Navigating The Dating Market In 2020 | Amanda Kuda | Modern Wisdom Podcast 196

Amanda Kuda is a life & mindset coach. Finding a partner that you're happy with is challenging. Add on layers of Tinder, Instagram, drunken dates & rebound sex and it's amazing that anyone manages to get into a relationship. Expect to learn Amanda's best exercises to truly identify your "type", how to find a partner who is genuinely good for you, the cheat codes for a great first date, why you keep falling for the same type of bad partners, tips for Tinder-effectiveness and much more... Sponsor: Get Surfshark VPN at https://surfshark.deals/MODERNWISDOM (Enter promo code MODERNWISDOM for 85% off and 3 Months Free) Support Modern Wisdom: To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom Extra Stuff: Check out Amanda's Mindful Dating Course - https://authenticallyamanda.com/mindfuldating Follow Amanda on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/authenticallyamanda/ Get my free Ultimate Life Hacks List to 10x your daily productivity → https://chriswillx.com/lifehacks/ #dating #tinder #relationshipadvice - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: [email protected]

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I want everyone to do a really solid inventory of everyone they've ever dated. It's so important and it's a step that many people don't do. I really, literally need you to go through every single person you've had a significant relationship with. And I want you to write down the qualities they had that are a yes for you and the qualities they had that are a no for you. You can get a picture of what are the red flags, the no's that keep coming up. When you see that pattern, then you have to do the really hard work of looking at yourself and saying, okay, what was the crazy in me that attracted that crazy five times?

• 0:33Chris Williamson?

  I'm joined by Amanda Kuda. Amanda, welcome to the show.

• 0:37Speaker 00

  Hey there. How's it going?

• 0:38Chris Williamson?

  Very good to have you here. What are we saying about the combination of blue blocking glasses and moustache at the moment?

• 0:45Speaker 00

  Um, they're, they're great. It's good. I like the look. Definitely. It's good.

• 0:51Chris Williamson?

  That's how you.

• 0:51Speaker 00

  What kind of blue blockers are those?

• 0:52Chris Williamson?

  That's how I want to start a podcast. I want to start a podcast with barefaced lies that are also compliments. At the same time.

• 1:01Speaker 00

  It's a compliment, but I'm like, how would I respond if I saw you in the real world and didn't know you? You're just some guy out on the street and I'm passing you and you have the whole this look going on.

• 1:13Chris Williamson?

  I think I look great. Someone, someone said that it was a little bit of a Freddie Mercury sort of thing going on with the moustache and the glasses. I thought a bit cooler than that. I thought like Oasis maybe, but it doesn't, you know, it doesn't matter. They're Ra Optics. So Matt Maruka, the guy from Ra Optics will be on soon, CEO and creator of the light diet. So in podcast land. Yeah. In podcast land, that may have come out before this or after this. So, you know, just it's like pick and mix. Listeners don't know what they're going to get. So, um, what are we going to talk about today?

• 1:45Speaker 00

  We are going to talk about, you know, you've had a couple of episodes about dating in the modern world, but they weren't, they didn't have a lot of tips. Like, how do you actually become a modern date or how do you actually do the thing? And I just want to jam on what are some practical slash, maybe a little out there things that you could be doing that are going to give you a like leg up in the market.

• 2:04Chris Williamson?

  A leg up being both metaphorical and physical.

• 2:08Speaker 00

  Yes, exactly.

• 2:09Chris Williamson?

  Not as, I love it. Uh, I put a post up a little while ago, I think before we knew each other. At the start of this year that said, true love in 2020 is finding someone that you could date sober.

• 2:22Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:22Chris Williamson?

  Do you think that's true?

• 2:24Speaker 00

  Oh my goodness, 100%. I mean, you know that I don't drink and that for me is a lifestyle. I don't see any situation where I'll go back to it. I know that you, you say that you might do it every now and then, right? Toggle back and forth. But I don't see anywhere where it adds to my life. And especially in dating, I have seen as a dater where it completely detracts from the situation. And even though it's a scary thing to go out into the dating world saying, I'm doing this stone cold sober. It's actually 100% a value add.

• 2:54Chris Williamson?

  What, um, what bad situations have you been in when someone's, when either you or the other person's got drunk or been drinking? Or that you've heard from your friends?

• 3:03Speaker 00

  Oh man, you know, I mean, every dating situation from my twenties on was lubricated with alcohol. So up until the time I was 32, I guess, every single flirting, dating, first kiss, first time. All of that was all drinking or drunk, right? And I just look back and I think that's completely unproductive. How did I even know if I was attracted to the person, let alone if we had chemistry or anything? And dating as a sober person is, I, well, I don't usually say sober. I say alcohol free, just because it's like a little bit of a different of a brand. But dating in that market has been so interesting. But also still, still bad experiences there. I mean, you have to negotiate, are you going to look for a partner that also doesn't drink?

• 3:47Speaker 00

  Are you going to tell the person you don't drink, which yes, you should. I can tell you a story about how that's turned out very badly. Um, and, and how do you, how do you go into this knowing that you're going to be fully vulnerable? And you're just, you're just you, that's it. You don't have any sort of, um, any sort of social lubricant to break, you know, break the, break the ice.

• 4:07Chris Williamson?

  Yes. I mean, straight off, everyone that's listening, think about the last time that you went on a date sober. Or if you've ever been on a date sober. And I, it just doesn't count, like if you needed to invite a friend to like a child's birthday party or something like that. Doesn't count because you can't get, when it's like a three, a toddler's barbecue or something. You're not allowed to drink or it's a wacky warehouse. So something that doesn't count. And you're totally right. Like, people use alcohol as a buttress for their confidence. It's this scaffolding that they wrap around their lives. And I'm totally sweet. Like, if you want to go out, you want to use alcohol and

• 4:48Chris Williamson?

  stuff to bolster your confidence, that's fine. My argument has always been, and I think will remain to be, no matter what I'm doing with regards to drinking, that unless you take a period, focus period away from alcohol, to actually work out, what are my capacities without this augmentation that is drinking, you, you never actually know where your skills lie. It's like being a powerlifter, or a bodybuilder or something, and always being on a performance enhancing drug throughout your whole career, right? You've got this performance enhancing drug, it's making you be better at the things you're trying to do, and giving you skills which technically you don't have. And you're like, right, okay, so,

• 5:29Chris Williamson?

  do you have those skills? Well, I, I do, but they're not intrinsic. They're kind of this weird combination of what I'm capable of doing with the assistance of this thing. And then you think, okay, so, you know, with taking alcohol away, giving yourself the opportunity to actually have to develop genuine confidence, to get over what's referred to in pick apart history as approach anxiety, you know, to actually develop that is a real eye opener.

• 6:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think I've even dug a little deeper into that more recently. And, and, you know, I work with women who also are either wanting to quit drinking, or they have already quit drinking. And so we have this conversation a lot. And one of the big things is, well, how, you know, how do I go into a date and be confident? What is not going to limit my, the dating pool and all of those things? And yes, but it's going to limit your dating pool to a smaller, more attractive group of people in the end. And what that, one of the things that I really dug into is, okay, what is this, like, the subliminal message you're sending to your, your subconscious when you go out on a date and you have to drink? And, okay, so if you're going, if you're going on a date, what are some reasons you might want to drink, Chris? What do you think is adding to the experience?

• 6:46Chris Williamson?

  Being honest, it's been so long since I drank regularly and even longer since I dated. Like, I can't remember. If you held a gun to my head right now and said, when was the last time you went on a date? I couldn't tell you. But thinking right, right back, it would have been a combination of, I don't know if this girl or date is going to be sufficiently interesting for me to keep energy high. I don't know if I have sufficient confidence. I don't know if I can get over my approach anxiety.

• 7:18Chris Williamson?

  Sometimes I might have used a date as pre-drinks to a night out when I might have been going out with my buddies as like a pull the rip chords, like

• 7:27Speaker 00

  Your warm up.

• 7:28Chris Williamson?

  This is, this, this date's going badly. Right. Sorry. I see you later on. That was great. And then I'll sneak off to a club or whatever. So yeah, most of those, but I think a good amount of it would be improved confidence, getting over approach anxiety, stuff like that.

• 7:46Speaker 00

  For sure. And the most common answers are exactly that. You know, you want to be more, be able to speak more freely. You want to have more confidence. You want to feel looser. You want to feel sexy or whatever those things are, you know, for men and women are probably a little bit different. But if you look at the reverse, the antithesis of that, that is saying, I don't feel my self-worth is good enough that I could possibly reach that feeling of feeling confident, sexy, engaging, interesting on my own. I do not feel confident enough in that. So therefore I need something to help me get there. And if I look at it in that perspective, I don't want to date someone who has that like hidden mindset that they do not feel confident enough that they can have a conversation with me without and be

• 8:28Speaker 00

  interesting and be interested without a substance. That just doesn't bode well for our relationship in my mind.

