How To Become An Online Coach | Modern Wisdom 125

Jonny and Yusef from PropaneFitness.com join me today as we talk about how to become an online coach. The opportunity to work from anywhere in the world, coaching clients into amazing shape, all whilst still only wearing your pants is a dream that many offline PTs and entrepreneurs want to achieve. Today we learn about Jonny & Yusef's journey to becoming successful online coaches, their best advice for wantrepreneurs who are just starting out and tactics which you can use as a consumer to protect yourself from giving your hard earned money to someone who doesn't deserve it. Extra Stuff: Get PropaneBusiness's Free 7 Step Plan - http://www.propanefitness.com/modernwisdom Check out everything I recommend from books to products and support Modern Wisdom at no extra cost to you by shopping through this link - https://www.amazon.co.uk/shop/modernwisdom #onlinecoaching #fitness #businessadvice - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: [email protected]

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jonny?

  Yousef, you're a doctor mate, I want abs by next Monday, can you, can you sort that? There's nothing we can do, but give us the right fitness client, get you shredded.

• 0:08Chris Williamson?

  I'm an in gym PT, I'm fucking sick of this, sick of my clients giving me the flu, I want to work in my socks and my pants. I don't want to do this anymore. We have an hour for you to explain to people, should they go online? Do they need to have PT experience first? How do they do it? And give us your best stories.

• 0:28Jonny?

  Don't build a programme, don't get a website, don't make a logo.

• 0:31Chris Williamson?

  You guys work in an industry of charlatans, why?

• 0:33Jonny?

  It's just, it's money, it's profit. It says personal trainer on your back. So everybody in pure gym thinks, that's the guy I go speak to.

• 0:39Chris Williamson?

  Hi, person with personal trainer on their t-shirt, I want a personal trainer.

• 0:43Jonny?

  Exactly.

• 0:43Chris Williamson?

  Nowhere else on the planet does that happen.

• 0:46Jonny?

  When you move into the internet, really, anybody is a client, because most people, or in Yousef's world, everybody has a bodybuilding goal, they just don't realise it.

• 0:54Chris Williamson?

  Are you more talented at coaching coaches, or are you more talented at coaching clients?

• 1:00Chris Williamson?

  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. I'm joined by Dr Ned Flanders.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Highly, hopefully.

• 1:07Chris Williamson?

  And Johnny from Yousef.

• 1:09Jonny?

  Johnny, really?

• 1:10Chris Williamson?

  Johnny from Yousef, Johnny and Yousef for Propane Fitness.

• 1:12Jonny?

  Did you mean to do that?

• 1:13Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 1:15Jonny?

  That's incredible.

• 1:15Chris Williamson?

  Johnny from Yousef, and Yousef who looks like Ned Flanders. To the people that are listening, Yousef has grown a moustache for Movember, and he looks...

• 1:22Speaker 02

  I've been likened to every famous figure with a moustache over the month.

• 1:26Chris Williamson?

  Apart from Tom Selleck, have you had Tom?

• 1:28Speaker 02

  Captain Hook.

• 1:29Jonny?

  You are very Captain Hook at the moment, actually.

• 1:31Speaker 02

  Does he have, he had a like hair as well, yeah?

• 1:32Jonny?

  Yeah. If we get you a hat, a red coat.

• 1:34Speaker 02

  Right, Crash Bandicoot, you know, the, the, the character.

• 1:38Chris Williamson?

  Pudding up.

• 1:38Jonny?

  Pudding up.

• 1:39Speaker 02

  Without Googling it, did he have a chain on his jeans?

• 1:43Jonny?

  Yes, yes. He had blue denim shorts, red shoes and a, and a sort of.

• 1:49Speaker 02

  So Mike did this to me the other day, and he doesn't have a chain, but it just shows the power of suggestibility. I was like, well, yeah. And then we looked it up and he never has a chain, you're like, ah, so that's why I'm thinking Captain Hook maybe didn't have a moustache.

• 2:03Jonny?

  I really thought that that was relevant, but it wasn't.

• 2:06Chris Williamson?

  It's not relevant.

• 2:07Speaker 02

  Because Chris has said, you look like Captain Hook.

• 2:09Chris Williamson?

  Enough, thank you. Uh, okay, today we're going to talk about how to be an online coach. This is what Johnny and Yousef do. The new wing of propane is propane business.

• 2:20Jonny?

  Butane.

• 2:21Chris Williamson?

  You also have a new podcast.

• 2:23Jonny?

  We do.

• 2:24Chris Williamson?

  The Propane Business Podcast.

• 2:27Chris Williamson?

  I mean, it's not technically called that. What's it called?

• 2:30Speaker 02

  If you search propane business on iTunes, you'll get it. It's called.

• 2:33Chris Williamson?

  Grow your, grow your online fitness business. The reason that it's not called the propane business podcast is there are a group of people who make money from selling propane.

• 2:43Chris Williamson?

  Via a business. As a result.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  They own the domain.

• 2:47Chris Williamson?

  We don't, they do own the domain.

• 2:48Speaker 02

  And they sold, they wanted to sell it for thirty six thousand dollars to us and we said, no, thank you.

• 2:55Chris Williamson?

  Propane business for people who want to get into the butane. Into the propane business, yeah. You know Hank from King of the Hill? Yeah. That's what he does. He's in the propane business.

• 3:05Speaker 02

  And accessories for.

• 3:07Chris Williamson?

  Okay. Propane and propane accessories. So there will be some people listening who think I'm an in gym P T. I'm fucking sick of this, sick of my clients giving me the flu. I want to work in my socks and my pants. I don't want to do this anymore. Um, and I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna open the floor to you guys. We have an hour for you to explain to people, should they go online? Uh, should they, do they need to have P T experience first? How do they do it? And give us your best stories. So where, where do we start? You're doing an M O T of someone who's about to go online, maybe. Okay. Where do you start? You've just got all the answers for this, so. Cool.

• 3:47Speaker 02

  So with, this is where the hot potato gets passed into direct. So with this, I think that's an important observation of I want to work in my socks and pants at home. Like it sounds silly, but it is actually like, you need to think, how do you want your life to look day to day? And so a lot of people don't do this and they just feel like, oh, I'm interested in like lift biceps and stuff. So I'm going to go and do a personal training qualification. And they realize the reality of it is working in pure gyms or slinking around and like sleazing on people to try and like gain new clients and working long hours, exchanging time for money and generally just having a bit of a rubbish time.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  Whereas if you set your goal on how do I want my life to look and then reverse engineer it rather than I like this and so I'm going to do this and not think about what the outcome ends up as. You're going to.

• 4:41Chris Williamson?

  Some people might like the idea of being on the feet, talking, interacting one to one.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  Oh, in that case, but you're a great, great fit for a P T.

• 4:48Jonny?

  Quite a lot of people don't want to be exclusively online for that reason. Because especially if you've gone from being an online coach, being an offline coach to full online.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  It's the most ironically sedentary.

• 4:59Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  Activity.

• 5:01Chris Williamson?

  The least fit person ever.

• 5:02Jonny?

  You go, you go from waking up at six in the morning and like non-stop till nine at night to just you wake up in your own.

• 5:10Chris Williamson?

  Laptop open.

• 5:11Jonny?

  All day.

• 5:11Chris Williamson?

  Send email.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  We've actually spoken to an online coach, we're not going to say his name, but at the end of an interview with him, he, he was like, so I've been coaching people online to get shredded for, for ages, but look at me. And he stood up, lifted up his shirt and just went like with his like.

• 5:26Chris Williamson?

  Fat.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  Rules. And he was like, it doesn't matter. No one knows that I'm, that I'm fat. It's fine. So.

• 5:33Jonny?

  Very, very well known guy as well.

• 5:35Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 5:35Chris Williamson?

  So let's say that someone, the most common person I think that's going to be listening or that's going to be interested, the most representative example for people who aren't coaches is going to be an in gym P T.

• 5:47Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 5:48Chris Williamson?

  Maybe been a P T for three years, good client.

• 5:51Jonny?

  Yep.

• 5:52Chris Williamson?

  But they've realised, hang on, unless I start putting my price up to fifty, sixty, seventy.

• 5:57Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 5:58Chris Williamson?

  U- units per hour, the fifty fifty U K U S.

• 6:01Speaker 02

  Newton minutes or something.

• 6:03Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  Newton meters per hour.

• 6:04Jonny?

  Kilowatt hours.

• 6:05Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 6:06Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 6:06Chris Williamson?

  And they're like, I want to earn some more money. What do they do?

• 6:09Jonny?

  Yeah. So the biggest mistake that people make in that transition is they think being an online coach is the same as being an offline coach. So when you are like in Pure Gym with the words personal trainer written on your back, they, you don't realise it, but Pure Gym have done all of the work for you. Like they've brought the people to the door, they've made them pay, which is a big deal because you, all you're dealing with is people who are paying for fitness, which is massive.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  Just be there and not creep.

• 6:37Jonny?

  And you've got words on your back that say you're the expert. Anyone, you can have a fucking clue, but it says personal trainer on your back. So everybody in Pure Gym thinks, oh, fucking hell, that's the guy I go speak to.

• 6:46Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 6:46Jonny?

  And people still struggle.

