Pod Insights Murder In America EP. 219 - TEXAS: The El Paso Walmart Shooting (Pt. 3) About this episode In the wake of the El Paso Walmart shooting, the community of El Paso tried to recover from the tragedy, but the road to true healing would be long, and eventful. Join us today as we examine the fall out of the shooting, and take you through exactly what happened right up until Patrick Crusius was finally put behind bars.
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Transcript 18,274 words · 7 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Colin Brown? Warning: The following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
0:12 Courtney Brown? Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.
0:18 Colin Brown? This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
0:23 Courtney Brown? August 3rd, 2019 was a dark day for the city of El Paso. That morning, a 21-year-old from the suburbs of Dallas drove all the way into town to commit a mass shooting. In part one of this series, we discuss the gunman's motivations. Driven by his hatred of immigrants here in America, he aimed to kill as many Hispanic people as possible. So he drove nine hours to El Paso, walked into a Walmart with a rifle, and he did just that. In part two, we talked about the shooting itself, and how within minutes, the gunman killed 23 people, injuring many more. So if you want to hear about the victims of this massacre, go back and listen to our
1:08 Courtney Brown? last episode. But this one is about everything that came after the shooting: the gunman's arrest, the trials, and the impact this shooting had on the community of El Paso and the nation as a whole. So this is the story of the El Paso Walmart shooting, part three. I'm Courtney Brown.
1:29 Colin Brown? And I'm Colin Brown.
1:30 Courtney Brown? And you're listening to Murder in America.
2:33 Courtney Brown? Three minutes is a relatively short period of time. It can go by in the blink of an eye when you're busy, distracted, or enjoying time with a friend. But there are some scenarios where three minutes feels like an eternity. When you're hiding amongst merchandise, holding your breath, as a gunman walks past you. Or when you're locked in a closet, hearing guttural screams on the other end of the door. Or when you're sitting by an injured loved one, watching them bleed out from a wound, waiting for help to arrive. On August 3rd, 2019, the piercing sound of gunfire echoed from a Walmart in El Paso, Texas for three minutes.
3:16 Courtney Brown? And that's all it took to end the lives of 23 people. And then from there, just as quickly as the gunman arrived, he left, walking out of the Walmart. As soon as the threat was gone, survivors emerged to run to safety, some even helped with the injured. Video footage shows the horrific scene at the front of the store. A man wearing blue jeans and a blue shirt is seen lying on his stomach. It appears that he's dead, but a woman quickly runs over to help him. A few feet away, there's another woman hiding behind a garbage can. Near her is a man lying on his side, bleeding from a gunshot wound.
3:59 Courtney Brown? A stranger quickly runs to his side, telling him, "Try not to move. Stay with me, okay?" Here are the first calls that dispatch made to officers in the area.
4:10 Speaker 02 Panic breaking out as the killing spree started.
4:13 Speaker 03 All tag units, the military units, please make it to the west side of Walmart, please.
4:17 Colin Brown? Outside of the Walmart was a chaotic scene. At 10:41 that morning, video shows the gunman walk out of the building. There are victims all over the parking lot, lying in a pool of blood. Many of them, who are still clinging to life, are being helped by good Samaritans. The gunman sees all of this. He's also surprised to see that the police aren't outside waiting for him. So from there, he runs back to his Honda Civic to flee. At 10:42 a.m., while backing out of his parking spot, the gunman attempts to call 911. But due to the overwhelming amount of calls already coming in, no one answers. So he pulls out of the parking lot. But he would only make it about 1,600 feet down the road before police cruisers found him.
4:59 Colin Brown? He stopped his vehicle at the intersection of Viscount Boulevard and Sunmount Drive. He then came out with his hands up, screaming, "I am the shooter!" Two officers, Hispanic officers at that, then came and arrested him. The El Paso Walmart shooter was finally in custody.
5:16 Courtney Brown? Interestingly, according to the gunman's manifesto that he uploaded to the website H-Chan before the attack, he planned to die during the shooting. In fact, he wrote, quote, "My death is likely inevitable. If I'm not killed by police, then I'll probably be gunned down by one of the invaders. Capture in this case is far worse than dying during the shooting, because I'll get the death penalty anyway. Worse is that I would live knowing that my family despises me. This is why I am not going to surrender, even if I run out of ammo," end quote. But in the end, he did just that. He surrendered.
5:59 Courtney Brown? I guess Patrick Crusius was afraid to die when it actually came down to it. But there is solace in the fact that he said it himself. Capture in this case is worse than dying. And following this capture, he will have to face the consequences of his actions.
6:17 Speaker 03 So far, the intel, we have one subject and he's in custody.
6:20 Colin Brown? While Patrick was driven to the police headquarters, first responders arrive at the Walmart, just six minutes after the shooting began. By the time they got there, good Samaritans were already helping the injured. Some had even used Walmart shopping carts to help transport them to the ambulances outside. And immediately, they began bringing the injured to nearby hospitals. There were thirteen people who still had a pulse. Some would eventually lose their lives. But sadly, most of the victims on scene were dead on arrival. While investigators started working their crime scene, they also had to make sure the threat was contained. While they did have someone in custody, there were early reports that there may have been more than one shooter. Which was scary because this was a busy area.
7:03 Colin Brown? The Walmart was actually right next door to a popular mall. Many of the people who escaped from the Walmart that morning ran to the mall for shelter. And as they waited for help to arrive, people began talking about what they saw. Some reported that there were two gunmen clad in black. Others even said that they heard shots fired inside the Dillard's at the mall. Now, that wasn't the case, but after hearing all of this information, the police went to work putting all of these businesses on lockdown as they accessed the threat. Here's a clip of the chaos going on in this area at the time.
7:34 Speaker 04 We're gonna try and make that as fast as we can. But we need you guys to remain calm and stay here, okay? Under the shade. What I'm gonna do right now is I'm gonna try and see if we can get water for everybody out here, okay? Alright, that's a start. I'll start with that, okay? But you guys gotta help me out and stay back here, okay? Alright.
7:55 Colin Brown? There was so much going on at the time, the police had to ask the public to avoid the area.
7:59 Speaker 04 Tactical teams from DEA, FBI, DPF are currently searching the area, so we need people to stay away.
8:07 Colin Brown? Now luckily, the police quickly determined that there was no other shooter. But during those first few minutes, word spread quickly around El Paso about the mass shooting. Reporters rushed to the scene and began interviewing survivors about what they witnessed. A man named Robert Geraldo said he and his mom were outside of the Walmart when the shooter aimed his gun right at them. He said, "That's where the individual tried to shoot at me, which he missed because I kinda ducked down." Robert and his mom had to hide in between two vending machines outside, which ultimately saved their lives. Another man named Kendall Long said he was there with his wife Kiana when they ran and hid in the back of the store. Here's what he told reporters. We take off running. After he sees people start running, you can hear the different fire rate. He starts...
8:49 Colin Brown? Pop, pop, pop, pop. He's going for that semi. He's trigger finger. He's going, going, going. Another man outside of the Walmart was Romario Robles. He told reporters that he had left Walmart at 10:30 that morning and that everything had been perfectly fine. He then walked to a nearby cash store across the street, and that's when the shooting started. By the time he went to walk back to his car, which was still parked in the Walmart parking lot, the police had completely taped off the area. But as the media reported on the shooting, everyone in town started calling their loved ones, making sure they were safe. For dozens of families, they never got a call back.
9:23 Courtney Brown? In last week's episode, we talked about the Anchando family. Andre and Jordan Anchando were inside the Walmart with their two-month-old son Paul. Andre's father Gilbert said that just before the shooting, he had called his son to check up on him. It was something he did on a regular basis, but when Andre failed to pick up, Gilbert thought it was unusual. Soon after, Andre's brother Tito called to let him know there was a mass shooting at Walmart, and they all had this fear deep within them. Over the next few hours, their family continued to call Andre and his wife Jordan over and over again, with no answer.
10:05 Courtney Brown? Deep down, their gut told them that they were victims, but they weren't willing to believe it until they got that confirmation. Another victim we mentioned last week was 15-year-old Javier Rodriguez, who was at the Walmart with his uncle Octavio. Around 11:00 a.m., Javier's mother got a frantic call from Octavio, telling her that Javier had been shot inside the Walmart. I'm sure there was part of her that believed he was still alive, but Octavio regretfully informed her that he wasn't. He saw Javier's injuries. He sat with him for several minutes, waiting for the police to arrive, and he knew there was no coming back.
10:50 Courtney Brown? Another victim was Angie in Glisbee. Her son Will said that he was sleeping when his sister came pounding on his bedroom door. She told him that there was a shooting in town and that their mom wasn't home. But even more heartbreaking was that, after calling her phone over and over, she wasn't answering. There were dozens of stories exactly like this one, occurring all at once, all over town. The city of El Paso was in a panic. And we've talked a lot about the horrific wait that comes after a mass shooting. People all over town who can't get a hold of their loved one, often rush to the scene of the crime, trying to get answers. Upon arriving, they see the area blocked off.
11:35 Courtney Brown? They see the flashing red and blue lights, the crime scene tape, the investigators walking in and out. Some of these families are so desperate for answers, they show the police officers pictures of their missing loved one. "Did you see this person inside?", they ask through tears. But the police can't give them answers. For some of these families, they tracked their loved one's location, showing that they were still inside the Walmart. Others rushed over to see their loved one's car still in the parking lot. Little hints that confirm their greatest fears. On this morning, there were so many worried family members waiting outside the Walmart,
12:17 Courtney Brown? the police set up a reunification center at the nearby MacArthur Elementary School. People waited there for hours and hours on end, waiting for answers. Photos from that day show people hugging each other, sobbing. Others were holding hands with complete strangers. And every once in a while, a bus would pull up. Survivors of the shooting would pile out. The crowd of worried family members would scan their faces, desperately searching for their loved one. And when they didn't see them, they would anxiously wait for the next bus to come around. But the lucky ones would be reunited. Nineteen-year-old Tabitha Estrada had been hiding in a room near the front of Walmart that morning.
13:02 Courtney Brown? Later that day, when she finally saw her family, her mom screamed, "Miha, you're alive!". You can't imagine the relief they feel at that moment. But for dozens of other families, they wouldn't feel that relief. Hour after hour, bus after bus, their loved ones still hadn't shown up. They still hadn't answered their calls. Feeling hopeless, these people would give the police details of their missing family member. The police then took that information and began comparing it to the victims at the scene. You can't imagine the agony the families feel waiting for answers. Here is Edie Hallberg, waiting to hear about her 86-year-old mother, who had sadly passed.
13:47 Courtney Brown? I got tired of waiting and waiting and waiting, and I just want to know where my mom is. As the word continued spreading around El Paso, people were demanding answers. Who was the gunman? Why did he do this? And where did he come from? El Paso's mayor, Di Margo, told the media, "This person did not come from El Paso. It's not what we're about. We are a special community, and this would not have happened from an El Pasoan. I can assure you." And he was right. The gunman was not one of their own. In fact, investigators were about to learn that the gunman specifically chose El Paso
14:29 Courtney Brown? because the majority of its people are Mexican.
14:33 Colin Brown? Back over at the police station, the gunman, 21-year-old Patrick Crusius, was brought into interrogation room number four and read his Miranda rights by Detective A. Hernandez. Patrick waived his rights and agreed to speak with investigators without an attorney.
14:48 Speaker 04 Okay, Patrick. Where do you reside at?
14:52 Speaker 05 Reside?
14:53 Speaker 04 Yes.
14:53 Speaker 05 I just bounce around between my parents, my grandma's, and my...
14:57 Speaker 04 Is that here in El Paso, Texas? Where is that?
