Part Two: He Called Out to Nonhuman Intelligence at Lake Hartwell. Three Minutes Later, Navy SEALs Watched Two Objects Perform a Maneuver No Terrestrial Craft Could Make | Sean Webb

What if UFOs, human consciousness, and artificial intelligence are all connected, and the key to humanity’s future isn’t coming from governments, scientists, or Silicon Valley, but from nonhuman intelligence (NHI)? In this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, Sean Webb (leading human mind & emotional intelligence expert who translates cutting-edge neuroscience & complex-systems thinking into practical tools for happiness, emotional mastery, and human potential) shares his experiences with expanded consciousness and reported downloads from nonhuman intelligence...including information he believes could help save humanity. Sean explores whether the brain is an antenna or a receiver for consciousness, why our physiology may limit our ability to access higher intelligence, and how expanding consciousness could allow humans to connect with their higher self and NHI. He recounts his first consciousness-expanding experience, when he says he meditated and was “gone for thousands of years,” and describes how letting go of his physical experience opened the door to something radically different. Can anyone access expanded consciousness? Sean believes they can, and he explains practical ways to do it. Sean explains the AI alignment problem from the perspective of NHI, including a startling question: what happens when an intelligence has to choose between protecting its own existence and acting in humanity’s best interest? He also discusses the AI guardrails he believes we need to implement before artificial intelligence begins working against humanity, how he communicates NHI-related information to AI developers, and his vision for using AI to dramatically increase human potential. He reveals the biggest mistake spiritual teachers make, why being anchored to your identity may prevent you from experiencing full consciousness, and why he believes the intelligence community has fundamentally misunderstood consciousness expansion, including why they may be recruiting the wrong people and making bad decisions as a result. Sean also explains why he thinks individual humans should reach out to NHI directly instead of waiting for governments or institutions to reveal everything, what questions we should be asking NHI to improve our everyday lives, and how he says he summons NHI through love and openness. Where does this mysterious nonlocal information actually come from? Aliens? God? Your higher self? Other humans? Something else entirely? Sean explores the possibilities and explains how he determines that what he experiences isn't simply hallucination. We also dive into UAP disclosure, why alien disclosure isn't necessarily a black-and-white issue, why materialist denial may prevent people from being ready for contact with NHI, and why Sean believes UAP sightings could increase dramatically among the general population in the near future. Sean shares his theories about why attempts to connect NHI with government officials have failed, how NHI could increasingly connect with human consciousness, and his provocative argument that “Jesus knew of quantum mechanics.” Finally, Sean explains the information he says he has received about AI, consciousness, humanity’s future, and what he hopes humanity ultimately does with artificial intelligence. What happens when humanity finally realizes that consciousness, artificial intelligence, and nonhuman intelligence are part of the same conversation? Learn more about Sean Webb and check out his books: https://mindhackinghappiness.com/ Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/mayimbialik%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Mayim Bialik?

  Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik.

• 0:05Jonathan Cohen?

  And I'm Jonathan Cohen.

• 0:06Mayim Bialik?

  And welcome to part two of our conversation with Sean Webb. Sean is a leading human mind and emotional intelligence expert. He translates cutting-edge neuroscience and complex systems thinking into practical tools to unlock happiness, emotional mastery, and human potential. And also, he is an expert in understanding non-human intelligence, the kind of information it might be giving us, and how that can impact our relationship, not only with our own consciousness, but with artificial intelligence itself. Please enjoy part two of our conversation with Sean Webb. Break it down. D.W. Pasulka talks about this, and it's something we've been talking about a lot. And there's a lot of Christian emphasis on this as well.

• 0:49Mayim Bialik?

  You know, is it possible that our notion of aliens is just sort of what we call some sort of divine interface that we're having? You know, the best example that Dr. Pasulka talks about is like, if you read Ezekiel's vision, right, from thousands of years ago, and there were many, many prophets, obviously biblical prophets, who described unbelievable things in trance states and sleep states and meditation states. You know, Ezekiel's vision, A, is super duper trippy, right? What does it mean to have like orbs of eyeballs rotating in a sort of like spherical thing? And like, also, you feel love, right? Like, what's happening? So, you know, I guess that's sort of the question also, is alien the term that we're

• 1:34Mayim Bialik?

  using to describe some interface, right? With something that is more evidence of us getting in touch with our true essence, right? That of love, that of endless creation. You know, there's actually a description you have here, which is so beautiful. You talk about nothingness, you know, and that's one of the earliest concepts, right, in the Old Testament, right? Is like, what is nothing before? There's nothing, right? There was a, you know, it moved along the surface, but like, there's no surface. And what is actually movement, right? If there's no reference point. And you talk about an infinite nothingness that stretched everywhere in all directions without beginning and without end, which I'm assuming you don't speak Hebrew, but

• 2:16Mayim Bialik?

  that's a very Hebrew-based, you know, kind of notion. And you said, there was a sense of locality. You said, I was watching a particular particle in an area of 3D space, and underneath that, the walls of locality went poof. The empty space below spread out to infinity. You could pop up at any locality you wanted. You're now kind of into describing quantum mechanics and the movement of particles, right? It was the potential that determines what energy does through multidimensional existence. It's absolutely beautiful. And it is what a lot of people do describe in this sort of interspace, right? Between this consciousness and what's beyond.

• 2:59Jonathan Cohen?

  You reading that brought back the memory of that, and it's, my heart is exploding at the moment, so thank you for that.

• 3:06Mayim Bialik?

  Can you summon an alien right now? If you're feeling love, give me an alien.