• 8:35Chris Williamson?

  I agree completely. This, this is a red pill that I'm actually having to do a little bit of work to get myself back to the realization. It's like, um, learning that your sleep quality is better when your phone's outside of your room and then remembering what it used to be like when you had your phone still in your bedroom. And you're like, oh my God, I actually used to do that. And it's like, I, I used to think that drinking was just par for the course with dating, whereas now that, that red pill is so far down me that I can't get it back out.

• 9:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, no. Well, and to go a step further, you know, one of the things that, one of the like, really harsh red pills we have to all swallow is that most of our parents didn't do, didn't have the ability to give us the tools to learn how to emotionally regulate properly. And this kind of, this might not seem totally related, but just go with me here. So your parents don't have the skills to say, okay, Chris, oh, you're feeling sad. How does that, how does that feel? Not to like, you know, uh, diss your mom and dad, but I'm imagining 90% of our parents didn't do this. They didn't say, Chris, you're feeling sad. I'm so sorry. How does that feel? Where do you feel it in your body? Like, tell me about sadness, Chris. And, or tell me about anger, tell me about anxiety. Where do you feel that in your body? How does it feel or process it?

• 9:49Speaker 00

  Most parents are like, oh, let me take that from you. Let me take that pain or anger and anxiety and take it on as a parent, or let me try and distract you and brush it away. Or let me tell you that, uh, big boys or big girls don't cry and you should just stop doing that. So we grow up with this. And then when you reach adolescence, we have to go out and learn to regulate on our own. And if we haven't been given the skills to do so, guess what? No worries. Society has a secret substance, like a little liquid gold for that. And so you can just drink your anxiety, your fear, your sadness, whatever. You can just take this magic elixir and it's gone. So then you're coming into the world, the adult world with really, really highly stunted emotional growth. You don't have any clue how to properly regulate yourself and your

• 10:31Speaker 00

  emotions. And I say again, do I really want to be in a relationship, either me coming to the table as that person, or me dating the person on the other side of the table that doesn't know how to regulate themselves except for with alcohol? Not really.

• 10:46Chris Williamson?

  I need to, I need to kind of wave a little bit of a flag here that it might sound to some of the people who haven't swallowed this red pill yet, or haven't gone alcohol free for a little while, like we're saying that all of you are somehow flawed and using alcohol as this coping mechanism. What we're saying is that alcohol isn't being used in a conscious way. It's not being used deliberately by you. It's not something, and there will be some people out there that just like, you know what it is? I just love a glass of wine. And it's like, yeah, yeah, we're not talking to you. Well, obviously, obviously, we're not talking to you. But the vast, vast majority of people, it's just not conscious use, right? It's not deliberate. Alcohol use on the whole, forget the dating side of stuff, alcohol use on the whole is just

• 11:30Chris Williamson?

  habituated. It's done because it's what you've always done. It's done, and it was done then because it's what everybody else did. So you've got this weird, like memetic thing going on where it's passed down. My daddy did it and his daddy before him. And you know, like, that's how my mommy and daddy have met. So I don't know, you're in Texas, I'm allowed to say that.

• 11:48Speaker 00

  Yes, no, for sure. I, I, it's not, anyone who drinks isn't fundamentally flawed, but anyone who drinks at a, like a decent level, guaranteed, you have to believe that that substance is either helping you achieve a desired outcome or avoid an undesirable outcome. And from that perspective, it's not a neutral in your life, right? You're always trying to drink it or, you know, use it to get somewhere that's more desirable than where you are right now. And that's kind of a dangerous place to be. And definitely when it comes to dating.

• 12:19Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I agree. So tell us some of the tips. What are some of the things that we can do? Cause we're, me and you, both in our 30s and both single. You, I'm not sure whether you're quite as hopeless as I am, but both very, both very single, actually hyper in lockdown, you're like as single as is possible to be.

• 12:38Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's, there's nothing out there. There's nobody, no one in my apartment complex, nothing. I'm just here. I'm just a lady with two dogs talking into a camera.

• 12:48Chris Williamson?

  Will Smith, I am legend in the shit out of it right now.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 12:52Chris Williamson?

  That's what's going on. Okay. So give us, give us some tips.

• 12:56Speaker 00

  Okay, so the first tip that I want to give everyone, especially if you find that you've continued to date kind of the same type of person throughout your history, I want everyone to do a really solid inventory of everyone they've ever dated. And that sounds a little time consuming, but it's so important and it's a step that many people don't do. So let me detail what that is. And maybe, maybe you've done it, or maybe some people listening have done it. But I guarantee that the bulk of people haven't. So when you do an inventory, I want you to go through and just make like a simple sheet of paper folded in half and put on one side like yes and one side no. And I really literally need you to go through every single person you've had a significant relationship with. And I want you to write down the qualities they had that are a yes for you and the qualities they had that are

• 13:40Speaker 00

  a no for you. And what you can do from this landscape is you can get a picture of number one, what are the red flags, the no's that keep coming up? And I would guarantee if you're thinking about it right now, I guarantee you could spot between like two or three people, what some of the same kind of no's are, or what some of the same, like, those aren't so great qualities are. And when you see that pattern, then you have to do the really hard work of looking at yourself and saying, okay, what was, what was the crazy in me that attracted that crazy five times? Like, what is the world trying to tell me? What do I need to look at that I keep getting that same scenario? Because it's not the guy or the girl, it's me. I'm the common denominator. Right?

• 14:26Chris Williamson?

  So I'm trying to think about the yeses and the good things. What's interesting for me is I'm trying to do it in my head is many of the things which I have that are common attractors amongst the girls that I've dated, also come with some malignant side effects, which are probably linked to the no's as well. So for instance, I tend to go for girls who are more type A, quite driven. Great. Like, that's good. It means that we're growth minded. It means that they're always going to be prepared to do things together. On the no side of that, it makes them incredibly disagreeable. And because I'm quite high

• 15:11Chris Williamson?

  in disagreeableness, that means that we end up clashing. So

• 15:15Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 15:15Chris Williamson?

  You need, it's, I think a lot of these are going to kind of come as pairs, right? With some of them, and it's going to be, okay, can I try and find someone who has part of the yes, but maybe doesn't have all of the no?

• 15:26Speaker 00

  Sure, sure. I know that's a really important distinguishing factor, but you also, you can get someone who is high in argument, like arguability, and also just knows how to alchemize an argument to where it's you and them against the fight against this other thing versus you against them. And that's a big difference between someone who maybe is just at the next level of, of the type, that type of person you've been dating, right? And you can only see that and see the pattern once you really get clear on, okay, here are all the lovely things about Janet, here are all the things about Janet that annoyed the shit out of me, and that I don't really want to attract in another partner, and how can I work through those things that are annoying as shit about all of my partners and ask myself,

• 16:12Speaker 00

  why am I so argumentative? Is there something that is in me that has to be right, or I'm trying to prove myself, or, um, you know, I have like this little shadow in my past that someone embarrassed me for being wrong, and that I can work through that and be a better partner myself, and then I can just stop attracting, you know, this type of specific person. And it's been really enlightening for me, like my, my specific pattern on the no, well, it's, you, you need to do this exercise in a couple of ways. It's yeses and nos, and then it's also additional qualities. So some people, when they make a list of what their partner looks like, it's like, you know, tall, blonde hair, blue eyes, whatever, they're going for physical things. And of course, I'm going to encourage you to go more for, um,

• 16:55Speaker 00

  I'm attracted to this person, right? Not like, this person has to look like this for me to be attracted to them. Can't you just write down, I'm attracted to this person? And, or they're physically attractive to me and that be enough, and that can evolve in whatever way it is, and, and how that person comes to you. But what this does is it gives you this really clear list of who you're looking for. And allows you to go back and look at, are there any stuck points here? Because let's say you're talking about, I don't know who, sorry for all the Janettes out there because I'm just gonna like go down the rabbit hole and dog on you.

• 17:24Chris Williamson?

  We've already said this before, that if your name is Janet, Karen or Sharon, right now, the internet is a terrible place to be. I watched, I watched a video the other day that was called the Karenpocalypse. Which was about all of these sort of mid 50s women, mostly American, who've been like re-released into the wild and they're just going crazy screaming at people. In like, it's always in a supermarket car park against the security.

• 17:54Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 17:55Chris Williamson?

  And then Ben Shapiro, last week tweeted, "Facts don't Karen about your feelings."

