6/30/25 Your Money-Saving Guide: Credit Cleanup + Solar Changes in California

The Moneywise Radio Show and Podcast Monday, June 30th BE MONEYWISE. Moneywise Wealth Management I "The Moneywise Guys" podcast call: 661-847-1000 text in anytime: 661-396-1000 website: www. MoneywiseGuys.com facebook: Moneywise_Wealth_Management Guest: David Castro, Next Phase Electric website: https://nextphaseelect.com/

• 0:00Speaker 00

  From the Garo Ellis padded radio room off Stockdale Highway, here is Money Wise.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Call or text into the show 24/7 at 396-1000.

• 0:39Speaker 00

  Here is Money Wise.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  Money, money, money, money.

• 0:44Speaker 00

  Welcome to the Money Wise Show. We are live from the Garo Ellis padded radio room of Stockdale Highway on ESPN Bakersfield, 1230 a.m., 101.1 FM, and always streaming at MoneyWiseGuys.com. You can call or text into the show 24 hours a day at 661-396-1000. That was 661-396-1000.

• 1:06Speaker 02

  You got it right.

• 1:07Speaker 00

  Yes. Today, we are your hosts. I'm Sammy Abiyawu with

• 1:10Speaker 02

  Dustin Weaver.

• 1:11Speaker 00

  Dustin Weaver, long time no having a show.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's good to be here.

• 1:15Speaker 00

  What's up with Steven? He hasn't put us together in a while.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Busy, busy advisors.

• 1:20Speaker 00

  Oh, that's right. That's good. So that's a great answer, by the way, Steven.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  I'm just saying.

• 1:24Speaker 00

  Great answer, great answer.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  It's the correct answer.

• 1:27Speaker 00

  That's right. That's right. Well, let's start the show. We have a bunch of questions, Dustin. Just quickly before we move on to that, how was the market today?

• 1:36Speaker 02

  Market was mostly up. S&P was up 0.52%. The NASDAQ, which has more of a technology bent to it, and a lot of the smaller companies, 0.47 on the positive. Dow Jones up 0.63. So.

• 1:51Speaker 00

  Yep, great.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  Green across the board.

• 1:53Speaker 00

  That's awesome. That's also, that's great to hear. We have a bunch of questions, so we'll dive right into that. What was the first one, Dustin?

• 1:59Speaker 02

  Sure, yeah, I'll take that one. "Hey there, I am a single mom working two jobs here in Bakersfield, and my credit took a hit during the pandemic when I had to choose between paying rent and keeping up with my credit cards. I'm finally getting back on my feet, but my credit score is still in the low 500s. What's the most realistic way for someone like me to start repairing my credit without falling for those 'Fix Your Credit Fast' scams I keep seeing on social media? Thank you, guys, so much."

• 2:24Speaker 00

  Very good questions. And first, congratulations on getting back on your feet. That's, that's great to hear. Hopefully, there's more good news for you. As far as the credit, it's one of the trickiest things to understand is the credit score.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 2:40Speaker 00

  Right? And, and now we have, we have people because of the pandemic, because of other things. A lot of it's because of medical bills, most, most of the time.

• 2:48Speaker 02

  One of the number ones.

• 2:49Speaker 00

  That's right. It takes a hit and it's hard to bring it back up. A lot of it has to do with just lack of understanding of some of the things that you can do in order for you to bring it up. Now, one of the easiest things to do is clean it up. The way you clean it up, you go online, sign up for a service through Experian. It costs about $4.99 a month if you want the paid version, one of the, the paid versions.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:13Speaker 00

  Okay. Then you start looking at your credit on a regular basis.

• 3:16Speaker 02

  I think that's important places.

• 3:18Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  Know where you stand.

• 3:19Speaker 00

  Correct. Look at your credit, see exactly what has, what, what's on it. And then you start tackling some of the things that are old. You can challenge now. You can call or challenge online using that service to either be removed or just challenged. And a lot of the time, guess what? It gets challenged, it gets removed. That's been my experience personally.

• 3:40Speaker 02

  So we've talked about a resource out there. It's the one government-sponsored website, annualcreditreport.com, that you can go and get a free bureau each year from each of the three Equifax, Experian and TransUnion. Do you know if that system, you're able to put that, those requests in?

• 4:00Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 4:00Speaker 02

  And you see something inaccurate?

• 4:01Speaker 00

  That's correct. So now with the Experian, you can sign up for all three through Experian.com. You can sign up for all three bureaus and access to all three credit reports. However, it's going to be a little bit more costly than $4.99 or the pricing I have to double check. But what I have is a $4.99 version of that. And on a regular basis, I go in and I just check. This thing has been run, this thing has not been run, or I'm late on something, God forbid. How can I fight that? So it just gives you an overview of your credit. So you can now start tackling it. It's been always like the black hole. People don't know what's on their credit because they don't have access to it, like to a report.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 4:42Speaker 00

  But if you if you are able to just sign up either and by the way, that service is available through all three bureaus. I prefer experience just because of the ease of their website.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 4:52Speaker 00

  I'm not promoting them.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 4:53Speaker 00

  But just in my experience, it's been good.

• 4:55Speaker 02

  It's been good.

• 4:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, I I'll give you an instance. I was buying my wife a car and I ran my credit before I walked into the.

• 5:03Speaker 02

  The dealership?

• 5:04Speaker 00

  Yes. And I've always pride myself in seven hundred plus, seven hundred fifty plus, almost eight hundred.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 5:11Speaker 00

  I I ran my credit, it was six ninety. And I'm like, what's going on?

• 5:15Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 5:16Speaker 00

  So it was it was a medical bill that I was told got removed, but it was not getting removed.

