because they're let out. So on May 1st, a man named Christopher Fountain is out for a walk in an area about 45 miles west of Milwaukee. And he's strolling along an embankment on this dead end road. When he spots something he thinks looks like a deer's leg bone. So he's like, he's just a curious little adventurer. He goes over to see this bone and when he gets closer, he realizes that there is actually a human skull.
40:19 Garrett Moreland? Oh my god.
40:20 Payton Moreland? Lying next to this bone. That's crazy to stumble upon.
40:25 Garrett Moreland? Saw a human skull. Honestly, I think that the first thought would be this is fake. I'd be like, no way. Like this is a Halloween skull. Like I wouldn't think it was real.
40:36 Payton Moreland? Well, here's the thing. Most of the skeletal remains are intact. It's basically a human skeletal body.
40:42 Garrett Moreland? Gosh.
40:43 Payton Moreland? There's no clothing around these bones. Now, of course, this guy calls local authorities who rush out. They collect the remains and six days later, they ran them against a set of dental records because obviously they know that this is in the area where Kelly.
40:57 Garrett Moreland? Yep.
40:58 Payton Moreland? Could have been.
41:00 Garrett Moreland? Dumped.
41:01 Payton Moreland? I just.
41:02 Garrett Moreland? Unfortunately.
41:02 Payton Moreland? I don't like saying that.
41:03 Garrett Moreland? I know. It's a horrible word, but I mean.
41:05 Payton Moreland? She's a real person and like how horrible that her body was just dumped.
41:09 Garrett Moreland? Somewhere I know.
41:11 Payton Moreland? Oh, it's gross. Um, but they know that this is within their area. They've been looking. So they run Kelly's dental records and it's a match. Now, unfortunately, it has been over a year and a half since Kelly was last seen. So you're not going to get a whole lot out of an autopsy.
41:29 Garrett Moreland? Yeah.
41:29 Payton Moreland? They aren't able to conclusively say how Kelly died. And unfortunately, as well, there's no physical evidence found at the scene either. There's no golf bag, no shower curtain, no hand towels, like nothing from the apartment is found with the remains. But there is one clue they are able to work off of, and that is the position in which Kelly's body was found. Her right leg was sort of rotated inward and her left arm strangely kind of was tangled around her back. Which to detectives tells them something, it looks like Kelly's body was stuffed into some kind of container and then got stiff like that.
42:14 Garrett Moreland? Yeah, the golf bag.
42:15 Payton Moreland? Like a golf bag. The biggest kicker, Kelly was found near the area that Chris went shopping for shoes and cheese that day. Which means their theory that Chris had used this trip as an excuse to get rid of Kelly's body, meaning that Kelly's body actually did probably sit in his car in an apartment complex. That theory was likely correct. Now that there is a body to add to the list of evidence against Chris, the district attorney feels ready to move forward with the case. But remember Chris is behind bars already serving time for those child pornography and drug possession charges. So there's not really a huge rush to get him off the streets because at the moment, he's not really a danger to society.
43:00 Payton Moreland? Which is why instead of charging him immediately, the DA actually takes their time putting this case against him together, trying to make it airtight. They're like. We are going to take time to investigate, find as much evidence as possible, make sure our cases airtight, charge him and prosecute him. So they re-interview all the witnesses. They take a second, third, fourth look at all of the evidence. They speak to all of the women they can from Chris's past and that process takes them another two years before they officially charged Chris Zocco with first degree reckless homicide, hiding a body. And they also seem to have found a likely cause of death because they also charged him with strangulation and suffocation.
43:42 Payton Moreland? So there's evidence the public doesn't know about at this point, but it won't be another year and a half after this.
43:50 Garrett Moreland? Gosh, dude.
43:51 Payton Moreland? Before he goes to trial. Now meanwhile, Chris is having a hard time staying out of trouble, even behind bars. As he's awaiting trial, one of Chris's cellmates speaks up saying, Chris came to him and asked for help with getting rid of another ex-girlfriend on the outside.
44:08 Garrett Moreland? So question, do you think that cellmates speak up because they get something from it?
44:13 Payton Moreland? Uh, yes, this is actually like a huge, uh, problem.
44:18 Garrett Moreland? I feel like I would only speak up if it was like, you'll get out of jail today.
44:22 Payton Moreland? Well, people think that they actually need to stop doing this, letting informants get things because then informants just lie to get things. They're like, oh, you're on trial for murder? Let me go over here.
44:33 Garrett Moreland? That's a good point.
44:34 Payton Moreland? And say, oh, he actually said this to me. I'll testify to it as long as I get moved up to a better prison or I get this or I get that.
44:41 Garrett Moreland? Yeah. Cause how do you know if they're lying or not?
44:43 Payton Moreland? So.
44:43 Garrett Moreland? And they're all in prison. So I mean, no offense, but.
44:45 Payton Moreland? The informant system is actually like, it's also a big issue in getting false convictions.
44:52 Garrett Moreland? Yeah.
44:52 Payton Moreland? Because informants will come in and say, oh yeah, someone said he did it and that person is actually innocent. So it's not, I think it's actually something we should kind of get rid of in my personal opinion.
45:02 Garrett Moreland? I never thought about it that way.
45:03 Payton Moreland? Uh, trials.
45:04 Garrett Moreland? Yeah.
45:05 Payton Moreland? But, um, or just as long as they're not promised anything. Like if they just come forward and aren't given anything for it, then that's great. You're just another eyewitness at that point.
45:14 Garrett Moreland? Yeah, but then they won't come forward because why come forward?
45:17 Payton Moreland? For the goodness of their heart.
45:19 Garrett Moreland? Oh, yeah. Yep.
