The Contrepreneur Formula Exposed: Behind The Scenes | Mike Winnet

Mike Winnet is an entrepreneur and a professional Get Rich Quick ad clicker. The people who made the real money in the gold rush weren't digging for gold, they sold shovels. Fast forward to 2019 and the new gold rush is on to discover the magic formula for passive income. Enter the contrepreneurs. Mike has spent half a million pounds on putting the claims of internet marketers to the test in a documentary, from crypto mining to property investments, stock trading to amazon affiliate sites. Today we get to go behind the scenes. Extra Stuff: Subscribe to Mike on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/mikewinnet Follow Mike on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mikewinnet Watch The Contrepreneur Formula Trailer (full episode will be updated here once it's live) - https://youtu.be/ZK1z_rNrhgA Check out everything I recommend from books to products and help support the podcast at no extra cost to you by shopping through this link - https://www.amazon.co.uk/shop/modernwisdom #contrepreneur #mikewinnet #garyvee - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: [email protected]

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I am Mike Winnet and I am a get rich quick ad clicker. All those things that you see in your newsfeed, on Facebook or Instagram. I think they are amazing. I'd love to be a millionaire in six months. So I believe them all. I click them all. I invest all my own money into it. Here's everywhere I put my money. This is what happens over the next year. This is what was promised and these are the results. And that's all I do. I put that content onto YouTube.

• 0:21Chris Williamson?

  What's the success ratio been like?

• 0:23Speaker 00

  None of them have worked so far, which is weird because the only people that seem to get success from it are the people that are selling you their course to do it, which is, I mean, maybe I'm just unlucky. I'm trying my best to make them work. They just don't so far. But I still carry on winning hope. I will be a millionaire this time next year from all of these different schemes.

• 0:45Chris Williamson?

  I am joined by Russell Brunson's best friend and the undirected king of LinkedIn, Mike Winnet. Mike, welcome to the show.

• 0:54Speaker 00

  Cheers for having me on. Thank you.

• 0:56Chris Williamson?

  It's a pleasure to have you here. Massive fan of your YouTube channel and the work that you've been doing recently. Lot to talk about today. I think a lot of the listeners will be very familiar with internet marketing and get rich quick schemes and they'll be targeted by the ads probably on this video on YouTube. They will almost definitely be targeted by those ads. So yeah, we've got a lot to delve into today. So for the listeners that don't know who you are, would you be able to explain what you've been doing on YouTube over the last few months?

• 1:27Speaker 00

  Yes, so I am Mike Winnet and I am a get rich quick ad clicker. So all those things that you see in your newsfeed, on Facebook or Instagram. I think they are amazing. I'd love to be a millionaire in six months from dropshipping or through flipping products on eBay and affiliate marketing. So I believe them all. I click them all. I invest all my own money into it and I report my results as they are compared to what the claims made by the gurus is. And that's all I do. I put that content onto YouTube and you can see for free whether they work or they don't.

• 2:03Chris Williamson?

  What's the success ratio been like?

• 2:06Speaker 00

  None of them have worked so far. No one, which is weird because. The only people that seem to get success from it are the people that are selling you their course to do it, which is, I mean, maybe I'm just unlucky, but I'll promise you, I'm trying my best. I'm trying my best to make them work, they just don't so far. But I still carry on in hope I will be a millionaire this time next year from all of these different schemes.

• 2:30Chris Williamson?

  I think one of the, you've hit straight on one of the points there, which is that unless you have the money to be able to spend on these particular courses, there's no, there's no way of foolproofing them.

• 2:42Speaker 00

  No, no, no, that's, that's true, that's true. Uh, yeah, so there is, there is no way to foolproof them. I think the, the problem with them is how they're marketed to people is if anyone can do this, it's easy and it's passive income and you can make this money from two hours a week, three hours a week. It's like targeting people that don't want to put the effort in, in many, in many ways. But also, of course they're going to make it sound easy and anyone can do it with no startup cost because if they said, actually it's a hundred hours a week and you need money to start up, then they wouldn't sell as many of these courses. So that's true.

• 3:18Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, it's, it's so interesting. I think that proliferation of these sorts of schemes and, and adverts and, I mean, anyone who's scrolling down Facebook, the number of times that I've heard the sentence on YouTube, I can't believe that people are still working in this old way, but like an Australian guy, then an American guy, then a guy from down south, then a whatever guy. And it's like, what the fuck is going on?

• 3:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, like stupidly, um, I have worked really hard to earn money. And when I had my own business, I used to do six days a week, 16 hour days, and I didn't get paid what they're getting from just doing two hours in their mom's spare bedroom, you know, per week. I wasn't getting those returns. Um, and then luckily I was lucky enough to grow a business and sell a business and then create enough money to afford me to do this sort of two year little, uh, experiment, which I regret sometimes.

• 4:17Speaker 00

  So I have my ups and downs, but it's like a love hate um kind of project, to be honest.

• 4:23Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, well, I mean, you've you've recently sort of seen a massive influx in terms of exposure and plays, all right? Like, the last couple of weeks have been insane.

• 4:31Speaker 00

  I was on 5,000 subscribers two weeks ago and now it's on 17,000. So last two weeks, it's

• 4:36Chris Williamson?

  Dream.

• 4:36Speaker 00

  No trip. Yeah.

• 4:38Chris Williamson?

  Absolute dream.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  Well, say the dream, but you'll you'll know this more than me because I've never had Instagram before. I've never been on Facebook before and I'd obviously started YouTube in January.

• 4:49Speaker 00

  What I find is the more people that start subscribing, you get two sets of people. You get like fans that love what you're doing, but then also people that hate what you're doing. But they still subscribe to tell you they hate what you're doing. So it's crazy. I I've worked it out now. It's roughly 1,000 views equals one thumbs down. That's my sort of raised rate at the moment.

• 5:09Chris Williamson?

  Yep, I think that's about right. It's it's interesting as well when you talk about um the little asymmetries in your exposure. And you'll notice this with your better performing videos. And some of the listeners may know this as well. If you've ever posted a piece of content which is absolutely banged, like gone gone much bigger, like 2X to 10X more than your usual piece. It kind of opens that sphere of awareness outside of the usual people that are just a part of your like crew. And they know what you're about and they're always going to give you a bit of support. And then what you actually see is like this little, you just get to look through the peephole and you see the real internet. And you're like, oh, that's the fucking, that's the no man's land out there. That's the where the savages live.

• 5:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, I've I've had that with the entrepreneur formula video. That's the one that went, so my videos are doing about 20,000 views. That was almost at 200,000 views before it got pulled and we'll talk about that later. But that did 200,000 views, but what that brought was hundreds and hundreds of comments like calling me out. I mean, some people even noted it a bunch in in the comments. I never noticed that before I had a YouTube video.

• 6:20Chris Williamson?

  They're very observant. The people of the internet are crazy observant, man.

• 6:24Speaker 00

  I know. It was news to me. But it just makes me think sometimes. It's like, some of the comments on there, for example, are this is a channel for losers. But then he's made that comment on every single video. And you almost want to say, so what are you still doing here then?

• 6:36Chris Williamson?

  Why have you got so much time on your hand? If I'm the loser, how come you've got so much time on your hands?

• 6:41Speaker 00

  I know. I know. It's funny though. But that's the biggest thing. So like, you're unsuccessful. That's the only reason it doesn't work. You're a loser. You'll never quit the nine to five grind and all these things. Ill-informed comments, really. But I suppose that's how people get on in life. I don't know. It's just the internet, isn't it? It brings out the worst in people because you can hide behind a fake profile, fake username. So.

• 7:02Chris Williamson?

  There's an interesting point that Jordan Peterson made, actually, in an interview a year ago. And he said that because social media is so new, he was specifically referring to Twitter, but the same thing works for every social media. We don't know what causes people to respond. Like, we haven't done a study on which people, how the data skews on which people reply to tweets, or which people comment on YouTube videos. It might be that it skews massively towards the people that have had a bad day. Might be if you've had a good day, you just don't, you don't respond. For whatever reason, you're either in too good of a mood or whatever it is. But it might skew that like 90% of the comments that you get are from people that have had a ruthlessly bad day.

• 7:42Chris Williamson?

  So they might not actually be assholes, but we just don't know. And when you look at it, when you take an aggregate view across the board, just looks like everyone's a cunt.

• 7:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, I say that. There's a video on YouTube and we talk about it in our office. It is, it's David Attenborough, isn't it? You know, the animal guy. And it's called Dave and Attenborough Talks About Giraffes. And it's a four-minute video about giraffes and it's got 35 thumbs down. But it's just giraffes and David Attenborough talking about it. And it makes me think, what were you expecting?

• 8:16Speaker 00

  There's still thirty five people that have hated that video enough to say, oh no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna thumb that down.

• 8:21Chris Williamson?

  Fuck you, David.

• 8:23Speaker 00

  I know. Oh, and even it was like, oh, his voice is terrible. It's like.

• 8:28Chris Williamson?

  It's David Attenborough. Sir David Attenborough.

• 8:32Speaker 00

  But yeah, so it's just, that's the internet. I, I, we, we've started to make a joke now that. We'll have a forty minute video that goes up and it'll have one thumbs down as soon as it gets uploaded. So someone subscribes specifically to thumb my stuff down. Stops what they're doing. Give us a thumbs down.

• 8:49Chris Williamson?

  Pulse notifications turned on though. They've listened to you. They've turned the pulse notifications on. They've just done it for the wrong reason.

