Stars Over New Orleans with Aliza Kelly

Spooky Season wouldn’t be complete without a visit from astrologer, author, and friend Aliza Kelly! She takes us on a cosmic deep dive to unravel another of history’s most chilling mysteries: the Axeman of New Orleans! We discuss the killer’s reign of terror, the haunting details surrounding the case, and how astrology offers cosmic perspective on this dark chapter in history.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Here's a quick podcast for all you true crime fans. The case of the missing Reese's. It was me at the store with my mouth. Motive, um, they're Reese's. What was I gonna do? Stop myself? Tune in next time to see if I do it again. Spoiler, I will. Wow, that had everything. Reese's, suspense, Reese's.

• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:11Speaker 01

  Carrie Anne Moss, Noah Reed, Clark Baco, and Hudson Williams star in this new AMC Plus series, Yaga. A twisted psychological thriller where women hold the power and nothing is quite what it seems. Phantasmag calls it spooky, sexy, and wildly atmospheric. Yaga premieres October 23rd only on AMC Plus. Learn more at amcplus.com. Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. I'm Alina.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  I'm Aliza.

• 1:38Speaker 01

  And this is a special episode of Morbid.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Aliza is back and as cool as ever.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  Oh, wow, wow, wow.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  I was gonna say better than ever, but you just remain cool. Yeah, it's true.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  Cool, I love that.

• 2:04Speaker 01

  She's wearing a brat skirt today.

• 2:05Speaker 02

  I am, yes, yes.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  Does it get any cooler than that? No.

• 2:08Speaker 02

  Does it get any midlife crisis than that?

• 2:10Speaker 01

  No. You're not there yet, babe. No way. You're not there yet.

• 2:14Speaker 02

  I don't know, the writing's on the wall. A brat skirt for no good reason, yes.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  The cutest midlife crisis ever.

• 2:20Speaker 02

  I was gonna say.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  As far as I'm concerned. Lean in, I'll take it.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Right, maybe the aesthetics of a midlife crisis are actually.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Where it's at, yeah.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  There's something there.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  I keep seeing this thing that is like, the older I get, the more I just like turn into my like 10 year old self again. Or like somebody my 10 year old self would have been obsessed with.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, that actually is true.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  I fully agree with that.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  As I've been doing this tour in the midst of this right now, obviously I have like a lot of sequiny things. Which is also like what I've been sourcing on D-Pop, on Poshmark. So I'm in this like sequin state of mind, which also means that like, for just regular getting together with someone for coffee, I'm now wearing like a sequin mini dress.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 2:57Speaker 02

  And like I realize as I'm, only as I'm coming in that I'm like, oh, it's giving mentee B.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  No. No, it's giving she is that bitch.

• 3:06Speaker 02

  It's giving 11 a.m.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Here's the thing, the world is burning, so we should all get our sequins out and wear them when we can. Everybody's too judgy anyways. Let everybody wear what they want to wear and be who they want to be.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  And you do that too. Wear your sequins. Yeah, wear whatever the fuck you want to wear.

• 3:22Speaker 02

  You at home too.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  I'm a place of wear your fucking leggings every single day.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  Wear whatever you want.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  Who cares?

• 3:28Speaker 01

  Don't save things. I think I'm gonna wear sequins to your show now.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, sequins, it turns out they really do look lovely under, in the light.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  On the lights, yeah.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  The twinkle is just like, and that's the 10 year old in me where I'm like, that's really sparkly.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:42Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 3:47Speaker 02

  And I can't keep my eyes off of it.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  No, you can't.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  If it sparkles, I'm looking.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 3:53Speaker 02

  Can't resist.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  You have Gemini in your chart, don't you?

• 3:56Speaker 02

  Um, I have Gemini, my fifth house is Gemini.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  So like my creative spark is Gemini coded. And I do feel that very much where like I feel, I mean, I feel like especially at this moment in my life, like, I'm very deep in the whimsy. I feel really locked in in fun, whimsy, frivolity.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:15Speaker 02

  Despite, you know, the collapse of Western civilization.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Humanity.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  I'm out there in sequins.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  No. You gotta lean into your.

• 4:23Speaker 02

  It's very cappella.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  I'm showing up to the end of the world whimsically. Yeah. That's what I'm doing.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  If there's ever a time, right?

• 4:30Speaker 01

  I'm bringing the whimsy with me. I think it's. We need it. It's what we have to do. We need more whimsy. It's our calling. You need to romanticize things whimsical.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe it's where we lost the plot.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  I think it is. Bring whimsy back.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  Bring whimsy back.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Bring fun and frivolity. Bring fringe back for the love of God.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  I love fringe.

• 4:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, bring it all back.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  Bring it all back. Some texture, some movement, a little sparkle, a little glisten, a little glitter.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Everyone just stop caring.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Just stop caring.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  I did a while ago.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's great.

• 5:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's an interesting time to be alive.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Sure is.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  I feel like, I mean, even in the, this is our third year doing this, every October spooky season. And I do feel like even in the past couple of years, it's like so much.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Has had to change, so much has changed.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  At least this is our third year, I love that this is our little tradition.

• 5:23Speaker 02

  I know, it's really the best.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  It's so fun.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  We started with the witch trials, right?

• 5:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Then we went to Jack the Ripper last year. And this year we're taking it to a place of the Axeman of New Orleans. New Orleans.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  And I told you both that I found out that I'm related to the, to one Corey Giles.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  That is the coolest claim. The coolest claim in history. The more weight.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  It's.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Like to be related to.

• 5:49Speaker 02

  The one who cursed Salem.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  And the first time that I went to Salem is when I, two years ago, when we did the show.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:55Speaker 02

  And I went there and I was like, oh, I am so locked in. I was like, I feel so alive.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  And that's why.

• 6:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  Did you already know at that point?

• 6:02Speaker 02

  No, I just found out like within the past year.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Okay, that's so crazy.

• 6:06Speaker 02

  So it's, it's really crazy. I mean, especially like the only guy. And then the guy who is like the one who put that curse on it, which is the curse that came true. Because now every year witches descend on Salem.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:19Speaker 02

  And the Puritans are all like flipping in their grave.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. And they had to move the sheriff's office away from the original location. Because they were all dying. Yeah. Until they moved it. Heart related issues. Yep.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  I think there was like only like one or two that didn't actually die from heart problems.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  It's fascinating. We're gonna revisit it soon, actually.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  The witch trials.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  It's so good.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  We have to go back.

• 6:41Speaker 02

  It's the gift that keeps on giving.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  It is.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's like an important, it's like a cautionary tale.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  It's a tale of like.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Especially now. I feel like it's very relevant now. Absolutely. I feel like Puritans have risen back up. Like we've got a puritanical group that has risen up. It's like Fear Street, they're coming back. They really are, it's scary.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  It is scary.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  And it's like, you know, this, this trying to turn these like hot goths into trad wives over and over. It's like, nobody needs it.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Don't do that.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Don't do it.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Stop it.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  Stop it, we don't need another trad wife.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  No. No. And also like trad wives, the OG trad wives did not want to be trad wives. No. So why are we embracing this? That's the thing, they were not choosing it. Fuck you bitches, I didn't want to gather those eggs. Yeah. I wanted to be on vacation. Yeah.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  Yes, no, I think that it's a, I feel like every, it's like a tale that needs to be told so that we can keep it fresh in the frontal lobe of the collective consciousness.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 7:39Speaker 02

  Of like, you see, you see what happened?

• 7:41Speaker 01

  What can happen? Don't let it happen again. No. Please don't let history repeat itself. But you were saying it kind of seems like history repeated itself a little bit with the Axeman case. And there's correlations between the last time you were here talking about Jack the Ripper.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, yeah. I mean, it's really interesting because the more that we look at from an astrological point of view, the more patterns start to emerge as well.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  And it's like very fascinating to see like, well, what are the correlations between these things? And I remember when we were talking about the Salem trials, a lot of the astrology was astrology that was about to happen.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  So a lot of the astrology of then, it was kind of like, oh, and watch out because we haven't had that since then.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:23Speaker 02

  And we've been in it, so no wonder it is also like we're dealing with similar things. And I've been thinking about the Jack the Ripper so much because there was that Neptune Pluto conjunction, super, super rare. We haven't had it since. And that sort of like the spooky, you know, mystery around death and, you know, what does it mean? And how do we sort of like turn fictionalize this very real thing that has happened and almost like turn it into a fantasy of a lore? And there's similar things in Axeman too.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  That makes so much so interesting. Because there are key points. So really quickly, just to give you guys like a quick overview before we dive into the astrology of the time. The Axeman of New Orleans started around like May 1918 and it ended in October of 1919. But it was absolutely brutal.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it was consistent too.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  It was super consistent. I think it was literally at one point almost a kill a month.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. And also at the same time during the killings in the fall of 1918, there was a 12 week stretch within everything where New Orleans was also the epicenter for the Spanish influenza.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  Hey.

• 9:29Speaker 01

  So it was just hopping off of New Orleans.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  And actually the city had a very high death rate in another round of flu that hit the fall of 1919. And that is when the Axeman hung up his ax.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  So some people wondered, did he get out of there because he knew the flu was coming? Or did the flu go after him? And he died of the flu?

• 9:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:50Speaker 03

  Maybe.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  But total, there were.

• 9:52Speaker 03

  He's in people's houses.

• 10:04Speaker 03

  He's high risk.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  But there were 12 total attacks, six confirmed deaths. It was gnarly.

• 10:09Speaker 03

  Brutal. Like, these were brutal attacks. People in bed, children. I mean, really bad.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  It seemed like he only, there's a theory that he only killed men when they were in the way of him killing a woman.

• 10:23Speaker 03

  And they were Italian Americans for the most part.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Yep, and a lot of grocers, which I find interesting.

• 10:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, there's, there's a lot here to work with, for sure.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, when I was going into it and going deep in, you know, like really living, laughing, loving. Thirty-five charts here or something.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  To me, it was like, why don't more people know about this case? It's so Jack the Ripper coded. But it was, I, I do believe because there was a pandemic going on.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 10:55Speaker 02

  And in the same way, like, you know, now that we have lived through it, we know that in those 2020, 2021 years, there were a lot of things that kind of just like got, didn't get as much attention as they would have. They got absorbed. It's like, we know how the news cycle works and it was the same going on then. It's like, obviously there's something brutal that's happening. That's really scary. But it's also really scary that everyone is getting sick around you and that everyone now needs to like go back into their homes and that all of these businesses are shutting down. And, you know, there's businesses that are going out and like, the whole city is not able to sustain itself. And yeah, it's horrible that there's someone coming into our houses, killing us, but like, it's one of a lot of things.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  Dealing with this.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  Yes. And I wonder if like that, the, the sort of the timing of it made this case sort of more, it just didn't get the same type of attention that Jack the Ripper did in its time and place.

• 11:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think, I think that's completely right. Because I think before, like when we first covered it, it was 2018.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  It was pre-pandemic.

• 11:56Speaker 03

  So it was pre-pandemic.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  We were like, what's that?

• 11:58Speaker 03

  We could look at it through a lens of just like, wow, that sounds crazy. Like that you had to like, businesses were shutting down and nobody could go to social gatherings. And like, there was curfews and all this stuff. And I remember reading it and being like, that must have been crazy. But you can only look at it from far away and say, wow, that sounds like it was crazy. So it just doesn't hit like it does now. Living through a pandemic, we can sit there and go, oh yeah, that makes total sense that this didn't pop off.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  The way it should have. Because we know how that was now. We're like, oh, that took over everything.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:30Speaker 03

  It's way worse than you could even conjure by just reading about it.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  And people don't want to talk about it.

• 12:35Speaker 03

  No.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  Right? Like, we still don't want to talk about what happened. Yeah, and like, we, we don't really know how to talk about it still. Like collectively, we don't have a shared language around it.

• 12:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  And that was the same then. Like, there, people did not want to talk about what had happened. So things that were going on in that time sort of just got swept up in like that, hmm, we don't do that era. Yeah, we don't talk about it.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  It's so crazy.

• 13:00Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  And you also have to think too, it was so different because there was no vaccines.

• 13:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  They were trying, but it wasn't there yet.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  But it's not like today where it's like, we got one right away.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  It was just like, you're screwed if you got this. So.

• 13:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:14Speaker 03

  And I think there were like mask bites. Like there was now, like there is now. Where like some people get mad about where, and it's so funny that like as humans, we've always been this way.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  It's so funny that as humans, we don't grow.

• 13:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, we just don't grow.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, and we also don't grow where we won't, where we don't look. You know what I mean?

• 13:32Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  And like hush, hush a time.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Yep. Yes. And it's like, if we don't, if, yeah, if we are like, don't want to deal with something, then we're also not like, it's not part of the collective language of it.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 13:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. And like, I remember during COVID, people were like, this is, this has never happened before. And I'm like, it actually did. It's happened a lot before and it happened like not that long ago, really, in like the grand scheme of things.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  Not to mention that obviously there was an epidemic in the eighties with AIDS.

• 14:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:02Speaker 02

  I'm like, that's really, really recent. But like, no, there's like just this smooth brain. Yeah, shut up.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 14:12Speaker 02

  This has never, ever happened. Are you sure?

• 14:15Speaker 03

  Unprecedented.

