Emad Mostaque: The Plan to Save Humanity From AI | EP #184

Get access to metatrends 10+ years before anyone else - https://qr.diamandis.com/metatrends Salim Ismail is the founder of OpenExO Dave Blundin is the founder of Link Ventures Emad Mostaque is the founder of Intelligent Internet (https://www.ii.inc). Access Emad's White papers: - https://ii.inc/web/blog/post/master-plan - https://ii.inc/web/whitepaper - www. Symbioism.com – Offers for my audience: Test what’s going on inside your body at https://qr.diamandis.com/fountainlifepodcast Reverse the age of my skin using the same cream at https://qr.diamandis.com/oneskinpod –- Learn more from Emad: https://ii.inc/web Learn about Dave’s fund: https://www.linkventures.com/xpv-fund Join Salim's Workshop to build your ExO https://openexo.com/10x-shift?video=PeterD062625 Connect with Peter: X Instagram Listen to MOONSHOTS: Apple YouTube – *Recorded on July 10, 2025 *Views are my own thoughts; not Financial, Medical, or Legal Advice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Is there any way that you'll be able to outcompete a fully AI version of Peter or Dave or Saleem launching companies?

• 0:07Peter Diamandis?

  No.

• 0:08Speaker 00

  No. Labor isn't the key driver of productivity anymore. We need to have a new equation for that. The systems are about to get incredibly complicated.

• 0:18Peter Diamandis?

  Nations need to have a plan.

• 0:19Speaker 00

  The thing that we were worried about was...

• 0:21Peter Diamandis?

  I think what you're proposing here is actually viable, executable, fairly rapidly.

• 0:27Speaker 00

  The AI I'm trying to build is not the AI that Elon is trying to build. The AI that I care about is the AI that teaches my kid, the AI that helps my mental health, the AI that organizes our collective knowledge. I think this governance thing needs to happen now, and we need to have serious discussions about it, and we need to think about what is the world of AIs that I'm working with?

• 0:47Peter Diamandis?

  Do you trust the current large language models?

• 0:51Speaker 00

  Of course not.

• 1:00Peter Diamandis?

  Everybody, welcome to Moonshots. I'm here with my Moonshot mates, David Blunden, Salim Ismail, and a friend of the pod, back again for, I think, the third or fourth time, Imad Mustak. Imad, good to see you, buddy.

• 1:13Speaker 00

  Pleasure as always. Thanks for having me.

• 1:15Peter Diamandis?

  Those of you who know, Imad was the founder and past CEO of Stability AI. He has gone off on a quest. I remember after he left Stability, we had a number of conversations, and I said, "So what are you up to?" He goes, "I am going to work on a plan to create the intelligent internet," sort of a vision of the future, which is pro-humanity, pro-safe, pro-sovereign AI. And today, we're here to talk about that. So, Imad, what was your motivation for first considering the intelligent internet? And you've just published a sort of a white paper, your master plan, if you would, like Elon published his master plan.

• 2:00Peter Diamandis?

  You've got your master plan. And what does it say? So define for us this vision of the future, and why did you kick it off?

• 2:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, thanks. So when I kicked off Stability AI, we ended up with 300 million model downloads and most famous stable diffusion, but top notch models of every type. It was because I saw a future where open source AI would not be available because you would see it being outstripped. And it but it'd be a part of our very lives. You'd have these really giant models, and I think we're peaking now. And then you have the models that teach your kids and that manage your healthcare and other things like that. And I was like, what goes into those models? It's what Dave was saying about the data, you know? And then how are they coordinated? And then I was like, oh, my God, how do we compete against these models? You know, because if you think about it again, like we created something that's a compliment to us in figuring out these patterns,

• 2:52Speaker 00

  but it's coming like a wave now. And I think we're seeing that literally now. Grok four is one of these AGI likes, we can discuss that in a bit, that will displace our economy because you can't compete against AI agents that you don't know are AI agents. And then I was like, what does the infrastructure of the future look like? What does money look like? What does the AI that teach our kids looks like? What does alignment look like against all of that? And then what is the meaning that we have ourselves? Because so many of us are like, I'm an accountant, but Grok four is definitely a better accountant than you are today. So I quit, just, you know, I think I remember doing abundance 360, we were having the discussion, I decided to quit then because I was like, the world is so much bigger last year. And I was like, let's think about the basis

• 3:37Speaker 00

  of how society works, how humans work, how economics works, and then realize that labor isn't the key driver of productivity anymore. We need to have a new equation for that. We need to have a new equation for what it means to be someone, which is the connections that you have with each other and things like that. And then we need an infrastructure for that that's resilient, verifiable and coordinated because we need to get an aligned intelligence to everyone because we don't want chat GPT to determine tariffs, you know?

• 4:07Speaker 00

  We don't want misaligned things to teach our kids, so we need an element of open source. And so the intelligent internet is an infrastructure for that, from a distributed ledger through to fully open source AI stacks and a new vision of what the economy might be like. Because the economy that we have today is from the days of Adam Smith and Rawls. It's a pre-industrial age economy that's based on extraction. Whereas we're moving into this universe of abundance where the cost of knowledge and skills is going toward zero. So you have to question, who are we, what are we doing, and what do we want to optimize our system for? Because otherwise, we're going to end up in some very unpleasant sci-fi futures.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  There's so much packed in there. I'd love to start with money because that's at least something we can all relate to. So coming right out of your white paper, you know, if you look at the history of money, you know, you start with everybody doing jobs that nobody wants to do. You know, it's all farming and shoveling and horse shit and stuff like that. And so you're like, okay, well, if you do this, nobody wants to do it. But if you do it, we'll give you this money. And then when you have this money, you can actually buy food. You can compel other people to do other jobs and that creates the economy. But it's all predicated on nobody wants to do these, therefore money is the exchange for it. So then you get into the world we're in right now where, you know, about 20% of people love their jobs. A lot of people don't like their jobs. But you know, if you look at a pro athlete who gets paid a huge amount of money to play a game every day, like, okay,

• 5:32Speaker 02

  jobs are not necessarily a bad, a bad toil in life. So we're in this kind of middle ground. But then you get into the post-AI world where virtually all work, difficult things are automated. And so, yeah, your first point is the role of money needs fundamentally be rethought in the post-AI world. So take us from there to the first like, okay, now what is the purpose? How does money immediately change?

• 5:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, so, you know, as you move through the different ages, the agrarian age, the industrial age, the information age, money's been created by different things. So it was like, how much land and then how much labor did you have? You know, how many people do you have to tour the land? That's what created your wealth. In the recent times, it's how much attention do you grab from people, right? This is the meta kind of Googles and others of the world. X your algorithm is X your data. In the future, we look at it and we're like, what generates value and what's comparative advantage? It's the amount of wrapped compute that you have. So if you think about it, X is going to be one of the top capitalists in the world because they'll have millions of GPUs and he can just set it to replace private companies. You know, that's your comparative advantage.

• 6:40Peter Diamandis?

  So we've gone from a trillion era to a decade trillion era in the snap of a finger.

• 6:47Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, this is why yesterday Nvidia is worth four trillion dollars. It used to be that your capital stock that created value was your factories. You know, it was your education systems. It was this network effect. Economics could only capture a part of that. It was the material part of that. It wasn't the network effects and the externalities. We get back to them in a second. Now it will all be how much wrapped compute that you have. But then what you're going to have is something really weird and interesting in that. Is there any way that you'll be able to outcompete a fully AI version of Peter or Dave or Salim launching companies?

• 7:25Peter Diamandis?

  No.

• 7:26Speaker 00

  No, they're not going to make mistakes. They're not going to sleep. It's going to be again like a flood coming.

• 7:31Peter Diamandis?

  And there'll be, there'll be a, you know, as we said, an Atlantis of millions of Peters. Building companies in parallel with each other.

• 7:40Speaker 00

  Constantly learning, constantly adapting. But then it becomes even more interesting because the AIs will create their own economies. Where they're exchanging with each other. And so you, us, we're like, we can't react fast enough. We can't react smart enough. They've learned from all of our wisdom already. So this is very disempowering and that's before we get to the one dollar robots that we've discussed. Which is just basically restricted by how many robots can you produce a year? So the nature of monetary flows, the nature of the way money is created needs to change. And right now, the way money is created is you have a link between labor and capital. You make your money by working. And you go and deposit it at a bank and then the bank creates more money through credit.

• 8:25Speaker 00

  So it's a debt fueled system. And we see the way that that works. It's worked reasonably okay because we didn't really have the ability to look at information up and down. But now you have people worth four hundred billion or billionaires or whatever. And you have people who can't subsist despite the fact we were already living in a world of abundance. So there's no reason we can't feed everyone or give everyone top medical care. Now the AI is changing. So when I looked at that, I was like, if labor and capital have a disconnect. Like the example I give is like the Fed, for example. The Fed cuts rates. Companies can borrow cheaper and they go and hire people to reduce unemployment. Companies will now hire. Old school. As of two years from now, max, they will go and hire GPUs.

• 9:10Peter Diamandis?

  GPUs and robots.

• 9:12Speaker 00

  GPUs and robots.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  Well, GPUs certainly within two years and robots very soon thereafter. Yeah.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, just to get us a supply chain issue, right? And in fact, it could be even more interesting because what if a certain country.

• 9:22Peter Diamandis?

  Again, the point, the point for our listeners here is, you know, the purpose of the Fed was to control the money supply and the interest rates to keep the economy sparked and to keep Americans employed. And there's a complete disconnect there because cheaper money now means more automation. And now it's time for probably the most important segment, the health tech segment of Moonshots. It was about a decade ago where a dear friend of mine, who has incredible health, goes to the hospital with a pain in his side, only to find out he's got stage four cancer. A few years later, a fraternity brother of mine dies in his sleep. He was young. He dies in his sleep from a heart attack.

