Michael Malice - The Corporate Press Are Losing Control

Michael Malice is an author, political commentator & podcaster. No matter what your political affiliation, the ferocity of the press's approach to any story right now is quite intense. The volume seems to only get louder and louder as they try to maintain the attention that 2020 gave them. I wanted to ask Michael just what is going on. Expect to learn what Michael thinks about the Canadian truckers' protest, whether Whoopie Goldberg deserved cancelling, why ambient anxiety is the outcome that the media wants, what's happening with Ukraine and Russia, how Michael ended up in Tesla's Giga Factory at midnight, whether we're over wokeness and much more... Sponsors: Join the Modern Wisdom Community to connect with me & other listeners - https://modernwisdom.locals.com/ Get 15% discount on Craftd London’s jewellery at https://bit.ly/cdwisdom (use code MW15) Get 20% discount on the highest quality CBD Products from Pure Sport at https://bit.ly/cbdwisdom (use code: MW20) Get 83% discount & 3 months free from Surfshark VPN at https://surfshark.deals/MODERNWISDOM (use code MODERNWISDOM) Extra Stuff: Buy The Anarchist Handbook - https://amzn.to/2ReU6zH Follow Michael on Twitter - https://twitter.com/michaelmalice Get my free Reading List of 100 books to read before you die → https://chriswillx.com/books/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom #media #michaelmalice #control - 00:00 Intro 01:18 Michael’s Thoughts on the Canadian Truckers 12:21 Increasing Victimhood in Society 16:50 What is Happening in Russia & Ukraine? 27:12 Whoopi Goldberg’s Holocaust Comments 33:58 The Media are Worse than the Government 39:13 The Dark Side of Corporations 54:30 What is the Agenda of the Press? 59:39 Touring Tesla with Elon Musk, Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson 1:06:38 Where to Find Michael - Join the Modern Wisdom Community on Locals - https://modernwisdom.locals.com/ Listen to all episodes on audio: Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Michael Malice?

  This is what conservatives get wrong. Conservatives are think that the enemy are the Labour Party or the Democrats here, and we're gonna kick Joe Biden out of office, or we're gonna beat Jeremy Corbyn, blah, blah. That's not the issue. Jeremy Corbyn is the tail. Joe Biden is the tail. The corporate press are the dog who are wagging that tail.

• 0:19Chris Williamson?

  Michael Malice, welcome to the show.

• 0:21Michael Malice?

  Thank you so much, Chris.

• 0:23Chris Williamson?

  How are you? Are you missing me?

• 0:25Michael Malice?

  Enormously. I text you all the time. I'm very back.

• 0:28Chris Williamson?

  Yes. Well, I'm back this week. You'll have me this week.

• 0:30Michael Malice?

  That's phenomenal.

• 0:31Chris Williamson?

  Can't get rid of me. And then I'm going to see Jordan, Jordan Peterson, over in San Antonio. What's San Antonio like? I've never been.

• 0:37Michael Malice?

  It's very corporate. It's, it's, um, it almost feels like an eighties movie because there's all these tall buildings. There's one cool little river that runs through the city, which is fun to kind of the river walk. But other than that, it's very much a concrete kind of edifice. And San Antonio is a much bigger population, in my understanding, than Austin. But there seems to be a bit of a, um, solace to it.

• 1:02Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, that's kind of what I got from the outside, that it's, um, it's definitely a bigger sort of downtown area than Austin. Boston's so distributed. We went for a walk through the burbs of Austin for two hours, and you realize it just stretches on and on and on and on.

• 1:16Michael Malice?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:17Chris Williamson?

  It's crazy. Have you been keeping up to date with the Canadian truckers protest thing?

• 1:23Michael Malice?

  Oh, yes. Not as much as other people, but most certainly.

• 1:26Chris Williamson?

  The honking will continue until freedom improves.

• 1:30Michael Malice?

  So, yeah, I had this, um, chapter in my book, the new write, that says meme magic is real. And I'm sure most people listening have seen on social media that, uh, you know, in the last year or more, certainly, there's been this meme of clown world, where people say something that's perfectly ridiculous, and they're responded to with, uh, you know, a green clown pressing his nose. Or there's another meme where it's a lobster claw, holding a clown nose, saying, here, you drop this. So that had been a thing. And now, literally, they're literally honking. And there's people on Reddit having meltdowns, saying like, I can't sleep. This is terrorism.

• 2:11Chris Williamson?

  Yep.

• 2:12Michael Malice?

  And you're exactly right, the honking will continue. And the thing that's, I've made this point several times, and I'll make it again here, especially with a British audience, that there is a misconception by conservatives, and I mean, American conservatives, I don't know about Tory conservatives in the UK, but that, you know, in America especially, there's different groups that progressives latch on to, to further their agenda. It's Muslim immigrants, it's transgender bathrooms, one month, or whatever, so on and so forth. And the point I always beat into their heads is, they don't really care about these groups. This is just whoever is a useful tool at the moment. And as soon as that group is defiant in any way, they're thrown into the rubbish bin, as you'd say.

• 2:55Michael Malice?

  And the best example of this is, you know, here we have the centre-left party is the Democrats, obviously. There you guys have the Labour Party. But as soon as Labour starts being defiant, all of a sudden, they're Nazis. And it's just a fascinating phenomenon to see. And I think it's just completely transparent, how your measure of virtue as an interest group is directly correlated to how useful you are to furthering a certain agenda.

• 3:23Chris Williamson?

  Dude, that's so nailed it. Like, it's so transparent.

• 3:27Michael Malice?

  There's one more thing. Isn't that also what broke down the so-called red wall in the last election? That these districts that had been red, Labour's, red is more correctly than here, we have here, red is Labour over in the UK. These were Labour districts for, I think, almost a century that went blue.

• 3:46Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, and places like Hartlepool and Blythe, that are both near me and where I've grown up, they are Labour strongholds. Pitt Village, my granddaddy was a miner, and he hated Thatcher. And my daddy was a miner, and he hated Thatcher. That ran on for a long time. And then, you know, the left appears to be very much a sort of bourgeois, faux-intellectual, this sort of middle class looking down on the underclass and the working class movement at the moment. And you're right, it's whoever's convenient. This is what Bridgette said the other day, but she was actually taking the shot from a different angle, talking about people that are on the right, who are saying, we care about women's rights because of these trans people that are encroaching on them. She's like, you don't care about fucking women's rights?

• 4:29Michael Malice?

  Right, you're correct.

• 4:30Chris Williamson?

  You don't care about them at all.

• 4:32Michael Malice?

  It most certainly goes both ways, yeah.

• 4:34Chris Williamson?

  It's just a convenient.

• 4:35Michael Malice?

  But there's a certain irony in calling yourself Labour and then telling people that the unions are Nazis.

• 4:42Chris Williamson?

  What is it in Canada? What's the, have you got any idea?

• 4:44Michael Malice?

  It's the Liberals.

• 4:45Chris Williamson?

  Right, okay.

• 4:46Michael Malice?

  So they have the Liberals, which is the centre-left party, they have the Conservatives, which is fairly recent because the progressive conservatives had imploded in the 90s. And then they have a party to the left, which is, what are they, the New Democrats, I think they're called?

• 4:59Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, NDP.

• 5:00Michael Malice?

  So they're always like, what's that? The NDP, yeah.

• 5:05Michael Malice?

  So they're the real, like, hard leftists. And there's also the Green Party, of course.

• 5:10Chris Williamson?

  But Trudeau has disappeared like Saddam. Did you see that? He's like, fucking gone off.

• 5:15Michael Malice?

  My understanding was he was on US soil.

• 5:18Chris Williamson?

  Maybe.

• 5:19Michael Malice?

  Yeah, I said that he should be, if he's on US soil, they should send him to Gitmo.

• 5:23Chris Williamson?

  But let's not forget that he has Covid. So one of the problems that they've got at the moment is that truckers, 90% of whom are vaccinated, aren't agreeing to a vaccine mandate about crossing the border. Because presumably, America is concerned about people with Covid crossing the border. And Trudeau, a man who has Covid, has potentially fled Canada due to security concerns about this truckers protest into the US.

• 5:47Michael Malice?