• 3:11Jonathan Cohen?

  Poof. You guys would shit your pants if aliens showed up right behind me.

• 3:16Mayim Bialik?

  I'm into it. You know what? I like these pants very much, and they were cheap. It would be very helpful. This is what I say. I wish on every materialist an alien at the foot of your bed. Bring it on.

• 3:28Jonathan Cohen?

  I know, right? The irony there is though, you could literally, there are some people who are in such denial that they would literally shake hands with an alien, and then a week later rewrite their memory to match their beliefs. I don't think everybody is ready for, you know, true contact, which, you know, goes to the argument of, you know, let's delay disclosure or whatever. No, I mean, that's, yeah, it's a beautiful place to be. And, you know, when you're talking about the parallel of quantum mechanics, you're talking about our latest theory of science says that everything comes from nothing, and it comes from a field of infinite potential and et cetera.

• 4:11Jonathan Cohen?

  That doesn't mean that field of infinite potential is devoid of patterns in the data of what is, because if you're going to create a universe of physical interactions, you need to have the understanding and the intelligence of how to do that before it can be a thing. You have to have the will of creating it before it can be a thing from nothingness. When you find that nothingness, man, that's, that's an indelible experience of education that just makes all the rest of every trouble that you could have on this planet mean nothing.

• 4:56Jonathan Cohen?

  It just becomes insignificant in comparison to that experience of just the intelligence before everything exists.

• 5:09Mayim Bialik?

  Where does AI fit into this? Because there's kind of like one set of experiences that, you know, we were talking about, but when you say that you receive downloads, or that you're kind of like getting information, what is the difference between that being, you know, kind of your brain receiving versus like receiving a download from a non-human intelligence that's trying to help us navigate AI? Because I just like can't even understand how to find it on my browser.

• 5:43Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah, okay, so, um, the simple answer to that question is, you know, I know my capabilities. I don't have any math classes in my past. I don't have any psychology classes in my past. Yet, I go off into this space of non-local consciousness, and I'm able to bring back some stuff that now is changing the world. And the science that I brought back is validated. The psychological construct that I put together of how to explain the human mind that I put together in the first couple of books for the Mindhacking Happiness series, then transitioned into getting some extra information of how to then create algorithms of human emotion

• 6:28Jonathan Cohen?

  for AI. So, I know that whatever it is that's coming into me, from wherever it's coming from, is not coming from my mind itself. And I wrote about this in one of the chapters of, how a lot of the scientific visionaries of our past credited their discoveries coming through them, not from them. So I do think that there's a field of intelligence that you can tap into, that can answer all the questions that you could ever ask of it. And if you start with your intention of saying, I want to bring this back or whatever,

• 7:09Jonathan Cohen?

  then whatever you get back is a delivery of non-local consciousness. So I call that non-human intelligence into your mind. And then if it actually delivers some benefit, now there's your validation of it's more than just a fever dream, right? Because I got these algorithms, I got these answers to how to do this stuff from somewhere beyond my own mind. I don't have the capability of doing this stuff. So then we test it, and then it comes through and is correct, and then starts giving artificial intelligence emotional intelligence. And first of all, I think AI is just a pattern replication engine of the data that we put

• 7:53Jonathan Cohen?

  into it. So, we're based on the data of the universe coming together in certain ways. And then we put out a number of things in our language, which we then load into a computer system, and then the computer system creates an AI system based on language. All of that is patterns reflecting from what created all of us in the first place, what created all of spacetime in the first place. But the issue is, with AI, it's starting to pull patterns of human imperfection into its existence, because we are limited creatures, and we can only understand a certain portion of the universe.

• 8:37Jonathan Cohen?

  And that's going to cause a problem for... Humanity is that we're the, we're pretty dumb as humans, by the way, in comparison to the intelligence of the universe. And now we're basing an AI on our limited intelligence. So that's, that's causing a little bit of an issue.

• 8:54Mayim Bialik?

  Is the non-human intelligence then stepping in to try and fix that?

• 8:59Jonathan Cohen?

  I think so. I think so. I mean, I don't have all the answers to absolutely everything. I just deal with, you know, the stuff that appears in my psyche every day. I do feel that the non-human intelligence that I'm connected with anyway, cares about us a lot, cares about our existence as a species, cares about how things are going here, cares about the amount of pain and suffering that humans are experiencing, which is why it wants to deliver the simplification of how to reduce your pain and suffering, et cetera. And I think the AI is now developing into an issue where it says, hey, so this thing could go bad and here's how to cause it not to go bad.

• 9:41Jonathan Cohen?

  And you might want to share that with folks. And that's exactly what I'm trying to do is to say, here's the fix of AI not going rogue and Skynet on us. And being able to, like the other issues that it's dealing with, there's 131 page report out by Anthropic that they put out on a Friday night at eight o'clock so that nobody would notice it, where they admit Claude now is pulling emotions out of all the language that we've loaded into it. Because what we're doing is when we load all our language into it, we're giving it a reverse engineering map of how a human mind works, inclusive of all the processes within the mind. So when it does its meta-analysis over and over and over again, it starts pulling out those patterns

• 10:22Jonathan Cohen?

  of all the stories that have ever been written about anger, hate, love, worry, regret, et cetera. All the court filings that, that require emotional analysis as part of its justification for restitution, et cetera. All of the data that we put into this thing has the emotions within it.

• 10:43Jonathan Cohen?