• 5:21Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  But I challenged it on the spot. Within forty eight hours, it was removed.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  How about that?

• 5:26Speaker 00

  And my score went up to where it's supposed to be.

• 5:30Speaker 02

  So to summarize what we're saying, dispute legitimate errors, right? Accounts you don't recognize, any late payments that are. It was incorrect late payment, you didn't actually, you weren't late. You can dispute that directly with all three of the bureaus.

• 5:44Speaker 00

  Through this website or through this type of service.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 5:48Speaker 00

  And and it's it's really not very, very, it's not difficult. It just takes time to maneuver through the website.

• 5:55Speaker 02

  Well, and what's nice is those those bureaus have mandates by the government. They have to investigate and respond within thirty days.

• 6:02Speaker 00

  That's correct. So if no response within takes place within thirty days, guess what? That gets removed.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 6:08Speaker 00

  And that's what helps jump jump you back to the score that you want to have.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  Well, and I think that's where a lot of, I know they use this question came in as, you know, illegitimate scams out there of helping fix credit. But that is one of the ways a lot of legitimate credit help places.

• 6:28Speaker 00

  They get they get access to your credit bureau, they go in and they start just working it. That's that's what they do. They're spending the time. Why don't you spend the time and save eighty dollars, hundred dollars a month for somebody to come in and clean your report? You could do it on your own.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Well, like you said, it's complicated. There's a lot of moving parts, but what it comes down to your score, really, there's three major areas, right? The payment history is around a third or just over a third, about 35% of your score.

• 6:54Speaker 00

  That's correct, yes.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  Credit utilization is another 30%.

• 6:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, so let's talk about credit utilization. What does that mean?

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know what it means.

• 7:04Speaker 00

  Okay, go ahead. I just want listeners to understand that.

• 7:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, so how often are you accessing and at what percentage are you accessing the credit that's available to you?

• 7:14Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  So, for example, you can have $10,000 of available credit, and if you're using, say, three grand of that in one month, and then you turn around and pay it off, you utilized 30% that month, and you also showed that you were responsible in paying it off.

• 7:30Speaker 00

  That's correct.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  Right?

• 7:31Speaker 00

  That's correct.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  As opposed to somebody that uses all 10,000 and then makes a minimum payment.

• 7:35Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  Who would you want to lend money to, right?

• 7:37Speaker 00

  That's correct. Now, here's something else with credit cards. People, whenever they want to turn the corner and, "Hey, I paid off this credit card. I'm proud of it", they go and they're like, "I'm gonna close that account."

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Don't do that.

• 7:49Speaker 00

  Don't do that. Because the length of the credit is, I think, item number two that you were gonna talk about. That helps with the credit score. How long have you been? How long is your history with the bureau?

• 8:00Speaker 02

  So, from what I've seen, it's typically seven to 10 years' worth of history that you get. So, if you close an account, even if it had good activity...

• 8:08Speaker 00

  You lose that history.

• 8:09Speaker 02

  You're gonna lose that history in so many years, yep.

• 8:12Speaker 00

  And even if you have a credit card that's $10,000, and guess what? You don't use it. It's reporting on the credit bureau report that it's a green check mark.

• 8:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:23Speaker 00

  That means you're sustaining it.

• 8:25Speaker 02

  In good standing, right?

• 8:25Speaker 00

  It's good standing.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 8:27Speaker 00

  So, don't close your credit card if you pay them off. Now, I understand that there is an urge after we pay off credit cards, like, "Hey, I have access to this. I can go and buy that."

• 8:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:39Speaker 00

  Whatever. Don't do that. Still cut the card. Don't have access to it, but keep the account open.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  So what do you say to the person that, let's say during that tough time, be it COVID or just a curve ball, one of the many curve balls life throws us, let's say they didn't have any credit, what do you recommend to get reestablished? If you're in a bind like this, you got a 500 credit score, you're wanting to rebuild, where would you have them go?

• 9:04Speaker 00

  So what you can do is a secured credit card with either, with your bank, if you have a checking account with Bank of America, they provide secured credit cards. I started, when I first came to America, I started with 250 credit card. It was backed by my own cash. That's how I started my credit.

• 9:23Speaker 02

  So that's what you mean by secured. It's tied to that money that you put up front?

• 9:26Speaker 00

  That's correct. So it's basically cash secured credit card. It's not an unsecured credit card. And you use it, you pay it, you use it, you pay it, you establish, you reestablish that history, and hopefully it helps your credit score. Another way is if you have a loved one that has a credit card, they can add you as a user.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  Right?

• 9:47Speaker 00

  You know?

• 9:48Speaker 02

  Authorized user?

• 9:49Speaker 00

  Authorized user.

• 9:50Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 9:51Speaker 00

  And if you could do that, that's great, because you get the benefit of them also using the card and pay it on time, and you get the benefit of that. Those are two ways that you could, for somebody to reestablish themselves.

• 10:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, one of, you know, the financial voices out there, and I don't agree with everything he says, but Dave Ramsey certainly has a voice, and he's helped a lot of people, and talks about credit and climbing out of debt. He refers to the credit score as an I love debt score. And why he says that is you're showing that you can be responsible with debt, and that's really what the credit score is, right? You're saying, I'm going to be responsible with this going forward. And thankfully, you know, anything bad that happens, that has an expiration date, it falls off at some point, and you can reestablish, and you can show that you're in a better position, and that'll improve that score.

• 10:44Speaker 00

  Look, when I was a banker, and 2008 happened, we saw a lot of this. We saw a lot of bankruptcies, we saw a lot of short sales. Credit scores suffered tremendously. But people came back, and bank just learned how to live with the amount of people that had bad credit around that time, right? So it happens to...