• 14:16Speaker 02

  You sure, guys? There are crazy parallels between what was going on then with the outbreak and our timing.

• 14:27Speaker 03

  Really?

• 14:27Speaker 02

  Yes. Like in a way where I'm like, I can't believe that I didn't look at that years ago.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 14:33Speaker 03

  Really?

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like, I'm pretty stunned that for some reason, some of these correlations have passed me by. Maybe because I wasn't looking.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  But like, looking at this, I'm like, um, okay. I mean, not to bury the lead here, so I'll just share. The same day that the, uh, the flu broke out in 1918 was the day that the epidemic was declared here in 2020. It was March 11th, March 11th, 1918, March 11th, 2020. Same exact day.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  That is spooky as hell.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:07Speaker 03

  That's weird.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Any planetary alignments that were the same?

• 15:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, there were. There were, there, obviously the sun was in the same place. It was the same day. It was, so watch out, March 11th, you know?

• 15:18Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  Which is insane. And I was looking at this and I was like, did I get this? Did I plug that in wrong? Like, could it have actually been the same? And I remember, because that's my anniversary with Luke. So we were out while like, it was like.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  Shut down. It's a, it's an epidemic. It's a pandemic. Like, we were getting the alerts during it over dinner.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  So I'll always remember that day. And when I saw this, I was like, did I like glitch out? But no, same. And then, yeah, we have, you know, it's a lot of the same outer planets that are being activated.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  That makes sense.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  Wow. So yeah, it's a, it's an interesting thing. And also interesting, the fact that we have these earlier attacks. And the story, because you know, the, this, the, the Axeman himself was never caught.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:06Speaker 02

  It's a cold case.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:08Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 16:09Speaker 02

  And beca, and there's these stories of attacks that had happened before 1918. I also had to pull the charts for them, obviously.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Obviously.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  And it's a very interesting sort of, you know, how, what is this story?

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Do we have a traveling man here?

• 16:24Speaker 02

  Yes. Do we have this sort of like, and this kind, it comes in before the outbreak, of course, changes.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  Then back again during the outbreak.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  So yeah, I, the first chart that I have for this, the first attack was on Harriet and August Crutey. On August 13th, 1910. There's a lot of, a lot of August attacks here.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 16:49Speaker 02

  Both of these people end up surviving, but like we'll hear with a lot, remember nothing.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  Which happens, I guess, when your head's being bashed with a max.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:59Speaker 02

  But they owned a grocery store. Uh, Harriet awoke to a man standing above her bed, holding a meat cleaver. So like a.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  A little different.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, a little different, but like maybe a proto ax.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:11Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  In this case, they, he did take money. He also took a canary.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  That was in a cage.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  That's shitty.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  So ran out with the money and the canary, let the canary go.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  A few blocks later, but then left, you know, left some signature things, left the meat cleaver, hopped the fence. You know, had like, lost the bloody clothes, like things that we'll see earlier. But this is not attributed to the Axeman.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  Interesting. And there's similarities and there's differences.

• 17:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  He did always leave the axe, it seemed.

• 17:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, he always left the weapon.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  He would leave bloody clothes. It seems like he would somehow change on the scene. But he never really took valuables. Like in New Orleans, it seems.

• 17:54Speaker 03

  New Orleans.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. So this, this is in New Orleans. And it's an interesting thing because with these first few attacks, it almost feels to me like there is a little trial and error as to what this person wants to do. You know, how do they, what is their style? Like, it's there in their like puberty era of attacking.

• 18:15Speaker 03

  Or he thinks he needs to take something to like stage it, but then he's like, that just adds time or it's an extra thing I don't need to do. That's not why I'm here.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:23Speaker 03

  To begin with.

• 18:23Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 18:24Speaker 03

  Kind of thing.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  I wonder why he would switch from a meat cleaver to an axe. Cause I almost feel like.

• 18:28Speaker 03

  Maybe it was just like.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Whatever's available.

• 18:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:31Speaker 02

  I also think that we end up finding more success with some weapons than others.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Makes sense.

• 18:37Speaker 03

  So they stick with one more than the other one.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Gonna inflict a lot more, for sure.

• 18:41Speaker 03

  And I think he finds an axe at one of the victims' houses, a couple of them. So I think he just maybe.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Makes do.

• 18:49Speaker 03

  Available.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's like, oh, I love an axe.

• 18:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's like, oh, I've done that before.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  If I see this, I'll grab that.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  When I was looking at the chart for this, one of the first things that I noticed was that we have a Neptune and Uranus opposition going on.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 19:06Speaker 02

  So this is another, this Uranus Neptune opposition is another one of these incredibly rare, um, very, very unusual transits that ha, that happens. It's something that occurs really very irregularly. You know, we're talking.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  Slow moving.

• 19:20Speaker 02

  So slow moving. Um, this is, we haven't had a Uranus Neptune opposition since this time.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  We also have a ton of planets that are at 22 degrees. Now, I recently have looked at the charts for the top five most notorious serial killers of the 20th century, because what else does one do?

• 19:41Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 19:42Speaker 02

  At their time.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  And the, this 22 degree point is present in a ton of their charts.

• 19:49Speaker 01

  And it doesn't matter what house. It's just 22 degrees in any house.

• 19:53Speaker 02

  And that was also the degree that Saturn and Pluto met in 2020, when the pandemic started.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  And in fact, it was in January, January 12th, that we had the sun, Saturn, Pluto, the south node, all at 22 degrees. And I remember looking at that and being like, 22, like.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  What's significant there? Yeah.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  And I see it across all of these charts is 22.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 20:20Speaker 02

  We have the moon at 22 degrees, Venus at 22 degrees, Uranus at 22 degrees of Capricorn, which is actually the same point that it starts during the pandemic. So there's this 22 that I'm sort of like planting the seed of, because we're actually gonna see it continue to unfold through all of these charts.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  And like, for anyone listening, when they're looking at their chart, like, I have 22.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Degrees.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  This doesn't necessarily mean that you are a killer or that you are going to be at the forefront of a of an upcoming attack.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  Doesn't mean you're not though.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  Not Martin Luther King. Right. Don't rest. You never know what's around the corner.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  Stay vigilant.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, stay vigilant. There are certain degrees in astrology that have certain energy associated with them.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  Oh, see, I didn't know that.

• 21:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  That's interesting.

• 21:13Speaker 02

  Yes, and it would seem to me that there's definitely a lot of pressure around this 22 degree point.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  Because it's ending the cycle, you think? Or nearing the end of a cycle?

• 21:24Speaker 02

  It seems to me, like, I mean, in numerology, 22 is considered to be one of these like master numbers where it has like a certain vibration around it. This repeating number sort of energy.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:36Speaker 02

  And it, I think that maybe it's, there's this, you know, each degree has sort of a different story. 29 is the anaritic degree, it's the end of the cycle.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  22 feels like it is almost like a point of, it's like a climax point.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  You know, it's like a point where things pop off.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  It's a point where things happen.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:55Speaker 02

  Yes. So we have this 22 number here, which we're gonna see, we're gonna sort of be chased by throughout all of these. And I also wanted to flag that I noticed that the sun and the south node were conjunct this evening of this initial attack. I've also noticed that the south node seems to be very, very present in charts of serial killers. And also in charts of attacks and charts of like the nights that things happen, the big days for something. And, you know, as a, someone who has a sun-south node conjunction in my own chart, like, I can attest to the fact that, like, we can have drama without murder.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  But there are just things that have a certain intensity to them. And this is one of them.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  So August 13th, we have this, this first attack. About a month later, there is this second attack, which is Concetta and Joseph Rosetto, and entering through an unlatched kitchen window. This is another case of a meat, a meat cleaver. Both survive, though they are disfigured from this. Joseph is blind in one eye. We see this continuation of this Uranus-Neptune opposition here. Again, this only happens every 170 years, so it's not gonna happen again until 2080. I don't even know. Yeah, like, I mean, we're So we're out.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  We're not gonna see this one.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  I can't, I can't do quick math.

• 23:30Speaker 02

  Some, some of us might still be kicking, others

• 23:33Speaker 01

  Probably be long gone.

• 23:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, long gone.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  We done did it, baby.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  And there also is this interesting sort of like grand cross that's being formed here between Jupiter, which is in Libra at this time, cardinal activation. So there's a lot of energy, but we don't get into some of the deeper signatures of the Axeman himself until we get into the history. Like, we go through time and the chronology a little bit more.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  Really, the, the, we, actually, the next year, June 27th, 1911, we have another attack. This one is on Joseph and Mary. We know them, those are

• 24:14Speaker 01

  We sure do.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Those are historical figures. Joseph and Mary, Mary is actually pregnant in this too.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  She's a 16-year-old pregnant woman, she survives, Joseph does not. But it's interesting, because even these attacks, like, these are being referred to as the Cleaver attacks. And they're sort of erratic. You know, it's, we have 1910s, we have a 1911, and then in 1912, it's Tony and Joanna Shambra. And this is a very, very important one, because this is similarly, you know, in their sleep, comes in at night, but this is with a gun. So whoever does this shoots them both at close range while they are asleep, while they're sleeping. These two also Italian grocers, successful merchants.

• 25:06Speaker 02

  And this one is definitely sort of flagged as, like, was this mafia related? Is this something that has to do with, like, an extortion gone wrong?

• 25:15Speaker 01

  Yep. Gives more of those vibes.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  It does. But this story actually ends up coming back around in the Axeman. Because this is Mrs. Tony.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  And this becomes sort of like the, the only time that we see the proper Axeman himself give a nod to any of these earlier attacks.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  But what do you guys think of these? We actually have a, a final one. Anna and Delina is that same year of, or no, many years later, comes back around. Like, what do you think about these sort of, like, erratic, earlier attacks from almost a decade before?

• 25:51Speaker 01

  It feels like it could be. Like, him trying it out. And like, kind of just failing and trying and fail, like, this feels like a trial and error.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  It definitely, it has that, it has that air to it, I would say. But at the same time, there, like, it was so violent back then, that it could be unrelated.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  It could just be a random.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  But, I don't know, there's something to it that feels

• 26:14Speaker 01

  It's because it's so frenzied. And like, you know, frenetic and like, not together, that it feels like it could be him, just like, early him.

• 26:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  You know?

• 26:23Speaker 02

  And there's some, and we'll, we'll get into this more, but, you know, in what was going on, who was it, who done it, really? And like, the mystery of it all, obviously, there's different theories, right? There's the theory that it was mafia-related, there's also this theory of what was called the Black Hand.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Which was this extortion ring that was going on, specifically targeting immigrants, Sicilian, Italian, successful merchants.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:51Speaker 02

  And they were basically, they would say, like, they would leave letters and be like, "Shut it down, give us the money, or you, we'll kill you, we'll kill your family." It's just that they didn't really kill the families.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  It was more the threat.

• 27:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was the threat.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  So like, these are obviously very extreme versions of this. But with Tony and Joanna in particular, you know, these were, you know, they were very successful merchants, they were successful grocers, they were shot, which has a little bit more of an association with some of the other more organized violence that was going on. But then, with Anna and Delina, which is December 22nd, 1917, so we jump five years later.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Wow, it's right before, like, the official Axeman starts.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  It starts with a gun, and it ends with an axe.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  So, what happens this night

• 27:42Speaker 01

  It's like, almost like he found, like, this is it.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  In the process, yes. Anna wakes up to see a shadowy figure over her husband, and he has a gun. And he basically sat, holding a gun to her, is like, "Shut up, or I'll kill you." I guess in the other hand, has an axe, bashing the husband over the head with this axe.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  And

• 28:06Speaker 01

  It's like, dude, why do you need both?

• 28:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  An axe would shut me the hell up.

• 28:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, seriously. On, on the way out of this house, after he's, like, bashed, doesn't take anything, but just like, is threatening, right? Like, crazy, whacks the 14-year-old, who's in another room, strikes the 13-year-old in an arm, right? So it's a 14-year-old gets bashed in the head, 13-year-old gets struck in the arm. But this is the first case where we see what ends up becoming the signature entry of chiseling through the door.

• 28:37Speaker 01

  Yep, like that bottom panel of the door. Thing ever. And the fact that there were some cases where people would wake up the next day and find their door chiseled in, and it just, like, was not, or it was too thick for the axe to get through.

• 28:49Speaker 02

  Like, they tried to.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  To know that you were that close to it.

• 28:51Speaker 02

  That he was trying to get in.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  And you do, like, the bottom panel, right? Yep, a panel.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  So it's

• 28:57Speaker 01

  I'd leave the state.

• 28:58Speaker 02

  It's crazy to me that in this, so this, this one was really notable to me.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  Because this December 22nd, 1917, and we do have a time, which is a delight for all of us, 3:00 AM.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 29:12Speaker 02

  The witching hour.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  Fantastic.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  We have this switch happen, where it almost feels like whoever is doing this finds their vibe. It's like, they find their flow, they're getting their flow state. Because they, they have, they're maybe gonna do it like they did in 1912 with the gun, but then they're like, "But I can do, I can make it even scarier."

