Nvidia CEO's urinal story, and Why people hate course creators

In episode #2894, Eric Siu and Neil Patel discuss the humorous yet insightful story about Nvidia's CEO, Jensen Huan, the world of course creators, reflections on the pitfalls of fame, and the importance of authenticity in entrepreneurship. Don’t forget to help us grow by subscribing and liking on YouTube! Check out more of Eric’s content (Leveling UP YT) and Neil’s videos (Neil Patel YT) TIME-STAMPED SHOW NOTES: (00:00) The Urinal CEO: A Story of Intensity (04:11) The Reality of Course Creators (09:50) The Dangers of Fame and Wealth (15:10) That’s it for today! Don’t forget to rate, review, and subscribe! Go to https://www.marketingschool.io to learn more! Leave Some Feedback: What should we talk about next? Did you enjoy this episode? If so, please leave a short review. Connect with Us: Single Grain << Eric’s ad agency NP Digital << Neil’s ad agency X @neilpatel X @ericosiu

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:36Speaker 01

  I have not.

• 0:37Speaker 00

  Okay, so the urinal meme is where one guy's peeing, and there's like 20 urinals, and then it's like empty, right? And then another guy walks in, and he goes all the way to stand next to the other guy, to pee next to him, and starts talking to him. Now, here's what happened. Here's a guy working at Nvidia, literally the same scene. He's like peeing, minding his own business, and then Jensen Huang walks in. Right, Jensen Huang walks in, and he doesn't just pee in another random urinal. He goes all the way to stand next to the guy that's peeing, and starts peeing next to him. And then as he's peeing, he stands over and he's like, "So, how's it going?" And then the other guy's like, "Uh, it's going alright." And then Jensen's like, he side-eyes him, he's like... And then the other guy's like, starts panicking, he's like, "Oh, well..."

• 1:21Speaker 00

  You know, he starts telling him everything he does. He's like, "Yeah, you know, I started selling my products to, you know, other vendors. I'm teaching them, I'm educating them on how to use the products, blah, blah, blah." And then Jensen like looks back at the wall, and he like pulls up his, like, basically he finishes peeing, like, you know, zips up his pants and all that, and just walks away, right? He's satisfied. So, that is the intensity of Nvidia. Like, it doesn't, like, you want to talk about Elon saying, "What did you get done this week?", right? With Twitter, it's the same deal with Jensen. That's the level of intensity that I guess he has. I don't know if you need to be a urinal CEO, but that's a great story.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  So, he's straight up asking his coworker, while he's pissing,

• 2:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  "How things are going, and what are you doing?"

• 2:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, it's just how things are going, and if you answer in a poor way, then he looks at you all weird, and then you have to like tell him basically everything you're doing. And then he gets a satisfying answer, and he leaves.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  So the guy's first response, based on what you said, he wasn't satisfied, hence he gave him the look.

• 2:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  So then the guy knew he had a

• 2:20Speaker 00

  He had a problem, yeah. Because the thing, also, like, keep in mind, like, I don't like talking to someone in the restroom, right? This guy doesn't like talking to someone in the restroom, and he shared this story later, and he's just like, that's the kind of person he is, and, uh, well, it's no surprise why they're so successful.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  I did not know it was that intense, and I'm assuming, based on what you're saying, he's like this all the time, not just in the restroom.

• 2:40Speaker 00

  I'm sure he's like that all the time. I mean, you know, you know who's kind of like that, too? You're not, you're not exactly a year or no founder, but you are, you are someone that checks in quite a bit.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, not when people are peeing.

• 2:51Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  But I do

• 2:52Speaker 00

  But you do check in quite a bit. To the point, like, you also have to be, like, a little unreasonable sometimes with your check-ins. You, you, you don't, you're not annoying about it, but I would say, observing you as a friend, I think sometimes you might over-check in a little too much.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. It depends which department. Sales would definitely

• 3:09Speaker 00

  Finance, yes.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Finance, sales, uh, management, different leaders, even though they don't report under me, I'll talk to them, and I'll be like, so how's it going? Do you think you can clean things up? Yeah, I'm pretty confident.

• 3:21Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Pretty confident, or confident?