15:00 Speaker 05 It's in Dallas.
15:02 Courtney Brown? As of now, the police don't know that Patrick targeted El Paso because of his hatred for immigrants. They're just getting to know his background.
15:13 Courtney Brown? Patrick goes on to tell the officers, in his whiny little voice, that he's not in school and he has no job. He's just been bouncing around between houses.
15:24 Speaker 04 Okay. We want to know what happened today.
15:29 Speaker 05 Well, I just, I don't know, it's just, it's a long story, man.
15:34 Speaker 06 Well, we're here to hear it. We wanna hear it. Cause we wanna know what happened today.
15:38 Speaker 05 I mean, I just had violent thoughts and
15:40 Speaker 06 Okay.
15:40 Speaker 05 I've been battling them for a long time and I just
15:43 Speaker 06 Are you under any
15:44 Speaker 05 Yesterday, I mean, I didn't think I'd actually do it, but you know. Yesterday, I started having like, really violent thoughts and the next day I just drove and did it.
15:54 Speaker 06 Okay. Where were you yesterday, when you were having these thoughts?
15:57 Speaker 05 At my grandma's house, grandma's.
16:00 Speaker 06 Okay.
16:00 Speaker 05 I left when they were asleep.
16:02 Speaker 06 So you left, you left, um
16:04 Speaker 05 I couldn't sleep at midnight, so I just left and then did it.
16:07 Speaker 06 So this was in Richardson, at your grandparents?
16:10 Speaker 05 No, they live in Allen.
16:12 Speaker 06 I'm sorry. And now, you're in Allen, Texas, last night?
16:16 Speaker 05 Yeah.
16:17 Speaker 06 At your grandparents, and you're saying that you couldn't fall asleep? Cause you were having thoughts?
16:23 Speaker 05 Yeah, then, I mean, I have them all the time.
16:25 Speaker 06 Okay. Are you getting any help for that?
16:28 Speaker 05 I went to a therapist for a while, but I just didn't continue. I didn't think I could, with help.
16:33 Speaker 06 Okay.
16:36 Speaker 06 You left?
16:36 Speaker 05 Yeah.
16:37 Speaker 06 You left your grand
16:37 Speaker 05 I just drove straight here and then I drove around for a while and I just did it. This, this was something that was happening for a while and I just, I didn't think I'd go through with it though.
16:47 Speaker 06 Okay.
16:48 Speaker 05 And I just, it just helped me feel better, you know, if I, I don't know.
16:52 Courtney Brown? The detectives ask him, what was your thinking process while you were driving? Did you have a destination? Patrick answers this.
17:01 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, I didn't wanna do it anywhere near Dallas, cause it's like, I don't wanna traumatize my parents.
17:07 Speaker 06 Okay.
17:08 Speaker 05 So I just, you know, what's the furthest away from Dallas? El Paso, you know, pretty much, without crossing the border.
17:14 Speaker 06 So you told yourself, I'm gonna drive to El Paso, cause it's the furthest away from Dallas? Okay. So you get to El Paso now, correct? Sometime this morning. What do you do here in El Paso?
17:28 Speaker 05 I just drove around and then I went to the Walmart. And I don't honestly remember much, besides the shooting.
17:37 Speaker 06 Okay.
17:39 Speaker 06 And you obviously stopped at the Walmart that you saw off the off the highway? Is that why you stopped at that Walmart?
17:45 Speaker 05 I just Googled it on Google Maps.
17:47 Speaker 06 Okay. So then you get down from your car, right? You park in the parking lot of the Walmart. Right? Correct? You get down with your AK, you go inside and what happens?
18:00 Speaker 05 I don't, it's a blur. And I know I did it, I did it. I mean, I don't know what else matters.
18:05 Speaker 06 Okay.
18:06 Speaker 05 I did it.
18:08 Speaker 06 Do you know how many times you shot?
18:10 Speaker 05 No.
18:12 Speaker 06 Okay. Do you know how many people you hit?
18:17 Speaker 06 No?
18:18 Speaker 05 No idea.
18:19 Speaker 06 No idea? Okay, and everything, every every time you shot was only inside the Walmart?
18:25 Speaker 05 I think, I don't.
18:27 Speaker 06 Like what I'm saying is when you exited, when you left the Walmart, did you go anywhere else?
18:32 Speaker 05 I mean, I went to the parking lot somewhere else and then I just went right back. I tried to call, but no one. I called the police station on my phone, but no one picked up.
18:42 Speaker 06 You were calling nine one one?
18:43 Speaker 05 Yeah, to turn myself in, but no one picked up.
18:46 Speaker 06 Okay.
18:47 Speaker 05 I mean, it just went this English and Spanish thing over and over again.
18:51 Speaker 06 Okay.
18:52 Courtney Brown? Next, Patrick reveals the exact victims he was looking for that morning.
18:57 Speaker 06 Do you know, did you have an intention of shooting a particular group of people? What I mean is whites, Mexicans?
19:06 Speaker 05 Yeah.
19:07 Speaker 06 Blacks, anything like that?
19:08 Speaker 05 Yes, I was bullied in high school by Mexicans, so.
19:11 Speaker 06 You were what?
19:11 Speaker 05 I was bullied in high school by Mexicans, so.
19:14 Speaker 06 Okay. So, so your intent was to shoot Mexicans?
19:19 Speaker 05 Yeah, I mean.
19:22 Speaker 05 Yeah.
19:23 Speaker 06 Okay. So you're saying your intention was to shoot Mexicans? Because you were bullied in high school by Mexicans?
19:31 Speaker 05 I mean, I rationalize it in a different way, but. You know what I'm saying? But I didn't, that's really what it was. In reality, I guess I just. Have an issue with them, I don't know.
19:43 Speaker 06 Okay.
19:46 Speaker 06 So it's fair to say you don't, you don't like Mexicans?
19:49 Speaker 05 But did I tell you? I I posted that thing online.
19:52 Speaker 06 No, what did you post?
19:55 Speaker 05 The uh, like an explanation of why I did it.
19:59 Speaker 06 This is very important, okay, Patrick?
20:03 Speaker 06 Are you alone in this?
20:04 Speaker 05 Yes.
20:06 Speaker 06 Or is there multiple people, is there a group of you? That said, we're gonna do this, or hit certain areas in El Paso?
20:15 Speaker 05 Uh-uh.
20:16 Speaker 06 Okay, do you have any, uh? Do you have friends that you're close to? If you had to pick somebody that you're close to and you open up to, who would that person be?
20:26 Speaker 05 My dad, I guess.
20:27 Speaker 06 Your dad? I don't know, that's why I'm asking you. Okay, so you, you would say you and your dad have a very good relationship? And are very tight, and like, do you open up to him?
20:36 Speaker 05 Not really, I guess we don't, but maybe he thinks that.
20:41 Speaker 06 Okay. But again, you didn't tell or call somebody, text somebody on the side, email somebody?
20:48 Speaker 05 Uh, my, uh, my family was texting, I just ignored it.
20:51 Speaker 06 They were texting you prior or after?
20:53 Speaker 05 Just like, you know, where are you? I think my sister texted me, where are you, Patrick?
20:58 Speaker 06 Mm-hmm.
20:59 Speaker 05 I just ignored it. And my brother, I didn't even look, my brother texted me something, but I just ignored it too.
21:05 Speaker 06 Okay. Patrick, is that blood on your pants?
21:09 Speaker 05 I can't see.
21:10 Speaker 06 You can't see?
21:11 Speaker 05 I have glasses.
21:13 Speaker 06 Oh, okay.
21:13 Speaker 05 I, I asked an officer to take them off, so I couldn't look around.
21:17 Speaker 06 Okay.
21:17 Speaker 05 All the faces and stuff.
21:19 Speaker 06 Okay.
21:20 Courtney Brown? I thought that was an interesting comment. Patrick asked an officer to take his glasses off, so he couldn't see the faces of the people around him. And when it came to the shooting itself, and seeing the looks of terror on the victims' faces, Patrick didn't mind seeing that. But when it came to looks of judgment, he didn't wanna see it. But from here, he continues speaking with the Mexican detectives about his hatred of Mexicans.
21:49 Speaker 06 So again, it was just strictly, your target was Mexicans? Okay, and your reasoning for Mexicans is because you said you were bullied by them?
22:02 Speaker 05 Maybe that's the real reason, I, I rationalize in different ways, that sounds pathetic. Say that's really why I killed those people, but yeah, that's it.
22:10 Speaker 06 Okay. You had mentioned that you drove around for a little bit here in El Paso.
22:15 Speaker 05 I got lost, I couldn't.
22:16 Speaker 06 Oh, you got lost?
22:17 Speaker 05 I got lost in like the residential area for a while.
22:20 Speaker 06 And the only thing that led you to this Walmart was because you Googled it, so were you looking for a Walmart?
22:27 Speaker 05 I guess maybe I was hungry.
22:29 Speaker 06 Okay.
22:29 Speaker 05 And I just the spur of the moment I decided.
22:32 Speaker 06 When you get to this Walmart, do you, can you see that there's, for example,
22:39 Speaker 06 different diverse races or at this Walmart, was there specifically a lot of Mexicans?
22:46 Speaker 05 I don't remember. I don't. I mean Mexicans look different. You can't really tell someone's Mexican, you know, unless you like talk to them. I mean, you can't, you know, I mean, they look, it's like white Mexicans. I, I don't know.
23:03 Speaker 06 What did you, when, how, when you got to the Walmart, do you remember what doors you walked into? What section of Walmart you walked into?
23:11 Speaker 05 I mean, I don't know.
23:12 Speaker 06 Did you have your rifle covered or did you have it in plain view?
23:17 Speaker 05 I didn't, I didn't have a cover for it.
23:19 Speaker 06 Okay. Did you have it slung over you? So you were just holding it, walking into the Walmart?
23:25 Speaker 05 I think, yeah.
23:26 Speaker 06 Okay. Did anybody confront you or say anything to you? Do you recall?
23:31 Speaker 05 I mean, I don't think anyone would approach me with a gun.
23:34 Speaker 06 Well, yeah, but I'm just, you know, maybe a security guard. Did anybody sit there and say, hey, what are you?
23:38 Speaker 05 I guess I don't think anyone shot at me or anything. I thought it was gonna get gunned down, but.
23:43 Colin Brown? Patrick just said that he expected to get shot during the shooting. He then said, I was going to commit suicide when I ran away. I'm too much of a coward.
23:52 Speaker 06 And when you walked into the Walmart, how far would you say you walked into the Walmart?
23:57 Speaker 05 I don't think I went past the reception area.
24:00 Speaker 06 You mean like the registers?
24:02 Speaker 05 Yeah.
24:02 Speaker 06 Okay. And then you just started firing the weapon?
24:06 Speaker 05 Yeah.
24:07 Speaker 06 Okay. Did you see people falling?
24:11 Speaker 05 I don't know if this is right. I think they were already on the ground.
24:15 Speaker 06 Okay.
24:17 Speaker 06 Did you say anything? Did you yell anything out loud?
24:20 Speaker 05 No.
24:21 Speaker 06 No. Okay.
24:24 Speaker 06 And how long would you say you were inside the Walmart for?
24:27 Speaker 05 I don't, not long. I mean, I just.
24:31 Speaker 05 I don't know. I think I felt like a clip and I, I kind of just left.
24:35 Speaker 06 Okay. Did you have to reload?
24:38 Speaker 05 I don't know. Maybe.
24:39 Speaker 06 Okay.
24:40 Speaker 05 I mean, the mags are there. You can check. I filled them all up.
24:43 Speaker 06 You filled them all up?
24:44 Speaker 05 Yeah, I got how much I would need, so.