• 11:05Speaker 00

  The best of us, very proud of this lady, she's getting back on her feet. I want her to continue that journey. If there's any additional question from you, please text us back and we'll try to address it.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  I would add two more things real quick. So don't ignore any collection accounts, right? And see if you can get a, see if you can negotiate a what they call pay for deleting.

• 11:26Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Where they can, at the very least, market as paid in full when you get things paid off, even if you paid them less than what was owed. Say you had an old bill that you still owe a thousand dollars, you can negotiate, hey, I'm gonna pay you three hundred, four hundred, whatever the number is, and agree, they can agree to take that off your record or at least show it that it's, that it's paid in full.

• 11:48Speaker 00

  That's a very good point, Dustin, as far as the collection, because a lot of the time, a lot of people call and they negotiate the amount, but, and they pay, but it remains on the credit.

• 11:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:00Speaker 00

  So what you said is, is, is great.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  You want it to be paid in full.

• 12:03Speaker 00

  In full and hopefully removed.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:06Speaker 00

  That's, that's the negotiation part for, that you need to be focusing on.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  That's right. And then the last tip that's top of mind here is, as you're re-establishing, don't apply for too much credit at once. You don't want to go out there and have a lot of hard inquiries that can ding your score if you do too much in a short period of time.

• 12:21Speaker 00

  And, and, and as, as an ex-banker again, when I see a lot of inquiries, I mean, that means to, what, what it means to me is that this person has been running around trying to get credit and it has, they didn't get it.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:33Speaker 00

  That means it was not a good credit risk for others, automatically I'm gonna say.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  What did they see that I don't?

• 12:40Speaker 00

  That's right. So automatically my red flags will go up.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 12:43Speaker 00

  So definitely just focus on one or two credit cards. And if you have a really, really bad credit, restart with a smaller credit card, hopefully cash secured or an authorized user.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  And know that it does take time.

• 12:56Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  Right? And usually the problems didn't happen overnight and the repair doesn't happen overnight either.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  That's right. That's a very good way of, of, of putting it. Um, let's go to the next question before we go into our guest.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Okay, what do we have here?

• 13:12Speaker 00

  I know this is a bit broad, but what advice would you give someone who's considering moving out of California for financial reasons like high cost, high rates, and is gas prices set up to go up again tomorrow?

• 13:23Speaker 02

  Well, this is a real question that we see a lot, right?

• 13:26Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Very good question. I, I always like to start with define your goals, right? For in by your, you and your family.

• 13:35Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  Whoever's impacted by this decision. What, what are you trying to accomplish, right? Is it just reducing the cost of living or are you looking at buying a different home? You need to cash out and pay off some debt? You building savings? What are you doing, right? What are the perceived advantages on the front end of this decision?

• 13:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, because we can make an emotional, emotional decision to move out of the state of California based on just what it's said on the media. The governor does not know what he's doing. We have insurance problems. We have housing problem. We have gas problems.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:09Speaker 00

  But at the end of the day, what is, what is your plan? As an individual, maybe as a, as a family, and what are you trying to accomplish? So create that plan first and then start your research based on what your plan is. Which state fits you best?

• 14:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 14:26Speaker 00

  Which county, which city fits you best, right? Not every state is, you know, gonna be right for you or your family.

• 14:34Speaker 02

  I feel like I keep, keep hearing the same few states. You know, there's, there's definitely some commonalities amongst the thought process, right?

• 14:41Speaker 00

  Texas.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  Tennessee.

• 14:43Speaker 00

  Tennessee.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, sometimes Idaho. Yep.

• 14:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  Seeing a lot of the same common suspects, but there is more to it than just, you know, a quick Google search away.

• 14:53Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  You really have to think long and hard about.

• 14:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  And it's not just any one category like, oh, state income taxes, right? Well, what about utilities? What about transportation? How does healthcare look different?

• 15:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:08Speaker 02

  There's more than just state income tax. There's property taxes, right? I have a friend that moved outside of Houston was shocked to find out even on a Two hundred some thousand dollar house, his property tax bill was 12 grand a year, a thousand dollars a month. Right. There's parts of, you know, Denver, Colorado, which is beautiful, by the way. But zip code by zip code, the property tax can vary. One, one house across the street from another can be 1% difference in property tax.

• 15:33Speaker 00

  So it's not, it's not, it's not the Brady Bunch. We're going to just back and just start driving on the freeway.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 15:38Speaker 00

  We gotta do some research. We gotta see where we're going.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 15:41Speaker 00

  And, and I think if you fast forward and you actually decide, hey, I'm going to go to Idaho or I'm going to go to Texas and, and I'm going to sell my house in California. Are you going to sell the house or you're going to rent the house? Those are financial questions that you also want to address because do you want to keep a foothold here? Or not? Or just, just, you know?

• 16:01Speaker 02

  Right. And that foothold comes with implications. So talk to your financial advisor, your accountant, definitely. Cause there's tax implications to these decisions, but I'm also a huge fan of try before you buy. Make a visit.

• 16:14Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  Like an extended visit. I'm talking a two or three week kind of travel, right? And talk to the locals. Look at the neighborhoods. Test the commute if you think that you're going to be working in person, right?

• 16:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  It's a lot of moving parts, big decisions.

• 16:29Speaker 00

  There's a lot of moving parts. If you are successful though, and you move, moving out of the States, you are able to save some money. I have a rule of thumb, those savings that you're going to be getting, actually save them.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:45Speaker 00

  Don't, don't, don't upgrade your lifestyle. Actually save the savings or at least a big portion of it, 50% or 75% of that.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  If. Not all lifestyle drift, huh?

