251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case

In this episode, Payton and Garrett explore the shocking murder of Kent Heitholt, a well-loved journalist killed outside his office. The case takes an unexpected turn when a local teen begins having vivid dreams revealing clues about the identity of the killer. LINKS: NEW MERCH LINK: https://mwmhshop.com Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7?si=f5224c9fd99542a7 Case Sources: TheCinemaholic.com - https://thecinemaholic.com/kent-heitholt-murder-how-did-he-die-who-killed-him/ ColumbiaTribune.com -https://www.columbiatribune.com/story/news/local/2021/10/18/kent-heitholt-murdered-20-years-ago-tribune-investigation-trial/8450130002/ Komu.com - https://www.komu.com/news/midmissourinews/new-justice-group-seeks-information-in-2001-murder-of-kent-heitholt/article_f1641e56-6c42-11ee-9bd6-639340b49e98.html FreeCharlesErickson.org - http://www.freecharleserickson.org/KentHeitholt.html KMBC.com - https://www.kmbc.com/article/ryan-ferguson-thinks-he-knows-who-really-killed-kent-heitholt/3444678 EntertainmentNow.com - https://entertainmentnow.com/news/kent-heitholt-ryan-ferguson-accused-murdering/ Wikipedia.com - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_W._Ferguson#:~:text=Charles%20Erickson%20received%20a%2025,of%20his%2025%2Dyear%20sentence. CaseText.com - https://casetext.com/case/ferguson-v-state-338 ColumbianMissourian.com - https://www.columbiamissourian.com/opinion/local_columnists/erickson-ferguson-trial-still-disturbing-20-years-after-heitholt-murder/article_04c2f4f6-3e3f-11ec-bb82-8fcd153a1c45.html ColumbiaHeartbeat.com - https://columbiaheartbeat.com/columbia-life/crime/705-121013 NYPost.com - https://nypost.com/2024/11/06/us-news/ryan-ferguson-receives-new-38m-payout-stemming-from-overturned-2005-wrongful-conviction/ Change.org - https://www.change.org/p/investigate-mike-boyd-for-the-murder-of-kent-heitholt-ab35bf3a-4fdb-45dd-8f86-d944ff9f3aa8 ABCNews.go.com - https://abcnews.go.com/US/murder-convict-freed-case-unravels/story?id=20207994 CBSNews.com - https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/kent-heitholt-murder-crime-scene-suspects/3/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:00Payton Moreland?

  You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Peyton Morland.

• 1:07Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm Garrett Moreland.

• 1:08Payton Moreland?

  And he's the husband.

• 1:09Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm the husband. And good morning, good afternoon.

• 1:15Garrett Moreland?

  I don't know. I wish I had something else to say. Like, I was trying to wake everybody up. Everyone's listening in their cars early in the morning.

• 1:25Garrett Moreland?

  I didn't know you were doing it first, but I get it now.

• 1:27Payton Moreland?

  That kind of wakes you up.

• 1:29Garrett Moreland?

  That you wouldn't understand.

• 1:31Payton Moreland?

  It kind of is starring.

• 1:33Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah. Hey, everybody.

• 1:35Payton Moreland?

  Hey.

• 1:35Garrett Moreland?

  Thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. Thank you for supporting us.

• 1:39Payton Moreland?

  Hey, don't blush. You guys, don't blush when I tell you this, but I know that you're on the other side listening to this looking so cute. I know you're looking so cute listening to our show right now. Don't blush. Don't be embarrassed. Own it. But I know you're looking cute.

• 1:53Garrett Moreland?

  You're beautiful.

• 1:56Garrett Moreland?

  You're beautiful. All I have to say is you're beautiful. If you feel like subscribing to our bonus content, we have bonus episodes and ad free content on Apple subscriptions, Spotify, Patreon. We love you guys. And I swear, we are trying our hardest to do your Daisy this month. That is my goal. For this month. I mean, we have lots of goals. It's one of our goals because I also have a procedure on the 21st.

• 2:28Garrett Moreland?

  I'm not gonna say what I'm doing yet, or what's happening.

• 2:30Payton Moreland?

  I think you've already said it.

• 2:32Garrett Moreland?

  Maybe I have, maybe I haven't. I don't know.

• 2:36Garrett Moreland?

  Um, I think Peyton and I are a little giddy this morning. And I'll stop there and we can kind of keep going so we don't take too much time.

• 2:45Payton Moreland?

  Hey, yeah, listen. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts right now.

• 2:51Payton Moreland?

  Double click, no ads. That's that simple. That's simple. Double click, no ads. You don't even have to think about it. You don't even have to, you can do it with your eyes closed.

• 2:59Garrett Moreland?

  Same with Spotify and Patreon.

• 3:00Payton Moreland?

  But yeah, anyways, it's just a simple double click. Alright, Gary. Take it away with your 10 seconds.

• 3:07Garrett Moreland?

  I do have 10 seconds. Um, Peyton and I have been watching, well, a couple of things that's going on in our lives right now. Um, I guess we'll update you guys.

• 3:16Payton Moreland?

  Wait, did we tell him about my meniscus?

• 3:19Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, last week.

• 3:20Payton Moreland?

  Okay.

• 3:20Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 3:21Payton Moreland?

  But no, we got the MRI back.

• 3:24Garrett Moreland?

  MRI?

• 3:25Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 3:25Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, Peyton does have a torn meniscus. We got the MRI back. It is torn. Um, it looks like a small to medium sized tear. We're going to do some other things for surgery. It's gonna be last resort. And we'll keep everyone updated. Um, but it is feeling the best today. It's felt in a while, which is good, though.

• 3:43Payton Moreland?

  I go, I'm back on my Megan knees.

• 3:45Garrett Moreland?

  And Peyton was trying to move around and I'm like, get your butt back in bed. Now get off. But she's doing good and I've been taking care of her.

• 3:56Garrett Moreland?

  And yeah, but I have.

• 3:58Payton Moreland?

  Okay, keep going.

• 3:59Garrett Moreland?

  Have I?

• 4:00Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, I just thought that was a nice humble brag.

• 4:03Garrett Moreland?

  Have I been taken care of?

• 4:04Payton Moreland?

  A hundred percent.