24:46 Speaker 06 Do you know how many go in a mag?
24:49 Speaker 05 Those thirty.
24:50 Speaker 06 Thirty?
24:51 Speaker 05 Yeah.
24:52 Speaker 06 Okay. How many mags did you have with you?
24:55 Speaker 05 Like four or five.
24:56 Speaker 06 Four or five?
24:57 Speaker 05 Yeah.
24:58 Speaker 06 And you don't know how many you used?
25:00 Speaker 05 Uh-uh.
25:02 Speaker 06 Okay.
25:03 Speaker 05 No idea.
25:04 Speaker 06 Okay.
25:06 Speaker 06 Just to clarify something you said, you think, you said the people were right, ready on the floor. So you, you fired when they were on the floor?
25:13 Speaker 05 Yeah, I don't think I fired anyone that was standing up.
25:16 Speaker 06 Okay, so pretty much, I would imagine, like, I saw, I'm sure they saw you. They hit the ground and from there you fired at them.
25:23 Speaker 05 Yeah, I think so. I don't think I fired anyone standing up.
25:27 Speaker 06 So your whole intention was to drive to El Castle? Because it's a bigger city, it's further away, and there's Mexicans here?
25:37 Speaker 06 Is that what you're saying?
25:38 Speaker 05 Yeah.
25:39 Speaker 06 Okay. Was that Walmart busy?
25:42 Speaker 05 Yeah, it was.
25:45 Speaker 06 Alright, your purchase of oranges was probably minimal. A couple of dollars, perhaps?
25:51 Speaker 05 Uh-huh.
25:52 Speaker 06 Yeah, is that correct?
25:53 Speaker 05 Yeah.
25:53 Speaker 06 Okay, so you stood inside and ate them, and then?
25:56 Speaker 05 Like, ate like one or two.
25:58 Speaker 06 One or two, okay. That's all you ate? Cause I think there's a restaurant in there, I'm not sure.
26:03 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, I just ate the oranges.
26:06 Speaker 06 Did you sit, where did you sit down to eat those oranges?
26:09 Speaker 05 I think I just ate them by the trash at the entrance.
26:11 Speaker 06 Okay.
26:12 Speaker 05 Yeah.
26:13 Speaker 06 And is this what you're looking at, just, just because you know you're gonna do this here now, so you're saying?
26:18 Speaker 05 Uh, it was impulsive, I mean, I just said, you know, screw it, here is good anywhere.
26:24 Speaker 06 Okay, so then you walked back to your car?
26:26 Speaker 05 Yeah, and I just did it.
26:28 Speaker 06 Did you sit in your car for a while, or did you just grab your rifle?
26:31 Speaker 05 I posted, I think I posted.
26:32 Speaker 06 You posted it, you posted your manifest?
26:35 Speaker 05 Yeah.
26:35 Speaker 06 Then you grabbed your weapon and went back inside?
26:40 Speaker 05 Yeah.
26:41 Speaker 06 Did anyone send you to do this?
26:46 Speaker 06 Instruct you to do this?
26:47 Speaker 05 I mean, I guess part of me went, you know, wanted to mean something, so. You know, it wasn't like, you know, if you read it, you'll see what I mean. I just didn't want it to be like, you know, I killed a hundred people and, you know, died.
27:03 Speaker 05 I guess, you know, it's pathetic.
27:07 Speaker 06 You're saying that you didn't want to kill a bunch of innocent people?
27:09 Speaker 05 Hmm? I mean, I thought I did. You know, I really thought that would be... I thought someone would shoot back, I don't know. You know what I'm saying? It's all there. Figured I'd die in the, you know. Someone would gun me down, but I guess someone in there had guns.
27:30 Courtney Brown? Patrick went on to say that he never had any friends, never had a girlfriend, or really, anyone close to him. He was your typical white incel who wanted to send a message to the world. He also said that he didn't want the media to label him a white supremacist. And that's the de facto thing they would resort to after hearing of his crimes. Patrick also told investigators that during the shooting, he opted to wear earmuffs because he was autistic and he didn't like the loud noises. He also said he had Asperger's, was antisocial, and had been prescribed ADHD medication when he was a child.
28:10 Speaker 06 We saw some surveillance footage, okay, of the incident. You're wearing some earmuffs or...
28:16 Speaker 05 Mm-hmm.
28:17 Speaker 06 Ear protection. Do you recall it?
28:20 Speaker 05 Yeah.
28:20 Speaker 06 Yeah? Where's that ear protection? Why did you wear ear protection?
28:24 Speaker 05 Because I don't like... I'm autistic, so...
28:27 Speaker 06 Okay.
28:28 Speaker 05 I don't like loud noises.
28:29 Speaker 06 Okay. All right, what else are you diagnosed with? You just mentioned, you know, that you're autistic.
28:33 Speaker 05 Lots of stuff.
28:34 Speaker 06 Like what? Can you tell me?
28:36 Speaker 05 I mean, I'm just on the spectrum. They say, you know, they just say, like, you're on the spectrum. Uh... I'm just not good people, I'm antisocial.
28:47 Speaker 06 Okay.
28:47 Speaker 05 So they say Asperger's a lot.
28:49 Speaker 06 Okay. What else? Asperger's?
28:53 Speaker 05 Just antisocial behavior.
28:55 Speaker 06 Yeah. Okay. And you said you're autistic?
28:59 Speaker 05 Hmm.
29:00 Speaker 06 Okay. Do you take medications for these?
29:03 Speaker 05 I used to. I used to take, like, ADHD medicine.
29:06 Speaker 06 Okay.
29:07 Speaker 05 A long time ago.
29:08 Speaker 06 How long have you been off the medication?
29:10 Speaker 05 Yeah, I was just when I was... So it's not relevant, I was just when I was little. I took ADHD, I don't like it, so I refused to take it.
29:18 Speaker 06 Okay. But how long have you... So you're no medication right now? You are?
29:24 Speaker 05 No, no, no medication.
29:25 Speaker 06 No medications? Okay.
29:30 Colin Brown? Ultimately, Patrick fully confessed to the shooting, stating that he harbored a hatred for Hispanics and that he wanted to kill as many of them as possible. This was clearly a hate crime. But during a press conference, despite knowing about the manifesto, where the shooter flat out said he wanted to kill as many Hispanics as possible, I want to stress that, Texas Governor Greg Abbott wouldn't call it a hate crime in his press conference. Instead, he chose to talk about the mental health crisis in America. And to remind you guys, we've covered this in an episode in the past. Greg Abbott, this is the same man who said that the Uvalde shooting could have been worse.
30:10 Colin Brown? A shooting where 19 students, children, babies, and two teachers were slaughtered in cold blood in their classrooms. But, I digress. Now, during this press conference, where Greg Abbott completely seemed to avoid the shooter's motivations, one of the reporters in the room stood up and asked, "The 800-pound gorilla in this room that nobody is talking about right now is the hate crime nexus related to immigration." From there, Representative Veronica Escobar grabbed the mic, and she seemed to be the only one who was willing to address the massacre for what it was.
30:47 Courtney Brown? The manifesto narrative is fueled by hate, and it's fueled by racism, and bigotry, and division. This is someone who came from outside of our community to do us harm. A community that has shown nothing but generosity and kindness to the least among us. Those people arriving at America's front door.
31:14 Colin Brown? The gunman, Patrick Crusius, was held without bond at the El Paso County Jail on capital murder charges. Apparently, when an FBI agent showed up to Patrick's grandparents' house, 77-year-old Larry Brown started yelling at them to "Get the hell out of here." But soon enough, there was a frenzy outside of their home. A neighbor said, "We walked out into the yard and immediately we were swarmed with cameras. Our neighbor's front yard was full of people, then the police came, the FBI came, and then local police shut the whole area down. We heard helicopters all night. I had to cross through two layers of security to go to the gym." Now, Patrick's family refused to speak with the media, but they did release a statement
31:55 Colin Brown? that read, "We are devastated by the events of El Paso and pray for the victims of this tragedy. Patrick Crusius is our grandson. He lived with us in our house in Allen, Texas while he attended Collin College. He moved out of our house six weeks ago and has spent a few nights here while we were out of town. His driver's license and mailing address were at our house in Allen. That connection has made us a focus of media, of course. We are talking only to law enforcement agencies and will not be making further statements to the media. We request the media to honor our privacy." Patrick's parents also released a statement that said, "Patrick's actions were apparently influenced and informed by people we do not know and from ideas and beliefs we do not accept or condone.
32:40 Colin Brown? He was raised in a family that taught love, kindness, respect, and tolerance, rejecting all forms of racism, prejudice, hatred, and violence."
32:49 Courtney Brown? Now by this point, there still wasn't a lot of information about the victims of this massacre, but there were many injured victims in the hospital. The university medical center's CEO, Jacob Centron, said of the shooting, "This is a terrible tragedy, and we are doing everything possible to treat and care for the victims and assist their families. Our hearts go out to all the victims of this terrible incident, and we will continue to provide the best possible care in hopes of a quick recovery for all." End quote. They also added that while their hospital has never dealt with the tragedy of this magnitude, they were prepared for it.
33:29 Colin Brown? The hospitals also asked the public for blood donations for the injured, and so many people showed up, they had to turn most of them away, which explains the city of El Paso perfectly. It's a city that cares for one another, one that steps up when people need help. And soon enough, the hashtag #ElPasoStrong started trending on social media. The entire nation was mourning along with them, especially after learning just how deadly the shooting was.
33:55 Speaker 04 Active shooter call went out this morning to 911 at 10:39 a.m. Police response, first officer on the scene was 10:45 a.m., a six-minute response time.
34:08 Speaker 04 From this shooter, we have 20 confirmed fatalities and we have 26 wounded. The ages and genders of all these people injured and killed are numerous and the age groups. The situation, needless to say, is a horrific one. Crime scene is being assisted by the FBI, various law enforcement agencies responding to this scene, the sheriff's department, DPS, border patrol, everyone that carries a badge and is now pretty much showed up to that particular scene. But needless to say, the scene is a horrific one.
34:50 Speaker 04 Unfortunately, because of the nature of the situation, the scene will be in play for a long period. Unfortunately, the deceased will remain at the scene until the scene is processed properly for evidentiary purposes to be gathered for later prosecution. The state of Texas will be the lead agency or entity prosecuting this particular individual. It has a nexus at this point in time to a hate crime. The FBI will be looking into that with the other federal authorities. Right now, we're looking at potential capital murder charges for this individual. I'm not going to give you his name right now. He's a 21-year-old white male out of Allen, Texas.
35:32 Colin Brown? Now sadly, that death count number he just said would eventually grow. But all around the nation, people were weighing in on the tragedy. President Trump tweeted, "Today's shooting in El Paso, Texas was not only tragic, it was an act of cowardice. I know that I stand with everyone in this country to condemn today's hateful act. There are no reasons or excuses that will ever justify killing innocent people." In a statement, Walmart said, "We're in shock over the tragic events at Cielo Vista Mall in El Paso. We're praying for the victims, the community, and our associates, as well as the first responders. We're working closely with law enforcement and will update as appropriate." Beto O'Rourke, who is a politician from El Paso, said this.
36:17 Colin Brown? I wish I was seeing everybody under different circumstances.
36:21 Speaker 04 ...and conditions.
36:25 Speaker 04 Our sympathies go out to the families of the victims, many of whom we just got to spend time with, some of whom do not know where their loved one is right now, many fearing and expecting the worst because they have not heard from them and have received no news. We also met incredibly heroic El Pasoans who have survived the most devastating injuries that I can imagine. Many of them shot many times over, who are pulling through right now. Just had a chance to talk to University Medical Center President Jacob Sintron, the nurses and the doctors who are taking care of these patients, absolute all-time heroes.
