The P*rnhub Email Recap Marketing Strategy

Neil and Eric break down a controversial email marketing stunt inspired by a P hub recap, debating open rates, spam risk, and long-term brand damage. The conversation expands into X versus LinkedIn for information speed, how misinformation spreads online, why AI may amplify bad data, and how to think about hiring through a high alpha vs low beta framework. They close by debating the last real moat in business, arguing that brand, narrative, and perspective matter more than ever in a commoditized world. Key Takeaways High open rates can still destroy brand trust Misinformation spreads faster than truth on social platforms Brand and perspective may be the last defensible moat Chapters (00:00) Phub Email Marketing Stunt (00:53) Spam Risk vs Open Rates (01:41) X vs LinkedIn Information Speed (03:56) Misinformation and Telephone Effect (07:01) High Alpha vs Low Beta Hiring (12:06) Paid Protests and Marketing Signals (15:36) The Last Moat Standing (17:03) Brand, Story, and Perspective

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 0:39Speaker 00

  Okay, you know what this is though, right?

• 0:41Speaker 01

  No.

• 0:41Speaker 00

  Here, check this out, check this out.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  I just know that company had issues with like child pornography or something. Didn't they get sued and private equity took them over or something like that? It was all over TechCrunch.

• 0:51Speaker 00

  That I have no idea, but here, let me give you this, okay? This is a Pornhub email marketing strategy, okay? It says, "Your Pornhub 2025 recap." It says, "Nah, just kidding, Camille, but since you're reading this, it's Mike. Are you already using Salesforce at your company? We help early-stage and growing-stage startups set up Salesforce instances." This is gonna have a high click-through rate, right?

• 1:12Speaker 01

  So I saw this. You forwarded it to me.

• 1:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, oh yeah, I did, that's right.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. I didn't know that that's what you were talking about, email. I thought you had like some viral way to capture more emails, but um, I think this is gonna have amazing open rate, kind of. Um, and the reason I say kind of, for when it lands in the inbox, I think it's gonna have a high open rate. But I think that title and saying adult words in your subject line is gonna cause a lot of the emails to go into the spam box.

• 1:40Speaker 00

  Yep. And I think people market as spam too. I think some people are gonna find it in good taste, like you and I would find it funny. I think some people will really not like it and market it as spam. And I think it's gonna do more brand damage than it actually helps. So I don't think it's worth it. The trade-off isn't worth it to get this type of response. Unless you're like a meme, you know, channel or something like that.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Wait, did they get a lot of likes on LinkedIn?

• 2:00Speaker 00

  This guy posted it like yesterday, so it's already old news, but on Twitter just got a lot of engagement, a ton of engagement.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Not on LinkedIn though.

• 2:06Speaker 00

  No, not on LinkedIn. Yeah, I think it's like 200 likes or something, which is like decent.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  Because on LinkedIn, it's so corporate and proper and people can see who likes what and they're like, oh, this can make me look bad.

• 2:15Speaker 00

  You know what I say too? If you want to move quickly with the pace of information, it's X, like not even close.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:21Speaker 00

  It's like LinkedIn is like, it's so proper. It's so like, the news you get on LinkedIn is sometimes it's even months old. So.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  But I would clarify on that. I think LinkedIn, I mean, X is the place to move forward on information when it comes to news and politics. I think for a lot of other stuff, it is not the source where people are releasing information and launches and updates and all that kind of stuff. I think it's, X is a place to go for mainstream news and you can see in some cases or a lot of cases, I would say, um, what's more accurate, but a lot of the times, and I'm a heavy X user. Uh, I probably use X more than any other social network, you know, just as FYI. But a lot of times it is, uh, off and a great example of this is, and there, there could be community notes now.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  But when I saw, uh, yesterday, something on X that said, Madani, who's the new mayor of New York City, has, uh, froze all sales of homes. You're no longer allowed to sell homes. And right away, I Googled it. It was gaining traction. Like this can't be true, right? Uh, because whatever he wants end up doing to some extent, people, the, the city or the government, whatever you want to call it, is just going to get sued and people are going to win. It's very hard for the government to tell you, you bought a home with your own money. You're not allowed to sell it. Um, and I knew that was wrong, but on X, right away, it showed that, you know, it was there and it was gaining traction and no community notes.