• 4:05Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, I'm brag about it.

• 4:09Garrett Moreland?

  Back to the show Peyton and I started. Well, a couple of things that's going on. Peyton and I have this really bad habit right now where we are literally staying up until 2am. We haven't done this since we were first got married and we were like 21 years old. I don't know what's going on, don't know what's happening, but we've been staying up until 2am. That's too late for us. We usually go back at like 10. Part of the reason is nighttime is like a become a routine for us where at 11 o'clock Peyton starts coloring and then I turn on this new TV show we've been watching called Land Man.

• 4:39Payton Moreland?

  I didn't even know what it was called.

• 4:41Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, it's called Land Man. It's good. So I started watching it by myself and then I've learned over the years that what I do is I take my headphones off. I turn the computer a little bit towards Peyton and I watch the show and I put the volume on so she can hear it. And then I can tell if she's interested in the show or not because Peyton won't just sit down with me and watch a TV show. I have to trick her into watching the TV show.

• 5:06Payton Moreland?

  The idea of starting a new show really seems aggressive and overbearing to me.

• 5:11Garrett Moreland?

  I get that.

• 5:11Payton Moreland?

  So now Garrett just doesn't even ask. He just slowly.

• 5:14Garrett Moreland?

  I just slowly play it. I slowly gaslight her into liking the show.

• 5:18Payton Moreland?

  I would prefer it that way because then the the stress of starting a new show isn't on my shoulders.

• 5:23Garrett Moreland?

  And she likes this one. We both like it. If you haven't seen Land Man, it's on Amazon Prime. It's not a sponsor. We just, we like the show. It's been really good. So every night we watch an episode or two, the last few nights. It's been fun. Been having a good time. Peyton's been coloring. We'll stay up until 2am and then we'll go to bed. Great show. We love it. Go check it out if you want. Yeah. That's what I got for my 10 seconds. That's what's happening in our life. You got anything else, babe? This is, oh my gosh, I already know what all the com. You YouTubers and podcasters, so podcast listeners that don't enjoy our intros, you can skip, skip, skip a little bit, just so you know.

• 6:03Payton Moreland?

  Ain't no shame in the skip game.

• 6:05Garrett Moreland?

  You can skip the first little bit if you want, instead of complaining about it.

• 6:10Payton Moreland?

  And I know you're like, geez, Garrett doesn't know what 10 seconds is, but let me remind you, no man on earth knows what 10 seconds is.

• 6:17Garrett Moreland?

  Also, that was messed up. Also.

• 6:21Garrett Moreland?

  This has evolved. At the beginning of our, at the beginning of the podcast, it was like 10 seconds.

• 6:28Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 6:29Garrett Moreland?

  And now Peyton and I just, we're having fun.

• 6:32Payton Moreland?

  Yapping.

• 6:33Garrett Moreland?

  Yapping. Alright, let's get into this week's case.

• 6:37Payton Moreland?

  Our sources for this episode are the Cinemaholic, Columbia Tribune, Como.com, FreeCharlesErickson.org, KMBC.com, EntertainmentNow.com, casetext.com, ColumbianMissourian.com, columbiaheartbeat.com, NewYorkPost, Change.org, ABCNews.go.com, and CBS News. Okay, so as we've done this show over the years, kinda crazy to say, there is one thing that has definitely come to my mind, the forefront of my mind more than when I used to not do a true crime show, and that is being wrongly accused of murder. And all that that entails, getting confused for the suspect, being in the wrong place at

• 7:17Payton Moreland?

  the wrong time, finding yourself in circumstances where you just look like the most obvious answer, maybe even when you aren't. But I know what you're thinking, that's what evidence is for. We have a lot of highly advanced ways of knowing whether or not someone's guilty. And I wish I could say, yeah, that, that's like a foolproof solution, right? That calms my nerves. But after hearing today's story, I realized, no, it's still a fallible system. Anyone could find themselves sitting in a courtroom, being convicted for a murder that they might not have done. And honestly, it could be of someone they've never even met or heard of in their life, without a shred of evidence. It actually happens.

• 8:00Payton Moreland?

  And today, I'm going to tell you a story where that was the case.

• 8:03Garrett Moreland?

  Alright.

• 8:04Payton Moreland?

  So it's 2001, in the city of Columbia, Missouri. This is about halfway between St. Louis and Kansas City. This is where 48-year-old Kent William Heitholt calls home.

• 8:18Payton Moreland?

  Kent is sort of everything you picture when you imagine a family man. He's a teddy bear of a guy at six foot three, around 300 pounds with a beard and glasses. He went to the University of Missouri back in the seventies to study journalism. And that's where he met his wife, Deborah. And eventually they had two children, Callie and Vince. And with his passion for sports, Kent found work as a sports journalist and had been at a few different publications over the years. But then in 1996, Kent found where he belonged. At a fairly large paper called the Columbia Daily Tribune. Now Kent didn't just cover the big local games.

• 9:02Payton Moreland?

  He took a big interest in some of the smaller overlooked teams in the area, too. He gave them their moment in the spotlight. It was something that Kent was really admired for. In fact, he loved an underdog, even outside the sports world. Those who worked with Kent said he was always willing to mentor or give someone with no experience a chance to really shine. Especially when he climbed the ranks to sports editor. So Kent, who actually earned the nickname "high tea" from his colleagues, was not only well-respected and great at his job. He was said to be very easygoing, good-natured, a father figure both outside and inside the office.

• 9:43Payton Moreland?

  Which is why the events after Halloween night in 2001 came as such a shock to everyone who knew him. So that evening, October 31st, 2001. Many of the sports staff writers were working late, getting ready for the upcoming basketball season. Kent was among them, working well past midnight into November 1st. But he knew he was on a clock at 2:00 a.m. every night. The office computer systems actually shut down. So Kent and some members of his team that Halloween night worked right up until the clock struck two and then called it a night. Kent packed up his things and went outside to his car. He stopped for a minute.

• 10:27Payton Moreland?

