Pod Insights Marketing School - Digital Marketing and Online Marketing Tips How We Buy Attention, Why I Never Try To Go For Multi-Million Dollar Deals, CEOs Are Choosing More AI, Less Jobs About this episode In episode #2962, Eric Siu and Neil Patel discuss buying attention in digital marketing, the evolution of personal branding, and the growing role of AI. They highlight the risks of algorithm changes and the need to combine human insight with AI to drive business efficiencies. Note: This episode was recorded while traveling. Audio quality may be lower than our usual standards. TIME-STAMPED SHOW NOTES (00:00) Buying Attention in the Digital Age (03:26) The Evolution of Personal Branding (11:22) AI: Overhyped or Underestimated? (17:52) Driving Efficiencies with AI Prefer single topic episodes? Head over to our YouTube channel. To suggest a topic, go to https://www.marketingschool.io. For more content from Eric and Neil, check out Eric’s Leveling Up with Eric Siu YouTube channel and Neil’s Neil Patel YouTube channel. Connect with Us: Single Grain << Eric's ad agency NP Digital << Neil’s ad agency X @neilpatel, @ericosiu Instagram @neilpatel, @ericosiu Drop Us a Review If You Enjoyed the Episode!
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0:37 Speaker 00 Dude, let's talk about how we buy attention.
0:40 Speaker 01 Yeah. So, I think the old way, we've both bought websites before. We've both spent a lot of money on marketing, you know, perspective-wise, not compared to like a Microsoft, but for our own brands compared to most SMBs and mid-sized corporations. And back in the day, we would both buy websites for their traffic and their reach, their Google rankings, their backlink. These days, I don't think you can buy attention like that because it's too fickle. You buy a YouTube following, does it just disappear overnight? Does the algorithm change where you can't get as much reach in the future? If you buy an Instagram handle, same issue. If you buy a site that gets a ton of Google traffic, same issue. What
1:24 Speaker 01 if the rankings tank? I'm not saying they're doing anything shady, but you can't control a future algorithm update or changes they want to make with AI. It doesn't mean social media is bad or SEO is bad. I'm just saying, it becomes a riskier business purchase. But on the flip side, what I've seen really consistent from an attention perspective, of the, all the acquisitions that we've done at NP Digital, two of them were Toolbase, one was Answer the Public, and one was Uber Sedes. And no joke, for both those tools, almost all their traffic came from people just going directly to the site or Googling their own brand name. Wasn't for a keyword ranking for Sharan, it was all branded related. And I still think you should buy a lot of attention, because you can use the attention
2:05 Speaker 01 to cross-sell into other products and services. But I think you have to be more picky with the attention, in which it has to be really strong brand affinity, because that's the attention that's harder for an algorithm to kick out.
2:18 Speaker 00 I'll tell you how I'm thinking about it right now.
2:23 Speaker 00 So actually Sean, Sean Kennel spoke at, spoke at the, the event here. So he talked about YouTube. So he's got like four million subscribers across his two YouTube channels, which is a good chunk.
2:31 Speaker 01 That's a lot.
2:32 Speaker 00 And he has like half a billion views overall. Um, and he was talking, we both revealed our numbers. So you're spending about sixty to seventy grand a month on your content. That doesn't include, you know, maybe payroll and other things like that. I'm spending around, call it twenty to twenty-five a month or so. That's the cost of us creating content right now. And that's how I see us buying attention in a sense. But the other thing that we're considering testing right now, so I was just talking with, with Nick Shackover. This is one of those, those little side conversations, but have you heard of WAP?
3:00 Speaker 01 I haven't.
3:01 Speaker 00 Yeah. So it's W H O P. So you can basically say, hey, you put ten grand up and they followed the Andrew Tate model. So the Andrew Tate model is you just pay a bunch of people to clip your content.
3:09 Speaker 01 Okay.
3:10 Speaker 00 I think this will work well for both of us. And so we've been talking with the WAP team. They're like, we're gonna do like a five hundred dollar test, like nothing, right? And then they're like, no, it's too small. You gotta spend more. You gotta spend more. I'm like, of course you're gonna say we need to spend more. So then we're like gonna up it to two thousand dollars for a test. And I was like, Nick, how much, honestly, like if I wanted to do a small test, what does it need to be? He's like, ten grand. Okay, okay. Ten grand sounds reasonable. So basically what happens is you determine how much you'll pay. You might say, I'll pay three dollars CPM. And then you put ten grand up and then people can come in and they'll start editing your content for you and clipping it and then putting onto social channels. And it's basically the Andrew Tate model where a bunch of people were clipping his content for like affiliate commissions and all that. That's the model. And that's how WAP actually was funded by Peter Thiel.