• 6:49Jonny?

  So that person is struggling, they're like, I've only got twenty clients, thirty quid an hour, bitch shit, six in the morning, nine at night, don't see my friends at the weekend, I know, I'll go online. What do people want? A recipe book. That's what everyone wants, they want a recipe book. So I'll make a recipe book, I'll make a logo, I'll spend five grand on a website. And I'll just try and do the same thing on the internet. And the analogy we use is you're like, you're the pervert at the family barbecue. Because everyone's scrolling down, it's like, cat photo, cat photo, funny video, Brexit, Brexit, baby, baby. Someone tries something, I'm like, fuck off, like ban, block, complain. And they're like, oh, but I've only got ten spaces.

• 7:28Jonny?

  So, you know, comment below, tag, tag, it's just not, it doesn't work. So basically, in the current market, online market, or probably any industry, if you just shoot from the head and try and sell fat loss on the internet. Like, because we were able to do that when we started, but the

• 7:46Speaker 02

  In two thousand and eight, it worked because

• 7:48Jonny?

  Like pre credit crisis.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  That's because

• 7:51Chris Williamson?

  Did you cause the credit crisis?

• 7:52Jonny?

  Basically, yeah, we posted on Facebook and that was it.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  Like, that was in, back in the day, it was beautiful, where you could post on Facebook and get two hundred likes for sharing like a Daily Mail article. You would, you could rank on the first page of Google for writing an article about doms or Ramadan, or like, well, actually, no, even about like much more basic stuff than that, like hypertrophy, how to hypertrophy.

• 8:16Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  Top page of

• 8:16Chris Williamson?

  I want, I want a hypertrophy, Google preferred.

• 8:19Jonny?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. First page of Google, whereas now, you just weren't.

• 8:24Chris Williamson?

  Much more sophisticated.

• 8:25Jonny?

  Well, or just, you know, there's a wider market, so the market's massive. Um, and there are easily enough clients to go around.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  Hey Siri.

• 8:35Jonny?

  Anyone? Anyone have any idea?

• 8:38Chris Williamson?

  Are you leaning on your iPhone?

• 8:42Jonny?

  Home.

• 8:44Jonny?

  Can we turn it off now?

• 8:48Jonny?

  Moving on, the the market's a lot more sophisticated. The market's a lot more, well, the market's massive, but there are a lot more people trying to do it. Um, because a lot more people are disillusioned with P T offline. So you just have to be more specific with with who you try to reach and that.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, that that's interesting that like the the bottleneck is sales when you're working in the pure gym. But they don't realise it because most of the the front end work's been done. But then when they go online, the bottleneck is much harder and it's still sales. But yeah, people think it's the recipe book or whatever. And I think part of the problem is thinking identifying the wrong bottleneck with your whole process. And then trying to fix it. And the most common one is like, I'm a P T and I've done me level for uh, active I Q certification, then I've got me Nassim level one and I'm gonna do me advanced nutritional counselling

• 9:44Speaker 02

  for for for for women aged between sixty and sixty five um, to help with with food intolerances and I've done me celiac certification and me pregnancy and you're like.

• 9:55Jonny?

  A kettlebell level ten.

• 9:57Speaker 02

  It's like, because they think it's like little feathers to their, what is it, feathers to their bow?

• 10:01Jonny?

  Cap, yeah.

• 10:02Speaker 02

  Strings to the cap.

• 10:03Jonny?

  String to the cap.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  Skin off their nose, whatever. And whereas like, I would say any of that education is that should be off your own back for your own sense of internal pride. And really get that from a textbook. Don't pay like two grand for a kettlebell certification.

• 10:19Jonny?

  That's the same person who says like, you know, Joe Wicks is a, you know, tosser and he doesn't know anything.

• 10:24Speaker 02

  So no one cares if Joe Wicks has a kettlebell.

• 10:26Jonny?

  Well, look, look at the numbers.

• 10:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:28Jonny?

  Look, a lot more people care about Joe Wicks.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  He's got a recipe book.

• 10:32Jonny?

  He does have a recipe book. He's got a number of recipes. He does. So back to why that's important. And I'll get onto the recipe book in a second. The what Pure Gym have done is brought a certain person in, they trust, they trust the environment they're in, they don't like, they don't approach a P T and think, oh, I might get scammed here.

• 10:50Chris Williamson?

  Yep.

• 10:51Jonny?

  There's an, there's an environment, you have to create all of that yourself online.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  Cause you've got the institutional.

• 10:56Jonny?

  Yeah, you're in a gym, you're in a gym, it's a brand, everyone knows who you are.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  But you trust the Tesco guy, you go into Tesco and you don't think, oh, he might.

• 11:04Chris Williamson?

  Which, yeah, I need to find out where the cereal is and he says, I'll like Batman symbol queue and you're like, hang on a second, I'm not sure if you know what you're talking about.

• 11:12Jonny?

  And there's like a green button that says add to car and yeah.

• 11:15Chris Williamson?

  Are you sure?

• 11:16Jonny?

  Exactly. Um, and then, so like your website, your persona online, everything has to create that. So you have to somehow be seen as trusted, as an expert, as having the answers by someone. And the easiest way to do that is to pick a specific person who would naturally see you as that. I realise I'm going around the houses here, but the point is like, we.

• 11:40Jonny?

  It was a weird noise. We started working with students because we just finished being students and because we intimately understood students. So to a student, us versus a, you know, a coach who's 10 years older or whatever, we're much more likely to be seen as an expert because we know exactly what they're going through. We've had results in that environment and our markets change as we've grown, grown up and, you know, we now mainly work with people who are where we were before we moved into propane, which is finance and corporate busy. So it's far easier to create that Pure Gym feeling when you're seen as someone who's just, oh, well, they get me, they understand me. So they're saying things that are relevant.

• 12:19Chris Williamson?

  You need to be seen with some authority, you need to be trusted. And what was the third one?

• 12:25Jonny?

  Well, know, like and trust is like the thing that's.

• 12:27Chris Williamson?

  Know.

• 12:28Jonny?

  So they know you, they know who you are, they, they trust you and they like you. So, you know, if they make you laugh, if they're, if it's engaging, they relate to what you're saying.

• 12:37Chris Williamson?

  It's super interesting that you talk about how, um, the offline, normal, in gym P T environment has pre-selected for that. Uh, so Lewis, housemate who's upstairs at the moment, he was at the gym. And I don't know if you know the way that their P T uh, structure is set up, but they have no rental costs for being in the gym. They just need to do, I think it's six hours of reception. Per week.

• 13:03Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 13:03Chris Williamson?

  Um. And I thought, wow, that's an amazing deal. When you actually scale up six hours by four over a month at forty pounds per hour, or whatever you're gonna charge, I'm actually like, hang on a second. I could maybe be working more, but then you think, well, I can slot things around it. But the main thing, and this is why I was saying to him, he was talking, do I go into a private studio? Should I go away? And I was like, bro, if you've got slots left in your calendar, or slots left in your weekly schedule, I would just stand on reception. These people are the hottest leads in the world. They're coming to you and saying, hi, person with personal trainer on their T-shirt, I want a personal trainer.

• 13:40Jonny?

  Exactly.

• 13:41Chris Williamson?

  Nowhere else on the planet does that happen. Apart from like the Yellow Pages back in nineteen ninety-two. Do you know, when you'd look down, it would be like, Arthur Andersen, uh, painter. Oh, well, he's, he's top of the pitch. Oh, he's paid for a friend as well.

• 13:56Jonny?

  It's Aaron Aronson.

• 13:57Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, Aaron Aronson. Yeah, exactly.

• 13:59Jonny?

  It's even better than that because the people in the gym are like, they're by definition a series because they've paid to be there.

• 14:08Chris Williamson?

  It's an up sell. It's an up sell, not you know.

• 14:10Jonny?

  Yeah, yeah. So like, being a P T in like a David Lloyd, like, you know, one thing for sure about everybody in there, and that is that they're paying a decent monthly rate.

• 14:19Speaker 02

  That is a good point. Like, the lead quality is great because they're in the gym. Like, they're not, they're not just paid to offset their guilt and haven't gone in. They've actually turned up at the gym too.

• 14:27Jonny?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Massive.

• 14:28Chris Williamson?

  Okay.

• 14:28Jonny?

  Yet they still have a sales problem.

• 14:30Chris Williamson?

  We're talking to people who are probably offline P Ts or people who are just interested in this industry overall. But are there any analogous situations for this? I guess someone potentially who's like a, a counsellor who works one to one with people perhaps doing therapy, or anyone else who's like that, who's thinking about going online. Do you think that these are? Universal rules are at least like applicable to some other, or have you considered any other?

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think any freelance job. So yeah, councillor, painter, therapist.

• 15:03Chris Williamson?

  An online painter?

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Well, so like, anything where.

• 15:08Chris Williamson?

  It's the worst example.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  I'll explain. So anything where there is a potential to be working with an institution or working on.

• 15:18Chris Williamson?

  Ah, I see, understood.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  Got it. So, so either with a P T, if you, if you're choosing to be purely offline, then you're either, yeah, working with the institution of Pure Gym, or you have your own personal brand that you've built and then you can bring people into that and then you offer whatever you want with that. If you're a painter, you can't do a lot online unless you go into like information products, but we don't know how, what the market is like for information products for painters.

