Sargon Of Akkad | Why Are We Facing A Crisis In 2020?

Sargon Of Akkad is a British political commentator and a YouTuber. 2020 has had some serious history occur, and we’re only halfway finished. I wanted to get Carl on to try and cut through the mud and work out just why everything has come to a head. Extra Stuff: Subscribe to Sargon on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCitU2-w3XE8ujvUZjcAnhIg Get my free Ultimate Life Hacks List to 10x your daily productivity → https://chriswillx.com/lifehacks/ #sargonofakkad #socialjustice #chriswilliamson - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: [email protected]

• 0:00Speaker 0

  It's totally valid to feel like we're in sort of fall of the republic territory here. Because we are. I mean, this is uh, you know, probably something like crisis of the third century if we're comparing Western civilization to Rome. Uh so we've pro we've I think we probably do have a couple hundred years left to go. Uh but I think it's evident that whatever we've been doing to bring us to this point is leading us on a path to destruction.

• 0:30Speaker 1

  Are you the most demonetized man on the internet?

• 0:34Speaker 0

  Um possibly. Uh well, I mean, a lot a lot of people have also been demonetized, so uh not including the federalists though, apparently. They just had to turn off their comment section at Google's behest. Otherwise they would have been. But yeah, Zero Hedge, Steven Crowder, myself, and a bunch of other people can't kill it. You know, we've we all get demonetized because we say things that are not very politically correct, I suppose. It's happened twice to

• 1:02Speaker 1

  you now though, right? It has. So what was

• 1:05Speaker 0

  three times actually. I'd say four times now to think about it.

• 1:08Speaker 1

  Dude, that's the title. That title's yours to tell you. It's happened a lot.

• 1:12Speaker 0

  Um it's it's just because I talk about things that the progressives also talk about, but I don't talk about them in a progressive way. And so I'm a bad person.

• 1:23Speaker 1

  So what's the current makeup of your YouTube verse at the moment? Because you've got a multiple channels, right?

• 1:30Speaker 0

  Yeah, the only one I really use at the moment is a CAD daily, because I'm currently setting up a website um to do the same sort of things through. Um I'll start a podcast and other things after I've done that. So I'm just using this one at the moment.

• 1:43Speaker 1

  Got you. And then you've still got the like the old archived one, the grandfathered one.

• 1:49Speaker 0

  Yeah, yeah, but um YouTube have uh quarantined it in some way. So uh and I tested this the other day on my new channel. Uh I've got 300,000 subscribers, and if I put up a video, within the first like 18 hours, I'll have a million impressions and some like 200,000 views. Um my old channel, I put it up, and in the first 18 hours, I had about 100,000 impressions. And it and that's got nine hundred that's got three times the subscriber base as my new channel, and yet it'll get something like you know, tenth of the views. And it's crazy, because I'm I'm my content isn't, I don't think markedly different. My audience still seems to be there. So it seems very much that the channel itself has been throttled in some way. So I guess I just have to leave it.

• 2:35Speaker 0

  I

• 2:35Speaker 1

  love the idea of a quarantine channel.

• 2:37Speaker 0

  Yeah, well, it happened to Tommy Robinson as well, and it's it's happened to a few. Um but these days are just outright taking them down. Uh there have been um people who uh excuse me. Um people who are more much more extreme than me, who uh have been slowly the the noose has been tightening, and now we've come to conservative channels because all of the alt right or anything like that, they're all gone now. Uh they're on different platforms. So the noose is just growing tighter, and uh you can see that people get targeted before they get removed as well. Like Katie Hopkins and Milo had their blue check marks removed for their verification check marks on Twitter removed, which is weird because it just kind of shows that it's not about verification.

• 3:22Speaker 0

  It's about a privilege, then isn't it? I mean, i Milo and Katie didn't stop being Milo and Katie, and no one thought that they did. You know, and since they they were public figures of note, you would think that it would be important for the public to easily identify them, but apparently not. It was a warning

• 3:41Speaker 1

  shot across the bow then.

• 3:43Speaker 0

  Yeah, I think uh yeah, it is. And I th I think I mean Facebook actually has an active list of uh I can't remember exactly what they call the list, but essentially it just translates to wrong thinkers. Uh I'm actually on it, and a lot of other people were on it who have been removed. I don't know how I still have a Facebook presence, but I mean I don't say anything that's that's wrong, you know, crazy or even bigoted or anything like that. You know, I don't even make jokes anymore. Um because you can't have any fun on the internet anymore, apparently.

• 4:09Speaker 1

  But increasingly I've noticed that your stuff appears to be more and more you kind of treading it sounds a little bit sometimes like you are treading on ice.

• 4:17Speaker 0

  Well, we are. There's very much a sort of Damocles hanging above our heads, and it's fallen a few times and cut me already. So uh

• 4:24Speaker 1

  You've got the scars to prove it, yeah. Yeah,

• 4:26Speaker 0

  exactly. I've got the scars to prove it, that's right. Um so yeah, I uh I just have to have to be the the thing that's really interesting is the way this all worked out, because I I can't help but notice that you're in your house in your bedroom uh doing this. And I began in very much the same way. I just had a one bedroom flat and I was just doing it in my living room, you know, because uh at the time I was unemployed, so I was just like, well, I may as well. And it took off. Um now I have a converted garage as my office, but uh you know, I started in very much the same position, and it's interesting how we're being held to the same standards as something like CNN or Fox News, you know, giant organizations with hundreds of employees, and we're being held to the same standards, which really makes you wonder why they need all of that to do their jobs, doesn't it?

• 5:16Speaker 0

  You know, if it's so easy that just cut you know, guys in in their homes can do as effective a job, then maybe uh maybe there's a there's a veil that they're hiding behind.

• 5:27Speaker 1

  This was a point that Eric Weinstein made on Joe Rogan's podcast, better than I've heard anyone make it, and what you said was that people refer to the mainstream media now. That's what they do the CNN, the BBC's so on and so forth. Corporate media. Hang on a second. If this podcast, me and you, Joe Rogan, or me and you, if this gets a hundred million views, which would be great. Uh but if this gets a hundred million views, and CNN puts a video up and it gets five hundred thousand views. Who's mainstream media now? Now you can call them traditional media. Traditional media is a nice word, but they don't want that because mainstream's a signal. Mainstream is we are the arbiters of truth, we are the ones that

• 6:09Speaker 0

  it it is it what what what we mean when we say mainstream isn't really the view counts, and it hasn't been for a while, and that's why we're being treated as competitors to them. Uh but what they're talking about is approved. These are the approved media, the approved gateways. The

• 6:25Speaker 1

  ratified ones.

• 6:26Speaker 0

  Yeah, exactly. The people and the thing is because it is all a system that interlocks, you cannot you can understand why they would want such a thing. Because it puts them all essentially on the same team when it comes to certain issues. Uh the for example, the BBC, they brag about how everyone still comes to the BBC when they want to get you know the the coronavirus information. It's like, okay, that's true, but you are also a privileged source because of your access. The politicians make the platforms as much as the platforms make the politicians. Uh if politicians wanted, they could just refuse to do interviews with any of the media and just do interviews on their own YouTube channels using a smartphone or something. You know, they say look, here's the questions I want to answer, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

• 7:13Speaker 0

  Thanks very much. And then the media would have to extract from that, and then they would just be just like anyone else. But it's access that they have. And this is it's it's a two-way street. They there are it's from from my time dealing with all of this, and I've I've met a few very interesting people in my time. It's very much about who you know, because there's no shortage of people. There's a shortage of trust. And so it's about making it creating like webs of trust between people and uh and it's very and the thing is I don't see how it could operate any other way. That's the problem. Uh because you've got too many people who are pulling at you, I would say. So I think it's probably inevitable it's gonna work that way. But yeah, so essentially, when you're someone like me and you come from it from the complete outside, you know, I didn't I didn't have any of this.

• 8:02Speaker 0

  Um I can see why they hate us,

• 8:04Speaker 1

  you

• 8:04Speaker 0

  know.

• 8:06Speaker 1

  Some guy in his garage. Some guy in his garage, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

• 8:11Speaker 0

  And because we can say things that they can't say. We can challenge narratives they don't dare challenge. Um they'll punish us for it. That's what they're doing.