  To speak with another part-time staff writer who was also getting ready to drive off and call it a night. It was a younger man that Kent had been mentoring named Mike Boyd. So after a quick, forgettable chat, Mike said goodbye to Kent and drove off for the evening. But a few minutes later, two custodial workers named Shawna Ornt and Jerry Trump were outside the building having a cigarette. When they saw Kent's car still in the parking lot. Obviously, this is weird because people have already left for the night. He should be long gone. But the other thing that they thought was weird was Kent's driver's side door was open. Shawna decides to take a few steps closer to Kent's car to get a better look.

• 11:12Payton Moreland?

  And that's when she sees two shadowy figures seemingly peek up from behind the car.

• 11:20Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 11:21Payton Moreland?

  Now, they see each other, Shawna, the custodial worker and these two people. So one of them bolts off and the other one stops and spoke to her. Shawna said they looked her right in the eyes and said, quote, "Somebody's hurt." And that's when she and Jerry saw Kent lying on the ground next to his car. And he was dead. He appeared to have been hit in the head and strangled with his own belt. So in the time he had the conversation with his coworker.

• 11:56Garrett Moreland?

  What the freak? Okay.

• 11:58Payton Moreland?

  And then now he's hurt. She's seen two people behind the car. One takes off. One says, hey, somebody's hurt. And at 2:26 a.m., these custodial workers are dialing 911. So when police arrived, they found there was actually a decent amount of evidence left behind at the scene. For starters, the attacker was so aggressive, they actually snapped Kent's belt and left the buckle along with a small piece of leather behind. There was also a series of bloody shoe prints heading away from the crime scene and plenty of fingerprints on Kent's car door.

• 12:38Garrett Moreland?

  Oh.

• 12:39Payton Moreland?

  So, police have to wonder, is this a robbery? I mean, it's 2 a.m. Or was there a more personal motive behind this? Because this scene is sort of confusing, okay? Kent's watch and the keys to his car are missing, but obviously his car is still there. But his wallet is still sitting inside his open-door vehicle. Here's the other thing, though. If this was a robbery, why would you rob a 6'3", 300-pound guy like Kent? He does not seem like a very easy target. Luckily for detectives, they have two really strong witnesses who actually seem to have interacted with one of the suspects.

• 13:22Payton Moreland?

  And Shauna says she got a pretty good look at one of the guys, the one who stopped and talked to her. So, she sits down with a sketch artist. She says the guy was white, muscular, average height, with blond hair, early 20s, maybe. Police release this sketch, and nothing comes of it at all. And I'm sad to say that Kent, this family man, this man who was highly adored in his life and community, his murder goes cold for years.

• 13:52Garrett Moreland?

  Which is interesting, because you said they had a good amount of evidence, right? They had fingerprints.

• 13:56Payton Moreland?

  Yep. But police don't do anything. There's no arrests, there's no suspects' names. For years, nothing comes of it.

• 14:04Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, I'm curious to see if this, um, actually, no. Because the way you explained at the beginning doesn't seem like it's going to lead to this. But I figured, oh, maybe it just took years because then they finally matched DNA, and then you know. You're smiling at me.

• 14:19Payton Moreland?

  No, keep going.

• 14:21Garrett Moreland?

  Because of all the new DNA technology and relatives and so on and so forth.

• 14:25Payton Moreland?

  Right. Well, for what it's worth, the Columbia Police Department does keep interviewing other people who saw Kent that day. They put together his last day, basically. They interview other writers who were at the office, including Mike Boyd, who was the person who saw him just before he drove away that night. But those two witness statements from the custodial workers, well, the police just can't move past them because as far as they're concerned, they believe that these two college-aged guys who were hiding behind the car and then essentially just ran off are probably the suspects they are looking for. Problem is, no one can identify them.

• 15:06Payton Moreland?

  Until 2003, when someone sees the sketch, okay, so two years later, and thinks, wait a second, is that me? So on New Year's Eve 2003, there's a party in Columbia, just miles away from where Kent was killed two years prior. It's a bunch of college-aged kids. Many of them are friends from high school, looking to celebrate together over the break. And amongst them are 19-year-old Ryan Ferguson and 19-year-old Charles Erickson. Alright guys, we're jumping into an ad, and I have to ask, have you ever gone to a store for one thing and then walk out with something totally different? That's me every time I shop

• 15:46Payton Moreland?

  on Whatnot. And I'm not mad about it. I've gotten such cool, unique stuff that I didn't even realize I needed. And honestly, feels like I'm at the mall, but from the comfort of my own home when I'm shopping on Whatnot. Whatnot is the top destination for live shopping, which is wildly different from traditional e-commerce. Honestly, it is so fun. On Whatnot, you're connecting with actual, real sellers and other shoppers. It's like shopping with a friend. This is actually where Garrett gets all of his gaming cards, his collectible cards from, but they have way more than that: makeup, perfume, clothes, handbags, jewelry. Honestly, just get on Whatnot, browse around,

• 16:27Payton Moreland?

  See what it's like, see what it's all about and you'll understand my obsession. It's a great way to find new brands because sellers don't gatekeep. Jared and I love whatnot and you will too. Download whatnot today and get $20 off your first live purchase. Search whatnot, spelled W H A T N O T, in the app store. Sign up and take a shopping trip. Terms apply. Alright guys, we are getting into an ad and it is IM8. Now, tell me if you have felt this headache that I'm about to describe. You want to start taking care of your body. You start looking into supplements. You start buying a ton of different supplements and then you learn the one you buy isn't actually good. So then you have to buy another one. And next thing you know, you have a cabinet full of supplements that you're not actually taking. Because who wants to take 35 pills in one day?

• 17:13Payton Moreland?

  Well, IM8 is here to rescue you. It is the way to simplify your supplement routine once and for all. Honestly, they make it so easy. I can trust what I'm putting in my body and it's all condensed into one. Let me tell you about it. You get 16 supplements that replace 90 ingredients across nine major organ systems. And it's all in one drink. You heard that right, one drink, all of that. The problem with supplements is you think you need a cabinet full of them to fill your best, but you really don't. IM8's Daily Ultimate Essentials has 16 supplements in one drink for $2.61 a day. Go to im8health.com/husband right now or click on the link in the description and use code HUSBAND

• 17:57Payton Moreland?

  for a free welcome kit, five free travel sachets, plus 10% off your order. That's code HUSBAND at im8health.com/husband. Code HUSBAND at im8health.com/husband. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, or prevent any disease. Now, Ryan and Charles haven't seen each other in a bit, but they used to party together all of the time in high school. In fact, they were actually out partying together the night that Kent died back in 2001. That was Halloween. Recently, though, Charles has been thinking a lot about that Halloween night,

• 18:39Payton Moreland?

  particularly because he had seen a sketch of the suspects in that case a few months earlier. And ever since then, he'd been having these weird dreams, okay? They're more like flashbacks, maybe even memories. But Charles says that he sees these, the sketch, and then starts having dreams that him and his friend Ryan killed Kent that night.