3:51 Speaker 00 And, and they're, they're trying to do it like a payments arbitrage here, but um, that's, that's the game. So I'm gonna test ten grand. And then I'm now, I, I, it looks like you might test it too.
3:59 Speaker 01 So WAP is a community where people just pretty much do the Andrew Tate model. Well, they'll clip up your stuff and then post it everywhere?
4:05 Speaker 00 Yeah. So it's basically a marketplace where editors can go and you can, you can basically, they can bid on your, your project. And then you can just say, hey, I'll pay three dollars CPM and like, get me these views. And then they, these creators, they get paid instantly to do this. And um, they will also be posting it to like different, different uh, channels to try to get more views.
4:22 Speaker 01 Is it junk impressions or you don't know yet?
4:24 Speaker 00 I don't know yet, but the people that I've talked about, like the way Nick has talked about it, I'm like, it, it seems legit enough for me to run a test. So I will report back on this ten grand test.
4:34 Speaker 01 Yeah. The, the hard part for me is I found that most marketing methods that we've tested out.
4:42 Speaker 01 Really struggle on the enterprise end. They're just not as effective because enterprises don't want risk.
4:48 Speaker 00 I don't think that works for enterprise. I think that works for you and me.
4:51 Speaker 01 For personal brands. Yes.
4:52 Speaker 00 Yeah.
4:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, I can see that.
4:54 Speaker 00 Yeah. So I'll let you know how it goes.
4:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:56 Speaker 00 Yeah.
4:57 Speaker 01 Dude, speaking of personal brands, I was flying yesterday. My flight was delayed. So Eric sends me this video that one of a big personal brand ended up doing. And they say they have this business, whatever the business is, is related to businesses or investing or whatnot. But what's funny is is like, I went to their site. And I looked at it and everything was selling info products and courses and workshops. And I was like, at the end of the day, you are what you sell. If you truly made your money from investing, you would have an investment website. If you truly made your money from courses, you would have a course website.
5:37 Speaker 00 You know what the thing is? You look at Warren Buffett, you look at Charlie Munger, they teach for free, they teach for fun and you can tell they're not looking to get anything from it.
5:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:45 Speaker 00 And and that's, that's, that's an important thing because I don't know of any investor, like you know, a lot of investors, I know a lot of investors. I don't know of any investor that needs to sell courses or, you know, masterminds and things like that.
5:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's like Peter Thiel. If he was to speak at your conference, do you think he really cares for a speaking fee?
6:02 Speaker 00 No, no, he would only want to do it because there's interesting people to hang out with and that's worth way more to him.
6:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah. He he he'll take his own jet if he's taking his own jet and that costs an arm and a leg. And speaking fees aren't going to make up for that.
6:15 Speaker 00 Well, you know what they say, if it smells funny, then then then what?
6:18 Speaker 01 It usually is fun.
6:20 Speaker 00 Or it smells fishy. That's what it is.
6:21 Speaker 01 If it smells fishy, usually it's fishy?
6:24 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, something like that. But it just, it doesn't like, the story's got to add up, right? Like,
6:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:29 Speaker 00 You share your struggles, I share my struggles and it's not like everything's rosy all the time. And I don't. I don't think we try to pretend like it is Rosie. Um, and we just have a conversation. And by the way, we, we, you met Josh. So Josh, he's the guy that was like, we just really enjoy it when you guys share stories. Oh, you know, you know what? Uh, one of our other friends said, so this is in an elevator. He's like, you know, you guys had the best marketing podcast out there. I truly believe it. Um, but you know why? I think you don't get more views. I was like, why? He's like, because people are racist. I was like, I don't think that, but like, but I think it's an interesting take.
6:59 Speaker 01 It's an interesting take. I don't think really.