37:08 Speaker 04 This community that is bringing more food than anybody can eat right now inside, that is donating more blood than we could have possibly expected. El Paso is really showing up and standing up for our fellow El Pasoans right now. Lastly, just want to say I'm so grateful to the El Paso Police Department and the first responders and everyone who was on the scene today, including many of you who have to live with something that we thought we would never, ever see in El Paso. More murders today than we have in an average year in the city of El Paso.
37:50 Speaker 04 We don't know all the details yet and we await the completion of this investigation, but what I'm hearing from statements from the El Paso Police Department, preliminary indications that this is motivated by hatred, by racism, by an intolerance that is foreign to El Paso and in fact had to be brought somewhere else into this community to do something like what we are seeing right now. And so, I would just say that in addition to... Everything that we're doing for our fellow El Pasoans right now, and meeting them in this time of suffering and need and crisis. In addition to making sure that we change our laws so that it's harder for something like this to happen again.
38:32 Speaker 04 I think we also have to ask ourselves about the level of hatred and racism that we're seeing in this country right now that could lead to an event like the one that we saw here today. And that is on all of us to both call out and to stop. And in our case in El Paso, to be the example of how we don't just respect one another, we embrace our differences as a very source of our strength.
38:57 Courtney Brown? Now, over at MacArthur Elementary School, many people were still waiting to hear the fate of their loved one. As the hours passed, the remaining families at the school said that the wait was torturous. And sadly, many of them wouldn't even get answers that day. Later that evening, police officers instructed them to all go home and come back the next morning. Now, that night, just as our country was trying to wrap our heads around this senseless act of gun violence, another mass shooting took place. It was 12:13 a.m. in Dayton, Ohio, when a 24-year-old male walked into a bar called Blind Bob's and murdered nine people.
39:41 Courtney Brown? Meaning, two cities had been affected by gun violence in less than 24 hours, with over 30 people dead. I can't imagine what that must have felt like for the victims' families in El Paso, who were still waiting to hear about their loved one. Now, the following morning, those 20-plus families returned to the elementary school, just as the police instructed. Raul Flores Jr. hadn't heard from either of his parents since the shooting. He would later say of his mom and dad, Raul and Maria Flores, quote, "I can't contact them on the phone, and we're just waiting to hear what they have for us. We don't know if they're in the hospital. We don't know what's going on.
40:23 Courtney Brown? We haven't heard from them since 10 a.m. yesterday morning," end quote. Sadly, they were both among the murder victims. Eerily, by Sunday evening, there were still 20 bodies inside the Walmart. But finally, they had identified them. From there, the bodies were transported to the medical examiner's office. And one by one, investigators began informing the families of their deaths.
40:51 Colin Brown? That evening, hundreds of people gathered at Ponder Park to honor the victims. But it wouldn't be until the following day, when we would finally know their names. Authorities also reported that 26 people were being treated for their injuries at various hospitals. Now, almost immediately after the shooting, a makeshift memorial emerged behind the Cielo Vista Walmart. People from all over the country came to leave flowers, teddy bears, signs, and candles. There were also mini Mexican and American flags left there. There were signs that read "El Paso Strong," which had already been trending on social media worldwide. Over in Illinois, a carpenter named Greg Zanis, who ran a business called Crosses for Losses, decided to show his support by making white crosses for each of the victims.
41:37 Colin Brown? He then traveled over 1,500 miles to deliver the crosses to El Paso. He said, "When I do this, it's for each one, but this becomes the family of El Paso. You're going to hear 'El Paso Strong,' but El Paso, it's a family to me." Now, I have to say, I actually visited the memorial just a few days after the shooting happened in 2019. I was driving on a road trip from Austin, where I lived at the time, all the way out to Los Angeles, California. Yes, I was making that drive. It's a very long drive, but we're not going to talk about that right now. But I will always remember visiting that memorial.
42:21 Colin Brown? It was just a feeling that is absolutely indescribable. Now, obviously, time had passed since the shooting had happened, but the wound was still so extremely fresh. Visiting the memorial and leaving flowers there... It was just an absolutely powerful, overwhelmingly sad and emotional feeling. There were tons of people, there are dozens of people, like a substantial crowd of individuals. And yet, one of the biggest things that I noticed being there was that nobody was talking. It was just completely silent.
43:02 Colin Brown? And people were crying, people were hugging each other. You could feel the desperation, you could feel the sadness and the sorrow, but you could also feel the love from everybody that surrounded me. I'll just always remember that, looking around, looking at the names of those victims, looking at the people around me, and just being overwhelmed by this almost indescribable emotion, very, very heavy, and hearing nothing but silence and the sniffles of mourners. That truly was a moment in time that I will never forget until the end of my life.
43:47 Colin Brown? Are you ready to have your mind blown? I want you now to imagine that in front of you was a locked door, symbolizing all that you know, everything you've been taught in your time on earth, the lies your government has fed you. With my podcast, The Conspiracy Files, I now give you the door's key. And, once you've listened to the show, you finally unlock this door and step inside. Beyond the door is another dimension, a dimension of false narratives, a dimension of hidden evidence, a dimension of truth, lies, and murders. You're moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of deadly secrets and explosive ideas. You've just crossed over into the conspiracy zone. I'm your host, Colin Brown. Join me now on this journey into the world of secret pedophile rings, government cover-ups,
44:32 Colin Brown? and suspicious suicides on my new show, The Conspiracy Files, available now on all streaming platforms.
44:40 Courtney Brown? Now if you listened to our coverage on the Parkland, Florida, school shooting, then you probably recognized the name Joaquin Oliver. He was one of the victims in that shooting, which occurred a year earlier in 2018. But before the El Paso shooting even took place, his family was actually in El Paso for what would have been Joaquin's 19th birthday. That weekend, the city was honoring Joaquin by unveiling a mural of him at the Los Americas Immigration Advocacy Center. Joaquin's mom Patricia would later say that when they arrived in El Paso, they suddenly heard the news about a mass shooting in town. And as you can imagine, they were devastated.
45:24 Courtney Brown? Patricia said, quote, "This is unbelievable. I heard that El Paso is considered one of the safest cities in the country. I heard the same story about Parkland. They were on the same list. This is really sad. This is not normal. We have to open our hearts. If your heart says that this is something you don't want to keep seeing because you don't know when your turn is going to come, you have to do something about it. This is something we all have to stop, together." End quote. And I couldn't agree with her more. Now, on Wednesday, August 7th, President Donald Trump arrived in El Paso via Air Force One to meet with the victims and their families.
46:07 Courtney Brown? According to the El Paso Times, some survivors did not wish to speak with the president as they believed his anti-immigration rhetoric contributed to these events.
46:18 Colin Brown? Now, while there were a lot of heated discussions going on around this time, the city of El Paso was also wanting to keep the victims at the forefront. In the days after the shooting, there was a vigil held at Horizon High School for the youngest victim of the massacre, 15-year-old Javier Rodriguez. Hundreds of students gathered on the field where he loved to play soccer, and together they honored his life. A flyer for the vigil read, "Your presence we miss. Your memory we treasure. Loving you always, forgetting you never." Here are some clips from that vigil.
46:51 Speaker 03 Javier did not deserve to be taken away from his parents. Javier did not deserve to be taken away from his family.
47:04 Speaker 03 Javier Di Nataque deserved to be taken away from his friends.
47:08 Courtney Brown? Javier's family also released dozens of white doves to honor the victims. And after the vigil, his friend spoke with ITV News about the tragedy.
47:19 Speaker 03 Lots of sadness departed, lost the words. Pretty sadly. You know, like, we didn't deserve this. No, this should have happened.
47:29 Colin Brown? Now, over the next few weeks, the victims of this massacre were laid to rest. But once again, the city of El Paso really stepped up to support. Several funeral homes in the area partnered with Operation H O P E, or Hope, to provide free funeral services for all of the victims. Angel Gomez from Operation Hope told ABC, "As I say, this is how El Paso rolls. As one, we are one community." During these funerals, thousands of people came lining the streets. Hundreds of floral arrangements arrived from all over the world. It was a beautiful reminder that El Paso was not alone. In fact, groups of people gathered in cities like London, Toronto, and Sydney to stand in solidarity with El Paso.
48:15 Colin Brown? They held signs that read "El Paso Strong." In Juarez, where a number of the victims were from, a candlelight vigil was organized by the Rotary International Organization. During this vigil, the crowd turned in the direction of El Paso, and they shined their lights to honor the victims.
48:33 Courtney Brown? But as we know, this story did not end with the victims' funerals. Their families still had a long journey of grief ahead of them. And the survivors of the shooting would suffer from PTSD. As we mentioned, the El Paso Fusion Youth Soccer Team was holding a fundraiser at the front of Walmart that fateful day. Luckily, all of the girls, aged nine through 11, would survive. But several of their coaches, parents, and family members were shot that day. Some were even killed. But in the weeks after the tragedy, they all got together to play soccer, something that brought them a lot of joy in such a dark time.
49:15 Courtney Brown? During a pre-game ceremony with the El Paso locomotives, someone set off some fireworks. Upon hearing the loud pops, many of the girls huddled together and cried. The sounds brought them right back to August 3rd, just two weeks earlier, where they heard similar sounds of gunfire. And this is something that a lot of mass shooting survivors experience. The smallest thing can bring them right back to the worst day of their lives. This was a really difficult time for the girls of the soccer club. One of their coaches, Memo Garcia, was still fighting for his life in the ICU. And their head coach, Luis Calvillo, was having to learn how to walk again
50:00 Courtney Brown? after being shot five times in the legs and back. Now Luis spent over seven weeks in the hospital. It was one of the hardest experiences of his life, especially because he lost his own father in the shooting, Jorge Calvillo Garcia. Luis would later say, quote, "I got to the hospital and I was almost dead. I lost my father. I lost a very good friend. My dad is always looking over me, and I see him talking to me and telling me not to give up." End quote. Luis used these messages from his late father to keep fighting. By September 27th, 2019, he was still a little shaky on his feet. He had to use a cane to get around, but
50:44 Courtney Brown? he decided to surprise the girls at their second soccer game of the season. As you can imagine, they were so happy to see him. Now like we mentioned, another one of their coaches, Memo Garcia, had been shot that day as well. Following the shooting, he was rushed to the Del Sol Medical Center, where he underwent multiple surgeries. During the shooting, Memo shielded the young girl soccer team. In the process, he had been shot in the back with the bullet hitting several major organs. For nine whole months, he fought for his life, enduring over 50 surgeries. His wife Jessica said, quote, "There were days when he'd wake up, and he would sing, or he would smile,
51:28 Courtney Brown? blow kisses or make funny faces. And I think he did it out of love." End quote. In order to cheer him up, family and friends would bring him Dallas Cowboys memorabilia at the hospital. And he did his very best to stay strong for his loved ones. But deep down, Memo was hurting. His body was struggling. He was able to hold on long enough to spend Thanksgiving and Christmas with his family. He was also able to celebrate two of his children's birthdays. However, on April 25th, 2020, he tragically passed away, making him the final victim of this massacre.
52:09 Courtney Brown? His wife Jessica issued a statement that read, quote, "Last night at 11:22, we lost a warrior, but we gained an angel. He fought long and hard. With the help of all his troops, he won many battles but lost the war," end quote. With Memo Garcia's death, the victim count of the El Paso Walmart shooting was 23, making it one of the deadliest mass shootings in American history.