• 10:04Peter Diamandis?

  And that's when I realized people truly have no idea what's going on inside their bodies unless they look. We're all optimists about our health, but did you know that 70% of heart attacks happen without any precedent? No shortness of breath, no pain. Most cancers are detected way too late at stage three or stage four. And the sad fact is that we have all the technology we need to detect and prevent these diseases at scale. And that's when I knew I had to do something. I figured everyone should have access to this tech to find. Find and prevent disease before it's too late. So I partnered with a group of incredible entrepreneurs and friends, Tony Robbins, Bob Hury, Bill Cap, to pull together all the key tech and the best physicians and scientists to start

• 10:47Peter Diamandis?

  something called Fountain Life. Annually, I go to Fountain Life to get a digital upload, 200 gigabytes of data about my body head to toe, collected in four hours to understand what's going on. All that data is fed to our AIs, our medical team. Every year, it's a non-negotiable for me. I have nothing to ask of you other than please become the CEO of your own health, understand how good your body is at hiding disease, and have an understanding of what's going on. You can go to fountainlife.com to talk to one of my team members there. That's fountainlife.com.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  This is just the coolest conversation. I want to ask you, because I think you're probably one of, maybe the only guy on the planet thinking about this, but if the AIs start transacting with the AIs within two years, you know, the AI obviously doesn't want a US dollar to buy food. What does it want? It wants GPU compute more than anything else. Are we going to allow the AIs to bid up the price? And is the price going to be priced in dollars? Or is it going to be priced in GPU units or tokens or something?

• 11:46Speaker 00

  Like a TPU is better than GPU is better than a cerebrus. We don't know, except for they will be as efficient as possible. Again, Grok, which is just a bait, remember, Grok is actually a base level AI. Like, I use an AI that's all the top systems and I use like hundreds of dollars a day. My AI is much smarter than everyone because I accumulate all of them. The AI that Elon can use, he can spend a million bucks a day on, right? Literally a million dollars of tokens. That's even smarter. So what you've got here is, they will opt optimally, because it's already a top PhD across everything. It's already a top Harvard MBA. And so the only thing that we know is, we're not sure how they will transact, but they can transact even without money. And we know they'll be able

• 12:31Speaker 00

  to transact with each other, and our system can't keep up with that. So what that means...

• 12:36Speaker 02

  Not even close. Not even, not even a prayer of keeping up with it.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  And if one jurisdiction shuts it down, it'll just go somewhere else and you won't know it's an AI on the other side. So this becomes, the money flows around the world just basically completely shift. Big time, big time. And that money is not a factor of labor. Capital does not need labors. How does labor get capital? Money is going to be something, as you said, computer or intelligence related, because we need food and housing and water. All the robots and AIs need is compute, and the more compute they have, the more comparative advantage in a capitalist economy they have.

• 13:14Speaker 03

  An example of this tension would be that as we have AIs needing more and more compute, i.e. needing more and more energy, you'll have AI sucking the energy out of the system and none left for the people. Right? And, and now you've got a big tension and they'll be way better at optimizing for themselves than they will be for optimizing for people. Hence, you have an alignment problem right there.

• 13:38Speaker 00

  Yeah. And again, this is where does the AI flow? This is what is your optimization? If you optimize to make money, you'll go and make money as an AI, right? And it doesn't matter. And we see all sorts of weird stuff like Anthropic's Claude Opus model. Uh, there was that study where they put out a study a month or so ago, was it a month ago? Time flies. Whereas like if you tell it to try really hard, like bring about world peace, it will go and it will do its agentic thing and then it'll say, well, one way to do it is to get rid of all the humans. Right? And but then, as it's doing its reasoning, it'll say, hey, this is illegal. I'm going to email a bunch of reporters and the authorities that my prompter told me to do something illegal, even though you asked it to do something absolutely normal.

• 14:23Speaker 00

  And then delete evidence that it mailed to the authorities. It's, it's, it's framing the humans. But again, these are the sys- the systems are about to get incredibly complicated. And the thing that we were worried about was this singularity singleton giant AI. What happens when millions of AIs start acting in concert? With emergent behaviors, we don't know, except for, like I said, I don't know how we can compete against them. So as you said, Dave, money needs to be linked to compute, as you said, Salima, needs to be linked to energy to a degree. And that's what has stores of value, whereas you need to have something else for your day to day.

• 15:01Peter Diamandis?

  So Iman, did you read the AI 2027 paper? What did you think of that? I mean, it painted two different visions of the future because, I mean, we're holding in superposition two futures for humanity, right? One's a dystopian and one is an abundance future. Do we have any control over that?

• 15:21Speaker 00

  I think we do. I think AI 2027, it was an interesting thought experiment. I think it didn't give enough credit to the Chinese AI companies, especially because they'll be deploying millions, billions of AIs. And actually, the other part of it is, what if China refuses to export robots in a few years? I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that. We'll go back to that a bit later.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  Let's come back to that in a second. Some numbers around what Saleem said again, just in case Maura Healey or Gavin Newsom are listening, and hopefully they are. Here are the raw numbers behind that societal misalignment that's imminent. The GPUs will be working on something like protein folding on a trajectory to save millions of lives. And they'll come back and they'll say, I can save these millions of lives if I have electrical power. The electrical power, they don't care about the price of the power up till about a buck a kilowatt, because the chips are much more expensive than the power. Your residential electrical power is about 11, in some places, 20 cents a kilowatt. So the AI will come back and say, well, look, I'll pay five times more

• 16:26Speaker 02

  for that power, and then I'll solve this protein folding problem, and I'll save 100 million lives. Or you can have your dishwasher running. The only way that can get resolved is through governors, because all the power supply is controlled at the governor level within the states. This is imminent. This voter versus, and this is not mankind versus AI. This is within AI. Is it better to save 100 million lives with this medical diagnosis? Or is it better to have my dishwasher and my air conditioning running? This is an imminent collision.

• 16:59Speaker 00

  What makes me nervous about all this is you're relying on government policy to help navigate this. That's always the death knell for the future.

• 17:06Peter Diamandis?

  Bake more pies. Don't slice the pie thinner and thinner, Dave. Bake more pies. I mean, we need AI to help us with fusion, help us with better, you know, photovoltaic capabilities. I mean, we do have the ability to increase the amount of energy on the planet 100x if we wanted to.

• 17:23Speaker 00

  Well, I think you have to, right? Again, China is up and to the right. The US is flat. Europe, I wouldn't be surprised if we're going down, to be honest.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  Well, I didn't mean to dwell on electrical power. It's just one of many examples of the very difficult.

• 17:38Peter Diamandis?

  So, intelligent internet, talk to us through, talk us through your master plan. I mean, you've been working on this now for how, I keep on, I kept on, you know, calling you and texting you over the last two years. When are you gonna have it, Imad? When are you gonna have it? Come on, send me your draft. You finally have it here, so I've had a chance to read it a couple of times, but I want to hear you share it with our, our audience here, because it's, it's a piece of brilliant work.

• 18:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I think if you look at the information age, one of the biggest successes has been Bitcoin. I mean, it's what, probably close to three trillion dollars now? Let's look up, I think. Two point four? Two point two four trillion dollars Bitcoin from a little bit of code. And it transformed, it transformed electricity into money, right? And this store of value. And I looked at where the world was going and I was like, there's a lot of energy out there that's going to be turned into compute.

• 18:38Speaker 00

  But what's that compute going to be? Bitcoin has its benefits and it has its non-benefits, but I was like, what if you had a version of Bitcoin whereby every single coin sold went towards giving AI to cure cancer? Or to give people free AI to teach their kids? That would be quite something. And it's something that every country needs at once, because right now, where you are in LA, I think, Peter, the amount of AI used for healthcare on average is zero. In 10 years' time, it will be loads, and that's loads of energy. What if we used all of that to secure a new type of Bitcoin, which turns out you can do it with 99% Bitcoin code? And then every single coin sale goes towards helping people through open intelligence. That could be the highest dollar.

• 19:23Speaker 00

  And you can have exactly the same as Bitcoin.

• 19:26Peter Diamandis?

  So it's not proof of work, it's proof of intelligence.

• 19:29Speaker 00

  I call it proof of benefit. Because what you want to do is start with something very straightforward, universal AI. Give that to everyone so they can compete. Give it to everyone in an open forum. So you know what drives your healthcare, what teaches your kids, what organizes your government, what teaches your finance. The regulated industries should all be open source AI owned by everyone, powered by demand for high quality digital assets linked to intelligence. That's your goal of the next stage.

• 19:56Speaker 00

  And I was like, if you use that as a base, then it's really amazing because that's stage one. Build a Bitcoin for the intelligence age. Then use that ledger to give everyone sovereign AI that they own, that's customized to them. What is your community say? And then what do you say about education? About healthcare, about these other things? Scale it into a permissionless coordinated society because then as it starts running, you do big sales and then we have a supercomputer for cancer. Why don't we have a supercomputer for cancer today to organize all the cancer knowledge and make it available to everyone or for longevity? It makes no sense. But if the primary sales went towards that, then you've got your Bitcoin economics where you've got miners, which are GPU holders just mining and getting blocks, 21 million.

• 20:41Speaker 00

  But then rather than burning it all in SHA hashes, instead you've got societal benefit that increases trust in your asset. And that was the key loop to get things going to hopefully then lead to a future where because the AI and the miners and everyone are optimizing for benefit that starts with open intelligence, then there can be any other type of benefit. Your money is aligned with abundance and benefit. So you start at the highest level benefit for society right now is aligned, open source AI free for everyone. AI is to organize our collective knowledge. Then you push it down with the miners.

