Ky Dickens on Universal Consciousness, Mediums, Remote Viewing & What Science Still Can't Explain. Inside The Telepathy Tapes S2

Are telepathy & mind-reading real? Can consciousness exist beyond the brain? Are we living multiple lives at once? The Telepathy Tapes: Season 2 EXCLUSIVE with Filmmaker Ky Dickens In this jaw-dropping, mind-expanding episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, award-winning filmmaker and viral podcast host Ky Dickens returns with a first look at Season 2 of The Telepathy Tapes — and what she reveals will challenge everything you think you know about the human mind, death, and the nature of reality. Ky shares real stories of people accessing impossible knowledge through telepathy and remote viewing, whether plants communicate with us (she says yes and shares her personal proof!), and scientific experiments she has personally witnessed that are finally taking telepathy seriously. Ky Dickens also breaks down: - How Alzheimer's, dementia, and even death can unlock extrasensory abilities - The mystifying moment when the brain shuts down...and something else turns on - Why children learn PSI abilities faster than adults - Scientific experiments that are finally taking telepathy seriously - What nonspeakers are saying after death, and how it’s changing science - Telepathic communication medical caregivers are witnessing in hospitals - Differences between talking to the dead vs the living, telepathically - Is Consciousness manifesting its will through us? - Why unlocking one PSI ability often activates others - Shocking idea that we're living multiple lives simultaneously - Why our beliefs about the afterlife may be based on ancient NDEs - Are these once-taboo topics going mainstream? PLUS... Ky shares her candid response to being attacked by materialists after Season 1, and how Season 2 may crush skepticism for good! Whether you're a skeptic, seeker, or scientist, this conversation will leave you questioning reality…and maybe even stepping outside of it. Season 2 of The Telepathy Tapes is available now wherever you get your podcasts: ⁠https://thetelepathytapes.com/⁠ https://thetelepathytapes.com/ Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/mayimbialik%E2%81%A0 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mayim Bialik?

  There is a place where consciousness exists outside of our bodies that some people have an apparent ability to access. What if it's not that hard to get there?

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Science and institutions have hand waved away the inconvenience of a non-physical world. And this isn't about religion or spirituality. It's just about the fact that we're connected to something bigger. And if you believe that, you're not gullible or silly or ill-informed. You can be extraordinarily smart and intelligent and see that there's a non-physical world. And that might be the more scientific thing to do than to just ignore it altogether.

• 0:36Mayim Bialik?

  The Telepathy Tapes was the number one podcast in the world, launching telepathy and sci-phenomenon into public conversation. The Telepathy Tapes host Kai Dickens joins us to uncover the controversy surrounding season one and discuss how season two will convince even the most skeptical scientists that there's more to reality and consciousness than we've ever fathomed.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  We started hearing from a lot of nurses and doctors and caregivers who are saying, hey, this telepathy is not just with non-speakers. It's with people with Alzheimer's or strokes or comas or dementia in particular. There's something to do with not being as tethered to your physical form. We try to go find, are there legit mediums? Can we scientifically prove it, vet them, look at them from every angle?

• 1:15Mayim Bialik?

  Tell us what you are hoping season two of The Telepathy Tapes can achieve.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  I hope season two will prove that consciousness is fundamental. It is the most basic part of our universe. It became before all physical things. Consciousness survives the physical body and is engaging with us all the time, whether we have a body or not.

• 1:33Jonathan Cohen?

  Have you opened up any of your own telepathic or intuitive abilities?

• 1:45Mayim Bialik?

  Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik.

• 1:45Jonathan Cohen?

  And I'm Jonathan Cohen.

• 1:47Mayim Bialik?

  And welcome to our Breakdown.

• 1:48Jonathan Cohen?

  This is an exclusive look. At season two of the telepathy tapes and some of the biggest topics that are going to be covered that align to many of the conversations that we have been having on this podcast for the last year.

• 2:03Mayim Bialik?

  If you haven't heard of the telepathy tapes, you can probably hear about it in about a dozen episodes where we reference conversations about what is possible to access outside of what we can see, touch, smell, and experience. The telepathy tapes was created by Kai Dickens, who we have in person here today, to talk about some of the biggest lessons from season one of the telepathy tapes and what we can expect in season two, which is all about consciousness. What are the different ways that people can step outside of their bodies, be it in death, from accidents, from Alzheimer's disease, and what can we learn about the places that

• 2:48Mayim Bialik?

  you can go if you do not believe that your body is all that is you?

• 2:53Jonathan Cohen?

  There are some phenomenal and really unbelievable stories of people who have information and receive information that they could not possibly otherwise know.

• 3:04Mayim Bialik?

  What's really important about this conversation that we have with Kai Dickens is that she doesn't presume to be able to explain everything that she has witnessed, everything that she has catalogued, or everything that we're going to see in the documentary that will be released next year or in season two. But we have a fantastic time talking with her about the limitations of materialism and the ways to best communicate with a larger audience, things like remote viewing, what happens when the brain starts shutting down and new abilities are acquired. We cover everything that's coming in season two, as well as some pretty out there things that even she cannot yet explain.

• 3:45Jonathan Cohen?

  We discuss two different types of telepathy, which is fascinating, and also she describes the scientific experiments with rigorous scientists that are trying to prove to people that this is much more than a one-off phenomenon.

• 4:00Mayim Bialik?

  Also, can plants communicate with us? Kai is going to tell us a very personal experience that points towards yes.

• 4:08Jonathan Cohen?

  As well as explaining that sialability and remote viewing specifically, children can learn it very quickly. Take a second and subscribe anywhere you're listening or watching. We are so grateful to be doing these episodes and having these conversations. And subscribing is the easiest way to help support the show. We really cannot thank you enough.

• 4:31Mayim Bialik?

  We cannot wait to share with you someone we've been wanting to have on. Since we first got turned on to the telepathy tapes, she's here in person with us. Kai Dickens, welcome to the Breakdown.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Break it down.

• 4:44Mayim Bialik?

  I have to say, it's very, very strange to have you in person because I know your voice very well. It's like it lives inside my head. I had never listened to a full podcast all the way through until I listened to the telepathy tapes. So I became intimately acquainted with your voice. And anyway, I am living my own episode of being inside of the telepathy tapes with your voice.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 5:09Mayim Bialik?

  It's a very exciting week as season two just dropped. Start us off by telling us what you are hoping season two of the telepathy tapes can achieve.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  After listening to season one, I hope most people left feeling a little uncertain about consciousness and the materialistic paradigm in which we live. And hopefully, many people realize that there might be more going on, like telepathy, or just a deeper level of consciousness or communication that we're aware of in our physical bodies. And so if you left season one feeling pretty convinced that telepathy is happening for some people, if not all of us, in a subtle way, I hope season two will prove that consciousness is fundamental. It is the most basic part of our universe. It became before all physical things. And that consciousness survives the physical body and is engaging with us all the time, whether we have a body or not.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  So I think that will be the takeaway from season two.

• 6:06Mayim Bialik?

  So those are some pretty, those are very big goals of consciousness. Right, so the first being consciousness is fundamental. The second that when the body dies, the vessel as it were, there is a place where consciousness exists. And that in different ways, we're always able to tap into that no matter what, right?

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 6:30Jonathan Cohen?

  And that consciousness is interacting with us all the time.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  All the time.

• 6:35Jonathan Cohen?

  Needs a lot of unpacking because it goes, just brings up a lot of questions. Like, is the universe intelligent and has a plan or not?

• 6:45Speaker 01

  Us, yes.

• 6:47Jonathan Cohen?

  How is it interacting with us?

• 6:48Speaker 01

  Yes, and I think our episode three answers that question.

• 6:52Jonathan Cohen?

  Solved, case closed.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  I mean, I hope so.

• 6:54Jonathan Cohen?

  Conversation's over.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  You know, because I think what you have to look at is what the universe, what do we know about the universe? It's always creating. It's creating and the destroying and creating again. Like, that is baseline, right? It's all creation, like from like the stars to the earth to all of us to crystals. Like, everything's been created. And so it makes sense if consciousness likes to create, that it's going to create through us. And somehow us, us humans can hear it. I mean, I don't know if bats and like weasels can, can pick up a song or a story, but we certainly can. And what does that mean? And also the fact that we will, with our very precious time on earth, create thousands of different types of lamps or homes.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Or, you know, as Liz Gilbert says, tons of chairs. Like, why? You just need one chair. And so, so that brings up a lot, I think. And we know, you know, in our episode three, we talked to not just creators, but like thinkers and mathematicians and people who will say, like, if I don't grab an idea, it will go on to someone else. And sometimes an idea will come, but if you aren't, you know, ready for it or giving it the time, it will leave you. And if you come back to it, it might just be like a dead limp part of itself. You can push it and prod it and it won't come back. So. What does that mean? It seems like consciousness has a will that it wants to make manifest through us. So, I mean, we explore all of this in season two.

• 8:21Mayim Bialik?

  I should say, my secret reason for having you here is I want to pitch a podcast where I just talk about every episode of the telepathy tapes with you and we get to talk about it on everyone in detail. And we're not going to do that because we've done that with at least a dozen other episodes where we've had guests on and we've poked and prodded and what does this episode mean? You know, we're fascinated with not just the telepathy tapes, but we're fascinated with the fascination about this aspect of our consciousness and our conscious ability to communicate, to communicate in other realms. When people would say to me, "Oh, I listened to the first episode. Oh, I don't know if I'm into it." And I just kept saying, "Keep going. Keep going. Whatever you think is about to happen, keep going."

• 9:02Mayim Bialik?

  And by the time you get to the end, what is opened up is what sounds like an opening to season two, which is, with all of these incredible examples and all of the, you know, ups and downs that you can go through with each of these individual journeys, the sort of thesis that comes out of season one is, there is a place, right? There is a place, a metaphysical place, a mythical place, right? We don't, we don't really know. We don't know. But there is a place where consciousness exists outside of our bodies that some people

• 9:40Mayim Bialik?

  have an apparent ability to access and what if it's not that hard to get there, right?

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 9:48Mayim Bialik?

  So, that for me is sort of like where we then head into season two. Tell us what else season two is going to cover in the field of consciousness.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  So where we left season one, I mean, it kind of leaves with someone passing away. And other non-speaking individuals with a praxia who we talk about in season one, if you haven't listened to it, who are able to communicate telepathically from a long distance are able to telepathically communicate with this young man who passed away.

• 10:15Mayim Bialik?

  And they also know...

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Where he is and what he looks like.

• 10:17Mayim Bialik?

  And when he died.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:19Mayim Bialik?

  That, I mean, I was like, someone explain it.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  All right.

• 10:22Jonathan Cohen?