• 8:55Speaker 00

  And it's, it's just funny how people. Um, are on there and how people are on LinkedIn towards it now because obviously the. The message has got a bit more serious now. And I think people thought I was joking when I first started because I said, I'll put my money where my mouth is. And I will invest in these things to prove whether they work or not. Because I'm not calling them all a scam. Per se. I'm just saying, I think the results promised are highly unlikely, but let me see if it does work. And if it does work. You can copy what I did for freed out to pay me for the course. You can watch how it works.

• 9:28Chris Williamson?

  Absolutely. And before we, before we get into the, the thick of it, uh, ladies and gentlemen, if you are listening right now, head to wherever you are and give us five stars or give us a thumbs up. Let us know that you're listening and fight back against the arseholes of the internet. Thank you very much. Um, so the first thing that I wanted to know, Mike, was actually the, uh, to roll back a little bit and work out what you did before this. Cause in one of your videos, you mentioned you had a company and then you managed to get an exit. Um, you, I think you fondly refer to it as being kicked out of your own company. Uh, with a, with a paycheck. Could you give us a, a brief bit of history with that?

• 10:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I had a company that I set up with three of my friends. It was called Learning Heroes and it was, um, we would make blended learning resources. So e-learning. Uh, content, animated explainer videos. Um, on loads of stuff like cybersecurity, data protection, leadership, teamwork in, working at heights, just normal boring work stuff.

• 10:23Speaker 00

  But made in a style that was uh more in keeping with how we'd learn at home, so it'd be short, animated explainer rather than click next, death by PowerPoint. So it's basically interesting e-learning, if there is such a thing. There wasn't really, if I'm honest. We sold that to corporates and then corporates could use that in that company to help them train their staff. So we made content for trainers to use to do um employee training, basically. And it was always a three-year plan. So we thought, make the business, grow the business, look to partner certain companies that might want to buy us out, look to target some companies that do similar things to what we do and they might want to buy us

• 11:03Speaker 00

  out to protect their uh client base, create competitive tension, sell to one of them, then walk away with our money. And it was a three-year, three-year, ten million pound plan. And we did it almost. We didn't quite get the ten million. We got eleven million dollars, but it was eight million in cash two and a half years later.

• 11:23Chris Williamson?

  That sounds like, that sounds like an incredibly well-laid out and well-executed plan. Had you had success in business like this before?

• 11:30Speaker 00

  No, I had worked in two startups before. So I had seen startups from almost day one through to maybe two, three, four years down the line. And um I was a trainer, a sales trainer for a company that sold franchises. So every week when a new franchisee come on, I would help them set their business up. So it was like I was kind of helping startup businesses, week after week, and I'd stay with them for a few, for a couple of weeks. So I was doing it for a salary for other people for ages, in a completely different sector, by the way. And I just thought, what am I doing building someone else's business when I've got all the knowledge, I can see what's worked for them, I can see what they could do better in trying to apply it to um a sector that I thought we could grow

• 12:13Speaker 00

  a business in. And e-learning was the easiest sector in my mind at the time. I had no background, no background in that sector.

• 12:21Chris Williamson?

  What an unbelievable uh identification of a niche to capitalize on.

• 12:26Speaker 00

  Well, sure it was. This doesn't sound like a crazy story. So I just walked out of the job at the time, had a baby on the way and I had good money. And um I had a bit of a disagreement with the boss and he said, my problem is I want everything to run perfectly. He said, if you had your own business, it'd be very small and very well-run, but it wouldn't make much money. So I handed him a notice right there. It was like ten in the morning, come home. And then he said, they basically put them on gardening, so I had six weeks to come up with an idea. And then I looked up what jobs were available, basically, and every job description was saying stuff like, must be able to work in a team, must be able to manage your time properly. And I thought, you're not going to have a GCSE in time management.

• 13:08Speaker 00

  What courses are available, looked online, saw the courses and it was like a four hour course on time management and it was like click next and thought, well, if I want to find anything out at home, I'll go on YouTube and watch a five minute video. And that's where the idea came from. Why don't we learn at work how we learn at home? And then um I had friends that had a training business and they had, they did a lot of face to face training and between ourselves, we come up with the idea.

• 13:34Speaker 00

  That was it.

• 13:34Chris Williamson?

  It's great. It's honestly the fact that I suppose this is kind of oddly romantic, given the path that you've gone down at the moment, the fact that it was uh such a transactional uh relationship between you and your business, which ended up being like the one that banged. It was just find a niche.

• 13:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:55Chris Williamson?

  I don't find a niche. Crack on.

• 13:58Speaker 00

  I don't want to sound like a, like a bit of a weirdo, but I've got a kind of checklist that I think a business would work in this sector. So if the sector has these certain criteria, I think and I can apply this checklist to that sector. This will blow, if anyone that's watching this, this will blow some people's minds if you read the YouTube comments. Um I've, I've, I'm a failure in business. I'm just a, an internet troll, but yeah, but my legit business, I've got like a checklist that I follow. There has to be certain market conditions. You have to be able to offer a genuine alternative. That was one of the biggest things in e-learning. Um if you want me to talk specifically about e-learning, but everybody. Here's a great example, recruitment agencies, there's hundreds of them and most recruitment companies are started up by someone that used to work for a recruitment company.

• 14:43Speaker 00

  Right? We're different, but the only difference is they charge 1% less or the fees are slightly smaller. They haven't got a genuine USP. But they all like to say they're different. What we did with e-learning was we looked at it and everybody charged per course, per head, long contracts, it was long drawn out content and we just thought. Why don't we do the complete opposite? So we'll just, it's pay a monthly subscription and you can get access to all of our content. Similar to Netflix. Similar to Netflix, we'll give you new content every week. So when a new course comes out, you don't have to pay us any more money, you can have it for free. And we said, if you don't like what we do, we don't want to keep someone unhappy, just leave. We're not asked, just, just leave. We're not trying to get the most money out of you. We want you to be a fan, an advocate.

• 15:27Speaker 00

  And we did that and we absolutely just tore, like hammered the industry. We were taking people's, by their front and centre. And people said, you must have your pricing wrong because it's so much cheaper than everyone else's. And we said, no, they've all done it wrong. This is how it should be done. And it was one of the companies that told us in the first few months that, you know, we wouldn't be around if we carried on like that, that ended up showing the most interest to buy us out.

• 15:52Chris Williamson?

  Amazing.

• 15:53Speaker 00

  So, but yeah, it was, it was, it's quite an interesting story in many ways, but don't want to sound weird, but we knew it was going to work. We knew it was going to happen. So we sort of planned for that exit in the first couple of weeks. It was like, this is the day we are going to sell and this is how much we want. So every decision we made on that way was backwards planned from that point.

• 16:15Chris Williamson?

  Unbelievable. That's so good, man. That's great. It's really nice to hear, especially given that you've worked through the industry and a lot of people that are listening, right? This kind of ties into, I suppose, why people are tempted to do these online courses from the entrepreneurs, the, the, the online marketers, because they want that. They want to be able to know that in three years' time, I've got an exit that's worth nearly 10 mil. Like that's, you know, that's, that's the goal, the fucking golden dream that everybody wants, but yeah, the whole point of what you've come across there is that you, you had some existing experience, which at least allowed you to frame the particular situation appropriately. And then moving forward.

• 16:56Chris Williamson?

  You came up with a unique product and then just single, single mind aimed towards the goal that you knew that you wanted.

• 17:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:04Chris Williamson?

  The whole point of that is the fact that you had a unique offering, like without the unique offering, everything else would have just fallen apart. But the first thing that strikes me about these online marketing courses is that if everyone is learning the same thing as you, your offering cannot be unique by definition.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, I say it so many times, logic would state you are turning your customers into competitors and it's the shittest business model ever. That's, that's why it doesn't work. It's like, oh, I'm going to teach you. So if I had a property seminar and I did property training in Warrington, and I'm showing, I'm talking to a thousand people and I'm a property investor and I make most of my money in property in Warrington and I can tell you how to find below market value deals. Why would I teach a room full of a thousand people how to do the thing that I earn my money from? I want as few of you to know how I make my money so I can carry on making my money unless, whisper it, I'm not making that much money from actually property investing. I'm making money from teaching people how to invest in property,

• 18:03Speaker 00

  which is something I think that a lot of these people do. And yeah, go on.

• 18:09Chris Williamson?

  So let's get into it. How would you define a entrepreneur?

• 18:15Speaker 00

  So really, I think a entrepreneur is someone that sells shovels to a gold rush. So they're telling everybody there's a gold rush on, this is how you can become rich and wealthy, yet they don't make money from the actual thing that they're telling you to do. They are selling you theory on how to do it, but there's no evidence to suggest that they've made that money doing that very thing. And that's what it is. And it's targets as many people as possible to sound as easy as possible. And then once they've got you in their sort of sales funnel, they will upsell you. Well, do you know what? The reason why it's not worked at this stage, six months down the line is because actually if you just pay me another three grand for my once a month mentor and I'll give you an extra bit of the secret sauce and then

• 18:59Speaker 00

  ah, the reason why it's not worked now, well, the reason why it's not working is because it doesn't work, but they'll still tempt you. Well, there's actually a higher level to get to and then you'll know the real secrets and the real secrets. So it's just basically getting you into the net, following you through and taking as much money from you as possible. That's it basically, and they follow pretty much the same script. It doesn't matter what the passive income thing is that they're selling. The language is the same, the formula and the process that they use to get you in the net. Even through to the same backstories, I hear the same backstory at different events now, because I go to all these events.

• 19:33Speaker 00

  And so that's what they do. They basically sell shovels to entrepreneurs and people desperate to leave the rat race, basically.

• 19:41Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, nice. I like that as well.

