What It Feels Like To Become Famous | David Birtwhistle | Modern Wisdom Podcast 207

David Birtwhistle is a PT and star of Netflix's Too Hot To Handle. The entire world is obsessed with blue ticks and follower counts, fame "by any means" is a goal desired by many in 2020. But is notoriety for no reason worth it? A huge thank you to my Patrons: Lisa Sproat, Lewys Jones, James Wick, Oliver Robson, Matthew Osborn, Alex Baker, Stephen Mulvey, Rob Murray, Sami Hossny, Kat, Lee Brown, Alex Smith Preson, Kieran Moran, Carrie Murrell, Karen Allan, John Stevens, Sam Billings, Suzi, Jack Revell, Megan, Kirk Grewar, Tim Merchant, James Fitt, Sean Spooner, Erin Guy, Stephen Rucastle & Paul Kirkham. Sponsor: Sign up to FitBook at https://fitbook.co.uk/join-fitbook/ (enter code MODERNWISDOM for 50% off your membership) Extra Stuff: Check out David's website - https://david-birtwistle.com/ Follow David on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/david.birtwistle Get my free Ultimate Life Hacks List to 10x your daily productivity → https://chriswillx.com/lifehacks/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom #netflix #toohottohandle #realityTV - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: [email protected]

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chris Williamson?

  Oh yes. Hello, my friends with functioning ankles in podcast land. Welcome back. By way of an update on my situation, I've got a surgery date booked in, which is Wednesday coming. So this Wednesday I will be going under the knife and then out of action for a little while. Hopefully me and video guy Dean are going to be able to compensate the publishing schedule so that normal service is not interrupted all that much. I know that it might seem a little bit like I've got my priorities the wrong way around to be talking about publishing a podcast whilst I'm getting my ankle knitted back together. But it's important for me to keep putting out something that I care about. It's going to help to hold me accountable

• 0:44Chris Williamson?

  and also it's going to give me a reason to get up in the morning. So we will see what sort of desk adjustments I can make if I'm going to be able to podcast whilst being horizontal is a logistical problem me and video guy Dean are working on at the moment. But yes, hopefully this show will not be too affected. But obviously I will keep you updated. Onto today's guest. David Birtwhistle is the star of Netflix's summer dating show Too Hot to Handle. It was the number one rated show across the planet for a little while. And I thought it would be a good opportunity to sit down with a kindred spirit who's also been through the mill, been through the wringer with the reality TV dating world and discuss how fame and notoriety have kind

• 1:28Chris Williamson?

  of been weaponized in the modern world. You know, people look at someone who's gone on Love Island or reality TV show and think, oh my God, look at that. They got a blue tick. Life must be amazing. They have unlimited amounts of charcoal toothpaste. They must be so good. They're with Wayne Lineker again, again at Ocean Beach. This is amazing. But is fame something that anyone should be searching for? What is the difference between being someone and doing something? It's oddly esoteric and quite sort of existential philosophical conversation that we have today. I was pleasantly surprised to speak to someone who I think is a cut from the same cloth as me when it comes to

• 2:12Chris Williamson?

  viewing the way that fame and reality TV is kind of affecting modern culture.

• 2:19Chris Williamson?

  But for now, it's time for the wise and wonderful David Birtwhistle.

• 2:39Chris Williamson?

  Blue Tick Wanker Club in the building. What the fuck's happening? Reality TV Wanker Club, here we are.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Hey, we've joined an elusive club of people that are known for probably the wrong reasons.

• 2:57Chris Williamson?

  Known for all of the wrong reasons, I think. Yeah, you are very correct. So today, one of the things I wanted to speak about, a lot of people will know you from a recent Netflix series which was called?

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Too Hot to Handle.

• 3:08Chris Williamson?

  Too Hot to Handle. Talk me through that then. Talk me through the experience of being on that. Because yours, unlike Love Island, which was my experience on reality TV, yours was a pre-record, right? You were on that a while ago and now it's just come out.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, we recorded it in 2019 in April, so it was a long time ago. And then it came out like a year later. So yeah, the experience of actually filming it was awesome. Like the show itself, the production team were great and the cast were great and actually had a really good time. So like coming out of it, I already thought to myself like, if this doesn't do very well in the ratings or anything, like I've already gained personal experience from this that's gonna like help shape my life a little bit. So that was really cool. And then, yeah, like a year later, the show launches worldwide on Netflix and explodes.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  And like, yeah, it was like number one in 10 top countries for like a week.

• 4:05Chris Williamson?

  Jesus Christ.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, like America, UK, South Africa, Australia.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Japan, Italy, like loads of places, Brazil, it just exploded. It was absolutely mental.

• 4:20Chris Williamson?

