It Really Does Take 10 Years To Build A Brand, Are Most CEOs On A Rampage Right Now?, Shopify Is Making E-Commerce Sites A Relic?

In episode #2964, Eric Siu and Neil Patel discuss the value of events for networking, balancing work and family, and how CEOs adapt during tough times. They share travel experiences, reflect on leadership cycles, and explore the future of e-commerce and websites. Note: This episode was recorded while traveling. Audio quality may be lower than our usual standards. TIME-STAMPED SHOW NOTES (00:00) The Value of Free Events and Networking (03:01) Balancing Work and Family Life (06:04) Traveling and Personal Experiences (09:02) CEO Mindset: Rampage and Efficiency (12:02) Cycles of Strength and Weakness (15:07) The Future of E-commerce and Websites Prefer single topic episodes? Head over to our YouTube channel. To suggest a topic, go to https://www.marketingschool.io. For more content from Eric and Neil, check out Eric’s Leveling Up with Eric Siu YouTube channel and Neil’s Neil Patel YouTube channel. Connect with Us: Single Grain << Eric's ad agency NP Digital << Neil’s ad agency X @neilpatel, @ericosiu Instagram @neilpatel, @ericosiu Drop Us a Review If You Enjoyed the Episode!

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:38Speaker 00

  You asked me last time, why do I do this event for free? And I kind of mentioned that whenever I do these things, everything comes back to me 10 or 100 fold, but just on a different timeline. But I also know there's levels to these events, too. So the event that I told you about, the Business Summit, they actually hit me up because I did this event. And this event actually, this is the record for number of attendees, and they're up 50%. Yeah. And so they're like, how did you do that? Right? And they're like, okay, can you help with this event over here? Which is that event? And then what's gonna happen is, I'm gonna get you involved, because you're my friend, right? And I'm gonna get involved with that one, too, and hopefully help and see where it goes. But like, if you do something, and it's clear that you're competent, other

• 1:21Speaker 00

  people are gonna come ask you, especially if it's groups like this. There's level ups to everything.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree with that. I think, I think doing events is worth it. I go to a lot of events. And next year, I'll pick back up. This year was slowed down, because I decided at the, towards the end of last year, I'm gonna slow it down.

• 1:40Speaker 00

  He changes mine very quickly.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  Uh huh. Well, the economy also started getting bad. And dude, when crap gets bad, I need to generate revenue, so I have to hit the road.

• 1:48Speaker 00

  Sure, man.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  I don't really have a choice. Technically, I could just sit at home and decide to make less money, but I can't mentally.

• 1:56Speaker 00

  Okay, so how many days do you think you're gonna be gone this year and then next year?

• 2:00Speaker 01

  This year, I don't think I'll be on the road for more than 150 days.

• 2:05Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  Next year, I think I'll take it back up to call it like 200 and something.

• 2:10Speaker 00

  Oh my god. Okay, so get this. So there's an amazing guy, his name's Vin. He was on the Diary of a CEO podcast. He's a great conversationalist, a great, just a great speaker overall, very well spoken, probably the best that I've seen. So he listens to this podcast, hello Vin. And he was just talking about when he used to be a professional speaker, he was out 200 days. Year and his kids, I think it's just something about the kids where he just, it felt wrong and it felt like maybe there's resentment building with the kids, right? And you know, he's dialed it back quite a bit now and he doesn't really do a lot of podcasts or speaking. But he has a much better relationship with the kids. So I almost feel like I need to keep sending you the I R R thing. I sent Neil like this picture of this guy that said, it doesn't matter how much additional

• 2:55Speaker 00

  internal rate of return that you make if your kids hate you at 20. I feel like I need to keep sending that to you.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Yes, but what I've changed is I now take my kids with me on some of the trips.

• 3:03Speaker 00

  Okay, okay, that's

• 3:04Speaker 01

  So I'm trying to find a balance.

• 3:05Speaker 00

  That's good, that's

• 3:06Speaker 01

  So like, I'm doing an event in Vegas, they're coming with me there. My team was trying to see if I can do an event in Arizona in like

• 3:14Speaker 00

  Did your wife come to?

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, she would come as well.

• 3:17Speaker 00

  Oh, that's cool.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  So then I'm trying to see if the kids would be okay taken out of school during that time.

• 3:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, dude, we have a lot of friends that would just rip their kids out of school, like whenever a trip's happening.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:27Speaker 00

  You can just do that, right?

• 3:28Speaker 01

  That's what I want to do. I just have to make sure wife is okay with it.

• 3:32Speaker 00

  There, I mean, the school's probably okay because you, you know, you hook up the school, right?

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, we donated.