• 19:05Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, what is going on?

• 19:07Payton Moreland?

  And the reason this happens is he's pretty sure the person in that sketch, the main suspect in this case, is him. So this has been eating away at Charles so much over the last few months that he actually approaches Ryan about it at the party.

• 19:22Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 19:23Payton Moreland?

  He goes, "Look, back in 2001, this guy died, okay? We were partying just a few blocks away from where the murder happened." And he said, "I did a lot of cocaine, I drank a lot of alcohol that night." And he says, "I have no memory, I'm pretty sure I blacked out that night." And he looks at Ryan and he says, "Dude, did we do it? Like, did we kill someone?"

• 19:43Garrett Moreland?

  No way.

• 19:44Payton Moreland?

  And Ryan's like,

• 19:45Garrett Moreland?

  Maybe I guess.

• 19:46Payton Moreland?

  "Dude, no way, it's impossible, I drove you home that night." Ryan just laughs the entire thing off. And he goes into 2004 with practically zero thoughts about it, but Charles, he can't shake it. In fact, he goes to two other friends and says, "Hey, can I get your advice?" However, those two friends take it a little more seriously than Ryan does. I mean, you have to think, if a friend comes up to you and goes, "Hey, I might have committed a murder when I was blacked out back in 2001 and this sketch looks exactly like me." So one of the friends goes to the police after seeing how guilty Charles was acting. And then on March 10th, 2004, police show up to Moberly Area Community College with an arrest warrant for Charles.

• 20:31Garrett Moreland?

  Holy crap, this is gonna get wild.

• 20:33Payton Moreland?

  And here's what you have to take into consideration. This case has had zero movement, really, since the day it happened, two years ago. So police are probably getting a little desperate to find someone to blame, at least to give some sense of closure to his family. And here's someone that was basically just served up to them on a silver platter. They basically did their jobs for them. So when Charles finally sits before police, he opens the floodgates. He tells them everything that he thinks happened back on the night of October 31st to November 1st. Here's what he says. That evening, him, Charles, a 17-year-old high school senior at the time, was partying at a friend's house in Columbia.

• 21:15Payton Moreland?

  But when police broke up the party, he and his friend, Ryan Ferguson, who was just arriving at the busted party, decided to go meet up with Ryan's older sister and keep the night going. Now, she was out at a bar in downtown Columbia called By George's. Now, By George's was only a few blocks away from Kent's offices. In order to get into the bar, though, Ryan's sister took two of her friend's IDs and let Charles and Ryan use them to get into the bar with her, and apparently it worked. But here's where things get weird about Charles' story of that night. Remember how he told Ryan a couple of months earlier that he blacked out that night? So he doesn't remember if they did it or not? He just has this feeling that maybe they did?

• 22:00Payton Moreland?

  Once he gets in front of police, they somehow get a full-length story out of him, okay?

• 22:08Garrett Moreland?

  What?

• 22:09Payton Moreland?

  Somehow, the missing pieces of that night come together suddenly. Now, he says, "We stayed for a few hours. We had plenty of drinks, but around 1 a.m., the two of them decided to leave." These two 17-year-olds. "When Ryan's sister refused to give them cash to keep the party going, Charles says that Ryan proposed robbing somebody. So they grabbed a tire iron from Ryan's trunk and began walking around town, looking for someone to jump in the early morning hours."

• 22:38Garrett Moreland?

  Why?

• 22:39Payton Moreland?

  They wanted money to keep partying.

• 22:41Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 22:42Payton Moreland?

  So they eventually found themselves in the Columbia Tribune parking lot, just as Kent Heitholt was leaving the building. Charles said, "Once he was alone, they ran up to him. Charles hit him in the head repeatedly with the tire iron, while Ryan stole his watch and car keys."

• 22:59Garrett Moreland?

  Holy crap.

• 23:01Payton Moreland?

  Charles says then Ryan removed Kent's belt and strangled him.

• 23:06Payton Moreland?

  Okay, so this is a full confession. You have to wonder, did Charles really just remember all of this? Like with the detective's help suddenly? Or were the police in this interview? Leading him to believe that that's what happened?

• 23:20Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 23:20Payton Moreland?

  He came in and said, I don't know, maybe we did, I was blacked out. And suddenly this is the confession that they get on tape. Because it takes them a really long time to get this cohesive story out of him. In fact, the first few times they question him, there's a lot that he gets wrong about the actual crime. Okay, so they're like, well, if you're the one that committed it, you would know things. And he really gets things wrong. For example.

• 23:44Garrett Moreland?

  I, I mean, I guess they were in 2004, whatever, but the amount of people like this not gonna ask for an attorney?

• 23:51Payton Moreland?

  You didn't know, and also he's, I mean, he's youngish and also.

• 23:55Garrett Moreland?

  Just sitting there.

• 23:56Payton Moreland?

  He's worried that he might have done it because he saw this sketch.

• 24:00Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 24:01Payton Moreland?

  And I mean, when you've sat in a police interrogation where you feel like you have no rights and.

• 24:05Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, especially if you don't know, you're not educated at that point, it is hard.

• 24:09Payton Moreland?

  I think it's a little bit more common knowledge now that like, hey, you actually don't have to talk to police without an attorney. So get this, this is how these interrogations are going. They're like, okay, in the, in the first couple, they're like, okay, Charles, if you, if one of you strangled Kent, what did you strangle him with? Cause obviously the police know it was the belt, but that wasn't released to the public, right? So he says, um, a shirt. And then police are like, a shirt? Are you sure it was a shirt? And he's like, uh, no, maybe it was a bungee cord. Okay, Charles, when he comes in originally, has no idea that Kent was strangled with a belt.