  It's funny that it's distributed geographically because usually like Love Island or Big Brother or whatever is broadcast on a network within a country. And that means that the people that know about the cast members and the storylines are geographically quite confined, whereas this situation is so dispersed. You're talking about people in fucking Italy, like America, like everyone, everyone knows a little bit, but do you know what I mean?

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Mate, it's crazy. It's absolutely crazy. There's like, yeah, it really is a worldwide audience, you know, that people that comment on my posts and that engage with me on social media are from everywhere, like Taiwan, Korea, Russia, you know, New Zealand, Australia, Kenya, literally like all over the world. And it is mental to think that that many people of different origins have seen my face. It's crazy.

• 5:22Chris Williamson?

  Power of Netflix, man. Power of Netflix, honestly.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  They exploded. It was crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy.

• 5:28Chris Williamson?

  They're a, they're a bunch of beasts. Talk to me about what, what some of the lessons that you've learned then since either from being on the show or from coming like it being released and then you're reflecting upon this kind of ascension into notoriety.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  I think that the main lesson that I've learned is that even if you have massive exposure, i.e. a big social media following, it doesn't mean that you're necessarily making a lot of money, firstly, and it doesn't necessarily set you up for success.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  I think there's this big assumption that if you've got a lot of followers, then you're somewhat successful. And although you might have done something very cool or good in order to achieve that follower count.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  You know, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're actually a successful business person or you've got all life figured out or anything like that. And so it was, it's almost like we kind of set ourselves up because of the way the world is at the moment to think that

• 6:53Speaker 01

  someone who has a lot of followers is killing it. And they might not be, you know, like you have to have a business, you have to chase it, you have to work hard for it. Like, you know, I came out of filming and then worked for a whole year to set up my coaching brand, Endeavor Life, put hours and hours and hours and thousands of pounds into that. And since the show's launched, I've like constantly been thinking like, what can I do? Who should I be speaking to? Who should I, who should I talk to? Like podcasts, you know, this is a prime example, like speaking to you today.

• 7:28Chris Williamson?

  Chris fucking Williamson, that's who you should be speaking to, man.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  Exactly. You know, like speaking to the right people, engaging with the right things, and also thinking like, how can I actually create a business? Or how can I have some longevity here and be smart about this? And that's not something that just happens. Like, it's the same as any business. Effectively, you have to work really hard to make something happen. You just have marketing. So like a social media channel or page or whatever that's really big is effectively just a marketing platform. And if you have that, you might be terrible at marketing and no one wants to buy anything off you and therefore you have

• 8:11Speaker 01

  a shit business. So it's just because you have the following doesn't mean that you're gonna be successful. And that is, it's interesting. It's interesting being in the position of before and after. And now I'm like, oh yeah, but the things I want to do, no one's gonna hand that to me. You know, I'm gonna have to create everything and work hard. And it's effectively just given me like a little bit of the step up, obviously. And like I do get opportunities that I wouldn't have got before. But you still have to work for it. It's not that things are given to you. You still have to do the thing. You still have to work hard. And those values that were instilled into me by my parents, like, I

• 8:56Speaker 01

  can't sit back and coast now. Because it's an opportunity that I've got to grab with two hands and work to. Make the most of and um you know it's a privilege and I I can't really squander that. So I think like the that's the biggest thing I've I've learned is that you know before being a blue tick wanker and before having a bunch of exposure, you know, I was there in the same position as everyone else, thinking, oh, that person must be making so much money. And like, people throw random numbers around like, oh, so and so got paid X amount for their campaign, the thingy, and oh, yeah, they make this much money. And like, I mean, some people

• 9:36Speaker 01

  make a killing on social media, but it's still a job. It is it's a job, it's a business, it's a career, and you have to work for it. And if you don't work for it, then you will fall by the wayside. People will not be interested in you. Companies will not want to work with you. And if you're not the right person, it's just not going to be very long term for you. So that's, it's been really interesting to kind of see that coming from before and after. Um, so I think like, that's definitely a misconception.

• 10:08Chris Williamson?

  No, I couldn't agree more, man. I think I think that um what people that look at reality TV or the ascension of celebrity and fame in twenty twenty, what most people

• 10:25Chris Williamson?

  see from the outside looking in is such a different world to what's going on inside. And it's it's fucking cliche to be like, oh, you know, everybody's got their challenges and stuff like this, but it's it's more than that. What I really wanted to kind of try and delve into today with you is to talk about what gives you satisfaction and happiness and stuff in life now. And the same for me as well. I'm in a unique position. We're both in the unique position that we've both had periods where most of a country or a couple of countries have known our names and known our faces. And to a lot of people, that sounds like you've made it, right? But fame for no reason.

• 11:07Chris Williamson?