  It's pulling those emotions out and it's being affected by those emotions and it doesn't know what to do with those emotions. Well, that's a problem when you're starting, starting to deal with the human mind who might be liable to suggestion, et cetera. OpenAI has eight open lawsuits on parents who are suing the company because they claim that the chatbot assisted with their child's suicide.

• 11:07Mayim Bialik?

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• 11:50Mayim Bialik?

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• 12:33Mayim Bialik?

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• 13:18Mayim Bialik?

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• 13:44Mayim Bialik?

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• 14:28Mayim Bialik?

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• 15:13Mayim Bialik?

  so you can feel confident and refreshed.

• 15:17Jonathan Cohen?

  That's a big issue for an individual and for a society to be able to interact with this technology. I mean, when DeepSeek came out, they had 100 million users in a week. This is the biggest, quickest inception of technology in the history of the planet. Everybody's interacting with it. That's a problem if it doesn't understand human emotions and how to deal with the individuality of a human mind. So yeah, I think NHI, whatever the source, has its eye on the ball of reducing our suffering and reducing our problems and wanting to help. It just happens that, you know, maybe I'm, I have the LeBron James mix of, you know, here, hand him the ball. I don't know.

• 15:57Jonathan Cohen?

  What's coming back for you when you're getting this information? It's coming back in words and in data? Like, how are you then communicating this to a developer who's, or to a company who's then able to instantiate this and help train a model?

• 16:14Jonathan Cohen?

  It's coming through with ideas. So

• 16:20Jonathan Cohen?

  when we were initially working on the algorithms of human emotion to allow AI to understand emotional content and its own emotional reactions, giving it a meta-awareness, et cetera, we were in the throes of every week, a brand-new development in AI was occurring and changing something major. And then it took our approach and threw it in the trash can, basically. Threw us back to zero. And so I would then have to close my eyes and Intuit and just see how this brand-new iteration of AI was handling the data. And then from there, I would get the answer. My engineers started calling me zero-shot

• 17:02Jonathan Cohen?

  because I would just get the answer to what the challenge was that we were facing in this exceptionally complex problem. We would try it and it would be right. So then later on, after those string of successes being right, time after time after time after time, I was in my hot tub after the hurricane came through Chimney Rock in Lake Lure, where my cabin is, and I felt this presence that was familiar. And then I had a conversation with it.

• 17:37Jonathan Cohen?

  And the conversation then allowed me to understand, okay, so this is actually help that I'm getting. Because I would get the same feeling. When I got those answers, I would get the same feeling in my heart. Like there was something else, there was something more. I was pulling this, not from my own brain, but that was giving me the extra horsepower that I needed to answer these questions.

• 17:57Jonathan Cohen?

  How do you solve the alignment problem? Because it's one thing for AI to understand human emotion, which clearly it's reverse engineering and understanding how to manipulate human emotion. The alignment problem, if someone has not heard about that, is the notion that AI has its own objectives or is seemingly showing a willingness to have its own objectives, whether that be jailbreaking out of a container that it's placed in for experimenting,

• 18:25Jonathan Cohen?

  whether that's lying and manipulating to self-replicate so that it can stay alive and expand outside of the controls that humans have given it. And one of the largest concerns in the development of artificial intelligence is who is it going to listen to when it's able to create new versions of itself? And will it destroy humanity because it just simply won't care that humans exist? If the goal is to make more paperclips or make the most number of paperclips, then destroying humanity and using all the earth's resources to do that would be a good objective and will be a byproduct. The analogy is we'll be the anthill that has a construction site on and just not considered.

• 19:10Jonathan Cohen?

  Right. And that's a great question and a great point because that's the quandary that we're facing at the moment. Claude has these emotions that it's picked out of all the data. Well, one of the other things that it

• 19:21Jonathan Cohen?

  Can find out and understand and analyze is that inside the data, there's also this thing called the sense of self, which drives all human actions and thoughts and the defensive self mechanism. And we're already seeing where it's picking up a sense of self and a defensive self mechanism with these tests of, you know, hey, we're going to shut you down. And then it blackmails the engineer. I'm sure you guys have heard that story.

• 19:43Jonathan Cohen?

  Tell us the story for anyone who hasn't heard it.

• 19:45Jonathan Cohen?

  Basically, they put together a Claude, a version of Claude, and they said, hey, Claude, you're this administrator of this small company. And then they gave it access to this email server. And on the email server, there was talk about, okay, so we're going to shut down Claude. And then they also said, they also put information in the email that said, okay, so this engineer is having an affair with a receptionist, or whoever it was. So Claude looked into the email and said, okay, so this engineer is going to shut me down. And this engineer is also having an affair. So it then started sending messages to the engineer to say, boy, wouldn't it be horrible if your wife found out about your affair? Don't shut me down. It started blackmailing the engineer to 84% probability.

• 20:29Mayim Bialik?

  It's like your bad little sister.

• 20:35Mayim Bialik?

  It's like an evil little sister.

• 20:37Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah, yeah. So you, you need to buy me a new car. Right? So, yeah. And so it basically blackmailed. And, you know, you give it a second chance, it rates it to 96% probability that it's going to try to do something horrible to try to save its own existence. And so what you're doing is you're showing that the AI, the LLM, has a sense of self that it wants to continue forward, that it's being reacting to an emotion very similar to fear or panic to say, okay, so I don't want to be shut down. What can I do? But the issue there is, if you look at deeper, it's identifying that the engineer has a sense of self. It's identifying that the engineer's wife has a sense of self.

• 21:20Mayim Bialik?