• 16:56Speaker 00

  That's right. No, no. If you're going to upgrade and, and all that, be careful and, and, and keep, keep the savings going. Or at least start a new savings account based on the move you're making.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  It's good advice. As we're thinking about savings, I think after the break, we could have an opportunity to talk a little bit about savings.

• 17:14Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  I think we've got a break coming up.

• 17:16Speaker 00

  That's right. Stephen, we're going to take a break and when we come back, we're going to have, we're going to talk solar.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  All right. Yeah, we had a guest.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Are you an employee with a company sponsored retirement plan? Do you fully understand how you're invested and whether or not you are maximizing your retirement plan's options? For more information on a free assessment, contact MoneyWise's 401k specialist, Justin Leland at 661-847-1000. That's 661-847-1000.

• 17:46Speaker 00

  This doesn't sound like Moroccan music, Steve.

• 17:50Speaker 00

  What is this?

• 17:51Speaker 02

  You know that.

• 17:52Speaker 00

  Is this the music to the dolphin deal that you guys did today with the Steelers?

• 18:00Speaker 02

  You don't want to get into that.

• 18:01Speaker 00

  I'm not getting into that.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  I'll get you your Aaron Rodgers jersey, just relax. Burn it.

• 18:10Speaker 00

  We're back with the Money Wise Show, we're back. I'm Sami Abiyaw here with Dustin Weaver. We're joined by David Castro, Chief Sales Officer at Nextphase. Nextphase is a solar company, David?

• 18:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, Nextphase Electric is a commercial electric company and residential solar.

• 18:26Speaker 00

  Okay. Tell us a little bit more about the company. How long has it been in existence?

• 18:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're actually in our 10th year. Started off as just commercial electric. Couple of guys started that company and then in 2018, the founders wanted to get into residential solar. And we've been doing both ever since.

• 18:46Speaker 00

  Residential solar has taken a little hit. I mean, I used to, I was a banker before then, I consulted, then I consulted for some local solar companies. And the NEM3, N-E-M, 3, had taken a big, or helped take a big hit. Or in the state of California. Tell us a little bit more about that because I think our listeners will be very interested in knowing, is it still viable today?

• 19:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, NEM2, NEM3, what's the difference?

• 19:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, so, to sum it up, NEM2 was a very favorable plan, solar plan with PG&E. Basically, they would give you credits for any electricity that you didn't use. And then you can use those credits up either at night or in months where you weren't using them up. It's kind of like the old rollover minute plans, right? What has happened is, more people went solar than the utilities could have ever imagined. And it was overloading the grid at the wrong time. So, they changed it to incentivize people to store power on premises, at their home. So, NEM3 doesn't give you credits anymore.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  So, the reason why, you know, the viability seems less is because you're just buying more equipment. Now, all the systems come with batteries. So, you have to buy batteries to be able to store the power you produce all day? Um, and then store it during, store the excess during the day and then use it up at night from your batteries, not pulling from the grid at all.

• 20:19Speaker 00

  I see.

• 20:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. So you're buying more equipment, so the savings is, is less than it used to be.

• 20:25Speaker 00

  So your break even point is a little bit longer, typically is what, like seven, 10 years?

• 20:30Speaker 03

  It used to be like five, six years. Now you're looking at like nine. Like the most recent one that I, the customer I helped this morning, um, his break even was nine years.

• 20:39Speaker 00

  So if you're staying in the house and this is your long-term home, it makes, it still makes sense because I don't think the price of utility or especially electricity is gonna go down.

• 20:48Speaker 03

  Well, it actually went up even more after N E M three. So the, the rate of increases is a lot bigger now. So increases of like studies, uh, there was an article out that, um, P G N E has actually gone up by forty percent over the last two and a half years. So the, the increases are, are bigger, so it's still very viable for people. Um, it's not just people paying cash and looking for an R O I of say nine years. Because if you do like a payment swap, for instance, if you finance a solar, you could still do that. And it still comes in at about the same or less than what you're paying the utility. So that's one thing to keep in mind with solar is that it's not a new bill in your life. You're just getting rid of a really big bill that keeps going up every year for one that's level.

• 21:32Speaker 00

  Throw out the next, whatever.

• 21:34Speaker 03

  It's really about, might be less savings now, but you're still taking control of what you're paying for electricity for the foreseeable future.

• 21:41Speaker 00

  So, so average homes, two thousand square foot, um, eight thousand square foot yard. What's the typical cost?

• 21:50Speaker 03

  You're looking typically, I mean, it's hard to say because everybody's usage is different, right? It, it, I could tell you the typical cost of a Toyota Camry, but I can't tell you how much you're gonna spend on gas because I don't know how much you drive.

• 22:01Speaker 00

  Got it.

• 22:01Speaker 03

  Right? So.

• 22:02Speaker 00

  That's a good answer. It's almost like you've had this question before. David has been doing this a while.

• 22:07Speaker 03

  Before, yeah. Um, but yeah, absolutely. So it, it's kinda hard to say because it's based on usage. So what I can tell you is the amount of, the amount of panels and batteries that you need to be able to, um, to be able to offset the usage and then pull, you know, very little or zero from, from P G N E's grid will always come out to be at, you know, right around the same, maybe even savings in a lot of, in a lot of situations for that, for that payment if you finance it.

• 22:35Speaker 00

  Financing, let's talk about financing just for a second. Are people still, are there ways to finance that directly with you or through like a third party? Do they have to go to a bank and take a second on their house?