  That's the striking moment where these children, without being told, there's no possible way that that information could have gotten to them, all seem to know

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:31Jonathan Cohen?

  that a friend of theirs passes.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. That kind of brought up some questions around consciousness, surviving death, and who else can access it, and what is it? Like, where are we going? Because it doesn't seem to be that out of reach for some of the non-speakers that we profile in the first season. So our first episode looks at near-death experiences, going back, not just recently, like 5,000 years in ancient, you know, in ancient civilizations, from China to Samir to, you know, Mesopotamia, and how many of our afterlife beliefs that popped up all over the world and look very similar, weren't just ideas. They're reports from people who'd been there and come back. And so we kind of look at that, and if we can understand, like, what people are thinking

• 11:15Speaker 01

  or saying, where we're going, and this has been, you know, throughout Native America, like, all over the world, same concept of where we're going, then, from there, we can look at, okay, well, if we are going somewhere, it seems that way, then can you communicate from that divide? And then we look into mediumship and try to unpack it scientifically, but also compare, if mediumship is real, and someone's connecting with spirits, obviously, the means of doing that would be telepathy. And we bring in a non-speaker in episode two, who can both communicate from a distance with the living as well as the dead.

• 11:50Mayim Bialik?

  Can you explain, explain what that's like? Just for us to understand someone who is distinguishing between, this is a person who's alive, and I'm able to tap into their... Brain, their consciousness, their thoughts versus, oh, this is a person who is not here anymore. And I have information that only you and they would know.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, it's really interesting and she was such, she's a joy to talk to and she's young. She's 11, you know, so she's, but, um, you know, the mediumship really started happening, I think, for her big time after season one came out and her mom started saying she's being visited all the time, but these are messages from people we barely know, or like, we'll be on an airplane. And she'll say, you need to tell this person that.

• 12:38Mayim Bialik?

  No, that freaks me out.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:40Jonathan Cohen?

  Any examples of things that she got on airplanes that like people needed to know? Like, it's not like, hey, you should tie your shoe.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  No, it's very specific.

• 12:47Mayim Bialik?

  In season one, the boy who knew the guy was writing the book.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Josiah.

• 12:51Mayim Bialik?

  Josiah.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:52Mayim Bialik?

  That one, I was like, I can try and explain and anecdote my way out of everything. When I got to that episode, I was, I'm stumped. So this sounds similar.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Similar.

• 13:03Mayim Bialik?

  There's information that is accurate and specific.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:08Mayim Bialik?

  That can be communicated.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  We have this, this example in that episode, episode two, where she starts typing, says, I have a message for Hunter Chastain, a very specific name. And the mom is like, I met this guy once at like a conference and it was about, it was from his mother who had passed and, you know, the, the, the non-speaker, it's, the mom's name is Maura. She didn't know that this mom passed. And then Amelia starts typing like something about horses and the Derby and all this stuff. And she's like, what the heck? So she calls this man, Hunter Chastain.

• 13:40Mayim Bialik?

  No.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  And Hunter's like, yeah, um, my mom passed and her thing was the Derby and I've just recently started teaching my daughter to ride horses.

• 13:46Mayim Bialik?

  No, it makes me feel, it makes me. My Alex Breakdown is supported by Quince. You know those pieces in your closet that you reach for over and over again? That sweater that somehow works with everything, the jeans you know will always fit just right, the bag you carry everywhere? Those are the pieces that earn a permanent place in your wardrobe and that's what Quince does so well. Quince makes elevated everyday essentials using premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, premium stretch denim. The designs are timeless, thoughtfully crafted and made to be worn again and again. And as the weather gets colder, Quince has everything you need to round out your wardrobe, from warm, responsibly sourced down jackets and cozy cashmere scarves and gloves to beautiful 14 karat gold jewelry that adds the perfect finishing touch.

• 14:28Mayim Bialik?

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• 15:13Mayim Bialik?

  And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was my MB Alex Breakdown. It's the best way to support our show. I feel scared.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  What makes you feel scared about it?

• 15:22Mayim Bialik?

  I just, when, when things like that are articulated, I don't have a materialist framework

• 15:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:30Mayim Bialik?

  to wrap my head around it.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:33Mayim Bialik?

  So what it leaves open is like every possibility of things that we're told cannot be real.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:41Mayim Bialik?

  Right?

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:41Mayim Bialik?

  And it's like this huge what if.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 15:44Mayim Bialik?

  And he's just like, mm-hmm, that's what I predicted. Like, he's Mr. Energy, like, I knew it. Like, when, when we started listening to Slap the Hapes, he's like, mm-hmm, oh, yeah, totally.

• 15:53Jonathan Cohen?

  What I think happens to you is that you feel for a moment, because you're, you think so much.

• 16:00Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 16:00Jonathan Cohen?

  And, and you just

• 16:01Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 16:02Jonathan Cohen?

  brain is constantly humming.

• 16:04Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 16:04Jonathan Cohen?

  And for a moment, when you're speaking, you're sharing that example, what happens, in my opinion, is that she feels just how thin the veil is

• 16:12Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 16:12Jonathan Cohen?

  to the other side.

• 16:13Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 16:14Jonathan Cohen?

  And that The division between living, dead, what's said, what isn't said, is so paper thin that with the right tool, with the right sensing, it's just there. And then also, it may be like, if that is true, well, it starts to break down her worldview.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:32Jonathan Cohen?

  But then also, she's like, are they hearing all of my thoughts? Because there's a lot of thoughts in there.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  They're mostly about you. That's the trickiest topic, actually, that we tackle this season. Because mediumship comes with all sorts of charge around it.

• 16:44Jonathan Cohen?

  Lot of baggage.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  Lot of baggage, right? And if like, like, a sanctioned holy man can talk to the dead, like, that's really okay. You know, then you're, you know, holy, but if you're a woman doing it, you're a witch.

• 16:55Jonathan Cohen?

  He was like, the derby was her thing. What else was in that message?

• 17:00Speaker 01

  That's one of the things we look into. I mean, mediumship carries a lot of baggage. I mean, and there have been like smoky fake seances and, you know, apparitions. And it's like been the most exploitive, crooked field, you know, if you will. And in that episode, we try to go find, are there legit mediums? Can we scientifically prove it, vet them, look at them from every angle? And then like, and then we do a deep dive on one of those mediums. And then she meets this little girl, Amelia. Because what happens with Amelia is she's being overcome by not just non-speakers who want help because their parents haven't taught them to spell and they're locked in, like, they're locked in their body, but also spirits. And so, we ask her, like, is there a difference?

• 17:43Speaker 01

  Like, what's, how does a spirit sound versus a non-speaker? And she says, non-speakers are really loud and persistent and like, there, you know, probably sound more like us, if they're living. And that the spirits feel much more subtle and quiet, but they're like, almost like universally happy. It's interesting, right?

• 18:02Speaker 01

  But she just wanted to be left alone and didn't know how to... To handle that. And then her mom was like, once people realized that she could hear, it's like the influx of both non-speakers and spirits were coming through. But from the guise of mediumship being an exploitative field, we kind of look at that because what does this 11-year-old have to gain? Nothing?

• 18:22Jonathan Cohen?

  That's the best part of it coming through the vessel of an 11-year-old. It's not monetized.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 18:27Jonathan Cohen?

  And this is kind of where I was going with what that, what did the message offer the person? Because it's like, she is being overwhelmed.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:35Jonathan Cohen?

  And she doesn't know what to do with it, I would imagine.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 18:38Jonathan Cohen?

  And I've heard about this before, where people who have an intuition or an ability to hear other realms.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:45Jonathan Cohen?

  Like, maybe there's a lack of people in the call center? So if one of them is in the call center who shows proficiency, they get overwhelmed? And then I'm like, well, are the messages she's able to share with people really impactful? And if, and if she's not monetizing it, then that sort of gives a little, little bit more objectivity.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  Right. She's a very inconvenient thing for people. Right? Because you can't just say, oh, she's trying to make money off of this, or do this, or do this. It's like, she just wants to help people. And I forgot how she said it, but we have this line in the episode of her being like, when people hear this, they know they can be, come happy, that their loved one isn't gone. Like, they're, they're right there. And that's hard to wrap our head around. But I think you just alluded to this, because there is something about like, once something turns on, and this is something I discovered, I didn't know about this until we started like, really going into full hog, all things different. In season two, was that like, it does seem if you turn on some, one of these gifts, others come on. Once the telepathy tapes came out, we started hearing from a lot of nurses and doctors and

• 19:48Speaker 01

  caregivers who were saying, hey, this telepathy is not just with non-speakers, it's with people with Alzheimer's, or strokes, or in hospitals, or in comas, or dementia in particular. And it was like, a lot of nurses and doctors saying, this is true for us too.

• 20:01Mayim Bialik?

  Nurses and doctors are reporting that patients who are non-verbal, or have dementia, are finding a way to communicate with them without words.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  Exactly. But these aren't non-speakers of the praxia autism, they're, these are non-speakers because of a stroke or dementia. And so there was a man, and we did a Talk Tracks episode on this, which was like where we unpacked season one. And he, his wife had early onset dementia. She started talking to him and telling him how to help her go to the bathroom quicker, go in the car. I mean, just the most fundamental things. So it doesn't take 35 minutes, it takes four. And it would work. So he's like, I can hear you, I can hear you. But once that turned on for him, he said, all of a sudden, like, kind of some, oh, that spirit stuff turned on too. And he's like, I don't know how it happened, but my wife suddenly was like, I'm gonna do this out of necessity, because you need to help me go to the bathroom.

• 20:52Mayim Bialik?

  And it opened a portal.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  It opened something else, yeah.

• 20:56Mayim Bialik?

  Which, you know, from a, from a, like, neuroanatomy perspective, right? What we're saying is, if you are tapping into something because of, I mean, I'm just gonna throw out an idea, because of a wavelength that you're able to drop into, right? You're able to drop into some theta state, or you're accessing something, that in that frequency, right? It's like you're tuning the knob of the universe to be what you now are open to hearing. But other people, if they are not tuned to that frequency, they just don't have access to it.

• 21:27Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah. Yes, and, once you learn to tune where you previously were not tuned, right? Like, your antennae were sort of this broad scope where you hadn't actually gone into a specific channel, then you can tune to other channels more easily. So the mechanism is actually adjusted, and becomes more sensitive. Let's just unpack here for a minute, the amount that we just discussed, because-

• 21:53Mayim Bialik?

  What? It's not a big deal to be like, oh, consciousness exists, and people in comas can communicate. You just gotta tune it right.

• 22:00Jonathan Cohen?

  There's a lot of our episodes where I feel like we talk about things in other episodes, and then like, we have a hard time wrapping them back together. So, for example, we talk about people who have this very advanced dementia, having moments of lucidity near the end. Actually, Martha Jo-

• 22:17Mayim Bialik?

  It was with a death doula, and she said sometimes people who are completely non-verbal-

• 22:23Jonathan Cohen?

  For like, months, years even, come back and have this, and so you're like, the neuroanatomy has been damaged, and yet, for a moment, they're totally coherent, and making their goodbyes before passing.