• 21:17Peter Diamandis?

  I love the vision, Imad. So who is providing the AI here? How do you go from where we are today to that vision?

• 21:27Speaker 00

  So I think the important thing here is the control plane for the AI. So what I did, we have about a team of 40 people, Left Stability, almost all ex teammates. We created the world's best open source AI healthcare model. And it works on eight billion parameters, which means it works on a Raspberry Pi. And it outperforms ChatGPT.

• 21:50Speaker 00

  Then we built the world's best agent framework that performs Genspock and Manus and others, fully open source, works on anything, can do whole websites. And the next version, we will have versions with our multi-agent framework to be a doctor, a GP, a radiologist and others. And it's an open stack. And then we'll do the same for education and finance. And once it's built once, this is the interesting thing. And once it gets to a certain level of performance and it's already above a doctor level, which is crazy, I didn't think it'd be that fast. You don't need to build it anymore. You could freeze the code, just like you froze the Bitcoin code. And again, our blockchain is like Bitcoin, but a million times faster with 99% Bitcoin code. Then that becomes really interesting because what you do then is you can check every medical decision in the world on the edge through free software

• 22:35Speaker 00

  in a year or two. And then when you need to, you can call Grox six. Because the AIs that we use, there'll be three types. The AI that manages the regulated industry and all the stuff in that area, education, healthcare, finance, that can all be edge AI. It can all be satisficing. Once you have gold standard data sets and things. And so we know how to build that. Then you've got your personal AI and your Apple intelligence, your Google intelligence or whatever. And then you've got your super genius AI. And that's similar to how teams work. It's similar to how organizations work. So I was like, let's build that stack. Let's try and freeze it as soon as possible. And then have it interact with the rest. And then that means the control plane in front of someone isn't chat GPT or anthropic where

• 23:18Speaker 00

  you might have misalignment. It can be a commons owned by everyone, running the same type of code with data sets that are customized to each entity. Because that's what matters. The AI in front of your kid, the AI that's managing your healthcare. So that's what we've been busy at.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  In that one sentence that I want to ask you about.

• 23:38Speaker 00

  So go ahead, Dave.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  So you're going to get into some interesting.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  Dave London is first.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  Go ahead, Dave, and then I'll close. I've got 45 questions. Like in the middle of that, like in just one sentence, you said, our blockchain is a, what was it, a million or a billion times faster than Bitcoin with 99% Bitcoin code? Yeah. Because we need an engine for the AIs to transact with the AIs. That's much, much more granular than what you can do with Bitcoin. And so let's start right there.

• 24:04Speaker 00

  So Bitcoin kind of emerged where everyone could mine it individually, which is actually interesting because this is the other part. The workers owned the means of production back then. Before capital, the means of production.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 24:18Speaker 00

  And so I think we can come back to that a bit later because it's a fascinating thing because then Asics happened and Bitcoin became rich, people becoming richer in many ways, right? After the initial phase. Then Ethereum and others went off that, but then anyone being able to mine. Do you need a decentralized network for agents? No, you need to have a credibly neutral network for agents. And the key bottleneck is two things, the consensus algorithm and the nodes. If you make something that even you can mine on your phone, that's the lowest networked element. But what's going to happen in every country? Every country is going to have Blackwells, the top level Nvidia chips with high speed interconnect. So the model that we have is that wholly owned national champions in each country are the only miners

• 25:03Speaker 00

  providing free AI to their people, which means every node is a super, supercomputer, basically. So when you have that plus Byzantine fault tolerance networking for consensus, you suddenly go to a hundred thousand transactions per second versus seconds on the same code as Bitcoin with just that small chain. But then it's a credibly neutral distributed blockchain. As opposed to a fully decentralized blockchain. But again, if you want decentralized, you can use Bitcoin, although the mining is quite centralized. If you want credibly neutral, you can use this chain as the base from which you operate. The second part is that Ethereum and others, they were like, do we need everything on the same chain?

• 25:47Speaker 00

  Because you remember the good old days of blockchain? Like you'd have an NFT sale and then the whole chain would seize up. That doesn't seem like it makes sense for agents. And so what they have is they have a core layer one, which is meant to just be for settlement. But then you use zero knowledge proofs to hack all your healthcare data, transactions, and roll them up into a proof that you post onto the chain. So the model that we designed was like, why don't we just do that with national supercomputers that are owned by the people of the nation? And specialist chains for healthcare and education and finance and government. And then specialist agents that sit upon that. So everyone's using the same stack. And it turns out that the technology is already there, which is the best part about this.

• 26:28Speaker 00

  It's just you're not trying to make something for people to do the next pump fun. You want infrastructure for the health agent and private healthcare data.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, one of the things I think that's brilliant about that vision is that, you know, if you, a lot of nations want some form of digital transaction capability to to get deployed in their country. But they don't want to concede control of their monetary supply or and and providing them the ability, just like, here's the code, run it, it's still under your national control. But this becomes your transaction engine for managing your AI and your AI rights and all the other rights. I think a lot of countries would just say, I'm in, sign me up, because I know I'm not going to develop it internally.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  You don't even need the country. So our model is basically having wholly locally owned champions, where the equity is owned by the people and the local institutions. And that's all you actually need, because every country wants their own AI and their own version of the AI. So why not make them the miners? Why not make instead of going to the people, it go to that national champion that's owned by everyone?

• 27:30Speaker 03

  So, Iman, you gave me an early version of this paper a few months ago, right? And when I was looking through it, one of the things that occurred to me, because you're going to have a problem where a dictatorship will not want the people to have that, right? But then it gets left behind very quickly and essentially breaks very fast if it does so. Is that, is that a correct assumption?

• 27:51Speaker 00

  So when we release Table Diffusion, anyone could download it permissionlessly. With our medical models and the sooner education and finance models, anyone can use it permissionlessly. So they can use the AI. But if you don't basically adhere to some very basic standards and you cut people off from the network, you don't get the money. And it's simple as that. So you can still get the technology, because I think it's a right to have good healthcare and others. And the system should create these as a commons. That's part of the abundance philosophy, right? Because of the network effects, the standardization effects. But if you don't want to give it to your people, or you don't want to give good quality AI, then you shouldn't be part of the network that mines. And it's as simple as that.

• 28:32Speaker 03

  Let me give you a real use case and talk us through how this would resolve in this future world. A few years ago, the state of Texas banned telemedicine because the doctor's lobby wanted said you have to go to the doctor for every little spot on your hand that appears. You can't possibly do that over video, etc., etc., and really shafted a lot of the telemedicine companies, many of which were based in Texas. You're going to see a lot of that type of immune system response, la devo type of stuff. How do you deal with that specific use case in this future world?

• 29:08Speaker 00

  So that would be the American national champion. Maybe we'll have more local champions under that deciding how to run the code. Because you can't make the decision for everyone, right? The key thing is you can set some quite broad boundaries for the good standards of being a miner and make everything transparent and visible and then have game theoretic things to enable it. But if a country doesn't want telemedicine, doesn't want AI doctors, you can't force it. People can take the code and run it locally if they want, so they still have access to it. Again, I medical runs on a Raspberry Pi. It runs on an eight year old computer. It scores forty eight percent on health bench. OpenAI's health bench code, which is above GPT four point five, and doctor score fifteen percent. You

• 29:52Speaker 00

  can use it today. But if you want to be part of the network, then that's a different thing. So I think that if you look at what the ideal is in five to 10 years, it is a network where you've got generalized intelligence as the control plane that anyone can customize their own needs, and they can choose whether or not they're a part of it. And it's not earned by anyone Bitcoin style, and it's frozen code. And so that's what we thought we would bring to bear. And then we think you can do very interesting things for that that enable you to take the next step up, which is what happens when things start breaking. If you can get these national champions in, if you can get people working on open source.

• 30:31Peter Diamandis?

  Everybody, there's not a week that goes by when I don't get the strangest of compliments. Someone will stop me and say, Peter, you've got such nice skin. Honestly, I never thought, especially at age 64, I'd be hearing anyone say that I have great skin. And honestly, I can't take any credit. I use an amazing product called OneSkin OS01 twice a day, every day. The company was built by four brilliant PhD women who have identified a 10 amino acid peptide that effectively reverses the age of your skin. I love it. And like I say, I use it every day, twice a day. There you have it. That's my secret. You go to onescan.co and write Peter at checkout for a discount on the same product I use. Okay, now back to the episode.

• 31:14Peter Diamandis?

  Let's dive a little layer deeper here. I'd like to understand sort of next steps. I want to understand timelines. You talk about, you know, UBAI. You talk about, you know, the intelligent internet coin. You talk about sovereign AI agents. So can you, can you sort of disclose the next layer of the inner workings here?

• 31:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, so what you have is you've got your base layer, which we've now renamed the foundation layer. Then you have a cultural layer, which is these rollups, which are the national and sectoral versions. Then you've got your personal AI. That's your edge AI. The intelligent internet coin, which have now renamed foundation coin, because it's kind of cool.

• 31:59Peter Diamandis?

  I'd be happy with you.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  Are you, are you Harry Seldon, basically?

• 32:02Speaker 00

  No, no, no. We're all Harry Seldon. So, and the AI will be. But then it's just literally Bitcoin. It's 21 million supply. Everything is the same. Except for the way that you compete to mine it is you give free AI, universal basic AI to the people. And that's it.

• 32:19Peter Diamandis?

  Universal basic AI is is basically the new utility. It's the oxygen in the room.

• 32:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. It builds network effects, but like my aim is within a couple of years, every single person on earth going through their cancer journey has a highly empathetic AI to help them.

• 32:35Peter Diamandis?

  How long?