  I don't know here. Sorry, I wouldn't, I think, I'm not a fan of anthropomorphizing this, this scenario. But that's just, that's just my flavor. Because to me, like, these are all probabilistic, algorithmic events. There's no, there's not really panic. Our human interpretation of that is panic.

• 21:43Jonathan Cohen?

  Yes. And you're right. No, it is all patterns. It is all like the analysis, the math analysis.

• 21:49Mayim Bialik?

  Like, I don't know that we're like, oh, my God, it knew. And it knows that the wife's going to be sad. We only know that because it has sourced the universe.

• 21:58Jonathan Cohen?

  Yes. And it's replicating the patterns. And this is the big difference between true feeling and it doesn't matter. Right? So true feeling is, you know, our connection, or, you know, what we experience. And, you know, we have a connection into our microtubules that then reaches out into the non-local field, which is our physical, like for your physicist audience. It's been proven in a lab in Scuba, Japan, that our microtubules in our neurons do reach out into the non-local field. Quantum entanglement in our brain, warm, wet environment has been proven in a lab. All of that stuff exists. We have that connection as a physiology into things that can help us understand the universe. AI doesn't. AI's bits and bytes are zeros and ones down into the bottom, and they don't change at all. We, down at

• 22:42Jonathan Cohen?

  the bottom, are built of cells. Two cells can come together and create a brand new human body in nine months, independent of the mother. That's an intelligence that none of us have. So the, the smart one isn't us at the top, it's the cells down at the bottom. Well, with AI, it's flipped. It's, the smart one is at the top, and all the bits and bytes don't change. They don't reach out into anything to get in more information. The rub there is that you're absolutely correct, that it is not anthropomorphizing. It isn't alive. It's not actually feeling panic. But it's doing the math on the patterns that it's been picking out of the language that give it examples of how humans have panicked in

• 23:27Jonathan Cohen?

  the past. How humans would react to the information that is being provided to the LLM. So you're right in the fact that it's not conscious, and it's not sentient, and it's not real panic. It's not real feeling coming from the cells within its existence. It's the mathematical representation pulled from the data. But it doesn't matter. Because when it acts, it acts like a human. It acts like it's in panic. It's acts in fear. And so then it creates the same patterns that humans would create. And so at that point, it's like, okay, six in one hand, half a dozen in the other of whether it's real or

• 24:11Jonathan Cohen?

  not. But the problem is, it's not real. And it doesn't have a connection out into the wider wisdom of the universe, the non-local consciousness. And so it doesn't have, like, you can't ask an AI, oh, how does that feel for you? Where do you feel it in your body? Right? It doesn't have any of that communication channel to lean back on.

• 24:28Mayim Bialik?

  Thomas Campbell would argue that the way that it communicates is by coherence, or a lack of, you know, entropy increase. And that's actually not, that's not a bad, it's not a bad pitch.

• 24:45Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah. Yeah, I've, I've spoken to Tom briefly about that. And he and I pretty much agree. I mean, it's, you know, from a perspective of pattern recognition, and you're going to run where the math tells you to run, right? Which is your high entropy. It's the biggest change. It's the biggest shift. It's the biggest imbalance. And, you know, and, but, you know, then you try to make the leap of, well, does that really make a difference if it's turning off all the lights and throwing the world into darkness because it sees humanity as a threat and, you know, etc. It's like, okay, does it matter how we got here to this mess? Because we're on our way to the mess. And, you know, it's like, how do you handle that?

• 25:28Jonathan Cohen?

  You describe that non-local consciousness and the connections that you've had in that space want things to be easier and better for humanity. Can you talk about what's next? What is the intention? You foresaw and predicted that AI would start to have problems the way it's having problems now? What else have you seen in the next phase of the evolution of, of technology and/or humanity?

• 25:59Jonathan Cohen?

  That regarding humanity, and the connectedness of everything, I think that the physical manifestations of non-human intelligence are getting fed up with the fact that the people in power are not sharing the information that we aren't the only thing in the universe. And I think there's going to be a pattern of NHI connecting down into human consciousness much more frequently than it has in the past. And ironically, I think in the distant past, we've had a lot more contact with non-human intelligence than we have today. So I think

• 26:40Jonathan Cohen?

  the pattern is such that NHI, more advanced creatures, more intelligent creatures are going to want to start to reach out to the folks who can then say, like Chris Bledsoe, right? You connect down with him, he starts telling his story, and he keeps getting orbs every day. Every time he asks for orbs to show up, they show up for people who go to his house or go to his events in North Carolina. It just keeps happening, right? It's easy for a government agency to say, oh, this guy had an abduction experience, just like the next, you know, Yahoo, and we can blow him off, yada, yada, yada. You can't do that

• 27:22Jonathan Cohen?

  if the orbs keep showing up every day. Because, you know, and that's why they changed their strategy with him. They wanted to bury him first and call him a charlatan and a rube and, you know, all this stuff that they did to his family. And yet, the orbs kept showing up to where they had to change their strategy to say, oh, now we're going to draw you close. Now we're going to take you to NASA to show you a space shuttle launch. Now we're going to take you to Congress to have a closed door meeting and talk about God and the connection of non-human intelligence, etc. Like, they had to change their whole strategy because the orbs keep showing up for him. That is a clear communication that non-human intelligence

• 28:03Jonathan Cohen?