• 22:39Jonathan Cohen?

  And in your example, what we're suggesting is that the person and all of their knowing functioning capability exists outside of the physical form. And when the mechanisms and structure of the physical form are no longer able to provide that communication.

• 22:56Mayim Bialik?

  But it's twofold because Kai is taking it one level deeper. It's not just that it exists. It's that it has intention.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:05Mayim Bialik?

  It wants to be heard, right?

• 23:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:08Mayim Bialik?

  It wants to reach out and make connection, right? That's what you can see or hear.

• 23:14Jonathan Cohen?

  But in that version, it is the general consciousness or the individual's consciousness or the reflection of the larger consciousness that is the individual.

• 23:23Mayim Bialik?

  Donald Hoffman, who has a mathematical model for this. What he said is there are individual consciousnesses that collectively can exist, but also have an individual will, as it were.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:37Mayim Bialik?

  And he shows this mathematically with phenomenal matrix.

• 23:40Jonathan Cohen?

  It gets very complicated very quickly to anyone who's not a mathematician.

• 23:44Mayim Bialik?

  It's very, very nerd level math. But the notion would be that there is a collective consciousness, but that they are.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Individuated as well. So it's like droplets in an ocean, kind of, right?

• 23:54Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, yes.

• 23:55Jonathan Cohen?

  That each droplet has an intention and agency, but also that they're operating as a collective.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Gosh, what would be a better metaphor for that?

• 24:03Jonathan Cohen?

  Thomas Campbell describes it as there is your consciousness, there is someone else's consciousness, and then there's the larger consciousness system. All those nodes are a part of the... Each of those nodes are a part of the larger.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Like we're all hands extending from it. Which, right, to like learn more and the more opportunities and experiences we have, the more we can like grow and know.

• 24:23Jonathan Cohen?

  In, I forget also, I think maybe in Donald Hoffman's conversation, where it just occurred to me, I'm like, if we are perceiving and participating in consciousness and we're sort of, go back to the radio, we're tuning that frequency, what we tune is then fed back into the larger system of consciousness wanting to know itself through us.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:44Mayim Bialik?

  How do you, you know, as the person who's holding all of this? Yeah, what do we do with that? How do we fit this into a larger picture?

• 24:52Speaker 01

  It's really tricky because I think there's a lot here. One is that I think our structures of science and institutions have sort of really kind of like taken a large leap or like hand waved away like the inconvenience of a non-physical world. And it's really, I think, caused us to feel a lot of loss and confusion. And this isn't about religion or spirituality or anything like that. It's just about the fact that we're connected to something bigger. And if you believe that, you're not gullible or silly or stupid or misguided or ill-informed or all these things that, you know, I mean, I know, I used to be like, I can't believe in God, because then, you know, I mean, it's like, that's not true, I don't think.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  And you can be extraordinarily smart and intelligent and clear-minded and see that there's a non-physical world. And that might be the more scientific thing to do than to just ignore it altogether. You know, so I think that's like a big pivot we all have to make. And I think if we can start making that together, we're gonna have a lot more peace in our life and maybe in our society, too. I mean, I don't want to sound like overly glossy, but like, if you realize that you're connected to more, it's harder to just like not give it to flying shits about other people.

• 26:07Jonathan Cohen?

  I totally agree. And that connects to a conversation we had recently about the need for re-enchantment, because as societies lose their sense of meaning and purpose and sense that they're connected to something greater, then we're subject to all the ills of modern-day society of addiction, of depression, of loneliness, of feeling like it's me versus you and that and that's a bottomless pit of despair and distraction.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love that word, re-enchantment.

• 26:36Jonathan Cohen?

  Someone said, like, I'd rather the story be that there is more, right? The materialists are so staunch in their objection to anything other than the physical form that they'll dismiss. And what Jeffrey Kripal says is that they'll just remove everything they can't explain from the table and tell you you're silly for even thinking about it.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Or try to harm the messenger, like, this person can't be trusted and must there's something wrong with them. And I know, like Rupert Sheldrake has been like, just look at the data. Stop talking about me, look at the data. I'll debate you any day, you know.

• 27:08Mayim Bialik?

  I wonder if you can talk to us a little bit about near-death experiences. You know, for us, this has been a realm that is so significant in terms of opening up a legitimate conversation.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:21Mayim Bialik?

  Right? Meaning, it's fantastic to hear the amazing things that people experience.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:27Mayim Bialik?

  And, what does it mean? You know, what are the, what are the messages that people who cross over, right? Bringing back? And I wonder if you can talk a little bit about that, as well as people who claim to have access, right? I mean, it's a kind of near-death experience to speak to people who have crossed over and bring that back as well. What have you learned and what can season two bring us in terms of insight about near-death experiences?

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Well, I love that that was your gateway, like, entry into like the unexplained, because we kind of thought, okay, people are coming into season two, what is going to be the only palatable gateway in? And it was like near-death experiences. Because they become kind of like irrefutable in some cases, because so many people have had them, where there's something called veridical perception, you know what that is? Okay, but for your listeners who don't, like, it's something you can verify during an NDE, a near-death experience. So, like, you might be out of your body and see something in the hospital and report, like, like, one is really graphic, like, a colored bag that they're putting into, like, severed, I mean, that was, okay, like, we can do another example, like, your grandpa getting peanuts out of the thing while they're waiting for you, like, in surgery and stuff like that.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  And, and you know that they never eat peanuts, they don't even like candy, but then, this was an example we heard, but then, you know, we came back and it's like, sure enough, he was having peanuts, or...

• 28:48Mayim Bialik?

  So, it's an isolated piece of information that is occurring

• 28:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:51Mayim Bialik?

  away from the physical periphery of someone's vessel, that also is not a generic piece of information. Meaning, meaning like, oh, to say, oh, I know you were in the waiting room, wondering how surgery was going. That's very generic, that probably, God forbid, happens every time someone's in surgery. But to say, I saw, as Bruce Grayson talked about, I saw that you had a tomato stain on your tie. And you were in the cafeteria.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:17Mayim Bialik?

  And you were hiding the tie under your lab coat.

• 29:20Speaker 01

  Right. Yes.

• 29:21Mayim Bialik?

  Those are pieces, okay, so that's the kind of verifiable, right?

• 29:24Speaker 01

  And like, one of the examples that we talk about in episode one, that I find so fascinating was a woman who was blind and had a near-death experience. And she explained what she couldn't see when she came back. Her ring, the color of her hair, what was going on around her. I mean, she had a complete vivid description of it, never having had sight before.

• 29:44Mayim Bialik?

  Jeffrey Long talks about this, also he has some cases of these. Well, no, and people who had never had

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:51Mayim Bialik?

  vision, describing things that they oftentimes don't even have words for.

• 29:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:55Mayim Bialik?

  Because they've never, quote, "seen them."

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:57Mayim Bialik?

  Like, what is that? Right?

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Well, and to your point, when she came back and she said, "It's so cool, though, that you can see in front of you and behind you and up." And he's like, "No, you can't. You can only see forward."

• 30:07Mayim Bialik?

  She thought everybody can, oh my gosh.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  And she's like, "What do you mean you can only see forward? That's not true. I could see everywhere. And it was so cool." And he's like, "No, no, no. Like, that's not a thing. Like, we don't see everywhere." And then, but that, he was like, what was so fascinating about that piece of information is that that's how a lot of near-death experiencers talk about their vision.

• 30:27Mayim Bialik?

  And the only way to explain that is that there are not two eyeballs that are looking forward and have, you know, this kind of view that's roughly, I don't know how many degrees, I can't remember what it is. But the notion that seeing is being.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:42Mayim Bialik?

  That existing in whatever plane of consciousness allows you the ability to have access to all of the information, which is not only visual, it's not only auditory, there's something spiritual.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:54Mayim Bialik?

  There's something that you're seeing and experiencing that can only be described as existing in some divine way, right?

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Well, and a lot of these people will talk about being able to move at the speed of thought. Like, how cool is that?

• 31:08Mayim Bialik?

  And that answers come as quickly as you ask them. Like, time is, time is irrelevant.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. And one of the things that was fascinating is like, we looked back way back into like, ancient accounts. And it was like, what was the best way to verify a near-death experience 2,000 years ago? And it would be someone who had this near experience came back and was like, oh, you know, Frank, whoever's dead. And it's probably not a name from back then, you know, whatever. And then, you know, it would take two weeks upon months to you often get news of something like that. And then like, of course, like two weeks later, this they'd find out, yes, this person had died like four weeks before. And there's no way they would have known. So verifying like who else was in, you know, this other place.

• 31:48Mayim Bialik?

  Right. I mean, Jesus, the most famous example of someone. I mean, but, but when you think about the language that is used to describe these, that was about 2000 years ago, right?

• 31:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:59Jonathan Cohen?

  There's a lot of cross-cultural references with a ton of similarity. What did you discover in that research about ancient near-death experiences?

• 32:09Speaker 01

  A lot of religious beliefs that started all around the world had the same common themes. And then what was sort of discovered by Gregory Shushan, who's a, who had studied past life religion, started finding that there was near-death experience accounts in all these religions as well. And the reason that the accounts of what the afterlife was like, or this other place was like, were so similar, was because people were saying, well, I've gone there and come back again. And that the near-death experiences around the world were very similar in accounts, regardless of what religion, what background, what continent you were living in, that you left your body, there was usually some sort of guide there. You had some sort of life review. You were told you had to go back,

• 32:53Speaker 01

  but you didn't want to. Your, this body and this place is not the, the, the win. It's not where you want to go. And often seeing loved ones. And then, yeah, and then returning. So I thought that was kind of interesting.

• 33:07Mayim Bialik?

  It also is significant, and this is something Brian Murewescu talks about, and we spoke about with him, in The Immortality Key, you know, the secret history of the religion with no name. There were also Longstanding traditions where meditative practices, transcendental practices were engaged that let you experience death before death. And he talks about this in some of the foundations of Western civilization as we know it. But there were very similar experiences described of leaving your body. It's ego death, right? And many people experience it with psychedelics. But there's a place, right?

• 33:51Mayim Bialik?

  And it seems that there's many ways to get there.

• 33:54Jonathan Cohen?

  The notion that all these religions are either brought on or have their sense of the afterlife informed by near-death experiences, for me, is very comforting because it removes the institution of religion and shows these common threads that are linking them to some kind of truth. Because it doesn't matter the story if it doesn't resonate with people. Like, you can say, "Well, this part of religion doesn't make sense." Or, "This institution has caused an enormous amount of damage."

• 34:25Mayim Bialik?

  Or, "I don't like those rules."

• 34:26Jonathan Cohen?

  Or, "Those rules don't make sense." But things don't become this popular and strike a chord with this number of people unless there's a universality in it that has some resonance of a truth to it beyond what we can explain.

