Catch Up 101 - #054

Welcome to a brand new series, featuring the long awaited return of Jonny & Yusef from PropaneFitness.com These Catch Up episodes will have no agenda, no topics for us to focus on, it's just me, Jonny & Yusef talking about what we've been watching or read in the news or what's going on in our lives. This week we're talking Liam Neeson, Fyre Festival, Meditation Retreats, Jonny appearing on Pointless, Yusef being rear ended and much more. Extra Stuff: https://propanefitness.com/ Check out everything I recommend from books to products and help support the podcast at no extra cost to you by shopping through this link - https://www.amazon.co.uk/shop/modernwisdom - Episodes You Might Enjoy: This Is How To Master Your Life - David Goggins - #577: ⁠⁠⁠lnkfi.re/SN-Goggins⁠⁠⁠ How To Destroy Your Negative Beliefs - Dr Jordan Peterson - #712: ⁠⁠⁠lnkfi.re/SN-Peterson⁠⁠⁠ The Secret Tools To Hack Your Brain - Dr Andrew Huberman - #700: ⁠⁠⁠lnkfi.re/SN-Huberman⁠⁠ Get in touch. Join the discussion with me and other like minded listeners in the episode comments on the MW YouTube Channel or message me... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/ModernWisdomPodcast Email: https://www.chriswillx.com/contact Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chris Williamson?

  We went to a meditation retreat, didn't we? It was amazing, but it was really difficult. For anyone who is considering doing a meditation retreat, it's really fucking hard.

• 0:09Jonny?

  Why did you buy a MacBook rather than a PC?

• 0:11Speaker 02

  Anyone, use a PC for three minutes and it'll answer that question. So I've been rear-ended twice in the last month.

• 0:19Jonny?

  In a car.

• 0:19Speaker 02

  In a car.

• 0:20Jonny?

  We should.

• 0:20Chris Williamson?

  In a car.

• 0:21Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 0:21Speaker 02

  You know what it is? As soon as you feel that impact, the sense is, it's not like, ah, my neck. It's, it's just all of the admin flashes before your eyes.

• 0:30Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. The paperwork.

• 0:33Jonny?

  This is why you shouldn't be allowed on a plane unless you've got an iPhone. And everything would be much simpler because the people who've made bad decisions would be confined to the, where they live.

• 0:41Chris Williamson?

  You've finally got on to the life hack of getting your haircut at home, haven't you?

• 0:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have.

• 0:45Chris Williamson?

  Before the hairdresser went around to his, she texted me to say, hang on a second. I'm about to go around to this person's house that I've never met before. I probably should think about my own safety. Is he, is he a weirdo? And I'm like.

• 1:04Chris Williamson?

  Ladies and gentlemen, look who's joined me again. Jonny and Yusef from propanefitness.com. It's been a long while, welcome back.

• 1:11Speaker 02

  Welcome.

• 1:12Jonny?

  Thank you. Welcome to us.

• 1:15Chris Williamson?

  So today we're doing a catch up episode. No agenda, no topics in hand, other than just what's been going on in our lives recently. So what's been going on in your life recently, Jonathan? What have you been doing?

• 1:27Speaker 02

  I always get thrown into the TV.

• 1:28Chris Williamson?

  Hot potato. There you go.

• 1:30Jonny?

  Oh, see, I have been on TV.

• 1:32Speaker 02

  Today.

• 1:33Chris Williamson?

  Love Island. Love Island 2019.

• 1:36Jonny?

  Christ. Love Island.

• 1:38Speaker 02

  But you couldn't think of anything worse than going to Love Island. You're not allowed.

• 1:41Jonny?

  There are some worse things.

• 1:42Speaker 02

  Ads manager is.

• 1:44Chris Williamson?

  You wouldn't be able to do Facebook ads. So why were you on TV?

• 1:46Jonny?

  God, so I.

• 1:51Jonny?

  Was basically put on TV by someone who wanted to go on Pointless but didn't have a partner. So if you if you don't watch Pointless, it's a it's aired, I think it's six days a week in the UK. Have you ever seen Pointless?

• 2:04Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:05Jonny?

  You've probably seen the bit that I was in.

• 2:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:06Jonny?

  Right, yeah. So that was very much like me before I realised, like, on the train on the way down. I should probably watch an episode of this.

• 2:15Speaker 02

  Just on a hotspot and quickly get an episode.

• 2:17Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  So there's a man, he asked.

• 2:18Jonny?

  So in the in like the the warm up, so you arrive, I'm in the room, and the woman said, sometimes people get to this point and they haven't seen an episode of the show, and I'm like.

• 2:29Jonny?

  Like.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  So that is a common problem then, it's not like, because I don't know, you're the only person.

• 2:32Jonny?

  She was making that out to be, at least it's not that bad, you know, at least it's not that ridiculous.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  And you're just like.

• 2:38Jonny?

  Yeah, no, no. Because because when you're there, you're in their world and everyone's there taking it very seriously. And the fact that you think it's all pointless and stupid, pointless. Isn't funny. And it's not funny to you either, because you're about to go on national TV and potentially be made to look like an absolute prick. But it actually went all right. It actually went all right. Can you tell us about your jumper?

• 2:58Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, no, so.

• 2:59Jonny?

  Oh, the ju- oh.

• 3:00Speaker 02

  So so I called Johnny the day the day before he had to go down.

• 3:04Jonny?

  It was the day of.

• 3:05Speaker 02

  You said, I can't talk, I'm in Primark, I'm having a nightmare. I wasn't allowed to wear any of my jumpers and I have to get a plain, orange, green or blue jumper. I couldn't be green.

• 3:15Jonny?

  So it the blue.

• 3:17Speaker 02

  Viddy Gaiden's like, obviously it can't be green.

• 3:19Jonny?

  Specific blue.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 3:21Jonny?

  Which is why it was the blue that I was wearing.

• 3:22Speaker 02

  And you only have navy.

• 3:23Jonny?

  So you're not, the the biggest problem is you're not allowed anything with a logo.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:26Chris Williamson?

  And you've had an embroidery that's three centimetres tall.

• 3:30Jonny?

  Hmm.

• 3:30Chris Williamson?

  Like, visible only from up close, but was too much.

• 3:33Jonny?

  So that that's all my clothes.

• 3:35Speaker 02

  You had a name tag, didn't you?

• 3:36Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 3:36Speaker 02

  So can they not just stick that on top of the logo?

• 3:38Jonny?

  It depends on the the position.

• 3:40Chris Williamson?

  So the name tags also got a very.

• 3:42Jonny?

  Try and line the the name tags up, because I'm taller than.

• 3:45Speaker 02

  Has to be at the middle.

• 3:45Chris Williamson?

  What, so it was yours at your your belly button, yeah?

• 3:47Jonny?

  No, no. It was like. Mine was mid thigh.

• 3:51Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 3:52Jonny?

  It's just not how it appears. Um. But, yeah, it was it was fine. It was quite stressful.

• 3:58Speaker 02

  You came across very well.

• 4:00Jonny?

  Thanks.

• 4:00Chris Williamson?

  I'm excited. Anyone who has not seen Johnny's episode of Pointless is now available on BBC iPlayer.

• 4:04Speaker 02

  Only for the next twenty nine days.

• 4:06Jonny?

  Okay.

• 4:06Chris Williamson?

  Hurry the hell up. You need to go and watch it now. Do you know what? Episode number.

• 4:09Jonny?

  No.

• 4:10Speaker 02

  Twelve.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 4:12Chris Williamson?

  Is that a joke?

• 4:13Speaker 02

  No.

• 4:14Chris Williamson?

  I'll, if I can find it, I'll put a link in the show notes below, so go and watch. Yusuf, what's been going on in your life?

• 4:20Speaker 02

  What's been happening? I've just been deep in the work cave, unfortunately, there's not, you can see from my pasty complexion, I'm racially Arab and you wouldn't know.

• 4:29Chris Williamson?

  It's all been sucked out of you.

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, um, so I've got my finals coming up, so, uh, in three months' time, if I pass, then.

• 4:37Chris Williamson?

  Doctor.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  Doctor.

• 4:38Chris Williamson?

  You could be, you, you could be looking at someone's ailments. So it's, it's, it's semi-finals now?

• 4:44Speaker 02

  So these are the semi-finals now?

• 4:46Chris Williamson?

  Right, and then you get, you qualify into the finals.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Into the tournament and the premiership.

• 4:50Chris Williamson?

  There's a round robin, isn't there?

• 4:51Speaker 02

  To a lead. That, that's all the football words I know.

• 4:55Chris Williamson?

  Offside.

• 4:56Speaker 02

  Premier ship. Premier ships.

• 5:00Chris Williamson?

  Are you showing up? You're showing up with your double pigeon out.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  I've got a slightly tight left hip.

• 5:04Chris Williamson?

  That's what happens when I sit on this sofa.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. I've seen you on that podcast with the giant.

• 5:13Chris Williamson?

  There was, there was someone who commented on the Lefan video saying, why is that blonde guy so big?

• 5:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:19Chris Williamson?

  And you're like.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  Cause you were just like.

• 5:21Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. That was when you were at peak hundred and five kilos as well, wasn't it?

• 5:25Speaker 02

  So the, the interesting thing, so there's another episode of Pointless, right, that's yet to air. So I thought it was gonna be on tonight, it wasn't on tonight, so there's obviously a gap, because there was a gap in filming of like three months. And in that time, I think I gained about five kilos and grew my hair.

• 5:41Chris Williamson?

  So you look like a completely different.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  So, so, so fair enough. And they're like, oh, you've ruined the continuity. I bet they were about to run them day by day and they're like, fuck it, I'm like, that's too hard, like, we can't now. Cause they, they say like, try not to change your appearance and I'm for that.

• 5:53Chris Williamson?

  Sorry mate.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  I've just commenced on Project Top Notch. I've just moved up a weight class. So when, in the intro bit where they're like, oh, Johnny, hello, welcome, what do you do? And you were like, I'm an online fitness coach and they were like.

• 6:06Chris Williamson?

  Well, what's that?

• 6:08Speaker 02

  So you, you know, you work in a gym at home and then you, you tell people.

• 6:11Chris Williamson?

  No, no, that's all I did.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Pajamas.

• 6:14Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. One of the lads the other day had a Skype interview for a placement and one of the boys that he lives with took a photo from the side and he'd gone full suit from the waist up and boxes from the waist up.

• 6:28Speaker 02

  The Trevor McDonald.

• 6:32Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 6:33Jonny?

  What's been happening in Chris, inside of Chris?

• 6:37Chris Williamson?

  Inside of me.

• 6:37Jonny?

  Inside of the Chris conversation.

• 6:39Chris Williamson?

  Um, we went to a, we did a, what is there any water?

• 6:43Speaker 02

  There's a pub.

• 6:44Chris Williamson?

  I don't think it's a pub.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  Maybe it's one of my beard hairs.

• 6:46Jonny?

  It's unlikely.

• 6:48Chris Williamson?

  It's most likely, yeah.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  I, you, it's funny how you just assume short hair is a pub, or actually it's more likely to be.

• 6:55Jonny?

  Well, someone saying there's a pub is very year nine.

• 7:03Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 7:04Jonny?

  Yeah, I used to be jeans called pubes. I made that up.

• 7:07Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Another year nine thing, wearing the chain with your wallet on. Do you know what I mean?

• 7:14Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  School trousers.

• 7:16Jonny?

  Clip it on and then it comes back and then your wallet is in your pocket.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:19Chris Williamson?

  In case someone was gonna steal.

• 7:20Jonny?

  People used to wear South Park characters on their jeans, you remember them?

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Oh, it's like, it was a.

• 7:25Jonny?

  People used to have a little cane or a little. Kind of.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  Year seven, flat hair and then.

• 7:31Jonny?

  Yeah, shock waves, shock waves, well, wet look.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  Shock waves over.

• 7:34Chris Williamson?

  That, yeah. We went to a meditation retreat, didn't we?

• 7:37Speaker 02

  We did, we did it one day in Harnam monastery called.

• 7:42Jonny?

  Harnam?

• 7:43Speaker 02

  Harnam Aruta Nagiri.

• 7:45Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  In, I'll say, beautiful place.

• 7:48Chris Williamson?

  It was amazing, but it was really difficult for anyone who is considering doing a meditation retreat, it's really fucking hard.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, the physical part of it is hard, isn't it?

• 7:57Chris Williamson?

  Well, it's just staying awake, like, you know, being, being sedentary, but also staying awake, but having your eyes closed. Like, it's an odd blend of, it's an odd blend of, uh.

• 8:06Jonny?

  So where did you sit?

• 8:08Chris Williamson?

  On the floor.

• 8:08Jonny?

  Outside, inside?

• 8:10Chris Williamson?

  So we did fit pretty much fifty fifty of either walking or feel out, as in outside meditation versus uh feel in sitting. So I was sat in a beanbag or walking around a lake, which was pretty beautiful.

• 8:22Jonny?

  But is there like a room in the monastery that you go to?

• 8:24Chris Williamson?

  There's a number of rooms.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  So we went and sit in the Dharma Hall, where they've got sandalwood burning and a big, big Buddha statue.

• 8:31Jonny?

  Oh, nice.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  Just a rack full of different cushions and you can choose like the cushion based on your preference.

• 8:37Jonny?

  And were there other people there?

• 8:39Chris Williamson?

  Pretty much no one. Quite quiet. They should, they should speak to, they should speak to us at Voodoo Events, like we'd get that place. Fill it. Fucking rammed, yeah, buzzing.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  But they'd love us.

• 8:47Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, VIP cushions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Key jump cushions. Yeah, exactly. Buy one, get one free cushion. Yeah, that's all of the, all of the above. Um, what else has been happening? Lot of podcasting, lot of podcasting, podcasting with Rory Sutherland, which you enjoyed. Anyone who has not listened to the episode with Rory Sutherland, go and check it out now, it will be in the show. Listen for Chris getting absolutely pied when he's.

• 9:09Speaker 02

  Railroaders.

• 9:09Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  It is excellent. Good episode.

• 9:12Chris Williamson?