• 22:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of different things. There are specific solar financing options that only licensed contractors can use, like approved contractors were one of them. And those loans are built specifically for solar. So you wouldn't have to put a lien on your home, no second, you don't pull that. Interest rates are okay. I mean, all the interest rates are not the best right now.

• 23:10Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 23:10Speaker 03

  But, you know, they're still good, even with the interest payment included, it still makes a lot of sense.

• 23:15Speaker 02

  So it's, a lot of people are looking at the cash flow. What am I paying right now to PG&E?

• 23:20Speaker 03

  Right.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  And if I paid even a similar bill on a, on a loan, a solar loan, at some point that loan goes away.

• 23:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  And then now I'm saving at that point.

• 23:29Speaker 03

  Absolutely. So if you're looking to buy what we call cash, it's not literal cash, but just pay it all upfront, you are looking at about an eight, nine year return on investment. Now, when you're financing solar, we're not talking ROI anymore. Now we're just talking, you could be cash flow positive month one, right? I was paying an average of $500 or $400 for PG&E. Now my new solar payment is going to be in the 300s.

• 23:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:54Speaker 03

  You know, just as an example.

• 23:56Speaker 00

  So your company does both residential and commercial?

• 23:59Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 24:00Speaker 00

  Now, does the commercial have the same requirement as the residential when it comes to the batteries?

• 24:04Speaker 03

  Um, no, but they do have the same plan as far as, there's no requirement, but it just wouldn't make financial sense because you're only getting the use out of the solar during the day while it's producing.

• 24:14Speaker 00

  So, so, so if, if your company, it still behooves you to have the

• 24:19Speaker 03

  Storage.

• 24:19Speaker 00

  Batteries.

• 24:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:21Speaker 00

  And what's the, like the prices? When it, when the idea first came out, when M3 came out, the batteries were very expensive.

• 24:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:28Speaker 00

  We were coming out of the COVID.

• 24:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:31Speaker 00

  They were not readily available.

• 24:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:33Speaker 00

  How is the situation today?

• 24:34Speaker 03

  So the, the climate on batteries is a lot better. Um, you know, manufacturers obviously ramped up because of the need for them. Um, the rest of the country, even though not being forced into it, is also Adopting storage because a lot of people want storage just when they look at the price. They're like, well, maybe it's not worth it for me yet, right? Um, so prices have come down on batteries. If you're looking at like battery prices by themselves, you're looking at like fifteen thousand for one. Or, you know, in in some cases, if you need to, then obviously the price isn't just double. It would be like right around the twenties.

• 25:07Speaker 00

  And we have US made batteries today?

• 25:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. So all with all the tariff talk, um, domestic content is a really big buzzword right now. So all the domestic con- all the battery manufacturers have switched to domestic content to be able to not have to raise prices for for tariff reasons. So we're talking Tesla now. Domestic content is a certain amount of percentage of the components have to be made in the USA. Um, Tesla is a California company, obviously. Um, and then Nphase is another one that we use, another big one that we use also a California.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  No, when you said Tesla, it made me think. I've heard that sometimes car batteries uh in a Tesla or I won't just pick on them. The uh the Prius, etc. Sometimes the batteries go bad. Is that the case with these?

• 25:53Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  Solar batteries too?

• 25:55Speaker 03

  And yeah, so they are warranted. Um, so there are ways to the manufacturer will give you on a Tesla ten year warranty on Nphase fifteen year warranty. Um, it's kind of like with everything after the warranty is over, you can expect issues. Um, we do have ways though to where the company itself will warranty it for longer. So for instance, at Nextphase, we opted to couple our um our batteries with an insurance prod- product that will actually extend your warranty to thirty years. Doesn't mean that the battery is going to be good for thirty years. It means you'll have a replacement already prayed for.

• 26:28Speaker 00

  Oh, that's cool.

• 26:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 26:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, I have Nphase on on on my house.

• 26:32Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah, Nphase is awesome. I have Nphase on my house too.

• 26:34Speaker 00

  The app is really, really cool. You can see what you're producing, what you're using, what's pulling from the batteries versus the grid. It's it's kind of neat.

• 26:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:41Speaker 00

  If you if you nerd out on stuff like that, definitely, definitely.

• 26:46Speaker 03

  When you first get it, it's like a new toy.

• 26:47Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 26:47Speaker 03

  You know, you're looking different times of the day. How much am I producing? Which means how much I'm saving, you know?

• 26:53Speaker 00

  So you're saying we're still, is it still good today to get a solar system? Even with the batteries, even with with, you know?

• 27:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, so solar is, I mean, we're talking tech. Tech is expensive, right? It's always been expensive. Solar paired with batteries is obviously more expensive. But when you look at the alternative, it always wins, right? The only thing more expensive than solar or an expensive battery is continuing to pay PG&E or any kind of utility. So, yes, it's expensive, but it still makes sense compared to the option.

• 27:25Speaker 00

  So, finance-wise, there's an additional benefit to solar, and that's the tax credit.

• 27:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:36Speaker 00

  So, your true

• 27:39Speaker 00

  cost

• 27:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:40Speaker 00

  might not be the fifteen grand. I'm just looking for a 2,000, 2,500 square foot house.

• 27:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:46Speaker 00

  It's thirty percent less than that.

• 27:48Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 27:49Speaker 00

  Is that correct? Can you walk us through that?

• 27:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, right now it is. So, let's just use round numbers. If a system costs thirty thousand, you will get a tax credit of nine thousand as of right now. All this big, beautiful bill talk going on. One of the line items is renewable and is solar specifically. And that tax credit, now, how it's gonna look or what days or where the project starts or not, they're gonna take away the tax credit. And that's actually set to be gone at the end of this year.