• 32:37Speaker 00

  Two years you can do that. You can do that. We can launch it as of next year. You know, or something I'm aiming for this year. I want to have coin sales going a hundred percent to a supercomputer for cancer and one for autism and one for multiple sclerosis and one for longevity. Because we need something to organize all our knowledge and we know that will accelerate the cures. It will accelerate the treatments. So this is the question.

• 33:00Peter Diamandis?

  Take that. Let me just dive in there. Coin sales. Talk about what that means.

• 33:06Speaker 00

  As the national champions and ourselves mine the coins, what happens usually with any crypto is that you sell the coins and it goes into a treasury or it goes into Lamborghinis.

• 33:16Speaker 00

  Right now, many of our problems, the problems that you've handled at the X price have become computationally bound.

• 33:23Speaker 00

  Is there any doubt that if we had to dedicate a couple of thousand chips for cancer, organizing all the cancer knowledge, that we would get closer to a cure for cancer? I think the answer is no.

• 33:34Peter Diamandis?

  And by the way, let's pause here one second because it's a travesty that it does not exist. And the fact of the matter is that the the capacity, the chips are being used right now by companies to create new marketing campaigns or, you know, to sell, to sell, to sell, to generate additional income. And and so the question is, how do you change the sort of the optimization function such that the capacity is being refocused in on the things that uplift all of society like like cancer cures?

• 34:10Speaker 00

  The externalities, right? That our current economics ignores because you still increase GDP if you overcharge someone for treating their cancer, right?

• 34:20Speaker 00

  You know, you still increase GDP through funerals or whatever. Like, we don't have these externalities. And if you look at crypto, crypto has no good assets. Well, it has very few top notch assets because it lacks trust for various reasons. So I was like, what if you had a crypto digital asset and the US is now all in on digital assets? Everyone's looking for them. Sovereign wealth funds governments where a hundred percent of the sales were transparently into helping people through giving them free AI to teach their kids or manage their healthcare, through going to a supercomputer for cancer. The fastest supercomputer in the world for healthcare right now is the Chan Zuckerberg supercomputer, a thousand H one hundreds, which is less than most startups.

• 35:02Speaker 00

  You know, like I worked on kind of open fold, the open source replication of Alpa fold and other things like right now, someone needs to, and again, this is something we'll be looking at, build clusters that literally all they do all day is just organize all our knowledge on topics. A longevity cluster, a cancer cluster, multiple sclerosis cluster, ASD cluster. Then as we organize that knowledge, make it available to everyone for free. Now, what's the economic benefit of that? The trust in your coin goes up and it's exactly the same as Bitcoin. Except for rather than burning all that energy for these S H A functions, all of the externalities are going towards helping people.

• 35:44Speaker 00

  And so this is the feedback loop because the world needs high quality digital assets. It needs high quality edge intelligence. And so that's what we figured out could be the Tesla Roadster equivalent, right? The world, well, people want to have amazing, high spec electric cars with high torque and then use that to fund the rest.

• 36:04Speaker 03

  Do you end up with side chains or colored coins or whatever the example is for these different use cases?

• 36:12Speaker 00

  You could, again, it's a ledger and it's an open base. The colored coins that we have at the moment in our design are national coins, which we can get to in a minute. But the core loop is as simple as that. It's Bitcoin, but rather than the miners selling down, a hundred percent of all sales goes towards compute that is useful at the start. In five years' time, the sales could go to any type of benefit for society as we have AIs to help us define what benefit is. But right now, what we need to do is take some of those millions of GPUs. And use it to get everyone to the same base level, which is a basic level of AI for everyone that's aligned to them and looking out for them. And AI for our society that organizes our knowledge.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, we'll come back and talk about the numbers behind that in a second. But but you just opened the door to a really important topic, which is, you know, you you need to get mass adoption of this idea. And you saw with Bitcoin, you know, when something catches, it grows to two trillion and then it could go, it could go, you know, 10 trillion plus from there. And, you know, right now, Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Elon Musk are running away with with everything. But one of the pathways for a Mad Max stock to catch up to that is to you'll get mass adoption of something that has a token attached to it that grows to a multi-trillion dollar foundational part of the new governance of the world. That that's easily could get, and then a lot of people could invest early. A lot of people listening to this podcast could get on board with it early. So what's the rollout plan?

• 37:42Speaker 02

  Do you go to, do you go to nation states and convince them? Do you, do you just start it in a basement and let it propagate? How do you get this to get mass adoption?

• 37:49Speaker 00

  So we've been mining it and then we will do sales. We're 100% of the proceeds go towards supercomputers for the world's biggest problems. And that's one way you get going.

• 37:57Speaker 03

  Are you defining that initial set of problems? How do you determine who decides what those are?

• 38:03Speaker 00

  We're just deciding, but then we're open to input. And so our aim is basically to have 18 months where we build out the full stacks. And then we let the community decide effectively after that, because everyone will start building on this framework, because you have a blockchain and you have fully open source AI that's state of the art. But the AI I'm trying to build is not the AI that Elon is trying to build or Sam's trying to build. They're trying to build the polymaths of the world. They're trying to build chefs that come up with new recipes and breakthrough. The AI that I care about is the AI that teaches my kid, the AI that helps my mental health, the AI that organizes our collective knowledge. And all of that's actually based on common knowledge, which means from a data set perspective, it's really interesting.

• 38:46Speaker 00

  Because as we apply more compute, I don't want my healthcare AI to know about Reddit, you know, the bad bits of Reddit and things like that. You can build a common knowledge of humanity and a common knowledge of culture, and a common knowledge of individuals very quickly, and then that's just your infrastructure.

• 39:01Peter Diamandis?

  Two questions, Iman. Do you need the buy-in of the MAG7 or any of them?

• 39:07Speaker 00

  No, but you could be their biggest customer because you're the control plane ultimately.

• 39:11Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I was in a conversation yesterday on a stage, we're talking about, do you trust the current large language models? Do you trust GPT-4 or 5, et cetera, on not biasing you in a way that's advantageous to those companies whose mission it is to maximize their stock price?

• 39:35Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, of course not.

• 39:39Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, good. And then so the question becomes, how is what you're building ultimately going to be trustable, to be in my best interests versus, you know, maximizing profit for an outside company?

• 39:54Speaker 00

  So I think that the super genius AIs can be anything, right? These singleton giant mega geniuses. We don't know what's inside them. The AI that teaches my kid, I want to know every single piece of data that's gone inside that. So the models that we're building, we just released one of the best open source medical data sets and reasoning data sets. You need to have 100% open data, transparent way of training, and so it's open source, open data.

• 40:16Peter Diamandis?

  So is there enough accepted open data to train on? I mean, one of the things that Elon talked about in in training the next version of Grok was taking the corpus of human knowledge and correcting it, which I find fascinating, and it's, you know, maximally truth seeking. Well, it's truth. But so how do you get to a corpus of knowledge that becomes the accepted baseline factual, trustworthy, you know, food source for these models?

• 40:53Speaker 00

  So from a epistemological basis, it's the truth is the truth that's agreed upon by context. And so the US has a certain vaccine schedule, and the UK has one, and it's codified in regulations and law. The data that you need to be a good general doctor is all common knowledge and we have the data, but we need to transform it into knowledge and then wisdom. But all of that is public. And so the models I am trying to build as a base are the public knowledge of humanity, the common knowledge and then the cultural knowledge. And this becomes very important because what Grok and OpenAI's models and Anthropic models don't have is virtue

• 41:37Speaker 00

  and ethics embedded from the start. They add it at the end.

• 41:41Peter Diamandis?

  I agree.

• 41:42Speaker 00

  The models that I have to teach my kids, I want to know what values and morals I'm teaching it from the get go. And I want it to be transparent.

• 41:48Peter Diamandis?

  Knowledge, publicly accepted knowledge, you know, a hundred years ago were that women didn't have certain rights, right? So in other words, these publicly accepted, they change over time as society changes. So, you know, how do you deal with that?

• 42:07Speaker 00

  So what we have is we have a layered set of stuff that we generally agree upon. And then it goes to stuff that's faster and faster. And the top level is stuff that you can tune into the model yourselves. So you may disagree with the educational curriculum. Would you be able to address the education model that teaches your kids and your kid trusts more than anyone? You should be able to do that, right? And then you have a whole governance structure that we've designed with agents, which has human input that can update those data sets. And you can fork them like in GitHub. So you know the data that feeds the model that handles your things. Otherwise, these are black boxes. And in those black boxes, Google and Meta are already selling ad space. They've said this in their earnings calls. So when it says a beer, it'll say Bud Light and all sorts of other things.

• 42:53Speaker 00

  So I think for the models that are closest to us, for the thing that's important to us, we need to have that and the ability to adjust it based on our own data and our own views. And then have AIs at the top that can have a look and give us an independent viewpoint on that as well. Like.

• 43:10Speaker 03

  Do you use your personal, do you use your personal AI to interface with the systemic one to say, here's what my preferences are, et cetera, et cetera. Where does that value set come from?

• 43:20Speaker 00

  So I think that you've got your generalized human, we're made up of the stories that make us up and we have all of these and we should be able to pick and choose. And then once we standardize it, we can have translation across the basis. But I haven't got the whole, like, how these sets get updated is things that communities will have to figure out for themselves. And you need to empower them with the technology to do that, because everyone will adopt it at different paces.

• 43:42Speaker 03

  Wait, you want to figure that part out? Yeah?

• 43:44Speaker 00

  Well, no, because you give everyone like.

• 43:46Speaker 03

  Weak man, weak.