  So during the podcast with Rory, the British gas man came around to fix his boiler, because he'd had a problem. And Rory's a little bit like, kind of like Brian Blessed from Blackadder. And he's a big sort of gruff British man, and he speaks like that, and everything's a bit fucking shit, isn't it? And he, uh, the British gas guy came around and said, I've cut bits out, but I had to, or I endured the entirety of the exchange and it was just hilarious. This British gas guy comes back after he's set him away in Westall podcasting, and I left this bit in. Sharon, if he comes back into the room and he's like, oh mate, it's, uh, it's all done in there now. Oh, Chris, one second. Wha- what's that? Uh, it's, uh, oh, it's all, all fit. Ah, bloody already.

• 9:55Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, well, he had, uh, he had three leaks actually, coming, one at the top, one in the, one in the middle, one at the bottom. Oh, oh, I, I, I must give you, I must give you twenty pounds. And he goes, no, mate, mate, it's, it's absolutely fine. He's, no, no, no, no, I insist, I insist. Have a, have a good, uh, have a, wha- what day is it? Uh, it's Friday. Have a, have a, have a good weekend. And then he gets back on the podcast and he hasn't put his headphones in yet and I didn't realise and I said, Rory, is that a smart watch you're wearing?

• 10:24Chris Williamson?

  Right, so, Asia. And I'm like, oh, fuck.

• 10:30Chris Williamson?

  For anyone who's listening, it just sounds like it had the biggest cream pie ever.

• 10:34Jonny?

  So I was gonna ask you whether he tipped him, because I just heard that, no, no, no, no, I insist, I insist.

• 10:39Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I think he got, he got twenty quid out of his wallet and gave it to him.

• 10:42Jonny?

  He, the, the thing that I really liked about him is the way he swears.

• 10:49Chris Williamson?

  Very tactical.

• 10:49Jonny?

  Yeah, because you know when sometimes people use swearing as filler? The way he swears really makes it sound better.

• 10:57Chris Williamson?

  It's an accentuation, yeah.

• 10:59Jonny?

  Because he said fucking, fucking hell.

• 11:01Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 11:01Jonny?

  Brilliant.

• 11:02Chris Williamson?

  It's because it's very deliberate. I think some people swear when they're thinking of words and buying for time. Yeah.

• 11:08Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 11:08Chris Williamson?

  Whereas this was.

• 11:09Jonny?

  You do that, don't you, constantly?

• 11:11Chris Williamson?

  Well, sorry, all the time. But it's idiosyncratic as well for a lot of people, whereas his is very deliberate, very precise speech. Which I think is, that precise speech is one of the, if you're designing a good podcast guest, all of the best podcasts I've done. With people who are precise with their speech, there's nothing more or less than they need to say, and they say exactly what they need to.

• 11:29Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 11:30Chris Williamson?

  I just think his opinion, I'm, I feel such an affinity with him because of his opinion towards the shatufa, which is the bum spray. The high pressure bum spray that they use, because he was like, in what other world would you get a bit of poo on your face? And just, I'll just wipe that off with a bit of dry paper, it'll be fine, it's a disgrace, I mean, it's absolutely barbaric. The Arabs, they've got it, they've got it right, haven't they? And it goes.

• 11:53Jonny?

  I don't know how I feel about this.

• 11:56Chris Williamson?

  What about the bum spray?

• 11:57Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 11:57Chris Williamson?

  Wet toilet paper, people think it's just for fucking perverts, don't they? It's true, people, people with medical problems and, but, so he's, he says that if we put those pre-wetted toilet papers. Rather than on the top shelf of the supermarket where it looks like the, the pervert shelf.

• 12:14Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 12:15Chris Williamson?

  If you just put it somewhere that's really accessible.

• 12:17Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 12:17Chris Williamson?

  Then you can turn it into a mainstream thing.

• 12:19Jonny?

  Well, I just, he's, he's, I was saying this to you, so like, his job is just to sit and think, isn't it?

• 12:24Chris Williamson?

  At the top of a big mountain.

• 12:25Jonny?

  He's, he's at the top of a big organisation, he's just got a big chair in a room.

• 12:29Chris Williamson?

  Sick going.

• 12:29Jonny?

  Chesterfield. And thinks about like, where might the world be going?

• 12:34Chris Williamson?

  So if you go on Ogilvy's website and if you listen.

• 12:36Jonny?

  He's not on there, is he?

• 12:37Chris Williamson?

  No, no, he is. So I implore you to go on and have a look, and it says, Rory Sutherland, Vice Chairman of Ogilvy Advertising. And below that, I swear to God, one of the first couple of sentences is something akin to Rory created his own job title, which is purposefully vague. Like, mate.

• 12:57Jonny?

  Is there a chairman?

• 12:59Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, there will be, but it must be on the board, I'm gonna presume as well. Um, but then there's like Ogilvy UK, Ogilvy, blah, blah, blah.

• 13:06Jonny?

  David Ogilvy is dead. Yeah, so now he's set up this massive.

• 13:12Chris Williamson?

  All over the world, man, all over the world. But yeah, I mean, when he was, some of the stuff he said about like, you know, I do think that the Russians are probably pretty shit drivers on, uh, you know, on balance, but that's because of the, everyone, every car seems to come with a bloody, road traffic camera at the front of it, and you're like.

• 13:31Speaker 02

  So speaking of which, that's another, so I've been rear-ended twice in the last month.

• 13:36Jonny?

  In a car.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  In a car.

• 13:37Jonny?

  We should car.

• 13:38Chris Williamson?

  In a car.

• 13:39Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  Um, one was my fault, one wasn't. So the guy who was my fault paid for the one who wasn't, so I'm break even.

• 13:46Jonny?

  But you've had two great experiences in the, in the middle.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  Two incredible experiences, it's, you know what it is? As soon as you feel that impact, the sense, the sense is, it's not like, ah, my neck, it's, it's just all of the admin flashes. All of the like, oh my god, the paperwork, oh, like, it's so. It's such, it's way more painful than any whiplash could, could do, cause you're like.

• 14:11Jonny?

  There is certainly something afoot here. There's, I, I think.

• 14:16Speaker 02

  Things come in clusters like that.

• 14:17Jonny?

  Well, I, I'd love to know. So I have a theory that people with dash cams getting more accidents than people without dash cams.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  Ironically, my dash cam, I got a crap one and it didn't record when it actually needed to work. So got rear-ended the first time, tried to take my dash cam out, plug it into the computer, and it records like thirty second clips of journeys that I've done five years ago. And nothing, nothing about the accident that I had. And then because it was still at home, I was trying to get the footage from it.

• 14:46Chris Williamson?

  It wasn't hit when you got hit.

• 14:49Speaker 02

  So I'm just gonna get rid of it and buy a dual facing one, cause you think like most.

• 14:53Jonny?

  Well, hang on, did you just have one facing in one direction?

• 14:55Speaker 02

  Just a front facing.

• 14:56Jonny?

  Okay, yeah.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  To get a dual facing one that connects to your phone or wifi is almost impossible.

• 15:02Chris Williamson?

  Really?

• 15:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:03Chris Williamson?

  Gap in the market, someone who has access to small portable video cameras. Does it just record onto a hard drive and then reset?

• 15:10Speaker 02

  So it records on loop, yeah, and then it has, some of them have a sensor, so if you, if it has an impact, it will save the last.

• 15:16Chris Williamson?

  That's clever.

• 15:17Speaker 02

  Ten minutes.

• 15:17Chris Williamson?

  So I mean, a lot of the, like, stuff like Canary is, I think it's twenty eight days, that it records on cloud. And then after twenty eight days, it'll just. I don't know Canary.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Home security.

• 15:27Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, like same as Nest or whatever, whatever. Um, speaking of which, Darren got a Nest, I think I've told you this before.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 15:33Chris Williamson?

  He got a Nest, which is like a smart thermostat for your house. And because he's, him and his wife have got a young child and dogs and he has a chaotic working environment, like, there's no contin. Sorry.

• 15:48Chris Williamson?

  Is that, I mean, vibrating phone during a podcast is, is that, is that. What you're gonna do? Is it, like, turn it on silent? That's on silent? But it vibrates? Yeah. Is that what happens at night? Uh, yeah. That's disgusting. It's only good things, I've told you. That's disgusting. I don't mind, who doesn't like mind being woken up by a really good thing?

• 16:06Speaker 02

  That is a story that, I don't know whether we've mentioned this, where I came to pick Johnny up at seven AM for a competition. We were going to Leeds.

• 16:14Chris Williamson?

  I think we have spoken about it, but.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 16:16Chris Williamson?

  Go on, go on.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  Went to, went to his family home, knocked on his door, this was a few years ago, my mum answered the door. And she, I was like, have you seen Johnny? She was like, no, I've not, I've not seen him, I don't know where he is. And I just hear footsteps running down the stairs. Johnny's like, oh, like bleary eyed, like, what time is it? It's like, it's seven twenty five, it's like, oh god. And he was like, right, you know what's happened? My Apple Watch at four AM woke me up and just said, beep beep, you've been sat down too long, time to get up. So I, so I got up and like, and then my girlfriend was like, what are you doing, Johnny?

• 16:47Chris Williamson?

  He tried.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  It's four in the morning. And I was like, ah, so.

• 16:51Chris Williamson?

  Is it the normal last day?

• 16:54Speaker 02

  So he went back to sleep and then it didn't wake him up.

• 16:57Chris Williamson?

  When you actually needed it. This is when we try and optimize too hard. Like, so there was a good tweet that Jordan put out yesterday, that, um, uh,

• 17:08Chris Williamson?

  George put out yesterday, saying about asymmetric risks and one of the biggest.

• 17:12Jonny?

  Is that who it was?

• 17:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:13Jonny?

  Right.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  Well, Naval Ravikant via George.

• 17:16Jonny?

  Oh, got it.

• 17:17Chris Williamson?

  But it wasn't Naval, was it? It was Naval Ravikant Bot, which is owned by George. If you are on Twitter, check out Naval. Uh, it's Naval Bot, N A V A L B O T. And it's just like, uh, aphorisms that are unbelievable on, on loop. Um, one of the biggest, I think, one of the biggest asymmetrical risks is single alarm clock.

• 17:41Chris Williamson?

  It's dangerous, man.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, because one day when it fails.

• 17:44Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, that's the day you really, really need it. Yeah, so.

• 17:47Jonny?

  By, so it's asymmetric risks and asymmetric benefits.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  Opportunity.

• 17:52Chris Williamson?

  Option.

• 17:52Jonny?

  So in other words, the size of the game is smaller than the risk.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:56Jonny?

  The size of the risk is smaller than the cost.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  Position with a small stop loss and a very, very large take profit.

• 18:00Chris Williamson?

  So the, are the opportunities?

• 18:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:02Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 18:02Chris Williamson?

  So what's the, what's the other one?

• 18:04Speaker 02

  Um, there has a massive, small upside, massive downside. So texting while driving.

• 18:10Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, texting, texting while driving, texting another, uh, person while you're in a relationship is another one. Like, you're gonna get a very limited upside benefit to that.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  Or doing naughty texts with another person.

• 18:21Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  Was, was it you that said, like, if you were, if you had to show the text that you were writing while driving in court?

• 18:26Chris Williamson?

  Then.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah. And like, let's say you had a crash or you killed someone, you hit a pedestrian and then in court, they're like, well, what text were you writing? And you're like, lol, or like just some.

• 18:38Chris Williamson?

  It's so fucking vapid shit. Yeah, it, it, it is.

• 18:42Jonny?

  The trouble is, eh, when you're next in the car, watch how many people coming the other way are looking at the road. So few people.

• 18:49Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 18:50Jonny?

  And then you think, if they veer off, what am I gonna do?

• 18:53Speaker 02

  So with automated car, uh, what's called self-driving cars, apparently there's like a, it's like a hundred or a thousand fold less risk to die by a self-driving car than it is to die.

• 19:05Jonny?

  This is, this is what, this is.

• 19:06Speaker 02

  But people prefer to be, um, they're like, they're scared of self-driving cars because they would prefer to die by their own hand, even if it's a hundred or a thousand.

• 19:13Chris Williamson?

  Me, me and you both quote tweeted the same thing, that we would prefer to die by our own volition than live at the behest of a machine.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  Unbelievable.

• 19:20Chris Williamson?

  You're like.

• 19:20Jonny?

  So suppose it's when, it's when the machine goes wrong, it's the destroying a planet to make paperclip scenario, isn't it?

• 19:26Chris Williamson?

  It's, so the problem, the problem that people have with it is that for some reason they're prepared with a huge amount of uh, real risk that comes from humans, a hu- huge amount of human risk. But this tiny, and then they obsess about, well, what if it's a mother of three versus a, a pram with a baby? And you're like.

• 19:45Speaker 02

  When is that ever gonna happen?

• 19:46Chris Williamson?

  Fuck, well, even if, even if it does like.

• 19:48Jonny?

  How do you make that decision?

• 19:49Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, okay, so it's a utilitarian.

• 19:51Speaker 02

  Is it somehow better to leave that decision in the hands of a human who's just gonna be like.

• 19:55Chris Williamson?

  And kill them both.

• 19:56Jonny?

  Or crash in a shop and kill ten people.

• 19:58Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 19:59Jonny?

  I let, just let Tesla just make a, like, judge value and cost of life and just make the best decision.

• 20:04Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 20:05Jonny?

  That's all you can do.

• 20:06Chris Williamson?

  Outsource everything to Elon Musk.

• 20:07Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 20:08Chris Williamson?

  Um, I'll tell you what else I've been listening to recently, The End of the World with Josh Clark.

• 20:13Jonny?

  That sounds cheery.

• 20:14Chris Williamson?

  Link will be in the show notes below. It is the most, um, advanced and clever use of the podcast platform that I've listened to so far. So if you can imagine a ten-episode podcast series where he is talking about different existential threats, um, as asteroids, AI risks, physics experiments, uh, all sorts, everything, very, very comprehensive. And the entire show has been engineered by very, very clever, uh, sound engineers. And there's soundscapes going on in the background. So as he's talking about traveling through space, there's like whooshing space sounds and kind of low-level music and rumbling when he'll talk about asteroids.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  It's gonna be great on three times speed.

• 21:00Chris Williamson?

  Just white knuppling the steering wheel.

• 21:03Jonny?

  So here's, here's the thing.

• 21:04Chris Williamson?

  That is such a unique problem to have.

• 21:07Jonny?

  I don't listen to, so I do listen to audiobooks on two times speed. I listen to podcasts as they are. I think I see a podcast as.

• 21:15Chris Williamson?