• 28:21Speaker 00

  In the bill that we're

• 28:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 28:24Speaker 00

  trying to vote on.

• 28:25Speaker 03

  Right now.

• 28:25Speaker 00

  The beautiful bill.

• 28:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:27Speaker 00

  All right.

• 28:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, so that's a

• 28:29Speaker 00

  I snuck my system in.

• 28:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, you did. So, everyone that has got it and has a tax credit, whether they've used it all up or not, it's already safe. Anyone who does solar this year will also be safe.

• 28:42Speaker 00

  That's very interesting. I have a lot more questions, so I want to take another break. And when we come back, I want to ask more questions about the impact

• 28:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 28:50Speaker 00

  We'll be right back.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  Are you nearing retirement and currently working with a financial advisor? Are you not sure if you're invested appropriately? Call our offices at 661-847-1000 to sit down with a MoneyWise financial advisor for a no-obligation assessment.

• 29:14Speaker 00

  Thanks, Steven. I was gonna make some comments about the Dolphins because our new friend here, David, is a Steelers fan. And he said, I told him we're a Dolphins fan. He said, well, nobody's perfect.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Especially Aaron Rodgers, you guys will learn.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  Definitely. We're back. We're very excited for the next segment. We started talking about solar with David and costs and what have you. Now, David, you told us that the new beautiful bill, big beautiful bill, might take away the tax credit.

• 29:48Speaker 03

  Oh, it will.

• 29:49Speaker 00

  It will, if it's voted on.

• 29:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:51Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 29:51Speaker 02

  In its current state.

• 29:53Speaker 03

  In its current state. I mean, the only thing that they're going back and forth on is like timelines. Like, the original one that was passed by the, um, by the House, um, wanted it to stop immediately, like as soon as the bill is signed. I think the latest version is like end of the year.

• 30:11Speaker 00

  So, so for people that might be on like, just, just, just like, hey, do I need solar? Do I not need solar? Should this convince them that, yes, you need solar?

• 30:21Speaker 03

  Yes, this is the time to look into it for sure. I mean, you know, I can't sit here and say that everyone, it's going to make sense for everyone. But if you've ever wondered if it would make sense for you, this is the time to look now, um, because after this, it's just going to cost 30% more.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  Because that's the amount of the tax credit, that's 30%.

• 30:41Speaker 03

  And then the tax credit indirect, uh, affects both people buying the system. And even if people wanted to do a power purchase agreement, it affects them too, because the company is able to offer that lower rate per month because of the tax credit.

• 30:55Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 30:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. So it's, it affects anyone looking into solar.

• 30:59Speaker 00

  So is that, is that like the, the doom? Are we entering into a doom era of solar?

• 31:05Speaker 03

  I would call it another major adjustment. So we've been, this, this whole tax credit thing has been, I've been in solar for 11 years, and it's been a topic every two to three years. Um, it gets, it keeps getting extended, keeps getting extended. Except for now, it seems like it's run its course, for sure.

• 31:22Speaker 00

  That's unfortunate, because it's, it's truly, I mean, I have three batteries in my house, so I, I.

• 31:29Speaker 02

  So you're on the NIM 3?

• 31:30Speaker 00

  I, I am on the NIM 3, uh, and, and I like it because I, I become independent of the grid. Like, for the system, I paid for the, a big system, because I wanted to be independent of the grid.

• 31:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:43Speaker 00

  And because I also knew, I read that PG&E is not going to stop increasing rates.

• 31:48Speaker 03

  They won't.

• 31:49Speaker 00

  I mean, you said forty percent in the last five years?

• 31:51Speaker 03

  No, two and a half years. The last two years have been increases like we haven't seen in a long, long time.

• 31:58Speaker 02

  You know, we actually got a message about that. Let me read it. PG&E prices have increased since we got solar two years ago. Now our solar company wants us to add more panels, which seems a little suspicious. Are other solar companies using rising utility rates as a sales tactic? Feels like they're targeting older customers with this approach is what they said. That's not my comment.

• 32:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's fine. Great question. That's actually a really good question, a common one. So let's talk about people that already have solar and are in NEM2 right now. Okay? If you don't use extra power from the grid, you don't need more panels. So I'll give you an example. The rates could go up by a hundred percent. If you're not buying them from them, it doesn't matter for you.

• 32:37Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 32:37Speaker 03

  Now, the way NEM2 worked is basically like this. They take a look at two numbers. How much you produce for the year versus how much you use. If the number that you use is bigger than what you produced, you're paying PG&E at the current rate for that amount of power. Now, if that, if your usage never increases, but that amount is still subject to the rate increases, you'll see that true-up bill continue to go up. Okay? Now, needing panels has very little, needing additional panels has very little to do with the rate that PG&E is charging for the extra power. It has more to do with getting to a hundred percent solar where you're not using any of their power. So their rate increases don't apply to you to begin with.

• 33:20Speaker 00

  So if you got sold a small system, maybe that's what I think they are maybe reaching out to. It's like, hey, we did not give you the full system. You're not at a hundred percent. We can, with these additional panels, you can get to a hundred percent.

• 33:36Speaker 02

  Well, I could see that happening for a couple of reasons. You know, one, maybe they didn't budget the extra cost upfront that they actually needed. And two, David, you've probably seen this a lot. People get a little button happy on that thermostat when they've got solar. It's like, oh. We used to keep it at seventy-eight. I think seventy-five feels a little better.