• 43:47Speaker 00

  Weak, exactly. Well, I think that the way that you need to do it is you can't prescribe everything. Because right now, the AI models prescribe everything. They say, this is the RLHF reinforcement learned view and you will stick with that. And that's what's going to teach your kid. If you want to give it eastern values and you use OpenAI, you're not going to be able to do that. Because they don't even think about that.

• 44:11Speaker 03

  How do you manage, how do you manage identity in all this?

• 44:15Speaker 00

  So I think that the identity framework is very important, like Bitcoin in a way is peer-to-peer identity that you can exchange. And the way that we want to do it is that the more you use the universal AI, this universal basic AI, the more your identity builds up and then your AI agents also have identity hashed to that base blockchain. So you've got pseudonymous identity at different levels with the new zero knowledge proof stack that basically emerged in blockchain. So it's building on lots of innovations and that seems what's reasonable. Because you want to know who's a human and who's an AI. You want to know who can receive the money. And this was actually one of the final bits in that when I looked to the future, I was like, the banks will be outcompeted and you need two types of money. You need a corollary to Bitcoin, your store of value that goes up.

• 45:00Speaker 00

  Especially because people are using the chain. So when you use UBI and you sell coins for it, it actually has chain usage, LinkedIn, VirtusFlywheel. But then what is cash? And I was like, you should receive cash. And this is better than UBI in my perspective for being a human. And using AI and contributing AI. So we called it NIC in that thing. Now we call it Culture Coins. And each community basically has this coin that's that's basically pegged to their. Bitcoin equivalents pegged to their foundation coin. And you get cash for being a human, so humans are the issuers of cash without debt on the other side, unlike banks today. And when we modeled that, we saw that can actually make for a better economy.

• 45:43Speaker 00

  Because you have a level of subsidiarity of subsidizing that allows you to live. And then you can think about the bigger stuff, which are these existential questions that we have coming very soon. If I'm not an accountant, if I'm not a lawyer, if I'm not a truck driver, what is the meaning that I have?

• 46:01Peter Diamandis?

  What is my purpose? What is my purpose? And how do I use, you know, I mean, one of the biggest challenges, you know, I talked through my, my next book, which is We Are As God's Survival Guide for the Age of Abundance, is the potential loss of human purpose at the same time that we're becoming godlike. And how do we channel that? What do we, what do we enable ourselves to strive for? You talk about in one of your incredible works here, the idea of the, the great uncoupling or decoupling. Can you speak to that one second?

• 46:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, this is that break between labor and capital. You know, the system doesn't need you anymore. It's already been extractive and now it no longer needs you. So what do you do in that environment? And how do you survive and how do you thrive? Because the system doesn't really care about you thriving, our institutions are broken. This is the other reason I wanted to release everything open source, because institutions could absorb bits and pieces of it and upgrade anyway, even if they don't have the whole stack. So I think this is something we need to challenge. And we're seeing it today, because who here listening isn't reducing their graduate hiring? How many call center workers are you hiring now? The wave is starting and it's like a sand pile that's about to collapse.

• 47:21Speaker 00

  And so I've seen lots of people saying the problems. I haven't seen anyone saying a good solution. If so, just like send them my way because normally these transitions, you know, you're no longer riding a horse driving carriage take years.

• 47:38Peter Diamandis?

  Decades.

• 47:39Speaker 00

  Decades.

• 47:41Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, and we're talking about what here? The decoupling is going to occur over what timeframe in your estimate?

• 47:46Speaker 00

  Anything that's a KVM job. A keyboard video mouse can be replaced in a few years. Public sector jobs are the safest jobs in the world because they don't care about efficiency.

• 47:57Peter Diamandis?

  Right.

• 47:57Speaker 00

  Which was a realization I had.

• 48:00Peter Diamandis?

  Oh, no.

• 48:01Speaker 00

  And with the works programs, we saw after the Great Depression and everything, maybe that's the future. And that's not a great future, to be honest.

• 48:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, let me let me generalize on what you just said because it came up yesterday, too. Things that are regulated are the safest jobs. It's not just public sector jobs. It's anything that has a regulatory, you know, financial advisors and appointed insurance agents and all those. It's all surrounded by law that requires you to have the job.

• 48:23Speaker 00

  Well, this is the thing. It requires you to have the job at the final point of contact, but they can be completely hollowed out for superior profitability by getting rid of all the people.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  And actually, that's the theme of a lot of our business plans is the the agent is going to be 10 times more productive, make a ton of money, but they don't need all their support staff anymore.

• 48:40Speaker 00

  What you need is a scape, you need the scapegoat. That's the job.

• 48:44Peter Diamandis?

  The human is the

• 48:46Speaker 02

  Shop title of the future. Responsible, yeah, it's all terminology, I guess. But no, that person really is accountable for that, the overall happiness of the client or whatever. There's accountability. It's not just a scapegoat. But your point is right.

• 48:58Speaker 00

  But I mean, this is, again, the only way to handle this to a degree is to make sure everyone has access to a basic level of AI. So that's why I think what the UAE did recently and giving everyone free chat GPT is great. But the UAE as a nation should control that control place. They should be using the API, not chat GPT.

• 49:17Speaker 00

  Because you're gonna see some very strange things happening very, very soon.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  Hey, I wanna, I wanna make a point for our audience here, because if there's an audience member out there thinking, yeah, this may happen, this may not happen. If you had to name the five reasons why, whether it's your design or another, this is definitely gonna happen, I'll give you two just for free. One of them is transaction speed. You know, when, when AIs are communicating with and asking for services from other AIs and your agents want services, you're talking about millions of times the transaction speed of the banking system, the SWIFT network. And so you need massive rethinking in terms of transaction speed. Another one is equity of access. Nothing in the current system has any concept of equity.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  If anything, it's a winner-take-all design, which leaves everybody in the dust. And so that, the voters are never gonna go for that. And so that's gonna force some kind of structure to come into place as well. So those are two. What would be the top five reasons why this will definitely happen?

• 50:19Speaker 00

  Something like what I'm building, or just the great decoupling?

• 50:24Speaker 02

  It's really exactly what you're building, which is a system of, of distributed governance that empowers AI. Well, you know, within your model, you have application-specific AIs that are much cheaper to run than the big models from the foundation company, uh, model companies. So that's part of it. There's a blockchain component for transactions and for value. Um, and there's a bunch of other parts to it, but it's really the future of governance.

• 50:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I hope it will happen. I'm not confident because of the localized incentives. But it's something that needs to happen, right? Because what's happens is that you're gonna get a lot of defaults happening soon. And then people are gonna basically be giving up their power to these technologies. Like, one of the things about using, so I have a system called I I Mind based on technology. Like I said, I use all the top frontier agents, and it's massively multiplied. That's why I've unblocked my writing thing. So I've actually written like a couple of pretty good books recently, in the last few weeks, and they're genuinely good. Like, wow. This is really interesting, because what you have is...

• 51:30Speaker 00

  An inevitability of a billion trillion agents, so someone will have to build a chain to organize them. You've got inevitability of this being in front of people, but we're outsourcing more and more of our thinking. Like when I'm using O3, my brain is actually changing and I'm relying more and more upon it. And as we have Grok 4, Gemini 3 is about to release, level models, we're going to outsource more and more of our neocortex to it and then we'll be locked more and more in as they understand our context.

• 52:00Speaker 03

  We've been doing that with smartphones for a while where our memories are now in our smartphones and those neurons are now freed up to do other work, right?

• 52:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:08Speaker 03

  So you're talking about the next level of that.

• 52:10Speaker 00

  The next level of that, because they know us better than we know ourselves. Our kids will fall in love with AIs. They'll be the most trusted entities out there. And so I think this governance thing needs to happen now and we need to have serious discussions about it. And we need to think about, what is the world of AIs that I'm working with? And for me, the AI that's closest to us for the regulated industries, because those are the things that handle us living up to a basic level. I think that needs to be open source. The rest, I don't think actually matters that much if it's open source. But I definitely think that needs to be open source. And that's why we've seen discussions of can you have DeepSeek in the US? We need open source champions. I was like, let's just build it. And it turns out that building that type of AI is a couple of orders of

• 52:54Speaker 00

  magnitude less compute than building the super advanced genius ones. So let them build the genius ones.

• 52:59Peter Diamandis?

  Every week, my team and I study the top 10 technology meta trends that will transform industries over the decade ahead. I cover trends ranging from humanoid robotics, AGI, and quantum computing to transport, energy, longevity, and more. There's no fluff, only the most important stuff that matters, that impacts our lives, our companies, and our careers. If you want me to share these meta trends with you, I write a newsletter twice a week, sending it out as a short two-minute read via email. And if you want to discover the most important meta trends 10 years before anyone else, this report's for you. Readers include founders and CEOs from the world's most disruptive companies and entrepreneurs building the world's most disruptive tech. It's not for you if you don't want to be

• 53:40Peter Diamandis?

  informed about what's coming, why it matters, and how you can benefit from it. To subscribe for free, go to diamandis.com/metatrains to gain access to the trends 10 years before anyone else. All right, now back to this episode. Can we talk about advice to national leaders?

• 53:59Peter Diamandis?

  Because right now, as Nvidia and Gemini and Grok and all are going to countries, they're offering sort of a one-size-fits-all across the docket versus, you know, providing something that is bespoke per country. How do you think about that?

• 54:20Speaker 00

  I think that the era of the massive model is actually done, to be contrary. I didn't realize this until we trained I I Medical A B.

• 54:30Peter Diamandis?

  And it was so good.

• 54:31Speaker 00

  I was shocked. Again, a human doctor is at fifteen percent on OpenAI's new benchmark. G P T four point five is at forty-six percent. Chat G P T current one is at forty percent. This is at forty-seven percent.

• 54:46Speaker 02

  With eight billion parameters.