  Leisure.

• 21:15Jonny?

  Leisure, but an audiobook is like, I'm reading this for work to gain information. But you just see all audio as wasting your time.

• 21:22Chris Williamson?

  I consume it as rapidly, but to be honest, three times pushes my limit a bit, but.

• 21:27Jonny?

  Because it's like.

• 21:28Chris Williamson?

  You can't even get, so the only way that you can get um three times speed is by going out to specific kinds of apps. So if, even if you.

• 21:35Jonny?

  Hacked, scone.

• 21:36Chris Williamson?

  If you're listening now on uh Apple Podcasts, I implore you to try this out. If you press the multiplication thing, it'll go one, one point five, two, naught point five.

• 21:47Jonny?

  So. Oh, really?

• 21:48Chris Williamson?

  I'm using a new podcast app called Castro, which is excellent. But it only has like one, one point two, one point five up to two. And then the next speed up is three and two is too slow for me and three is a little bit too fast, but.

• 22:10Chris Williamson?

  But.

• 22:11Jonny?

  Would you like an egg?

• 22:14Jonny?

  Or.

• 22:16Chris Williamson?

  And it metastasizes into bone cancer. How to explain that? So it was just in Iceland, you were listening to some really kind of droll guy talk about all the different ways that shin cancer can become everything else.

• 22:32Jonny?

  Yeah, so I, I was sat, my bedroom was the living room, so I was on the sofa. And Yusef was very unwell for the entire time. And I just could, I'd wake up, the two mornings, the first morning I woke up to Yusef standing, wearing a woolen hat and some shorts, cooking on a portable hob in the corner of a room.

• 22:52Chris Williamson?

  That thing blew me away, by the way.

• 22:54Jonny?

  The, the portable hob?

• 22:55Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, it's, it's like a, if you close a laptop and make it twice as thick.

• 22:59Jonny?

  That's a hob.

• 23:00Chris Williamson?

  And it's a, yeah, it's a hob.

• 23:02Jonny?

  How is it generating the heat?

• 23:04Chris Williamson?

  Unbelievable.

• 23:04Jonny?

  But, yeah, so.

• 23:05Chris Williamson?

  They just value space efficiency.

• 23:07Jonny?

  Slow, slow proof, so Yusef's like crouched. Over this hog with a pan turns around and says, would you like an egg? Single egg, boiled egg. That was what he was offering me for my breakfast, which I declined, I believe.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  I think we only had three left, so it was just gonna be.

• 23:21Jonny?

  Egg each. And then we bought some Lucky Charms, which were the cheapest cereal in Iceland.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  Nine thousand four hundred pounds.

• 23:29Jonny?

  As opposed to nine and a half.

• 23:30Chris Williamson?

  There's a discount, yeah.

• 23:32Jonny?

  Nine and a half grand to get into the supermarket, then nine and a half grand for.

• 23:35Chris Williamson?

  Shall we talk about Fyre Festival again? I've already talked about it with Alex Cortez, but it's just so good. Did you watch this?

• 23:40Speaker 02

  I've seen it now, yeah.

• 23:41Jonny?

  Have you?

• 23:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:42Jonny?

  Do you realise it was on? At normal speed?

• 23:44Speaker 02

  Normal speed, you were on you and Ben's recommendation.

• 23:47Jonny?

  Did you watch it with Amy?

• 23:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I. The only times I'm forced to watch things at normal speed are if there's other people.

• 23:53Jonny?

  You just gotta, when you, when you say something that doesn't fit into, this is what Yusuf does, you've gotta find the, the reason why.

• 24:00Chris Williamson?

  There's a justification.

• 24:00Jonny?

  Like, is he unwell?

• 24:02Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Is he unwell?

• 24:03Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 24:05Chris Williamson?

  So one of my favourites, to segue before we go on Fyre Festival, one of my favourite things is where you say, you can have a five pound discount on massages that you give people. So you're a trained masseuse. You offer people a five pound discount if they allow you to listen to whatever podcast or audiobook you're listening to at the time. But obviously if you flip that on its head, what you could look at is there is a five pound surcharge if you don't want to listen to what.

• 24:33Speaker 02

  That's a good point.

• 24:33Jonny?

  Those five pounds is so arbitrary as well, isn't it? It's like, it's, it's enough that you'd probably sit and think like.

• 24:41Chris Williamson?

  Do you want that?

• 24:41Jonny?

  Cause also someone will say yes, cause I remember Gibbo saying, he, he was having, he was like, Yusuf was giving me a massage. He was something about funnel marketing.

• 24:52Chris Williamson?

  Metastasizing and skin cancer.

• 24:54Jonny?

  Understand it, but it was okay, I suppose.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  Something about straddle options in the Russian equity market.

• 25:03Jonny?

  It's actually you should charge people for that.

• 25:06Speaker 02

  It's free.

• 25:07Jonny?

  Because I'm saying the stuff you have access to.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Excellent educational content for you.

• 25:10Jonny?

  But a lot of it's paid. Like it's either part of a nine grand a year degree or a paid programme or.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  That's a good point, actually. Like, it is value adding.

• 25:18Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  But it's just.

• 25:20Jonny?

  Very specific.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  They recognise the value.

• 25:21Chris Williamson?

  Not if you're on Ossend.

• 25:23Jonny?

  Not if you're on Ossend, yeah.

• 25:24Chris Williamson?

  Um.

• 25:25Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 25:26Chris Williamson?

  And then to to bookend that conversation, when uh you've finally got on to the life hack of getting your haircut at home, haven't you?

• 25:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have. Thank you.

• 25:35Chris Williamson?

  Um, but.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  Excellent recommendation.

• 25:37Chris Williamson?

  Before the hairdresser went round to his, she texted me to say, like, hang on a second. I'm about to go around to this person's house that I've never met before. I probably should think about my own safety. Is he, is he a weirdo? And I'm like.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  I think you said, like, no more than I am.

• 25:57Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  But that's really so much.

• 25:59Chris Williamson?

  If the canary in the coal mine is me, like, there's probably, but and then apparently, so I knew that this was gonna be, I could foresee the Scobie problem occurring.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  Like, he's not a touchy, kind of.

• 26:11Chris Williamson?

  No, but.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  Tie you up weirdo. He's just.

• 26:13Chris Williamson?

  It's what you listen to.

• 26:15Jonny?

  You make you feel uncomfortable. Yeah.

• 26:16Chris Williamson?

  So what I had in my head, and I knew it was gonna happen, and sure enough, it did, was that Yusuf was gonna be sat down. And he would be forced to make small talk with someone in his house. But he would know that at that point, all that he needed to do would be, like, press the play button. But that there's too many, you know, like that as you on ramp, like introduction Yusuf one on one. Like, you can't have Yusuf one on one as.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Well, that's it. God, you know.

• 26:44Chris Williamson?

  And I messaged him the next day and I was like, did he um, did he make, did he play anything? And then she was like, no, no. I was like, fucking hell.

• 26:51Speaker 02

  I did. So I gave her a 10 minute grace period of small talk. And then I was like, right. I think we've reached the threshold of like, I've established that I am a, that I can pretend to be a normal enough human for 10 minutes. Hey, do you, I'm just listening to the middle of the podcast. Can I? And I was like, you know what? I'll be nice. Let's put the speed to a normal. I think I put it on like 1.2 and hope she wouldn't notice.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  But it was it was Stan Grof talking about like the the psychoanalytic map of human consciousness.

• 27:20Chris Williamson?

  I'm sure that she loved that.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:23Chris Williamson?

  Like she spends all day hearing to people, he- hearing people talk about Reveal magazine.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  Fair, well, to be fair, it's quite a, yeah, it was like the cartography of archetypes of um.

• 27:32Chris Williamson?

  Jesus Christ.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  Jungian architecture, yeah.

• 27:35Chris Williamson?

  So Fyre Festival, tell me what you think, because I'm absolutely fucking amazed to find out what you you thought about it.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  So for anyone that doesn't know, I suppose, Fire was a really impressively, um, it was a festival.

• 27:48Chris Williamson?

  It was an app.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  Oh, okay, so it started started off as an app and then they decided to launch a festival off the back of it. Very good at hype, they hired a lot of uh supermodels and high, high definition, like high production value stuff to go and film the promo for a festival out in the Bahamas, buying one of uh Pablo Escobar's old islands. And they were gonna host it there.

• 28:13Chris Williamson?

  So they said.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  And so they they made it look like an amazing experience, got a lot of high profile people, a bit weird, like Blink one eight two and Ja Rule, like all like captains of nineteen ninety six. Um, and and so they then.

• 28:28Chris Williamson?

  Do you know what's amazing? That you would have looked at that lineup and gone, I've heard of them. Sounds alright, that sounds okay.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Think I'll book my ticket, oh, it's ten thousand pounds.

• 28:37Chris Williamson?

  What do you want? I've heard of those people.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  Um, so the the the, obviously it all fell down when they actually went to implement it and realised that the island had no infrastructure. The organisation was a complete mess and just seeing the whole thing progressively fall apart. The way that the documentary is made is so impressively stressful as well to define this where like you sat there and you're like, oh.

• 29:01Chris Williamson?

  Well, my my empathy a- as a business person just had me like I was white knuckling.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  I was thinking it's right up your street because it's like.

• 29:09Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, well, I mean, for any of the club promoters that are listening, it is just, it's all of our worst nightmares rolled into one.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  At what point could you tell that it was gonna go wrong?

• 29:18Chris Williamson?

  Game over.

• 29:19Speaker 02

  I realised like the premise of the show.

• 29:21Chris Williamson?

  Pretty pr- pretty soon, I think. Think like as soon as they talk, cause it's the stuff that you don't think about. The the infrastructure of things like bio waste disposal. Like, the problem wasn't selling the events.

• 29:32Jonny?

  Getting rid of poo. Where do you put the poo?

• 29:35Chris Williamson?

  Hundred hundred thousand dollars worth of Evian water. That the Ops Director had to go and suck off the customs officer. And I turned up there, fully prepared to suck his dick. And you're like.

• 29:49Jonny?

  He got loads of positive.

• 29:51Chris Williamson?

  He's a legend.

• 29:51Jonny?

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:52Chris Williamson?

  Do you know what the other thing is?

• 29:53Speaker 02

  Either way, couldn't you?

• 29:54Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, that's true. Um, but so, yeah, I mean.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  People be like, that's a bit weird.

• 30:01Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 30:03Chris Williamson?

  Um, I thought it was, it was really, really, I've watched it twice now, that's how much I enjoy it.

• 30:07Jonny?

  I felt very sorry for him. I might watch it again.

• 30:09Chris Williamson?

  Billy McFarland?

• 30:10Jonny?

  No, no, I felt very sorry for the the dick sucking man.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  It it's, that's really arrogant of him, cause basically the customs officer held, it was a hundred thousand litres.

• 30:17Chris Williamson?

  A hundred thousand dollars worth. I think it was like.

• 30:19Speaker 02

  Hundred and forty thousand.

• 30:20Chris Williamson?

  Three articulated lorries worth of water.

• 30:23Speaker 02

  Hundred and forty thousand dollar custom charge. And the guy said that he was gonna go over because the customs officer was gay and try and seduce him.

• 30:31Chris Williamson?

  No, no, no, the, everyone told him that this is what he had to do.

• 30:34Speaker 02

  This is what he had to do.

• 30:34Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, so he was like commandeered as like, you're the highest profile gay man that we've got, like you'll put a dick in your mouth.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  It's so arrogant to think like.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  I like, for me to give someone a blowjob, it's worth a hundred and forty thousand dollars, like.

• 30:49Jonny?

  I suppose it's just all you've got at that point, isn't it? Like, it's either that or.

• 30:54Chris Williamson?

  What would you have done?

• 30:55Speaker 02

  If it was the other way around, who would pay that much? I don't think anyone's ever paid a hundred and forty thousand dollars in the world.

• 30:59Chris Williamson?

  Be a good blowjob.

• 31:00Jonny?

  They definitely will have done.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  You're absolutely. A hundred and forty grand?

• 31:03Jonny?

  Why not?

• 31:04Speaker 02

  Cause you just find someone that would willing to take a hundred and thirty nine.

• 31:08Jonny?

  I don't think the person in the, in the moment of the transaction.

• 31:13Chris Williamson?

  How's he paid it?

• 31:15Speaker 02

  Oh, no, two point nine percent charge.

• 31:19Chris Williamson?

  But if you absorb that, if you absorb that as the, as the vendor, you'd be like, for a hundred and forty grand blowjob.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  Are you a registered business? You could claim VAT back on the, uh, transaction.

• 31:28Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 31:29Jonny?

  I know, I think you could. What's the, what's the, what's the input VAT? There is none. It's a nightmare.

• 31:35Chris Williamson?

  It is.

• 31:35Jonny?

  It's an absolute nightmare.

• 31:36Chris Williamson?

  It's fucking perilous, isn't it?

• 31:38Jonny?

  A hundred and forty grand blowjob.

• 31:40Chris Williamson?

  Um, but yeah, I mean, one of the, one of the main things, I said this to Alex on the, on the podcast was that. The big difference, and this shows how seduced we are by success. The only reason that everyone slates that the guy that ran it and the festival itself is because it failed. And if the stars have aligned sufficiently correctly and a bunch of very lucky things, the water had got sorted and the tents had got sorted. And it wasn't that weekend where all of the yachts were there and the islands. Yeah, and it hadn't rained and this and that, a bunch of things, basically his preparation and skill level and virtue and integrity hadn't moved at all on the meter. But all of the luck was turned up to eleven and it all worked fine.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  So if it was still fraudulently gaining.

• 32:22Chris Williamson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  Medical capital and all that stuff, but things.

• 32:24Chris Williamson?

  Had been successful, we'd be hailing him as the fucking.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:28Chris Williamson?

  And it's purely because we are so seduced by success. We want to be attached to success so much that it is by any means possible.

• 32:39Jonny?

  So I think it's, I think he's a pretty smart bloke.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  So six years in jail now, is it?

• 32:45Jonny?

  Yeah, yeah. Not that smart. But obviously, yes, that part's not smart, but like, I think the.

• 32:53Jonny?

  Like, I, I, there are not very many people who could get something to that point.

• 32:57Speaker 02

  Did you trust him? Did you think he was a charismatic guy?