  Well, in his defence, if you've got a convoy full of Nazi truckers, as a black man, he's going to have to kind of do a reverse Underground Railroad.

• 6:00Michael Malice?

  Because they'll see his skin and they'll judge him accordingly.

• 6:09Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, they got accused, everything happened, right? First off, it was that they were, actually, everyone seemed to be kind of behind it, you know, it was a peaceful protest, very polite. And then as it picked up speed and you realised that the mainstream media was just going to start throwing every ism and ist that they could.

• 6:25Michael Malice?

  Well, first they said that they lied. There was the Canadian news outlet, that's from New Brunswick, I think it was, where they're saying that they're protesting their working conditions. So they just completely lied about what they were protesting. Um, then a couple of days ago, GoFundMe, as I'm sure people saw, just decided to seize all the money and said, we're gonna send it wherever we want. And that was a huge backlash. And they had, they actually refunded instead of seizing it.

• 6:53Chris Williamson?

  Oh, has that happened? Because I thought that they seized it and said they were giving it to particular worthy causes.

• 6:59Michael Malice?

  It's been resolved. It's because, because they have something called, I think the issue was if I, I double check me, because this is kind of, you see things on Twitter, it's kind of like Plato's cave. But my understanding was you're, people were gonna call and ask for chargebacks. And when that happens, they're hit for each one with like a $15 fee. But also, the public shaming was enormous. And I know some politicians got involved, like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you don't get simply to just, oh, you know, I'm contributing to the trucker as well. That's null and void. So this is gonna go to, you know, Greenpeace.

• 7:30Chris Williamson?

  Whoever the fuck we want. Yeah. There's a quote here. "Organizers provided a clear distribution plan for the initial 1 million." This is from GoFundMe's statement that was released earlier this week and confirmed funds would be used only for participants who travel to Ottawa to participate in a peaceful protest. Given how the situation has evolved, no further funds will be directly distributed to the Freedom Convoy organizers. We will work with organizers to send all remaining funds to credible and established charities verified by GoFundMe. All donors may submit a request for a full refund until February 19th. So that was, they were giving people two weeks to get on and order a refund. But it seems now because of the backlash that they've just done all of it. Which, I

• 8:11Chris Williamson?

  mean, it's strange that that somehow feels like a victory. Because the anchoring point has been set. So, oh, at least they didn't steal it and give it to another charity. Well, no, they shut it down and didn't give it to the people it was supposed to go to.

• 8:22Michael Malice?

  I would just say, I would say the victory here is that their machinations are made public. Because this permanently establishes the brand as ideologically driven. It would be one thing if they had said disingenuously that we're not giving this to the convoy because the convoy is being run by white supremacists and we stand against white supremacists. It would be a brazen lie, but that would be something that would make sense. This is just, they said, "Well, it's not organized, it's no longer classified, by whom, as a peaceful protest, it's classified as an insurrection. Therefore, we can't take part in insurrection." Great, send the money back. But I think this is a very healthy and necessary

• 9:05Michael Malice?

  step forward in our cultural bifurcation. And there's one, what's really funny is there's an enormous movement that's insisting that everyone take sides. And this has been going on at least since 2015. And the sides are the good guys or the Nazis. And then there's plenty of people who are saying, "Screw you, I'm not with you." And they don't, but we said, "If you don't side with us, you're Nazis." Like, cool story bro. And therefore, they're forcing people to view things as in-group and out-group. And that's causing the out-group to form alternative mechanisms. And then they're pulling their hair out. It's like, "How dare you? You're supposed to be in our group as subordinates." So this is something that's going to happen increasingly,

• 9:51Michael Malice?

  and it's something that needs to happen. And the idea that there's one agency, whoever it is, who gets to define, you know, "These riots are peaceful, and, you know, these truckers are insurrectionists, and, you know, it's very clear how the cards are going to fall." I'm shocked to how quickly people have grown wise to how the game is played. Because you don't have to have any opinion on Canada or the truckers or really GoFundMe to know how this movie plays out.

• 10:26Chris Williamson?

  Is it not more hatred of the working class again, though? Look at these idiot, uneducated truckers that don't know what's best for them. Don't worry, you should be listening to us, the people who are actually in positions of power, the ones that are educated enough to make decisions about you. You know, it was okay for you to have your little protest for a while, but when it starts to perhaps make genuine change, we are a lot less happy about that. And you think, well, hang on, the working class that you're supposed to represent, they're telling you, like, they're literally telling you, people aren't deciding to go out into the middle of the Canadian winter, and it looks fucking miserable. It looks so miserable while whatever it is that they're doing, and people are setting up pizza ovens and soup kitchens, and they're standing guard around a statue of a one-legged man because it got desecrated a couple of days ago.

• 11:09Chris Williamson?

  They're not doing that because they're bored, but that takes an awful lot of effort to go and do something like that. So this is the working class telling you what they feel.

• 11:20Michael Malice?

  So, no, they're not. So the argument is they've all been brainwashed by the forces of evil. Somehow Trump's probably involved. So they don't really recognize them as having agency when they're being defiant. And the issue with defiance is now the entire population, which had been docile and submissive because they were told and reiterated that they have no choice, that we have to make these hard decisions in order to save everyone's lives. Now to have a large group of people say, hold on a minute, there are other ways to go about this. This causes people who prefer safety to liberty enormous psychological distress

• 12:03Michael Malice?

  because everything in their mental makeup is about giving up choice and having options in favor of being told what to do for the sake of security and safety, which has not at all been guaranteed to them whatsoever, but they can act as if it has been.

• 12:21Chris Williamson?

  There's a guy who called into a show that I listened to saying that he hasn't had sleep in nearly five days now because of this honking. And that's the other side of it, where you go, okay, like, that bit does suck. I've been kept awake by loud noses previously when I've been in cities, and it really is quite bad. I don't really know what you're supposed to do about that.

• 12:39Michael Malice?

  I don't believe him. It's not because of the honking. It's because of his neurosis. So what COVID did very effectively was to allow highly educated urban people, which tend to correlate very well with mental illness such as anxiety and depression and other sorts of neurosis. This gives them an external source to blame for their issues. So instead of, you know, I'm suffering because, you know, of me, I'm suffering because everyone's suffering. So if you, just because there is a cause for something, that does not mean that the response is proportional or a direct, a direct result of that cause.

• 13:22Michael Malice?

  I don't believe, it's not possible that, sure, I'll believe in that for five nights his sleep was poor. But, you know, I have very little sympathy for him.

• 13:31Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 13:32Michael Malice?

  And the thing is, it's very important. You also remember that in this kind of culture, being a victim is a high status marker. So the more you demonstrate that you personally are suffering as a consequence of bad people, the more virtuous there accordingly you can claim yourself to be.

• 13:48Chris Williamson?

  I read a study the other day about people who are open about past lives of victimhood on dating profiles and how people respond to that. So a lot of the time typically people are positively inclined to the zero to hero story. And we see this get manipulated with training plans, right? Here's a before person who was out of shape and here's an in person that's in shape. And yes, you know, those are the sort of Instagram posts that get loads of likes. Interestingly, on dating apps, somebody that puts, I used to be a victim, but now I have overcome my past traumas and I am better or whatever. That doesn't get, that is negatively correlated with likes on dating apps.

• 14:32Chris Williamson?

  So there is something in there. Maybe there's a still a sense of the cursed child type thing. The fact that something that was wrong with you in the past is it's almost like a biological concern about somebody that was maybe diseased. That's how Rob Henderson put it across, that perhaps there's something that we concern this may come back. There's something icky as well that people have in response, and I've seen this happen online with somebody that opens up about depression. No matter how open the conversation about mental health gets, there's still always a little bit of just ick that sometimes happens that I see from people in their responses when others open up about it.

• 15:14Michael Malice?

  Don't you think it's because depression is, I'm using this word very loosely contagious? Like when we're around depressed people, it does not, it's draining.

• 15:23Chris Williamson?

  Perhaps, but is victimhood the same? Past victimhood? I've overcome my traumas.

• 15:27Michael Malice?