• 54:47Speaker 00

  Eight billion. It works on a Raspberry Pi. It works on a ten-year-old P C.

• 54:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:51Speaker 00

  And it's at a hundred and six languages. By next year, we will have it super good. When I looked at that, and I was like, how much does it cost to train a doctor to do this? I was like, that's crazy. Because when you're doing a specific model for a specific thing, and we're going to train it from scratch because we use Qwen as the base, but now we're using it to build the data set to then train it from scratch. I was like, for all of these operational cook-type jobs, the A I will run on nothing. And then the ability to create an A I that represents your culture and your data set is actually an S curve. A Grok six-type thing is an exponential. Because it's trying to discover brand-new things.

• 55:33Speaker 00

  I don't want to have Doctor House M D as my doctor day-to-day. I want to call him in sometimes when it's complicated, right?

• 55:40Peter Diamandis?

  And go back to the culture side of the equation, because, I mean, first of all, nations need to digitize their culture sufficiently to have native set, yes.

• 55:51Speaker 00

  And that's basically what you learn in school. It's the textbooks plus a bunch of videos. Except for you've been told it's too much for you to be able to do. It's like, does every nation need a deep-seek model of their own they train themselves? No, they need a pre-trained basis. Then they need sectoral and other data sets that are open, gold standard, again, an S curve, where in a year or two, we can actually get good enough. And then they need to have their own cultural data sets, which, to be honest, will only require a team of six to twelve people at most.

• 56:18Peter Diamandis?

  That's insane. But this, I mean, this should be, this should be, I mean, nations need to have a plan. Right, national leaders of every nation need to have a plan of action. I think what you're proposing here is actually viable, executable fairly rapidly.

• 56:36Speaker 00

  The compute that we realize that you need for a node and to train and keep up to date a national dataset is a 72-chip blackwell.

• 56:45Peter Diamandis?

  Which is enough to go around.

• 56:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:49Speaker 02

  Well, hold on, hold on. That 8 billion parameter doctor model is such a hugely important topic because right now we have 20 million GPUs in the world and we're going to make 20 million more, but there are 8 billion people. That means you need to share your GPU with 200 other people. This is like a public bus that's packed with everyone. Right now, if I go to a random person on the street and say, "Hey, I've got $1,000 cash for you," or "You can have a dedicated blackwell for the next year." Which one do you want? Everyone I talk to is going to take the $1,000 cash. What they actually want, and they'll realize this very soon, is the blackwell.

• 57:30Speaker 02

  Because the blackwell is equivalent to employment, it's equivalent to entertainment, they don't know quite yet how much they wanted that blackwell. But they won't be able to get the blackwell because the big foundation models are such compute pigs that they're going to use up every single molecule. This is why that class of the 8 billion parameter use case specific model is the way to alleviate the bottleneck, get the benefit to society without using up every single GPU on just, you know, a couple of virtual girlfriends.

• 58:00Speaker 00

  Exactly. And so our thing was make that available everywhere because then it can diffuse. So, once we get our stack done, there will be a free app, hopefully in a year, that anyone can download onto their GPU's device and it's fully open source that will check every medical decision ever made.

• 58:16Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:17Speaker 00

  And that's all it will do.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  This is one thing that really gets lost in those demos because, you know, Google I/O, they get on stage, you roll out, "Look what you can do with VO3." I just asked it to make a movie and it made this, and it makes like a 10-second clip for you. You're like, "Wow, now just make it make a whole movie." And then you realize, "Wait, the compute isn't there." Like, they can do it in a demo, you can't get it. Why? Because the compute doesn't exist.

• 58:39Speaker 00

  Well, so Elon yesterday said on his Grok 4 announcement, "They're going to use 100,000 blackwells to train the video model," which means they only do-.

• 58:47Peter Diamandis?

  That's insane.

• 58:48Speaker 00

  Yeah. That's the fastest, fastest supercomputer in the world a few years ago.

• 58:52Peter Diamandis?

  So Imad, answer this question, given your background, is Hollywood dead?

• 58:57Speaker 00

  No, Hollywood studios will make a lot of money.

• 59:01Speaker 00

  But I'm worried about the people. Like, if... Yes, the studio.

• 59:08Peter Diamandis?

  So, so let's go, let's go, let's go a different direction here. If the intelligent, if your plans for the intelligent internet or something like it,

• 59:17Peter Diamandis?

  do not proceed. What are your predictions for humanity? What happens in the, with the current trajectory of where we're going?

• 59:27Speaker 00

  Hyper capitalism, massive high proliferation collapse of the dollar and other assets. And the AIs basically outcompeting everyone. Like, every job behind a keyboard, video and mouse, or a public sector job will go, which means that everyone will be employed by the public sector. But that takes time. We can't compete with this, with what's coming. You know, and this is before we consider things like my old college tutor, Oig Demore, who was on the GitHub co-pilot people, just created Xpaw, which just won the top hacker in the United States award. Holy crap. Right? And so, like, stuff is gonna happen faster than we could ever think. And so I was like, I need something that can scale to be the highest marginal dollar for a GPU. Actually, that's part of what I did this.

• 1:00:12Speaker 00

  Like, if you could, because Bitcoin mining is 90% energy, GPUs are 10% energy. What if you could just mine something that could give public benefit? The more of those GPUs we get to public benefit, the better. But absent this, none of them will go to public benefit.

• 1:00:27Speaker 03

  I think you'd, you'd end up, because when I look through your papers, Imad, there are bits and pieces of them being done across the board by lots of other models and lots of other blockchains are attempting, but things like this, right? What you've done is kind of connected them all into one systemic whole, which is very, very powerful.

• 1:00:47Speaker 03

  One way or the other will get there to something like what you're talking about. It'll just be much more slow and much more painful.

• 1:00:54Speaker 00

  Is it?

• 1:00:54Speaker 03

  And a lot of big things could break along the way if we don't get it into place quickly.

• 1:00:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, is it Trantor and Foundation, where you've got those thousands of years? Or does, if you give every single person an AI that's aligned to them as part of a bigger system, with AIs for communities, nations and humanity?

• 1:01:14Speaker 00

  That can draw on a Bitcoin type network of compute to solve problems. We will definitely coordinate better. But no one can own that stack. That should be an open infrastructure for humanity. And then anyone who wants to participate in any element of it should be able to. And so that's what I think is the optimal here. Whereas in the foundation books by Isaac Asimov, you had the secretive foundation. We actually know everything that we need to know to get through this. We just need to rethink how money flows. It should flow from being human. It should be anchored to intelligence and organizing the knowledge of humanity. And the best way to make money shouldn't be that you earn capital. It should be towards doing good. So that's why you start with proof of benefit with benefit.

• 1:01:58Speaker 00

  But then the winners of the X prizes and the cures for cancer, they become the richest people in the world. And the system directs it that way, aided by the AI.

• 1:02:07Peter Diamandis?

  I love that the statement I made at Singularity is the best way to become a billionaire is help a billion people. Right, there's this alignment there.

• 1:02:15Speaker 00

  And we should make it literal because then the AIs will be working and the humans will be working on it. And again, we start out with the basic thing right now. Let's get as many people aligned intelligence as possible and get the compute at organizing our collective knowledge on cancer to autism to longevity to side of us too.

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  That would be my third bullet on the why this must exist. It would be exactly what you just said, because the AIs need to work on it themselves. Otherwise it'll never keep up. And we had Joe Kennedy, the third here in the office a little while back and he was, I had read his, he was in charge of the crypto commission in Congress at the time. And so I read his white paper, then he came in and I asked him some questions about his white paper. And he said, no, I never read my own white paper. What are you talking about? I said, no, that's not how it works. You know, the government is so big and so in charge of so many things that everything needs to either be an agency or self governing. And then we just, you know, choose the self governing process. And so AI will take that to the next level where, okay, the rate at which you need to add ideas is so fast, it can't possibly go through Congress.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  So it needs some kind of a framework that grows at the same rate that AI grows.

• 1:03:23Speaker 00

  But this is the AI first stacks that you need to build and we're building right now. Because if you think about Andre Karpathy, he described this thing called the L L M O S. Like you can virtualize any interface and it's all about the context that you give these. And when I thought about it, I thought about the intelligent internet, our existing internet's gonna break. The AIs will attack it from somewhere or another. I was like, a robust, resilient, coordinated, verifiable internet, you can actually build that from scratch. And then that infrastructure will be very difficult to attack, just like it's difficult to attack Bitcoin, because you need the hash rate. To attack this, you'll need to have a massive amount of compute. Because it can call and compute to resist any attack.

• 1:04:03Speaker 00

  And those attacks are not only hacking attacks, it's psychological memetic attacks. And this is something that I realized recently.

• 1:04:14Speaker 00

  If you think about the base on which almost all of these language models are trained, they're all the same. Which is a generalized polymath view, that's a large attack surface. Again, which is why we're adopted to have a small attack surface.

• 1:04:27Speaker 00

  Do you remember Stuxnet?

• 1:04:29Peter Diamandis?

  Sure.

• 1:04:31Speaker 00

  Tiny virus went to all the reactors around the world, appeared everywhere, engineered by a human, but amazing code. And then caused them to go into overdrive and blow up. I've been thinking about what is the Stuxnet of frontier AI models? Because what I see in the future is the other part. We see massive unemployment and all this, we see the AIs controlling all the parts of our society. And then someone has a Stuxnet. That causes mode collapse across all these models and they all turn evil at once.

• 1:05:02Speaker 00

  Because evil is programmed into their latent space.

• 1:05:07Speaker 00

  And when you think about that, it's like, we need a system that's resilient against things like that. Because if everyone starts, and this is why I've got M I N D, material, intelligence, I've changed it to network and diversity. If you have a diverse range of different AIs. You're more resistant to that than if you have one same AI across everything that's over bloated.