• 33:00Jonny?

  No, I didn't. No, you don't trust him. I don't think.

• 33:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:02Jonny?

  He didn't come across at all as trustworthy.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  He seemed, yeah, he's got something weird about, even as like, he's got a strange gait when he walks.

• 33:08Jonny?

  It's smarmy.

• 33:09Speaker 02

  And it's, yeah.

• 33:10Chris Williamson?

  He's obviously got some sociopathic kind of like detachment tendencies.

• 33:14Speaker 02

  Cause his facial expressions looked as if they were engineered. Like, do you know what I mean? As if he'd like, thought, how can I like?

• 33:20Chris Williamson?

  He was meta, he was metacognizant for the entire time that he was, do you know what I mean? Like, he was thinking like, what would Billy McFarlane say in this, in this moment?

• 33:28Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 33:28Chris Williamson?

  And apparently there's a Hulu version, which I'm yet to watch. There's a same thing, but different documentary. And the Hulu version focuses a lot more on him.

• 33:37Jonny?

  Right.

• 33:37Chris Williamson?

  Um, which I'm looking forward to watching. Apparently in that, there's a bit, some footage from when he's in court. Is this fucking crazy American system where you can just like, take a camera in a court and just watch what's going on?

• 33:51Chris Williamson?

  And yeah, apparently there's this bit where they say, basically, did you say this? He says no, and they say his video of you saying that you did say it. And you can see apparently the cut, like he's.

• 34:03Chris Williamson?

  There's like a cognitive dissonance of just, yeah, where he's like, hang on a second, like I did, but I didn't, but I did, but I. You're like, hang on, it's obvious that he's just got, he's a compulsive liar.

• 34:14Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 34:15Chris Williamson?

  Who is unable to reconcile a number of different things that.

• 34:18Jonny?

  He's, if you, if you look at what he, I, I know he didn't deliver on the, on the product, but the, the.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  The breadth was very good.

• 34:25Jonny?

  Someone's made a fucking documentary about him.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:27Jonny?

  About, and so you think like, everyone's very quick to criticize and I completely understand that, but the, the fact is, he made a, he made a big wave. Out of an idea.

• 34:37Chris Williamson?

  You need to just put him in the marketing department and have him just very confined.

• 34:41Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 34:42Chris Williamson?

  Do you know what I mean? Like, don't let him near the ops. Like, don't let him fucking order the coffee, but.

• 34:46Jonny?

  Even stuff like getting everyone to post an orange tile.

• 34:48Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 34:48Jonny?

  I thought that was so clever.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  It's a very good idea to just keep him like cordoned off.

• 34:52Jonny?

  Yeah, give him a room and a whiteboard.

• 34:54Chris Williamson?

  Nick, Nick.

• 34:54Jonny?

  He can stay in there, mate.

• 34:55Speaker 02

  And a camera, he can just do what he wants.

• 34:57Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  So do you think he was delusional or deceptive?

• 35:01Chris Williamson?

  Combination, cause the, I don't think that you can have that degree. I, I don't think there's any amount of deception which would allow you to continue something when it's obvious it's not going to work.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  Well, so when things were going wrong and he was like, guys, we, we can't think about that. We've got to be positive.

• 35:14Chris Williamson?

  A solutions based business, not a problems based business.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  It's not just like blind faith in his own ability and thinking, no, no, we've got to be positive about this. Like, just, just Tony Robbins this up as hard as we can. Or is it like, he knows that it's going wrong, but like, just doesn't want, he's holding on to his position.

• 35:29Jonny?

  I think it's probably a problem switched. So I imagine he didn't start off thinking, let's make this big scam.

• 35:35Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 35:36Jonny?

  I imagine he started off thinking this is going to work and look, you know, when that guy like prices it all up and says, mate, this is like thirty million quid.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  Over budget, yeah.

• 35:43Jonny?

  And, and you've got six weeks to do it in. It's normally done in six months.

• 35:47Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 35:47Jonny?

  At that point, it's like, really?

• 35:49Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 35:49Jonny?

  Start doing it. At that point, it's like, fucking hell, like I either shit, I'll get off the pot here. Like I, I better just go balls in with this.

• 35:56Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 35:56Jonny?

  And just hope it works.

• 35:57Chris Williamson?

  The thing, the thing that was most impressive for me was where they were saying, so we'd run out of money. And then Billy would jump on a jet and go back to New York. And then he'd come back with another three million dollars in his pocket. And he'd be like, Billy, what the fu- he's, it's him. He's sucking, he's sucking like, whatever, thirty, thirty cocks. That's what he's saying.

• 36:18Speaker 02

  Did he know what he was doing?

• 36:19Chris Williamson?

  Thirty, thirty times one forty minus handling fee minus the.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  I see. So, right.

• 36:29Jonny?

  I don't think that's really what he was doing.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  No, but um.

• 36:32Jonny?

  But he was just lying about his finances, wasn't he, to get the, get the funding.

• 36:35Chris Williamson?

  Do you see that he said he held, he held a number of Facebook options and he had like ten grand.

• 36:41Jonny?

  Oh, yeah, I remember that.

• 36:42Chris Williamson?

  Five grand.

• 36:43Jonny?

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:44Speaker 02

  Cause his previous business was like, he sold it for a really small.

• 36:47Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  Small amount, but.

• 36:49Jonny?

  It almost, it felt to me like a, someone, someone with a gambling problem.

• 36:53Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 36:53Jonny?

  Like, he, he loves the thrill of it and doesn't want the idea to die.

• 36:57Chris Williamson?

  Some cost, some cost.

• 36:58Jonny?

  So it's like, oh, I'll just, I'll just tell that lie and I'll just lie as well. It'll all work out in the end somehow. Like, the one turn of the wheel, I'll eventually play my favorite.

• 37:07Chris Williamson?

  Needs to read Sam Harris, that's what he needs to do.

• 37:09Speaker 02

  What's that called, where you, the, the Chinese um thing where they, they make you take incremental commitments? That are slightly on, off your moral radar, but because they're so small, you keep taking larger and larger ones until you're just deep down the hole and you.

• 37:23Jonny?

  Sounds like Darren Brown, Darren Brown.

• 37:24Chris Williamson?

  It is, it's a day show, it's not Darren Brown.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  I think Darren Brown probably leverages that process very much.

• 37:30Chris Williamson?

  It's the, it's the reverse of compounding interest, isn't it? It's like a number of small compounding bad decisions and before you know it, you're like strung up by your nipples in Russia somewhere.

• 37:41Speaker 02

  Which just seems fine because it was only one extra decision.

• 37:44Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 37:44Speaker 02

  One.

• 37:45Chris Williamson?

  Each time.

• 37:46Jonny?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 37:47Chris Williamson?

  Um, have you seen the, the Ted Bundy tapes yet, Johnny?

• 37:49Jonny?

  No.

• 37:50Chris Williamson?

  Have you seen it?

• 37:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:50Jonny?

  Oh, my god, man.

• 37:52Chris Williamson?

  You should have seen something that you've.

• 37:54Jonny?

  So I, I nearly, I started watching it, but I was like, no.

• 37:56Chris Williamson?

  It's pretty fucking good.

• 37:57Jonny?

  Is it good?

• 37:58Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I thought it was pretty good.

• 38:00Jonny?

  Great.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:00Jonny?

  It's exciting.

• 38:01Speaker 02

  He's just, he's just a very charismatic, good looking guy that.

• 38:05Jonny?

  Happens to be a psychopathic killer.

• 38:07Chris Williamson?

  Systemically naughty.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  Although there, there is still a divide between, I think, the person that he thinks he is and wants to try and be, very much like the Billy thing, actually, it's quite, quite scary.

• 38:15Jonny?

  There's a lot of, that's why, that's why my mind's.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  There's another one that James Bailey recommended me to watch.

• 38:20Jonny?

  Yep.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  Which I've seen called Abducted in Plain Sight.

• 38:24Jonny?

  So I've watched that, that's fucking weird.

• 38:25Chris Williamson?

  Oh, Christ.

• 38:27Jonny?

  You should watch that.

• 38:29Chris Williamson?

  Is Maddy McCann on it?

• 38:30Jonny?

  No, no, no, no.

• 38:31Chris Williamson?

  Oh, okay.

• 38:31Jonny?

  Oh, my god, like, why?

• 38:34Chris Williamson?

  Give us a synopsis, so that.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  That's the, out of the three shows that you've mentioned, that's easily the.

• 38:38Jonny?

  And it gets the best. I was, I, I stood up to get a drink, right? I'm walking, walking to the fridge and someone says something and I turned around and went.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:48Jonny?

  I was like, I can't believe.

• 38:49Speaker 02

  Shall we spoil it for, for the audience?

• 38:51Chris Williamson?

  No, don't spoil it, don't spoil it.

• 38:53Jonny?

  Well, I mean, there's, there's a scene where. A guy, there's two men in a car, yeah. Who, do you know the bit I'm about to say?

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I I feel like the the preamble is is the most like, like what led to that point is. Makes it seem even more ridiculous.

• 39:11Jonny?

  Okay, I'm not I'm not saying.

• 39:12Speaker 02

  Uh, okay, well, so.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  Basically, it's a family, three daughters. They made friends with another family. The husband of the other family developed a, they developed a friendship and he developed a particular proclivity for one of the daughters, Jan. He would, the parents were aware of it and they were like, oh, yeah, it kind of angered us, but we thought, you know, whatever, carried on. And then he would end up staying over at their house multiple times, staying in Jan's bed. One day, the father was away, wasn't able to take Jan to horse riding class. He said, oh, I'll do it. Drugged her, took her away, abducted her for several days. The parents didn't call the police or the FBI until five days later. Cause they were like, oh, maybe they're just, you know, horse riding or something.

• 39:56Jonny?

  That's the tip of the iceberg.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  This is the tip of the iceberg.

• 39:58Jonny?

  Tip of the iceberg.

• 39:59Speaker 02

  And and so then, um, and and prior to that as well, what turned out was that the man had. Made sexual advances towards the wife of the other family. And so they had a little secret, so she felt hesitant to actually go to the authorities about. And then later, the husband and this other guy had gone on a camping trip and the husband was like. And we were sat in the van and he he looked over at me and he had an erection. He was like, man, I just need some relief. Would he help me out? Would he help brother out? And I was like, ah, so I I performed an act of masturbation on, I think.

• 40:37Jonny?

  You're just like.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  And you're like, what the fuck is going? So so he's managed to like have sex with both of the parents from the other thing and abduct the child. And then tried to marry it. Eventually, he manages to return the child back to the house.

• 40:49Jonny?

  With a receipt.

• 40:50Speaker 02

  Which was proof of purchase. They they don't speak to him for a few weeks. And then he becomes mates with them again, stays back at a house over and abducts her a second time.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  And and when when when he's abducted her a second time, the parents then know that this happened and they know that he's had previous convictions of being a child abductor. But he said to them, oh, don't worry, I'm recovered now, but part of my therapy is to stay in the bed with little girls. And the parents are like, oh, sounds legit, okay, um.

• 41:16Jonny?

  And they they let him stay in the bed. There's a bit where it's like he was sleeping in her room five nights of every seven. In her bed, in her parents' house.

• 41:26Jonny?

  But it's a very similar thing where.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  Are the parents completely deranged?

• 41:30Chris Williamson?

  Well, no.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Again, this is one of these questions where are they delusional? Are they complicit?

• 41:34Jonny?

  Again, it starts off with, oh, I just wanted to take a horse riding once. And then very quickly becomes this mess of just.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  It makes you so angry with your parents.

• 41:45Jonny?

  Yeah, yeah. It's just.

• 41:48Chris Williamson?

  Like completely neglect.

• 41:49Jonny?

  It's great that you're watching these things.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  I've just been steamrolled into watching.

• 41:52Jonny?

  But it's it's stuff that I I I feel like regular TV is brain dead, pointless. But stuff like this is really interesting.

• 42:02Chris Williamson?

  It's surely it must be it must be as palatable as you can make television.

• 42:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is. It's it's just.

• 42:08Jonny?

  It's quite a complex plot. There's quite a lot of information.

• 42:11Speaker 02

  Big mixture of emotions. Yeah.

• 42:12Chris Williamson?

  Cause the thing is as well, like no one ever has this conversation about Coronation Street. Like, eh, did you see?

• 42:20Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 42:20Chris Williamson?

  The the complexities of the metacognition of Roy Crotta. And you're like, no, no.

• 42:27Jonny?

  Cause it's all just.

• 42:28Chris Williamson?

  Can can.

• 42:28Jonny?

  So so funny enough, there would be no Coronation Street plot that even came close to the the ridiculousness.

• 42:35Chris Williamson?

  And and that's real.

• 42:36Jonny?

  Yeah, and this actually happened.

• 42:38Chris Williamson?

  That is true.

• 42:39Speaker 02

  You couldn't make this stuff up. You couldn't.

• 42:41Jonny?

  Uh, what else? Making murderer.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  Liam Neeson, uh.

• 42:43Chris Williamson?

  Liam Neeson.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  I saw one thing of it and then I was like.

• 42:46Jonny?

  I think if you if you stuck with that.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  Persevered.

• 42:49Jonny?

  It's a very similar thing where it gets to the end and you're like, I can't believe this is happening.

• 42:53Chris Williamson?

  Have you watched the second season?

• 42:54Jonny?

  No.

• 42:55Chris Williamson?

  Second season's not as good, but just like the first season spanned twenty years, right? Pretty much of timeline.

• 43:01Jonny?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:01Chris Williamson?

  The second one spans since then until now. So it's like they they're gonna have to stretch this. But they've got, there's a the lady lawyer who is representing him.

• 43:11Jonny?

  Right.

• 43:12Chris Williamson?

  Is.

• 43:12Jonny?

  Oh, yeah, she do. She does.

• 43:13Chris Williamson?

  Motherfucker.

• 43:14Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 43:15Chris Williamson?

  An absolute like proper.

• 43:17Jonny?

  Just wheel wheeling the big minigun and just.

• 43:19Chris Williamson?

  Oh, good, yeah.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  And when the noise is so uniform, it's not like a single one.

• 43:24Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:25Jonny?

  The um, there's another one called The Staircase. Seen that?

• 43:29Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 43:29Jonny?