• 34:40Mayim Bialik?

  This is where I will say that also it's possible that, and this is something that came up in season one a lot, it's also possible that there's some collective experience that we are describing a certain way. I think season two, it sounds like, is really taking that next-level dive to say, "What does it look like?" to sort of clinically drill down and see what can we actually understand about a larger truth.

• 35:06Jonathan Cohen?

  Like, the mechanism or the...

• 35:07Mayim Bialik?

  Sure. The depth. I mean, yeah.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  And I think the thing that we keep stumbling across over and over again is like, "Oh, when you go way, way back, all of this was common knowledge." It's like, we've forgotten. And especially in our plant episode, which was, at first, I'm like, "What is this episode gonna be about?" Like, it feels like we need to do it, but what the heck? Like, plants coming, okay? Like, it feels tricky. And then, of course, there was a non-speaker in Connecticut who, as soon as she started spelling, was able to tell you, "This is what's going on with you. This is the herb you need. You need to have a stragalus, some Chinese herb." Like, how would the family know about that? They didn't. So she is able to diagnose someone with a very accurate herb. Diagnosis, you know, you need to take this tea or have stinging nettles and hot water or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  And it's the proper medicinal treatment for whatever is ailing the person. And it's proof of authorship, it's proof of telepathy or, because she's like, I can communicate with plants. Easily, I can hear them. And at one point, her sister was the one helping spell with her when I'd send the questions. And one of the questions was, well, how do you know what plant? And she goes, well, plants communicate, it's more like a smoke around you. It's so soft and so gentle and so there. But she's like, I don't know who lit the fire. Like, where the message is coming from, what plant? And she's like, they're so loving, they're so unconditionally caring for us. Like, you think about plants really work together, they move to give each other sun, they don't try to take the sun away like we do.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  And so she had a lot to say about plant and plant communication. But one of the questions we started asking, like, is she actually communicating with a plant? Or is a plant some sort of like receptor of some like informational field? That's like, almost like, bing, bing? And then like, I do this, I do this? But it's like reflecting this information from like a greater consciousness to us? Or is she telepathically picking up on, this young nun speaker has Cuban roots, and she said that she communicates a lot with her ancestors in Cuba and stuff? Is she knowing the knowledge? Because her abuela, we interviewed for this too, and her abuela was like, oh, yeah, like a lot of this, like, you know, we revered in my culture growing up and that type of thing.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  And it's like, or is it you're telepathically grabbing the information from someone else? Like, how is this happening? But when we went back into like some of the ancient cultures and stuff, there's so many people who talked about, no, no, no, the plant told me to do this with it. Or, I could talk to the plants and say, I know you have poison XYZ, but I need to reach in here to grab this, so please don't give me the, don't make my skin itch. And just a lot of examples of this telepathic communication between plants and humans.

• 37:51Jonathan Cohen?

  It makes sense to me.

• 37:53Mayim Bialik?

  This makes sense to you that plants speak to humans?

• 37:55Jonathan Cohen?

  They would speak in a very soft way. They wouldn't be as loud as an animal would be.

• 37:59Mayim Bialik?

  That's what makes sense to you.

• 38:01Jonathan Cohen?

  That makes total sense, although I think like, maybe poisonous plants speak differently? Maybe, could be wrong. Also, I think the question of where that information is coming from.

• 38:11Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 38:12Jonathan Cohen?

  Is it a larger consciousness system? Facilitating the healing of a human being and the plant is just a messenger or tool for the larger consciousness system. Or do plants have almost more agency or care over human nature? Because you would imagine, maybe they're angry at us for chopping them down and pulling them out of our garden.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:33Jonathan Cohen?

  But maybe not.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  No.

• 38:34Jonathan Cohen?

  Maybe they don't carry that.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  I have been asking that a lot with the communication with animals and plants. And no one seems mad at us, which I'm like, how are they not mad at us?

• 38:42Jonathan Cohen?

  I would be annoyed at us.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  All the things should be mad at us.

• 38:45Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, I have a spiritual answer to that, which is that in a place, in a place other than this one, if everything is suffused with love, meaning if that's sort of like the universal language. I mean, I'm going out on a limb here, but if that is the universal language, it's a place beyond our human understanding of what is possible in terms of tone.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:08Mayim Bialik?

  And in terms of like, it's not that there's good and bad, it just kind of is.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:13Mayim Bialik?

  Right? Like that's a, and that, for people who have NDEs that we've spoken to, that is such a relief.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 39:20Mayim Bialik?

  And that is why the decision to come back

• 39:23Jonathan Cohen?

  Is so hard.

• 39:24Mayim Bialik?

  is so hard. Because what would it, and I got chills on the right side of my skull. You know, what would it be like to be in a place where you don't have to make those judgments, right? Where people always say like, well, what about Hitler? Where is he? Right, people love to bring up these human, you know, judgment questions. You can't imagine when Betty, when Buddha Betty said that even her abusers, even the people who abused her, the understanding she had of what they had to experience to hurt, it was so, it was next level. It was the definition of forgiveness and acceptance. So that's what I would imagine, again, if we're thinking

• 40:04Jonathan Cohen?

  If you were a plant.

• 40:05Mayim Bialik?

  If I was a plant.

• 40:07Mayim Bialik?

  We can't use human terms, and I think that's what is so interesting that I'd like for you to touch on, which was a large focus of of season one. What is it, right, about people who, for example, have limited speech that can open up a portal to some kind of other understanding? And what do you think that says about what the brain allows us to experience? What did you learn about that? And what does season two offer in terms of who has this ability and why?

• 40:39Speaker 01

  It's interesting, because I finished up like one of our final interviews for season two right before this, and I was talking to a non-speaking young man who can communicate with horses and animals. And so this is going to answer your question, but it was really interesting, because his mom was like, I always knew something was going on. And I wrote a book with him at one point, and I, before the telepathy tapes came out. And she's like, I knew he was telepathic, and I was so scared to put it in there. And then, and then we heard the telepathy tapes, and I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm not alone. Like, this is so wild. And she's like, so I started testing him. And she's like, I didn't know I could test him. And she's like, and suddenly he could do numbers, or I could think of a song in my head, and he could start humming it or playing it.

• 41:17Mayim Bialik?

  So it wasn't just horses?

• 41:18Speaker 01

  No.

• 41:19Mayim Bialik?

  What was he hearing from the horses? Like, give us an example.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, okay. So with the horses.

• 41:23Mayim Bialik?

  Because like, I would think horses are like, I'm a horse.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:25Mayim Bialik?

  The horse told me he's a horse. I'd be like, that's not really proof. What is the, what is this communication like?

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Like, she would, um...

• 41:34Jonathan Cohen?

  Everything's a cartoon in your head.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:37Mayim Bialik?

  Jonathan has a very special brother.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 41:41Mayim Bialik?

  He has a traumatic brain injury, and he's special, and he sees the world in a very different way.

• 41:46Jonathan Cohen?

  He's also extremely sensitive to other people's thoughts.

• 41:48Mayim Bialik?

  Yes, and emotions.

• 41:50Jonathan Cohen?

  And emotions. So if you are thinking something very loudly around him, he will have a somatic response where he starts yawning, like, he starts to be impacted.

• 42:01Mayim Bialik?

  We took him to the aquarium, and they had that day a very large alligator.

• 42:05Jonathan Cohen?

  And you don't want to go near its face.

• 42:06Mayim Bialik?

  And the lady is standing in her little khaki outfit. All the kids are waiting to touch it, and we wait our turn, and I'm with, I'm with Daniel. And she says, his name is Patrick. And Daniel says, how do you know?

• 42:21Mayim Bialik?

  And she looked at him like, I was like, thanks, bye. But it occurred to me, like, how do you know? And so that's what I'm thinking. Okay, go ahead.

• 42:28Jonathan Cohen?

  Sorry.

• 42:28Mayim Bialik?

  The kid has a horse.

• 42:30Jonathan Cohen?

  We're very serious.

• 42:32Mayim Bialik?

  The kid has a horse. We've been waiting a long time to talk to you, so we saved up all our best jokes. Okay. The kid has a horse.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  The kid has a, yeah, and, um, and there was all sorts of examples of the horse would be sad because like a horse died. Or there'd be something going on with the horse people. I mean, the horse horses, the horse community around death or sickness. And then he would tell his mom and then the mom would find out separately that like, yes, this other horse is sick or had passed. And stuff like that. But then she said that at one point Blackjack was dying and she had to pick up her son and say like, Blackjack has cancer. But the day she picked him up to tell him that, he was really happy. And he's like, no, no, no, this is like good for Blackjack because I'll be able to still ride him on the hill and he'll be fine.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  And then now Blackjack is gone. But she was like, and she also, she's like, I had, he told me he went somewhere without his body. But he didn't start calling it the hill until after those happy tapes. Then he told me, oh, what I used to call heaven, I think is actually the hill. And I go there all the time and et cetera, et cetera. But anyway, he said, um, I can, I can ride Blackjack now. When I go out of body, I can meet Blackjack there also out of body and ride Blackjack. I never, I mean, that is wild.

• 43:46Mayim Bialik?

  Well, and you're distinguishing it from, I can think about what it would be like. That's not what this child is communicating.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  No.

• 43:53Mayim Bialik?

  Because when, when an animal dies, you can say, oh, I can be with them or that, that's not what, no. Well, and there's a place that this presumably that this child knows is not this corporal being.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:07Mayim Bialik?

  But I go somewhere and I can have experiences with this animal that I communicate with.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you asked right before that, which brought up the story and then we went a million wonderful, beautiful ways. Was like how, why or how does this happen? And so he had said to his mother,

• 44:25Speaker 01

  When she's like, "How and why did this happen? You know, how can you do this?" He's like, "I had to, to survive." Like, "I had no other way to communicate for a long time. I had no other way to engage socially, and this was my survival." And we will find a way to connect as human beings if you don't have one, which is so beautiful. And I've said this many times. I think this has nothing to do with autism. I think in the case of the non-speakers we feature in season one, it's about apraxia, this mind-bi disconnect, or not in your body. We've since heard, and we know of parents who have written in that have kids with Rett syndrome, DDX3X syndrome, Down syndrome, all sorts of things, who are like, "This is true of my child as well." And it's not just the telepathy.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  It's also connecting with spirits or whatever. So that was really interesting. And then, as we know, it has to do with Alzheimer's as well. So there's something to do with not being as tethered to your physical form. Like, there seems to be another part of us. There's us, you know, you I can squeeze right now, or whatever. And then there's the other part of us that, if we're not functioning in all ways, is also there. Right? With Alzheimer's and your death experience.

• 45:38Mayim Bialik?

  Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's about a shift of consciousness.

• 45:41Jonathan Cohen?

  There's also something about being tethered to language, reading, writing, and that part of the brain that works on that analytical level. When that's turned off or slowed down, compromised in some way, it leaves room for some other form of communication.