• 3:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  You know, happens with these schools, it's a racket. You know, if you donate too much to the school, they don't want you to leave the school to go to a different school because you need letters. You need a, they, you're required letters of recommendations to go to the next school. So if you're a good donor, it's really hard to get them to push to try to fight for you to leave to another school because they want the money from you.

• 4:01Speaker 00

  Wow. See, there's a whole, there's, there's like another podcast we can do on all this stuff. But okay, that's interesting. So you figured out a way around it and of the 200 days that you're going to travel next year, how many of those days are you going to include your family?

• 4:17Speaker 01

  I would say at least like 30, 40.

• 4:20Speaker 00

  That's actually good. 30, 40 days. Okay. 30, 40%. Oh, no, no, no, no, that's, that's less. Because you're doing 200 days. So 10, 20%, 15, 20% anyway.

• 4:33Speaker 00

  Cause the thing for Neil is when Neil travels, the same thing for me. I usually just stay in my room and I work. Um, and I don't really like, I might go sightseeing if it's somewhere I haven't been before, but then usually I'm just comfortable ordering room service and working and watching TV. Like it's a pretty good, like, I'm actually very happy doing that.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, so yesterday when I come into Miami, some guy messages me, okay? And this is a little, uh, non PG. And so this guy's messaging me, uh, this guy has a business in Los Angeles. Uh, he does really well. He's like, oh, you're going to Miami. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, I just landed and keep in mind I landed late. So it's pretty much close to midnight at this.

• 5:11Speaker 00

  How did he know you were going to Miami?

• 5:13Speaker 01

  Uh, he asked me, he's like, where are you? And cause I was texting, he was texting me and I'm like, dude, I can't answer your business question over the phone. He's trying to face him. I'm like in a flight. Text me your business problem. I'll answer it. So then he's like, are you going to Ocean 11? I think it was called or eight, Ocean 11? I don't know. Whatever it was.

• 5:28Speaker 00

  That's a movie.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Uh, that's what I thought too. And I was like, the movie with, uh, George Clooney and Brad Pitt? He's like, no, it's a, I think he said a club or gentleman's club or something like that. And I'm like, I'm going to a different club. And he's like, what club are you going to? And I was like, the St. Regis. He's like, you mean the St. Regis hotel? I'm like, yeah, I'm going to go to sleep and I'm going to sleep in.

• 5:50Speaker 00

  Club St. Regis.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  And this is the best partying ever. Cause when I travel.

• 5:54Speaker 00

  Oh, 11, 11.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Is it 11?

• 5:57Speaker 00

  So 11 is owned by YPR.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 6:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, there you go.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  I thought it was Ocean's 11.

• 6:03Speaker 00

  It's just 11.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Okay. So for me, when I go to a different country, I'm traveling, my favorite thing to do isn't to go out. It's straight up binge watch my Netflix shows that I couldn't watch, you know, cause a lot of random times was in jet lag.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Stay in order of room service. I still try to work out, although I pull my back. So I skipped today. And then, um, sleep in, cause when you have young kids, you do not get to sleep in. To me, that is better than partying, going out and it energizes me. And then I actually work way better because I'm like, just like recharged.

• 6:38Speaker 00

  Dude, speaking of which, okay, we like traveling and all that. Okay. Did you watch White Lotus season two?

• 6:43Speaker 01

  I've seen all three seasons.

• 6:44Speaker 00

  Okay. So, but season two is the best one, right?

• 6:46Speaker 01

  I like season one better.

• 6:47Speaker 00

  I've only seen season two so far, so I'm like four episodes in. But the way that Four Seasons marketed everything, like it basically is marketing for Four Seasons. That's how I see it, right? And but like in over like it's not even just it's over three seasons too. So I I think it's like the impressions that you get the number of times people are watching this where it's like ingrained in their head that you I want to go back to Italy now and I want to go to stay at a nice place like that sticks with you.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  But I don't think they're all in Four Seasons. I don't think season one was Four Seasons.

• 7:14Speaker 00

  I don't know about season one. I know season two and three are.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  I think the hotel is called White Lotus.

• 7:18Speaker 00

  No, of the first one?

• 7:20Speaker 01

  I think all of them.

• 7:20Speaker 00

  No, no, no, it's actually they for they filmed it. I I looked at I looked this up on Chat G P T.

• 7:26Speaker 00

  I think all of them are actually Four Seasons. And then season three, they actually picked a couple of other nice five star hotels in Thailand.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  No, but I don't during the show, I don't know if they call it Four Seasons.

• 7:35Speaker 00

  No, no, it's it's actually White Lotus. Yeah, they just rebranded it. But it's like, but then once you start to look at it's like, what is this hotel? Like, I want to be at the White Lotus hotel. It's like, oh, it's a Four Seasons.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can see that.