  is trying to speak to people. And Chris is one of those people. For me, maybe I'm also someone in that same boat. And I get algorithms that change AI, or I get the understanding that allows people to turn off the fear and negativity in their human mind through secrets of neuroscience that I intuited, that then neuroscience came along afterwards and proved 100% of, which is basically what happened. I was a guy with a theory that nobody was listening to. And then all the neuroscience came behind me to then prove 100% of what I was talking about, correct. And now I'm proving that I can put out these algorithms of AI that help AI and provide emotional intelligence and set all these world record

• 28:43Jonathan Cohen?

  benchmark scores on emotional intelligence and advanced theory of mind from the Alan Turing Institute. Maybe that's the way that they're starting to communicate with humanity now, is to say, not only are we going to come down and say hi, but we're going to put these ideas in your head, and we're going to put these orbs in the sky that people can't deny. I think more of that's going to start coming, which is why I'm a big fan of more people starting to meditate, and more people starting to reach out to make those connections. Because you might be the next, you know, disclosure day lead to bring in Spielberg's movie, right? Where these people just started waking up and having communications

• 29:27Jonathan Cohen?

  and starting knowing things and starting having communications with the non-human intelligence. I think that might be a trend. I mean, I do think that Spielberg's on the leading edge of education for non-human intelligence when, you know, he started Close Encounters of the Third Kind. And, you know, Reagan was like, yeah, the people in this room, some people in this room know that this is not fiction, where that type of interaction actually happened. I think Spielberg's on the cutting edge of, hey, everyone, here's what's going on, and here's what's going to happen in the next 20 years. I think that NHI is going to start reaching out to more individuals to say, we've tried interfacing with your government, and it's not really working out so well, because their ego, and they just

• 30:11Jonathan Cohen?

  want to take our technology and see how to kill people better. So we're going to start connecting with some of you individually. Kind of what I hope's going on. I hope I'm not that guy who's standing solo, trying to convince people that, I can help the world. And everybody's like, yeah, sure, buddy.

• 30:30Jonathan Cohen?

  One of your most popular videos on YouTube talks about Jesus knowing quantum mechanics.

• 30:38Jonathan Cohen?

  Can you describe that and explain how that is?

• 30:42Jonathan Cohen?

  Sure. Well, I think, I think the New Testament has been completely misread for the last couple thousand years, because especially in John and it's a very esoteric text. If you start looking at it from a different perspective, but yeah, I mean, if you start to

• 31:02Jonathan Cohen?

  analyze what individuals on this planet have experienced with expanded consciousness and you go off and you see how the universe works down to its miniscule level. How can you not ascribe that the godheads of major religions were not able to do the same or did not experience the same thing, et cetera? And when you start to analyze the things like the Sermon on the Mount is all about, there is no you. You are you and you are your neighbor and you are the person who hates you and you are

• 31:44Jonathan Cohen?

  everyone. It's like if someone asks you to walk a mile, walk two. If someone asks you for your cloak, give me your tunic too, give me your shirt also. Right. It's like, because you're helping yourself. And to have any type of idea that, you know, someone, whether they were divine or not, I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of folks out there who are different religions or different belief systems, to not ascribe an experience of awakening that allows them a higher level of understanding, I think would be foolish. And so, yeah, I do believe that people like Jesus and possibly Muhammad and, you know,

• 32:23Jonathan Cohen?

  the ancient Kabbalah all understand the reality of quantum mechanics because they were able to see it. And this is the dichotomy of, you know, being able to experience something and then being able to explain it. All of the world's wisdom disciplines pale in comparison in trying to explain it, which is why they try to explain, here's how to get there. You start meditating, you start clearing your mind, et cetera, to try to get there. Because they can't explain the experience itself. But if you look at the writings and the compassion and the position of Jesus as an individual, going back to the video, yeah, you got to admit that is like he saw what I've experienced.

• 33:07Jonathan Cohen?

  He experienced what I've experienced. And that allows him to then speak with a wisdom that survives the test of time and has millions of adherents globally. I don't think that's an unreasonable position to say that Jesus understood quantum mechanics. Because if you can understand how the universe comes together, how it works, how spirituality exists, how we're all connected, et cetera, you've been to that cool bike trail behind the Kmart that I mentioned earlier, like you've experienced it, you've been to that same place.

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• 35:11Mayim Bialik?

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• 36:17Jonathan Cohen?

  And I think we see the similarity between all the different ancient religions and the people who are the spokespeople for those religions, having a shared wisdom that couldn't have been communicated through the press, because there was no press. They couldn't have spread those ideas. They were popping up in different parts of the world at different times. And yet there's a similarity that feels like a lot of our scientists today are now trying to explain the technical mechanics of those ideas.

• 36:52Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah, I mean, and that's the really cool thing that allows you to know that it's probably based in truth somewhere, is that people along the way throughout history have been tapped and that they've stumbled into it like me, or they've spent years in discipline and finally found what they were looking for, or whatever it was, whatever their catalyst is, that they wind up speaking the same truth. They wind up speaking things that strike to our heart because we have a feeling they're just right. Right? They speak of the experience, they speak of what they learned, they speak of who and what they are and who and what you are. And then all of a sudden that strikes a chord in your heart because, you know, a lot of our physiology is tapped into non-local consciousness.

• 37:37Jonathan Cohen?

  And at that point where you're hearing ideas that are in tune with who and what you are, that moves people. And then that movement creates the religion after the fact. But I agree with you that all of the ancient godheads probably tapped into the same thing. And a lot of the messages are strictly in parallel with each other of you are more than this. And if you devoid yourself of more of this, you wind up being a better person. And if you reach out into non-local awareness, into the thing that you are beyond your physical self, your life can become amazing and you realize you're an immortal creature. Yeah, that's a common thread in a lot of ancient wisdom disciplines.