• 29:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:36Speaker 02

  And more terrifying.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. By way of this blunt, sharp object, combo blunt and sharp.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  And, like, switches in the midst of it, and then we never see a gun again. And then, in the next attack, it's an Axeman attack.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Solely Axe.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  See, that feels, that feels like it right there. You never see the gun again.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  It feels like, I found it.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you don't really see missing items anymore, or anything like that. Because, like, it's like, he realized, like, I don't need to do that. Yeah. I could just I'm scary enough when I just bash their heads in.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  So, in this chart, we have some of the things that I'm going to end up, that really become notable for when this is, like, the crux of this, is this is really going on. So we have a south node, Pluto conjunction. And again, the south node is, is basically a past life. When we see the south node and the north node, which are triggered by eclipses, the south node speaks to where we have come from, karma, destiny, like, things that are sort of, you know, predate our existence.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  And it does give this sort of, like, dark, supernatural tone to it, especially when it is working directly with Pluto.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Pluto, yeah.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Pluto is the planet of the underworld.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  Oh, damn.

• 30:56Speaker 02

  So when Pluto is involved in a chart

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Death, death, death.

• 30:59Speaker 02

  It's death, death, death.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  Oh, shit.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  So we have this, and so to me, I have goosebumps thinking about, like, oh, whoever is doing this, like, finds their freaky underworld signature in the process of this attack.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  Which is so spot on for what seems to happen here.

• 31:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  Oh, and it's almost like Like past, past him coming into the, like this new life. You know what I mean?

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Totally. And like what was going on previously, you know, and we'll talk about some of the potential suspects for this. There really is just one.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, there's really not a lot. And I, it's a strong theory. It is pretty strong. The mafia connection I find interesting. I do think it's a possible mafia connection, but also like a very deeply mentally ill person.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  I think this is it. I think that this is somebody who was like, perhaps like conspiratorial.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:51Speaker 02

  Wrapped up in this. And then like vigilante is like, I can take, like you think you've sent threatening letters? Like what if we send threatening murders?

• 31:59Speaker 01

  That's the thing. When you were saying like threatening letters, like, you know, we're gonna kill your whole family, but we don't because we've scared you. It's almost like the one person who was involved in this that took it too far.

• 32:08Speaker 02

  Took it too far.

• 32:08Speaker 01

  And like took it. That actually did the thing. All the way. Yeah. When, when that was not actually the plan.

• 32:13Speaker 02

  No, and it was like not required even.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  No, they're like, you did way too much.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, like to be a criminal in this organization, like you didn't need to go that far.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  You did the most.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  You just didn't need to do that.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  You did the most. Right. And it seems like there's, you know, there's this erratic nature to it where like you couldn't say, you know, their first two are a month apart spooky, right? But then the next one is a year later. Then we have another one that's a year after that. So there's enough of this sort of like erratic timeline that it's not back to back. So people can start to sort of like relax.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  And distance.

• 32:46Speaker 02

  Forget.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Them away from it.

• 32:48Speaker 02

  And then it comes back around again.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  So until it all starts to come, you know, until it is in a quicker, since, what is the word that I'm looking for?

• 32:57Speaker 01

  Succession.

• 32:57Speaker 02

  Succession. Yes.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  Well, the interesting thing too, is that he actually went to prison for, I think it was at the end of 1911, like this main suspect here. It's, um, his real name was Frank Doc Mumfry, but he's went by the alias of Joseph Mumfry. So he may have been sent to prison, but then in the summer of 1918, when everything started back up again, he was paroled. So it really is. Feels pretty. Kind of lines up. It really does line up. And that only then speaks to those first attacks being legitimately him.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Like legitimately the axeman warmup.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. I have to say, his chart, dun, dun, dun.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  Oh, here he is.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  It, it fits in to the attacks in such a fascinating way.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  Including the fact that, uh, he has that 22 degree signature in his chart, obviously.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  Okay. I'm so interested by that.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  I know. Me too. It's, it's a more recent discovery that I've had. And, but it's like one of those where I'm like, this again?

• 33:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:56Speaker 02

  A pattern recognition bitch can't unsee it, you know?

• 33:59Speaker 01

  You can't see that. Well, and astrology is all about patterns.

• 34:02Speaker 02

  Exactly. So this suspect, um, you know, is, it, there's obviously some sort of, you know, if this is not verified, right? But what we have for a birthday for them is November 1st, 1875, which puts them as a Scorpio sun, uh, with a conjunction to Jupiter in Scorpio. So lots of Scorpio energy here. And most significantly, this chart for the attack on December 22nd, 1917 is a Scorpio rising. So this is very much the energy of like, oh, I'm locked in.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  I'm called to this.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  And I found it. I found that thing that I'm doing.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  And Jupiter's only going to expand on all that spooky scary energy.

• 34:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  Jupiter expands. This is so fun to sit between both of you right now. I'm like, yeah.

• 34:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  This is the students and then the, the real deal. Very interesting.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Another spooky thing in this, uh, Anna and Delina chart, uh, and this attack where I think that it is Frank Mumfry who finds his way, is that we were coming into a Neptune, a Saturn Neptune conjunction at this time. This only happens every 36 years. We just had one this year.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  Yep. Oh.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  So one of the signatures of 2026 is a Saturn Neptune conjunction in Aries. There was a Saturn Neptune conjunction happening at this time here too. Also in a fire sign in Le, and this was happening in Leo. So there is this sort of like drama, intensity. Um, pay attention to me. Like I need you to focus.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Theatrics.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  Theatrics. Like it's really about the sort of the dramatics of it. And I think that this is also what this person.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, yes. I think that this is also what our suspect is finding himself sort of like getting

• 35:52Speaker 02

  titillated by here. More so than the other ones. It's like, oh, I can chisel out this panel. I can leave a signature. I can scare all of these people. I don't even have to necessarily kill in order to be the scariest one.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  Because we're gonna see what happens when he kills and then doesn't kill in these subsequent attacks too.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:24Speaker 01

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• 40:04Speaker 02

  So then we have a Spanish flu rolling in.

• 40:07Speaker 03

  Fun.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  Here comes the influenza.

• 40:09Speaker 03

  Here it comes.

• 40:10Speaker 02

  March 4th, 1918, we are coming into an exact Neptune Saturn conjunction at this time.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  Neptune is at four degrees, Saturn is at eight degrees. They're retrogrades, they're going backwards and forwards here.

• 40:28Speaker 03

  Oh damn.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  But like, we very much have that tone of things are changing. Neptune is very much associated with like illusion and delusion, also with sickness. You know, Neptune is both like mental health, but it's also physical health.

• 40:45Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  So we have this sort of like, you know, what's coming around is this sort of foggy, shadowy mist sweeping over.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  Yes, and I think that, you know, and Neptune is one of the things that we saw in Jack the Ripper 2, a very active Neptune, which is like another sort of like mystery and like it's elusive and there's death, right?

• 41:08Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 41:08Speaker 02

  Pluto is, is making an in-conjunction to them. It's at three degrees of Cancer, so it's kind of like waiting in the wings, being activated in its own way as well. But most importantly, all of this is happening during Pisces season. And Pisces is ruled by Neptune.

• 41:25Speaker 03

  And super, super dreamy, but also delusions, addictions, mental health issues.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 41:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  And just like it did in 2020, this all started, this all started unraveling during Pisces season.

• 41:36Speaker 03

  Oh damn.

• 41:37Speaker 02

  It doesn't change the fact that when we have this first flu outbreak, it's March 11th, 1918. Which is, in fact, we can, we can fact check this, but it is the day that the pandemic is declared.

• 41:48Speaker 03

  Yes, you're correct.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  Which is crazy.

• 41:50Speaker 03

  That is crazy.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 41:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  So Neptune, the Saturn Neptune conjunction is the main signature of this, but the sun is, on this day, March 11th, 1918, we have a new moon in Pisces. It's giving, something is really wrong.

• 42:07Speaker 03

  And pay attention.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  Pay attention. On this day, we had 100 people sickened before noon, and this is when we know that this is not contained.

• 42:17Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  This is not going well.

• 42:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  So this is in the backdrop of the Axeman at this time. On May 23rd, 1918, we have the attack, which is really the first Axeman attack. My notes on this are plentiful.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  On Joseph and Catherine Maggio, May 23rd. So this is a Gemini season attack.

• 42:45Speaker 03

  Which is chaotic.

• 42:46Speaker 02

  Chaotic in its own right, yes. They were living, they, grocers lived above a grocery store. The bottom panel was knocked out with a chisel. And that is how this person came in and entered their home.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  This was an attack where we have, like, both are murdered, first of all. Throats were slit.

• 43:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, she was almost decapitated, wasn't she?

• 43:13Speaker 02

  Yes. This is one of, this is one of the most brutal murders.

• 43:18Speaker 03

  Of all.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Of all. We also have no looting, no, nothing was stolen, everything was totally intact.

• 43:25Speaker 03

  And there were jewels, money, all in plain sight, right there.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  The axe was found, there were bloody clothes on the scene from the murder. And significantly, chalk outside said, "Miss Maggio will sit up tonight like Mrs. Tony."

• 43:43Speaker 03

  That's so spooky.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  So spooky.

• 43:45Speaker 03

  Connected.

• 43:45Speaker 02

  And this is, I have goosebumps, but this is a direct reference to the attack that had happened with guns.

• 43:53Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 43:53Speaker 02

  And the only time that people...

• 43:55Speaker 03

  It's essentially saying, "I'm back."

• 43:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yes, "I'm back." And, and this is crazy because, you know, people are like, "Could it be the same person? That was with guns, this is with an axe." But they're directly alluding to it.

• 44:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, people change methods all the time.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  People grow.

• 44:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. And some of them don't, like, I think people think that serial killers always have one thing that they do. That's not always the case.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  No, a lot of times, there is a...

• 44:22Speaker 03

  A lot of times, they just...

• 44:22Speaker 01

  Evolution.

• 44:23Speaker 03

  Like, look at the Night Stalker. Like, he did tons of different things. Like, it's like, there's so many of them that they just take what's in front of them and will do whatever.

• 44:31Speaker 02

  Night Stalker, Pisces, double Pisces.

• 44:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  With that, with a 22 degree signature, yes.

• 44:36Speaker 03

  Oh my god.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  But we need to figure out the 22 of it all, this is gonna keep me up.

• 44:40Speaker 02

  I know, I know, I know, it's the...

• 44:42Speaker 03

  Significant.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  Significant.

• 44:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this is, this is such an interesting allusion, because it almost feels to me like, hey, I am, it's like saying, "I'm the same person."

• 44:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  You know, like, I know about what happened back in 1912.

• 44:57Speaker 03

  Right.

• 44:57Speaker 02

  It's 1918 now, like, I'm making a direct reference. Also, keep in mind, that was May 16th, 1912, this was May 23rd, 1918.

• 45:05Speaker 03

  Very close.

• 45:05Speaker 02

  So it was like, hey, like, let me lay this out for you. And people are like, "Doh, yo."

• 45:09Speaker 01

  "Could it be the same person?"

• 45:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  "Well, I don't know."

• 45:13Speaker 03

  Also, the sit up like Mrs. Tony, I'm like, "That is chilling."

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Chilling.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  So I did a little, I did a little looky-loo into it.

• 45:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  And what it is believed that that is a reference to is that a traditional wake or funeral,

• 45:31Speaker 02

  before, the night before this, you know, a funeral, there was a sort of a ceremonial practice of having your own private vigil, where the corpse would be on display and like propped up.

• 45:44Speaker 03

  Set up, yeah.

• 45:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. And this was something that would only be, take place sort of like in, you know, the privacy of a family.

• 45:51Speaker 03

  Right.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  But it was something that was known within especially Italian communities at this time.

• 45:59Speaker 03

  That makes so much sense now.

• 46:00Speaker 02

  So it also is giving, this is coming from inside, like, the call is coming from inside the house.

• 46:05Speaker 03

  Absolutely, it is.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  So maybe, you know, obviously, we have all of these Italian Americans who were the victims here, and there was thinking of like, "This is a racist person who is going after these." But this could also be somebody who is in the culture.

• 46:18Speaker 03

  In their own community.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  Yes. And this is a case where, at first, they were like, "Mrs. Tony, like, who the hell is Mrs. Tony?" No one had died recently of Mrs. Tony, but people in the neighborhood knew that Joanna was referred to as Mrs. Tony by customers.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  Oh. And that gives full-blown mafia right there.

• 46:41Speaker 03

  That really does.

• 46:42Speaker 02

  So this is someone who it's like, "Oh, I know Mrs...."

• 46:45Speaker 03

  They're very close at them.

• 46:45Speaker 02

  Yes, "I know, I knew this person."

• 46:47Speaker 03

  Yes. So they're either in, I would say they're either in that community.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 46:51Speaker 03

  Or they are someone who like has very close ties to that community, like is within it at times.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  And is maybe monitoring that community.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  But not necessarily like an Italian American themselves.

• 47:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 47:02Speaker 03

  Could be, it could be either, yeah.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  Yes. So the, and it's somebody who was very aware of the impact and loss from these earlier deaths.

• 47:13Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 47:13Speaker 02

  It was someone who was like, "Oh, like, here's a little reference point, remember how you lost a beloved community member?"

• 47:19Speaker 03

  Don't forget.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  Here's another loss.

• 47:21Speaker 03

  That was me.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  Which is so, so eerie. So diabolical. We have another south node active in this chart. It's at 22 degrees.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  Spooky.