45:21 Payton Moreland? So his inmates like, yeah, he's trying to hire a hitman to murder an ex-girlfriend on the outside. And they think it's Megan because Megan's actually planning on testifying. So the girlfriend of four years is going to testify against him. So the inmate's like, I'm pretty sure that's who he's trying to get rid of. He even goes as far as to talk prices with this guy, says, I'll pay you 2,500 to $5,000. So Chris gets another charge added to his already long list felony intimidation of a witness. But that's not the only thing this former cellmate had to tell police. Apparently Chris had told him exactly why he was behind bars. The inmate's like, he told me exactly what happened to Kelly. Like the murder, every detail, everything. So here's what this inmate tells police.
46:04 Payton Moreland? Chris claimed that before Kelly died, the two of them were having rough sex in his apartment. And eventually he took things too far and ended up killing Kelly by accident. He panicked when he realized Kelly was no longer breathing. So he carried her to the bathroom and tried to resuscitate her. But when he realized Kelly was already dead, he tried to do something with her body. He wrapped her in the guest bathroom shower curtain and used the garbage chute to get her body to the first level unnoticed. You heard that correctly, which makes sense because the cadaver dog did catch a scent at the garbage chute. And it could explain why Chris was never seen carrying the golf bag out of the building.
46:46 Payton Moreland? Now we should take this with a grain of salt for obvious reasons, but I do think this is maybe the closest to the truth we'll ever get when it comes to how Kelly died. I will say though, those charges of felony intimidation are later dropped because of lack of evidence. So this informant, I don't know, they don't trust him enough to come forward and testify. But I think it is important to include that Chris is not only trying to buy a hitman from prison allegedly. He's also caught trying to buy pornographic materials, which are off limits in prison. And he was specifically asking for choking pornography and younger ones.
47:27 Garrett Moreland? Okay.
47:29 Payton Moreland? So he's asking for the same thing he was caught with those hard drives that weren't his. He's asking for those again.
47:34 Garrett Moreland? This guy deserves to.
47:36 Payton Moreland? So even behind bars, Chris has not been able to control his issues or his urges. And he definitely has something with choking. And I do think, I mean, even the state thinks it's possible that she was killed accidentally during choking because of the videos they have.
47:53 Garrett Moreland? Definitely possible. What's interesting too, if he would have just called the cops, he probably would have just gotten manslaughter, which is like five to 10 years.
47:59 Payton Moreland? He could have. I mean.
48:01 Garrett Moreland? Not saying that's what should have happened because he obviously sounds like a horrible person.
48:05 Payton Moreland? Well, and he killed her. I mean, you took it too far. This isn't supposed to happen.
48:07 Garrett Moreland? But it's just interesting that if it didn't go through this and he called the cops.
48:11 Payton Moreland? He might have been able to get lesser charges.
48:14 Garrett Moreland? For sure. Probably would have. Yeah.
48:16 Payton Moreland? I'm still glad they caught him for the child pornography.
48:18 Garrett Moreland? For sure.
48:19 Payton Moreland? So the trial comes and while there is no smoking gun in this case, like they didn't find anything with the body, there are a lot of little things that obviously point in his direction and the defense tries to call a lot of these little things into question. They're like, listen, there's no solid evidence here. They questioned the cadaver dog. They also point to the fact that Kelly was said to have had other partners while she was with Chris and why didn't police look into any of them? Now, in the end, the jury didn't buy it. On October 5th, 2018, they find Chris guilty on all counts. He was sentenced to an additional 31 years behind bars with no credit for time served. So to this day, Chris denies having anything to do with Kelly's death.
49:01 Payton Moreland? And while he does plan to appeal his conviction, as it stands, he won't be eligible for release until 2065, when he is 90 years old. So if there is anything we can learn from a man like Chris, it is to always trust those red flags, whether that's a new relationship or even one you have been in for years. When you see a warning sign, go with your gut. And I am not blaming Kelly. I am saying. That people do tend to show their true self eventually.
49:34 Garrett Moreland? Yeah.
49:35 Payton Moreland? Because sometimes it is hard to know the real person you're sleeping next to. And if Kelly's story has moved you, you can actually make a donation to the Sajornor Family Peace Center, where her family had previously set up a fundraiser for women impacted by violence, which we will be donating to. So I want to include it for you guys as well. You can visit the site at www.familypeacecenter.org to help women impacted by violence. And her family has kind of advocated around this. I do think it's amazing, I've said this before and I'll say it again, when there is little pieces of light that come out of such a dark thing that happens in the world.
50:18 Payton Moreland? But yeah, that is the case of Kelly Dwyer.
50:21 Garrett Moreland? No, I'm sick of people dying.
50:24 Payton Moreland? I know.
50:24 Garrett Moreland? I'm sick of people getting killed. It's just, it's so, it's, I don't even, yeah, frustrating.
50:31 Payton Moreland? It's just like, because here's the thing.
50:34 Garrett Moreland? I will never not be an eye for an eye type of person.
50:37 Payton Moreland? I want to be like, I mean, I don't even want to do this, but I think if I'm playing devil's advocate, it's like, oh, it could have been an accident. But I'm like, I don't know, bro. Like you had child pornography on hard drives in your house, not just like on dark websites, like you had it on hard drives in your house. I, I lowkey just think you're a dangerous person.
50:58 Garrett Moreland? Yeah.
50:59 Payton Moreland? Like, I don't, I don't know. I think you're just a dangerous person. I don't think it's that shocking that you ended up hurting someone.
51:06 Garrett Moreland? Yeah.
51:07 Payton Moreland? I don't know.
51:09 Garrett Moreland? I agree.
51:10 Payton Moreland? All right, you guys, that is our episode for this week and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.
51:15 Garrett Moreland? I hate it.
51:15 Payton Moreland? Goodbye.
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