The Clipping Strategy Every Brand Will Copy

Neil and Eric break down why clipping is taking over B2B tech media, why horizontal videos may outperform vertical content on X and LinkedIn, and how companies like Ramp, Lovable, and Replit are building content factories for distribution. They also unpack Google’s latest AI SEO guidance, including why traditional SEO still matters for GEO and AEO, plus the biggest AI SEO myths marketers keep falling for. Key Takeaways:• Why clipping is becoming the B2B content meta• Horizontal vs vertical video debate for engagement• Google confirms SEO still matters for AI search Chapters:(00:00) Clipping Takes Over Tech Media(01:39) Engineering Content For Clipping(02:45) Horizontal vs Vertical Video Debate(09:41) Google’s AI SEO Guidelines(11:25) Non-Commodity Content Explained(16:42) AI SEO Myths And GEO Hacks(20:09) Marketing A Beverly Hills Home(21:21) Pinterest And Vibe Marketing

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Finding customer information shouldn't mean digging through emails, call notes, and spreadsheets. HubSpot's Starter Plan brings all of those details together, so it's easier to track what's happening with every deal and what to do next. It pulls information from calls and emails. Then it gets to work, logging and summarizing them. Right after your call ends, HubSpot pulls next steps from your call notes and drafts suggested follow-ups. And it stays up to date for you, so you can build demand, win more deals, and spend less time on repetitive work. Your records, insights, and next steps are ready for you to act on. And you don't have to miss a beat searching for any of it. Try the Starter Plan for $10 a month. Learn more at hubspot.com. Clipping is about to take over tech media, so we've kind of talked about this, but I want to go into how it's applying to tech companies, okay?

• 0:39Speaker 01

  Alright.

• 0:40Speaker 00

  So, Lovable is, they have like a clipping channel that's clipping their CEO. Ramp got 85 million views with the office's, um, bongardner, I think it's the Kevin from the office? The, um, the bald guy, do you remember what I'm talking about? Do you want the office?

• 0:55Speaker 01

  I didn't watch the show.

• 0:57Speaker 00

  You would love it.

• 0:59Speaker 00

  You would love it. And then, and so, Ramp got 85 million views and used five dedicated cameras, okay? Replit has a clipping channel, clipping their CEO, uh, CMO and getting hundreds of thousands of views, okay? Whisperflows, basically a lot of tech companies are starting to do this now. And we're starting to see this a lot more. So here's what I'm gonna say. So when, when he talks about clipping, by the way, I see the clipping as more horizontal videos. Or, or more vertical videos, you know, the ones that come straight down?

• 1:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26Speaker 00

  I think the clipping that works for people like you and me is more so the horizontal ones. The ones that go to the side. Because I've actually looked at my ex-analytics, the ones that are straight, like, vertical, they don't perform nearly as well as the horizontal ones. Same thing for LinkedIn as well. So I think if you go two to three minutes, two to 10 minutes or so, mid-form content, horizontal, that works a lot better than just the short form. So I think, sure, a clip away, but when we're talking about B2B, at least from what I've seen, that performs better.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  So, from B2B, we haven't seen any patterns with vertical versus horizontal. We see more so the content type. What I mean content type, like the subject, the topic, is it trending, is it not, is it hot? That impacts views more than anything else. So-

• 2:09Speaker 00

  To continue on this piece, so it says the bottleneck is source content. So what Neil and I are actually filming right now is source content. So even though this is a podcast here, you'll get the long form. The way we look at this is this is building a content factory, right? And you want to engineer the content for clipping. So in this, this episode, actually, we actually created a lot of classics. It's only that I didn't know Neil was going to contribute today. And so usually he doesn't. And so what happens is when I contribute and I ask my, my, my bot to do the work, it will actually look at all the links, it'll look at all the titles and I'll add a hook for each one. That's an example of engineering the content for clipping. Because you want to have like a strong hook to be able to lead to it and to get people's attentions for the first one to two seconds or so. Otherwise, you're going to lose them. And then, then you have to make sure that you're, you're curating the content