• 47:32Speaker 02

  South node, 22 degrees of Gemini, it's making a conjunction to Jupiter and Gemini at 18 degrees.

• 47:39Speaker 03

  Expanding that spooky energy.

• 47:41Speaker 02

  Expanding the spooky energy. And then Saturn, Neptune are still conjunct, still adding this backdrop. Saturn is the original, like Pluto is a Grim Reaper, Pluto is death, Saturn is the OG death.

• 47:54Speaker 03

  The Grim Reaper.

• 47:55Speaker 02

  Yes. In, in Yor, our ancient astronomers did not, you know, before the telescope, we only believed that Saturn was the final planet in the solar system. It was the outer limit.

• 48:08Speaker 03

  Right.

• 48:08Speaker 02

  So Saturn is death, just because it's like, that's the end of the line.

• 48:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  And Saturn is the, represented as the, you know, the collection of the harvest. So we have the Sith, we have the sort of like, we're, we're reaping what we sow here. And the Grim Reaper aesthetically was modeled after Saturn and the archetypes of Saturn.

• 48:29Speaker 03

  That's my planet. That's your ruler.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  That's my planet.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  It's, yeah.

• 48:33Speaker 03

  It's a tough ruler.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  It's, me too.

• 48:35Speaker 03

  Rules with an iron fist, you know.

• 48:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, rules with an iron fist.

• 48:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, literally.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it's, there's definitely this sort of like haunted, spooky, you know, death-coded chart that was going on the night of this, not to mention it is a Scorpio moon that night. So we have this callback to potentially our suspect being, once again, activated. Yes.

• 49:08Speaker 02

  So yeah, so this is the first Axeman murder, they say.

• 49:13Speaker 03

  Officially, on the books.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  They say official, even though it's like, hello, he's like...

• 49:17Speaker 03

  He's calling back to another murder that he clearly committed.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  Yes, and he wants you to, he wants you to know he's back.

• 49:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 49:23Speaker 02

  And it feels like very much, and maybe this is because we have the flu coming in at this time, we also are still in the throes of World War I at this time.

• 49:33Speaker 03

  A lot going on.

• 49:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, a lot going on.

• 49:35Speaker 03

  Just a few things.

• 49:36Speaker 02

  And the drama of it, the Leo of it, is kind of like, "Hey, knock, knock, pay attention, did you forget me?" And people are like, "Yeah, that's scary, but also like..."

• 49:44Speaker 03

  But all of this, gestures broadly.

• 49:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:49Speaker 02

  So... The next month, we have another attack. And this is the attack on Louis and Harriet Lowe. This is, this is the mistress.

• 50:01Speaker 01

  Yes. Oh, yes. Yes.

• 50:03Speaker 02

  So this is an interesting one because we have a story here of after this attack, they both had initially survived. And Harriet, the mistress, keeps changing her story around who, who she believes had done it. At first, she's like, it's the neighbors. Then she's like, actually, it's the person I was having an affair with. It's the person who was sleeping next to me.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  Which is also like, wait, he bashed his own head?

• 50:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, like he bashed his own head. Police failed to understand that one. Yeah.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  But it's also really sad because she ends up, you know, she's very disfigured. She has like this horrible, you know, she's been attacked by an axe. And she has surgery the next year, which is, does, is a disaster. She ends up dying as a result of the surgery.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  So sad.

• 50:52Speaker 02

  So like, she is a victim. You know, she is a fatality, I should say, from this.

• 50:56Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  It's just not immediate.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  And in this chart, we have, again, we're still seeing that signature of Saturn and Neptune. And we start to get closer to what ends up becoming among the spookiest, ookiest signatures of them all, which is the Jupiter Pluto conjunction.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  Which, when we were talking about this case, you were like, is that a Jupiter Pluto conjunction? I saw.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  Yep. It was.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 51:27Speaker 02

  Jupiter, the planet of expansion, Pluto, the planet of death. When these two come together.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  It's not really a party. I was just gonna say, it's a party.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  Party time?

• 51:38Speaker 01

  Some kind of party.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  Well, I do refer to Jupiter as casino daddy, very lovingly.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  I love for us to imagine. I love, you know, one day I'm going to like, personify all of these planets. I'll cast them all.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. He's a one woman show. Please.

• 51:53Speaker 02

  But I love the idea of like, imagine Jupiter as, you know, you go to a casino and you see someone like Hawaiian shirt, tufts of hair, gold chains, sunglasses on.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Smoking a cig.

• 52:06Speaker 02

  Smoking a cig, like ladies on either arm, rolling it down, like, and then you're like, this, wow, like what a scene, but you're also like, kind of smelly. Like, when was the last time he showered?

• 52:17Speaker 01

  What's going on there?

• 52:18Speaker 02

  Like, does he even know what day it is?

• 52:19Speaker 01

  Is he living at the table? Jack Nicholson in, what is that movie? Witches of Eastwick?

• 52:25Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And I do have a new working theory that you can always tell someone who has, specifically a man I've been testing this theory with, someone with Sag in their Sun, Moon, or Rising because they love Hawaiian shirts. So go back through your social roster and see any Hawaiian shirt.

• 52:45Speaker 01

  Here's the thing. I kind of love a Hawaiian shirt and I am a Sag Rising. I don't wear them, but I can appreciate them. The one that I wore when I was a dad on Listener Tales, I fucking loved that shirt.

• 52:56Speaker 02

  So share with us, like, what is, as a Sag Rising, like, what is your draw to a Hawaiian shirt?

• 53:02Speaker 01

  It's just outrageous.

• 53:04Speaker 02

  This is it.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  It's just outrageous. There it is. Yes.

• 53:07Speaker 02

  I say that it is the, Sag just can't resist the intersection of like Kitchen Vegas.

• 53:12Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 53:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's irresistible.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  That's actually wild. Because my style sometimes, like, fully can admit, is a little tacky. And I, like, I, I fall into that. And they do say you're supposed to dress as you're rising.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  So. Damn.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, a little pitchy Vegas.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:29Speaker 02

  And.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  My rising's a Virgo. I gotta look that up. But it makes sense because you're drawn to like dark academia kind of looks.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  Oh, that's so true. That's so true.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  What is your rising again?

• 53:37Speaker 02

  Unfortunately, it's Capricorn Rising, and this is why, like, I can't seem to.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  That's not your style.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  I can't escape business casual.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I feel like you, you have like a fun funky way of dressing.

• 53:48Speaker 02

  Thanks. You know, it's, but if I see a blazer, I lock in so hard.

• 53:53Speaker 01

  You can't ever get me away from a blazer. I love a blazer. A blazer doesn't work on me, though. I will.

• 53:58Speaker 02

  I'm like haunted by a blazer.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Good for you. So many blazers.

• 54:02Speaker 02

  It's, it's.

• 54:03Speaker 01

  You're a Capricorn sun with a, with a Virgo rising, of course. Blazers are. You are a blazer. I was born in a blazer.

• 54:12Speaker 02

  So strongly related to that. Yes. I was, I feel like I can't, it's like, every time I get dressed, it's like I look in the closet and I'm like, is it, no, put it back.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  It's not a blazer, Dan. I hate it.

• 54:24Speaker 02

  But it, it really does. A blazer hates to see me coming because it knows that it's about to get rocked.

• 54:30Speaker 01

  Iconic. I think I was born in the Hawaiian shirt and a feather boa.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. Take me there.

• 54:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:38Speaker 02

  Take me to that room, that hospital bed. Yes.

• 54:42Speaker 01

  But circling back, so Jupiter.

• 54:44Speaker 02

  So Jupiter is ruled by, so Sag is ruled by Jupiter.

• 54:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:48Speaker 02

  So that is the correlation of Sag and Jupiter. So Jupiter is a go big, go home. So wherever it goes, it's more, more, more. It's excess. So when Jupiter is on Pluto, it's more, more, more excess.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  Death. Death.

• 55:02Speaker 02

  Death.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  And destruction.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  And that becomes, in addition to Saturn and Neptune, which is still going on through this whole time, because it's a very long, slow moving transit. Yes. We, we have then also Jupiter and Pluto coming into the mix.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  So here we have this attack. They, you know, there's, and, and we get into this sort of frenzy of like, who does it? Oh, we also have the south node at 22 degrees, of course. Why wouldn't we?

• 55:32Speaker 01

  Why, why not?

• 55:32Speaker 02

  Why not? Making a conjunction to Jupiter.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 55:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know. It's crazy. This 22 is wild.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  What does it mean?

• 55:40Speaker 02

  It means something is amiss. Simply something is amiss.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:45Speaker 02

  So then, in August, we have another attack. And this one is on Anna Schneider.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:54Speaker 02

  She's pregnant. She wakes up to a figure looming above her. Her axe, she'll later find, has gone missing. We have this Jupiter Pluto conjunction getting stronger and stronger by this point. Jupiter is at four degrees, Pluto is at five. They're coming together. Mars is obviously at 22 degrees because why wouldn't it be in a chart?

• 56:17Speaker 01

  And Mars is like, war, like, male energy, like. Oh, dang. Kind of toxic. Oh, no. In this case, I'm saying.

• 56:26Speaker 02

  Yes, a hundred percent. Yes. I mean, like, all of these things are sort of like, oh, you want to see the worst example of these planets coming together?

• 56:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're definitely at their faults here. Damn. They're in their flop era.

• 56:38Speaker 02

  Yes. They're in their flop.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  They're not exalted.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  So this is when, so she survives. She actually has her baby two days later. And these signatures, this Jupiter Pluto conjunction that we're moving to, also was going on in 2020, which is nuts.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  Hate that.

• 57:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that is another, one of those interesting signatures because remember, there's a pandemic happening here. Like, through this time, we also have this, this other horror that's happening, especially to New Orleans.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 57:15Speaker 02

  Which is that as we are getting deeper and deeper into this 1918, 1919, it's like New Orleans is getting more and more sort of like, the onslaught.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  And the death toll is only rising between these murders and the pandemic.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Yes. Like coinciding. Yeah. This is like plague era, you know? The amount of death. Yeah.

• 57:35Speaker 02

  A few days later, August 10th, Joseph Romano.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  Five days later.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Yes. So this is like, we've really heated up now.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's not even taking a breath. And he's an 80 year old, by the way. Joseph Romano. I know, that kills me.

• 57:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, so Joseph Romano, an 80 year old, lived with his nieces who heard this happening. They saw the attacker and described him as dark, tall, heavyset, black suit, slouch hat.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  Spooky as fuck. That's interesting. Spooky as fuck. Honestly, I just picture the, I can't think of his name, but he played the Axeman in American Horror Story.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 58:20Speaker 01

  His whole get up there. It's totally personified.

• 58:23Speaker 02

  Does he have a slouch hat?

• 58:24Speaker 01

  I can't remember if he has a slouch hat, but he's got that like, swanky man kind of vibe.

• 58:29Speaker 02

  Well, I was looking up, like, what is a slouch hat? And is it coming back around in style? Like, is it going to be the new fedora? I fear it won't. These are, but you know, but you'll know the hats.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  I'm looking it up.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  They're wide brimmed felt hats, and they are very functional. They were worn by people who worked outdoors a lot because they provided good like shade protection.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  Okay. They were also. A little floppier than a fedora.

• 58:56Speaker 02

  They also were worn by people, like vets wore them, people who were, who had been in the military. So they had this very sort of like functional quality to them, which is giving more working class than a top hat. And I don't know if Jack the Ripper, for example, like, you know, I feel like when we, do we have, do we know what he was wearing? Or is it mostly just through like the mythology?

• 59:25Speaker 01

  I think it is a lot of lore. We really don't know what he was wearing.

• 59:27Speaker 02

  Because I feel like when I think of Jack the Ripper, I'm thinking that like.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  The gentleman and the.

• 59:31Speaker 02

  And the top hat.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 59:33Speaker 02

  Here we have an instance of an actual hat being cited, but it is. Functional over fabulous.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:41Speaker 03

  He wasn't wearing a sludge hat in American Horror Story.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  No.

• 59:44Speaker 03

  It is the same guy that played Marlo in 30 Days a Night, though. I didn't know if you knew that.

• 59:49Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 59:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, he's great.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  So after, after this attack, you know, we have all of the signatures. We have the chiseled door. We have the axe left. We have a full-blown manhunt that goes on where we're like, this has gone too far. Finally. I mean, look at all of these incidents. And finally, they're like, we gotta do something.

• 1:00:14Speaker 03

  We should stop this.

• 1:00:15Speaker 02

  Which is also like, stop this man.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  Like, this is enough. This has been going on since 1910 at this point.

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  Like, you guys are just gonna let this happen?

• 1:00:25Speaker 03

  We're just gonna let people chisel people's back door open? He's coming into my house.

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:00:29Speaker 03

  Well, he doesn't kill me. He's gonna kill me. We're gonna infect each other.

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's coughing on me, bashing my head in.

• 1:00:34Speaker 03

  He's spreading shit around.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  It is so interesting to me that there is a pandemic going on.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  And he doesn't give a fuck.

• 1:00:40Speaker 03

  Because that was actually one of the things during the COVID pandemic that people were joking about. They were like, oh, there's gonna be so much less crime because no one wants to go into someone's house right now. Like, no one wants to get sick. COVID's so scary. But this guy just didn't give a fuck.

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  Which honestly does, like, almost solidify my belief that there is a level of mental illness here, that it's just not computing.

