5/13/25 From Rite Aid's Collapse to Tejon Ranch's Future: Smart Spending on What Matters

The Moneywise Radio Show and Podcast Tuesday, May 13th BE MONEYWISE. Moneywise Wealth Management I "The Moneywise Guys" podcast call: 661-847-1000 text in anytime: 661-396-1000 website: www. MoneywiseGuys.com facebook: Moneywise_Wealth_Manageme instagram: MoneywiseWealthManagement Guest: John Cox, Business Editor for the Bakersfield Californian website: www. Bakersfield.com

• 0:00Speaker 00

  From the Garo Ellis padded radio room off Stockdale Highway, here is Money Wise. Call or text into the show 24/7 at 396-1000.

• 0:39Speaker 00

  Here is Money Wise. Money, money, money, money.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  Welcome to the Money Wise Show. We are live from the Garo Ellis padded radio room off Stockdale Highway on ESPN Bakersfield, 1230 a.m., 101.1 FM, and always streaming at MoneyWiseGuys.com. You can call or text into the show 24 hours a day at 661-396-1000. Today, we're your hosts. I'm Sharad Waite and...

• 1:04Speaker 02

  Dustin Weaver.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  Hey Dustin.

• 1:06Speaker 02

  Hello.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  Great having you to this day.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  It's great to be back.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  We've got great weather out there and a lot to talk about. We're going to have a great guest, a recurring guest, John Cox from the Big Show California. And he is the business editor. He really does everything over there. He's a reporter, longtime business editor, and excited to talk to him about some things that are happening in town.

• 1:31Speaker 02

  Definitely. Oh, he always has the most articles, for sure.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's very prolific in his writing, and he's written about a few things that I'm really curious about. So, looking forward to John Cox.

• 1:42Speaker 02

  That'll be great.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  So, if you've got any questions or comments, you can send them our way anytime. It doesn't have to be during the show. Many of our listeners are listening on our podcast or in podcast format, which means it can be, it can be at any time. Yeah, well, look at this.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  Walk by with a purse on.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  So here in the padded radio room, if you've never been by our office, it's basically in the front lobby.

• 2:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  So it's surrounded by glass. You can see-

• 2:10Speaker 02

  It's a fishbowl.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  It's a fishbowl. You gotta see everything. Yesterday with Sammy, we had a squirrel coming in from the parking lot. And this squirrel's gotten super comfortable here in the office.

• 2:20Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. He was in this morning again, too.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  Did he get down to your office?

• 2:23Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  He's starting to make the rounds. It's like, gosh, this squirrel's way too comfortable.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  They may have even named him.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think he's got a name, or she.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, right.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  Well, anyway, speaking of listeners, we've got a couple of messages when we get right to it. You got it, Dustin?

• 2:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, somebody asked about the app you all were talking about. What's the app you guys were discussing that helps with intake and losing weight?

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Okay, so yesterday you were not on the show, Dustin. It was me and Sammy. And we were talking about Weight Watchers going out of business. And then the cost that led to the discussion on the cost of obesity, which studies show it's about, oh, a hundred, a hundred and twenty-five dollars a month. Or, you know, call it twelve hundred dollars to fifteen hundred dollars a year in extra healthcare costs. And so Weight Watchers, which is, I think is around fifty bucks a month.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  That sounds about right.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like, okay, this is a pretty good deal. But then I also interjected my own personal experience of losing weight about 10 years ago. And I used an app, very similar to Weight Watchers. But it was, and I'll just say the app, it was MyFitnessPal. Oh, yeah, I've heard of that one. I think it's still, I just checked. I haven't logged into my account in a few years, but I checked. Oh, yeah, I still have it. All my statistics are still there, my chart.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  And-

• 3:42Speaker 02

  You took selfies, too, right?

• 3:44Speaker 01

  I would take selfies.

• 3:45Speaker 02

  Daily pictures?

• 3:45Speaker 01

  It wasn't daily, but once a week when I do my weigh-in, then I would take the picture on the app.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  It's funny that you brought that up, because I did pull that clip from Saturday Night Live over the weekend.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Oh, did you?

• 3:55Speaker 03

  Weight Watchers said that it is filing for bankruptcy protection to eliminate more than one billion dollars in debt. But you know, they're just gonna gain it all back.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  That's great. Oh, that's really good. That is great. Yeah. Yeah. So there's MyFitnessPal is what you use.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  MyFitnessPal.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  I've heard of Noom too. Anyone use that?

• 4:14Speaker 01

  I haven't heard. It rings a bell a little bit, but I'm guessing it's similar to MyFitnessPal, which, or even Weight Watchers, which is, it's just a tracking app.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  It's something, it's like a diary, a diet diary. And it helps you keep track of how much carbs, how much calories, protein that you're taking in, that you should be taking in if you, based on whatever goal you've put in. So you can put in your measurements and then, you know, what your goal weight is. And then, and how much time you want to take to get to that goal.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  I see it just like personal finance. If you're paying attention to it, you're gonna have an impact.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  That's, yeah, 100%.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  It helps you stay accountable.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. Then that's what it, that's why it probably worked for me is because it's the same way that I view finances. Like, well, if you want to make, if you want to make money, okay, we've just got to save more than you spend. Okay. How do you do that? Well, you just, you gotta be aware of it. Like, how much are you spending? How much are you saving? Simple, right? And then you can, you know, check your statement every once in a while. You know, it all made sense for me. And so I attacked weight loss in the same way. I was like, okay, well, I'm exercising and I've always been active. I've always been, you know, involved in outdoor activities and moving and exercise. And I was still not losing any weight. So it was a shock to me

• 5:40Speaker 01

  once I realized how much I was taking in versus how much I was burning. And then how much I would have to burn versus what I wanted to take in. And that's what Weight Watchers is really good at. It's just like a point system.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  You know, with all these, I mean, I have a very math oriented brain. So for me, I resonate with that idea, right? It's, you're burning so much and you're putting so many in and there's either extra or you're burning more than you take, right?