• 24:50Payton Moreland?

  And when asked if he had any blood on his clothes or any injuries the following day, Charles is like, mm, no, there was nothing weird the next day. At one point in interrogation, Charles literally says, quote, "It's so foggy, I could be fabricating all of this."

• 25:10Payton Moreland?

  But if you asked Ryan Ferguson, he would say Charles was making this entire thing up. And yet Ryan is also arrested immediately after Charles gives this, I mean, honestly, seemingly coerced confession, because how does his story change multiple times until finally it matches the correct one? And Ryan's story is completely different. So according to Ryan, he's like, no, I wasn't even drunk that night. He said he had a couple of drinks, but he was clear headed. He claims, no, he was right. We were at the bar, but we left around 1:15 a.m. that night and I drove Charles home. And then I went home and I went to bed. End of story. We did not rob someone. We did not try to find cash to keep the party.

• 25:53Garrett Moreland?

  So he remembers a lot more obviously than?

• 25:55Payton Moreland?

  Ryan?

• 25:56Garrett Moreland?

  Than Ryan, yes.

• 25:57Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, because he's saying, no, I wasn't even drunk.

• 25:59Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 26:00Payton Moreland?

  He says, there was no wandering around town. There was definitely no murder. He insists, quote, "I have absolutely nothing to do with this murder. I wasn't even anywhere near that crime scene." But police don't seem to care. They also don't seem to care that none of the evidence can be conclusively tied back to Ryan or Charles. Neither of their fingerprints are found on the vehicle. There was not a random hair of theirs at the crime scene. There was no bloody prints of theirs. The only thing that remotely fits, the only thing that really ties these boys to the crime scene is Shawna Ort's description of two white, college-aged boys.

• 26:41Payton Moreland?

  And still, both Ryan Ferguson and Charles Erickson are charged with murder primarily based on Charles seemingly coerced confession.

• 26:51Garrett Moreland?

  So they just didn't? Yeah, so they didn't believe him?

• 26:56Payton Moreland?

  They didn't believe Ryan, no.

• 26:57Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, so I wonder how that works.

• 26:58Payton Moreland?

  I don't understand how Charles can be like, honestly, I blacked out and I could be making all of this up. I just saw that sketch and it freaked me out. And the police are like, yep, you guys did it.

• 27:06Garrett Moreland?

  How does Charles not look at Ryan and be like, oh, I believe you. You were with me that night? You know, it's also kind of.

• 27:14Payton Moreland?

  Okay, well.

• 27:15Garrett Moreland?

  Like is he not, is Charles not freaking out at this point going, oh, I killed someone?

• 27:20Payton Moreland?

  Totally could be. You also have to take into consideration that there could be underlying problems here of like.

• 27:26Garrett Moreland?

  Mental health, like maybe he has OCD.

• 27:27Payton Moreland?

  OCD or something that is causing him extreme guilt. Um, that he like can't make sense of in, in his head, but. He might not, you know, like, there's just so many things that could make people react differently in this situation.

• 27:40Garrett Moreland?

  That's wild.

• 27:41Payton Moreland?

  That we have no idea. You know what I mean?

• 27:44Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, like if I stole a cookie, I would never look back.

• 27:48Payton Moreland?

  Okay, well, stealing a cookie and murdering someone, but the only reason I say that is because I personally am very close to someone who has guilt based OCD. And if they saw a sketch that looked like them and knew that they were somewhere near that, there's a very high chance that they would convince themselves they did it.

• 28:04Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, if I saw a sketch that looked like me, I'd be like. What the?

• 28:08Payton Moreland?

  So we just don't know.

• 28:09Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, take that out, Brandon. I can't cuss.

• 28:11Payton Moreland?

  So we just don't know, like, why Charles is doing this, but there could be. Innocent explanations for it. You know what I mean? Especially because he knows no details of the crime. He. Knew nothing. When he went in to confess, he just said, hey, this looks like me.

• 28:25Garrett Moreland?

  He went in to confess something that he didn't.

• 28:28Payton Moreland?

  Right.

• 28:29Garrett Moreland?

  We assume he didn't do.

• 28:31Payton Moreland?

  So. Charles actually takes a plea deal for second degree murder. Because what are they gonna do? Get, I mean, they're gonna have to get his confession thrown out and that's gonna be hard in 2003. So he takes a plea deal. He gets a 25 year sentence. But part of that deal is that he has to testify. Against Ryan Ferguson during his trial because Ryan is definitely not pleading guilty. Now, Charles says some pretty wild stuff on the stand. First, he says. I did this. He did this. We did this. I did not dream anything. I did not make anything up. And that he couldn't care less about what happens to Ryan because he knows they're both guilty and he thinks this is the right thing to do.

• 29:12Payton Moreland?

  And then he goes on to basically act out the events of that night in front of the jury, um, how he hit Kent with the tire iron. And then he shows how Ryan had pinned down Kent with his foot and strangled him with the belt. So when someone is admitting to something with that much conviction, like acting out a crime, it can be pretty convincing. So this is not great for Ryan Ferguson because he's on trial and someone's saying, no, we did this together and this is exactly how it happened.

• 29:41Garrett Moreland?

  I, I don't know what I would do in that position. Could you imagine you're like, no, we didn't murder someone and your friend's like, yes, we did. You're like, dude, no, we didn't. And your friend's like, yeah, we did. This is what happened. You're just sitting there like, like, what are you supposed to do? You're fighting for your life.

• 29:56Payton Moreland?

  And you can't blame the jury because I, I mean, unless you're being told, hey, this co, this confession might've been coerced, which we know happens all the time. Or, hey, you know, there could be underlying issues or, hey, there was absolutely no physical evidence tying them to this crime, even though there is evidence at the crime scene. If someone comes forward and says, hey, he did this, that would be really hard to not believe.

• 30:21Garrett Moreland?

  I always thought about people get convicted and they're innocent. That's gotta be one of the weirdest and most suffocating possible feelings.

• 30:33Payton Moreland?

  That's a good word.

• 30:33Garrett Moreland?

  You could feel because you're just, you're suffocated. You're helpless. You can't do anything. You're just like, ah, okay.