52:38 Colin Brown? With Memo Garcia's death, the gunman, Patrick Crusius, had his charges increased. A federal grand jury indicted him on 23 counts of hate crimes resulting in death, 23 counts of hate crimes involving attempted murder, and 45 counts of using a firearm to commit murder during a crime of violence. Now, initially, Patrick entered a plea of not guilty, but because this crime occurred in Texas, he was facing the death penalty if convicted. We have completed three search warrants outside of this jurisdiction, and we continue to look at all other avenues and investigative leads as they are coming in. I can tell you from the outset, the charge, the state charge is capital murder, and so
53:22 Colin Brown? he is eligible for the death penalty. We will seek the death penalty. The loss of life is so great. We certainly have never seen this.
53:32 Speaker 02 We are conducting a methodical investigation with our partners, a careful investigation, but with a view towards bringing federal hate crimes charges.
53:41 Courtney Brown? 18 USC 249 and federal firearms charges which carry a penalty of death.
53:50 Courtney Brown? Now, before we get into his trial, another big topic of conversation around this time was the website H Chan, where Patrick Crusius uploaded his manifesto. In 2019 alone, Patrick was the third mass shooter that uploaded their manifesto on the site. So clearly, H Chan attracts some horrible people. In the days after the shooting, Cloud Fair, the company that services the website, announced that they would no longer provide internet service for H Chan. Their statement in part read, quote, "In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as H Chan.
54:33 Courtney Brown? Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a creed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart, killing 20 people. Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on H Chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand." The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on H Chan, which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poe, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled open letter on H Chan.
55:15 Courtney Brown? H Chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate. H Chan is among the more than 19 million internet properties that use Cloud Fair's service. "We just sent a notice that we are terminating H Chan as a customer, effective at midnight tonight, Pacific time." The rationale is simple: "They have proven themselves to be lawless, and that lawlessness has called multiple tragic deaths." Even if H Chan may have not violated the letter of law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit." End quote.
55:54 Colin Brown? Now, in the summer of 2020, Patrick's defense team had to delay the trial because they were still having him evaluated by professionals. Apparently, the defense team, led by Mark Stevens and Joe Spencer, disclosed that Patrick had severe, lifelong neurological and mental disabilities. They also stated that Patrick had been in special education classes in school. And while in jail, he was prescribed antipsychotic medication. So that summer, they were still conducting their evaluations, and the COVID-19 pandemic didn't help with those delays. The defense also stated that there were more than 1.76 million files and 763 gigabytes of video to comb through in the discovery process.
56:37 Colin Brown? And they wanted to consider affirmative defenses for Patrick, aka an insanity defense. Now, according to court documents, Patrick had been evaluated by eight mental health professionals while in jail. And they officially diagnosed him with schizoaffective disorder, something that they said he likely had since childhood. In the 128-page report, Patrick said he had been having mood swings and hallucinations, but his symptoms got worse around age 20. He said that he even had to quit his job because he was having violent thoughts about hurting his coworkers. Now, his defense attorneys also brought up the fact that both of Patrick's parents had been on antipsychotic medication for over 40 years. So, mental illness seemed to run in the family.
57:21 Colin Brown? Defense attorney Joe Spencer also added, "Certainly, the mental health issues he has is not an excuse for his conduct, but it is part of his life that he grew up with and part of his family who also suffers from mental illness. That is a contributing factor to the horrific carnage that Patrick caused."
57:39 Courtney Brown? Now, while all of this was happening, the people of El Paso did their best to heal. Soon enough, the one-year anniversary passed. Then the second, and the third. And even all those years later, the loss of August 3rd, 2019, could still be felt throughout their community. And they still had a long journey ahead of them. Not only did they have the gunman's federal trial, but they had the state trial as well, both loomed over the victims and their families for years. Now, in early January of 2023, US Attorney Jamie Espaza decided to sit down with the victims' families. And following that meeting, it was announced that federal prosecutors would not seek
58:24 Courtney Brown? the death penalty. Now, this came as a huge shock. There was a lot of discussion about the death penalty around this time. Many people believed that if we're going to have executions here in America, who is more deserving of it than mass shooters? Especially since this one was a hate crime. But I think they partly came to this decision due to the gunman's mental health diagnosis. As we know, that can complicate things in a trial. So instead of pursuing the death penalty, they offered the gunman a plea deal, a decision that many people were not happy about.
59:03 Colin Brown? On February 8th, 2023, Patrick Crusius pleaded guilty to 90 federal hate crimes and firearms violations. He admitted to targeting Hispanics at the El Paso Walmart, something that was outlined in his manifesto. His defense attorney, Joe Spencer, stated that Patrick's diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder did play a part in the tragedy, but he reminded the court that it did not excuse his actions. He also reassured everyone that Patrick would leave prison in a coffin. Attorney General Merrick B. Garland stated, "Today, the Justice Department secured the guilty plea of Patrick Wood Crusius, a self-described white nationalist, for federal hate crime and firearms offenses in connection with the deadly mass shooting targeting people
59:48 Colin Brown? perceived to be Hispanic immigrants at a Walmart in El Paso, Texas in 2019. Nothing can undo the immeasurable loss suffered by the loved ones of the victims of that attack, or the terror inflicted on the El Paso community in its wake. Today's action makes clear that the Justice Department will not tolerate hate-fueled violence." that endangers the safety of our communities. FBI Director Christopher Wray said, “Today’s guilty plea marks one more step towards justice for the El Paso community. However, we must remember that the survivors and victims’ families will be on a lifelong journey of healing because of this defendant’s actions. We extend our heartfelt sympathy to the Hispanic community, who had their sense of security shattered by this heinous attack.
1:00:33 Colin Brown? The FBI will continue to seek justice for all those whose civil rights and safety are threatened by hate.”
1:00:40 Courtney Brown? In early July 2023, Patrick Crusius walked into court wearing a blue jailhouse jumpsuit. His hands and ankles were cuffed, and his face, void of emotion. Also in the courtroom that day were the survivors and the victims’ family members, who were all ready to read their impact statements. Now, cameras were not allowed in the courtroom, so we are going to read some of these statements. The first being from 16-year-old Genesis Devia. Genesis stood at the podium and said, “I will always hate him for what I went through at the age of 12, and I’m 16. Now, when I go into stores, I look for exits in case it happens again.
1:01:23 Courtney Brown? I want you dead. I hate you so much. Not only did you make me and my family suffer, you made my community suffer. And I want you to rot in jail for eternity. You came to our quiet community, uninvited.”
1:01:39 Courtney Brown? Genesis was a member of the EP Fusion soccer team. She said of her coach Memo Garcia, “It hurt to see him in the ICU. I believed he would recover, but then we heard he died. I didn’t want him to be gone. I didn’t want this to be real. I will never forgive you.”
1:02:00 Courtney Brown? Another unnamed member of the soccer team stepped up to the podium and told the gunman all about how he had ruined her life. Through sobs, she said, “He started shooting. I prayed to God. I still remember everything so clearly, even though I have tried to erase it from my memory. I used to be a happy, normal teenager, until a coward chose to use violence against the innocent. I am no longer as happy as I used to be.”
1:02:30 Colin Brown? The family of Alexander Hoffman also stepped up to read their statements. His son, Thomas, held up a picture of his father and told the gunman, "See it, see it." He then said, "Before you killed my father in such a cowardly way, we were a loving family. He loved everyone. He was respectful. He was not a racist like you. If you think killing innocent, defenseless people makes you powerful, you are wrong. You are an evil parasite. You are nothing without a weapon. You are a stupid coward. I hope at night you think of all the people you killed. I hope you can't ever sleep. You're a mistake of society." Alexander's daughter, Elise, also stated, "The killer robbed us of our father. Robbed him of seeing his grandkids."
1:03:16 Courtney Brown? David Johnson's family also read their statements. On the day of the shooting, he shielded his wife and granddaughter from the bullets, ultimately saving their lives. One of his family members said, quote, "He was surrounded by three gun shells. That could have been one each for him, my aunt, and my niece. He protected them from that murderer and worked as a shield. If he hadn't been there, they wouldn't have made it," end quote. David's brother-in-law, Raymond, confronted the shooter, saying, quote, "I don't know what kind of people raised you to be this kind of person. Shame on your parents," end quote. In response, the gunman rolled his eyes. Raymond continued by saying, "You can roll
1:04:01 Courtney Brown? your eyes if you want to. It doesn't bother me." Now, following this, David's wife, Kathleen Johnson, said of her husband, quote, "He was shot at close range by a coward, and there was his innocent blood everywhere. I don't know when I'll be the same. The pain you have caused is indescribable. I've had countless hours of counseling to deal with my PTSD. I have to remind myself every day that I am safe from this killer. There are days when I can't even get out of bed," end quote. David's daughter Stephanie told the gunman, "Having my baby screaming in the background, hearing my dad was shot, that was shattering. My dad made sure she came home that day."
1:04:46 Courtney Brown? Stephanie went on to say to the gunman, "I want you to remember my voice. I speak for all of the daughters who lost their fathers. In your act of hatred, you stole a good man from this world. He will be remembered, but you will not. You showed his granddaughter evil. You showed her that monsters exist outside of fairy tales. I've been asked if I would forgive you. As of today, no." And then finally, David's granddaughter took the stand. Thirteen-year-old Caitlin Melendez was the youngest to give her statement. She was nine years old at the time of the shooting. In court, she said, "I imagine every day, everywhere I go, that there might be a gunman.
1:05:31 Courtney Brown? You're not a monster. You're the devil. I will never forgive you. You took away my childhood. I hope you get no mercy. You deserve the punishment you get. It isn't fair I had to go through this."
1:05:47 Colin Brown? Next, Bertha Benavides stepped up to the podium. Her husband Arturo was shot and killed that day. And through sobs, she told the gunman, "Arturo changed my whole life. He was my life. He was a wonderful, loving man. We never had children, so you left me alone. I miss him terribly. He was a loving husband. He was my support. I ask why you did it, but then I answer that myself. You never knew the Lord. You never knew the Lord. If you did, you would never have done this. You destroyed so many families. You left children without parents, spouses without their spouses. I pray every night for all the victims, and I know they are all in heaven. They are not suffering. They are in peace, and I hope you think about them."
1:06:33 Courtney Brown? The families of Marybel Hernandez Loyah and her husband Leonardo Campos also spoke to the shooter. They were the couple who stopped by Walmart after dropping their dog off at the groomers. Marybel's brother Alfredo said that he can't even celebrate holidays anymore because of the deep sadness he feels without them. He said that every time he goes out in public, his sense of security is gone because he has to be "on the lookout for other psychos like you." He said of his family, "They were happy and loving. They went to the dog groomer and then the store until a monster took their lives.
1:07:14 Courtney Brown? You are a coward hiding behind the lawmaking agreements to avoid the death penalty. I hate that you're alive, eating and sleeping. I wish you all the sadness in the world. I hope you rot in jail and go to hell."
1:07:30 Colin Brown? Christopher Morales stepped up to the podium and told the gunman that he was just about to fly to El Paso to visit his family when he got a call from his mother. On the phone, she murmured that she had been shot. She was in an ambulance on the way to the hospital. She was so weak an EMT had to hold the phone to her ear. And then he learned that his 82-year-old grandmother, Teresa Sanchez, was killed in the shooting. Christopher went on to say that the gunman has the privilege of still getting to talk to his family. He gets to have three meals a day. At this point, the gunman started nodding his head, which upset Christopher. He then yelled out, "You get to suck dick in prison? You get to be a little bitch?" The gunman responded with a smirk.
1:08:12 Colin Brown? Another member of the family, Amaris Vega, told the gunman that her mother survived a softball-sized wound to the chest. She then said, "In your pathetic sorry manifesto, you stated that you wanted to save Texas. But guess what? You didn't. You failed. We are still here and we are not going anywhere. And for four years, you have been stuck in a city full of Hispanics. So, let that sink in."
