249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart

In this episode, Garrett and Payton dive into the infamous case of Kristin Smart, and how a podcast raised a cold case from the grave. Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7?si=f5224c9fd99542a7 Case sources CBSNews.com - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kristin-smart-verdict-paul-flores-guilty-48-hours/ NYTimes.com - https://www.nytimes.com/article/kristin-smart-case-timeline.html KSBY.com - https://www.ksby.com/news/kristin-smart-case/witness-breaks-down-on-stand-during-kristin-smart-murder-trial SantaMariaTimes.com - https://santamariatimes.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/unsealed-court-documents-reveal-search-warrant-details-in-kristin-smart-murder-case/article_60ae0c4c-5c8b-52a9-962e-7c25b3ef4160.html LATimes.com - https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-a-cold-case-a-haunting-mystery-20160907-snap-story.html People.com - https://people.com/crime/kristin-smart-case-verdict/ FoxNews.com - https://www.foxnews.com/us/paul-flores-sentencing-kristin-smart-killing-delayed-several-months NPR.org - https://www.npr.org/2023/03/10/1162789637/kristin-smart-murder-paul-flores-sentencing Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

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• 1:00Payton Moreland?

  You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Payton Moreland.

• 1:07Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm Garrett Moreland.

• 1:09Payton Moreland?

  And he's the husband.

• 1:10Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm the husband.

• 1:11Payton Moreland?

  If you are watching on YouTube and you were like, geez, you guys look like death.

• 1:17Garrett Moreland?

  We do. Not me. I mean, no, I meant to say not Peyton. Peyton looks beautiful. I look like crap. I meant to say not you. See, I'm not doing okay. I'm not feeling the best right now. I'm gonna be honest. I'm feeling a little loopy. Loopy's not the right word. My head hurts. I don't know, guys. So we're, it's the day after Christmas. We're sitting here recording because we love all you guys and we're also about ready to leave Daisy for a few days. So we're pretty sad about that.

• 1:48Payton Moreland?

  I'll update you on the sitch for Garrett's 10 seconds. So here's what's going on. My knee has been hurting for a while. Okay. And then the last couple of days I've been noticing that it's just been hurting a little bit more than usual. And then two nights ago, it was hurting really bad at night to the point where my foot started to go numb, which of course made me panic a little. And then the next day I woke up, I could barely walk on it. And by last night, It was so swollen, but I didn't do anything to it. So I had no idea what was going on. Okay. So I wake up at three. Well, Daisy wakes Garrett up at three to go potty.

• 2:23Garrett Moreland?

  Like she does every single night. Thank you very much.

• 2:26Payton Moreland?

  And I was already awake. And then when Garrett came back in, I said, Garrett, I was near tears because my leg, my entire leg was aching so bad. The, the pain in my knee had spread all the way to my shin, my calf, the top of my foot. I had been sleeping with elevated. I had taken ibuprofen. I was worried it was a blood clot because, you know, similar things. So Garrett's like, I think we need to take you to the ER. So at three o'clock this morning, last night, we go to the ER. We get it checked. I get scans done and everything. Um, turns out I sprained a ligament in my inner knee. And also there's a fissure in my meniscus. Do not ask me how it happened.

• 3:12Payton Moreland?

  Because it's embarrassing because we did figure out the cause of how it happened.

• 3:15Garrett Moreland?

  Tell them how it happened, babe. It starts with an S and ends with an X.

• 3:19Payton Moreland?

  Sex?

• 3:20Garrett Moreland?

  Sex.

• 3:21Payton Moreland?

  No, I did not tear my meniscus. I did not fissure my meniscus during sex.

• 3:25Garrett Moreland?

  You don't know that? It could have been possible.

• 3:27Payton Moreland?

  No, what happened was the whole reason this pain started happening is I don't know if you watch on YouTube, but every single time I record, every single time I stream, every single time I color, every single time I ride Passenger Princess, I sit crisscross applesauce. Okay. I don't know what it is. There's something very comforting to me to have my legs up. Well, I've been doing it an abnormal amount. I'm talking every time I'm sitting, my legs are going in a crisscross. And they think over time, I literally sprained my ligament and fissured my meniscus by sitting crisscross applesauce for prolonged periods of time. So.

• 4:01Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, basically Peyton hurt herself sitting crisscross applesauce.

• 4:05Payton Moreland?

  So I can't even walk right now. And, um, yeah, we were up at three. So, and we're leaving tonight and it's a whole thing.

• 4:13Garrett Moreland?

  Taking a red eye tonight. So we're, we're hanging in there. Yeah.

• 4:17Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, that's our.

• 4:19Garrett Moreland?

  That's, that can be the 10 seconds today. Thanks for supporting us. Thank you for being here. Hope you guys had a great holiday. Bonus episodes. And ad free content as always, if you want it, feel free and check it out. I think we need to jump into today's episode because.

• 4:34Payton Moreland?

  Wait, people are going to be really mad that I didn't say what my surprise was from you.

• 4:37Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, well, tell me we're going to post on socials, maybe.

• 4:40Payton Moreland?

  Okay, we'll post on, I'll just tell you what it is and then I'll post a picture on socials. Garrett custom made me a new wedding ring.

• 4:47Garrett Moreland?

  I did. I've been working on it for a few months with a company called Olive Ave.

• 4:52Payton Moreland?

  They've done all our rings. They're amazing. We love them so, so much.

• 4:56Garrett Moreland?

  Really wanted to make Peyton a ring that was her, a new wedding ring. Really want to do something special. So I worked with them. They're amazing. They did a great job. We really figured out something that's Peyton. So I'm excited for you guys to see it.

• 5:10Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, go check my socials for that.

• 5:12Garrett Moreland?

  I actually, this isn't because this isn't sponsored at all. We just love them, but I actually had reached out to a few different companies. They don't even know this. So maybe they're listening to this and they're like, what the? But I reached out to a few different companies and after I talked to Olive Ave and a couple others, all that was, they were the choice to go with and they absolutely killed it.

• 5:37Payton Moreland?