• 2:54Speaker 00

  and then making sure that they're going to the right channels. And then you want to make sure that you're tracking everything. We use Metricle, you can use an API for that. And then you double down on what's working and what isn't working. And then you just continue doing that. But I think you're seeing more and more people do it. And you know, we've been adding basically mid-rolls to the end of our, our clipped content. And I would say, yeah, it's, it's, it's been working pretty well. So anyway, all that to say is we're going to see a lot more of this. Sure, it's just the meta, it's the way of playing this right now.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  With B2B, when you mentioned vertical versus horizontal, I, I think one differentiator here is the vertical content tends to be shorter. And B2B, depending on the topic, a lot of people want more in-depth content because B2B can be very technical in some aspects. The horizontal content instead of vertical, right? Think of vertical as like shorts or Instagram reels. Think of the horizontal content as like a long-form YouTube video. You know, and I think that's what tends to do better in B2B is when you just go more in-depth on a topic versus just covering it for 30 or 60 seconds.

• 4:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, even when you go, by the way, Shout out to Overlap, by the way. Overlap's been great for clipping. Overlap, I think, has a limit on these horizontal 2-minute videos. And 2 minutes is actually not that long, right? And those actually perform pretty well on X. Because yesterday, or the day before, Neil, I was just scrolling through my X and I was looking at all the horizontal ones from the past. And every time it jumps from a vertical one to a horizontal one, it just performs a lot better, the horizontal one.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  But is a horizontal one longer in length?

• 4:32Speaker 00

  It's like 2 minutes versus 1 minute. It's not much longer.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  That's double the length.

• 4:36Speaker 00

  It's double, but you're getting a multiple of the views.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you're also getting more engagement. If someone's watching more, it keeps them on the platform longer, so the algorithm's probably pushing it harder.

• 4:46Speaker 00

  You are... Here's what I'll say to you. If you have a really good topic that performs well, and like, obviously, these algorithms are different, but when you're talking about something that crushes on Instagram, you push it on X, it just doesn't move, right? And so, we don't know... Well, I mean, technically, we do know how their algorithm works, because he open-sourced it on GitHub, right? And he has... In the algorithm, I actually asked my Hermes agent. I was like, "Hey, tell me about this agent." And it's like, "Oh, it's like, this algorithm really likes videos." And so, anyway, all that to say is, whenever we try doing the short form, and Neil has a point there, I'm just saying, from what I'm seeing right now, I'm staring at it. Yeah, big difference.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think, you know, it comes all down to almost...

• 5:24Speaker 00

  Dude, we have a horizontal one, okay? 42 seconds, 124,000 views, horizontal.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  I really do think it comes down to the topic. More than if it's horizontal and vertical. I don't think their algorithm cares that much if it's horizontal or vertical. I would be shocked if it does.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  I think it cares. Yeah, because here's something else I'll say. I talked to a guy that has a startup that specifically helps LinkedIn companies, and they have... They say they have a lot of data. They're like, "Yeah." So he's criticizing me, right, during the call? He's like, critiquing me. He's like, "Dude, you should stop posting horizontal." And same to you. I'm like, "What data do you have to back that up, right?" He's like, "I'm telling you, from what we've seen, when you switch it to the... When you go from vertical to horizontal, they just do better, right?" And then now, like, for the first time on X, I'm seeing that. I don't have anything to verify it on LinkedIn, but all I can do is look at my account. I'm like, "Yeah, big difference."

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, on my LinkedIn, I've gotten more views on the vertical than I have horizontal. No, the other way around.

• 6:16Speaker 00

  No, I'm saying vertical, I've gotten more views.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  No, you haven't.

• 6:19Speaker 00

  Yes, I have. I'm looking, I looked at your videos the other day.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's just one, if you just look at it in totality.

• 6:25Speaker 00

  We're not the individual, dude, that's cheating, we're talking about individual.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  But then I could say, oh, that topic was more of a hit and it's 10 minutes longer, so the engagement.

• 6:32Speaker 00

  No!

• 6:33Speaker 01

  I'm telling you, dude, this is the bunch of biggest baloney ever, if a vertical or horizontal. That doesn't logically make sense. And if you look at X, they publish their algorithm. I do not see one being horizontal versus vertical and it creates more engagement.

• 6:47Speaker 00

  Here, let me ask my thing while we, while we talk.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  Go check this out. Go look at what the average length is for a horizontal versus a vertical video. I bet you almost always, majority of the time, a horizontal video is longer. That impacts engagement.

• 7:01Speaker 00

  There are then vertical videos, uh, looking at the X algorithm and GitHub repo. Okay, so we'll come back to that.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just don't see it, cuz you've also had vertical images, uh, videos that get millions of views.