• 18:06Speaker 00

  Oh, that's so good. Yeah, also Karen, Janet. So it also allows you to go back and see if you have any unresolved feelings with any of these people. So maybe you look at Janet and you still feel a little lustrous, a little bit of like, "Oh, what if that could work out again?" Or you look at Janet and you're like, "Janet's a cold hard bitch. Like, I can't, I don't ever want to think about her again." And those are both kind of like personal red flags to me because it says that I'm still either romanticizing something about this person, or I haven't let something go. Because anyone who I feel like I have to talk crap about basically in my life, there's some, there's another thing there that I need to look at. If I can't look at a person with pure appreciation and say, you know,

• 18:48Speaker 00

  "Steve was in my life to teach me this lesson and yeah, he did also some crummy things, but I can look past those," then I, then I still have something to look at there. There's still something that's agitating me about that relationship. And just getting all of these things down on a list, reminiscing and deciding, "Okay, do I have, you know, am I romanticizing this person? Am I making them too perfect? Am I, um, am I making them, you know, kind of more of a devil character in my life? And how can I come to a neutral? And how can I take all of the things I liked about that person and say, "Hey, perhaps all of these people were brought to me to show me that these characteristics exist in individual people and that, could I just imagine for just one moment that they could all be found in one single individual?"

• 19:30Speaker 00

  And and that that's a possibility for me. And when I go out on a date that I say, you know what? This is what I said that I want. I'm not going to stay on this track. I'm not going to keep going out with this person unless they meet this list that I have. And and really just holding confidence that that could actually exist because so often we're told, no, it doesn't.

• 19:50Chris Williamson?

  Hmm. Yeah, I've got something that I really I've been thinking about a lot recently that I want to get on to to do with that. Before that, one of the things I've realized that I've done in the past is had a relationship or whatever with a girl for a while. And then it's ended either my side, her side, mutual, whatever it might be. But if I've had unresolved attraction towards her, I've then tried the next few girls that I've ended up dating or the ones that I've been putting groundwork in with. I'm like, they look, they kind of seem an awful lot, a little bit like the one from before, a little bit. And when you look at them, you're like, am I, am I, am I like just trying to recreate this guy?

• 20:32Chris Williamson?

  Am I trying to find the thing? Especially if it's unrequited, right? Especially if it's the sort of thing where it was finished by the other person. You're like, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna find her, but better. It's like, yeah. So that's one thing. Second thing that I'm thinking about is when you talk about putting stuff down on paper. First off, it's the most effective way to actually become conscious of your thought processes, right?

• 20:57Speaker 00

  Always.

• 20:57Chris Williamson?

  The reason why morning pages is such a big thing from Julia Cameron. It's the reason why morning gratitude and evening cooldown routine are important as well. Hashtag six minute diary. Everyone knows what I'm on about.

• 21:11Chris Williamson?

  But it brings up some pretty ugly stuff because if you've never done it before, you realize just how big the size of the septic tank is that all of your feelings have been swimming around in, festering. There's this weird like oily film on the top of it. And you've got to even get through the oily film before you can even get to like, and there's lumps in it. Yeah, there's lumps at the bottom. And then at the bottom, there's like sludge and you can't. Got to get a shovel out and it's very uncomfortable is my point like self introspective work is one of the most uncomfortable things in the world and the saddest part about it is that it never finishes like you never stop doing self inquiry. It's not like, oh yay,

• 21:56Chris Williamson?

  like actualized off, off I go to go and sit in the sunshine. Like that's not the way, that's not the way it works.

• 22:04Speaker 00

  Isn't that the exciting part about it though, that you get to keep, you don't just like get to this level and you're like, okay, I think that's exciting.

• 22:10Chris Williamson?

  It's, it's a bit exciting, but to me, it's also a little bit like a, an infinity game of pass the parcel. So you pass the parcel and you unwrap it and you're like, oh yay, like did a little bit more self inquiry there, like one, one level through, but you never actually get to the parcel. There's no parcel. There's just wrapping and you're like, oh for fuck's sake. You're like 70, 77 years old, having meditated for 50 years and done all the self inquiry in the world and you're just looking at it and you're like, I've just got more wrapping paper here. This is just, someone said there was a parcel inside. So, but yeah, that's, that's that final thing. My final little train of thought that I can close is from the Daniel Sloss podcast I did. Daniel's a Scottish comedian, very famous, been on Netflix and HBO and stuff

• 22:54Chris Williamson?

  like that. And he says something similar to what you've just said, which is I have standards that I want my partner to meet. Now, the problem, and this is something I'm going to put to you, the challenge that you have is most people's dating that I see, or a lot of people's dating that I see is done unconsciously. More, more people than don't, as far as I'm concerned, choose to be in a relationship out of a fear of being alone, rather than a desire to be with the person that they're with. They choose something which is the closest proxy to a person that will make them happy, rather than the person that they actually want. They're like, ah, yeah, yeah, you look, you look about, right? Like if we.

• 23:35Speaker 00

  Mr. Good enough.

• 23:36Chris Williamson?

  If we like just tap that down a little bit on the top and get enough, if I ignore this part of your personality and if I forget the fact that I've got this level of either attraction or unattraction to you and this, that and the other. But the implication of that is that if you decide to set these standards out, if you take the red pill, and if you decide to become fully conscious of all of these different things, the likelihood of you finding somebody who meets all of these fully aware criteria that you have, starts to go down quite sharply.

• 24:09Speaker 00

  For sure. Yeah. Okay. So many things to cover here. Let me wrap, let me wrap back around to the start of your comments. Oh yeah, slam that down. Um, the, the first part is, you know, re-attracting the same type of person because you're trying to find a quality that you, that you lost, that you felt was like just unrequited in another person. And I have a couple of things there. So one of my mentors, um, Gabby Bernstein, she says, "Show up for what's up, or it'll keep coming up." And it's just a reminder that you got to clean up your side of the street to stop, you know, stop attracting those things that are undesirable or that are repetitive patterns.

• 24:46Speaker 00

  But also, sometimes you just have to, I'm going to get a little like woo woo here. I don't, I, I'm a meditator. I know you are as well, but like a really specific thing you can do in that, in that situation is do some sort of a cord-cutting meditation where you just sit and you, you envision the two of you going your separate ways peacefully. You could like, you know, partner that with some sort of affirmation, like, "I'm willing to release this person and the hold that they have over me and my heart and just help me to release this like burden or this like tie I have to this person." Because it's not productive for you or for them to, to have this like emotional bond left. And you don't have to call them and say, "Hey, I'm over you." You can, you can do that work within yourself to release it, right? You don't have to have any contact with that person.

• 25:30Speaker 00

  And it feels so freeing when you're no longer chasing that quality or that person in someone else. Like, it's just this weight off of your, your shoulders. Um, so, so there's that. I would just definitely recommend for anyone who's going through that similar situation where you're kind of stuck or hung up on someone or some, a characteristic that someone had that you can't seem to replicate anywhere, to do some sort of like cord-cutting meditation. You could just Google it and find one that you'll be guided through and it'll be great. Um, okay. The next, the next thing.

• 26:01Speaker 00

  You also mentioned, you know, having higher, like just too high standards, I guess. And I, I get it, like I do, like you start to make this list of, of who is your fantasy? Like prince or princess charming, you know, whatever, whatever that looks like in your world. And it starts to become a little unrealistic and yes, you do, you may have to make some compromises of, you know, okay, so the person doesn't have to look exactly like this. Or maybe you start to get more broad because here's the thing, our little like creative minds are not as creative as the possibility in the world.

• 26:38Speaker 00

  So what I think right now that I want, I could be completely, I, that could just be part of some like weird elaborate hallmark fantasy that I,

• 26:47Chris Williamson?

  So much.

• 26:47Speaker 00

  that I've created, right? And there could be.

• 26:49Chris Williamson?

  So, so much.

• 26:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, there could be something way better out there, but I've put myself in this little box of this is exactly the person who I want to have. So you also have to like give the universe and like the powers that be some sort of creative, you know, uh, creative license here as well.

• 27:05Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, uh, the number of times that friends that I know have quite prescriptive ideas about the sort of person that they want. I always want a girl who goes to the, who's like into fitness or I want a guy who's real tall and dark and handsome or whatever it is. And it's the, the female artist or the, the dude that's actually like a low key guitar player. That's only five foot 10, like that comes in and they're the ones that absolutely annihilate them because they completely break down all of the preconceptions that they had. Um, you're, I think almost one of the reasons that we like to keep going for people that are similar and almost it's a failing of the what's your type? Question mentality is that you know what you're in for?

• 27:50Chris Williamson?

  You would much sooner be unhappy in a familiar way than risk being incredibly happy with something that's new. Because the coping mechanisms that you need to deal with the breakup of the new thing require an awful lot more learning. You're like, I, I, I don't know how I deal with the breakup with the artist girl. Like I was great at dealing with the breakup with the fitness girl, like because I did it five times. Like she was easy, but this one's got charcoal on her hands and she wears a beret and we used to go to art galleries together. And you're like, oh. Okay, so I think again, a lot of that like this is again, what we're saying like self

• 28:28Chris Williamson?

  inquiry, it's just this never fucking ending vortex of like playing past the parcel and you think, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it. There's my biases gone. And you're like, nah, mate, no, you're so wrong.