• 3:23Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  No, I'm confident. How are you actually gonna achieve the results? You're saying we have too much SMB and too much churn, so how are you gonna do this? Well, I'm gonna hire two salespeople, already did, they're gonna start February, but wait, we get, oh, at least percentage-wise, call it 6-7% in that region or enterprise leads, how are they gonna do it? Oh, they're gonna leverage our contacts. Their contacts. Okay, they're gonna leverage contacts. Have you actually worked with them? What's a sales cycle like? Okay, so then why wouldn't you just scale up to 6 or 8 if you know that they're gonna work, and you're already telling me that they've done it? Oh, I wanna test out them before I just go and onboard in case it doesn't work out. But you said you've worked with them, and it's gonna work out, so what's wrong here, right? And then I keep going, and then until I'm satisfied, I pretty much lay off.

• 4:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  And then I usually call in a few days later and ask them the same questions.

• 4:10Speaker 00

  You call it a day later. You call it a day later sometimes.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  To see if they change the story, and I'm like, okay, so how do we get the results faster, and why aren't we getting the revenue now?

• 4:20Speaker 00

  That's, but it works. It legit works. I think if there's anything that we've learned from this, is that when you're running a company, there has to be a pusher in the company, and usually it's one of the co-founders, if not both. Yeah, I push a lot. You know, I don't think I'm the urinal type of founder, but I definitely probably over push. Yep. So, okay, we have one over here. I mean, okay, so my title was, this is why people hate course creators, but yours was on, um, no matter how clever your more, wait, which one is it from your side?

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Mine is your business is what you sell, not what you claim to be.

• 4:51Speaker 00

  Okay, well, I like my title more. Why do people hate course creator creators, deal?

• 4:55Speaker 01

  People hate course creators because they claim they have all these businesses and the success in the background and they made so much money from all these other things. But when you look at everything they do, they just sell courses.

• 5:06Speaker 00

  Yeah. And so I think there's nothing wrong with courses. I think what is wrong is when you make these outsized claims and the reality is when you start to peel the onion, there isn't much there, right? And so I mentioned to you, we're not going to name names here, but you know, for example, if, um, there's a, there's a multi-billion dollar company out there, right? And I think, um, you know, if you're, no, I think that reveals people. So I'm not going to reveal anything.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  No, I got a great example.

• 5:33Speaker 00

  Okay, go for it.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  There was this social channel where this guy goes, I'm not going to mention the name of the guy, but he asked people how much money they make. So this guy goes on social media, he says he made, you know, best year, he made a hundred million dollars.

• 5:45Speaker 00

  Ah, yes.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Or more than a hundred million dollars. No comment. Okay? And then I know the guy's past companies and I know there's no way they sold for that much and I know what they did. And then you look at their YouTube channel and just like, okay, you're telling me you deal with founders of tech companies, but yeah, everything you're doing is selling courses. And if you look at all your content, it's all motivational. You may be getting millions of views a month.

• 6:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  It's all motivational. You may have pictures on your social media of you going into a jet. Dude, your last startups did not do well. You made all your money selling courses. And to be clear on this, I actually have no issue. I like the person. I've hung out with them and done multiple dinners. I consider them a colleague, not a colleague, I call, I consider them acquaintance. They don't work with me at all. And the reason I point this out is like, they're chill. I can hang out with them and drink a beer even though I don't drink.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  But the issue that you end up having is, is like, cool, you provide courses or mastermind or mentorship, and people get value from that. That's what you are. Don't tell people you make a hundred million dollars, or you've made more than a hundred million dollars in a year, and, you know, you run all these kind of businesses and you're super successful. And I'm not saying you're not successful, but not a hundred million dollar successful. And this is like, there's no point in trying to paint a different picture than what's reality. Like showcasing jets and freedom and all this kind of stuff. It's like, no dude, this was all generated.

