Founder Who Built 8 Billion Dollar Companies - the CEO Should Be in Everything

In this episode, Neil and Eric discuss why founders and CEOs must stay hands-on across every part of their business. Drawing from Brad Jacobs’ leadership style and examples from Jensen Huang and Elon Musk, they explain how direct involvement builds clarity, culture, and control. The duo also explores the “fruit fly” mindset—why hovering everywhere can be both a strength and a weakness—and how consistent leadership visibility, like speaking at All Hands meetings, can drive alignment and motivation. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Brad Jacobs: Hands-on leadership (01:23) Founder involvement across functions (06:01) The power of All Hands visibility (08:22) Jensen Huang, Elon Musk, and QDSSA (13:45) Repeating the company vision 𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟 Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. LEARN MORE ABOUT THE HOSTS Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel FREE RESOURCES Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/ Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:42Speaker 01

  That's the waste management guy, right?

• 0:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, so he's done like eight different things and uh...

• 0:46Speaker 01

  He tends to acquire the companies.

• 0:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, he tends to buy and like he tends to give a lot of equity and hire like an amazing management team. And then he kind of just moves on to the next thing. But it was interesting because I was listening to a podcast he was on. And he said that the CEO should be in everything, like they're like basically kind of what we talked about. Like the fact that you think you can just hire a CEO and then just let them do their thing. It's not the reality because they're not going to have the same vision that you have, right? And ultimately, it's got to be you in the deep. The more details you're involved, for example, for you, okay? You might not be managing people, but you're in finance, okay? You're in, you're in sales for the big deals.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  But I don't go to the meetings, like they had a meeting in Chicago and one in Europe where they're going all the finances.

• 1:26Speaker 00

  Okay, get my point here, right? So, so, so, okay. We, when we talk on this podcast, it's like, okay, you're mostly involved with like, you know, driving traffic or strategy stuff or like, you know, that type of stuff, right? But there's a lot more that goes into it, okay? You're going to tell me you're not involved with finance, you're not going to tell me.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  No, I am. I just don't, I don't get involved in everything. And what I mean by that is I won't go to all the meetings. But even with finance, they had their meetings and I'll get the recap and I'll tell them what I want changed or adjusted or what I think is off. But I don't have the time to go fly all the way to Europe to just meet with each country lead and be like, all right, what's the budgeting for next year?

• 2:02Speaker 00

  So watch, you're okay, so we talk, you're involved with strategy, you're involved with like, you know, driving traffic, right? What else are you involved with? Just very high level.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  I'm involved in anything that I'm involved with most things. I was I did a client pitch earlier this week. Uh, I follow up with the sales team to see if they followed up on what the client thought.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  I didn't get the answer, so I texted the potential client directly.

• 2:30Speaker 00

  Wow, okay. I bet your team loved that.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  I screenshotted it. I'm like, they love the presentation. I'm like, here you go.

• 2:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  No joke, I just did it myself. Um, I'm involved with 2026 revenue forecasting. I don't forecast. I just question their forecast and try to understand what their logic is.

• 2:47Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  Uh, 2026 profitability, so finance. I'm involved with reviewing M and A deals. I'm involved with product launches. Today, I just uh tested the new version of Answer the Public. Technically, I've been testing it every week, but I I screenshot a lot of bugs and send it to my team on WhatsApp.

• 3:03Speaker 00

  Product, user testing, CRO on your website.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  If I get a customer complaint, I follow up with my team on what's happening.

• 3:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Like, I got a customer complaint the other day from someone who's paying our India team. And they're asking for all this stuff. I added in the person who runs India. And she sent it to a team. I followed up if they're happy.

• 3:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  And she's just like, Neil, this was closed before I was in here. They're paying us only a few hundred dollars a month. And they're expecting all this stuff, which by the way, is not profitable.

• 3:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  And then I followed up with them and they said they're happier now and look at all the results.

• 3:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Although it costs us a lot of money. When I say costs us, we made way less revenue than what we spent. But at the end of the day, is that the client's fault? No, that's our fault.

• 3:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  So then I have to fix this stuff.

• 3:56Speaker 00

  You got, okay, you got, you got product stuff, you got customer success stuff, you got sales stuff as well, you got finance stuff too. You got, uh, what else, what else you got? We're talking M and A stuff too, okay? We, projections, what else you have?