• 19:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, so they're entrepreneurs and they basically sell the dream to entrepreneurs and sometimes it's vulnerable people, desperate people. But I'll say this and be clear. I don't think that all training is bad. I don't think that all training is a con. I don't think that any, every single person that ends their price in a seven, which is something that a lot of them do. Is a con, because if you read the YouTube comments, some people take what you say literally, like, oh, well, he's got a price that's a seven. So you're saying he's a scam. Like, no. If you get value from that and you have achieved that thing from that person, he isn't a entrepreneur. To you, he might be to the 99% of other people that failed on his course. Do you see what I mean?

• 20:24Speaker 00

  But everyone wants blood, don't they? Everyone wants you to basically spell it out to them and say, right, this person's a entrepreneur. This person's a contractor. I don't know every single one of them, but people want me to. My DMs now is, what about this guy? Is he a contractor? I've never heard of the guy.

• 20:36Chris Williamson?

  Fucking clue, yeah. You're not, you're not the glossary. You're not Wikipedia for entrepreneurs on the internet.

• 20:41Speaker 00

  You'd think I was though. From my DMs, it's crazy.

• 20:45Chris Williamson?

  Well, I think the, the reason for that is that so few other people are doing this. Everyone else is drinking the Kool-Aid. But the, the only people that you see that are touting these sort of online get rich quick scheme courses. Are their ambassadors or the, or the showcase clientele that they've got. And for the fact that you are the only person that I've ever seen, really, that's not like just some disgruntled sounding like old, like wife from god knows where, the back end of Nebraska or something like that. Who's written a bad review on TrustPilot and you're like, I don't, I don't know. I don't understand the process. And so you went, you went and did a lot of these courses, right? Do you know how many you've done?

• 21:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, I've been to 12 actual events, like face to face. Well, here's my ClickFunnels event. Here's my affiliate marketing event. Here's my dropshipping event. Here's my branding event. But how it actually started, I didn't set out to do this. So when I sold the business and I got given um the lump sum of money, I I I mean, I don't know your background, but we're working class kids. We're not told how to handle money. We're not told how to um handle that amount of money. That's how come, you know, when people win the lottery and they blow six million, seven million, I was like, ah, that would never happen to me. That is a lot easier than you think, because you do not know what to do. You don't understand. People think if you have a million pounds, put it in a bank, live off the interest. You can't do that.

• 22:11Speaker 00

  Your interest is probably point nine percent. Inflation's three percent. You actually lose money putting a million pounds in the bank, but people don't understand this concept. And that's not their fault. That's because working class people aren't taught this stuff, because we're supposed to be good workers. And so I was given this money. I thought I was doing the right thing and going to find financial experts and independent financial advisors to tell me what to do with my money, because I thought I've hit the jackpot here. I could either have the best two years of my life and then get back and have a job or

• 22:42Speaker 00

  be boring. And make sure that for the next forty years, I get paid a steady income from this money. And it'll only be, say, twenty, thirty, forty grand a year. I say only, that's a lot of money, but it it's not I'm a millionaire money. It's it just pays your bills or, you know, so that was the plan. Every single person I saw, fifteen different financial advisors, they're talking to me, investing all sorts of stuff. And my question was always the same. Don't tell me what returns I will get. If you believe in the asset you're trying to get me to invest in so much, how much of your own money have you got in this? So if you're telling me to invest in the Cayman Islands because I can make three hundred percent, logic would state every single penny you get paid, you'd put in the Cayman Islands, because then you'd make three three hundred percent back on it.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  Not one person, not one person would either show me how much they'd invested in their own asset or how much they were really getting, which then made me think.

• 23:34Speaker 00

  Do they make more money from telling other people to invest in this, you know, amazing investment opportunity? Or do they actually really believe what they're selling? And then I just thought, you know what? I'm going to look at some more left field investments like crypto mining and some of the except, you know, property, we all know you can make money from property long term, 10 years, 15 years and stocks and shares over time, you can see that. But the ones that may made sort of like, we raised my eyebrows were the interesting ones, whether anything that was flashy, anyone that had a 23 year old lad sat on a Lambo on Instagram, I thought, you know what? I'll just put a little pot of money into these things, almost like a gamble. You know, I'll put five grand into that, 10 grand into that. And that's what I've done, but to the tune of nearly 500,000.

• 24:19Chris Williamson?

  Is that your total cost so far?

• 24:21Speaker 00

  How late so far? And this is why when people say you want this to fail, you couldn't be further from the truth. You couldn't be further from the truth. So we've got properties we've bought in the UK just to test the returns that were promised by some of the people that we've been on the courses. Property in Spain, we've got crypto mining rigs, so we've got like a crypto farm running to test those results. We've invested in cryptocurrency as an asset rather than mining it. We've got, we've just just bought an affiliate marketing site. I did the video last week. So we've put 10,000 into an affiliate marketing site. We've got stocks and shares.

• 25:00Speaker 00

  I've put 250,000 into stocks and shares and it's just going to be here's everywhere I put my money. This is what happens over the next year. This is what was promised and these are the results. And then I would almost give them a result. Would I invest with this again, knowing what I know now? Yes or no? Am I going to make this amount of money? I'm going to make a billion pound? No, you're more likely to make 10,000 pounds. Don't quit your job if you want to do this. And that's all it is really, but I don't want anything to fail. I'm not deliberately trying to sabotage anything.

• 25:30Chris Williamson?

  You need a, you've got to have a very particular mindset if you want something to fail to the tune of half a million quid.

• 25:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're the first person I've told that bit to. Most people don't think, um, I think they just think that I'm going there and deliberately, you know, trying to just, just show up the people that are on stage, but I'm not there naming individuals. It's more like an observation of the actual asset or the passive income stream rather than this guy, he's a con artist because, you know, I'm giving them all the benefit of the doubt. I think they really are just trying to give back to a, to other people and help them become millionaires. It's not, they're not doing it so like in their own pockets. I think they really are giving back and they're genuine people.

• 26:09Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. So one of the things that I thought, and we'll get on to the entrepreneur in a second, because really now that it's been taken down, the only way that we can talk about it at the moment is by us discussing it. The only way that people actually know what the fuck's going on is by this weird retrospective like nostalgia that we're gonna have to go through. Um, but one of the things that I thought to be really interesting was the fact that you and your team elected not to name names. And I think there's a point where you go and you managed to wangle a meeting with Gary Vee in New York and you go see him and you sit down and you're on camera in that famous office he's got, which just looks like chaos. And, um, he, he's pushing you to say like, who are the people?

• 26:52Chris Williamson?

  And then rather than like, and that's Gary, it's Gary fucking Vaynerchuk. Like the listeners will know I've got mixed feelings about Gary, but like what you think about him aside, that is the opportunity. If you were ever gonna do it and not be called out by the people on the internet, it's like, look, Gary Vee wanted me to fucking tell him, but what you elected to do was cut the recording. So you cut the recording and told Gary and then you cut back in. So what I really liked about that was the fact that it, it shows that this isn't a head hunt, or at least primarily this isn't a head hunt from you guys. This is you with genuine, uh, sort of inquisitiveness and a little bit skepticism, just trying to find out what the fuck's going on, trying to cut through some of the bullshit.

• 27:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, like that's it. Like I don't want this to be, and I'm not saying, I would just say it's John Smith. I don't want this to be an expose of John Smith because in my mind, what happens is this. There are ninety nine other people that are using exactly the same tactics as John Smith. But if then you, he's, he's the entrepreneur guy. It doesn't solve the problem because everyone thinks, ah, I've not been scammed by that guy. If I just make people aware of the tactics used in the industry. If they get that feeling, ah, this sounds a lot like that entrepreneur formula. They will then start to question whoever's trying to sell, sell to them in that way. In my mind, I think that actually helps more people than just saying, oh, this is, I don't know.

• 28:19Speaker 00

  I just picked random gurus like the Tony Robbins show, or this is the, whatever, the Gary Vaynerchuk guy, whoever it is. That might win it, you know, might win it as the entrepreneur, whoever it is. I just think that was better, but also, I don't want to get sued. I know what, I don't want to get sued and, and what I've noticed is there's a lot of people that have got a lot of powerful friends. And these people make a lot of money for a lot of the social media platforms as obviously I'm finding out now. Um, there's only going to be at this stage, one winner in that let's expose them now. Um, but I tell you what, Gary actually told me that I do need to name someone. He thinks that I should name someone and if I want to take it to Netflix, it needs to be named someone. But I think that's based on the name I told him off camera.

• 29:05Speaker 00

  Do you see, I, I'll tell you.

• 29:06Chris Williamson?

  Do you think, has Gary, has Gary got a, a, an agenda there?

• 29:10Speaker 00

  I mean, only he can answer that honestly. I mean, I can speculate. I would suggest that when I told him the name of the person and he was pretty much bouncing off the wall saying, yes, that's the guy.

• 29:23Speaker 00

  You know, that would suggest that he also thinks the same about that person. But, you know, he's been on the same card as, as that person. He spoke at the same events, granted they weren't on stage together. But they've been at the same events, so it's, he doesn't mind getting paid to be there while that person's there. So you can, and, and this is me being balanced and neutral on it. I've got very similar feelings, I think, to Gary V as you have. But then at the same time, if you're putting out content every day, you're going to say a lot of things that contradict each other and stuff like that, so.

• 29:56Chris Williamson?

  Hmm, yeah, he's a unique guy, Gary. So my, my only, like, so my major gripe, I'm going to go off on a Gary tangent for like one minute. My major gripe.

• 30:03Speaker 00

  I get lots of stuff about Gary, by the way. People now think that I'm like.

• 30:06Chris Williamson?

  Best buds with him.