• 3:53Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, because of the speed, sometimes the information is going to be off. And there's a, I actually read this on X. The reason misinformation happens, remember the game we used to play as kids, you know, telephone? No, like people twist things into their own words and that's how misinformation happens. So no matter what, there's always going to be misinformation, right? Cause you transfer, someone will exaggerate a little bit. They'll take something out to, you know, maybe make their view look more favorable. So just take that part into account too. It's always a game of telephone. And that's why you have to look at information, but you have to learn how to make decisions for yourself and learn how to think for yourself. People on X are better at doing that than people on threads. I'll tell you that much.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  So there's an interesting telephone experiment, right? And this talks about misinformation on the web. When I was a little kid in school, we had telephone. I don't know what my class size was, call it twenty something students, I'm making up a number. And when I say a little kid, like, you know, like nine or ten years old, right? So not too young, but still young enough. And the teacher said, I'm gonna tell this person something, they're gonna tell each of you and you pass it down. I want you to repeat it exactly like the person told you. Don't change it, just repeat it exactly, alright? So when kids are young and a teacher's telling them something, they usually try to follow instructions.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  And I don't think they would try to do anything malicious because most kids don't understand the concept of misinformation. But what I learned from it was still when the teacher told everyone to repeat it exactly, it wasn't the same at the very end. And what ends up happening is it's not that people are trying to cheat or lie or screw others over. It's that people interpret certain things a different way than you or me or other people in this world may. It's just how their brains work, so they say something a little bit different unintentionally. And it's really hard to fix misinformation. And I think this is actually the biggest problem of AI and that we're gonna see in twenty twenty six and twenty twenty seven. Everyone's talking about how it's gonna do everything for you.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  AI is really often a lot of research, AI is often a lot of stuff because they're scraping the web, which has a ton of misinformation. And it's hard to get rid of misinformation. You always have more and more coming every single day and you have strong social signals and just algorithm signals for both the misinformation and the accurate information.

• 6:16Speaker 00

  You know, this kind of reminds me, Neil, that that little book that I read, The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity. So the whole idea behind this book is because there's so much misinformation, it and.

• 6:29Speaker 00

  Because you have people, there's four categories of people. You have intelligent people, you have stupid people, you have bandits, and you have people who are helpless, right? Now, it is none of, it's, it's, it's actually only, it's not even the bandits who ruin the world. It's actually, it says it's the stupid people that ruin the world because they'll, they'll interpret information, you know, in a way that isn't helpful. And whatever they try to do, they end up hurting society, and they end up hurting themselves in, in, in the process, right? So I, I highly recommend that book. It's only seventy-three pages or so, and I think it teaches you a lot. And I've actually never thought about stupidity that way, but something to keep in mind. Do you want to say something else?

• 7:03Speaker 01

  No.

• 7:04Speaker 00

  Okay, so I was, um, Neil, I mean, you know, in investing, there's a concept of high alpha and low beta, right? How, how would you define those two if you had to define those?

• 7:14Speaker 01

  So high alpha, from my understanding, is like high return, like you can end up making a lot of money on something.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Low beta, is low beta low commitment?

• 7:28Speaker 00

  No, low beta would be like low volatility. So like, yeah. So yes, on the high alpha. So when you're, when you're talking about like a stock that's high alpha, you're looking to outperform the index, right? We agree on that.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  And if we're talking about.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Size returns with high alpha.

• 7:41Speaker 00

  Correct. And then low beta, you want low volatility. So that actually applies into organization. So in your organization, sales, high alpha or low beta?

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Low beta is pretty consistent.

• 7:51Speaker 00

  No, hi, hi, hi, alpha. You want someone that's going to outperform, right, in sales, right?

• 7:55Speaker 01

  I thought you meant like as an organization, like sales is unpredictable. There's not tons of ups and downs.

• 8:00Speaker 00

  Sales as a role, right? And like, uh, let's say operate.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  You're talking about an individual contributor, not a whole department, not like our numbers for the month.

• 8:06Speaker 00

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Yes, we look for the people who are way better than the average so they can close way more. Like, so we have some sales reps who are way better than the average, and they really crush it for us.

• 8:16Speaker 00

  And these people, a lot of times, they're, they're very creative, they're also very aggressive, and they'll push boundaries, right?

• 8:22Speaker 01

  No.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  No, I I I would say the ones who are high alpha for our sales team is a little bit different. They're not actually salespeople. They tended to be product people or account managers. And they're subject matter experts and they understand it really well. So instead of looking at sales as a sales role, they look at it as a problem solving role and they're super analytical. And when you're pitching enterprises, that actually works way better than someone selling.

• 8:55Speaker 00

  So you're making my point for me. So it's I I want a high alpha role is very dynamic. Okay. So now the point that I'm trying to make here, Neil, is low beta would be someone like in finance, for example. You don't want someone who's that, you know, super like a controller. Okay. You don't you don't need them to be that. You need to be on the dot. You need to be detailed. Okay. Now, maybe maybe different with a CFO, you want them to be more strategic, right? So my point of saying all this is that there I I hadn't thought about this this way, like obviously high alpha and low beta applies to investing. But you're also investing in people too. And so I was talking to someone on my team. I'm like, hey, how would you define yourself? She's like, well, I'm I'm very high high alpha. Like she is jumping around. She's solving a lot of problems, right? I was like, yeah, exactly. That's why it's not the role the role that you're in right now is actually a low beta role.