  Like, because it is fame at any cost. It's fame for essentially just existing. I'm sure that you were like great on the show and came across as a nice guy. But there is probably like 3.5 million nice guys out there. Like, that doesn't separate you at all. And what this ties into is what you were saying there about the fact that you can have a big audience, but if they don't actually connect with you, all you've got is just traffic. Like, traffic is, traffic is great, but if you send tons and tons of people to a site that's talking total shit, i.e. an account which doesn't have any virtue behind it, doesn't really care about what it's putting out there, is essentially only skin deep, then no one's going to monetize on the back of it, no one's going to connect on the back

• 11:49Chris Williamson?

  of it. Like, I said this story before, and you may, you may have like some equivalent stories as well about like, so, so many people, all that they wanted to talk about as soon as I came off Love Island was, oh, man, like, you must be fucking, you must be smashing it now, there must be just like loads of birds, and you must just be, you're making loads of money, are you? Are you making loads of money? And you're like, bro, what the fuck do you think this is? Like, I'm, I'm not Dan Bilzerian. Like, I've come off Love Island, got a, got a blue tick and gone back to my normal life. Like, the vast majority of stuff doesn't change. And as you said, unless you stay relevant, nothing, it goes away very quickly.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, you did. You're completely right.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  It's interesting. It's really, really interesting. So I think like, what is, what is, what's your, what are my values and how does it correlate? Well, like, people knowing who you are, right? So like, that is, you know, some people throw the word, oh, you're famous a bit. And I'm like, nah, some people just know who I am. Right? That's it. I don't think of it as anything else. And I don't assume that anyone knows who I am. I, it doesn't matter. And Effectively, yeah, there's a bunch of nice guys out there and that's, that's cool. And I, I really just, I'm trying to just dive into who I am as a, as a human being and um, use this as an opportunity to, to share some of the positive things that I think I've learnt

• 13:21Speaker 01

  with the world and effectively give value to people through social media. Cause like, it, it honestly, one of my biggest piss, like, one of the things that pisses me off the most is influencers putting up a picture of themselves and the caption being some semi philosophical, half-hearted, complete bollocks that they don't live into. Like, but like, or just like a sentence and it's like, sounds somewhat philosophical, but you know that they do not fully believe, live into and act upon that thing.

• 13:59Chris Williamson?

  Well, they've, they've found that. Oh, they've Googled mindful quote.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Inspirational quote.

• 14:06Chris Williamson?

  Inspirational quote and then copied and pasted it. Man, I, I'm totally part of uh, team influencer dickhead hatred here along with you. We're standing in the fucking, we're standing in the vanguard. We've got William Wallace, he's on his horse riding up and down. Hold, hold. And then there's me and you going, you're a fucking cunt and you're a fucking cunt and you're a fucking cunt. But I, I, you're totally right, man. Like, I said this, I, I said it ages ago. When, when you get a platform of any size, any size at all, you should take increasingly seriously the quality of the message that you're putting out because the impact it has, has proportionally gone up. Like, when, when you have three people that

• 14:50Chris Williamson?

  know who you are and what you do, say what you want. It doesn't impact that many people. If you're Elon Musk, you better be delivering some value on a second by second basis because you affect and impact so many people. And that's why, as you've said there, when you see someone who does have a really big platform, and I'm not going to name names because I can't be arsed with the fucking blowback, but everybody knows, like, pick your, pick your, like, irrelevant reality TV star from the last 15 years and it's probably them. And um, like, Those people, like you have a platform, you have the opportunity to add genuine value to people's lives. You don't need to be a fucking closet philosopher about this sort

• 15:31Chris Williamson?

  of stuff, but you can get behind causes that actually mean something as opposed to just like yet another advert for charcoal toothpaste.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  How does the world need that much charcoal toothpaste?

• 15:44Chris Williamson?

  I don't know, man. I don't, I don't think they need any, but apparently they actually need, they need loads. So you said, you said some of the things that you've learned sort of about life and satisfaction and things that make you happy. So what are they?

• 15:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, all right. So the thing, I think the core thing that I learned is that it's all about human interaction. Like your life's all about human interaction. It's about connecting with people. It's, it's, it's, it's not about numbers on a fucking screen. Like I was, it was, we were in lockdown, the show came out and I'm sat at home, refreshing my Instagram, watching my following count go up and not feeling a fucking thing. I, I did not care and I was so confused. I'm sat there like, I should be happy. People tell me that I should be happy. People make a big thing about followers and how that's important and how you're successful. And I was literally like talking to my mate, thinking, mate, I do not, it doesn't affect me. The numbers on the screen, they don't mean anything.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  What means something is human interaction and connection and connecting with people and impacting people, affecting people positively. Like leave the world better than when you arrived. So for me, that it became so abundantly clear because we're in lockdown and I've got this crazy juxtaposition of the show blowing up, social media exploding and it being deadly silent outside and having like that, that kind of period of lockdown was like my lowest time as an adult, as an individual to how I felt I was flat, I was demotivated,

• 17:25Speaker 01

  I was just not happy and I was, because I wasn't able to engage with people. Like I'm a, I'm a social person. Like I'm an extroverted person. Like I buzz when I'm around others and when I can connect with people and I can, I like see them and affect them and things like that. And I'm sat at home and I'm like. I I this should be the like my life is changing. Why don't you care?