• 7:45Speaker 00

  And then you spending the extra amount of time like you're even more invested because you spent time researching it.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Dude, so I was at a Four Seasons recently in Vegas, okay? Check this out. So when I was at the Four Seasons.

• 7:56Speaker 00

  Oh, that that one on the side.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, we always go there. It's connected to the Mandalay Bay because it's no smoking. And with kids, I just don't like smoke. Like, I just refuse to do anything that is smoke oriented because I don't like the second half. So they give my kid a teddy bear. She's sleeping in the car in her car seat. She hides in there a teddy bear into her buckle, which isn't the safest thing because you don't want there to be a gap. But she was sleeping peacefully and we were in like a residential area driving. So I'm like, I let it be because it wasn't dangerous. But yeah, dude, they like they gave a teddy bear because they knew my kids will like teddy bears. When they arrived, it was close to Easter.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  They created a art piece cookie with different edible chocolate colors and they got to paint their own canvas. They did Easter egg hunt with them. They did all these extra things to make the event memorable. And also, when I go down there, no joke, if I if I arrive, the valet, they almost everyone knows my wife and my name. They know our kids. Could be because we tip them well, but you know, we don't go there that often, but call it three times a year. They just create really good experiences.

• 9:08Speaker 00

  And the thing is, they know if they give your kids a good experience, they're gonna want to go back there. And they will bother you to do it. Not bother you, but they will ask you if you can go back there.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Kids love it. So we keep going back there and we spend the money just because, and it's, it's expensive. It would be cheaper to stay at a hotel with the casino because they make casino revenue from you.

• 9:26Speaker 00

  Yep. So the question I have for you is, are you seeing with most of your CEO and founder friends right now? Would you say more CEOs are on a rampage right now or less?

• 9:36Speaker 01

  What do you mean by rampage?

• 9:37Speaker 00

  Meaning that these people are on a terror to uncover any areas of inefficiency and ruthlessly cut if needed.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  I'm going to rephrase it a little bit when I describe what they are. They're on a rampage, but a little bit of a different type of rampage. Some of it could be cost cutting. Some of it could be trying to drum up new business and revenue. Some of it could be trying to get strategic and figure out how to partner with other people and generate more revenue through cross-selling products, you know, from competitors or people who are in complementary businesses. They're trying to do whatever because the sentiment of the economy is so bad, they're afraid that they're just going all in. And going back to AI and cost cutting, the reason some of them are trying to figure out ways to reduce expenses

• 10:32Speaker 01

  is they're planning out contingencies for when things get worse because they don't know how bad it's going to get. It's been almost three years and they think it's going to continue for a little bit. Fed's not reducing really rates in any moment right now and tariff problems haven't been solved. So they're just trying to figure out, well, if we can create efficiencies, maybe I don't have to do layoffs in a few months.

• 10:53Speaker 00

  Yeah. Frictionless Growth Marketing hosted by Sonya Thompson is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Frictionless Growth Marketing hosted by Sonya Thompson shows how modern brands grow by removing the friction in their marketing and customer experience that pushes customers away every single day, often without leaders even realizing it. Each episode delivers practical insights, real brand examples and conversations with marketing leaders, showing brands how to win with the new rules of growth, identity-driven marketing, cultural relevance, and frictionless customer experiences. Listen to Frictionless Growth Marketing wherever you get your podcasts. My take on the rampage piece right now, and actually it's one of my friends that said this. He's like, I'm on a rampage right now because he had talked about one of his employees, you know,

• 11:38Speaker 00

  going to the gym during the call and then like being late to one of the calls. And he's just been firing a lot quicker. And this is one of the nicest guys that I know. And he's just like, he's like, oh, I just let go my head of design. I just let go of my head of product. Oh, we just fired our agency over here. I was like, dude. He's like, yeah, I'm on a rampage right now. And interestingly enough, I have someone I know. She, she runs like a large like food company. That's, that's global. And she is a very nice, rich global CEO. And she's like, yeah, I'm finding a bunch of dead bodies everywhere right now. And I'm just, I want to cut everywhere. And yesterday I met someone for the first, she's like, oh, I'm going to fire my entire marketing team. And so you have a lot of these really kind looking people that it just seems like they are maybe because to your point, we've been sitting in this, this crap for the last three years or so.