• 30:07Speaker 00

  You know, yeah, like I've met the guy once. And he said he was going to introduce us to Netflix. He's still not managed to do that yet. So like, I'm not a Gary Vee fan, I'm not a Gary Vee hater. Gary Vee is just a guy that runs a business and could potentially help me out or not. That's it as far as I'm concerned.

• 30:23Chris Williamson?

  Fuck me, like Gary's contacts are unbelievable. So I'm good friends with the guys from Social Chain, which isn't far from you in Manchester. Big social media agency. Good friends with Dom, who's the COO and a bunch of the guys that were there from the start. And I discussed this about Gary there and my only, my major concern about Gary is that he doesn't sleep enough. That's my major concern. I'm just thinking, there's a couple of immutable truths in life, right? And like, not sleeping equals earlier death and Alzheimer's. Like, that is a fact. Same as dropping a ball from a height. Like, it is, it's coming for you, Gary, because there's some toxins in your brain that really, really need to fuck off and all your myelins.

• 31:03Speaker 00

  It's dangerous, isn't it? This whole work, you know, till your eyes bleed, that mentality, it's dangerous. I get you have to work hard, but you can't sustain that for 23 hours a day for three years, five years, 10 years, because all you're doing is, it's got, the reaction or a consequence of that is you're shortening your life by 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. So yeah, some of the advice he gives, I think is bullshit. But then, you'll know this from the internet. I think on the internet, people think if you like someone, you have to agree with everything they say. They say one thing you disagree with is, I hate that person now. I don't like that person now. So I don't agree with loads of things my friends say. You don't fall out with them or whatever. It's like, they say some things that's true, they say something that's bullshit. You're just

• 31:48Speaker 00

  but with the internet, it's crazy, isn't it? It's like people like, I love Gary, everything he says is gospel. Well, don't say, don't think that. It's stupid if you think that. Do you know what I mean? And I think sometimes people take everything he says as gospel and like, you've got to do that. You don't. I think a lot of the stuff he says is bullshit, if I'm honest.

• 32:02Chris Williamson?

  Hmm. Yeah, you're totally right. The overworking thing, I've done it and you may have done it as well in the past, like in your twenties, Jordan Peterson, again to sing his praises, he says that everybody in their twenties who's an entrepreneur, it would be a good idea for them to work out just how much they can work. So it's 80s, you don't have sufficient responsibilities that are going to hold you back from working to your maximum capacity. And he actually suggests that for short periods, see if you can do 14 hour days, six days a week and see what happens. And I didn't do it by design, but I've done that more by neuroticism, I think, but and fear. But yeah, I've done that and I've played around with that. And then he's saying, well, okay, now see what happens if you only work two days a week. And I've also tried doing that. The

• 32:46Chris Williamson?

  two days a week for me personally was a lot worse because of the cabin fever than the 14 hours. But I think you're right, Gary, you have put the words hustle and grind on the bottom of Perake Swiss. Like as soon as, as soon as you've done that, you, you kind of, you're kind of out of the chill out of from work conversation. Like that's you over there with your hustle and grind shoes on.

• 33:06Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. At that event that we went to, I went to a success resources event and Gary was there. And just seeing people with his trainers on and that and like seeing people like grown men queuing because you paid, if you wanted like a diamond ticket, so you could sit two rows closer than the people that paid 10 times less sat behind you. And you got to ask Gary a question. Grown men in K Swiss hustle and dirt clouds and whatever it is, heaven and hell shoes, whatever bullshit it was that they were wearing. One question you can ask Gary Vee, this is the guy that you know, you worship, you idolize, just can I have a hug? Grown men saying, can I have a hug? And I was just like, what's this world

• 33:49Speaker 00

  come to? Like you could ask him anything about business, you could ask him, but that's what it came down to. It's just a weird kind of world we live in.

• 33:55Chris Williamson?

  What a bizarre situation. So getting back to the entrepreneur, can you take us through the entrepreneur formula, please?

• 34:04Speaker 00

  Yes. So the entrepreneur formula was after going to numerous events and live events like say the 10x, the success resources and property shows and any, any of these type of events that you see all the time advertised. What I started to notice almost verbatim was the same script used by every single speaker. It turns out, by the way, I can't remember the guy's name now. There's a trainer that trains these people on, you know, that script, which I may or may not be signed up to go to.

• 34:38Speaker 00

  So to the point where, so Ian is my business partner, he was also in the all business as well. He's like, we're slowly getting him shot a few times, he's just like. Is he the bigger dude? Don't say that, he's been a, we look very similar, I think. Yeah, you do. Yeah.

• 34:58Speaker 00

  He'll watch this as well. Sorry, Ian, you look great, man. There you go, yeah, so, yeah, so to the point where me and Ian could almost look at each other and say, the next bit, they'll talk about a bullshit backstory and say, ah, here's the time where they, they were the one that, you know, went out on a limb and they got this amazing opportunity. Three, two, one, hey, and then my daughter twisted her ankle and then the coach came over and it was like, a player twisted their ankle and the coach came and said, has anybody bought the boots? Yes, my daughter was there, good to go, and she got the game. And literally, I could, I can word for word say exactly what they say. And we're like, this is absolute bullshit. So we just thought, why don't we write this script from these shows and actually test what these people say?

• 35:42Speaker 00

  So when they were saying stuff like, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity, I'm never going to offer this price again. We thought, that's really interesting. We'll just go to your next show that you're doing in two weeks' time at a different place and we'll just check, fact check everything that you say. And we found out that they were lying because it was exactly the same pitch, exactly the same price. And the show that they said they weren't going to do ever again, they were doing in three weeks' time at a different venue. To the point where we started seeing the same pounce in the crowd at different events. So they are paid for professional customers that get dead excited, rush up first. Because some of them were working on reception, signing us in, registration at some events. But then they were in the crowd running onto stage, let me sign up now.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  And we just started to notice like a lot of strange things happening. And we just thought, this is quite funny, why don't we turn this into a program or an episode and put it on YouTube? And we called it the Entrepreneur Formula Exposed. And that's what we did. So we explained about. The use of a, so bullshit backstory, there's always a warmer pack, they get you to commit, they get you to commit. All these events start off with, they make you raise your hands and it's very much like hypnosis. So it'll be, so who here wants more money, everybody's hand goes up. Who here would like more time, everyone's hand up. Who here thinks they deserve more, everybody's hand goes up. If someone didn't put their hand up, they would be singled out and it was like a shame in practice.

• 37:07Speaker 00

  So they would say, oh you sir, mister, I've got, I've got enough money, you don't need enough money. And then from that point on, he would always, but it was, it's part of the show, it's part of the whole. Oh shit, if I don't put my hand up, I'm going to be shamed. No one likes to be shamed in front of a, a big crowd. So there was shaming. Then there was the bullshit backstory of, I was sat just where you were two years ago. I was working sixty hour weeks for a boss that doesn't appreciate me and I had mortgage payments and. You know, you can think about this for a year and you're still going to be in the same position, but you need to take this opportunity now, grasp it. It's all, is it, eh, Cialdini, Cialdini, you know, the influence.

• 37:45Chris Williamson?

  Robert Cialdini, yeah, yeah.

• 37:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:49Speaker 00

  So it follows that process and then, eh, well, I took the opportunity and you know, what, what will you lose if you don't do this? And then it would be that amazing opportunity presents itself. I took the first step, you can take the first step today. And then it comes down to testimonials. So here are people that were just like you from last year. On the other stage, which turns out now obviously been to a lot of these events. Some of these are professional testimonials, they go to all these events and read out the same script. So I've seen the same two or three people at different events saying, yes, I've signed up to this course, so.

• 38:22Chris Williamson?

  Different people, different, different events for different speakers.

• 38:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 38:27Chris Williamson?

  Wow, wow, okay. So there's, there's even like these mini, mini industries for people facilitating these people.

• 38:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, of course, yes.

• 38:38Speaker 00

  But I'm not, I've not gone. Let's go and expose this. I've just been going there to say, let's go and find some stuff to invest in. Wow, that's the same girl that was in Birmingham three weeks ago that ran on stage. What is she doing running on stage at this event? Oh shit, that's the same person that rushed to the back of the room to sign up at the course at that event. Oh, hang about, why is she signing us in today when she was the testimonial three weeks ago? This seems a bit weird and it's almost, almost it was amusing to us. It was just funny to us. Like, wow, this is so, it's so bullshit. It's unreal. Um, so that was all, that's all it was. And then it'd be scarcity. So, oh, by the way, you know, oh, no.

• 39:20Speaker 00

  Um, increase their value. So normally my product's thirty thousand pound, oh, sorry, twenty nine thousand nine hundred and ninety seven, because it's always a weird price. Um, but today, because you guys have took the first step, you know, I'm going to sell this price for three hundred and ninety seven pounds. It's like, you're not going to give someone like ninety eight percent off. If it was really worth thirty grand, you wouldn't be selling it for ninety nine percent off, would you? It's like, it's never been that price, just. So it's the same inflated value. And then often it was, so then everyone's dead excited. And then the first three or four people get up to, you know, sign up. And by the way, we've only got ten of these left today. They say there's ten left. So it's fake scarcity. I've got no problem with these tactics when they're real. Real testimonials are cool.

• 40:03Speaker 00

  Uh, you know, I'm a genuine advocate of that product. It's helped me. Um, that product was really thirty thousand pounds and it's a genuine discount. You can get it for fifteen thousand pounds. All them things are cool and they are real sales tactics that work. It's the intent of the person using them and whether it's fake or authentic. That's what I've got a problem with. You know, if you're a good person trying to give someone a good product that's valuable and will help them achieve their goals. These tactics are perfectly fine, in my view, my view. But fake testimonials, fake scarcity, people pretending to be customers in the audience rushing to the back room. That's not cool in my mind. So, yeah, they'd rush to the back of the room. They'd say there was only ten of these products left. They'd still take money from seventy people with no due diligence. It wasn't like, well, can you afford to do this?