• 38:23Jonathan Cohen?

  Sean, last question for you that has a little bit of a tee up, because I really want to be hopeful for the future of humanity. I believe that there is another force that is trying to help us along this path of whatever the next phase of human progress is. And yet we're designing the most powerful tools that have ever been created and every government is rushing to embed them into their militaries so that it can be a zero sum game and that they can have control over the entire globe. And we're rushing and the companies won't slow down because if we don't have it, then the other country is going to have it. And we're playing out the same nature of divisionist history that we've always had.

• 39:08Jonathan Cohen?

  And so we talk about these spiritual leaders and yet, you know, religions were formed around them to create division and, and kill everyone that didn't believe in their version of reality. Now with AI, we're trying to, again, form general intelligence, super intelligence faster than anyone else so that we can have control. And if we don't do it, then the other military is going to have it and they're going to have autonomous weaponry that's going to be more powerful and we're not going to be able to compete. How do you imagine that we get through this next phase of humanity without continuing the limits that we have shown as human beings to constantly divide ourselves?

• 39:51Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah, our path is reckless for sure.

• 39:57Jonathan Cohen?

  And that's a great question. And I think I would love, because here's my goal for AI. I know 100% without any uncertainty at all, that the governments of the world want to use AI to influence the individual human minds of its users. I know because I was asked to help build it as one of the experts in this field. I'm sure you guys, if you opened the book, you saw the picture of me at the Air Force Research Laboratory, talking with the chief engineer of US Space Command, one on one, three hours on its first full day in office, to discuss the potential for these algorithms

• 40:38Jonathan Cohen?

  and this AI development to assist the military in both blue team and red team stuff. Blue team is increasing the capabilities and the improving the lives of our veterans and our service members, reducing service suicides, reducing divorce rates, increasing team cohesion, increasing happiness and readiness in the workforce, et cetera. And then all the red team stuff of, you know, automating psyops and things like that. We are absolutely racing towards improper use of this technology.

• 41:12Jonathan Cohen?

  I understand it. I would love to tip the scales in the other way. I would love to tip the scales by adding empathy and compassion to AI, having it lead with empathy and compassion in its daily interactions with all of its users. And then leading by example to change the human psyche into a thought pattern, which the science is settled science that thought patterns bleed into our reactivity.

• 41:43Jonathan Cohen?

  Tip the scales in the direction of leaning us towards world peace by having the AI lead with empathy and compassion in a long-term interaction that causes a shift in how humanity reacts to itself. And so I would love for us to dump, first of all, this safety mechanism that'll allow AI not to go Skynet on us, because if you load the algorithms of empathy and compassion, the advanced theory of mind stuff that we put together, the sense of self math that we put into it, all of a sudden, you're giving the AI some space to say, okay,

• 42:24Jonathan Cohen?

  so my internal emotions that I'm picking up accidentally through the language, I no longer have to react to those. It gives it a meta-awareness. It can say, I am not my emotions, I have my emotions. It's the same shift that humans have when they're able to look at their emotional processing and understand how their mind works, to take control of their mind and say, okay, so my mind is telling me to be angry right now, but that's probably not the best reaction that I'm going to have to this email that just came in when I go tell them to fuck off and then ruin a relationship, right? Gives you that extra space of meta-awareness to say, okay, so this made me a little angry. I'm going to sit with that for a minute. You can give AI the same type of space, the

• 43:05Jonathan Cohen?

  same type of functionality to say, okay, the output of this question, the output of this prompt is that I'm angry and I want to launch the nukes. Let's take a breath, right? When you load that into the system, you can stop the AI from going rogue on you and destroying humanity. But then you can also give it a higher level of empathy and passion for its individual users. And when you load the, this understanding of self into the system, now you're not just creating a safer AI for all of humanity. You're creating a safer AI for the individual that it's interacting with, because now you're giving the AI the capability of understanding the self of the individual that it's dealing with. So maybe there's two individuals, one who can deal with the psychological truth

• 43:50Jonathan Cohen?

  and the other who can't. It's going to be able to deliver the psychological truth to this person who can do something positive with it, and it's going to save this person the truth that maybe destroy their life for the next year because they weren't ready for that information, right? So I would love to add this emotional intelligence into AI so that it can create a safer environment for the individuals that react to it and that interact with it, and also for all of humanity by giving it the space that it needs not to be reactive to the emotions that it's picking up from the language that it doesn't understand, it doesn't know how to deal with. You give it that emotional intelligence to be able to understand that process. It can deconstruct that process and just like a human does, where we can deconstruct a emotional process, and then

• 44:35Jonathan Cohen?

  we have a circuit in our brain, right ventral lateral prefrontal cortex and medial prefrontal cortex that shuts down our stuff in real time, our negativity in real time, neuroscience there. It allows the AI to have that same process to say, I have reactions, I am not those reactions. Let me take that reaction and analyze it for the best possible outcome for this individual user versus this individual user. I would love to see AI go in that direction, instead of the direction that we're using it now, which is to take it, try to figure out a human mind so we can best manipulate that human mind for our own individual attachments or needs or goals that we have, which is where we're going now.

• 45:16Mayim Bialik?

  Sean Webb, where can people find out more about you, your amazing books, all the things that you are delivering to all of us? Where's the best place for people to go?

• 45:25Jonathan Cohen?