  I think on dating apps, and I'm completely talking out of my ass, but there might be a gender issue, right? So if it's a man who the first thing he says is how he was victimized, I think women might be perceiving him as weak. And if a woman is talking about how she was a victim, men who already are predisposed to this are going to perceive her as either high maintenance or crazy. And this is really, but at the same time, I feel like, you know, someone who has had past trauma, and I've talked about this on Rogan and other episodes, that's quite an icebreaker. And I think that is, that is still correctly, kind of a social taboo. If this is something you, if I meet you at a bar or a party, and this is one of the

• 16:12Michael Malice?

  first things you tell me in five minutes, that's going to tell me, wait a minute, something is wrong here. That is something, if I got to know you more intimately, even just slightly into me, like an hour into a conversation, oh, you know, as a kid, you know, I grew up with an alcoholic mom, then, oh, okay, you know, that's fine. But if this is front and center, why is it important for you to be telling me this right up front?

• 16:36Chris Williamson?

  Dude, that's really smart. So what you're saying, the fact that you have labeled yourself as it undermines the fact that you say you've transcended it?

• 16:44Michael Malice?

  Yeah.

• 16:45Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, that's that's a really fucking good insight. I'm gonna send that to Rob. How closely are you following this Russia and Ukraine situation? You were you grew up in Lvov, right?

• 16:55Michael Malice?

  I grew up in Brooklyn. I was born there.

• 16:56Chris Williamson?

  Born in Lvov?

• 16:58Michael Malice?

  Yeah.

• 16:59Chris Williamson?

  Are you keeping your eyes on this?

• 17:00Michael Malice?

  No, very little. I am. The one thing I have noticed is it's I'm very disturbed by, of course, the war drums. You know, Putin is no joke. Russia is no joke. And the Ukrainian president, from my understanding, went on the air and said, "The media is blowing us out of proportion. Things are not getting demonstrably worse. Calm the hell down." So and I also think if there's something anathema, at least in American media, about seeing things from other countries' perspectives, because we're the good guys and whatever we do is right, and they're the bad guys and or the weak and suck it up.

• 17:41Michael Malice?

  And if you are going to go to any country and put troops on the foreign troops on the border, to expect that other country to just kind of be like, "Oh, it's America. They're the good guys. But you know, this is fine," is bonkers. Same with British troops. You know what I mean? You're gonna get British troops in, you know, on the border of India. The Indians are gonna be like, "Hold on a minute. We've been through this before."

• 18:05Chris Williamson?

  What do you think's gonna happen? Roll the clock forward.

• 18:10Michael Malice?

  I I'm sure that there there always is in the US. And, you know, very notoriously, this is the only quote from Eisenhower that people know. You know, he warned about the military industrial complex. There is an enormous amount of profit to be made and a lot of power to be gained when a nation is at war. It does well for the president in terms of approval ratings. The nation rallies around in times of conflict. They get to go to the funerals and look at heroes with all these coffins that didn't need to be there. You get to kind of seem strong. So there is an enormous incentive. You know, for Washington to have war.

• 18:52Michael Malice?

  And in case people think, oh, you're talking crazy. Keep in mind that last summer, we killed a bunch of kids in Afghanistan. And not only did no one apologize, no one was even fired for it. So, human life means absolutely nothing to the federal government. And if it can be leveraged anyway, to further the government's agenda, they'll be happy to do so. I think Putin sees Biden as weak. Certainly Biden is in a weak position, given a 50 50 Senate, given a five seat majority in the House, which is 435 members total. I, I, I don't know what's going to happen.

• 19:32Michael Malice?

  I am concerned, but I'm most concerned that there is an enormous incentive among American media and American politics to make this a bigger deal than it is. So it could be something like, you know, they take some town, which is not acceptable. And Ukraine and Putin would prefer to be like, all right, pay us off. You get the town or something like that. And the US insinuates itself, goes, no, no, no, no, no. NATO, we're going to protect borders, blah, blah, blah. So it's very easy to imagine a situation where the Americans make it infinitely worse.

• 20:08Chris Williamson?

  And Boris is also embroiled now as well.

• 20:11Michael Malice?

  I, I don't think he's long for this world. I don't see how he survives this.

• 20:16Chris Williamson?

  You think?

• 20:17Michael Malice?

  Well, I mean, isn't it, aren't all the, I mean, Theresa May, my God, talk about, talk about a vampire rising from the grave. She went up on that floor and she nuked him. I mean, she's been, Lady Macbeth, she's been holding that, Lady Macbeth. She's been holding that knife for a long time and she got him good. So.

• 20:38Chris Williamson?

  I know, as a lady who had to go, I know when it is time to go.

• 20:42Michael Malice?

  She said that?

• 20:43Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 20:44Michael Malice?

  No, she didn't.

• 20:45Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 20:46Michael Malice?

  I didn't see that clip. I just saw him. She's like, which is it? Did you not believe in these rules? Or did you believe in them and not care about them? I was like, holy crap. And she's right.

• 20:54Chris Williamson?

  There was a bit where she said, as someone who had to go, I know when it is time to go.

• 20:59Michael Malice?

  Holy crap. But the thing is, he had four ministers quit.

• 21:03Chris Williamson?

  It's just nowhere near enough, man. There's not going to be. I don't think that the only way that this is going to happen is if the next general election looks like he is too toxic to get the conservatives across the line. And that seems unlikely, given the fact that they just had the biggest landslide victory in thirty years.

• 21:22Michael Malice?

  So Labour is now seven points ahead in all polls. So if you look at Wikipedia has opinion polling for the next UK general election. You can see that it's a giant X. So you had a big line, Conservatives, Labour, then they tied. And now Sir Keir is way ahead in every single poll. So, you know, the same thing with Thatcher. The reason Thatcher got kicked out by her own party, people in America couldn't grab their heads around it, is because by that point, one of the reasons, by that point in the polls, like Labour was shellacking them. And any politician is going to look out for her own seat or her own seat first and foremost. And also, in all fairness, it's embarrassing. If I'm a Tory, you know, minister or Tory backbencher, for me to campaign to put Boris Johnson back at number ten, it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

• 22:07Michael Malice?

  I couldn't see my mom at her funeral. He's having keggers and whatever gin, I don't know, pims at number ten. And I'm supposed to vote for you? And I would feel humiliated.

• 22:18Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 22:19Michael Malice?

  Because it was so gratuitous.

• 22:23Chris Williamson?

  That's, I don't know, it really does. I don't know whether it's a flaw in the current system, and this probably plays into your hands quite nicely, that so much of an entire party hinges around one particular individual at the top. The fact that Boris, doing something which, yeah, is a prick thing to do, but it's something that you're. Fucking next door neighbour could have done. It's not actually to do with his deployment of his duties. It's to do with the way that people perceive his personality, the way that he conducts himself. Yes, it was on government property that he was having these parties, but also it's not really to do. It wasn't like he was lying to the fucking House of Lords or some shit. It feels like a weakness because obviously within the system, attacking that

• 23:07Chris Williamson?

  person and making, degrading their particular value has a cascading outsized effect across however many hundreds of different constituencies there are.

• 23:18Michael Malice?

  Yeah, that was a result of the later Thatcher years when she very much made it much more of a presidential model than a parliamentary model. Like all her original people kind of, kind of left. She would left, left with like kind of second tier nobodies who were only there by virtue of her personality. She was very much the face of the British government, whereas previously it was much more, you know, you had the Home Minister, Home Secretary, you had the Labour's Education Secretary, whatever they were. And they kind of took questions and very much managed their own portfolios, which is why you'd have a government which would have, you know, some people who are secretaries are more conservative, some more liberal in both parties. But with her, when she became this kind of big international

• 24:03Michael Malice?

  force, it really, and Tony Blair did this as well, it very much became, you know, that person becomes the face of her Majesty's government, especially internationally. And it was a big sea change in, in UK politics. And it also doesn't hurt when Boris does have such a big, you know, flamboyant appearance and flamboyant personality. This was an issue in terms of him getting in, you know, was he going to be able to give Theresa May run for her money? He chose not to run at the time. But, you know, this is, when you have someone who's kind of this- Either large in life personality, or if you don't like him, a buffoon. You know, this becomes, and this was also an issue for Corbyn.

• 24:47Michael Malice?

  Because, you know, the issue, the question was, do you want to put Jeremy Corbyn in number 10? It very much nationalized and personalized the last election. And thankfully, the British voters resoundingly said no.