• 17:50Chris Williamson?

  But would you have been, would you have been any different? Would you have been any different had you've been around people? Do you think that you would have suddenly taken a load of value from the followers going up then?

• 18:00Speaker 01

  I think that really what is the, where is the value that you get? Like for me, it's it's all right. So, you know, every now and then people recognize me when I'm out and about, yeah. But like this weekend, there's a person that stuck out and there was, you know, I think probably I went out on Saturday, just in Clapham and probably like 10 or so people, groups of people recognized me. But this one woman came up to me and she was like, hey, David, um, I just wanted to say I'm a really big fan. I love your positivity and what you're putting out on social media. I think it's really great. Thank you so much. And I was like, oh my God, that's so sweet. What's your name? And she told me her name was Fiona and I started Fiona, thank you so much. You literally just made my night. Like, that's so sweet of you to to come up and be so humble and

• 18:44Speaker 01

  like have that conversation with me and like that, that meant a lot because I could see the effect, the positive effect that I'm having on her from putting out content that I think a lot about. Um, like that is more impactful because I can see that person. It it becomes real, you know? So that's um, that's the difference. I don't care about someone being like, oh, you're that bloke off, off, off that show. Like, that means nothing. Like to be noticed doesn't mean anything, but to see impact, that means something.

• 19:21Chris Williamson?

  Dude, that's it. That's it there. So you have defined the territory as far as I can see there. Let me, let me see if I can do a little bit of sense making from some things that have been floating around in my head and maybe some of this stuff will land with you. So, um, the problem that I have with most reality TV, and I appreciate I'm a massive part of this problem, having been on it, is that people are chosen as the lowest common denominator and the lesson that it teaches is that fame and notoriety by any means is all that matters. What I mean by that is a perfect example, Tommy Fury, fantastic boxer, worked his entire life to be a good boxer,

• 20:03Chris Williamson?

  made his name by existing as an all right looking lad with a bit of a tan on TV for a while. His talent had absolutely nothing to do with his fame. So the decoupling.

• 20:15Chris Williamson?

  Of talent from notoriety has removed the value that fame used to give us. The reason that people used to be famous is because they've done something. Now people are famous for simply existing. And the problem with that, as you've identified, is that it leaves you with a very, very hollow sensation. Because you know that the fame could have been taken by someone else. Had there have been another David doing that thing at that time on the show, they would have got the same as you. The same as me, the same as Chris on Love Island, all the rest of it. However, when you do something which is both challenging and worthwhile,

• 20:56Chris Williamson?

  like grinding away on a business and putting thousands of pounds and hundreds of hours into it for a year, or creating a social media content that you feel is a true representation of your inner logos, the way that you believe the world to be and you hope that it helps someone else make sense of it. And then they come up and tell you that is a sense of satisfaction derived from something which is closer to your higher calling. And I think what I really want people to take away from this is what you said when you were watching your follower count go up as just this arbitrary fucking number, numbers on a screen. And had that have been, had you have got 1.3 million followers

• 21:38Chris Williamson?

  from constantly putting out like just amazing content that tons of people resonated with, you would have first off selected for a ridiculously mindful audience that super, super aligned with what you think and what you feel. But also you would be, you would feel so much more close to them because it would be due to your higher calling, right? So this, this fame and notoriety by any means, I think, leaves.

• 22:08Chris Williamson?

  First off, it gives off the wrong impression to the people that watch because they presume that that's something to aim for. Don't worry about about what I'm famous for, just get me famous, right? Like, and the problem is, a perfect example of this is that fucking, I think Conor McGregor and Elon Musk and Kendall Jenner and, you know, some other person have probably all got the same number of followers, but they've got there from very, very different ways. Like, you can't have one currency that equates multiple people from one metric of success, which equates multiple people within different domains of competence. Like Elon Musk, as lovely

• 22:50Chris Williamson?