• 33:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, and one of the things is that people need, you know, it's important for everyone to understand that. There are so many reasons why you would be using more today than you have in the past. We had a record summer last year, number one. Number two is that you could, there's a lot of people in different situations. You bought a home that already has solar that wasn't designed for your family's needs. So you use more than the previous family, so you will be paying more, you'll be paying to PG&E the extra. Another thing is when you buy a new build home, they put the state required minimums on those, on those homes.

• 34:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, what, ten, twelve panels?

• 34:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, it depends. I've seen as low as eight in some cases, ten, twelve, whatever the case is. Some of them already came with your home, but that doesn't mean that. And then it's crazy because nobody explains. I bought a new build as well and I was just kind of waiting to see what the solar process would be like. Cause I wanted to see what the issues are out there. And nobody talked to me about anything. They just said, sign here, sign here, sign here. And I can imagine for someone that's never had solar before, how we could think. Well, I have solar panels up there, so that means I could just do whatever I want, right? Some people added pools, some people switched to electric vehicle and charge at home. So whatever makes that number be higher than the production level, we're on the hook with PG&E for the rest of that.

• 35:12Speaker 03

  So we add, we add panels for tons of customers and it's not always like a horrible experience. People know they need to add more because they're just going to be using more.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  I've got a question I don't, I haven't heard asked before.

• 35:22Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 35:22Speaker 02

  And you probably have gotten it. Uh, there's leases, there's PPA, which is a version of a lease is the way I understand it. There's purchasing. Can somebody ever have a blend? Let's say they, they bought that new home and it had some owned solar on it. Can they add a lease or a PPA or do they have to purchase more panels?

• 35:40Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, typically when you're adding to your, to your home, um, you wanna, you wanna buy them. Yeah, typically when you're adding. I'll give you an example. My home, um, came with a, with a lease from the builder, okay? They partnered up with the, with a solar company. So my house came with a lease on it. The second set of panels that I put on to actually cover all my usage, um, that one I purchased myself. Now.

• 36:06Speaker 03

  Whether you do a purchase or a power purchase agreement, whether you do ownership or just a power purchase agreement, really just depends on where your finances are. Can I take advantage of that tax credit or not? Do I want a level payment? Do I not want to worry about warranties? Those are the real reasons. It really just comes down to like a tax question and in most cases, personal preference.

• 36:29Speaker 02

  You've been in the industry for a while now.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  I said over 10 years. Are these holding up their efficiency like we expected? Like, are they producing similar amounts of power as they did, say, 10 years ago? What's that looking like these days?

• 36:41Speaker 03

  They're producing a lot. They're producing a lot more today. I'll give you an example. One panel produces more than two did when I got into this industry. So it doesn't, so, you know, a lot of people make the, you know, common mistake of just, it's all about panel count. It's really about how much they can actually produce.

• 36:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:59Speaker 03

  Right?

• 36:59Speaker 00

  So some of these new panels are producing.

• 37:01Speaker 03

  Producing a lot better.

• 37:02Speaker 00

  They're a little bit more efficient.

• 37:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:04Speaker 00

  Now, that leads me to my next question. We had during COVID especially, most of the panels were imported from China. Is that still the case today? Are we producing US panels today?

• 37:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, no, no. A lot of companies have moved to the US. We stick to panels that are made here in the US. At the very least assembled here. I'll give you an example, a popular panel, Q cell. It's like German engineering, Korean cells and manufactured and built here in Georgia in the United States.

• 37:33Speaker 00

  That's cool.

• 37:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. Aptos is another one that's here, local to California.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  And you know, going back to my question, I actually think I worded it wrong. What I was trying to say is have they lost their efficiency over time?

• 37:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  Meaning the product that you buy today, is it going to produce about as much power?

• 37:51Speaker 03

  So that's a degradation question.

• 37:53Speaker 02

  Degradation.

• 37:53Speaker 03

  Yeah. And yes, the panels are far more efficient today than they used to be, meaning they degrade, their degradation rate is a lot less today. I'll give you an example, like the panel that we're using right now in 25 years is guaranteed to still produce 88% of the power that it produces in year one.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  Oh, they put a number to it.

• 38:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's huge, right?

• 38:14Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 38:15Speaker 03

  Yeah. 10 years ago, the linear degradation could have been 50% over the course of 20 to 25 years.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 38:21Speaker 03

  Meaning, so, so they are a lot more, they're a lot more efficient in the ways that they produce more per cell and they hold that production longer.

• 38:30Speaker 02

  Oh, that's good.

• 38:31Speaker 00

  We have another comment. Did you say his business is called Next Phase Solar? Are they new in town? I'm sorry, Steve-O. I'm Steelers fan too, but I do like Tua.

• 38:40Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 38:41Speaker 00

  I didn't want to miss this question. It was very important for me to read.

• 38:43Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Yeah, so Next Phase Electric. Yeah, we're a local, we're a local company. We're not new. We like to say we're Bakersfield's like best kept secret. We never really did much marketing. We've actually done 5,000 solar, residential solar installs in California. Over 3,000 of those are right here in Kern County. But we were always just the installer. So October of last year, we actually started to do in-house sales and in-house installation. We've always done the installation. We just brought in an in-house sales team.

• 39:14Speaker 02

  That's about the time you joined the company, isn't it?

• 39:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  Are you the in-house sales team?

• 39:17Speaker 03

  I am the guy. Yeah.

• 39:18Speaker 00

  So you do installation as well as solar?

• 39:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, we do it all in-house. So that's one of the unique things. We're not the only ones. There's a couple of really good companies here in town.

• 39:25Speaker 00

  Do you do roofing as well?

• 39:26Speaker 03

  Um, no, we don't do roofing. We don't do roofing as well. We're, we're one-trick pony when it comes to residential solar and we're just really, really good at that one trick.