• 30:40Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 30:40Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 30:41Payton Moreland?

  I mean, and Charles isn't the only witness at that trial. Remember you have the custodian. So Jerry Trump testifies and he claims that while he was serving time on another unrelated charge, his wife sent him an updated news article of the crime and that article included mug shots of Charles and Ryan. And Jerry said, once he saw those photos, he immediately knew he was looking at the same guys he saw in the parking lot that night. So now you also have an eyewitness saying, no, I saw these boys in the parking lot that night. And he tells the jury this. Okay. But. Like I was saying earlier, what the jury did not get to hear was any evidence pointing

• 31:20Payton Moreland?

  to Ryan Ferguson or Charles Erickson. Okay, all they have is eyewitness evidence. That's it. And even though the defense argues, hey, none of the hair that was found, none of the blood, none of the fingerprints match Ryan Ferguson's or Charles for that matter, it didn't seem to matter. Apparently, they even did a sweep of the car that Ryan was driving that night. They found no signs of blood in that vehicle.

• 31:46Garrett Moreland?

  Holy crap. So I mean, nothing. There's zero.

• 31:48Payton Moreland?

  Zero. Yeah.

• 31:49Garrett Moreland?

  Substantial. It's all, um, what's the word?

• 31:54Payton Moreland?

  Circumstantial.

• 31:55Garrett Moreland?

  It all is circumstantial.

• 31:56Payton Moreland?

  But the testimony of Jerry Trump and Charles Erickson was all they needed to sway the jury. Five hours after the jury was sent to deliberate, they returned with a verdict, guilty of robbery and murder in the second degree.

• 32:09Garrett Moreland?

  What the, this is, this is crazy. Okay.

• 32:12Payton Moreland?

  Get this. So shortly after this.

• 32:13Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, this is sick.

• 32:15Payton Moreland?

  Twenty-one-year-old Ryan, a college student who has his whole life ahead of him, is sentenced to 40 years in prison.

• 32:23Garrett Moreland?

  Wait, how mad would you be at your friend? And I know you're mad at the justice system, but I'm going to be honest, just.

• 32:30Payton Moreland?

  It's Charles's fault.

• 32:31Garrett Moreland?

  As a human, as a person, I'd be like, Charles, what do you?

• 32:36Payton Moreland?

  But also is Charles a victim in this scenario as well? You know what I mean?

• 32:39Garrett Moreland?

  For sure. No, he is a victim in this scenario, but also like, bro.

• 32:43Payton Moreland?

  How do you make sense of that in your head?

• 32:45Garrett Moreland?

  Like, bro, I don't know. I know, I know people are probably going to disagree with me on that. I'm not saying it's all Charles's fault, but that's just like, it would never have.

• 32:53Payton Moreland?

  No. Listen loud and clear. Charles can 100% be a victim, and Ryan can also hold animosity towards Charles for getting them in this situation.

• 33:04Garrett Moreland?

  Yes.

• 33:04Payton Moreland?

  You know what I mean? Both can ring true.

• 33:06Garrett Moreland?

  It's kind of like. I think an exam, uh, I'm not gonna say it. Let's just keep going.

• 33:12Payton Moreland?

  Okay, so for the next four years, Ryan sits in prison, wondering how the F did he even end up here? Wondering if anyone would ever believe him. He reaches out to a few advocacy groups, hoping they'll take on his case. And he even asks Charles to be part of that as well. He says he wanted to help get Charles released too. He believes that Charles was manipulated and used to close a case that was growing cold.

• 33:39Garrett Moreland?

  How does Charles not see it right now?

• 33:40Payton Moreland?

  Ryan's like, hey, I'm pretty sure Charles was low hanging fruit.

• 33:44Garrett Moreland?

  There's gotta be some mental health things with Charles, because how does he not see it at all?

• 33:48Payton Moreland?

  Well, here's the thing. Charles does have a history of drug abuse. So that is also playing into it as well. And Ryan brings this up to people. They're like, he tells these advocacy groups, Charles was used, Charles was manipulated, and I in turn have also taken the fall. Which, like I said, I mean, it is pretty admirable, because he could be really, really angry with Charles. Maybe he just thinks this is the only way to get it out is to throw Charles's confession out. But once people start hearing about this case, they want to do something about it. So in 2009, a high-profile attorney named Kathleen Zellner says she's gonna take Ryan's case on pro bono.

• 34:33Payton Moreland?

  And then shockingly, weeks later, Ryan gets a letter in the mail, and it's from Charles Erickson. And it says, Ryan, have your lawyers come speak to me the next time they're down there. Thanks to Rover for sponsoring today's show. If you have a dog like ours, you know they can be quirky. Dogs can have their quirks, and so when you're trying to find someone to help you take care of them, that can be hard. But that is where Rover comes in. I love that I can list every single thing Daisy needs, and they can help me find someone who matches that. You can browse sitter profiles to find a sitter who is a good fit for your pet with verified reviews from other pet parents to give you peace of mind.

• 35:18Payton Moreland?

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• 35:46Garrett Moreland?

  That's code MYHUSBAND20 for $20 off your first booking. Valid only on eligible bookings. Offer expires January 24th, 2027. Terms apply.

• 35:57Speaker 04

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• 36:38Speaker 04

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• 36:59Payton Moreland?

  So Kathleen booked a trip right away when she hears about this. And when she gets there, Charles has a whole written statement that he's prepared to share with her. And you know what he says? That things happened differently from what he said in court. So he's recanting his testimony. He claims, I was the only person who attacked Kent that night and Ryan was just a witness. He says he didn't warn or tell Ryan what he was going to do and that Ryan was not complicit in the matter. In fact, he says Ryan even tried to stop him and he didn't listen. So he's telling Ryan's attorneys that he made up Ryan's involvement to try to save

• 37:40Payton Moreland?

  himself a little bit of jail time. Now, when Kathleen brings this back to Ryan, she sees this as great news. I mean, this is terms for a new trial. Your star witness in his case is admitting to perjury. But Ryan knows and tells his attorney, this still isn't the truth. He says, I wasn't there that night. I wasn't even a witness. I did not see Charles kill anyone. And Ryan really feels like Charles wasn't there either. But the constant changing of the stories is confusing to Ryan's new lawyer Kathleen, because she's like, why would this guy just dig himself deeper? If he would have stuck with his original statement, he could have found himself out on parole just in the next few years. But now he's admitting to lying under oath, and he's likely going to serve

• 38:25Payton Moreland?

  his entire sentence. And he's still not telling the story that Ryan's telling. Maybe he felt sorry for Ryan. Maybe he thought if he did this, he could help Ryan get released. And in a way, it does.