• 7:18Speaker 00

  Not on X, not on X. Not on X or LinkedIn.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Have you tried placing those videos on X and LinkedIn recently?

• 7:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, what do you mean placing?

• 7:27Speaker 01

  The vertical, the ones that got millions of views, like recently going to push.

• 7:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, we have, we have.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  Like recently, like now, like today or last month, not like last year.

• 7:34Speaker 00

  Last month, yeah.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  Which one?

• 7:36Speaker 00

  They don't work.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Which one, that got millions of views on YouTube?

• 7:39Speaker 00

  We tried the ones that, I don't remember, but we tried the ones, I'm like, hey, let's just try it on all of them. It doesn't work.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Pull it up, which one?

• 7:45Speaker 00

  It doesn't work.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  We got, we got right here.

• 7:47Speaker 00

  It doesn't work!

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Alright, I'm gonna go through.

• 7:49Speaker 00

  While you're doing this right now, Neil, I'm look, I'm looking at yours, okay? So I'm looking at Neil's, uh, vertical views right now. So 100 likes on this one, okay? Another vertical one, 146.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  You gotta go look at the views.

• 8:00Speaker 00

  Another one, 160, I can't look at your views, only you can see your views.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:04Speaker 00

  Okay, so then your, your next one, by the way.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  But on your X, by the way, I'm scrolling down to May 14th. I don't see any verticals. You're only posting horizontal.

• 8:13Speaker 00

  Because we switched.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  When'd you switch?

• 8:16Speaker 00

  Recently. You can ask my team. But, okay, I'm looking at, okay, your horizontal one on LinkedIn, and I don't want to lose the audience here, but you got 270 likes on this one and 81 comments.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  How much longer was the video?

• 8:30Speaker 00

  This one was 15 minutes. The other one was... Your other ones are like one minute or so?

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:36Speaker 00

  And by the way, I'm not disagreeing with you on, yes, the view, the views, the retention matters, because they want watch time.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Which they've actually published as part of their algorithm. That's why I believe horizontal...

• 8:46Speaker 00

  I'm looking at LinkedIn, by the way. So I don't know about LinkedIn, but X...

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Almost all social platforms look at video engagement.

• 8:52Speaker 00

  They want more watch time. I don't disagree with you there. I will say, though, like, okay, you published another one here. 556 likes on it. It's a 15-minute one. So, yeah.

• 9:04Speaker 00

  And you could make the argument, Neil, that a horizontal video has its longer form, so by default, it's going to get more engagement, right?

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, but typically, people spend more time creating a horizontal video than a vertical.

• 9:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  But like, I'm looking, I'm already at April 19th. I don't see any vertical videos on your profile.

• 9:22Speaker 00

  On X?

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Uh huh. I'm continually scrolling.

• 9:25Speaker 00

  Why is my Hermes not responding to me? Uh oh. Okay, there we go.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  I'm going back even more and more and more. Let's see. I'm on April 13th.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  You have a lot of X content.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  All right, I'm still going. I'm on April 5th.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  I see a GIF. That one's cool. Old-school Transformers. Uh oh, uh oh. Anyway, so I'm already in March. I still don't see any vertical videos on your profile on X.

• 9:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, beats me. But, point is, we've tried it. So

• 9:56Speaker 00

  we can move on while my Hermes pulls up the algorithm over here. Quick plug: If you want to win at AIO, then you gotta check out Clickflow at clickflow.com. It creates content that actually sounds like you, not AI slop. And there's a free 14-day free trial. Okay, back to it. So I'm gonna move on topics. Let's move on to...

• 10:19Speaker 00

  Google's Guide to Optimizing Your Website for AI, okay?

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 10:23Speaker 00

  So, this is the part that everyone missed about Google's Guide to Optimizing Your Website for AI. So, you've seen what they wrote about how to optimize your site for AI?

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Uh, I have not seen the article, but I did see someone post on LinkedIn how anytime they tell you what not to do, when people do it, they do better.

• 10:41Speaker 00

  What is that?

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Uh, when it comes to SEO and AI and GEO, because they have some guidelines that are published.

• 10:46Speaker 00

  So, this is, I'm talking about the guidelines.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  Internet sucks, but... There you go.