• 46:00Mayim Bialik?

  Do you explore, because one of the things that we talked about with Jim Tucker, there are children who claim that they have lived other lives. And there's been some really, really incredible levels of detail research. I mean, this is what Jim Tucker has spent a lot of his career, you know, talking about. Do you have any sense of what is going on when people are experiencing the consciousness of other people?

• 46:34Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't know. But like, I can think about what some non-speakers have said. And I mean, one is that like, time is, like, we have multiple lives happening all at once. There's a young man in England that was like, "Yeah, you have multiple lives that are all going on at the same time." In different places, that's hard to wrap your head around.

• 46:56Mayim Bialik?

  Physics does it. I mean, you know, if you get deep enough into theoretical and quantum physics, there's explanations for spin and electrons and things. Okay, so that.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  And so this was also really weird, and I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. Is this time travel, remote viewing through time? Is it time folding on upon itself? Is it a reincarnation thing? But so for the telepathy film that we're, we just finished our tests, like the big telepathy test across rooms and states and all that stuff. And, and that was a brand new group of non-speakers, a brand new scientist. Like, all the things were new to be like, look, okay, like, it's all new. It's, you know, peer reviewed. And that group of non-speakers in Chicago are amazing. And one of the young men, at one point, starts spelling a word. And both his mom and the teacher are in the room, and they're like, what is this word? And they Google it and nothing. They look it in the dictionary, nothing.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  And then they start doing a deeper dive and probably went into AI or whatever. And finally, like, this word was used often in the 1200s, but it's out of, it's out of, no one talks about it anymore. And he had spelled it correctly. And when they asked him about it the next day or a few days later, when they figured out what this word meant, they were like, how do you know this word? And how did you use it correctly? And he's like, oh, I found out from the Spanish magistrate in the 1200s. What? Like, how is that an answer?

• 48:21Mayim Bialik?

  The horse told me.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. But it was like, it was used correctly. And then they looked it up in terms of like the Spanish magistrate. And like, all the things were coming together. And then something happened where he just was done talking about it. And like, they couldn't like bring back that, you know, he was just, okay, I'm done with that topic. But I need to follow up with them because the question is like, how did he know that? And he said he went and talked to the Spanish magistrate.

• 48:48Mayim Bialik?

  Well, I don't mean to quote your own season one to you, but. You know, there was, I can't remember which episode it was, but there was, you know, there's evidence of knowing language, knowing things about-

• 49:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, episode seven.

• 49:06Mayim Bialik?

  In episode seven. Um, no, but, you know, like, how do we wrap our heads around that? Um, the only way to explain it again is that information, right?

• 49:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:17Mayim Bialik?

  Is out there-

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:19Mayim Bialik?

  And you can pull from it-

• 49:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:21Mayim Bialik?

  And it's not linear, right? Like, time doesn't matter, right?

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:25Mayim Bialik?

  We're like in some sort of, you know, shape that you can just dip-

• 49:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:29Mayim Bialik?

  Into all of it. I don't know.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  I want to maybe blow your mind with a story, but I can't speak of it as articulately as we do in the show because the guy, the way- Okay, so there's a savant who's in episode, I don't know, he's in season two, and he's in the savant episode where we go and look at like accidental savants, people who've been like hit on the head.

• 49:51Jonathan Cohen?

  This is where I was gonna go.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:53Mayim Bialik?

  Acquired savants.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, acquired savants. And there's some just like born savants, but it's mostly people who had like some stroke of genius. Well, he had an accident where he started seeing like math everywhere, but more than math.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  Fractals and light, and what he says is like how math and physics explain the world is they're only looking at like the screen of all the possible opportunities that could be happening now, probabilities. But he sees beyond the screen and he's like, what everyone is studying is right if you're only explaining the screen. And he's like, but I see-

• 50:21Mayim Bialik?

  Does he see the elves?

• 50:22Speaker 01

  The elves of- I need to ask him. I know the elves.

• 50:25Mayim Bialik?

  The Terrence McKenna elves? That's who's behind the screen?

• 50:29Speaker 01

  No, I don't think he sees that.

• 50:30Mayim Bialik?

  So what, he describes something that he's visually experiencing?

• 50:34Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 50:35Mayim Bialik?

  Like Beautiful Mind, like equations.

• 50:37Jonathan Cohen?

  So he sees outside of time and space.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  The thing. And one of the things he says, and this is where, please don't quote me because I'm not gonna do it right, he talks about like- Everything is a spinning fractal.

• 50:49Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  And you can bring everything down to this one equation or item in the universe, which I don't remember what it is right off the top of my head. But he said that he started doing these like language tests where if you look at the word, you know, casa or home or the same word for like abode in Russian or whatever, the like equation is the same behind everything.

• 51:12Mayim Bialik?

  So this is a mystical concept also in ancient Hebrew. There's a mystical concept that essentially the word, the concept.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:22Mayim Bialik?

  Exists.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:23Mayim Bialik?

  And then every language will place its phonemes on it.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 51:27Mayim Bialik?

  So in ancient Hebrew, a lot of the words are onomatopoeic because.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:31Mayim Bialik?

  Like the word for fire, esh, that's the sound a fire makes is shh. So that the notion is like, that's why.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  Love that.

• 51:38Mayim Bialik?

  You get it? My name, my name is water. It's like a mmm, right? So that the word is just the human articulation.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:46Mayim Bialik?

  Of the essence of it. I mean, that would be.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:49Mayim Bialik?

  Explanation.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:51Mayim Bialik?

  Season three, love to love these tapes.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:53Mayim Bialik?

  My name is.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  There you go. Well, you know, it's interesting, like, so we talk a little bit to the Lakota in, up in season two, because they, their language is exactly the same. It's like what the bird would sound like.

• 52:04Mayim Bialik?

  Correct. Well, it's like the essence of the thing. And then we try and put letters on it, right? And indigenous languages traditionally weren't writ, they didn't need to be.

• 52:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 52:14Mayim Bialik?

  Codified, right?

• 52:15Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm fascinated by people who have these injuries because what's happening, right? Like some part of their brain is disrupted, either shut down or becomes non-functional. And then they acquire some other skill that they did not have.

• 52:30Mayim Bialik?

  Before my dad had back surgery, he said to the doctor, will I be able to play piano? And the surgeon was like, yeah. And my dad's like, I couldn't play before. It was his dad joke before surgery.

• 52:41Jonathan Cohen?

  It wouldn't be appropriate, obviously, to.

• 52:45Jonathan Cohen?

  Take people in double-blind studies and shut down parts of their brain to mimic.

• 52:49Mayim Bialik?

  No, you can't injure people by hitting them on the head with a sledgehammer and seeing if they acquire abilities. IRB would have a very hard time approving that.

• 52:57Jonathan Cohen?

  That would not be my approach. My approach would be if there were some way to non-permanently shut down those parts of the brain to see if they could.

• 53:05Mayim Bialik?

  There are ways that you can essentially like freeze certain regions.

• 53:10Jonathan Cohen?

  And do people get other qualities? And like, what would I be willing to trade off to be able to get like?

• 53:15Mayim Bialik?

  I would like you to be able to have a conversation without checking your phone. I will exchange it for your dimple on your right cheek.

• 53:23Jonathan Cohen?

  But, you know, when the materialists, who we speak to sometimes, and...

• 53:28Mayim Bialik?

  We let them come on sometimes.

• 53:29Jonathan Cohen?

  It's a very challenging conversation to have with them because they are very, very, very certain that none of this is true. And they come at it often with a level of ire and annoyance that you could even contemplate stuff like this. In the horse situation where, you know, some horse used to, I think, did math.

• 53:50Mayim Bialik?

  The counting horse?

• 53:50Jonathan Cohen?

  The counting horse, and then it was proven that the horse wasn't really... Yeah, it wasn't really counting, it was just very astute of body language. That doesn't explain how a child would know that a horse not near him has died because he's in communication with another horse.

• 54:06Mayim Bialik?

  In defense of materialism, what they would say is, "We're relying on an anecdotal report." "For all we know, this child said every horse is dead." And what his mother reported, or whoever, and this is not to disparage it, but materialists would say, "You cannot build a worldview off that kind of report because," as I said, "What if the kid woke up and was like, 'Oh, the horses are dying.'" And she'd be like, "Even this one?" And you'd be like, "Yes, even that one." That's a different thing, and that's why season two is being a little more structured in the way that we're talking about things, because we can't build a worldview on just that.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  There is an arrogance, though, in this idea that like, we know all there is to know.

• 54:49Mayim Bialik?

  Yes.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  Because that's what's exciting to me. I mean, they used to think that God made a rainbow. You know what I mean? I mean... Or the earth was flat. Like, there's many things we believed and the scientists were certain of, and then it changed.

• 55:00Mayim Bialik?

  We used to believe that everything we see is all that there is.

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 55:03Mayim Bialik?

  Until we realized, oh, there's other wavelengths. And actually, we're watching, we're looking at everything that's left over when this object has absorbed all of the other wavelengths that exist.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 55:14Mayim Bialik?

  Or consciousness that most of us cannot access.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 55:19Mayim Bialik?

  And what you have done is brought to the forefront a conversation about, it may not be everyone, but if there's one person, right, that is experiencing this, that's significant for us as a human species.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:33Mayim Bialik?

  And it deserves attention, respect, and further research. That's what it means to be a scientist.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly.

• 55:42Jonathan Cohen?

  How has it been for you to be on the front lines of presenting and opening up people's minds, offering the notion that there is more? Have you felt attacked? Have you met the materialist?

• 55:56Speaker 01

  I was so, so like, blown away by all that I saw with the non-speakers and how widespread this is. And, and there's so many, there's so much evidence of it beyond, forget spelling or the easy things to try to attack. Like, it's there with or without it, right? These kids are doing stuff from the author, many states away. So I remember the first time that someone's like, oh, there was like a article in the Atlantic saying how contro- I was like, it's controversial? Like, I could not believe it. The vitriol, in which some, some, it was being received or like rebutted. And, um, yeah. And so, and then that kept happening. And then there's a lot of like hit pieces where, you know, journalists would say, oh, we want to do this or this, and take everything out of context, or take, you

• 56:38Speaker 01

  know, it just like complete, where every single person involved was like, what? What? Like, what is this? And so I wasn't prepared for that. I thought, I just didn't know that could happen to that degree. Because it felt to me, I was like, but that, they're lying, not us. And so that was weird, you know? Because I'm like, I, I'm the type of person that's like, you should never ban a book, and information is amazing, and obviously we should have the freedom of the press. And like, I believe in all those things. But it was, and it was so strange to be on the receiving end of like, wait.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  I'm the one that like they're thinking is like maybe bonkers or lying or somehow fraudulent. You know what I mean? Like it was, it was, it was. And then I just had to be like, I think it was my dad who's really a materialist was like, this is great. He's like, they won't be talking about it unless you're getting it under their skin. And he's like, it's, it's not gonna be easy if you're putting out something challenging. Keep going. Cause I was so worried about, I don't know, you always, I mean, at least me, I'm always worried about like, oh, my dad was such a, such a materialist, such a nerd. He reads so much every day. He's so scientific. He does not believe in anything like this. And so it was a big leap for me to do this, not knowing if my dad would like disown me.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  And then I think going through so many conversations and footage and going to shoots and seeing stuff I brought him, you know, he's completely changed his mind by seeing it next to me. But when some of the articles come out in the magazines and newspapers I know he loves, it was so beautiful for him to say, this is awesome.

