SONNY WEBSTER | Bad Days, Good Days & Staying Resilient | Modern Wisdom Podcast 114

Sonny Webster is a weightlifter and online coach. Some days you're feeling it, some days not so much. All of us have good and bad periods to contend with but it's how we respond which ultimately determines the outcome. Sonny is one of the most resilient humans I know and today we get a fantastic insight into how he overcomes setbacks in life, lifting and everything else. Extra Stuff: Follow Sonny on Instagram -https://instagram.com/sonnywebstergb/ Check out Sonny's Academy - http://sonnywebsteracademy.com Check out everything I recommend from books to products and help support the podcast at no extra cost to you by shopping through this link - https://www.amazon.co.uk/shop/modernwisdom - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: [email protected]

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sonny Webster?

  So obviously my initial ban was was four years. I then received a further three year ban for coaching athletes that compete. So that totaled my ban to seven years. Weightlifting's been the biggest part of my life ever since I was 11 years old. And to have that taken away from you is very difficult. I suppose it's, I can only liken it to, if there's anyone listening, probably losing a loved one or something very similar, because it made up so much of my life and still does. As heartbreaking as that was, and it was a very low point in my life after that, I had to draw a line in the sand if I was ever going to be able to move on with my life. I learnt that if you really got a burning

• 0:41Sonny Webster?

  desire to achieve, and I never did what I do now to prove anything to anyone else. I've got my own goals and my own drive. And you never want to lose sight of the fact that it is your own journey, and they are your obstacles.

• 1:00Chris Williamson?

  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. I managed to get him all the way from the other side of the planet. It's Sonny Webster. How are you, mate?

• 1:07Sonny Webster?

  Hey, Chris. How you doing, brother?

• 1:08Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, good to see you, man. How's how's life in the future? Because you're in the future right now.

• 1:13Sonny Webster?

  I'm not being funny, mate. This is a long overdue chat. I can't, when was the last time I was on the podcast?

• 1:19Chris Williamson?

  Uh, over a year ago now. So it was that same weekend that we did, was it the same weekend we did Elro?

• 1:26Sonny Webster?

  Yeah.

• 1:30Sonny Webster?

  Lost, yeah.

• 1:31Chris Williamson?

  Which was also-

• 1:31Sonny Webster?

  Lost some years off my life that weekend.

• 1:33Chris Williamson?

  Coincidentally, the the last time that I drank in the UK. So it's been like-

• 1:38Sonny Webster?

  Really?

• 1:39Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, man, that was that was the last time that I drank in the UK. So it'll be like, what, 14 months or something now since then. I'm not saying that going out with you, that cursed drinking, it was a-

• 1:51Sonny Webster?

  I think I've done that to a few people, though. So you wouldn't be the first.

• 1:55Chris Williamson?

  You are, like, before we even start talking about anything, can we discuss about your ability to drink? Because I've never met anyone who is able to go out, like, on the on the lash, the way you are, and then get up the next morning and just go and do a teach a seminar in Scotland or something. You got up at like, 10am or 11am. I didn't, I didn't surface until like, the middle of the afternoon. By the time that I'd got out of bed, you'd done a seminar in Glasgow or something.

• 2:24Sonny Webster?

  Do you know what, I think it's a thing with weightlifters is is part of like the growing up is you have to be able to drink. You will never become a great weightlifter if you can't drink. I remember right back from a young age, I must have been fourteen years old, going on weightlifting training camps. And the more senior athletes would say to you, right on a Friday night after training, you're coming to the pub with us and you're having a drink. And you don't really have a choice. You do as you're told because they're much bigger, much stronger than you. And you wanna fit in and it becomes part of, I guess, the nature of, you know, being a weightlifter, especially the way that we go about, you know, competition.

• 3:03Sonny Webster?

  You would train really hard for like six weeks, seven weeks, maybe up to six months on end for a competition. And you won't drink at all. So then you blow out. So your ability at binge drinking becomes extremely good.

• 3:17Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, it's definitely something that you're capable of. I suppose as well, like, weightlifters, there's a lot of muscle mass in there. They can probably metabolize their alcohol pretty quick. And they're competitive. You're literally bred to be competitive. So competitive drinking, I can imagine is pretty bad. But what else is going on, man? Because like, so the last time that the listeners will have seen you, you were in the UK. You were, um, yeah, I don't think you'd even started, uh, like the Sunny Webster Academy by then. So like, catch us up over the last year. What's happening?

• 3:50Sonny Webster?

  Yeah. Well, I guess before I saw you end of last year, I was just sort of planning uh, my tour to Australia. I mean, I was definitely going through a period of the time after we last chatted of not feeling completely settled in the UK. Um, it took me a long time to really realise that because I was continually going on these trips to Doha, going on these trips to Europe to do seminars. And as much as I was enjoying travelling, every time I came back, the next seminar seemed to act almost as an escape away from um, being in the UK. And it wasn't until I'd actually left the UK that I began to realise that. Um.

• 4:34Sonny Webster?

  I guess, I don't know if it was more for me wanting to, you know, spread my wings and experience a new new country as a kind of a sign there for me, but obviously I went away then on the big Australia tour and it was life changing, you know, I I fell in love with the place, fell in love with a beautiful lady. And it was only fitting then that I moved away there then in January. So towards the end of my tour, when I met um my new girlfriend, Lyndle. We uh decided to go to um Bali for Christmas together and we had the most amazing time. Christmas and New Year and then it was like she lived in Sydney, I live in England.

• 5:19Sonny Webster?

  If we're gonna have a go at making this work, one of us has to budge and she sure as hell wasn't coming to rainy England. It was quite an easy decision which uh which end of the world we was gonna head up in, but. I mean, I'd obviously just bought my place in Bristol, uh which I've still got, but it's amazing when you really wanna be somewhere else that bad, how quickly you can make the change. And I think like so many people are scared and fearful of change or something new. But I'm kidding you not, I lived in Bristol for seven years and I managed to pack up my whole life in seven days. And uh moved to the other side of the world.

• 5:59Chris Williamson?