• 15:42Chris Williamson?

  How to be a painter?

• 15:43Speaker 02

  How to be a painter, feel like a handyman or something. But what you can do is leverage your time and use that expertise to say, right, I'm gonna build a team around me and.

• 15:53Chris Williamson?

  Teach them how to be painters and focus on B D M.

• 15:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, is that, that where you, where you put a ball in your mouth and you have to whip each other? Um, so if you're a, if you're a handyman, the biggest market I see, and I'm sure you, you'll have experienced this pain, well, actually, we will, we will experience this pain horribly is there's a huge gap for P A's for handymen or for builders where they just tell them, right, you're here on Tuesday, you're there on Thursday, that's where you go.

• 16:23Chris Williamson?

  So effortful, the discussion backwards and forwards with anyone who's in that handyman, plumber, painter, carpenter, fucking electrician thing, like.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  Trades.

• 16:31Chris Williamson?

  Ring the person, hi mate, can you do this job? Um, are you available at this time? Here's the address, here's the phone number of the person who you need to speak to, or it's me, or hang on, I need to rearrange, like, none of that has got anything to do with your expertise as a fucking handyman.

• 16:49Speaker 02

  The thing is though, is that, that, so that will exist through bigger companies, but it'll be a lot more expensive. And like, would you pay double? Cause you've got to pay for the P A and the plumber. That's it. So, so if you can charge like a ten, twenty percent premium or whatever it is to cover your costs and then just operate that at scale. And, and if.

• 17:06Chris Williamson?

  Fuck it. What are we talking about coaches for?

• 17:08Speaker 02

  Electricians.

• 17:09Chris Williamson?

  Where the gap is.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  D M us.

• 17:10Chris Williamson?

  Where the gap, where the gap really is, is creating a piece of software. Make a SaaS product that is for trade, software as a service. So create a platform that organizes tradesmen.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 17:22Chris Williamson?

  Uber the trains.

• 17:23Jonny?

  We've got to delete that because someone will steal that.

• 17:24Chris Williamson?

  Well, it's like my trusted trader and my trader and stuff like that do the sourcing of it.

• 17:29Jonny?

  Check a trade dot com.

• 17:30Speaker 02

  But not the actual organising of it.

• 17:32Chris Williamson?

  You watch a lot of TV, don't you?

• 17:34Jonny?

  It's actually more of a radio thing that.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  And you get loads of.

• 17:36Jonny?

  And I listen to so much radio.

• 17:38Chris Williamson?

  Remember when we told an entire room of radio presenters that the only time we ever listened to radio is before our Bluetooth connected.

• 17:43Jonny?

  I think it was the like the bosses of a big radio company.

• 17:47Speaker 02

  Conglomerate.

• 17:48Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, it was technically.

• 17:51Jonny?

  Think of a big radio station, the owners of them, we told them that radio was shit.

• 17:57Chris Williamson?

  Immediately after someone told them that ninety three percent of people in the UK listen to radio at least once a week. And we looked at each other and went.

• 18:05Jonny?

  No, they don't.

• 18:06Chris Williamson?

  You fucking liar. Okay, so I'm gonna, I'm thinking about how a sales page works here. Where's your authority? Why should the people that we're speaking to listen to you? Like, what, what, what, what license have you got to talk to anyone about how it would be an online?

• 18:19Speaker 02

  Really good question. And it's also what you should ask yourself whenever you're offering a service is like, have I achieved the thing which I'm professing? Have I achieved the result that I'm professing that I'm going to get for other people? And so the same way that you wouldn't trust a fat personal trainer, you wouldn't trust a car, a car driving instructor that has no license. You have to, and, and the great thing is you don't need to be the world record holding authority on that thing. You just need to be a chapter ahead of whatever you're offering to someone.

• 18:52Chris Williamson?

  How many chapters ahead do you think you guys are? Because I've, I, I know the answer to this.

• 18:56Jonny?

  So we. Probably the entire book, probably the encyclopedia.

• 18:59Chris Williamson?

  No, I'm joking.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  We, we market to people who are like us five years ago.

• 19:04Jonny?

  I think us ten years ago.

• 19:05Chris Williamson?

  But you've done a lot in five years. You've done a lot more than most people would. So take us, so you've been online coaches for ten years.

• 19:13Jonny?

  So we, so ProPen started about a decade ago.

• 19:18Jonny?

  As a blog, gained traction, got a few clients, slowly trickled along. We figured out, right, we need to figure out how to market this. Bought a bought like our first course to learn like the basics and then since then of I mean, I don't know how much money you've invested. It would probably make me angry. It's more than it's way more than that.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  Oh, actually include all the like software and stuff as well.

• 19:44Jonny?

  So lots of money in learning how to market it. We've been doing it.

• 19:48Speaker 02

  You can't add spend as as tuition fee as well, then it's.

• 19:51Jonny?

  Nausea. I will be sick. Um, yeah, so we've been doing it full time. I mean, you've. You've done a bit of other stuff like you did a medical degree and. Black rock. But yeah, um, but since twenty sixteen full time. So, um. We're not like, I I think our selling point, as far as we see it, is there are two ways to succeed with this stuff, really. One is you hit. So the biggest, the best example of of the way that we don't do is James Smith and what's happened to him. So he.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  Let's talk about that in a second.

• 20:25Jonny?

  Okay, all right. So we we don't have any of that. If anyone follows us, like they'll they'll know that we don't have five hundred thousand followers on Instagram or anything like that.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  But not internet personalities.

• 20:34Jonny?

  No, no, um, we we run things very much from any, like, we have systems that do the work for us. We figured we figured it out, I suppose, the long frustrating way that. You know, if you leverage sales and marketing properly, you can use advertising software systems to bring clients in in a in a fairly repeatable way.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Passive.

• 20:54Jonny?

  Yeah, it's more it's there's a lot more work to get it set up, but there's more predictability over it. It's less like, will my video go viral? Yes or no? Will. The platform change and take likes, comments away? There's none of that, but there is there's other other uncertainties and difficulties.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  It's probably the difference between like setting up an intricate set of pipes and stuff that spits out like a bowl of cereal at the end. And you and you just go, I'm just gonna pour that much milk into the top and it goes, hmm, and makes the bowl of cereal. Compared to just getting your hosepipe out and just being like.

• 21:23Jonny?

  And hoping a bit goes in the bowl.

• 21:25Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, and sometimes loads goes in.

• 21:27Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 21:27Chris Williamson?

  Sometimes not.

• 21:27Jonny?

  And those days are great.

• 21:28Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 21:29Jonny?

  Those days are the best.

• 21:30Chris Williamson?

  Okay, so you've talked about some of the things that you guys have done. I want the listeners, the ones who are still with us, who are not perfectly interested in.

• 21:38Jonny?

  What are you talking about?

• 21:39Chris Williamson?

  What about fucking online coaches? Um, I want to hear a round robin for the next ten to fifteen minutes of the funniest situations you've encountered. Whilst learning about being an online coach.

• 21:55Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 21:55Chris Williamson?

  So I want to hear.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  Some of the fails.

• 21:56Chris Williamson?

  I want to hear the story about when you went to go see James Smith live and you thought he was going to give you the keys. Uh, I want to hear the story, I want to hear the story about, um.

• 22:07Chris Williamson?

  I want to hear the story about, I'm not being funny, right? Uh, I want to hear the one about the brain problem.

• 22:12Jonny?

  Oh my god.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  You know what? These, these really like.

• 22:15Jonny?

  Look at him getting, he's getting fomer, he hasn't written them down.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  My phone's too bloody big, I can't flex my hip with. So the, these actually come very much into the, what we were saying about. Getting your like level three kettlebell certification, all this stuff that you go to. Like some kind, so like an Eric Helms event, which.

• 22:36Chris Williamson?

  So for the people who aren't listening, who's that?

• 22:37Speaker 02

  So he's, he's.

• 22:39Chris Williamson?

  People who aren't listening. For the people who aren't listening.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  You almost got away with that.

• 22:44Chris Williamson?

  I know.

• 22:45Jonny?

  I, it was sounding perfectly fine to me.

• 22:46Chris Williamson?

  You said from Johnny, um, uh, for the people who don't know who Eric Helms is or three D muscle journey.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, so like someone who, he's a um, PhD researcher and bodybuilder, talks about the, the mechanisms of. And physiology of muscle metabolism and hypertrophy.

• 23:04Chris Williamson?

  He's a big deal.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  He's a big deal, but it, but it's very, it's something that personal trainers love to nerd out on. And we, we did as well, like we turned up and we were like, oh, you know, learn some stuff about this. But the kind of questions that you have, you have people asking.

• 23:16Chris Williamson?

  So why, why are we there? Why would people, so there's an online coach.

• 23:20Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 23:20Chris Williamson?

  There's an online coach who's listening to this and thinking, I might go to James Smith's new training seminar. I might go to Eric Helms's new this, I might go to Paul Mort's new whatever. Why do people go? What do they want?

• 23:32Speaker 02

  Well, so, so.

• 23:32Chris Williamson?