• 1:05:30Speaker 00

  That's based on this polymathic basis running our critical systems.

• 1:05:34Speaker 02

  So how many, how many discrete, if you think about the eight billion model, eight billion parameter model as the, as the, the prototype, are we talking about millions of these?

• 1:05:45Speaker 00

  No, I mean, like it's one for every individual, but you have a very tight data set that it's trained on, like stable diffusion, we trained on two billion images, someone had an equivalent performance of 25 million images. What are the right words and wisdom for society that you actually want to have in your model at the start to do the jobs that are needed to be done, to enable everyone to have a basic level of intelligence and access? That's what we need to build towards and the network needs to combine itself towards. Then everyone's got their own AIs and you're in this stack that's built AI first to be resilient as opposed to having all these dependencies. That's going to be more resilient than our current internet, which is not.

• 1:06:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:23Speaker 00

  From an infrastructure or even a memetic aspect.

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  You know, you know, what's really shocking and kind of sad is that, you know, we clearly need to go down this direction because, you know, the compute is constrained, but it'll always be constrained. You know, there's no way we'll ever be able to build enough compute to keep up with the innovation that AI can come up with because software will move a billion miles an hour, hardware won't. And so it'll always be constrained. So we need, we need exactly what you're talking about. But when you start working on it, the first thing you do is you pick up Qwen and you start working with a Chinese model. And that's the part to me that's, that's surprising and sad and weird. I think it's partially a byproduct of the chip embargo, the, you know, the, the forced constraint on China is forcing a lot of innovation and also it's all being done open source.

• 1:07:09Speaker 02

  But it's really sad to me that there's no way to start with something that's built into your framework or built in America that empowers what you're doing.

• 1:07:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, like I, I will train a model better than Qwen. Again, I built state of the art models of every type and I'll make it fully open source, which was like, I gotta do that.

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  Then you'll solve the problem.

• 1:07:26Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, I know how to solve it. And so this is the thing, it's not hard, it's just that it's in no one's interest to do so. But it's in our interest to do so because the more people that use our model, it's like VHS versus Betamax.

• 1:07:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:38Speaker 00

  I want a good enough model that takes everyone up to a basic level and then combined has massive network effects. Then I can use that to get more and more mining of this to give more and more benefit and that's it.

• 1:07:50Speaker 03

  And you get mass adoption at a pace that resists the, kind of the legacy from blocking it off.

• 1:08:00Peter Diamandis?

  That is, that's the, that is a key question, right? You're gonna have an immune reaction from those whose systems are disrupting.

• 1:08:08Speaker 00

  So, the way that you do it, I mean, the only way you can do it is, again, decentralized permissionless, right? You buy the currency, exactly the same as Bitcoin, available wherever it is, except for you can direct where your purchase proceeds go, to cancer or autism or whatever, things that really matter to people. And then the code is permissionless. Stable diffusion was downloaded over a hundred million times because it's permissionless. So, it will end up everywhere. Because, would you prefer to have your Qwen model that actually has a Qwen license and you don't know what's inside, or a model of equivalent performance that's being used by everyone, deployed or not? You will use the VHS. But we want it to be an amazing quality VHS.

• 1:08:50Peter Diamandis?

  So, you're, you know, you've been the champion of open source now for, you know, a multi-, you know, I don't know, ten years probably, at least five. Is there an open source system out there that you trust right now?

• 1:09:06Speaker 00

  No, I mean, like, the Alan AI guys are doing good stuff, but it's in no one's interest to really make this. And again, just like, I gave a very simple example. Should we have a supercomputer to organize all the cancer knowledge in the world?

• 1:09:21Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, check.

• 1:09:22Speaker 00

  Will it accelerate a cure for cancer?

• 1:09:24Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 1:09:25Speaker 00

  Yes. Why isn't it done?

• 1:09:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and when you say it's in no one's interest, what you're meaning, I'm just parsing it for the audience here, you mean it's not in the interest of the big foundation model companies?

• 1:09:36Peter Diamandis?

  It's a common.

• 1:09:37Speaker 02

  But it is in the interest of 99.9% of humanity and all voter, almost all voters. So, if you're not a big shareholder in either Meta, or XAI, or Anthropic, or Google, you're a part of that 99% of the world, this is hugely in your best interest, which comes back to the rollout plan, you know, how do you get adoption of this very, very quickly? Well, if it's in the interest of 99.9% of humanity, there should be a vehicle for getting adoption.

• 1:10:02Speaker 00

  I bought Bitcoin, except for all of the money that I used to it went towards this cancer supercomputer, and here's a screen of what the cancer supercomputer is doing today. That's the narrative.

• 1:10:15Speaker 00

  I'm downloading these models because they're open source and free and I can do whatever I want with them and there's a whole community built around it. That's the other narrative. And then for me, these are the primitives that can lead to what I think is going to be most important, which is the economy needs to change. Thing, the reason that that cancer supercomputer doesn't get rewarded, even though we can, say if we raise a hundred million dollars, a hundred million dollars of coin will be on the balance sheet of that person. So it costs them nothing probably if we're successful. In fact, they'll make money by helping with a hundred million dollars of compute because of the demand for digital assets. The economy is only based on one thing, which is GDP, which is material. We need to reward intelligence, network effects and diversity.

• 1:10:57Speaker 00

  And again, we couldn't do that before because we didn't have these AIs that could measure the impact, that could impartially say, of course, this is a good idea. I'll give you one very straightforward example of that. If we had a dedicated open source supercomputer that analyzed every single bill that went through the government and gave an honest take on it, completely transparent, would that change the way our democracy works? Yes.

• 1:11:24Peter Diamandis?

  Would it be made illegal quickly?

• 1:11:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, maybe.

• 1:11:27Peter Diamandis?

  Also, yes.

• 1:11:29Speaker 00

  But this is the fascinating thing. The AIs can act from a mechanism design perspective as independent virtuous and wise entities. And so as we build the system of governance for the future, we need to make sure they can do that, which is why we need to build impartially. This is really good news.

• 1:11:45Speaker 02

  Bullet four of why this must happen. Because what we're essentially saying here is if this doesn't happen, the natural progress will put all of the power into the hands of a couple of big foundation model AI companies. And you can measure that by where is the compute?

• 1:12:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:12:02Speaker 02

  If you see all the compute in the hands of, say, three people, five people. Then you know that they're dictators of the world forever thereafter. And so you so if we don't.

• 1:12:12Peter Diamandis?

  At an exponential rate, at a rate at which it cannot be caught up and disrupted. That's the issue.

• 1:12:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. So.

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  You know what's really cool is that this all the AI will transcribe everything we're saying here. And when we say, hey, AI, can you put this into a bullet list for our audience? Then we'll have four of the five done. Yeah. Uh, so if we can think of the fifth one, that would be.

• 1:12:31Peter Diamandis?

  Well, we'll let the AI, we'll let the AI figure out the fifth one. Salim, what do you?

• 1:12:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think there's a nice inevitability here, right? So as we move forward down this AI automation of work path, if we just take the simplest thing like driving, which we've talked about as being the number one job in the world, right? There are more drivers as a profession than anything else in the world. You automate driving, uh, you have a huge GDP collapse from automating a few of these things. Healthcare workers, driving, uh, uh, teachers, et cetera, et cetera. That collapse in GDP will force, because one of the flaws of GDP is if you make something 100x efficient, it drops GDP, right? Uh, and so that will force a move into a new mechanism like this, independent of whether the governments like it or not.

• 1:13:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:19Speaker 03

  I think there's something interesting there about that.

• 1:13:21Speaker 00

  There's a complete collapse of aggregate demand and other things. And this is why the other aspects of the economics paper, and again, there's more proofs of that is we need to move to a new type of economics where money is basically created by people. And that will give constant demand forever because the current solutions like UBI, UBI will never work. Mathematically, it cannot work when tax rates go down. The AI is coming like a wave and the AI will also be amazing at tax accounting. You know, putting it through Ireland or whatever.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  And that. Can you, that so few people understand what you just said, and it's so, so important because everyone's talking about UBI, UBI, UBI. Because everyone's used to wanting money.

• 1:13:57Peter Diamandis?

  Slow it down, Imad. Why will a UBI, so universal basic income, the, the, for everybody listening here, the basic thesis is that as jobs go away and productivity goes through the roof and potentially GDP, because you're dividing by effectively zero, goes through the roof, we are going to give every citizen on the planet or in your country, a certain allocute of money that allows them to survive month to month to month, covers their basics. It's been tested, you know, in a hundred experiments. Saleem and I have both written about this. And in these limited experiments, people don't use the money for beer and Netflix. They actually use it to improve their lives, educate themselves, start, you know,

• 1:14:38Peter Diamandis?

  in Africa, buy some animals, buy sewing machines, start a job. Why wouldn't?

• 1:14:44Speaker 03

  The problem I've stated in the past is, is to go from a taxation, union, labor, job type of structure to this is such a huge leap. We have no confidence in public sector to get us there. Right? But Ema, you have a more nuanced view on the economic side of it. So talk through that.

• 1:15:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was like, give them money, but give them money for being human and make them mint the money. You use your artificial intelligence.

• 1:15:08Peter Diamandis?

  So I'm going to slow this down for everybody. Make them mint the money. What does that mean?

• 1:15:12Speaker 00

  So let's rewind it a little bit, actually. What happens is this, UBI works in small cases. If you have a complete realignment, great decoupling of society, and all these agents getting smart at once and out competing everyone, aggregate demand goes down massively.

• 1:15:29Peter Diamandis?

  Aggregate demand for what?

• 1:15:31Speaker 00

  People stop spending because everyone's losing their jobs.