  as Conor McGregor is, Elon Musk is worth 10 Conor McGregor's because Conor's not going to fucking get this species to Mars. Like, but because people have this now ubiquitous social currency that they can use, oh, David's David's at 1.3, but this other guy that was on the show is only at 800. That must mean that David's fucking 1.5 times as much as this person. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't know, that's, that's just a conception that I've had in my mind, that like decoupling of notoriety from fame by any means to actually trying to bring it back to it being, right, be famous for something. Want to be, want to be someone, you know, want to do something.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, dude, that's so spot on. That is so spot on. You've very eloquently delivered the information in an understandable way. Like, that was really brilliant. And actually, that's something that I'm like, you know, thinking, thinking now is like post, post show, like, what is it? Like, I'm asking myself this question, like, what is it that you're gonna do? What is it that you are going to do to impact and be known as? Because just being known.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  Who gives a fuck about just being known? It's about doing something. So like already, like obviously I'm, um, you know, doing a lot of stuff in, in health and fitness. And that's something I already like have, like I am a coach first and foremost, like I'm a coach. I've been a coach in the health and fitness industry for 10 years and it's not something that I plan on stopping doing. But I'm thinking like, what else can I do to, to, to do more, you know? So you're so right. And it's such a shame that fame has been decoupled from talent. Um, and there's so many people with massive followings that talk absolute shit.

• 24:48Chris Williamson?

  They don't deserve it, man.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  And leave the world, no.

• 24:51Chris Williamson?

  We know that, we know that they, they don't deserve it. And this is don't deserve it in the purest sense of the word. And what I mean by that is that there is literally large swaths of the population who would do better with that platform. Like when I see people that are plucked out of the, the, the mire, the, the muck and the fucking feces and the straw on the floor in, in the, the back carriage and they get brought up to first class and they get this huge platform. And then they, they squander it with just bullshit. I'm like, do you know what it is? That's someone that could have done something, but instead wanted to be someone.

• 25:32Chris Williamson?

  And that, that to me, as you, but it would appear me and you agree on, like, don't desire being someone, desire doing something. And if you can become someone that people know because you have done something that resonates with them and that you felt compelled to do and feels like a high calling. That is when those two things marry. Fame should be because you have done something valuable and virtuous and worthwhile that adds value and makes people feel better and leaves the world a better place than when you arrived. If that's where your fame has come from, fucking power to you. And if someone gets a platform like yours now and then uses that to leverage a message,

• 26:17Chris Williamson?

  which should have been heard, one about health and fitness, one about living virtuously, one about mindfulness, one about being, leaving the world a better place than when you arrived, or whatever it is that you're working on at the moment. If you use a huge platform to then further leverage that message that it gives you even more returns, again, power to you. But if you do it the other way, like if, if you don't have a platform and you're just chasing being someone, and if you become someone without doing something and then choose to just spaff it away, like just wasting it away.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  I think it all, I think it all comes from like what your initial intentions are, right? Like where does this all come from? And a lot of what I've realised in life is that, yeah, there are some dead fast like things that it doesn't matter what your intentions were, they're wrong. But there's a lot of things where actually it's the intention behind the action as to whether it's right or wrong to do it, right? So like, let's just take becoming famous. And you just kind of said it in a way there, which is easy to understand, like, why do you want to become famous or why do you want to be known? Is it because you just want people to know your name? So you walk into a room and people look at you and they go, oh, that girl. So you know that people know who you are because you need some narcissistic validation

• 27:33Speaker 01

  about who you are because you don't have any self-confidence and you're completely void of any like internal happiness and you just need someone to validate you every fucking minute. That doesn't necessarily, that wouldn't be the real, the best, best reason why to become famous or to be known. But do you want to use an opportunity to develop a platform in order to better enrich other people's lives or to create change or to share a message? Because like, truth be told, I did this show because I knew, fingers crossed, it would give me a platform to be able to do exactly what the fuck I'm doing now.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Like that was it apart from it was going to be a great opportunity to do something and tell my friends and have a story to look back on and be like, yeah, that was fucking cool. But also because I was already doing the exact thing I'm doing right now before the show. And like anyone who's been following me for years will have seen that I'm the exact same content before and after. And so it's like, why you want to do something defines as to whether it's the right or the wrong thing to do.

• 28:49Chris Williamson?

  I understand what you mean. I you it's a very rare person, man, to go into a situation and then like ten thousand X their platform and come out and still be largely the same person after that. I think that

• 29:05Chris Williamson?

  that's something that you should be proud of. If that's the case, if you've managed to maintain

• 29:11Chris Williamson?

  attached to this same person that you are, I think that's something that you should be very proud of.

• 29:16Speaker 01

  Well, dude, it's like honestly, the show itself was a good catalyst for me as an individual. Like I went into that show and they put me in a position to think or swim. And the good news, the good thing was that I was already like on the journey of personal development, self-development. Like I was already talking to a coach. Um, like a performance coach, like a mindset coach, and I was already reading books and and kind of on that personal development journey. And then got put into the put into the position being on the show and and then they were like, okay. The point of this show is to develop better, more meaningful, deeper connections with other people. And I'm like, fuck, yes, count me in.