• 38:36Garrett Moreland?

  So confusing.

• 38:38Payton Moreland?

  In August 2010, Kathleen files Ryan's case with an appellate court. But aside from proving that Charles lied to the jury back in 2005, there's a whole other piece of the puzzle she believes needs to be reexamined. And that's that the entire motive for this crime was robbery. She said, this feels ridiculous. For starters, who kills someone over a watch and a set of keys to a car that they're going to leave behind? And if they were out for cash, Ken's wallet was sitting right there in the car, in the open vehicle. Why didn't these boys take the cash if that's what they were even killing someone for? None of it made sense to her. Which was why Kathleen hired a forensic pathologist to take another

• 39:18Payton Moreland?

  look at the autopsy. And what they find is, the blunt force injuries can't sustain to the head, were not done by a tire iron, which is Charles' whole story. No way. It left skull fractures that fit the shape of a two pronged tool, like...

• 39:38Payton Moreland?

  The other side of a hammer.

• 39:40Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 39:41Payton Moreland?

  So by 2012 Kathleen is ready to present these new testimonies and evidence to the judge for an appeal. But before she does, she adds one other statement to the pile. Because the custodian Jerry Trump, she really, she reaches out to him. He also testified it was basically him and Charles that put Ryan away. She now learns that Jerry also wants to recant his witness statement. He says it wasn't his wife who sent him the newspaper with Ryan and Charles's mugshot. It was the prosecutor on the case.

• 40:11Garrett Moreland?

  Oh wait, that's like extremely illegal.

• 40:14Payton Moreland?

  So Jerry said, the truth was what he had originally told the police that he really didn't even get a good enough look at either men in the parking lot to identify.

• 40:22Garrett Moreland?

  Just off of that, it should be acquitted.

• 40:24Payton Moreland?

  Okay, so this prosecutor, the original prosecutor, his name's Kevin Crane, okay? So according to Jerry, when Kevin Crane showed him their pictures, he told Jerry, who remember was in jail on a separate offense at the time, that it would be very helpful if Jerry could remember that these were the boys that he saw in the parking lot that night. Jerry said, I just wanted to do what he thought was the right thing and maybe get out of jail earlier. So he sided with the prosecutor.

• 40:53Garrett Moreland?

  Holy crap, that pisses me off.

• 40:56Payton Moreland?

  But Jerry now tells Ryan's new lawyer, ever since the trial, it's been eating away at him because he's like, I testified that these were the guys and I have no idea that these were the guys. However, this wasn't the only time Kevin Crane's name came up in Kathleen, the new lawyer's research. Turns out, Charles had a similar experience with the prosecutor. In a pre-hearing before the trial, Charles told Kevin Crane, hey, I know like I've already confessed and stuff, but again, I was so intoxicated on the night that I really don't even remember if we did this murder or not. So basically, he goes back to his original story of like, I just saw the mugshot and now I believe we did it because of what the cops have told me. But Kevin pressures him into implicating Ryan to save himself.

• 41:41Payton Moreland?

  So it's the prosecutor's idea to Charles to throw Ryan under the bus. Even Shawna Ornt, the other janitor. Who spoke to one of the assailants that night had an issue with Kevin Crane. She told him flat out, no, it wasn't Ryan or Charles that I spoke to that night. So that's why she doesn't testify at trial. And while Kevin tried to pressure her to change her story, even becoming threatening at one point. Shawna refused to give in. And obviously she doesn't testify because her answer doesn't match the narrative they were trying to play out. So Kathleen's now putting out this, this um option that hey, maybe those boys that were by the car that night that said, hey, someone's hurt, maybe they weren't even involved in the murder. Which is why Kathleen is certain, I'm pretty sure the killer is still out there and it's not Ryan or Charles.

• 42:27Payton Moreland?

  Cause the crime just seems oddly personal. She doesn't believe it was a robbery. She thinks someone had it out for Kent. And it seemed like this was more than enough to convince the appellate court that Ryan Ferguson was innocent. Because on November 12th, 2013, Ryan was released after being in prison for close to a decade.

• 42:44Garrett Moreland?

  I feel like Kevin, I feel like Kevin should have to serve all the time that Ryan served.

• 42:49Payton Moreland?

  The prosecutor.

• 42:51Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 42:52Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 42:52Garrett Moreland?

  I feel like, look, if it was your, if it was your fault that they're in prison and they didn't do it. Sorry, bud, you're going in prison for 12 years. Next time, don't do that.

• 43:03Payton Moreland?

  I mean, there is of course no way that Ryan was going to get the last 10 years of his life back, which is why he filed and eventually won an $11 million civil rights case.

• 43:10Garrett Moreland?

  Decent, nice.

• 43:11Payton Moreland?

  Not enough to serve 10 years in prison.

• 43:13Garrett Moreland?

  No, no, no.

• 43:15Payton Moreland?

  And when asked if Ryan had come up with any theories on who killed Kent, they're like, okay, well, you've obviously know this case inside and out as you've been trying to get out of prison. He offered up one name that might have seemed to be overlooked on the suspect list. The last person to see Kent that night, Kent's colleague and mentee, Mike Boyd.

• 43:38Garrett Moreland?

  Kevin's, like the prosecutor.

• 43:40Payton Moreland?

  Oh no, Kent.

• 43:41Garrett Moreland?

  Sorry, Kent. Okay. Misunderstood. Got it.

• 43:44Payton Moreland?