• 58:14Mayim Bialik?

  What do you feel like season two is incorporating that season one did not have? So that maybe you can refute some of the challenges that people had and were poking at.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  Well, there's two things. I think for like non-speakers, the film will refute, I think, anything to do with spelling and all that stuff is just like, and the science. I mean, what's so great right now is the scientists have taken note, not all, but many have done their own telepathy tests now. Have done their own message passing tests between non-speakers and people in different rooms. And I think the authorship is gonna be put to bed. Telepathy tests have been now validated. There's been studies done at Stanford. University of Virginia, University of Oregon. We followed Dr. Julie Mossbridge, a former Northwestern neuroscientist. I mean, and it was like from different states, like one of the tests that Dr. Mossbridge did. And they were on Zoom because it was like pre-trials from different states was a neuroscientist calling from Oregon.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  I think she was in Virginia and the student and his communication partner were in Chicago. They had a video on the screen that Dr. Mossbridge, you know, had sent or whatever, hit a button and it went to this guy in Oregon. He was looking at a video with a word coming across it. The boy in Chicago starts describing the video.

• 59:31Mayim Bialik?

  No.

• 59:31Speaker 01

  And spelled out the word.

• 59:32Mayim Bialik?

  No.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  And that's it. That's, it's done then. That's the most impossible telepathy test to do.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  And it was done.

• 59:42Jonathan Cohen?

  It's fascinating, and recently, we spoke to a materialist who said, "Everything on telepathy in the past is absolutely debunked, there's no validity to it, and like, this is, you know, a very important professor," and I'm like, I'm like, "Where are the links? Where can it..." Because he's like, "If the research comes out, I'll look at it."

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  And also, like, when shooting the film, what was really interesting is a lot of the neuroscientists who've now been looking at this are like, "There's two different types of telepathy." We think there's close proximity telepathy, where a lot of these non-speakers seem to be able to just like dip into the person next to them, like, "bloop," like mingling of their whatevers. And then there's this like, much more common telepathy that all of us, I think, are familiar with, where there's an urgent need, an emotional something that happens where you get, you know someone's hurt, you know you need to call this person, you know XYZ. And I think that's happened throughout time, and serves us really well. And that one is almost impossible to capture in a lab setting. I mean, how can you?

• 1:00:44Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  However, and I don't know if this was the non-speaker is just trying to show off, but in Chicago, Dr. Mossbridge had been doing a bunch of tests over, I think, months or weeks. I mean, we, you know, we don't, aren't involved in the tests, we just document it. So she had to fund them and do her own stuff and do her own trials. We get to show up for one day, and that was it. She'd done tens of trials before this. On the one day we are there, the most unbelievable account of spontaneous, needed telepathy happened while all the cameras were rolling.

• 1:01:17Mayim Bialik?

  What was it?

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  I can't, I don't want to say, because it's like a huge moment in the film, but you see the telepathy happening and occurring, not just like throughout the building, but through, like, with a stranger in another place. And it's all captured. And so, you know, I feel like any of the... Doubting of the non-speakers, the teachers, the families that came from season one. I think the film will put that to rest. Season two, I mean, I hope it will put it to rest. I don't know, we did our best. I mean, I feel good about it, but there's always going to be naysayers. And but season two is a different quest, I think.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  It's less about validating the competence of non-speakers and the validity of spelling. And it's much more exploration of consciousness and materialism.

• 1:02:07Mayim Bialik?

  In my family, we have an example of this. I wouldn't have thought of it as spontaneous telepathy when my mother was pregnant with me. My mother was pregnant with me and she was being driven to a checkup appointment for me. I was born in San Diego and they had just moved from New York. And my mom's sister was driving her. She was very pregnant with me and they were driving to the doctor. And the way the story is told, my mother, all of a sudden, said to my aunt, "Turn the car around, we have to go back to mommy." You know, my grandmother. And my aunt was like, "What do you mean? We're driving to the doctor." My mother said, "You have to turn around." My mother felt paralysis on half of her face and her body. And she turned around. When they got home, my grandmother was laying on the floor and had had a stroke and had hemiparesis.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:02:50Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:02:52Mayim Bialik?

  You know, we're Hungarian on that side of my family. And I meet a lot of Hungarian people who are like, "Oh, yeah, that happens in our family." It's also like, there's a lot. Yeah, there's something about the Hungarian ladies, apparently, that were supposedly have special powers. And my mom clearly has got something. My mother believes she manifests things all the time, but that that specific experience, I can't explain that. If I'm believing what my mother reported, that would be a highly unusual thing to have happen, especially for her to experience paralysis. Now, she could be remembering it wrong, right?

• 1:03:25Jonathan Cohen?

  That's what the materialist would say.

• 1:03:26Mayim Bialik?

  She could be remembering it wrong.

• 1:03:27Jonathan Cohen?

  People's memory is faulty.

• 1:03:28Mayim Bialik?

  Correct, that the stroke could have been the next day or two weeks before. Like, we, which we don't know and you can't put it in a laboratory. So, yeah.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  Did he, did this guy comment on all of the Gonsfeld studies that have been done over the course of?

• 1:03:43Mayim Bialik?

  Jonathan felt

• 1:03:44Jonathan Cohen?

  I don't have all the studies.

• 1:03:46Mayim Bialik?

  Jonathan felt woefully unprepared.

• 1:03:47Jonathan Cohen?

  So I feel unprepared to defend the castle. We need a repository, like a document that we can go to and say, well, how about this? And what about that? And like the next phase of our conversations needs backup.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  You know, Dean Raden, he kind of goes through on his iPad. He was doing it for my benefit, but then it was so helpful. We're like, oh, we'll just actually put this clip in the movie of him going through his iPad with like all the different metadata around Gonsfeld studies across the world. And how, you know, when you look at the thousands of, maybe it's hundreds, I don't know, the many, many, many, many Gonsfeld studies that have been done across the world in different labs over a span of years. It's very statistically significant, as much so that like if it was a pharmaceutical drug in a trial, you'd be like, yes, approved. You know, but because it's dealing with something so like, woo. But the thing, what happens, I think, with the non-speakers in these tests is in the Gonsfeld thing, it's above chance by five, six, seven percent, which is still statistically relevant.

• 1:04:45Jonathan Cohen?

  I mean, I don't know if it's just me playing out my own materialist's father attitude and looking for his approval, the way that your father sounds like it was very lovely that he came on board to this journey. But I do feel like it's a calling of mine to butt up and present information that the materialists either have not accessed or are actively trying to either ignore or discredit. And say, well, because I just want there to be some consideration and acknowledgement. If, if there is real data, and again, I'm not a data expert, but I'm like, then people who analyze real data, which again, I'm not one of those people, should know about it

• 1:05:30Jonathan Cohen?

  and agree to it.

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:32Jonathan Cohen?

  And if they choose to then ignore it because of emotional reasons, or it's just too difficult to explain, purely reject it before evaluating it, that seems like a lack of communication.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think that's, the last option you gave is probably more reflective of what's happening because some of those Gonsfeld studies have been actually published in mainstream journals. Like the science is out there. It's just. If you can't explain why it's happening, which they can't. I don't think anyone can explain why it's happening or how it's possible. And that becomes a problem, right? But it is happening.

• 1:06:04Mayim Bialik?

  Most of this kind of, you know, research into trying to understand these other states of consciousness, you know, for, for those of us who are, you know, not in the non-speaking autism community, right? Or in research around those. For, for, for a lot of people, it is about a shift of consciousness that comes usually from a specific kind of meditation, right? It's like when Thomas Campbell, as a, you know, young physics student, tries transcendental meditation for the first time. And all of a sudden, he's like rocketed into the universe and doesn't know where time is or his body is. And he's like, what was that? Like, that's something that most people need to learn, to study, to drop into.

• 1:06:47Mayim Bialik?

  What's special about, I mean, I'd like to study Thomas Campbell's brain to be able to say, what was it about being given some very basic instructions about breathing? That I've heard dozens and dozens and dozens of times, and I've never gone to that place. Ever, ever, ever, you know? And I'm trying, and I'm thinking, I'm praying, I meditate, you know? So there's something about certain brains, right? That seem to have some access to a state that is different than the one that we can explain. That's the most basic scientific thing that we can say.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  It's even like lucid dreaming, I can't do that.

• 1:07:23Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 1:07:24Speaker 01

  Some people can. Seems really cool.

• 1:07:25Mayim Bialik?

  I've had, I've had some experiences with, like, the yoga nidra practice, which is you're putting your body to sleep and you're keeping your mind awake, which many people say is this kind of experience. Like, often I just fall asleep.

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:39Mayim Bialik?

  I skip right through that theta state and I just go night-night.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  We were, I was like on a shoot recently and like everyone at the table had this experience where they felt like they were being attacked by a monster at night. And I'm like, what are you guys talking about? Have you heard about this? But it's a sleep process thing. It's like a thing that is really common that happens with sleep processes, but you'll actually see what feels like a being holding you down. And everyone at the table is like, no, I'm so certain it happened. I'm like, that did not happen. And that was me to completely describe. I was like, that was impossible. What do you guys mean? Like, everyone had a

• 1:08:09Mayim Bialik?

  Even Kai didn't believe it.

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  I was like, and then I looked it up and it was like, there's a constant, there's a common sleep paralysis.

• 1:08:16Mayim Bialik?

  For hundreds of, I mean, for probably longer than hundreds of years.

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  It's called something. Oh, it was during the fluff the test. And it was like the DP, the producer and someone else. We were all sitting, having dinner afterward. And like, one of them was like, I've never told anyone this, but like, this has happened to me throughout time.

• 1:08:30Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  And I wake up and there's like, something on me, holding me down.

• 1:08:34Jonathan Cohen?

  I've heard about people who've had this.

• 1:08:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then like, that guy was like, oh my God, I thought there was just me and I thought da da. And then I was just like, wait, this is like too obscure that you both are having the same thing. There must be some rational explanation.

• 1:08:47Mayim Bialik?

