How Piggybacking on Big Brands Drives Sales + Is Liquid Death’s Hype Killing Its Brand?

In this episode #3029, Eric Siu and Neil Patel discuss how brands can leverage popular culture in marketing, drawing lessons from companies like Nintendo and Liquid Death. They highlight the risks of expanding product lines, the influence of investor pressure, and the ongoing challenge for businesses to stay relevant in competitive markets. TIME-STAMPED SHOW NOTES (00:00) The Power of Popularity in Marketing (03:39) Brand Evolution and Market Positioning (07:17) The Risks of Expanding Product Lines (11:05) Investor Pressure and Business Growth (15:32) The Challenge of Staying Relevant To suggest a topic, go to https://www.marketingschool.io. For more content from Eric and Neil, check out Eric’s Leveling Up with Eric Siu YouTube channel and Neil’s Neil Patel YouTube channel. Connect with Us: Single Grain << Eric's ad agency NP Digital << Neil’s ad agency X @neilpatel, @ericosiu Instagram @neilpatel, @ericosiu Drop Us a Review If You Enjoyed the Episode!

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:35Speaker 01

  Dude, did you end up seeing, uh, what was it called? The Mario Kart and is it Dallett, Vietnam?

• 0:42Speaker 00

  No.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  Dude, I have a YouTube clip of it. It's on the list somewhere. I don't know if I end up putting, uh, where is it? Uh, there you go. Uh, how tying your product or service to something well-known is a great way to get more success? Click on the link and share your screen.

• 0:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, let me share my screen. Okay, hold on, hold on. Oh, this is funny. Oh, I have seen this. Okay, I'm gonna share my screen and, um, do I need the audio on or no audio?

• 1:06Speaker 01

  You could or no, it doesn't make a difference, so people can see.

• 1:09Speaker 00

  Okay, I'm gonna share. I'm gonna turn the audio on too, guys. Okay, here we go.

• 1:43Speaker 00

  Okay, so those that you-

• 1:43Speaker 01

  People get hurt, like Mario Kart.

• 1:45Speaker 00

  Those of you that didn't see this, basically, it's like a real-life Mario Kart where they're going down a track. Um, and it looks, it looks fun, but it looks pretty dangerous, so do you wanna, this is in Vietnam, right?

• 1:55Speaker 01

  This is in Vietnam, and what's interesting on this is, it's like, if you do something that's tied to something that's really popular, like Mario Kart, you can do well. And the reason I put this in here is- Yesterday I was eating dinner with my kids and my wife and kids made this chicken fajita wrap or something like that. And I was like-

• 2:15Speaker 00

  Emma made it?

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Uh, my kids and what, yeah, Emma, Michelle. And I was like, wha- what the heck is this? And they're like, it's a Peppa pig. Have you heard of Peppa pig?

• 2:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  It's a Peppa pig dinner. And you know, it comes two times a week to your house and you cook together. And I'm like, what is this? How to do it? Peppa pig? It's just fajitas. But they tied it in to something that kids love or family loves. And it becomes popular. And then all of a sudden, they're doing tons of revenue.

• 2:43Speaker 00

  Do you know how how many people got injured? Because this seems like a liability, man.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  So if you scroll up, uh, one of the first clips I saw, everyone was getting injured. Some of them are are on the side of the hill. And I'm like, uh, well, share your screenplay that. It's hilarious. But I hope no one got hurt.

• 3:01Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on. All right, here we go, here we go.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Dude, oh, he felt hurt.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Oh. But yeah, they're just getting hurt, like-

• 3:38Speaker 00

  But the the other thing too is when you, when people share these clips, they go viral because it's it's so funny.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Dude, the one on X that I saw, I think it was of people getting hurt, like 16 million views or something crazy like that.

• 3:51Speaker 00

  By the way, go, okay, we go back to Hormozzi for a second. So the fact that he had the Guinness World Record and he had a $6,000 bundle. So there's people that are praising him on one side and there's people giving away the books or giving away the code, right? But then you also spawn a ton of haters too. Because all of a sudden, they're like, people, because he used to make in his videos, like, I have nothing to sell you, right? And then someone put like, um, Alex from Ozi, I have nothing to sell you. And then Alex from Ozi, like a screenshot of $6,000 bundle, like- Also Alex from Ozzy, right? So um you're you're for sure you're gonna get hate and then you're gonna get people praising you and then you're gonna get people sharing the codes and so it has a viral effect to it. And I I think he was pretty thoughtful about that, too. He kind of knew what he was gonna get. Um but yeah, anyway, but and this is the same thing, too. Like it it's it's exciting to share this like it it.