  The answers.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  I think it's perfectly fine to go, but yeah, they, they want the, the secret, the thing.

• 23:37Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  And the questions that they're asking, if it's on behalf of clients, it's like, you don't need to be asking that. It's just.

• 23:43Chris Williamson?

  What like?

• 23:44Speaker 02

  So, so like.

• 23:46Speaker 03

  Eric, Eric, I have a client, she on her period, but normally she's got seventy two point five kilograms. This week, Tuesday, she's got seventy kilograms for four reps. She cannot do more. Is this because, can you stop creating on period for any?

• 24:05Speaker 02

  You're like, you're getting so bogged down and like, it's not gonna help you get more clients, it's not gonna help you be a better personal trainer.

• 24:11Jonny?

  Or better anything. And you see, you can see, because obviously these people have been asked these questions lots and you watch like, someone asked a question.

• 24:20Chris Williamson?

  Period question.

• 24:21Jonny?

  Well, it's, it's, there's an archetype of someone goes, Eric, yes, I do have a question pertaining. And as soon as someone says pertaining or like, implementate.

• 24:31Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 24:32Jonny?

  Or anything like that, red, red fly warning, the klaxon goes off.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  Do you remember?

• 24:37Chris Williamson?

  What about if someone opens up with a title that they have? So like, as a personal trainer of fifteen years.

• 24:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely love that.

• 24:46Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  Do you remember the one, there was one, there was a bit where Eric was talking about, and I'm getting somewhere with this point, just so.

• 24:52Jonny?

  I don't care, I just wanna hear funny stories. Is it the patrol?

• 24:55Speaker 02

  Oh, so, so he was talking about, um, he was like, okay, so when you're, when you're setting up someone's diet and periodizing, you wanna have, let's say for example, um, five low calorie days, where you have moderate protein, moderate carbohydrate, low fat. And then two days of refeed where you have higher carbohydrate and you, you cycle that through and, uh, Eric, Eric, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I've just got a question pertaining to, um, the, uh, the, the, the aforementioned status of, of, of diet periodizing that you just, just mentioned there. Um, how would one, you know, how, how would one, um, implementate that along with a carb cycling protocol?

• 25:39Speaker 02

  And he was like, well, um, I mean, this kind of is carb cycling.

• 25:44Chris Williamson?

  It, yeah. So you need to be aware that when you go to these things, that people might ask questions that are either too nuanced or ones that where they're trying to sound too clever.

• 25:56Speaker 02

  It's, it's because of the lack, like they, they don't. They're coming at it from like you need to have some kind of goal of what am I going to this for? Like, am I going for my own education? In which case, just sit and listen. If not, if it's for like.

• 26:10Chris Williamson?

  And ask a question that interests you.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And whereas if it's something to make you a better personal trainer, that is not, that it's never going to be the bottleneck unless you're like terrible at what you do. Because most of the time, the the limiting factor with your client's result is not protein synthesis or like how.

• 26:28Chris Williamson?

  Their period.

• 26:28Speaker 02

  Their their period or like how many grams of creatine they have post-workout or is it pretty?

• 26:32Chris Williamson?

  It's their compliance, it's their total weekly volume.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  It's your rapport with them.

• 26:36Jonny?

  Being a being a human, like treating someone like a human and being a human is is like one of the biggest things.

• 26:41Chris Williamson?

  Why? So why do you think, this is veering off, I want to get back to funny stories in a second.

• 26:48Chris Williamson?

  Us three here know that the secret to getting in good shape isn't really a secret and it's really quite basic. It's move more than you eat, control the processed foods that you have, try and do progressive overload, try and lift heavy three times a week, try and get some sort of fresh air, try and get some daylight, sleep well. That's it, that's it. Why is the fitness industry so abound with different approaches to achieving that? Is it because, this is my theory, I'll see what you think. Um, the route from input to output, the process that people go through to get there is so opaque and so difficult to see. That it allows everyone to be like, what's in the magic box?

• 27:31Chris Williamson?

  My magic box is the faster, quicker, superior magic box.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  The only, it's the only way to get to this, like.

• 27:38Chris Williamson?

  Why? Why is it allowing, because it's a it's a fucking industry, you guys work in an industry of charlatans.

• 27:42Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 27:43Chris Williamson?

  Why?

• 27:43Jonny?

  It's just, it's money, it's profit, like. Whenever in any, and you can see this in anything where the process is, the answer, the true answer is like a few things done every day for two years. Like saving money, for example, like becoming wealthy, the answer is never.

• 28:01Chris Williamson?

  Like this Forex.

• 28:02Jonny?

  In a book on a course in a like in a Forex masterclass.

• 28:06Chris Williamson?

  It's all this technical analysis.

• 28:07Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 28:08Chris Williamson?

  System of of triggers and entry points.

• 28:10Jonny?

  It's the fundamentals done for a very long time. And that and people don't want to hear that. And that creates a gap for people who are really good at marketing to make a lot of money.

• 28:19Chris Williamson?

  Cool.

• 28:20Jonny?

  And.

• 28:20Chris Williamson?

  What what what what else we got? I want to hear what happened when you went to go see James Smith? Because you've identified the fact that you guys aren't. You there's too broadly two categories, I think, of online.

• 28:31Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 28:31Chris Williamson?

  Coach.

• 28:32Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 28:32Chris Williamson?

  There's the James Smith and there's the propane fitness. Propane fitness would be more um analytical with regards to the way that they've got sales funnel set up. They're using ads cleverly, they're using spend online.

• 28:44Jonny?

  I think we we see it as where where like the where the everyman option. Like, not everyone can be James Smith by definition. I think that's like everybody trying to be on Coronation Street or Hollyoaks. Or, you know, like, you need to be a certain type of person for that to work.

• 28:59Chris Williamson?

  If you make it, great.

• 29:00Jonny?

  Yeah, you sort it and it's easy to look back and go, oh, yeah, just you want to go to acting school. And, you know, you can you can map out the path that you took to get there.

• 29:07Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 29:08Jonny?

  But actually, the reason is your charisma, the way you look, that and and James is obviously great at that stuff.

• 29:13Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 29:14Jonny?

  And that was, you know, the the elephant in the room for us in that entire seminar was like half the people asking questions. Like, they're they're quiet, they're shy, and James naturally is not that.

• 29:26Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 29:26Jonny?

  And that's going to be the biggest difference. But that beside the point. So we we teach people a way to just not to be run an academy with thousands of people in it. Just how might you go about replacing what you were as an offline coach as an online coach? And if you could just do the same income in a way that was a bit allowed you not more a lot more flexibility. That's attainable for everyone. It's not going to make you a millionaire, but it's achievable. And we do that with like marketing and sales, the basics of marketing.

• 29:55Chris Williamson?

  And there's nothing that stops you from doing what, again, my housemate Lewis is looking at doing, which is. Augmenting his existing offline.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, we've, we've had many people that we've worked with that have, you know, doubled or tripled or like in one case, a couple of cases, like six, seven times their, their income to like sort of ten, ten, fifteen grand a month. But they still want to do some offline personal training stuff.

• 30:20Chris Williamson?

  I think I would as well.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:22Chris Williamson?

  I'd want to keep my foot in the thing. I'd have some clients that I'd be mates with.

• 30:24Speaker 02

  They just want to keep their foot in the thing. Just, yeah, just foot on the ground and, and like have some level, because they get some level of satisfaction from it. And what's better is that they can then handpick the best offline clients that they have.

• 30:37Chris Williamson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  Charge a higher rate and just sack off the pain in the arse ones.

• 30:41Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 30:42Speaker 02

  And then just focus on.

• 30:43Chris Williamson?

  Cool.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  Online work.

• 30:44Chris Williamson?

  Who else, who else have you been to see? So you have this Eric Elms that what about, what are some of the other things that people should be concerned about before they sign up to a seminar?

• 30:52Jonny?

  Oh, my God.

• 30:53Chris Williamson?

  Like.

• 30:53Jonny?

  Where to begin with that? Like so, some of the things, some of the situations I've been in with you, Seth, like, so it's hard to describe because you have to, the more you know yourself, the funnier the whole thing is, but it, you, Seth is, you've got to remember the sort of guy who went to Blythe. Is it Blythe?

• 31:11Chris Williamson?

  To be in a cult.

• 31:12Jonny?

  To be in a cult where he ended up lying down on the ground because everyone around him was dancing and he didn't get it. But he still went for 12 weeks. So like, if someone says, this is the way to do it, you said, he'll do it. The, the first business coach we hired told us to, um,

• 31:30Jonny?

  basically, we, we did like a boosted post Facebook ad, which is not never, you know.

• 31:36Speaker 02

  Do not. If you mention boosted post in front of Johnny.

• 31:40Chris Williamson?

  He's allergic. He actually had an anaphylactic reaction.

• 31:42Jonny?

  It's a great way. You get a lot of exposure, but it literally just anybody can come into your world. There's no targeting or, or measurability to anything you do. And that's what happened. Loads of people booked one of these free coaching calls with us, which is what we're told to do. And we're good students. So that's what we did. And we spent about, I mean, probably a hundred hours on the phone.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  So just to give you some context for this as well, like this is a man who was bragging about the fact that he. Put makes people brings people to tears during the sales calls all the time bragging that he got a single mum to remortgage a house so that she could sign up for his.