  It's about a guy who gets, a guy's in the house with his wife and his wife dies by falling down the stairs. And the police arrive, but there's like blood all down the stairs, like smeared everywhere. And he's like, she just fell down the stairs.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  Is it in the UK?

• 43:45Jonny?

  No, it's in the US. And he's a famous author.

• 43:47Chris Williamson?

  Fiction.

• 43:49Jonny?

  No, it's it's proper like police tapes and stuff and people are like, and we came to the house and she's in a right mess like she's blood everywhere like all this like all of the wall and everything and he's like, yeah, she just must have fallen down. And it's that's great as well.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  There'll be this camera footage that vindicates her where she just absolutely stacks.

• 44:08Chris Williamson?

  He's like, see you at all. She's a bloody klutz.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  Reminds me of this video that went went viral a few years ago of this guy who breaks up with his wife. Do you know about this? Where he he creates like a trail, like a Valentine's.

• 44:19Chris Williamson?

  Oh shit, yes. Have you seen it?

• 44:22Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 44:22Chris Williamson?

  It's the it's really savage. I'll try and find it and link it in the show notes below. Yeah, it's like a a incremental set of videos. This guy finds out his wife's been cheating. Then leads her on this like Valentine's Day uh scavenger hunt thing through the house to the bed and the bed's covered in roses. And it's uh at the end of it.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  So there's like a card and it's shaped like a heart and she has to go around and find the different things and there's a clue written on each thing. She eats a chocolate and she gets up to the bed and it's like um. We will uh we this is the final stage of of our little trail. Um we will then spend the next the next time at Northern Lights in the hail. Um. I finally have one more question for you when I get one on down on one knee and ask you, who the fuck is Thomas Rue?

• 45:15Speaker 02

  And she looks up and and he's just like, see you later. And he locks the door, puts the key through the door and he's like, that's just proof so that the police know that I haven't got a key anymore. And he drives off into the night singing into her dildo.

• 45:29Chris Williamson?

  Oh my god.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  Just films himself. And like the whole time, there's a lot of like excitement in his voice, but you can hear the tone of sadness underneath where he's just like.

• 45:39Chris Williamson?

  That's the way to deal with it, though. And like it's it's British as well, isn't it?

• 45:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:42Chris Williamson?

  Like the guy is like from, yeah, he's like just Yorkshire or Leeds or something like that. And the guy is.

• 45:47Speaker 02

  So it's very realistic and it's all filmed in like nine sixteen vertical.

• 45:52Chris Williamson?

  Oh, right.

• 45:53Speaker 02

  On like a front facing camera. All right, darling, read read clue number four. Okay, over to the next one and you've got, and it's like, he's put like sparkles and glitter on the car.

• 46:01Jonny?

  He's had like a psychotic event when he's found out about it, he's like, masterminded this real.

• 46:07Chris Williamson?

  Just accessed another level of cognition because he's been so hurt by.

• 46:10Speaker 02

  And then driving off with her dildo, like it's the final level of thought.

• 46:15Chris Williamson?

  That's actualisation, isn't it?

• 46:16Speaker 02

  Actualisation?

• 46:17Chris Williamson?

  That's self-actualisation, like the dildo, you know what I mean, that's also his hierarchy of needs and then at the very, very top, just on the top is.

• 46:23Jonny?

  The tip of the dildo.

• 46:24Chris Williamson?

  Tip of the dildo. Liam Neeson, we're gonna talk about Liam Neeson. This is a fucking minefield for us to.

• 46:30Speaker 02

  So can you get some background on?

• 46:32Chris Williamson?

  So, um, for the people who don't know, Liam Neeson has.

• 46:36Jonny?

  Very particular set of skills.

• 46:37Chris Williamson?

  Yes, he does. Well, he does and that's the issue. Liam Neeson.

• 46:44Chris Williamson?

  That's the first sound video guy Dean has ever made, but he's not in the room. So Liam Neeson is promoting a new film, which I think is actually a dark comedy. I don't think it's actually an action film. It's a dark comedy about revenge and during an interview, he is asked, how do you understand the emotions that are going through this? And in his very sort of dark, slow.

• 47:09Speaker 02

  Gravely kind of way.

• 47:10Chris Williamson?

  Irish voice, he says, well, I have a personal experience with this. A close friend of mine was raped and I asked her, did she know the person? And she said, no. And I said, what ethnicity was she? And she said it was a black man. So for the next few nights, I went out with a cosh. Which is like a small baton, walking the streets of Ireland in black neighbourhoods, looking for a black man. To start on me so that I could kill him. And after a little bit of time, I sort of caught myself.

• 47:49Chris Williamson?

  And a lot of the emotions had drained a little and I was able to be shocked at my own degree of behaviour. Nothing had occurred, but. That's how I'm able to embody or understand this particular degree of revenge.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  He all he talks about the shame that he felt on himself and said, I realised that even thi- this was me feeling this in the context of living in Northern Ireland and um seeing all of the the atrocities that are done. And yet still having fallen prey to that same thought loop and then realising that actually I'm just as bad as them and. And then, yeah, so I guess he said he had that thought forty years ago, was it?

• 48:26Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  And so people were slating him now.

• 48:30Chris Williamson?

  They called him a racist.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  For having a thought forty years ago that he's recognised.

• 48:35Chris Williamson?

  He acted on it.

• 48:36Speaker 02

  He did act on it, yeah.

• 48:37Chris Williamson?

  Well, yeah, I suppose.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  Supposed to no consequence, similar to as you said about the fire thing where like, nothing was.

• 48:43Chris Williamson?

  Nothing happened, yeah. Well, I mean, so the the thing that's, so do you see John Bar- John Barnes? The footballer.

• 48:49Jonny?

  Step up for him.

• 48:50Chris Williamson?

  Has come out saying he's a hero. And you're like, I mean, fair enough, John Barnes, not the first person I'd think of to call on.

• 48:57Jonny?

  No, I know.

• 48:57Speaker 02

  Very, very peculiar, that's.

• 48:59Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 48:59Jonny?

  You know. And where's that connection?

• 49:01Chris Williamson?

  Do you know if Liam needed to call on someone of like a black heritage? You wouldn't be like, yeah, I'm gonna ring John Barnes. Like, you you you'd have thought like Denzel, you know Denzel, I bet you know Denzel.

• 49:13Jonny?

  Bring Denzel, very similar guys, aren't they?

• 49:15Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, like that, like Equalizer type.

• 49:17Jonny?

  Sort them out, wouldn't he?

• 49:18Speaker 02

  Ainsley Harriet.

• 49:19Chris Williamson?

  What? What what gravitas does Ainsley Harriet bring to the conversation other than Liam Black? He's a, he is a lunatic, yeah. Is Ainsley Ha- and it's not Ainsley Harriet that does the adverts for the Travelodge, is it?

• 49:31Jonny?

  Give me, go to Ram.

• 49:33Speaker 02

  Get out.

• 49:35Chris Williamson?

  Chris. That's Lenny Henry, isn't it?

• 49:39Jonny?

  All right, that's a smidge racist.

• 49:41Chris Williamson?

  Well, no, the the two similar aged British black, like, per TV personalities.

• 49:48Jonny?

  Okay.

• 49:53Speaker 02

  I think, no, I I think it's actually because um Lenny Henry has a routine where he was approached by a certain media company saying, can can you do this gig for us? And it slowly transpired that they thought he was Ainsley Harriet.

• 50:05Chris Williamson?

  Is that true?

• 50:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I I think it's one of the routines that one one of them has anyway.

• 50:09Chris Williamson?

  Okay.

• 50:09Speaker 02

  So.

• 50:10Jonny?

  Um, have you seen all of the Ainsley Harriet videos where he's, people have like really taken it seriously?

• 50:15Speaker 02

  They've gone full video guide on it and edited him down to look like a proper clip. They put like horror music over the top and then.

• 50:23Jonny?

  Is that Ainsley Harriet on the top of a, on the top of a cliff, can I?

• 50:27Speaker 02

  Why is he doing that?

• 50:28Jonny?

  And then he's like whisking this thing for ages.

• 50:31Speaker 02

  Slow down.

• 50:31Jonny?

  And getting, getting, yeah. And then he's rubbing meat and just give you a good old rap, good old rap. And there's a whole, like, very harrowing series on YouTube of this stuff.

• 50:42Chris Williamson?

  Jesus, it'll be on Reddit or 4chan.

• 50:43Jonny?

  It will, yeah, something like that, but honestly.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  I love how the internet does that. It just rolls with something.

• 50:47Jonny?

  It's just, yeah. And he'll, he'll have no idea why.

• 50:51Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. So, yeah, Liam Neeson and then John Barnes and there's, there's been a, a, he's been the subject of an awful lot of derision for it, I suppose, which is mad because you are right, like, it was forty years ago. It was something, the, the main question is, can someone be held accountable for thoughts that they have? Because you are right, that's essentially all that happened. And the argument is, well, if it had been a Irishman or if it had been a Swiss person or a German or an Asian or whatever it is, the, the racism wasn't racism, it wasn't racism against people of black heritage.

• 51:33Chris Williamson?

  It was tribalism against anyone from the tribe of people who attacked his friend.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  Later as well, didn't he? He said, I was just looking for a symbol of my anger that I could.

• 51:40Chris Williamson?

  It was an avatar, right? He was looking for someone to outlet that aggression onto. And Sam Harris and Joe, uh, Joe Rogan said, like, hit the nail on the head. And they were like, if you want people in the world to be able to learn from others' mistakes, like that situation, you're not going to get much more perfect than this is a learning opportunity for everybody to understand someone who has everything to lose, talking about a situation like this. So Liam Neeson, with all of his qualities and virtues that everyone admires him for, being this amazing actor and looking so cool and, you know, like, he's, he's everyone's perfect uncle, isn't he, really? And you're like.

• 52:19Chris Williamson?

  And this guy has had the bravery to come out and even he, as talented and famous as he is, is still falls prey to these kind of juvenile.

• 52:30Jonny?

  I suppose it's primal. Should he not have thought it? Or should he not have said that he thought it? Because those are the only two things that have happened. And people are criticizing him, so I'm sure most people have had a dark thought at some point.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  And so the lesson is here that you're not allowed, that if you have a dark thought like that.

• 52:46Jonny?

  You can't never talk about it, yeah.

• 52:48Speaker 02

  As if that's the solution.

• 52:49Chris Williamson?

  He got the, he got the cosh out and he walked out with it. So it's more than a dark thought, isn't it? That's what everyone's going to say.

• 52:55Jonny?

  Okay, so I suppose it's that's an action of someone in a very emotional, very, he's very upset, very angry. Taking a step towards acting on something, but caught himself before he did it. But it's still better than acting on it.

• 53:12Chris Williamson?

  Well, definitely, yeah.

• 53:13Jonny?

  It is a difficult one, though. I see that.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  You know, there are people, especially the, the, the thought police kind of people that try and jump on things like this. They are under this illusion or lie that they don't have prejudices. As if, as if they're somehow these like beacons of, it's like everyone has prejudices that the data shows that like, so fat people is a particular example, that the data shows that people who look at photos of fat people on average will rate them as less intelligent and um less charismatic or less likeable and there's certain qualities that, or lazy.

• 53:50Jonny?

  Yeah, lazy, smelly, all those sorts of things. Like, do they associate it with lack of discipline, I think, don't they? And what that feeds into.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  And so that, you know, there, there's, there would be similar ones with, with all kinds of minorities or groups of people, but.

• 54:03Chris Williamson?

  Any characteristic.

• 54:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, any characteristic.

• 54:06Chris Williamson?

  Someone who's got curly hair, someone who's tall, someone who's short.

• 54:09Speaker 02

  Actually, you have to be able to discriminate to be able to navigate your way in the world. So it's not as if, um, if you just eliminate all of that. People will be like, oh, I'm blind to colour or I'm blind to whatever. It's like, that's not.

• 54:20Chris Williamson?

  You're not a very effective, effective actor there, are you?

• 54:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, well, it's just not possible. Like you, you know, this is uh.

• 54:28Jonny?

  It's, it's the same about people who, I remember the reason I watched the fire documentary was my, like Instagram, social media, like lights up with everyone's got an opinion on why he was shit. But like, you don't know, you, it's easy to just look at him, look at a guy who's like, tried to make something fantastic. And it's gone down the shit and he, he really made a mess of it in lots of ways, but like at one point. It started off as a great idea and a brilliantly executed idea that might have been fantastic. And no one knows how they would have reacted in his situation when they were faced with this like, fucking hell, like I've taken this too far.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  It's very easy to sit from the armchair and be like.

• 55:05Jonny?

  Well, actually, most, most people couldn't even get anything to that point.

• 55:08Chris Williamson?

  Another scene, another scene from the Fyre Festival documentaries come in my head, which is Ja Rule sat on that Google Hangout. With everyone, everyone in the room, and he's going like. Fucking hell, guys, like, you know, we don't need to worry, yeah, like, like, nobody died, and you're like. Okay, like, yes, you're right, nobody died. And what's the example that he uses?

• 55:31Speaker 02

  I remember watching that thinking like, that it's, could have been quite likely people could have died on that.

• 55:34Chris Williamson?

  He uses an example of like some company that came back from them.

• 55:38Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:39Chris Williamson?

  From the brink and was like, like, look, they, they can't. No, that was one of the examples that was used, that was used by the other guy, wasn't it? But it's like, you know, like, oh, it's Samsung. It's like, oh, Samsung, you know, they're blowing up phones in people's pockets, like, you know, we, we're not killing anyone, you're like. Right, yeah, maybe, you're not fucking Samsung either, are you?

• 55:58Jonny?

  They had quite a lot of reputation before.

• 56:00Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, well, they didn't open up with a brand new phone that blew people's legs off.

• 56:06Chris Williamson?

  Have you seen as well, you, you will have done, because you get on flights all the time to weddings, don't you?

• 56:10Speaker 02

  Constantly.

• 56:10Chris Williamson?

  Um, have you seen now that if you drop your phone in between the seats of a plane? You're not supposed to move your seat or try and get the phone yourself, you need to bing and wait for the attendants to come.

• 56:23Jonny?

  Why?

• 56:23Chris Williamson?

  Because their concern is if you have like a Samsung Galaxy Note seven or whatever the fuck it is.

• 56:28Jonny?

  A mistake.

• 56:28Chris Williamson?

  And you move, you move your seat back, crack it.