• 8:20Speaker 1

  I think the long-term move of Joe Rogan to Spotify I had a chat with uh guy from podcast notes earlier on who understands the infrastructure very cleverly. And um he thinks that the long-term goal for Spotify with podcasting will be something similar to what Netflix has done. That if you signal to all of the big players, get the big players on board, play count goes up, easier views are available on there, they can monetize more highly, then once they get critical mass of podcasters across, that's where you need to go to put your podcast on to get the plays. Then once you're there, they can start to squeeze down the earning potential. Now I hope that it's not as Orwellian as that. And I also think the one um the final bastion, like the last stand that you have as a content creator, is you giving your word that you agree with the particular advert.

• 9:11Speaker 1

  So the difference in conversions on a dynamic versus a host red is huge. It's like 4X, basically. So Joe Rogan's saying I I use this C B D blah. Uh versus it being Have you got your new copy of Learning and Housewife magazine from WH Smith's get your first, you know, it just doesn't convert as well. So I think that's maybe the chink in the armor, but that could be long term, you know.

• 9:34Speaker 0

  Yeah, I mean, oh, this honestly, this is a part of the reason why I'm setting up my own site, you know, so I don't have to be reliant on any one host or anything like that. Um

• 9:43Speaker 1

  As long as you don't turn into Brian Rose from London Reel, that would make me I don't know who that is, sorry. Good. That is that is the most blissful situation that you could hope to be in, my friend.

• 9:55Speaker 0

  I'll I'll try and keep it there.

• 9:56Speaker 1

  Yeah, that would be great. Okay, so meat of it. How would you describe 2020 to someone that had been in a coma since Christmas?

• 10:07Speaker 0

  Um, I mean, it's not really very different to what I've been saying this whole time. It's just that here it is all come to fruition. I mean, it's it's really weird listening to mainstream voices basically sound like my 2017 videos, and it's really interesting that essentially everything I was saying, this is not just um what what we are seeing is not just people complaining about police brutality, right? This is fundamentally a communist revolution that has been brewing in academia, teaching a generation to think that capitalism and the West is evil, and this gives them moral license to tear it all down. I mean, a statue of George Washington was torn down in Portland the other day, uh, because apparently he was a slave-owning racist.

• 10:53Speaker 0

  It's like, well, I mean, you know, the United States is gonna be tainted by this original sin that it can never overcome, and obviously we are as well. And so this just means that these people have an emotional um sort of disposition against the thing that they're attacking. Like they they don't think they'll ever be able to become patriotic again because they've been emotionally conditioned to hate that thing, you know, like it they the demands they're going to make are also going to be insane, which they are, uh like demanding get rid of the police and things like this. And you'll see here people say, oh no, we just want to, you know, police reform. Bullshit. You know, the the activists, the radicals, the people who are actually driving this, are quite open.

• 11:41Speaker 0

  They want to get rid of the police. And that would be, I mean, there have been examples of police going on strike, and it within hours devolves into an anarchic situation. And we can see from the chaz or the chop, as they're calling it now, uh, that this isn't exactly a productive way of life, is it? You know, we have law and order and justice, uh, you know, judiciary and a government for a reason. As evil as they can be at times, we still do need them in general, you know. So um basically we have to understand that this is a communist revolution that we are watching, which is why they do all the same things as previous communist revolutions, like setting up a commune, you know, uh tearing down the established order, the statues of the established order, and they're just very open about saying they want to get rid of capitalism.

• 12:33Speaker 0

  Like Black Lives Matter did a fundraiser in the UK that's probably earned over a million pounds now, it was 750 when I last looked at it. And on the on the first line, it's like we're here to demantle c dismantle capitalism, imperialism, white supremacy, hetero patriarchy, and stuff like that. And people are looking at Nigel Farage, and Farage is finally saying, Well, look, these people are actually communists who are here to take over capitalism, uh, which I was saying, and everyone's like, Well, you can't prove him wrong, can you? None of the first line.

• 13:08Speaker 1

  None of that stuff sounds to me like the first the best way to progress black people in this world.

• 13:15Speaker 0

  It's not the best way to do anything. It's that's the problem. The problem with communism is it's a religion masquerading as an economic system. Like nobody would want no nobody would question what side is more productive. Like when the Soviet Union fell, they Americans sent economists over there to do an analysis, and they basically found that they were earning about half as much as they could be, just given what they had. It's just the the means of distribution being centralized and top-down. Demolish any kind of incentive. Like when you take away the security of the protection of your own private property, you've got no reason to get up every day and start building something. You know, why would you if it's just gonna be taken away from you? And so it's very difficult to motivate people.

• 14:00Speaker 0

  Um it's obvious that this is the case. But it's not about that. What it's about is establishing something that they can feel is perfect and moral, because it's all predicated on morality. Like it like they'll say things like capitalism will never end inequality. Well, no, that's true. But inequality is such a fundamental part of diversity, that why would it even be desirable to do that? If we were all equal, we'd have to be all the same, and therefore there's no diversity. Like there's a natural difference. There's always going to be people at different heights. And if you want everyone to be the same, then your only option is the lowest common denominator, because you can't raise up people who aren't going to be raised, and you you'll have to pull down people who otherwise wouldn't stay at the bottom wrong.

• 14:46Speaker 0

  Um yeah, so essentially we have to deal with it in these terms. It's it's a moral crusade that the communists are on, and they literally don't think there's anything moral about our system, which they've pathologized as whiteness.

• 15:00Speaker 1

  Even if it's not necessarily white, it's there's a number of black people that can be on that other side of the fence, it's if you don't agree with a particular ideology. So how has this year fitted together? How do you think that coronavirus contributed to this or Trump being impeached or the impending general election, the uh American presidential election? Have you got some sort of conception of how that fits together? Does it even all fit together?

• 15:24Speaker 0

  Well, I think that the coronavirus um I I don't know. You get people saying, oh, this probably accelerated things. Well, maybe I don't I don't I you know I honestly I don't think anyone can really be sure of that. So I'm not gonna suggest that's an a causal factor, especially as I don't think it needs to have been in play to be a causal factor. Um it could just be that it set the stage, but I th but the the Tinder, you know, you know, like but the Tinder was already there, you know, it was already ready for the match to be flicked into it. Maybe it just packed in more tightly so the explosion was bigger or something, but like the what we've been seeing is the result of a consistent pattern of activism from a consistent set of beliefs that have recognizable public figures as adherents and thought leaders.

• 16:17Speaker 0

  Uh Robin D'Angelo is the person who's like trending in these spheres at the moment. Her book White Fragility was at number one, so it's and it's worth reading because it's unapologetic. I mean, I made I was reading it earlier, I made some notes. Let me just read you a quick line or something from it, because it's just crazy. Um the the whole point um is she thinks she's saying to white people what people of colour can't tell us, and she views white culture as being like and she just says white because it's in the American context, but she's talking about the sort of Anglo-Saxon Protestant European culture that America was founded on because it was an English colonies. Um she views that as a kind of ethnic attack on non-white people.

• 17:04Speaker 0

  That's what whiteness is, and that's what white supremacy is. Just by

• 17:09Speaker 1

  existing.

• 17:09Speaker 0

  But not just by existing, uh, but yes, it is just by existing. But the it's in the way that it is different to these other cultures. It's uh individualistic and meritocratic, for example. These are the two big pillars that she uses about whiteness. Um, which, yeah, it would be. You would expect that. It's it comes from England, which was an individualistic society, and it's meritocratic because it's a Protestant society. It's very geared around personal hard work. Uh this has been a like a a moral tradition in England. You know, you you went and it infects every part of the culture. So like, you know, when you're poor, you are ashamed of being poor because the implication in the English moral system is that you've been lazy, right? It's that you are a free man, you know.