1:08:36 Courtney Brown? Next, Dean Recker took the stand. He lost his 63-year-old mother Margie in the shooting. Dean told the gunman, quote, "I noticed you're smiling and rolling your eyes as these families read their impact statements. Do you sleep good at night?" The gunman shook his head, "No." Dean then asked, "You haven't showed any signs of remorse. You just wanted to be a copycat?" The gunman shook his head, "No." "Are you a white supremacist?" he asked, again. He shook his head, "No." "Are you sorry for what you did?" The gunman nodded, "Yes." Next, Adriana Manzano came to the podium. She lost her 41-year-old husband Ivan Filiberto Manzano.
1:09:20 Courtney Brown? She addressed the gunman in Spanish, telling him that Ivan was she and their children's hero, prince, and pillar of support. She said, quote, "My daughter won't have her father to give her away at her wedding. My son won't have someone to teach him to shave or learn how to drive. Their dad and the kids are proud to be Mexican, and as a wife and mother to them, I am proud to have been a part of this Mexican family," end quote. Adriana added that she hopes one day, her children will let go of the hatred they feel towards the gunman, so they can move on. Now, the last impact statement was from Margaret Juarez. Her father, 90-year-old Luis Juarez, was killed that day, and her mother Martha was
1:10:05 Courtney Brown? injured. At the podium, Margaret told the gunman that he was ignorant. She talked about his manifesto, and how he thought the US was being invaded by immigrants. "But your history teachers must have taught you wrong," she said. She added, quote, "Native Americans and Mexicans were already here before your American settler homies rolled in. Think about that when you say you're defending your country," end quote. Margaret went on to say that immigrants are an important part of this country. She called the gunman "a racist." She said, quote, "You're so worried about immigrants taking away something from you. Well, the only thing we're taking away today is your freedom," end quote.
1:10:51 Courtney Brown? As she walked away from the podium, the courtroom erupted in applause.
1:10:56 Colin Brown? Outside of the courtroom, Paul Jimrowski spoke to reporters. His daughter, 24-year-old Jordan Anchondo, was killed in the shooting alongside her husband, Andre. Paul told the media that he was trying to find strength through prayer. He said, "Prayer before you come in here to give you the strength and wisdom and endurance to just sit through and be in the same courtroom with the person who killed your family member." I mean, you sit there and you think, "Man, if you didn't do what you did, I would have my child to hold and hug right now." The Anchondo family would later release a statement that read, "Why didn't you do the dirty deed yourself and just kill yourself? You don't deserve to live."
1:11:35 Courtney Brown? Now, once this federal trial ended, the fight for justice was not over. The survivors and victims' families still had to go through the state trial, which wouldn't be for several more years. In the meantime, the people of El Paso did their best to move forward. It was a task that seemed impossible, especially for people who lost loved ones that day. In December of 2023, Memo Garcia's daughter, Karina, had her quinceañera, a celebration that all Latinas look forward to. But Karina had to celebrate without her father. During the father-daughter dance, she danced alone, holding a metal urn with Memo's ashes inside.
1:12:19 Courtney Brown? She told the El Paso Times, "In the moment, he's here with me." As for his wife, Jessica, she admitted that Christmases without Memo were difficult, because that had always been his favorite holiday. But they still try and hold on to his traditions every year to keep his memory alive.
1:12:39 Colin Brown? Will Englisby told the Dallas News that, in his grief journey, he visited his mother's grave several times a week. He said that his mother, Maria, was a strong woman who taught her children to be proud of their American and Hispanic cultures, and that her absence is missing. He said, "Every day is a struggle. I just come and see my mom. That's the best thing I can do. Sometimes I tell her it won't be long. Our life here is very short. I'm 58, 59. I don't have too much more to go. We'll all be together."
1:13:10 Courtney Brown? Another family I want to mention is the Anchondo family. After Andre and Jordan were gunned down that day, their two-month-old baby Paul was left without his parents. Now, following his release from the hospital, Paul was given to his paternal grandparents, Gilbert and Brenda Anchondo. And according to family members, he is thriving. Andre's brother Tito said, "We've been putting collections together of my brother's photos, his accomplishments, basically trying to get as much information that we can." End quote. They wanted to make sure to keep their memory alive so that Paul will always know just how special his parents were. But their family's loss was incredibly hard.
1:13:55 Courtney Brown? Gilbert Anchondo, Andre's father, said that after the shooting, he kept running through the what-ifs. "What if I had just stayed in Juarez and raised my family there?" he would ask himself. "Would Andre still be here?" Gilbert would later say that he was the first person to hold Andre when he was a baby, and after his death, he was the final person to say goodbye as they closed his casket. After his son's death, Gilbert was full of heartache. But the one thing that brought him so much joy was his grandson Paul. Now sadly, Gilbert would pass away in 2021 after suffering a heart attack. But his family found peace in the fact that he had finally been reunited with his son and daughter-in-law.
1:14:41 Colin Brown? As for baby Paul, his family even read a statement from him during the federal trial we just mentioned. Although he hadn't grasped exactly what had happened to his mom and dad, he did know the grief of missing them. At trial, his family read a letter from him that said, "Dear Dad, I miss you. I miss having a father. I miss my dad. I ask Grandma, why can't I go to heaven and see you? I know where you and Mom are. Your son, Paul G."
1:15:06 Courtney Brown? In the years after the shooting, the community of El Paso continued to put one foot in front of the other. Some days were easier than others. The hardest days were the anniversaries of the shooting, the victims' birthdays, their wedding anniversaries, or the countless holidays without their presence. But the one thing everyone was looking forward to was the state trial, so they could finally put this whole thing behind them. And that wouldn't come until March 26, 2025, nearly six years after the massacre. Now, initially, they were pushing for the death penalty in this trial. But eventually, just like the federal trial, they ended up offering the gunman a plea deal.
1:15:51 Courtney Brown? Once again, this came as a surprise to a lot of people, especially considering Texas is a big death penalty state. Now, District Attorney James Montoya stated that he came to this decision after speaking with the victims' families. Clearly, bringing this to trial would be a lengthy process. I also think they were worried about whether they'd even get a death penalty sentence, considering the gunman's mental health diagnosis. And according to the DA, many of the victims said they just wanted closure. But I'm not sure everyone was happy about this decision. Here is the DA, James Montoya, addressing the plea deal.
1:16:32 Speaker 03 This was not a decision that was reached lightly or hastily. This is something that has been ongoing for a discussion that has been ongoing for several months. It's something that I personally have thought about very much so. I started these conversations apologizing to them, that I'm the fourth DA that they have to meet over the last six years. Families have been in limbo for six years. Six whole years. I do feel like we need to talk about this, and I want to give you the opportunity to address it.
1:17:08 Speaker 06 But you yourself admitted that you'd run your campaign leaning towards seeking the death penalty. And, you know, this was attack that killed 23 people, but it was a racially motivated attack that was against people that looked like most of our community. What do you have to say to the people who now feel betrayed and maybe even misled by this decision?
1:17:28 Speaker 03 Yeah, I, I, the circumstances, not even the circumstances, I met with the families. It's that simple. That's what changed. I, I'm telling you, to this day, right now, I think he deserves to die for what he did. That is my personal opinion. But that, you know, I'm, I'm the community's elected representative, I'm these families' representative, and I cannot tell them to their face after having these conversations with them where they have told me that they want this case over with, for me to tell them, "I hear what you say, I understand it, but nah, we're gonna keep doing this." I am not gonna do that.
1:18:08 Colin Brown? And finally, on April 21st, Patrick Crusius pleaded guilty to murdering 23 people and wounding 22 others. Ultimately, the plea deal avoided the death penalty and a lengthy criminal trial. Now, at the end, Patrick was given an opportunity to make a statement to the court, but he refused. So, from there, Judge Sam Madrono sentenced him to 23 consecutive life sentences without parole. The judge then delivered this powerful statement.
1:18:36 Speaker 06 The court wishes to address you at this time. On August 3rd, 2019, you traveled nine hours to a city that would have welcomed you with open arms. You brought not peace, but hate. You came to inflict terror, to take innocent lives, and to shatter a community that had done nothing but stand for kindness, unity, and love. You slaughtered fathers, mothers, sons and daughters.
1:19:18 Speaker 06 You are guaranteed the rights that every person is entitled to under the law. Now, as you begin the rest of your life locked away, remember this: Your mission failed.
1:19:36 Speaker 06 You did not divide this city. You strengthened it. You did not silence its voice. You made it louder.
1:19:46 Speaker 06 You did not instill fear. You inspired unity. El Paso rose. Stronger and braver. The community you tried to break has become a symbol of resilience. Of love overcoming hate. Of humanity enduring in the face of evil. This community will always remember those whose lives you stole. Their names. Their stories. Their accomplishments. Their light will never fade. While you. Your name and your hate. Will be forgotten.
1:20:30 Courtney Brown? Over the course of the next two days, the victims were able to read their impact statements once again. For many, it had been years since they last confronted the gunman at the federal trial. And during that time, some had even found forgiveness in their hearts. However, others were more angry than ever. But this time around, they did allow cameras in the court and they were able to pick up the audio of these impact statements. So here is Francisco Rodriguez, the father of 15-year-old victim Javier.
1:21:03 Speaker 04 My son was 15 years old at the time. He was pretty much a bystander. He just went down there with his uncle to the bank. Look at me. Look at my son. You had the balls to come down here and do what you wanted to do, right? Look at him. I'm only asking you two minutes. Two minutes of your time. You had over 10 hours to think about what you were gonna do. Now you can't, you can't give me two minutes? Thanks to you, thanks to you, now I go to the cemetery with my family on my son's birthday. We take a cake. Some ice cream. We're down there saying, "Happy birthday." And then we eat cake and ice cream. Thanks to you. Thanks to you, now I don't have the, I won't have the opportunity.
1:21:47 Speaker 04 To punish him, to give him guidance. Thanks to you. His goals are gone. Everything vanished on August 3rd, 2019 because of you. A 15-year-old that had a lot ahead of him.
1:22:03 Speaker 04 I wish I could just get five minutes with you, you know, me and you. And get all this, get it over with.
1:22:11 Colin Brown? Here's the son of Luis Juarez.
1:22:14 Speaker 04 My name is Luis Juarez Jr. My father was Luis Juarez Sr. My father was the oldest of your victims. He was ninety years old.
1:22:30 Speaker 04 You came into our city and killed a bunch of viejitos. Old people, young people, you didn't care who they were, how old they were. You just wanted to kill. Who does that? You do. We're here to expedite your departure from our city.
1:22:52 Speaker 04 You're not getting the death penalty.
1:22:56 Speaker 04 So, this is to get you out of our hair. You've been here long enough. You need to leave our city. The word coward has been floated plenty of times. So, let me give you the definition of coward. A person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, pain, etc. A timid or easily intimidated person.
1:23:23 Speaker 04 That's you.
1:23:25 Speaker 04 A flunky.
1:23:27 Speaker 04 I read a little bit about you and you showed up to your college class drunk. I guess you remember that. So, you were written up for that. So, even before you came here, you were a flunky.
1:23:41 Speaker 04 I'm just wondering what your family thinks about you. We've never heard of your family coming to any of your hearings. Because they probably have to hide for the rest of their lives because of what you did.
1:23:55 Speaker 04 The schizophrenia that they claim that you suffer from. A lot of people suffer from that.
1:24:06 Speaker 04 But they don't go out and kill a bunch of people because they're crazy. No, they don't. But you do. You did. My father...