  So if you remember. Kent talked to him. They both left work that morning. Kent talked to him. He was the last person to see him and left. Okay. Mike was a name that came up a lot during Ryan's appeals process. To Kathleen and the rest of Ryan's legal team, he seemed to fit the bill a lot more than Ryan or Charles ever had. Plus Kathleen argued he had never been fully investigated or eliminated off the police's suspect list. No one checked his car. No one asked for the clothes he was wearing that night. I don't think they ever even collected DNA samples from Mike to run against what they had found at the crime scene. But here's what Kathleen found during her own investigation. The forensic pathologist she hired said the entire struggle

• 44:24Payton Moreland?

  between Kent and his attacker probably lasted six to eight minutes. Now Mike claimed to say goodbye to Kent in the parking lot at 2:20 a.m. That is six minutes before the custodial janitors called 911. Six minutes. Even more worrisome, Mike's story about the night of the murder changed a lot, down to the color of the car he was driving that night. Some said blue, some said red. And according to Shawna Wirth, Mike may have even had a motive because Shawna said Mike often spoke to her about the tension between him and Kent. Apparently Kent was criticizing Mike's work and he felt disrespected by Kent even though he idolized him. This wasn't just once or twice. Shawna said Mike spoke to her about it daily. But

• 45:09Payton Moreland?

  from other people who worked with Kent, it didn't seem like he was picking on Mike. He was just his boss. He expected the most from his employees. So it makes sense. He would be hard on those he's mentoring. But maybe for someone with a fragile ego, Kent's criticisms were too far. However, I do have to say, there were other people who worked with Kent and Mike that said they truly didn't think Mike was the guilty party. One colleague of theirs pointed out that Mike, who didn't have a college degree, was extremely grateful to Kent for the opportunity to work there. Others said they only ever saw Kent being supportive of Mike and that Mike would never do anything to hurt Kent. For the record, there have never been any charges pressed against Mike Boyd. And that's how it remains

• 45:52Payton Moreland?

  today. Okay, so even though his name is brought up, it's all alleged.

• 45:56Garrett Moreland?

  They're probably too scared to even try anything else because they got it wrong the first time?

• 46:01Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 46:02Garrett Moreland?

  Not saying that.

• 46:03Payton Moreland?

  Just test the DNA.

• 46:04Garrett Moreland?

  He didn't.

• 46:06Garrett Moreland?

  Guess that's true too. I don't know. Maybe it's maybe not enough. I don't know.

• 46:09Payton Moreland?

  Here's the thing, though, if you was talking to him that night, he could easily explain away his fingerprints.

• 46:13Garrett Moreland?

  Like, yeah, of course, my fingerprints are on there. I was talking to him. True.

• 46:16Payton Moreland?

  So as for Charles Erickson, though, once Ryan was released from prison, Charles began working on his own appeals. He filed in December of 2018, but was denied because he confessed to the crime. In June 2020, however, he filed for a rehearing, and this time it was granted. And after 18 years in prison, Charles was finally released in January of 2023.

• 46:34Garrett Moreland?

  18 years.

• 46:36Payton Moreland?

  Two boys, two 20-year-olds.

• 46:39Garrett Moreland?

  Years.

• 46:40Payton Moreland?

  Just their life completely changed because Charles recognized himself in that sketch.

• 46:45Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, I feel bad for him, though, because you know he's thinking the same thing now if I just didn't say anything. And that's somewhere you just mentally would be really hard to be.

• 46:55Payton Moreland?

  A victim of the system right there.

• 46:57Garrett Moreland?

  That's really hard.

• 46:59Payton Moreland?

  Aside from the mystery of who killed Kent, there was still one giant question mark. Why on earth would you confess to a murder that you did not commit?

• 47:07Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 47:08Payton Moreland?

  Well, if you ask Charles Erickson today, he says there's a few reasons. Drugs being a big part of it. Apparently, Charles had been battling with addiction since the age of 14, and blackout states were familiar to him. And he often would wake up the next day not knowing what happened the night before, and it kind of messed with his head a little bit. But at the time of Kent's death, Charles said, I was honestly in the worst shape of my entire life. Shortly after that Halloween night, Charles was sent away for psychological testing, where a doctor learned he was suffering from major gaps in his memory. So that compounded with guilt of, you know, his addiction and the pain of it.

• 47:48Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 47:49Payton Moreland?

  And then seeing that and recognizing him, Charles on kind of saw the confession as a way to right his wrongs, in a way.

• 47:57Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 47:58Payton Moreland?

  It didn't seem like the detectives on the case did much to help Charles. He believed that they fed him information, obviously, to plug the holes for him, which leads to brainwashing and coerced confessions, something Charles believes now that he was a victim of. Unfortunately, it did nothing in the way of providing answers for Kent's family. And to this day, his case is still open, and the investigation continues. But Ryan says there's one big takeaway from all of this. He says, quote, To get charged with a crime you didn't commit is incredibly easy. And to get out of prison for it takes an army. Yeah. Which is something that's definitely going to cost me and others sleep at night. And that is the devastating case of Kent Heidholt, whose murder is still unsolved.

• 48:43Payton Moreland?

  And Ryan and Charles, who somehow got wrapped up in it and had nothing to do with it.

• 48:50Garrett Moreland?

  It's sad because, yeah, we have a bunch of victims, right? We have Ryan and Charles, and then we also have Kent, who was actually killed. And then you have Ryan and Charles, who lost years and years of their lives.

• 49:00Payton Moreland?

  And then Kent's family, who went through, okay, they boys confessed. Oh, wait, you're telling me they didn't do it? Okay, the case is back open. Okay, maybe.

• 49:06Garrett Moreland?

  And Kent's dead. Like, he can't come back.

• 49:09Payton Moreland?

  They're just getting put through the wringer.

• 49:10Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, like, this case is horrible.

• 49:12Payton Moreland?

  And we still just have no idea.

• 49:15Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, extremely devastating.

• 49:18Payton Moreland?

  All right, you guys, that is our episode, and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.

• 49:23Garrett Moreland?

  And I hate it.

• 49:23Payton Moreland?

  Goodbye.

• 49:33Speaker 05

  Great meeting. Who took notes? Anyone?

• 49:38Speaker 06

  With Monday Note Taker, nobody has to take notes again. It joins your call, transcribes it, and turns the whole conversation into a clear plan. Action items, owners, deadlines, all right there on your monday.com board, ready for the team. So the meeting ends, and the plan already exists. Meetings aren't just talk anymore. Go to monday.com, the AI workspace platform.