• 12:21Speaker 00

  I think people are becoming more battle harder, more battle hardened. And I think people are willing to take less crap. And you can probably argue I've become more battle hardened too. And I think you have too, in the last three years or so, more hardcore, more rampagey. And that's not to say, hey, we're here to just want to cut people. I think our tolerance for BS is lower now. Our tolerance for pain is probably higher, but our tolerance for BS is lower.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  And I think it's because a lot of us don't have choices. Growth has slowed down. And when growth slows down, valuations naturally decline as well. In a bad economy, valuations decline naturally as well. So when you, when you have a declining in valuation because of lower growth or negative growth and because of a bad economy, you're getting hit twice on the valuation end. So they have no choice but for ways to figure it out. And what I've noticed with a lot of these people, including myself, when times are good, we're much more chill. I actually travel less in a good economy than a bad economy because things are growing without me having to push hard. And I don't focus as much on meddling in the business when things are good

• 13:25Speaker 01

  versus when the economy is bad because isn't like, yeah, it's working, even if it's done in a different way than I think is best. Whatever it's working, let them go and do it.

• 13:34Speaker 00

  Dude, like I said, tough times create strong people and then it just goes on and on until we go back to we have we create weak people. Good times create weak people and that that's what happens. So we get one more to do. Now.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  And going back to the weak and strong people, I think the same person can get weak during good times, but then turn strong again during bad times and so forth and so on. I think people can also go in cycles as well where they get comfortable when times are really good.

• 14:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's true. Like, yeah, you're right. People go in cycles. There's there's times where you want to work. There's you have you have a season of work and there's times where you don't want to work. Maybe you have kids or whatever. And then there's times like, oh, maybe you feel like working again. And actually, yesterday, someone said to me, so they had a CEO took over their company. And this guy hadn't worked for like 20 years. He was a publicly traded CEO like 20 years ago, but he hasn't worked since, like, you know, stayed off into the sunset, right? So they weren't sure about this guy. But turns out this guy comes in, he's a badass. It's just he didn't want to work for a while. And now he's back working again and he's driving results. And this is a publicly traded company and it's that company we're talking about where that you're trying to do potentially a deal with.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Oh, cool.

• 14:39Speaker 00

  Yeah. So.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Oh, that guy took a sabbatical for a long time.

• 14:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, this incoming CEO, this is a hired gun CEO, but but he took a sabbatical for like 20 years or something like that. Call it 10, 20 years. Maybe he was investing, maybe he was like on boards and things like that, but he already had everything he needed. But I think he felt the need to go to battle again and maybe he's back.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  No, I didn't know that.

• 15:00Speaker 00

  That's what it is. All right. There's going to be a Shopify Chat GPT integration. Did you see that?

• 15:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:05Speaker 00

  Okay, so someone commented that Shopify is basically making e-commerce sites a relic. What do we think about that? Do we think that's true or false?

• 15:14Speaker 01

  Uh, I think that's false.

• 15:17Speaker 00

  I think it's short term, false, long term, true.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  It depends on how how good chat, yeah, and how well chat GPT, you know.

• 15:26Speaker 00

  How does that integration?

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Not just not not just that, because if you look at chat GPT, I think they've done really well for image creation and I think they've improved their research. They even do stuff like videos, but if you look at how much they've evolved.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  Like the differences in versions, I actually think, yes, there's still good improvements, but they're not as drastic as a previous versions from one to another. I think it's slowing down on the innovation end.

• 15:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, we'll see. I think just we can agree that website traffic is going to go down over time. I think it's still important for websites to have a traffic. I think if you're a brand or a company, you need to have a website. But I don't know if a lot of the business is going to be done on your website long term. I think it's going to decrease over time. I think it'll still be important. I wouldn't go as far as a relic, but I think it'll become less important over time.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  And I would rephrase it, and I'm pretty sure Eric and I, or I'm not even pretty sure. I know we're saying the same thing. When Eric says it's not as important in the future, he's not saying that you don't need a website. He's saying that it won't drive as much of your sales from a revenue perspective.

• 16:30Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  He's saying that you still need a website because if you don't have a website, it's probably going to hurt your social media presence. It's going to hurt that omnichannel approach. And what you'll find is sales are going to happen natively within different platforms, just like how you can purchase on Instagram right now. You'll start being able to purchase on all the other social platforms like YouTube, etc. So it doesn't mean that having a website isn't as important. It's more so more important to meet your customer wherever they want to be. But you need to have a website. It's super important for your brand. If you don't have one, I bet you'll see less results from all the other channels. And the reason you have to have a website is you can control the experience. You're limited on what experience you provide on other people's platforms based on what they allow you to do.

• 17:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think the big thing there, so you're right. The big thing there is you get to tell your own story on your website, and that's why it's important.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Yes, and it's still important from a revenue perspective, but it'll just drive a lower percentage of your overall revenue compared to, like if you're running Instagram ads, why would you want to send them to your website when your convert rate is going to drop versus just having them buy right then and there on Instagram?

• 17:37Speaker 00

  All right, guys, so that is it for today. Please don't forget to rate, view, subscribe. Let us know what you think about this episode where we recorded with the DJI Osmo. I set this up myself. We've got another camera over there. So that being said, we'll see you tomorrow.