• 17:55Speaker 0

  The this is this was the point of being a free man, is that you had control of your life. And if you're poor, that means you're not working very hard, right? That's it. I'm not saying it's the case. It's just the moral implication of the thing. Um, and so that's why the shame attached to being poor in in English cultures. Um but the the whole structure, the uh the individualistic meritocratic, that is a form of racism in and of itself. That's the racist thing. And that's what white Europeans do in America, and therefore, whiteness, which is the desire for an individualistic meritocratic culture, needs to be destroyed. And what she's doing is trying to create a kind of white identity that is effectively laden with the presumably Catholic guilt that Miss D'Angelo has held over from her uh her parents, and load this identity onto people, saying, look, whiteness is a form of oppression, it is inherently racist, you need to, you know, understand that you're someone who perpetuates it by having standards, by wanting to be treated like an individual, to be, you know, to be concerned about merit, to be concerned about skill in the things that are going on rather than arbitrary and I d and expressly identity politics category.

• 19:08Speaker 0

  She she's just open saying, no, I'm arguing from identity politics for white people. So in many ways, she's actually very similar to Richard Spencer, because that was exactly his message.

• 19:22Speaker 1

  Do

• 19:22Speaker 0

  you want to become a Nazi? That's your option. D'Angelo is offering it, and I'm saying no to that. No, it's no way. I'm not becoming a white identitarian, even if it comes laden with guilt, and I have to prostrate myself. I mean, this is why. This is why you're seeing, you know, um the CEO of Chick-fil-A shining a black guy's shoes on stage. So, oh yeah, brilliant. Shoe shining, forced racial shoe shining. That's the path to racial harmony, isn't it? You know, I mean, that's the surely the thing you're saying that was done wrong in the past, and yet they're like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna No, we're not shining each other's shoes, okay? We're not doing that. That's totally disrespectful, which is what you were objecting to. To you know, and so we're not gonna do it and somehow make rec recompense or reparations out of this. But this humiliating.

• 20:08Speaker 1

  The thing which has sort of struck me the most has been how performative some of the communication has been from everybody. And that no matter what your goal is, no matter what your viewpoint is, communication should be honest, not performative. Because as soon as you start to do that, you can't tell who the where the truth's coming from, who actually cares, who doesn't care, and all the things that we need to talk about most are precisely the things that we can't talk about. And until we are allowed to have a nuanced conversation, the how do you even move forward?

• 20:47Speaker 0

  I I think you you make a really interesting point about performative uh conversations, and I I totally agree with you. I think a lot of them, especially from the corporations. Uh, for example, Discord today published uh thing saying, Oh, we're gonna do our part against the fight against whiteness. Um and we're gonna start policing your chats and stuff, so if there's anything we consider to be problematic, we're coming after it, we're gonna get it. Um that's really interesting, isn't it? Because it like what does that do? You know, that doesn't make less racists, it does seem entirely performative, and like you're saying, it it if it feels hollow because communication is usually not done uh essentially from compulsion, you know. Like it it seems that these people are not speaking from a real and true conviction, it seems that they're watching everyone else thinking, Jesus Christ, we're better do something, or we're gonna get fucking uh so here we go.

• 21:43Speaker 0

  And so you've got communication when it when two people are talking, there's loads of different factors that go into the tone and the the message. You've got the sense, you've got the tone, you've got the actual words spoken, the logical structure, the semantic construction of the sentence. There's a lot that goes into us communicating. And yet when these people come out and give their kind of oh, we we are for diversity, diversity is our strength, it sounds very hollow and very forced. There's you know, there's there's no human connection to it. That's why it feels like corporate speakers.

• 22:18Speaker 1

  Well, so much of it's like hostage gun to the head stuff. Yeah to me, like I don't know. If I was I was gonna say if I was the head of Black Lives Matter, but that they don't that there isn't a there isn't a single figurehead. There is they're so distributed that you can't you can't deal with someone, which I I'd love to get your thoughts on in a second. But like if I was someone who genuinely cared about Black Lives Matter, and I got a guy who works for me who's actually uh iffy, really cool guy from Canada who said, I don't like the way that stuff's being done over here. I I've proposed to my university that I'm going to kind of take on uh try and move this movement forward, and I was like, man, like you know, good luck to you. It's gonna be it's gonna be a challenge, but good luck to you. But like if I was watching that, I wouldn't think great, we've we've got another ally.

• 23:05Speaker 1

  I'd think, hang on a second, I don't trust that person. Um

• 23:10Speaker 0

  yeah, I there's a there's a fundamental disconnect in the way that the world views are being approached, and this is like if if anyone considers themselves uh essentially a conservative, uh this is the thing that you really have to bear in mind. Um the intersectional left, which are the the people who that that's an umbrella term that will broadly describe Black Lives Matter, feminism, antifar, you know, the other communists you see on TV, um, and people who are parroting the same talking points in the same way as them. Uh they have a view of a human being that's just very different to your own. Uh most uh I I'm gonna get a little bit esoteric here, but like most people uh have a kind of unitary view of a human being. The human being is you know, you are your body, you have certain properties that are created by your body, which is your strength, how high you are, how tall you how far can you jump, and it also includes your brain, and people understand that the brain's a biological organ, and that's the source of your consciousness, your will, right?

• 24:13Speaker 0

  And so most people will understand that there is a biological connection between what you think and what you are, and you'll you'll notice in like your moods, you know. You you see people when they take uh when they transition and they start taking hormones, they they speak about their dispositions, the way they feel becomes different, and that's totally normal because the brain is a biological uh piece of uh uh you know part of an organism and it's affected by reality. And so most people don't think that the will has like this this sacred sovereignty and the the will is being constrained by the body. Most people just kind of and without you know, without articulating it like this, but that's the assumptions that they'll make, is that you know you've you've you're you're all a part of a biological organism.

• 25:02Speaker 0

  But if you look at left-wing philosophy at the moment, it's oh I've got this the wrong way around, but anyway. Um the if you look at left-wing philosophy at the moment, they they take a totally different approach. Like what what is it for a regular person to identify a woman? They'll say an adult human female, right? But that's a transphobic definition, because that means that it can't simply be that a person identifies as a woman to be a woman. And that's a very, very interesting dichotomy because adult human female is very much based in biology, it's very much based in in the the presence of a person, you know, it's an objective category. I can look and see that you're an adult, I can see you're a human, I can see you're a female, or I could check if maybe um, but I I can objectively determine that.

• 25:50Speaker 0

  However, what you choose to be is only in your head, and it grants license to the idea that the thoughts, the consciousness, are somehow the supreme sovereign over everything. That's the most important thing. Um I don't and and I I realize that this is a very esoteric way of looking at it. But what that does is it makes it transcendental, it means it's not connected to the biology. The biology is actually holding it back rather than being a the it being a product of the biology. And so you end up getting people saying, Well, if I if I will that I am a woman one day, then I should become a woman. And it's like, okay. I mean, like I I don't know, I'm not trying to be mean or anything, and I know that I agree that gender dysphoria was uh it is a you know a problem that a person has, but that doesn't mean that the will is just correct, you know.

• 26:40Speaker 0

  We it's it's there is a biological process that has not gone right to produce that result because it's an imperfect system, but the will itself, just because it you know there's conditions that make it feel a certain way, it's not completely free, and so we can't just treat it as autonomous, right? But they are treating it as autonomous. Oh, I will that I'm a woman, I will that I'm this, I will that's like yeah, okay, you know, you can say that, but you know, objective reality has a different opinion, and the the the big schism between the two is whether you are a kind of person who believes in objective reality, which means we're rooted in biology and rooted in things that we can touch, or are we actually you know sovereign wills that are trapped within this fleshy form, you know?

• 27:27Speaker 0

  So that's I I I realize that that's it's probably it sounds silly to people who aren't really thinking deeply about all of this, but that's essentially the philosophical basis, I think.

• 27:38Speaker 1

  The manifestation of the will, the manifestation of that inner soul somehow that is what it is. Yeah, um

• 27:45Speaker 0

  well just uh explain very very yeah, like the it it comes basically from continental philosophy, and it it comes essentially from the idea that the will that there can be a perfectly good will and a perfectly good will can only be something that's not contingent on reality because it would have to be true in all times and places, basically. Um and that it's a it's a very uh continental way of looking at it, and it's not a very British way of looking at it. It's a very idealistic way of looking at it. Uh but the the English speaking world has always been very empirical uh and not really given to tremendous flights of fancy. Um and that's essentially the the major difference that we're looking at here. And so it's not a surprise that the English speaking world is looking at this thinking, what the hell is going on? Because it doesn't make any sense to them.