  I mean, you are quite well uh well experienced at packing things up. I've seen you again in Bristol, I've seen you pack pack up after a night out with me to go and do like, I can't remember where you were going, maybe Marbella, Ibiza or something like that. Yeah, you you move pretty quick. It was all that you had in your suitcase was like two pairs of lifters, a pair of off-white sliders and um some shorts and that was it? And you're like, I'll just get the rest, I'll get the rest when I'm there. Um but no, yeah, you you're right. One thing that people might not know is you've actually got a Aussie passport, right? Or you've got Aussie citizenship or something.

• 6:37Sonny Webster?

  I've got one better, I've got a New Zealand one.

• 6:39Chris Williamson?

  New Zealand passport, is that it?

• 6:41Sonny Webster?

  Yeah, a New Zealand one, which kind of works the same here. It's kind of like having a, you know, an Irish passport, I guess. Um so I can stay here in Australia on that visa, but do you know what's mental? Because I'm still travelling so much, I could come and go on my travel visa and no one even know.

• 6:59Chris Williamson?

  Really?

• 7:01Chris Williamson?

  All of the, all of the

• 7:02Sonny Webster?

  Still moving every month.

• 7:03Chris Williamson?

  All the excuses that people have where they might think, oh, I don't really understand how the visas work, or I don't have citizenship in the same way that Sonny does, or whatever. If there's a will, there's sort of a way a lot of the time.

• 7:16Sonny Webster?

  Yeah, I know. I've got, do you know what? I know so many people living here in Sydney from back in, back in the UK that have either come here and been sponsored, getting jobs, or have done the farming. It's not easy, but like anything, if you really want to make it happen, you have to, you put the work in.

• 7:33Chris Williamson?

  What's James and Darren doing? Are they doing the farming? I can imagine, I can see those two on a farm.

• 7:39Sonny Webster?

  No, so Darren, Darren actually had a de facto from a previous relationship that he was here. He was with someone for seven years from Australia. So he was here a long time ago.

• 7:49Chris Williamson?

  Alright, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 7:49Sonny Webster?

  With the next partner of his. And then James, obviously, his business is based here, so he has a business visa, so he can stay here on, on those, those terms.

• 7:59Chris Williamson?

  Fucking red tape, avoiding bastards. They're just sneaking around, leaving the UK, leaving the rain behind and going out somewhere cool.

• 8:08Sonny Webster?

  Those boys, yeah, they run on a different time clock to me. Those boys are in bed at like nine and they're in the cafe at six, which, you know, I'm like more of up at seven and work till like midnight. But it does, as soon as you wake up in the morning, then you feel like you're on the back foot and you've got FOMO already and it's only like seven o'clock because they're already done like their work and email, especially as you work in the same field.

• 8:33Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, James is 20 Instagram stories deep and he's already done his, his email for the week and all that bullshit. And then there's you still trying to drag, drag your coffee out.

• 8:42Sonny Webster?

  Yeah, you're like that.

• 8:43Chris Williamson?

  Pinning your eyes open.

• 8:44Sonny Webster?

  There you go.

• 8:45Chris Williamson?

  So what's been going on recently? Other than, obviously, you've got yourself out to Oz, you've managed to find a girlfriend, you now moved in with Lyndall as well, right?

• 8:54Sonny Webster?

  Yeah, moved in with Lyndall. It was her birthday this weekend, so.

• 8:57Chris Williamson?

  Happy birthday, Lyndall.

• 8:59Sonny Webster?

  Yeah, she's uh, she's watching a program in the, in the, in the bedroom. But yeah, for me, I think initially it took me a while to get settled, find my routine here. Um, obviously I just launched the Sunny Webster Academy, um, which has been amazing. It's been great to be able to help more people. That was the key thing with the academy was that whenever I'm doing these seminars, I'd have to travel halfway around the world and I'll be able to impact thirty people's lives on that given day. And yes, I know they'll come away with a P B L and they'll have a great experience, but I wanted to be able to offer that to a wider audience and something that meant that

• 9:40Sonny Webster?

  I didn't have to travel so much because it was taking so much away from, as much as I love travelling, away from my time and my endeavours and enjoyment in my own training, you know, because it's massively affected every time you travel away. Every time you spend time in the air, you fall out your sink in your routine. And before you know it, I'm not improving and I still love my lifting, so.

• 10:02Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 10:02Sonny Webster?

  Um, I had to, with the academy, find a way of accessing more people without having to move so much. And um, I've learnt so much in a year. I can't believe that, you know, it was only a year ago, pretty much to this day, that I launched the Sunny Webster Academy properly. And already we've had thousands of customers and we've got, you know, a lot of customers online now that are on a subscription that I'm able to work with, which has been, you know, it's been great. And I've been learning so much more about what people want and how to work with people over the internet. And it kind of is, is the future now, really.

• 10:39Chris Williamson?

  Hmm, it's interesting that it's something both like kind of selfish for your own gains, but selfless as well because it allows you to scale. You are right, like we were, uh, we were talking about this with regards to my business, which is Club Promo, right? Like, if I have to be the person that stood on the door, there's only ever one of me. I can't scale the business beyond maybe. At best, like one night per week, like every night of the week. And it's like, fucking hell, that's so much graft. But you're totally right. We've got our first online course, which is in beta testing at the moment, which is going super well. And I've been able to distill down the same way you have, a lot of things that I've spoken to people about face to face. And then you've condensed it down into a format that is convenient for people and they can deal with

• 11:20Chris Williamson?

  it that way. And, you know, like, like you say, it's nice that you've got this opportunity to reach, to reach a wider audience whilst not sacrificing the results that people are getting on the back end. Um, so

• 11:34Sonny Webster?

  Yeah, and, and, and just, and yourself and your own, your own health. But it's, it's so much harder than people think it is. Like, I can't stress that enough. Like, you think being online coach is easy. It's no problem. You get a membership site and off you go. It's, it's really not that easy.

• 11:53Chris Williamson?

  What's the challenges? What are the challenges that you've found particularly?

• 11:57Sonny Webster?

  I think maintaining a high level of service for the people that you work with, keeping up to date with people in different time zones. You know, that's been a massive thing for me. Like, it's easy if everyone wakes up at seven and everyone goes to bed at, at 10. And you know, if you schedule your live at nine o'clock to interact with everyone as a whole, everyone's going to be up. Right now, we've got people from all different parts of the world on the academy. It's very difficult, difficult to sync with them. Also, different standards of people and people require different levels of coaching. And when you offer an online platform, you kind of speak one language, okay, to your people, initially anyway, because you have the

• 12:40Sonny Webster?

  program. But then it's realized like, well, you don't like getting sworn to when, when I'm teaching you how to lift. But some people like that encouragement. And it's kind of tailoring your service to the masses of people. And you need to have different levels. And it's taken me ages and months and months and months of tailoring and refining the programs and products that we've got online to appeal to everyone. And you're never going to keep everyone happy. But that's definitely one of the biggest challenges I've found. And then retaining.