  So yeah, it's called night hag, a phenomenon in which a sleeper feels the presence of a supernatural malevolent being. But also, a mare in Germanic and Slavic folklore would historically sit on your chest. A lot of people thought that this was one of the reasons that it was like an old wives tale not to let a cat in the baby's crib, that the cat would sit on the baby's chest and suffocate them. So I think it's also, you know, it's something that's

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  But anyway, that's like a thing that happens to some brains that I've never experienced. So we have these things that happen in our brains that you might not experience that other people have.

• 1:09:21Mayim Bialik?

  It's like, not everyone has to experience something. And that's what, you know, a lot of materialists will say. Well, if that's true, if remote viewing can exist at all, everyone should have it. And I'm thinking

• 1:09:31Jonathan Cohen?

  And everyone should be winning the lottery all the time.

• 1:09:33Mayim Bialik?

  Right. Like, oh, they'd be able to read the lot. I was like, no, that's actually not at all how I would imagine that it works. That's like saying if one person is a concert pianist, we can all be like, we all have different brains, abilities, like access to different things. So for me, like, that's sort of what resonated, you know, from season one. It was like, there's something that's getting either released uninhibited, right?

• 1:09:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:09:57Mayim Bialik?

  Or accessed as some sort of portal. I don't think of it as magical because I think it's something tangible. We just don't know how to describe it. We don't really know what it is, but we're trying to chip away at it and it's going to take all of us to figure it out.

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, here's what I think is really great about your show, and I think Here's what's resonating about like a lot of stuff, just as we even talk about this. Because I think for a long time it was felt really binary. Like, if you believe in this stuff, you're absolutely silly, you're not worth an academic discussion, you can be discounted. And if you do believe in it, you're woo woo, you're like out of control, like you're a hippie.

• 1:10:31Mayim Bialik?

  Delusional.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're like all the things. And, and then I think there's a

• 1:10:35Mayim Bialik?

  Did you say wearing purple?

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  No, Birkenstocks, I don't know, yeah, and purple, like all the things, yeah. And I feel like most of us probably fall in the middle. Where you really don't want to believe in something without a credible reason to believe it, you want to be grounded in reality. You want to have some sort of evidence and data to inform your facts and worldview. But you're also open to that there's maybe more than what we see. And you don't want just to be, I'm one or the other. I want to create a worldview that makes sense and is meaningful, based on data and science and observation and anecdotal evidence.

• 1:11:09Jonathan Cohen?

  Well, you don't want to be fooled in either direction.

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:11:12Jonathan Cohen?

  Right? Like, you don't want to be so out there that like, anything is possible and I walk in and it's the spirits of the house that are controlling me.

• 1:11:19Mayim Bialik?

  You know what, we know a lot of people like that, and those are the kind of people that, when I spoke to them about the telepathy tapes, they felt like, and I'm just going to communicate this to you as a personal thank you, they felt like it was a giant hug from the universe. Because many people felt like I always knew. I always knew that I could feel something different. I always knew I could be in touch with other things. I always knew there was more than what they told me to believe. And for many people, that's what season one of the telepathy tapes did. It was like, I don't need anything more.

• 1:11:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:56Mayim Bialik?

  I feel seen. And like, if seeing people is the first step to opening that door, that's incredibly important, you know?

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:12:06Mayim Bialik?

  Thank you.

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  Thank you. It's so hard to believe someone that is like, has something to gain by making sure these things are real, right? Like a medium who's making money off it, or a psychic or whatever, and, and, or a healer that sells a lot of books and sells out amphitheaters. I think it's, there's, it's very easy to be like, hmm.

• 1:12:26Jonathan Cohen?

  What's the motivation?

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:12:27Mayim Bialik?

  Or if you have this wisdom, be like the Buddha. Sit under the tree and I will come get the wisdom.

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 1:12:33Jonathan Cohen?

  And also not to be a downer, but sometimes there are people who like when you say, oh, if you believe this, then you're also into other things. Like sometimes they're into some practices that make it hard to function in everyday society.

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I think for the non-speaking individuals who were profiled in season one, I mean, what at least their lives as they were when we were filming them and talking to them, they often weren't going to school, you couldn't up yourself in the social ladder, you weren't going to make money, you couldn't profit off of anything, you couldn't even live outside of your own home. I mean, there's nothing to gain and it takes so freaking long to spell a sentence, like minutes and often exhausted at the end. So it's like, you're not going to sit there and be like, I'm going to buffoon like everyone here and you know.

• 1:13:20Jonathan Cohen?

  But in the same regard that people don't want to be fooled in one direction, I also don't want to be fooled that material reality is all that there is.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:13:29Jonathan Cohen?

  And when we consider what we've learned about the mind-body connection, that we can change our pain tolerance, that you can MRI people with back pain and people without back pain and sometimes like more than statistically significant, you can't tell from the images alone who has that pain or the placebo effect experiments where people had fake knee surgeries and had the same outcome as real knee surgeries.

• 1:13:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. I like that one.

• 1:13:58Jonathan Cohen?

  I mean, like it starts to really change how we apply medicine.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:14:05Jonathan Cohen?

  Now there's a very scary slippery slope, which the materialists will say, well, and this was said to us recently, well, if you believe in God, you won't take medicine. So therefore the belief in God is dangerous.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:14:16Jonathan Cohen?

  Exactly. If you feel more connected to something and less alone and less despair and that you're a part of something greater than yourself, which can be described as feeling a sense of God and connection to that source, a universal consciousness. You know that your immune system works better. You recover from surgery better. You may have less aches and pains. You may feel stronger, more hopeful, and your body will respond accordingly. So like, I don't want one side or the other to dominate the conversation.

• 1:14:43Mayim Bialik?

  Just to clarify, I think that what this counterpoint was, was many people would say, "God told me not to take medicine." And so you could argue that simply saying you have a religious faith, that in and of itself doesn't prove anything. It doesn't justify anything because people kill in the name of God. People do horrible things in the name of God. They, you know, I don't need to list all the things. Anyway, yeah.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  It's like the act of faith is more important than the fact of faith, right? Like, we know that believing in something, even if it's your own healing ability, is really good. And that is something materialists will jump on. Is like, oh, well, then why does believing have to be the thing? Oh, I can only see blah, blah, blah. I believe in it. I don't know, but we know the placebo effect works. So believing matters.

• 1:15:35Mayim Bialik?

  And should be actually utilized much more. I think it would save a lot of people's livers and immune systems if we use the placebo instead of a lot of the medications that we're told to take that in many cases are not helpful.

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:46Mayim Bialik?

  Sorry.

• 1:15:47Speaker 01

  But it's an interesting thought exercise because like, even when you're talking about some of the stuff which is pretty, you know, immaterial and unexplained, there is always this deep reverence, I think, from a lot of people. They're like, but how do we reach the materialist? Or how do you reach that person out there? And there is part of me that's just like, that you don't have to reach everyone.

• 1:16:07Mayim Bialik?

  I would like you to.

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, we're trying.

• 1:16:09Mayim Bialik?

  Meaning, I really want that.

• 1:16:10Speaker 01

  We're trying.

• 1:16:10Mayim Bialik?

  I really want that.

• 1:16:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. But like, you don't, it's not like the mark of whether or not something's true, I think. It is like, can you change these minds? Can you change some minds? Can you change a lot of minds?

• 1:16:21Mayim Bialik?

  And I think that's part of the... The patronizing aspect of this argument is it becomes this parent you can never please.

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:29Mayim Bialik?

  Right?

• 1:16:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:16:30Mayim Bialik?

  And that everything we do doesn't need to be to please our parent.

• 1:16:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:16:33Mayim Bialik?

  It needs to be to find what work is most meaningful for us. And for you, it's going down this path.

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:39Mayim Bialik?

  And maybe, you know, in that structure, you know, you'll please your parent.

• 1:16:45Speaker 01

  I'm so like, like struck by that analogy, just because it was like my real life, like that my dad was that parent.

• 1:16:51Mayim Bialik?

  And I wasn't even thinking

• 1:16:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:53Mayim Bialik?

  Of your dad.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:55Mayim Bialik?

  And also in the patriarchal structure that we live in. And also God as father, I mean, like all these, all the imagery that we're told is that.

• 1:17:02Jonathan Cohen?

  Also, do you have time to talk to my dad?

• 1:17:05Speaker 01

  Totally. He should, you know what we should do?

• 1:17:07Mayim Bialik?

  Get all the dads.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  Get all the dads.

• 1:17:09Jonathan Cohen?

  We should start a dad listening community.

• 1:17:11Speaker 01

  That would be interesting. Oh, my gosh, that would be so sweet.

• 1:17:14Jonathan Cohen?

  And they could have like a support group from recovering materialists.

• 1:17:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:19Jonathan Cohen?

  I would like to ask you about remote viewing. Does season two incorporate remote viewing? Did that come up in the research? Because we've spoken to Julia about it. We've spoken to other people about, Thomas Campbell, we've spoken to about it and others. And it is, you know, a fascinating example of if I'm not tethered to my physical form, if my consciousness is able to move freely around this non-material world, if the people who have had near-death experiences have the ability to have 3D vision, then what else is possible?

• 1:17:54Speaker 01

  I think we're going to do a whole season of remote viewing. Because it feels like one of the most concrete psy abilities that many people can learn and experience. We know governments have poured a lot of money into it. There's a wonderful book by Annie Jacobson called The Phenomenon. And it's not about UFOs, it's about the CIA's, it's like a spy program.

• 1:18:16Mayim Bialik?

  We spoke to Angela Ford, who could frequently leave her body as a child, but never thought of it as a special ability, and then was trained in remote viewing and worked for the government and solved some very specific, very specific crimes with her skills.

• 1:18:32Speaker 01

  I think that is just more validation that. Well, okay, it's interesting, because we actually have one story in season two about someone who takes psychedelics and is able to find, like, missing children through remote viewing.

• 1:18:48Mayim Bialik?

  Literally an episode of Black Mirror.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:18:50Mayim Bialik?

  What?

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:51Mayim Bialik?

  They need to be under the influence?

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  Well, in this case, well, this was more of like an elder in, you know, a South American tribe.

• 1:19:00Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 1:19:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:02Mayim Bialik?

  That's a tool that was used.

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, to find some children who are missing, like, in the jungle. That governments couldn't find, but they finally were like, let's tap in, you know, the elder. And I think it was ayahuasca, you know, and it was a very, you know, sacred thing. It's not like, hey, a party we're at, Burning Man. It was like, okay, let's go find, find these kids, and they did. So if you can turn that stuff on through psychedelics.

• 1:19:31Mayim Bialik?

  And we know what's going on in the brain, to some extent, with psychedelics. I mean, we have some indications, yeah.

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  I mean, I just feel like there's such, if non-speakers are clearly saying they can do it, and I think it happens quite often, you know exactly where mom is when this was happening, or...

• 1:19:46Mayim Bialik?

  You have to look at the overlap, right?

• 1:19:48Speaker 01

  Right, yeah.

• 1:19:48Mayim Bialik?

  You should look at the overlap.