• 10:51Speaker 00

  I got it, okay, okay. So, um, this guy wrote this, okay? So, um, to Neil's point, uh, Google released something called Optimizing Your Website for Generative AI Features on Google Search, okay? So, here's what he says. Basically, it's like, oh, is SEO still relevant for generative engine search? So, this is what we should talk about first, okay? So, Google said, in short, yes, best SEO practices continue to be relevant. Which is interesting, because when people reach out to your company or my company, when they start saying, "Oh yeah, we just want AEO, we just want GEO, we don't want SEO," what do you say?

• 11:20Speaker 01

  Uh, if they just want SEO and not GEO?

• 11:23Speaker 00

  No, if they just want GEO, AEO, they're like, "Oh, we don't really need traditional SEO, we just need GEO, uh, AEO." What do you say to that?

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Well, we'll try to tell them what they, what we believe they need is and why. And if they only choose that they want one thing or to start off with one thing, we'll work with them and then we try to showcase how it's great, how it also benefits SEO, and how we can do a few other things and even kickstart the SEO even more. But we will be upfront and tell them, hey, there is overlap in both GEO and SEO.

• 11:52Speaker 00

  Yep. So, what Google, and I'm not gonna add anything, it's the same thing for our side, but Google also said, what do you want to do? You want to create valuable, non-commodity content for your audience. Easier said than done, okay?

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:04Speaker 00

  You should think about, what does that mean exactly? That means thought leadership content, right? It could be a really helpful PDF backed with data, okay? What else could it mean? It could mean what?

• 12:12Speaker 01

  Uh, my bad, I'm still scrolling on your X profile. I'm already in January 18th, I still haven't found a vertical video.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  What are you, what are you talking about?

• 12:21Speaker 01

  I'm certain, you want to see the last vertical video I saw?

• 12:24Speaker 00

  Can you, can you just, here, okay, here.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  I'm scrolling, dude.

• 12:28Speaker 00

  Here, I'm gonna scroll, I'm gonna scroll to the ones now, because you're trying to make a point, I'm gonna show you right here, so...

• 12:36Speaker 00

  I'm gonna go all the way back.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  Open Qua1, 12,000 views, here you go.

• 12:39Speaker 00

  I'm gonna go back, all the way.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  12,000 views.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  So, since Neil wants to double down, I'm gonna shove it in your face now. No, no, no, no, you're not letting it go.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  I think you're talking out of your butt, just being honest.

• 12:49Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  It's obvious that these algorithms look at engagement. Vertical has less view time.

• 12:54Speaker 00

  I didn't disagree with you, though.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  I know, but that's why Vertical would get less.

• 12:57Speaker 00

  I didn't disagree, but I...

• 12:58Speaker 01

  You created Vertical, that's 10 minutes.

• 12:59Speaker 00

  But you asked me a question, you said, "Did we publish any verticals that performed well on these other channels here?" And I'm gonna pull one up for you right now, okay?

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Yes, I wanna see it, cuz I don't see any verticals on your X.

• 13:10Speaker 00

  It's gonna ruin this, we're spending so much time on this right now, it's not good for the audience.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  I don't mind, cuz I had to go all the way to January.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  I'm already beyond January, okay? So, so, let's see, keep going.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  But that's not recent, you're talking about roughly 6 months ago.

• 13:25Speaker 00

  I'm talking about, we have published these things, and it's not like the algorithm just magically shifted into something new.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Okay, fair enough.

• 13:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  But where is it, months and months ago?

• 13:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is months, and I'm looking at it right now, I'm looking at it, look, I'm looking at a bunch right now, you see this? 118 views, 188 views.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  When was this?

• 13:42Speaker 00

  This is, uh, December.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  December?

• 13:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  But I also think it's the topic, cuz some of your horizontals have like Jensen Long in there and all those people.

• 13:50Speaker 00

  My point is, these same ones we've published on Instagram, and they've gotten way more views. Not 100 views, you know it's not 100 views, right?

• 13:58Speaker 01

  I don't know what is on your Instagram, but it could be...

• 13:59Speaker 00

  I go over here, I go, hey, remember? The ones, when I said, "If you hate billionaires, you have low IQ."

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:06Speaker 00

  That one crushed it, look at this.

• 14:09Speaker 00

  245 views.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 14:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's right, suck it, Neil.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  But it could just be, X is a different audience for that, and there are a lot of rich people on there.

• 14:18Speaker 00

  My point is...