• 13:10Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I suppose that

• 13:13Chris Williamson?

  The issue there is you need to have a, you need to have a program which is sufficiently similar that it doesn't require you to write every person's program absolutely individually every single day, plus do a 20 minute phone call with them because you couldn't reach enough people. But then you also need to balance that with a level of personalization, which ensures that the, the language that you're using, the sort of communication, like you've said there, something I totally didn't even think about time zones and ensuring that people have got access at the right times and stuff like that. So one thing that you've touched on there is your own lifting, your own training at the moment. Obviously, the last time that we spoke,

• 13:54Chris Williamson?

  I think you would have probably still classed yourself primarily as an athlete. What, what do you see yourself as now? Do you see yourself as athlete coach or as a coach? Has there been a transition there?

• 14:06Sonny Webster?

  Yeah, I definitely still love, you know, the competitive side of training myself. So, I mean, I'm still in the gym five, six days a week focusing on my own training, but it's very different now. I aim for doing maybe one or two exercises a day and doing it really well and doing my mixture of CrossFit and weightlifting. And then, yeah, I'd say I'm definitely, I've been coaching now for seven years. So I've been in that coach athlete role for a while now, but I'm definitely putting more of the emphasis, I'd say 60, 40 between coaching at the moment than I am on, on my athletic side of things.

• 14:45Chris Williamson?

  How have you found relinquishing that thread attached to the balloon? Because obviously, no matter how much you love coaching, there is a particular type of itch that needs to be scratched by competition and you're, right now, you're unable to do that.

• 15:03Sonny Webster?

  Yeah, well, I mean, that was, you know, a heartbreaking stage in in my life. And as you would have listened to to James's podcast, it was the first time that I'd actually last year felt in the right place to um discuss my doping ban and, you know, how it's affected me moving forward, you know, weightlifting's been biggest part of my life ever since I was eleven years old and to have that taken away from you. Um, it's very difficult. I suppose it's, I can only liken it to, if there's anyone listening, probably losing, losing a loved one or something very similar because it made up so much of my life and still does. And yes, it is like an itch now for me when,

• 15:47Sonny Webster?

  you know, I still have that burning desire to um want to compete and to be competitive. And it's something, you know, that I can't do now.

• 15:56Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, uh, you know, having been around you for quite a while and having been mates with you for quite a while, it's one thing that I do think is impressive is your resilience over the last sort of eighteen months. There's been a number of setbacks, like the the first, your first ban and then like a subsequent kind of additional uh like kicking the balls after that as well. Um, and

• 16:21Sonny Webster?

  Yeah.

• 16:21Chris Williamson?

  and that appears to be continuing, not just with competition, but with like coaching as well?

• 16:28Sonny Webster?

  Yeah, I mean, so obviously my initial ban was was four years. Um, I then received the further um three year ban for um coaching athletes that compete was what they gave me the second ban for. Um, so that totaled my ban to seven years. Um, and even so now, I mean, right back to when I first came to Australia, um Australian Weightlifting Federation, New Zealand Weightlifting Federation were putting in the news and stuff like that to say if anyone attends Sunday's weightlifting seminars who's a competitive athlete, then um you're impeding uh a doping violation and therefore you could get banned as well.

• 17:11Sonny Webster?

  And it's been the first time that they've ever tried to impact these sort of levels of rules on anyone and, you know, for Myself, serving currently a seven year ban, one of the longest bans in weightlifting, especially for an out of hours, out of competition test, in which, you know, I pursued my case and gave it a bloody good go at proving that it had come from contamination and wasn't um ingested knowingly. Um, and I did everything I possibly could to attempt to prove that. And still to come away with that level of severity of ban was, you know, it was heartbreaking. But, you know, it's like I said

• 17:52Sonny Webster?

  back on James's podcast, um, as heartbreaking as that was, and it was a very low point in my life after that. I had to draw a line in the sand if I was ever going to be able to move on with my life and go, yeah, this is the most terrible thing that could ever happen to you. And at this point, I'd only had the four years. But I need to continue on with my life. I need to um continue to spread my passion and love for the sport. Um, and, you know, who's to say that I would never have come back and competed again? But after having spoken out about that last time was when I received the second three years. So I'm not gonna do.

• 18:32Chris Williamson?

  Do you think that you would have got that, or do you think that speaking out and perhaps publicising what happened on James's podcast led to that additional three years at least hastening its arrival or like improving the likelihood of it happening?

• 18:47Sonny Webster?

  A hundred percent. You know, there was nothing that was brought up about it prior to that. But I think, you know, having spoken out about the topic in such detail um with James, it definitely was put in front of, you know, the people probably within um Ucad. And, you know, I definitely think it stimulated that three year ban going, going into action, you know, and I spoke quite brutally about, you know, the circumstances that there are now in the way that Ucad deal with cases such as Tyson Fury's, where he threatened to sue them. He was caught with an anabolic steroid. He threatened to sue them. He's got more money than Ucad and they let him off with it.

• 19:29Sonny Webster?

  And it does become a point of if you've got enough money or you're protected by the right people. You don't reap the same um same, I guess, judgment.

• 19:40Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, you don't.

• 19:44Sonny Webster?

  Yeah, without going into that with too much detail. And yeah, I do believe it had something to do with the three years it continued. That was just a further kicking the nuts. I mean, I had. Thought about, like I said, potentially coming back to competing because, you know, I'm I'm aware that. Um I motivate and inspire a lot of people and I want to continue to do that. And I think through competition. That was, you know, a massive motivation for people um to see how, you know, I perform and what I do on the back end. That was definitely something that was different between what I did as a weightlifter compared to a lot of other weightlifters that I did share. Um my training, my bad days, my good days.

• 20:27Sonny Webster?