• 28:32Speaker 0

  You know, it's it's it's uh it's annoying, frankly.

• 28:35Speaker 1

  What's your views on the recent removal of Faulty Towers German episode?

• 28:42Speaker 0

  Um it's been decades since I've seen it. But if I recall correctly, wasn't that mocking racism? Like, wasn't that the point of it? I'm not sure. I'm absolutely certain that the point I I like like I said, it's been decades since I've watched it, but I'm sure that the point of the episode is to mock some guy who is being racist all the time and to show him as being the backwards buffoon that he clearly was. Um but yeah, nothing nothing's safe. And uh you know what's interesting is who asked for it, who asked for them to take these things down, you know. This is this is the very interesting thing.

• 29:15Speaker 1

  Germans don't strike me as the sort of group that are vetting I don't know what German I don't know the German culture that closely, but they don't strike me as the sort of social justice type.

• 29:26Speaker 0

  Uh there's probably a bit more social justice in there than you think.

• 29:29Speaker 1

  Really? Um

• 29:30Speaker 0

  yeah, I lived in Germany for eight years. They're they're quite systematic thinkers. Um but it it wasn't Germans that got it pulled. It wasn't even because of Germans. Uh it was because the guy said the N-word

• 29:41Speaker 1

  in it.

• 29:42Speaker 0

  Um because in the seven yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but made in the 70s. So I

• 29:46Speaker 1

  don't remember that happening.

• 29:48Speaker 0

  I'm sure I'm sure I I think I'm sure

• 29:50Speaker 1

  he did.

• 29:50Speaker 0

  I'm sure he did.

• 29:50Speaker 1

  I like I said

• 29:51Speaker 0

  comments below. Yeah, yeah, it's been decades since I've seen it, but I'm sure he says the N word in it. But that's part of the ridiculousness of the character, you know, that's part of what you're meant to be laughing at. But yeah, it wasn't it wasn't Germans that got it pulled down, but it was got it was people who were aware that the mob on Twitter has certain trigger points, and one of those is the N-word. The other one is blackface, you know. So a bunch of things were taken down that had people doing blackface in. Again, the joke is not the expense of black people, it's the expense of the character doing the blackface. But it doesn't matter, the context is all gone now, none of that matters.

• 30:27Speaker 1

  Bo selector was shite when it came out. Yes. Like that should have been taken down for just being shit. Like forget, forget the implications of social justice. That's

• 30:37Speaker 0

  whiteness. That's white meritocratic view, isn't it? Well, Avid Merion was just wank.

• 30:41Speaker 1

  Like, regardless, regardless of never liked that. And man, like, how dare you? How dare you make your career off the back of Craig David, who it must have murdered. And I know for a fact that he's had a conversation with Lee what's he called? The fella that Avid Marion guy, the guy that's like three layers behind the person that was Craig David, that guy. Um, and uh then Craig had this amazing uh resurgence of a career like what sort of four or five years ago or something like that, did that song and then Justin Bieber remix and blah blah, and now he's selling out Ibiza doing all this stuff. But his career, make no mistake about it, his career stopped because of that character. Yeah, that's why his career tanked. Like forget the social justice side of stuff.

• 31:27Speaker 1

  That's one man bearing the brunt that he's the tip of a very, very, very long spear, right? And he's bearing the brunt of all of that, like that is fucking disgusting. That's the thing that's terrible about it. Like, think about all the jokes that Craig David's had to go through. I had this flourishing career, this young uh mixed race uh RB artist, fantastic, good looking guy, really good voice, blah blah blah, and then just some fella decides again, regardless of race, could have been a black guy, could have been a white guy, could have been a nation guy, decides to do that. Like, that's absolutely scandalous, but that was allowed on TV at the time. How do you get something past that is targeting one person?

• 32:10Speaker 0

  Well, that that was why John Barnes said he saw no problem with it at all. It's making fun of a particular person. He wasn't making fun of a race or anything. But again, now with with this new framework of the idea of whiteness, uh, there's no such thing. Like everything that we do is inherently racial uh to these people. So uh none of none of that sort of stuff is gonna be made anymore. So this this is over now.

• 32:35Speaker 1

  Yeah, is this just the new world? Because I'm being honest, like I again I don't want my empathy's sort of fairly crippling, and I don't want something to be on TV that makes a group of people feel uncomfortable. Like, if if it was uh if that was the sort of thing that really does make a a big swath of the population feel uncomfortable, then I like have it for the people that should have it on DVD or whatever, you know, the same way as sacrilegious books or whatever back in the day, don't burn the books, but also in the

• 33:03Speaker 0

  same way Facebook doesn't put pornography on.

• 33:06Speaker 1

  Curate the message for the audience and don't put it in front of people who may not want to see it. Um but is is this the new world now? Have we permanently brought the guardrails in on the type of content that's going to be produced publicly?

• 33:19Speaker 0

  Um yes, until there's a counter-revolution. Uh the the social justice types are revolutionaries, openly so, they'll tell you. I mean, Bernie Sanders has been leading this, and he's been calling it a revolution. He wrote a book called Our Revolution, you know. I mean, he's not nearly down as far down the rabbit hole as these people, but he's still part of the same movement. Um they they're very uh they love communist revolutions because the idea is they're gonna there's gonna be an amazing revolution, we'll establish the perfect order, and therefore history's over, we can carry on living as however we we choose. Um essentially there's gonna like and it looks like all of our institutions have fallen to this. It looks like every company because there's there's no solid defense against it, because essentially you would have to make a defense outside of the logic of the thing, and nobody seems to be prepared to do this.

• 34:13Speaker 0

  Like every every conservative should be standing saying, look, I'm not making a commentary on Black Lives Matter as in as much as I am objecting to the moral framework that Black Lives Matter is built on. You know, I don't believe in racial collectivization. I don't believe that we should tear down some because of the others, and I don't believe that we can ignore bad actions for good intent. You know, the actions matter. We're like I say we, but generally, like I guess what we'll just call the right wing is very procedural,

• 34:45Speaker 1

  you know,

• 34:45Speaker 0

  how the you get to where you are, the the means are what justify the ends, and they really are on the other side, the ends justify the means. This is why they don't care if they're burning down cities, like thousands of b businesses have been burned and looted in America in the past month. Thousands. It's crazy in 40 cities. There's a part of a city that's been taken over by communists, and I'm just like that's just no, not one thing burned or looted is justified, you know. But to the people who are supporting it, and this is everywhere. This is newspapers, this is left-wing politicians, this is corporations. So the people supporting it, they don't care. You know, they don't care about the damage that's been done. And that's that's the the schism at the heart of the whole thing. And and while this order is in place, it's going to act exactly as you would think.

• 35:34Speaker 0

  It's going to drive towards moral perfection, like this abstract moral perfection. You you can already see it now. Who was it? Someone, someone who did blackface uh in a comedy skit, like 10 years ago. I I can't remember which one it was. One of the like late night comedian. Yeah, someone like that. It wasn't him, but it was someone like that. They they were saying that they were taking like a year off or something. It's like, oh, really?

• 36:02Speaker 1

  Exactly.

• 36:02Speaker 0

  So I mean exactly. I I don't really're going to continue and it's going to continue establishing itself until essentially it becomes untenable. But this group of people on the other side who think, well, actually, we think that a plurality of views and behavior matters. Um until they conduct their own kind of counter-revolution and either not just take back the industries or create new ones, um, then it's gonna be the social justice regime from here on out. And you can sit on the on Twitter at the moment, the things going around at the sky sky cinema, whether like the this uh like I can't remember exactly how it is, but essentially this film was made in a different era and may contain scenes that are disturbing to the people. And it's based on you know, it's for everything, even like the 2019 Eladdin reboot is now problematic.

• 36:52Speaker 0

  That's quickly

• 36:53Speaker 1

  making pejorative statements about people from Arabia.