• 9:38Speaker 00

  Where you you actually just need to make sure you're running the trains on time. That's why you're the right person, but you're in the wrong seat. And so a lot of times I think we need to think about our people in as investments and think about, hey, like, are they actually high alpha, low beta? And are they actually in the right role? And that's something I don't think enough about. Um, I'm pretty sure you don't think about it either, but it's I I think it's like to think about.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  So we don't think about it that way, but close enough when we're hiring people. We look for not only people that could potentially produce outsized returns and are A players. That's what we call like high alpha individuals where they can potentially do more. Um, but we want to make sure they're in the right roles. So I'll give you an example of this. So in our Uber system and the public product, we're hiring someone, uh, I forgot what division it is, whether it's engineering or product or support. And we have two amazing candidates.

• 10:31Speaker 00

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• 11:06Speaker 01

  One candidate is super overqualified. All right? They can do that job, plus a lot more. And the reason, and we'll end up choosing the one that's overqualified, because even though that role may limit them, we as an organization tend to say, this is what you need to do, and maintain this or make this way better. But on a side note, if you feel you can do anything else to help the organization, come to us and we'll help you get it done. And if they can show that they can do other things and provide a lot more value, we'll

• 11:46Speaker 01

  figure out new roles, new responsibilities, or expanding their role and making their comp plan align with the value that they're bringing. And we found that to work really well because good people will take a role sometimes that you have that they know they're overqualified for, but if they know there's an opportunity for them to do more and that role, a lot of times they'll jump on it if they can see the opportunity. And we love those people because some people are just like, I'm overqualified for this. I'm not going to touch this. I only want this kind of role. We find that the ones who are more hungry and aggressive and are willing to do whatever tend to produce better returns for us than the person who's like, I'm overqualified. This is the only role I want.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  We tend to find those people a little bit more complacent and lazy. We like go-getters. And when we have people, including our CEO, who's like, I'll scrub a toilet. I don't give a crap. I'll do whatever it takes. We find those people tend to produce the best for us, and those are our highest alpha people.

• 12:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, so you can layer this on with, you know, top grading, you know, however you look at an A player, hiring blueprint, whatever. And now you have this high alpha, low beta thing. I think it should be a helpful framework for you. By the way, earlier, we were talking a little bit about politics. I had this piece pulled up here from Bill Ackman, who's, we were just talking about investing. So I thought I'd pull this up. So, you know, what's interesting to me, Neil, and I haven't been paying attention to this, but he, so Bill Ackman, who's an investor, shares this tweet. So he says, protesters who are paid should be required to disclose that they are being paid and by whom. Protest are political speech slash advertising. Why are they exempt from the same disclosures required for political advertising? And so this person, Wall Street Apes, tweets this out, and he's like, check this out.

• 13:31Speaker 00

  Four protests in four different states pay very close attention to solid white signs with black letter of writing. Four protests in four different states, right? Proof this is all paid and organized. So New York City, Chicago, Orlando, Boston, and also check Portland protests, and they have the same signs, right? And so what do you think about this? Because it is a marketing thing. And

• 13:51Speaker 01

  I saw that. So I saw it right when he tweeted it out. I agree with it. And this, I think someone was saying that it may be China or Russia, and I don't know what's true or not. I have no proof of any of this kind of stuff. But I know, being someone who makes marketing material and puts it out there, there's no way that you have people in all these cities with very similar signs, if not the exact same sign.

• 14:19Speaker 00

  They got them up so fast.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Yes, got it up so fast and rallying at the same time. Huh. I wonder who's organizing all of this and funding it.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  And I forgot who ended up doing this, but someone was going on the street. This was during.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Uh, during the, the, the Hamas, you know, like Israel Hamas during that time, someone went on the street and started asking people if they were getting paid. And a lot of people were like, no comment. I don't want to respond to this. Now, if you weren't getting paid, most people wouldn't care to be like, of course I'm not getting paid, right? Yeah. But when a lot of people started saying no comment, or I don't have to end up telling you, chances are they're probably getting paid.

• 15:04Speaker 00

  I don't know if you remember this, this goes all the way back to, to COVID, but um, you would see these videos of people protesting, but you would see a pallet of bricks in the middle of the streets. Just like, how do you just see that? It's like you're playing a video game where you can pick up like Fortnite, you can pick up the bricks and just like go, like it's just ammo that's dropped in the middle, right? And so you can't tell me this is not paid. And the thing is, they actually went deeper on this. Um, because the, the, the extraction of uh, Maduro, I think is his name, the, the Venezuelan president. That happened very early in the morning. By two P, two AM or so, or two thirty AM, these signs were already in production. So they were showing these signs in production. And because these protests happened the next day. How is it that they all organized together and all had the same signs the next day?