  And tried to always give that to people as a lesson to learn from, you know, what I do when I have a shit training session. And that's the thing that's no different whether you're an elite level athlete or you're just starting your journey in fitness. Is you both have bad days, you'll continue to have those bad days. You'll have days where you miss lifts, you'll have days where you don't feel like training. It's still the same either either end of the scale that you're at. Um and I think there's a lot to learn from experienced athletes in the way they deal that. So it makes that. Learning curve for new people much smoother.

• 21:03Chris Williamson?

  Hmm, yeah. Again, coming back to the resilience thing, I I have to say, man, like. I I'm even from the the first time that we met each other, which was Body Power last year. I've always been quite impressed with your resilience and that's resilience, like it's kind of a blanket coverage of resilience, right? So it's your resilience to hangovers, your resilience to setbacks. Setbacks and other bits and pieces professionally, personally, in terms of your sporting career, stuff like that. Um because one of the first conversations that we ever had, when when we were at Body Power, you'd had. Quite some vitriol comments by some other people in the uh weightlifting community. I don't I I don't know whether they were like um. Officials or more like athletes or whatever, but there were some people that were unhappy.

• 21:48Sonny Webster?

  They were they were they were friends.

• 21:50Chris Williamson?

  Well, they weren't.

• 21:51Sonny Webster?

  Even worse.

• 21:52Chris Williamson?

  Not after that. Um but yeah, like. We had these sorts of comments with people and what you said this thing to me and it really stuck with me and it still does now, which was that after you'd had your ban, people weren't prepared with just destroying your sporting career. They wanted to be able to destroy your ability to make money or to have a livelihood as well. And that really fucking hit home to me. And I was like, Jesus, like this, this guy like, you know, is now trying to splinter off into whatever small sliver of weightlifting he can still involve himself in, you know, with like a high quality of coaching that people obviously resonate with, with a style of social media that is obviously engaging and entertains people.

• 22:37Chris Williamson?

  And it's like, there's people from within the industry, within the sport, and then also bureaucratically at the top of the sport, that are kind of really trying to play whack a mole with all of the different routes that you've got to go out.

• 22:51Sonny Webster?

  Yeah, it was, I mean, it was difficult. And when it comes to things like that, Chris, like I said, and I learned my lesson when I went through that period after my ban, that, you know, there will always be obstacles. And I overcame so many obstacles throughout my career as a lifter, that I learnt that if you really got a burning desire to achieve, and I never did what I do now to prove anything to anyone else. I've got my own goals and my own drive. And you never want to lose sight of the fact that it is your own journey and they are your obstacles. And whenever there was another one put in front of me, I found another way around it. And

• 23:31Sonny Webster?

  you do have to have that certain element of resilience because, you know, you could take four different routes and get told no every single time. And yes, it's fucking heartbreaking. It hurts every single time. But the quicker and the better you get at taking the emotional side out of how that makes you feel and going, but I'm angry, I'm frustrated at what's been said, I'm annoyed at the result of that and going, right, what have I learnt from that? How can I change? What's the next route? And the quicker that happens, the better your resilience gets. And it happens in everyday stuff. You get a parking ticket.

• 24:12Sonny Webster?

  You go and see that the car and go fuck and you get angry and you can let that ruin your whole day. You can have your whole day stewing on the fact that you've got to pay sixty pounds. And you won't pay it because you're so frustrated and you'll let it go two weeks and then all of a sudden that sixty pound fines now a hundred and twenty pound fine. We've all done it and it's through bitter frustration that stops us moving forward and ultimately ends up in us in a worse place than where we were to begin with. You know, at that point where you've got a parking ticket, if you put your two pound on the ticket, okay, it would have taken you. You would add to walk the fifty metres down the road to get the ticket to come back. You would have potentially avoided that sixty pound fine. That is your lesson that you learnt.

• 24:57Sonny Webster?

  So by paying ringing up, paying that parking ticket straight away and moving on with your day, lesson learned. Be able to achieve so much more the rest of that day. And that is a simple, I guess, analogy of the way that I would approach um being resilient resilient to any sort of negativity that I've had to to deal with. It's it's it's as simple as that.

• 25:20Chris Williamson?

  There's a a really good quote from Sam Harris where he talks about um try and remain angry for more than five seconds without thinking about the fact that you're angry. And it's like the the actual fleeting sensation of emotions, they're so short-lived. But the reason that we hold on to them, and this is where a lot of the complications come from, is that it's very rarely about the actual emotion. It's about all of our thoughts and our responses to whatever that particular emotion is. So for you, forget the situation, forget the fact that you got the parking ticket. It's no longer about the parking ticket, it's about how you ruminate over the fact that you could have just walked that fifty metres. Or you should have just done this, or you should have done that. And there's.

• 26:02Sonny Webster?

  It's internal.

• 26:03Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, it is, and you perpetuate it, which and then you become the after that, you get the second order and third order effects, which are where you become angry at yourself for perpetuating the thing that you didn't do in the first place. And it's so, it's so dangerous.

• 26:18Sonny Webster?

  It's a vicious cycle.

• 26:18Chris Williamson?

  It really is. There's there's a man's search for meaning. By Viktor Frankl, anyone who's listening and needs an easy read, well, it's not easy read. It's about the concentration camps in Nazi Germany, but it is, it is an interesting read. And this guy was a psychologist, psychotherapist, who was a Jew, was captured, taken to the concentration camps. And his synopsis to the entire book is that the final thing that people can take from you, which they can never take from you, the thing which can never be taken from you, is your ability to choose your response to any given situation. And no one can ever, ever take that away from you. And you think of every situation that this guy's been in, he's been stripped from

• 27:01Chris Williamson?

  his family, he's watched his wife and child die in front of him. He's had all of these horrific experiences. But the final thing that concentration camp guards couldn't take away from him was his ability to respond how he chose to any given situation.

• 27:20Sonny Webster?

  But, but that's it, Chris. And it frustrates other people further in the way that you respond. I mean, it's still, you know, for me in a, in a, on a daily basis, the way that I, I deal with making a stupid mistake. I do stupid stuff all the time. I lose my keys, I lose tickets into car parks. And I, I deal with it. And I, and I pay the fee on final ever and I move on. And it frustrates Lindell. She's like, how can you, you know, continually do those stupid things and it not frustrate you? And it's the same with, how can you get around, you know, not being able to do a seminar, but yet you'll still go on and do the next one? What do we do next? It frustrates

• 28:04Sonny Webster?

  people in the way that you respond to your own, your own issues. And it's not necessarily, I think, a, a bad thing. I think it's just people deal with negativity, positivity, any sort of emotion very differently. And it's, it's hard when, you know, two people don't respond to the, in the same way.