• 25:00Chris Williamson?

  Well, a lot of the time, people don't vote for parties, they vote for people. And that cult of personality thing, yeah, it's just the way it is. Finishing off that, what we were talking about to do with Russia, I'd pulled this piece out that just the language that's used. When you were talking about escalating or increasing, exaggerating the sense of vociferousness in the situation. International diplomatic efforts going on amidst military tension between Russia and Ukraine. Diplomatic efforts continued on Tuesday as US Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke with the Russian Foreign Prime Minister and the British Prime Minister, they had a discussion with the Ukrainian President, emphasized that further invasion of Ukraine would be met with swift and severe consequences,

• 25:42Chris Williamson?

  and urged Russia to pursue a diplomatic path, according to a US State Department statement. The Ukraine Prime Minister said he hopes the country will be able to launch a new regional format of cooperation, Ukraine, Poland, UK, and that in context of ongoing Russian aggression, we should sign a trilateral document on cooperation to strengthen regional security. The Russian President on Tuesday said the Western powers are ignoring Moscow's security concerns and using Russia as a tool to contain Russia, using Ukraine as a tool to contain Russia.

• 26:14Michael Malice?

  Yeah, so look at it from Putin's point of view, right, which is, oh my God, how can you say that? Like, I'm against Ukraine, you know, we've had, let's say rivalry, to put it mildly, for centuries. And now Ukraine's calling in Britain for backup? And they're not only saying this just theoretically, we're going to sign a treaty that if anything happens, you've got the entire force of the UK that are going to be on the border with Russia. Of course, Putin's not going to like this. Now, you could, it's kind of who started it. But at a certain point, if you're going to talk diplomacy, you have to recognize both parties have legitimate concerns. Neither one is de-escalating the situation, right? If he's putting troops on the border and you're responding with Ukrainian troops and

• 26:56Michael Malice?

  here come the Brits and the Americans aren't far behind, you know, sure, he's going to back down, but then he have to wonder, wait a minute, if I'm going to back down here, what's going to stop you guys from further, you know, pushing your luck in terms of areas that historically may have not belonged to Russia?

• 27:12Chris Williamson?

  Hmm. What were your thoughts on the Whoopi Goldberg fallout this week?

• 27:15Michael Malice?

  I didn't, I thought she, Whoopi Goldberg is a philo-Semite. I did a project with her. She's very pro-Jewish in her personal life. She's not an anti-Semite at all. It's crazy. I think she was just saying something kind of awkwardly, meaning the Holocaust wasn't, and again, I could be putting words in my mouth, maybe I'm being too generous in my interpretation of her comments, but I thought she was saying the Holocaust isn't about race, when she said it's about man's and humanity, man, this is a much bigger issue than mere racism. This is something that is primal and central to our understanding

• 27:54Michael Malice?

  of human nature. And I don't understand what suspending her for two weeks accomplishes. This, of course, genocide is an issue that should be treated carefully. When we're talking about murdering children, it's not the same as discussing tax rates, or, you know, we're kind of hard-boiled eggs we should have for breakfast, or whether those are healthy or not. But I think she was speaking in good faith. I think she got left out to dry is my understanding, because she did what ABC told her to do, to go out and apologize, and they still punched her after it, for which my understanding, the reports are saying she was furious. Whoopi is, even though she's hard-left, often an unorthodox thinker.

• 28:36Michael Malice?

  She spoke out how she defended George W. Bush in terms of immigration. She's against the death tax, which we have here. So, and she's often, I think, I've seen her, I think, speak to Hannity. I know she's spoken with hardcore conservatives who other people regard as radioactive. So, I don't see what

• 28:56Michael Malice?

  The suspending her will gain, except just make the issue radioactive as opposed to an issue that should be treated with decorum.

• 29:04Chris Williamson?

  I don't think that her apology on the night time did her very many favors. She sort of entered it and it was okay. And then by the end of it, she, she didn't really actually apologize. She basically said, I'm sorry if you misinterpreted what I said, which is just the shittiest fucking way to do an apology.

• 29:20Michael Malice?

  Sure.

• 29:20Chris Williamson?

  Ever like that was really poorly played. But I also agree, I, I think that it didn't seem to me like she was trying to, like she had a, a lack of sympathy, particularly for that. It was just very, very poorly worded and it's the fucking view. Like this is supposed to get you ready for picking the kid, drop, you've dropped the kids off at school and you come back and you, why is this even a topic for them to discuss?

• 29:45Michael Malice?

  Well, they do, they have, because they have these issues all the time, but I mean, you, if you suspended everyone from the view, when they had a poorly thought out, poorly articulated opinion, you wouldn't have a show. I mean, this is the show where.

• 29:59Chris Williamson?

  Wasn't Sharon Osbourne cancelled from the show for defending Piers Morgan?

• 30:03Michael Malice?

  That's the talk. So the talk was a rip off show of the view. It's basically the identical show and she was, yeah, she got cancelled for, for saying, you know, Pierce might have a point that Meghan Markle might be a sociopath, which her own family, bear you in mind, had said. Now, it, which is just so insane that, the other thing about, that's great about the view, side note, is Meghan McCain has a pathological hatred of the British and it comes out whenever these topics come out. So there had been issues where they were talking about like Prince Harry and she's like, my great grandparents didn't fight the redcoats for me to sit here and care about the F in British and screw them, I don't have an opinion.

• 30:47Michael Malice?

  And she just goes on these bizarre rants whenever the UK royal family comes up. It's just beautiful.

• 30:53Chris Williamson?

  Well, I'm talking, I'm talking to Meghan McCain, she's got a new book out soon. I'm talking to a publisher about bringing her on, but now I've got second thoughts about that.

• 31:02Michael Malice?

  I'll DM her right now and tell her.

• 31:05Chris Williamson?

  Fucking hell. Yeah, man, I just, there feels like there's a thread between all of the things that we've seen at the moment, whether it be the Rogan situation, the trucker situation, the Whoopi Goldberg situation. Everything is at maximum volume the whole time. And what everyone is searching for is this is the tip of the iceberg that shows us the remainder of your reprehensible personality. This one thing was a slip up that you did that was maybe a small error or whatever, but it's indicative of the fact that you fundamentally are a bad, horrible racist misogynist, whatever, person. And I think, I don't know whether I can lay it at the feet of the left or sort of woke ideology overall, but it certainly

• 31:50Chris Williamson?

  seems like with the situation with Whoopi Goldberg, a lot of people on the right saw this as an opportunity to be like, right, let's give them a taste of their own medicine. If they are going to demand such what we feel are overblown responses to some of the things that we don't think are egregious, when the people on the left decide to make this much of an error, we're going to try and throw the kitchen sink at it.

• 32:11Michael Malice?

  Yeah, but it didn't work. So what does that gain you? So I, that's number one. And number two is, I think that, I agree with you, what you're saying in terms of tip of the iceberg, but what I think the issue is, as COVID is receding as an excuse for cultural and social control and political control, both by media outlets and governments, they need a new excuse in order to have, you know, total domination over people's lives. And it's going to be really hard to find one because a pandemic makes sense. This is something that affects literally everyone. This is something where you can only have quite limited control in terms of how it spreads. It's a virus, quite literally

• 32:52Michael Malice?

  goes viral. But if you're going to pivot from that to kind of white supremacy, first of all, that's less tangible. Second of all, the number of people who identify as white supremacist is virtually nil. And it's very hard to. To tell these truckers, for example, who are like, you know, I don't believe in these mandates. Well, the only reason you care about that is white supremacy. It's like, well, the, the, the white supremacy is I'm driving through the snow and putting my life in danger all the time because this is the most dangerous job on earth. So it's, they don't know where to pivot from, uh, you know, the last couple of years where they've had a great excuse to completely control every aspect of people's lives.

• 33:33Chris Williamson?

  So there's a degree of anxiety that needs to be broadcast and

• 33:37Michael Malice?

  Correct.

• 33:38Chris Williamson?

  If you're unable to keep that with one very large warhead, you need multiple smaller ones to try and contribute to it.

• 33:45Michael Malice?