• 4:08Speaker 01

  Overall brand, like the client example I gave is you can't just fire the client. That's our fault. You still got to make sure people are happy. Cause if people aren't happy, what's gonna happen?

• 4:17Speaker 00

  Reputation.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Your reputation is gonna be screwed, right?

• 4:21Speaker 01

  Content, I'm gonna go film content.

• 4:23Speaker 00

  We're literally filming content right now. He's gonna go film content later. You gotta do a webinar every two weeks as well. Okay, gotta fly around, speak at conferences, networking.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  I'm going to dinner today to meet a lot of entrepreneurs who are successful.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  Build up more relationships. Do I wanna do it? No?

• 4:37Speaker 00

  Face of the company, right? So my point of saying all this is that there's a lot more like it's very nice to say, oh, you can delegate all these things. But the reality is even though you have other people responsible, you're still jumping around and I'm doing the same thing too. And do we necessarily like jumping around? I don't know. Like I've been like my CEO told me, you're like a, you're like a fruit fly. You're like, you just keep like hovering around.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Dude, that's a great analogy.

• 4:58Speaker 00

  I'm like, yeah, I totally do hover around. I was like, I was like, you know, I told you yesterday, I was like, you know, I would like to be a fruit fly that hovers around the bigger poop, not the small poop. You know what I mean? Like you, like you just get to bigger and bigger poop as you go. It's just like the different like Honda Civic and then you go to like a Toyota Camry, you just get higher like bigger problems, right? So yeah, absolutely where fruit flies.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Technically, you want smaller and smaller poop.

• 5:19Speaker 00

  I want big poop.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  No, because I, I know what you're saying, but the, but the Mercedes Benz, thank you. The Mercedes Benz is not a bigger poop. It's a smaller poop. The Honda Civic is a bigger poop.

• 5:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's true. That's true.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  You just have to reverse it.

• 5:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  You want smaller and smaller pieces of poop over time.

• 5:34Speaker 00

  But my point is like, do you agree with what Brad is saying there? The CEO should be involved in everything, right? It's, it's like you're, okay, maybe that's the wrong way. The founder should be involved in everything.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  So I think about Amplitude. They launched a free tool. You and I both tested it.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  At nighttime, I was sending my team screenshots of it and breaking down what they do better than us and what we do better than them and what we, where we need to improve. Right? And a lot of us were messing. This wasn't like a, you know, 3pm in the day. This is like a 6, 7pm my time for some of my other team members. It was like 11pm for them.

• 6:11Speaker 00

  Who's gonna do it if you don't do it?

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, they're all messaging us back and forth. Like even for them, when it was like 11pm, they're still messaging back and forth.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  When he says the founder, CEO, whatever you wanna call it, should be involved in everything.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  They shouldn't because it should run without their involvement in everything. But it's more so they have to, or else it doesn't work well or grow well.

• 6:34Speaker 00

  Yes. It's not like we want to, but we have to. Yes. That's a better way to put it. Yeah. Okay.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Cause I don't want to. Do you want to?

• 6:41Speaker 00

  No, no. It like, I don't want to be a fruit fly. But I kind of enjoy being a fruit fly sometimes.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Sometimes it is fun.

• 6:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  But I just look at it overall as if I-

• 6:51Speaker 00

  It does drive chaos with the team too. Like when we're just hovering around sometimes and we hover around too much. It's like, it does drive chaos and I get it. But at the same time, it's a trade off. Like our greatest strength is also our greatest weakness too, right? If someone is over involved with everything, they also sometimes can, right? That can cause more problems too. So, okay, last thing I'll say here on this. So, um, Brian Halligan tweeted this. So basically this is the Jensen Hui.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Wait, before you get into it, can we go back to one thing?

• 7:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Do you guys do company all hand meetings?

• 7:21Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Are you leading them?

• 7:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Okay. So you're involved in that.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  Like, well, I'm like leading with the first five minutes of the story. Like I have to make a video on Friday saying, okay, here's where, here's how we're trending towards a vision. Here's what we're doing. Here's what we're changing. Here's the things I need to do better. Here's this, right? And then, so I need to be motivational on Fridays, like a coach, right? And then when I appear to do all hands, all hands, sometimes I'm a coach. Sometimes I'm a, hey, we need to do this better type of thing. Um, do I want to do that? No. Some, some, some of my team watches this too. No. So, yeah.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  We just had an all hands meeting today at 9:30 AM.