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  So.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  It's, I wish it was that easy. I mean, it was still really hard for me, but, but it worked. It worked. And, and so good luck with that, listener. Let's get to the next one. This is a little different.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it wasn't quite a question. It was more of a story. It says, here's a letter from a retiree to my adult child. I am trying very hard at this time of almost age 70 to not be your problem later in life. Come what may, for instance, if I find myself later all by myself, I need to take care of these things. Get my financial ducks in a row so that I can do the following. Stay out of assisted living, stay out of memory care, Alzheimer's care. It will serve me well to have great relationships with my friends and close neighbors. I need to take care of my physical and mental health. In other words, if I am able to do the above things with success, I will be able to live on my own with success. What do I ask of

• 7:01Speaker 02

  you, my right hand girl? Please stay with, please stay with me so I can stay on track and have the life I want in my later years.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  This is really sweet. I thought, you know, this, you and I before the show, we both read this and my, my first thought was, I've heard this sentiment so many times from clients.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  And I can echo these same sentiments. I have three boys, adult children. I don't want to be a burden to them ever.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  And that's the word that comes to mind.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  Most folks, that's the word they use.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  Don't want to be a burden.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and the things that this listener brought up, so this is again, somebody in their seventies and it's almost, I kind of read it just like they're just sharing their, their thoughts, you know, their inner feelings and their fears. And the way, the things that they're concerned about, very common be concerned about basically assisted living or memory care. Nobody wants to like get to the point where you just, you can't, you can't function. You don't know what's going on.

• 7:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  You know, our sanity is so, so important.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  That's what makes number four so impactful when they said, having great relationships with close friends and close neighbors, right?

• 8:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  So if you do need that memory care, you have that situation.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  Those are the things that go first and that's tough.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  It's so tough. And, and studies show, and we've seen this for some people who go into retirement and become reclusive, you, your health generally declines. You want to stay involved and connected to a community, to be out there with people. We're social beings, we're social species.

• 8:31Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  And it, it brings a lot of health benefits to us to make sure that we are, we, we, we maintain connections and, and, and keep connected. To people and keep close relationships and and other types of relationships. So the fact the listener recognize that look, it it it will serve me well, they say, to have great relationships with my friends and close neighbors. And I needed to get my, take care of my physical and mental health. And that's all you can really do, you know, to stay healthy, stay connected to people. The idea of staying connected to people also, I have found, I don't know if you've, this ever happened to you, but like, when, did, did your wife ever take the kids away?

• 9:14Speaker 01

  And you had just the maybe a few days or or, you know, period of time where you're by yourself?

• 9:19Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. And at first it's like, oh, it's a reprieve, it's a break.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  It's so fun.

• 9:23Speaker 02

  Like, about a day later.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  You start to get weird a little. I do, I get weird and I, you know, it's like, you start getting in your head a little bit and you're like, oh, I gotta get out. You know, I gotta, I gotta like, talk to people and.

• 9:36Speaker 02

  Gotta get the words out.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, open the curtains, you know, and and like do something and I could see how that could happen slower over time, you know, for for for some people. And so, but it takes effort, you know, to get, get out there and remain social and connected to people.

• 9:54Speaker 02

  You know, being in financial planning for over, what, 16, 17 years now, I feel like the more conversations I have with people about how to spend money. Really, people are the happiest when they're spending money with the people they care about.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:07Speaker 02

  So it really is about relationships and memories and.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:11Speaker 02

  What better way to spend money than on, you know, memories rather than just more stuff?

• 10:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, 100%. And there's, there's certain studies, you might be more familiar with them or remember them better than me. But there are studies that actually show that the value of spending money on experiences versus stuff. Turn out to be far better for our mental health.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Every time.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  And a part of it is that hedonic treadmill that you get on when you buy something new. It, it gives you sort of, you know, a few months of that, that dopamine or whatever it is.