  But which are, it's, but it's nowhere near as effective. I mean, it's one thing to kinda, you know, nuke Hiroshima. It's another thing to be a sniper. It's just like, sure, the sniper is going to make people scared, but it's nowhere near as unconditional surrender.

• 33:58Chris Williamson?

  Dude, I've just thought of something. So you know how a lot of the time people get, one of the concerns that you have from more libertarian or conservative type people is that during a crisis, the government is then going to overstep and a lot of the rights that they seize from you during this time of emergency are ones that you don't get back.

• 34:14Michael Malice?

  Right.

• 34:15Chris Williamson?

  What it sounds like you're saying here is that there is an equivalent with the media, that the media raise the water level of the neuroticism, the anxiety, the ambient anxiety that pervades through everything, uh, and sort of the volume of vitriol that is in the press. And they also aren't keen about allowing that.

• 34:35Michael Malice?

  Correct, of course.

• 34:35Chris Williamson?

  Dude, that's such a fucking interesting model to think about.

• 34:38Michael Malice?

  The media are much worse than the governments and, and we know this because let's suppose I was a democratic governor or a labor minister, whatever, in the UK. And I looked at the data and I say, wait a minute, there's nothing behind this social distancing. This is nonsense. Like where's this six feet coming from? How the hell is that going to prevent anything? And okay, theoretically you're saying it's going to prevent it. Well, it's not working because, you know, we had social distancing, COVID still spread everywhere. If I said this on television, I'd be out of office. Because immediately, every outlet from left to right would be like, you know, Shadow Minister Malice says social distancing doesn't work. He wants us to, oh, he clearly wants us to die. He's not following the science. This guy's a lunatic.

• 35:23Michael Malice?

  Why is he opening his mouth? Look at all these people saying this. If social distancing, and side note, if social distancing was efficacious, why are we bringing it back? And if we're not bringing it back, what did we do to begin with? That's a separate note. But I would not be in a position as a politician to question this. And we know this because, you know, people called Gavin Newsom, who is a governor here of California, who was caught having dinner while social distancing rules were in effect. And there are many other such cases where, you know, politicians were just basically being hypocrites. They knew, but in their defense, what were they supposed to do? They had no choice but to follow this drumbeat, as you were saying, of ambient anxiety.

• 36:01Chris Williamson?

  Dude, that's such a good concept to keep in mind.

• 36:06Michael Malice?

  This is what conservatives get wrong. Conservatives are, think that the enemy are the Labor Party or the Democrats here, and we're gonna kick Joe Biden out of office, or we're gonna beat Jeremy Corbyn, blah, blah. That's not the issue. When you have, Jeremy Corbyn is the tail. Joe Biden is the tail. The corporate press are the dog who are wagging that tail.

• 36:26Chris Williamson?

  Fuck, man. I'm not gonna be able to get that out of my head.

• 36:29Michael Malice?

  But you cannot see it. Another example I used a couple of years ago was, let's suppose I'm a Democratic politician, and I think Trump is dividing America. I think he's completely either a racist, or he's fuming the feels of racism to further his agenda. And I think he's an ass, and I think he's an educate, and I think he's boorish, and I think he has no business being in the White House. But I don't think he should be impeached or removed from office from a dopey phone call where he was fishing for something. Impeachment, no one's been removed from office before. This does not reach that level. I can't, as a Democrat, go in front of my constituents who heard four years of Russia, Russia, Russia, and Trump collusion, and keep my seat. I did not have that freedom.

• 37:13Michael Malice?

  So it's very clear who's in charge of whom.

• 37:18Chris Williamson?

  Dude, do you follow-

• 37:20Michael Malice?

  Am I wrong?

• 37:20Chris Williamson?

  No, you're not. And it's just when you see something that ties all of the threads together, that's like a common, a single concept like that, that the goal of the press is to keep the volume high.

• 37:32Michael Malice?

  Yes.

• 37:33Chris Williamson?

  That's actually what they're trying to achieve. And it explains why so many topics recently have been overblown. When you see like, why the fuck endless, endless stories in mainstream media about Rogan, about who he's had on the show, or about what he's said in the past, or about whatever, and then reactions to the reactions, and then has the White House said something, all the Canadian truckers, all just pick whatever it is. Because you're right, you know, if you've got a huge, huge vat of anxiety to fill, and the pandemic starts to slowly get lifted out of that. So the question that I have, that I always come back to, and it's the one that I keep on asking you about, is what is the end goal? Is it just that greater fear brings greater control?

• 38:15Michael Malice?

  It gives you power, it gives you strength, it gives you money, and it gives you a status, because now everyone's looking to me to make decisions. So that's good for my ego and my sense of status. And it also, for many of the audience, it rationalizes their mental disquiet. Now, because they're filling a need as well. So they're not only creating a need, they're also filling a need among, you know, educated, urban, wealthy people who are kind of disquieted by their nature.

• 38:49Chris Williamson?

  Do you follow Aella Girl on Twitter? A-E-L-L-A?

• 38:55Michael Malice?

  A-E-L-L. No, I never heard her.

• 38:57Chris Williamson?

  Okay, so she's part of, I guess, like, tangentially on the rationalist community. She's pretty interesting. She's written a lot of blog posts about how to maximize money on OnlyFans, but she's also big into philosophy and stuff as well. Quite interesting. Anyway, she put this tweet out the other day that I thought was really cool. Last year, my roommates and I had fun-

• 39:15Michael Malice?

  It's where she's in Austin, and it says she, her Twitter biography simply has the word whore lord.

• 39:23Chris Williamson?

  Oh Lord, yeah.

• 39:24Michael Malice?

  Yeah.

• 39:25Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Uh, yeah, she's interesting, man. She's worth a follow. Um, but she put this tweet up the other day that said, "Last year, my roommates and I had fun gambling with GameStop. One day, I woke up and said, 'You know, it's weird. I just don't feel interested in GameStop anymore.'" And my roommate heard that and immediately sold right before the crash. "I'm sort of having this feeling with woke stuff. There's something like, it's just not interesting anymore. I think part of me believes that big institutions don't really take it seriously." Scott Alexander echoed this in a recent, uh, Astral Codex 10 blog post, and I agree. "It feels like I never actually run into woke people now. It's just not trendy." And this, I, I don't know how true this is, because I've never

• 40:05Chris Williamson?

  really seen it other than on the internet. So, you know, the libs of TikTok type videos that get captured and then put online, or a Matt Walsh Ben Shapiro reaction video, like, I'll see those. So that was only my, my only ever introduction to it. But I think that there's definitely something to be said for endless satire and mocking being really, really effective as a tool to make something so contaminated and toxic to be associated with, that people no longer want to do it. Because you can try and litigate something out of existence, but it's really hard to do that, you know, to somehow try and top down it. But if you make it so uncool to be associated with just through, like, effective

• 40:46Chris Williamson?

  satire and mockery, people are just gonna drop it like a, a hot stone. They don't want to be associated with something that lowers their status.

• 40:54Michael Malice?

  Well, it's also kind of being a tryhard, right? So it's whether it's a bodybuilder, right? Or someone who has a lot of makeup, but also a full beard. And when you glance at this person, rightly or wrongly, a lot of people like, "You are spending a lot of time on your appearance to create a reaction on sight when people see you, and I don't care what it is, but I'm not interested in learning more." Now, this is a prejudice that is incorrect. There's lots of people in both of those groups I mentioned who are quality people that you would learn a lot from. But when you are presenting yourself in a certain, specific way, that takes a lot of work and is several standard deviations away from what is considered, you know, acceptable or normal, whatever bad word you want

• 41:37Michael Malice?

  to use, this is going to make people simply like, "Okay, here we go," right before they meet you. Um, and I disagree a little bit because...

• 41:50Michael Malice?

  Corporate America is where things go to die. You know, they appropriate things from the fringes. They swallow them and they excrete them in a manner that's palatable to the masses. So we've got a ways to go before this kind of is gets through the corporate kind of digestive system. And, you know, the thing that people, no one has as much contempt for corporate America as I do, but what people need to appreciate is they're often very bandwagon. These are not very bright. Like someone will read an article in Bloomberg or Fortune, some 60-year-old exec about, oh, this company got a lot of free publicity from a viral video. Okay, we need to make a viral video.

• 42:34Michael Malice?