• 28:42Speaker 00

  No, for sure. It's always, it's always another, you're, I'm always learning something. Every person I date, I'm like, wow, I didn't know that I wanted that, or I didn't, I didn't know that that bothered me. And it's just this ever evolution. But that's another thing, like always, anytime you date someone, add back to that list of qualifications, because you always get something new that you're like, whoa, I really dig that about, you know, this person and how they did that, or how they got on in the world and like, keep adding on to that list, my friends, because it just, unless you have this like, long list of things that you know you like, and you know that you're not that into, you're going to go into the next situation. And then you'll start to like, oh, well, but, or you'll forget, you know, there was this one little thing that is kind of a deal breaker. And it's

• 29:27Speaker 00

  just so good to have that, to have that standing. But in, in context of dating today, you know, I think that looking at that from the dating app perspective is really interesting, because then you're just given like this visual portfolio of someone and you start to really rely on what is my type, who is that person? And I think that it's really convoluted the dating game in a really shit way.

• 29:50Chris Williamson?

  Do you use, have you, have you been online data? I mean, it's so weird when people ask that question, but I felt compelled to, I don't know why I even asked it, like, who that's single hasn't used Tinder? Like,

• 30:00Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 30:01Chris Williamson?

  You know,

• 30:02Speaker 00

  Also, is Tinder all you use there in the UK? Do you guys not have anything like higher caliber, like Bumble or something? Or do people just not use that?

• 30:09Chris Williamson?

  So I was seeing a girl about two and a half years ago, and someone made a fake profile of me on Bumble.

• 30:16Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 30:17Chris Williamson?

  She was adamant, absolutely adamant that it was actually me. And my response.

• 30:24Speaker 00

  Play this system.

• 30:25Chris Williamson?

  What? Yeah. And I was like, look, I'm telling you, I'm telling you that it's not. Sent her like swiped down from the top of my applications. I was like, look, if I type in B U M, nothing comes up, which was fortunate because it could have been like Amanda Greatbum 2019 or something like that. I was like, look, I don't, I don't have the app and she was still adamant. And I was like, right. Okay. You've decided to push the button far too far. So I was just like, look, you're going to make yourself look really stupid here. And then just became scathing. That one situation, it was maybe a, like a five minute spearhead. And then the subsequent, like two or three days of it, of it burbling down in her realizing that she was wrong. That was a traction over for me. I was like, yeah, there you go.

• 31:09Chris Williamson?

  Five minutes. You killed it. I'm off. See you later on.

• 31:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. Thanks for saving me some time, sister. No.

• 31:14Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. So like hinge, hinge and bumble and stuff like that. They are on over here. What's the, what's the premier? What's, what's like the gold standard dating app over in America?

• 31:23Speaker 00

  You know, I would say it's probably Bumble right now. Just they're, they're the hot one. But you know, the, the brand of Tinder is definitely more hookup culture. So that's not one I even play with. But I think that no matter where you're using dating apps, I, I used to, I went into it with a really bad attitude for the longest time. And you know what? When you go into something with a bad attitude, damn straight you're going to get bad results. So I would love to share some tricks that I use to kind of like game the system and use all of these things more intentionally because I guarantee if you are disciplined enough to put some of these things into practice, that you will get much better results off of whatever app you're using.

• 32:00Chris Williamson?

  I want Tinder discipline or Bumble discipline. That's what, that's what we're here for.

• 32:04Speaker 00

  Okay, got it. So, all right. So in terms of, I want to talk about a few things. I want to talk about your profile. I want to talk about some rules for engaging with people. And I want to talk about actually your rules, like some rules for using the app itself. So the first thing is, you know, if you look at a Bumble, a Tinder, whatever, it's like a social media game, right? It's an endorphin hit the entire time. And if you let yourself treat it as that, it's, that's all you're going to get in results. It's always going to be just another Instagram, another Facebook, another whatever, you know, game you're playing. And how many times have you sat down before? You get to get on Bumble or you get to get on Tinder. How how many times have you sat down?

• 32:44Speaker 00

  You just like close your eyes and meditated and said, you know, let me think about the partner who I want to like call in on this app or who I want to meet. Let me think about who that person is. Have you ever done that?

• 32:55Chris Williamson?

  Have I? No, I haven't. No, it usually it's for me. It's when I'm bored, you know?

• 33:00Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 33:00Chris Williamson?

  Or when I'm, yeah, or when I'm somewhere new, because obviously I'm far, I'm far too much of a cheapskate to pay for Tinder Pro. So like, I'll go somewhere, I'll go somewhere on holiday and use up a hundred swipes a day of like trying to. I'll be like, oh, this is interesting. Maybe she'll go. And to be fair, in my defense, it's worked out really phenomenally for meeting cool people. So I've made a fantastic friend that I'm still mates with two and a half years later from Iceland when I was in Iceland. I managed to get backstage in front of a quarter of a million people on the Fourth of July in Nashville with Brett Eldridge this year.

• 33:36Chris Williamson?

  Because because of Tinder. So it's not like it's I feel like now that you've now that you've given the hierarchy to it, I feel like I'm I'm like all seedy down here in the mud.

• 33:47Speaker 00

  A little bit.

• 33:48Chris Williamson?

  Well, I said, look, I didn't know. I okay, anyway. So.

• 33:53Speaker 00

  Well, here's the thing, though, like if you're going on Tinder, if you're going on any of these to like make friends real quick or find a hookup or whatever, you know, that's a different intentionality. But if you actually want to meet someone who's dateable, who you want to spend some time with, like, wouldn't it then, you know, make more sense to sit down and say, okay, this is my five minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes a day I'm going to devote to looking for someone who I want to date rather than I'm watching, you know, whatever on Netflix and let me pop this up so I can like scroll through.

• 34:21Chris Williamson?

  Screening through. Yeah. Well, I mean, in my defense, on those examples, in my defense, I was just looking for backstage tickets to Brett Eldridge. So that that worked out fine. That was one for one successes.

• 34:31Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 34:31Chris Williamson?

  But yeah, and again, like, I think part of the transactional nature and the easy come, easy go way that these apps are done, and also with kind of like young hookup culture and stuff like that as well. The intention isn't there for most people to use it properly. But if they actually ask themselves like, why am I on Tinder? Like, if you want to hook up, it's in terms of a time investment perspective, it's significantly quicker for you to just go on a night out in a club after midnight. Like, you'll pull far more easily that way if that's what you're after. So if you're going to put your time in on these sorts of apps, you're right. It makes sense to be like, right, okay, so why am I here? Why am I bothering to even spend my time on this?

• 35:15Chris Williamson?

  I have everything else in the universe that isn't a dating app to be doing with my time right now. Why am I here?

• 35:21Speaker 00

  Yes, absolutely. So if you, if you instead set a time, especially if you're into productivity, right? You know, if you set a time like, this is my, this is my time to look for a partner.

• 35:32Chris Williamson?

  I'm gonna put it on my Google Calendar.

• 35:34Speaker 00

  Do it, set it up on your full focus planner, my friend. Set aside your time and, and instead of like doing it in the grocery line, that's just passive, you know, time pass, it just doesn't help. So I'm not saying like this is the end all be all, but I'm just saying when I do this, I get much better results because I have said, this is what I'm showing up for, and this is what I expect to get. And it's just kind of like manifestation magic. Like, you, you get what you are, are, are game for. So be a little more intentional about the time you use. And also, when you're getting on to respond to things and when you're not, when you're checking your messages, it's just like with anything. Instagram or Facebook can become complete waste of time and just like mindless activities that you do, and so can a dating app.

• 36:19Speaker 00

  So get on at five o'clock, and this is when you're responding to messages for a while, until you switch to texting with someone, and then that's a different relationship. So that's my like number one rule is just be intentional about when you're using the app and what you're doing, because mindless activity gets you mindless results. And you know, if you're there for that, that's cool. But if you actually want a high caliber partner, you're not going to get it with just like randomly swiping.

• 36:43Chris Williamson?

  Cool, what's next?

• 36:44Speaker 00

  Okay, so, oh man.

• 36:47Speaker 00

  I I just feel so I need to teach people how to set up a proper proper profile. I don't I maybe I'm just looking at the men's side. Of course, I only get to see men's profiles. They suck. They're really bad guys.

• 36:59Chris Williamson?

  What are the key mistakes that guys make on?

• 37:04Speaker 00

  All right. So guys and girls make these as well, but I'm I'm and I've looked at plenty of my girlfriends' profiles who are doing this as well. So girls like, listen up, this is something you can improve on as well. But first of all, you get six pictures, right? You have six opportunities to show someone else what you look like. And I have some pretty strong rules for myself of what I will put there. And I think the other person should have that, too. So let me tell you, I'm going to sound a little crazy, but it works. Let me tell you. First of all, no more than one picture where you can't see your full face. So that means sunglasses hat or or you're far away. So you can have you have a picture of you with your sunglasses, but that's it. You cannot have any other picture where you're hidden because I know I need to know if I want to meet you in public, then I can pick you out in a crowded room.