• 28:26Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, you're right. I think this probably strikes at the heart of one of the, one of the reasons why some of the weightlifters might be.

• 28:36Chris Williamson?

  Trying to make you out to be more of a bad guy than you are because they're projecting their own inadequacies. The fact that you have had all of these barriers put in front of you and yet you've still got a flourishing online business, you're still selling out seminars. It's like that, I think it's, is it that Chris Brown song where the intro to it goes, I don't see how you can hate from outside of the club, you can't even get in. It's like, if you, if you sell five spots to a weightlifting seminar, how can you hate on the person that's selling out 30, even with all of these barriers in place? It's like, don't, but don't, don't try and make your own performance better by bringing, bringing somebody else's down. It's like get on their level.

• 29:15Sonny Webster?

  But this happens so much in life, in, in the fitness industry, instead of people working together and growing together and helping each other, cross pollination, it doesn't, people don't like seeing other people do well. And one thing that I've always done is never put fuel on the fire. You know, I get negative stuff I have to deal with every single day. And the people that probably have to deal with it the most is the people closest to me, the people that are around me when I'm at my most vulnerable, the people that will see me, like Linda will see me at night when I'm down depressed about something, you know, they're the people

• 29:57Sonny Webster?

  that ultimately are the ones that see you, brunt the sort of, I guess, when you're angry or when you're depressed, because I will never project negativity across my social media, which is what people want you to do. But at the end of the day, I do not use my social media platforms to be negative, to talk about negativity. It is a place to promote positivity and inspire and motivate people. So you tend, you tend to upset a lot of people because they don't get that keyboard war, that reaction that they're always looking for.

• 30:32Chris Williamson?

  Hmm. Yeah, you're right. There's a Thinking about a podcast I did with George McGill, which was Mental Models 101. And in that, he talks about what he thinks is the the single greatest or the single most valuable characteristic of the 21st century, and he calls it high agency. And the perfect way to think about who your high agency friends are is to do this thought experiment. So imagine that you're trapped in jail and you've got seven days to get out and you have to ring a friend. Like, who is the friend that you're going to ring? Like, that friend is the person who's got high agency. And people who have that agency, you see them, you see them on the internet. We all know who they are, right? Like, James has got high agency, Darren's got high agency.

• 31:14Chris Williamson?

  You've got guys like Ben and Lucy from My Coach School, like, these people who don't give a fuck, like, don't conform to whatever's expected of them, decide that they're just going to go down their own way. Like, Cam, Cam's got high agency as well, the guy that does your stuff on the back end. Like, he just, like, bollocks to it. I'm just gonna jump on a flight, I'll go Bali, I'll go here, I'll do some content, I'll do this. And, yeah, that that high agency approach is exactly why it allows people to make progress that others think is almost unbelievable, whether it be professionally, personally, emotionally, you know, in terms of their sport or whatever it might be. Yeah, that, that, I love that, that thought experiment. Who'd you reckon you'd call if you needed to get, get yourself out of jail? Who would you ring?

• 31:59Sonny Webster?

  Jeff.

• 32:00Chris Williamson?

  Oh, Jeff, of course you would, yeah.

• 32:04Sonny Webster?

  Jeff, like, I call Jeff, like, with problems all the time because he is one of the smartest blokes I know, he's one of the best, he is an extremely resilient human and he is, he never takes no as an answer. And that's why I know whenever there's a problem that I can't solve, I put it in front of him and he will, it's a challenge for him. It's a challenge for him to get that computer to say yes. And he's extremely good at it. And that is, you know, been, as you know, a huge inspiration and motivation for me because that is the way he attacks everything. And I guarantee that has a massive contribution to why he's so successful in, not only in

• 32:48Sonny Webster?

  life, but in, you know, his business and the career he's got as well.

• 32:51Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, high agency man. Jeff, Jeff's a high agency guy, although some of his shirts are like that's super high agency. Jeff, if you're listening, man, I'm watching you on Instagram and some of those shirts are outrageous.

• 33:06Sonny Webster?

  Well, he's just recently sent me, I think yesterday, sent me some cloth fabrics from Dolce and Gabbana, which are shades of purple to match a specific paint grade that Lamborghini are doing on their new Lamborghini.

• 33:22Chris Williamson?

  Of course, I mean, why not? Why not, Jeff? Just do it.

• 33:26Sonny Webster?

  That's how he rolls.

• 33:27Chris Williamson?

  That is how he rolls.

• 33:30Chris Williamson?

  Unbelievable.

• 33:31Sonny Webster?

  He's not worried about what anyone's thinking.

• 33:33Chris Williamson?

  Absolutely not. He just wants, he just wants a new see-through Louis Vuitton handbag that's like perspex or whatever, that crazy thing that we saw you with last time.

• 33:42Sonny Webster?

  I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie, yeah, I've still got that in the box.

• 33:45Chris Williamson?

  Have you?

• 33:45Sonny Webster?

  Not been opened.

• 33:47Chris Williamson?

  Honestly. So, yeah, I, I, I totally get it, man. And I think as well, what you're talking about, this kind of unfaltering positivity. You do show your vulnerability online, like we all do, right? But I, I think you're right, it really, really grinds on people when they don't get the response that they wanted. And that response could be something direct from you, or the failing of your career, or the, even just the slowing of your career, right? Like, when I met you, I think that weekend at Body Power was when you crossed 100k on Insta. And what are you at now? Like 250 or something?

• 34:22Sonny Webster?

  220.

• 34:23Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Like, so that, you know, that's more than doubled in the space of just over a year, which is, you know.

• 34:27Sonny Webster?

  But I mean, even, even then, Chris, like, that has slowed, that has slowed, you know, and everyone's noticed it at the moment. And the way that Instagram algorithms are working, it's not how it was. I was at a period where I was making maybe 2,000 followers a week. So now it's more like 250 followers a week. You know, and it's a constant battle, but it does play with your with your psychology a little bit because you put so much effort and time into content. Um, and if it doesn't get the right reaction or likes or things that your engagement that you're you're looking for, it has an effect on you.