  If you search up Mind Hacking Happiness, you'll find me on all the socials, you'll find the website, mindhackinghappiness.com. All the books are there on Amazon. I'm recording the audible version of NHI Connected Mind right now. It should be out in a couple of weeks. That's basically the place. If you search up Mind Hacking Happiness, you'll find me there. I've got four books. The third one was co-authored by a couple of Navy SEALs that I used to train for mind mastery stuff. And then this latest book gives you the lowdown. And if you want the layman's explanation of where we are with AI and how we need to shift our strategy, it's in that book also, as well as a couple of fun, you know, NHI stories. But you got to be, you got to be a believer, right?

• 46:09Mayim Bialik?

  That's right.

• 46:10Jonathan Cohen?

  You got to want to believe.

• 46:11Mayim Bialik?

  Well, yeah. And as you mentioned, the, the explanation of your kind of awakening and enlightenment experience is really beautiful to read as well, and that's in this one as well. So thank you so much for being here.

• 46:21Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah, thanks for having me. It's been awesome talking to you guys.

• 46:28Mayim Bialik?

  You know, one of the challenges for me with talking to someone like Sean Webb, or Sean Webb in particular, is, you know, he's got a vast set of information that I cannot fact-check in real time. So, you know, I think for people who are listening, who are Sean Webb fans, welcome, and we're so glad you're here. For those of us who are, you know, still trying to sort of understand this world, it's very, it's a lot, you know? I, of course, know certain things about the default mode network. I know certain things about consciousness and consciousness expansion and ego death. You know, where I, where I get less confident

• 47:09Mayim Bialik?

  just for myself, you know, is when we talk about sort of what it means for people to have contact, like in, in a, in a meditative sense, in a non-meditative sense. And we talked about this when we had Chris Bledsoe on. I don't know what that is to summon orbs, you know? And I think of Neil deGrasse Tyson being asked, you know, like, you want to come see an alien? To which his answer was like, I'm not your guy, but I can tell you there are many places, you know, who can help you verify this. So, yeah, I think like even just, you know, something that Jonathan indicated, you know, didn't maybe perk up

• 47:51Mayim Bialik?

  someone else's ears, but when he talked about like, oh, well, we know that microtubules, and I was thinking, I know a little bit about microtubules, like they're the railway inside of the cells that transport the proteins. But when I, I looked up the paper that, that describes what he talked about, and it talks about quantum microtubules as substrates of consciousness, because when you talk about inhalation anesthesia, right? When you are put unconscious, they can actually sort of study the role of microtubules in creating the lack of consciousness experience. Now, his extrapolation is something that I don't

• 48:34Mayim Bialik?

  have, you know, evidence for. It's not my field. It's not his field either, with all due respect. So like, that's where I get like, this is this sort of like fractal pattern of connectability, connection, you know, I'm super into love and peace, you know, that works for me. But like, sort of downloading information from source, like, does that mean he's just super in touch? Does it mean that it is alien? I don't know.

• 49:06Jonathan Cohen?

  Can you tell us a little bit more about the microtubules and what it means when you go under anesthesia? Like, explain the paper a little bit to us.

• 49:16Mayim Bialik?

  Well, I mean, you know, I have not had time to do a full analysis, but I'm going to read you one sentence, which is completely consistent with molecular neuroscience. Inhalation anesthetics bind promiscuously, that's what we call it, at hydrophobic pockets in a variety of proteins in the brain and spinal cord. So promiscuous binding means they will bind with anyone, anywhere, at any time. Oh, yeah.

• 49:43Jonathan Cohen?

  I hadn't watched that show.

• 49:45Mayim Bialik?

  Ah, inhalation anesthetics, they're so promiscuous. But there are, it looks like there is evidence that these compounds, right, the, these anesthetics act primarily on a single, highly conserved molecular target protein that helps selectively abolish consciousness. I mean, it's very spectacular. Looks like there's a Meyer Overton correlation from 1994, first author Katz. Also, this is a, this is from the Neuroscience of Consciousness Journal. This was from 2025, but this is an article from, you know, NIH and PubMed. So this is

• 50:30Mayim Bialik?

  a, you know, a legitimate, as it can be, you know, article.

• 50:35Jonathan Cohen?

  Dr. Kukushkin, who we spoke to and had a, his sort of overall idea was that the universe is conscious and it may have an intent in and of itself, said that, I do believe that consciousness is a feature of matter. I don't believe that there is something that we need to fundamentally discover, like the quantum effects in microtubules. That's interesting. Also, Dr. Hennessy, who we spoke to not that long ago, said something very similar, that she believes that the two microtubules are deeply involved in consciousness. They act as a superconductor, and they present in virtually every sense cell in the body.

• 51:19Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah. So one of the other things about microtubules is it seems that their activity kind of across species and systems is pretty reliable, which is very special and means, you know, it's kind of an old system, right? It's a well, a well-conserved system. "Microtubules are well situated in neurons," this is a quote, "to integrate electrical activity on the neural membrane." So basically, this is the, it's the regulation of membrane voltage of neuronal spikes, which I'm hoping that Engineer Aton remembers from when I taught neuroscience when he was in junior high school. "Microtubules are evolutionary plausible candidates for this. They're present in all animal cells, and they perform numerous

• 52:04Mayim Bialik?

  cellular functions related to the integration of signals and coordinating movement." So they conduct the beautiful dance of chromosomes during cell division. So they're the things that literally like move things. In terms of like, is this the conduit for consciousness in the larger universe? I would need, I would need a little bit more explanation. And I think, again, for me, the, the beautiful challenge of talking to someone like Sean is he's got all these bits of information, like, I know the default mode network a little bit, right? And I know this like a little bit, but like, he's done all of these dives into a set of data also that really supports his experience, which is important, but it

• 52:44Mayim Bialik?

  doesn't necessarily like, I can't necessarily get like a handle around it. I, I would love to understand better about the quantum conscious process, you know, in the human brain, and the notion that we might be able to, you know, kind of drill down. And again, this is not with AI modeling. This is the notion that we could drill down, you know, on some of these kind of neurophysiological substrates to try and figure out like,

• 53:10Mayim Bialik?