• 37:48Speaker 00

  I don't want to be like, oh, is that Chris? I can't tell because he had sunglasses on.

• 37:52Chris Williamson?

  Is that the equivalent for like dog filter? Snapchat dog filter? No filters. No filters. Okay.

• 37:57Speaker 00

  Don't. Yes, you cannot use any filters like Jesus, please. The girls, you are the worst at this, like no flower crown. Just be like a picture of yourself, for God's sakes. This is that hard.

• 38:08Chris Williamson?

  Doing the flower crown or doing like the dog photo is making a profile for your girlfriends to see. It's like, unless you're unless you've selected like I'm interested in women, like, what do you? Yeah, I get it.

• 38:22Speaker 00

  I feel like and I feel like for guys, like, stop reporting that behavior. Make that a hard left. Like, don't even acknowledge it. It's just so frustrating. Who cares? Like, get your Snapchat filters out of here. Um, so basically, five of the six pictures need to be where I can see you full body. That means I don't want five pictures of you and all your bros because then I'm trying to figure out who you are. How do I know which one of you are in there? Right? I'm zooming in. I'm like, which one is he? They all need to be within the last year. Um. You need to have at least one that's like full body and not like, you know, you don't have to be like showing off your body, but at least I can see the rest of you. And, and so, and then also only one action shot. So great. You're an adventurer. You go on

• 39:04Speaker 00

  tons of vacations, but you're like a little blip out here in the snow in a snowsuit. That cool. Like, I'm so glad you're an expert skier, but I can't see who you are as a person. You could tell me. I like to ski and I could make that picture of any person in a snowsuit a million feet away in the snow, right? I don't need your visualization help.

• 39:23Chris Williamson?

  I love it. I love it. Okay. So that's, that's how we set up our profiles. We've got, we've got our little rules for, for photos. Um, you listened to the episode I did with Rob Henderson, didn't you? About the difference in conversions. So anyone who's listening who didn't listen to this, go back and check out episode with Rob Henderson on the evolution in the dating, modern dating market was like so good. Um, and in that he said that essentially girls swipe right about one in eight to one in 10 times. Um, and sometimes can go through entire periods, like entire batches of work on Tinder or whatever, without even swiping right once. Whereas guys tend to swipe in the opposite direction. They tend to not swipe like one

• 40:08Chris Williamson?

  in eight to one in 10 times. Um, the difference in conversion for guys is if you have a bachelor's degree in your bio, you'll tend to convert around about 20% better. And if you have a master's degree in your bio, you'll then convert it another 20% better as well, which, and that's like, this isn't me, right? Saying that girls only go for guys who are educated or wealthy. This is facts. Don't Karen about your feelings. Okay?

• 40:41Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 40:44Chris Williamson?

  Fact, do not Karen about your feelings.

• 40:48Speaker 00

  Also, I would posit that women put more effort into their profiles, right? They are putting up better pictures. And so I shit, I'd much rather go through a woman's like profile than men's because I get something like visual to see.

• 41:02Chris Williamson?

  There's a bit of work, yeah.

• 41:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. And so put in the work, I guarantee that statistic would change if the men were putting in more work into getting pictures. And I get it like it's uncomfortable to take, take photos. You, maybe you don't have a ton of yourself, but you have a frigging high caliber camera in your phone. Everyone has it like, ain't nobody using a flip phone anymore that has a shit camera. Like everyone has an HD camera in their hand, set up a self timer, figure it, figure it out. You can take a selfie, you can take a picture of yourself. Like those pictures can be created if you do not have them.

• 41:34Chris Williamson?

  I think so. I'm gonna, I'm gonna put a, um, a couple of caveats in as well from some stuff that I've picked up over the years.

• 41:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:42Chris Williamson?

  If you are a guy, it's a fairly good idea to have at least one photo where you're in a group that has other girls in and make the girls at least moderately attractive. The reason being that you want to look like a well-rounded guy. One, you're signaling, I am someone that other girls want to spend time with, not some total weird freak. I think you probably need to have a top line barrier of maybe 50% selfies. Like ideally, you don't want to look like a mouth breathing basement dweller who has to take, has to take all their own photos.

• 42:18Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 42:19Chris Williamson?

  So you know, like, you just, if you've got the full frame thing, even if you, like you say, if you've kind of messed around with the, um, with the self timer and like just properly phone up with some books, at least you can, you can fake having friends. So.

• 42:33Speaker 00

  That's all that's important. That's all that matters.

• 42:35Chris Williamson?

  I'm friends with these books. Okay. So we got, we got, um, the intentionality and the pre, the pre bumble meditation. We've got the, the guidance on, um, setting up your profile. What's next?

• 42:47Speaker 00

  You know, the other thing that's frustrating is just the communication factor and how unintentional some people are. And I'm sure you've had plenty of outreach on, you know, either Tinder or Instagram, or someone just says, hi, right? Or they, or even worse, like a passive like where they just like thumbs up a photo and expect that to be enough to give a, be a conversation starter. And I know girls are just as bad as.

• 43:09Chris Williamson?

  Just a gif from girls is the one. Like, if I get, if I get another one, because I don't watch Friends, I don't know who any of the characters are, but there's like some, some guy from Friends or some girl from Friends or something, this like famous Friends gif, like, how are you doing or something that's written below it?

• 43:25Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yep.

• 43:26Chris Williamson?

  And, um, like, there is an entire internet of gifs out there. The fact that I've received that gif so many times that I can recall it means like that, that gif is now outlawed for the rest of time. Yeah.

• 43:38Speaker 00

  Yep. Hear that, ladies? That's not the way to Chris's heart. Yeah, it's, it's, it's so passive. And if you wanted to meet someone organically at the grocery store, you would not exude that kind of behavior, right? You wouldn't just go up to them and like smile or randomly thumbs up. And that would be super creepy. You would say, hello, how are you? Or you'd say, hello, have you tried this quinoa before? You know, you'd ask them a question that's like relevant to the situation. You wouldn't, you wouldn't just stare at them and like.

• 44:08Chris Williamson?

  Hello, hello, do you know where, do you know where the feminine hygiene or the erectile dysfunction aisle is?

• 44:16Speaker 00

  Maybe not that one, but yes, something, something in that vein. Yes. Ask, good, ask a question. So same thing with a dating app, like ask a stinking question, ask a question and not like, not something, you know, I have, I'm not going to give away my best one because I sell that to other people. But there are some really good questions you can ask that are open ended that get to like, I care about you. I either read your profile. I'm ready to engage with you. But it's just so frustrating when you get a, hi, hello, I'm not even going to try. I'm going to put the ball back in your court because I don't have enough, you know, confidence or time to actually start a conversation with you. So always start a conversation, ladies and gentlemen, both of you.

• 44:54Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I guess even if you, if you don't ask a question, the implication of you just alerting the other person to your existence is this is now a job for you to do.

• 45:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it's it's just putting it's making the other person work super hard. So like, give us a I'm gonna use the leg up.

• 45:13Chris Williamson?

  Throws it throws a fucking bone.

• 45:14Speaker 00

  Throws a bone. Yes, you got it. You got it.

• 45:16Chris Williamson?

  Okay, what else?

• 45:18Speaker 00

  So so those are like the main rules for just like navigating the dating apps. The other things that I like to put into place, this sounds like I'm like a badass and have like all these rules, like you're never gonna get past the stone wall here, but that's not true. I'm just very, very intentional. And the other thing is when you actually are going out on dates. And I've seen so many people like really screw this up and do this a very casual way. So I'm gonna tell you, I have a three rule date, and that is nothing to do with sex. It is this, there are three dates, you have to go on three dates that are actually like meaningful dates where you get to know a person. And I actually like to look at them more as like a meetup, because if I'm just meeting you for the first time, I don't know if I like want to date you or go on a date with you if I met you on a dating app or even in a grocery store.

• 46:03Speaker 00

  So can we not just look at it as we're gonna have a casual, you know, hangout where we decide, can we be friends? And for me, that looks like you have to be able to hear the person. So you have to be at like a coffee shop on a patio or on a walk. A walk date is my like, top one favorite date all time. Like, can we just go on a walk, like move together and also have that way like silence isn't uncomfortable, it's just so much better like walk dates are my jam. And so many people, especially like to go back to the alcohol conversation, it's let's meet for drinks. Okay, so let's go to a bar, a happy hour, whatever. And it just completely convolutes the situation, not only the fact that you're drinking, but more of the factor that you're in a loud environment where you can't hear the other person, you are overstimulated by everything that's going on around you.

• 46:47Speaker 00

  And if I want to know if I want to have a long term relationship with you, I actually want to sit down and get to know you a little bit. And so my first three dates can never be bar, concert, movies, comedy show, anything that's like raucous around me, like I need to have like concentration and be able to have a conversation with a person.