• 1:01:02Speaker 03

  Because you feel like most of, mostly, people would be like, yeah, I don't want to die of illness.

• 1:01:08Speaker 02

  He's not even taking anything.

• 1:01:10Speaker 03

  Not even considering it.

• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  He's not taking anything. He's just going in for, like, for the hell of it. Just to do this freaky shit.

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  And bashing people's heads open. I mean, I remember when, like, during COVID, you went to wear insane amounts of PP because it's like bloodborne, you know?

• 1:01:25Speaker 03

  Like, when I would do autopsies during the pandemic, we were in the literal, like, biohazard, like, full PP.

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  During the pandemic?

• 1:01:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. It was crazy. We were in so many levels of PE. It looked like we were like a bomb squad. It was insane.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. You would come home and you'd still have a face shield, like, imprinted on your face.

• 1:01:48Speaker 03

  In my face, like, yeah.

• 1:01:50Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  And you think about this guy, and he's going in, and obviously, he's getting covered in blood.

• 1:01:54Speaker 03

  Nobody's saying he's doing, he's wearing a mask either, so it's not like he's...

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  No one says that.

• 1:01:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  He's wearing, like, that's the other thing. He's wearing, like, suits and, you know, bloody clothes are found. It's just...

• 1:02:03Speaker 03

  He doesn't give a fuck.

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  He doesn't have any regard.

• 1:02:05Speaker 02

  Well, he started in 1910. He started before this.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:07Speaker 02

  And to me, like, I think we talked about this with Jack the Ripper 2, where there almost get, like, becomes this crescendo of like, catch me, fucking catch me, catch me, catch me. Like, what the fuck are you guys doing?

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, it's, and it's this, like, push and pull between, obviously, not wanting to actually stop because you have bloodlust and you're psychotic.

• 1:02:26Speaker 01

  You just can't.

• 1:02:27Speaker 02

  Yes, but also, like, you don't want to be ignored.

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  Like, you're making enough of a scene. Yeah, you want credit. You want the frenzy. You want the drama. You want, like, the sort of, you want a little attention for what you're doing.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  The letter.

• 1:02:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:02:41Speaker 03

  They always resort to a letter.

• 1:02:43Speaker 02

  Yes. So after this attack, there was this manhunt. And then, I, this was something when I listened back, and it's also crazy because this episode that you guys did when you first covered this was in 2018. And this was, we're talking about 1918.

• 1:02:58Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:02:59Speaker 02

  So when I kept doing my notes, I was like, eight, I'd write 18, and then I was like, my, 18, 19, 18, 20, 18. I'm like, which year? Which year?

• 1:03:06Speaker 03

  What am I referencing?

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, so in, so you had mentioned this in the, when you guys first covered this in 2018, but apparently, the next day, there was a sighting of this killer masquerading as a woman, walking around town. But like, why? Like, you know, so you know who the killer is?

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:03:27Speaker 02

  And you also know when the killer's in drag? Like, then who is it?

• 1:03:30Speaker 03

  So maybe we could arrest them then? Can we maybe stop them?

• 1:03:34Speaker 02

  I mean, like, you're just, like, titillated by this. So my friends are like, it's the killer, but it's also a lady.

• 1:03:38Speaker 03

  But it'd be kind of fun.

• 1:03:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, right.

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  I think people are just losing their shit.

• 1:03:42Speaker 02

  Losing.

• 1:03:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  We also, then, the same day, there's a person who finds the axe and a chisel outside of their door.

• 1:03:52Speaker 03

  You imagine.

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  No. Knowing that you were that close to having your head bashed in by a madman.

• 1:03:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  I'd leave this state.

• 1:03:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I would never sleep again.

• 1:04:00Speaker 02

  And this was the incident where they were like, oh, it's actually too thick for the chisel. So like, they started, and then they're like, I give up.

• 1:04:07Speaker 03

  I'd be so happy that I picked that door.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  Oh, I would buy fabulous. Give me 14 more of them.

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, this was a great day for, for doors.

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  That door.

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  A great day, a great day for the door business.

• 1:04:19Speaker 03

  Yes, that store was like, come here. We got them.

• 1:04:22Speaker 02

  We've got the door for you.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  So on this day of this attack, on this, on Joseph Romano, who died, who did die, we have sort of like the essence of a lot of these signatures that we've been tracking. We have Jupiter and Pluto in very, very close conjunction. We have the sun in Leo, 16 degrees, conjunct Saturn, that original Grim Reaper, and also Neptune, all in Leo. So to me, this makes sense, that we also find this sort of, like, frenzy around this of, I'm gonna, like, I'm going on a spree.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  Look at me.

• 1:04:57Speaker 02

  I'm going on a spree. Look at me. Catch me if you can. You can't catch me.

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:05:02Speaker 02

  And continuously through this month of August, we see more and more of these examples of, like, he tried to come in, there was something that blocked. The door was chiseled, no one was home. There was an axe on the steps. There was, there was a, in one case, there was a tomatoes that were blocking the door, so he couldn't come in.

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  Which is also really interesting, because if this is all the same person, back in the day, back in the old days, he did come in in other ways. He would come in through a unlocked door. He would come in through a window.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:05:34Speaker 02

  So why is now, he's like, if I can't make a little hole, I'm not coming?

• 1:05:39Speaker 03

  And I think it's because he's so connected to this signature now.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you're right.

• 1:05:43Speaker 03

  Like, I think before, he was so, he was fine with willy-nilly, and then he's like, this is my thing.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  This is who I am.

• 1:05:48Speaker 03

  If I can't come in that, that door, then it's not me. And they're, and maybe they won't know it's me. And they need to know it's me. So he has to get in that same way.

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  And maybe I won't get, like, the credit.

• 1:05:59Speaker 03

  I will get the credit for this one if I enter a different way.

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, this is the story of somebody who really wants to be known as the type of serial killer that he is.

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:12Speaker 02

  You know? And we're gonna get to the letter shortly. We're, we're coming up on it, which is obviously one of the most iconic parts of this story for so many reasons.

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:06:24Speaker 02

  But it also, you know, it's like, if this is the same person who started to, who took, you know, this extortion a little too far, and then was, like, killing when he could have just threatened. And then was shooting, and then realized, like, I can make it even scarier if I use an axe, and I can make it even scarier if I chisel my way in, then this is also someone who is like, I only am going to approach it through this sort of codified, haunted, spooky way.

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:06:53Speaker 02

  And I think that this killer knew, like, and aspired to be Jack the Ripper.

• 1:06:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I think that he was, he knew that story.

• 1:07:02Speaker 01

  I could see that.

• 1:07:03Speaker 02

  And wanted to become the next Jack the Ripper.

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  I could totally see that.

• 1:07:06Speaker 03

  It totally makes sense.

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  The letters have such a similar energy about them, like...

• 1:07:10Speaker 03

  Like, I come from hell.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And I'm a demon, and catch me if you can, la la la.

• 1:07:15Speaker 03

  They're like, kind of cheeky at times, where it's like, you know, so it, I feel like I could, and he knew Jack the Ripper found a signature and stuck with it.

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, stuck with it. Consistency.

• 1:07:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  You need that if you're gonna really leave your mark.

• 1:07:30Speaker 03

  Until that, like, grand finale with Mary Kelly. Like, that was really the only time he deviated.

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  And I think he just thought he found his calling. So he could not, he could not deviate, because this is the calling.

• 1:07:41Speaker 02

  And if this is a person who already is, like, mentally ill to begin with, and beginning this process of, like, oh, I'm gonna just kill instead of threaten.

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  It's a ritual.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  Yes. Then, like, they, it also shows how they sort of completely divorce this original idea of, like...

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  And by the end of this, like, we aren't targeting Italian grocers anymore.

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  No, we're just getting whoever.

• 1:08:03Speaker 02

  Completely lost the plot.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:05Speaker 02

  It starts as one thing, and then completely sort of, like, morphs into another.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, snowballs.

• 1:08:11Speaker 02

  So then things are quiet for a little bit, which is also so odd, is that we have these, like, seasons of this, these attacks.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  I almost wonder if he was either discouraged or nervous with the amount of times that he couldn't. Almost thought as a sign, like, with the amount of times he wasn't able to get through. You know?

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, if we're being honest, not to say that we want to have a perfect score of tallies, but he does not have a great kill score.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  No, it's half essentially. There's 12 attacks and six kills.

• 1:08:42Speaker 03

  And if he's in New Orleans, if he's from New Orleans, if he grew up there, he might take that stuff more like spiritually as a sign that like I need to take a step back.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  I think that's such a good point.

• 1:08:54Speaker 03

  It feels like that's so in the culture and so in where he grew up, if he grew up there, that that would be something that he might take into account.

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  And I think that links itself so much to the fact that he thinks he's a specter.

• 1:09:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, but he's not like of this mortal realm kind of thing.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, he could also be going into these like fugue states.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:15Speaker 02

  Where he's like in this sort of like hypnotic space of this.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  Which is very Neptune.

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  Very Neptune, very, very Neptune. And it also, it's like this, uh, I mean, I feel like there are some murderers through time where they'll take time off.

• 1:09:30Speaker 03

  Oh, for sure. Like a BTK.

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  Just gonna say those exact words.

• 1:09:33Speaker 03

  Took like 30 years off.

• 1:09:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it's sort of, and then like you go back to your normal life and you return to whatever it is that you're doing.

• 1:09:41Speaker 01

  Somehow you just bury that desire.

• 1:09:45Speaker 03

  I mean, he could have got a job. He could have got a family.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  He could have got sick, actually.

• 1:09:49Speaker 03

  He could have gotten sick.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:09:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. Something kept him from focusing on it.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  It wasn't a super long time.

• 1:09:54Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:09:55Speaker 01

  Long, long enough where it's weird, but.

• 1:09:58Speaker 02

  Well, back in March now, 1919, because we keep playing with these same times, which is so bizarre.

• 1:10:05Speaker 01

  Astrologically, really strange.

• 1:10:07Speaker 02

  March 9th, 1919, um, we have a case of Charles and Rosie. And this one is really, really sad. This is, you know, we have, what's interesting before I say why it is incredibly sad is that this case actually, uh, evokes the very, very first one that happened astrologically. With Harriet and August back in 1910, we had that Uranus Neptune opposition. In this case, we have a Saturn Uranus opposition. So it kind of like, it's like we're back in, you know, there are these patterns that keep emerging. That it seems like he keeps striking at the, at the epicenter of these different astrological signatures.

• 1:10:52Speaker 02

  Okay, this is a departure for a second, but I have to share it before I forget. So in the 1980s, there was this, um, study that came out and it was called something sensational, like the moon was full and nobody noticed. And the point of it was, it was this British scientist who basically said, um, people are not affected by the moon. And I'm going to prove it. And when I first started studying astrology, this was basically the only study around that that was circulating. And it was like, you know, I didn't, who likes a study like this? I'm like, nobody notices that there's a, like, this is crazy. I had a weird feeling about it. It felt like it was a little pointed. It had like some statement it was trying to make.

• 1:11:35Speaker 02

  I, so I, I knew about it. And then recently, when I was doing an episode for Astrology on the moon and the moon phases, I was like, oh, I wonder what's going on, like if there, if there's any other studies. Turns out that from the time that I started to practice astrology to now, that study has now been, um, challenged many, many times over.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  It should be.

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. And they're like, this person had an agenda. They were misogynistic in the studies that they were doing.

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  Misogynistic from the jump. I'm like, just on the surface.

• 1:12:05Speaker 02

  In the same way that you know intuitively that the moon affects people.

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  And the moon is mother.

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  And the moon is mother. And like, in the hospitals, they always, you know, doctors and nurses and attendees will always say, it's crazy on a full moon. And like, sure, it's anecdotal, but it's also like, our anecdotal experiences also are our lived experiences.

• 1:12:23Speaker 03

  It's also scientific. We're 80% water, like mostly, and then the moon controls the tide.

• 1:12:30Speaker 02

  Right. I mean, you don't have to, like, you don't have to continue to extrapolate on the rest of astrology just to verify the fact that the moon obviously is going to affect us as humans.

• 1:12:39Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:12:39Speaker 02

  We're animals.

• 1:12:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:40Speaker 02

  We have a different response. All animals respond to the moon differently.

• 1:12:44Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:12:45Speaker 02

  Hunting is different on a full moon than a new moon. Duh. The reason I bring it up is to say that in these new round of studies that have come out, they have found that, um, the moon in particular, with people with different types of, um, chemical sort of, people with different types of like chemistry in their brain, people who are bipolar, people who have schizophrenia, people who have these different conditions are more affected by the moon.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  That makes, that makes sense.

• 1:13:15Speaker 02

  Others, right? And to me, this is so interesting because it also is very much like, oh, what can we learn?

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:22Speaker 02

  By studying the way that different people's chemistry functions, than just sort of being like, we can't look at them, we have to other them and like, not pay any attention to people who are different than us, right? But actually, if we change our perspective and learn from people who have different chemistry than we do, we are probably going to find like incredible things about nature, the interconnectivity of like cycles, timing, how brains work in general. So I say all of that to say that this is, you know, perhaps our suspect here was also very much affected by seasons.