• 56:32Jonny?

  Alright.

• 56:32Chris Williamson?

  And the lithium battery goes, that everyone's up in fossil.

• 56:35Jonny?

  This is why you shouldn't be allowed on a plane unless you've got an iPhone.

• 56:39Chris Williamson?

  And everything would be much simpler because the people who've made bad decisions would be confined to the, where they live.

• 56:45Jonny?

  That is true.

• 56:46Chris Williamson?

  We're gonna get a lot of hate for that.

• 56:47Jonny?

  Rory, Rory Sutherland says the same, he's like, you know.

• 56:51Chris Williamson?

  After a while, people don't care about clock speed or megapixels for the for the front facing camera. After a while, they just want something that looks nice. You're like, well, that's it. That's exactly why.

• 57:01Jonny?

  So the fact that you have an iPhone and you have a MacBook is is that is the explanation of why it's a better decision.

• 57:09Chris Williamson?

  You are Canary in the coal mine for.

• 57:11Jonny?

  But you you shop on features. You don't care about the fact like.

• 57:15Speaker 02

  I do have this, though. This is like, okay, quite an old iPhone by this point.

• 57:19Jonny?

  Like the the Google Pixel or like whatever the latest Samsung is probably on a features per per pound basis is much better.

• 57:27Speaker 02

  That's not my criteria, though.

• 57:28Chris Williamson?

  Yours is integration with existing.

• 57:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's it's convenience, integration and speed of of access for stuff, which is why Alfred is the closest thing to my heart that anything ever could be.

• 57:38Chris Williamson?

  Where's your hat?

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Oh, I've I've got it for the webinar. George got me a lovely Christmas present, which is a cap that says make Alfred great again.

• 57:47Chris Williamson?

  It's so fucking good.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  They don't even have an affiliate scheme. Alfred, what are you doing?

• 57:52Jonny?

  You got in touch with him?

• 57:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:54Chris Williamson?

  You do know that if if ninety five to ninety eight percent of people who are listening won't know what Alfred is and they're thinking this is fucking Alfred fellow's good, isn't he? They've got a hat made about him.

• 58:03Speaker 02

  Sounds like a nice nice lad.

• 58:05Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, he's a he's a bloody good fellow. I tell you what, if Liam Neeson had had Alfred.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  Oh, he wouldn't have had these problems.

• 58:10Chris Williamson?

  He wouldn't have done it all.

• 58:12Jonny?

  So why do you have? Why did you buy a MacBook rather than a PC? Because you didn't buy it because you thought Alfred exists.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I I didn't, but I think use anyone use a PC for three minutes and it'll answer that question.

• 58:27Jonny?

  So many people, like, because where I used to work, everyone has PCs.

• 58:32Speaker 02

  So this is part of it as well.

• 58:33Jonny?

  Yeah, it's just what their systems run on.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  So so we we've both worked in companies where you're forced to use a Windows computer and the whole time you just.

• 58:39Jonny?

  I feel like when you speak to someone who uses a PC, they think Mac's like, oh, I can't use it. There's no my computer. There's no, you know, no control panel. What do I do?

• 58:47Speaker 02

  That that onboarding process to learn to use a Mac is about thirty minutes, isn't it? Like, I think that's such a weak excuse to say that, oh.

• 58:55Jonny?

  It is like using the the only comparison that I can make between having a MacBook and having anything else. Is actually no, I I've never used Linux or or like.

• 59:05Speaker 02

  I've used Linux, but.

• 59:06Jonny?

  I see that as like, like stabilizes off, like really good if you can make it work.

• 59:12Speaker 02

  Um.

• 59:12Jonny?

  Or you just.

• 59:13Speaker 02

  It's not.

• 59:13Jonny?

  So A B C.

• 59:14Speaker 02

  So so it it used, I think about ten years ago, maybe fifteen years ago. You if you had a bit of developing knowledge, you could really use Linux to your advantage and it was a forefront. Now Mac has even overtaken that and there are a lot of developers moving over to using Mac as a as a thing.

• 59:31Jonny?

  Um.

• 59:31Speaker 02

  Um. And the problem with P C is that because it's incumbent, because large banks and lot, you know, lots of, there's lots of corporate use of Microsoft. Even though it's terrible and even though there's so much problems with it, because the cost of.

• 59:46Jonny?

  Such a.

• 59:47Speaker 02

  Switching everything over is so large.

• 59:48Jonny?

  I don't know, I've never ever walked into Santander or like Lloyd's and looked behind and go.

• 59:56Chris Williamson?

  Everyone's got new.

• 59:56Jonny?

  The iMac.

• 59:57Chris Williamson?

  Pros, yeah.

• 59:57Jonny?

  No, it's not, it's not happening.

• 59:59Chris Williamson?

  Some of that will be cost.

• 1:00:00Jonny?

  Oh, you suppose.

• 1:00:01Chris Williamson?

  Big stuff.

• 1:00:01Jonny?

  But processing power.

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  It's so ironic because like if if they add up all, I mean, how, let's say, if you had add up all the time that you spent waiting for a computer at at your old job.

• 1:00:10Jonny?

  Uh.

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  Um, like per day.

• 1:00:12Jonny?

  Well, not even that, the amount of times I had to repair my computer.

• 1:00:15Speaker 02

  Okay, so so the number of work hours that they like total labour that's lost multiplied by all the employees of the company, it's got to go into the.

• 1:00:21Jonny?

  Buy everyone a MacBook Pro.

• 1:00:23Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  Buy everyone a MacBook Pro.

• 1:00:25Chris Williamson?

  The the it's just, it's like using a different machine, it's a different category of everything.

• 1:00:31Jonny?

  Um. See, have you ever have you ever played in a phone shop with a different phone that isn't an iPhone?

• 1:00:37Chris Williamson?

  Um, not for a long time.

• 1:00:39Jonny?

  I just feel like, I know, obviously I'm biased, but I feel like using it is more cumbersome in every way.

• 1:00:46Chris Williamson?

  Um.

• 1:00:47Speaker 02

  I I would honestly love if if anyone's watching this on YouTube and you have a a sincere objection to. Or some reason that we're overlooking as to.

• 1:00:57Chris Williamson?

  Like, why should we use a Google Pixel? Why should we use a Samsung Galaxy Note seven or a L G?

• 1:01:02Speaker 02

  I'm all ears, like I'd I'd be keen to switch if there's some convincing reason to.

• 1:01:06Jonny?

  Most the most of the people that have said to me you should switch, it's on it's on either on price or. Because they don't like Apple.

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:15Jonny?

  So like the my reason, my reason for not buying a Samsung is not because I don't like Samsung, it's because I like Apple and what Apple make. And everything just.

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  Actually, I want to like Samsung. I want to like a P C.

• 1:01:25Chris Williamson?

  You're just a contrarian.

• 1:01:27Jonny?

  Well, if it's better, if it's much better than than great.

• 1:01:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:31Jonny?

  So you're right, like, but if you had then buy a Samsung laptop to get the same connectivity. You would have a worse experience than what you have now.

• 1:01:37Chris Williamson?

  The downstream effects of changing that device are AirPods don't work.

• 1:01:42Jonny?

  Oh, they really have got us locked in.

• 1:01:44Chris Williamson?

  I I iPad won't sync up like laptops not good.

• 1:01:48Jonny?

  Even things like if we we all went to a cafe and I had the lap, the password for the wifi and you two didn't press a button and you both got the password.

• 1:01:56Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:56Jonny?

  You know, things like that. Someone sat and thought, what's someone's life like with a MacBook? And then let's make it a little bit easier.

• 1:02:03Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:04Jonny?

  And that's what they do.

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  It's so it's changed David's life. He he was staunch, even with these like, I hate Apple. I'm not paying three hundred quid for a laptop, which is a second hand refurbished Apple MacBook. I was like, that's honestly.

• 1:02:17Chris Williamson?

  Fucking deal of the century.

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  He was like, no, no. And I was like, look, just bite the bullet, do it. I had to bully him into buying one. He eventually did. And now, after a couple of weeks of his ego, kind of, he's been like, you know what, Yusef?

• 1:02:29Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:30Jonny?

  Has he got Alfred?

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  No, I I have to take him.

• 1:02:34Speaker 02

  He's a big technophobe, yeah, but he's like, why didn't I do this earlier? This is such, this made my.

• 1:02:39Jonny?

  Has he got an iPhone?

• 1:02:40Speaker 02

  He had, he used to have a Chromebook. I think you saw it.

• 1:02:43Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  It was held by two little threads and like all the plastic was peeled off and he had to like hold it like that. And hold the the plug in the socket as well, otherwise it would flicker off and it would only work if you held it at a certain angle. I was like, David, you've really ran that into the ground. Like, do not feel guilty about treating yourself to a new device at this stage.

• 1:03:02Jonny?

  Unbelievable.

• 1:03:04Chris Williamson?

  Uh but yeah.

• 1:03:05Speaker 02

  Liam Neeson.

• 1:03:06Chris Williamson?

  Liam Neeson.

• 1:03:06Jonny?

  New AirPods as well.

• 1:03:08Chris Williamson?

  New AirPods coming out in March.

• 1:03:10Jonny?

  How do you know that?

• 1:03:10Chris Williamson?

  You said.

• 1:03:11Jonny?

  I Googled this yesterday.

• 1:03:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, do you know what it was? You're, oh god.

• 1:03:16Chris Williamson?

  Is it not true?

• 1:03:17Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 1:03:17Chris Williamson?

  Have you lied?

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  I saw a, I saw some related video for something and it said best knockoff AirPods fifty dollars.

• 1:03:25Chris Williamson?

  Right.

• 1:03:25Speaker 02

  And it was a guy reviewing these knockoff AirPods and then the thing after that said AirPods two, so I looked up AirPods two.

• 1:03:31Chris Williamson?

  Uh huh.

• 1:03:32Speaker 02

  And yeah, they seem, they do like a matte black version that's gonna come out next month with some of the features. It just doesn't excite me at all. I, like my, my Bean Pods are lovely.

• 1:03:43Jonny?

  I think they, I think the features are wireless charging and Hey Siri being.

• 1:03:48Speaker 02

  I can't believe that's not part of the.

• 1:03:51Chris Williamson?

  You just double tap it.

• 1:03:52Jonny?

  Yeah, you double, double tapped after.

• 1:03:54Speaker 02

  Okay, I've got Hey Siri on MacBook now.

• 1:03:56Jonny?

  Did you not have it before?

• 1:03:58Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:03:59Jonny?

  I just had to remove it.

• 1:03:59Speaker 02

  It's a special setup you have to do to, to enable Hey Siri.

• 1:04:03Jonny?

  Oh, what, that it just picks it up?

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, we'll, we'll go over that in Life Hacks one oh.

• 1:04:08Chris Williamson?

  Seven.

• 1:04:08Jonny?

  I, wow, really?

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'll, I'll go through this.

• 1:04:12Jonny?

  So exciting, can, can we do Life Hacks now? You Life Hacks now?

• 1:04:15Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, cool, I'm just having a look here, so it's saying that um the potential release date will be within the next couple of months. Latest news, AirPods two, if this is true, it's so shit. AirPods two will reportedly sport a grippier new coating to make the plastic less prone to slipping out of your hands and ears. Another feature, improved bass, although the design is expected to remain the same. Another thing which could be quite cool would be um that you could have biometric uh sensors in them, so you'd be able to have like.

• 1:04:43Jonny?

  Tracking.

• 1:04:44Chris Williamson?

  Fitness tracking from your ears, but it would only work when you go.

• 1:04:49Chris Williamson?

  For the people who are listening, Yusuf's making a rude gesture with his crutch.

• 1:04:54Speaker 02

  I was just stretching my arm.

• 1:04:55Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:56Jonny?

  Backwards and forwards.

• 1:04:57Chris Williamson?

  Um.

• 1:04:58Jonny?

  Racking up steps.

• 1:04:59Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, we're gonna do, we're gonna do a Lifehacks episode.

• 1:05:01Jonny?

  So, hold on, no, no, about that, apparently, if you have an Apple Watch and these new AirPods, the Apple Watch can measure your heart rate, but the AirPods can measure.

• 1:05:11Chris Williamson?

  Temperature?

• 1:05:12Jonny?

  No, like, volume, like, pulse volume or something?

• 1:05:16Chris Williamson?

  What do you mean, the volume?

• 1:05:16Jonny?

  I don't know.

• 1:05:17Chris Williamson?

  Do you mean the volume?

• 1:05:18Jonny?

  No, no, no, it to do with like the, I don't know, help me out, man. Help me out, this is your, this is your bit.

• 1:05:24Speaker 02

  So the, the, this, because I know the Apple Watch has an ECG, apparently.

• 1:05:27Jonny?

  So something to do with, because it can feel your blood flowing.

• 1:05:32Speaker 02

  Like, blood pressure?

• 1:05:33Jonny?

  Picks up something else, I don't know, it was in a, it was in a TechCrunch article, I read.

• 1:05:37Chris Williamson?

  The bottom line is that you need to buy a pair of AirPods, um, and they'll change your life.

• 1:05:42Jonny?

  Who doesn't in the modern world have them?

• 1:05:44Chris Williamson?

  Just him.

• 1:05:44Jonny?

  Did George and Jordan both get them?

• 1:05:46Chris Williamson?

  Yep, off the back of Lifehacks one on one.

• 1:05:48Speaker 02

  I just, I don't think I'd get anything out of it.

• 1:05:50Jonny?

  The trouble is now is that it's got to the point where.

• 1:05:52Chris Williamson?

  It's meta now, isn't it?

• 1:05:53Jonny?

  You, to get them, they'd have to be so good.

• 1:05:57Chris Williamson?

  We've created, we've created an entire narrative.

• 1:05:58Jonny?

  If you got them immediately and they were like, these are quite good.

• 1:06:00Speaker 02

  And I'm like, these don't stay in my ear properly, the sound's a bit rubbish, it's like, you've got to charge them separately, I just, and it looks like you're wearing a tampon in your ear. The whole thing, the whole package just doesn't do it for me.

• 1:06:13Jonny?

  I think you, what you're now doing is, is.

• 1:06:15Speaker 02

  Justifying post hoc, yeah, I can see why you'd think that.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  However.

• 1:06:26Jonny?

  Because also, if we got you some, that would, I think, make it worse.