7:01 Speaker 00 But you know what I want to test? In a couple of years, I want to test making AI avatars where it's perfect, 10 out of 10, where you become a model and I become a model and the voice becomes like a sexy girl. We just have our marketing school at different types, different colors, different races, different genders, everything. And we just see which one performs better.
7:18 Speaker 01 I think people just want to hear it from us. Um, and I think the reason we don't get the amount of views that some other podcasts do is because we tend to focus on marketing instead of focusing on things like fashion or television or politics.
7:32 Speaker 00 That's also, okay. So you know, there are some marketing creators out there like, um, Zoe Unlimited. So she's great. She talks a lot about the brand side of things too, right? Then you have, um, I think it's Alex Garcia. So Alex Garcia, he has a good Instagram channel, but it's highly produced marketing content where he's talking, he's, he's teaching a lot of the, when we started our, our very first episode, do you know what our most successful episode is?
7:52 Speaker 01 It's probably a tactic or strategy.
7:53 Speaker 00 Number, episode number one, how to learn marketing. But that's a very broad type of marketing tactic, topic. The way we talk about it now relates to a lot more around business operations and that's a much smaller group.
8:05 Speaker 01 It is, but when I saw your speech today, it hit me. I didn't say anything to you, but it hit me. We used to talk on very similar topics back in the day. And when you look at what you spoke on, it was on AI, but very specifically, it was very tactical and strategy. Would you agree with that? More so tactical, like how to get stuff done.
8:27 Speaker 00 Yeah.
8:28 Speaker 01 All right.
8:28 Speaker 00 Yours has changed.
8:29 Speaker 01 Mine's changed. I used to be very tactical. I stopped and I really mainly focus on strategy and nothing else.
8:35 Speaker 00 I think that's better for enterprise.
8:37 Speaker 01 Correct.
8:37 Speaker 00 Yeah.
8:38 Speaker 01 And I learned that tactical is better for SMB.
8:41 Speaker 00 Yep. And I think this group, to your point, is more mid-market SMB level.
8:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:45 Speaker 00 Yeah. Um, I think you have to tailor your talk to whoever it is. You have to know your audience. That's what it is.
8:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:50 Speaker 00 Yeah. Cause when you're a part of enterprise, people talk like when they talk to us about carrot, it's like, yeah, you know, we need air coverage. What does that even be like? We, like, air coverage means, oh, you just want a bunch of ads where you don't measure it. That's what air coverage is.
9:04 Speaker 01 Air coverage means you're spending money and you don't want to look at the ROI.
9:08 Speaker 00 Yep, that's what it is. And that's how they like to talk. And there's a lot of enterprise-y language. You just have to know who you're talking to.
9:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:13 Speaker 00 Yeah. All right.
9:15 Speaker 01 One thing that I we we've changed on our end is we we stopped trying to sell. And and this has been going on for a few years because at least in the marketing realm, I think the economy has been bad for almost three years. Started around mid 2022. Um, so that was six months there, all of 2023, all of 2024. And we're almost in mid 2025, but we're a little bit off from that. So call it a little bit shy of three years. And, you know, we've gone more upstream over those three years. But what we found is even though we're getting more inquiries and they may be for larger amounts of money.
9:52 Speaker 01 We found that even though a lot of the deals are for a lot of uh more money, but that's mainly because we've been going more and more upstream. They're harder to close, though, in this environment. So what we found is getting in small to companies, like we try not to pitch. We still do pitch million plus dollar deals. Um, but there's a lot of times where we know big brands are reaching out to us and they just don't have the budget allocation that they used to. We just start doing smaller projects that are still profitable just to get in the door. And then we expand. And I would say a large chunk of our revenue these days is expansion. Versus just selling someone on a big contract. And the reason being is it's it's tougher in this environment to close bigger contracts out of the gate.
10:35 Speaker 00 Yeah, you have to take what you can get. And so not only do you have to know your audience, you have to know your environment too. But going back to knowing your audience, so we have a speaker that's coming up right before you. He's bringing out a Trump impersonator. So the the um, one of the the the team members came up to me and said, are you okay with that? What do you think my answer was?
10:50 Speaker 01 Sure.
10:52 Speaker 00 Now, my answer is sure because when you have a group of business operators, where do you think they mostly lean?
11:00 Speaker 01 Uh, this is Florida, so I would say right.
11:02 Speaker 00 Probably a middle to the right, right?