• 47:06Chris Williamson?

  I love it. I can just see, I can just see the, or hear the discomfort coming from a lot of people who think, well, yeah, like that's, that's all well and good, but like, you know, that's, that just sounds a bit sort of lame or boring. And it's like, okay, so what you're saying is the people you choose to date are so uninteresting that you can't bear to be around them without something else to entertain you. Well, no, no, no, it's just not, that's, that's

• 47:36Speaker 00

  That's exactly what you're saying.

• 47:37Chris Williamson?

  If you have, if you have a visceral response at the moment to the suggestions that Amanda's making, that you shouldn't have this kind of hyper, uh, hyper stimulated, hyper normalized environment where there's loads of stuff going on. And if you've got, it's kind of just below your breast bone, kind of just above your stomach. If there's like a bit of a hot feeling there and you're finding yourself swallowing a lot, that is because it's triggering you. And that means that there's a little bit of something for you to work on there.

• 48:04Speaker 00

  Mm hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. It's just, you know, you have to look at have, and of course I've had my days where, you know, those were the fun days and those, that was, that was my twenties. That's great. And if you're still in your twenties, like just don't, you know, write this down, listen to this in a couple of years and you're, you're going to thank me so much more. Come back to this episode, pin it, flag it, do whatever. But so if you're, if you're in your twenties, just go have fun, screw around, do whatever. You deserve that time. That's like your rite of passage to do all of that. But if you're in a point where you actually value your own time and you want to have a meaningful connection with another person, you, you can't do all of these other things that just signal transaction, right? And that's exactly what any of these dates signal is, okay, I don't,

• 48:46Speaker 00

  I don't find you interesting, or I don't have enough faith in myself to be interesting that we could go do one of these other things where we're a little less like stimulated around us. And frankly, a walking date, there's plenty to stimulate you. You're going to pass other people. I mean, obviously you have to live in an environment where that's, it's warm enough and whatnot, but you're, that is the ultimate stimulation. You have things all around you to talk about people you're passing that you can comment on. It just gets your brain moving. I think that I wish I could like trademark the walking day.

• 49:18Chris Williamson?

  The walking day, the walking day is a good idea. Yeah, I like as well. There's in, I feel, I sound like someone who's just lived and breathed Neil Strauss is the game, but the only references I have from the guy's side, there isn't an equivalent for guys of a holistic approach for dating as there is for girls. There's just pick apart history, at least if you're my age. Now there is some slightly more good stuff and I'm going to give you my number one book, guys, for dating advice at the end of this podcast. So stick around for that. But there is a common held piece of advice in dating that you shouldn't sit opposite each other. If you can, you should try and sit at a right angle. So you should try and sit adjacent because it is less

• 50:01Chris Williamson?

  confrontational. It means that you're both moving in the same direction together. But the walking day is actually even a step up from that, right? That you're kind of with the person turning to them and then kind of going back to the front and then turning to them and go back.

• 50:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I like that. Yeah.

• 50:16Chris Williamson?

  A little bit of CBT going on for you there. Okay, so what we got walking day? What else?

• 50:22Speaker 00

  My dog is about to howl in the background. I'm sorry for any of you. He's taking a nap. Just woken up. Yeah, it's him. Okay, so walking day. Um, you know, I think, oh, and then really, really being clear at the end and going back and, and reviewing kind of the date that you were on and what you liked about that person and what you didn't. But even more for it, like, let me wrap back around to before the date. I know that you kind of alluded to the fact that some of your listeners, and I agree, are probably thinking, oh, well, that's really, you know, what if, what if I'm not, you know, able to talk to the person? Or what if I'm not interesting or they're boring? And all of these things, I, you have to hold in your heart that the person that you're meeting across the table, if you're going to take

• 51:05Speaker 00

  a chance to meet with them, that that could be your potential partner and you have to treat everyone as such. Like, that is another thing that's really helped me level up, especially on dating apps where it's really easy to say, like, oh, they could have just been really good at marketing themselves. But now, like, ugh, I have to go on this date with a stranger. And It's and when you go into a date with that mindset, you automatically project it to the person you're automatically held back. If you can just go in there and imagine for a second, like, yes, this could be my person, but not in like, the crazy way where

• 51:35Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, not the bunny, by the way.

• 51:36Speaker 00

  Crazy, but but that you're treating them as if they could be your person. You're not holding a grudge on them that you had to meet them on a dating app or holding a grudge that this is awkward or whatever it is that you're like really giving it your all and you want them to feel loved and appreciated on in the conversation.

• 51:54Chris Williamson?

  So that's two infrastructure based pieces of advice that kind of link in with what you just said there that I've got for guys and girls, which is if you open the funnel in Instagram or on a dating app, your first goal should be to get them off of that and into WhatsApp as quickly as possible. Like if you get past the obviously presuming that you think they're sufficiently attractive, they're sufficiently interesting, like get them off that because the platform that you are on is coloring all of the interactions. For as long as you're the Tinder girl, it you can be, you can be like the fittest, most interesting Elon Musk incarnate in female form, level of intellect girl on the planet.

• 52:39Chris Williamson?

  But for as long as you are on Tinder, you're in the gutter. And so get yourself out of that as quickly as possible.

• 52:46Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 52:47Chris Williamson?

  And with that, like, this sounds so bad, but you need, in my opinion, you need you need a scalable option to be able to get yourself off that sort of a platform. So come up with come up with a script, come up with a funny little joke. I've got mine. I can't say it because then when I when I say it to all like, you know what I mean?

• 53:07Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 53:08Chris Williamson?

  I see. This is the this is the thing. There's only there's a level of transparency that you get on this podcast, ladies and gentlemen. I always said I was going to be truthful with you, but I didn't always say that I was going to be completely transparent.

• 53:19Chris Williamson?

  But you need to just have a thing and it's like just use that. Like if something comes up naturally and you're like, oh, I really think that I should tell you about the best coffee shop in this. Let me pin you the location on WhatsApp or whatever, like kind of, but it's just, it seems so contrived, right? Like just come up with a script and use that. And like when it's like, okay, it's time to pull the pin. And if they say, oh, I don't really have WhatsApp or do whatever, everyone's got it. Shut up.

• 53:43Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:43Chris Williamson?

  And then so move them on. Okay. So we got we got the walking day.

• 53:50Chris Williamson?

  We've got the what else do we have?

• 53:53Speaker 00

  We've got be intentional with using the app when you're using it, it have a good conversation starter. Don't just be a passive conversation. Um, we have set up your profile, you know, put some intention to it. Don't just like jack around and put the net, the first five pictures on your phone or find, you know, that's, that's just a big one. Like be intentional with your profile. Everyone, if you are, are trying, you're on a visual service, you have to have a visual profile that's pleasing. It doesn't mean you have to look like a supermodel, but we just have to see what you look like and who you are. And, um, and then just have a little bit of,

• 54:28Speaker 00

  of hope for who you're meeting and what, what's happening there. You know, if you look at, at dating apps, just like I have as at some point of like, oh, this is just shit. Everyone's on here. It's just the same old thing over and over, then you'll get the same old thing over and over. And that's not the result you're wanting. If you want a better result, like put your mind to the possibility that it could be in there. Um, or just, you know, this sounds, well, no, it sounds masculine to me. It sounds harsh coming from a woman, but one of the things that I tell my clients is if you don't like dating apps, at least use them for practice. Like you have an endless pool here of dates you can go on and completely fuck up. And then just move on to the next person. Right. Like at least get yourself some confidence and go out on these random dates. And then when you meet them in the grocery store on the quinoa aisle, you'll have, you know, the confidence

• 55:13Speaker 00

  because you've already had all of these conversations.

• 55:14Chris Williamson?

  Feminine hygiene and erectile dysfunction aisle. Yeah, exactly. Um, so I got, I got a couple of things that I've come up with recently, actually that have popped into my head. So, um, one of them is another concept from pick apart history, which is called assume attraction. And assume attraction is exactly as it says on the tin that you are the prize. So that's the subheading. Assume attraction is the concept and you are the prize is the subheading. What it means is that you need to go into a, a situation with, it doesn't matter how hot the other person is or how interesting or how intimidating the other person is. You know, all of your uniqueness, your quirks, all of the different life experiences that you have,

• 55:53Chris Williamson?

  that makes you incredibly unique. And this person is just Jonathan or Leanne or whatever it might be. Like they're just a person. You are you, you have. All of these real, different, colourful, interesting things, even if you think that you're boring as hell, you're not because you've got 20, 30, 40, however many years of experiences behind you, you are the prize. And if you go into the situation with that in your mind, it will come across in the way that you project yourself. It will also make you a lot less worried about failure or about being rejected. So for instance, my life comes first and then you will attach on to the side of that. You are the prize. And it's the equivalent. I've got a friend, Alex O'Connor, been on this podcast. He is

• 56:37Chris Williamson?

  a big atheist podcaster and he sat down with Richard Dawkins, the guy that created new atheism. And I was like, dude, he's only 20 years old, this kid. He's a freak savage, crazy clever, Oxford uni, doing philosophy. And I was like, well, you're not worried? Are you not like nervous or whatever? And he was like, no, no, I was nervous for Richard. Like, he's fortunate to get to sit down with me. Yeah, like my podcast is the thing that he's here to be on. I'm not here to be on his show. He's here to be on my show. And as soon as he taught me that, and I was like, holy shit. And now every guy like Ben Greenfield came on here. And I was like, ah, it's fortunate for Ben to be on my show. Ryan Holiday has just confirmed to be on this podcast. I'm like, oh, that's going to be fun for Ryan to be on this show. You know, like, and that going into it, even if it's, you know that

• 57:19Chris Williamson?

  you're kind of gaming it a little bit, there's your thoughts become the intentions quite quickly. And you're like, yeah, actually, I am, I am like a bit of a badass. Like, there's no reason that I shouldn't be like owning this girl who drives a 911 is in penthouse and all this stuff. You know what I mean?