• 10:47Speaker 02

  Not even that, they, I saw that with a new car, it's like, it has that luster for about a week.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  And then it's.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  And also, along the same vein is the idea of, you know, you have, you have.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Big wins in life, like you win the lottery, or you have a big windfall of money. And you also have things in life that are tragic, that are horrible, like you lose a limb, or you lose a love, somebody dies that's close to you. Both of those are extreme events that can shock, can shake your, what you would normally consider sort of your baseline level of peace and of peace, or of happiness, contentment. Yeah. And, you know, it's, we all have up days and down days, but you certainly have this sort of this baseline, and then sometimes these big events happen. And that is also temporary. And not that you don't ever, you know, completely heal from that loved one, but you do get

• 11:47Speaker 01

  back to a certain, pretty close to that same baseline, whether it's good or bad. So the same thing happens, you know, you buy that new car, or you won the lottery, it's not going to last for very long, you're going to go right back to where that baseline is. And you hope that you can, you can adjust that, you can affect that baseline somewhat by doing some of these things our listener mentioned, you know, relationships, mental health, physical health, but.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  All good things.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:16Speaker 02

  But this is also a good reminder of, you know, this person wrote these things down, a lot of others around us may be thinking it and not saying anything about it. So just being mindful of, hey, how do I serve my family well that's in this age bracket that might be thinking about these things?

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Right, yeah.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  You know, because as this person mentioned, you know, what do I ask of you? You know, just help me the best you can to keep going, right? Please help me stay on track.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's really sweet. Thank you for that message, listener. Hopefully, hopefully you're, you're listening, you heard this. We've got another one here, real quick, why don't we take it before our break?

• 12:54Speaker 02

  Are the Rite Aid's closing in town? Wondering if I need to find a new place to use to get my medicine.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Rite Aid, I don't know if you knew this, just the other day, announced another bankruptcy.

• 13:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I saw the headline.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  It's really crazy. Too bad, you know, for Rite Aid, but also I have a Rite Aid by our house. It's, you know, I would occasionally pick up our prescription there, too. So it's going to be some inconvenience because my understanding is that this, they're going to be selling off these properties and likely are going away. I don't know. I think it may be too early in the bankruptcy process, but, and according to their website, I think they had, at least as of a few days ago, listed the properties that they for sure are closing down. And I checked, I didn't see any in Bakersfield. But I would be surprised if they stay open.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  They're always prime locations, right? They're on the corner of busy streets. So my curiosity would say, you know, what else is going to go in there? Is it going to turn into a Walgreens or something else?

• 13:59Speaker 01

  There was, I, maybe it was from their previous bankruptcy, but I think it was a Rite Aid on Rosedale and Callaway that is right there by doors. I think it's that same intersection. So the same corner where doors is.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  Oh, it's a shoe store now.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  It's a shoe store now. Yeah. And I thought, well, they did a good job at DSW or I don't remember the name of the shoe store, but.

• 14:18Speaker 02

  WSS?

• 14:19Speaker 01

  WSS.

• 14:19Speaker 02

  It was a CVS?

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Oh, maybe that was a CVS.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Warehouse shoe store, maybe? WSS?

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe that's it. WSS. Yeah.

• 14:28Speaker 02

  I know we have a Rite Aid right around the corner by the other doors.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Out there.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Out on that side of town. I mean, some of these places have to be profitable. Some of the stores, and it's like every store is failing. It's just as a corporation, that's the classic story of too much debt and just not enough revenues. They've been hit with a couple of big lawsuits around the opioid prescription stuff. And that, those two things have really hit them.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  And I don't know how big this last one is, but you keep hearing about theft, too, being an issue.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  A lot of stores.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  What do they call that? Shrinkage?

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Shrink.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  Shrink.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  Or shrinkage, yeah.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was that, it was all in the, in the earnings calls of a lot of these companies during COVID because there was a big spike of just, just after or short to the tail end of COVID where. There's a lot of shrink.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember hearing that word growing up. My dad worked in the grocery business. That's what they called it. And it even a little bit has a big impact. I heard that one of the local Walmarts, I mean, it was almost like maybe a million dollars worth of stuff in a year, just from one location.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  Holy smoke.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  With the grocery business, they're operating on three to 4% margins. There's not a lot of extra. You think that maybe they're making all this money, but you know, when you're paying union wages with union benefits and you have a lot of staff.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  You know, there's a reason that some stores are more expensive than others for that reason. And there's not a huge margin.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  And then there's only so much that you can do if somebody just runs in and grabs something and walks out. Like you're, you're, you're told to not try to stop, not touch them. Don't do any, you know, you basically have to just.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  Wave on the way out.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Call security.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  Smile and nod.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  It's like, oh, that would be.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  I remember growing up right around the corner, there used to be an Albertson's off of Ming, right by Toys R Us. And there was a Best across the street. And I remember me and my mom were walking in and a guy had stole a big bottle of wine and ran across the street and one of the busboys chased him and he got hit in the head with the bottle of wine.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness.

• 16:38Speaker 00

  And he came back in a big old welt on his head and the manager told him, we tell you over and over, do not chase over a $10 bottle of wine.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:48Speaker 00

  You're just learning the lesson wrong and with big old welt on his head.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's just, it's painful to be standing there going, what are you doing, you jerk?

• 16:58Speaker 02

  Right.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  You can't do anything. You just gotta walk, watch him walk out and minimize him, get away with it.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Sorry. Sorry about that, Rite Aid.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  That's all right. We got some exciting stuff coming up. We got John after the, after the next break.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're gonna take a break now. We'll come back.

• 17:13Speaker 00

  Need to get your financial fix on the go? If so, subscribe to the Money Wise Podcast and catch up on all past shows whenever.

• 17:23Speaker 04

  John Cox. He's a man of a million words. John Cox. He's the king of the business nerds. Looks like Jimmy Elson from Superman, but a little bit taller and a bit of a tan. John Cox. He's from Bakersfield, California. John Cox. Likes stories and credit unions. It's a good thing that he's only on the radio air, or else you'd be distracted by his dark glowing hair. John Cox.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  That's the theme song.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  Love that theme song.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  It's so great.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  I've never asked about where that was created.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  Uh, it was, uh, so I think Paul Anderson, you know, that who used to be here.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  And he got that song, he commissioned it from Fiverr.

• 18:07Speaker 02

  Oh, from Fiverr?

• 18:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:08Speaker 02

  That was the best five bucks we ever spent.

• 18:10Speaker 01

  I think he gave, obviously he gave the, the artist, you know, some, some information about John that he wanted, that she could use for the, for the song.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  Oh, that's great.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  And it just stuck.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  We, we had several back in the day and this was the only one that made the cut.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, some of them were terrible.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  We, we had some really bad ones.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, we should revisit, you know, Fiverr. It's still around.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  Uh, it's, that's really great. John, thanks for being on the show again.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  You got it. Thanks for having me.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Let's get right into the Tahone Ranch, uh, uh, board activism proxy fight that's happening. It, it took another turn last week when two state senators, two members of the assembly and three Kern County supervisors together called for, uh, wrote a letter, basically. And, and basically are, are, from what I read, telling people to vote with the board. Don't vote with these activists, board members. So what, what did you give, can you give like a brief background?

• 19:12Speaker 02

  Sure. Um, so this, that was a very significant move in this whole, uh, timeline of, of what's gone on, what it led up to. Today's vote is actually happening today's deadline to turn in your vote. If you are a shareholder. Uh, as of like March, I think was the cutoff date.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  And, and we're not going to know the result for a few days. So I don't have any update for you today. Uh, but that letter arrived on Friday, but it was preceded, uh, four days earlier by another interesting, uh, and I think, uh, significant occurrence, which was. The opponents, the people who are trying to unseat three board members and put in three of their own so that they can change the direction of the company, they had enlisted some allies in the fight, two different investor groups that sort of sided with them, taking, you know, this position that, hey, the stock really isn't doing much and we can do something

• 20:15Speaker 02

  about that. And then, and that I think came on, one of those on a Friday, was it of two weeks ago or a week and a half ago, and then on Monday, the company came back and suddenly announced that there have been some meetings with some groups that represent 51% or more of the company's outstanding shares, and they made some concessions. The company, you know, after all this, you know, time and this drama, because, you know, this isn't just this year, this dates back to, you know, some of these concerns are many years old, but this dates back more than a year to another sort of proxy fight. And one of the things

• 21:00Speaker 02

  that they agreed was that they're going to have an annual Investor Day and really sort of open up, and there's going to be, you know, more disclosure, more sort of exposure of the company. For example, Tohone Ranch does not, does not host a quarterly earnings day, you know, and I remember asking in the past, hey, can I talk to one of the analysts that follows your company? They said, well, we don't have any. There is, there's nobody. And I think that's still the case, but this is one of the things the investors and the activists would like to see more of, although really, one of the big things that the activists are looking for is to jettison and not, I guess I should be careful on how I characterize

• 21:42Speaker 02

  it, because there has been some question of whether, you know, it would actually be sort of liquidating all the work on Tohone Mountain Village, on Centennial, on Grapevine, the three of the four mass plan communities. But certainly, they want those to be downplayed and really focus on where the real, you know, obvious sort of current energy is, which is the Tohone Ranch Commerce Center, the distribution centers.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  Distribution centers and warehouses.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  And warehouses.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  So we're talking about the three directors are from the New Jersey-based private equity firm Bulldog Investors.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  I'm assuming that the rest of the board is, don't agree, or that's where the schism is.

• 22:25Speaker 02

  Absolutely. The company is concerned that if you get those new board members, they will take the company in a new direction away from hundreds of millions of dollars that have already been invested in entitling and moving forward, designing these new master plan communities. And the activists who bought in last year and then increased their stake earlier this year said, no, we don't, we don't think that's the way to go. That's not where the value is. And clearly, you're not doing enough to maximize value because the price is about what it was 40 years ago. And that's true.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  This is, this is very fascinating to me because I can see how you have, there is a problem with publicly traded companies in the requirement to report their earnings every quarter, report all of their financials.

• 23:12Speaker 02

  Right.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  Every quarter. And there can be a hyper focus on what, short-term gains, basically. You know, they're, they're, they're quarter by quarter, maybe year by year, but after a while, the impatience grows and by shareholders, generally speaking. Unless the shareholders have bought into other value that they're receiving or they expect to receive from this, like in this case, maybe the value is the improvement to our valley by, you know, creating new communities that, you know, are going to benefit our economy.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  So I hadn't heard much about this before today. So am I hearing it right that maybe some outside money came in and they, those folks bought enough that they're trying to flex what leverage or power they have because of that new ownership?

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. And kick out some of the board members and bring in others that align with them.

• 24:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  You know, which is, they kind of want to do away with the development side and focus more on the, the warehousing and.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  Commercial side of things, right? Is that right, John?

• 24:21Speaker 05

  Yes, they definitely are more interested in that part that we, you know, when you're driving south on Interstate 5, you go by the outlets and all those warehouses. That is where Bulldog sees the real value of the company and focusing attention there and not focusing so much on making sure that, you know, that there's a start on Tohone Mountain Village and Centennial further south. And so this, this proxy battle is partly over that right there. And so it's understandable then that the Board of Supervisors, the, you know, locally elected politicians would say, hey, wait a minute, we've got a stake in this. There's a lot of housing. The future of our community really does have to do with Tohone Ranch.

• 25:03Speaker 05

  It is a huge property, largest privately owned contiguous property in the state. And so they want, these politicians have a stake in seeing the development of the community. They're also, you know, Tohone Ranch is not everywhere, but they are really kind of behind the scenes of a lot. In Kern County, I would say that they're pretty well known. A lot of those folks live in Bakersfield.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:26Speaker 05

  And so, you know, they are a pretty big player around here. So when they, you know, I assume they made a call to the Board of Supervisors and other folks saying, would you be willing to support us on this? And the answer was yes, they did. Another concession, by the way, the, the company didn't just, you know, they've been doing a few things. They've been getting more vocal, they've been putting out more news releases. Another concession they made was that they are open to having, calling board meetings that if enough shareholders say, we want to have a meeting, we're concerned about something, they would actually do this. Now, the, the company has a reputation, including from statements made by a Bulldog, that investors will come in and shareholders say, I, I want a meeting, show me this, and then maybe give

• 26:09Speaker 05

  them a tour, but, you know, don't really give them a full audience with the board or the CEO or whatever. So that, you know, is another part of it. The, the criticism is that they're too closed off. And it sounds like the company is now trying to say, well, no, we're open, we're, we're willing to do this now. I think that the company sees how serious this could be and is, you know, willing to make some changes. And isn't that how it happens after all? You know, you get pressured into making changes, well, you give a little.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  In order to have some kind of influence, they must have bought a pretty big portion of the company. Did they talk percentages or anything?

• 26:42Speaker 05

  Well, it was, it's... I forget what it is.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Enough to get three seats. It's enough to get three seats on the board.

• 26:50Speaker 05

  Well, you know, not necessarily. If you can persuade the shareholders to back you on this, you don't have to.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:58Speaker 05

  Unless I'm wrong about that.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:59Speaker 05

  You know, they can just, if they can get three people on, two of them are with Bulldog and was an attorney that they work with. But yeah, I think something like one to 2%. There's a lot of institutional investment in Tohono Rangus.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I'm looking at their, at their share price, you know, going back to 1985. It's basically trading at what it was then.

• 27:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, there are fluctuations. It's not like it's unchanged.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  No, there, there were, there's been a few peaks. So it got, it looks like it got up to almost 60 and for a real brief period of time around 2005. So, you know, understandably, a shareholder, the, the boards generally, the, the main job of, of the board is to maximize shareholder value. That's my understanding. Like that's numero uno. That's, that's, that's your, that's your, that's what you got to do. That's what you're, you're overriding, you know, contribution and responsibility is to generate the, the maximum shareholder value. So if you're looking at just shareholder value in terms of the, the, the, the price,

• 28:14Speaker 01

  and I'm, I'm assuming it hasn't split. So I'm just, I'm just looking at a straight chart. I don't know if you'll see a chart too Dustin.

• 28:20Speaker 05

  I don't believe it has.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  And so, you know, how do you, have they said anything about the share price?

• 28:26Speaker 05

  There's been, well, no, not really. I mean, if you ask about these, these particular projects, there's been a lot of investment and entitlement and the company says, you know, at least two of them are ready to go. When we're ready to go, we're ready. So the, Bulldog's asking, well, when are you going to do it? I mean, this is a question that's been around for a long time. When are you actually going to move? The company, to my knowledge, hasn't really disclosed a lot about that publicly. Exactly when they're going to go, but there certainly have been busy at the Tahone Ranch Commerce Center. A lot has happened there. Some of the criticism that the company has taken is with its compensation plan. The way board members and executives are able to get warrants, you know, to buy stock and how those are awarded.

• 29:11Speaker 05

  And the company, one of the concessions is we'll take another look at that. And this is something that very much the activist investors are looking for. Because their opinion is that the insiders have been able to do pretty well because they're accumulating more and more stock. But the stock value itself is not right.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  Well, they would know their private equity. That's what private equity does. I mean, they come in and they know where and how to trim fat and then, you know, and then.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  Improve value a lot of times.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, they have a five, seven, maybe 10 year exit timeline most of the time.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you know, my feeling is, my guess is that the board at Tahone Ranch, like you said, a lot of them live here. Or some of them live here. They have like a personal stake in the, in the community, or at least in the valley. And are willing to, you know, not, not be so focused on short-term gains. I have, I would also though, express some frustration about the pace that, that these new communities are going at. It seems like it was, we've been talking about at least one of these communities, I don't remember which one, but the one probably closest to the back. Was announced like over 10 years ago.

• 30:23Speaker 05

  1999.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  99?

• 30:26Speaker 05

  Centennial has been on the drawing book since 1999.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  Is that the one that opened recently?

• 30:30Speaker 01

  No, it hasn't even broke ground.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  Something's, something opened recently up there.

• 30:35Speaker 05

  The apartments, which really, really look nice. They're, they're the, what would be at this point, the second largest apartment community in the county. 495 units, they are well into phase one. There's something, 84 of them, the first tranche of the first phase has opened, people have moved in. That's moving along.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Who's moving, do you know who's moving in up there in those apartments? Cause are they workers that?

• 31:03Speaker 05

  I didn't, yeah, so the, the idea originally was, was for grapevine. The other one just south of there, there was going to be homes. To people who work at the center because, you know, employers wants their workers to live nearby if possible. So they went forward with that, but it didn't happen soon enough. They moved, they decided we need to make some apartments here. And so, yes, it absolutely, one of the big ideas is give, give a place to live for the people who work there and for their families, maybe someone working at distribution center, someone working at outlets. However, they didn't only market it to those folks, you know, when you've got a lot of inventory coming online, you want it to be full, really.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:43Speaker 05

  And so they were marketing as far away as Santa Clarita to, to bring people in. I think eventually it certainly could become, um, you know, local housing for people working there. But I think, you know, the, the smart way to do it is probably to make sure it's full.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  I see.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  This is Terra Vista, it looks like.

• 32:00Speaker 05

  Right.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  So they're nice.

• 32:01Speaker 05

  At Tohonen is the new name.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  You saw these apartments or you seen?

• 32:04Speaker 05

  I have toured them before they were completely ready. I did go Friday to the ribbon cutting and saw the outside of them. There were, there are people living there.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. How much is rent? Do you know?

• 32:15Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  They have like two or three bedrooms?

• 32:17Speaker 05

  Um, there are one and two bedrooms and studios. Uh, they did lower the price, um, as a promotional thing, make sure you get some people in there. But I think that in the high end, it's like 1,800. So.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  So kind of market, yeah, more affordable, you think?

• 32:32Speaker 05

  Well, more affordable than, let's say, the Sage Equities properties in downtown Bakersfield.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  Well, those are the most expensive.

• 32:38Speaker 05

  Right. In, in, in all of Bakersfield.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  In all of Bakersfield.

• 32:41Speaker 05

  Um, they, they lowered the price. I was a little surprised at the initial prices, uh, only because, you know, it is, there's no grocery store there. This is something they're still, you know, working on. Uh, they were going to make an announcement. It hasn't come yet. Um, they were originally saying there was going to be through the food court that we're going to have some sort of a, you know, a, a.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Market?

• 33:02Speaker 05

  Groceries market there, but I think they're moving away from that. We'll see what initially comes of it. But it's something like 1,800 dollars for a two bedroom. Um, I'm not looking at the store right now, like 1,500 for a one or studio.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:16Speaker 05

  So not unreasonable, I think.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  They already had some people signed up.

• 33:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, they have. And, you know, it's nice. It really looks nice. The pool looks really nice. The clubhouse looks fantastic, honestly.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  So then what, so coming back to Centennial community, we're 25, 26 years now.

• 33:34Speaker 05

  Yes, I think that is the big question. And if one day I do get an interview with the new CEO, part of the concessions, they got a new CEO, brought us more board members since last year's, you know, failed coup.

• 33:52Speaker 05

  I would ask that, you know.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:54Speaker 05

  So when, how are you going to make a decision on when to pull the trigger on To Home Mountain Village and Centennial? I think, I don't know, maybe there's some legal challenges to Centennial, but I don't believe there are any that would hold up to Home Mountain Village, which is a very different thing. One of the criticisms, again, is, you know, how are we going to finance this? You know, it was going to be a joint venture. The company bought out the partner on that. Now how are you going to pay for this thing? And I think that may be part of the answer there. But, you know, it's, I've watched this company go through so many real estate cycles, you know. It seems like now's the time and they don't do anything, so they're waiting for the next one.

• 34:37Speaker 05

  I don't honestly know what, and would like to ask what this depends on when you go forward.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. And now it sounds like you're going to have that opportunity at least once a quarter, now that they're actually going to have.

• 34:49Speaker 05

  Well, they don't invite journalists on to that so much as they do analysts.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, but you can still go, right?

• 34:57Speaker 05

  Well, if they do it in person, I think it would probably be.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  Or listen, or listen on the call. They weren't even doing the calls before, right? They were just releasing their financials, but no calls. So maybe there'd be an opportunity.

• 35:10Speaker 05

  Maybe so. I was told that I might be able to get some time with the CEO. That would have been my question.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  Oh, that'd be great. We should see if we can get the CEO on the show, Stephen.

• 35:19Speaker 05

  Matt Walker.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  Matt Walker. There you go. Get Mr. Walker on. That'd be great. I'd love to, you know, love to hear.

• 35:26Speaker 05

  Definitely. And when you were talking about market cycles, it made me think about, you wrote a little bit this month also about a couple of ag-related topics. I'm not sure if we have to take a break.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  No, we can go do it a little bit for a break.

• 35:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, so the almond crops, what's happening there? He said.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  There's early estimates saying that the crops look manageable?

• 35:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, the size of the crop is estimated, it is very, very preliminary, early tentative estimate from the federal government, based on 500 sort of interviews of growers, that it's going to be a manageable size, only 3% bigger than last year's total crop, which was not overly large. And this is a big question for almonds, because Kern County, the Central Valley, had gotten itself into a bit of a corner with, you know, oversupply. In 2014, man, everybody wanted to own an almond orchard. Prices were great, $4.25 a pound, yes. And then, you know, it dropped. You know, some of that has had to do with the tariffs.

• 36:28Speaker 05

  And, you know, there's still some exposure to that. We still don't quite know how that's going to play out, but the price has been good. Demand has been good. I think we saw just a little bit of a drop off most recently, but the prices have stayed pretty solid recently. And so, the news was that, you know, it could be down, excuse me, it could be up, but only by 3%. However, last year, the pattern was that this so-called subjective estimate, the first one, based on phone calls, it was larger than this objective, which comes in July, I think, and that one is based upon actual observations of the orchards. And even that was higher than what it came out to be. So, people are kind of excited, like, only 3%

• 37:10Speaker 05

  bigger, that means it's going to be 5% under, you know, because based on what happened last year, it's probably, people are saying, probably an overestimate, and, you know, less is better.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  For price.

• 37:21Speaker 05

  Right.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Because you're talking about volume. You're just, you know, right, overall volume increases, which predicted, but that's not necessarily great for that, I mean, that-

• 37:31Speaker 05

  For producers.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, for producers.

• 37:33Speaker 05

  Well, we want Kern County to have all the volume and everyone else to be a little bit short.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Yes, that's it. We want it all to come from here. Huge increases in Kern County, Fresno County is way less, but, you know, overall, what it, you know, the price is what matters. That's what I'm really curious about, because it seems like the headwinds, the challenges for almond growers are-

• 37:52Speaker 05

  Enormous.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  They are.

• 37:54Speaker 05

  So many, you know, obviously, water is a concern, especially for almonds, more than a lot of other crops. Because you can't just, you know, well, we're just not going to plant next year. No, almonds are there for 20, 25 years.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, doesn't it take several years before they even produce?

• 38:09Speaker 05

  That's pistachio, well, it's about three years for almonds, two, three. And then it's the pistachios are like seven years.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  That's the one.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  But pistachios use less water.

• 38:18Speaker 05

  Pistachios can also take a little saltier water, and you don't have to pull them out in 20 years. They continue to produce and produce and produce for many years, decades. Yeah, big, big difference, really, in the nature of your investment. But pistachios may be heading toward a similar kind of situation where you begin to ask, at what point do we have too many acres?

• 38:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:38Speaker 05

  But, you know, that all depends upon how you're growing your demand overseas. Domestic, obviously, we've got some, but how are we building buyers? And how are we not disrupting trade relationships, which take time and energy to establish? Tariffs can ruin a lot very quickly if you don't, if you're not careful.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  You, you reported on the tariffs, the first go around with Trump's first presidency. And I remember you writing at least some articles on the impact, or what, what farmers were saying at that time. My feeling today is that it's really interesting when I've talked, the few farmers I've talked to, they shrug off the tariff stuff. They're just like, eh, you know, it's almost like, in a way, they're happy about it. I'm not sure why.

• 39:24Speaker 05

  Well, you know, for, I, I think a couple of reasons. One is, you know, largely, the ag industry supports Trump. And one of the problems that's come into that is that when, when the federal government comes time for them to sort of step up and compensate for the losses, specialty crops are not on the list. Well, that's what we do here. Those are nuts, for example. On the other hand, you know, the almond industry is reportedly doing very well in, in finding new markets to export to. That's going to be key. I also was talking to somebody at another event last week, an ag event that we, on the break, we talked about. Someone was saying that Well, you know, California almonds can easily become New Zealand almonds that get sold then to China.

• 40:08Speaker 05

  Oh, oh, so, you know, I mean, then, of course, you don't have to worry about it. If you're going to do some creative, we'll sell to the New Zealanders and the New Zealanders sells to China.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  That's a good point.

• 40:19Speaker 05

  And we cut a deal.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's still costing money and, you know.

• 40:23Speaker 05

  A little extra shipping, right?

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not, yeah.

• 40:25Speaker 05

  Divert it.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  It's not free trade. Great. We're going to take a quick break, John. We're going to come back. I want to talk to you about a couple more things. Want to thank our listeners for tuning in. We'll be right back.

• 40:35Speaker 00

  Have you been putting off your finances? Seize the day. Call the Money Wise office at 661-847-1000 or email [email protected] for more information.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  Thanks for tuning in. We're Money Wise. We're your hosts today. I'm Sharad Waite here with Dustin Weaver and our guest is John Cox, longtime editor at the Bakersfield Californian Reporter. Thanks so much for being here, John.

• 41:09Speaker 05

  Yes, John. Sure enough.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  So, great stuff. We talked about the Hone Ranch, talked a little bit about the almonds and a little bit of ag. Another company that you've, that is publicly traded and located here in Bakersfield is Berry Corp.

• 41:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  It's not called Berry Petroleum anymore.

• 41:28Speaker 05

  No, Berry Corp is the official name.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Kind of reorganized and I always, I always have to remind myself, oh, yeah, they're still around. They're still in business and your article even mentions it, how, you know, California, I think you start the article out with California has some of the best oil fields in the United States, but you wouldn't know it by looking at Berry Corp's stock price.

• 41:49Speaker 05

  It's true.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  Oh, John.

• 41:51Speaker 05

  Honestly, well, that was what started the whole story. And I told the fellow I was speaking with at Berry about this, which is someone, and I don't want to mention the person's name, but someone was very central to Kern County Energy.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:04Speaker 05

  Was telling me, you know, things are rough with permitting in Sacramento. How rough? Look at Berry Corp's stock. And so I did, and I thought, I need to write a story. And just about the time that I finally cleared off enough of my desk that I could do this story, they just came out with their first quarter earnings and lost a hundred million dollars. And I thought, what? Now, of course, that's mostly an impairment. Actually, if you look closer at this, the measure that's more important for the long term is their cash, what was it, their cash position?

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Cash over cash.

• 42:37Speaker 05

  Cash, maybe that's what it was. Seventeen million dollars is what their cash, I can't remember the term right.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:45Speaker 05

  But so it's not as bad as it looks when you lose a hundred million dollars in three months. So, you know, by their measure, they seem to be doing well. They got permits. It's not easy to get a permit right now.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  No way.

• 42:58Speaker 05

  And they've got permits, and they're doing a lot of sidetracking, which is not exactly the same as drilling a new well. And so they, unlike other oil producers around here, they're in a relatively good position in terms of being able to develop their property.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  Well, good. I mean, that should eventually help their share price. At the time of your reporting, let's see, this article came out on May 9th. So this was just last Friday. So as of Friday, the stock closed at $2.92, down 62% from a year ago.

• 43:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  And that's a penny stock.

• 43:33Speaker 05

  But over 13%, the day they announced their earnings. So that 17 million dollars had a real bump for them. It was good for them. And news that they're able, they're going to be spending in the first half of this year, then they're going to stop and they're just going to produce. And, you know, it looks like they're in a decent position. The problem is they're still in California.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Yes, they're still in California. And California is doing everything they can to shut down oil and gas production. I'm actually...

• 44:06Speaker 01

  I'm concerned about the impact that it could ultimately have. We had on the show Mojiby.

• 44:18Speaker 05

  Is it Cyrus?

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Cyrus, who runs the refinery, San Joaquin Refinery. And had a great discussion with him last week and kind of talking about the struggles that it is to be a refiner in California.

• 44:31Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, we had Chad on a few weeks ago was saying that a lot, a few of them, there's only so many in the state.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:38Speaker 05

  Some, more of them have closed.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:40Speaker 05

  There's only what, seven or eight left?

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's only seven or eight left. And we both, we both talked about, and I've said this before, that what's going to get people's attention, no matter what side of the political spectrum they're on, is $10 a gallon gas. Then all of a sudden, people go, what? Because you probably see it anyways, John, like when, when gas prices spike up, immediately there's calls for investigations into, you know, price colluding and, you know, price fixing. And, and there's all this showmanship to try to, you know, we're going to help to bring down the price. And they're like, you can't just bring down the price. You can eat, like, you need twice as many refineries.

• 45:17Speaker 05

  Yeah. How do you get around supply and demand?

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:20Speaker 05

  Do that?

• 45:20Speaker 01

  Right. And so far, so much focus has been on the supply, not on the demand side. And so,

• 45:27Speaker 05

  Right.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  you know, we're just cutting down supplies and cutting down supplies. So eventually, we're going to get to the point where we're just not refining enough. We're not producing enough. Now we have to completely import everything, which we have no say or control over. So it does seem a little maddening. And so this was, this was a good story there you had on.

• 45:46Speaker 05

  Oh, thank you. That was, I was on Friday, I had written the, the Dahone Ranch story on the new letter that came out. Plus the, I'd driven to the Dahone Ranch Commerce Center to write the apartment story. And then at the end of the day, I had to write this story.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 46:01Speaker 05

  And it was like, I was already tired, ready to go. And I'm glad I didn't screw it up too bad.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  Yes. No, no, you do a great job, John. Anything coming up? You got any scoops?

• 46:11Speaker 05

  Ah, let me see. There's, there's always some things cooking that I'm working on. I'm seeking for tomorrow's paper. Nothing big. Um, gosh, I, I would have to sort of look at it.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  I really put you on the spot there. Sorry.

• 46:24Speaker 05

  There's always something. I'm going to be writing about Dubai chocolate. Have you heard about Dubai chocolate?

• 46:28Speaker 01

  What is that?

• 46:28Speaker 05

  Today, I saw it being made and I took some photos and I can actually show you on a break. Dubai chocolate contains pistachios. It was invented in Dubai. Somebody was apparently having some, you know, was giving birth and needed some things. It's Dubai, excuse me, it's pistachio paste, it's tahini, it's um, filo, shredded filo with chocolate. And it's delicious. I bought some. It's expensive, but it's really something.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  Oh, so you're going to write about that tomorrow?

• 47:01Speaker 05

  I'm going to write about it because it's a little bump for pistachios, you know?

• 47:04Speaker 01

  Nice. As you're talking about pistachios, I thought, I love pistachios. They're so good. Well, John Cox, thank you so much for coming on the show. I want to encourage all of our listeners, go out, get a subscription to The Bakersfield Californian. This is our local print, news print, and it's great, serves a great value to us. Thank you, John. Thank you, Dustin. Remind our listeners, these three things, be smart, be safe, and always be money wise.