• 14:19Speaker 01

  If you hate billionaires, what is it, if you hate billionaires?

• 14:22Speaker 00

  If you hate billionaires, you have low IQ.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Have low IQ?

• 14:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Eric S I U. Hating billionaires means you're focused on, uh, Instagram. All right, let's see if I can pull up the reel.

• 14:35Speaker 00

  Frictionless Growth Marketing hosted by Sonya Thompson is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Frictionless Growth Marketing hosted by Sonya Thompson shows how modern brands grow by removing the friction in their marketing and customer experience that pushes customers away every single day, often without leaders even realizing it. Each episode delivers practical insights, real brand examples, and conversations with marketing leaders, showing brands how to win with the new rules of growth, identity-driven marketing, cultural relevance, and frictionless customer experiences. Listen to Frictionless Growth Marketing wherever you get your podcasts.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  It did better on Instagram than X, but I just don't believe if it's, I don't think vertical versus, if I had to break it down, what I'm getting at is the format of vertical versus horizontal makes no difference on view count. I don't think that's part of the algorithm. I think it's everything to do with the content, content lane, etc., but not actually the format if it's vertical versus horizontal.

• 15:34Speaker 00

  Remember, I just gave you an example, right? So I, when I had a video that got 124,000 views and it was only 42 seconds, that was horizontal, recently, right? And you can look at the other ones, I'm trying to pull some up from recently, but it just, nothing else has gotten close to that before. Now, I want to caveat that by saying the caption I had was pretty good, too.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  What was it?

• 15:55Speaker 00

  I think the caption carried it. So it was, "My bet," here's the caption, Neil. So it says, "My bet is everyone is going to have something river-like at their company." So talking about the Shopify thing, and that was trending at the time.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:08Speaker 00

  So that helped it, yeah.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  But I think it's all, or what I'm getting at specifically, yes, we understand engagement matters, we understand hooks matter. I don't think the video format of vertical versus horizontal actually makes the difference in views. If anyone actually has real data on this and they took the same clip, same, you know, caption, same hook, etc., and one format, vertical, one horizontal, curious to see if you have data, please share it with us and then we can go from there.

• 16:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, so, and by the way, both these things can be true, right? Like, I didn't disagree with you earlier. I said, "Look, if there's greater watch time, it's going to perform better."

• 16:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I'm just saying, I don't think formatting matters. You know what, actually, I should just text my friend at LinkedIn.

• 16:51Speaker 00

  No, why don't you?

• 16:52Speaker 01

  I will, after this.

• 16:53Speaker 00

  What are you doing right now?

• 16:54Speaker 01

  It's because it goes on camera.

• 16:55Speaker 00

  Oh, okay, alright. Good call. Okay, so let's continue on this. So we'll see what happens and if you guys work at any of these companies. Oh, actually, I have someone I can hit up too. But we'll hit up our friends, we'll see what happens and we'll settle the debate that way. Now, going back to talking about Google optimizing your site with AI over here. Okay, so a couple of things and we can react to this over here, right? So, so first of all, Google again said SEO is still relevant for generative AI search. So for those of you that come to us when you say we just want GEO, AEO, come on. This stuff still grounds on SEO, traditional SEO. The other piece is create valuable non-commodity content for your audience. Which we talked about. The other part is build and maintain a clear technical structure for AI SEO.

• 17:38Speaker 00

  Guess what? That still goes back to traditional SEO. Like a lot of the technical structure that we're talking about right now. Schema markups, having an FAQ section, having a summary at the top with the bullet points. And all these things that are basically traditional SEOs and technical SEOs look at, still matters, right? And then it says, what you don't need to do, okay? You don't need LLMs.txt, you don't need to chunk your content. You don't need to rewrite your content just for AI systems. You don't need to seek inauthentic mentions. And you don't need to overly focus, interestingly enough, you don't need to overly focus on structured data. What do you think, Neil?

• 18:12Speaker 01

  My bad. I got, this one is a real emergency, but it's not a-

• 18:15Speaker 00

  Dude, Neil's a distraction machine today, man.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  My wife's like, I got a spider in my car, what do I do?