• 7:56Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  And-

• 7:57Speaker 00

  Oh, this is not your thing.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  No. I learned about it, I think it was yesterday, because my CEO was telling me how he's like creating a deck or something for the all hands. I didn't even know we had all hands. So then my co-founder Mike, my CEO is also named Mike, but my co-founder Mike's like, hey, you joining the all hands? It's starting 9:30. Here's a link if you're not, or if you want to. And then I'm like, I got a podcast from 9:30 to 10:30. I was able to make the podcast shorter, so I ended the podcast, call it like a 10:08.

• 8:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  So then I joined the all hands for 10 minutes, showed my face.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  But I already know what they're gonna cover. I looked at the all hands. I think they do different ones for different regions, um, cuz it's just time zone.

• 8:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  But when I joined, maybe three hundred and eighty something people, so I'm estimating here, but maybe roughly thirty percent of our staff were on it.

• 8:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Right?

• 8:49Speaker 00

  And you have, it's, it's global, so you don't have everyone in the world on, obviously.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it, it's, it's too hard cuz it's middle of the night for certain people.

• 8:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Um, but yeah, when I, when I look at that, like, that's some of the stuff that I'm not involved in. And there's countless examples of that in my organization.

• 9:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Where like, I'm not involved in every sales training. Um, but I am involved in all divisions. I'm just not involved in

• 9:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  every

• 9:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  single meeting or every little

• 9:20Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  minute detail.

• 9:22Speaker 00

  And your problem set changes over time as you continue to scale, right?

• 9:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:25Speaker 00

  The thing I would say, what, what I learned is, as much as, I don't think you're a fan of like, you know, I'll just speak for myself, like, having to do the all hands, right? Like, communicate the message and repeat the message.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  That's not me.

• 9:36Speaker 00

  You know why I'm not a fan of it? It's cuz I live with myself all the time. So I know what the message is in my head, right? But people don't know what the message is. And what I learned from my team, like, I, I heard this last year, it's like, Tate, we could really use more of those videos from you and the all hands. Cuz we wanna hear from you, cuz we don't know what you know. And cuz they're like, you see the entire battlefield. And I'm like, okay, that's fair. So I do it, I appear, and, um, you know, I try to communicate stories, cuz stories, they blow over well, right? Meaning that people absorb it more. So, um, I don't know what you say on those calls, but that's, that's my positioning now, and I think it does help. And I, I find that the best messages need to be repeated over time cuz people forget.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:13Speaker 00

  Yeah. So how do you do it? When you appeared for five, ten minutes, hey, guys?

• 10:17Speaker 01

  No, I didn't say anything.

• 10:18Speaker 00

  You did.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  I was on mute. Cuz people were presenting. So when we do our all hands,

• 10:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Uh, there's a deck, people make their versions of the slide, it all gets compiled together, and people present their part.

• 10:28Speaker 00

  I bet you people would like to hear from you.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree with you.

• 10:32Speaker 00

  You're just not gonna do it? I think you should do it.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  No, I could do it. I just didn't know.

• 10:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Until last, I was, when I was driving to LA, so call like around three o'clock.

• 10:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Is when I found out there was all hands today. And then when I found out the time today and I was given the invite, I already had something that was scheduled a week ago for a podcast interview and I already changed it on them once.

• 10:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  So I don't want to be the prick that changes on them twice.

• 10:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  Right? So then I was just like, but I did compromise. I got them to do a 30 minute podcast instead of an hour. And I didn't tell them, hey, we need to end this earlier. I just controlled the podcast pace, you know, and I know you know how to do this really well too, because we've done it so often. Where we can make it end because there's not much more to talk about.

• 11:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Because we can pick the talk tracks and the subjects and just make it so we have extra time or we can make it drag out. And I chose to make it end earlier so then that way I could go to the all hands.

• 11:29Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Show my face. People were talking. I didn't want to be the prick that interrupts, interrupts, interrupts them.

• 11:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  When they get a share of the highlights of their departments or their accomplishments or their team's accomplishments. So I didn't want to interrupt. I showed up for a little bit and I'll get the summary from either my co-founder or a few other people on the team. Or the CEO. But yeah, you're right. What makes me really feel like a prick? I was in Dallas for the high level of it.