• 35:08Sonny Webster?

  Um, and it's mad, you know how Instagram have been playing around with the likes, I think to combat really people's um worry about what's liked so much and just post more about what you're passionate about and want to express.

• 35:24Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 35:24Sonny Webster?

  But um, yeah, I mean, it's one thing I've noticed from all the guys that you know, I'm inspired by in the industry in a on a business level is consistency. And if something doesn't work the first time, don't worry, don't give up. Keep on going it, keep on doing it, be original and keep doing your own thing. After we get off the call today, I'm gonna do my next School of Sunny thing to post up, it's probably some of the worst engaged content that I've put online in terms of how many likes and views it gets. But yet it's probably the most valuable in terms of what I offer people in the videos. But it's five minutes long. People don't want to sit there for that long.

• 36:06Chris Williamson?

  Isn't it interesting?

• 36:07Sonny Webster?

  Learn, you have to put in time.

• 36:08Chris Williamson?

  You have to.

• 36:08Sonny Webster?

  Hmm.

• 36:09Chris Williamson?

  Isn't it interesting that we use, and this is, everyone knows this, right? Everyone's seen this before, they've they've taken ages crafting some beautiful photo and a caption that's really meaningful to them about some moment in their life and they've put it on social media or if you're a a content creator, maybe you've spent absolutely ages crafting a really difficult video. So I've got Joe Delaney, Shred Bundy, um, recently randomly did a video that was like um, how to do a food shop from Aldi for three pounds a day. And this video banged so hard, like one million views in the space of a couple of weeks. And this guy's worked on his YouTube channel for probably about ten years. And he's got to a hundred K subs, right?

• 36:54Chris Williamson?

  Then in the space of another month, he's done fifty K. And you just think like, what is it about this? And it is this total random, almost random lottery chance of winners and losers. And you're right, I do wonder, moving forward for social media, if they were to get rid of the likes, whether that would signal people to post content which would be more valuable. Because we've all seen it, right? You take ages doing this thing, put this really beautiful photo up and you go, oh, that didn't go so well. Then you post like a random funny thing. If you've fallen over in a pool, or have you like looking semi-lean with a bit of a tan.

• 37:29Sonny Webster?

  And bang.

• 37:29Chris Williamson?

  It goes crazy. Like, there was that one, there was that one that you'd done that was like, I think it's just a close feet, a clean grip snatch on a red plate back in Bristol.

• 37:40Sonny Webster?

  On a plate, yeah.

• 37:41Chris Williamson?

  And it did like quarter of a million views. And then there's some things where you've nearly taken your own head off. And it's like, nothing.

• 37:49Sonny Webster?

  It's a combination of lighting, timing, you know, the everything that, you know, people, people are looking for in a video. But it's like TikTok. I don't know if you've had to play around with it yet.

• 37:59Chris Williamson?

  No, not yet.

• 38:00Sonny Webster?

  It's the, it's the new sort of, I guess, Instagram. It used to be Musically.

• 38:05Chris Williamson?

  Oh, yeah, okay, I know, I know what that is, yeah.

• 38:07Sonny Webster?

  Shouting about it because it's kind of like the next platform. And so I'm playing around on it at the moment. Just more than anything to be ahead of the curve, see what people like, what people don't like. But it's a very young audience on there. And Lindell's done a video on there recently, and she got 3.6 million views on it. And all it is, is me and her stood, looking fat, like holiday bloke, and then turning around, and then like I'm tensing and she's like doing a model pose. 3.6 million views. She's now got like 25,000 or 30,000 followers on TikTok overnight, pretty much.

• 38:51Chris Williamson?

  It's so bizarre, man. It is. I would let us say, so I get this as well, right? Like, some of the, some of the times when I'm posting up content, and it's different for me because this podcast's a passion project, although, you know, increasingly, it's...

• 39:06Sonny Webster?

  But it's growing. I looked on the channel today and it's already like on YouTube at 10,000 subscribers. It had probably one, one when I was on it last night.

• 39:16Chris Williamson?

  I think, I think when you came on, we were probably on about two and a half. And yeah, like it is, we crossed a million downloads the other week. We've just hit 10K subs. We're about to hit a million views on YouTube. So yeah, but one of the problems is, and everyone will know this, right? With regards to their life generally, and social media is like a very concentrated form of what we broadcast out in our lives. In any case, it's a reflection of real life. Anyway, people sometimes do things that they know will receive social reinforcement and will make them feel good because other people will make it'll be

• 39:55Chris Williamson?

  on a surface level, quite viscerally satisfying, but might not actually be the most meaningful or the most value adding. And that's what you're talking about with the sunny, what's it called? Sunny school.

• 40:07Sonny Webster?

  The school of sunny.

• 40:08Chris Williamson?

  School of sunny.

• 40:08Sonny Webster?

  But that's the thing that I know I could post, repost a video from a year ago of me nearly chopping my head off doing it there, which will get those views that will make me sleep happy tonight. However, I'm going to invest, that's going to make me no money, but I'm going to invest an hour instead of doing my school to sunny, which is going to provide a lot of quality education and may result in two or three people signing up to the academy, which is going to make you money. You know, and for a lot of time, for a long time, and it's something that I've definitely started to realise, I'm going to swap. Yeah. Can you still hear me?

• 40:42Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, feel good.

• 40:44Sonny Webster?

  Yeah, it's definitely something that I've realised over time that in order to grow, you have to start investing in, you know, people to help you, other staff members, invest in, you know, new technology, new software, because there's only so far you can go nowadays on your own back and you've only got so much time to do it. And so it's definitely something that over time I've started thinking about doing.

• 41:09Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, that we do this business principle series, which we've, we've started doing recently. And in that, one of the ones that we haven't got around to, but we'll probably take a full episode on is outsourcing areas that you are weak in. So I remember one of the first big episodes I did was with Mike Caju, guy that owns Brute Strength, two times. CrossFit affiliate cup games champion to like in the team in like two thousand and ten, two thousand and eleven. And I remember asking him about like, how did you grow? Because his missus owns Wag, working against gravity. A D and then he owns like brute strength. It's like fucking hell. Like, how do you have two? People that are both CEOs at such like high level companies in the same industry. And he said that both of them just do the same thing, which is they

• 41:55Chris Williamson?

  know exactly where their strengths and their weaknesses lie, and they employ people ruthlessly to fill in where those weaknesses are.