  Now, it's like, what was it? And it's like, well, I read this article. Or like, we need to have a blog. This was a thing. Or we should have a Twitter. Now, if you sat him down and said, hold on, we make nails for kind of industrial concerns. Why do we need a Twitter? Why do we need a Twitter? Did you not see this article from Fortune? It says this company's, you know, profits increased by 10% thanks to their social media. What, are you an idiot? So I remember very much that, and this is obviously a poor example, but it was a telling one, Trump showed The Apprentice. And there was some detergent, commercial detergent, let's, I don't even remember what it was, let's say Tide or whatever. And the task for both teams was create a viral video.

• 43:20Michael Malice?

  And Perez Hilton was the judge, right? The blogger Perez Hilton. And one team brought in a bunch of little people and like the little persons in the washing machine and they're running around. And I don't remember what the other team did, but it was something silly and goofy. And Perez is like, these are great. Like, I would share this with my friend. They made a viral video. And then Trump, who's the host, sat down with the execs and they were livid. They're like, this is a family product and you're making like, you're being silly. Both of these are completely unacceptable. So what he wanted was like a commercial of mom using the detergent and now the detergent cleans the clothes and for some oblivious

• 44:02Michael Malice?

  reason, everyone is sharing this. And he had no concept of what a viral video was. So they'll, they'll be for this woke stuff, but these people are often effectively mindless. They'll just see some article and be like, oh, okay, diversity and inclusion, you know, helps company gain market share. Okay, we need that. And what that means is we're going to hire a black lady. I mean, they're, they're dumb beyond dumb. And that's why I'm so confident that the good guys are going to win.

• 44:33Chris Williamson?

  Half of it is probably forward-thinking, aggressive, growth motive, but maybe even more than that, to me, feels like fear, you know, of the companies that have done this. It's a fear of what happens if you don't. But not, most companies were posting the black square because if you didn't, the repercussions were grave.

• 44:53Michael Malice?

  Look at, look at CrossFit.

• 44:55Chris Williamson?

  Yep. Fuck, man. I had, so I had Ben Bergeron on, who is the coach of Matt Fraser and Catherine David's daughter for a good period of time, two of the fittest athletes on the planet. He owns CompTrain and CrossFit New England in Boston. And I had him on and I was asking about the recent cancellations that have occurred. So Greg Glassman, who was the founder, he tweeted some stuff that was inappropriate last two years ago now, instantly gone. A big bunch of people went with him, but there was one guy left, Dave Castro, director of the CrossFit Games, the guy that writes the workouts for the Open. So arguably the most influential and important person in all of CrossFit HQ. He's got, he used to be a Navy SEAL, very no bullshit, very straight down the line, kind of puts

• 45:38Chris Williamson?

  some people off, but a real character, right? Like a, not the same as this, but he, he is a figurehead in the same way that perhaps an Elon Musk would be a figurehead, right? That he is, he adds to the brand with the way that he puts himself across. And sure enough, he Three weeks ago, posts on Instagram that he's been notified that his services are no longer needed, but he found out essentially through a news article and that the guy that had taken over Greg Glassman, the original owner's role, this Eric Rosa dude, had spoken to him and said, yeah, we, we sort of don't need you anymore, even though this guy is very, very, very legit, probably one of the best programmers on the planet. And the

• 46:20Chris Williamson?

  reason that I think he went is he was the last vestige of the old guard, the final people that were in this company. And he's a risk to have somebody like that now within a company who will speak their mind, who doesn't really care about adhering to whatever the new doctrine and the new ideology is. Having that person is rolling the dice every time that you let them say something on a microphone.

• 46:42Michael Malice?

  Yeah, oh yeah, for sure. And so it's, and there's many cases like that. And that's the other thing, I worked at Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan, the, you know, there was this kind of myth, or maybe it was the facts, that you, back in the day, you were a company man, you worked for a company, they took care of you and you know, you would stay the whole of your life. The lack, the amount of loyalty these firms expect, and the zero loyalty they have in return, the fact that he had to find this out from an article, instead of him being given a big celebratory save, public face saving, like, you know what, I'm moving on to form my own venture. Thank you, CrossFit. Thank you for helping

• 47:25Michael Malice?

  us, you know what I mean? These are really nasty, despicable, reprehensible people who will sell you genocide with a smile on their face. Cause this ties exactly back to these are the people who are selling missiles and tanks in order to kill children overseas. I remember, I bring this example all the time, because this to me was the most disturbing example of corporate sociopathy. During the Iraq war, I believe this was on CNN, there was some executive talking about, you know, the upcoming campaign against Baghdad. And they were talking about the Shakana attack that was going to be imminent. And he said, if you have to ask,

• 48:05Michael Malice?

  it's not Shakana. And it's like, whoa, wait, you're presenting this like, if you have to ask if this is the biggest bouquet you've ever seen, you know what I mean? It's like, Shakana means an entire city population. I'm sure many of whom were loyal to Saddam were bad people. I'm sure many of whom had blood on their hands, but also thousands, if not tens of thousands of children, tens of thousands of innocent people. If they're not terrorized, then we haven't done our job. And he had this big smile on his face, and you knew there was this big whiteboard, and he had sat down with the Department of Defense and talked about how awesome it's going to be that for 24 hours, it would be stronger than the sun, and everyone there would be so terrified, they'd be literally

• 48:46Michael Malice?

  crapping their pants and begging for surrender. And it's like, you are literally a demon, you know, selling death and destruction, and with a smile on your face, and have no concept of anything remotely close to humanity.

• 49:02Chris Williamson?

  It's crazy that these people get into positions of power.

• 49:06Michael Malice?

  It's not crazy, because it's like, it's the same way that, you know, child predators are going to go where the children are, they're going to be drawn to where their talents are of use.

• 49:19Chris Williamson?

  How much of it do you think is innate, and how much is a feedback mechanism from the position that they need to be in and the things they need to do once they get there?

• 49:26Michael Malice?

  Oh, that's a great question. I don't know. I could, I could give an answer, but it'd be completely talking out of my ass.

• 49:33Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Melissa Chen tweeted the other day about how China's

• 49:37Michael Malice?

  Great.

• 49:37Chris Williamson?

  China's mandatory app for health monitoring. Do you see this?

• 49:40Michael Malice?

  No.

• 49:41Chris Williamson?

  Oh, bro. China is requiring a mandatory health app that is ostensibly for health monitoring for all Beijing Olympics participants, media, and government officials. As you'd expect, it turns out to be spyware that records everything said. Have fun at Beijing 2020. And she's quote tweeting a guy who is a programmer, saying, after reverse engineering all of the Beijing 2020 app for iOS and Android, I can definitively say all Olympian audio is being collected, analyzed, and saved on Chinese servers using tech from USA blacklisted AI firm, iFly Tech.

• 50:19Michael Malice?

  Well, they should be looking at like all sorts of really bad porn so that all those Chinese censors.

• 50:24Chris Williamson?

  Send them, sell them a dummy.

• 50:27Michael Malice?

  I'm gonna see all this iconography.

• 50:31Michael Malice?

  Or just start Googling June, uh, um, June 4th, 1989.

• 50:36Chris Williamson?

  What's that?

• 50:37Michael Malice?

  Tianmen Square.

• 50:38Chris Williamson?

  Right. Wow. I don't know, man. There's just all of this stuff. There seems to be-

• 50:43Michael Malice?

  You know, that's what I would do. I'd wear those Tank Man t-shirts.

• 50:46Chris Williamson?

  Just see what happens.

• 50:47Michael Malice?

  What are you gonna do about it?

• 50:48Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 50:48Michael Malice?

  Yeah.

• 50:50Chris Williamson?

  I'm trying to marry across stuff that like that is, you know, because presumably those apps are probably going to be able to hold on to your phone even after you've deleted it.

• 50:58Michael Malice?

  Of course. And they're sure they're gonna clone it, get a, get a, get a, uh, image of it, rather.

• 51:03Chris Williamson?

  Yep. And you'll then if you message somebody else, perhaps, I don't know. I'm not sure how secure Android and iOS can be, but not sufficiently secure to avoid being a spyware app for a health monitoring thing.

• 51:14Michael Malice?

  There's no way they're not gonna get all your contacts immediately.