  The reason you reached out is they don't typically do rings like the one Garrett made, but they were totally up for the challenge and they nailed it.

• 5:43Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I mean, no, honestly, the ring that I custom made Peyton, I know and I don't ever, I never, I've never seen another company do a ring like that.

• 5:52Payton Moreland?

  I haven't either.

• 5:53Garrett Moreland?

  I know that sounds so.

• 5:55Payton Moreland?

  It's because it's just so.

• 5:56Garrett Moreland?

  You have to see it. Once you see it, it's very personal. Yeah. Anyways, I love it. I was really excited to do it for Peyton and she loves it and it's been really fun.

• 6:05Payton Moreland?

  Yes. So thank you, Garrett. I love the ring so, so much. It was the best gift I had ever been given. It totally caught me by surprise and I love it. So thank you.

• 6:15Garrett Moreland?

  You're welcome, baby.

• 6:16Payton Moreland?

  Our sources for this episode are CBSnews.com, NewYorkTimes.com, KSBY.com, SantaMariaTimes.com, LATimes.com, People.com, FoxNews.com and NPR.org. Okay, before we get into this episode, I did want to let you guys know that this case has been covered a lot. There's a lot of coverage on this case. In fact, there is a podcast called Your Own Backyard that covers this case extensively. But it's also a story that Garrett needs to hear and proves why the true crime genre can sometimes be extremely helpful.

• 6:50Garrett Moreland?

  I do want to say before we get into this, when we tend to cover high profile cases like this. We will not have all the information. We're squeezing this into about a 45 minute podcast. There will be a lot left out. It won't be an insane detailed podcast. So we're going to do just the best summarized version possible. So know that ahead of time. So you don't get upset with us. That's just what this podcast is. And yeah.

• 7:13Payton Moreland?

  If you're wanting every nitty gritty detail, the deepest dive, go listen to your own backyard. So every once in a while, a case comes along that reminds me why we do what we do because true crime shouldn't just be entertainment. It also serves a purpose, whether that's spreading awareness to a cause, highlighting a community that doesn't get as much coverage, or just getting a missing person's face and name out there. We got into this business to offer support to the victims and their families. And to me, that is what comes first. And I know for a lot of you listeners, that comes first as well. And we keep doing what we do because honestly, you never know who will hear an episode and have the missing piece of the puzzle, which was exactly

• 7:55Payton Moreland?

  what happened to another podcaster named Chris Lambert, when he covered a decades old case about a young woman named Kristin Smart. Now in 1996, Kristen went missing from her college campus in San Luis Obispo, California. But when there wasn't enough evidence against the primary suspect, the suspect that they knew from the very first day of the crime, the investigation slowed. That was until Chris Lambert decided to make a podcast on this case and give it a new life. He encouraged witnesses to come out of the woodwork, to speak up about their connection to the case. And ultimately, he helped get justice for Kristen

• 8:40Payton Moreland?

  Smart's family nearly three decades later.

• 8:44Garrett Moreland?

  That's so cool.

• 8:45Payton Moreland?

  So in the mid 90s in California's San Joaquin Valley, just a little northwest of San Francisco, we have a teenage Kristin Smart, who is thriving. She's crushing all of her high school classes, As and Bs across the board. She's a proficient athlete who loves swimming and skiing. She's also done a good amount Of traveling for a kid her age in the nineties, we're talking about trips to London, Venezuela. She even spent one summer as a camp counselor in Hawaii. Kristen was super ambitious and always looking for her next adventure, which is why when it came time to choose a college, Kristen begged her parents to let her go to a school in the Virgin Islands.

• 9:28Payton Moreland?

  But both of Kristen's parents pushed back. They didn't think that that was a safe place to go to school. They said, hey, we would feel a lot better if you just go to college nearby, somewhere they could get to her with a quick car drive. The campus they preferred was one with a really low crime rate. Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo. So Kristen didn't love the idea, but if her parents were paying, how could she argue? At least she'd be out there on her own, starting a new chapter of her life. A day that finally came when she moved into the campus dorms in the fall of 1995. Now, like most college students, Kristen saw Cal Poly as a way to sort of reinvent herself.

• 10:13Payton Moreland?

  When she wasn't studying for her architecture degree, the 18-year-old Kristen was dying her hair from blonde to brunette, or trying out new nicknames for herself like Roxy or Trixie. But Kristen also struggled to fit in a bit, probably because she stood out in a crowd. Kristen was tall for a girl. She was six foot one, to be exact. And while Kristen worked hard to navigate the social scene at Cal Poly, she also struggled with the difficulty of her classes. Kristen called her parents a lot that freshman year to say she had her doubts about whether Cal Poly was the right place for her. She was falling behind in some of her classes, which was unlike her,

• 10:56Payton Moreland?

  but she found them to be too challenging and she was getting a bit homesick. Now, I'm not saying this to say Kristen didn't have any friends. I think it's just that normal freshman year that a lot of us go through when you leave your hometown.

• 11:08Garrett Moreland?

  For sure.

• 11:08Payton Moreland?

  And go somewhere new.

• 11:09Garrett Moreland?

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:10Payton Moreland?

  So by the spring of 1996, after her freshman year, 19-year-old Kristen was begging her parents to let her drop out altogether. And around April, Kristen's mother wrote her a long letter encouraging her to push through. It was almost summer break. She told her, hey, things are going to get better. She said, quote, "World of opportunities are at your fingertips." She should keep her focus on her classwork and learn from her mistakes. Essentially, just get back on the horse. So when Memorial Day weekend rolled around and a lot of the students left campus for the holiday, Kristen decided to stay back. She was gonna stay in the dorms over holiday. She figured she could get some studying done for her finals.

• 11:53Payton Moreland?

  Actually, she called her mom that day around 5:30 PM to say she had some good news. She was able to make up a biology test from earlier in the semester. And luckily, she wasn't there that weekend alone. Her friend and neighbor from down the hall, Margarita Campos, stayed back too. And while school was definitely on the brain, Kristen also wanted to blow off some steam that weekend, like any college student. So she encouraged her friend Margarita to go out with her that Friday night. So it's May 24th, 1996. And when they got to that first party on campus, Margarita was a bit disappointed, to say the least. Just a few guys were hanging out, playing video games on the couch. And she thought, I stopped studying for this. This is the party.