• 32:14Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 32:14Speaker 02

  Um.

• 32:14Jonny?

  It really is.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  For his fitness product. And the sales script they give you is really manipulative and really like just.

• 32:21Jonny?

  Pain point.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 32:22Jonny?

  Yeah, you encourage to make people cry, NLP. And so we we've been doing this for a while. We'd have mixed success with it. You said lost a friend over the.

• 32:31Speaker 02

  I remember feeling like nauseous while doing these calls. It was like this is just so not in line with who we are as people. But we're like, well, we've got to follow the process because we've paid five grand for it. So.

• 32:40Jonny?

  You said did a live on the on a call with this guy, a live role play where Yusuf was the client and this guy was trying to close Yusuf and Yusuf just kept. So the guy was like, it's five nine nine five for my program. Yusuf was like, okay. The guy was like, what do you think? He's like, I think it's too expensive. The guy's like, what do you mean by that? But well, it's beyond what I feel comfortable paying. But what do you mean by that? Well, it's. I'm unable to pay that today, so I won't be proceeding. And the guy just continued. And we've been in so many, like, on the other end of sales calls.

• 33:21Jonny?

  The guy guy trying to sell us this program where he just kept saying, so what's next? So he would say something. I I sat next to Yusuf. The guy was like, so you know, this is the program and so what's next? And Yusuf just kept saying something. And it got to the end and the guy went, so so what? Guys, what's next? Yusuf turned to me and just went.

• 33:46Speaker 02

  Because I suppose like.

• 33:47Jonny?

  It's just weird.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  Being on a sales call, like, both people have to be playing the game, don't they?

• 33:50Jonny?

  Yeah, yeah, you can't. If one person just isn't bought into the game. Can't be adversarial. So I suppose the the lesson is, like, the world of people selling marketing advice to personal trainers is a really. Like, there there'd be dragons for sure. Like, there are people who have zero experience in what they're teaching, like, have legitimately. Never run a fitness business, but see an opportunity. And it's the same way in the fitness world. Grand card. People who. I've never bought anything from Grant Cardone, so.

• 34:21Chris Williamson?

  But it is Grant Cardone.

• 34:22Speaker 02

  Have you seen the contrapreneur?

• 34:23Jonny?

  I have, yeah.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:24Jonny?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:25Speaker 02

  But not the interview, the actual.

• 34:27Jonny?

  Is mentory. Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it supposed to be Grant Cardone?

• 34:30Chris Williamson?

  It is Grant Cardone.

• 34:31Jonny?

  Right, okay. I mean, the, the accent sort of.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  Quite blatantly.

• 34:34Jonny?

  Gives it, yeah.

• 34:35Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 34:35Chris Williamson?

  He's got a link that says eleven X on it.

• 34:38Jonny?

  Right, oh, right, yeah. I think, right, okay. So, I mean, in the same way that there are people selling, like, weight loss powder, weight loss pills in the fitness market, there's the same thing in, in this market, but it's more when people are like messing with their life savings or, you know, remortgaging things because they've been sold this dream gets a bit.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  That's true, like, you've got to be really aware of, like, and I suppose in any industry, like, once more people are making money from selling how to make money than, than the thing itself, you've got to be.

• 35:07Jonny?

  You've got to really worry.

• 35:08Chris Williamson?

  But the principle from Mike Winnett from The Contrapreneur, the whole principle behind that is why, if someone had the secret, would they turn their customers into competitors?

• 35:18Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 35:19Chris Williamson?

  That's what he asks.

• 35:20Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 35:21Chris Williamson?

  Like, and, yeah, it's not quite a zero sum game, but like, there's only, especially when you're talking UK audience.

• 35:28Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 35:29Chris Williamson?

  There's only sixty five million people here. That's, for you, I'm gonna guess, what's a good sized audience for you to target? Three mil? Four mil for you?

• 35:38Jonny?

  You mean on, like, on Facebook or on internet? I mean, like, four hundred thousand would be like a one percent of the UK audience.

• 35:44Chris Williamson?

  Minimum, like, bottom end.

• 35:46Jonny?

  Yeah, I mean, the, the thing is.

• 35:47Chris Williamson?

  Okay, so out of all of the people, you only have a hundred of them. You only have a hundred one percent.

• 35:52Jonny?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:53Chris Williamson?

  Like, that's not that many.

• 35:55Jonny?

  So the, pe- people ask us this question a lot, like, if, if you're doing fitness and it's going so well, why are you teaching personal trainers? And I, I definitely get where that question's coming from, because it feels like, you know, what the fuck are you doing? You're scamming me.

• 36:09Chris Williamson?

  Yep.

• 36:10Jonny?

  But the, the reality of the market is, one. Most people, most coaches couldn't handle even a hundred people online, like the vast majority. So when you consider the market, when, when you're in a, when you're in like Newcastle and you're a P T, you immediately think of it as, well, there's me, there's that gym down the road, there's that CrossFit gym and that's got all those main P Ts in. Like you think in a very competitive sense. When you move into the internet, really, anybody is a client. Because most people or in YouTube's world, everybody has a bodybuilding goal, they just don't realise it. So like you can legitimately work with anybody with internet connection. Seven billion people. Yeah. Wow. And, and when we talk about.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Fitness industry is so big.

• 36:51Jonny?

  It's huge.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  Cause everyone does.

• 36:53Jonny?

  Everyone has a bodybuilding goal. Yeah. Um, we talk about this idea of a freedom number of the point at which you've replaced your offline income with online coaching. And either doubled your income or you can move into online coaching full time. To get that, you need like twenty people. So like, if all we do. What do you, what you, what's like typical charging? You're charging something like a hundred pounds a month? Yeah, between a hundred and two hundred quid a month is like average online at the moment for a monthly rate. So if we help even a thousand people do that, it's not even putting, like, it's not even making the tiniest dent in the fitness industry. Like even in like the north east of England, it would affect us. And so when people say that, you're like, fuck off. You're like, do you just sit and think about it for a, for a second?

• 37:34Jonny?

  Do you think, I say it's a question for you. Are you a better online coach, coach or an online coach, better online coach?

• 37:42Speaker 02

  With a, with, with, with a saying, the, the material is different because.

• 37:45Jonny?

  No, like, I, you. Do you know our ability? Yeah. Are you more talented at coaching coaches or are you more talented at coaching clients? It depends for us, for me especially. Well, I think for both of us, it depends on the fitness client. Cause we'll have some fitness clients who are, we work really well with people who are like analytically minded. So we'll have some clients who come in, who like have listened to a podcast and you give them a little bit of information and you come, they come back and they've devoured all of the members area, all the podcasts and they're shredded.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  It's a bit like you leave someone in the kitchen with like a pot of dry rice.

• 38:18Jonny?

  And a cookery book.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  A, a, a garlic clove and yeah, and like cookery book and like whatever. And you come back and they've just made a, a feast with noodles and you're like, oh.

• 38:28Jonny?

  And then there's some other people. Well, so we, I mean, you probably get this, like we, we aren't like promoting, um.

• 38:38Jonny?

  Like a juice fast diet or like, you know what I mean? Like we were quite scientifically grounded, we're quite numerical and are broadly the unsexy stuff. It is exactly the unsexy stuff.

• 38:46Chris Williamson?

  But thank God, because we we we're too intolerant as people to to handle the type of person that would come to you if you promoted juice fasts, because there's a type of attitude and shortcut kind of mindset. It's very hard to shake if you have someone that comes to you and wants that. And then to try and coach them just becomes impossible because it's just like square.

• 39:05Jonny?

  And that that exists in in business as well, but I think it's more, I think people think.

• 39:11Chris Williamson?

  That's how you market it as well.

• 39:12Jonny?

  Of course it does, yeah, but I think there are there are fewer people, there are, that's another story as well, there are fewer fewer people who think like, well, by tomorrow I'll have a big business online. Like, I think the sort of, most people.

• 39:27Chris Williamson?

  Big best are online.

• 39:29Jonny?

  Most people um think, you know, it's going to take a year or whatever. And so the result is a more serious type of client than someone who's like, well, I'm going on holiday in ten days.

• 39:42Chris Williamson?

  Get me leave, I'm not leaving.

• 39:46Jonny?

  But yeah, I I it it depends on the client, but because, probably because generally when a P T comes to us, they're like, guys.

• 39:53Chris Williamson?

  Serious.

• 39:54Jonny?

  Yeah, I I this is going to take two years, but that's fine. Like, we're on the same page. If someone comes to us and they're like, Youssef, you're a doctor, mate. I want abs by by next Monday. Can you can you sort that? There's nothing we can do, but give us the right fitness client, get you shredded.

• 40:09Chris Williamson?

  Fine. Okay, that's that's that's a good politician's answer about coaching coaches or coaching.

• 40:14Jonny?

  Also, like, my background is is business and finance. Yusuf's background is like

• 40:21Jonny?

  bums and breasts and cells, hormones, glands.

• 40:26Chris Williamson?

  Glands, glands.

• 40:27Jonny?

  Or Megli Negra.

• 40:29Chris Williamson?