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:59Speaker 02

  By tidal changes, by astrological shifts that were happening.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:04Speaker 02

  Because as these things were sort of like ebbing and flowing and swelling and changing, he was also going through these different.

• 1:14:11Speaker 03

  These phases.

• 1:14:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, peaks and valleys of his own energy, his energetics, right?

• 1:14:17Speaker 01

  That's really fascinating.

• 1:14:18Speaker 03

  That is.

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• 1:16:54Speaker 02

  So in this, uh, attack on Charles and Rosie, this very sad one, Rose woke, Rose wakes up to her husband fighting with an intruder. She's holding her 18-month-old baby and she's pleading with this murderer to like stop and to leave them alone and to go away. And he swings at them and kills the baby. And he, but both of the adults, Charles and Rosie survive. So it is only the baby who dies in this case. And this is a very, you know, the chart for this is really intense. It's a Jupiter Pluto conjunction, very, very close, four and five degrees, so very exact.

• 1:17:39Speaker 02

  We have that Saturn Uranus opposition. Uranus is the planet that's associated with, um, shocking things, unexpected things, things that come out of nowhere, things that are not planned. I do not believe he planned to kill this baby. I think that this was a casualty of this frenzied moment.

• 1:17:59Speaker 03

  Like just collateral damage.

• 1:18:00Speaker 02

  Collateral damage. He was fighting with the, with Charles. We've never heard of a physical altercation between him and someone else before.

• 1:18:08Speaker 03

  That was unexpected.

• 1:18:09Speaker 02

  Unexpected. I think that's the Uranus of all of it. I think it just, there was something that like came out of nowhere. And it was right after this that he sends the letter.

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:18:18Speaker 02

  And I think that there is a direct correlation between this being in this like, oh shit. I'm really evil now. I've really done, I'm locked in. I am fully the devil.

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:18:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I killed.

• 1:18:30Speaker 03

  And he takes, he takes on the persona in that letter. Like he's like, I am from hell.

• 1:18:36Speaker 01

  He's very much does.

• 1:18:38Speaker 02

  So March 13th, when the sun is at 22 degrees of Pisces and Saturn is at 22 degrees of Leo, we have this, uh, letter.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  And it is incredibly iconic. I don't have it in front of me. I do. Oh, my God, please read it. Okay. Esteemed mortal, they have never caught me and they never will. They have never seen me for I am invisible. Even as the ether that surrounds your earth, I am not human being, but a spirit and a demon from the hottest hell. I am what you Orleanians, is that how you say that, Orleanians? I think so. I think. And your foolish police call the Axeman. When I see fit, I shall come and claim other victims. I alone know whom they shall be. I shall leave no clue except my bloody axe besmeared with blood and brains of he whom I have sent below to keep me company. If you wish, you may tell the police to be careful not to rile me. Of course, I am a reasonable spirit. Of course. Are you?

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  As you've shown. Yeah. Yeah. I take no offense at the way they have conducted their investigations in the past. In fact, they have been so utterly stupid as to not only amuse me, but His Satanic Majesty, Francis Joseph, et cetera. But tell them to beware. Let them not try to discover what I am, for it be better that they were never born than to incur the wrath of the Axeman. I don't think there is any need of such warning, for I feel sure the police will always dodge me as they have in the past. They're wise and know how to keep away from all harm. Undoubtedly, you Orleanians think of me as a most horrible murderer, which I am. But I could be much worse. Nailed it.

• 1:20:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  I am. Don't get it wrong. Don't get it twisted. Yeah, not try to claim anything else. But I could be much worse if I wanted to be. Yeah. If I wished, I could pay a visit to your city every night. At will, I could slay thousands of your best citizens, for I am in close relationship with the Angel of Death. Now, to be exact. Name dropping.

• 1:20:33Speaker 02

  A personal friend.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  Just saying, period. Now, to be exact, at twelve fifteen earthly time. My goodness. On next Tuesday night, I am going to pass over New Orleans. In my infinite mercy, I am going to make a little proposition to you people. Here it is. I am very fond of jazz music. As all demons are. And I swear by all the devils in the nether regions that every person shall be spared in whose home a jazz band is in full swing at the time I have just mentioned. If everyone has a jazz band going, well, then, so much better for you people. One thing is certain, and that is some of your people who do not jazz it on Tuesday night, if there be any, will get the ax. Well, as I am cold and crave the warmth of my native Tartarus,

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  and it is about time I leave your earthly home, I will cease my discourse. Hoping that thou wilt publish this, that it may go well with thee, I have been, am, and will be the worst spirit that existed, either in fact or realm of fancy. Tea. It's the, it's the jazz for me. It's the jazz.

• 1:21:40Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  Like, what? I'd also be, I wouldn't know what to do. I would jazz it. But it's like, is he setting you up? Possibly. If he's setting you up, like, like, play jazz and I won't come to your house, and then he's gonna go around to all the places playing jazz? Is it like a double bluff? Yeah. That is actually fucking terrifying. Because jazz is like loud and like. Jazzing. And jazzy. And it's like, that's scary. You're already scared. Now you're overstimulated. Drowning out sound. Making it easier for him to savage you. Approaching, come in your house, which might be exactly what he was waiting for. Valid. But I wouldn't know what to do. Personally, I feel I would jazz it. I would take my, my odds into my hands. I would play some light jazz. But it has to be in full swing.

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  It'll be in full swing.

• 1:22:27Speaker 02

  Full swing.

• 1:22:27Speaker 01

  It'll just be quietly in full swing.

• 1:22:29Speaker 02

  He said jazzy. Jazz it up. Jazz it out.

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  Hear him coming, though, because I'd have it light. And then when he comes in, jazz it up. And I'd be like, full swing, get up. All right. You promised by all the devils.

• 1:22:40Speaker 02

  To me, like, in, like, obviously, a much higher stakes way, it's giving the hocus pocus scene where all of the parents can't stop dancing.

• 1:22:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:22:49Speaker 02

  Like, it has that sort of, like, we're having fun, ha, ha, ha, ha.

• 1:22:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, everything's fine. Yeah.

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:56Speaker 01

  Or like in Widows Bay, Sunset Cocktails with Patricia. Yes. Yeah.

• 1:23:00Speaker 02

  I haven't seen Widows Bay.

• 1:23:01Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, you have to.

• 1:23:02Speaker 02

  I know. I know. I know. I know. I know.

• 1:23:05Speaker 01

  I know. I feel like a Widows Bay missionary. I'm just like running around telling everyone. Yeah. Continue spreading the good word. I watched the entire series in one day. We're rewatching it now. I'm about to.

• 1:23:16Speaker 02

  Oh, well, I'll hop on.

• 1:23:18Speaker 01

  You gotta hop on. It's so good.

• 1:23:21Speaker 02

  No, I, I, it has everything that I need.

• 1:23:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. And the vibe of it, it's like a comforting. It's so funny. Spooky but really funny vibe to.

• 1:23:31Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, I'm excited. I'm excited.

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  You want.

• 1:23:33Speaker 02

  What a wonderful thing to look forward to.

• 1:23:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:23:35Speaker 02

  Unlike.

• 1:23:37Speaker 01

  Unlike this.

• 1:23:37Speaker 02

  Unlike the March nineteenth.

• 1:23:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:39Speaker 02

  Well, twelve fifteen AM.

• 1:23:41Speaker 01

  Sort of worked out. Yeah. Many jazzed it. Many jazzed.

• 1:23:45Speaker 02

  Many jazzed, no one died.

• 1:23:46Speaker 01

  No one killed.

• 1:23:46Speaker 02

  But like this, okay, so this letter to me is everything.

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:51Speaker 02

  It is, it is my everything.

• 1:23:54Speaker 01

  There's so much to unpack.

• 1:23:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's, okay, so first of all, this is like a proto chat GPT. But why are we so erudite in this? Like, why are we so academic in this letter?

• 1:24:05Speaker 01

  And we float from like, from like a more modern speaking to like thee, thou shall.

• 1:24:10Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 1:24:10Speaker 01

  And you're like, wow. Immediately. Yeah, you're just like, wait a minute.

• 1:24:13Speaker 02

  And it's like, he's referencing like Greek mythology in it, and he's pulling all of these, like, you know, very highbrow, sophisticated.

• 1:24:23Speaker 01

  It's, I'm smarter than you.

• 1:24:24Speaker 02

  I'm smarter than you.

• 1:24:25Speaker 01

  I'm going back to Tartarus.

• 1:24:26Speaker 02

  Which is also like, okay, so then who is, is this really also who's doing the killings? Because, like, this is somebody who is definitely very well educated, or at least.

• 1:24:38Speaker 01

  They don't have something to make this up.

• 1:24:39Speaker 02

  Pull it together, like whip it together for a very well educated letter.

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:24:44Speaker 02

  And so maybe this is, I think there were some killings that were close to Tulane. Like, this could maybe.

• 1:24:50Speaker 01

  There were, yeah.

• 1:24:51Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 1:24:51Speaker 01

  A student.

• 1:24:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, there has like, maybe there's a university piece to it. Maybe it was a student, a professor.

• 1:24:56Speaker 01

  Alumni.

• 1:24:57Speaker 02

  Now, I'm just trying, I'm trying to do the detective's work here.

• 1:25:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, we have to solve this.

• 1:25:01Speaker 02

  But it is like specifically snobby, you know, and like very sort of like.

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  Very elitist sounding.

• 1:25:09Speaker 02

  In its language, which is also, you know, it's like that kind of changes the character of it. Not to mention, I mean, how do we even begin the jazz piece, right? The jazz piece is so bananas.

• 1:25:24Speaker 01

  It comes out of absolutely nowhere.

• 1:25:26Speaker 02

  No, there's not a single indication that we would find ourselves in a jazz moment.

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  I wonder if he likes jazz. Like, it was just like, let me tell you something.

• 1:25:34Speaker 02

  There's not, there's no records left.

• 1:25:36Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:25:36Speaker 02

  There's no music playing. There's no other allusion to jazz happening. And then suddenly, he's like, I love jazz.

• 1:25:43Speaker 01

  He's like, get to know me.

• 1:25:44Speaker 02

  A little about me.

• 1:25:44Speaker 01

  Get to know me.

• 1:25:45Speaker 02

  A little about me.

• 1:25:46Speaker 01

  A little bit about me. Like, you guys think you know me? You don't. I love jazz. Yeah. Yeah. It is interesting.

• 1:25:52Speaker 02

  I think that the, okay, so a few things that come to mind here. Okay, so first of all, like the astrology of this letter. So the sun at twenty-two degrees of Pisces, so twenty-two again, Pisces being the, you know, the siren song. There's a direct correlation between music and Pisces things.

• 1:26:10Speaker 01

  And Pisces is the arts.

• 1:26:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:26:12Speaker 01

  Oh, shit.

• 1:26:13Speaker 02

  Like Pisces.

• 1:26:14Speaker 01

  That's interesting.

• 1:26:15Speaker 02

  Loves music.

• 1:26:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:16Speaker 02

  Pisces energy is all about.

• 1:26:17Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 1:26:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:26:19Speaker 01

  That's weird.

• 1:26:19Speaker 02

  It's like the most associated with like specifically music of any other zodiac sign. And it's, a lot of this has to do with like the mythology of it and like the mermaids singing the sailors into their siren songs.

• 1:26:33Speaker 01

  Hell, yeah.

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  Put the boys on the ships.

• 1:26:35Speaker 01

  Let's get the boys on the ships.

• 1:26:37Speaker 02

  We still have Pluto Jupiter conjunction here, right? So that's loud, going on, haunting, bigger, bigger death, more, more, more. But then the moon and Saturn, Saturn also at twenty-two, of course, the moon and Saturn are conjunct in Leo. So we have those theatrics yet again, the drama, the razzle dazzle.

• 1:27:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. And the, I want to tell you something about myself.

• 1:27:02Speaker 02

  Yes, and let me tell.

• 1:27:04Speaker 01

  Leo is the main character.

• 1:27:05Speaker 02

  Main character.

• 1:27:05Speaker 01

  That's even weirder. It is weird. That he's like, make it about me. Play some jazz. I love jazz.

• 1:27:10Speaker 02

  So you, you may recall that my favorite thing of all time, previously, my previous favorite thing was the Jack the Ripper letter. I could not get enough of it. I was like, this is.

• 1:27:19Speaker 01

  It's insane.

• 1:27:20Speaker 02

  Iconic.

• 1:27:20Speaker 01

  I need to unpack it all. I can't believe it's real. I can't believe it happened, no matter who it was from.

• 1:27:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I obviously had to pull the chart for that, and my jaw dropped.

• 1:27:28Speaker 01

  Stop it, stop it. I'm so excited. I'm excited.

• 1:27:30Speaker 02

  Twenty-two Libra. So that was October fifteenth, eighteen eighty-eight, when the sun was at twenty-two Libra.

• 1:27:39Speaker 01

  And Libra, much like Leo, has a look at me, look at me energy.

• 1:27:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:27:42Speaker 01

  Main character energy.

• 1:27:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:27:44Speaker 01

  Character energy.

• 1:27:45Speaker 02

  The moon was in Pisces for the Jack the Ripper letter, so we have a similar Pisces drop here. And at the time that I have for this chart for Jack the Ripper, twenty-two degrees Sag.

• 1:27:59Speaker 01

  Stop. What are the odds of that?