• 12:39Payton Moreland?

  So Kristen and Margarita left, but Kristen wasn't ready to head back to her room and call it a night. So she begged Margarita to walk with her down to frat row to see if, hey, let's just go see if any of the frats are throwing parties. But Margarita was over it. She told Kristen, no, I'm heading back. Kristen told her, you can't leave. She had forgotten her purse, her ID and her keys. And if Margarita went back before she did, she wouldn't be able to get back into the building. So Margarita compromised. She gave Kristen her set of keys and headed back to the dorms while Kristen continued to search for a party solo. So Margarita said when she left Kristen, it was around 10:30 PM that night,

• 13:23Payton Moreland?

  and they were both stone cold sober. And if you're confused, like, well, now Margarita doesn't have keys. I'm assuming they thought that Margarita would be able to get someone to let her in at 10:30, rather than in the early morning hours when Kristen came home.

• 13:36Garrett Moreland?

  That makes sense.

• 13:38Payton Moreland?

  So they're sober, but Kristen is still looking to have a good time. Eventually, she found herself at a keg party with about 60 or so other college students.

• 13:47Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 13:47Payton Moreland?

  And the six foot tall Kristen was easily spotted amongst the crowd.

• 13:51Garrett Moreland?

  She's six feet tall?

• 13:52Payton Moreland?

  Six foot one.

• 13:53Garrett Moreland?

  Dang.

• 13:53Payton Moreland?

  But reports of what Kristen was doing there were sort of murky. Some said they saw Kristen that night flirting with a bunch of boys at the party, maybe even kissing one of the basketball players, maybe even pulling one into the bathroom. And others said they saw her chugging tequila. Others said, no, she didn't have a drink in her hand that night at all.

• 14:16Garrett Moreland?

  Isn't that so interesting?

• 14:18Payton Moreland?

  Eyewitness statements.

• 14:19Garrett Moreland?

  So many different eyewitness statements. I it sucks.

• 14:23Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 14:23Garrett Moreland?

  Cause it makes everything very confusing.

• 14:26Payton Moreland?

  But there was one thing that several party goers agreed on. And it was that at one point in the night, there was a loud crash in the hallway at this party. And when everyone gathered around, Kristin Smart was on the floor. And a guy named Paul Flores was on top of her.

• 14:49Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 14:50Payton Moreland?

  So here's the deal with Paul Flores. He's pretty quiet. Okay? He doesn't talk to too many people at the party. He mostly plays pool and hangs out by himself. But for a quiet guy like Paul, he sure does stir up a lot of gossip among his peers. For starters, Cal Poly was a bit out of Paul's depth. He never really had good grades or SAT scores in high school. But people said he got in because the university gave a little grace to applicants who were local to the area. So he wasn't doing well academically at Cal Poly. But honestly, the kid's grades were the least of his problems at college.

• 15:32Payton Moreland?

  The real issue was Paul had been doing some pretty creepy things to female students on campus and had gotten a pretty bad reputation because of it.

• 15:42Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 15:43Payton Moreland?

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• 16:28Payton Moreland?

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• 17:13Speaker 04

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• 17:39Payton Moreland?

  One night, he drunkenly climbed a trellis up to one girl's balcony outside her apartment. And when she demanded him to leave, he refused and then she called the police. Apparently this wasn't an isolated incident. Paul was known to inappropriately hit on other female students. In fact, that was kind of sort of the only thing people on campus knew about Paul Flores. He literally would show up to all the parties and then just act creepy. He had no friends. The girls were just, he, he literally earned nicknames around campus as Chester the molester and scary Paul.

• 18:13Garrett Moreland?

  I don't get why there's people like that and. I don't know.

• 18:18Payton Moreland?

  He's there age.

• 18:20Garrett Moreland?

  It's wild.

• 18:21Payton Moreland?

  And people literally referred to him as scary Paul. Oh, scary Paul's here.

• 18:25Garrett Moreland?

  Again, I said this, I said, I have said this before. There's so many weird dudes out there. I'm creepy dudes, man.

• 18:32Payton Moreland?

  So basically when the crash happens and people see Paul Flores on top of Kristen, they're like, dude, get off. Like it's just another Paul thing. No one's really that surprised. But other than that strange incident with Kristen, Paul seemed fairly subdued that night at the party, according to witnesses. Kristen, on the other hand, had drawn a little more attention. I guess at around 2am that night, a senior student named Tim Davis, who was helping throw the party, was clearing people out. And that's when he spotted Kristen, who had actually introduced herself as Roxy that night. And she was passed out on their neighbor's lawn. So he's like getting everyone out.

• 19:15Payton Moreland?

  It's 2am, time to go. And then he notices Kristen, AKA Roxy, passed out. And here's what alarming. If Kristen wasn't drinking, like a lot of the party goers reported, then how is she passed out?

• 19:29Garrett Moreland?

  True.

• 19:30Payton Moreland?

  Only thing people can think is she had been slipped something.

• 19:33Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, okay.

• 19:34Payton Moreland?

  Because when Tim woke her up, he could tell that she was really out of it. Tim asked her where she lived and Kristen told him which dormitory. And since it was only a 10 minute walk from the party, Tim was like, okay, let me just walk you to your dorms. And that's when another girl who was also leaving the party, Cheryl Anderson, asked if she could walk with them. She's like, hey, I'm alone as well. Can I walk with you guys? She was headed to the dormitory right across from Kristen's. So the three of them started strolling when out of nowhere, another guy came up and said, hey, hey, hey, I'm also going that way. Let me take over. You just go back in the house. Who do you think this is?

• 20:16Garrett Moreland?

  Paul.

• 20:17Payton Moreland?