• 36:56Speaker 0

  I don't even think it is. Like, I watched it, I don't I didn't see anything. Curly toed

• 37:01Speaker 1

  shoes with the little bells on the end or anything like that.

• 37:04Speaker 0

  But that's not is that bad? Well, I don't know. This is the thing, right? But I don't know. I don't I know I don't

• 37:10Speaker 1

  I don't know. So Variety, I asked you this. Variety's 10 problematic films that need disclaimers and discussions before and after watching.

• 37:19Speaker 0

  And they're now on Skype, uh Sky. I'm not sure. Sorry, yeah, no, no, they are

• 37:24Speaker 1

  in this list Dirty Harry, Forrest Gump, Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom, Me Before You, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which only came out last year. Yeah, uh, and then Children's Hour, the searches. So they're from the 60s. Forrest Gump, 1994, Dirty Harry 1971, Indiana Jones, 1984. I think that one was a was problematic because it showed Hindu people as being the ones that can take your heart out.

• 37:50Speaker 0

  Uh so yeah, I mean this it it's the circular firing squad though, but I'm always talking about now. Culture is going to be cleansed. And when people do this, there's a way it it's also competitive, right? There's a way there is a way of attaining status by doing this, by taking the scalp, you get to brag and say, Well, look, I just aided the revolution. You know, we are slightly closer to the social justice future because Indiana Jones has been censored away.

• 38:17Speaker 1

  Because head on a spike.

• 38:18Speaker 0

  Exactly, head on the spike. And it and this taking things down becomes competitive sport. You know, everyone's looking at everyone else getting kudos and thinking, well, I need to do something. You

• 38:26Speaker 1

  know, I found something, you know.

• 38:28Speaker 0

  And so the these campaigns will intensify until someone just says, Well, look, I just don't agree that this is a problem. Really if I'm the one that's not gonna happen.

• 38:37Speaker 1

  Like No, it's not,

• 38:38Speaker 0

  everyone's terrified.

• 38:39Speaker 1

  Yeah, and rightly so. Like the the silence is deafening stuff, so CrossFit. I don't know whether you've seen that the CrossFit CEO put his foot in it in a really, really huge way. They hadn't they hadn't decided to put out a message when every other company was during that period, that like five-day period, they didn't do that.

• 38:57Speaker 0

  The the black message with white writing.

• 38:59Speaker 1

  Um they didn't have one of those, and then Greg Glassman, the CEO did a thing, tweeted Um there was a little bit of nuance to it when you dug in deeper, but it was just it was just a stupid tweet. Like, and when you think of the current environment, it was as as basically as stupid as you can get, and now he's resigned, and that is that is tumbled out. There's no way that that wasn't gonna happen. There's no way that that wasn't gonna happen. And I, you know, from my side, I think, yeah, he fucked up. Like, see you later on, Greg, like you're off, mate. But there has to be a line somewhere with what we do with culture and with what we allow in from history. People that fuck up right now, I'm like, look, mate, you you're an adult, you know, but you can't judge the situations of history by the standards of today.

• 39:49Speaker 1

  However,

• 39:50Speaker 0

  yeah, you you wouldn't because it would be irrational to do so. It's like

• 39:55Speaker 1

  the searches made in nineteen fifty-six. Yeah, should that be. Condemned for it, okay. No, that shouldn't, that should be taken down. Okay. Let's roll the clock forward. At what point does doing a thing which today is reprehensible but back then was acceptable become due recompense in the now? Because no one's going to the people that made the searches in 1956 and saying we need your head on a spike, let's get rid of your Blue Tech on Twitter. They probably all

• 40:26Speaker 0

  dead.

• 40:26Speaker 1

  Yeah. But okay, so at some point where the children's are in 1961 or Indiana Jones.

• 40:32Speaker 0

  Who was the

• 40:32Speaker 1

  guy in Indiana Jones? Harrison Ford. Harrison Ford. Harrison Ford's head's not on a spike.

• 40:38Speaker 0

  Harrison Ford isn't really responsible. You'd think they'd be going after George Lucas for writing it, really. Yeah.

• 40:44Speaker 1

  But my point is like they will. There's a there's a line somewhere. And I just want I want to try and work out where that is, because once we have something definite, something a guideline that you can work with, you can be like, okay, I can respect the boundary that has been set. I can ensure that there is a rule whereby we do not make people in this in in this world feel uncomfortable. But for as long as there isn't a rule, you can pick and choose that's good, that's bad, that's good, that's bad. Joe Biden says in one sentence that it's uh racist for Trump to not uh let Chinese people in, and then two months later says that the lockdown started too late. Yeah, like multiple things being true at once is

• 41:30Speaker 0

  Yeah, I think I think that the desire to find consistent rules is uh in in some ways foolish because it it comes uh I'm not not trying to be in insulting or anything. I I I spent years struggling with that too, right? Um it's it's and and so I uh I was foolish to think

• 41:51Speaker 1

  expedite expedite my progress through this. Yeah, well

• 41:56Speaker 0

  once you realize that they're going for revolution, you realize that okay, well, revolutions are effectively wars, you know. You're you're talking strategy and tactics, disposition of the troops on the field, whenever the whatever the field of battle is, you know, it could be Magic the Gathering or something, you know, or Dungeons and Dragons, you know, or playing card games or you know, video games or whatever, it could be Hollywood movies, whatever the field of battle is, you've got uh people who are more powerful than others, and they they make moves and your side wins, your side loses. And once you realize that and it all of social justice requires power to be defined with it. What's racism? It's power plus privilege, right? That's uh power plus prejudice, sorry.

• 42:42Speaker 0

  Um that's that's not the definition of racism we use, but that's the social justice. All of these words are defined contextually in a schema of power. Um once you realize that, you realize that there's no point trying to be uh morally accurate in to what you've already said or to your own principles, right? Um because you're not trying to establish fairness, you're trying to win. You know, so if something benefits my side, yeah,

• 43:10Speaker 1

  yeah, yeah, yeah. In any direction.

• 43:11Speaker 0

  I mean, it's not it's not any cost. They do have they do have limits to things that they'll do and they won't do, uh, but those limits are way outside of the boundaries of what someone like you or me might find acceptable, you know, burning down business small businesses that's totally within these limits, you know, but uh you know, I don't know, insulting a trans woman or of colour on Twitter, that's totally out of limits. That's not gonna do it, you know. So they've they've just got very different standards. Um

• 43:45Speaker 0

  the the the the battlefield uh right, yeah. So this is why you see Joe, you know, Joe Biden can say one thing when it's advantageous for his team, and then the complete contradictory position when it's advantageous for his team, and none of his team will call him up on this. That it doesn't matter.

• 44:01Speaker 1

  Mate, that that blows my mind. The fact that you can have someone who can reverse their position, say a thing, and then within months say another thing. These people are supposed to be the leaders of public opinion, the pinnacle of how we deliver the will of the people to the the upper echelons of the most powerful country on the planet. How on earth is that allowed to happen?

• 44:27Speaker 0

  Because it's the great and good doing it. They're the ones with their fingers on the levers of power, aren't they?

• 44:32Speaker 1

  Like it should be the sort of thing that people scream from the rooftops. Like these are what we're doing here. Elected public officials. But it's like how is there not how does this allow you to trust? And that's not me to say Trump's any better, you know, Trump Trump says

• 44:47Speaker 0

  Trump's got a myriad of failings. But Trump is not a revolutionary. He doesn't want to overthrow the American Republic, he doesn't hate the founding fathers, he's not gonna tear down any statues, he's not gonna do any of it, he's not gonna defund the police. You know, he's not gonna increase drug and crime rates, you know, things like Trump has got so many failures, but being in favour of the concept of the system is not one of them. You know, that he's he's at least on that. Whereas the left hate the system, they hate what it is, how it's founded in their view. And so they they're going to do so much more damage than Trump would ever even conceive of doing. Trump like again, like Trump actually seems to care about fairness, as stupid as that sounds. Uh, when Charlottesville happened, and he was like, Look, I'm not talking about the Nazis, even though CNN always cut that bit out, uh, but on both sides of the argument there are good people, that's a fairness issue.