• 7:20Speaker 00

  The problem with this stuff too is when you're showing off to people that really have money, the one, the moment they see it, they get a sense for your jet, they know how much your jet is worth, okay? And the other thing too is they know how hard it is to build a company, much less two, three, four, or if you save a portfolio of fifty, a hundred businesses or whatever. The more you embellish it, the more you're actually showing to people that actually have money, that you, one, care a lot about what people think about you, and two, you actually don't have much relatively speaking, compared to them, right? Like, the person that you're trying to portray yourself, you're actually not at that level. And it shows a high level of insecurity at the end of the day. So again, I don't have a problem with courses. I bought a lot of courses in my lifetime. I love courses, right? You've taught courses, I've taught courses too, like, we're teaching right now. I love education, right? But this is why people hate course creators, because what happens is,

• 8:04Speaker 00

  what they represent themselves to be is actually not true. And so what happens is people feel like they're lied to, right? And so, I get it, like, this is why courses get a bad rap. And as long as people are more genuine with how they represent themselves, good.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Dude, you and I are on the same page. And it's like, we don't have issues with these people. It's more so what they pitch and what they do is totally different. Like, there are some people that go out there and talk about like, "Look at all these holding companies and look at all these companies that we buy." I'm like, "But if you look at all your ads and all your content, it's about how to make money and become rich. This has nothing to do with buying businesses." And you don't talk about buying businesses really online. You talk about selling people on whatever course you have.

• 8:47Speaker 00

  Dude, and by the way, I had a friend today. So I was hanging out, he came over. And so he has a new, he started like a new supplement line, right? And he talked to a health influencer. I was like, "Oh, you should go to this health influencer over here. Maybe partner up with this guy, right? Maybe ask him a couple of questions." And this guy is his friend, right? So, okay, if I go to you and I ask you for advice, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna give me, you're gonna give me your thoughts, right?

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:10Speaker 00

  And so, here's the thing. That guy, the influencer, was like, "Oh, this is part of my consulting arm. I charged $5,000 for it." Right? It's no different than the guy you were talking about, but we're not gonna, we can't give this story because it reveals who this person is. But like, if you're a friend and you pull out all of a sudden, "Oh, this is my, this is my consulting arm and you're gonna pay $5,000", what are you doing?

• 9:30Speaker 01

  What kind of friend are you?

• 9:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're not, you're not a real friend. And so this is why people hate courses people.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  Yep. And going back to the Jets, one thing is, is most rich people don't want to showcase how much money they have or pictures of Jets or anything like that. They don't want to draw attention and they don't want to get sued. It's not that they're doing anything sketchy. It's just people tend to sue rich people. And the bigger your company is, you'll always be in some sort of lawsuit. If you don't believe me, you'll be in an employment lawsuit or something silly and frivolous that you can probably beat. But a lot of times it's just easier paying someone three to five grand than it is to pay the legal fees, even when you have internal legal counsel like we do. And then the second thing is, when these people talk about how much cash flow that they generate on an annual basis and how much money they're spitting off and the freedom and flexibility,

• 10:20Speaker 01

  most wealthy people I know, they take that money and they reinvest it. They don't talk about all this cash that they're spitting off and instead, they just try to reinvest everything and make more and more money.

• 10:30Speaker 00

  I just, you, like... When you show off things, you're attracting the wrong audience anyway. Like you're attracting like 20 year old version of me or 15 year old version of me that just wants all these things. It's not exactly the right audience anyway. And the other thing is, what's what the bigger trade off here is you're exposing yourself to your point. And there's little to no need to expose yourself in that way. Like if you look at the content we put out, what is it? It's mostly educational stuff. I might have some philosophical stuff. And I don't think I ever post anything about cars or eating nice food or whatever, right? You never post because you just don't post that stuff. But like, it's just mostly educational and like, and then otherwise we just try to keep to ourselves. That is how you want to be. Ideally, you become successful and anonymous.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Yes, like Eric has an amazing view of, uh, I won't say what your view is of. Actually, I will. I don't think you care.

• 11:19Speaker 00

  Sure, I don't care.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  It's a, it's of a, one of the fanciest golf courses in all of Los Angeles, if not the fanciest golf course.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  Is it?

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:26Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  And he has amazing view of it. It's actually one of the hardest country clubs to ever get in, period.

• 11:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  In the United States. So he has amazing view of it and he has extremely nice car, doesn't care to talk about any of that. At the end of the day, it's just like you focus on your business, you focus on improving and all that's matter. All the other stuff is just a bunch of bull.