  Paul Flores. Now, Tim, a senior, knew Paul was weird, but clearly didn't know a lot about Paul's reputation because he thinks nothing of letting Paul escort these two girls back. Now, during this walk back, Cheryl realizes that Kristen is a lot more out of it than she is. So when Kristen keeps needing to stop and Paul sort of supports her, she finds it strange that during this, like as Kristen's taking more time, Paul says, "Oh, oh, Cheryl, just go on. Just go on without us. I can walk her home. You just go ahead." And eventually Cheryl gets to the door of her building and she says goodnight to Kristen and Paul.

• 21:01Payton Moreland?

  And at this point, she can see that Kristen is only 40 yards away from the front door of her building. So she's thinking, okay, I got her home safe. Like she's only 40 yards away from her entry. And she says to Paul, "Will you make sure she gets up to her room?" And he's like, "Yeah, yeah, I will." But then Paul does something really strange, totally on brand for him, okay? He's, he's supporting this very out of it Kristen. And he says, "Hey, Cheryl, do you want to give me a kiss before you go to your dorm?"

• 21:33Garrett Moreland?

  What?

• 21:34Payton Moreland?

  And she's like,

• 21:34Garrett Moreland?

  No.

• 21:35Payton Moreland?

  Paul. And he's like, "Okay, how about just a hug?" And she's like, "No." And then she watches as Paul walks back over to Kristen and leads her toward her dormitory. Now, the following morning is Saturday, May 25th, and Margarita is wondering why Kristen, her friend, hasn't returned her set of keys to her, the ones that she gave her the night before. So she heads down the hall to Kristen's room and she knocks, only there's no answer. And it's not until Kristen's roommate comes back later that Margarita learns, you know, through the grapevine, that Kristen's side of the room is untouched. It doesn't look like she ever made it back to her bed that night.

• 22:16Payton Moreland?

  Her purse, her ID, her keys, all the things she left there are still in the same spot.

• 22:21Garrett Moreland?

  But... Okay, let me make sure I'm getting this right, but the other girl saw them going back.

• 22:27Payton Moreland?

  To the door, towards the door.

• 22:30Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, to towards where she like her door.

• 22:33Payton Moreland?

  Yes, Kristen's room. Yes.

• 22:35Garrett Moreland?

  Got it.

• 22:36Payton Moreland?

  So they figure, okay, maybe Kristen just met someone at the party. Maybe she's out having a day with someone. Heck, maybe she decided to go home for the weekend, right? Like, maybe she'll be back. But when forty eight hours pass and there's still no sign of Kristen, her friends decide to call campus police. But it's not until Monday, May twenty seventh, that the campus police then call Kristen's family, asking if she went home to see them for the holiday.

• 23:03Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 23:04Payton Moreland?

  Now, at this point, when, when the police call and it's been this long since her daughter is seen, Kristen's mom is worried. It wasn't like Kristen to go a few days without calling them, but it also wasn't unheard of. When she gets this phone call, she is like, this is alarming. And so right after this call, Kristen's parents go to the local police to file a missing person report because by this point Kristen has been missing for nearly seventy two hours. Yet, the police tell her family, it's still too early to file a report. Which, as I will say, for the eight hundredth time is not true. There's no waiting period on a missing person report in this country. But they also say, hey, this is Cal Poly's police's jurisdiction anyways.

• 23:49Payton Moreland?

  So you would need to file there if you're going to, and they're probably already on it. However, it is not until Tuesday that Cal Poly actually starts taking this investigation seriously. Partly because of the holiday, they're thinking, well, she probably just went somewhere. But this is also problematic because a lot can be done in four days to cover up a crime. Now, look, I get that these campus police departments probably don't deal with cases like this very often. It's sort of uncharted territory for them. But it's completely understandable for the smart family to be frustrated with how this whole thing has been handled. In fact, they say that they treated Kristen's case as if it were like another stolen bicycle on campus.

• 24:33Payton Moreland?

  Plus, listen to what the campus police wrote in their initial report about Kristen's disappearance. Quote.

• 24:41Payton Moreland?

  Smart does not have any close friends at Cal Poly. Smart appeared to be under the influence of alcohol on Friday night. Smart was talking with and socializing with several different males at the party. Smart lives her life in her own way, not conforming to typical teenage behavior. Of course, they finish with, "These observations are in no way implying that her behavior caused her disappearance, but they provide a picture of her conduct on the night of her disappearance." They're victim blaming.

• 25:08Garrett Moreland?

  I think they're crazy. She doesn't live a typical teenage.

• 25:14Payton Moreland?

  Life?

• 25:15Garrett Moreland?

  Like, what do you, she's doing what every other teenager's doing.

• 25:17Payton Moreland?

  Every other student. They're basically slut shaming her.

• 25:21Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, that's wild.

• 25:21Payton Moreland?

  They're saying, "Hey, we're not victim blaming," but they're victim blaming.

• 25:24Garrett Moreland?

  She was seen with a bunch of guys and she was drinking, so sorry.

• 25:26Payton Moreland?

  So she's probably just somewhere.

• 25:28Garrett Moreland?

  We can't do much about that.

• 25:29Payton Moreland?

  And even worse, police do not call Paul Flores in for an interview until six days after Kristen goes missing.

• 25:39Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 25:39Payton Moreland?

  Despite the fact that in the initial investigation, when they figure out that she went to this party and they talked to people, everyone says, "Oh, she walked home with Paul Flores." He was the last person to see her before she disappeared.

• 25:52Garrett Moreland?

  Six days to do.

• 25:53Payton Moreland?

  Whatever he wanted. Even though police knew that he was the last person she was seen with. And get this, when they do talk to him, they don't check his dorm room either. That won't happen for another 10 days.

• 26:08Garrett Moreland?

  It doesn't matter at that point.

• 26:09Payton Moreland?