• 4:36Speaker 00

  People like controversy. People like things that are that are people like sharing things that make them look good, too, in some way, shape or form, like whether it's funny or something like that. So yeah.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you're always gonna get hate. It doesn't matter what kind of business you're in. You could be OpenAI. He gets Sam Altman gets hate from Elon Musk. Elon Musk gets hate from Sam Altman and they'll throw jabs at each other on X or whatever platform, right? But this is just normal. This is what happens in business. Um and it doesn't matter what kind of marketing campaigns you're doing. Some people are gonna love you. Some people are gonna hate you, but it actually causes your name and messaging to get out there even more.

• 5:10Speaker 00

  Dude, speaking of brand, let's talk about brand for a second. We just talked about Mario Kart. Mario Kart to me, Mario was a brand, right? Um but this is interesting because we we can kind of I can weave this in with Nintendo, too. So do you know what what type of company Nintendo was when it first started?

• 5:25Speaker 01

  No, but I know they ended up owning the Seattle Mariners. They bought a baseball team.

• 5:29Speaker 00

  Okay, but we're talking about the beginning. So the beginning deal was they they were a trading card company. So they were a long time like sure, they started in gaming, but a very long time ago, they were a trading card company and they just continue to change over time, right? And they evolved their brand. Okay, now Liquid Death, which I believe um has sold five hundred million or something like that. So Liquid Death, just so everyone doesn't know, uh that for people that don't know, it's um it's like an edgy water brand. It's like a can of water, basically, right? And um so Nick Shackelford.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Or let's go a little bit more in depth. It's a can of water that Eric is saying, but they have some cool graphics like like, oh, like Liquid Death, like, you know, I don't know what they're trying to messaging. They're trying to convey. I've never drank a can, but it tastes just like any other water. The only difference is the marketing on how it's like cool or crazy. You know, it's Eric showing an image right here as well of it.

• 6:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, so it's basically a um character. The head is Liquid Death and it's like a buff character with an axe and then the the I guess. The chest is like eyeballs, but it's like it's like different marketing, right? And so here's the thing to what Neil said, Liquid Death, the idea came, came 2009, came from a warped tour, okay? 2017 trademark filed, 2019, they came out as the anti-water. And then 2020, they came out sparkling water. Okay, so that's fine. Okay, it's still water, right? 2021 flavored water, okay? 2022 hydration package, it's like, okay, well, they're kind of expanding out a little more. And then 2023, energy drinks, right?

• 7:03Speaker 00

  And so he's Nick Shackelford's argument is this is textbook dilution because when you know, when they're doing 100 million, there's like, we need to expand our TAM, right? And then 500 million, let's hire that CPG exec from Pepsi. So meanwhile, his argument is Red Bull, same product for 40 years, same message, same positioning, 11 billion in revenue. So Liquid Death had authentic authenticity in a sea of sameness. They traded it for shelf space, which is also interesting because yesterday we have a mutual, mutual friend, Kat Cole, CEO of AG1. So they just came out with like, you know, they do like vitamin, vitamin packets, right? Basically, and you can put in your water, it's like green, green juice ish, right?

• 7:44Speaker 00

  But they just came out with like a sleep packet or a sleep powder yesterday, too. And so what is your take on this overall?

• 7:51Speaker 01

  My take overall is I think Liquid Death's water market was big enough and they should have just stayed with water. That doesn't mean that the business would have made more money by just staying in water. Red Bull energy drink, you know, a lot of it is luck, timing, things that aren't as controllable. Liquid Death is a little bit different because you're going into a very saturated market. When Red Bull came out with their energy drink, it wasn't a very saturated market or anything like that. It was a much smaller market, of course. Water is a massive market and the reason I would have just stuck with water, it was a great brand, great product. I get you can introduce sparkling water a little bit here and there, but I would have never expanded a water company into energy drinks.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Again, I'm not saying what my recommendation would have made him more money. I think my recommendation would have made him less money, but I think you would have had a company with a much more low following, fast forward 10, 15 years, if you just stuck with one product.

• 8:50Speaker 00

  You know, you look at, let's use Ferrari as an example. All they stuck with was, was just cars, amazing cars. You look at Nintendo, all they stuck with was gaming. Sure, they started with trading cards, but they stuck with gaming the whole time. Okay, just making fun games for people. Okay. And you look at Red Bull, yeah, all he stuck with was, was Red Bull. And, uh, you know, you look at Steve Ballmer, Steve Ballmer stuck with Microsoft stock the whole time, right? So, so, um, and Microsoft has stuck with software, right? And so, um, in a lot of these cases, if you kind of just stick with it and stay in your area, there's a lot to expand into. I think they're expanded, they're expanding into areas that maybe don't make as much sense with the original mission. Um, so I think, I think sparkling water is fine. I think hydration packets are probably fine too.