• 57:36Speaker 00

  Right, right. Exactly. No, that's, that's a great perspective to take because if you don't, then you, you're coming to it from the perspective of, I don't have enough. So I have to find that extra something that I don't have within you. And that's never, it's never going to work. You're always picking based on an emptiness that you have that you think the other person can fulfill.

• 57:57Chris Williamson?

  100%. Okay. So that's, that's, that's my, that's my first thing. Yeah. Assume attraction and you are the prize. I've already said, like, get yourself out of the app. And this goes for guys and girls. I also think that this is why Instagram is a underused or is a better to use dating app than Tinder is. Obviously, you can't refine your search criteria as efficiently, but you get to see a lot more of the other person. You can work out mutual connections more effectively. And also, you're never going to be like the Tinder girl or the Tinder guy. You'll just be the Instagram girl or the Instagram guy, which again, actually it just raises that level of conversation up just a little bit more. It makes you think, ah, well, this is, this is kind of, kind

• 58:40Chris Williamson?

  of a little bit more normal. I said that I was going to give my, my favorite book. And this would be really cool for you to actually get most common dating errors that you see from guys and girls, and then any resources and stuff like that. And obviously, like your own stuff for sure. Sure. But for me, for girls, I'm sorry. I think on the whole, I think girls are pretty good daters. I think that you're always going to say this, right? But like, I think that guys, guys just suck at dating. Like I, I'm friends with too many young lads to know, to even believe that guys are competent at dating. They just suck. Right. Yeah. And like, there's some guys are pigs, including me at times in my past, not now, obviously, Angel, but. Of course.

• 59:25Chris Williamson?

  My, my favorite book, Models by Mark Manson. So it's the first book that he ever wrote, and it was how to attract women through honesty, which has, depending on where you're coming from, it, looking at it, it could be like a real mincy kind of like fluffy title or a really transactional, like that's kind of mean title. But it's, it's just how do you as a guy maximize who you are to a girl? It lays out a really robust framework of neediness, which he thinks is the prime driver of attraction in relationships, how needy one person is and how the other is. And it maps pretty accurately.

• 1:00:06Chris Williamson?

  To reality. So Models by Mark Manson. If you listen to the audiobook, there's an updated version, which is about six hours long on Audible and it is, it's awesome. I'll link it, it'll be, I'll, I'll put it in the show notes below. In fact, Mark Manson, I'll put it in the show notes below if you want to go and pick it up. Bonus round, David Dada, The Way of the Superior Man. Now that is a little bit more woo wooey. It talks a lot about masculine and feminine energies and stuff. Probably an interesting read, more of an interesting read for girls than Models is. But Way to Superior Man very much talks about how as a man you should be, the principles that you should be leading your life by, basically. There's some intergender dynamics and some relationship stuff in there, but

• 1:00:49Chris Williamson?

  there's other stuff to do with how you deal with relationship and career challenges, how you deal with moving into a new epoch of your life and all this sorts of stuff. So that's my, I don't have a big, a big repository of dating advice, which potentially I should do, given the fact, as I've said, that I'm, my dating life is sort of fairly terrible. But I'm going to give the floor to you. So what, first up, what are the main errors you see girls making when they try and date?

• 1:01:18Speaker 00

  I think it is being either too agreeable, like I just have to give everything to this person. I'll do whatever this person wants. I'm going to completely change who I am or act a different way. And just not standing in your confidence and your worth and, and feeling like you have to change or show up in a certain way to be what that person wants or desires or needs. Um, I, you know, that, it's just, it's just part of the way that we women are brought up and, but you can reprogram it. If you notice it, you can reprogram it. Um, and oh geez, what are some other ones? I think leaning to, not leaning too far towards your masculine or your feminine side, right? Um, I think that that can be.

• 1:02:02Speaker 00

  In relationships for women, that can be something that's a little bit detrimental because either you're trying to like stand your ground and say, no, I'm this person. You have to, you have to do whatever I want. And then you, you're just a bitch. Or you are the other way and you're too agreeable to someone, or you're always like, that's more of on the, in the psychology side, that's more of you're the, you're the, oh geez, I'm losing my words now. You're the anxious attached person, right? You're like, you'll do whatever that other person wants because you need their love from them so bad.

• 1:02:33Chris Williamson?

  Neither of those polarities are actually that enjoyable to be around as a guy. I can't, I can't speak about what guys are like in that relation for girls, but as a guy, it feels like whoever it is, is playing a role. Now that could be your true personality. You could be the 99th out of 100 agreeable person, or you could be the 99 out of 100 disagreeable person. That could be you. But the fact that there's so little nuance to the way that you operate, the fact that like, everything that I say is rebutted with, well, I don't agree with that.

• 1:03:15Chris Williamson?

  I don't think that that's right. Or like a scathing comment, or you know, like, whatever it is, if it's just, if I can ask you a question, this is, this is the fucking heuristic. I've worked it out. This is the heuristic to use. If I can ask you a question, and I can predict your answer before you answer it.

• 1:03:35Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:03:36Chris Williamson?

  That's it. And think about, think about some of the people that you've spoken to recently. If you're single, obviously if you're not single, like get off this, get off this podcast. Like your partner will find out. But yeah, think about the, the last few people you've been speaking to. Like, can you predict their answers? Can you ask them a question? Or said, like, say something, make a statement to them? And can you kind of ballpark guess where their answer is going to be? And if they can, if you can, like, What are you doing? Like, that's the same. That is the same as dating a ventriloquist's dummy.

• 1:04:07Speaker 00

  Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. For sure, man. And, and it just shows, it just goes to show that that's that person saying they're marrying what they think is going to be satisfying for you, right? And sorry, you've heard it before. Like, guess what? We, we've both been in that, in that situation. And it's so bullshit where we're just performing for the other person. And when you find the person that is your person, I just have to believe that it's like two fingers, like folding hands, if you can't, if you're not watching video, it's like you're folding your hands in prayer. They just like fit together. And you don't have to do this like performative bullshit that you've been doing your entire life. And, you know, I'll, I'll just wrap back to what I said in the first part that I really want to drive home, that if you find that you are keep continuing to attract the same type of person, you have to ask yourself, what is

• 1:04:52Speaker 00

  it that person is mirroring to me that I'm supposed to be seeing that the universe is like, hello, sister, or hello, brother? Like, we've shown you this five times. We're reflecting right to you what you need to friggin fix in yourself. And you are ignoring it time after time. Like, if you keep attracting that same frustrating, undesirable, you know, deal breaker characteristic, ask yourself how that is in you or how you're asking for that because it's safe.

• 1:05:17Chris Williamson?

  It's you. You hit the nail on the head before that you are the common denominator.

• 1:05:21Speaker 00

  Absolutely, you are.

• 1:05:22Chris Williamson?

  So, reading Mark Manson's models, there's two red pills that are, they're so large that I almost couldn't swallow them. So, the first, the first one was, it was essentially that, that you are the common denominator in all of your relationship failings. Like, people that say, guys that say, and I've been, I've been like, subject of this as well, I, I do it, I did it, where you say, all of the girls in my town are bitches.

• 1:05:53Chris Williamson?

  All of the girl or every, the entire female population in your town, that all of them are bitches. Yes. Hmm. No, no. It, all the girls you meet are bitches or all of the girls respond to you in a way which makes them seem like bitches. That is the trick. And that's the same for girls as well. If you say, oh, do you know what it is? All the, all the guys in, in my city, they're just all fuckboy. I need to move to, it's Italy. Like if I was in Rome, none of this. And that's the, that's the myth. The myth is I've got to move out of my small town, big city, whatever

• 1:06:35Chris Williamson?

  country it is, to find myself ex, a guy that has this, a girl that does that. They're just not open minded enough. They're not free flowing enough. They're too this, they're too, they don't have any dreams. They don't have any goals. You're like, you are the common denominator here. And yeah, fuck, that hurts to swallow. Like the fact that you are the architect of your own misery.