  Which, when I, when I tell you how his first interview went with police, you are going to be like, "Why did it take them another four days to go search this kid's room?" Okay? So the police make Paul walk through every step of what he did that night. You know, they've gone through the grapevine, realized, "Okay, she was last seen with Paul." They wait this alarming amount of days and pull him in. And they interview him a few more times that week. And his story never stays consistent from the very first time. But he does manage to maintain that the last time he saw Kristen was after she said goodnight and walked towards her dorm alone that evening. And here's what's even more problematic than the story changes. Paul shows up to that first interview, that's days after she went missing,

• 26:54Payton Moreland?

  with scratches all over his hands and a very obvious black eye.

• 26:59Garrett Moreland?

  Holy crap.

• 27:00Payton Moreland?

  And he tells the police. I don't actually know how I got this black eye and these scratches. I just woke up with it. That's what he tells police initially. Okay? And so police pull him in the next day and they're like, hey, hey, how did you get this black eye really? And the next day he says, oh, um, actually I got it playing basketball over the weekend. And then when they pull him in the third interview before they've even checked his dorm, he says, oh, actually, no, it wasn't from basketball. You're right. I, I got it hitting my head, working on my truck.

• 27:32Garrett Moreland?

  This is wild. I'm already, you know, I used to get like really, I still get frustrated about this. But doing these cases, I just assume that someone along the way, not always, Kim, not always.

• 27:46Garrett Moreland?

  But someone in cases like these, someone drops the ball. It's like, all right, well, here we go again. Yeah.

• 27:54Payton Moreland?

  I mean, I told you from the very get go. There was one suspect this entire investigation and it's very obvious.

• 28:02Garrett Moreland?

  It's crazy because I know we're going to get to it, but I know that entire podcast, I've never listened to it. It's going to be

• 28:08Payton Moreland?

  The reason.

• 28:09Garrett Moreland?

  The reason that Paul gets caught and it was him the whole time and

• 28:12Payton Moreland?

  Police knew it too.

• 28:13Garrett Moreland?

  Police knew it and he was right in front of their faces and yeah, it's just crazy.

• 28:18Payton Moreland?

  And when I like, when you hear the history of Paul, that he was called, called scary Paul Chester, the monster. It, it's just, I mean, his history is egregious. It is insane. So they decide to talk to Paul's roommate and they learn something else. The two of them had been joking about Kristen's disappearance after it happened. And the roommate asked Paul kiddingly, what did you do with her? You know, since you were the last person to see her, like joking, like you were the last person to see her and now she's missing. And Paul said, mm, she's home with my parents. It's a joke. So this is oddly strange and specific, something that definitely stood out enough to Paul's roommate for him to tell the police.

• 29:00Payton Moreland?

  But like I said, the police didn't do much about Paul in the way of evidence until 10 days after that first interview. That's when they finally took a team of search dogs through the dorms at Cal Poly. There are zero hits as they are walking these dogs through the dorm, through Kristen's dorm. Until they reach Paul's bedroom. In fact, the dogs go straight to Paul Flores's bed.

• 29:24Garrett Moreland?

  Hmm. Hit, basically.

• 29:26Payton Moreland?

  They get a hit. Okay. So at this point, Paul refuses to take a polygraph, but he did have another 90 minute interview with police where he acted incredibly weird. He was tucking himself up into a little ball on the chair. He was pulling his arms into his shirt. And then he looked the cops dead in the eyes and said, "If you're so smart, then you tell me where the body is." Okay, at this point, no one even is saying Kristen's dead. She's been missing.

• 29:56Garrett Moreland?

  You're telling me he said all of this and he was never arrested?

• 29:59Payton Moreland?

  Nope. So after that interview, Paul's parents hire him a lawyer, which was definitely necessary because they have their prime suspect. Keep in mind, for the first month of the investigation, Cal Poly Police are also tracking this case solo. It wasn't until after the first month that they finally handed the case over to the San Luis Obispo County Sheriff's Department. And they come in and are like, "Hey, Paul's our guy." Primarily after hearing about the joke he made to his roommate, the one where he said Kristen was at home with his parents.

• 30:29Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 30:29Payton Moreland?

  But it still took them about two months to finally get to the Flores's home 17 miles away. And they don't bring cadaver dogs with them. They don't bring a forensic team or even search Paul or his dad, Ruben's car, which is a huge mistake considering right after this, one of their trucks was traded in and the other was reported stolen.

• 30:51Garrett Moreland?

  Holy crap.

• 30:52Payton Moreland?

  Right after the family's house is searched, Paul Flores's family's house is searched, one of their trucks gets traded in and the other gets stolen.

• 31:02Garrett Moreland?

  So embarrassing. Seriously, that's embarrassing.

• 31:06Payton Moreland?

  So because they didn't really come with much reinforcements, the sheriff's department doesn't find any notable evidence at the Flores's residence that first search. Still, they keep interviewing people and about five months after Kristen's disappearance, around the fall of 1996, Paul was actually brought in front of a grand jury. So they're deciding to try to indict him.

• 31:26Garrett Moreland?

  Yep.

• 31:27Payton Moreland?

  While the proceedings were sort of kept under lock and key, I do know that there weren't any charges filed against Paul Flores at that time. So they basically flirt with the idea and decide not to do it, even though police know they have their guy. So for the next six or seven months, they keep interviewing witnesses. It's still not moving the needle, which is why in May of 1997, the sheriff made a statement to the press, one that will actually become a pretty big screw up in this case. He says they have interviewed almost 100 people. This is what he's saying to the public. And everything leads to Paul Flores. So they

• 32:10Payton Moreland?

  out him, but and I quote, "We need Paul Flores to tell us what happened to Kristin Smart." So absent something from Mr. Flores confessing, I don't see us completing this case.

• 32:25Garrett Moreland?

  He said this publicly.

• 32:27Payton Moreland?

  Which is basically handing Paul Flores a pass on a silver platter. As long as he keeps his mouth shut, he will get away with this crime. That is what the police basically just said.

• 32:38Garrett Moreland?

  Field day with that.

• 32:39Payton Moreland?

  And Paul hears them loud and clear. So when the Smarts sue Paul Flores in a wrongful death civil lawsuit, because at this point, everyone knows he did it. He already has a strategy. Say nothing. Plead the fifth. And when he's deposed by the Smarts lawyer six months later for that civil suit, he invokes his fifth amendment 27 times.