• 15:48Speaker 00

  So I think there should be disclosures here, just like, like a lot of things don't make sense. Why, why aren't there disclosures for political advertising? Why, why is it that no voter ID is required? Like, how, how does that make any sense, right?

• 15:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're one of the only countries, from my understanding, that's like that.

• 16:03Speaker 00

  Yep, yep. Anyway, on a more positive note here, Neil, um, I have, if you were to guess today, okay? What do you think? Because we're talking about all the AI stuff is moving so quickly. Um, you know, a lot of stuff is getting commoditized, whatever. What do you think is the last moat standing? Because, you know, people like to talk about distribution, they like to talk about all these things. What do you think it is?

• 16:25Speaker 01

  I think the last motive is really brand. I think that is the only moat, at least in marketing, that's left. And I keep using this example, but it's one that resonates with anyone on, you know, in the world, because they all know it. Everyone understands a Michael Jordan shoe. You have the Jumpman logo. And people buy it. It's not because it's more comfortable or it looks cool. There's a lot of other shoe companies that can create shoes that are just as comfortable, if not more comfortable and just as cool. The reason people buy that is because their affinity to Michael Jordan. Um, I think branding is everything in marketing. It's really hard to build a massive brand, and if you can, you're on to something big.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  Um, Peter Thiel talks about it in his presentation on zero to one on how it's super important. If you look at a lot of the big companies that are monopolies, they have a massive brand. But it's funny in his speeches, like they have a big brand. I don't understand how they created the brand, right? Uh, it's harder for him to compute on that really brilliant guy. You know, I'm not trying to diss him, but uh, it is one of the most important things. And I think you build a brand, not just by being consistent, omni-channel, uh, doing things for a long time, doing it really well. What I'm seeing in today's world, people really have affinities towards personal brands. And if you can tie in a personal brand to whatever you're doing, I think that does help. Because a corporate brand is more of a faceless company.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  And it's hard for people to associate with a corporate brand as much as they can with a personal brand. And you can see this, go on social media, look up any company. There's no company that has more followers than like a Christian Ronaldo or a Kardashian or any of them. People just associate more with personal brands.

• 18:10Speaker 00

  Yeah. So what I'll say, I'll do a modification of this because we've been saying this on the podcast for a while, but I, I, I read this, this piece um, the other day and the title of this post is the last moat standing. Okay? So the question that this person poses is, poses is if anyone can build your product in a weekend, what's actually defensible? So the truth is the kid in his dorm now can quickly build the same product that your series B startup took five years to piece together. We built it is about as defensible as we have a website. Congrats. So does my dentist. So if anything and everything can be built quickly, what's left to build that has real staying power? Are there any moats left? The answer is simple. The last real moat standing is this, an opinionated perspective on the solution, or said differently.

• 18:51Speaker 00

  Just scroll down over here, having a perspective worth paying for. So when you, when Neil just brought up Jordans, for example. Jordan tells a story. Jordan tells a story of greatest basketball player ever. Okay. Talks about championships. There's a story around that. A brand tells a good story. And that's how I look at it. Like, why do you buy, you know, Coca-Cola over like, I don't know, Pepsi, for example? It's because Coca-Cola, you think about the polar berries, you think about having the Coke back with your family during the holidays back in the day. There's a story with the brand, and I think we're kind of saying the same thing here. That's what the person's saying. So, so yeah.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  It all ties in to build a brand. A lot of times you have to end up creating a narrative and a story that people can relate to. You know, when you look at Jordan, people understand his story and the hardships. Same with like LeBron James or Kobe Bryant or some of these athletes. Um, not all of them had hardships, but some of them did. And people can really resonate with them. Or like the Williams sisters, right? Serena and Venus Williams. A lot of people loved their movie. I believe Will Smith won an award for it. Uh, that was the day he slapped Chris Rock, if I'm not mistaken. But when you look at that movie, the reason it's done really well is people resonate extremely well

• 20:04Speaker 01

  with brands and stories, especially ones that are relatable and go through a lot of ups and downs, right? They call it the emotional roller coaster. If you can get people hooked on your emotional roller coaster, you can do really well with your personal brand. Now, the one thing people forget with branding is a big brand without streamlined operations and systems isn't that useful. You, you can't forget the fundamentals and people believe if they have a brand, but they lack the fundamentals, they'll still be okay. This is the reason why companies like L'Oréal and Estee Lauder are so much bigger than Kylie Cos- Kylie Cosmetics. It doesn't mean Kylie Cosmetics did a bad job.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  L'Oréal has a ton of distribution and reach and systems and processes that really help their brands make a ton of money.

• 20:52Speaker 00

  So, that being said, we will catch you later.