• 51:18Chris Williamson?

  That is a real scary news story. Meanwhile, the press is focusing on whether Joe Rogan's last podcast had the right balance on it, or whether stuff that he said 12 years ago really matters. Like-

• 51:35Michael Malice?

  The press also doesn't like telling stories where they can't paint themselves as victorious. So there's a guy here in Austin named Cody Wilson, and he's behind 3D printing guns. So how it works is you have a 3D printer in your house, and you hit print, and a certain amount of time later, you have a gun that's unregistered and untraceable. Now, they've tried to pass laws around this, but the laws have no efficacy because he's not selling guns, he's selling files. And a 3D, you're gonna ban 3D printing, that's not gonna happen either. So this is something that's not given, it's called, it's organized, it's called Defense Distributed. This is something that's not given wide parlance because the conclusion is there's nothing we can do about this.

• 52:17Michael Malice?

  And that makes them look very, very bad because what they're selling is- At corporate media outlets will present a problem and in the next paragraph they will present the best solution.

• 52:29Chris Williamson?

  Which is them.

• 52:30Michael Malice?

  So right away, which is them or someone who's in power in part thanks to them. So right away, me, if I'm going to be a well-read person, I'm going to hear a problem and I'm going to advocate for this solution with all my force. With articles like this, now he's gotten some coverage, but it's nowhere near as big as you would otherwise expect, there's no solution. So they, what they try to do is they try to say, well, if a gun, if this is like 15% of a gun, that's legally counted as a gun, he's like, okay, here's the file for 85% of guns. So there's no way that they can kind of legislate around this, even definitionally. And again, this is not something, because again, sorry, I keep saying that, if you

• 53:13Michael Malice?

  watch CNN, I can't have a five-minute segment where this is something so complicated with no resolution, without the viewer leaving like, okay, I know what to think now.

• 53:22Chris Williamson?

  Dude, I saw a story the other day of a guy who had worked out how to 3D print a 3D printer.

• 53:29Michael Malice?

  Oh.

• 53:30Chris Williamson?

  Far too clever, way, way, way too clever. That guy needs to be locked up. What are you drinking? How big is that?

• 53:37Michael Malice?

  Arizonic, it's my macros.

• 53:39Chris Williamson?

  So.

• 53:40Michael Malice?

  This is from Meghan, this is from Meghan McCain, Arizona, baby.

• 53:44Chris Williamson?

  For the people who've never been out drinking with Michael Malice and grabbing soft drinks, you are one of the only people I know that chooses to rip the ring pull off the top. Yep, there it is.

• 53:56Michael Malice?

  That way I know it's my bottle.

• 53:57Chris Williamson?

  Who else is in the room with you?

• 53:59Michael Malice?

  Like if I'm at a party and everyone has a beer.

• 54:02Chris Williamson?

  But you're not at a party.

• 54:03Michael Malice?

  Well, this is just a throwback to college.

• 54:06Chris Williamson?

  It's just part of that. You were getting accused not long ago of the reason that your headphones were tangled was because you were just a straight-up chaos merchant.

• 54:17Michael Malice?

  Yeah.

• 54:18Chris Williamson?

  And I feel like, I feel like this just plays into that.

• 54:20Michael Malice?

  How is this chaos? It's order, I know which one's mine.

• 54:24Chris Williamson?

  I'm unsure. But yeah, the guy could 3D print a 3D printer, which is pretty concerning. But so the main thing that I've taken away from today is that the press themselves are an entity with their own agenda, which duh.

• 54:39Michael Malice?

  Not the, can I interrupt you?

• 54:40Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 54:41Michael Malice?

  Not a bias, an agenda. If everyone knew that they had a bias, that's inevitable. We're gonna have a perspective.

• 54:46Chris Williamson?

  Yes.

• 54:47Michael Malice?

  That they have an agenda.

• 54:49Chris Williamson?

  What's the difference?

• 54:50Michael Malice?

  Because a bias is, okay, I'm gonna look at this story from a labor point of view, or a liberal point of view, conservative or a Tory point of view, as opposed to, I am writing this story because I want people to feel a certain way. My goal isn't to inform, my goal is to manipulate. My goal is to affect social change.

• 55:10Chris Williamson?

  That's scary.

• 55:12Michael Malice?

  Why?

• 55:14Chris Williamson?

  Because they influence the opinions of so many people.

• 55:20Michael Malice?

  Sure, but those people are, it's one mind in many persons.

• 55:26Chris Williamson?

  Hmm. Yes, but it is a very large swath of the population. I keep on, I keep on thinking about this. The more that I dig into whatever you want to call it, the heterodox sphere of sense-making or whatever, the less that you can see how norm, normal people view the media that they consume. You know, vast majority of people, probably the first time they ever heard of Joe Rogan was when the Spotify deal went through, and then the next time might have been this week. You think, okay.

• 55:57Michael Malice?

  The next time, no, no, it was the Spotify deal, then Joe Rogan's irrelevant because of the Spotify deal, because they tried to sing that song for a while, remember, that no one cares what he thinks anymore. And then it was Joe Rogan's is an existential threat to America because he doesn't want people to get vaccinated, which he never said.

• 56:15Chris Williamson?

  Rudy Giuliani was on the Fox's The Masked Singer. Did you see this?

• 56:19Michael Malice?

  No.

• 56:20Chris Williamson?

  Unmasking of Rudy Giuliani on Fox's The Masked Singer prompts judges Ken Jeong and Robin Thicke to walk off in protest. Rudy Giuliani was unmasked as an exiting costume contender in last week's taping of the first season seven episode of Fox's popular primetime show, The Masked Singer. The show is known for its jaw dropping surprises when celebrity contestants shed their headpieces after they were eliminated. The reaction to Giuliani was perhaps the most polarizing the show has seen since 2020. The Masked Singer-

• 56:49Michael Malice?

  Sarah Palin.

• 56:49Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, The Masked Singer was another Republican politician. Sarah Palin was unveiled as the bear. I'm glad that we've got clarity on what character it was that she decided to feature.

• 56:59Michael Malice?

  I think she did Baby Got Back.

• 57:04Michael Malice?

  I'm pretty sure. So it wasn't just that it was Sarah Palin, who I'm sure has a perfectly fine, I'm sitting in your voice, I wouldn't put that past her. But I think, yeah, it was Baby Got Back.

• 57:15Chris Williamson?

  I love how, so this is from deadline.com. Deadline.com mention, "We aren't revealing which costume Rudy wore or what his swan song was. His exit won't air until next month, so you can still revel in his reveal. The theme of the new season is the good, the bad, and the cuddly. Your political affiliation determines which category Giuliani fits into." Deadline hears what Jeong and Thicke exited, they eventually returned. Fellow judges Jenny McCarthy and Nicole Scherzinger remained on stage. They banted with Giuliani a controversial figure for blah, blah, blah, blah. Fox did not comment.

• 57:51Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, Rudy Giuliani on, I mean, that's from White House to shite house, isn't it?

• 57:56Michael Malice?

  Well, I mean, he's been, uh, really lost a lot of credibility among Republicans for how he handled, um, the Trump election in 2020. Uh, he kind of made a big ass of himself. And I know there was one press conference where his hair dye started leaking down his face.

• 58:15Chris Williamson?

  Was that the same one where he booked it outside of like an air conditioning factory? Did you see that?

• 58:20Michael Malice?

  No.

• 58:21Chris Williamson?

  Oh dude, this is so good. So I can't remember. He'd booked it for a particular location. Let's say the Palm or West Palm, something or whatever. And it turns out that the location that they'd booked was the, some air conditioning factory. So all of the press had turned up and it wasn't at some grand hotel to give this big reveal about some important shit. They were just stood outside of like some middle America fucking workplace. And they just decided to go ahead with it rather than trying to change it and pivoted to like Havana Club West or whatever. They went to Havana Club, air conditioning creators.

• 59:03Chris Williamson?

  So yeah, it was a, how would you say, catalog of errors culminating in him now being on the mast, isn't it? It's important.

• 59:10Michael Malice?

  Yeah. And he's really old at this point. Isn't he like almost 80, if not 80?

• 59:15Chris Williamson?