• 32:58Garrett Moreland?

  Holy crap.

• 32:59Payton Moreland?

  He's like, no, I'm not talking. But it turns out telling Paul Flores to keep his mouth shut wasn't the only ball dropped by police. Apparently, there was a giant piece of evidence that they'd received about three months after Kristen disappeared, and it was one that fell completely through the cracks.

• 33:20Payton Moreland?

  All right, guys, we are jumping into an ad and it is one of my favorites, Quince. If you've listened to the show at all, you know how much I love Quince. Quince is not just a clothing store, okay, guys. They have quality everything at this point. I actually just ordered some skincare from Quince because here's the one thing about Quince. I love that they have kind of just excluded the middlemen and so they pass those savings on to you. So you're getting really good quality luxury pieces at a more affordable price. Again, like I just said, they have so much on there. I have shoes, I have bags, I have luggage, I have scarves. I just ordered skincare.

• 34:04Payton Moreland?

  I ordered some baby onesies and baby products from them. Honestly, they have everything. It's one of my favorite places to online shop. So if you like to browse like I do, go to Quince right now. Look around, check it out. I am promising you amazing quality. Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com, get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And then, guys, when Quince asks after checkout where you heard about them, please just let them know it was murder with my husband that sent you. Please don't skip that survey. Let them know it's the

• 34:43Payton Moreland?

  best way to support the show. All right, guys, we are jumping into an ad and it is for Wayfair. For all things hosting, Wayfair delivers high-quality, customer-trusted products for your home so you can host and celebrate without the stress, which is so, so important with the holidays coming up. Wayfair helps you create a home that stands up to real life with quality products, great value and trusted reviews. Products are high-vetted by product specialists using a 10-point quality inspection and you can shop thousands of products across every style and budget, whether you're simply replacing an appliance or transforming your home from top to bottom for the holiday season. And honestly, it's not just, you know, the little cute corduroy

• 35:28Payton Moreland?

  couch I just bought. But it's also they have verified Christmas trees. They have holiday sales going on, fireside faves, uh, space-saving party pics, like anything that you're looking for, you're gonna find over on Wayfair. And when refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things homes. That's Wayfair, W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 35:58Speaker 05

  Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 36:01Payton Moreland?

  So this requires a little backstory, but when Kristen disappeared in May of 1996, Paul's parents, Susan and Ruben, were separated and living apart. And Susan and Ruben become a big part of this case. I'm just gonna spoil it for you because a lot of people believe that both of them were involved in helping cover up. They believe that Paul did something to Kristen and then called his parents and his parents helped him get away with the crime. So Susan and Ruben, his mother and father, are separated and living apart. But four months later, they thought, maybe we should give it another shot. Susan put her house up for rent and moved back in with Ruben for a bit. And that's when Susan decides to rent their home out to a young couple. And they move in that fall. Okay, this is the home that

• 36:46Payton Moreland?

  Paul Flores would have come back to. So she's now renting this home out to a young couple after Kristen's disappeared. But one day, while the mother of this young couple is washing her car in the driveway, she sees something on the ground that catches her eye. And it's an earring. It's not just a simple diamonds on a post.

• 37:08Garrett Moreland?

  No way Kristen's earring is just sitting there.

• 37:10Payton Moreland?

  It's a very specific earring. One that matches a necklace Kristin Smart was wearing on her missing persons posters.

• 37:22Garrett Moreland?

  That is so in, that's, okay.

• 37:25Payton Moreland?

  This house has still not been searched with cadaver dogs, even though Paul basically told his roommate that she was at his parents' house. Okay?

• 37:33Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 37:34Payton Moreland?

  So because this young couple knows about the connection between Susan and Ruben and the Kristin Smart disappearance, they decide to turn the earring over to the sheriff's department. Except for God knows what reason, it was never marked and filed as evidence. So this woman who's living in this house says, hey, I found this earring. I'm pretty sure it's hers because look at the missing person poster. And they never file it as evidence. And here's the frustrating thing. I know you're thinking that this house that the couple moved into was the house that police had searched.

• 38:10Garrett Moreland?

  No, they never searched it.

• 38:11Payton Moreland?

  It wasn't. This was Susan's house and the police only searched Ruben's house. So this house had never even been searched, but the earring was found in the driveway, which essentially means there were two places for Paul to hide evidence, but only one was searched. He said, it was at my parents' house, but they were separated. They only searched Ruben's and left Susan's unsearched. In fact, Susan's house wasn't searched until long after that earring was turned in in March of 1997. This was 10 months after Kristen's disappearance. But the police didn't find anything of note and it would take three more years before they returned to search her property.

• 38:50Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, at that point, why even search it?

• 38:52Payton Moreland?

  Now, over that time, Susan and Ruben did call it off and Susan was back living in the home where the earring was found. And on June 19th, 2000, there was a knock on Susan's door. And this time it was the FBI's evidence response team with a search warrant. Actually, the warrant even gave them permission to dig up the backyard. Only they didn't follow through with it for whatever reason. They don't dig it up. In 2007, they show up again, 2007, she went missing in 1996. They show up to this house again with ground penetrating radar, only they don't find anything of note then either.

• 39:26Garrett Moreland?

  Guys, it's 11 years later.

• 39:29Payton Moreland?

  So you can imagine how frustrating this entire process must be for the smart family.

• 39:33Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 39:33Payton Moreland?

  To feel like this entire family has something to do with their daughter's disappearance, probable murder. And they're so close, yet so far from finding any real sign of their daughter, because this entire family has pled the fifth. And despite the mistakes they made along the way, it seems like the sheriff's department really was committed to the case as well, especially to keep it open for more than a decade while continuing to pursue leads and searches. But on the other hand, this means Paul Flores is just out there living his life. Okay, so he leaves college, he moves to Southern California, Irvine, to be exact. He gets a job in Irvine.

• 40:16Payton Moreland?

  I'm going to mention that Garrett probably went to the restaurant Paul Flores was working at in Irvine at the time he was working.