• 9:35Speaker 00

  But I think energy drinks, that's probably getting a little out of it and you're gonna be out of your element.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then you're competing against Red Bull and Monster and all these other players. I'm not saying Liquid Death can't do well. Again, they probably will make more money doing all this stuff. But if I own the company and I didn't have investors, I think that's a key here. Liquid Death has to do a lot of this stuff because their own largely, I think they've raised a lot of money, right? Do you know how much they raised?

• 10:01Speaker 00

  Liquid Death's funding, I'm looking at it.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  I know Science, the incubator in LA, Mike Jones and Peter Pham, uh, are part owners in it.

• 10:11Speaker 00

  So it looks like they've closed multiple rounds. Um, one of the latest rounds was 70 million, valuing the brand at 700 million. This is in 2022. Um, yeah.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  So they close a lot of rounds and they have investors. So when you have investors, you have to have growth at all costs. Eric and I don't have investors and I was talking to, um, someone who works at a massive financial organization where they manage over a trillion dollars, not a million, not a billion, literally over a trillion dollars. And this person writes checks into startups, their division, they're in private equity of that trillion plus dollar asset management. And this person writes checks in the hundreds of millions, uh, sometimes more, you know, they can write a half a billion, they can write a billion. They have a lot of cash, right? So money's not the issue. And, um, when I was talking with them and we were talking about my own company.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  I was like, my growth slowed down a lot. We've expanded international, but I think we've made the right moves. And I was chilling at the pool at that time and my kids were swimming. So we were talking and he's just like, yeah, you're lucky you have no investors or else you would have the pressure for a minimum of, you know, 20, 30, 40% growth a year with good margins and good unit economics. I'm like, yeah, we're profitable. We have good unit economics. I'm like, yeah, I'm here to chill in at the pool because I don't have investors and I can do whatever I want, when I want. Now, of course, every one of my customers is in theory a boss of mine. But we of course try to satisfy our customers and go above and beyond. But Liquid Web has outside shareholders, so they have pressure to grow.

• 11:51Speaker 00

  Liquid Death, Liquid Death. Liquid Death, not Liquid Web. Liquid Web's a different company. Yeah. But Liquid Death, just so you, just to give a sense for how much they raised. So they raised 1.6 million seed funding. So I guess Peter did well and then his co-founder. And then nine million in series A, that was February 2020, and then 23 million in series B. And then another series C, that was for 75 million. And then they raised another 70 million or so, and then another 67. Frictionless Growth Marketing hosted by Sonya Thompson is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.

• 12:33Speaker 00

  Frictionless Growth Marketing hosted by Sonya Thompson shows how modern brands grow by removing the friction in their marketing and customer experience that pushes customers away every single day, often without leaders even realizing it. Each episode delivers practical insights, real brand examples, and conversations with marketing leaders, showing brands how to win with the new rules of growth, identity-driven marketing, cultural relevance, and frictionless customer experiences. Listen to Frictionless Growth Marketing wherever you get your podcasts.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Wow, so they raised more than a few hundred million bucks?

• 13:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, valuation is 1.4 billion as of 2024. Liquid Death also reported 263 million in retail sales for 2023.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 13:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  Never drink above it. I tend to stick with Aqua Pana.

• 13:17Speaker 00

  I have. By the way, I I bought um, I I don't ever told you I I I went on Amazon. You should buy this too. So I I bought a water tester. So I just stick it in everything. I'll still like, I'll I'll have a cup and I'll just go around. Fill it up with shower water. I'll stick it in there. I'll stick it in the sink water. I'll stick it in there. And then the Korean filter I have is um, so you want your water, I think I told you this, but you want the water to be under 50. It was 17, but when I put it under a sink, it's like 250. And when I put it under the shower, it's like 200 or so. And I have a filter for my shower too. So good, good for you to know. You should try it too.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  What does a filter look like? Is it a small device?

• 13:50Speaker 00

  Um, you mean the the tester?

• 13:52Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 13:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's a small device. It's like a little like, it's like almost like a thermometer that you put in your mouth. Yeah, you just put it in the water and you test it.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  Remember when we went to Air One, you were gonna take that bottle home and do a test on the?

• 14:01Speaker 00

  I did, I did. It was 200. It was high.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  So Air One water is not as good as they're saying?

• 14:06Speaker 00

  Um, it was a different brand of water. It was a different, we we brought a different brand and we didn't buy the Air One one, remember? Because Air One was out. Um, and so Air One, I'll test it next time. And I actually have Air One water coming at 11:30, so I'll I'll let you know.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Or how about like Aqua Pana? Have you tested Aqua Pana in it?

• 14:22Speaker 00

  I don't have Aqua Pana at home, but I'll I'll test it next time. I'll I'll bring it when we record next time in person, when you have a microphone.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  I don't have, yeah, I actually have Aqua Pana in my house.