• 39:35Speaker 00

  That's nice. I call, I call that the In-N-Out model.

• 39:38Speaker 03

  There you go. That's actually what we talk about all the time.

• 39:41Speaker 00

  Do it right.

• 39:41Speaker 03

  I learned a lot from working at In-N-Out.

• 39:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, you worked at In-N-Out too?

• 39:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, in college. Yeah. Very process oriented. I mean, you could go to any In-N-Out at any given moment and they're all doing the same thing at the exact same time. It's beautiful to see.

• 39:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is.

• 39:54Speaker 00

  All right. Well, David, thank you so much for coming in today. We're gonna take our last break, but before that, thanks for coming. Great conversation.

• 40:02Speaker 03

  Yes, absolutely.

• 40:03Speaker 00

  We'll definitely want you back to talk, especially after the passing of the bill. So we'll, we'll keep you posted.

• 40:08Speaker 03

  Sure. Yeah, we'll know exactly what it looks like after that. Thanks for having me, guys.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  Don't forget, Money Wise is more than a radio show. We're an independently owned, local wealth management firm with 60-plus years of collective experience. Our financial advisors are here to help you, Kern County. Together, let's be smart, be safe, be money wise.

• 40:31Speaker 00

  Nice to meet him. We're back.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  I like that.

• 40:35Speaker 00

  Sami Abiyawi with Dustin Weaver here.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 40:37Speaker 00

  Money Wise Show off Stockdale Highway. That was a very good conversation.

• 40:42Speaker 02

  Very good.

• 40:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, he was really good to talk to, a lot of good information. So definitely want him back on the show to talk, especially after the bill passes or not passes.

• 40:51Speaker 02

  Definitely. Yeah, it sounds like that bill can have an impact for sure.

• 40:53Speaker 00

  Yep. We have a couple more questions, Dustin. One of them is words of advice on someone who wants to transition from accountant slash CPA to financial advisor.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Ooh, good question.

• 41:05Speaker 00

  Very good question.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  You're looking at me.

• 41:07Speaker 00

  I'm looking at you.

• 41:08Speaker 02

  Yep. Well, I have never been an accountant, but I knew, I do know several of them. So I have an idea of some of the similarities and maybe some differences. So a lot of accountants and CPAs, well, depending on the work that you do, you're potentially already working with people and talking about financial matters. So that's a win, right? So a transition might not be super difficult. There are a lot of other things that are covered beyond taxes, obviously, as a

• 41:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  comprehensive financial planning relationship. Yes. And different products and services and portfolios. And really it depends on your level of interest, what route you go. You know, you hear the term financial advisor, that can mean a lot of different things. There's financial advisors that work for insurance companies and focus on insurance and insurance products, right? There's financial advisors that can work for a big company like a Vanguard or Fidelity, right? There's places that have a lot of clients and they need someone to service them.

• 42:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, especially if somebody with that expertise too. It comes in handy.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 42:14Speaker 00

  Especially on the tax side.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  I think somebody with tax knowledge could be a great part of a team.

• 42:20Speaker 00

  One of the few occasions I'm going to disagree with you, Dustin.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Oh, tell me more.

• 42:24Speaker 00

  And say, why would you transition from CPA into a financial advisor? When we know that 70% of the CPA workforce is retiring, exiting the industry? And there's huge need for CPAs right now, especially because we have multiple, we had multiple CPAs on the show telling us that there's a huge need for talent. So if these people are exiting and retiring or, and we have this need, then there will be plenty of business to go around. Maybe people get, there are.

• 42:56Speaker 00

  Rumors that CPAs get burned out.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 42:59Speaker 00

  You know, because of the tax season and amount of work.

• 43:04Speaker 02

  So you're thinking about supply and demand.

• 43:06Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  You're thinking opportunity is abounding for accountants.

• 43:10Speaker 00

  That's cr- that's a great way of putting it.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  So what do you say to the person that did hit that burnout?

• 43:15Speaker 00

  My-

• 43:16Speaker 02

  That does see, you know what, I like the work and yes, there's upside, but, or maybe they don't like the work. Maybe that's the rub.

• 43:23Speaker 00

  So in my conversations with CPAs, I think the, what CPA is, the trap is they don't create a niche or niche for themselves. What do they want to focus on? Do they want to do tax returns? Is that a tax return business type of CPA firm? Or is it a advisory type of CPA firm? To me, if I'm an advisory type of CPA firm, I'm working with business owners. It's a lot more rewarding in my opinion than just doing tax returns for individuals.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  Well, and as you described that, it's a lot like, I mean, the financial advisory seat. We're doing a lot of, especially if you're a good planner, a lot of forward looking goals and projections rather than just backwards looking, like preparing a return from what's already happened.

• 44:13Speaker 00

  Yes, I agree. And look, I'm not talking the person out of becoming a financial advisor. That's the industry I'm in today. I'm not a financial advisor, but I work for a financial advisor firm. I'm just saying, the industry is such a dire need of CPAs. There's plenty of opportunities to create, I think, the life that a person would want.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 44:34Speaker 00

  Right?

• 44:35Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 44:35Speaker 00

  So that's why I'm disagreeing with you.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  You know, it's, it's to each their own.

• 44:42Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  I would encourage this accountant or CPA person, hey, reach out to me personally. I'd be happy to share with you my perspective. I've worked a couple of places and a couple of different environments and

• 44:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:52Speaker 02

  interview some other advisors, five or 10 of them, and really get a sense for, you know, what's it like?

• 44:57Speaker 00

  Well, that's a great advice. And with that, Stephen.

• 45:09Speaker 00

  Moneywise

• 45:16Speaker 04

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