• 40:23Garrett Moreland?

  No.

• 40:24Payton Moreland?

  I am telling you.

• 40:25Garrett Moreland?

  What year?

• 40:26Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, the like the early 2000s, 2007, like you were not gone, you were living in Irvine.

• 40:32Garrett Moreland?

  A hundred percent. I was like basically in middle school, high school.

• 40:35Payton Moreland?

  And I I should have looked it up. It's like a common chain, like a Chili's or an Outback Steakhouse. It's like a really common.

• 40:42Garrett Moreland?

  That's insane.

• 40:43Payton Moreland?

  Um.

• 40:43Garrett Moreland?

  You're telling me I've seen this guy.

• 40:45Payton Moreland?

  I promise you, you probably ate at this restaurant while he was working there. And might I add, this entire time that he is out at this restaurant, he is hitting on girls, roofing girls like he's still being scary Paul. After Kristin Smart, after he is the main like outed suspect in Kristin Smart's disappearance. He's a free man and maybe the only person in the world who knows what happened to Kristin Smart that night. However, there was one person who couldn't stand the thought of that. And it wasn't someone related to Kristen. It was actually a complete stranger, a journalist, podcaster named Chris Lambert. So this is where we enter Chris Lambert into this story. Okay? Chris grew up in the San Luis Obispo area.

• 41:30Payton Moreland?

  In fact, he was about eight years old when Kristen disappeared from college. And he remembered driving by a billboard of her missing poster every day on his way to school growing up. And then one day, when Chris reached adulthood and became a CBS News consultant, he had a thought. I wonder whatever happened to that girl on that billboard that I drove by from my hometown? Whatever happened to that girl? Why hadn't her case been solved? That billboard was still up. So Chris's intention was to get some answers. He wanted to reignite conversations around her case. This was a hometown case for him. So Chris started interviewing people about Kristen and Paul. And from that, he launched his own podcast called Your Own Backyard in September of 2019.

• 42:16Payton Moreland?

  By then, it had been 23 years since Kristen went missing.

• 42:20Garrett Moreland?

  Also, I want to point out that 2019 is before Peyton and I even started.

• 42:24Payton Moreland?

  The show.

• 42:24Garrett Moreland?

  The show. So.

• 42:27Garrett Moreland?

  That's just impressive of itself because that's still so early.

• 42:31Payton Moreland?

  So basically what Chris did is he's like, I'm gonna look into this case. He didn't even really know that much about it. He looks into it and he's like, wait, you're telling me we, we probably know where her body was at one point. We know who did it. We know who she was last seen with, and this is unsolved? And Paul Flores is free?

• 42:50Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 42:51Payton Moreland?

  So he decides to make a podcast. He's like, if I can spread the word, maybe the police will do something. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna be honest, the podcast was very successful. A lot of people started coming out of the woodwork to say, hey, we listened to your podcast. It was released episode by episode, and I have information about Paul Flores. And they wanted to share it with Chris. So this is when a lot more victims of Paul Flores, not murder victims, but sexual assault victims, roofie victims, creepy dates, creepy work stories. This is when all of these women start coming forward. For example, in February 2020, about six months after the podcast was released, and honestly, a couple of months later, Garrett and I were gonna start murder with my husband,

• 43:33Payton Moreland?

  Chris got a really fascinating tip. Apparently, just a few nights after police conducted their last search on Ruben Flores's house, a neighbor noticed something strange. Ruben and his ex-wife, Susan, along with her new partner, all stayed up throughout the night after police had just searched it, doing something underneath Ruben's deck. So the police searched their house, they leave, and then a neighbor notices all three of these adults doing something underneath Ruben's

• 44:02Garrett Moreland?

  I cannot believe that the parents are involved. What? Allegedly, I'm gonna assume. What? Evil human beings? That's, that's.

• 44:13Payton Moreland?

  There were also a lot of accounts that came from women, like I said, who had had encounters with the now 42-year-old Paul Flores. Apparently, there were a number of women who Paul had made inappropriate passes at, who he tried to kiss, who he tried to force himself upon. An ex-girlfriend of his even said he was physically and verbally abusive throughout their relationship. Now, Chris also made sure to share these tips with the police. Okay, he wasn't just making the podcast. Taking everything he was learning to the police. I mean, his goal was to find out what happened to Kristen once and for all to make sure the right person ended up behind bars. Eventually, the noise surrounding Paul Flores in this case, because of the Your Own Backyard podcast.

• 44:52Garrett Moreland?

  So big.

• 44:52Payton Moreland?

  Was so loud that police could not ignore it. So in April of 2020, because of the podcast, solely because of the, of this podcast gaining steam, police decide to raid Paul's home in San Pedro, California. And what they found pretty much put the nail in Paul's coffin. It was a trove of videos and photos on Paul Flores's computer. Okay, he's now 40 years old. He's living in his own house. Showing him engaging in sexual acts with at least 10 different unconscious women.

• 45:29Payton Moreland?

  He had roofied women and then video himself sexually assaulting them and all of this was found on his computer. But police don't move in to arrest Paul just yet. They were still going for the big ticket, which means they were trying to find evidence that he had murdered Kristin Smart. So in March of the following year, they returned to Ruben Flores's house because at this point they're pretty sure the parents are connected. The one where he and Susan were seen doing something under the deck by the neighbors. And this time they find something notable. After digging under that deck, because the podcast tells them to go do this, police collect soil samples. When they send them out for analysis,

• 46:12Payton Moreland?

  they discover that the soil underneath this deck contained fibers and biological evidence, meaning there was human blood and DNA underneath this deck. They also find a four foot deep hole under that deck that is just empty. But it's four feet deep.

• 46:30Garrett Moreland?

  That's so sad.

• 46:31Payton Moreland?