• 45:42Speaker 0

  You know, if he if he wanted, he could have said, yeah, the the proud or uh sorry, not the Proud Boys, the um the Nazis, Charlotte Field, you know, the the protesters did nothing wrong, Antifarr did something wrong. If he wanted, it would look terrible, you know, a fair-minded person be like, hang on a second, you know, they're both bad at this site, you know, and they and that you know it's not just one or the other. And so when they when the media, when CNN, when the Democrats say all evil lies in the opposition, you know that they're not playing for in in the uh ideal of establishing a fair uh playing field or or say not just playing field, just atmosphere, but a society that's fair.

• 46:22Speaker 1

  Given the fact that we have this crazy COVID situation that's just happened, everyone's got heightened emotions, heightened intensity, their time on site has been increased, they haven't got to see the people that they love, they're scared about catching a pathogen, which is like evolutionary wired into us to be something to be afraid of. So you've got this uh ambient anxiety, right? This low-level ambient anxiety that just sits in the background. Then on top of that, you have this constant news cycle, which this year has just been Trump got impeached this year,

• 46:53Speaker 0

  yeah.

• 46:54Speaker 1

  This year, which feels like no one cares, which feels like 80 years ago.

• 46:57Speaker 0

  It

• 46:58Speaker 1

  does,

• 46:58Speaker 0

  doesn't

• 46:58Speaker 1

  it? No one cares. So you've got you've got that's happened, you've got the the news which is being uh either misrepresented, uh distorted either purposefully or just due to the fact that they've got to try and keep up, which means that there's going to be uh willful and just uh accidental negligence going on, uh, then all of the George Floyd situation, you've got the subsecute uh subsequent riots, you've got and then you've got the upcoming presidential election, like this is the time where we should be trying to be as precise as possible with the things that we say, as honest and as truthful as possible, because any slight deviation from that will be magnified, and then when you add layer upon layer upon layer, like people that getting all of their truth from Twitter, like just from some guy on Twitter, and the fact that you can now do that and be a story which people start to repeat and becomes part of the canon, like it doesn't surprise me that this situation, like when you fully reflect on 2020, it doesn't surprise me that we have this level of inflammatory discussion, people talking past each other and just total the performative communication, uh everything.

• 48:07Speaker 1

  It doesn't surprise me. It

• 48:08Speaker 0

  was a long time coming. Uh the the the Twitter stuff I find really interesting because it's how it's affecting the media class. Uh there's a leaked uh memo from the Daily Beast where the the high-ups were trying to what they I think it was they were forbidding the use of Twitter during office hours because they felt that Twitter, and it's this I think broadening more uh broadly accurate, that Twitter itself is actually doing damage to the journalistic profession because yeah the the the and fake news is being widely perpetrated by it. Like, for example, when the football lads went to defend the chat statue of Churchill, uh the fake news surrounding this and the misinformation surrounding this is quite staggering. Uh the claim that they're Nazis is not true. And the proof of this is in the fact they were protesting against a statue of Winston Churchill being damaged.

• 48:57Speaker 0

  Gary Lineker or like you know, some of the famous football tweeted out going, why are these Nazis trying to save a statue of Winston Churchill? It's like, well, that's the very fact that you're asking the question means you need to do more research, doesn't it, Gary? You know, you should have looked in this and go, okay, well, hang on, are these Nazis? And then you go, oh no, they're doing Nazi salutes, and it's because there was a side-on uh picture, and you could see people putting up their hands, both hands like this, uh, because they do you know, they do this clap chant in the thing and they were chanting England, but from the side, oh you you can see how that might look like a Nazi salute. Uh but that was and even people like Julia Hartley Brewer were chant like repeating this, and then there was another fake bit of footage where someone had imposed over them uh the audio of some uh white nationalist or national front protest from like twenty seventeen where they're chanting we're racist and we like it as and this was again repeated everywhere on the radio, on LBC.

• 49:57Speaker 0

  I I heard all of it. And it's like that wasn't true. You know, the the football lads, there are many failings, again, like with Donald Trump, you know, many ethical failings of what they've done. However, they aren't Nazis. They are actually kind of like, you know, the post-World War II British patriots, you know. They firmly believe that Britain's role in the war was a good thing. They firmly believe in Winston Churchill's leadership, and they firmly believe in the narrative that we were on the side of side of right and not on the side of the Nazis. And yet they go, Oh, look at these Nazis. I mean, what we can do, you know.

• 50:32Speaker 1

  Did you see the map of voters in the UK that was shared just after the general election, and it had who voted by age, and it went hyper viral on Facebook, and it basically showed that um the implication was old people voted conservative, that's how Boris got in power. Did you see this?

• 50:55Speaker 0

  Yes.

• 50:56Speaker 1

  That became not only not only something that people thought, but fully believed like it was straight fact. And it was a map taken from 2017, 2016, I think.

• 51:14Speaker 0

  Really? I didn't know

• 51:15Speaker 1

  that. Yes.

• 51:17Speaker 0

  See, it's amazing how this stuff goes viral and then creates the fake news. But it's just putting some guy, some

• 51:23Speaker 1

  fella, you know, it's some girl from Bristol or Wigan. You know, sulford. And uh like it's it's it was a fact, but not in this particular circumstance. But again, like the fact that that is the way that the culture develops now should terrify everybody, no matter what side you're coming from.

• 51:44Speaker 0

  Yeah. Uh so social media has been a curse that we weren't ready for. Um I mean, it it's probable that something similar to the effect that we're seeing now would have happened given enough time, I think it's probably inevitable. Uh given the philosophies and you know them percolating through the culture, it probably would have done. But I think social media is just essentially an accelerating factor that's just got everything to go so much faster. And like that there was a study that showed that Twitter activates the same parts of the brain as being in a fight. So when you get on Twitter, you're in fight mode. Oh no, totally. You might not be moving, but your heart's pumping, your adrenaline is going, you're in your brain is is you know, is you're like arguing with someone on Twitter. You may as well be going and have a fight with that person. So it's like, okay, you're essentially stepping into the world's largest fight club when you lock into Twitter and get ready to get punched because everyone gets punched on Twitter, you know what I mean?

• 52:34Speaker 0

  And so it like it's just it's not good. So what do

• 52:37Speaker 1

  we do, man? Like

• 52:38Speaker 0

  the the problem is that the the interpretation of the facts uh diverging is fine. Everyone expects a divergent view of the interpretation of the facts. But because people are sat in their online echo chambers, and there can't really be any other way of doing this apart from having it so that you don't get to choose what you follow. Uh because when people get to choose what they follow, they follow the things that they like, and that means they only get that perspective, uh, one you know, one view. And so it it was that there was uh a plurality of opinions on the same facts, but now there is not. There's there's divergent facts for each side. And I really wish when Kellyanne Conway said oh, there are alternative facts, and it was like, ha ha, there's no such thing as alternative facts. Like, yeah, there are. There are facts you're not listening to, you're not paying attention to.

• 53:27Speaker 0

  Like, you know, despite being 13%, you know, that's a fact that you didn't want to mention. It's an alternative fact. It's still real, and yet you leave it out of the narrative. And so it's you know, it's it's it's now at the point where we don't even agree the same things happened. You know, the

• 53:43Speaker 1

  yeah,

• 53:43Speaker 0

  the the the London bubble is like, oh well, there were Nazi salutes. People with video cameras didn't capture any Nazi salutes. These people do not profess to be Nazis and they wish to defend Mr. Churchill. What do we do? Well, in the meantime, I don't know, I don't have all the answers, obviously. But what one thing that I do is I make sure that even if I hate it, I watch information from sources I don't agree with. Um there are a bunch of sources that I really don't agree with, and I found even more insufferable, but I've continued to force myself to watch these things to get you know they'll watch certain people's coverage of certain events.

• 54:18Speaker 1

  To get the other facts.

• 54:19Speaker 0

  To get the other facts that are. What are these

• 54:21Speaker 1

  what would you say? So let's say that I am, which I am a person who wants to try and at least get a broad cross section of what's going on. What would you advise that I read and listen to?