• 42:03Sonny Webster?

  Yeah, well, I've just I've just hired a videographer, but why does it for me when it just comes to when it comes to working with people? Instead of just paying someone to set the fee, give them skin in the game, give them a stake in in what you're doing. And it is far more motivating for that person to work harder, to grow with you and to grow your business, especially when you're starting out, especially when you don't necessarily have the cash flow to pay someone away. You know, I've just taken on a videographer. And because I've always wanted to do YouTube and I don't have the time to sit down and edit a video. So instead of saying, look, how much does it cost to put together a video? I said, look, you're like twenty percent of all the revenue that we make on YouTube.

• 42:44Sonny Webster?

  There is a lot of scale then for that person to put in time and effort to making that video great. And, you know, I think people then tend to take a lot more time into getting something done well if you give them that sort of incentive.

• 42:59Chris Williamson?

  Skin in the game is the perfect analogy for that. So I use that across most of my businesses, if not all of them. Good example, video guy Dean, who everyone that's watching will know, he'll be the guy that's editing this right now. He takes he takes fifty percent of all of the revenue that we make on YouTube. I brought him on board with every project I've just done. We just did our first brand collab with Reebok UK for the Nano nine release. We split that straight down the middle. I went and did a a Christmas seminar for Communicorp, which is one of the UK's biggest broadcasting companies. They own Smooth Radio and Capital FM and a few other bits. And that again brought Dean in on that and we keep on going. And, you know, now he's got things, he's incentivized to do that. And a lot of people ask about the club.

• 43:39Chris Williamson?

  Promo and how that ties in a good example of this is when we go and run an event in a nightclub. There's two ways that we can do things. We can do a dry hire, which is it's one thousand pounds a night or five hundred pounds a night or two thousand pounds a night, whatever it might be. Or we say you're on twenty percent of the door or thirty percent of the door or however much percent of the door. And obviously, if you have something which is a percentage, it protects you on the bottom end. Because if you've got low revenue, which inevitably everyone has, everyone has low revenue when they first start a business, right? It means that that person isn't this huge liability, which you've got to keep on shelling out, digging into your reserves. Which then down the line mean that you invest your money less effectively moving forward.

• 44:22Chris Williamson?

  But what it does for the person who is being offered the deal is, yeah, maybe they lose a little bit on the bottom end. But on the top end, when the business really starts shifting, that's when they get repaid. So it's all well and good.

• 44:35Sonny Webster?

  Everyone wins.

• 44:36Chris Williamson?

  It's a venue comes to us and says, oh, well, we want a thousand pounds a night and we go, okay, well, let's say that you you take twenty percent of the door. Oh, well, you know, in the depths of December, they might walk away with five hundred quid. But on Halloween, they might walk away with five grand. So you're like, well, there you go.

• 44:52Sonny Webster?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 44:53Chris Williamson?

  It's good, man. So what's what's next? You've got Aussie summer, it's Aussie Aussie summer, but Christmas.

• 44:59Sonny Webster?

  Coming to Aussie summer. Yes, that's it. So for me, I spent so much of this year travelling. I still love doing my seminars, you know, I've started doing retreats now as well, which definitely offer people a lot more than just improvement in their lifting. I get to show people

• 45:20Sonny Webster?

  the beauties of Bali in meeting new people. It definitely brings people out of themselves and takes them out of their comfort zones. I'm having more of an impact on people than just making them better at lifting, which, you know, is very fulfilling for me. And something that I'm very much enjoying. Uh, I still love travelling and I still love doing my seminars and that's getting popular and popular again. But moving forward this year, I'm not going to be zigzagging um the planet doing seminars. Um, as much as I love doing them, I'm going to be a little bit smarter about the ones I'm doing. Um, and try and just spend a little bit more time here up now till until Christmas.

• 46:01Sonny Webster?

  Uh, get into a good routine, get feeling good about myself again, um, get in shape, get a six pack for the summer. Um, get lifting heavy. I've got one trip to um Saudi Arabia to coach um. Someone at their house, so a private coaching session in Saudi Arabia, which is gonna be cool for a weekend.

• 46:19Chris Williamson?

  That's insane.

• 46:21Sonny Webster?

  That's exciting, man, you know, it's something new that someone just reached out to me, offered me that, so. I'm gonna be doing that and, you know, who knows what's gonna be coming next, but definitely for this, for the near, near future. Um, it's just getting back into my routine and yeah, simple stuff, brother.

• 46:38Chris Williamson?

  Only in Saudi Arabia would someone have the cash to be able to fly you from Oz all the way over there. Oh my god.

• 46:45Sonny Webster?

  Yeah.

• 46:46Chris Williamson?

  Lindo's gonna have to make sure that you don't come back as that part of an arranged marriage or something like that and you just get wife off while you're over there.

• 46:53Sonny Webster?

  Could you could can't even really, I couldn't even do take Lindo.

• 46:56Chris Williamson?

  Oh shit, yeah, of course not.

• 46:58Sonny Webster?

  Yeah, I've got to go to the embassy and get all signed off and everything this week, so.

• 47:03Chris Williamson?

  That's serious.

• 47:05Sonny Webster?

  But how exciting, you know, um, and then I think January we'll start travelling again, do do some seminars in the Middle East. Uh, January and then I've just today sorted out seminars for Toronto. Um, in Feb and then I've also got another training retreat in Bali in February, so I'm up to February of next year. Um, pretty much planned, so I'm trying to go a little bit further ahead this time than normally.

• 47:31Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, just spinning the plates all the time. Toronto in February is gonna be absolutely freezing.

• 47:38Sonny Webster?

  That's what I've heard, but I'm kind of excited for that because it'll make a nice change after the nice summer. Um, here and it means I might be able to do some skiing.

• 47:45Chris Williamson?

  Nice. Yeah, that is good, man.

• 47:47Sonny Webster?

  What about you? What have you got on the cards, bro?

• 47:50Chris Williamson?

  Um, so we've just had freshers week.

• 47:53Sonny Webster?

  Short term, long term?

• 47:54Chris Williamson?