• 11:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  So when I was there, uh, two people came up. They're high. They're like, oh, what's up? I was like, hey, what's your name? And they're like, oh, I'm so, so I'm like, oh, cool. What do you do? And they're like, I work for you. And I was like, oh, cool. I felt really bad then.

• 12:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  And then I was like, oh, how long? One was like four years.

• 12:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  The other one, I think was two years. Other people were also hitting me up, had to take some pictures. They came back to take pictures. Other people were trying to take pictures. So I was there for around an hour and two people's questions. Then I went around the conference to go try to find them, to try to get them coffee or something before my flight. I could not find them. I just felt like a piece of crap.

• 12:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Because I should try to know everyone in my company, but it's really hard at our scale, right? The moment you hit, I don't know what the number is, we're a thousand plus, call it, but the moment you hit, I don't know, maybe like four or 500 and your teams are spread all over and you have different divisions, maybe it starts getting harder, but a thousand plus for sure, I think it's really hard to know everyone on a first-name basis.

• 13:03Speaker 00

  No, dumb bar's number. You can really only know 150 people at a time.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Is that what it is?

• 13:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  But I just felt really bad and I'm like, okay, I need to go hang out with these people, buy them coffee and get to know them more.

• 13:15Speaker 00

  You know what I remember? Maybe this will motivate you to do the like 5-10 minute spiel each time you appear in All Hands. When I worked for W Promote, this is like 16, 17 years ago. Whenever we did All Hands each month, the CEO would speak and like everyone was listening intently because we wanted to know where we're going. And now I'm just recalling this now as I'm thinking about it. Because when my team told me this, I didn't think about, I didn't connect these two moments. I'm like, yeah, they do want to hear. And like even though you're not the CEO, technically you are the leader of the company, right? Not tech, you are the leader of the company. And so I think when they hear where they're going, it motivates them and excites them. And imagine all the other goodwill it creates. Other people talk about it, maybe they'll tell other people to join. So I think that that 5-10 minutes goes a long way if you do it. Frictionless Growth Marketing hosted by Sonya Thompson is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.

• 14:00Speaker 00

  Frictionless Growth Marketing hosted by Sonya Thompson shows how modern brands grow by removing the friction in their marketing and customer experience that pushes customers away every single day, often without leaders even realizing it. Each episode delivers practical insights, real brand examples and conversations with marketing leaders, showing brands how to win with the new rules of growth, identity-driven marketing, cultural relevance and frictionless customer experiences. Listen to Frictionless Growth Marketing wherever you get your podcasts.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  That's not the issue. I don't ever know when we have All Hands.

• 14:32Speaker 00

  That's your fault.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  That is my fault. And I think I know the reason. It's not like anyone's trying to cut me off.

• 14:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  I'm the only one not on Microsoft.

• 14:42Speaker 00

  That's also your fault.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we have like Outlook.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  I still use Gmail and I don't want to switch. So I don't have a corporate email address.

• 14:50Speaker 00

  I think this five minutes spent every month will make you more money. How about that?

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Or all all hands are not monthly.

• 14:55Speaker 00

  Oh, how how often?

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Global all hands or maybe a few times a year max?

• 14:59Speaker 00

  Oh dude, even better ROI.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, but they probably forget to tell me. Cause they bet you what ends up happening is an email just goes out saying it's a all hands to everyone on the corporate email. Now technically my domain's owned by the company, so I am on a corporate email, but I'm on Gmail when everyone else, when I mean everyone else, literally everyone else is on Outlook.

• 15:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  And there's a few people who have Gmail as well, but they have Gmail and Outlook.

• 15:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  For me, I'm just on Gmail.

• 15:30Speaker 00

  Guys, this is a Neil problem. You know who said, you know who said this, who who the this person said the storyteller is the most powerful person in the room who said this?

• 15:39Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 15:39Speaker 00

  Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs. So I I think when you do it, you can report back on how well it's worked because they they continue to want me to do it, even though I ask if I can stop doing it. They continue to ask me to do it. So anyway, I want to give you one more thing here. So did you know the Jensen Huang, the Nvidia CEO's trifecta, his success trifecta, his management style trifecta? You want to know what it is?

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Go for it. I know quite a bit about his management style already.