• 40:48Speaker 00

  Um. Are you in a position to pay this two thousand pound now? People are paying on credit cards. I've seen young lads signing up to property courses aged sixteen, seventeen. They can't get a mortgage at that age. So why are you allowing them to sign up to your property course? Now, I get that some people watching will say, well, it's their own fault for signing up. Ah, yes, I get that. But a sixteen, seventeen year old lad in that scenario that's not worldwide and it's just been sold the dream that he can be financially free and not have to work again. And they even say stuff, sorry to go off on a tangent. They even say stuff like, um,

• 41:25Speaker 00

  your friends and family won't understand this. If you talk to them, they'll tell you that it's not worth doing it. It's almost like isolating you from sort of logic. Well, they're losers. They've never achieved it. They bought the pill that you go, yeah, they've swallowed the bullshit that you go to college and you work a nine to five and it's forty hours a week and you struggle all your life to pay off your mortgage. It's very clever what they do. Anyway, so then they they sell you with a fake scarcity. They sign you up and then before you know it, you're in the sales funnel and then they are offering you upsell, upsell, upsell at every single stage, the point where they offer you the chance to come and talk at their event at a testimonial as part of their premium package. And I know people that are on stage in Florida, talking at an event to convince other people that their business has been transformed since they've signed up.

• 42:09Speaker 00

  But I know these people. I know their business because they're friends of mine. And they're not making any more money now than they were six months ago when they signed up to this course. They've just spent an awful lot of money to have a few pictures with celebrities, hang around with these business mentors and now convince other people that these scams work. Does that make sense?

• 42:30Chris Williamson?

  It's incredibly predatory. That's the first thing that comes to mind, especially when you're talking about young people, vulnerable people. Like, obviously, if you were in a stable, happy life with a job that you loved, you wouldn't be like going to see Robert fucking Kiyosaki at the Sage in Gateshead or something like that. You wouldn't be doing that. So. First off, they're already selecting for the people who want this to be the answer to their problems, which suggests that those people have problems. Then they're using tactics which are purposefully manipulative. Neuro-linguistic programming, the stuff from Bob Cialdini. I've had Rory Sutherland on, who's a friend of Bob's, and he was talking about how powerful that stuff is.

• 43:13Chris Williamson?

  I've also had Robert Greene, the guy that wrote Forty Eight Laws of Power and Mastery and Laws of Human Nature and stuff like that. I don't know whether you know this, but the reason that Robert Greene made Forty Eight Laws of Power the way that he did, he says that it is a cookbook with ingredients but not a recipe. And the reason that he did that was so that bad actors couldn't use the tools in a manipulative fashion. And the fact that fucking Robert Greene, five times over New York Times bestselling author, is having to like nerf his own products to stop bad actors like these ones, getting a hold of his tactics and using them to then manipulate people.

• 43:58Chris Williamson?

  And then on top of that, to like finish off the whole, I mean, I'm a club promoter, right? That's my business. I run nightclubs, I have done for 13 years. And we use some scarcity, we'll hold the queue 20% longer than we need to. We'll slow the entry because if you're walking past a club that's got a big old queue outside, you're like, oh, fucking hell, there we go, a bit of social equity, a little bit of, you know, a sociated high esteem for going to that venue. But there's a big difference between slowing a queue down by like 20% and paying people to sprint to the back of a venue to spend five grand on a thing when you're surrounded by vulnerable people who've just been told, buy now, if you buy now, then you can buy now and you need to buy now.

• 44:41Chris Williamson?

  Like if you keep on repeating these things and using these tactics, it's incredibly manipulative. And obviously the worst thing is it's fucking effective.

• 44:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've got the the one on the buy now thing. So um the script that we recorded, we were at a branded event. So it was an event where a guy said, so boost your business. It was a crazy claim. He could change any business from his um business plan he was going to give you for three nine seven. Uh three three hundred nine seven pound, which is usually uh five thousand dollars, but uh five thousand pounds, three nine seven. It was basically a G C S E business, business like plan. You you download it online, it's bullshit. Anyway. He would turn your business into a ten million pound business in eight months. Which is a mad claim when you don't know the sector of the people that are in your audience or what they're like as individuals. But people swallowed it. Seventy people got up and signed up.

• 45:32Speaker 00

  Um now, in the close of his pitch, he said buy now twenty three times in the three minutes leading up to the price reveal. Um and it was ridiculous. It was like, by now you realise you can't miss an opportunity like this. Um if you follow this step by step, um buy now, it was like, everything was like, it was like, bye, bye, bye, bye. It's the point where like, we're laughing. We find it funny. Interestingly as well, in the crowd, when some people, it's like hypnosis and they kind of weed out the people that won't work on. So they get rid of people that are negative from the crowd. They get told not to come back. Or they get they they get moved constantly. There's people in the audience being moved and.

• 46:10Chris Williamson?

  Did anyone just refuse? Because especially being British and being as disagreeable as I am. If someone came over and I was sat down in a seat and they said, you didn't put your hand up when you said, do you want more money or more time or something like that? Like, I I I wouldn't move. But are people just so into it that they're already getting shifted around or?

• 46:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's it's it's it's strange. It's like, have you ever watched um? This will sound weird. I used to live in Ibiza for a long time ago. I used to live in Ibiza and there used to be a team of pickpockets that worked on the street below the apartments I used to live at. And I used to watch them every night. And I used to, to the point where I I could see the signals, so like one of the flashes lighter, then the the the crowd would start moving. It was all basically easy. And this this the street would stand still until someone came, either drunk or intoxicated. The sign would be given to let people know whether it was it was under the influence of drugs or drink. And then literally a ball would roll out into the into the street. A woman would walk past, bump him, and I'd see I'd see people get pickpocketed over and over again.

• 47:13Speaker 00

  The scenes in these rooms are very similar to that. It's like people move at exactly the same times when I've seen the same show at different events. People, it it's it sounds like I'm crazy explaining it, but when you've seen that many people at these events and you've seen so many of these events, you'll realise the whole psychology of the event and everything is set up for you to um spend your money, basically. And anybody that doesn't look like they are going to do that, they get rid of them. So.

• 47:43Chris Williamson?

  The main thing that I I'm struck by there, apart from the fact it's manipulative and and and is taking advantage of vulnerable people, is how fucking sophisticated it is.

• 47:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was big business though, wasn't it? So say these events, um I don't know, say it's a success resources event. However much that person on stage sells, they have to pay fifty percent to success resources. That's how it works. So it's big business. So that's why they want to fill the rooms. That's why they get people to move forward so it looks busier. That's why everybody in that room wants you to spend money. So no one's there trying to help you. If it's not right for you, they're not going to say, do you know what? And I think that's why people leave of their own accord, because they realise it's bullshit. But everybody else around them is like whooping, stood up. I remember speaking to one woman that she didn't have a business. And she went and spent two thousand pounds, what was one thousand nine hundred and ninety seven, one nine nine seven on a course

• 48:35Speaker 00

  to brand her business. And I actually said to her, what what are you doing? And she went, oh, no, I couldn't. This is it. This is what I needed to, but you've not got a business or service or product that you sell. So what are they going to brand? Or it doesn't matter. They'll help me come up with an idea for a business. And I just think there's people like that, that she was paid on a credit card. She's not got a business. She's not got a service. Why are they taking two thousand pound off her to help her brand her business that doesn't even exist yet? It's it it kind of blew my mind really. But yeah, a lot of people get up and leave. Um they don't let you eat or drink in there. Um because then you get, it's called decision fatigue.

• 49:16Chris Williamson?

  Yep.

• 49:16Speaker 00

  So they they make you, they make you stay for like four or five hours before you get your first break. But then after that break, the numbers have dwindled massively because most people realise this is a pitch fest. I'm not coming back. So anybody that returns after that break, they're more likely to buy. And now it will be a higher product. So what happens is is a, I call it a tripwire. So low value product to start with. Who takes the bait? Right. If seventy people have signed up now, we could probably sell them the five grand. Um. Product in the afternoon and then the following day it could be, well, now we'll get the mentor. But the following day, some people think, shit, I spent five grand there. I regret it. They've got, you know, buyer's remorse. So the next day, the number's a lot less, but the number's a lot less, but they are the most qualified people and they have bought into your bullshit the most. And they're buying twenty, thirty grand mentorship.

• 50:00Chris Williamson?

  They're the warmest leads that you're ever gonna have in your life, eh?

• 50:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, of course. And don't get me wrong. If this product really did work, I'd be all for it. I would be saying, you know, but look at the stats. The stats show that maybe one percent of these people, what one percent of people are successful through these courses.

• 50:19Speaker 00

  But it's weird. The only people I've met that are successful through these are actually part of that organisation or selling you that product. So I've not met someone that's made a million dollars through the ten X course, let's just say, through Grant Cardone's university or Cardone Capital. I'm just, as a, as a random example, by the way, I'm not saying it's him. It's just a random example. Yet, I can show you ten, fifteen, twenty, ten X affiliate resellers that will be telling me that Grant Cardone has changed their life and they are millionaires.

• 50:47Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 50:49Speaker 00

  You're selling his product. You've not made your money through the thing that he says that we are gonna make our money from. You are making your money through selling the thing that he says we are gonna make our money from. And that, I'm yet to meet anyone, hundred percent unbiased and independent that's gone, actually, yeah, no, I, I invested Cardone Capital, I'm a millionaire now. Not one person. I mean, if you are out there, get in touch.