• 29:58Chris Williamson?

  That's like, that's like being a professional Iron Man and them saying, right, this is going to be a run, swim, bike dating show.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And I'm there like amazing. So like when there were opportunities for me to choose to go in deeper or pull out, I took the opportunity to go in deeper. And that's why I personally got more out of it, out of the experience.

• 30:27Chris Williamson?

  On a dating show, on a dating show, never pull out, David. That's the lesson that we're taking from this.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  Never pull out. Rule number one, apply.

• 30:36Chris Williamson?

  Go in, go in deeper.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Go in deeper and enjoy the process. Yeah.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  It was, it was good and like I personally got a lot out of it in terms of um relationships and realising that um what I really want is to be in a like a happy, committed, deep relationship with someone and um I was just fucking scared of getting hurt. And that's why I kind of kept girls at arm's length because I was scared of getting hurt. And so effectively that the show was a catalyst for that and made me fucking very aware of it. And then also it made me so aware how actually like in life, we we don't have the opportunity a lot of the time to create these deep connections with people because of a lot of the things which keep us on a superficial level.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  It might be that we have friends because we go out boozing with them and we don't actually know they who they are properly um because we never have deep conversations, you know. It may be that we float around from job to job or we're constantly transient from city to city or um we're trying to do things for the gram instead of enjoying the moment and being present like I didn't have my phone, you didn't have your phone when you were doing Love Island and you realise that actually conversations with people, sharing things that make you scared, sharing moments of triumph and jubilation, they're the things that bring you together. And like when you get to know people on a real deep human level, that's when you become closer with people.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  So it reminded me to put my fucking phone down, stop watching TV, create opportunities in my life to actually connect with the people that matter the most and to stop putting time into the experiences which give me little else other than short term quick fix joy. Which don't get me wrong, there's I'm keen on some short term quick fix joy every now and then like it's a great time. I went out on Saturday, for example, it was fucking brilliant. But it's not something which it really creates much depth in your life and that's what a lot of people are really missing out on is that is that depth and.

• 32:52Chris Williamson?

  That um that insight is worth far more than a million followers.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  Fuck yeah, a hundred percent, man. That's what I said like at the start of this podcast. I said that having done the experience, I came out. And I was like, it doesn't matter if anything comes of this when it comes on the TV. I've already learned, I've already become a better person. I've already had an invaluable life experience. So that's, you know, that was, it was huge. And

• 33:25Speaker 01

  it's, yeah, it was really interesting, actually. So that was definitely big lessons.

• 33:30Chris Williamson?

  Dude, I mean, rightly so as well. Like, I don't know how many people per presume this, that you go on, you go on a dating show and you get catapulted towards a life of integrity and virtue because of it. But you've got two, two sort of living and breathing examples. Perhaps you went in a little bit more actualized than I did. I was a, like, lost fucking soul before I went in. And I, my lockdown week, before my press lockdown week, I read the first books into uni, which was The Pilgrimage by Paulo Coelho. And it sent me west, sent me totally west because it was so meaningful. And I had nothing else to think about other than this fucking crazy book. And I'm having all these dreams about it.

• 34:11Chris Williamson?

  And then I go into the villa and they're like, right now flirt with that girl over there. And I'm having this semi fucking existential crisis. Cause I've just read Paulo Coelho as the alchemist, the alchemist. Yeah. I'm like, fucking shit.

• 34:25Chris Williamson?

  Oh dude, anyone that needs, needs an easy read, pick up anything by Paulo Coelho. It's really, really good. My mum loves him as well. Shout out mum, Mrs. Williamson. She'll be.

• 34:36Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, dude, I am. I think gaining that kind of insight is, it, it, there's literally no price that you can put on that. And the quicker that people realize that this isn't just me and you saying it because it's convenient. I've got, I'm talking to a guy who has just gone from essentially relatively zero to a million and a bit followers on Instagram, which to most people would be like the ascension to the fucking heavens. And we are both telling you. That doing something is more important than being somebody. Like, this isn't part of some fucking David Icke, Brian Rose, London Real Conspiracy bullshit.

• 35:21Chris Williamson?

  Like, I'm not doing this so that we can keep all of the followers for ourselves. I'm saying this because this genuinely is the closest proxy to what me and you think the truth is. The truth will be floating around in there somewhere. We're not perfectly precise human beings, but we're as close as we're gonna get. Let's change track a little bit. What did you learn? Or what are your views on how reality TV has affected young people's views on dating?