11:05 Speaker 01 In Florida, not in California.
11:06 Speaker 00 These people are coming from around the world.
11:08 Speaker 01 Oh, okay.
11:08 Speaker 00 Yeah. So most people, like, we're both in the middle, right?
11:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:12 Speaker 00 So I'd say middle to the right. And so in that case, I don't think it was gonna be offensive. So I was like, let's go for it, right? Because it might be really funny. We'll see what happens, right?
11:21 Speaker 01 Well, the impersonator could be making fun of him and it could be both sides in which the left can get a kick out of it and the right can get a kick out of it.
11:29 Speaker 00 And we'll see what happens there. But you know what I wanted to do? So you weren't here the other night, but we had a pre-speakers dinner. So we had a debate with someone at the table. And it was actually, I won't name names, but everyone was like a little flabbergasted by this. So do you think AI is? I kind of know what your answer is gonna be, but do you think AI is overhyped right now?
11:53 Speaker 01 Yes.
11:53 Speaker 00 Okay, I knew that was gonna be your answer. So we had a debate at the, so everyone at the table was like, oh, my God, like, you could do this and that. And the person couldn't justify it, right? Why do you think AI is overhyped right now?
12:06 Speaker 01 It can do a lot of cool things. It'll do even better things in the future. But when you look at how much time you have to spend to try to get a positive ROI? I'm not talking about from the efficiency standpoint of cutting costs. I'm talking about in, at least in marketing, to incrementally grow your traffic, your conversions. It is extremely hard and it doesn't work the way most people think, in which it's not a magic wand that you can wave. And all of a sudden, your marketing is performing a lot better.
12:33 Speaker 00 I actually agree with that. Frictionless Growth Marketing, hosted by Sonya Thompson, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Frictionless Growth Marketing, hosted by Sonya Thompson, shows how modern brands grow by removing the friction in their marketing and customer experience that pushes customers away every single day, often without leaders even realizing it. Each episode delivers practical insights, real brand examples, and conversations with marketing leaders, showing brands how to win with the new rules of growth, identity-driven marketing, cultural relevance, and frictionless customer experiences. Listen to Frictionless Growth Marketing wherever you get your podcasts. Now, let me say where I think it's not overhyped. So remember, you know, when I get bit by mosquitoes, right? What happens? It becomes a giant bubble.
13:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:16 Speaker 00 Right?
13:17 Speaker 01 And you have a pen.
13:18 Speaker 00 I do have a pen. It's a heat pen. But so I use ChatGPT for this. Well, so I have this thing after the COVID vaccine called the Skeeter syndrome. What do you believe vaccine, whatever? Let's leave that aside. But I had this thing called Skeeter syndrome where I get bit by mosquito. It becomes a giant like pus filled ball. It hurts like hell. Right? Now, I went to ChatGPT because I did the pen before. It didn't work, right? I did all these other treatments. Didn't work. ChatGPT is like, no, you have to take Zyrtec and you have to rub like cortisone on it. And then you don't rub it with a heat pen. You rub it with an ice cube. So I did that this morning and it has prevented it from becoming a giant ball. And so I'm like, is AI overhyped? I'm like, in that case, no. And then my eyes hurt like hell. If I work from like, I'm on the screen from like seven AM staring at a screen until like 5:00 PM direct. My eyes hurt like hell, right?
14:03 Speaker 00 Not when I'm at home, though, for whatever reason. But then AI helped me find a solution. It's like, oh, you got to use this Bruter thing. And you got to go to the doctor and get this lippy flow. And it's like, I wouldn't have known any of that stuff, right? And so with those two things, those are like personal things solving my issues. And even for a loved one, um, right now, I actually helped her find a solution that was natural. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that one.
14:23 Speaker 01 I took a screenshot.
14:24 Speaker 00 You took a picture of it.
14:25 Speaker 01 Of your eye thing.
14:26 Speaker 00 He took a picture of my eye thing that I posted the stories.
14:28 Speaker 01 I thought it was great. I was like, okay, if I, if I have, because sometimes my eyes hurt or they're dry. I'm like, I'll just ask Eric because I didn't watch the whole video.
14:35 Speaker 00 So we have myobian gland syndrome, meaning that our eyes, when we get older, do you have Lasik?
14:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:42 Speaker 00 Okay, so after, how long have you had it for?
14:44 Speaker 01 Almost 10 years.
14:45 Speaker 00 Okay, exactly. Exactly at 10 years, um, your lipids don't work correctly. And so what happens is you're, you're, you have dry, um, your tears don't, um, they evaporate too quickly. So it becomes really dry eye and then it starts to hurt like hell. That's why that's a, that's a temporary solution. So the thing I found using ChatGPT is you microwave it. It's like these little eye patch things with water in it. And then it heats your eyes for eight minutes, then you're good. But it's temporary. You still have to go to an eye doctor and do a lippy flow and that will solve the problem. But that came from ChatGPT.
15:16 Speaker 01 I think AI is amazing for research. It's much better than what we're used to from traditional search engines. The reason being is they truly understand what the document is talking about. And they look at a lot of documents on the web and it helps you just diagnose the problem and gives you suggestions. I don't think it always gives you accurate answers. But I think on the research end, for most industries, AI is great. Where I think AI is failing that. Everyone overhypes is that it can do all the jobs and tasks way better than humans. And I think that is so off. Like, we just did analysis of AI versus humans for lead scoring.
15:58 Speaker 01 And I'll pull up the stat on this because straight up someone sent it to me on my end. When you look at this, AI did lead scoring of eighty-three percent versus humans at sixty-eight percent. And this was over nine thousand, I don't know how many leads it was. Oh, nine thousand, seven hundred and two leads. And it's obvious why AI can do lead scoring better because it can look at a lot of data points. But our conclusion from it wasn't that AI is better than humans. It was that you need both because where AI really fails is humans tend to lie when they fill in form fields in marketing. Like, if you ask someone what your budget is, a lot of people don't really say their true budget.
16:39 Speaker 00 A lot of times, they don't know either.
16:41 Speaker 01 That's correct. So when people lie, what we found is humans outperform AI way more to find those leads and qualify them than AI does. But when you use a combination of both, that is the winning combination. And the reason being is just more efficient. You do a better job on all your leads and the ones that are fake, the humans, of course, outperform AI.
17:05 Speaker 00 So I think we're kind of saying the same thing in different ways. The way he said it was like, basically, there's no benefit right now. The way I see it is that I don't think it's overhyped right now. The things we can do now, I wasn't able to do like two, three years ago. And so with Cursor, when I actually asked Sean in the back of the room, I was like, how much faster are we now with Cursor? He's like, ten times faster. Our developers, right? The fact now that if I can open up Manus and it'll create a bunch of high-intent, long-tail keyword phrases, and it'll scan my blog from the writer guidelines and it'll write high-quality content at ninety, ninety-five percent there within thirty minutes. Or for my slides, when I didn't want to wait for designers, I had a stock image that was like a robot with an arm. I went to ChatGPT Images, I was like, make it into a robot, did it, right? So I'm like, I didn't have these superpowers two years ago, and I have them now.
17:50 Speaker 00 And so I think it's going to get even crazier. But to your point, it's not as good as. Where we think it's going to be in the future. So that's why I say we're saying the same thing. But we also have different ways of looking at things too.
18:00 Speaker 01 Yeah, and I still think in today's world, AI has been great for us. And you can use it for business efficiencies. And you can use it to try to help you solve problems. It's hard to use it to directly create an impact on your revenue growth. You look at Klarna. Klarna backtracked on getting rid of a lot of their team and just replacing it with AI. And we've seen that with a lot of companies. It's just not there yet. Will it be there in the future? Good chance. No one knows for certain, but I think the chances are it'll be better. Or I'm highly certain that'll be better than what it is today. How far it gets? Time will tell.
18:34 Speaker 00 Dude, so you're gonna, you're gonna be talking in like maybe an hour or so. Okay, so Neil's gonna be on stage an hour. So I already went today. So do we want to give a preview of what you're gonna talk about? And I can talk about what I talked about as well. I think that might be a little helpful. So I mostly talked about my, the premise of my talk was around how we can actually drive efficiencies with AI. Because I don't want this like pie in the sky thing, like everyone's a business operator here. So I'm like, okay, how do we drive more cost efficiencies? Or how do we drive more output using AI? And that, that's the premise of my talk. And I look at AI right now as DIY, DWI, and DFI. So do it yourself, done with you, and done for you. And so one example, I went through like a bunch of different things.