• 54:32Speaker 0

  Well, I mean, the the the most obvious place to start is like look, if you're gonna watch the mainstream news, um watch Fox News and MSNBC, and you'll hear two sides of the same narrative that will include facts that the other one didn't include. Uh so you will learn things from both sides. Um that's essentially what you've got to do on any subject, any any given event. Uh so I I find myself, you know, watching like David Pacman or Novara Media, and at the same time watching Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson. And I I I mean, like I I don't really like Fox News. I don't really like any of the personalities other than Tucker Carlson because I think he's actually on the money a lot these days. Um basically you've got to find yourself a sort of list of people on either side of any political debate who you find tolerable that you can watch, even if you disagree with them.

• 55:20Speaker 0

  You've just got to figure it out, you know, and you've just got to accept that they see the world differently to you, but you still do need to have both of those things. This is something that um Hayek uh pointed out in the Road to Surfdom, that the the dangers of totalitarianism, the reason that totalitarian societies become like they are, is not because of propaganda. In in every society there's propaganda, it's just in a liberal society, there's a plurality of propaganda pulling you in all different directions. So you're introduced to all different kinds of things. So you don't ever get okay, I only heard one thing, so I believe that's reality, and that's it, you know, because you see, it makes it so

• 55:59Speaker 1

  messy that it's almost impossible to work out what's going on. And what was

• 56:03Speaker 0

  no no, not that it makes it impossible to work out what's going on. It means it's much much more difficult to find yourself in a political cult where you've only heard one side of the story, you've never heard the other side.

• 56:12Speaker 1

  Okay.

• 56:12Speaker 0

  So you you can still, you know, you can find out what's going on from all this plurality of sources. It's just you won't be radicalized to one particular worldview or the other. Um, and it's it's not that it's not wrong for people to have their own political opinions they put out, obviously, everyone's free to do so. Um the the danger with totalitarian societies creates radicals and crazies who are zealots for the system because they only ever hear one thing, and so the other people must be evil. And our social media feeds are doing that for us, so it's really important that we remember that we're not 100% right, and we are actually kind of self-radicalizing, and we've got to try and decondition ourselves.

• 56:49Speaker 1

  We need to take everything that we read with an increasing pinch of salt, but the problem is now, as you've identified, the old bastions of truth that we would be able to rely on a long time ago, they're no longer there because they also have an agenda and they also have pressures and they also get stuff wrong, and like so again, layer all of this on top of the worst global pandemic in a hundred years and everyone being locked in the house and heightened tensions and emotions and stuff like that.

• 57:21Speaker 0

  30 people died in the Black Lives Matter protests in America. 30 people died. Like there are videos of guy, you know, this one guy got beaten unconscious, then his teeth kicked in just as he's laying on the floor, someone punts him straight in the face. And I watched that and I was like, fuck, you know, and you know, 30 police officers in London were injured at the Black Lives Matter protests, and then another 20 when the football lads went down, you know. Again, I'm not gonna say that it's only one side that's done it or anything like that, you know. But but if I were a partisan on either side, I absolutely would. And the BBC and Sky News absolutely did make it sound as if the Black Lives Matter the mostly peaceful protest that injured 30 cops, you know, like you see the video of the horse

• 57:59Speaker 1

  running down the street.

• 58:00Speaker 0

  Yeah, yeah, because someone chucked a bike and rocks at it and stuff like that, and then the woman knocks it.

• 58:04Speaker 1

  It knocks some some pedestrian over. Man, yeah, like that's that's the thing as well. Like, I feel even with this channel, like I'm I feel like I'm treading on ice with everything that I say, and I'm like, I don't know, I I want I know that I have a reasonable views. I also know that there are people out there that require sense making to be done. Anyone that's listening, the two best podcasts that I've heard on this is Sam Harris's Can We Pull Back from the Brink, which is phenomenal sense making, and the most recent Brett Weinstein and Eric on uh Joe Rogan, which was also fantastic. If you listen to those two uh pieces of content, it'll take you maybe five hours in total, I think, but you will be in full possession of a bunch of facts and a bunch of opinions, and Sam's final piece on his podcast, which I absolutely love, is where he says, Can we imagine a society in which the colour of your skin was treated the same as the colour of your hair?

• 59:01Speaker 1

  That would be an aracial society, and a race agnostic society. And to me, looking at what's happening at the moment, this is so much more divisive than it is uh cohesive, right? And the thing which makes it feel so like it was so close, or at least I felt like it was so close, right? At the beginning of this pandemic, I had uh Dr. Eric Feigalding, who used to be an advisor to the World Health Organization on really good episode, and I was just like, look, tell us about it. And the one thing that came up to me there was it doesn't even rain everywhere on the planet at the same time. There are very few things which unite humanity globally in one turn. Very few things that remind us, and there was that famous quote, I think it was um like uh one of the mid seventies presidents that said, Can you imagine how quickly we would forget all of our terrestrial differences if we had a threat from an alien civilization?

• 59:56Speaker 0

  Wasn't that Reagan who said that?

• 59:58Speaker 1

  Dunno, someone. But my My point is my point is that when you are as a species, as a as a humanity is facing this threat, you do combine together. I know what lockdown in Wuhan kind of feels like. I know what the f a little bit different, but you get my point. Like I have something in a

• 1:00:18Speaker 0

  shared human experience.

• 1:00:19Speaker 1

  Absolutely. And I was like, at the beginning of this, the first thing I thought, or one of the first things I thought was, wow, this really could be in a very bizarre sort of way, something that unites us, something that creates a globe which actually appreciates what we are as a species, you know, and just how tenuous our grasp on existence is. And it felt to me like, look, this is kind of getting there, and then

• 1:00:48Speaker 0

  Yeah, if I I that sounds too optimistic to me. I I don't I I think that worst, uh the sorry, the best that the coronavirus could have done is just

• 1:00:56Speaker 1

  delayed,

• 1:00:57Speaker 0

  and it probably did. You know, this this maybe would have happened, you know, three months ago if it wasn't for the coronavirus. Um but the the the these unresolved tensions, man. I can it's totally valid to feel like we're in sort of fall of the republic territory here, because we are. I mean, this is uh you know, probably something like crisis of the third century if we're comparing Western civilization to Rome. Uh so we've pro we've I think we probably do have a couple hundred years left to go. Uh, but I think it's evident that whatever we've been doing to bring us to this point is leading us on a path to destruction.

• 1:01:34Speaker 1

  Something's wrong, right?

• 1:01:35Speaker 0

  Yeah, something's wrong, something's deeply wrong. Um this was probably uh built into the enlightenment, uh, which I I'm not I don't relish to have to say, uh, because you know I I I'm a product of it and I believe in the ideals, but you have to be honest about the things that are going wrong, and these people are pushing for like absolute freedom, and they seem to be wanting to destroy everything that we have. It took a long time to get to this position, and it was very a lot of hard work from a lot of good people, and I'm not prepared to call them all bad people because the moral standards have changed, you know. That's and it's unacceptable. It's it what's really insulting about that is it's essentially saying that the Roman Empire's army could never have learned to use guns, right? Because we we don't like morality develops over time, you know. We there's a time where literally no one on earth questioned the institution of slavery.

• 1:02:23Speaker 0

  Why would you? What the hell are you talking about? You know, and then there became a time where people did start questioning it. Then it came a time where it was essentially like a moral revolution where we're like, no, there can't be any slavery, you know, then it then democracy comes. No, everyone should have the franchise. Why should these people it's like okay, this is great. And it's the same as developing this, you know. So we're saying that like people back in you know the the 16th century or whatever, you know, if they had been raised now or you know, introduced to our ideas, our concepts, they couldn't have believed that actually

• 1:02:56Speaker 1

  they were somehow innately deficient, that they had they had poorer morals inbuilt into them, not that they were just a product of their environment.

• 1:03:04Speaker 0

  Exactly, which is amazing for the philosophy that views everything as a political contextual battle, you know. But yeah, exactly. It you know, they are the product of their time, you know. That's what do you what do you expect? Most people end up r re representing the societies in which they've been raised, and their society had normalized moral standards that we think are terrible, and it's only because we've got a different society that everyone agrees, you know. And so it's it seems to be doing them a great disservice. It's it's awful.