• 16:02Speaker 00

  Okay, these you probably know already, but one, most people don't know this, he doesn't do any one on ones with his his staff. Okay. Because they're already like high level, like they're all SVP VPs, right? He has 60 direct reports, so he doesn't believe in having a management layer. And the one that I like the most that people on my team for sure don't like is the criticize publicly trifecta. So this is known as, sure, you praise publicly, but you also criticize publicly as well. And it's actually worked out well. And I would say that he actually has another thing that he does, maybe we'll call this, I don't know if it's trifecta, a fourfecta, whatever, right? Quadfecta. But I like what he does around the day, I think it's a daily top five. So basically you just talk about what you're working on, but at the end of it, you talk about what trends are interesting to you.

• 16:46Speaker 00

  So it was like 10, 15 years ago when he noticed that a lot of people kept talking about machine learning and deep learning. And at that point, he knew that they had to get into AI and that's how they're able to do that. And so we have a function of that. But Brian Halligan from former HubSpot CEO, he said, despite Jensen's astronomical success, I don't see a lot of CEOs borrowing his plays. So specifically the 60 direct reports, no one on ones and criticize publicly trifecta.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it also varies per company and I'm not saying that's the right way or wrong way. I think you just gotta find your own style.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  And I'll give you another example. When I met up with my buddy, as I mentioned, he works for a Fortune 100 company. They do over a hundred billion a year in revenue, a hundred billion. He's not a C level. He's not the layer below. He's the layer below that. So when you have a hundred plus billion in revenue.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  When you're two levels lower than the CEO, that's a lot of people. Right? He interacts with the CEO and the CEO interacts with a lot of people on his level. And it may not be a direct report, but he's interacting with people and sending reports to CEO and helping with projects and other people are. That's a really hands-on CEO. And I know for a fact. Even though he doesn't, he may not have 60 direct reports, I don't know what the number is. He's interacting and reporting with probably a hundred to 200 people in his organization at any time. And I'm like, that's hardcore.

• 18:16Speaker 00

  You mean the CEO?

• 18:17Speaker 01

  The CEO is.

• 18:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  Right? And I'm not saying that's the right way to run things or not run things. But even in that organization, I think they should cut 50% of their staff.

• 18:26Speaker 00

  I think there's a lot to learn from that because Steve Jobs from Apple had the top 100. Usually you're gonna have a top 100 to 200 people that you go to. I'm sure you have like a top 50 to 100 people that you constantly go to, right?

• 18:36Speaker 01

  Not, not, nor near 100, but we're also not as big where.

• 18:39Speaker 00

  Okay, there's a top 50. Top 25?

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Top like 30.

• 18:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, but these are the people you know you can count on, right?

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 18:47Speaker 00

  And then some people cycle out of your favor sometimes too, if you're not getting things quickly enough, right?

• 18:52Speaker 01

  Yes, and percentage wise, I probably interact with my more, I have more top people than like Apple. Because if you look at 30 people, I don't have the employee base that they have. While with Apple, they may have, I don't know, 50, 100,000 employees. So top 100 is a very tiny percentage. And then if you look at organizations your size, you're interacting with almost everyone.

• 19:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Right? So you're even better than me.

• 19:17Speaker 00

  No, I'm not actually. It's like there's. Probably, I don't know, 10 that I go to. Oh, okay. Yeah, but what I would say is, um, it goes back to Dunbar's number again. So Steve Jobs top 100, right? Jensen has 60, you have 50, it's usually like, it's 150, below 150 is the number. The guy you just mentioned, it's like 150, 200 people or whatever, right? Yeah. Um, and going back to your point too, um, when you think about, when you think about Jensen's, oh, Elon's style, right? So I, we ran, we did like a, a planning session earlier this week. This is the first time I ever ran the Elon algorithm. So just to reinforce, it's uh, QDSSA, Qdessa, right? So whenever you have a, a problem in your company, you question, then you delete, then you simplify, then you speed up, and then you automate, right? Yeah.

• 20:01Speaker 00

  We tried it, cause the question I asked people was like, hey, what's one, one stupid thing you think we're doing as a company right now? Right? And people, these are all the things people are questioning. And so we started methodically going down these things and oh my God, we started deleting so much, we started simplifying so much. We didn't even think about speeding up or automating yet. Because a lot of people today, they're like, oh, AI, I want to automate everything, right? But I'm telling you, like, love or hate Elon, this algorithm does a good job. Am I saying all the things we're talking about? Yeah. How you do it, how I do it is the right way? We're just saying, no, this is just what works for us and it's worth experimenting with things. Yes.