• 1:19:49Speaker 01

  Right, it happens with psychedelics, it happens with these psychic spies, we know governments spend a lot of money, meditation, Tom Campbell leaving his body and doing, I mean, it happens from so many different things. So, that to me is like, that's a slam dunk, like, how on earth can you describe so many different sects of people having the ability to see something somewhere very far away, something very far away?

• 1:20:12Jonathan Cohen?

  So, there's an example of someone who's using it to find children. We spoke to Angela.

• 1:20:17Mayim Bialik?

  She's like, would find a criminal, the town that he was in.

• 1:20:20Jonathan Cohen?

  Do you have a little bit of sort of an explanation for people, if you're like ramping them into this idea, like, again, the materialist, which has really stuck with me, this conversation?

• 1:20:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:29Jonathan Cohen?

  We brought it up.

• 1:20:30Speaker 01

  It made us cry a little bit.

• 1:20:30Jonathan Cohen?

  And he was like, well, the government has spent money on a lot of stupid things, that doesn't mean that it's true. And I'm like, this is, we spoke to someone who like...

• 1:20:39Mayim Bialik?

  Also, generally speaking, I don't like what the government does a lot of the time.

• 1:20:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:42Mayim Bialik?

  So I'm like, I can't pick and choose here.

• 1:20:44Jonathan Cohen?

  But in my mind, I was like, oh, the CIA is spending their time, and we spoke to someone who was like, using this skill to solve crime, I thought maybe that would validate it a little bit for them, and it... Didn't, but like, I feel like maybe understanding the history and the origins a little bit more.

• 1:21:00Speaker 01

  When maybe one of the non-speakers and their parents are here for like, the film or something, you just see it, just experience it, bring your dad.

• 1:21:08Mayim Bialik?

  Oh.

• 1:21:09Speaker 01

  And then you'll just see the telepathy right here. We can do it. We put the petition down, think of a word, write it down.

• 1:21:13Mayim Bialik?

  Oh my gosh, I would love that.

• 1:21:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:15Mayim Bialik?

  I would love that.

• 1:21:16Jonathan Cohen?

  Experiencing everything you have in creating this content, speaking to the scientists, have you opened up any of your own telepathic or intuitive abilities?

• 1:21:30Speaker 01

  It's so not my focus right now, and I feel like that it needs to be that way. You know what I mean? Like, like I have to stay fully tethered in the material world and want to be so that,

• 1:21:43Speaker 01

  I can, I don't know, I feel, I feel like that will be a fun thing to do in 10 years, like when I'm more retired.

• 1:21:50Mayim Bialik?

  But you do open up a bit about some of your personal life in the, you know, kind of between seasons one and two.

• 1:21:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:58Mayim Bialik?

  So I think that's also an important part of the story.

• 1:22:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:03Mayim Bialik?

  That you are also open to saying, if we broaden the lens

• 1:22:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:08Mayim Bialik?

  of what we believe is possible.

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:10Mayim Bialik?

  It doesn't have to be something that we can't question personally.

• 1:22:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:22:15Mayim Bialik?

  Right?

• 1:22:15Speaker 01

  And I'm questioning all of it personally. The thing that I'm like, I think it could be one choice right now to be like, because I think if you really want to get good at some of the stuff, you have to spend a lot of time doing it. And, um, and I think that I'm more open to things, so things are that I might have discounted before are happening.

• 1:22:33Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, I'm gonna ask you something I have to ask you.

• 1:22:35Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 1:22:36Mayim Bialik?

  Have you done psychedelics?

• 1:22:37Speaker 01

  Um, I have done, yeah, mushrooms.

• 1:22:40Mayim Bialik?

  Okay.

• 1:22:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:42Mayim Bialik?

  Have you had any experience with altered consciousness that you can connect to the kinds of altered consciousness you got to study in the telepathy tapes?

• 1:22:51Speaker 01

  I did like this guided mushroom thing with this shaman who was really good and has done this many, many times and was like supposed to really, you know, and I went with some, um, Some friends who are like the most G rated grownups, they work at Disney, you know, and like, you know, like, and we did this thing together and I, everyone had this amazing experience. Oh, no. And I was being told by the mushrooms the whole time I was not allowed to experience it. Wow. And I was doing it like for research. It did feel like, cause at this point, like I was headlong in the plant episode, I'm like, wait, what is going on? Like, I must be experiencing something.

• 1:23:31Mayim Bialik?

  At least they're talking to you.

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, cause I was like, I'm full on feeling like I'm having a conversation with the mushrooms. So I felt like something is obviously altered, cause I felt that. But then I beg, why can't I experience anything? And then the mushrooms would tell me, because if you, we can't even answer that, cause if we answered it, you'd be experiencing it. And I'm like, what? We're doing a huge episode on energy healing in the next season. And it was some of the best energy healers ever, I think. And, and I'm sure we're missing a ton, but some great ones. There's one energy. This is pretty good. Really? Okay. So this one energy healer I met, she's like, it's stronger for me if I could do it remotely. And I was like, really? And she goes, yeah, in fact, that's the only time I can remote view. I will go to heal someone and I can tell them what the room looks like, where they're

• 1:24:17Speaker 01

  sitting, what they're wearing, all the things about what it is, but I can only do it when I'm entering their space to heal them. And she's like, and I have people come into my office all the time, but it's not as like succinct and perfect as when they're far away. I'm like, ah, cause I know I have this big problem going on my left knee. So I was like, can you energy heal me? And she's like, yes, it works better outside. Go find your, go be outside. After 40 minutes, she's like, I can't find you. Like, what do you mean you can't find me? She's like, it's like there's a bubble around you or block. And I'm like, what? I'm like, well, this sucks. And so I was like, we like go inside and I'm like, can you find me now?

• 1:24:54Mayim Bialik?

  How about now?

• 1:24:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then all of a sudden she starts saying, okay, I am getting something. And she starts rattling all this stuff and I'm like, none of this is true to me. My wife walks in the room, this is so weird. And she's been having this like penetrating pain in her collarbone that's like awful. And she tore her ACL or something in her knee like five years ago. But the energy healer starts talking about like this penetrating thing in the collarbone and how bad it is and how I have to get it looked at and how there's something in my, in the knee. She wasn't reading me. She was reading Kaisa. And I was like, what? So it's like, and then I'm like, did, and I don't know. I mean, I was like, is this, did the non-speakers put some bubble around me or something? I don't know what's, what do you say? Why do you know? What you, what do you know?

• 1:25:37Mayim Bialik?

  Well, I mean, I, I don't know. I think, I mean, do you want me to do this?

• 1:25:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want to know.

• 1:25:42Mayim Bialik?

  So I think there's, I think there's a couple of things going on. And what I think is that the, the energy around the work that you have done is enormous. It's enormous. And you became famous and infamous, right? In a way that I don't think anyone could have guessed, predicted, you know, or projected. And the reason that it is so important for you to stay grounded is what many scientists in this arena have discovered, which is that if you dip into belief,

• 1:26:24Mayim Bialik?

  it can adulterate the research you're doing. And even though, as you said, you're documenting others' research, there has to be a part of you that knows how important it is to preserve the sanctity of objectivity. So while I commend you for trying to go there as an experiment, yeah, I believe that there's a larger wisdom for your path that in some way is not going to allow you to let go that way because it will give you a completely different lens that is not as objective.

• 1:27:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:03Mayim Bialik?

  So it's not your path now.

• 1:27:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:27:05Mayim Bialik?

  And one day it may be.

• 1:27:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:07Mayim Bialik?

  But right now, I think that's really powerful. You know, you may have had the most powerful experience of all, even though it didn't feel like what you thought it would be, which I would say is the description of everyone's life.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:19Mayim Bialik?

  Right?

• 1:27:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Ah, such, because I've like known that inherently, like I'm not allowed to, like when I first started answering, I'm like, not allowed to, I can't.

• 1:27:26Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:26Speaker 01

  And I don't know why, but you just put words to it.

• 1:27:28Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:29Speaker 01

  But it was really funny, like coming out of the tent in Topanga Canyon, when all my friends are like, I think the trees are breathing and the wolves. And I'm like,

• 1:27:39Speaker 01

  You're just kidding me right now.

• 1:27:40Jonathan Cohen?

  You're like, "The mushrooms won't talk to me."

• 1:27:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. I went to bed. I was like, "All right, well, thank you."

• 1:27:45Mayim Bialik?

  That's amazing. That's an amazing story.

• 1:27:47Jonathan Cohen?

  You're Hungarian roots coming out also right now.

• 1:27:49Speaker 01

  No, that was like such a beautiful explanation.

• 1:27:52Mayim Bialik?

  Well, to me, there's not, but to me, it's not even that there's anything magical about it unless,

• 1:27:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:27:58Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, unless you believe that the human experience is magical, which I think it is. It's divine in its own wisdom.

• 1:28:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:28:04Mayim Bialik?

  So it's not like I believe that there's some like overlord running a simulation who's like, "I'm gonna decide to be..."

• 1:28:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:28:10Mayim Bialik?

  But what you are putting out

• 1:28:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:28:13Mayim Bialik?

  is it permeates you, you know?

• 1:28:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's so interesting.

• 1:28:17Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, or it would just take a much higher dose, literally, to allow you to leave without any

• 1:28:23Speaker 01

  Well, the guy, the shaman, when he came by and he's like, I'm like, "It's not working." And he's like, "But I gave you a hero's dose." Like, he's like, "There are so many..." This is like-

• 1:28:34Mayim Bialik?

  Well, there are people also who don't, who don't metabolize, right? The same way that Paul Stamets talked about this with us.

• 1:28:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. But I, like, I've done microdoses before where I'm like, "This is great." You know, it just feels like-

• 1:28:46Jonathan Cohen?

  I agree with everything Mayim said, and also,

• 1:28:50Jonathan Cohen?

  when you do something like that, your energy field gets dispersed. It's not the same as when you go there through a meditation practice, which is a much more integrated experience. And so especially being out there, ruffling some people's feathers and getting a lot of energy at you, the likelihood is for your own safety, it's better to stay contained and grounded than to open yourself up at all.

• 1:29:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:15Mayim Bialik?

  And you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

• 1:29:16Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:29:17Mayim Bialik?

  Like now, you know, your, you know, your, your journey is now this larger collective journey, and it's very special, and we're so, so honored that we get to, um, to talk to you and be, you know, a small part of your journey. And we have so many, so many friends of our podcast who, um, you know, have wanted us to connect, and we're just so grateful. So where can people tune in to season two?

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  All right, so season two will start October 15th, wherever you listen to your podcasts, Spotify, Apple, iHeart, YouTube.

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  Amazon, wherever it is, Art 19, we're there. And the film will be out early next year.

• 1:29:56Mayim Bialik?

  Amazing, amazing. Thank you so much for being here. I got nothing else to say. From our breakdown to the one we hope we never have, we'll see you next time.