• 14:31Speaker 00

  200 is actually okay to drink, I think. Um, but there's particles and stuff in there, but 17 is like amazing. So, yeah. This is why, guys, you need a reverse osmosis filter and then have some nutrients being piped back into it. And then you're good.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  I'm the opposite. And I take a shower, I just open my mouth if I'm thirsty and just drink out of the shower.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  You really?

• 14:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:49Speaker 00

  I've never done that in my life. Um.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Or Buffy's McDonald's hamburgers and he's probably gonna live longer than that. Who's that guy with the biomarkers, the Brian?

• 14:57Speaker 00

  Oh, Brian Johnson? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Brian Johnson does not look healthy, by the way.

• 15:03Speaker 00

  By the way, I'll I'll, you know what I'll say? Um, I think for Brian Johnson, it's hard to keep the marketing up. Because I think he had a lot of reach like a year or two ago. I don't think he has as much reach anymore. And now that he's kind of moved into selling stuff, um, I think it's uh, I don't know. This is a reinforcement that to be in the spotlight today, if you wanted to be like Oprah back in the eighties or so, you can be a celebrity for a long time. Now, because the algorithms are, it's so merit based, that people are very up and down, up and down, up and down, right? You might appear for a little bit, and then you become irrelevant like the next day. So it's hard to be a celebrity today, I think.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  Dude, you know, I know someone who interviewed with him.

• 15:40Speaker 00

  Who?

• 15:41Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna say their name.

• 15:42Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, sorry, not who, but what happened is more of what I asked.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  So the interview was for a role, a chief of staff, okay? But it was more like a personal assistant slash housekeeper, but they called it a chief of staff.

• 15:55Speaker 00

  A housekeeper?

• 15:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, you would have to do dishes and clean and all this, right? And it was really weird. The person needed a job. They chose not to take a job when they could have accepted it. Because it was stuff like, you can't sue me, you know, I'm gonna talk about stuff that you can't talk about. I'm gonna be naked sometimes, you're gonna see me with erections out, and you had to be okay with it. And it was just starting getting really awkward like that, and they were all just like, peace, I'm out. You know, like, I don't need more of the interview, I'm not here to go get a job with you. And I thought that was awkward, like, someone saying, hey, you're gonna work for me, but you're gonna see me naked and with erections and all this kind of stuff. And I was just like,

• 16:41Speaker 01

  I don't care how much they're paying, I would never want my kid to work in that kind of environment.

• 16:46Speaker 00

  You know, I actually referred someone to work over there too, and same, same, not, I don't think it was the same situation as this, but this person got offered a job and decided not to take it. I didn't ask why, but maybe this is why. But, you know, I met him, I did a pod with him, but I just think, my perspective is, it's very hard to stay relevant forever. And the thing is, it's funny, because he posts his biomarkers a lot, but then there's like, people competing with him on his biomarkers now, and people say, hey, look, these are my biomarkers and they crush yours, and I don't think I have the best biomarkers in the world. So it's like, it's, if you're gonna say you're the best, you better be able to kind of back it up. And when I look at his biomarkers, a lot of mine are better than his too. And so I don't think you can use that as good marketing, because those people that kind of know a little bit more,

• 17:31Speaker 00

  they're gonna come out and disprove you, and then all of a sudden you just look bad, right? And so again, I respect what he's built and what he's done, but I just think it's hard to stay relevant, especially with the health and fitness stuff. And so, you know, that's what it is.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  But here's some crazy stuff from the interview, right? Hey, I drink this kind of olive oil, right? I'm I'm acting like if I'm Brian. And I wasn't there, so maybe I'm getting some misinformation. Uh, that's my disclaimer. But he's just like, I drink this kind of olive oil, can't travel with it. So you need to figure out how to get it to wherever I am, right? And I need this olive oil and it has to be done this way and it has to go wherever I'm traveling. You need to figure out how to get it for me. But it was just like a lot of random stuff like that. And then another one was, oh, you need to organize all my pills and all this kind of stuff. You know, it takes like roughly two hundred and fifty supplements and pills a day.

• 18:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, he didn't, uh, that's a lot more than when I first asked him.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  So when you look at like two fifty, and again, I could be getting bad secondhand information. Um, but that must be hard on your kidneys or liver or whatever it is. And like, when you look at him, like, I respect live your life. But I actually don't think what he's doing, like nose sun and all this is like a great way to live. But, you know, to each their own.

• 18:49Speaker 00

  The sun is actually really important. So this is not a health podcast, guys, but like this. You you need the sun to reset your circadian rhythm and you need the sun for vitamin D and a whole host of other things. Um, so, um, he he does something that Asian moms do. They they walk out in the middle of the day with umbrellas. Because Asian Asian moms like to protect their skin and everything.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Visors, wear the visors.

• 19:08Speaker 00

  The Asian mom visors. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that is it for today, guys, and we'll see you tomorrow.