• 51:12Chris Williamson?

  Yep. Link is in the show notes below. Come and email us. So, moving on. Uh, this really cool, very interesting documentary blows up on YouTube. I enjoyed it, thankfully. Um, and then what happened?

• 51:25Speaker 00

  Uh, so, I, I only found out on Saturday. So Saturday, uh, Ian sent me a message saying there's been a copyright strike or there's a strike against our channel. And Russell Brunson from ClickFunnels, who provides the software that many of these entrepreneurs use to, obviously if you click on their advert and it's up, so you're there, content. Uh, put a copyright claim in and the video has now disappeared and it has been pulled. So we are putting a counter claim. All because we used the one second clip of the back of Russell Brunson coming out at the ten X conference. And that's what he said was a copyright infringement. We don't think it will stand, but it's not.

• 52:05Chris Williamson?

  What's the specific scene? Sorry?

• 52:08Speaker 00

  So at the beginning, it's a sort of an intro to it. It was just showing like different events where people are dead excited, people rush into the back of the room, people put their hands up. So it was all like clips taken from all these different types of events that we've been going to. And then there's the back of Russell Brunson walking onto stage and then puts his arms out in front of the crowd. You know, it's like a proper moment like here I am. Yes, it was a one second clip of him there and he's putting a copyright claim to get the video removed.

• 52:35Chris Williamson?

  Russell Brunson's put a copyright claim in against the back of his own head.

• 52:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. To be honest, you wouldn't have been able to tell it was Russell Brunson. But now you can, because he's put the copyright claim in.

• 52:46Chris Williamson?

  Russell Brunson knows the back of his own head very well.

• 52:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Maybe he has mirrors in his house, two mirrors. I don't know. Or spends a lot of the time at hairdressers.

• 52:56Chris Williamson?

  Perhaps.

• 52:57Speaker 00

  But now, all he's gonna make me do is, I will cut that image from the re-upload, and I will name him saying, insert back of Russell Brunson's head here, where that where that clip would have been. And then put the video out again. So it's not copyright infringement now. And now, you will be the only person named in that video. Because no one else was named. No one was named in that video before. It didn't point anything to anyone in person in particular. So for you to actually make it about you.

• 53:29Chris Williamson?

  You've poked your head above the parapet, Russell, and now ClickFunnels is in the crosshairs.

• 53:36Speaker 00

  But what's funny now, so there's been videos made about it being pulled, which I didn't know. There's a guy called Meet Kevin. I don't know if you know him on YouTube. He's got like about 150,000 subscribers. And he did a big video about it. And he did a big video about ClickFunnels and him being friends with Grant Cardone and saying it's a bad look. Like, why have you even, basically saying, I've already got 17,000 subscribers. Not many people have seen this video. But now, because you pulled it down and it's all over the internet saying video no longer available, but it actually says who's made the copyright claim.

• 54:06Chris Williamson?

  Yes.

• 54:06Speaker 00

  So now, I mean, I don't know how this works. I don't know anything about YouTube, really. But so now.

• 54:13Speaker 00

  In a lot of people's minds, the entrepreneur formula is about Russell Brunson, but weirdly, he was named in the comments so many times saying, oh, this is like the book that Russell Brunson's got on telling you how to sell to people. So maybe he's thought, you know what, this is basically the contents of my book that I sell.

• 54:30Chris Williamson?

  Mike's giving my book away for free.

• 54:32Speaker 00

  Probably, but I've never read it.

• 54:35Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 54:36Speaker 00

  I've probably gone to a lot of his students' courses and just noticed that they are saying the same thing over and over again. So, yeah, so the video is no longer available. We'll upload it, re-upload it next week, probably with a lot of references to Russell Brunson ClickFunnels throughout now.

• 54:53Chris Williamson?

  This is, are we gonna, you're gonna see like the entrepreneur formula like 2.0, director's cut edition?

• 54:59Speaker 00

  I think so. There's a few little things I wanted to change. Anyway, the mad thing about it was, we didn't do that thinking a lot of people would watch it. We did it for, like you said, for like a small group of people that followed us on LinkedIn, which is our main platform. Then it got picked up by a couple of Instagram accounts that shared it and it just blew up overnight. It went from 22,000 views to like 100,000 views in about two days. And then it carried on growing and it was like nearly 200,000 views. But yeah, the actual Netflix documentary, you know, the one that Gary spoke to us about, wasn't that. So we were gonna reveal what we've invested in, our results. That was gonna be a bigger piece of work. The entrepreneur formula was just a very specific part of, this is the

• 55:44Speaker 00

  language they use at live shows. It wasn't like our year as a entrepreneur, because there's been stuff like, I got an Amazon bestseller with a blank book, just to prove how easy it was and how that can be manipulated. So as part of the entrepreneur formula is established authority. Nothing screams authority like an Amazon bestseller. So I thought, why don't I just prove it's bullshit, write a book that just has blank page on 144 blank pages? Publish it and get it to number one in Amazon, which I managed to do in 24 hours. And then I made an episode about that. So there's loads of things that will be in the main documentary. But that weren't in the entrepreneur formula, but we'll re-upload that formula and you can watch it probably next week. Thursday, Friday or this week. Sorry, Thursday, Friday.

• 56:23Chris Williamson?

  Amazing. Well, I'll make sure that the link to that is in the show notes below if it is up. What's interesting, especially the Brunson thing, the fact that he's he's decided to get stuck in. I don't know how much I'm going to guess you'll have done a little bit of research on whether you knew who he was before that. But his particular platform, ClickFunnels, is the basis for a huge number of internet marketing businesses.

• 56:47Speaker 00

  Yeah. So many online businesses use it. I don't get it really. It's a bit stupid in my mind for him to have done that. Which makes me wonder, was it somebody else in his office that's done it?

• 56:57Chris Williamson?

  On behalf of a mate?

• 56:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, they've seen it, seen their ass, reported it and now will probably get in trouble for the amount of coverage ClickFunnels might get from this. I'm not saying like, you know, whoever watched it is going to watch it. But it was never about ClickFunnels. Now I've got a bit of a beam up on it about ClickFunnels. Do you see what I mean?

• 57:18Chris Williamson?

  Absolutely. And you still haven't crossed that threshold of

• 57:25Chris Williamson?

  opening people up to the masses or naming and shaming someone.

• 57:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, no.

• 57:29Chris Williamson?

  Russell or Russell's company or whoever the admin person was that decided to do or the favour for a friend. They've named and shamed themselves.

• 57:38Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy really, but you know, maybe they just thought a quick strike now, who knows? I might get two, three strikes next week. It's like, maybe it's an idea that, you know, I'll report him, someone else reporting someone else. I don't know.

• 57:51Chris Williamson?

  To cut the channel. Yeah.

• 57:53Speaker 00

  So all I do is I just I just chop, I just chop anybody out there, any content that I've used, chop it and just re-upload it without it. And just screenshot their names and say, this is that entrepreneur, that's that entrepreneur, that's that entrepreneur. And just do it as if it's subtitled, you know, like for on TV.

• 58:10Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 58:10Speaker 00

  Out of hearing.

• 58:13Speaker 00

  Mr. 10x walks on stage.

• 58:18Chris Williamson?

  Wow.

• 58:19Speaker 00

  That kind of stuff, yeah, so that's interesting really, but it's the first time, to be honest. The YouTube thing's been affecting me a little bit in a weird way. It's cool that a lot of people watching it, but now I'm get I'm getting hundreds of emails and I'm getting hundreds of messages and I didn't want, I don't want to sound like I'm not grateful, but I didn't want this. I didn't want to be the Anne Widdecombe or the watchdog of online entrepreneurs. That was never my intention. So as much as it's nice that people tell me who I should be investigating, why I should be investigating and telling me all about how they've been scammed. I've not got the time to take individual people's cases and say, right, I'm going to try and get you back your six grand that you spent with this entrepreneur or

• 59:03Speaker 00

  but I think people think I can or that's what I want to do. It, does that make sense? It sounds like I'm a bit ungrateful.

• 59:09Chris Williamson?

  No, no, no, I totally understand. It's like people are seeing you as like Dog the Bounty Hunter, like Mike, Mike the Entrepreneur Hunter.

• 59:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, like Citizens Advice Bureau and stuff like that. And that's, that's becoming quite difficult to manage. It's almost like, because weirdly as well, someone will ask or say something complimentary about watching it or someone that I should investigate. And if I don't respond within 20 minutes, then all of a sudden it's like, give me loads of abuse. And it's like, come on now.

• 59:38Chris Williamson?

  Well, it's obvious that people's emotions, people's emotions are quite heated here, aren't they? Because potentially if they have had their fingers burned, they're then looking for you as this potential savior. And then when you don't appear to be that savior, they're then redirecting that, those feelings that they've got towards whoever it might be, entrepreneur X, and they're redirecting them towards you.

• 1:00:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's math. Here's one. So I had an interview with someone that a lot of people said was a entrepreneur. Now, I have never been to this guy's live events or live shows. So I interviewed him and let him talk, let him talk, let him talk. Now, my own gut feeling was he's not being truthful with just his body language, the way he wouldn't answer the questions, the way politician type answers. He wouldn't answer a direct question with a direct answer.

• 1:00:28Speaker 00

  So that would suggest he was anyway, in the comments, people were saying, you should have brought this up about him. You should have brought this up. This happens at his event. It probably does, but I have not seen those things happen. And you're talking about things that have happened to you personally that I don't know. Do you see what I mean?