19:16 Speaker 00 But I look at ChatGPT images as done, done, do it yourself. You have to go back and forth. You have to help edit it. You have to keep prompting it quite a bit. Now, done with you, more towards done with you is like Replit. If you want to prompt, and maybe you want to make an app. Maybe if you want to copy Neil's website, I can take a screenshot of it and then show my writer, my, my, my brand guidelines. And it'll make, make the like merge it together and it'll deploy it for me. That's Replit, but it still goes back and forth quite a bit. And then DWI, you can stop me wherever, but DWI is done with you. Where we created these agentic workflows using Clickflow. So we'll find internal links that make sense on your site. We will create high quality content. We will consolidate, update, delete. We'll do a lot of the rote SEO, traditional SEO tasks. But you still need a human in loop there. Now, more towards done with you. I did this the other night. So for dinner, we had 11 people originally for dinner.
20:01 Speaker 00 I used Gen Spark to make a phone call to that restaurant. And it changed the reservation from 11 to seven people. Because I was just sitting on my bed working and I didn't want to do it.
20:10 Speaker 01 Ah.
20:11 Speaker 00 Yeah, Jen Spark that AI. It's a China AI again.
20:13 Speaker 01 Do you know what I do when I need a modified reservation?
20:15 Speaker 00 You go to your assistant?
20:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:17 Speaker 00 Exactly.
20:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, text.
20:18 Speaker 00 Yeah, but see, see, that's like, I'm just like, if a robot can just do it. And I looked at the chat transcript. I was like, oh, I did a great job.
20:24 Speaker 01 I usually don't have to go to my assistant. They just know in advance and they do it for me.
20:27 Speaker 00 Yeah, well, not everybody can read your mind, you know, so.
20:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:32 Speaker 00 But isn't it? I mean, it's so anyway, that's.
20:34 Speaker 01 Assistants can read your mind. Close enough.
20:37 Speaker 00 The greatest employees of any kind can read your mind.
20:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:41 Speaker 00 Yeah. Um, but that, I mean, that's the high level of my talk. I, I, I went through a button. I'll probably post this to my YouTube too. You, I imagine you'll probably post your YouTube.
20:49 Speaker 01 You, you, yeah, but you, you missed out on the best part. So when Eric was giving a presentation, everyone was taking a picture of a chart. And he's like, oh, yeah. This is just some random chart printed by AI.
21:00 Speaker 00 Oh, so, okay. I generated, I used Manus actually to generate a chart that shows like the costly features. It's like eighty percent from SUV, eighty percent for images, whatever. Like, it looks amazing, right? And I shared it and I knew people were gonna take pictures. So I let them take pictures. I was like, yeah, take pictures, guys. Take pictures. Yeah, it's not a real chart. And then I went to the next slide and I ended the thing. Yeah.
21:21 Speaker 01 Yeah, so I'm talking about my journey on how I leverage both my personal brand, built a corporate brand from it. Um, and scaled up my own business and what people can learn from it. So I'm going to be discussing how I build a personal brand. My journey all the way from my very first blog that I ever created, um, all the way to my latest blog where I'm creating content. To the journey on how we eventually migrated to enterprise, um, to how we leverage that to grow our agency. We share some of our revenue numbers for the first three years. Although my teams use this slide in the same, uh, over and over again. And every single time I, I told them, I don't know why they don't correct it.
22:00 Speaker 01 On half the side, it'll be like year three, thirty three point something in million in revenue. And then on the other side, they'll be like thirty million. I'm like, no, it can't be thirty. No one ever has even revenue numbers like that. Um, but it's just a typo that they need to fix. But nonetheless, my personal brands never generated more than 10 million a year. Uh, and then we really started scaling up after 30 because we had a COVID bump. So the COVID bump really caused our business to just explode. Um, where we started, you know, doubling and more than doubling with really large numbers. Uh, and I wouldn't say a lot of that is great execution. I really genuinely believe a lot of that was just COVID.
22:41 Speaker 00 All right, guys, so that is it for today. Please don't forget to rate, view, subscribe. Let us know what you think about this episode where we recruited, recorded with the DJI Osmo. I set this up myself. We've got another camera over there. So that being said, we'll see you tomorrow.
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