  Uh, freshers week just out the way, um, which is always a bit of a brutal time of the year, but we've got, we launched a brand new one and a half million pound super club. Uh, in Newcastle, which is great. Uh, then we picked up a new Friday at quite a prestigious club, which is taking over really nicely. And then the Thursday's still solid. So the club stuff's ticking over. Uh, we're doing more brand collabs, which is like really cool and different and kind of not a direction that I'd seen. The channel necessarily going in, but I really enjoy. So Lucy and the guys, um, Reebok have been really good. I'm now officially tied in with Saurin, uh, which is hilarious after like.

• 48:29Sonny Webster?

  That was your dream.

• 48:31Chris Williamson?

  I know, man. This is my dream sponsorship.

• 48:34Sonny Webster?

  And you've had some amazing people like on this, on this podcast, man. Some really like. Interesting people, which is cool. Cause that's always what you talked about.

• 48:44Chris Williamson?

  That's all I want, man. I just want to have more interesting conversations. That's all Rogan does, right? Like Rogan does at scale. Just what everyone would probably want to spend their afternoon doing anyway, which is just sitting down, having a coffee. And having a chat with some guy that's crazy interesting. Ah, that's something. So I was going to mention this earlier on. When you were talking about, um, resilience and sort of continuing to go past barriers. The guy that I spoke to last night, his book's down there, a guy called Keith Cooper, who wrote, um, The Contact Paradox. So this guy has been writing this book on and off for 10 years, right? He went through three dozen publishers and lost two agents in the time it took him to write this book. So the book's about the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, why we should be concerned about, um.

• 49:30Chris Williamson?

  Meti, which is outgoing sending messages as opposed to receiving, like it alerts us to other civilizations which might be out there and real like just cool as fuck, big picture thinking shit about what would an alien civilization that's maybe millions or billions of years advanced, what would they look like? How would they react to finding that we're in the in the universe, right? And this guy's gone through, he's been sacked by or dropped by two agents. He submitted the manuscript to like three dozen publishers. And then he ends up getting picked up by Bloomsbury, who the people who ended up doing it. And they they'd already rejected it once, like five years previous, but he goes back to them.

• 50:09Chris Williamson?

  And when you were talking about, you know, if you have something which you genuinely care about and you keep on doing it and you feel and believe in it enough. It's so wishy washy, right? Because you see these quotes online, these motivational quotes like, you know, just keep grinding, it's fucking Gary Vee hustle and grind bullshit like. But increasingly, I'm surrounded by people who are living, breathing examples that that is an effective strategy. And this Keith Cooper guy, he's talking to me and it was the first the first podcast he's done on the on the book. And he finished with this little segment, he's not like, you know, he's a fucking astrophysicist, right? Like, he's not an emotional dude, but he finished with this little segment where he was like, you know, I've been dropped by two agents, three dozen publishers and ended up getting picked up by someone that rejected it the first time.

• 50:52Chris Williamson?

  If there's someone out there that's got a project that they believe in, I'm just telling you that if you do keep on grafting at it, that, you know, it'll come out the way that you want in the end.

• 51:02Sonny Webster?

  And that's exactly it, man, you know, if, you know, my life's been consumed by this beautiful, wonderful, weird sport of Olympic weightlifting. I've now managed to turn it into something that gives me a livelihood. And it's still something I'm extremely passionate about and it's. You know, through all of that, it's still something that spits out some terrible days for me, some very dark times, some bad news. It doesn't stop me continuing to wanna achieve my goals, you know, and and give back to the sport, give back to the people. That are invested in this sport. And you know, even for me now, we're looking at building a gym in Sweto. Um, in February, I'm going to South Africa.

• 51:45Chris Williamson?

  What's happening with that?

• 51:46Sonny Webster?

  Yeah, so I'm going to South Africa. This guy reached out to me last year, came to my summit, my training retreat and said, look, there's this. Um, small gym in Sweto, really deprived area in South Africa and. Um, they're training and they sent me the photos of the conditions and it was terrible. They had broken bars and. But he said they're doing something great there and they're taking the kids off the streets and getting them into lifting. And um, I spoke to this guy called Catty and he had, um, his dream is to get someone from Sweto to the Olympic Games. And I listened to his story and it just resonated with me so much, obviously with with my childhood dream and.

• 52:27Sonny Webster?

  You know, I thought I could do something to help these people. And I always like. Ride straight back to that moment where, you know, I needed the help and support to get to the Olympic Games and. Jeff gave me that support and help that I needed along with other people along the way. And you know, I'm now in a position where I've got uh, an audience and I've got um, an income and I wanna help. You know, so um, basically, we're gonna be building a gym in in Sweto. And hopefully, you know, it's gonna be the first one of these charities called Lifting Dreams, the charity and um.

• 53:06Sonny Webster?

  We're working for a few different partners to raise money. We got our first fundraisers uh, in a few weeks in, I'm doing like an open training session in Sydney. Um, we also met a winemaker in Barossa at one of my seminars a few weeks ago. So we're gonna be producing my own wine and all the proceeds from the wine is going to. Help some, help build the floor at the gym in Sweto and we've got lots of crazy um, ideas, but that's fun too, you know, it's. It's that eventually will be what this will be about when the Sunny Webster Academy is making. Um, enough money for me to live the life that I want. It'll be about doing cool shit and helping, helping other people, you know. Achieve their dreams.

• 53:49Chris Williamson?

  Mate, that's so cool, like the chance, the opportunity to help a underprivileged community like that's sick. And also the fact that you're making your own wine, like I, it, I have to say it doesn't surprise me. Like, in the nicest possible way, it doesn't surprise me. Um, but man, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on. I know that everyone will be super, super happy to hear from you again. And we don't, we're not allowed to leave it this long until the next one. I need to get you back on soon.

• 54:17Sonny Webster?

  No, of course not. Well, we'll have some more updates.

• 54:21Chris Williamson?

  I know, man.

• 54:21Sonny Webster?

  But yeah, it's been a pleasure. Thank you very much for having me back on, Chris. And thank you to everyone that's tuned back in to, to listen to this and supporting Chris's dream and Chris's channel. Um, it's, you know, I even find them extremely listening to listen to. So thank you, Chris.

• 54:36Chris Williamson?

  It's a pleasure, man. Thank you very much. Enjoy. And I'll see you the next time that you're back in the UK.

• 54:42Sonny Webster?

  Take care, brother.