• 1:00:46Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:00:46Speaker 00

  Oh, you should have. If I pushed this guy too hard in the first two minutes of an interview, called him out, you're a liar, you do this, you do that, he'd have got up and walked out. There wouldn't have been any video for you to watch on YouTube. It would have been him sat down and me saying, oh, this is the guy here. I think you're a entrepreneur. I've tricked you. You've come down here. I'm going to call you out as a contractor. You do lie to people. You do rip people off. He gets up and walks out. Two minute YouTube video and everyone's going to go, oh, he didn't answer a single question. So it's like, it's weird, isn't it? So I'm kind of getting shit from the people that support what we're doing and then the people that don't like what we're doing as well.

• 1:01:18Chris Williamson?

  Hmm. Yeah, on both, on both sides.

• 1:01:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's a mad, it's a, and when really, I'm not trying to expose people. I am letting you see how successful or unsuccessful my personal investments are in these different passive income streams. Not Tai Lopez is an idiot. I'm gonna fly to his house and punch him in the face, which is what some people want me to do.

• 1:01:41Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:41Speaker 00

  No, I'll sign up to Tai Lopez's course. I will do his affiliate marketing course. Tai Lopez says I make a million pounds a year. I make five hundred pounds a year. I will say Tai Lopez's course is bullshit. That's it. I'm not going to get Tai Lopez in a headlock and.

• 1:01:57Chris Williamson?

  Well, you are, you are from Warrington, mate, so you might be quite hard.

• 1:02:01Speaker 00

  No, I don't know. Well, I'm, I'm a, the posh end of Warrington now.

• 1:02:05Chris Williamson?

  Oh, okay. Oh, you've moved, you've moved up in the world now. You'd have, you'd have to fence him or something like that, wouldn't you? You'd have to offer him out in a duel.

• 1:02:12Speaker 00

  Ian's from the, uh, the tough part of Warrington.

• 1:02:14Chris Williamson?

  Send Ian in.

• 1:02:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:15Chris Williamson?

  Send Ian in. He'll do Tai Lopez over. But yeah, I think, you know, to the people that are listening, and I'm going to guess, considering this is probably one of the first times I've seen you on another podcast or featuring on something else.

• 1:02:25Speaker 00

  Been a long time, yeah.

• 1:02:26Chris Williamson?

  Wow. So, you know, there will be a lot of people listening who have seen you through that video and I think it's really cool that you've, you've had the opportunity to kind of speak with this, um, big bird's eye perspective over exactly what it is that's happening, right? Exactly what, what's been going on and what you're trying to achieve with this stuff and. Yeah, I wonder, I wonder how much of the heightened emotions are due to the fact that people want to believe, so some people want to believe in what they're being told by these entrepreneurs and you being someone that calls it out as untrue is potentially killing the dream. So that's something that they're unhappy about.

• 1:03:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:02Chris Williamson?

  Then there's the other people on the other side of it who believe you so much or believe in the bull, that the, it is bullshit so much, that they see you as like this harbinger of truth that's gonna fly in and like pull out an AK-47 and just start like sniping people. There's those people as well. But both of those people are incredibly like enraged and energetic about what you're doing. And I think, I think that leads to, like you say, these flurries of emails that I'm sure that you'll have been getting and stuff like that. And it is, it's bizarre as well, because obviously if you'd said when you first did the entrepreneur formula, like, mate, you know what's gonna happen in six months' time?

• 1:03:45Chris Williamson?

  This is gonna have nearly quarter of a million views. You'd have been like, fucking hell, that's great. But on the other side of that, you go, I didn't realize all the side effects that were gonna come with this.

• 1:03:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's so mad. And then some people are like, you're just the same as them. That, that's one of the biggest accusations I get all the time. You're, you're doing the same, you're a entrepreneur, you're doing the same scam as them. And I ask the same question every time. What am I selling you? Well, you've got adverts on your YouTube channel. How much are you paying to watch my content? The only adverts I get on my content are the adverts by entrepreneurs because they use the same tags I tag my stuff with. Now, I am building a crowd of people that don't like that shit. You know, you get paid on people clicking the ads and buying the products. I have literally got the worst type of ads on my channel. I wanna buy my affiliate marketing course, skip ad. Affiliate

• 1:04:41Speaker 00

  marketing courses are bullshit. Isn't gonna buy that affiliate marketing course. And people can't get, yeah, you must be making loads of money on YouTube. No. Do you know what? And so quarter of a million, sort of 200,000 views on that entrepreneur formula video, I think it was about, it was on something like $600, you know, in terms of ad revenue. And they're not going to pay it me now because it's been pulled to six hundred dollars. But that video to make, we'd been to four different events, we stayed in hotels, we bought diamond ticket to sit at the front. It probably cost us six, seven thousand pounds to make that video out of my own money.

• 1:05:21Speaker 00

  I'm not making money from this. What I make my money from is my investments, whether they make money. That's it. But some people seem to be, oh, yeah, you are going to make money from this all. What course am I going to release? How to spot a entrepreneur course and I'll sell it for three nine seven.

• 1:05:37Chris Williamson?

  That would be hilarious if you did. If this was a real long game for Mike Winnet to release, uh, how to spot a entrepreneur course.

• 1:05:45Speaker 00

  Someone said, oh, yeah, I finally, it was all to get an Amazon bestseller. I said, I sold forty nine co- uh, forty nine copies of a ninety nine P book, bearing in mind you pay seventy percent royalty to Amazon. I made thirty P a book, thirty P a book on forty nine books that I've not wasted two years and five hundred thousand pounds to make. But people just don't, I don't know. I think they want there to be some sort of big reveal to be like, I told you so. This was the big thing. But it literally isn't. All I'm doing is doing what I wish was available two years ago. I wish there was a channel. I could go to when I had some money to invest that would give me a hundred percent unbiased advice or results of these different investment options. That's it.

• 1:06:30Speaker 00

  I'm just making the thing that I wish was there. Like when I did the learning business, I made e-learning I wish was available to me when I was doing e-learning. That's it. There's no hidden agenda, no big reveal, no, uh huh, I've just built a huge crowd and now you can come to see me talk for five thousand. None of it is, uh, in a, in a weird way now, I wish there was because I can make a lot of money being stood on stage telling people how to make money from making online courses. So I became a, because I became a millionaire from doing that. I've probably got more right to be on stage telling you how to become a millionaire from online courses because I've genuinely done that thing. But I don't think it's right because the reality is. You could come to my office, Chris, and I could tell you exactly what I did day by day for two years and you could do exactly what I did.

• 1:07:15Speaker 00

  But the the market is different now, conditions are different now. There's so many variables that stop that big million pound exit, five million pound exit, ten million pound exit. That you can't dress it up in a course and tell people if they follow that step by step plan, they will get those results. That's the truth. But that's why I'm not on stage telling people how to become a millionaire through online courses. Because we were, we worked hard, we did all the right things, but ultimately it comes down to a huge element of luck. That somebody else values your business on that set day that you want to sell for what you want. And that can't be replicated through any course that you do or any mentorship. That's the truth. And sure, people don't like me saying that ninety nine percent of you won't won't achieve that thing that we achieved.

• 1:07:59Speaker 00

  That's not me being a dick. And yes, you can say, well, you did it, so I can do it. Yes, that's true. But I didn't do it by going to an online course or signing up to a guru or doing a mentorship. I did it from

• 1:08:12Speaker 00

  working really, really hard, not paying myself for a few years. Um, employing people, paying staff before I pay myself, sacrificing holidays, doing all this stuff. Picking an industry where there wasn't the competition, not picking something that everyone seems to be doing, everyone seems to be getting rich. It's like finding a niche, marketing it, having a genuine USP, working really, really hard, taking massive risk. And being lucky enough to find someone that at that time was acquiring businesses in that sector so they could then sell their business a year later. Because the the company that bought my business sold the business twelve months later.

• 1:08:47Chris Williamson?

  What did, do you know what they got?

• 1:08:49Speaker 00

  Uh, this will be a sick now. So they bought us and they bought thirteen other businesses.

• 1:08:54Chris Williamson?

  Similar, similar sort of.

• 1:08:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was all like, uh, online training, online learning. They've become like one of the world's biggest learning platforms. They sold for two point eight billion dollars. So if you work out what our business made up of that, it probably would have been around about twenty, twenty, between twenty and twenty two million. But they did that nine months after they bought us.

• 1:09:17Speaker 00

  So in some regards, cool. Four lads from Warrington managed to make eight million quid and we walked away with two million quid each. The flip side is. We were the dickheads that left that much money on the table. And if we just worked hard for another ten months, we could have made double, triple that money.

• 1:09:33Chris Williamson?

  Wow.

• 1:09:35Speaker 00

  It's mad, isn't it? So sometimes I try not to. Think about that too much, but in one regard, people say, oh, wow, it's amazing what you did. But. You know. Another way we might not have sold, there's different ways to look at it. Another way we might not have sold. So we would never have known it would have been worth that much. But. Someone could see more value in it than what we put on the business. That's ultimately what you're looking for. Because someone's only going to spend eight million, ten million, twenty million on your business if they think that it's worth. Fifteen, twenty, twenty five million.

• 1:10:02Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, a business is only worth what someone's prepared to pay for it.

• 1:10:06Speaker 00

  It's it's the same as a house, isn't it? It's like people say, oh, my house is worth one million quid. Well, you put your house up for one million quid. If no one buys it for six years, it's not worth a million quid. But if you keep getting offers for seven hundred and fifty thousand. Your house is worth seven hundred and fifty thousand, so.

• 1:10:19Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, man. And so kind of in in summary of that, one of the things that I think is really interesting is what you just said there about the fact that. Everybody is presuming that you are doing this with an ulterior motive. You're doing this to um. To then flip your audience that you you're going to grow and then be like, actually, this is the how to avoid a entrepreneur. Course for three nine seven or whatever it might be.