• 11:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. And by the way, like when you, when you focus on your business, I would hope that you're having fun. I, when I think, when I work every day, like I'm just excited.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:55Speaker 00

  And like, I feel great. It's, it's fun. And like, there's no need to draw, like, by the way, that other attention, here's the other problem with this and then we can move on from this topic. When you become famous, oh my God, the thing I've heard about this is when you become top famous, the thing that you want, you don't want to lose is your fame, right? And then it becomes a cycle where you just become like, it, it becomes painful. You're agonizing over losing that fame. You're, you're trying to think about how you can get it back. And then you're playing the wrong game at that point. You're not even playing business anymore. Frictionless Growth Marketing hosted by Sonya Thompson is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Frictionless Growth Marketing hosted by Sonya Thompson shows how modern brands grow by removing the friction in their marketing and customer experience that pushes customers away every single day, often without leaders even realizing it.

• 12:39Speaker 00

  Each episode delivers practical insights, real brand examples and conversations with marketing leaders, showing brands how to win with the new rules of growth, identity-driven marketing, cultural relevance, and frictionless customer experiences. Listen to Frictionless Growth Marketing wherever you get your podcasts.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  Dude, two things that are really interesting, alright, so. The first is, someone hit me up this morning to be the face of their info product. Oh. One of the most radically online personalities, extremely popular, womanizer. Okay, and I won't tell you who it is, but like, they don't make a million dollars a month, or two or three million a month. I'm talking about they make much more than that in cash flow. And they've had legal issues and they're just like, oh, wanna be more neutral, how can I get you involved? Get face, I'm like, no, thank you. And they're like, why not? And they, they reached out through a mutual friend that we both knew. And I was like, if I ever become the face of your brand, there goes my whole business. Yeah. I'm like, it's not worth it.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  I don't wanna deal with the legal troubles, I don't care if they're real or not, don't wanna deal with any of this. I just like running my own boring company that no one wants to talk about. And, you know, people don't think long-term, and I was like, why you wanna do this? Oh, I wanna clean things up, and the reason I wanna clean things up, because every time I post, people just hate. And I was like, well, if I became the face hypothetically, which I wouldn't, and you're giving me a cut, or I was investing money, your sales wouldn't do as well, because I'm not as radical with my views. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So I was like, the business model wouldn't work. Yeah. In general. And the second thing that I wanna end up bringing up when it comes to these course people, they use different firms to get popular on the internet.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  One of them, I've hired recently, and they did not, um, they mentioned my name to already another potential customer, and that customer emailed me saying like, hey, how are the results? They tell you, we're working with Neil now. And they're talking about how they're getting people like 10 million views, 15 million views, and all this kinda stuff. And yeah, they are. And I told them before I hired them, and there's a 30-day out, I'm not saying I'll, I'll use the 30-day out. I was very clear, I was like, hey, I'm down to do this, I'm down to sign an annual contract. You know, I'm happy with the 30-day out clause. And my team produces and does a lot of content and I was like, you know,

• 15:09Speaker 01

  I just look at this as a fun experiment to see your guys' process. But I was like, all the examples that you've done that just do really well is too generic content. I can't post on any of this because it won't drive any results for customers. And like, yeah, yeah, cool. We'll work with you. I was like, let's see what they produce in the first 30 days as in content ideas. Because I bet you they're going to be more motivational, aspirational. And when that person emailed me, who was another agency owner being like, yeah, they told me how they're working with you. And I was just like, yes, they seem to have great results, but it's all for generic content. When you look at every single creator and I don't know what they're going to do for me. Because I told them I can't create that kind of content. It just doesn't drive any revenue.

• 15:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's also not your style.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Yes. And they're like, totally agree, right? And is it worth testing, hey, do I produce a more generic entrepreneurship type of content? And then hopefully they see some of my other content and convert, but I still don't think it's going to do as well. And what I want to do is produce very specific marketing related content. And if they can't do that, I'm not saying I wouldn't go a little bit more generic, but it has to be related to business and marketing instead of just motivating someone and talking about how they're going to become rich. Anyway, that's it for today and we'll catch you tomorrow.