1:24:17 Speaker 03 Was a gentle soul. But, and I, as being the oldest, I saw how my parents struggled. It wasn't always easy.
1:24:29 Speaker 03 I saw firsthand how they sometimes didn't have enough money to do the things that they wanted because they had a family to raise. So, so they did without, they did without, so that we could have a future.
1:24:46 Speaker 03 Then you came along and did this.
1:24:50 Speaker 03 My mother witnessed you murdering my father.
1:24:56 Speaker 03 And when she called out his name, you turned your weapon and shot her. Who does that? You, you do that.
1:25:07 Speaker 03 She's a survivor, she's still alive because you shot her in the arm. And she wears a steel rod to this day. And it's painful, it was painful for many years. She cannot live by herself anymore, so she lives with my sister Martha.
1:25:27 Speaker 03 And we don't dwell on you remembering, we don't, we don't care about you. We don't dwell on hate. Oh, we hate that guy for what he did. We don't talk about you. And when you leave this city,
1:25:43 Speaker 03 we're gonna forget about you real quick.
1:25:49 Speaker 03 We came here to the United States, but we didn't come here to be helped, we came here to help and to contribute. Just
1:25:59 Speaker 03 like the Italians and the Irish, they came here to work, we did too. And many other peoples from all over the world. We came here to contribute, not to be parasites.
1:26:11 Speaker 03 My parents did a great job raising us.
1:26:16 Speaker 03 My siblings and I, you know, we prospered, we got an education, we had good jobs. And you came along and killed my dad. My parents have been married for seventy years. That's a lifetime. The Great Replacement Theory. You remember that? You know about that? It's a theory. I just don't see you, I can't picture you working the fields, picking lettuce or tomatoes. I can't see you doing anything with your hands. Except shooting a gun. Your mission failed. You made us stronger. You united us.
1:27:00 Speaker 03 And all that kool-aid that you drank from your buddies, that poisoned you. And look at you now. Where are your buddies now? They're still hiding under a rock. And then, once in a while, they come out, do their thing. But you believe in that. Who does that? Who falls for that crap? You do. You... I don't know if you really feel sorry for what you did. I think that white supremacists and people like you, they don't feel remorse. They feel like, "Well, my job is done." Well, after you killed twenty-two people and then the man that later died, twenty-three,
1:27:42 Speaker 03 you said, "Okay, I guess I'm gonna give up now because, well, I'm a coward." You're not gonna be facing law enforcement with your weapon because you would have been killed. And that would have saved us a lot of time. And money. And heartaches. And now, you have all this time to think about these things. I saw a picture of you with your protection, shooting glasses, I guess, you know. I saw that and I said, "Well, this guy can't prepare." And then, you made sure that you had howling bullets for a maximum effect, right? Is that what you thought? Who does that? You, you do.
1:28:27 Speaker 03 You know, when you're laying down in your cell and it's a quiet night, you're gonna hear the screams and you're gonna see all the blood. Because guess what?
1:28:42 Colin Brown? Your brain recorded everything. And it's gonna come back. Just lay still, very quietly, and you'll hear the screams. And you'll see the blood. And the people that you killed, the viejitos. We're all gonna be living our lives, we continue to live our lives, but yours is over.
1:29:03 Colin Brown? Here's the daughter of Luis Juarez, Margaret. Her audio got cut out for a bit, but she started talking about the gunman's arrest. And here's what she said next.
1:29:12 Speaker 05 I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna be a big guy, and then I'm gonna go right away. And what did you do? Oh, oh, oh, help me, help me. What happened to the tough guy that walked into the Walmart with all those poor old people? The little children, what happened to that guy? Why didn't you keep going? And why here? I'm gonna tell you, you made the biggest mistake coming here, buddy.
1:29:33 Speaker 05 I've never been as proud as I was of El Paso community. The police department, the detectives, everybody in the DA's office, they've been amazing. And I'm so proud to see so many brown faces in these high positions. Thank God, it's about time. And it's only gonna keep getting that way, Patrick. While your sorry ass sits in jail. But just remember that you killed a 90-year-old man. But that man was driving, he was climbing ladders, he was doing his own lawn. But he didn't get to go home that day. We didn't know where he was, we couldn't find him at any hospital. It was a little bit of torture there, Patrick, but I'm glad you're there. I'm glad you're there. Because guess what? I'm gonna leave here and maybe go have a margarita, go watch the sunset. And where's Patrick gonna be?
1:30:19 Speaker 05 His sorry ass will be in jail for the rest of your life.
1:30:22 Colin Brown? Here's the daughter of victim Gloria Irma Marquez.
1:30:26 Speaker 05 August 3rd, 2019. A day I will remember for all eternity. That day that changed our lives from going to sleep saying to my mom, "Mañana la veo, la quiero mucho", to waking up to chaos and tragedy. I had a missed call. I called my mom, but there was no answer.
1:30:48 Speaker 05 I remember calling her partner, who was there with her at that time, and him answering. Me in such a desperate manner. Ruby, your mom is inside. I came to grab a coffee and I was pushed out by the people. But I haven't seen Gloria come out.
1:31:03 Speaker 05 She was on the line to cash out her check. Panicking and trying to stay calm, I asked him, what was going on? I started to sound out as soon as he began to say, there were shots going on, I don't know where they were coming from. Pero Gloria, she was there at the bank. I tried going, but I got pushed out by the people. I remember hearing all the chaos going on behind me on the background through the phone.
1:31:30 Speaker 05 Without saying anything back to him, I rushed to turn on the TV and there it was. I started asking him, are you sure she was there? Are you sure? Have you tried calling her?
1:31:42 Speaker 05 Once he told me he didn't see her getting out and that she was not answering the phone, my heart dropped.
1:31:50 Speaker 05 It all felt like such a vivid nightmare. I had no choice but to pick up the phone and call my brother and my sisters to tell them what was happening. I'd never been the strong one and that day, he made me do things that I didn't want to.
1:32:07 Speaker 05 I had my middle sister driven for hours from Albuquerque to Paso in the spur of us finding our mother.
1:32:15 Speaker 05 I called my brother, felt heavy as soon as he asked me, are you sure Ruby? She was there? How do you know she was there? I replied, si es allah. I began explaining everything to him and what her partner had mentioned to me.
1:32:32 Speaker 05 Before calling my older sister in Juarez, I called my mom again, hoping she would answer.
1:32:39 Speaker 05 But it went straight to voicemail.
1:32:42 Speaker 05 That's when I realized this was really happening. I got ready and I headed to Walmart, but I couldn't get through. My brother and I drove until they gave us a place to go, where multiple buses were dropping off anyone who was there at the scene. My sister and I waited for the last bus to arrive, waiting with anticipation and with hope that she was gonna come down, but she didn't. We waited at the designated drop until they gave us another place to go.
1:33:15 Speaker 05 Another place for our questions to be answered, a place
1:33:20 Speaker 05 Where I couldn't stop calling the hospitals, where I kept calling her phone and went straight to voicemail.
1:33:26 Speaker 05 As I sat there looking around, I knew.
1:33:30 Speaker 05 I knew because it had been hours.
1:33:33 Speaker 05 She wouldn't call any of us by now and ask us, ven recoja a mi.
1:33:40 Speaker 05 But that wasn't the case.
1:33:43 Speaker 05 The more I looked around, there was just a feeling there searching for hope.
1:33:49 Speaker 05 I began to spread the word, describing that she was a non-English speaker, that what she was wearing, how she looked, even posted a picture of her. I also stated that she was an immigrant who will not approach any law enforcement. After another couple of hours, FBI agents and police officers started to tell us. In about ten to fifteen minutes, there will be updates. As we waited, I became anxious for answers. I believe that's when we all came, united together as a family and as a city. We waited fourteen hours with hope and faith, and we prayed. We held hands with strangers around the classroom before we got any news.
1:34:35 Speaker 05 That following morning, I remember praying in Spanish and English, tightly holding the hand of a stranger. Hearing the silence of our emotions, we're really loud that morning.
1:34:47 Speaker 05 My family was one of the first to be notified. I remember us sitting in the chairs with maybe four people in front of us, and them letting us know that this individual killed their mother.
1:35:00 Speaker 05 I remember that everybody reacted differently as my siblings left out the room. With their emotions, I was left there staring at the floor, from which as the investigators were telling me what was going to happen next and where I could reach him for further questions whenever we were ready.
1:35:18 Speaker 06 We will never forget August 3rd. A day I've been stuck on, almost going to be six years, and I still feel like it's happening this morning. Every time I hear her name, there's a tiness in my chest that feels like a shot to my body. I wake up sweating from the custom, nightmares dreaming that she's here with me. And then waking up to reality.
1:35:39 Speaker 06 I dealt with my own depression and anxiety. And I can tell you as much I can say, I am okay. I'm really not okay. I will still call her phone just to hear her voice through her voicemail. But I stopped realizing her number belonged to a stranger now. I said as strong as I could have been these years for my mom and my family.
1:36:02 Speaker 06 Gloria Inma Marquez, mi mamá.
1:36:06 Speaker 06 As a proud Mexican-American, we don't give up. Look around you, we are everywhere. We are lawyers, we are nurses, we are officers, we are CEOs. We serve our country for the better and for the good.
1:36:22 Speaker 06 We are what makes America great again.
1:36:26 Speaker 06 Without us, the country and the economy will go down. We are the ones who do the dirty work for the lazy pathetic people like you. You know what my mother, my mother would say to you?
1:36:39 Speaker 06 Pinchi pendejo, vales verga.
1:36:43 Speaker 06 Amárate un pinchi huevo y ponte las pilas y ponte a trabajar. Fucking dumbass. You ain't shit. Grab your balls, get your shit together, and find a job.
1:36:54 Speaker 06 You thought it was easy, but it only gets harder for you over the years.
1:37:00 Speaker 06 You won't sleep at night because of the famous saying that we all Mexican mothers say. El día que yo me muera, te voy a jalar las patas. The day I die, I'll be pulling you by your feet. And I know she is.
1:37:14 Speaker 06 I know she's not letting you sleep at night. I know they haunt you for the pain you caused. And you fail. You're a waste of human being. To the El Paso community for all these years, for the people who stood by us and walked with us. Throughout the years, I want to say thank you. This community showed me in all of us resilience when we all needed it. Don't forget where Past the Strong came from. It came from a small community that rose up and made everyone strong. And for that, I am grateful. I wish I could hug every single person affected by this, the families, the survivors, and the wounded. There's never a day I don't think about every one of you.
1:37:58 Colin Brown? Here's the sister of Jordan Anchondo.
1:38:00 Speaker 05 Hi, my name is Lira Cuellar. And on August 3rd, 2019, you took the lives of my sister Jordan Jamrowski Anchondo and her husband Andre Anchondo. The morning of August 3rd, 2019, I woke up and went to a funeral for someone from my church. I didn't know them well, but my mom did, and I went to support her. I remember sitting there and crying, not just because of the sadness that filled the faces of her family around me, but because it hit me that I was 19 years old and I had never really experienced death. It made me emotional to think about how lucky I had been. I remember thinking to myself, "Thank God, I still have my whole family." And I couldn't imagine what it would feel like to lose someone I loved, especially
1:38:45 Speaker 05 at an age where I could truly understand what loss meant. Looking back, it feels eerie that I had that thought that morning, because later that very same day, everything changed. I had no idea that within hours, my family would be shattered, that we would be faced with unimaginable, that we would soon be planning funerals for two people we loved more than anything, and that we'd be burying them in the same cemetery that I had just left, still carrying the weight of that morning's sadness, not knowing it was only the beginning. When we made the realization that day that Jordan and Andre were there, our minds were racing. Clinging onto a slim hope that they were okay.