• 18:21Speaker 00

  Seriously? Seriously? Seriously? I'm like, hit it! Take care. Okay, anyway, so here's what Google said to focus on for AI SEO. Okay, we apologize, guys, for today. So, as you continue working on your website, remember that there are plenty of content thrives in Google's search. Without any overt SEO at all. And you don't need to accomplish everything in this guide in order to succeed on Google's search. To recap, here are the key takeaways from this guide. Apply SEO best practices to generative AI search. So continue prioritizing foundational SEO best practices. Such as building clear technical structure, creating unique valuable content. And then, create non-commodity content that's helpful, reliable, and people-first.

• 19:02Speaker 00

  Third, prioritize effective SEO strategies over G E O and A E O hacks. And you can ignore chunking content, creating unnecessary T X T L L M's dot T X T. And then finally, exploring agentic experiences. So stay informed about emerging technologies that allow A I agents to interact with your site, such as browser agents and new protocols. I think this is all great. By the way, S E Os like to invent work. Yeah, you know, I've been chunking my content in these L L M's dot T X T. That's how they get you to pay their consulting prices.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  Dude, so many S E Os say, oh, if you if you don't do this thing, you're not going to get any L L M traffic.

• 19:37Speaker 01

  What's that? Cloudflare. Cloudflare ended up releasing something for L L M's, where it ends up reducing the file size and makes it easier. So they can just get to the text of the or the meat of your content.

• 19:48Speaker 00

  The dot M D maker?

• 19:50Speaker 01

  No.

• 19:50Speaker 00

  Was that what it was?

• 19:51Speaker 01

  What did you call it?

• 19:52Speaker 00

  The dot M D maker, like the markdown maker? There's a markdown.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  I think it's, um, is it markdown?

• 19:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, because agents like reading markdown and to an extent even H T M L.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, markdown for agents.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Right? So they introduced this a while ago. Don't get me wrong, like, it's cool. But whether you do it or not, doesn't necessarily mean your traffic is going to go to zero or it's going to double up.

• 20:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  And we ran tests with this specifically using Cloudflare's solution with a few clients. And guess what the difference in L L M traffic was?

• 20:22Speaker 00

  Like almost nil?

• 20:23Speaker 01

  Pretty much. Exactly. Now, I'm going to caveat this in which we don't have the exact way to know if you're getting more citations. And people are seeing your brand mentioned more and it wasn't causing traffic. But from a traffic perspective, we didn't really see any meaningful results. And the reason I throw out that we're not a hundred percent sure is you could say, oh, Neil, why aren't you using visibility tools? Well, with A I visibility tools, you put in a prompt and then it tracks it for you. You don't know exactly what a user types in. There could be a sentence that Eric and I are searching for on Google's algorithm or some stats. But if we type it in with a few different words in that sentence, we can get different results. Heck, if you use the same prompt over and over again, you still can get different results.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  So the A I visibility tracking is not perfect. Eventually, you need Google and Open A I and Chat G P T to replace something like a search console.

• 21:16Speaker 00

  We should do a, here's a fun episode. You would get views on this one. So Neil's building a home in Beverly Hills right now. I'm just curious. When you're building a new home in Beverly Hills, to figure out the right materials for your home, how was the marketing that convinced you? Like, how did that work to convince you to buy the right thing? Was it referral or what else went into it? Like the tub, for example, that you're talking about. What marketing got to you to convince you that that tub was the right tub to pick?

• 21:39Speaker 01

  It's called, I didn't pick anything and I will show up to the house and whatever it looks like, it looks like.

• 21:43Speaker 00

  So the marketing is the marketing happened to your wife?

• 21:46Speaker 01

  I have no idea. It's called designer wife or whoever picks stuff picks it and then I just go in and whatever is there. I think it's beautiful. If I say it's not beautiful, it'll cost me more to change it. Not nothing trouble, it just cost me to change it, which I don't want to do.

• 22:01Speaker 00

  Okay, so that's the practical business side of it, right? But I'm just, I'm just talking about like, not enough people talk about the marketing that goes into building a home, right?

• 22:10Speaker 01

  There's actually one channel and it appeals to women. It's Pinterest, right? Cause they have more of a woman audience than a male audience. Well, a lot of people do, I kid you not, when they're doing interior design stuff, they go look on Pinterest and they go look to see what's popular and has a lot of engagement and likes. And they're like, oh, I like some of this stuff. It's really popular. Other people like it. We should do something similar to this.

• 22:35Speaker 00

  This is what we call vibe marketing.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 22:38Speaker 00

  And we will end the episode on that. Goodbye.