• 1:28:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:28:02Speaker 01

  Like, it's everywhere. It's, the twenty-two is very fucking weird.

• 1:28:07Speaker 02

  I mean, it's.

• 1:28:07Speaker 01

  I'm gonna wake up in the middle of the night screaming.

• 1:28:09Speaker 02

  Twenty-two, twenty-two. So we have this sort of correlation of, oh, Saturn was also in Leo. So Saturn was in Leo in both of these letters, and that only happens every thirty-six years. So we have this, basically, the Jack the Ripper letter was having its Saturn return.

• 1:28:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, my God. What? That is insane.

• 1:28:38Speaker 02

  Crazy, right?

• 1:28:39Speaker 01

  That is insane. A thirty-year cycle.

• 1:28:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:28:44Speaker 01

  That is so fucking significant. You're a genius. Damn. You're an absolute astrology genius.

• 1:28:50Speaker 02

  Crazy. It's bananas, right?

• 1:28:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. If you don't think astrology is real, get the fuck out of here.

• 1:28:57Speaker 02

  We're done with you here.

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 1:29:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:29:00Speaker 01

  Come on. Damn. That's wild to me.

• 1:29:04Speaker 02

  So it was, it was this thirty, eighteen eighty-eight to nineteen nineteen, thirty-one.

• 1:29:09Speaker 01

  Wow. Interesting, interesting, interesting. Yeah. The completion of a cycle.

• 1:29:14Speaker 02

  Completion of a cycle, and this sort of like this continuation.

• 1:29:19Speaker 01

  I was just gonna say, I'm back again.

• 1:29:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, back again. So if you wanted to make an argument that this is actually supernatural, I think you could.

• 1:29:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:29:29Speaker 02

  You could absolutely say this really is the same entity.

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  Can you imagine?

• 1:29:35Speaker 02

  I mean, one is dated, one is from hell, right? It's Jack the Ripper.

• 1:29:39Speaker 01

  And the other references hell.

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  Whoa. I got the chills.

• 1:29:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:45Speaker 01

  And he dates the article, or the letter, by the way, hell, March thirteenth, nineteen nineteen. So he is essentially saying from hell. This is coming from. He just doesn't write from. From hell. But he writes. But it's there. Hell, as like the place where he's writing this from. That is so fucking wild to me.

• 1:30:03Speaker 03

  Bonkers.

• 1:30:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's so bonkers.

• 1:30:05Speaker 01

  That really is.

• 1:30:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:30:06Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:30:07Speaker 02

  So like you could, you could say, like, if you paranormal'd it.

• 1:30:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, you could make an argument.

• 1:30:12Speaker 02

  You could be like, oh, this is.

• 1:30:13Speaker 01

  Maybe there's an influence.

• 1:30:13Speaker 02

  This is the, this is sort of like a different manifestation of that same demonic evil energy.

• 1:30:20Speaker 01

  Well, maybe the supernatural force is truly just the planets.

• 1:30:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:24Speaker 01

  And their effect on us.

• 1:30:25Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 1:30:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:26Speaker 02

  Saturn himself.

• 1:30:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:28Speaker 02

  Or you could say that this is like the sort of, you know, the cycle of time that every 30 years, we have this sort of like somebody who gets possessed by the energy comes back around again.

• 1:30:39Speaker 01

  By this specific kind of energy.

• 1:30:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, or you could say that this is somebody who was losing their mind, found a signature, killed a baby, and was like, I'm the new Jack the Ripper.

• 1:30:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:52Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:30:52Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:30:53Speaker 02

  Like, who else is as evil as me?

• 1:30:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:56Speaker 02

  And I was researching, I was like, is, would this person have known of Jack the Ripper at this time? 100%.

• 1:31:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  Like, it was so, so widely known. Uh, the letter, they would have known the letter.

• 1:31:08Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:31:08Speaker 02

  Especially if this is somebody who is, um, plugged in and has like the resources.

• 1:31:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:14Speaker 02

  To be able to like, have the worldliness to know what was going on.

• 1:31:18Speaker 01

  Which they sound.

• 1:31:19Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:31:19Speaker 01

  A little worldly.

• 1:31:20Speaker 02

  They do.

• 1:31:21Speaker 01

  Cause what is Jack the Ripper, like, late 1880s?

• 1:31:23Speaker 02

  1888.

• 1:31:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, yeah, they would know.

• 1:31:27Speaker 02

  So, yeah, this is the, this is the Saturn return.

• 1:31:30Speaker 01

  The correlation there is crazy.

• 1:31:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's crazy.

• 1:31:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, I mean, and like just to, like, the 22 of it, the, the, the correlation of like the.

• 1:31:41Speaker 01

  The Pisces energy.

• 1:31:43Speaker 02

  The Pisces moon.

• 1:31:44Speaker 01

  The Leo energy.

• 1:31:45Speaker 02

  The Leo, um, the fact that we have Saturn, not just having a Saturn return, but also like the Saturn and Leo, like the dramatics of it.

• 1:31:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:31:52Speaker 02

  You know, of like the, and here is.

• 1:31:54Speaker 01

  The flair.

• 1:31:54Speaker 02

  The flair.

• 1:31:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:31:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, just like having, wanting to have like a little fun with this torture.

• 1:32:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:32:01Speaker 02

  So, obviously, everyone jazzes it out.

• 1:32:04Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:32:04Speaker 02

  Uh, nobody dies. And, uh, we then don't have another attack until.

• 1:32:10Speaker 01

  It's a while.

• 1:32:11Speaker 02

  August 10th again, which is the date of another attack.

• 1:32:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:32:15Speaker 02

  It's all August and Marches.

• 1:32:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:20Speaker 02

  You know, it's like August, and so beware the Ides of August, I guess.

• 1:32:23Speaker 01

  Beware.

• 1:32:25Speaker 02

  But, which is so interesting because it also points to this sort of like, what's going on in these seasons?

• 1:32:30Speaker 01

  Right, these cyclical.

• 1:32:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, these cyclical times.

• 1:32:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:32:34Speaker 02

  So, this, uh, this is Steve Boca, August 10th, 1919, who comes stumbling out of his home with a, uh, an axe wound in his head.

• 1:32:44Speaker 01

  Jesus.

• 1:32:45Speaker 02

  And stumbles to a friend's, who, the friend is at first like, I can fix him, and then is like, I can't.

• 1:32:50Speaker 01

  That's a lot. What a, what a confident friend.

• 1:32:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, we, we know, no one wants a friend like that.

• 1:32:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:55Speaker 03

  That's like, please take me to the hospital.

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  Please call emergency services right away.

• 1:32:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can't fix this.

• 1:32:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, don't do this yourself.

• 1:33:00Speaker 01

  I know you're good at sewing, but this is my style.

• 1:33:02Speaker 02

  This is my one and only.

• 1:33:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:04Speaker 02

  Um, so, at this point, we see, so Saturn is at the anoretic degree, it's at 29 degrees. Um, it's making a direct opposition from where it was when this whole, like, process began. So, we're like, really sort of in this, the finality of this story. You know, like, we're kind of like, yeah, we're like, sort of approaching the end, right? But this is a surviving victim, right? This is another victim that survives. Then, we have on September 3rd, so, uh, three weeks later, another attack on, uh, Sarah Laumann. When she was sleeping, this is a, this is a woman who was sleeping, just a 19-year-old, living alone,

• 1:33:49Speaker 02

  locked the doors, did all of these safe things, but here he is coming in through the window. So, this is not the typical.

• 1:33:57Speaker 01

  Call back again.

• 1:33:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. He's coming back full circle, right?

• 1:34:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. Which is very frenetic, it's like.

• 1:34:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:03Speaker 01

  I've already gone too far, I've killed a baby, I've written the letter, I haven't got attention, so maybe I can just go back to my OG ways.

• 1:34:09Speaker 03

  Loop it back around.

• 1:34:09Speaker 02

  Totally. It's also, we should note that the night before, someone did shoot at him. Um, someone shot at an intruder, but didn't get them, but didn't get the suspect. And then, the suspect had left all of their shit behind, so he left his chisel behind, so maybe he didn't have a chisel.

• 1:34:26Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:34:26Speaker 02

  Maybe he had forgotten his.

• 1:34:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe that was it.

• 1:34:29Speaker 02

  He didn't have enough time to.

• 1:34:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:31Speaker 03

  Get another chisel.

• 1:34:32Speaker 02

  Another chisel.

• 1:34:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, so he was like, well, I gotta do this, smart.

• 1:34:35Speaker 02

  You would think that they would start to look at the chisel records in the area.

• 1:34:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, who bought a chisel?

• 1:34:40Speaker 02

  Who is buying chisels?

• 1:34:41Speaker 01

  But I, I feel like they were so common back then for, like, different kinds of work, you know? Everybody had a chisel.

• 1:34:46Speaker 02

  I guess so, I guess, you know, don't go anywhere without your chisel.

• 1:34:49Speaker 01

  No, I wouldn't.

• 1:34:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, um, this is Mars, very heavily involved here. Mars is with Jupiter and, uh, Neptune now, we're moving into a Jupiter and Neptune in Leo movement. So, like, the planets are shifting as we get into this different dimension of, of this time, right? Like, and it does seem to me, as we get into these very final attacks, like, he is slowing down.

• 1:35:14Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:35:14Speaker 02

  Like, something is changing in the way that he's approaching them, which leads us to the final attack, which is so important.

• 1:35:23Speaker 01

  It's such a full circle.

• 1:35:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:35:27Speaker 02

  It's crazy, I have goosebumps knowing where this goes.

• 1:35:29Speaker 01

  It's very strange.

• 1:35:31Speaker 02

  Mike Pepitone. So, Mike Pepitone is killed in bed. He is the husband and father of six children, and his wife and children were in the room next to him. The wife comes in, sees his, her husband being brutally attacked, sees blood spilling and pouring everywhere. It is like, uh, the most horrific scene imaginable.

• 1:35:58Speaker 01

  He'd been hit 18 times.

• 1:36:00Speaker 02

  Evidently gets a good look.

• 1:36:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:03Speaker 02

  At who's doing it.

• 1:36:04Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:36:04Speaker 02

  And, I don't know why, I don't know how this keeps happening, I don't really know how he ends up exiting, like, how he.

• 1:36:12Speaker 01

  Tosses her to the side.

• 1:36:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, just like, I don't know what ends up happening with like, her looking, her seeing her husband, I don't know if he just like jumps out the window.

• 1:36:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:36:20Speaker 02

  Um, but this is the last murder.

• 1:36:24Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:36:25Speaker 02

  And what's interesting is that in 1910, which is the year that all of this started, Mike Pepitone's father, Peter, killed a man, killed a man, last name De Cristina. And Mike Pepitone then moved his grocery business into my, into De Cristina's place of business.

• 1:36:48Speaker 01

  Oh, sure.

• 1:36:48Speaker 02

  So, his father kills this guy.

• 1:36:51Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:36:51Speaker 02

  Moves his son in, and is like, this is a great spot in town, you're definitely gonna want it.

• 1:36:55Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 1:36:56Speaker 02

  1910 is the first murder.

• 1:36:58Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:36:58Speaker 02

  The first attack that we have from the Axemen.

• 1:37:01Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:37:01Speaker 02

  So, we literally go full circle.

• 1:37:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:04Speaker 02

  From Mike Pepitone, who is just, you know, who is this random person?

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  Oh, that's really fascinating.

• 1:37:10Speaker 02

  So, it loops around, which is, then, if you wanna contin, you know, think about there being some, like, more organized crime theories, or the Black Hand theory, like, it does seem to allude to that.

• 1:37:21Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:37:21Speaker 02

  That we would find ourselves sort of back in the storyline, and all of these people were casualties just to get to Mike Pepitone.

• 1:37:27Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, damn.

• 1:37:29Speaker 02

  But then, things get even crazier, because his widow, Esther, ends up moving to Los Angeles. Um, she's like, I can't stay in New Orleans, this was, I saw something so brutal, so horrible.

• 1:37:45Speaker 01

  This is just like, a year and a half later.

• 1:37:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, so January 1921, she's like, I'm, I'm going to another LA, I'm going to Los Angeles, California. Leaves, leaves Louisiana, and marries someone named Angelo Albano. And Angelo Albano happens to be the former business partner of one Joseph Mumfree. So, sometime in to their, uh, to this new relationship, her new husband goes missing. He's gone, and she's like, what the fuck, how does this keep happening? I have a horrible taste in men, or something. And on this night, December 5th, 1921, Joseph Mumfree comes into her home with a gun,

• 1:38:31Speaker 02

  and demands money, silence, all of these things, it's an extortion.

• 1:38:37Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:38:37Speaker 02

  And says, or I'm gonna kill you just like I did your husband. And she looks at him, and it's the man she saw in New Orleans.

• 1:38:45Speaker 01

  Just a year and a half before.

• 1:38:47Speaker 02

  Bashing her first husband's face in, and she takes her revolver and kills him. So she kills the suspect. She kills the axeman.

• 1:38:57Speaker 01

  And he is the best suspect of the entire story.

• 1:39:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, he absolutely is.

• 1:39:03Speaker 02

  And that

• 1:39:04Speaker 03

  And it stops.

• 1:39:05Speaker 02

  And then he stops forever after having continued for a decade, a whole decade.