• 1:06:55Speaker 00

  It is. Well, that reminds me of, I'm going to give you two examples because I know we probably need to wrap up. But for that, I will say, as someone who has moved across state, you know, two states away to kind of like reinvent my life. The thing that you have to remember is wherever you go, there you'll be. It's one of my favorite quotes because you cannot get away from yourself and your own self.

• 1:07:15Chris Williamson?

  I brought it with me. I thought and left.

• 1:07:18Speaker 00

  Thought it was gone. No. And you know, something that's a little bit nuanced about doing this inventory of who you've dated before. I will tell you the thing that I found that was a common denominator that was weird and it really made me have to do a lot of self-reflection. So some of them can be quite obvious, but some of them you might have to dig a little deeper. And one for me was every man who I've had a significant relationship with, he has been just recently coming out of another significant relationship unwittingly done by me. Like I wasn't sitting there like, oh, you just got out of a relationship? Great. You're freed up. Let's go on a date. That wasn't my MO. Some of it I didn't even know until we were involved, but there was something in me that as like a fixer or something was attracting someone who needed to feel safe

• 1:08:00Speaker 00

  or needed to, you know, whatever it was that they were looking for, haven't quite deconstructed that yet. So listeners, if you, if you want to help me out here, do that. But there's, that's mind blowing. Like every person coming out of a significant relationship. And so that just says there's something in me that I need to work out that is, stops attracting that. And so I have a book for that. So let me tell you my book recos. So one is it's not a dating book at all. Guys and girls could use this. Um, men and women, you might even say for the older crowd listening. It's called Dark Side of the Light Chasers, and it is all about shadow work. And I think that your listeners are probably self actualized enough to do this type of work.

• 1:08:40Speaker 00

  And it's really just rolling down to what are those things in my psyche and my, and my own self identification that I am hiding from and avoiding that if I could face it, I could really change what I'm attracting in my life. And, you know, for me, I think that if I can solve that one, I'll know why I attracted all of these guys that are just out of a relationship. But it goes into so many other areas.

• 1:09:03Speaker 00

  Then two other books I'll recommend just on just really getting yourself in the right place. Women, um, one that I really love is a book called by Marianne Williamson called, um, A Woman's Worth. Super good, um, book for gals. It's a really short read too. It's like a teeny tiny book. And then just for everyone in terms of personal development and impossibility. My favorite book ever is Power of Intention by Wayne Dyer. And that's what started my personal development journey, and I can't recommend that enough as just like an eye opening look into self actualization.

• 1:09:34Chris Williamson?

  I haven't read any of those. I hadn't heard of any of those.

• 1:09:37Speaker 00

  Maybe don't read A Woman's Worth. You probably could skip that one, but the other two you need to read.

• 1:09:42Chris Williamson?

  Okay. Yeah, that's, that's awesome. It's so cool when you find like, when you hear from someone, this is the book that changed my life. And you're like, I, I didn't even know that it existed.

• 1:09:53Chris Williamson?

  Wow. Um, oh, so here's my, here was the second red pill, actually. We'll, we'll finish on that. And then I want you to tell everyone where they can check out your stuff because you're awesome.

• 1:10:03Chris Williamson?

  The second red pill that I had to swallow was to do with state changes and the sense you have and the excuses that you make.

• 1:10:17Chris Williamson?

  Before meeting someone, going to spend time with someone, perhaps going home with someone, and it's a defense mechanism, it's an evolutionarily programmed defense mechanism. And the reason it hurt me so bad was because I've been reading tons of Eve Sike recently, evolutionary biology, and I thought I had this stuff down. And I was like, I understand why pride's there. Holy shit. I understand why I feel good when I'm working. And oh my God, I understand what loneliness is. That's what that is. And blah, blah, blah. And then it's like, oh no, this is so much more pervasive than you thought. It is everything. So that basically, if you are a guy or a girl, and you can think back to a time where

• 1:10:59Chris Williamson?

  perhaps you have been having either a serious or a casual encounter with someone who's either existing or new, probably actually not only someone who's new, or realistically only someone that's new, and you felt some sort of resistance come up in why you shouldn't go over to their house, let them over to your house, go on the date, do the thing. And the front of your brain has given you this really logic, well, maybe I'm just not that attracted. Oh, I'm so tired. I got this knee ache. I got this like, it's real, it's man, it's the outside of my knee, you know, like the kind of the back, like you just

• 1:11:39Chris Williamson?

  come up with these things. You rationalize these reasons. But it's not, it's like you are attracted to this person. You were attracted to this person previously. You've been attracted to them for ages. Maybe you've even thought about getting physical with them in the past. Why now are you somehow talking yourself out of it? And it is this fear of state change. We like being in the cave that we know. Yes, we know, we know this cave's safe. The one next door, that might, that might be a saber tooth tiger in there. Fuck that. I don't want to go in there. It's like, yeah, there's not saber tooth tiger in there. There is just a guy or a girl in a bed. And you need to be aware of that. You need to know, right?

• 1:12:22Chris Williamson?

  Okay. Am I saying I'm not attracted to them? My knee hurts too much and tired. Work's going to start in the morning. Or is it, is that because you have a fear of going to see them? Or is it more genuine than that? Is this, okay, rubber meets the road time now? Like, I really need to work out whether or not I'm sufficiently physically attracted to them. But I like, looking back, the number of times where, and you think like, oh, guys should just be hot to trot all the time.

• 1:12:50Chris Williamson?

  The number of times where I've been like, ah, some excuse on WhatsApp. I like, because, don't know, didn't have, didn't have a reason, just did it, just did it. And I'm like, and I was in Tesco car park, Tesco car park in Kent. And it was only a couple of weeks ago when I listened to this bit of models from Mark Manson. And I, I was like, walking around in this daze, reflecting on all of the different times where I've done that to myself. I'm like, oh, you dick, you absolute dick. Like, just talking to my, my own amygdala, like, just trying to speak to the base of my own brain, like, ew. And it just had me, I was like, that's it.

• 1:13:33Chris Williamson?

  I've said, I've come up with so many excuses, so many times, I don't, I can't see you, don't want to see you, won't do this thing. Or I'll, I'll just say what happened in the time, or whatever it is. And it's just fear of change, that's it.

• 1:13:44Speaker 00

  Right, yeah, the misery that you're in is, is more, you know it, you know what that feels like. So it's much better than like, the misery that you could be in somewhere else that's unknown. One more book recommendation then for that with relationships. This is an old school book, but it's still super relevant. It's called Conscious Loving by Gay and Katie Hendricks. And they discuss kind of like, pleasure limits and upper limits that you have in your relationship where you won't like, oh, well, if I let myself achieve happiness, then it's only that easier to get like, dragged back down and be hurt again. It's, it's a really good book. It kind of focuses on people in relationships, but you can still read it as a single person and get a lot out of it.

• 1:14:25Chris Williamson?

  That's awesome. Amanda, this, this has been really fun. We've been talking about doing it for ages, I want to get you back on. So, girls think that you're cool, they want to work with you. I know that you own, do you still only work with girls at the moment?

• 1:14:37Speaker 00

  I only work with women. Yeah, it's just easier for me, honestly. And I work with women who specifically are alcohol free or sober curious. If you want to hear more about the dating stuff that I'm into, I have a whole course on dating. Honestly, guys could purchase it too. I just wouldn't work with you one on one. The dating course you can find on my site authenticallyamanda/mindfuldating. And it's, it goes through everything we went through here, but in so much more detail of how I want you to be intentional, how I want you to grow and improve your self-worth. So you can be the partner that you want to call in. And then how you interact on dating apps and in the world, real world, how to set up your profile, like all that stuff. It's all like laid out in there with plenty of exercises and explanation.

• 1:15:15Chris Williamson?

  You got all the cheat codes in there as well, all the best opener, all that sort of stuff.

• 1:15:18Speaker 00

  Yes, my best opener, it is in there. Never fails, never fails.

• 1:15:22Chris Williamson?

  That's so good. Look, Amanda, everything that we've spoken about, Amanda's fantastic socials will be linked below. I can't, I can't sing your praises enough. You've been awesome. You've been doing some cool stuff recently in the sober community. And it's so nice as well. Like I think we've both spoken about this privately, but to see someone who is from that side of the community, but also is really pushing the envelope in other areas like, okay, so how can I, how can I use the insights that I've gained from my personal development and my growth to make girls better at dating or to be better wives or better mothers or whatever it might be. It's, it's so sick. If you've enjoyed this episode, tell me and I'll get Amanda back on. We've got, as you can tell, we're just like buddies chatting away. So, you know, we can do this all day. Amanda, thank you so much for your time.

• 1:16:07Speaker 00

  Oh, thank you. It's been such a pleasure.

• 1:16:21Speaker 02

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