  And they find some suspicious stains inside a trailer parked on the property, but they don't find a body. And you have to understand that this was happening live as he's reporting on this podcast. Okay, he drops an episode and then the police go and dig it up and then he drops another episode and he's like, there's a four. Hole under there. Okay. And unfortunately, that biological evidence was so old that it couldn't be concretely tied to Kristin Smart, but it was enough for them to get an arrest warrant. So in April of 2021, police not only arrest now 44 year old Paul Flores for murder, they also arrest his 80 year old father, Reuben, for being an accessory after the fact, because if they believe this body was on Reuben's property, then that means he was involved.

• 47:15Garrett Moreland?

  Eight years old. Could you imagine being arrested at eight years old for something you did?

• 47:19Payton Moreland?

  When your son was in college?

• 47:20Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah. I mean, I'm glad he was.

• 47:22Payton Moreland?

  So when the trial began in July of 2022, Paul and Reuben, who both pleaded not guilty, were tried together for Kristen's disappearance and murder.

• 47:32Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 47:32Payton Moreland?

  And Chris, our podcaster, is sitting in on the trial and then making updates on the podcast. They have two separate juries, one for each of them. And while a lot of witnesses were called to the stand, there was one that blew this entire case out of the water. It was a woman named Jennifer Hudson, who had hung out with Paul often shortly after Kristen's disappearance. And her story, her testimony changed everything. Jennifer said that during the summer of 1996, she and a few friends were at a skate park with Paul when a message came on over the radio about Kristen's disappearance. And that's when Paul turned to Jennifer and said, hey, I was

• 48:15Payton Moreland?

  at a party with that girl last night. So he's hanging out with this girl at a skate park. Uh, something comes over the radio about Kristen's disappearance and he's just tells him, hey, I was at a, a party with that girl that night. And he said, I actually was there and I did it. And I put Kristen under a skate ramp at my parents' house. So through tears, Jennifer tells the jury how he had basically confessed to this murder and she had held on to this information because she was scared of Paul, but it had eaten her away for years. But when her friend told her about Chris Lambert's podcast, she thought, okay, I'm just going to finally do it. I'm going to come forward to Chris and share what Paul had told me. And as far as we know,

• 48:57Payton Moreland?

  this was the only confession he ever made to anyone regarding Kristen's murder. Between Jennifer's testimony and the stories from the other women, Paul had sexually assaulted. He didn't really stand a chance. On October 18th, 2022, Paul was found guilty of first degree murder. So. Literally, he is found guilty of her murder at trial. However, his father, Ruben Flores, was acquitted for his charges of accessory. So the two juries don't necessarily line up. The one says, yes, Paul did it. The other says, no, the father was not involved. And Susan Flores and her boyfriend were never charged either.

• 49:36Payton Moreland?

  But in March of 2023, Paul was sentenced to 25 years to life for killing Kristin Smart, which was a pretty big win for the justice system, considering to this day, Kristen's body has never been found. It was a no body case.

• 49:52Garrett Moreland?

  That's sad. I mean, it's probably gone, which is horrible, but I mean, he's found guilty.

• 49:56Payton Moreland?

  Yeah. But Paul, who maintained his innocence throughout, has still never confessed openly to what happened that night. He's never told Kristen's family what happened.

• 50:05Garrett Moreland?

  We need to bring back.

• 50:06Payton Moreland?

  Which is actually insane.

• 50:07Garrett Moreland?

  Truth serum.

• 50:09Payton Moreland?

  And because of that, a lot of questions remain. Did Paul mean to kill Kristen?

• 50:14Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 50:14Payton Moreland?

  Was there a struggle that night that led Kristen to give him that black eye? Did he roofie her too much and make her overdose? Where was Kristen's final resting place? We believe that at one point it was in Ruben's backyard.

• 50:27Garrett Moreland?

  That's so crazy.

• 50:28Payton Moreland?

  But now, obviously, because of the heat and the police threatening to come back and search, they had moved her, allegedly. And if it weren't for Chris Lambert and the renewed interest that he sparked in the case, and honestly, a lot of the evidence and testimony that he uncovered.

• 50:45Garrett Moreland?

  This would never have been solved.

• 50:46Payton Moreland?

  I don't think police ever would have done anything. And to be honest, he was referred to as the podcaster at trial, and he was brought up by the defense, by Paul Flores's defense, multiple times. So at this trial, it's the podcaster, the podcaster, because he becomes like an integral part of the resurgence of this case and the evidence that's brought up.

• 51:08Garrett Moreland?

  Props, that's, that's amazing.

• 51:10Payton Moreland?

  But like I said earlier, it's cases like these that remind me why podcasts, true crime podcasts are valuable, why these stories need coverage, especially unsolved ones. And it was nice to hear this sentiment from Kristen's mother Denise Smart, too. She said that while there certainly is a lot of evil in this world, there are a lot more good people out there willing to come together and help out in a time of need. Her family has basically said, without Chris and this podcast, we would have never got justice.

• 51:45Garrett Moreland?

  Hundred percent. I mean, and we see this, I hate bringing it up, but Gabby Petito's a good one because everyone's, everyone's going crazy and then the YouTubers came out with the footage.

• 51:53Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 51:54Garrett Moreland?

  I mean, it, it does happen and does work. Obviously you can get sometimes out of hand and I understand there can be, um, there's a lot of sensitivity around it, but.

• 52:03Payton Moreland?

  Unethical coverage.

• 52:04Garrett Moreland?

  An unethical coverage, but it is crazy to see the good that comes out of it as well.

• 52:09Payton Moreland?

  It's not just the podcasters though, it's the viewers because.

• 52:12Garrett Moreland?

  Hundred percent.

• 52:13Payton Moreland?

  I mean, Chris, his podcast was just a train for listeners who had had contact with Paul Flores to be like, wait, I need to come forward and say my interaction with him. Word of mouth. And that is the very summarized story of Kristin Smart. Again, if you want a deep dive in a very well-done podcast, I would suggest listening to Your Own Backyard. All right, you guys, that was our case for this week and we will see you next time with another one in 2025, I believe. I love it.

• 52:45Garrett Moreland?

  And I hate it.

• 52:46Payton Moreland?

  Goodbye.

• 52:55Speaker 06

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