1:39:30 Speaker 05 Hours later, we had received a call that everything was in fact not okay. My oldest sister was gone. But in that moment, we couldn't grieve because we knew she had her family with her. Husband and two of their three children that day. So sadness quickly left our minds and instead was replaced by fear. Fear of not knowing how many people we would have to bury that day. Would it stop with just Jordan? Please let it stop with just her. It's what I prayed over and over again. But the terror continued. We learned the next day Andre was gone as well. The baby recovering from his parents protecting him. And their oldest daughter safe. Since then, we've been living in a world that feels unfamiliar and broken.
1:40:16 Speaker 05 How you explain the kind of grief that lives in your bones? The kind that doesn't just visit, but it settles in and finds a home in your chest? Here's how I've tried explaining this in explaining their loss. Five Christmas mornings without their laughter. Five Thanksgivings with two empty chairs at the table. Dozens of family gatherings where their absence echoes louder than the conversations. Over two thousand mornings waking up to a world without them.
1:40:48 Speaker 05 I've watched seasons change, babies be born, and life move on in ways that they should have been a part of. Time has not made easier, only more surreal. But in those years, life did not stop. It kept going. I got married, a moment Jordan should have been there for. Crying alongside me with tears of happiness. Yet instead, I have a thread of sadness laced through my happiest moments. Carried by the weight of her missing from. Then came my babies, two beautiful boys. My oldest carries her name because this is all I could give to him of her, her name. Not her hugs, not her laugh, just the name, Jordan.
1:41:33 Speaker 05 I moved away because everywhere I turned, I saw them. And the neighborhood that we drove through blasting music and singing at the top of our lungs and the face. That look like theirs and memories that wouldn't let me breathe. I didn't move to start fresh. I moved to survive because staying felt like I was slowly being crushed under the weight of what could be. The city felt too loud and too quiet all at the same time. I couldn't heal in the same place that broke me, but leaving didn't make the pain stop. It just changed. I carry guilt some days for not being closer. I carry guilt for choosing space when I know my parents are still living at the center of it all.
1:42:16 Speaker 05 But I was drowning and that's what grief does. It isolates you. My parents now wake up every day to parent children who are grieving their mom and dad. All the while, they themselves grieve their own daughter and son-in-law. They do everything they can with grace and strength, but I know that they're tired. I know that they're heartbroken. I've watched them age faster than from grief. You've created a lifetime of pain for us. You have changed every tomorrow that was supposed to include them. And now all I'm left with are pictures and memories of them, sitting here trying to explain what it feels like to have your heart ripped out twice.
1:42:56 Speaker 05 Deserved birthdays, anniversaries, children, growth, peace, because they were worth more than just two names on two headstones. They were my family, my people, and now there is peace of me buried with them. For Jordan and Andre, I hope you remember them in every time you sleep because I remember them every second I'm awake.
1:43:19 Colin Brown? Here's Yolanda Tina Harrow, the sister of victim Arturo Benavides.
1:43:24 Speaker 06 My brother was a kind, sweet-hearted person. He was married to Patty for over 30 years and they never had children of their own. So all the nephews and nieces on both sides of our families were treated as their children. He did his best in contributing for all of them on special occasions such as birthdays, quinceañeras, graduations, school events, baskets for Easter, and gifts for Christmas. That's who he was. He gave a lending ear to all of those. So I I want you to imagine how much he spread himself to all in their lives without complaining.
1:44:06 Speaker 06 He was a very special person and very much loved by all and well-liked by those who just met him. So you can imagine the value of my brother's life that you took so heartlessly. I want you to imagine and understand how his wife, Patty, has been left alone without her partner for life. Now she lives alone in their home, full of memories that she cannot forget. Even though family does come around and stay with her for a while, it's not the same as her having her husband live with her. She is very lonely and is now going through health issues that have to do with a broken heart.
1:44:48 Speaker 06 As for me, I feel an empty space in my heart for him. But in this empty space, I still have room for forgiveness for you. At first, I was very angry at you, but God helped me to surpass this anger with forgiveness. I feel in my heart to hug you very tight, so you could feel my forgiveness, especially my loss. But I know it's not allowed.
1:45:18 Speaker 06 I want you to see and feel all of us who have been impacted by your actions that has brought us all closer with God's love, which shows you that this great city of El Paso is a very forgiving place to dwell in. If you would have come before to get to know our culture, you would have experienced what warm and good-hearted people us Hispanics are. We would have opened our doors to you to share a meal, breakfast, lunch, or dinner, Mexican-style. So then your ugly thoughts of us that have been instilled in you would have turned around. Now you have the rest of your life to live in loneliness, and in that loneliness, you will feel ours.
1:46:04 Speaker 06 You're so young to live this way, but that's the choice you made. I hope and pray that you repent and ask the Lord for forgiveness for your soul's sake. May God have mercy on your soul when your time comes, and I truly say this.
1:46:19 Courtney Brown? From the bottom of my heart. Following Yolanda's statement, the judge asked her, "Ma'am, would it truly bring you peace and comfort if you were to hug him?" She told him, "Yes," and the judge allowed her to do so. As Yolanda walked across the courtroom, Patrick's attorneys whispered to him. He looked a little confused, but he stood to his feet. And from there, Yolanda embraced him. Adriana, the wife of Ivan Manzano, did the same. They hugged the man who took everything from them. The man who took the life of their loved one, simply because of the color of their skin.
1:47:02 Courtney Brown? Their compassion for the gunman brought tears to many people in the courtroom that day.
1:47:08 Colin Brown? On May 7, 2025, Patrick Crusius was sent off to the Palage Facility in Palestine, Texas, where he will stay for the rest of his life. On the day that he left El Paso, there was a tangible relief felt throughout their community, knowing that this monster was gone for good. But all over the city, there are still reminders of that dark day. The Walmart where the shooting took place was renovated and eventually opened back up to the public. But for many of its patrons, they had to find a new grocery store as it was just too hard to go back. Eventually, the makeshift memorial that was made after the shooting came down. But of course, they erected a new one. Located in the south parking lot of the Cielo Vista Walmart,
1:47:52 Colin Brown? the store created the Grand Candela, a 30-foot-tall memorial that symbolizes an everlasting candle. There are also 23 illuminated arcs on the memorial, representing each victim. Leonardo Campos Jr., Marybel Hernandez Loja, David Alva Johnson, Ivan Filiberto Manzano, Jordan Anchondo, Andre Pablo Anchondo, Arturo Benavides, Javier Amir Rodriguez, Adolfo Saros Hernandez, Gloria Irma Marquez, Maria Eugenia Lagaretha Rothe, Elsa Mendoza de la Mora, Juan de Diaz Velasquez Charas, Maria Flores Raul Flores, Margy Record, Alexander Hoffman, Teresa Sanchez, Angelina Silva Englisby,
1:48:38 Colin Brown? Jorge Cavia Garcia, Luis Alfonso Juarez, and Guillermo Memo Garcia.
1:48:45 Colin Brown? In addition, another memorial was created at Jim Crouch Park. Artist Tino Ortega created seven large granite pillars arranged in the shape of a crown, with the name of each victim and a poem by local author Gris Munoz. Tino said, "I feel really excited to give the community a space to grieve and see the peace come together. I really believe in the idea of how we have a choice in this world to use our energy for good or for bad, and this is a reflection of using your energy for something positive." And I do have to say, I've also visited that memorial. I went late at night one night a few years ago when I was actually filming a documentary about Richard Ramirez for my
1:49:26 Colin Brown? YouTube channel. If you haven't seen that video, I actually had the privilege of interviewing one of Richard's childhood best friends. He brought a bunch of photos with that no one had ever seen of Richard. It was really interesting to hear his stories. And Richard Ramirez himself, the Night Stalker, has some pretty deep ties to El Paso. But for the end of that video, I visited the memorial to the Walmart shooting victims. At night, I brought some prayer candles with me. I lit those candles. I sat in solace in the dark for a little bit. I said a prayer. I put good energy into the memorial and towards
1:50:05 Colin Brown? the memories of all these victims. And once again, just absolutely bizarre that here in America, we have to build giant candles and pillars and makeshift grave sites that are lacking bodies to memorialize people who were murdered in cold blood, shopping for their groceries. And not just one person that was murdered, two people that were murdered, 23 people that were killed on an average day in an average city in America. Visiting memorials like that and locations of violence just show a person there is a pattern here.
1:50:45 Colin Brown? And to be frank, if we don't do something about this, nothing is ever going to change.
1:50:54 Courtney Brown? The people of El Paso will never forget August 3rd, 2019. The day that a cowardly man came into their town for the strict purpose of inciting fear, violence, and division. But as you've seen, that mission failed. This tragedy united the people of El Paso like never before. It revealed their resilience and strength. And finally, it showed us that in the face of hatred and evil, there is still goodness in the world. The compassion and love that the people of El Paso showed following this shooting is something that will never be forgotten.
1:51:35 Courtney Brown? It showed us that at the end of the day, no matter where we come from, we are all human. We all deserve to feel protected in our communities. And regardless of your immigration status, no one deserves to be a victim of gun violence. Since the shooting, the slogan "El Paso Strong" has become the city's motto, and they still have a long healing journey ahead of them. But that very strength in the heart of the city and its people will carry them through.
1:52:07 Colin Brown? For today's episode, we will be making a donation to the El Paso Victims Relief Fund, who support victims and survivors of those directly impacted by the August 3rd mass shooting. Hey, everybody, it's Colin here. Thank you so much for listening to the third part of this three-part series. Courtney and I are so glad to have everybody out there tuning in. Unbelievable, crazy to cover this story and, you know, to have been there right after the massacre and then to have visited the memorial years later. It's just still that same solemn energy, and I mean every word that I say in this episode, especially when it comes to the fact that something needs to change.
1:52:49 Colin Brown? I think people from both sides of the political aisle can agree on that because this is absolutely unacceptable stuff. And it's tragic, it's heartbreaking to cover these stories week after week. And just to think, you know, here in America, well, truly, we would never run out of these stories, even right now at this point in time, if there was never another mass shooting, we could still tell stories of mass shootings that have occurred here in America until the end of Courtney and I's days because there have already just been so many. But yeah, if you want to support the work that we do here on the show, please consider joining us on Patreon. If you want to join us on Patreon, you can get ad-free, early
1:53:32 Colin Brown? access to all of our episodes, especially with these one, two, three-part episode series. You can get access to the next parts of the series, sometimes a week, two weeks earlier than people on the main feed do. Also, if you love the show and you want more, for the higher tiers on Patreon, we have full-length bonus episodes of the show. We cover these cases in the exact same way that we do here on the main feed with sound design, you know, music, the same attention to detail. They're about the exact same length, too. Sometimes the ones on Patreon are even longer than the episodes that we release on the main feed. So you're definitely getting your money's worth if you love the show and you want to help support what we do. Supporting us on Patreon is a great way to do that. Also,
1:54:17 Colin Brown? don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Murder in America to see photos from every single case that we cover here on the show. And I know I've said it many times, but please be sure to leave us a five-star review wherever you're listening to the show, whether it's on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. We love reading those reviews. We take them into consideration, and we're just thankful to have so many people out there that tune in every week. It is truly a blessing. Anyways, y'all, thank you for tuning in. I will stop taking up too much of your time. I hope everybody has an absolutely incredible weekend. We will see you guys next week, and I'll catch y'all in the next one.
Previous EP. 218 - TEXAS: The El Paso Walmart Shooting (Pt. 2) Next EP 220 - MINNESOTA: The Most Infamous Murder Case In Minnesota History: The Abduction And Murder of Jacob Wetterling Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated