1/28/25 Oil, Carbon & California’s Energy Puzzle – A Chat with Chad Hathaway

The Moneywise Radio Show and Podcast Tuesday, January 28th BE MONEYWISE. Moneywise Wealth Management I "The Moneywise Guys" podcast call: 661-847-1000 text in anytime: 661-396-1000 website: www. MoneywiseGuys.com facebook: Moneywise_Wealth_Management instagram: MoneywiseWealthManagement Guest: Chad Hathaway, CEO/President of Hathaway LLC. website: www.hathawayllc.com/

• 0:00Speaker 00

  From the padded radio room off Stockdale Highway, here is Money Wise. Call or text in at 661-396-1000.

• 0:09Speaker 01

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  Securities offered through SCF Securities, Inc., member FINRA/SIPC. Investment advisory services offered through SCF Investment Advisors, Inc., SCF Securities, Inc., and Money Wise Wealth Management are independently owned and operated.

• 0:40Speaker 00

  Now, let's start the Money Wise Show.

• 0:42Speaker 03

  Welcome to the Money Wise Show. We are live from the Gero Ellis padded radio room off Stockdale Highway on ESPN Bakersfield's 1230 a.m., 101.1 FM, and always streaming at MoneyWiseGuys.com. You can call or text into the show 24 hours a day at 661-396-1000. Today, we're your hosts, Sharad Waite and

• 1:05Speaker 04

  Dustin Weaver.

• 1:05Speaker 03

  Dustin Weaver. Good having you here.

• 1:07Speaker 04

  Hey, it's good to be here with you.

• 1:09Speaker 03

  We got some messages from our show between today and our show yesterday. And I want to start out right away with getting down to business and answering these questions.

• 1:21Speaker 04

  Sounds good.

• 1:21Speaker 03

  So here's our first message. It says, "How much do you think the wildfires will affect the economy in California? Also, other than insurance, do you expect other things to rise in California?" So let's talk about this, Dustin.

• 1:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's a great question.

• 1:37Speaker 03

  It is a great question. There's a lot to be played out, I believe, in terms of the wildfires and the impact that they will have. And so, smart listener here, right away, it's obvious that insurance premiums are going to go up. We've talked about on this show, the disaster that has been our state government's management of insurance companies and the reinsurance that company, that insurance company used to cover themselves. And the fact that the premiums have not kept up with what these insurance Companies were expecting us to experience in terms of natural disasters and fires and so on. And so now it's the the chickens have come home to roost. Is that the is that a proper analogy?

• 2:21Speaker 03

  We have these fires and of course, we're going to have rising premiums, but even more, I think costly is going to be the fact that people are going to be have now the higher expenses of their housing because it's very difficult to buy a piece of property, especially if you have a mortgage on it, if you don't have insurance. Insurance literally can't cover it because you're that neighborhood was just burned down and it's in a high risk area. It's going to become very difficult for somebody to be able to pay for a house. I mean, who can buy a house, pay cash for it and not worry about insurance?

• 2:59Speaker 04

  Exactly. Very few.

• 3:01Speaker 03

  Very few people. I mean, even even wealthy people will leverage insurance rather than them self insuring because it's generally a good deal. However, we're seeing now lots of reports of those down in LA, especially in some of these high end areas like Malibu and Palisades, Pacific Palisades, where they they were just self insured. And so you're going to see an enormous cost from from those. There there's some ancillary things, though, that are also affected because of the wildfires tourism is is going to be hit and has already hit dramatically. You're going to see construction costs likely go up. Why? We're going to have more demand for materials and labor labor for all of the work that needs to happen down south.

• 3:46Speaker 04

  Even government spending too.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:50Speaker 04

  With, I mean, all the resources that had to show up to help and it's not over. There's a lot of cleanup to be to be had.

• 3:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, and now you have our tax dollars, you know, going towards those things. Now, the step away, though, from the fires and let's talk about just kind of rising costs in general in California. We're an energy island and today later in the show Chad Hathaway is going to be joining us. He's one of our favorite guests Chad's a local oil and gas business owner and we'll talk about this, but the challenge for California is we can't produce enough oil and gas by the reserves that we have here in the state. It just doesn't work. It's impossible. We're too big of a state. We're too long. Geographically, we just don't have the resources. So what

• 4:36Speaker 03

  does that mean? We have to import our oil and gas from other places. And it is going the governor of California has been adamant about essentially just trying to put a stop to all carbon fuel production.

• 4:53Speaker 04

  Right.

• 4:54Speaker 03

  And what does that mean? Well, you have less production and an increasing, rising demand. And what does that spell? Higher costs for energy. And it's not just for you to fill up your car. It's to run the power plants, the natural gas power plants that California still relies on.

• 5:11Speaker 04

  Well, that that cost can flow into so many other things, right? If the transportation costs go up, well, that's going to be, you know, that product, whatever you're buying, that cost is going to be passed on to you as a buyer, right?

• 5:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, it just passes on through to you. And of course, we have our other issues that other states are still dealing with, rising healthcare costs, rising food prices, and water is a big problem in our state. Again, there's been decades of mismanagement of water. And so these are sort of, you know, we're just speculating.

• 5:46Speaker 04

  Well, we'll be talking water tomorrow with Lois.

• 5:48Speaker 03

  Oh, sweet.

• 5:49Speaker 04

  So I'm sure she'll have something to say about that.

• 5:51Speaker 03

  I can't wait. She-

• 5:53Speaker 04

  Don't forget the eggs, too. Yes, I was going to say eggs.

• 5:56Speaker 03

  Yeah. Our housing, we mentioned on yesterday's show, the lack of housing that we have in California, and we're not building enough new homes to satisfy the, those increase.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  Let's talk about food and agriculture. In fact, I think we got a message from a listener asking this question. It says, "I really enjoyed discussion on Monday's show." Here's a different one. It says, "I read a story in a local news website and wondered if you guys could break down this topic on a future show. But the question was, how do the Border Patrol operations in Kern County affect our economy?" That's from Griselda. Thank you, Griselda, for that question. Coming back to the first question of, you know, rising costs in California, we've had regular on this show, Mr. Murray, Steve Murray.

• 6:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, Murray Family Farms.

• 6:53Speaker 03

  Murray Family Farms. He's our farm expert that we bring on. He's on next week?

• 6:56Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 6:57Speaker 03

  And he's not alone. Farmers talk about the rising costs of labor. And that's because there were some law changes where the minimum wage, and not just minimum wage, but the increase and elimination or addition of overtime pay for labor workers has just been piled on farmers. You add on the cost of water, or the lack of that, and then you have fertilizer costs, which continue to go up. All of these things are pressures. All of these are putting a lot of pressure on the, on our economy, and especially on the agricultural sector.

• 7:36Speaker 03

  And so, but if you look at the, if you look at just the, who knows what's going to happen or what is currently happening in terms of the Border Patrol operations here locally, there was a really good, I'm guessing our listeners, talking about a report that was done on our local ABC affiliate.

• 7:57Speaker 04

  I didn't see that one. What was it about?

• 7:58Speaker 03

  It was about, they interviewed the professor at Cal State, I can't remember his name, but there is an agriculture economics department at Cal State who mentioned that about 50% to 65% of our local agriculture workforce are undocumented.

• 8:15Speaker 04

  50 to 60%.

• 8:16Speaker 03

  50, 60%. So...

• 8:18Speaker 04

  That's a pretty big number.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. If you have over half of your labor force, and let's say in the worst-case scenario, half of the labor force disappears, what's that going to do to the, what's that going to do for cost of labor?

• 8:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's gonna go up.

• 8:30Speaker 03

  And, and not only will it go up, but you might have a situation where crops aren't even able to be picked or harvested. And there are studies and examples of this where, I believe, is it Missouri? Where, at the time, the national minimum wage was $6 an hour. And this is to, you know, they were going to see if they could recruit laborers by offering $18 an hour to come work on the farm.

• 8:59Speaker 04

  Triple, yeah.

• 9:00Speaker 03

  And you think people showed up?

• 9:03Speaker 04

  I'm guessing not.

• 9:04Speaker 03

  Nope. No, no, they had, they had a few people that, that, that were, you know, willing to get, you know, do the work at 18 bucks an hour. Because there is something in our society, and I don't know, maybe it's this, just the upbringing or, or the back, you know, cultural background of, of where we come from.

• 9:24Speaker 04

  Maybe both, yeah.

• 9:25Speaker 03

  But they, we, the, the local workers don't go out and work in the fields. And even if you pay them more, it, it'll, it'll affect it certainly a little bit, but it's very minimal. So, you know, these are, these are workers that are essential, incredibly essential.

• 9:43Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:44Speaker 03

  Now, we're not advocating for undocumented workers. We want everybody to be documented. But we also have set up a sector, an industry here, especially in California. We, we're dependent on these people. And if, if we don't have them, now you're going to see incredible costs go up, especially with things like almonds, citrus, dairy, all the stuff that we grow and produce here. Also, remember that undocumented workers contribute for every dollar that they, that undocumented worker.

• 10:21Speaker 03

  Earns, they contribute a dollar thirty back into the economy. Another way to say that is thirty percent, there's a thirty percent instant return on every dollar that an undocumented worker spends or earns here.

• 10:36Speaker 04

  Well, I'm about you, but in the investment world, thirty percent is pretty good.

• 10:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I don't want to say, we don't want to exploit people and say, oh, you know, we're going to make a bunch of money, but we're making a bunch of money. And, and something that also is never brought up about undocumented workers, especially those that are maybe using not, not their real social security number, guess what? They're still paying into social security and Medicare. But they're not get, maybe they're getting some benefits, they're getting some social benefits, but most part, that money's just going right into the, right into the pot that they're never going to see a dime of.

• 11:09Speaker 04

  That's where that tax ID number comes into play. I've heard that and seen that advertised a lot, TIN.

• 11:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:15Speaker 04

  You know, you can have a tax ID without having a social.

• 11:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:18Speaker 04

  Right, because I think there's even loans out there for folks.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 11:22Speaker 04

  There's special programs out there for them.

• 11:24Speaker 03

  The, just being, we have, there, there's a severe economic impact. It's not just from us losing the labor, but it's also us from losing their, their economic ripple effects that we get from undocumented, undocumented workers. So this is going to be fascinating to see. Neither of us are immigration experts and have, we're not taking a stance on this one way or another. Economically though, it does certainly make me very concerned about our agriculture industry and the pressures that they're already under. This will be another great topic for Chad, because I know Chad, besides being oil and gas, is also in ag, he's a farmer and, and has some experience there, so we're going to talk to him in a minute.

• 12:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, definitely.

• 12:05Speaker 03

  All right, before we take a break, last comment from a listener, it says, it says, "I really enjoyed the discussion on Monday's show." That was yesterday. "Is your guest a, in local politics? If not, if not, sounded like he would be good in it, but I enjoyed the conversation and started a nice one at our dinner table last night."

• 12:24Speaker 04

  That's always good.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  Thank you, I know. So if you missed yesterday's show, go to MoneyWiseGuys.com wherever you listen to your podcasts. We had Trico Matthews. On yesterday, Trico is a, he works for Kern Health Systems. But his, I think his passion is in his work as a pastor of the Church of God here in town. And he's, he's an amazing friend of the show, a personal friend as well. And I have asked him about politics and he shies away from it because I think he would be an amazing politician, but politics are, man, I don't know who would go into politics. You gotta have a screw loose if you want to get into politics.

• 13:04Speaker 04

  So what kind of stands out from yesterday? What was the main theme?

• 13:07Speaker 03

  We were talking about some of the crackdown on DEI and, and, you know, what is, you know, what impact this has economically? We talked about, you know, the impact it has on businesses, you know, what are the pros and cons, you know, how do, how do you, how do you balance being diverse and equitable, but also understanding that there is a, there is a merit system as well that we, that we sort of can't.

• 13:33Speaker 04

  Kind of marrying those two ideas.

• 13:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. And how do you make this work? And Trico did, I think, a good job of helping us navigate, us who don't know anything about the subject.

• 13:42Speaker 04

  Great comment and good that it started a conversation at the, at least one dinner table last night.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, people are still eating around the dinner table. That's nice.

• 13:49Speaker 04

  That's a good thing.

• 13:51Speaker 03

  All right, we're going to take a quick break right now. We come back, Chad Hathaway is going to join the Money Wise guys. Don't go anywhere.

• 13:56Speaker 00

  Are you not sure if you're invested appropriately? Call our offices at 661-847-1000 to sit down with a Money Wise financial advisor for a no obligation assessment.

• 14:11Speaker 03

  Thanks so much for tuning in. We're Money Wise, I'm Sharad Waite, I'm here with Dustin Weaver.

• 14:15Speaker 05

  Yes, sir.

• 14:16Speaker 03

  Now we're joined by our regular guest, Chad Hathaway. Hathaway Oil and Gas, you know, it's just Hathaway LLC.

• 14:24Speaker 05

  Hathawayzie.

• 14:26Speaker 03

  Chad, thanks so much for coming back.

• 14:27Speaker 05

  Thanks for having me.

• 14:28Speaker 03

  I really enjoyed reading through the prep work here that you did. I told Dustin, you prepare more than any other guest and it is like, it doesn't go unnoticed. It always gets me excited and I've got so many things that I want to talk to you about. So hopefully you got time to stick around a little bit. But first, let's talk about current pricing market highlights.

• 14:54Speaker 05

  So we're up quite a bit from the last month since I've been here, about $4 a barrel. And you know, it's really nice is to see and feel that a lot of that is due to the strong market fundamentals right now. Um, there's been eight plus weeks of continual draws and inventory draws, which means that the market demand is outpacing the supply, which is great.

• 15:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:17Speaker 05

  Very good.

• 15:18Speaker 03

  Right.

• 15:18Speaker 05

  You know, it's not speculative, it's not geopolitical, it's the geopolitical things have kind of calmed their selves down. And, and we're seeing really good supply and demand, which was kind of forecasted a while ago. And we, we see a surplus in the mid 2025 to late 2025, but the fundamentals are good right now. And that's comfortable. That makes me feel good.

• 15:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. Uh, there has been a lot of funky business in the gas, oil and gas world. Um, take for example, uh, the war between Russia and Ukraine has dramatically shifted the transportation of oil and, uh, natural gas in Europe.

• 15:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:54Speaker 03

  Has this affected us over here? Or how has this affected you or us here?

• 15:58Speaker 05

  Well, there is additional sanctions placed on, on Russia at the end of the Biden administration. And I, I think there was fears of additional sanctions coming down the road. And I think also, you know, Iran's been pretty free to move around crude over the last several years. It's been a, uh, they haven't been, the sanctions haven't been as firm as they were, um, when Trump was previously in office. But those have been loosened because it's been kind of a black market of crude that they're finally starting to crack down on. So I'm not, that doesn't necessarily affect our domestic supply and demand as much, but domestically is more what I'm referring to. There's a strong demand domestically and we are the largest consumer of crude in the world. So it's a good indicator. And then China has some growth. You know, China's doing some things to stimulate their economy and things are kind of starting to

• 16:41Speaker 05

  level out in China. There was a lot of economic pressure in China and that's the second largest consumer of crude in the world. So those are all good things for the market right now. And OPEC has remained restrained, which I don't, you know, they always talk about, everybody thinks OPEC can turn on the faucet and just speed up real quick. You can't do that in our business. It's not practical. So there's, uh, OPEC's had restraint and it's been very comfortable. If they see the price drop below 70, I think a lot of these sovereign nations get really concerned that they're not going to be able to meet their, but a lot of them can't meet their budget at 70. Um, so dollars a barrel, they, they need higher prices than that. Um, so. There's a lot of, and I think that for overall for society, it's good to have a stable price of oil.

• 17:26Speaker 05

  These enjumulations of up and down and it's just bad. You can't plan or schedule your business. You can't invest in the capital investments that you need to invest in because you just, there's nothing, it's not stable.

• 17:40Speaker 03

  You know, speaking of investments is something I've had a great respect for you because you deal with these market fluctuations of these commodities that you're producing. And that's like, that's real world trading, right? You have to, that's like, you're putting your own money on the line to hedge or to protect yourself from the fluctuations of these commodity prices. So how do you do that? Or maybe tell our listeners, how do you, how do you deal with the trends and the changes?

• 18:11Speaker 05

  You know, a lot of times you're guessing and you can only do as much. It's just like when people come to you for financial advice and they ask you to tell you what you think about the market. And I guess if I knew everything, I'd be a genius, but I just have to know where I can live within. And when I get an opportunity to put, we call it derivatives or hedges in place to secure our bottom line price, I have to be comfortable with that price because it could go one of two ways. The price could go, say like 70 is my magic number, right? I can make a comfortable profit and be good at 70. I'm not going to go broke. I can still advance capital projects, but if it goes to 100, that means I'm giving up a lot of that upside if I tie up all my production at that. So I only do about 50% of our production.

• 18:56Speaker 05

  So I have to guess. I have to look at the market. I have to say, what are the fundamentals? What's going on? What do I see out there? And I have to make a decision that I'm comfortable with. I don't like, I won't let my controller, I won't let my COO make that decision because that's something that I have to be comfortable with. But don't get me wrong, I'm looking at five different models on a, every time I place a hedge or anything like that to secure my pricing to make sure that I don't do anything that's going to put us in a bad position.

• 19:23Speaker 03

  It's, that's incredibly stressful. I would think would be very stressful.

• 19:29Speaker 05

  It's stressful when you, when you lose because you're writing a huge check every month. And you're mad because you've given up all that upside. But when it, when it goes below your threshold and you're getting a big check every month.

• 19:44Speaker 03

  And I think you've mentioned that on this show, I don't know what year it was, maybe 2014 or 2015, but oil prices went crazy and you fortunately had some hedges in place that kind of floated you for a while.

• 19:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, two years.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  You were lucky, I guess.

• 20:00Speaker 05

  Two years, yeah.

• 20:01Speaker 03

  Man.

• 20:02Speaker 05

  It was. And now you just live and learn and it's one of those things where this market is very unstable. I mean, it's, and that's one thing that people have ran from this industry is because they're not, they're not used to the instability of it. It's discomforting. It's like, you know, I've had, you know, we're cash flush, we're cash poor, you know, you've got these ups and downs and, you know, as long as you, you know, run a good business and know how to adjust, you can survive. But a lot of people, you know, there's often layoffs in the service world of our business because, you know, and then people, once they leave, they don't want to come back. They don't want to live that lifestyle again. The money, but sometimes the money brings them back because it's so high. But, but you always hear that, you know, during the downturn, I'm gone, I'm never coming back. And then you see the guy down the street the next, you know, year or two and they were

• 20:47Speaker 05

  never coming back.

• 20:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's good, good paying jobs. How, you mentioned the, a lot of people don't want to get into the industry and now we have Governor Newsom and Sacramento continuing to crack down on it. So there's this impression, I think, by the general public that, oh, California's getting out of the oil and gas business. So that's, that is going to impact the number of workers that go into the industry. Are you seeing it? Are you seeing an impact in terms of labor costs?

• 21:18Speaker 05

  Uh, not necessarily costs. I think we are continuously have to stay competitive. It's actually become, I think, more favorable for the oil and gas employer now than it was before because the jobs are fewer and far between than they were before. And we don't have this abundant service sector that we had before. Like we didn't, we didn't have active drilling, active workovers. Most of the stuff now is remedial work and just maintenance type stuff. So there's a lot of people that are really hungry to get in the oil and gas and they still see the opportunity of high wages, great benefits and, you know, they see this Billion and so the the money and the lifestyle and the opportunity that we give folks is still very exciting and and and a carrot for a lot of folks.

• 22:01Speaker 05

  So I think it's more positive for us now than it was when things were crazy and out of control.

• 22:07Speaker 03

  Interesting. That's good to hear.

• 22:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, it is. Nice. It's actually really nice. I mean, our our turnover rate is extremely low and has been for a long time.

• 22:15Speaker 03

  Is this yours in terms of just your company or in the industry?

• 22:18Speaker 05

  But no, but my my company and the industry as well. I I can think that's a pretty general statement for the other companies that I'm involved with and people that I know that run businesses. It's it's a pretty stable deal and you you have your occasional turnover. I mean, we all do in business, but it's not like it was back in the in the in the peak times when things were crazy.

• 22:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:37Speaker 05

  When the when the water was flowing like wine.

• 22:41Speaker 03

  They were joined by Chad Hathaway. Chad Hathaway is with Hathaway, oil and gas producer here in town. Chad, you brought some really interesting information about hydrogen and hydrogen. This is another, I think, conception that the general public has is, oh, we're not going to need carbon fuels because we got we got unlimited hydrogen and we have solar and we have wind. And we have now some of these newer technologies that are coming out. So hydrogen is fascinating to me. My my real dumb idea and understanding of hydrogen is that it's the most common element in the universe, right? So it's like it's everywhere. We'll essentially never run out of it. The problem with hydrogen is it takes energy to make hydro to make hydrogen.

• 23:25Speaker 03

  You can't just pull hydrogen out in its in its element form. You have to it it comes with other other elements that now you have to put some energy into it.

• 23:36Speaker 05

  Right.

• 23:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, you have to put energy into it to make the fuel, the hydrogen fuel itself. And that's where, you know, hydrogen, yeah, it burns great because it just gives off water, you know, you burn off and you can have just clean, you know, pure water. But how do you make that? It requires oil and gas.

• 23:53Speaker 05

  There are different types. There's like pink hydrogen, blue hydrogen, yellow hydrogen, white hydrogen. There's always different hydrogens. And this is all different or derived by how the hydrogen is developed. But white hydrogen is when actually you just drill for. You know, so it's it's very diverse and very complicated, but we've been looking at hydrogen for, I would say 50 plus years, we've been looking at hydrogen as alternative fuel. And but it to be to be considered green in hydrogen, it really has to be derived from alternative energy. And what you're talking about extraction, which doesn't make a ton of sense, you know, uh, right now, the financials don't make any sense.

• 24:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 24:31Speaker 05

  They have gray hydrogen. The the one thing I thought was really interesting that a report in the Financial Time quoted the experts suggesting as much as 5 trillion tons of naturally occurring hydrogen exist in underground reservoirs worldwide. So to put that into perspective, hydrogen packs 125 million BTUs of energy per ton, which means there may be 625 quintillion BTUs of hydrogen sitting in the ground waiting to be extracted. Total global energy consumption per year currently sits around 600 quadrillion BTUs. So theoretically, we could have enough hydrogen to last us for electricity needs for a thousand years.

• 25:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, you could run the entire planet off of off of the hydrogen that we have for a thousand years.

• 25:14Speaker 04

  That's just the white hydrogen, right?

• 25:16Speaker 05

  What's that?

• 25:16Speaker 04

  That's just for the white.

• 25:17Speaker 05

  That's just the white hydrogen, but but but that sounds super cool, super sexy and super exciting, right?

• 25:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:24Speaker 05

  It's just, let's just do it, right?

• 25:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:26Speaker 05

  Let's just do it. Well, it's not that easy.

• 25:28Speaker 03

  Right.

• 25:28Speaker 05

  And so when you look at that, billions and billions of dollars over the years have been poured into research for hydrogen. And I am, look, I mean, hydrogen, nuclear, there's two things I think hydrogen is cool, but we're nowhere near anywhere near the technology to be able to do it safely, be able to do it on a mass scale. And you're still going to need oil no matter what. So I just want to make sure that's clear. Oil will still be a part and a fabric of our lives in so many ways, even if hydrogen could be rolled out tomorrow. So one thing that you have to think about, so right now, if you wanted to put hydrogen in your car or have a hydrogen tank that was suitable or safe, it'd have to be able to hold five to 5,000, 10,000 PSI, requiring specialized materials. So hydrogen has to be at really high pressures, otherwise it will turn into a liquid.

• 26:13Speaker 05

  And so that's something that we we don't realize. Well, can you imagine driving around with a tank like that in your car? And you get in a car wreck?

• 26:21Speaker 03

  People are freaking out about batteries.

• 26:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, batteries are safe compared to this.

• 26:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. And you gotta keep it at 400 degrees below zero, right?

• 26:29Speaker 05

  It's a bomb. Yes, you do. And so it's a bomb, basically, in your car. So we have to figure out, there's a lot of things that we have to figure out. The other thing that people don't realize, and this is the biggest thing with energy. It's if you can't distribute it easily, then it's not a real viable source of energy. If it requires more trucking or more, more use of it itself to be able to do it, it's, it's net input isn't that good. And so you can't just run hydrogen through pipeline system in America. Like, all the natural gas pipelines, all the infrastructure we have in this country, everything would have to be completely redone in order to bring in hydrogen as part of our society.

• 27:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:04Speaker 05

  So, think about that. That'd be like having to redo the grid for a different type of power.

• 27:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, not gonna happen.

• 27:11Speaker 04

  Tremely time.

• 27:12Speaker 03

  I don't see it happening.

• 27:14Speaker 05

  You see the reality here, what I'm talking about? So people get so super excited, I get it all the time. Well, this new technology's gonna change the world. And I go, well, okay, let's, let's talk about this, you know? But sometimes people are super religious about it.

• 27:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:26Speaker 05

  And they just don't see, you know, the, the, the big picture here. It's like you call, looking, you know, staring at the forest through the trees. Or some, most of the people's faces right up against the tree.

• 27:35Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 27:35Speaker 05

  And, and they don't realize that all these different types of energy aren't scalable. There aren't going to be something that really can just pop in tomorrow and change our lives, so.

• 27:43Speaker 03

  This has been, I'm really excited to talk to you more, we're gonna take a break. But I, I'm getting a, a much more positive sense and vibe from you here, Chad, in terms of oil and gas. So I want to talk more about sort of the future of, of oil and gas, especially here in California. We're Money Wise, don't go anywhere, we'll be right back.

• 27:59Speaker 00

  Don't forget, Money Wise is more than a radio show. We're an independently owned, local wealth management firm with 60-plus years of collective experience. Our financial advisors are here to help you, Kern County. Together, let's be smart, be safe, be money wise.

• 28:22Speaker 03

  Welcome to the Money Wise Show. Dustin Weaver and I'm Jared Waite. Chad Hathaway is here with us, friend of the show. Chad, we have a new Secretary of Energy. And there's a shift changing, there's a shift in Washington DC and shift in attitudes, at least for the Secretary of Energy. You've met Chris Wright.

• 28:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:45Speaker 03

  So how do you feel about what some of the things he's saying?

• 28:49Speaker 05

  Well, I put this in because I never know if Emily's gonna be here or not. And I wanted to, because Emily always says, "Well, what about the environment? What about the environment?" And I think that a lot of times when we talk about the environment, humans aren't considered part of that equation. And so I like high IQ guys in energy. And I like, I mean, to me, if you're developing policy, we should like high IQ guys and proven successes in these areas in government. That's my belief, that if you have the ability to do something out in the world, but you also have the ability to cross over into politics, I just think we don't have enough business people in politics. It's just, that's my opinion, take it or leave it.

• 29:28Speaker 03

  Too smart.

• 29:29Speaker 05

  Chris is, yeah, like you just said, who in hell would want to be in politics?

• 29:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 29:34Speaker 05

  In the life, and it's definitely not for the pay, you know? That's not, you know, they don't make that much money. Maybe it's for the ego, the power. But Chris Wright is the Secretary of Energy. I watched his confirmation hearings and unfortunately, out of all the senators that had very good ballot questions, our senator from California really made a fool of himself.

• 29:52Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 29:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 29:53Speaker 03

  What'd they ask?

• 29:55Speaker 05

  He, what is his name, Alex Padilla, I think it is? Yeah, he was asking about, he was the guy that was cutting him off. And it was almost, he went right into the wildfires in Los Angeles. And he basically...

• 30:13Speaker 05

  Asked him about that and it wasn't, it wasn't even an energy focused question. It was more climate change in his space and, and Chris was, he's an energy guy and he's like, "Well, this is what I believe and this is how I think about it." But then he cut him off and then he cut him off. But you watched everybody, the, the Senator from California and the Senator from Hawaii, both on the scale of everybody, you know, just talking Republican or Democrats, really didn't show a good face for good, solid energy questions. It was all climate change. So it was the, California was about the fires in Palos Verdes and the, and the Lahaina was the Hawaii one and it was like, "You guys get together and get your little script together." But it wasn't energy related. I didn't think that was cool. But he wrote, Chris wrote this thing called, "Bettering Human Lives." And I'd like to read it because it's kind of cool.

• 30:57Speaker 05

  "Number one is energy is essential to life and the world needs more of it. We know that. We need more energy. The modern world today is powered by and made of hydrocarbons." Got it?

• 31:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:08Speaker 05

  "Hydrocarbons are essential to improving wealth, health and life opportunities for the less energized 7 billion people who aspire to be among the world's lucky 1 billion." Remember, most of the world doesn't have what we have.

• 31:20Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:21Speaker 05

  They want what we have.

• 31:22Speaker 03

  And, and, and the underdeveloped countries are where we were, you know, 50, 100 years ago, we built our economy off of carbon fuels. If it wasn't for the, the carbon fuel revolution, we wouldn't have what we have.

• 31:37Speaker 05

  Yeah. Hydrocarbons supply more than 80% of global energy and thousands of critical materials and products. It's not all about fossil fuels. We often forget it's about fossil fuels.

• 31:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:46Speaker 05

  "Number five, the American shale revolution transformed energy markets, energy security and geopolitics." That is definitely a fact worldwide.

• 31:55Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 31:55Speaker 05

  "Global demand for oil, natural gas and coal are all at record levels and rising. No energy transition has begun."

• 32:03Speaker 03

  This is something you've been talking a lot about in terms of California is that none of the laws are addressing the demand. It's all the supply, which, the demand is continuing to go up. I think I just read this morning, the demand, or maybe you mentioned, demand has gone up. It still goes up. It's, it's, it's always gone up because the economy, it goes with the economy and the economy keeps growing. So it's always going to be going up with, with the economy, but you can't, there's no attempts to deal with the demand aspect to it.

• 32:31Speaker 05

  No.

• 32:32Speaker 04

  Well, there's 7 billion people, you know, waiting for what we have, right?

• 32:35Speaker 05

  Yeah. Conservation.

• 32:37Speaker 03

  Conservation?

• 32:38Speaker 05

  That's the demand. That's the one that's actually a good way to work on demand. More conservation efforts, more efficiency efforts, more things like that.

• 32:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:46Speaker 05

  We don't see that.

• 32:47Speaker 03

  Right.

• 32:47Speaker 05

  We see abolishment.

• 32:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, which is that's not, that's a fairy tale.

• 32:51Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 32:51Speaker 03

  Abolishment, at least.

• 32:52Speaker 05

  So, modern alternatives like wind, solar, provide only part of electricity demand and do not replace the most critical uses of hydrocarbons. Energy-dense, reliable nuclear could be more impactful.

• 33:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. How do you feel? I think you're a pro of nuclear, right? Excited about it?

• 33:08Speaker 05

  Big time.

• 33:09Speaker 03

  Would you, is there an opportunity to get into that business somehow?

• 33:13Speaker 05

  No, not for me.

• 33:14Speaker 03

  Is this too much?

• 33:14Speaker 05

  No, I said, way over my head.

• 33:16Speaker 03

  You gotta be like Bill Gates kind of money?

• 33:18Speaker 05

  Way too stupid here to that.

• 33:20Speaker 03

  Oh, come on.

• 33:21Speaker 05

  Um, here's a, A, making energy more expensive or unreliable compromises people, national security, and the environment.

• 33:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 33:30Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 33:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:32Speaker 05

  Climate change is a global challenge, but is far from the world's greatest threat to human life.

• 33:37Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 33:38Speaker 05

  I'm listening to an audiobook, or I listened to it twice now. It's about, it's a hypothetical scenario on nuclear war.

• 33:44Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 33:45Speaker 05

  Have you ever, have you ever, I mean, it's scary.

• 33:49Speaker 03

  It's frightening.

• 33:50Speaker 05

  Scary.

• 33:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:50Speaker 05

  How scary, how, I mean, one bomb, what one bomb can do, but one bomb hitting a nuclear power plant, for example, the earth and that general area would be ruined for a million years.

• 34:01Speaker 03

  And we have madmen across the world that have their finger hovering over the button, like Putin could just, at any time, on his, as he goes out, could just go, boom, and hit that, you know, it's frightening.

• 34:15Speaker 05

  And Jacobson wrote this book, it's 2024, it's terrifying. And I've done these road trips with people and I play it and by the third hour in, everybody's just like, oh my God, dude, we think this is a problem, we think that's a problem, you know, but whatever. So number 10 is like Chris Wright authored, zero energy poverty by 2050 is a superior goal compared to net zero 2050.

• 34:38Speaker 03

  This really caught my eye, and I think this is fascinating, because this is my first introduction to this zero energy poverty. Instead of net zero by 2050, which means we don't use any carbon fuels, which should be, it sounds like the focus should be on providing accessible energy and making that the goal for the world. And I'd be curious to, maybe you can explain, how is this, how is this more impactful on?

• 35:05Speaker 05

  Humans. Well, because, because, well, there's a direct correlation between the more fossil fuels we've used over the last 50 years to quality of human life and also life expectancy. There's a direct correlation between the two. And you can't deny it. But like Chris, for example, and like Alex Epstein, who's another philosopher on energy and wrote the book, The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels, spent a lot of time in Africa and looked at what energy does to impoverished, the lack of energy does to impoverished nations, their life expectancy, their environment, all the correlations to energy abundance and energy wealth versus energy poverty and the differences between the two. And like when you, you know, I go to Mexico, I was just got back from Mexico last week.

• 35:50Speaker 05

  You know, it's one thing that I see in Mexico is there's, there's an energy poverty level there. I mean, not to the extent of Africa and some other places in the world, but realize there's seven billion people that live in essentially energy poverty. Right. And it directly correlates their quality of life, their quality of their environment, the quality of, of, of everything they do. And, and I think that that's what is, is important here. We are often left out of the discussion when it comes to the environment. And I think when, when people like Chris and Alex introduce the human nature back into it again, it allows us to ask tough questions. And I think that's what's important about the energy IQ is what I say. Let's have a realistic conversation. Let's talk about humans.

• 36:34Speaker 05

  Let's talk about, you know, nobody's denying climate change, nobody's denying, but let's talk about some of these goals that we're having and what do they mean and why do they make sense or do they not make sense? And I think these are people that before you'd be called a denier, you'd be called, you know, you're just, you know, the science proves that 97% of scientists agree with this. Well, 97% of scientists don't agree specifically on everything. They may agree on three words. Yeah. Or five words.

• 36:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:00Speaker 05

  Climate change is real. Okay, we agree on that, but they don't necessarily, one says this and one says that. So I think adding the human element to that is important.

• 37:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, one thing that I've been interested in is this is the social cost of carbon, SSC, I think they call it. And this is, again, it's debatable, but there is some consensus that there is a social cost because of the carbon that we're producing.

• 37:21Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:22Speaker 03

  And whether that's what impact it has on climate change, what impact it has on health. There is a social cost. Now, some say it's, you know, fifty dollars a, a, a, a ton of carbon, or it's a hundred dollars a ton, you know, per carbon in, in the air. Either way, there is some dollar amount that is, that is, we're paying for the fact that we are still burning carbon.

• 37:55Speaker 05

  Sure, but the social benefit far outweighs the social cost. We're on a net positive.

• 38:01Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 38:02Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 38:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, but that's, but that's like, I mean, that's like saying, I mean, yes, there, we can't get rid of all of the inner, we can't get rid of, of, of all carbon fuels, but we have to recognize at least that there is a penalty that we're paying by continuing to put it into the air, into the atmosphere. Like, it's affecting our climate.

• 38:21Speaker 05

  Any kind of pollution we put anywhere in the environment affects our lives.

• 38:26Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 38:26Speaker 05

  And so, why, we, we can focus on carbon, we can focus on fluorocarides, our corines, all the different things. We abolished through the Montreal Agreement twenty-five years ago, which made the biggest impact of greenhouse gas emissions of all. I mean, when we, when we got rid of aerosol cans and we revamped, vamped all that, and we had a, it was a multi-nation agreement to do that, like the refrigerants and so on and so forth, that, that made a significant impact in reductions to, to basically greenhouse gases.

• 38:55Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 38:56Speaker 05

  And so, but these are things that are important, but pollution in general is what I'm, pollution is not just carbon, not just CO2, not just, like, do you think carbon in general, or what are you talking about, CO2, I'm talking about NOx, SOx, VOx?

• 39:09Speaker 03

  All of that.

• 39:10Speaker 05

  But they're, but they're all different and they all come from different sources.

• 39:13Speaker 03

  Right.

• 39:14Speaker 05

  So which one's worse?

• 39:16Speaker 03

  All of them. Like you want to address all of it. Yeah, it's all pollution.

• 39:20Speaker 05

  That's what I'm saying. So all pollution, but what about pollution to water? What about pollution to basically soil?

• 39:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:26Speaker 05

  What about pollution? Obviously, we talked about air already. There's pollution in so many different things that we do.

• 39:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:31Speaker 05

  And our foods.

• 39:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, that should be addressed too.

• 39:33Speaker 05

  Right.

• 39:34Speaker 03

  But the, the, the...

• 39:35Speaker 05

  But we're not throwing the kind of money at water pollution that we're throwing at climate change.

• 39:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:43Speaker 05

  You know why? The money's not there.

• 39:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, the money's not there for climate change either. So...

• 39:49Speaker 05

  Well, there's a lot of money in the business of climate change right now.

• 39:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:53Speaker 05

  Trillions of dollars.

• 39:54Speaker 03

  This is a frustrating point, I think, for both of us because you're seeing, I think you call it greenwashing, right? Where it's like, hey, this is a green energy. It's gotta be good. Let's put a bunch of money into it. And it's really kind of a short-term fix. It's not, it's not addressing the global issue. And you got a bunch of people just making money off of solar panels or whatever, you know, they're schlepping. But if you look at California, so I just, a little bit of research, maybe you can see if this is correct, Chad, but the societal cost of carbon emissions, just carbon emissions in California is estimated to be about $18 billion a year. That would be based off of the $51 per metric ton of carbon.

• 40:36Speaker 03

  And so per capita, Californians are paying about $470 per person per year for the health and environmental impact from carbon being, being put, pumped out. There's an initiative for Net Zero California 2045. It's estimated to cost as much as a trillion dollars to do that. So I'm doing some quick math and I'm going, okay, 20, and we save 18, 19 billion dollars a year somehow, that's gonna, you know, it's still, we're still quite a ways away from the trillion-dollar cost that it could take California to get to net zero. It's like the math is not working out.

• 41:20Speaker 05

  How, I don't have the data, but I'd love if you'd just email me that link. I'd love to look into that and try to understand how it's carbon, and I guess it's a cost-benefit analysis, right?

• 41:30Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 41:30Speaker 05

  You can't just do a cost...

• 41:32Speaker 03

  Right.

• 41:32Speaker 05

  And not do a benefit analysis.

• 41:34Speaker 03

  Right.

• 41:35Speaker 05

  That's so I don't know what I mean, I guess our economy, what's the value of it? How many, what are we in?

• 41:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, like how how many lives are offset? What's the what's the economic improvements that we're getting and the health improvements we're getting because of carbon fuels? It's not just, it's not just the bad, but my understanding, this is the, this is the net cost to society.

• 41:54Speaker 05

  What's it okay, so with all this goals to spend a trillion dollars or 800 billion or whatever the number, I mean, we know with state projects and it's coming on target.

• 42:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:04Speaker 05

  But one fire season, just like 2020 could negate 100% of all California's net zero efforts. So if fires season in Nevada or Arizona, Oregon and Mexico can also negate this. I was stuck in Mexico because of fires last week.

• 42:18Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 42:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, everything south of the border and all the way up to San Diego were

• 42:22Speaker 03

  Shut down.

• 42:23Speaker 05

  On fires, the smoke was so bad that we couldn't get out of, I was flying, but I couldn't fly out of Ensenada because it's just too bad.

• 42:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:32Speaker 05

  So another thing we're doing, like we're talking about greenhouse, but we're just exporting a lot of our emissions. We're not getting rid of them. We're exporting a lot of that. Most of our electricity or 30% is imported from other states where coal, natural gas and other things are being used to generate it.

• 42:46Speaker 03

  Right.

• 42:47Speaker 05

  Right, and same thing with crude, 60 plus percent of our crude is imported from somewhere else.

• 42:53Speaker 03

  Like Ecuador, you know, from the Amazon.

• 42:56Speaker 05

  Iraq. Iraq, Saudi Arabia.

• 42:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:59Speaker 05

  Colombia, these places don't, I mean, Colombia, okay, but look, and these places don't have the environmental standards at all. So we're just importing and exporting our emissions.

• 43:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:12Speaker 05

  You know, we talk about that all the time, but so Mexico's emissions are driven substantial by their economy. They can't afford the capital things like we do. Do you think Mexico is going to go propose a net zero project?

• 43:22Speaker 03

  No.

• 43:23Speaker 05

  Not at all, they could sign up for the parish to court agreements, but they don't have the money to do this. They can't even, they don't even clean water. They don't have normal sanitation. We all know I've, I love Mexico, I love Baja, I love the the culture. We can't buy agriculture all day long and see what we're competing against.

• 43:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:39Speaker 05

  And we'll never be able to compete with agriculture in Mexico.

• 43:41Speaker 03

  Right.

• 43:42Speaker 05

  When you make, you know, I don't even want to get into that right now because they're getting paid seven, nine dollars a day.

• 43:47Speaker 03

  Right.

• 43:48Speaker 05

  250 pesos.

• 43:49Speaker 03

  Right.

• 43:50Speaker 05

  I mean, you make a hell of a lot more in California. So.

• 43:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:54Speaker 05

  Um, so I think the reality is most countries cannot afford to do net zero. We live in California, where a few select people on the coast can live an extravagant lifestyle and also drive politics, but that's, I shouldn't say that. Uh, volcanic corruptions, permafrost, thawing, uh, that release a large, uh, large amounts of greenhouse gases come from just natural causes. So by thinking there would be net zero and, not be able to, uh, uh, avoid these things, you know, volcanic corruption, one volcanic eruption, like the one we had in Iceland or what it was a couple of years ago, was like enough to wipe out net zero of all around the world.

• 44:31Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 44:31Speaker 05

  So those are things too, but then.

• 44:34Speaker 03

  Well, some of these natural disasters in all fairness can be linked to the, uh, rising temperature, the climate.

• 44:41Speaker 05

  A volcano?

• 44:43Speaker 03

  Not a volcano, but, uh, fires, forest fires.

• 44:46Speaker 05

  Forest fires, yeah.

• 44:47Speaker 03

  Uh, droughts.

• 44:48Speaker 05

  But we still, we will, we, we have forest fires quite frequently.

• 44:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:52Speaker 05

  Say we got rid of, say we got the climate stable, right? And we don't know, are we talking about 1.5 degrees Celsius? Are we talking about 2 degrees Celsius? Are we talking about, what's our number here?

• 45:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 45:02Speaker 05

  What's, I mean, the delta between when we started noticing climate change and where we're at now, you can say that the droughts are persistent, but I really haven't seen the science because NOAA actually reports on fire season. They report on a lot of these things. It's not, it's not NOAA, it's, um, yeah, NOAA often has, uh, so when it comes to droughts and stuff like that, they will come in and comment, does this climate change related or not? And most of the drought periods we've had, they have not said it's due to climate change. So the forest fire argument, I believe there's a lot of both sides to be discussed there.

• 45:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not crystal clear, obviously, and it's not, like you said earlier, a hundred percent, you know, consensus in the scientific community, but the, you know, vast majority can attribute at least some of the natural, uh, occurrences that are happening that appear to be natural, that are clearly increasing because of our, our rising global temperatures, uh, sea level, uh, rise, um, and. And the melting of the ice caps is going to have an enormous economic impact on everybody. And we're sort of kind of in some ways just turning a blind eye to it. I think there can be misguided anger like we're seeing in Sacramento, but.

• 46:16Speaker 05

  Well, okay, I guess it's the arrogance of trying to control it versus mitigating for it. This one I'm where I think it's lunacy.

• 46:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:23Speaker 05

  I mean, I think it's crazy. I think it's important, I always said to reduce pollution, but the fact that we're spending or considering spending a trillion dollars to get to a net zero. And then we're not putting that money towards seawalls, helping people in forests. Actually, I, we live, more people live in the forest now or vacate in the forest now than ever before.

• 46:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:45Speaker 05

  More homes are getting burned in areas where there were no homes before, where the fires burned and they burned. So there's a lot of that data. This is such a big question, but I'm going to bet my money. I'm going to rather put my money in something that is tangible. I know will protect me like, for example, Hurricane Katrina. Hurricane Katrina, they seawalls and what they did after Katrina to prevent the next disaster. Those are practical investments in my mind. You know, it's going to come, you know, you can't control it. So just mitigate for it. That's what we do as human beings, right? We adapt and live in climates that we shouldn't be living in because of fossil fuels.

• 47:19Speaker 03

  Well, the, the direction that we're going, I don't think we'll have any other choice, you know? Cause we're going to wake up one day and.

• 47:24Speaker 05

  So let's save our money now and quit doing these dumb things and basically do it.

• 47:28Speaker 03

  Deal with it when it hits.

• 47:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:29Speaker 03

  Chad, if you could debunk one myth about the oil and gas industry, what would it be?

• 47:34Speaker 05

  Deep one myth, well, give me a myth for example.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, is there, is there, I mean, there's a lot of myths, but like something that you hear and it's just like nails on a chalkboard, you know? It's like this is, it's clearly they don't understand the industry. This is not true.

• 47:47Speaker 05

  Biggest, the, I say myth, the biggest thing I hate to see is the vilification of our industry.

• 47:53Speaker 03

  Bad people, like people in the industry are just selfish.

• 47:57Speaker 05

  When you want to slap big oil, I want you to go over to the next Chevron sponsored event in your community and slap the person giving you that money.

• 48:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:06Speaker 05

  Because that's big oil. They care about their communities. They're active in their communities. They care about their environment. They care about the people that work for them. They're here involved. They don't just do it because they, you know, hey, we don't want it. They've been doing it for years.

• 48:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:21Speaker 05

  Look at, go across the street to Cal State Bakersfield and look at what oil's done. Look at your streets, your roads and everything else. Those tax, all that tax money, majority of it comes from oil and gas.

• 48:30Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 48:31Speaker 05

  So, I mean, stop vilify. Vilifying us is what irks me the most. That's nails on a chalkboard. That's somebody who has ulterior motives. It's like saying mean, mean about, say something mean about someone on the playground or one of your friends and not having the backup to support it, you know? Oh, he's just it. You know, and it's like, no, that's what I hate the most.

• 48:50Speaker 03

  And then the hypocrisy, right? Is they drive their car away or is they eat their food that was cooked with natural gas or is there?

• 48:56Speaker 05

  Food that's fertilized by natural gas.

• 48:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, medicines, you know, all of these things.

• 49:00Speaker 05

  Makeup that makes you look better.

• 49:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're the ones that need it the most. Oh, Chad, thank you so much for coming on.

• 49:07Speaker 04

  Thanks for having me.

• 49:07Speaker 03

  I love that I can bring these hard questions to you and keep up the fight. Kern County, I'll say it before, I'll say it again, Kern County is lucky to have people like you, born and bred here, self-made and, and, and adding value. And I really believe you, you do care about the, the world, the environment. And so, thank you so much, Chad.

• 49:28Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 49:28Speaker 03

  Really appreciate it. That's Chad Hathaway from Hathaway LLC. That's Dustin Weaver. I'm Sharad Way. Tune in tomorrow. Remember, be smart, be safe, and always be money wise.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  Securities offered through SCF Securities, Inc., member FINRA/SIPC. Investment advisory services offered through SCF Investment Advisors, Inc. SCF Securities, Inc. and Money Wise Wealth Management are independently owned and operated.