• 1:10:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:42Chris Williamson?

  And the the fact that so many people see that as the immutable dynamic of online content production.

• 1:10:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:51Chris Williamson?

  Should be confirmation to anybody if they need it. That this is how um. Pervasive, the issue is, like, if it wasn't for the fact that people can't presume in any world, like, a lot of people say to me, this podcast's been going for a year and we're about to probably hit just about a million downloads soon. And the number of times that people are so like, what, you know, how much money are you making off it? Or when, what's the plan next? Like, when, when are you gonna start doing it? I'm like, man, if you could imagine how much time I've spent, I've never been paid so little. Even when I was a glass collector in Middlesbrough at 17 years old, per hour, I've never been paid so little for doing anything in the history of my life. Like, I'm not doing this. This podcast doesn't exist for that reason. And the same thing for you guys starting the YouTube channel. It's an interesting project.

• 1:11:36Chris Williamson?

  But the hilarious thing is, and this is what I think a lot of people should hopefully try and take on board. The things that you do without an ulterior motive and purely for the fact that, fuck, that looks interesting. I'm gonna have a crack at that. And then, you know, you guys, you guys come across well on camera. So you, and you had experience with producing things. So you had some associated skills already in the, in the wheelhouse, so to speak.

• 1:12:00Speaker 00

  No, no, like, the first time I'd ever been on camera was January. I'd never been on camera before. Yeah, we'd never picked up a camera before. We had literally learned on the job. We have not got a clue what we are doing.

• 1:12:09Chris Williamson?

  I'll tell you what, man, you come across incredibly well.

• 1:12:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, honestly, if you saw what I was like, I get angry at Ian, because Ian basically gives me a script and goes, right, you're saying this. And I say, it's easy for you, Ian. You just fucking write the words.

• 1:12:22Speaker 00

  I've got to go out there and then get called bum chin. You've got a square edge. You look like an A. It's all right. It's like, it's all right, Mike. And then, so we've got like little jokes in the office where they, they want me to act now. I was like, I'm not an actor. No, you need to react to some of these videos. And I'm like, oh, so I'm like pulling faces like, oh, wow, and all that shit. But yeah, I absolutely hate it. So the only thing we, we had experienced one was like scripting stuff and storyboarding stuff. Because we used to write content. So we know roughly that will work well. Timing will work well. That might be funny. In our opinion, you might think some of that stuff isn't funny, but that's quite funny. But yeah, but in terms of filming, editing. All that stuff, we are literally learning on the job.

• 1:13:02Chris Williamson?

  Well, you're doing, you're doing a good job of it. But yeah, so the, the fact that you guys have, you know, even no skills, you had no skills that are in there, but at least an interest in doing it. And what's hilarious is that downstream from that, you guys are actually growing at a rate that most YouTube channels would be, would be fucking dream of. You know, like the uplift that you guys have had recently is the sort of thing that full-time YouTubers that are maybe even putting loads of money into and, and, you know, really trying all the different tricks of the trade. But the point is, and this is what's interesting about the entrepreneur formula and the typical things that they're trying to put across is none of those things emerge from passion.

• 1:13:41Chris Williamson?

  All of those things are simply, you just need to do this 67 step process or whatever the fuck it might be. And bizarrely, all of the best things that I've done have been when I've worked fairly hard at something that I'm interested in. Ground my nose against a grindstone for sufficiently long and then some arights appeared on the other end.

• 1:14:02Speaker 00

  Yeah. What's interesting about that is, and this is what people, so I was having an argument online, which I don't recommend doing, by the way, is actually answering some of this bullshit. So you're doing this for the money. It's like, no, at no point have I said, I am not trying to make money. I am trying to make money on every single investment I make. That is where I'm trying, I'm trying to make money. Oh yeah, you put 17,000 new subscribers, you must be making money. I said, you don't get paid per subscriber. I could wake up tomorrow with seven billion subscribers. They don't send me a cheque for a million quid. It doesn't mean anything. You try explaining that to someone that doesn't like know what they're on about, but they'll beat you with that stick.

• 1:14:40Speaker 00

  So what you said there, I think by doing this and letting people see how well or badly I do, or some of the unethical or not very pleasant elements in these, in this industry and in these specific different passive income streams. I think there will be enough, and this is my ultimate goal. There'll be enough good guys that are genuinely nice people in those sectors that also have a problem with the flashy Lambo Forex traders and the shit-house property trainers. And they would love to come to me and say, Mike, I don't want you to talk bad of our industry as a whole,

• 1:15:22Speaker 00

  because you can make a living through property investment or affiliate marketing or even Forex trading, whatever it might be, I don't know.

• 1:15:30Speaker 00

  I would like to work with you and show you the right way of doing this ethically. And I will then invest my money with the good guys and they will make that work for me. That is ultimately what I think could happen. Does that make sense?

• 1:15:45Chris Williamson?

  It's like natural selection or like natural evolution, I suppose for people because for any online entrepreneur, potential entrepreneur, for any of those guys to come to you, like you recently had the gentleman from Birmingham who does property, had him on. And if someone wants to step into your podcast studio, what is it? Not another dickhead with a podcast, is that it?

• 1:16:11Speaker 00

  Not a dickhead with a podcast, podcast. That was a joke because basically everyone's got a podcast, aren't they?

• 1:16:15Chris Williamson?

  They do, me included. And if someone wants to step into that arena with yourself, with the platform that you guys have now and the exposure that you guys have now and the track record that you guys have now, they better fucking hope that they're bringing something legit. Because if they're not bringing something legit, they are going to get found out. And, you know, so we can put it out as a lovely way to finish off this podcast, which has been absolutely fantastic. If you are an online marketer or an entrepreneur who thinks that you can make genuinely make people money online.

• 1:16:48Speaker 00

  If you're legit and you create people and come and seek us out, work with us and we will document that journey. And if it works, it works. It is the best advert for you and your services ever. It is that, but you know what? Not one person's gone, yeah, you can come and film at our event yet, not one, which I think speaks volumes. Do you know what I mean?

• 1:17:07Chris Williamson?

  Well, there's an open.

• 1:17:10Speaker 00

  The affiliate marketing guy that's got in touch, he got in touch to say, I know you're doing stuff on affiliate marketing. I'm not a millionaire. I'm not promising to make you millionaire. However, here is my projected income. This is how much I earn and I'm happy to show you how I do it because there are some good guys in this sector. I don't sell a course. I don't sell mentorship. I just do this for myself and I'd be happy to work with you guys to show you the right way of doing things. And that's great. And he seems a good guy and hopefully it does work.

• 1:17:40Chris Williamson?

  But isn't that interesting that the only person that's come to speak to you so far to teach you how to do well within an industry is the only person that isn't trying to sell a course within that fucking industry?

• 1:17:50Speaker 00

  Exactly that, exactly that. And weirdly as well, so say the property guy that you mentioned. I've had a few other property, um,

• 1:18:00Speaker 00

  like, uh, teachers or they've got, um, podcasts and they're like leaders in their books and stuff like leaders in their sector. They've got in touch saying, I can show you the right way of doing these things because some of the things that you see in these events aren't a hundred percent legal, it's grey areas, it's playing sort of like both sides of the law. This is the way to do it and you can make money through property. If you ever want to talk about that or discuss that, we're happy to help you. And that's what I think this eventually will lead to. It's not necessarily a witch hunt, naming individuals. I think it will show people. Here's what they promise you. Here's the reality, you know, you're probably going to be closer to this than that. So don't go and spend all your money on this thing that doesn't really exist. Because we've shown you how much money it costs us to make this amount of money off.

• 1:18:45Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Well, it's an open challenge, ladies and gentlemen, everybody that's listening, people of the internet. Uh, if you have a business and if you think that you can help Mike, uh, make some of his half a million quid back that he's lumped into all manner of different, different things.

• 1:18:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, honestly, if it carries on at this rate, I will have to get, I'll have to do a pro- a proper job because not one thing so far has made money. More money. And, uh, tomorrow I've got an interview with, uh, a guy that I brought some crypto mining rigs off. So I spent thirty thousand pounds with him. And that'll be an interesting interview. That's all I'm going to say.

• 1:19:16Chris Williamson?

  I'm excited, man. I'm very excited. So for the listeners who want to find out a little bit more, they can't watch the entrepreneur formula yet, but they might be able to. And if it is uploaded by the time that this episode goes up, it will be in the show notes below, but where can they find you that hasn't been taken down yet?

• 1:19:30Speaker 00

  Uh, so I am on Instagram, which is just Mike Win It. I don't have many followers and I don't follow anyone. I'm a proper weirdo. And I'm on LinkedIn, Mike Win It, which is the same spell, like winner with a T at the end rather than an R. And then YouTube, Mike Win It.

• 1:19:45Chris Williamson?

  Fantastic. Uh, you need to go and have a little bit of a look on LinkedIn. This is a total another episode and I'm, you know, if you've got time, man, at some point over the next couple of months, I want to do a whole delve deep into the world, weird world of LinkedIn because until watching your stuff on YouTube, I didn't even know that there was this whole subculture of like weird engagement shit on LinkedIn. It's like, it's like Instagram for people that have like smoking jackets and sit on Chesterfield sofas. It's amazing.

• 1:20:14Speaker 00

  I say LinkedIn's just Facebook for professional wankers, that's the best way to describe it.

• 1:20:19Chris Williamson?

  There we go, and on that note, we'll finish. Like, share, subscribe, you know what to do. Really appreciate your time, Mike. Thank you so much, man, and good luck as everything comes forward.