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  I, I would honestly be annoyed at you if you, because I know my birthday's coming up and I know that you've probably, you, you've, you've probably, like, considered it and I will be very annoyed, like, and I'm just saying this, oh, guys, don't bother, don't give me anything. Like, I'll, I'll be actively upset.

• 1:06:44Jonny?

  Do you remember what, do you remember what we got him last year?

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  This is last year.

• 1:06:49Jonny?

  Got him ham, you don't eat ham.

• 1:06:51Speaker 02

  You just, you, you just like to, to, like.

• 1:06:53Chris Williamson?

  AirPods, AirPods are the audio audible ham, AirPods are listening ham.

• 1:06:59Speaker 02

  But you.

• 1:06:59Jonny?

  Didn't you try a bit of a ham?

• 1:07:01Speaker 02

  I did. It was, it was all right, but it was so.

• 1:07:03Jonny?

  It was a palm, the palm, the ham you said you really liked.

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  Palmer ham.

• 1:07:06Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, so.

• 1:07:08Jonny?

  What else?

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  I had a slice of it.

• 1:07:09Chris Williamson?

  They got the shuhan, the same one that you got.

• 1:07:11Jonny?

  The top video.

• 1:07:11Chris Williamson?

  Tank engine birthday.

• 1:07:13Speaker 02

  Oh, shuhan's incredible. Like, it works as a weapon as well.

• 1:07:17Chris Williamson?

  Yes, unbelievable.

• 1:07:17Speaker 02

  Dean has one. The ham was okay.

• 1:07:20Chris Williamson?

  Mixed bag on the ham.

• 1:07:21Speaker 02

  It was a Palmer ham, but people have said to me afterwards, oh, you shouldn't have just eaten on its own. You have to like.

• 1:07:24Jonny?

  Have you always like a baguette or something?

• 1:07:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:26Chris Williamson?

  It's like someone buying you like a rotisserie chicken and you just eating it cold out of the packet.

• 1:07:30Speaker 02

  I see. And I was just like, oh, it's all right, but I see.

• 1:07:34Jonny?

  Cause we were late to go to Coop, because we had to go back to Amy's house, so you could put the Palmer ham in the fridge.

• 1:07:41Jonny?

  And this time, I think you're gonna have to go back to charge the AirPods.

• 1:07:45Chris Williamson?

  External charger, fine. Um, before we go, what have we got coming up? What episodes are we gonna do coming up? So we're, we're gonna do, oh, this may come out after Life Hacks one or seven.

• 1:07:54Jonny?

  So either in the past or the future of podcast.

• 1:07:57Chris Williamson?

  We may have done or will be doing.

• 1:07:58Jonny?

  Yes.

• 1:07:59Chris Williamson?

  Life Hacks one or seven.

• 1:08:00Jonny?

  Yep.

• 1:08:01Chris Williamson?

  Um, what it's really like running a business.

• 1:08:04Jonny?

  Yep.

• 1:08:05Chris Williamson?

  How to survive after university, after we had that one requested.

• 1:08:08Jonny?

  The trouble, the trouble with that is we've got to go up to death, haven't we?

• 1:08:13Speaker 02

  And we're gonna, we're gonna run.

• 1:08:14Chris Williamson?

  How to survive. It's everything after university. So bear attacks, nuclear holocaust, famine.

• 1:08:20Jonny?

  Bear attacks.

• 1:08:22Chris Williamson?

  It's the first thing I thought of.

• 1:08:23Jonny?

  I mean, the, the trouble is, I don't like you.

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  You can't get attacked by a bear if you're at university, so.

• 1:08:28Jonny?

  That all those things happen after.

• 1:08:29Chris Williamson?

  There are bear freezes on, because once you've matriculated.

• 1:08:32Jonny?

  Open the gates and you see massive fields and it goes on for miles and there's bears and battles and.

• 1:08:39Chris Williamson?

  Have you not?

• 1:08:39Jonny?

  Asteroids.

• 1:08:40Chris Williamson?

  Have you not seen it? Like, when you open the gates from university, it's just a bunch of like sullen bears, you know, kind of just kicking the heels on the floor. Smoking, smoking, wearing leather jackets.

• 1:08:50Speaker 02

  With one foot against the wall.

• 1:08:51Chris Williamson?

  All right.

• 1:08:52Speaker 02

  Leaning back.

• 1:08:54Jonny?

  I just can't believe how fast they run.

• 1:08:56Speaker 02

  Bears, terrifying.

• 1:08:57Chris Williamson?

  They run fast?

• 1:08:59Jonny?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:09:00Speaker 02

  But like proper clumpy.

• 1:09:01Jonny?

  Much faster than you or I could run.

• 1:09:02Chris Williamson?

  Shit.

• 1:09:03Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:05Jonny?

  I think the trouble with seeing a bear, albeit a bear that has decided I'm attacking him, is there's nothing to it.

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  So I've seen the survival guides where they say you need to like put your hands over your head.

• 1:09:15Chris Williamson?

  Make yourself as scary as possible.

• 1:09:17Speaker 02

  But like, I I would still not back myself to try that and think like, I really hope whoever wrote this isn't just having a laugh because otherwise like.

• 1:09:25Chris Williamson?

  You're dead.

• 1:09:26Jonny?

  Oh, so dead.

• 1:09:29Speaker 02

  Especially a bear with a top.

• 1:09:30Chris Williamson?

  Torture.

• 1:09:31Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:33Jonny?

  Or on a bit of a buzz.

• 1:09:34Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, he's on a backy, he's on a backy buzz, wearing a leather, wearing a sleeveless leather jacket.

• 1:09:40Speaker 02

  Like torn off.

• 1:09:40Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:42Jonny?

  Just say bear on each of them.

• 1:09:44Chris Williamson?

  Piss and hate.

• 1:09:46Speaker 02

  That was one of the Woody Rogers, wasn't it? Like a bear with a, a bear with an axe or a shark with a shotgun.

• 1:09:53Jonny?

  The trouble with a bear with an axe, so so a bear doesn't have opposable thumbs and a shark doesn't have hands.

• 1:09:58Chris Williamson?

  And it's underwater?

• 1:09:59Jonny?

  Shotgun probably still shoot. Like, where's the shotgun? It's just mounted here.

• 1:10:03Speaker 02

  Oh, terrifying.

• 1:10:04Jonny?

  The shark has to go like.

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  Harness.

• 1:10:06Jonny?

  And then shoots. Because a shark doesn't have a neck either.

• 1:10:10Speaker 02

  It's just fake.

• 1:10:11Jonny?

  Does that with its head.

• 1:10:12Chris Williamson?

  Well, you you could argue that a shark is all neck.

• 1:10:17Chris Williamson?

  It's just a face attached to a neck.

• 1:10:19Jonny?

  A shark is the most terrifying thing. I I honestly cannot think of anything worse than.

• 1:10:23Chris Williamson?

  Big python for me.

• 1:10:25Speaker 02

  Big squid for me. You know, like the the giant.

• 1:10:28Jonny?

  The shark is a is a big tube of muscle. They swim thirty miles an hour, man. Ten foot long.

• 1:10:34Speaker 02

  Even if you could punch it as hard as you could and it wouldn't.

• 1:10:36Jonny?

  You just have to fucking Bronco, like grab it, hug it and just hold on.

• 1:10:40Chris Williamson?

  I tell you what, I I tell you what, you should follow on Twitter, which is definitely worthwhile, is extinct and animals and rare animals.

• 1:10:46Jonny?

  Right.

• 1:10:47Chris Williamson?

  If you search that, they're both quite big, uh, quite big Twitter accounts. And they just put up like all of this mad mega fauna shit from five million, fifty million years ago. It's like, here is a extinct giant chipmunk that grew to be eight feet high and had like.

• 1:11:06Jonny?

  Jesus.

• 1:11:06Chris Williamson?

  Like there's things that had six eyes, things that had like horns coming out of their head.

• 1:11:11Jonny?

  Why should I have not that around now?

• 1:11:13Chris Williamson?

  Well, because.

• 1:11:14Jonny?

  So boring now.

• 1:11:15Chris Williamson?

  There was, there was a number of large extinctions and then mammals won. We're part of that.

• 1:11:19Jonny?

  I went to see Brian Cox. Shit.

• 1:11:22Chris Williamson?

  I can't fucking believe that you went to go see him.

• 1:11:24Jonny?

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 1:11:25Chris Williamson?

  You'd blow your dick off.

• 1:11:26Jonny?

  Just space time, just being, having someone explaining and using a graph and maths, space time. You know.

• 1:11:37Chris Williamson?

  He was saying on Joe Rogan that they've basically, for this show, they're just filling the entire back of stadiums with LED screens.

• 1:11:46Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:47Chris Williamson?

  And they have, I think it's like a hundred and something square metres of LED paneling.

• 1:11:53Speaker 02

  That's so expensive.

• 1:11:54Chris Williamson?

  Per show, they just fit it. So like Metro Radio Arena might be like sixty, but then they're playing like Wembley and it's like ninety. And then they're playing somewhere in America and it's like, oh, we can only get fifty, but they just go in and apparently the engineers are just like climbing these things.

• 1:12:09Jonny?

  It's very cinematic. So as he's speaking, he's like, so they've got the, um. So Interstellar, the way they create a black hole in Interstellar is with an algorithm that morphs the, the backdrop. So they, he, they had a star backdrop, so black, black skies and stars, run this algorithm and it creates a black hole using what we understand of the science.

• 1:12:29Chris Williamson?

  So it's, it's a simulation, not a rendering?

• 1:12:31Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:32Chris Williamson?

  Cause then it's an actual simulation. So they plug in the, the, um, universal constants to this. So it's.

• 1:12:38Jonny?

  And it creates this.

• 1:12:39Chris Williamson?

  Yes.

• 1:12:40Speaker 02

  So it is accurate, what you're seeing.

• 1:12:41Chris Williamson?

  Exactly how it appears.

• 1:12:43Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:43Speaker 02

  Goodness me.

• 1:12:44Jonny?

  It's, he just thinks everything's going to be absorbed ultimately in black holes.

• 1:12:48Speaker 02

  I love how we sat down for this being like, um, I don't know if we'll have enough to talk about.

• 1:12:52Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, we've still got shitloads to talk about.

• 1:12:54Jonny?

  Being attacked by a bear, space time, fire festival.

• 1:12:57Speaker 02

  Only problem is you come to the end of this and you're like, how do you title it?

• 1:13:00Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I don't know. If you've got any ideas what we should call this series, we were going to call it Catching Up.

• 1:13:04Jonny?

  Sounds like this is apple.

• 1:13:07Chris Williamson?

  It's just buy a pair of fucking AirPods. That's what it should be called.

• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  We're going to get progressively bullied into.

• 1:13:13Jonny?

  If we, if everyone sends us a quid, we'll buy you some AirPods.

• 1:13:15Chris Williamson?

  Easily, easily.

• 1:13:17Speaker 02

  I'll, I'll have to, then that'll cause an admin hassle for me. So I'll have to go and find everyone who donated a quid, return it to them and.

• 1:13:24Chris Williamson?

  Just sell, sell a pair of AirPods and then.

• 1:13:26Jonny?

  So you're going to, you're going to pay for the AirPods using one pound donations?

• 1:13:30Speaker 02

  Well, if you're crowdsourcing it and then you get the airports, I have to then return the airports and find everyone's.

• 1:13:36Chris Williamson?

  Anyway, um, what else we got coming up? So we got the house fire. Oh, yeah. I I sent you that screenshot of that girl who is teaching your threes to do power poses. And they call it a superhero pose. So we did an episode on confidence. It's when you were away, you were at wedding.

• 1:13:54Speaker 02

  Um, I think I did the confidence one. You did confidence. We you didn't do.

• 1:13:59Chris Williamson?

  Oh, maybe you did. I can't remember. Anyway, always how it get lean. Um.

• 1:14:05Chris Williamson?

  And in that I cited a erroneous study about power poses. And now it's been trickled down to some year threes.

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  You're affecting kids' lives, Chris.

• 1:14:18Chris Williamson?

  I genuinely am. I'm really sorry, but.

• 1:14:22Speaker 02

  Is this you apologising?

• 1:14:23Chris Williamson?

  There is a primary school teacher that's making kids do that and they call it the superhero pose. Um, and I said, that's really cool. Would you be able to send me a photo? She said, yes, but now she's had to check with each of the parents individually.

• 1:14:36Speaker 02

  So you've caused her and I've been.

• 1:14:38Chris Williamson?

  Fucking huge amount of downstream. I'm like, messaged her the other day. I'm like, really? Yeah, you don't need to do it. I don't really mind. No, no, no, no, no.

• 1:14:45Speaker 02

  To be honest, they'll probably get a placebo benefit from it.

• 1:14:49Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 1:14:50Speaker 02

  Like if they think it's doing something.

• 1:14:51Chris Williamson?

  It's the most it's the most reliable effect in all pharmacology, isn't it?

• 1:14:55Speaker 02

  It's like when you ask you, like your Pakistani grandma asks you like. Do you like some food? And you're like, um, no, it's all right. She's no, no, no, don't worry. I will.

• 1:15:04Chris Williamson?

  Oh, fuck. She's gone. She's away.

• 1:15:06Speaker 02

  No, no, don't worry about it. It's fine. I will make, I will do it. And she's like cooking up biryani and like a chicken. And you're like, no, no, no.

• 1:15:15Speaker 02

  Don't worry, none of you.

• 1:15:18Speaker 02

  Um. You know how if you take a drug, there's a there's an effect of the drug, like an intended effect. And then usually a side effect that may we may either understand or not understand.

• 1:15:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:31Jonny?

  Yeah. Is that the case with placebo effect?

• 1:15:34Speaker 02

  Can you get side effects from placebo?

• 1:15:36Jonny?

  Like, is placebo anything that can be measured? And if so, is there a side effect?

• 1:15:41Speaker 02

  Oh, I see. Yeah, so you can influence neurotransmitters and the crazy thing about placebo is like you can actually produce almost any sign, like you can produce skin signs and like if you give someone what they think is an allergen, they might start getting like a rash or so.

• 1:16:00Jonny?

  Wow, unbelievable, man.

• 1:16:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:02Jonny?

  So, and there would be no side effect of that because it's just your body reacting how?