  So, okay, let's say we've we've talked about kind of like what the environment is and what the industry is like. Let's say that someone's thinking, okay, I I'm offline P T, I'm ready to make the move online, or I'm someone who's got an interest in health and fitness and I I think that I should do that. What's the first step? Do they buy a website? No, they make a brand?

• 40:47Jonny?

  No. Absolutely. For God's sake, no.

• 40:50Chris Williamson?

  Can I remortgage my house?

• 40:51Speaker 02

  You're gonna induce anaphylaxis again.

• 40:55Chris Williamson?

  So we, we have this. What are the, what are the most common things that people think they should do? Buy a website?

• 40:59Jonny?

  Alright, so yes, that and build a program. Don't do that.

• 41:04Chris Williamson?

  So don't write a program?

• 41:04Jonny?

  Don't build a program, don't get a website, don't make a logo, don't, definitely don't like pay someone to set up a trainer eyes or my PT hub or anything like that. Because all that is doing is digging a trench in somewhere where you're not sure whether the trench is gonna actually be there long term. Like you're building a house and you haven't checked the foundations. And so we, we see this all the time and we like use it in marketing a lot that you see someone post on Facebook on their personal profile like, I'm proud to announce after six months of building it that I'm finally launching my eight week fat loss blaster program. Zero comments, zero likes, tumbleweed, six hours later and people wonder why. So the first thing to do is really,

• 41:47Jonny?

  you, you wanna build some sort of sales process to test this with. Like have an idea, have a concept, who do I wanna work with and why? Why would that person listen to me? What compelling stuff have I got to say to that person? What might the program look like? Then build a way to sell it to them and sell first and build in some people, bring in some people to help.

• 42:06Chris Williamson?

  Pre-enroll?

• 42:07Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 42:08Chris Williamson?

  Or say if you were to post online and say, um, considering going online, uh, is anyone looking for an online coach at the moment? Why don't you give me a DM and we'll have a chat? And then you could say, you could talk to them, see the sort of people who respond. So you're talking about dipping your toe in the water.

• 42:23Jonny?

  Yeah, you, you wanna build a program that is designed for your clients, not what you think your clients need. And that means really you need clients to help you build it.

• 42:33Chris Williamson?

  So should you start off just coaching a few people for free?

• 42:36Jonny?

  That's one option, yeah. The, the downside of that is a lot of people don't take it seriously. It's like someone we know actually has just tried to offer, I don't know if you've seen this. He's just tried to offer 12 weeks of coaching for free and no one's taken up on it. And the reason is, like, people don't, if I said to you, like, I'll make you a billionaire, but it's free, no problem. Suspicious. Yeah, you just think, well. Price is an indicator of quality. It is, yeah, reassuringly expensive.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  Like, whenever we've paid a lot for something, we, like, if you, if you pay off a course or audio programme or whatever, you'll, you'll go and do it because you're like, well, I've sunk this money.

• 43:10Jonny?

  But there's a, there's a book in the marketing world called Breakthrough Advertising that you can only get now for like eight hundred quid. And everybody, like, gets really excited about the book because it's so expensive. It'll just have the same stuff in. It's the basics of marketing, but like, when things are expensive, people value them more. So if something's free, people tend. So how, how do I find out who my audience is? So that I would serve you a year ago or you at the beginning of your journey. So I would have that as your client. Cause you are, like, you, you are that person post-transformation, right? Broadly, should men coach men and women coach women for effectiveness? Typically, that's the, that's the best way to do it, but it's, it's difficult.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Like, if you have some reasonable expertise in that, then fine. But when we, like, I, I get, I feel as weird when I see, like, a twenty-five-year-old man say that he's gonna do, like, middle-aged women post, postnatal, and you're just like.

• 44:07Jonny?

  What do you know? What do you know about that?

• 44:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, about the struggles of a middle-aged woman after having a baby. Like, it just, it, it seems seedy and it seems like.

• 44:16Jonny?

  It, it is possible, and some coaches are really good at coaching, you know, men, coaches, women. Yeah, exactly. And like, some men have really, I'm sure have really good postnatal programmes, but for the first, for your first online programme, it's, it's making it hard for yourself. Cause you have to imagine what it's like to be that person. So you wanna pick, what were the goals that you had? Oh, sorry.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  Oh, sorry, just the, the only exception to that is if, when you, if just naturally from your, your existing personal social media following, you get loads of questions and things from a specific demographic.

• 44:51Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 44:51Speaker 02

  And you can't figure out why. Then, fine.

• 44:54Jonny?

  Perhaps you've selected for men, women, young people.

• 44:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, and and it could be that, you know, James Smith is a very, is like a sexually desirable man. And so a lot of, like, a lot of women like him and they go for, they they they message him, they see him as an authority and that. So he's like, right, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna double down on this.

• 45:11Jonny?

  You were saying that because James has got the moustache, you're doing the moustache.

• 45:14Speaker 02

  It's it's exactly that.

• 45:15Jonny?

  You're hoping he messages you, aren't you?

• 45:17Speaker 02

  Hop hoping he messages me.

• 45:18Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 45:20Jonny?

  You can meet up with him, yeah. Um, so the the the a good example of this, a guy, a client last week launched his sales funnel for his his program that was men only and more women bought than men. Like, so, you know, that he advertised it as a male program, but he had more female signups than male signups. Which is like the market going, hi, this is this is the right thing to do. So you're saying to be like, do you think I should rebrand it? Or I was like, well, gut instinct, what would what would you what would you say? So, yeah, like, so there are exceptions to that, definitely.

• 45:59Jonny?

  But the first thing to do, build a sales funnel, like build a webinar, build a challenge, an email series, something like that, that positions you as an authority, gets you to show off a little bit about what you know and how you can help people and offer your program as a like a beta launch at the end of it. It's like, I'm doing this program, I want, and pick a reasonable number of people, like twenty or whatever's reasonable. Um, for half price and I just want some feedback. I want you to help me build it, I want ideally a testimonial. And then the program that you build is what they wanted, rather than like what Eric Helms spoke to you about carb cycling and period of management at a at a seminar. Cause that that's what everybody focuses on. But no one gives a shit.

• 46:40Jonny?

  Like, someone will make a an ebook about how branched chain amino acids work and and then wonder why their clients don't want it, when their clients are like middle aged women.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  So the the exact read, like the fact that everyone there was a P T and it wasn't made for P Ts. It was Eric Holmes speaking at an event, but.

• 46:57Jonny?

  Yeah, and that's who it attracts.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  And you're like, well, if you look around in the room, you think, well, everyone here is a P T. No one's what my client would be.

• 47:05Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  And so they're not going to care. Like, if if this room is full of people that are my ideal client, then okay, they're clearly interested in the mechanics of carb cycling. So I'm going to then use that.

• 47:16Jonny?

  Talk about carb cycling to get my clients.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  And the the stuff that Johnny's mentioned there, I think, applies for any result in any domain. It doesn't have to be fitness, like just any, anything that you have expertise in and you can get for other people that you can acknowledge that you can pack and deliver and apply with someone, keep them accountable to. That's.

• 47:35Jonny?

  The the, you know what I, the main issue I have with the Grant Cardone stuff and like that, not just Grant Cardone, but like a lot of internet marketing in general. He might be, imagine if he wants that big car. Um.

• 47:47Speaker 02

  Fuck off.

• 47:47Jonny?

  Is that I think some of the time.

• 47:52Jonny?

  You know, people buy these courses because they're told, oh, you're going to become an internet millionaire. But you still need to have, like, you you can put a turbo onto anything, but if it doesn't have like wheels, a chassis and an engine, it's never, it does not going to make it go faster.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  What's the turbo you're referring to?

• 48:06Jonny?

  The turbo is like, what these people are teaching is like a marketing mechanism, usually, like a sales and marketing process for a business online.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  But, uh, Mike, when it talks about that, he says that some woman bought this Grant Cardone's business Kickstarter program for three thousand dollars.

• 48:22Jonny?

  Mm hmm.

• 48:22Speaker 02

  Didn't have a business.

• 48:23Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 48:24Speaker 02

  It's like you don't have a product.

• 48:25Jonny?

  I'm gonna, they're gonna help me come up with one. I mean, that that shaky shaky ground to begin with, isn't it? Like, you need, you still need, it's still just demand and supply in the market. Like, just because you bought something doesn't make you instantly have a desirable thing. Whereas if someone's a P T or it's the same, as you said, for like trades or like if you're an architect or a lawyer. Or I was speaking to someone the other the other week who was a lawyer and now earns like seven times what she earned, just working for herself, getting clients online.

• 48:56Speaker 02

  Lawyer.

• 48:57Jonny?

  Yeah. So like, there's an example of. Had she bought Grand Cada or something like that, you know, like how to market yourself online. When you have a skill that is in demand, it works.

• 49:08Speaker 02

  So there's.

• 49:08Jonny?

  You can't fabricate that by buying one of these courses.

• 49:11Speaker 02

  There's a really good article, um, I don't, I thought you might have sent me it or some, someone did and it was, it was basically saying, it was like a, one of like article of the year or whatever. And it was just saying. Your entire worth is determined by what value you can provide to other people.

• 49:27Jonny?

  Was it George Mc Gill?