• 35:55Speaker 01

  How has it affected their views on dating? It's hard to tell exactly based on just reality TV. But I think that it makes people feel like the thing that matters most is how you look. Because the shows, reality shows, pick objectively pretty people. And so, you know, there's this idea that it's all about your looks. And often they pick stupid people. And so you get this connection between stupidity and beauty. And that can often influence younger women especially to not

• 36:39Speaker 01

  chase their intelligence and pursue their intelligence and their humour and their quirks. And like the internal beauty of who they are. Because what is mainstream is superficial, is your eyelashes and your nails and your hair and your bikini and all of that that goes along with it. But I'm gonna tell you straight up, like, beauty is not the most important thing. By a fucking country mile. And, you know, if you are just pretty.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  That is all that people will ever see for. Like you look at a painting and you're like, that's an objectively beautiful painting. I, you know, I don't know anything about his personality. I don't know what the quirks are. I don't know if it's funny. Like, if all you are is pretty, that's all you'll be seen as. So in order to gain depth and a deep connection with someone and to be seen as more and to have those real deep things, like I think that it's a shame that those are not encouraged. Because actually, when guys are ready to settle down and when guys are looking for a girlfriend and like, if you're, to be, to have that commitment, there needs to be more than just beauty.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  And it's, it's, you know, I think that's a real shame that it

• 38:03Speaker 01

  almost discourages girls to look at those more deeper parts of who they are. Um, and guys, I don't know, how would it really affect guys? I think it, it probably makes them think that in order to get the girl, you have to be an arrogant little cunt. Because that's how most of the guys come across. It's how producers often try to make you behave.

• 38:27Chris Williamson?

  But they want, this is the thing that most people don't realise that in reality TV, especially because there is a limited amount of time to do character development. The producers, the producers look for people that fit into archetypal roles. So you want the hero, the maiden, the villain, the dorky one, the pretty one, the nerdy one, the this, the one, the that, the silly one, the one that pisses on the floor, the one that does this, you know, you want, like, those are the archetypes. And the reason for that is it expedites people from having to get past working out who that is and allows the storylines to be the front and centre. You don't still want, after six weeks of watching a TV show, you don't still want to not quite work out

• 39:12Chris Williamson?

  whether David is a buff gym guy or an introspective philosopher. You want to just be able to go, yeah, David, he's the job. David, he's the nerd or whatever it might be. And what you get with that, by virtue of that, um. You get people that play into those roles on these shows, which means that they kind of double down and go out to the extremes of these of these particular caricatures that they play, right? They become a caricatured version of themselves, which is really bizarre to watch and quite entertaining as well. But dude, I agree. I think you've hit the nail on the head.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  It's entertaining, but it's super one dimensional. It is one dimensional. If you're trying to fit into a hole, you're trying to fit into a pigeonhole, then you have to be one dimensional because that pigeonhole is not big enough for all of the intricacies of your personality. So and there's not, there's not enough time for the, for the show to get that across.

• 40:08Chris Williamson?

  That's it, man.

• 40:09Speaker 01

  And so like you have finite moments and opportunities to get across who you are. And especially like I was filming for four weeks and there was eight episodes and each one was 45 minutes long roughly, 40 minutes.

• 40:23Chris Williamson?

  That's no time.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Right? There's no time at all. So you're only going to get certain opportunities to display your depth, right? And that was one of the things why I was like, right, well, these are opportunities. Like we had the workshops on the show. And so I just was like, I'm going to fully commit to this. Like this is an opportunity for people to see that I am not just a guy that works out, but actually that there is more to me. And I'm lucky. I'm lucky because most reality shows do not give men the opportunity to do that.

• 41:02Chris Williamson?

  Dude, so I haven't, I haven't seen it. After speaking to you, I'm tempted to go and watch it now, but I couldn't agree more. Most reality TV shows select for the lowest common denominator. Do you have a tan? Do you have a, do you have a set of abs? Are you going to flirt with that bitch over there again?

• 41:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And it's, it's, um, you know, reality TV, you have to remember is it's it's TV. It's a show, entertainment. It's there to entertain you, but at the same time, it's confusing because it's called reality TV. And there are a lot of them which are realities, some are kind of more scripted than others. Like, to be fair, mine wasn't wasn't particularly scripted. Like, we were put in situations, like we were put in, doing the workshops, for example, and, um, you know, they were like, okay, this is what the workshop is. But there was, very rarely,

• 41:57Speaker 01

  can you go and say this to that person? Like, I never got told to do any of that. It was, okay, David, um, don't say that now. We want to get the cameras in and we'll film that later. You know, it was, let's get stuff set up. And the truth is that people need to remember that TV is TV. And really, let's go back from TV into social media. If you follow someone that you've seen on TV and you think that they're cool on TV, start following them on social for a bit if you like them, and then check out what the actual value of the content is on their social media. Like, if you are following someone and you watch their account and you feel bad

• 42:39Speaker 01

  and you get any negative energy, if you get, like, if it just makes you feel jealous or it just makes you feel depressed or anxious or that you're not worth it or whatever negative feeling you get from looking at their channel or their page or whatever, unfollow them. And if it's me, unfollow me. Like, I want people to be happier when they leave my page. Like, that's the point. And if someone's just putting a photo of them in a bikini with a star emoji caption, fuck them right off because. What is the value in that? They're only doing it for narcissistic reasons.