• 1:16:07Speaker 02

  I suppose you could get the side effects that someone expects to get. So the amazing thing is like the expectation and the power of the mind on all of the human systems is it's so weird because annoyingly it's like you have so much control over your body, but you don't have that control. It's like.

• 1:16:24Jonny?

  It's just buy-in, isn't it? It's like, which is why the preamble to so much of this stuff is so important. Like if you sell someone, and this again is obviously why.

• 1:16:35Speaker 02

  Even if you know, so if you write on a thing like memory pills and you know that it's sugar and you're taking it, even though you're the one that put the sugar pills in the thing, it still has an effect. So placebo doesn't get negated by knowing that it's placebo.

• 1:16:50Jonny?

  So then it must be down the regulatory. If I, so back when I was seventeen and took Tribulus. Are you saying that because I thought this is working?

• 1:17:01Speaker 02

  This is gonna be the.

• 1:17:02Jonny?

  That there might have been some change? Or is it not? Are we not talking hormone level?

• 1:17:06Speaker 02

  No, no, like could do, yeah.

• 1:17:08Jonny?

  So actually knowing that it doesn't work is the worst thing that can happen to you?

• 1:17:13Jonny?

  Ignorance is bliss.

• 1:17:14Speaker 02

  I suppose also like taking a Tribulus at seventeen, like you probably have all of the the signs of high testosterone anyway, so.

• 1:17:22Jonny?

  You did, didn't you? Jacked.

• 1:17:25Chris Williamson?

  I don't know what you mean.

• 1:17:25Jonny?

  Just swell.

• 1:17:26Chris Williamson?

  Jacked seventeen.

• 1:17:28Jonny?

  I mean, I I I feel like I had quite a high testosterone when I said.

• 1:17:31Chris Williamson?

  Allergic to nuts and jacked.

• 1:17:32Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:33Chris Williamson?

  So, um, another thing, did you see that the How to Survive University, I sent you this screenshot, got shared around a bunch of schools in Papua New Guinea?

• 1:17:42Jonny?

  That's the internet, man.

• 1:17:44Chris Williamson?

  So there was, there was a guy that contacted me and said that I don't know whether it's expats with kids out there, or whether it's um Papua New Guineans that are coming over to university in the UK. But basically said, like, we've got a lot of students that are sixteen, seventeen, are going to go to university over the next year.

• 1:18:03Chris Williamson?

  I've made them all watch How to Survive University.

• 1:18:06Jonny?

  Wow.

• 1:18:06Chris Williamson?

  Because I think it's, it's all of the stuff that they need to know.

• 1:18:10Jonny?

  Shit like that makes me think like, what did I say? Like, what did I?

• 1:18:15Chris Williamson?

  The level of responsibility is so much higher when you realise that people actually listen.

• 1:18:19Speaker 02

  It's annoying when it's only post hoc and you're like, oh shit, but it was quite a good episode.

• 1:18:24Jonny?

  We should just get like a big, like, big warning screen at the beginning, like, the following is just an opinion.

• 1:18:29Chris Williamson?

  Not medical advice, please heed, like, legal.

• 1:18:32Jonny?

  You is a doctor.

• 1:18:34Chris Williamson?

  You are this, but the following is not medical.

• 1:18:36Speaker 02

  So I'm gonna have to start um qualifying, I am not your doctor.

• 1:18:41Chris Williamson?

  Because you can't say not a doctor because you are. That's hilarious. What was that, Tony Robbins? I am not your mentor.

• 1:18:48Jonny?

  I am not your guru.

• 1:18:49Chris Williamson?

  I am not your doctor.

• 1:18:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:51Jonny?

  Let's get you on Netflix.

• 1:18:53Chris Williamson?

  I'd love to see you on that. Oh, I'll tell you what, another awesome statistic for you that Daniel Sloth gave, Sloth, Daniel Sloth gave me in Video Guide Dean, was that to record Jigsaw and Dark for Netflix, single show, hour and a half ish or so of recording, forty grand each.

• 1:19:14Speaker 02

  Per episode.

• 1:19:14Chris Williamson?

  Forty thousand pounds to record an hour, like ninety minutes.

• 1:19:18Jonny?

  So that's nowhere near as much as I thought it would be.

• 1:19:21Chris Williamson?

  What, to record ninety minutes of stuff, forty grand?

• 1:19:24Jonny?

  And to get it on Netflix?

• 1:19:26Chris Williamson?

  No, just to record it.

• 1:19:27Speaker 02

  Like, the cost of the cameras, paying all the actors and the, it must be like thirty people.

• 1:19:32Chris Williamson?

  It's a, it's a comedy special stand-up show of him on his own.

• 1:19:35Speaker 02

  Oh, I thought you meant Dark, the uh, like, the the German TV show.

• 1:19:39Chris Williamson?

  Oh, no, so. It's a.

• 1:19:41Jonny?

  Was that what you were thinking?

• 1:19:42Chris Williamson?

  No, no. So it's a comedy comedian, stand up on stage ninety minutes, just him. Recorded to the spec that Netflix require it to be done at. And then he did it. And what he did was he'd funded it out of his own pocket.

• 1:19:55Jonny?

  Did Netflix pay ahead of time?

• 1:19:57Chris Williamson?

  No. So he was doing this and it hadn't even been picked up by Netflix. So but his agent was like, look, like, fuck it, you're doing this to her, you're doing your routine. And he does a new routine every year. So like, look, you need to.

• 1:20:07Jonny?

  What? So you make it to the spec of Netflix just in case they put in a bid?

• 1:20:10Chris Williamson?

  In case they want it. And that's what he did. That's how. And he'd done both of these things. And apparently, like, the last show of the tour. And it was the one that he'd recorded for Jigsaw, pretty much like that day or the next day, got off stage. Call from Netflix, we want it. And the way that they did it, they will, once they accept that they want it. They'll front you the cash, because not everyone's got eighty grand lying around. And they said, got a hundred and twenty grand for you here. He went, thank you very much. Cost me eighty. Pushed it back to them, like, took the money. Gave them videos.

• 1:20:40Jonny?

  Wow. So you, so there were presumably people that are going broke by making a production.

• 1:20:46Chris Williamson?

  Running out of working capital, essentially.

• 1:20:48Jonny?

  There must be, actually, yeah.

• 1:20:49Chris Williamson?

  So is there, so. He profited in that instance. But is that, is that, no, he, he gave them the balance back?

• 1:20:57Jonny?

  No, no, no.

• 1:20:59Chris Williamson?

  But is there any other gain from having a show on Netflix? Well, massive exposure, like.

• 1:21:03Jonny?

  Is that it?

• 1:21:04Chris Williamson?

  Conan O'Brien and so. I don't know whether he actually gets paid for it. I'm gonna guess they'll have to buy it. They'll have to buy the thing.

• 1:21:11Jonny?

  Because I, I've often wondered, so, so Darren Brown is a good example of this, had a bunch of Channel Four documentaries and has put them all on Netflix now. And then he's done his most recent one for Netflix.

• 1:21:21Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:22Jonny?

  So like, how is that money? Maybe it's not, maybe it's like, it's the Channel Four legal team that then, because they own the rights to distribution.

• 1:21:28Chris Williamson?

  It won't be Darren that owns the rights, I don't think so. Definitely won't.

• 1:21:31Jonny?

  And then also Spotify, if you're a band on Spotify, do you get paid by listen minutes?

• 1:21:36Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, so you get paid per stream, but it's a, it's pittance. It's tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny amounts.

• 1:21:43Jonny?

  It just all feels very much like the, because if it's not in it for the content producers. The quality content's just gonna plummet over time.

• 1:21:51Chris Williamson?

  Well, that's all, all the.

• 1:21:54Speaker 02

  But I suppose that it just becomes the buyer's market for content. Like if Netflix have the monopoly on on content or Spotify. Yeah, you can sell your your stand up show to Hulu stand up or whatever. No one's gonna care. And so then people start putting in bids and broking themselves potentially by, because there must be shows that don't make Netflix, but they've recorded it to the specification.

• 1:22:13Chris Williamson?

  I don't think, I think based on what Daniel was saying, the way that he did it is very alien. Like most people fronting it and having such a big dick that they think, I haven't been asked to record this, but I'm so confident in my quality. That I'm gonna do it. And he done it.

• 1:22:31Speaker 02

  So he had no hedge.

• 1:22:33Chris Williamson?

  That's.

• 1:22:33Speaker 02

  But he's doing it anyway, doesn't he?

• 1:22:34Chris Williamson?

  Zero.

• 1:22:35Speaker 02

  He's recording.

• 1:22:36Chris Williamson?

  But not at the spec of Netflix.

• 1:22:37Speaker 02

  Right. So he's taking a small risk.

• 1:22:40Chris Williamson?

  He's taking a lot. Like, I don't think he'd, like, he wasn't, he was recording them and put them out on YouTube, but it wasn't, it would have been like five grand or something probably to have got it done, like.

• 1:22:50Speaker 02

  Who was really annoyed at Daniel's loss for the the winding neck in comments on Twitter? Do you remember where he was like, it's so arrogant to assume that out of all the people in the world, there's only one of them that's good enough for you. Wind your neck in.

• 1:23:06Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:06Speaker 02

  Like.

• 1:23:07Chris Williamson?

  Those are a lot of people got cross, a lot of people and where the views are picking up. There's this weird thing that YouTube does where it's like there's a little hump that you've got to get over. And we did it with Sargon and it's happened with Daniel as well now. And it's like, it just sort of trickles along, trickles along and then it just gets over this ridge and just fucking three wheels away. So we've done like more than fifty percent of the views over the last couple of days, even though it's been up for like nearly two weeks now.

• 1:23:35Speaker 02

  It's it's it's whether, because we have that with our videos, like the the videos that have a lot of views, keep getting views. Videos that have no views, get no views.

• 1:23:42Chris Williamson?

  It's true.

• 1:23:42Speaker 02

  So there must be a, this is one for, maybe Video Mandi can do a cameo explain.

• 1:23:47Chris Williamson?

  You can't hear him and you can't see him when he comes in front of the camera, nothing happens. Anyway, so to finish.

• 1:23:52Speaker 02

  Could just be code.

• 1:23:53Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, it's lines of matrix code. What else have we got that's coming up? We're gonna do.

• 1:23:58Speaker 02

  So life hacks, maybe relationships, if anyone's keen on it.

• 1:24:01Chris Williamson?

  We need to do the Instagram.

• 1:24:02Speaker 02

  Instagram phone. Oh, yeah. Like, I think we've got enough for a life fails as well, if you.

• 1:24:08Chris Williamson?

  So I've got.

• 1:24:09Speaker 02

  You've you've got enough.

• 1:24:13Chris Williamson?

  I've got under life fails. So I had one, it came to me in the same way I've been keeping keeping a life hacks diary and keeping a life fails diary. A life fail came to me, noted it down. I was in the gym and I was like, brilliant, I've got one. Cause I didn't have any, noted it down in the gym, went back to training.

• 1:24:29Speaker 02

  What did you note it down on? Did you have your apple shuffled?

• 1:24:31Chris Williamson?

  Just on notes.

• 1:24:33Speaker 02

  On your phone?

• 1:24:33Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:34Speaker 02

  Ah, okay. So are you, are you bringing your phone to the gym now?

• 1:24:37Chris Williamson?

  I need to for programming, which is slightly annoying, but it's, I'm pretty good. I'm still quite like disciplined with it. Hey Siri, yeah, I could have done, but.

• 1:24:45Jonny?

  Even while you're in a handstand, hey Siri.

• 1:24:48Chris Williamson?

  Double tap, I can't do single handed. Um.

• 1:24:52Speaker 02

  That's a selling point. So.

• 1:24:53Jonny?

  Stand, hey Siri. You wouldn't even have to do that.

• 1:24:56Chris Williamson?

  And I've got life fails and I've gone back and I've had a look and I've just written the word anal. God. And I'm like.

• 1:25:03Jonny?

  Are you, you're about to say forgotten?

• 1:25:04Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:06Speaker 02

  Anal. I hate when that happens. Sometimes I'll, I'll like, I'll be like, oh, I've got an appointment on the calendar. So I'll go to the, the date and I just write nine AM, twenty first April. And then you get to the time and you're like, oh no.

• 1:25:18Jonny?

  This could be. Any best example of that is what you told me that you went to see Yusuf and he was sat eating a bowl of spinach. And you're like, why are you eating spinach? I don't know, it was in my calendar.

• 1:25:28Speaker 02

  Well, well, because I trust the research that past Yusuf has done.

• 1:25:32Jonny?

  But surely it's, so it's like when we go, it's like when we go to Coop and you order a whole chicken and we go, why are you doing that? And you say, it's because I need to eat more. Because you can't just, if you just have spinach the one time in a bowl.

• 1:25:42Chris Williamson?

  No, but if you just eat more when you're at Coop, like that surely that needs to be.

• 1:25:45Speaker 02

  It should become a habit.

• 1:25:46Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, but I mean, the, so what would have been probably a little bit more accurate would have been, had a reminder come up as I arrived at your house saying, remember to eat. And you'd have been like.

• 1:25:57Chris Williamson?

  What? How much? Why? When? Like, at least. The anal thing would have been like, it, it would have prompted me, at least I'd have been able to remember what I was talking about, but I have no idea what it is. So it may come back to me or it may not.

• 1:26:09Jonny?

  Does anal not trigger anything? Cause anal's not, it can't relate to that many things.

• 1:26:13Chris Williamson?

  I don't think it was about anal. I think it must have, I must have written something. It's auto corrected it to anal. And then I've, so I don't know.

• 1:26:21Speaker 02

  Coal, no, that's, that's T nine, isn't it? Remember the old like number texting?

• 1:26:26Chris Williamson?

  Right.

• 1:26:26Speaker 02

  Coal, cock and anal are all the same combination of.

• 1:26:29Jonny?

  A lot of stuff like this.

• 1:26:30Chris Williamson?

  Jesus Christ. Uh, right. Uh, thank you very much for watching. Please do not forget to press subscribe, share the episodes, proppinfitness.com will be linked in the show notes below. And make sure that you go and check out, what should I go and check out? Go check out the episode with Rory Sutherland, uh, from a couple of weeks ago. That's good. Thank you. Bye.

• 1:26:47Speaker 02

  Bye.

• 1:26:52Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, oh yeah. Offense.