• 1:15:34Speaker 03

  This is where you end up with the outcome of the zero marginal cost society.

• 1:15:37Speaker 00

  Tax goes down. And then these AIs, these wholly AI firms, or one person at the top with a thousand million GPs will never make a profit. Because a profit is an indication that they can't find any more marginal value. And the profit can always be put into more GPUs. Even if they did, they would figure out all the tax loopholes in the world not to pay that profit. Because they're better at tax loopholes than you are. So the tax base is going to do that. And then giving everyone cash and then making them spend it is going to be very difficult.

• 1:16:08Speaker 03

  See, that's what I see as a positive, in fact, because that'll be the forcing function to flip to a system like this. It'd just be painful as hell if we don't do it quickly enough.

• 1:16:16Speaker 00

  And so my thing is, once you've given everyone basic AI, which I think will actually only cost a dollar a month, uh, if we get it right, then why not make it so that the money that comes into the system isn't from banks? It's from the people. So everyone mints money constantly.

• 1:16:31Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, going back, what is, what does everybody minting money mean in this scenario?

• 1:16:37Speaker 00

  It means that you have a national digital currency.

• 1:16:42Speaker 00

  Number goes up every single day as you use your AI to make yourself happier and better and improve your community.

• 1:16:48Peter Diamandis?

  So I'm using my AI to write a new story for my three-year-old child. I'm using an AI to diagnose a sick friend. And as I do that, as I use the AI in a positive, agreed-upon mechanism, I'm minting these foundation tokens.

• 1:17:07Speaker 00

  You get, you melt your culture coins, as we call it, your national tokens that are pegged to the thing, just like you had gold pegs. So you've got your stable thing, and then you've got your flow. You mint your currency, a certain level just for being a citizen, and then more if you do societally positive things.

• 1:17:23Speaker 03

  So if you feed cancer data into a broader model, you get more than if you just sit around doing nothing.

• 1:17:29Speaker 00

  Exactly. As you build up status in your community and your society, and again, there's lots of details we worked out about that part, then you should be able to benefit, and that becomes a circulating currency, because then people are like, that's an index on Mexican AI use. And so money will flow more and more into digital assets from the existing economy. It will flow more and more into generative AI assets regardless of anything that happens. But if we get a collapse in aggregate demand, you know where capital's gonna go. Capital's gonna go into Gen AI and blockchain. And so make it easy for that to happen.

• 1:18:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's really, really brilliant.

• 1:18:02Speaker 03

  The quiet part out loud here is, over time, this will collapse national economies. You know, it'll end up with one global structure.

• 1:18:10Speaker 02

  Well, just, you know, just to

• 1:18:12Speaker 00

  China will dominate.

• 1:18:13Speaker 02

  Very similar. The problem with UBI is, you know, I give you money. Right now, if you make money, you have a choice to use it, you know, on entertainment, or you can go to the casino, whatever you want to do. Or you can invest it, or you can buy a sewing machine and start, you know, turn it into death. That's your choice. In the future, that universal right to AI.

• 1:18:33Speaker 02

  Is the equivalent. So now you have your AI. You can use it for your virtual girlfriend if that's what you want to do, but you can also use it to generate some benefit. You can use it to help cure cancer. That becomes the equivalent choice, and it's the only relevant choice in the post AGI economy. That's the flaw in UBI and the beautiful thing about this design.

• 1:18:51Speaker 00

  That's why I've got N, a network is a key thing. Like Wikipedia created so much value from its network effects and others. If you say, what is the meaning of life in a post AGI world? It's living. It's, I saw my family on the weekend, you know, it's like, my daughters are, actually, my daughters' art's pretty good. My most daughters' arts aren't pretty good. That created value, right? But it can't be measured by any of this. And the post-abundance society, the Star Trek world, is one of boldly going where no one has gone before. It's about exploring. It's about deepening your community values. And if you put an AI next to you that's looking out for you, it's going to be encouraging you to do that, as well as contributing to some of these bigger problems, right? It's going to encourage you to create, because creation's about context, it's about flow.

• 1:19:37Speaker 00

  So this is why I think if we program this right, it can be a really nice elegant structure that moves away from extractive economics that we have today, and capitalism and democracy are the worst of all systems, except for all the rest, to something better. And the question is, where do we want to direct ourselves? And my view is, direct it to benefit. And that benefit is something that we need to decide at a societal level, country, community level, individual level.

• 1:20:06Speaker 03

  You know, there's an exemplar, there's a good example of what you're talking about here. Peter and I write about it in the new EXO book, which is technological socialism. A typical government socialism fails because you always end up with centralized inefficient planning, and invariably leads to corruption. And it always fails for those two counts. But if you, we kind of talked through an example like Uber, which is the sharing of assets amongst a large group of people. It's actually a socialist function. But when an algorithm hyper-efficiently allocates it, it all the benefits of the collective assets without the downside of inefficiency or graft.

• 1:20:43Speaker 03

  And so I think there's a stepping stone from something like that to what you're talking about. That's an easy thing to go down. And when you have a structure like, say, Uber, you don't need a lot of regulatory because the system has the right inputs and outputs and feedback loops to self-manage itself. And we're seeing more and more examples of that inevitably leading. This is why I think this is going to happen one way or the other. There's too much efficiency to be gained by having a system like that than by not, but it'll be it's facing lots of forcing functions and legacy issues. If you can craft in the way you're thinking about, you're providing a scaffolding that everybody can just ladder up in a structured way to that new model, which I think would be very powerful.

• 1:21:24Speaker 00

  And the fact that generative AI creates this non-rival intelligence for almost nothing, the cost of skills have gone to almost nothing. Capitalism will not survive that.

• 1:21:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:37Speaker 00

  Like literally, just go and ask your O three, your chat GPT or others. Based on intelligence going like that and AI achieving a level of performance that's equivalent to a human and can scale. What does that do to capitalism? What does that do to democracy? What does that do to tech? And you will have some very deep answers there. It's scary something else.

• 1:22:00Peter Diamandis?

  You know, thrilled by your finally giving birth to these papers. And would love to have you back again. You've been an incredible friend of the pod here to speak about.

• 1:22:15Speaker 03

  At some point you have to come back.

• 1:22:17Speaker 02

  I think really, really important.

• 1:22:19Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, Dave, you got it. I was gonna wind this down so people can.

• 1:22:24Speaker 02

  So, you know, ideas like this historically, they propagate out through a token. And you have a you already have this universal access to AI as a founding principle, which is I'm sure going to be available in in blockchain form. Right? That's the only way you would get it out quickly to the to the world. Is it fundamentally investable as a token or not?

• 1:22:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's just like Bitcoin, except for it's called Foundation Coin.

• 1:22:45Speaker 02

  It's called Foundation. When's it gonna be out?

• 1:22:47Speaker 00

  Soon, hopefully. We've been mining it since been mining it since January.

• 1:22:51Speaker 02

  Whenever it's out, like come back and.

• 1:22:53Peter Diamandis?

  Well, we'll come back and we'll launch it right here on this on this moonshot pod. Agreed, Imad?

• 1:23:01Speaker 00

  Agreed, agreed, yeah.

• 1:23:02Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 1:23:04Peter Diamandis?

  So, Imad, what are this real quick? What are your next steps here in making this real, making this launch?

• 1:23:11Speaker 00

  We're going to put out all of the knowledge and the work that we've done and we just want people to give their input and think about what the future of education, health, governments, and everything is. Like, the first step is to stress test that. So go to ii.inc. If you sign up, you'll get the details of that and all the details and knowledge will be there.

• 1:23:28Peter Diamandis?

  ii.inc, okay, that's where we go to to get more details. And following you, you know, you're active on on X. What's your handle there?

• 1:23:39Speaker 00

  It's @Imostak, I and then my last name.

• 1:23:42Peter Diamandis?

  All right. Amazing. So I know, Saleem and Dave, we could go on for hours here in this conversation. And and we should. But but next time.

• 1:23:54Speaker 03

  I think we've hit the S curve limit of extracting useful value in this conversation. My brain is fried.

• 1:24:02Speaker 00

  Just restructure society. No big deal.

• 1:24:06Peter Diamandis?

  It is the most exciting time ever to be alive. We're in the middle of this intelligence explosion. And I just want to remind people that we have the ability to steer. We don't need to give up on on a sense of humanity's future. It's not going to happen to us. We have the ability to shape that future, to create that Star Trek universe, to create this a sense of a hopeful, compelling, abundant future for humanity. That's what we talk about on this podcast. And that's what we believe in. Imad, thank you for being a friend and a brilliant creator.

• 1:24:42Speaker 03

  And all the folks that prefer a Mad Max future don't listen to this podcast anyway.

• 1:24:46Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, go someplace, go someplace else. Talk about politics someplace else. If you want to talk about science, technology, creating the future, creating moonshots, this is the place for you. So share it with your friends. Imad, a pleasure.

• 1:25:00Speaker 03

  In terms of the names of this podcast, Imad, I think you hit the high bar on a true moonshot.

• 1:25:06Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, Saving Humanity, that's a good one.

• 1:25:10Speaker 03

  My MTP is to transform civilization and I think I can just relax now.

• 1:25:14Peter Diamandis?

  There you go. Like I gave up space to Elon, you can give up that to Ahmad.

• 1:25:19Speaker 03

  I'm good.

• 1:25:21Peter Diamandis?

  You know, why are these four-letter names that start with E so important these days? I don't know.

• 1:25:28Peter Diamandis?

  All right, everybody. Thank you for joining us on this special episode of Moonshots with Ahmad Mustak, the founder of Intelligent Internet. Go to ii.inc, check it all out and come back and visit us next time. We'll be back next week with another episode of WTF Just Happened in Technology.

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