  They used that photo of him with the, the hair dye falling down the side of his face as well, which does look pretty scary.

• 59:22Michael Malice?

  He's 77. Yeah. He's, so he's older than Biden.

• 59:26Chris Williamson?

  Is he? Fucking hell.

• 59:28Michael Malice?

  Yeah. Biden is, I think 76.

• 59:32Michael Malice?

  Uh, he's 77 Biden is, no Biden's 79. I apologize, but I mean, they're comparable there.

• 59:39Chris Williamson?

  How was the night that I missed at the Tesla factory? Cause we haven't, we haven't got to speak about this.

• 59:43Michael Malice?

  Oh God, talk about imposter syndrome. You know, I'm there with midnight with Jordan Peterson, Elon Musk and Joe Rogan. Michaela was there of course, who I'm pals with. And if you had told, this, the factory is gigantic. I've never been to a factory that big.

• 1:00:00Chris Williamson?

  Giga, giga factory, right?

• 1:00:02Michael Malice?

  Is that what it's called? I don't know. It's like a Tesla drive or something. But if you had told me that there was, cause it's very brightly lit, right? And Austin is not bright at night because there's not a lot of streetlights, like back in New York, obviously. And, and I'm sure Newcastle, it might be the same way. If there, if you, and there's people there at like midnight, like what's going on over there? And if you had told me that. Like one of these rooms had a UFO that they were reverse engineering. It very much felt like Independence Day when they were doing that. And I was like, can I, who can I look at? Who can I talk to? I was very, um, this is, it was kind of almost like being like North Korea. Like when you're in North Korea, uh, you're there, you're like, this is not my place.

• 1:00:47Michael Malice?

  Like, I don't belong here. So you really gotta be on guard about what you say, look at, or do and make eye contact the whole time. So when I was there, even though I'd, I'd been invited and cleared, I was still like, all right. Like, am I allowed into this truck? Can I take a picture of this? Like, I, I was just so scared.

• 1:01:04Chris Williamson?

  Fun, though.

• 1:01:06Michael Malice?

  Uh, I don't know if that would be the word. It was like mind, awe inspiring.

• 1:01:11Chris Williamson?

  Why not fun? Nervousness?

• 1:01:13Michael Malice?

  Yeah, I just, I couldn't let my guard down.

• 1:01:17Chris Williamson?

  Did you get to meet Elon? Cause you were there when he was recording his Babylon Bee thing, but.

• 1:01:21Michael Malice?

  Yeah, I didn't get to talk to him. Um, we all hung out after. I, I didn't want to be that guy.

• 1:01:25Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:26Michael Malice?

  Uh, uh, yeah, you know, I, I just spent time talking to the Petersons and Joe.

• 1:01:31Chris Williamson?

  Cool. There was a story that I read the other day about a SpaceX rocket on a collision course with the moon after spending almost seven years hurtling through space. So the booster got launched in 2015. It was doing some shit. And then, uh, it ended up in a very chaotic orbit. And, uh, eventually it's going to hit the moon and it's not going to be a big deal. But, uh, space fanatics look forward to seeing what lessons can come from it. Went through its le, le grunge point, a gravity neutral position, four times further than the moon and in direct line with the sun. And then the rocket's second stage is gonna end up falling into it. So Elon is, uh, also getting rid of his rockets by hitting them into the moon.

• 1:02:13Michael Malice?

  Okay, cool. The, uh, America, uh, the earth's garbage pit.

• 1:02:17Chris Williamson?

  The moon. Yeah, the earth's garbage pit. Uh, what have you got coming up? How's everything else with you?

• 1:02:23Michael Malice?

  I'm writing about the Holodomor now, so that's not very fun. That's when Stalin starved millions of Ukrainians. And it was, the most disturbing part is if they ransacked your house and you didn't have any grain, that's how they knew you were hiding it, right? That's the logic, so you better freaking find it. So they'd go search your house during the day, search it again at night. If they would just burn people's houses down, throw them in the street, including whole families, naked in the middle of winter, break people's hands in doorknob, in door jams, things like that. And the thing is, if you weren't starving, your own body betrayed you. Because they could look at you and see, oh, you have food, and you better fucking hand it over.

• 1:03:08Michael Malice?

  So this was, and it was covered up by the Western journalists at the time, who said, there's no famine, and this is just anti-Russia propaganda. So going through that, writing about it for the next book is, uh, it's, this is not a particularly insightful thing to say, but when you hear about, you know, children being starved to death intentionally, it does a number on you.

• 1:03:28Chris Williamson?

  Do you find it, I was gonna say, is it emotionally draining to write that stuff?

• 1:03:32Michael Malice?

  Yeah, especially because, you know, many of the people who covered this up were never held accountable to this day. And also the fact that this is in public knowledge, the fact that you were like, what's that? I mean, this, this is a complete atrocity, crime against humanity. Just awful, awful thing. And it's just, it's also, it's heartening to know that this is gonna be widely read and that I get to kinda, you know, advocate for these people and give them their testimony. This is where I'm from, so it kind of, knowing this is in my DNA, also kind of hits a little close to home, but it's, it's rough.

• 1:04:15Chris Williamson?

  I learned about, uh, Pol Pot had a

• 1:04:19Michael Malice?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:04:19Chris Williamson?

  He had a series of situations where anybody who wore glasses was immediately killed because people that wore glasses were part of the intellectual bourgeoisie.

• 1:04:32Michael Malice?

  Or didn't have calluses on their hands, I think was another one. They killed a quarter of the population in like, less than a decade.

• 1:04:39Chris Williamson?

  Fucking hell, man. And that's so recent, yeah, it's just, you know, when you see all of this stuff pieced together and the fact that you've got

• 1:04:45Michael Malice?

  Yeah, it's the seventies. This isn't, this isn't like 500 years ago, this is the seventies.

• 1:04:51Chris Williamson?

  Why is it, do you think that we've forgotten just how brutal people can be? Is it just that memories are short? Do we believe, or has the world believed at large that we've transcended the nasty parts of our nature because we've become so enlightened with technology and convenience and stuff?

• 1:05:06Michael Malice?

  Because what's the narrative with Pol Pot? The media can't tell you anything. We didn't do anything about it. I don't know that we could have done anything about it. So when there's no story, corporate America likes to have a story. Everything's going to be fine. You're safe. Just listen to us. And here's an example where that was not the case. And it's like, well, like the Korean War. We talk about World War II. We talk about the Vietnam War. The Korean War was a draw, so no one talks about it because there's no story there. Even though the entire Korean Peninsula was devastated, the Korean people were just decimated, both north and south. But there's no narrative.

• 1:05:42Chris Williamson?

  But what about...

• 1:05:43Michael Malice?

  So again, the media wants to sell a story. They don't want to sell information.

• 1:05:47Chris Williamson?

  What about the people that just exist? Normal, day-to-day people? I think like, if you were to suggest to them that this is something that could happen again, most people would say, no, no, no, of course not. We're past that now.

• 1:06:00Michael Malice?

  Or no, it's also that the Russians are... Russians have always been treated as basically Martians with some good reason. I think the Russian psyche is very different from the Western psyche. But also, it's hard because there was no photographs. So it's one thing when you see it, it's another thing to read about it. If I tell you a sentence, "I saw a pile of starving kids starve to death." Okay, you can read that sentence. It's tough. If I show you a picture of me standing in front of this, this is a whole other situation.

• 1:06:36Chris Williamson?

  Michael Malice, ladies and gentlemen. People want to keep up to date with what you're doing. Where should they go?

• 1:06:43Michael Malice?

  To the psychiatrist.

• 1:06:49Chris Williamson?

  See you soon, man.

• 1:06:52Speaker 02

  Mr. President, my company told me of the explosion on our rig.

• 1:06:56Speaker 03

  On October 2nd.

• 1:06:57Speaker 02

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 1:07:01Speaker 03

  Tom Cruise is.

• 1:07:03Speaker 02

  Digger got us into this mess. And Digger's gonna dig us up.

• 1:07:06Speaker 03

  From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:07:09Speaker 04

  What would happen if I stopped doing it? You stall, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 1:07:13Speaker 03

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:07:16Speaker 04

  I'm not the first there.

• 1:07:17Speaker 03

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a middle without parent.