• 49:28Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah.

• 49:28Jonny?

  George Mc Gill, the guy that wrote this book is full of spiders.

• 49:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 49:31Jonny?

  Society is the dying man on the ground and you were the one that's holding the penknife. Yeah.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  Uh, cool. Okay. Yeah. So, so, so you're, thank you. Yeah. So your, your entire worth is just what you can offer to people. And. So, I mean, that's how economics works. It's like the demand and supply, but people think like, oh, dollar signs. I need to learn the marketing. Then you're like, what are you actually marketing? What's the thing that?

• 49:55Jonny?

  What are you selling?

• 49:55Speaker 02

  Because there's this sense of like, I think what these things do is they generate a sense of entitlement in people that like. Well, if I put myself in front of the camera and then people will, will just buy my product because I'm worthy of this. And it's like, well, no, like not unless you actually have something to.

• 50:12Jonny?

  Well, if you look at like all the legit businesses, like look at Amazon, like Jeff Bezos didn't have like a quick marketing funnel, did he? Like Elon Musk didn't start Tesla.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  So you're saying focus on the product.

• 50:24Jonny?

  I'm saying all those people focused on having a really solid product.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  They were focusing on the customer's experience rather, but, and this is the thing about like what Johnny said about. Oh, I'm launching my new program and it's going to be sick. It's going to be absolutely amazing. Man, it's made from like the latest intermittent fasting and like. It, it's like people don't care and you're not thinking of it from what, what do they want? How can, like, cause, cause. They'll be watching you on video and thinking, well, who's this guy? How can they help me? I'm not interested in them. I'm interested in.

• 50:55Jonny?

  My big belly and I wanna get rid of it.

• 50:57Chris Williamson?

  It's strange, isn't it, with with regards to when you you hear people, and I see this with myself as well. Like, thinking about, I I I'm so in the weeds with my own experience of life and my own life. My ability to have perspective on anything that I do is almost zero.

• 51:13Jonny?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:14Chris Williamson?

  Like, you you will talk to someone about a project once that you've thought about a thousand times. You've literally had a thousand versions of this thought, and then when it comes to talking to them about it, you garble your words. You're like.

• 51:27Jonny?

  Cause there's so much to say.

• 51:28Chris Williamson?

  Hang on a fucking second, yeah, and you're like, no, no, no. So how do how do people ensure that they're kind of still focusing on that? Is it focus customer first?

• 51:36Jonny?

  So that that's what people people mistake great product and focus customer first with like, right, I need to go into the like. A cave and make the best thing I can. Like, that might be the best thing for you, but it might not be the best thing for the person buying. And that's why we're so big on, like, there needs to be both. There needs to be a way to get these people to take you seriously and actually pay you money. Cause if they don't pay you money, it's not a business anyway. But after that, build what they need. Like, what is what is gonna get them the best result possible? Cause the testimonials that you get where someone like, we have people like. Videos of people saying we we've you we've changed their life. That doesn't come because we explain to them how protein synthesis works.

• 52:18Jonny?

  Or like, you know, the we gave them the latest intermittent fasting thing. We gave them the solution to their problem. And I think that's what.

• 52:25Chris Williamson?

  And they'll tell you.

• 52:26Jonny?

  Yeah, like, this is the problem I'm experiencing. Please help me solve it. And then you use the expertise about the protein synthesis. And the latest intermittent fasting to solve.

• 52:34Chris Williamson?

  Off the.

• 52:34Jonny?

  But they don't wanna know how it works. You know, like, they don't give a shit how it works.

• 52:39Chris Williamson?

  It's like a small subset of ones that do, but then they usually want to go and then become P Ts and, you know. Details, details. Don't bore me with the details. That's it, isn't it?

• 52:49Jonny?

  Layer cake.

• 52:50Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 52:51Jonny?

  Yeah, it is, to be honest, it is all just layer cake. You're bored, take shit, get out in the world, take more shit. Welcome to the low.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  Tell you a little shit. So one day you're up in a rare, refined atmosphere.

• 53:04Jonny?

  And you're an online coach?

• 53:05Speaker 02

  You're online.

• 53:06Chris Williamson?

  And you're at James Smith PT with a blue tech.

• 53:09Speaker 02

  Something else that just I've just remembered was, this was a link that Johnny sent me about forty two minutes into a Tom Martin seminar. So you know, you know Tom Martin, like for the listeners.

• 53:19Jonny?

  God.

• 53:20Speaker 02

  This is a guy who is like mental strong, like he, he deadlifted three forty at eighty two kilos. Went up to ninety threes, got stupid lifts. Everyone thought he was on drugs. Everyone was like, oh, he's clearly on drugs. Like, look at his lifts. One day he left the powerlifting federation that was drug tested and became huge over six months and started deadlifting. Like, like, like four hundred plus, squatting three hundred plus, like really big lifts. And just got, looks like an absolute like.

• 53:51Chris Williamson?

  Belgian blue ball.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  Turbo gold.

• 53:53Jonny?

  That's exactly what.

• 53:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:55Jonny?

  And. Full, is how he looks.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  Very full.

• 53:57Jonny?

  Turgid.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  And then it was like, oh, okay, so he wasn't.

• 53:59Chris Williamson?

  Now he's.

• 54:02Jonny?

  He's moved to an untested federation and got very strong.

• 54:05Speaker 02

  So he's a really impressive athlete, like absolutely mind blowing. And he's sat there, arm, arm in a sling, because he's torn his bicep deadlifting. Delivering a seminar on like basics of powerlifting. And this guy goes, uh, Tom, Tom, just, uh, just, just stop you there because I've got a question. Um, as a, as a intermediate powerlifter who's recovering from ACL reconstruction, if this was back in, on my left knee in two thousand and fourteen. Um, my question really relates to the specifics of and the mechanics of doing reverse band partial squats. Um, in, as part of my volume building block.

• 54:46Speaker 02

  And, and so what's the efficacy in implementing that within my program for, for improving my, my squat? He's like, have you thought of just doing full range squats with a barbell?

• 55:01Speaker 02

  Oh, okay, right, right, okay. Like.

• 55:05Jonny?

  It's the, it's, yeah, the ba- the basics is what, and that's what people don't want to hear.

• 55:10Chris Williamson?

  What's, what's the one about, uh, the guy, the guy who turned up to the internet marketing, uh, explanation seminar and didn't have an internet business? Uh, mate, I'm not being funny, right?

• 55:23Jonny?

  So, yeah, so we, we were at a thing in, we were at, I'll not say where, we were at a, an event somewhere in the UK, undisclosed location, and uh, someone came up to Yusef, and Yusef is not the person to ask this question of, because he doesn't like it. It was like, it was like, mate, mate, um, like, can I, can I ask you, can I ask you a couple of questions? It was asking us like loads of questions. I'm not being funny, I'm not being funny. Can I, can I ask you a couple of questions about that? You don't have to answer this, but how much do you charge for your online, like loads of like really cloak and dagger? And it got, Yusef got down to like the, the brass tacks.

• 56:03Chris Williamson?

  Man, I don't mean to be funny, but.

• 56:06Jonny?

  And the guy.

• 56:07Chris Williamson?

  How much do you charge?

• 56:10Chris Williamson?

  Was it Darren Cartel?

• 56:13Chris Williamson?

  Very similar.

• 56:14Jonny?

  But he, he didn't have a website or anything, and that's like, that at the time.

• 56:18Chris Williamson?

  And wasn't this a really advanced?

• 56:21Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 56:22Chris Williamson?

  Like, it was like top, uh, proper high end.

• 56:24Jonny?

  Talking about like packaging intellectual rights and like, it was that, like, it was that, it was, the assumption was you had a website.

• 56:32Chris Williamson?

  Well, it's, it was military precision Facebook spend stuff, wasn't it? Yeah. Super advanced target.

• 56:39Jonny?

  When you've been doing it like seven years and you sit in a thing like frantically taking notes that, you know, really edge of your seat, holding on for dear life, and there's a bloke in the back who doesn't have a website.

• 56:52Chris Williamson?

  It's like a community hall somewhere in like.

• 56:55Jonny?

  To do.

• 56:55Chris Williamson?

  West London.

• 56:56Jonny?

  Like gluten, gluten hams or something twice a week for.

• 56:59Chris Williamson?

  It'd be like a, it'd be like a school sports hall on a Saturday that.

• 57:03Jonny?

  But he's there because he wants, he wants the answers. And that, you know, the fa- my favorite thing about the, um, the James Smith event was, um, so the, the, the two things about that that were weird, one was like, it's very similar to the Tom Martin thing. There's a guy on stage who's done very well and is doing very well in the internet fitness world. And the questions were like. James, mate, I've got, uh, I've got this woman who I charge thirty pounds an hour for. Think I might charge him thirty five pounds an hour. Hey, wha- what do you think? And you wanna stand up and go like, right, everybody, sit the fuck down, right? This guy, thousands of clients online, and that is the best question that you can come up with.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  How he got to where he is by charging an extra fiver per hour.

• 57:53Speaker 02

  It's when people just start with a sprawling story.

• 57:55Jonny?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:57Speaker 02

  Sometimes it's not even a question at the end of it. You're like, you just put your hand up there to just like.