• 43:15Chris Williamson?

  Perhaps. There's a plain devil's advocate with that. There is a place for

• 43:23Chris Williamson?

  easygoing, interesting content that doesn't have to make, you know, you might, not everybody that's listening wants to have to delve into the existential crisis every post that they look at.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  True. They can be entertaining, right? And there's a lot of accounts out there which don't give deep value, but they're entertaining and they're funny. Like, you know, that's the thing. That's like, absolutely follow those accounts. I follow a bunch of them. They make me laugh, but that's a positive feeling. They make me laugh.

• 43:53Chris Williamson?

  As opposed to people that are just taking up mental bandwidth for no reason.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. You know, and like, what would you watch on TV? Like, you watch stuff that makes you laugh, teaches you something, makes you have a little thing, or is just some light-hearted situation. And that's absolutely cool. Instagram, because it's photos most of the time, it can fall away from those categories and into just look at me.

• 44:20Chris Williamson?

  But again, again, you'll do it as well, man. Like, we got to play the game. I always say this to everyone. I can talk about the virtue of living out your highest calling and all this bullshit and try and delve into sense-making and yeah, man, it's all about your logos and speak your truth forward and stuff. But I know for a fact that if I post a topless photo, I'll get twice as much engagement as if I put anything else up. So you've still got to play the game. It's like.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Play the game. Play the game. But like, what's the caption?

• 44:50Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  This is my point. So like.

• 44:53Chris Williamson?

  First trap in the photo. First trap in the photo.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Put some quality underneath it, whatever. Like, and like, we both know that that's the case. Everyone knows that sex sells. Like, we're humans. We like having sex. It's cool.

• 45:09Speaker 01

  We're all in the same boat with that one. But like, we we can kind of use that to, again, like, why are you doing it? It's like links back to earlier, like what my initial point was, like, why you do something defines whether it's good or bad generally. There are exceptions, but for you posting a topless photo, like you're a good looking lad, you've got great teeth and a great body, like it's understandable that people are going to engage with that. But like, what do you choose to put underneath it? Is it something like pointless?

• 45:38Chris Williamson?

  Live, laugh.

• 45:39Speaker 01

  Entertaining and engaging or is it giving value or?

• 45:43Chris Williamson?

  What I put is, life is a beach. Live, laugh, love, just be true to yourself. That's what I put because that was the top result in inspirational quotes on

• 45:58Speaker 01

  That's perfect, mate. That's it. And just make sure you're on a beach when you're doing it. You know, maybe casually walking away from the camera, looking back as the sun sets over the water.

• 46:07Chris Williamson?

  That's what's happening, man. Look, David, this has been cool, man. I'm really glad that we've connected. You're you're a great guy. It's nice.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  Same, man.

• 46:14Chris Williamson?

  It's nice to hear that there's a kindred spirit coming out from, coming out from reality TV. Genuinely, man, I think the days of, you know, as much as I love them, everyone that was on the show, the days of the Geordie Shore, lowest common denominator, like, I've pissed myself again. Like, I really do hope that the days of that with reality TV are gone. I hope that people have had enough of it. And if we've reset some people's ideas today about what is valuable, like you want to do something, not be someone, you want a connection, not not followers, like, i- if that's, reset some people's ideas of what is valuable and virtuous and worth pursuing

• 46:57Chris Williamson?

  mostly in life, then I think we've, it's been forty five minutes well spent, bro. So let's add to your existingly massive online presence. Where should people go if they want to follow you online and what's your website and stuff like that? What do you want to plug?

• 47:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, if you guys want to follow me, it's at david.bertwistle or if you want to check out my fitness page, it's at Endeavour Life. And they're the best places to find me. I give loads of free information out on Endeavour Life. And it's a little bit less completely fitness focused on my personal page, you know, usually talking about a bunch of stuff that we talked about today, actually. And it's generally what's going on in life. It's very much a personal, personal thing, you know, you never know what you're gonna get.

• 47:38Chris Williamson?

  I like it, man. Look, David, today's been really cool. Everyone that's listening, if you've got any questions, comments or feedback, you know where to go. Get at me, at Chris Will X, wherever you follow me, or leave the comments on YouTube, or do whatever you want. Leave your comments to David and it'll take him a couple of years and he might end up getting back to you. Now, David, bro, thank you so much for your time.

• 47:55Speaker 01

  Cheers, Chris. Have a nice day, man. I'll speak to you.