• 1:03:34Speaker 1

  It's uh it's a joke at Jordan Petersonism where he talks about how um people that believe that if they were back in Maoist China or in uh Stalin's Russia that they would have done it differently, that they would have behaved

• 1:03:47Speaker 0

  differently, and it's like uh you

• 1:03:49Speaker 1

  would have to be an extraordinary human for that to be the case. And if you're a determinist, then you know.

• 1:03:58Speaker 0

  Well,

• 1:03:58Speaker 1

  yeah, yeah,

• 1:03:59Speaker 0

  but I mean but no, but that's that's exactly the point. It's like why why would you think that they wouldn't react rationally to the pressures that have been put on them, right? Because they they are they you know they get the like it's a rational reaction in the in the situation that they're in. It might not be a good one, but you'll you'll when you're in their place, you'll see why they took those decisions, and depending on the kind of person you are, you might take them too.

• 1:04:23Speaker 1

  There must be an element of this on the other side of the fence, though, on the Black Lives Matter protesters that have a a small minority who have tried to potentially hijack this movement to move it toward ends that the vast majority of people that are supporting it don't actually want, and then they're kind of getting dragged along, and they're again they're products of perhaps the the loudest, the most Machiavellian, I don't know how it works. And the main

• 1:04:53Speaker 0

  Oh no, you you're spot on. That's exactly how

• 1:04:55Speaker 1

  it works. The main problem that I can see is that without a single leader for Black Lives Matter, from a um distributed leadership, we can always continue to move forward perspective, that's great. But from a negotiation perspective, so that you can actually start to move forward productively with the rest of the world, like who do you talk to?

• 1:05:18Speaker 0

  Yeah, there's a problem with um the sort of secular religion that is become uh the the radical left wing essentially it is all an aspect of communism, I would say. Uh the the idea of borders and boundaries are problematic.

• 1:05:35Speaker 1

  The people following it don't think that. So how of course how have they adopted or how have they uh internalized this? Like who's who's giving it to them?

• 1:05:46Speaker 0

  Um people who are very clever, people who have been training for this. These this is people who've been studying for this for their whole lives. I mean, this is what Robin D'Angelo is talking about. You know, this they're they're very, very carefully thought about these things, and they're very good at laundering their ideas through other ideas that are totally reasonable,

• 1:06:05Speaker 1

  you know.

• 1:06:05Speaker 0

  We want police reform, totally reasonable. That means defund the police, totally unreasonable, you know, like there's there's a there's not only one way of doing it. Um I was gonna say something else very quickly then as well, but I've forgotten what it was. So yeah,

• 1:06:21Speaker 1

  got it. Um last thing, mate. How would you advise someone communicates now moving forward in a productive manner? Do you have a way that you try and do that?

• 1:06:33Speaker 0

  Um don't be a hero because these people are on edge. Uh there's blood in the water, and they they will come for you, you

• 1:06:42Speaker 1

  know,

• 1:06:42Speaker 0

  they'll do as much damage to your life as they can, and they'll feel justified in doing it. Um they they will ruin you if if they can. Uh so don't be a hero. Um but if it's something that's really bothering you and you you feel tremendously motivated to do something, there are lots of um people who are trying to push back in lots of different ways, and you can do your part by like you know, buying their book or buying you know the t-shirt or whatever it is that they're doing to finance themselves, because competition to the moral worldview that's being presented in Black Lives Matter and Antifa is being attacked, you know, that it's just being attacked for being in opposition to this at this point. So you the these people definitely need support, but it is also worth um trying to go past the idea of police reform because uh essentially you can be like, well, there are many ways to skin a cat,

• 1:07:37Speaker 1

  right?

• 1:07:38Speaker 0

  Like I might I might want police reform too, but I don't think defunding the police is the way to get police reform. So I'm gonna, you know, I have a different idea for that, which might be and I mean there are lots of ideas. Like uh in America, something like 70% of the police don't police their own districts that they live in, so they're from out of town that have come. That's you know, that's you can see why that would be a concern, right? So you might want police reform, so it's like you know, 70% do police their own districts or something like that, you know. So there are other ways to get um to s to resolve issues, and there are issues to be resolved. Um but I guess you know, you just have to have these very difficult conversations if you want, but you'll probably get disavowed very quickly.

• 1:08:19Speaker 1

  It's hard, man. Like I love I I absolutely adore having having nuanced conversations. This is what I would spend my entire time doing, trying to work out exactly where the truth lies. This isn't this interesting, but again, like the things that we need to talk about the most are precisely the things that we can't talk about. And it makes that's what scares me. Because I'm like, I don't know whether I'm going to say something which yesterday was reasonable and yet today is a landmine. And as you can see with we should pull this show down off TV, we should do this. You're talking about some shows like uh once upon a time in Hollywood that are a year old. You're talking about something where the rules have changed because I maybe people were up in arms, I don't know, but I didn't see people being up in arms when that film came out, it got a bunch of big accolades, got the huge director behind it, Quentin Tarantino, and blah blah.

• 1:09:12Speaker 1

  And I'm like I have conversations for a living. This is what I do for hours and hours per week, as do you. Uh perhaps you're you've slightly bigger pair of brass balls than I do. But my point is that as someone who is like a professional conversationalist, I am real scared about about some of the conversations that I want to have. I want to have these conversations because I think that they're worthy, because I think they're interesting, because we are absolutely living through history. Like, oh my god, like if 2020 isn't some history for you there, like I don't know what it is. Yeah,

• 1:09:46Speaker 0

  I I think it's probably gonna have uh a lot more written on it than the early two thousand but um yeah, no, you you are you are right. I mean this is why I've been in such consistent opposition. To this worldview for such a long time. Because it was eminently demonstrable from the small spaces in which it had taken over, that it very rapidly becomes tyrannical and imposes a kind of regime of terror on people. And lo and behold, now that it's taken over the mainstream culture, which I said that it would, I said this was coming. Now it's taken it over. Now everyone feels afraid. Like you can see people like uh Robin D'Angelo was on Jimmy Fallon the other day, and uh the top reply to the tweet that had the video in it is you look like a hostage. And it's like, yes, he does, because if he says something wrong, he's getting cancelled and he's never coming back because there's no amount of forgiving there's no method of forgiveness or penance with this religion, especially when status can be assumed by simply attacking someone who's morally inferior.

• 1:10:47Speaker 0

  You know, when you while while you can raise yourself up by doing nothing else than tearing other people down, you're never going to be safe. You are never going to be safe. That's why I've been warning about this.

• 1:11:00Speaker 1

  Um look, Carl, it's been uh a year since you were on. I have to give you as well as a parting note. I have to give you a very big thank you for coming on last year. It was a huge help to the channel, it's been a big part of the growth. Um, and I I couldn't appreciate you more for for coming back on. Uh Teespring, is that the only place that we can get you now?

• 1:11:17Speaker 0

  Uh no, no, no, spreadshirt now.

• 1:11:19Speaker 1

  You are kidding me. You got banned from a t-shirt site.

• 1:11:22Speaker 0

  Yeah, but it wasn't for political reasons. They they they I'd done a parody of a Star Wars logo. Uh well, I hadn't done it, but you know, we've done a parody of a Star Wars t-shirt. And they were like, no, no, no, that violates copyright or it might do. So we're like, okay, fine, we'll take it down. And then like two weeks later, they brought it back up again, accused me of reuploading it, which I hadn't, and then we're like, yep, that's it. And it's like, right, okay. So I don't think it was about that. I think it was actually about politics for the city. I'm telling

• 1:11:50Speaker 1

  you, the most demonetized man on the internet. Quite possibly

• 1:11:54Speaker 0

  quite possibly.

• 1:11:55Speaker 1

  So where where can people go? They want to find out more. Where should they do stuff now?

• 1:11:59Speaker 0

  They they can just um search for a CAD daily, A double K A D daily. Uh, but I'll I'll have uh something I'll have my own site in a few months, hopefully. So uh but I'll let everyone know through my YouTube channel where to go.

• 1:12:11Speaker 1

  Uh amazing. Thank you very much for your time, mate. Thanks very much, man.

• 1:12:19Speaker 0

  Yeah, all that.