• 1:39:10Speaker 01

  How insane is that? And the fact that it lines up with the completion of the cycle of the, what was it? Saturn Neptune conjunction?

• 1:39:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:39:21Speaker 01

  That's so weird.

• 1:39:22Speaker 03

  That's crazy.

• 1:39:23Speaker 01

  That's so strange.

• 1:39:25Speaker 02

  Yes, we, we sort of like, we found ourselves moving from one sort of like the intensity of that Jupiter Pluto like peak. Where like, you know, whoever is doing this is like, ha, ha, ha, you'll never catch me. I'm losing my mind. Not to mention that this last one, October 27th, 1919. If it is indeed Frank Doc Murphy, also known as Joseph Mumfry, also known as Leon Mumfry. Like he has all of these different aliases.

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:55Speaker 02

  He is a Scorpio and this last one was Scorpio season. Scorpio, the sun was in Scorpio. This suspect Frank Doc Mumfry has a Sagittarius moon. His last murder was when the moon was in Sagittarius and then he was killed in Sagittarius season. He was killed when the sun would have been on his moon. So like, it does look like it is this person. And the crazy thing is, is that I kind of think that it's all of it. Like I think that it was, there was organized crime. I think that there was the black hand extortion thing that was going on. And I also think that he was insane.

• 1:40:37Speaker 01

  And took it too far.

• 1:40:37Speaker 02

  And took it too far and then became obsessed with Jack the Ripper. And became obsessed with finding his own like signature scent.

• 1:40:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, for like a taste for blood.

• 1:40:47Speaker 02

  Yes, a taste for blood. And I think that at different crescendos of it, like killing the baby, he's like, I am crazy. I am the new, and then I, he, Jack the Ripper was having a Saturn return. So he could have also been possessed by the same fucking demon that was possessing Jack the Ripper.

• 1:41:08Speaker 01

  It's all so fascinating.

• 1:41:09Speaker 03

  That's crazy.

• 1:41:11Speaker 01

  Astrology is real.

• 1:41:12Speaker 03

  Holy shit.

• 1:41:12Speaker 01

  Astrology is so real.

• 1:41:14Speaker 03

  This was fucking fascinating.

• 1:41:17Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 1:41:18Speaker 03

  Like it just makes so much sense.

• 1:41:20Speaker 01

  It does. I think, I mean, he's literally the only suspect and the strongest suspect. And it all ends when he dies.

• 1:41:26Speaker 03

  That way. Yeah.

• 1:41:27Speaker 01

  And there's too many things that line up there.

• 1:41:29Speaker 03

  We've cracked the case here today.

• 1:41:30Speaker 02

  So I'm just going to share if, if this is indeed who did it, who done it? I'm going to share just a bit about his chart. So he would have been in his early 30s when it started. Right after his Saturn return and he would have died in his early 40s.

• 1:41:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:41:46Speaker 02

  That would have been sort of like, it would have happened, been happening in his 30s into his 40s. Which I think makes sense with like, you know, the physical stature that we understand this person to be. Strong, obviously like able to wiggle an axe around.

• 1:42:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:42:02Speaker 02

  He was born with Saturn Uranus opposition in his chart. Saturn at 19, Uranus at 19. This only happens every 45 years. So this was something like he died under that same sky. You know, like he died under those same conditions. Remember Uranus is shocking things, unexpected things. And Saturn is a grim reaper of swords, but it's also like consequences and responsibility.

• 1:42:30Speaker 01

  And you didn't learn your lessons.

• 1:42:31Speaker 02

  You didn't learn your lessons. And I think that there is a signature that we can see in this of sort of like things getting out of hand. And then also feeling like you are, you are God. You know, this feeling of being invincible, that you get to decide. And I love, you know, if this lore is all true, him being killed by the widow.

• 1:42:52Speaker 01

  Oh, it's poetic.

• 1:42:53Speaker 02

  Poetic justice. Truly, like it comes back around.

• 1:42:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:58Speaker 02

  In this like very, yes.

• 1:43:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:00Speaker 02

  Also, I mean, if you're like, what are the odds of that having happened? There was a very tight knit community of Italian merchants, Italian grocers, Italian immigrants. And I think that like, you know, we can imagine that this was happening to a community that didn't have resources. Like no, these people, a lot of them had money. They were doing very, very well. So the extortion wasn't just like, you know, you have this like small mom and pop. Like no, these were like people who were actually like business owners.

• 1:43:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:43:30Speaker 02

  So this continued to Los Angeles.

• 1:43:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:43:33Speaker 02

  You know, this community and these networks. So it's not just like she ends up in Los Angeles and it's like, how is she connected again? It's like, no, this was a tight knit

• 1:43:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:41Speaker 02

  Community spread across the United States.

• 1:43:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:43:45Speaker 02

  Where people knew each other and these people were also like, had the financial mobility to be in these different places as well.

• 1:43:52Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:43:53Speaker 02

  So, you know, the fact that we have this sort of like cross state story. And then I just love like sort of poetically us dropping off in Los Angeles and like, you wanted razzle dazzle. You wanted Leo. You wanted the drama, honey. Welcome to Hollywood, baby. Boom, killed in Hollywood.

• 1:44:11Speaker 01

  By the widow.

• 1:44:12Speaker 02

  Yes. And then we

• 1:44:12Speaker 01

  So dramatic.

• 1:44:13Speaker 02

  It sort of like ushers us into the golden age of Hollywood.

• 1:44:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:17Speaker 02

  Like we could literally start this story up again in like the Hollywood film noir of it all.

• 1:44:23Speaker 01

  That's so nuts.

• 1:44:24Speaker 02

  It's so crazy.

• 1:44:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, so interesting.

• 1:44:27Speaker 03

  Like why does that work so well?

• 1:44:28Speaker 02

  It works so well.

• 1:44:29Speaker 01

  Planets.

• 1:44:30Speaker 02

  So he was a sun in Scorpio with conjunct Jupiter. So sun Jupiter, Scorpio, Mercury in Scorpio, Venus in Scorpio.

• 1:44:39Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:44:39Speaker 02

  Big Scorpio stelling him really into the psychology, the depth, the darkness of it all. Jupiter expanding that he had Pluto at 22 degrees. 22 degrees of Taurus, which means it was opposite all of those Jupiter and sun connections that he had. So there was this like very dark and brooding sort of energy here. And he actually did have a fixed grand cross in his chart as well between Saturn, Uranus, Pluto, Jupiter, the sun. So there was, it makes sense that there kept being these big important Leo things happening in the sky. When he as a fixed grand cross person would have been activated by those.

• 1:45:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:45:24Speaker 02

  Because all of the same modality get activated by each other. So all cardinal signs, Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn get activated by each other. All fixed Taurus, Leo, Scorpio and Aquarius get activated by each other. And then all mutable Gemini, Virgo, Sag and Pisces get activated by each other. So the fact that like anything fixed happening, anything in Leo happening, going on, it's like boom, I'm in. Boom, I'm in because that signature is in his birth chart.

• 1:45:54Speaker 01

  Calling to him.

• 1:45:54Speaker 02

  It calls to him.

• 1:45:56Speaker 01

  That's really interesting.

• 1:45:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. It also just makes sense too, that he would have been so fascinated by Jack the Ripper with all the dark energy in his chart. And like the death and the, like the spooky, like it's interesting.

• 1:46:07Speaker 02

  Yes. And like what else? What's your, what's your comp? You know, like what's your reference point? It's like you killed a baby. Now fucking what dude?

• 1:46:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:46:15Speaker 02

  Look what you, look how far it's gone.

• 1:46:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:17Speaker 02

  And who else would you be other than this? But it still doesn't fully explain the jazz it out.

• 1:46:23Speaker 03

  No, it really doesn't.

• 1:46:24Speaker 02

  Other than the Pisces bit.

• 1:46:25Speaker 01

  The Pisces bit, yeah.

• 1:46:26Speaker 03

  I was going to say that's the only reason.

• 1:46:27Speaker 01

  New Orleans, you know?

• 1:46:29Speaker 02

  You're in New Orleans.

• 1:46:29Speaker 01

  That's the culture like.

• 1:46:30Speaker 02

  But do you think that he wanted to stop? You think that it was just like another spooky thing?

• 1:46:35Speaker 03

  Cause it feels like he's like, I'm going to, cause it'll create noise.

• 1:46:39Speaker 01

  And then not only that, it's a control thing.

• 1:46:41Speaker 03

  I can get you to do it. I can make you all put on this jazz music. If I, and then if I feel like I want to still come in your house, there's a lot of noise and I'll be able to.

• 1:46:49Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:46:50Speaker 03

  But if I don't feel like it, then you'll think that I was telling the truth. So it's like he wins either way.

• 1:46:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:46:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:46:56Speaker 03

  You know?

• 1:46:56Speaker 01

  I think the biggest part of it was the control. Like let's see if people, let's really just like have fun with this and see what I can do.

• 1:47:03Speaker 02

  Yes. Do you think that it was him who wrote the letter?

• 1:47:07Speaker 01

  I kind of do. Cause I find it interesting that there was no crime that night.

• 1:47:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:13Speaker 01

  You know, and then it took a little bit for him to, to start back up again.

• 1:47:17Speaker 03

  I could go either way.

• 1:47:18Speaker 02

  I wonder if he could have had some sort of like a, a recurring illness that he would be affected by. I wonder if he knew that like he wasn't going to be able, he didn't have the strength.

• 1:47:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:30Speaker 02

  To do something. And he's like, I'd love to hear, I'd love to walk around and hear music.

• 1:47:33Speaker 03

  Yeah. And he's like, and then I won't do anything.

• 1:47:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. Cause I won't be able to all be out anyway. So like

• 1:47:38Speaker 01

  And I'm taking back the control of like, I can't do this tonight, but it's only because I decided.

• 1:47:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:44Speaker 01

  It wasn't decided for me.

• 1:47:45Speaker 03

  I think that could be it.

• 1:47:46Speaker 02

  But it also is very demonic to have all of those like, you know, to be that highfalutin in a letter.

• 1:47:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:53Speaker 02

  Like that's, it's giving devil.

• 1:47:55Speaker 01

  It is absolutely.

• 1:47:56Speaker 03

  It absolutely is.

• 1:47:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:58Speaker 03

  It's a fascinating case. I do think it was Frank.

• 1:48:01Speaker 01

  I think it was.

• 1:48:02Speaker 02

  For sure. I think it had to be.

• 1:48:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:03Speaker 02

  There's too much overlap.

• 1:48:05Speaker 01

  Way too much overlap between the grocers, between it all starting.

• 1:48:10Speaker 03

  Suspect.

• 1:48:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, he really is.

• 1:48:12Speaker 03

  And I just love the poeticness of

• 1:48:14Speaker 01

  The poetic justice is insane.

• 1:48:16Speaker 03

  Saving the day.

• 1:48:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's too beautiful.

• 1:48:19Speaker 03

  It is.

• 1:48:20Speaker 01

  What are we going to do next October?

• 1:48:21Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:48:22Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, I, I, sky's the limit.

• 1:48:25Speaker 01

  Sky is the limit.

• 1:48:26Speaker 03

  No pun intended.

• 1:48:27Speaker 01

  I know. We'll have to think of something really good.

• 1:48:29Speaker 02

  Welcome to my life. Yeah, I wonder if, um, for listeners now, this would be the third Star is Over story. I wonder what they're itching.

• 1:48:39Speaker 03

  What are they hungry for?

• 1:48:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:41Speaker 03

  What do you guys want next?

• 1:48:42Speaker 01

  Cause this is so fun and interesting. I love doing these.

• 1:48:45Speaker 03

  And we have to have you back next October.

• 1:48:46Speaker 01

  It's literally just become a thing.

• 1:48:47Speaker 02

  I'll be here whether or not.

• 1:48:48Speaker 01

  It's tradition.

• 1:48:49Speaker 03

  Hey, I'm here.

• 1:48:52Speaker 01

  It's tradition now.

• 1:48:53Speaker 02

  I'm your new 22 degrees.

• 1:48:54Speaker 03

  All right. Well, you guys let us know in the comments. We'll chat amongst ourselves and we'll figure this out.

• 1:48:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:59Speaker 03

  All right. And now we're going to go do fun spooky stuff together.

• 1:49:02Speaker 01

  Hell yeah.

• 1:49:02Speaker 02

  Obviously.

• 1:49:03Speaker 03

  So we hope you keep listening and we hope you

• 1:49:06Speaker 01

  Keep it weird. But not so weird that you don't tune back in next October. Check out Eliza on tour. A few dates left, right?

• 1:49:15Speaker 02

  Yes, depending on when this comes out.

• 1:49:18Speaker 01

  Uh, Thursday.

• 1:49:19Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, I do.

• 1:49:22Speaker 01

  Tell us, tell us.

• 1:49:23Speaker 02

  I will be in Los Angeles on October 27th, San Francisco, October 28th. And then Beverly, right next to Salem on October 30th.

• 1:49:34Speaker 01

  Love it.

• 1:49:35Speaker 02

  Yes. So excited.

• 1:49:36Speaker 01

  All right, perfect. Well, go check out those dates and

• 1:49:39Speaker 02

  See you soon for the haunted tea party.

• 1:50:49Speaker 04

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• 1:51:30Speaker 04

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• 1:52:13Speaker 01

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