• 58:01Chris Williamson?

  Have your turn.

• 58:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:03Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 58:03Speaker 02

  Mate, this isn't a fucking meeting, great. It's a Q and A.

• 58:05Jonny?

  Speaking of having your turn, so I'd asked a couple of questions. And you could see it was getting towards the end of the day and I can, Yusuf always feels like I need to participate and he says something. So Ja- James is talking about, there's a guy, he's called The Fitness Chef. Does like, um, you've probably seen some of his stuff, comparison for graphics of like avocado on toast and Snickers bar. And James went, oh, this guy's got like a hundred and fifty thousand followers. And Yusuf went.

• 58:35Chris Williamson?

  Made the.

• 58:36Jonny?

  Two hundred and fifty thousand. And James went, really? Yeah. He's like, fuck no, I only checked this morning.

• 58:41Speaker 02

  That is a classic example of, of the crush band acute chain where you just invent something in your head.

• 58:47Jonny?

  James was like, I checked this morning, I was had a really good day.

• 58:49Chris Williamson?

  And that was the one thing that you had to contribute.

• 58:52Speaker 02

  After it was like, ah.

• 58:55Jonny?

  Well, I then checked while we're sat there.

• 58:57Chris Williamson?

  Hundred fifty.

• 58:59Chris Williamson?

  Fuck, what are you doing?

• 59:01Speaker 02

  So, so then I put my hand up and I was like, James, um, I charge thirty pounds.

• 59:08Chris Williamson?

  And everyone's like.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  I was just thinking that. I was think, I was gonna ask that as well.

• 59:13Chris Williamson?

  So it's the same, it's, I went to go and see recently Alan DeBotton in London and, uh, Douglas Murray.

• 59:19Speaker 02

  There are a Q and A for them as well.

• 59:20Chris Williamson?

  Yes, at the end, yeah. So imagine Alan DeBotton, this man, this man's YouTube channel has had five hundred million plays. Five hundred million, one of the most insightful channels on the internet. And like, he, even he, Alan is like the most compassionate, gentle, he's like the ultimate uncle. Do you know what I mean? And.

• 59:44Speaker 02

  But not the one in the barbecue that.

• 59:45Jonny?

  Not the touchy one.

• 59:47Chris Williamson?

  Um, even he caveated the beginning of his Q and A section by saying, please keep questions to no more than three sentences and please ensure that they are a question.

• 59:58Speaker 02

  That that's a man who has experienced a lot.

• 1:00:00Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:00Chris Williamson?

  And do you know what it is? Douglas Murray, Douglas Murray said almost, he said two sentences and make sure it's questioned. And there's still people that stand up and go, yes, Douglas, um, I, I, I, I wondered, I wondered first off, uh, thank you. Thank you for coming. I'm all, I'm all, I'm all for thank you. First off, uh, obviously we are in Westminster tonight. It's like, fuck mate, what is this? Is this the opening night at the proms or something?

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  We're on planet earth and uh, it's the current summer.

• 1:00:27Chris Williamson?

  Thanks for the framing, mate. I've only been here for.

• 1:00:28Jonny?

  This is your life.

• 1:00:29Chris Williamson?

  I've only been here for two hours, listening to him and Lionel Shriver talk about like the nuances of identity politics for you to remind me that I'm in Westminster.

• 1:00:39Chris Williamson?

  Oh, am I?

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  I think I throw something.

• 1:00:42Chris Williamson?

  It was just like.

• 1:00:43Jonny?

  You should, you should just have like a bag of marbles, shouldn't you? And then you're allowed to throw marbles every time.

• 1:00:48Chris Williamson?

  Have you ever seen this before? So he had this thing where there was people with numbers in different areas of the room. And it was like number one, two, three, four, five, six, all the way around. And he would just pick a number and then they, that person would go, it was like.

• 1:01:01Speaker 02

  It's very Darren Brown, isn't it?

• 1:01:02Chris Williamson?

  He delegated out the way, but it was like this, one from this section and one from this section and one from that section. I'm like, mate, really? This, this kind of vision of uh, representativeness that you're giving out here, doesn't matter. Just do everyone in that row.

• 1:01:18Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:18Chris Williamson?

  Like, just do.

• 1:01:19Jonny?

  They'll make it more complicated than it, than it needs to be.

• 1:01:21Chris Williamson?

  It needs to be. Um, okay, so.

• 1:01:22Jonny?

  Get Darren Brown on the podcast. That'll be great.

• 1:01:25Chris Williamson?

  It'd be good.

• 1:01:26Jonny?

  I think that would be the most excited I'd ever be.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  But he'll take your wallet by the end of the.

• 1:01:29Jonny?

  He will, he will, actually.

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yes, okay.

• 1:01:32Chris Williamson?

  Uh, okay. So we've given out some fucking cool info today. Um, let's do a recap. And also we need, you need to tell people where they can go to, to find out more from yourselves as well.

• 1:01:46Jonny?

  So, okay, so I would say.

• 1:01:49Jonny?

  If if if someone is either so like gym owner, P T nutritionist offline or we have, we help a few people who like, there's a few people actually who have been fitness clients for two years. And are in such good shape that they're like, I want to help people do the same thing, which is really cool. But so tho- those criteria, so you're off, you're outside the industry, but thinking about it, offline P T, gym owner, anything like that. I I would start an online presence regardless of whether or not you want it to be a full time thing. And I would do it sooner rather than later.

• 1:02:21Chris Williamson?

  What's that mean?

• 1:02:22Jonny?

  Like, I would, I would have something in place. I would have an online program. I would have an online offering because really the barrier to setting one up at the moment is pretty low.

• 1:02:30Chris Williamson?

  Frictionless.

• 1:02:31Jonny?

  Yeah. And if you, especially if you have like clients already. It bolsters the value of your offline service.

• 1:02:37Chris Williamson?

  Is a is a P D F enough? Is a weekly call enough?

• 1:02:41Jonny?

  I'd say probably not, but if we're going to get into that. I've got a, I've got a link that that can help people with that rather than me go through the details. Um, but yes, sooner rather than later, just because realistically. There's someone starting today, now, now, now, now, and you're just going to be a year down the line if you wait. And there's no reason to wait. Because everyone's always like, oh, in January or next year, magical land of when I have all the time and all the money.

• 1:03:08Chris Williamson?

  It's one of those things to do with us being in the weeds about our own experience again as well, isn't it? It's like you presume that everybody else is watching you. And that you're going to power one man, I've got to. Well, this fucking sick program. Yeah, because honestly, if my third cousin sees that I've released this thing and there's a spelling error on the front page.

• 1:03:28Jonny?

  Yeah. So do- doing, it's getting started today might mean in a year, it's doing all right. Rather than, you know, this time next year, just beginning. So start sooner rather than later. And don't get caught in the weeds with websites and stuff you don't need focus on. What I said earlier, and just if you are getting help. Be very careful. So I, the question we encourage people to ask is like, can I see? Your version of this business, please. Like, can I see if you're teaching me to build a fitness business? I want to see this type of thing that I'm that I'm building because it might be like, you might see that business and think, that's weird.

• 1:04:10Chris Williamson?

  That's shit.

• 1:04:11Jonny?

  And and probably the most common reason people give for like, I don't run my fitness business anymore is like, it didn't suit my lifestyle. So do you want to be taught by someone who built a business that didn't suit their lifestyle? Just those sorts of things. I don't, I'm not trying to rubbish everyone else because there are some, some really good coaches, but just ask for proof, just like you would ask to see someone's lift if they're a part of the coach or whatever, right? Um, and do you have anything else?

• 1:04:35Chris Williamson?

  No, that's, that's.

• 1:04:36Jonny?

  Make a mustache, get a mustache.

• 1:04:38Chris Williamson?

  Get a mustache.

• 1:04:38Jonny?

  Make a mustache.

• 1:04:39Chris Williamson?

  Make a mustache, stick it on.

• 1:04:40Jonny?

  Stick it on.

• 1:04:41Chris Williamson?

  Where, so people are thinking this sounds, these two sound like they know what they're talking about.

• 1:04:45Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 1:04:46Chris Williamson?

  Where should they go?

• 1:04:47Jonny?

  So propanefitness.com forward slash modern wisdom.

• 1:04:51Chris Williamson?

  Nice.

• 1:04:52Jonny?

  Did it for you specially.

• 1:04:53Chris Williamson?

  Thank you.

• 1:04:54Jonny?

  And that, all that is, is a, um, it's basically us as a case study. So it's propan fitness as a case study and I just take you through what we did. Because that's what people always ask. It's like, what did you guys do when you were starting? What were the steps you took? So we've broken it down into seven, like our seven key takeaways. And it's free.

• 1:05:13Chris Williamson?

  Awesome.

• 1:05:14Jonny?

  Isn't that the best thing?

• 1:05:15Chris Williamson?

  That's fucking, I didn't even know you made that. Thank you. Well, for the listeners who are interested in more or just want to get something for free, link will be in the show notes below all propanefitness.com forward slash modern wisdoms. Uh, obviously follow propan fitness online, all that good stuff. Gentlemen, it's been sick. Thank you.

• 1:05:31Jonny?

  Thank you.