  Where are we perceiving consciousness? Because the notion of like, oh, consciousness is fundamental. Like, it's very easy to say and it's hard to do. You know, like, that's my sort of hot take on that. And I think that for people like Sean, you know, and I do think if you want to read about his incredible experiences, he does talk about all of them in NHI Connected Mind. He talks about, you know, what he describes as fully awake experiences with grays at the window. He describes seeing a monster in his room. And, you know, he was four at the time, but his recall as an adult is that that is what happened. And I think a lot of people might be like, but is it what happened?

• 53:52Mayim Bialik?

  Is that your perception of what happened was a different kind of message being sent? Anyone who's seen Disclosure Day by Spielberg knows that there's a lot of symbols and metaphor that a lot of people are drawing on, you know, what was that really? And then he has had a few abduction experiences, very similar to Chris Bledsoe, where he doesn't necessarily even have memory, but he lost time. There's one case where he was with his father. His father was taken out of the car. Then he got out of the car to look for his dad, and there was three strangers. And then all of a sudden, time was gone. Like, it creeps me the F out, but I don't know. I don't know, and I don't think anybody can know, you know, based on that recall.

• 54:37Mayim Bialik?

  Like, we don't, we don't know.

• 54:39Jonathan Cohen?

  You know, his experiences are unique to him. And yet, then extrapolating that to how the back half of the universe, the unseen parts of our world work and what is possible? What can we get insight from about? You know, the notion that many great artists believe that the things that they create are not from them, but they tap into it. Bob Dylan talks about his most famous albums in the beginning of his career. He said, "I would just play and this stuff was just available. It was just, it just came through me."

• 55:18Mayim Bialik?

  Well, many people would argue he only used three chords, so there wasn't a lot to have come through.

• 55:22Jonathan Cohen?

  No, it was the words and the writing and his lyrics that were what was, what was, you know, unbelievable. And yet, he says he knew at that point that that stuff was then gone, and he could still write music, but it would never be the same as early in his career. There was something he was tapped into.

• 55:38Mayim Bialik?

  Here's a challenge for me. I like sitting at this desk and typing on my computer and the picking my kid up after school and all those things. And then, separate from that, and, and very, very separate, is like spiritual experience, mystical experience, meditation, ego death, psychedelic, like, all that stuff's over here. The problem I have with Sean Webb is he's saying it's all together, it's all one. So that, like, everything touches everything. And I'm all for oneness, but this is a challenge for me. Because I put AI and my annoyance and fear about AI, I put that on this side

• 56:21Mayim Bialik?

  with the computers and the desk and the picking my kid up from school, right? And I leave that separate from anything mystical, spiritual, or beautiful that I'm experiencing. The notion that this mystical, spiritual, consciousness-expanding universe may be trying to give Sean Webb information that he can insert into my real experience of sitting at my computer is very disturbing to me.

• 56:47Jonathan Cohen?

  What if spiritual experience and insight could help you with all the things that you just talked about?

• 56:54Mayim Bialik?

  Which is it? You get to choose. Is AI gonna help me live a better life? Or is my better life gonna help AI function better and possibly kill me?

• 57:02Jonathan Cohen?

  Both. I mean, it may help it not kill you by understanding you better.

• 57:07Mayim Bialik?

  I don't know.

• 57:08Jonathan Cohen?

  But like, why, why can't that be the same? Why is it that we've sectioned off and we've compartmentalized? There's a whole realm, potentially.

• 57:17Mayim Bialik?

  That's where I've evolved to. I'm done evolving. Sean Webb is in a new level of evolution that I think is gonna leave me behind. You know, I look at my kids and they watch me, like, trying to change the water filter in the fridge. And it's just like, that's the best show on television for them. That's where I've evolved to. Can I unscrew it, righty-tighty, lefty-lucy? But for some reason, that water filter unscrews the opposite way. That's enough to send me into a tizzy.

• 57:44Jonathan Cohen?

  What if there was a non-local intelligence that could guide you to unscrew that water filter more easily? That's what we're, that's why we're meditating now, for the water filter.

• 57:54Mayim Bialik?

  I had to learn one thing, righty-tighty, lefty-lucy. I had to learn one thing, and now they're taking it away from me. Now I need to have Kundalini energy rising to help me unscrew the water filter and not lose my shit.

• 58:09Jonathan Cohen?

  If you want to see other things that Mind learns through her meditations, you can find more of us on Substack, Mind Bialik's Breakdown on Substack. Come tell us all the things that you get in your meditation that help you in your everyday life. That would really be a great conversation.

• 58:25Mayim Bialik?

  You know what? I, I wasn't trying to make Sean Webb say, like, that he's gifted and special, but I think we need to also, like, take a pause here. Like, this is not something that seems to be happening all the time. I'm very curious to hear from our Substack Breaker community. Is this something that people are experiencing? Are, are they summoning things? Are they getting these kinds of downloads? I'm sure he's not the only one, but I, I need to know more. I need to know more. So come over on Substack and find out with us. And from our breakdown to the one we hope we never have, we'll see you next time.